1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:05,059 --> 00:00:09,260 Speaker 2: Today's episode brings a powerful lens to a struggle many 3 00:00:09,300 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 2: of us don't even realize we have. Emotional hoarding. We 4 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: joke about emotional baggage, but most of us are carrying 5 00:00:16,380 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 2: far more than a suitcase. We're holding closets full of 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 2: unprocessed feelings like worry, pain, regret, false guilt, anger, and shame. 7 00:00:25,100 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 3: Our guest, Moody Publishers Release, offers a gentle, insightful. 8 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,250 Speaker 2: biblical way to recognize the emotional clutter weighing us down 9 00:00:33,470 --> 00:00:37,030 Speaker 2: and step into the freedom Christ provides. This is a 10 00:00:37,070 --> 00:00:40,309 Speaker 2: conversation that will help you name what's been holding you 11 00:00:40,350 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: back and learn how to release it for good. Welcome 12 00:00:42,780 --> 00:00:45,860 Speaker 2: back to your Hope-Filled Perspective with Dr. Michelle Bankson, where 13 00:00:45,900 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 2: it's always our goal to restore hope, renew minds, and 14 00:00:48,900 --> 00:00:53,169 Speaker 2: empower listeners to live in your God-given identity. Thank you 15 00:00:53,270 --> 00:00:55,230 Speaker 2: for choosing to spend a few minutes of your week 16 00:00:55,270 --> 00:00:58,350 Speaker 2: with us. I don't think you'll find it wasted because 17 00:00:58,430 --> 00:01:01,710 Speaker 2: today we're going to be talking about how to recognize 18 00:01:01,730 --> 00:01:05,860 Speaker 2: hidden emotional clutter that you don't even know you were carrying. 19 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: We will dive into this conversation right after this brief 20 00:01:09,380 --> 00:01:16,180 Speaker 2: word from our sponsor. In this episode of Your Hope-Filled Perspective, 21 00:01:16,220 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: we're gonna be talking about how to recognize hidden emotional 22 00:01:19,510 --> 00:01:22,229 Speaker 2: clutter that you didn't even know you were carrying. Today, 23 00:01:22,250 --> 00:01:25,270 Speaker 2: I have the joy of welcoming back Lori Davies, author 24 00:01:25,370 --> 00:01:27,940 Speaker 2: of the book, Emotional Hoarding, Letting. 25 00:01:27,660 --> 00:01:29,740 Speaker 3: Go of the Stuff That Keeps You Stuck. 26 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,220 Speaker 2: Lori has a remarkable gift for putting words to the 27 00:01:32,300 --> 00:01:36,610 Speaker 2: emotional clutter so many of us carry. Things like worry, regret, pride, 28 00:01:36,670 --> 00:01:40,190 Speaker 2: or bitterness that quietly take up space in our hearts 29 00:01:40,450 --> 00:01:44,130 Speaker 2: and interfere with the freedom God desires for us. In 30 00:01:44,170 --> 00:01:47,730 Speaker 2: her book, she shines a compassionate, biblically grounded light on 31 00:01:47,750 --> 00:01:50,820 Speaker 2: the hidden burdens we tend to collect. She shows us 32 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: how scripture invites us to release them. I know you'll 33 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 2: be encouraged by the hope and clarity it brings to 34 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: this conversation. 35 00:01:57,670 --> 00:01:58,990 Speaker 3: Before we get started, I just want. 36 00:01:58,890 --> 00:02:03,190 Speaker 2: To remind you of Psalm 139 verses 23 through 24 37 00:02:03,190 --> 00:02:06,310 Speaker 2: that says, Search me, God, and know my heart. 38 00:02:06,570 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 3: See if there is. 39 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: Any offensive way in me and lead me in the 40 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 2: way everlasting. Lori Davies is a writer, national speaker, and 41 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 2: lay counselor who helps women deal with their emotional accumulation, 42 00:02:19,020 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: letting go of things like regret, grudges, false guilt, and shame. 43 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 2: And in her debut book, Emotional Hoarding, Letting Go of 44 00:02:25,820 --> 00:02:28,910 Speaker 2: the Stuff That Keeps You Stuck, released by Moody Publishers 45 00:02:29,190 --> 00:02:33,230 Speaker 2: in March, 2026. Lori's writing has been featured in Guideposts 46 00:02:33,310 --> 00:02:35,470 Speaker 2: and Proverbs 31, verse 5 app. 47 00:02:35,610 --> 00:02:37,210 Speaker 3: She also serves as lead. 48 00:02:37,070 --> 00:02:41,170 Speaker 2: Editor on Shanti Felden's Atlanta-based ministry staff. She lives in 49 00:02:41,210 --> 00:02:43,910 Speaker 2: the Phoenix area with her husband of 30 years and 50 00:02:43,950 --> 00:02:45,310 Speaker 2: their adult son. 51 00:02:45,169 --> 00:02:47,670 Speaker 3: Is fortunate enough to live by. Lori, welcome back to 52 00:02:47,710 --> 00:02:48,430 Speaker 3: the conversation. 53 00:02:48,889 --> 00:02:51,430 Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for having me. This is 54 00:02:51,510 --> 00:02:53,130 Speaker 1: a topic that I know is near and dear to 55 00:02:53,230 --> 00:02:56,370 Speaker 1: your heart too. So I've been really looking forward to 56 00:02:56,410 --> 00:02:58,330 Speaker 1: this conversation. It's my honor to be here. 57 00:02:58,820 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 3: Frequently. 58 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 2: Our ministries, our books, our resources are birthed out of 59 00:03:03,540 --> 00:03:07,109 Speaker 2: our own experiences or needs. We often write the book 60 00:03:07,230 --> 00:03:09,530 Speaker 2: that we wish that we could have read. I'd be 61 00:03:09,570 --> 00:03:11,550 Speaker 2: curious how this might have been true for you too. 62 00:03:11,570 --> 00:03:15,630 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think when we talk about emotional hoarding, 63 00:03:15,650 --> 00:03:17,910 Speaker 1: I think I even mentioned in the book, like it 64 00:03:17,930 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: took me 40 years to kind of figure out whoa, 65 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,290 Speaker 1: I'm doing this. I think most of us have a 66 00:03:23,370 --> 00:03:26,810 Speaker 1: frame of reference for hoarding. Michelle, you wrote a great 67 00:03:26,870 --> 00:03:31,030 Speaker 1: blog about physical hoarding last year. And so whether we've 68 00:03:31,070 --> 00:03:34,369 Speaker 1: seen the cable show or we know someone who kind 69 00:03:34,410 --> 00:03:36,670 Speaker 1: of has let their stuff get out of control, I 70 00:03:36,790 --> 00:03:40,350 Speaker 1: think sometimes in our hearts, we let our emo stuff 71 00:03:40,450 --> 00:03:43,730 Speaker 1: get out of control. And sometimes like the verse you 72 00:03:43,750 --> 00:03:47,690 Speaker 1: just referenced, we don't always see it. in real time. 73 00:03:47,950 --> 00:03:51,770 Speaker 1: We don't always understand the contents of our own hearts. 74 00:03:51,850 --> 00:03:55,780 Speaker 1: Jeremiah told us as much, and I love David's beautiful 75 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: prayer for the Lord to search our hearts and reveal 76 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: to us maybe things that have been kind of lurking 77 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: in crawl spaces, or maybe we willfully put them there 78 00:04:05,260 --> 00:04:07,670 Speaker 1: because we just think they're too hard to deal with. Or, 79 00:04:08,340 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: One of the things I kind of encountered in the 80 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,550 Speaker 1: writing of the book is things like maybe regret, which 81 00:04:13,610 --> 00:04:16,970 Speaker 1: you actually helped me a lot with in the book. 82 00:04:17,010 --> 00:04:18,990 Speaker 1: You're quoted in the book, and I also relied on 83 00:04:19,029 --> 00:04:20,910 Speaker 1: you for quite a bit of background. But things like 84 00:04:20,950 --> 00:04:25,770 Speaker 1: regret and shame, sometimes we think it's actually noble in 85 00:04:25,850 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: some way to hold onto those as if that's a 86 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: continued form of penance or maybe our regret will remind us, hey, 87 00:04:33,580 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: I don't want to go down that path again, so 88 00:04:35,339 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: I should hold onto this icky feeling because it'll And 89 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: that's just not it at all. Like, that's not the 90 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: freedom God wants us to walk in. 91 00:04:43,900 --> 00:04:46,350 Speaker 3: So, yeah. Let's take a step back. 92 00:04:46,790 --> 00:04:50,030 Speaker 2: And for my listeners and viewers who haven't read your 93 00:04:50,070 --> 00:04:52,409 Speaker 2: book yet, and we'll put all the information about Lori 94 00:04:52,450 --> 00:04:54,110 Speaker 2: and her book in the show notes that you can 95 00:04:54,130 --> 00:04:57,190 Speaker 2: find at drmichelleb.com. But Lori, let's take a step back 96 00:04:57,290 --> 00:05:00,050 Speaker 2: and talk about what exactly is. 97 00:04:59,430 --> 00:05:04,029 Speaker 3: Emotional hoarding and how is it different from... emotional baggage? 98 00:05:04,450 --> 00:05:07,429 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a great question. Baggage, as you mentioned, 99 00:05:07,510 --> 00:05:09,770 Speaker 1: is something we kind of joke about. We share memes 100 00:05:09,850 --> 00:05:12,710 Speaker 1: on social media about it, or we'll talk about she 101 00:05:12,750 --> 00:05:15,890 Speaker 1: has a lot of baggage, carrying baggage into a relationship. 102 00:05:15,970 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: I think that in short form can kind of reference 103 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 1: emotional issues that maybe we carry them around. I have 104 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: a luggage tag that I put on my carry-on bag 105 00:05:25,980 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: and it says, my emotional baggage won't fit into the 106 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: overhead bin. And it always gets a lot of laughs, 107 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,860 Speaker 1: but we sort of talk about that in a light 108 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,900 Speaker 1: way sometimes. My thesis in the book is that we 109 00:05:36,940 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: don't actually have an emotional baggage problem. We're emotional hoarders. 110 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: And so the distinction is physical hoarders of physical belongings 111 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,539 Speaker 1: are almost paralyzed to let their belongings go. They almost 112 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,980 Speaker 1: don't notice the physical stuff piling up. And so I 113 00:05:53,020 --> 00:05:56,849 Speaker 1: think hoarded hearts are very much like hoarded homes. And 114 00:05:56,930 --> 00:06:00,910 Speaker 1: we can let emotional kind of skyscrapers build in our hearts. 115 00:06:01,390 --> 00:06:03,190 Speaker 1: And just before we know it, we're just kind of 116 00:06:03,230 --> 00:06:07,060 Speaker 1: maneuvering our way around with all this clutter, which actually 117 00:06:07,130 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: is a lack of freedom. So I would distinguish baggage 118 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,980 Speaker 1: from hoarding in that hoarding is a much more serious 119 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:18,580 Speaker 1: accumulation of emotional stuff. And we are very hesitant to 120 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: let it go. 121 00:06:19,220 --> 00:06:25,790 Speaker 2: How can someone realize if they're unintentionally collecting emotional clutter 122 00:06:26,010 --> 00:06:27,330 Speaker 2: without even realizing it? 123 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,780 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I had the luxury in the book of 124 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,390 Speaker 1: kind of going emotion by emotion. Michelle, you know, in 125 00:06:34,589 --> 00:06:37,050 Speaker 1: real life, it's never that neat and clean. A lot 126 00:06:37,070 --> 00:06:41,210 Speaker 1: of these overlap. But I think my eyes were opened 127 00:06:41,350 --> 00:06:44,390 Speaker 1: as I looked at, let's take, for example, anger. That 128 00:06:44,450 --> 00:06:48,270 Speaker 1: was one of the really hard chapters to write because anger, 129 00:06:48,570 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: as many of your listeners and viewers will know, is 130 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,860 Speaker 1: a secondary emotion. So how do we know if we're 131 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:59,500 Speaker 1: hoarding something that's a secondary emotion? That's kind of complicated, right? So, 132 00:06:59,540 --> 00:07:02,620 Speaker 1: but with anger, you can kind of tell you're hoarding 133 00:07:02,779 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 1: anger if that's all you express. In other words, you're 134 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: not expressing and you're not in tune with other emotions 135 00:07:10,500 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: that might be driving that anger. You can also tell 136 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: you're hoarding some of these things, anger, regret, shame, Worry even, 137 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: that's one of the kind of really universal ones that 138 00:07:21,050 --> 00:07:24,370 Speaker 1: I covered. If you're, it comes out in our physical bodies. 139 00:07:24,890 --> 00:07:28,470 Speaker 1: So a lot of times there's, and there's overlap among these. 140 00:07:28,610 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: A lot of times there's lack of sleep. Your appetite 141 00:07:31,780 --> 00:07:34,060 Speaker 1: is wonky one way or the other. You're overeating or 142 00:07:34,140 --> 00:07:39,060 Speaker 1: undereating or something's wonky with your appetite or digestion. All 143 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,900 Speaker 1: these kinds of emotions that God, he doesn't want us 144 00:07:41,940 --> 00:07:43,980 Speaker 1: to haul all of these out to the dumpster. But 145 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: I do think he wants us to look at them, 146 00:07:46,340 --> 00:07:50,340 Speaker 1: acknowledge them, process them, and see kind of what he's 147 00:07:50,420 --> 00:07:52,980 Speaker 1: showing us through them. If we leave all of that 148 00:07:53,180 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: undealt with, it's going to come out in our physical bodies, 149 00:07:57,690 --> 00:08:02,250 Speaker 1: in our relationships with others, and most primarily with some 150 00:08:02,290 --> 00:08:04,950 Speaker 1: of the really serious ones like bitterness and pride. It's 151 00:08:04,970 --> 00:08:07,590 Speaker 1: going to come out in our relationship with God. Yeah. 152 00:08:07,850 --> 00:08:13,140 Speaker 1: And so if we're feeling stress in our physical bodies, 153 00:08:13,460 --> 00:08:16,380 Speaker 1: in our spiritual walk with the Lord, in our relationships 154 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: with others, that might be a clue that it's time 155 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: to kind of get inside there and take a look at, man, 156 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,670 Speaker 1: am I holding on to stuff that's keeping me stuck? 157 00:08:25,010 --> 00:08:25,270 Speaker 3: Yeah. 158 00:08:25,670 --> 00:08:29,170 Speaker 2: In your book, you cover 10 different emotions that hurt 159 00:08:29,270 --> 00:08:31,990 Speaker 2: us if we hoard them. But I'd be really curious, 160 00:08:32,030 --> 00:08:34,070 Speaker 2: and I know my listeners would too, what was the 161 00:08:34,110 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 2: hardest emotion for you to write about and why? 162 00:08:37,530 --> 00:08:41,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, no doubt it was worthlessness, which is later 163 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: in the book. I think it's chapter 10. The why 164 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,780 Speaker 1: answer is that's been my core wound. I struggled most 165 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,079 Speaker 1: of my life with worthlessness. And the Lord is, I 166 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,220 Speaker 1: think it's a continuum, right? Like the Lord is continuing 167 00:08:57,340 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: to set me free from that. But I just, I 168 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,260 Speaker 1: knew that chapter belonged in the book and I dreaded 169 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: writing it because I knew I was going to have 170 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,329 Speaker 1: to get in my own closets and my own emotional floorboards. 171 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,870 Speaker 1: So literally I have a friend who has a lake 172 00:09:11,910 --> 00:09:14,770 Speaker 1: house in Georgia and she said, come stay in my 173 00:09:14,809 --> 00:09:18,570 Speaker 1: house for a week. And I went into just total 174 00:09:18,730 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: isolation for a week and worked it out. with the Lord. 175 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: And one of the things he showed me that's just 176 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,930 Speaker 1: so beautiful, Psalm 139, you already mentioned, were fearfully and 177 00:09:30,030 --> 00:09:34,869 Speaker 1: wonderfully made. And we don't get to change that. The Lord, 178 00:09:35,070 --> 00:09:36,949 Speaker 1: it would be like, Michelle, if somebody came to you, 179 00:09:37,390 --> 00:09:40,550 Speaker 1: you're highly educated. You have many clinical hours in. It 180 00:09:40,790 --> 00:09:42,350 Speaker 1: would be like if someone came to you and said, 181 00:09:42,470 --> 00:09:45,750 Speaker 1: I get all of that, but I think I should 182 00:09:45,790 --> 00:09:48,959 Speaker 1: pay you $ 5 an hour. I think that's what your 183 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,860 Speaker 1: time is worth to me. That would be preposterous. You 184 00:09:51,900 --> 00:09:56,910 Speaker 1: would never accept that. You've spent years understanding neuropsychology and 185 00:09:57,410 --> 00:09:59,370 Speaker 1: you'd probably be gracious about it, but you'd be like that. 186 00:10:00,100 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: don't get to set my worth. And yet don't we 187 00:10:03,100 --> 00:10:06,980 Speaker 1: do that with God? He made a masterpiece and we 188 00:10:07,020 --> 00:10:10,780 Speaker 1: tell him, yeah, I think I'm worth five bucks. It's preposterous. 189 00:10:11,140 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: And so I think kind of working through that And 190 00:10:14,950 --> 00:10:17,470 Speaker 1: to be vulnerable, I continue to work through that. It 191 00:10:17,490 --> 00:10:20,090 Speaker 1: made it a really hard chapter to write. There were 192 00:10:20,110 --> 00:10:21,469 Speaker 1: a lot of tears on the floor. 193 00:10:21,890 --> 00:10:24,670 Speaker 2: Well, and if there's anything I've learned through all the 194 00:10:24,710 --> 00:10:28,150 Speaker 2: books I've written is that we write about things that 195 00:10:28,190 --> 00:10:31,010 Speaker 2: the Lord has shown us and grown us in, but 196 00:10:31,090 --> 00:10:32,350 Speaker 2: it's never a one and done. 197 00:10:32,710 --> 00:10:35,250 Speaker 3: We continue to have to live out our message. 198 00:10:35,390 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 2: Which means we'll continue to have experiences to put into 199 00:10:38,780 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 2: practice what we've suggested that others do. 200 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,220 Speaker 1: Yeah, and won't the enemy test us on that too? 201 00:10:44,580 --> 00:10:45,540 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 202 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,540 Speaker 1: All he has is our history. So all he can 203 00:10:48,730 --> 00:10:51,990 Speaker 1: come at us with is our past and our pain 204 00:10:52,050 --> 00:10:54,650 Speaker 1: points that he knows about. So yeah, there's a lot 205 00:10:54,670 --> 00:10:56,650 Speaker 1: of freedom in the words you spoke. I think any 206 00:10:56,690 --> 00:10:59,910 Speaker 1: of us who want to put forth that we're 100% healed, 207 00:11:00,050 --> 00:11:02,830 Speaker 1: that's crazy. I mean, we'll all be looking at each 208 00:11:02,890 --> 00:11:06,730 Speaker 1: other in heaven, 100% healed. And until then, aren't we 209 00:11:06,790 --> 00:11:10,210 Speaker 1: glad for the grace of God and the tenderness of 210 00:11:10,450 --> 00:11:11,170 Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit? 211 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:12,500 Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely. 212 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,380 Speaker 2: Friends, we're going to take a short break for this 213 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 2: brief word from our sponsor, but I want you to 214 00:11:16,380 --> 00:11:18,839 Speaker 2: stick with us to hear Lori share more about how 215 00:11:18,860 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 2: to recognize hidden emotional clutter you didn't know. 216 00:11:22,140 --> 00:11:23,809 Speaker 3: You were carrying. We'll be right back. 217 00:11:28,210 --> 00:11:31,430 Speaker 2: The first emotion that you tackle about in the book 218 00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:34,890 Speaker 2: is worry. Why did you lead with worry and what 219 00:11:34,929 --> 00:11:35,910 Speaker 2: did you learn about it? 220 00:11:36,420 --> 00:11:39,059 Speaker 1: That's a great question. Why did I lead with worry? 221 00:11:39,250 --> 00:11:42,930 Speaker 1: I led with worry because I think at some level 222 00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:48,350 Speaker 1: that's pretty universal. And it also felt sort of like 223 00:11:48,450 --> 00:11:51,929 Speaker 1: one we could address quickly. I wanted my readers to 224 00:11:52,309 --> 00:11:55,090 Speaker 1: understand that because if you're at a place where you're like, oh, 225 00:11:55,230 --> 00:11:57,709 Speaker 1: I might be an emotional hoarder, maybe you even need 226 00:11:57,770 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: an emotional 911. You want to know you can make progress. 227 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,740 Speaker 1: And I feel like with worry, that possibility exists. Tell 228 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: a funny story at the beginning of the chapter about 229 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 1: my husband and I are tent campers. And one time 230 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,980 Speaker 1: we were out at this remote campsite in Arkansas and 231 00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:16,660 Speaker 1: I had to get up and go to the bathroom 232 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:17,980 Speaker 1: in the middle of the night. So I had three 233 00:12:18,020 --> 00:12:20,339 Speaker 1: pretty terrible options, right? Like go in the woods. That 234 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,380 Speaker 1: wasn't going to happen. Hold it all night, which isn't 235 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,179 Speaker 1: a terrific option or walk maybe an eighth of a 236 00:12:26,230 --> 00:12:29,950 Speaker 1: mile to the camp latrine. And while I was in there, 237 00:12:30,090 --> 00:12:34,150 Speaker 1: I could hear the like nails of a critter coming. 238 00:12:34,750 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: So I'm undisposed, situated in stall number one, and this 239 00:12:39,860 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: armadillo sticks its nasty beady eyes, pink fleshy nose, dirty nails. 240 00:12:46,940 --> 00:12:49,660 Speaker 1: So I'm staring this thing down and I go, my 241 00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:54,110 Speaker 1: screen takes Arkansas to like DEFCON 3 and I'm All 242 00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:57,670 Speaker 1: of a sudden I feel this worry just surge. Like 243 00:12:57,850 --> 00:13:01,670 Speaker 1: I have myself dying of leprosy, which they do carry leprosy. 244 00:13:01,790 --> 00:13:04,460 Speaker 1: When was my last tetanus shot? Is this thing staring 245 00:13:04,510 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: at me while I'm naked? All ridiculous things. And of 246 00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:10,740 Speaker 1: course I made it out of the bathroom just fine 247 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: and back to the tent just fine. And we usually, 248 00:13:14,940 --> 00:13:17,809 Speaker 1: stats are pretty compelling that most of the things we 249 00:13:17,850 --> 00:13:21,690 Speaker 1: worry about never materialize or if they do, they're of 250 00:13:21,790 --> 00:13:25,809 Speaker 1: far less consequence. than what we're worried about. So I 251 00:13:25,850 --> 00:13:27,670 Speaker 1: wanted to tackle worry because I could have a little 252 00:13:27,710 --> 00:13:31,010 Speaker 1: fun with it. And because I think we all experience it. 253 00:13:31,230 --> 00:13:36,750 Speaker 1: And also because God never promised us a worry-free life. However, 254 00:13:37,550 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: there is a path in his word that will lead 255 00:13:40,100 --> 00:13:42,660 Speaker 1: us to a life that's free of worry. 256 00:13:42,980 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 4: Yeah. 257 00:13:43,660 --> 00:13:44,100 Speaker 3: Yeah. 258 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: So that was exciting. 259 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 2: I spent an entire book writing about worry, fear, and anxiety. 260 00:13:49,420 --> 00:13:49,599 Speaker 1: Yep. 261 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,689 Speaker 2: And it is something that we have to come back 262 00:13:51,730 --> 00:13:53,990 Speaker 2: to and come back to and come back to because 263 00:13:54,030 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 2: the enemy knows what those circumstances are that's going to 264 00:13:56,900 --> 00:13:59,339 Speaker 2: incite worry. And by the way, in the state of Texas, 265 00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:02,050 Speaker 2: our state animal is the armadillo and you're not allowed 266 00:14:02,090 --> 00:14:02,530 Speaker 2: to kill them. 267 00:14:02,940 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 3: So there's that. 268 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,179 Speaker 1: Well, it was such a bright moonlit night that I 269 00:14:07,220 --> 00:14:09,190 Speaker 1: didn't even take my flashlight to the bathroom with me. 270 00:14:09,230 --> 00:14:11,069 Speaker 1: So I had nothing to like beat it off with. 271 00:14:11,090 --> 00:14:13,150 Speaker 1: So I guess there was no danger of me causing 272 00:14:13,230 --> 00:14:15,610 Speaker 1: harm to an animal. But wow, I didn't know that. 273 00:14:15,630 --> 00:14:17,630 Speaker 1: I lived in Texas for seven years. I had no 274 00:14:17,690 --> 00:14:18,990 Speaker 1: idea that was the state animal. 275 00:14:19,010 --> 00:14:19,510 Speaker 3: Yeah. 276 00:14:19,830 --> 00:14:20,070 Speaker 1: Wow. 277 00:14:20,130 --> 00:14:23,490 Speaker 3: Anyway, more about that some other time. But later in 278 00:14:23,530 --> 00:14:25,230 Speaker 3: the book, you tackled pride. 279 00:14:25,250 --> 00:14:25,330 Speaker 4: Yeah. 280 00:14:25,770 --> 00:14:28,970 Speaker 2: What was the most surprising thing you discovered about pride? 281 00:14:29,850 --> 00:14:32,650 Speaker 1: Oh gosh. Well, pride is another hard one. I don't 282 00:14:32,670 --> 00:14:34,830 Speaker 1: think anyone wakes up in the morning, Michelle, and says, wow, 283 00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:36,830 Speaker 1: I hope I get a handle on my pride today. 284 00:14:36,850 --> 00:14:39,230 Speaker 1: I put it later in the book because I felt 285 00:14:39,250 --> 00:14:41,359 Speaker 1: like by then I'd earned the right to maybe poke 286 00:14:41,780 --> 00:14:44,940 Speaker 1: in that spot a little bit. But I think about pride. 287 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,580 Speaker 1: One of the things that I learned is that we 288 00:14:49,060 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: all contend with it and it leads to so many 289 00:14:53,380 --> 00:14:57,180 Speaker 1: of the other hard emotions that we can end up hoarding. 290 00:14:57,420 --> 00:14:59,990 Speaker 1: And so it's kind of like a gateway. It's not 291 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,510 Speaker 1: something that we generally walk through life hoping that God 292 00:15:03,530 --> 00:15:05,989 Speaker 1: will break down because what does that require? It requires 293 00:15:06,030 --> 00:15:09,150 Speaker 1: something really hard, the way out of pride. And I 294 00:15:09,610 --> 00:15:13,070 Speaker 1: kind of delve into this a little more in the chapter, 295 00:15:13,130 --> 00:15:15,270 Speaker 1: but in short form, the way out of pride is 296 00:15:15,310 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: to beg God to humble us. And That's a scary 297 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: thing to do. But I think the thing that was 298 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,610 Speaker 1: cool that I just found so much freedom in is 299 00:15:24,660 --> 00:15:28,910 Speaker 1: that God says He gives grace to the humble. Some 300 00:15:28,950 --> 00:15:32,570 Speaker 1: translations say He gives favor to the humble. So if 301 00:15:32,610 --> 00:15:35,970 Speaker 1: we really stop and let Him do His work and 302 00:15:36,010 --> 00:15:38,130 Speaker 1: let Him do His math in the only way He 303 00:15:38,170 --> 00:15:41,270 Speaker 1: can do it, the thing that feels most like subtraction, 304 00:15:41,690 --> 00:15:45,230 Speaker 1: humble me, like nobody gives up and prays that, actually 305 00:15:45,270 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: becomes addition. when we trust it into God's hands. I 306 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: think that's just a beautiful thing. 307 00:15:51,540 --> 00:15:55,030 Speaker 2: It is a beautiful thing that you've discovered. Overall, what 308 00:15:55,110 --> 00:15:58,870 Speaker 2: finding or truth surprised you the most in researching? 309 00:15:59,190 --> 00:16:03,930 Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's a chapter on bitterness. And I talk 310 00:16:03,980 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: a lot about grudge holding. And that's one of the 311 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: that's one of the other things about emotional hoarding that 312 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,100 Speaker 1: I sort of encountered when I was researching this, we 313 00:16:13,260 --> 00:16:16,700 Speaker 1: use the language of accumulation around a lot of these things. 314 00:16:16,740 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: So for example, we hold onto grudges, right? Or we 315 00:16:20,300 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: live buried under a mountain of regret. But what surprised 316 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: me in the bitterness chapter, which is kind of the 317 00:16:27,300 --> 00:16:31,370 Speaker 1: grudge holding thing is I looked, I found a researcher 318 00:16:31,430 --> 00:16:35,410 Speaker 1: has done some work into this and they, On average, 319 00:16:35,930 --> 00:16:39,170 Speaker 1: each of us, so your listeners right now and your 320 00:16:39,190 --> 00:16:43,980 Speaker 1: viewers are holding seven grudges. And that shocked me. 321 00:16:44,740 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 3: I'm actually surprised it's that low. 322 00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:47,740 Speaker 1: You think it's low? 323 00:16:47,940 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 4: Yeah. 324 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,220 Speaker 1: Oh, okay. I think some people think it's high. It's 325 00:16:51,260 --> 00:16:55,100 Speaker 1: not something we want to necessarily tangle with in ourselves. Yeah. 326 00:16:55,300 --> 00:16:58,250 Speaker 1: But I started counting up a few and man, I was... 327 00:16:58,770 --> 00:17:02,630 Speaker 1: I was convicted. I was repentant. And if you're listening 328 00:17:02,750 --> 00:17:05,310 Speaker 1: and you think, well, I don't really have any grudges. 329 00:17:05,550 --> 00:17:08,010 Speaker 1: The bad news is your husband's probably holding 14 or 330 00:17:08,330 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: your sister or your best friend statistically. So I was 331 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,220 Speaker 1: surprised by that statistic. You being in the world you're in, 332 00:17:15,540 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: you probably have had to help people kind of navigate 333 00:17:19,619 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: really the damage that grudges do on their lives. So 334 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,190 Speaker 1: I think you've probably... encountered it in a different way. 335 00:17:27,410 --> 00:17:29,030 Speaker 1: But yeah, that was surprising to me. 336 00:17:29,230 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: From your perspective, why do you think believers, even those 337 00:17:33,180 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 2: who love God deeply, why do they struggle to let 338 00:17:36,740 --> 00:17:39,740 Speaker 2: go of emotions like worry, regret, bitterness? 339 00:17:40,060 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 3: We know they're not good. We know they don't even 340 00:17:42,340 --> 00:17:42,940 Speaker 3: feel good. 341 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,300 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, if we go back to bitterness, I 342 00:17:46,340 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: think if we're being honest, sometimes we like the way 343 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,290 Speaker 1: the grudge feels in our hands. It gives us that 344 00:17:51,330 --> 00:17:54,030 Speaker 1: little feeling of, I'm not going to let them off 345 00:17:54,070 --> 00:17:57,430 Speaker 1: the hook. I think with other emotions, as I mentioned, 346 00:17:57,609 --> 00:18:00,630 Speaker 1: maybe about shame and regret, sometimes we don't think we 347 00:18:00,790 --> 00:18:03,939 Speaker 1: should let them go. And I think maybe with worry, 348 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,360 Speaker 1: I hit fear in the book, which often comes out 349 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: as control. I think with those, sometimes we just think 350 00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:14,899 Speaker 1: that's how we are. And what a defeating lie to believe, right? 351 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,300 Speaker 1: And what a defeating imprint to leave on our children. 352 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,290 Speaker 1: I'm just from a family of warriors. What does that 353 00:18:21,330 --> 00:18:23,310 Speaker 1: do to our kids when we say that? So I 354 00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:25,730 Speaker 1: think it can be a variety of reasons. It could 355 00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:29,070 Speaker 1: be pride. I think sometimes we just, either we think 356 00:18:29,109 --> 00:18:32,909 Speaker 1: there's something noble about hanging on or in our pride, 357 00:18:33,050 --> 00:18:36,460 Speaker 1: we don't want to let go. What do you think 358 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: about that? Let me flip that. I'd love to hear 359 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: your answer. 360 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 3: I think part of it is fear. 361 00:18:41,300 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. 362 00:18:41,859 --> 00:18:46,100 Speaker 2: And I think part of it related to fear is we, 363 00:18:46,220 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 2: by our human nature, want to be in control. 364 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:49,460 Speaker 1: Yeah. 365 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 2: So if we let go of those emotions, we're letting 366 00:18:54,460 --> 00:18:57,030 Speaker 2: someone off the hook. And then we feel like we're 367 00:18:57,070 --> 00:18:57,889 Speaker 2: not in control of. 368 00:18:57,869 --> 00:18:58,850 Speaker 3: That situation anymore. 369 00:18:59,310 --> 00:18:59,609 Speaker 1: Yeah. 370 00:19:00,210 --> 00:19:00,430 Speaker 4: Yeah. 371 00:19:00,830 --> 00:19:04,310 Speaker 2: Lori, how does scripture address emotional hoarding? And where do 372 00:19:04,330 --> 00:19:07,290 Speaker 2: you see God inviting us in to release what weighs 373 00:19:07,390 --> 00:19:07,730 Speaker 2: us down? 374 00:19:08,210 --> 00:19:12,369 Speaker 1: Well, the first scripture that comes to mind is Galatians 5.1, right? 375 00:19:12,410 --> 00:19:16,250 Speaker 1: It is for freedom that Christ set us free. So 376 00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:19,550 Speaker 1: why would we go back to wearing a yoke of slavery? 377 00:19:20,210 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: So I think freedom is of high value to the Lord. 378 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: It's why he came to set the captives free, to 379 00:19:28,020 --> 00:19:30,940 Speaker 1: set the prisoners free. And so if that's the whole 380 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:35,020 Speaker 1: reason he came... Certainly he wants us to be free 381 00:19:35,380 --> 00:19:37,860 Speaker 1: in the way we live, in the way we carry 382 00:19:38,020 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: out his calling on our lives, and in the way 383 00:19:40,580 --> 00:19:44,570 Speaker 1: we negotiate things on the inside. He lives in our heart. 384 00:19:44,850 --> 00:19:48,370 Speaker 1: So let's fix it up nice for him. Let's give 385 00:19:48,410 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 1: him room to move and direct us. And if I'm living, 386 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:59,460 Speaker 1: holding on tightly to grudges and anger and regret and 387 00:19:59,619 --> 00:20:03,700 Speaker 1: shame and worthlessness, then my hands aren't open to be 388 00:20:03,740 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: able to receive the really good assignments. he wants to 389 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,300 Speaker 1: send me on. And that's true for every listener in 390 00:20:10,340 --> 00:20:12,380 Speaker 1: your audience today. So true. 391 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 2: Friends, we're going to take a real short break for 392 00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 2: a brief word from our sponsor, but stick with us 393 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,830 Speaker 2: because when we come back, as we wrap up the episode, 394 00:20:18,869 --> 00:20:20,450 Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to ask Lori to share a 395 00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:23,730 Speaker 2: hope-filled perspective with you about how to recognize these hidden 396 00:20:23,770 --> 00:20:26,990 Speaker 2: emotional areas of clutter you didn't know you were carrying. 397 00:20:27,109 --> 00:20:27,670 Speaker 3: We'll be right back. 398 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 2: Laurie, how can someone begin the process of identifying and 399 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,430 Speaker 2: naming these emotions that we've stuffed or ignored for years? 400 00:20:40,430 --> 00:20:42,850 Speaker 1: Well, I think for some of us, it certainly has 401 00:20:42,869 --> 00:20:45,590 Speaker 1: been true for me. I've been a women's ministry director 402 00:20:45,630 --> 00:20:48,950 Speaker 1: and I'm a lay counselor and you see clients. You've 403 00:20:48,970 --> 00:20:51,190 Speaker 1: seen so many clients over the years, probably thousands. I 404 00:20:51,369 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: think it takes a lot of courage. I think it 405 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,820 Speaker 1: takes courage to say, I'm going to aim the spotlight 406 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: in here and let the Lord... start maybe tearing down 407 00:21:02,580 --> 00:21:06,370 Speaker 1: some stacks and stockpiles that I've grown very comfortable with 408 00:21:06,619 --> 00:21:08,730 Speaker 1: in the surroundings of my own heart. So I think 409 00:21:08,810 --> 00:21:12,210 Speaker 1: courage would be a good first step. And then just 410 00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: being honest. I think we hit a point in our 411 00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:19,459 Speaker 1: lives where We don't have to put up these pretenses 412 00:21:19,619 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: and be Instagram perfect for anyone. The Lord wants our 413 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: whole heart. He just wants us to be honest with them. 414 00:21:26,619 --> 00:21:29,420 Speaker 1: And so I would say courage and honesty would be 415 00:21:29,580 --> 00:21:32,990 Speaker 1: good places to start. It can be a fearsome thing 416 00:21:33,310 --> 00:21:36,310 Speaker 1: to tackle things that we've stuffed for a really long time. 417 00:21:36,369 --> 00:21:38,750 Speaker 1: But I think, I love this question, Michelle, because I 418 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,700 Speaker 1: think the hope-filled perspective in that is that when we 419 00:21:42,859 --> 00:21:46,420 Speaker 1: start to face the things that are keeping us stuck, 420 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,540 Speaker 1: we'll taste a freedom that we won't want to turn 421 00:21:49,580 --> 00:21:53,070 Speaker 1: back from. It is a game changer, a life changer, 422 00:21:53,490 --> 00:21:56,649 Speaker 1: and we won't want to go back to the chains 423 00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:59,270 Speaker 1: we once wore. They just won't fit anymore. 424 00:21:59,990 --> 00:22:02,010 Speaker 3: And thank the Lord for that. 425 00:22:02,470 --> 00:22:02,750 Speaker 1: Yeah. 426 00:22:03,230 --> 00:22:05,270 Speaker 2: Do you think it's possible to let go of old 427 00:22:05,310 --> 00:22:09,109 Speaker 2: regrets without pretending that the past didn't happen? 428 00:22:09,550 --> 00:22:12,050 Speaker 1: Do I think it's possible to let go of old 429 00:22:12,130 --> 00:22:17,670 Speaker 1: regrets without pretending that? Yeah, I think actually acknowledging that 430 00:22:17,730 --> 00:22:21,490 Speaker 1: the past did happen is a good. I think that's 431 00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:24,510 Speaker 1: the thing that drives us to grace. Regret is a 432 00:22:24,550 --> 00:22:28,699 Speaker 1: tricky one. And you actually provided some great background in 433 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,550 Speaker 1: this for me. There's a really helpful step-by-step how to... 434 00:22:33,950 --> 00:22:38,110 Speaker 1: kind of maneuver regret, if regret of inaction is what 435 00:22:38,150 --> 00:22:40,270 Speaker 1: it's called. But with regret, there's kind of a fork 436 00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:43,350 Speaker 1: in the road. Did I sin or did I not sin? 437 00:22:43,690 --> 00:22:46,570 Speaker 1: And so if the answer is yes, I sinned, there's 438 00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:49,929 Speaker 1: a scriptural passage written by Paul, the one who most 439 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: needed to be free from regret, that is a direct 440 00:22:53,490 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: lifeline away from regret. But man, those regrets of inaction, 441 00:22:57,859 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: loved your quote in the book about it's like fighting 442 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,780 Speaker 1: a ghost. because it's the thing you didn't do. It's 443 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: the thing that lacks resolution. And I think the way 444 00:23:07,619 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: out of those is just realizing grace is sufficient for us. 445 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: Grace fills all those gaps where we wish we would 446 00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:20,210 Speaker 1: have gone left instead of right or done X instead 447 00:23:20,270 --> 00:23:23,690 Speaker 1: of Z, Y. So yeah, I think looking at a 448 00:23:23,710 --> 00:23:26,790 Speaker 1: few regrets propped up in the corner is the thing 449 00:23:26,830 --> 00:23:28,510 Speaker 1: that drives me straight to grace. 450 00:23:29,180 --> 00:23:34,189 Speaker 2: Yeah, because the enemy will use guilt, false guilt and 451 00:23:34,290 --> 00:23:40,090 Speaker 2: regret to create a cloak of shame. And what I 452 00:23:40,270 --> 00:23:44,250 Speaker 2: so appreciate about our Heavenly Father is that He says 453 00:23:44,330 --> 00:23:47,820 Speaker 2: in Scripture, there is therefore now no condemnation for those 454 00:23:47,859 --> 00:23:50,980 Speaker 2: who are in Christ Jesus. There's no room for shame. 455 00:23:51,140 --> 00:23:55,939 Speaker 2: There is plenty of room for conviction. And conviction is 456 00:23:56,220 --> 00:24:00,490 Speaker 2: offered to us as a gift to restore our relationship 457 00:24:00,570 --> 00:24:02,629 Speaker 2: with God. We don't have to live under the shame. 458 00:24:02,810 --> 00:24:06,710 Speaker 2: He gives us the gift of confession and repentance so 459 00:24:06,730 --> 00:24:08,590 Speaker 2: that we can close the door on that. And when 460 00:24:08,609 --> 00:24:10,889 Speaker 2: the enemy comes a knocking again and says, oh, but 461 00:24:10,930 --> 00:24:14,090 Speaker 2: remember what you did. We go, nope, I've already confessed it. 462 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,300 Speaker 2: I've repented of it. I have received his forgiveness. And 463 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,980 Speaker 2: like you started off early in this episode, Lori, it 464 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 2: is finished because of Christ's finished work on the cross. 465 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,620 Speaker 1: That's a good word, Michelle. The enemy wants to keep 466 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,420 Speaker 1: us trapped in the past. And if so, if we 467 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,389 Speaker 1: feel that's another way, I think we can recognize emotional hoarding. 468 00:24:32,450 --> 00:24:35,409 Speaker 1: If we're constantly living back there, looking through the little 469 00:24:35,890 --> 00:24:39,350 Speaker 1: rear view mirror instead of through the windshield and moving 470 00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:42,510 Speaker 1: forward in our lives, that's a real clue that there 471 00:24:42,550 --> 00:24:45,489 Speaker 1: may be some emotional hoarding going on. In hearing you 472 00:24:45,510 --> 00:24:47,790 Speaker 1: talk just then, I was thinking about David. He had 473 00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:51,590 Speaker 1: so many flaws. He engaged in criminal behavior, had a 474 00:24:51,609 --> 00:24:55,670 Speaker 1: guy murdered, his bad dad. What made him a man 475 00:24:55,730 --> 00:25:00,610 Speaker 1: after God's own heart? His repentance. was total. And so 476 00:25:00,670 --> 00:25:03,810 Speaker 1: I think that conviction you're talking about, that's what brings 477 00:25:03,869 --> 00:25:06,429 Speaker 1: us to the Lord, not pushes us away from him. 478 00:25:06,859 --> 00:25:09,980 Speaker 2: And I'm so grateful that he offers that as a gift. 479 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 2: Think about it in terms of being a parent myself. 480 00:25:13,420 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 2: When my kids come to me and they say, I'm 481 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:20,260 Speaker 2: really sorry, or whatever, I want to forgive them. I 482 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:25,209 Speaker 2: want to restore relationships. So I'm going to forgive. And 483 00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:28,050 Speaker 2: that if I want to do that as a mom, 484 00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:32,430 Speaker 2: I just think how much more does God desire for 485 00:25:32,450 --> 00:25:34,369 Speaker 2: a restored relationship. 486 00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:34,450 Speaker 3: With his kids? 487 00:25:35,010 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful. That's good. 488 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 2: Lori, thank you for sharing your wisdom and knowledge in 489 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,959 Speaker 2: this area. Friends, I hope that today's episode has challenged 490 00:25:45,060 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 2: you to maybe open up the closet of your mind 491 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,350 Speaker 2: and heart and ask the Holy Spirit, what am I hoarding? 492 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,770 Speaker 2: What am I holding onto that doesn't serve me well? 493 00:25:55,970 --> 00:25:58,530 Speaker 2: And how can I let go of that so that 494 00:25:58,690 --> 00:26:01,730 Speaker 2: I can have true freedom in Christ? That's our desire 495 00:26:01,770 --> 00:26:04,270 Speaker 2: for you out of this episode today. There's so much 496 00:26:04,330 --> 00:26:06,250 Speaker 2: more that we could have talked about. Lori and I 497 00:26:06,310 --> 00:26:08,950 Speaker 2: probably could have had a three-hour conversation and still only 498 00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:11,820 Speaker 2: skimmed the surface. But we'll put all the information about 499 00:26:11,859 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 2: Lori and her book, Emotional Hoarding, in the show notes. 500 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,100 Speaker 2: So make sure you check it out there. I look 501 00:26:17,140 --> 00:26:20,020 Speaker 2: forward to being with you again next week for another 502 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,740 Speaker 2: episode of Your Hope-Filled Perspective. And you know, until then, 503 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,139 Speaker 2: it's always my desire for you that you have a 504 00:26:27,180 --> 00:26:27,980 Speaker 2: hope-filled week. 505 00:26:30,340 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 4: Your ragged and torn past may be the key to 506 00:26:34,660 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 4: God's future for you. We all endure trials, pain, and 507 00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:45,229 Speaker 4: hardship in this life. Too often we believe these experiences 508 00:26:45,550 --> 00:26:50,250 Speaker 4: disqualify us from being useful to God. But the truth is, 509 00:26:50,609 --> 00:26:55,650 Speaker 4: your past pain and brokenness serve as preparation for what 510 00:26:55,770 --> 00:27:00,719 Speaker 4: God wants to do in and through you. if you 511 00:27:00,740 --> 00:27:06,980 Speaker 4: will surrender to and trust him. In Sacred Scars, neuropsychologist 512 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:12,540 Speaker 4: and fellow sufferer, Dr. Michelle Bankson helps you understand the 513 00:27:12,700 --> 00:27:16,940 Speaker 4: suffering from a biblical perspective, discover how the trials of 514 00:27:16,980 --> 00:27:20,980 Speaker 4: your life serve a purpose, reflect on the healing that 515 00:27:21,060 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 4: God has accomplished, and comfort others with the comfort God 516 00:27:25,460 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 4: has given you. Just as Jesus' scars didn't disappear after 517 00:27:31,020 --> 00:27:35,300 Speaker 4: his resurrection and confirmed that he was who he said 518 00:27:35,380 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 4: he was and that he did what he said he'd do, 519 00:27:39,260 --> 00:27:44,170 Speaker 4: our emotional or physical scars tell our story and lend 520 00:27:44,270 --> 00:27:49,550 Speaker 4: credence to our testimony of God's love and power. If 521 00:27:49,590 --> 00:27:52,869 Speaker 4: you are ready to turn your past pain into present 522 00:27:52,970 --> 00:27:58,300 Speaker 4: comfort and future hope, let Dr. Bankson be your compassionate guide. 523 00:27:59,340 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 4: Jill Savage, host of the No More Perfect podcast and 524 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 4: author of No More Perfect Marriages, had this to say 525 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,340 Speaker 4: about sacred scars. While we wish for a pain-free life, 526 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,340 Speaker 4: the dark seasons are where God invites us into the 527 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 4: most growth. In the pages of this book, you will 528 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 4: come to understand how God uses pain in powerful ways. 529 00:28:24,460 --> 00:28:28,420 Speaker 4: If you're human, you need this book. Pick up a 530 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,980 Speaker 4: copy of Sacred Scars wherever books are sold and watch 531 00:28:33,070 --> 00:28:36,090 Speaker 4: God turn your pain into purpose. 532 00:28:40,250 --> 00:28:43,890 Speaker 5: Thank you for joining Dr. Bankson for your hope-filled perspective. 533 00:28:44,450 --> 00:28:48,130 Speaker 5: We hope you were encouraged by her authenticity, vulnerability, and 534 00:28:48,430 --> 00:28:52,070 Speaker 5: and biblical truths. If you enjoyed today's conversation, why don't 535 00:28:52,110 --> 00:28:55,530 Speaker 5: you take a moment right now, open up your podcast app, 536 00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:57,990 Speaker 5: and look for the subscribe button right next to our 537 00:28:58,030 --> 00:29:01,690 Speaker 5: podcast profile image. We think this podcast is best enjoyed 538 00:29:01,710 --> 00:29:04,250 Speaker 5: with friends, so tell a friend and click share in 539 00:29:04,390 --> 00:29:07,209 Speaker 5: your podcast app and send a friend our link to 540 00:29:07,250 --> 00:29:10,390 Speaker 5: share hope with them. If you have a comment, question, 541 00:29:10,670 --> 00:29:13,230 Speaker 5: or suggest a topic for a future show, reach out 542 00:29:13,310 --> 00:29:17,990 Speaker 5: to our staff at info at hopeprevails.org. For additional resources 543 00:29:18,020 --> 00:29:21,990 Speaker 5: and information about Dr. Bankson's books or free downloads, or 544 00:29:22,390 --> 00:29:25,370 Speaker 5: to contact her to speak at your next event, please 545 00:29:25,410 --> 00:29:31,570 Speaker 5: visit drmichelleb.com. Until next time, may you have a hope-filled week. 546 00:29:34,650 --> 00:29:37,030 Speaker 2: I'd like to take just a second to thank the 547 00:29:37,090 --> 00:29:39,950 Speaker 2: team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on 548 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 2: this podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.com, you'll find dozens 549 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,530 Speaker 2: of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've got shows 550 00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:50,530 Speaker 2: about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.