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Speaker 1: Life Audio. Hello, Hello, and welcome to the Confessions of

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Speaker 1: a Christian Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel.

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Speaker 1: This is your home for real stories, radical vulnerability, and

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Speaker 1: remarkable comebacks. In the end, this podcast is a place

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Speaker 1: for the desperate, the downtrodden, the destitute, and especially the drunk.

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Speaker 1: But it's also a place of hope and healing. I

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Speaker 1: know that firsthand because I'm the Christian who became an alcoholic,

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Speaker 1: not the other way around. Today I've found sobriety after

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Speaker 1: decades of struggling. But more importantly than finding sobriety, I

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Speaker 1: found Jesus. My prayer is that as I interview people

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Speaker 1: just like you and just like me, along with professionals

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Speaker 1: in the fields of trauma, faith and addiction recovery, you

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Speaker 1: will find the piece that is available to you through

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Speaker 1: Christ on the other side of whatever you're going through

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Speaker 1: and whatever addiction that might be. Because let's face it,

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Speaker 1: we're all addicted to something so welcome. Let's get radically

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Speaker 1: vulnerable as we explore what it looks like to be

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Speaker 1: on this journey of messy sanctification. We'll be right back

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Speaker 1: after this. I was talking to someone on the phone

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Speaker 1: today actually and towards the end of our conversation, I

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Speaker 1: just felt led to encourage him in a very specific way.

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Speaker 1: And so what I said is, Hey, I want you

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Speaker 1: to promise me that if you get to the point

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Speaker 1: where you mess up and go back to drinking, because

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Speaker 1: this is someone who is struggled with drinking, that you

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Speaker 1: won't hide it, that you will be open and honest

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Speaker 1: with me or other people in your life, because I

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Speaker 1: think one of the devil's greatest tools is that when

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Speaker 1: we mess up the shame that we feel, he piles

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Speaker 1: it on and we just throw things or tuck them

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Speaker 1: away into the dark, and that's where they fester and grow.

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Speaker 1: And so this guy made that promise to me, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's important. And the reason I bring that

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Speaker 1: up is because today's guest is someone whose recovery journey

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Speaker 1: is not linear. It's not quote unquote clean, and that's

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Speaker 1: why I want to bring it to you. Today's guest

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Speaker 1: is Jeremy Houghton. Jeremy is a regular dude, just like me,

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Speaker 1: just like you. I met him when we used to

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Speaker 1: go to the same church together, and his story is

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Speaker 1: one of those and I'll talk about this a little

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Speaker 1: bit today where I had heard. I had heard it

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Speaker 1: before I was really confronting my own drinking, and it's

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Speaker 1: one that I just kind of stuck in the back

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Speaker 1: of my mind as like, huh, that's interesting because Jeremy

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Speaker 1: hit rock bottom before I ever thought that there was

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Speaker 1: a rock bottom to hit, and and he came through

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Speaker 1: it with a better understanding of his life story, his childhood,

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Speaker 1: his relationships, and then despite all of that, he went

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Speaker 1: back to drinking. And so he's going to share that

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Speaker 1: story with us, and I think it is it is

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Speaker 1: so important, and he's going to talk honestly about his

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Speaker 1: his drinking, about his his you know, pride, about family trauma,

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Speaker 1: about boundaries, and what it really looks like to be obedient.

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Speaker 1: He has a story of obedience about giving up a

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Speaker 1: job that he that he liked, but he knew that

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Speaker 1: he couldn't stay in that job and still have control

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Speaker 1: of his drinking. So he's gonna talk about all of that,

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Speaker 1: and I hope that you stick around for the full

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Speaker 1: thing real quickly. If you have not yet, I would

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Speaker 1: love for you to pick up a copy of my book,

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Speaker 1: Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic. If you are doing dry January,

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Speaker 1: as you are listening to this as this podcast episode

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Speaker 1: is coming out. Don't do it alone, don't white knuckle it,

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Speaker 1: or even if you're not really like well, I was

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Speaker 1: just doing dry January, we'd just like to prove myself

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Speaker 1: I'm not doing because I think you have a problem. Great,

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Speaker 1: but what better time to get curious, right, and maybe

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Speaker 1: there's something greater for you on the other side, Maybe

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Speaker 1: there's something better than just Oh, I'm just giving this

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Speaker 1: thirty days. So I would love for you to pick

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Speaker 1: up the book. It's still thirty percent off and free

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Speaker 1: shipping through the publisher. Just go to Christianlcoholic dot com

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Speaker 1: Christianalcoholic dot com. So, without further let's talk to Jeremy,

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Speaker 1: a dude just like you, just like me, who has

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Speaker 1: gone through it and come out on the other side

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Speaker 1: and realized exactly what was going on beneath the surface

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Speaker 1: when he was trying to stuff all of that down.

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Speaker 1: Jeremy Hilton. Jeremy, thank you so much for joining the

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Speaker 1: Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic podcast. I'm excited to have

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Speaker 1: this conversation. You're one of those people that you know.

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Speaker 1: Originally Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic the book was going

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Speaker 1: to have this section of stories kind of like the

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Speaker 1: AA Big Book that you know, people who were just

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Speaker 1: like me or and but but but had different versions

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Speaker 1: of it. And I interviewed you for the book and

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Speaker 1: then I ran out a room to put all those

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Speaker 1: stories in it, and so I knew I wanted to

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Speaker 1: have like you were always someone when I thought about

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Speaker 1: the podcast, because the podcast was then really born out of, hey,

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Speaker 1: I need to tell these stories. I still need to

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Speaker 1: tell these stories, right, people need to hear this. And

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Speaker 1: so you were always kind of like Jeremy, we gotta

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Speaker 1: get you on, we gotta get you on, and so

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Speaker 1: now here we are. So thank you for joining, Oh

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Speaker 1: thank you having me.

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Speaker 2: It's been exciting.

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Speaker 3: I've been listening to it and it's just, yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: one of those things where it's get the stories out right.

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Speaker 2: How do we get them voice and let people hear it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely, And I'm excited because you know, we have

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Speaker 1: all different kinds of stories on this podcast, and we

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Speaker 1: have all different kinds of people. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: really interesting because you told me something offline that is

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Speaker 1: really important, and that is that you've struggled actually was

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Speaker 1: sharing your story a little bit, especially as of late,

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Speaker 1: because it's a story that maybe some people might not

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Speaker 1: gravitate to, but I think that others will and it's

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Speaker 1: just different and that actually excites me because it's like,

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Speaker 1: if all the stories that we have on here and

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Speaker 1: all the people down here were the same, I just

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Speaker 1: don't think it would be as impactful. And if my

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Speaker 1: goal is to point people to Jesus, I want as

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Speaker 1: many people as possible. And there are going to be

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Speaker 1: people who hear your story and are like that's me right,

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Speaker 1: or I want that or you know, and so again,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate you coming on even despite maybe some of

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Speaker 1: those feelings lately.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I'm like I said, I'm super excited. I

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Speaker 3: think this is encouraging me too, righte good? This is

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Speaker 3: that spreading, Like, internalize that and then realize why am

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Speaker 3: I not?

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Speaker 2: Why haven't I done right? What am I doing? And

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Speaker 2: then let's talk about it right? And as I.

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Speaker 3: Started really digging into it, then then it was like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: let's let's let's dig into this well.

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Speaker 1: And so I think, in a sense, yeah, let's dig

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Speaker 1: into this right. And in order to get there, I'll

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Speaker 1: say this. I remember I was on staff at a

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Speaker 1: church part time the church that you and I met.

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Speaker 1: At the church that you and I went to, I

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Speaker 1: think you were there thirteen years. I was there eight years.

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Speaker 1: And even though we go to different churches now, I

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Speaker 1: think there's that, you know, that's where our stories intersected.

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Speaker 1: And I remember being on staff early on at that

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Speaker 1: church and I was in the backseat of a car

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Speaker 1: and our lead pastor was driving, and his assistant was

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Speaker 1: in the front passenger seat, and the pastor leans over

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Speaker 1: and kind of says, hey, so, how's Jeremy doing. And

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Speaker 1: the assistant happened to be your sister.

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Speaker 2: Sister in law. Yeah, this is so great.

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Speaker 1: And I remember her saying, you know, just like it

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Speaker 1: was very early on, I think in your sobriety journey,

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Speaker 1: and I remember remember thinking, you know, there's there's there's

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Speaker 1: so many in anyone's sobriety journey, I think, and really

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Speaker 1: the journey to crawl back to Jesus is there. For

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Speaker 1: some people, it takes you know, five steps, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it's like that fifth thing that happens is is

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Speaker 1: the tipping point, and some people it's twenty five. And

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Speaker 1: I can't honestly say that hearing that conversation and hearing

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Speaker 1: about you was a step in my journey. I don't

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Speaker 1: know which one it was, but I remember thinking, oh,

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Speaker 1: like not in a judgmental way, but being like, oh interesting,

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Speaker 1: and even just hearing them talk about it, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was a very honoring conversation and like like that

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Speaker 1: was to me an example of oh, there's there, there's

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Speaker 1: there's grace there, right, And it was just one of

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Speaker 1: those things that just got filed away in the back

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Speaker 1: of my mind, and as things got worse for me,

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Speaker 1: I remembered you, you know. And so it's it's a

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Speaker 1: long way to say, take us back to the beginning

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Speaker 1: where you know, in a sense and why our pastor

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Speaker 1: can be talking to your sister in law saying how's Jeremy? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and what exactly were they talking about? I mean shocker,

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Speaker 1: you know. Sorry, yeah, sorry to spoiler alert, Jeremy was

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Speaker 1: an alcoholic. But take us back to the beginning and

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Speaker 1: tell us your story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I trying to think we went back and last

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Speaker 3: time we talked, you know the story. I think if

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Speaker 3: we go way back, just from my childhood, I think

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Speaker 3: we you and I have some similarities, Like my parents

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Speaker 3: worsis when I was three and Dad was California and

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Speaker 3: the Navy, and so I split my summers between my

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Speaker 3: dad and mom, and I spent life with my mom.

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Speaker 3: And I had and I had a stepfather, and he

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Speaker 3: was He was an alcoholic, true, true, full on like

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Speaker 3: you would look and know kind of thing right, and

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Speaker 3: physical emotional abuse at times, nothing like crazy punching, but

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Speaker 3: anger would take over and.

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Speaker 2: Push or shove and stuff.

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Speaker 3: So life was not safe as a kid in my

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Speaker 3: mind right, it just wasn't. It wasn't a healthy gun

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Speaker 3: and all that to be said though, I was raised Catholic,

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Speaker 3: and I struggle with the Catholic faith and just believing

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Speaker 3: what some of this stuff was doing.

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Speaker 2: But there was some part.

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Speaker 3: There early on where that like I knew there was

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Speaker 3: a God, there wasn't a question there.

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Speaker 2: I knew that.

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Speaker 3: Jesus, like I believe Jesus, you know, at the time,

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Speaker 3: but I didn't really know and understand what like my

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Speaker 3: salvation was through Jesus.

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Speaker 2: I didn't really.

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Speaker 3: Grasp that as a kid, I need to say.

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Speaker 2: So we walked through right in Iowa.

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Speaker 3: I had my stepfather from first grade, well actually kindergarten

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Speaker 3: through freshman year and then there was then a second

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Speaker 3: divorce and we were split off and finishing up right

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Speaker 3: high school, got through all that at that time. Even

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Speaker 3: though I wasn't a believer, right, I was very Catholic,

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Speaker 3: but I walked away even from the church at sixteen,

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Speaker 3: a Catholic church, because I just was like, something's wrong

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Speaker 3: and I was just searching. I was not the partier.

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Speaker 3: I didn't drink, I didn't go and do any of

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Speaker 3: the stuff. So I was this kid that just kind

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Speaker 3: of was like I'd look at it and be like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's not waste my time. I don't want that. And

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Speaker 3: then we moved to Texas, so I grew up in Montana,

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Speaker 3: and then when I graduated high school, my mom got

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Speaker 3: her teacher's license, graduated college, and then my sister and

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Speaker 3: brother we all moved down to Texas into Houston. And

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Speaker 3: it was around that time that I actually started to

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Speaker 3: enjoy alcohol. I was eighteen, working in service industry and

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Speaker 3: had friends that you know, we got a drink and

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Speaker 3: hang out. Right, nothing crazy, but I enjoyed it, and

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Speaker 3: I enjoyed a lot.

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Speaker 2: And then I started to realize that.

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Speaker 3: I really liked drinking, and early on I should have

219
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Speaker 3: caught this, but I liked the feeling, and so I

220
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Speaker 3: chased the feeling. So it was how quick could I

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Speaker 3: get to that feeling? Yeah, and how could I maintain it?

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Speaker 3: But then the problem was you couldn't maintain it. You

223
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Speaker 3: would always tip over, you would always go too far.

224
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Speaker 3: You could maintain it once you got to you know.

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Speaker 3: And so I would go through a period for several

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Speaker 3: years of I would drink and then it takes six

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Speaker 3: months off, you know, and just I didn't feel like

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Speaker 3: drinking and go that. And that was kind of through

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Speaker 3: my twenties. That was a lot of how I went

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Speaker 3: about with alcohol. And then and I met Mel and

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Speaker 3: we dated for a year and a half and Mel

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Speaker 3: and Mel is my wife and moved up to Frisco

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Speaker 3: and got married and that was twenty eleven. And at

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Speaker 3: that point, you know, drinking was just kind of a pattern.

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Speaker 3: It was just there, right, you kind of always had it.

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Speaker 3: It was it gotten to the point whereas you just

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Speaker 3: always had drinks with dinner, and it was kind of

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Speaker 3: every night, and that was just it. Like you didn't

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Speaker 3: get slosh, you didn't get drink you know, drunk, but

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Speaker 3: you just had dreams every night, whether it was wine

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Speaker 3: or beer or whatever. And That's the way it was

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Speaker 3: for a while. But then we got a surprise. Three

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Speaker 3: months after marriage. We were pregnant with our daughter. And

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Speaker 3: I was twenty five at the time and mel was

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Speaker 3: twenty three, and we were young, and we were not prepared.

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Speaker 3: Our plan was three months or three years before we

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Speaker 3: were ready to have kids, and it.

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Speaker 2: Was three months and we did not do well with that.

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Speaker 3: We did, but I mean it hit us and what

250
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Speaker 3: I didn't handle it well in the sense of now

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Speaker 3: there's a new stressor in life, right, And that's when

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Speaker 3: my answer to stress of just take attention off, or

253
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Speaker 3: you know, i'm really stressed out, let me ease.

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Speaker 2: That was alcohol.

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Speaker 3: And you know, the thing that I always had was

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Speaker 3: I think it was nineteen was when I was like

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Speaker 3: truly saved. And I'll go back to the real quick because

258
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Speaker 3: nineteen I had just had this sit down moment with

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Speaker 3: a friend on a porch and.

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Speaker 2: At church.

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Speaker 3: So we went to and I was in a rough

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Speaker 3: place and just broke down, gave my life to Christ,

263
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Speaker 3: like truly gave my life to Christ, and just went

264
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Speaker 3: into this period of one of those where I didn't

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Speaker 3: drink because I didn't want to, this period of just

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Speaker 3: it was unsatiable thirst of the Word. And so I

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Speaker 3: would just read four or five chapters in a sitting

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Speaker 3: of Genesis, and I just would sit and just read

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Speaker 3: and read and go through.

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Speaker 2: The Bible.

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Speaker 3: Book by book, you know, And I was just it

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Speaker 3: wasn't like fully studying everything. I was just reading and

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Speaker 3: consuming it and just seeing how God worked. And so

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Speaker 3: that's that's where like, that's that salvation piece. And I

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Speaker 3: say that because that was my I was saved absolutely

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Speaker 3: and and and man did I have a intentional intimate relation.

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Speaker 2: I showed with Jesus.

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Speaker 3: But I also had a crutch for alcohol, and alcohol

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Speaker 3: had become a crutch. And I didn't fill those times

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Speaker 3: with Jesus anymore.

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Speaker 2: I filled them with alcohol.

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Speaker 3: And So as life continued to go through over the

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Speaker 3: next few years, being in the restaurant industry and being

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Speaker 3: stressed or frustrated or just anything right, not content with

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Speaker 3: how life was going right, struggling, the answer was alcohol.

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Speaker 2: The answer was that. And so I was drinking.

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Speaker 3: And then twenty and fourteen to twenty sixteen were kind

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Speaker 3: of the major ones. So you know, we had now

289
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Speaker 3: we had at that point, we had Vincent.

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Speaker 2: In twenty fourteen.

291
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Speaker 3: I had started completely shit, did positions and careers and

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Speaker 3: started managing at Rich's chophouse, and.

293
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Speaker 2: I was stressed. I was now a manager.

294
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Speaker 3: I wasn't making the money in my way, right, I

295
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:18,040
Speaker 3: was working long hours in a restaurant. And when you're

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Speaker 3: in a restaurant, you're a very easy access to alcohol

297
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Speaker 3: as well. Right, They just you just see it, right,

298
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Speaker 3: even if you don't have it there, you see it.

299
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Speaker 3: And we had two kids, and then we were trying

300
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Speaker 3: to get a new house, our first house, and so

301
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,639
Speaker 3: we had moved in with her parents to save a

302
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,840
Speaker 3: lot of money, and we did and we got a

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Speaker 3: house in twenty sixteen. But then buying a new house

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Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen, a's new stress is that you're not yeah,

305
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Speaker 3: And I just it was just compile that when I

306
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,880
Speaker 3: never dealt with it, and then my stress and honestly

307
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,920
Speaker 3: my unhappiness at work. And I think that's the bigger thing,

308
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:06,280
Speaker 3: the worst, the biggest what would you call it, the

309
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:12,480
Speaker 3: biggest trigger or something was actually unhappiness. Like at that point,

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Speaker 3: I was just unhappy because everything may be unhappy, my stress, frustrations,

311
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Speaker 3: money problems, all of that, right, and I just looked

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Speaker 3: to have something to keep me going. And so by

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Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, it was I was drinking just to get

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Speaker 3: through the day.

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Speaker 1: When you say that like meaning like physical, there were

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Speaker 1: physical withdrawals and physician to drink away or or or

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Speaker 1: was just like just the emotions.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't a physical at all. It was the emotions.

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Speaker 3: And honestly that actually in going back to the intimate

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Speaker 3: relationship that I had with God, there wasn't a day,

321
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 3: there wasn't a morning that I wasn't having a conversation

322
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Speaker 3: and the Holy Spirit telling me turn, do not take

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Speaker 3: another drink?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just turn and come back. And I would.

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Speaker 3: I would battle that on my drive to work, and

326
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Speaker 3: and I would choose alcohol because it was easier.

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Speaker 1: What did that look like? What did choosing alcohol just

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Speaker 1: to get through the day look like?

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Speaker 3: It would be vodka and orange juice in the mornings

330
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Speaker 3: and then whatever I could find and throw in a

331
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Speaker 3: in a in a cup all throughout the day, throughout

332
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Speaker 3: the day, just going yeah, it had gotten really bad

333
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 3: and I couldn't Yeah, it just it was.

334
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Speaker 2: It was bad, and and and and.

335
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Speaker 3: Twenty seventeen, So we get through twenty sixteen, first year

336
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 3: having the house right, and we signed in twenty sixteen.

337
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 3: We signed in December, so realistically, twenty seventeen was a

338
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 3: year that we actually owned the house, like for a

339
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 3: full year.

340
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Speaker 2: And going through it.

341
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 3: I had a hernia that collapsed and they had to

342
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 3: grog Ruscipian to get me into the hospital and to

343
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 3: get surgery on it, right because it was intestinal, so

344
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,360
Speaker 3: it was they were like, you can't keep that. It's

345
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 3: gonna it's dangerous, right, so they have to do surgery.

346
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 3: And Mel and I are sitting in the hospital and

347
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 3: the nurse or whatever the doctor in the er is like,

348
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 3: your liver enzymes are highly elevated, and she's like, you

349
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 3: need to stop drinking. And I said, yeah, I'll stop

350
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 3: for a little bit. And Mel heard it, and she's

351
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 3: and we'll get and her because her story is another

352
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 3: part of this. Right, God's incredible with what he's doing.

353
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:12,120
Speaker 3: But uh, I remember her thinking like you just said

354
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 3: you'll stop for a little bit or you'll think about it, essentially,

355
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 3: like that didn't trigger to me of like wake up call,

356
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 3: and that you know, to her, that's major, right, she

357
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,920
Speaker 3: already had red flags, but like major red flag, like

358
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 3: you're just not gonna quit.

359
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 2: And in her mind. I wasn't gonna quit.

360
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 3: And I didn't, and I lied to people, and in

361
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 3: a month later in November, I got fired from my

362
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 3: job because of alcohol.

363
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Speaker 1: And what did that look like?

364
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 3: There was there were rumors and nobody had proof, right,

365
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 3: but they all suspected it, and Rick giving me the

366
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 3: benefit of doubt.

367
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 2: The owner, right, the owner gave me the benefit of doubt.

368
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,679
Speaker 3: And then there was a cup that I had that

369
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 3: had I don't remember, a fluid coffee or something, right,

370
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 3: coffee cup I opened up in the morning. I had

371
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 3: opened up the restaurant and I left my coffee cup

372
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 3: playing around and somebody opened it up, smelled it, poured

373
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 3: it out, put it through the dishwasher, set it up there,

374
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 3: and I went and grabbed it. And that was when

375
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 3: they knew, like, yeah, that was him, because you know,

376
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 3: I remember the bartender asked, was that your cup? And

377
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,719
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, I've been looking for it. So

378
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 3: it was kind of like finally there and yeah, I

379
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 3: had it been affecting your work?

380
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:46,199
Speaker 2: I think it did.

381
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 3: I would forget certain things I wouldn't do so not

382
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 3: like in the day to day of getting the task done.

383
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was.

384
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 3: All the other stuff afterwards, right, and I think it

385
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 3: did it did. It definitely did fetch certain aspects, but

386
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 3: it wasn't like anything in a major There was an incident.

387
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 2: That I bled.

388
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,919
Speaker 3: Now I'll say this though, this was the big question,

389
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 3: which was the week prior or earlier that week.

390
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 2: So this all happened over this like one week period.

391
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 3: That Tuesday, I left and had a drink, came back,

392
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 3: but it was a heavy drink, very heavy, and it

393
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 3: hit me.

394
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 2: I blamed it on the paying medications from the surgery.

395
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then there was the incident from the cup,

396
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 3: and then there was the next Yeah, there was something else.

397
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 3: I don't remember what it was, but it was all

398
00:24:54,040 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 3: in this week a few things. What's crazy is in

399
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 3: this time, Mel for the first time felt like she

400
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 3: was supposed to go through redemption and so she was in.

401
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: That redemptions people is it's basically like a recovery class

402
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: at our at our the church that we were at

403
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 1: at the time, So it's kind of It.

404
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 2: Was a great book.

405
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 3: Unfortunate circumstances of people that had backed it and been

406
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 3: a part of it church wise, but an incredible book.

407
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 3: And it focused on pain, So it wasn't just like

408
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 3: recovering and experiment. So for Mel was going through like

409
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 3: what is the pain that you have in your life

410
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 3: and uprooting it and understanding it and why is that

411
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 3: so painful? And and and then being able to forgive,

412
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 3: let go and release some of that and work through it.

413
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 3: And so she's going through this because God put it

414
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 3: on her heart to go through redemption. And her graduation

415
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 3: was the Saturday of that same weekend, right, so between

416
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 3: Tuesday and then the following Tuesday. That Saturday night, I was,

417
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 3: she came in and the family came in and they

418
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 3: celebrated her graduation because I couldn't get it off.

419
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: And so they came in and ate.

420
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 3: And then Tuesday the following that following Tuesday, so four.

421
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 2: Days later, I am like, go from my job and just.

422
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: I didn't know what to do, right did they? Did

423
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: they tell you hate for drinking on the job?

424
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 2: Did it? Was?

425
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 3: And this is where Rick had a lot of grace.

426
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 3: Did a thing for it? Was he understood that I

427
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 3: was struggling. He knew, so he wasn't gonna make it

428
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 3: any harder. So he's like, I'm letting you go because

429
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 3: you didn't get this thing like you weren't getting things

430
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 3: done so used like other aspects of like I wasn't

431
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 3: accomplishing stuff off, like getting things done and turned in

432
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 3: on time that were necessary and stuff like that.

433
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 2: Never mentioned it was about alcohol. But if we're pian honest,

434
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 2: it was about alcohol, right and and he.

435
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 3: So I was given that grace already there of of.

436
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 2: Here you go. I got a few months.

437
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 3: Severance and and everything and and that was it, right

438
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 3: like and that was the next step.

439
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: And that was when they had the wake up call.

440
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 3: And my wake up call though was two days late,

441
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 3: two three days later.

442
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 2: So I was a guy. I'm quitting drinks.

443
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 3: Like Melani came home, I had to face my wife,

444
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 3: talk through it, poured out all the alcohol that was

445
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 3: in the house, said I was done. And then two

446
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 3: days later, I want to say this, two days later,

447
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 3: I got another bottle, went to the store, picked on

448
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 3: and drank and then I picked up my daughter from

449
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 3: school and then I drank the rest of it and

450
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 3: then I blacked out that evening.

451
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: Wow.

452
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 2: And all this time and.

453
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 3: I don't know the exact timing, right, but they all

454
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 3: had to do was like going through redemption.

455
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 2: All that stuff. Mel was done. We were in the

456
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: brink of divorce.

457
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 3: She had already made plans and then when I blacked out,

458
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: that was like the straw that broke the camel's back.

459
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 3: She went to her parents and she was just like,

460
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 3: I'm filing for divorce.

461
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 2: And brought it.

462
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 3: To them, her parents for counsel and just why and

463
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 3: said it and can we come and live with you?

464
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 3: And they the god fearing people they are, and amazing

465
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 3: people like, we don't believe in divorce, but we're still gonna. Yes,

466
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 3: we're here right like, we're not going to encourage you

467
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 3: to go pursue it, but at the same time, we're

468
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 3: going to support you and attach you and be her

469
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 3: for you.

470
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 2: And I didn't know this.

471
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 3: I found this out a few weeks later, but I

472
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 3: woke up that next morning. I had no clue about

473
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 3: all this, right other than like just the facts that

474
00:29:54,000 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 3: I backed out, And.

475
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 2: That was when what we talked about, that radical shift.

476
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this, Okay, so let's let's pause.

477
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: Let's pause there for a second. Right, So up until

478
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: this point, I mean, obviously the drinking is bad. It's

479
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: you know, you have this, this this blackout moment. What

480
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: do you you're you know, you said you're having these

481
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: kind of arguments with the Holy Spirit every every morning.

482
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: What were you saying either in response to the Holy

483
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: Spirit to yourself or were you just like stuffing it

484
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: and pushing it down? Like what was kind of the

485
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: conversation internally that you're having with yourself as it's getting

486
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: this bad.

487
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 2: It was.

488
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 3: The best way that I've described it to people was

489
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 3: in a turmoil.

490
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. It felt like I mean, it was just spiritual

491
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: war going on.

492
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: And it was like I was being wrenched on both sides,

493
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 3: and it was this pain of being like I know

494
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 3: I need to do this, but I can't. I can't separate,

495
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 3: can't stop. And so then this overwhelming hopelessness that was

496
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 3: able to seep in and just feel like that like

497
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 3: you're never going to be able to quit. Yeah, and

498
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 3: yet still having hearing like full well and having the

499
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 3: pull on my heart made it even worse. I think

500
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 3: it almost made it worse because it was like, you

501
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,719
Speaker 3: know when you people that you see that we're like

502
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 3: people are trying to just love on somebody and they're

503
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 3: so far like it's almost like that term of their

504
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 3: so far gone that they actually like lashed back out

505
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 3: like like, yeah, they reject. It's like the rejection becomes

506
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 3: like the the the reaction is actually even harsh your

507
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 3: back because they're trying to just like forget about me

508
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 3: kind of thing, you know, like like I'm a lost

509
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 3: cause forget about me. And then that's really what it

510
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 3: felt like to me trying to tell God like I

511
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 3: I and I didn't think, like we're still going to

512
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 3: church every single Sunday, and I was still like it

513
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 3: wasn't that I didn't believe God, like I'm sitting here

514
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 3: talking with him, but I was just like, this part of.

515
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: Me is lost.

516
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 3: Yeah I'm great, you know, this is lost that you

517
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 3: have other parts, but this part of me We're just

518
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 3: gonna have to live with. Yeah, you know, I even

519
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,239
Speaker 3: I think I even tried to attribute is this is

520
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 3: my thorn in my side, which was not it, you know,

521
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 3: but but at the time, it's like, this is just

522
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 3: my thorn.

523
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna have to deal with this.

524
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: Or wasn't a way, but it's like right, well too.

525
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah, it's supposed to draw me closer to him.

526
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not a fat realistic like oh okay, this

527
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: is we all have our thing. You know, but but

528
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: I told myself that too. I mean, there is a

529
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: point in my life where I'm like, listen, everyone's got

530
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: their stuff. I drink a little too much from time

531
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: to time, until from time to time became every night.

532
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, what do you feel like before we

533
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: kind of get to you know, the future and the

534
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: turning point, what do you feel like was at the

535
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: heart of your drinking? You know, I've said, you know,

536
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: when it comes to my story, it's really escapism. And

537
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: some of that is a learned behavior from trauma you know,

538
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: experienced in youth, and you know, anxiety and OCD clinical

539
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: that that's just like you can't stop thinking about things.

540
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: So you know, there's there's different roots to mine. But

541
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: I'm curious, what do you feel like was at the

542
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: root of yours?

543
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 2: I think it was? I actually, I know and one

544
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: it was.

545
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 3: It was Originally it was just like stressed they didn't

546
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 3: want to handle, right, Yeah, But ultimately what it boiled

547
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 3: down to was once it got to a level where

548
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 3: it was something that I didn't want to deal with anymore,

549
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 3: Like I didn't want to work at this job anymore.

550
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 3: I hated I despised it so much, like I was

551
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 3: so just upset with the workload. I was so unhappy

552
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 3: like that that drove me. And then I found out

553
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 3: later on also that when it was something that put

554
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 3: me in an awkward position that I didn't want to

555
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 3: do right, So, something that was really really hard, like

556
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 3: a conversation with a family member that meant that I

557
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:44,399
Speaker 3: was going to essentially potentially have to cut them off,

558
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 3: and that had massive effects.

559
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 2: Or prior to that, having.

560
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 3: To deal with the situations and be the go between

561
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 3: between a family member and my wife and my kids

562
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 3: and having to be and I'll be honest, it was.

563
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: My mom, like the having to be the honoring son.

564
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 3: While also being the biggest advocate for my wife and kids.

565
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: Things like that are what triggered me.

566
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:25,919
Speaker 3: So and we could go later on because we'll talk

567
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 3: about it, like with my mom that caused me to

568
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 3: slip and we started melting.

569
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 2: I started tracing back.

570
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 3: On that and and and and I think you and

571
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 3: I talked about this like years later, so we'll get

572
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 3: more into it. But it was the my wife's unhappy

573
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 3: because my mom is doing does things that just start

574
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 3: not Okay, my kids aren't healthy. It's not she's not

575
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 3: healthy around my kids, and yet I'm supposed to be

576
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 3: called to be this honoring son, and I had to

577
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 3: find that balance. And also I had to kind of

578
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 3: be like, can you all help me, like make my

579
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 3: life just a little bit easier when we're dealing with this.

580
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 2: Because you know, the tensions hit.

581
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 3: And then I also am carrying other people's burdens in

582
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 3: a way that I shouldn't have to. It's not like

583
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 3: I came across with the brother and walk in like

584
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 3: let's go, let's pick it up, because that that I

585
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 3: I'm big idea, like let's go right, spirits got us.

586
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 3: We're walking together in burden. But it's like that tension

587
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 3: of carrying what other people have, like disdain for somebody

588
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 3: or frustrations, right, and then I'm supposed to carry that on.

589
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 3: I don't handle that well. Yeah, and and and so

590
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 3: when it's stuff like that and I don't have a

591
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 3: way to release it, that's when I would be drama.

592
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 3: That's when it was just like I don't have anywhere

593
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 3: for this to go, and I despise it.

594
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 2: So what do I do right right? Drink to numb it? Yeah?

595
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, all right, so take us to you know,

596
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: kind of the transformational season, the transformational moment, even take it,

597
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 1: take us to that.

598
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was that morning that I woke up the.

599
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 3: Next morning after having blacked out, after having blacked out,

600
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 3: and just woke up and realized, like what the hell,

601
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 3: like I can't do this.

602
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: And I looked at now. We talked that morning again.

603
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 3: We talked in the morning, and it finally broke, like

604
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 3: my heart just released and I you know, tears, everything

605
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 3: came out like just a flood of emotion. And I

606
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 3: looked at her and just said, we've got I can't

607
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 3: stop on my own right, and she pretty much gave me.

608
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 2: It was a good olds made. It was like you

609
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: either like this.

610
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 3: Silence or I'm leaving, like we're not continuing if this continues,

611
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 3: Like I can't stay in this marriage, I can't keep

612
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 3: these kids in this And so I knew at that point,

613
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm either gonna lose my family.

614
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:21,760
Speaker 2: Or I stopped drinking.

615
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 3: And I turned and just gave it all to Cod

616
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 3: and just said, I can't do this, Like you've been

617
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 3: nagging me for you know, and nagging is not the

618
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 3: right word, but he has been chasing and pulling at

619
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 3: me and yanking, and I mean he has been running

620
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 3: me down for years and I was like, so I

621
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 3: know you're there, and I just turned and gave it

622
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 3: to him. And there was other things that we turned

623
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 3: and said, like we can't keep doing this, and so

624
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 3: we it was just we prayed.

625
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 2: And just gave it to him.

626
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 3: We look back at it now often and say that

627
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 3: we had a castle made on sand and we handed

628
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 3: it all to him. I gave him everything. I said,

629
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 3: you have to lead. I'm gonna lay everything into it

630
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 3: and trust you. I'm going to walk through this life

631
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 3: and I need you know because at this point, I'm

632
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 3: gonna have to find a new job. I can't go

633
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 3: back into the restaurant industry because if I do, I'm

634
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 3: gonna be surrounded by alcohol. Yeah, and I don't need

635
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 3: to be put in that situation.

636
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 2: And that's not even actually the alcohol that was a

637
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 2: scary thing.

638
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 3: It was the atmosphere of the restaurant industry that would

639
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 3: cause the stress level to want me to or make

640
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 3: me want to right like.

641
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: Which it's such a good I think, sorry, but I

642
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: just want to point out that is such a good

643
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: thing to think about, and I want people to not

644
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: miss that because you know, when you think about the

645
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: verses and the swim around the mount where Jesus is

646
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: talking about like if you're you know, if your right

647
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 1: eye is causing you to stumble pluck it out right,

648
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: Is Jesus really wanting us fifty percent of us to

649
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: go blind? You know, like us to go fifty percent blind. No,

650
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 1: what he's saying is, if there are things in your

651
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: life that are continuing to catch you and trip you up,

652
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: you may have to do things drastic, right. And so

653
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: for some people listening to this, you may be in

654
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: a job, you may be in a role, you may

655
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: be in a family situation right, you know, where alcohol

656
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: is constantly there or the stress is constantly there, and

657
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 1: just like Jeremy who had had made his mark in

658
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: the restaurant industry, you may have to say I can't

659
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 1: go back there. I may have to start over. I

660
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 1: may have to do something different. I may need to

661
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: pluck the eye out because I'm not going to put

662
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: my self in those situations. And I think that's really important.

663
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, agreed, And I think that's the thing is

664
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 3: is you know, separating myself is one of the big

665
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 3: piece that that goes unnoticed like you said, like you can,

666
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 3: it's very easy to gloss over it.

667
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I made a good choice.

668
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 3: That's kind of the the amount I would have given

669
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 3: it write credit, and I think that's giving it not

670
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 3: enough credit. Like, like you pointed out, I think more

671
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 3: to it, right, Like making that choice that was significant,

672
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 3: and yet it's so simple.

673
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean how much.

674
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: You know, you look at those things and you know

675
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: because they you know, the further you further away you

676
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: get from them, the less impactful they may seem. Right,

677
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: But in the moment, that's a huge leap of faith.

678
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 1: That's a huge trust of like I'm not going to

679
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 1: go back. Like people listening to this, think about what

680
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: you're doing as a job right now and what you

681
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: have been doing as a job for how many years?

682
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: And if all of a sudden tomorrow you're like, I'm

683
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: not going to do that. I am so dedicated to

684
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: this new life and to running away and fleeing from

685
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: this thing that I am literally going to switch jobs

686
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: and I have no idea what I'm going to do. Like,

687
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 1: that's a leap of faith, and sometimes that's what this requires. Right,

688
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: A lot of times it did.

689
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 3: It was Yeah, and I look back Melani Melan I

690
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 3: were talking about this and you know, making that choice

691
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 3: right then, it was like, Okay, we knew it was

692
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 3: the field that I wanted to get into, but I

693
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 3: wasn't gonna go back to college.

694
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 2: Honestly, I couldn't afford to go back into college at

695
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: the time.

696
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And and it was just like, how do we

697
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 3: get into this? So then I was struggling because I

698
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 3: was like, I did interviews and even one of the

699
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 3: interviews that I was doing was actually for it with

700
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 3: point of sales system for the company that does that

701
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 3: did like the and West Legacy the there's that big

702
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 3: place they have all the different restaurants in it. Trying

703
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 3: to remember what the name of it is, but it's

704
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 3: like different types of restaurants come in and I said,

705
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 3: three stories, you know what I'm talking about. It's like

706
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 3: a food hall. Yeah, yeah, and it's something yeah like that.

707
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 3: And so it was for that company, and yes, it

708
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 3: had been point of sales in it, but it also

709
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 3: still would have been tied to the restaurant industry. And

710
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 3: I got all the way to the final interview and

711
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 3: then they went with someone else, and I thank god

712
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 3: now for that. But yeah, it definitely was one of

713
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 3: those where like I was interviewing with I mean, I

714
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 3: went to I was like, I need to get a job.

715
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 3: So I even went to UPS and I'm sitting there,

716
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 3: I applied. I was like, I'll do something here while

717
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 3: I try and figure out what we're doing next, like

718
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 3: let's get something come coming. And I'm sitting there listening

719
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 3: to this guy talk and I just was like, no,

720
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 3: this isn't it. And now normally that's not the answer,

721
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 3: Like normally it would be like most people, it's like

722
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 3: did you just need someone, like you need to get right?

723
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 3: But because everything that's so radically changing and everything that's

724
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 3: been going on, and I just said I am praying

725
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 3: and giving this all to him, there was just this

726
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 3: sort of like you know, this isn't it, and and

727
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 3: this is gonna be harder, like we already knew that

728
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 3: that you like, this is not the job. And so

729
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 3: I got up and left. And in this time, at

730
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 3: this time, this had been so that was November when

731
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 3: I got left. So December we just we got through

732
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 3: Christmas together as a family, still have my servants, and

733
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,720
Speaker 3: then January and February. So in January I actually started

734
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 3: with a friend that also went to our church, Ben,

735
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 3: and he gave me an opportunity to come in and

736
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 3: do some contract contract work in it and work and

737
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 3: do some stuff. And that gave us little money, but

738
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 3: also it got them to see in the startup to

739
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 3: help fill in and take some like some work needed

740
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:17,280
Speaker 3: to be done off of his plate.

741
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 2: But also he got to see it.

742
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 3: And so I was given an opportunity, and so I

743
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 3: left ups and then I lost. I didn't get the

744
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 3: job from the other company, the point of sale restaurant

745
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 3: industry company. And then the next day Ben and Debbie,

746
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 3: the heads of the company of the startup they offered me,

747
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 3: gave me an offer letter and it was like this

748
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 3: is this is why, right and so, and when I

749
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 3: got it, the pay was lower, and it was because

750
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 3: they weren't hiring for you, so technically they couldn't hire me.

751
00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 3: They weren't supposed to, but they made this exception. And

752
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 3: yes the pay was lower, but I was now an

753
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 3: opportunity to get into the IT field and start a

754
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 3: new career.

755
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 2: And God was just you know, it was it was

756
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 2: clear like take it.

757
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 3: And so the way that He led the opportunities and

758
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 3: doors that he opened and closed for us and like

759
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 3: guided me through this and these those next few months

760
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 3: leading up to that, right between alcohol and starting this job,

761
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 3: we're just very clear, right.

762
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 2: And they weren't easy, because it's hard. You you have.

763
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 3: You have people that are outside that don't fully understand

764
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 3: the entire situation that are like, well, we'll just go

765
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 3: get a job.

766
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 2: With the communience, or go get a job, you can

767
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 2: go do this, go do that.

768
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 3: And normally yes, because a lot of times that is

769
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 3: the answer. It's like you just need to start working somewhere.

770
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 3: But God, in this instant.

771
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 2: It was like that's not no.

772
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 3: And and so I had to double down in that

773
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 3: and listen to him while listening to others and thanked

774
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 3: them for their like support and advice to what they

775
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 3: were trying to do.

776
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 2: But but God, and listen.

777
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 3: To him, and and and and one thing was we

778
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 3: had this radical transformation where I shifted in that day.

779
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 3: The part about that radical that I want to say, like,

780
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 3: why is it right? When we go back about that,

781
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 3: it flipped a switch. I didn't desire alcohol the next day.

782
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 3: I didn't desire alcohol again for years, Like I had

783
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 3: euro desire from alcohol from that day when I gave

784
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:50,839
Speaker 3: it to God.

785
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 2: Wow, I didn't.

786
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 3: I gave it over to him and I despised it

787
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 3: so much in stly that it was a true repentance

788
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 3: and I walked away from alcohol.

789
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: And so because there's some people that are gonna be like,

790
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: come on.

791
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 3: I know that's why I said this is this is

792
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 3: that part that's been hard to talk about sometimes.

793
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: Okay, So that so you make that decision, you say

794
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 1: I'm done, you give it to God. And is it like,

795
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,399
Speaker 1: is it like the next time you smell it you're

796
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 1: just turned off? Or what did that practically look like?

797
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: It was I could be around it and I didn't care.

798
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: It was I could smell it and it didn't matter.

799
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 1: I didn't desire it. I'd have a glass of iced tea.

800
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 2: I was fine. It was it was. It was.

801
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 3: It was literally he flipped a switch. I didn't desire anymore.

802
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 3: My mindset was just like that's cool and I And

803
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 3: it wasn't like I couldn't be around it either, that

804
00:48:58,440 --> 00:48:58,879
Speaker 3: was the thing.

805
00:48:58,960 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 2: It was like.

806
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 3: It was just like like I could still come say

807
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 3: hey to my friends and I was not like a

808
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 3: waiting people because there was alcohol, you know, they had

809
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 3: a drink there or something like it was, I just

810
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 3: it was it was, yeah, it's really hard, like yes,

811
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 3: I was really difficult to sit there and be like yeah,

812
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 3: I just didn't and and it. But the thing about

813
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 3: it is we had to have that radical transformation, Like

814
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 3: God knew that I had to have that radical transformation

815
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 3: because our marriage. Had I not have that radical transformation,

816
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 3: would not continue like there was there's no doubt. So

817
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 3: without the radical transformation, our marriage would not have been

818
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 3: able to be redeemed. There would be no redemption in

819
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 3: our marriage if there wasn't that radical transformation in my.

820
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,479
Speaker 2: In my drinking. And then to go.

821
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 3: Even further like without even before then, God led her

822
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 3: to have redemption leading up to all of this so

823
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 3: that you prepare her heart for this, like he was

824
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 3: just flipping like putting pieces in place for us to

825
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 3: lead through this.

826
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: So you have this radical transformation in the sense that

827
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: like your desire just goes what There's two questions that

828
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: I want to pause and ask. One is did you

829
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 1: start telling people? Did you start talking about it like

830
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 1: you know, what was that like? And then two, what

831
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 1: was the reaction of those around you? What was the

832
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 1: reaction of the church just in general to you being

833
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 1: a Christian that now is like, yeah, I was an alcoholic.

834
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not sure if you use those words,

835
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 1: but whatever word you use, yeah or whatever. But yeah,

836
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: So did you start telling people and what was the reaction?

837
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:04,280
Speaker 2: Yeah?

838
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 3: So I did the first I remember in the first

839
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 3: few days, right, it's all fresh still, right, and so

840
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 3: I knew walking in that like I'm gonna have grace.

841
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be allowed to say hey, like you cannot

842
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 3: trust and you're gonna ask questions, right because when I

843
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 3: tell you alcohol, you're gonna ask questions. And so I

844
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 3: was ready and open. I was just like, let's I'm

845
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 3: not gonna get offended. I'm not gonna get upset, you know,

846
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 3: because you're you're you're sensitive at that time, right.

847
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 2: You're vulnerable. You're very vulnerable and sensitive.

848
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 3: And so I I I confess to community group that

849
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 3: that following that night, actually I want to say it

850
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 3: was that that same night that we have the issue

851
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 3: or whatever, Like I confessed to the guys that community group.

852
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: And what did you say, Like, hey, I've been hiding like.

853
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 2: This it all lout.

854
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 3: I was like I have been drinking or ever, just

855
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 3: that kind of laid everything out, you know, there's prayers

856
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 3: and everything, but that was kind of a jaded I

857
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,879
Speaker 3: have almost a jaded memory of that, just because it

858
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 3: was that was way early on, and actually I the

859
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 3: timing maybe off. That might have been in between. So

860
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 3: I go back to it, like it might have been

861
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 3: right in between when I lost my job and then

862
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 3: the the lapse and then the actual transformation. We're talking

863
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 3: like a week and a half in all of this, right,

864
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 3: So it's like I think it did confess early. And

865
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 3: then when I was looking for a job, I came up.

866
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 3: I remember I came to Vincent's. We were in November,

867
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 3: so Vincent's uh he mel was still working at the

868
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 3: church and the preschool, and Vincent had a recital the

869
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 3: Things Giving Day recital. So I came to that, came

870
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 3: to Vincent is he is my son youngest? Yeah, and uh,

871
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 3: and so he came to the recital and or the performance.

872
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 3: And then afterwards, I think I had an interview with Low's.

873
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 2: Something, right. I was just trying to get something at

874
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 2: that time, and I walked into.

875
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 3: Our pastor's lead pastor's office and not and asked if

876
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 3: he could pray for me, and I told him what

877
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 3: was going on. By this time, that's boss knew because

878
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 3: he was over the children's ministry and a friend of her,

879
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 3: like we've known him forever too, so he already knew

880
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 3: as well. But I just talked to with our pastor

881
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 3: and just asked, like, pray for me, and he asked

882
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 3: me a few questions.

883
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:50,839
Speaker 2: He was he he it was.

884
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,800
Speaker 3: It was very much like one of the first questions

885
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:58,240
Speaker 3: I remember was is she safe? Is your family safe?

886
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 3: Are they okay? So again there's the glad you're telling

887
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 3: me this, but we're gonna you know, there's a protocol

888
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 3: of questions that probably should be asked. And it was

889
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,720
Speaker 3: a good thing he did, I think, And of course

890
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 3: I Mike received it and wasn't upset, but I was

891
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 3: also just like, yes, they're fine. I had nothing like that.

892
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 3: I didn't do anything physical or any of that. But yeah,

893
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 3: no he didn't. So then he prayed for me. And

894
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 3: so to go back in here like when you were

895
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 3: talking about early staff and him asking about it, like

896
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 3: he and I never really talked again, so there was

897
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 3: always I always kind of wondered. I always like, does

898
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 3: he did he remember that? And even though I knew

899
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 3: that that my sister in law was the assistant. By

900
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 3: that time, I'm working. I just didn't know if that

901
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 3: you know, you don't know those conversations, You're not always

902
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 3: going to hear those.

903
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 2: So it's cool to see circle.

904
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 3: Back late and that that was one of the early

905
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 3: conversations that you herd and stuff. And I know that

906
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 3: there was you know, and so knows that there were

907
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 3: there were prayers there, yeah, and and so yeah. And

908
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 3: then I started regularly having coffee and meeting and checking

909
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 3: in with the mel's boss who was the children the

910
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 3: Minister of Children's and he and I went through for

911
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 3: several months going at it. And then that first week

912
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 3: going back also do this, Like I went the first week,

913
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:34,760
Speaker 3: I found a recovery group called or what's that's celebrate Recovery.

914
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:35,479
Speaker 2: Yeah.

915
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 3: I was like, I promised Mala would would go. I

916
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:40,399
Speaker 3: was like, she's like, you need to talk with people,

917
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 3: you need to get at there. And I was like okay,

918
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 3: And and I found a church that was close to

919
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 3: us that have to celebrate recovery. And so I went

920
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 3: to two meetings. And this is the part where I'm

921
00:55:56,239 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 3: sitting in the meeting, I'm open. It's that it's you

922
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 3: only have a few of us. She talked, kind of

923
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 3: told the story kind of the same thing, right, a

924
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 3: lot of praying and worship, and the worship was great,

925
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 3: like at that time, I was just in this area

926
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 3: of like, you know, I captured my heart again and

927
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 3: I'm cree you know, and uh, but I'm sitting there

928
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 3: and this is the part that I would told you

929
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 3: I've I've been hesitant to talk about. Is I'm sitting

930
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,479
Speaker 3: in the meeting on the second night, so the second week,

931
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 3: and the guy that's in there goes, if I don't

932
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:41,800
Speaker 3: come to these meetings every single day, I am going

933
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 3: to go.

934
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 2: Relapse and do that again. And I don't remember what

935
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 2: his saying. His wasn't alcohol, but it was something.

936
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 3: And I was like just this alarm and my bells

937
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 3: were like no, that's not true, Like that's not enough.

938
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,120
Speaker 3: And I think that was the thing was I I

939
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,879
Speaker 3: was sitting there like this isn't a no, like no,

940
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 3: because now you're just trapped by something else. If you're

941
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,320
Speaker 3: can can, if you were if you were literally making

942
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 3: that statement that if I don't come to these for

943
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 3: the rest of my life, I'm gonna do that sin again.

944
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm gonna go have that alcohol again. I'm

945
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 3: gonna go do this. And we see it with a

946
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 3: we see it with the other ones where they're like,

947
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 3: you have to do it, because what's the big the

948
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 3: big one where they say, you know, when you're feeling good,

949
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:30,919
Speaker 3: that's when you're the most vulnerable and then you find

950
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 3: yourself relapsing. I was like, no, no, that can't be

951
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 3: it like, and so I was sitting there like that's

952
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 3: not enough for me. Yeah, that's not enough for what's

953
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 3: going on.

954
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: And so and let me just pause there, because I

955
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 1: think this is a really important topic. And I know

956
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: there are people that listen to this podcast who are

957
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: all about AA or celebrate recovery. I speak at some

958
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: celebrate recoveries. I am not anti celebrate recovery. Although interestingly,

959
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: one of the most confusing and I think wrong things

960
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: ever said to me was by someone who let us

961
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 1: celebrate recovery, who she said that if I was not

962
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 1: doing their program, I may be sober, but I'm not

963
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,439
Speaker 1: in recovery. And I think, you know, I talk about

964
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: this a little bit in the book, but any program,

965
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 1: you know, the whole premise of my book, right is

966
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 1: anything that is misordered is disordered, right, and so anything

967
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 1: that you worship is a problem. And to your point,

968
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: I have seen many people give up alcohol only to

969
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 1: be a slave to a program, only to be a

970
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 1: slave to meetings, right, are those things? Here's the funny

971
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 1: thing I'll say, Jeremy, is that guy that you're talking about, Undoubtedly,

972
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 1: he's actually probably right, He's actually right that if he

973
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: doesn't come to meetings every day, he will relapse. Right,

974
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 1: that's the problem. And what I would say is that's

975
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: the person that may be sober, but he's not in recovery, right, right, right,

976
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 1: And that's a little bit like I say that facetiously,

977
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 1: like you know, you don't don't clip this and then

978
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: put this all over. But my point is I view

979
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 1: recovery as shooting for Jesus and getting sobriety thrown in,

980
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: right that, Like I want to get at all of

981
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: those things that are leading me to that in the

982
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: first place. You know, when I speak, I'll sometimes ask,

983
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: you know, because the people will bus bust aa people

984
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 1: in and you knows and stuff in, and I'll say,

985
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: how many of you know a miserable sober person, And

986
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 1: a lot of them will raise their hand, right, And

987
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, here's the problem the world in the programs

988
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 1: say those people are doing great, right, like like they

989
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 1: stand up in a plot. For those people, I want

990
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: more for them. I want more for you than having

991
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 1: to go to daily meetings. Is there a period in

992
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: your life in early sobriety where daily meetings may be

993
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 1: required to like rewire your brain and your patterns and

994
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 1: your absolutely one right? And I tell people, if all

995
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: that's available to use AA, if all that's available to

996
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:23,439
Speaker 1: use some twelve is a twelve step program, and maybe

997
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: that's celebrate recovery. I prefer celebrate recovery over AA because

998
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,280
Speaker 1: it's got this Jesus, you know, bent to it, right.

999
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: But if that's all that's available to do it, But

1000
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:35,160
Speaker 1: I don't want you to stop there right right, And

1001
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 1: maybe that can be part of you know, if you're

1002
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 1: aiming for Jesus and you still go to a weekly

1003
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 1: like I'm not saying that you're not a Christian, then

1004
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 1: if you go to these like that's not that's not

1005
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: that either. But I want more for you. I want

1006
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 1: more for you. And so trading one slave master for

1007
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: another is not freedom right just because you're.

1008
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 2: Not that's a slit, that's that's freedom.

1009
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 3: You can't there is freedom, I think apart from Jesus, No,

1010
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 3: I don't. I mean, I'm sure there may be somebody

1011
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 3: that that's something, but but for me, I have freedom

1012
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 3: because of God, because of what he did, because of

1013
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 3: of that, in that in my sobriety and what the

1014
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 3: alarm bellow was ringing in my head at that time

1015
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 3: when I heard that this guy say this and and

1016
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 3: celebrate recovery, was just like, you're not free though you're trapped.

1017
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 2: I don't want to be trapped. And so I came

1018
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:40,440
Speaker 2: back to Melanie, was like.

1019
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 3: I love you, I'm not in any way stopping or

1020
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 3: my sobriety like, but I'm not going to these meetings

1021
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 3: and here's why. And I explained it to her and

1022
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:55,240
Speaker 3: I said, I was like, I can't do this. I said,

1023
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 3: I will be in recovery or celebrate or not celebrate recovery, sorry,

1024
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 3: redemption when that comes around the next opening. And I

1025
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:05,920
Speaker 3: did and and and with the buddy of ours that

1026
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 3: we talked about the beginning of the meeting like he

1027
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 3: was my one of my lead uh.

1028
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 2: And then I had another.

1029
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 3: And you know it, there was just this sense of like,

1030
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 3: and I think that's the part that I have been

1031
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 3: sensitive about and I've forgotten, h I've forgotten the fact

1032
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:31,760
Speaker 3: that what God has done in my story is show

1033
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 3: the radical power that He has to redeem to give

1034
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 3: freedom and the hope, like there's freedom, Like he can

1035
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 3: bring you freedom from this. You have to do a

1036
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 3: lot of work in it. You have to dig deep

1037
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:53,240
Speaker 3: into it, and that may mean that you do need

1038
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 3: to use a recovery program to start you because the

1039
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 3: biggest thing that I think you have to have is community,

1040
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 3: Like he says that in us, right, we're taught that,

1041
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:05,960
Speaker 3: like community is a big deal. You need to be

1042
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 3: able to talk about this two people, Like if you don't,

1043
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 3: you're not gonna You're gonna just kind of sit and

1044
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 3: and and all kinds of things are gonna run to

1045
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 3: your head, right, Like, you have to be able to

1046
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 3: talk through this.

1047
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 2: And that was a huge thing.

1048
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 3: There were a lot of people that suddenly were in

1049
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 3: place and that was kind of naturally like. And then

1050
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 3: I also sought some right like so like, uh, some

1051
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 3: people it was like, hey, we're gonna go have coffee.

1052
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 3: They sought me out and we did it. Others it

1053
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 3: was like, how are you doing? Just just through work,

1054
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 3: Like as I started the new job, it was just

1055
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 3: we would talk constantly and and then so there was

1056
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 3: some you know, like I said, just some natural and

1057
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 3: then just some that was like I saw it or

1058
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 3: others sought me, and not everybody has that, and so

1059
01:03:55,280 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 3: I do. I am very aware that my story is

1060
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 3: radical in what God's done and it's not the normal.

1061
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 2: So I don't want people to be discouraged.

1062
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 3: Or think, oh, well, you know, he just had this happen,

1063
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 3: and it's like I had this happened because God knew

1064
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 3: that over the next three four years of our lives

1065
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 3: we were going to be in a financial state that

1066
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 3: was so hard to get through.

1067
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 2: We had to have this. Like God walked us.

1068
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 3: Through four years where we faced bankruptcy and we had

1069
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 3: choices to make, and we chose to make the right

1070
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 3: choices that were hard because of God to not do

1071
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 3: bankruptcy but then still pay our debts and just double

1072
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 3: down on all this, and then He brought us through

1073
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:51,800
Speaker 3: another miracle of that. But we had to have that,

1074
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 3: Like my family needed this radical recovery for me because

1075
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 3: we were going to go really really deep and having

1076
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 3: to trust and rely on all of those around us

1077
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 3: to get through financial point. And I know you're you

1078
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 3: know your wife was was neumel at the time, and

1079
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 3: she's you know, hot like that. And there was a

1080
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 3: point where we were trying to figure out we're going

1081
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 3: to do and that was at the tail end, right,

1082
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 3: but through that right like we knew, you guys in

1083
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 3: that time when I was in the middle.

1084
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 1: Of all that, we'll be right back after this. So

1085
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 1: all of this, you know, is encouraging. And I think

1086
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 1: if the story ends here, it's it's a great story.

1087
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 1: But I think what's so interesting is the story doesn't

1088
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: end here. And what I mean by that is and

1089
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 1: this is the part that I think, to me is

1090
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:57,919
Speaker 1: even more important than initially getting sober and initially coming

1091
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:02,240
Speaker 1: back to Jesus, is all of this stuff you're saying

1092
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 1: is true, and it's still true despite the fact that

1093
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 1: you had to relapse. If I'm not if I'm if

1094
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 1: I'm remembering.

1095
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, yeah, And so I think I want to

1096
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 4: see five I was five years sober, okay, and so

1097
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 4: five years of never thinking about it, never yes, never

1098
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 4: having a desire And.

1099
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 1: This is important, okay, because I think there's people that

1100
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:27,960
Speaker 1: are listening to I'm listening to this. I'm not five

1101
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 1: years sober yet, right, And I think two things, Hey,

1102
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this, know that you can have

1103
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:38,960
Speaker 1: these radical transformations. You can come to this understanding, you

1104
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 1: can believe all this stuff right, And there can still

1105
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 1: be times that you get tripped up. There can still

1106
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 1: be lies, there can still be things that weave their

1107
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:48,880
Speaker 1: way in the Second thing I would say is, don't

1108
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 1: anyone listening to this I'm too you know, as we're

1109
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 1: recording this, I'm about two and a half years sober.

1110
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 1: It's like I also don't don't yes, but I don't

1111
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:01,919
Speaker 1: want to get prideful. I don't want to I don't

1112
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:05,640
Speaker 1: want to treat it like well, I'll never have this

1113
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:09,760
Speaker 1: desire yet Like maybe I will, though, right, And and

1114
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: and the moment that I get lax, the moment that

1115
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 1: I start maybe being kind of like, oh, I got this.

1116
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 1: So tell us your story, now, tell us what led

1117
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 1: to five years after five years sobriety?

1118
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 3: You going back it It was it was a struggle

1119
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 3: at that time. And I think I told you as

1120
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:33,480
Speaker 3: we talked a little bit like when I figured out

1121
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 3: later certain things that caused triggers, right, and later on

1122
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 3: I figured out more of them. And what I figured

1123
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 3: out was when it came to family, there was a

1124
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 3: shift in some of the family. I lost my grandfather

1125
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 3: and then lost my grandmother, and I lost my grandmother

1126
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:56,360
Speaker 3: in that in that year. Prior to that, I lost

1127
01:07:56,400 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 3: my grandfather and I wasn't that closed, but there was

1128
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 3: a lot of just bad family history of stuff right

1129
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 3: that I can't really get into.

1130
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:07,680
Speaker 2: On this, but.

1131
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:15,919
Speaker 3: It was one of those where I had this aversion.

1132
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:19,840
Speaker 3: It's probably a good way to say it. People telling

1133
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 3: me how I should be towards my family, my extended family,

1134
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 3: specifically my mother telling me how I should be towards

1135
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:34,720
Speaker 3: my extended family, that I should be sad because my

1136
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 3: grandfather this or that, and I barely knew them, Like

1137
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 3: I knew them, but I didn't knew them know them, right,

1138
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 3: Like when you started really thinking about like, Okay, I

1139
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 3: don't really handle death in the same way because when

1140
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 3: I was in high school, I lost three friends, three

1141
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 3: kids that I grew up with, all in crazy different

1142
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:56,519
Speaker 3: ways of death. Like we just kind of dealt with it,

1143
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:58,120
Speaker 3: you know. We had one hundred and thirty eight kids

1144
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 3: in our graduating class. So I need these kids my

1145
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:05,680
Speaker 3: entire life. I had had later on in life, I

1146
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 3: had had a cousin that committed suicide. So for me,

1147
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 3: death was just this thing that I had to struggle

1148
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:13,920
Speaker 3: with and get through. And so I just had this

1149
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 3: kind of jaded look at times, and it was like,

1150
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:19,439
Speaker 3: I'm sad, but I'm also not that sad, like I

1151
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 3: just there wasn't I wasn't emotional about it, but I

1152
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:25,679
Speaker 3: had built up this timer.

1153
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 2: I was tired of my mom.

1154
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 3: I was exhausted for my mom trying to say, well,

1155
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 3: you should do this, you should feel this, You should

1156
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:37,760
Speaker 3: call your brother because uh, you know, he doesn't have

1157
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 3: a dad, and and and you should do these things

1158
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 3: because you're the older brother and they don't have a father,

1159
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:45,160
Speaker 3: you know.

1160
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 2: And it's things like that that I dealt with as

1161
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 2: growing up.

1162
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:50,719
Speaker 3: And then later on in life it's more like you should,

1163
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:52,760
Speaker 3: you know, do this and that, or it was like

1164
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 3: my mom was like meddling, and so she was Actually

1165
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 3: we realized that she was the trigger, and that year

1166
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:00,679
Speaker 3: she moved up here to be closer to the and kids.

1167
01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 2: The problem was.

1168
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:08,120
Speaker 3: She was well not as much of an alcoholic in

1169
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:10,400
Speaker 3: the terms that you would think when you saw my

1170
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:15,759
Speaker 3: ex stepfather was as much of an alcoholic the book,

1171
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 3: and and and so.

1172
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:22,760
Speaker 2: Now we have this.

1173
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:28,799
Speaker 3: I'm still trying to honor my mother and my family

1174
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:35,600
Speaker 3: right as as we're called to, but my kids and

1175
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:40,600
Speaker 3: my wife come first, and trying to balance that is

1176
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:43,799
Speaker 3: a struggle that I think, honestly a lot of men have.

1177
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 2: Women do too, But I see, I feel I have

1178
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:48,599
Speaker 2: this feeling that.

1179
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,720
Speaker 3: Like I've seen it more with with the mother in

1180
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 3: law of the wife is the worst, right like, And

1181
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:56,439
Speaker 3: it's not always the case, because I have an amazing

1182
01:10:56,439 --> 01:10:59,599
Speaker 3: mother in law and in law parents. But yeah, from

1183
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 3: this side, coming from my side, my mom was is

1184
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:06,040
Speaker 3: just difficult, and.

1185
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 2: She brought with a lot of.

1186
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:17,280
Speaker 3: Emotions are triggered a lot of emotions in me that

1187
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 3: I kind of pushed away. Yeah yeah, and all of

1188
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 3: a sudden, I'm faced with having to handle and deal

1189
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 3: with someone that I don't want to deal.

1190
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 2: With, the situations that I don't want to deal with.

1191
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 2: My wife does not feel safe around my mother in

1192
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 2: law and.

1193
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:45,360
Speaker 3: Or sorry on my mother and her mother in law,

1194
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 3: and does not feel like our kids are safe. She's

1195
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 3: not a safe person emotionally, like just she would. You

1196
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 3: couldn't trust what was going to come out of her

1197
01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:59,679
Speaker 3: mouth right with the kids if we let them stay

1198
01:11:59,680 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 3: over night.

1199
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:01,880
Speaker 2: Couldn't trust that one she wouldn't drink.

1200
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:06,160
Speaker 3: And we also couldn't trust that the kids wouldn't be

1201
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:10,599
Speaker 3: watching something inappropriate they shouldn't be or you know, like

1202
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:15,280
Speaker 3: we're talking about something like you know, they watched the news.

1203
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:18,360
Speaker 3: We really just don't normally watch the news in general.

1204
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:19,880
Speaker 3: But she just had it on and there's a shooting

1205
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:23,960
Speaker 3: about this kid. And at this time, Vincent is I say,

1206
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:27,360
Speaker 3: I want to say, he's seven watching the news about

1207
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:31,800
Speaker 3: kid that got shot in the school. No, we talked

1208
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 3: to our kids, like we we we discussed these things,

1209
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:37,519
Speaker 3: but in a manner that we can let them ask questions.

1210
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:40,640
Speaker 2: And so she just would would bring this up.

1211
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 3: So it grew for a year where about a half

1212
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:47,759
Speaker 3: a year this was going on, and that's when things

1213
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:50,599
Speaker 3: started set in. I just I didn't I didn't give

1214
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:53,360
Speaker 3: it any attention. I didn't bring it to God. I

1215
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 3: was I got frideful. I was like, I'm never gonna

1216
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 3: drink it yet.

1217
01:12:57,400 --> 01:13:02,280
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden it looked really good. Mmmm.

1218
01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:08,800
Speaker 3: The taste. I remembered all of it. You don't forget that, no,

1219
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:13,720
Speaker 3: and it looked really good. And I was like, you

1220
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:16,360
Speaker 3: know what, it's been five years. Fine, and I did.

1221
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 3: And I then struggled for a year of.

1222
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 1: This what is it is that? Like you're like, hey,

1223
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:24,920
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go down to the gas station, like.

1224
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:27,680
Speaker 2: We just go get a gas station. I hit it.

1225
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:29,519
Speaker 2: I couldn't. I couldn't face Mel.

1226
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:33,720
Speaker 3: She would catch it and we would have a conversation,

1227
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:35,920
Speaker 3: and then a couple of weeks later, I'd probably do

1228
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:38,960
Speaker 3: it again. Would probably be a good cadence of that

1229
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,880
Speaker 3: right the months, like once a month or something like that.

1230
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:47,680
Speaker 2: And we realized, like she made up a point where

1231
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:49,080
Speaker 2: I was talking about she made a good point.

1232
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 3: She's like we realized that it was any of the

1233
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 3: times around the time that either my mom was coming

1234
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 3: over or we were having to discuss and deal with that,

1235
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 3: any of those times I had to then be very

1236
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 3: uncom I was very uncomfortable because you know, it's like

1237
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:06,640
Speaker 3: now I'm in this rock and a hard place, like

1238
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:10,479
Speaker 3: my wife comes first, my kids come first, but have

1239
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:12,920
Speaker 3: a mom, and like how do I balance those? And

1240
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:15,640
Speaker 3: they're butting heads, so that doesn't help and it's like

1241
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:18,439
Speaker 3: kind of be a peacekeeper. I don't know how to

1242
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:18,960
Speaker 3: do it.

1243
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:27,320
Speaker 2: You know, and and and so and then around. Yeah,

1244
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 2: I mean it was a little over a year.

1245
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 3: I think that went on if we're on it, like

1246
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:32,160
Speaker 3: if we're talked about it, because when we were talking

1247
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 3: it was maybe. Yeah, I can't remember whichyear was, but

1248
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:40,400
Speaker 3: it was five years sober. And then two years ago

1249
01:14:40,439 --> 01:14:44,560
Speaker 3: we went to Montana and we got to take the

1250
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:47,479
Speaker 3: kids up where I grew. So my wife go see

1251
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 3: my sister and so wife and the kids. We all

1252
01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 3: did a road trips and I stopped drinking right before then,

1253
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 3: and I didn't Is it as.

1254
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:02,600
Speaker 1: Bad as it had? Like did it return? No?

1255
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 3: No, it never got as bad like it never I

1256
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:07,000
Speaker 3: mean it was it was bad like it would be

1257
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 3: like because I was sneaking it right like it was

1258
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 3: bad in that sense. No, because when I was at

1259
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:16,800
Speaker 3: the when it was bad, like back then, I can

1260
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:21,160
Speaker 3: go through a leader of vodka a day. This would

1261
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:27,240
Speaker 3: be high alcohol, beards and something to just that I

1262
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:30,760
Speaker 3: could hide enough. And yeah, but not hide as well

1263
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 3: as I thought.

1264
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:34,800
Speaker 1: You know, right, okay, but you're about to go on

1265
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:38,440
Speaker 1: this road trip. Yeah you quit? What was that conversation

1266
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 1: you had with yourself.

1267
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 3: I well, I say it was a couple of good things.

1268
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:46,559
Speaker 3: So one was I'm going to go see my sister.

1269
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:47,599
Speaker 3: We're going on this road trip.

1270
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:48,080
Speaker 2: Like one.

1271
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:51,639
Speaker 3: I were driving constantly I can't be I can't do this,

1272
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:56,040
Speaker 3: but also I don't want to.

1273
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 2: I am tired of this struggle, and like, why can't

1274
01:15:58,320 --> 01:15:58,960
Speaker 2: I just stop?

1275
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 3: I need just stop, like and yet I couldn't, and

1276
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:05,240
Speaker 3: I prayed and prayed at that point and did it.

1277
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:06,719
Speaker 2: I was like, why am I being?

1278
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:09,280
Speaker 3: I was just prideful, and then I got myself caught

1279
01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:12,920
Speaker 3: and so I turned and said I can't do this.

1280
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 2: I can't keep doing this.

1281
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:19,960
Speaker 3: And it was a step at that point that was

1282
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:21,960
Speaker 3: one day at a time. That became a one day

1283
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 3: at a time for those two weeks. But for those

1284
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 3: two weeks I was around my family the entire time.

1285
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:33,559
Speaker 3: There was no like hidden place, you know, hidden times

1286
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:35,760
Speaker 3: where I was off by myself. But for those two

1287
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:38,000
Speaker 3: weeks I kind of got clarity to just be with

1288
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 3: my family. I was also on vacation, so it was

1289
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:43,080
Speaker 3: two weeks of vacation of just no other stresses. I

1290
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 3: think it was a huge thing to just be able

1291
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:46,840
Speaker 3: to like step back and be like, no, we're not

1292
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:50,559
Speaker 3: going to do this. And then when I came home.

1293
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 3: When I came home at this time was kind of

1294
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:56,960
Speaker 3: the peak where mel and I had been talking and

1295
01:16:56,960 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 3: I had also been discussed with my sister, but I

1296
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:01,720
Speaker 3: had to have the conversation with my mother. She had

1297
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:04,120
Speaker 3: also made me very angry over the last few months

1298
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:06,960
Speaker 3: of things that she had done to my sister's family

1299
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:08,960
Speaker 3: and other things that I was struggling with, and I

1300
01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:12,599
Speaker 3: didn't know how to talk to her about it. So

1301
01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:13,920
Speaker 3: we got home and I was like, I have to

1302
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:16,599
Speaker 3: have this conversation. So I called her off, and I

1303
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:19,760
Speaker 3: remember I told no, and this was this was where

1304
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:21,720
Speaker 3: I knew there was a shift to and no new too.

1305
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 3: Before I called I looked at her and I just said,

1306
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:30,000
Speaker 3: I want a drink right now, more than anything, because

1307
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:34,640
Speaker 3: I don't want to have this conversation. I want to

1308
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:39,000
Speaker 3: run from this confrontation. This conversation is pure confrontation. And

1309
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:43,280
Speaker 3: I know I already knew. I knew how this conversation

1310
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 3: was going to go. It wasn't going to be good.

1311
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:49,800
Speaker 3: I knew where we were leading down this path, and

1312
01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:51,000
Speaker 3: I knew it was the other end, I was like,

1313
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 3: I don't want to have to have this conversation.

1314
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:54,640
Speaker 2: I don't want to have this confrontation.

1315
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 3: And it was the first time I looked at her

1316
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:01,439
Speaker 3: and I just said it, and she said thank you,

1317
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:04,360
Speaker 3: because for the first time I was like openly honest

1318
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:07,519
Speaker 3: to her. I'm like, I don't want to do this,

1319
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:10,320
Speaker 3: and this is why, and this is how we realize

1320
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:13,680
Speaker 3: like where it really stems from. This is probably that

1321
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:15,640
Speaker 3: was the most enlightening thing to me of just like

1322
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:18,360
Speaker 3: I want to do this because this just yeah.

1323
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:24,080
Speaker 1: And you know, doctor Alison Cook talks about in her

1324
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:29,360
Speaker 1: book you know, which I quote in Mind about naming things,

1325
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:34,040
Speaker 1: and there is such power in naming things. And I

1326
01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:36,439
Speaker 1: think one of the lies of the enemy is that

1327
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:40,240
Speaker 1: you can't talk about that. You can't say I need

1328
01:18:40,280 --> 01:18:43,400
Speaker 1: a drink or I want to drink, or this is

1329
01:18:43,479 --> 01:18:46,920
Speaker 1: hard or this is you know, in those things. And

1330
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 1: especially as Ben, I think we're taught, you know, don't

1331
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:54,960
Speaker 1: be vulnerable, don't be open, and so it's it's so like, again,

1332
01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:57,400
Speaker 1: one of those things I don't want to go without

1333
01:18:57,400 --> 01:19:01,559
Speaker 1: pointing out is that in that moment, you calling that

1334
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:05,200
Speaker 1: out I think is so key and so important and

1335
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:07,600
Speaker 1: it's and look what it did. It brought you and

1336
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:10,559
Speaker 1: your wife closer. It also shed a light on it,

1337
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:13,880
Speaker 1: and instead of it festering in the darkness, it's exposed

1338
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:15,719
Speaker 1: where it can be worked on. Right, I think that's.

1339
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it is and I honestly that

1340
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:21,360
Speaker 3: was that was it? Right? Like that was when I

1341
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:29,840
Speaker 3: confessed it openly. That was kind of the final like okay, and.

1342
01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:31,680
Speaker 1: Did you then wanted to tell her like.

1343
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:32,960
Speaker 2: I made the conversation.

1344
01:19:33,200 --> 01:19:37,280
Speaker 3: No, I made that phone call ten minutes later, and

1345
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:40,720
Speaker 3: she sat outside with me and just listened and was

1346
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:44,000
Speaker 3: just there while I have that conversation. And it didn't

1347
01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:46,000
Speaker 3: go well, and it wasn't the comment it was. It

1348
01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:48,120
Speaker 3: went out the way I thought it was. I tried,

1349
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:51,920
Speaker 3: you know, calm, but it was. And then with you,

1350
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 3: we are you were not allowed around my kids or

1351
01:19:56,520 --> 01:20:01,880
Speaker 3: my wife because you are Yeah, you're not a safe,

1352
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:06,800
Speaker 3: healthy person for my kids to be around. And that's

1353
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:09,840
Speaker 3: hard to say, Like I had to do this, and

1354
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:13,080
Speaker 3: this was because I mean we pray, like I swear,

1355
01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:15,880
Speaker 3: it was turmoil, Like it was the hardest thing, one

1356
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 3: of the hardest things I've had to do. And it

1357
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:21,719
Speaker 3: was and we still deal with it daily, like not daily,

1358
01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:23,800
Speaker 3: but you know we still deal with it on a

1359
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 3: month to month We tweet basis of just we she's

1360
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:31,639
Speaker 3: in the prayers, she's on our mind, like will things change?

1361
01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:33,360
Speaker 3: We pray that she does.

1362
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 1: Have you cut? Have you kind of cut that relationship off?

1363
01:20:37,439 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 2: We did.

1364
01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:40,479
Speaker 3: So it was a full cut of like in this

1365
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:45,280
Speaker 3: and and and we did. I made that statement to her,

1366
01:20:45,320 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 3: and I was like, you do not. It's like you

1367
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:52,400
Speaker 3: don't own up to any of the stuff that you've done,

1368
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:54,880
Speaker 3: anything that I've just said and laid out to you

1369
01:20:55,000 --> 01:20:58,160
Speaker 3: in this conversation, any of the stuff that's in our past,

1370
01:20:58,200 --> 01:20:59,800
Speaker 3: Like you won't own to any of that.

1371
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:03,439
Speaker 2: You never own up to it.

1372
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:08,760
Speaker 3: And and I remember I said that, and it was

1373
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:13,559
Speaker 3: just this I do too, was her statement. And she

1374
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:16,840
Speaker 3: just had anger towards me this entire time during the conversation,

1375
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:20,439
Speaker 3: like I was the one that was wrong. And I

1376
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 3: was like, if we can't, if there can't be like reconciliation,

1377
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:32,400
Speaker 3: like not reconciliation, if there can't be like repentance of

1378
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:35,400
Speaker 3: any of that, any of the stuffs that I laid out, like,

1379
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:41,479
Speaker 3: then there's not any any change. If there's not any change,

1380
01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:44,120
Speaker 3: you can't be around like I can't have that, like

1381
01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:48,880
Speaker 3: my kids need to be safe, and so I had

1382
01:21:48,880 --> 01:21:52,040
Speaker 3: to make that and I was like and and we

1383
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:54,840
Speaker 3: said it almost in that we said it was the

1384
01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:57,920
Speaker 3: same basis of if.

1385
01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 2: If we.

1386
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:05,000
Speaker 3: If I, if I do this, I pray that you'll

1387
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:07,799
Speaker 3: turn and realize like, oh, you know, like it's almost

1388
01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:11,160
Speaker 3: like that church discipline where it's like we cut off

1389
01:22:11,160 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 3: and it's not to cut off, it's too so that

1390
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:15,920
Speaker 3: you would see what you've lost and turned back to

1391
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:17,759
Speaker 3: it kind of thing and where we're like, we want

1392
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:20,240
Speaker 3: we didn't want to do this, but it's like, my

1393
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:23,160
Speaker 3: kids need to be safe, but you need to change.

1394
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:27,599
Speaker 3: Until you can change, your grandkids are not you know,

1395
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:31,160
Speaker 3: they're going to be kept safe. And we just watched

1396
01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:33,920
Speaker 3: it double down like she doubled down, and so we've

1397
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:36,320
Speaker 3: been praying a lot, like she's constantly that's fair, but

1398
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:37,759
Speaker 3: it's just like we don't see.

1399
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:40,920
Speaker 1: A change there, and I think those are those are

1400
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:42,599
Speaker 1: you know. It's another example of some of those hot

1401
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:47,600
Speaker 1: converse or hard decisions that you have to make regarding

1402
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:50,719
Speaker 1: like how am I you know, how am I going

1403
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:53,599
Speaker 1: to for you protect your family right?

1404
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:54,040
Speaker 2: Right?

1405
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:57,320
Speaker 1: Have hard conversations, not drink them away. I mean I've

1406
01:22:57,320 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 1: had hard conversations with my family that I've been like,

1407
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:01,920
Speaker 1: you know, when I was drinking, I was like, yeah,

1408
01:23:01,920 --> 01:23:04,639
Speaker 1: I needed and I definitely need to get a little

1409
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:09,240
Speaker 1: a little buzzed going into this one. You know, I

1410
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:13,720
Speaker 1: get that. Yeah, where would you say you are?

1411
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:14,120
Speaker 2: Now?

1412
01:23:14,280 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 1: So that was how many years ago?

1413
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:18,120
Speaker 3: Uh?

1414
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:20,639
Speaker 2: It was fruslating too because I meant eight years.

1415
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:24,040
Speaker 3: So we did about a year I would say probably

1416
01:23:24,040 --> 01:23:28,240
Speaker 3: thirteen months where to go because it was yeah, so

1417
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:32,040
Speaker 3: I mean it was like just before or just after

1418
01:23:32,160 --> 01:23:34,360
Speaker 3: five years, sobriety.

1419
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:36,960
Speaker 2: Then went for about a Yeah, it.

1420
01:23:37,240 --> 01:23:40,599
Speaker 3: Took a detour, remember, took a detour, right, Yeah, My

1421
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 3: wife was very that was so great in this one

1422
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:48,360
Speaker 3: thing that she That was gonna be my next question.

1423
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:52,439
Speaker 1: What was her reaction to the relapse period, because before

1424
01:23:52,479 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 1: that she was like.

1425
01:23:55,439 --> 01:23:58,880
Speaker 3: An ultimatum, Yeah, so so and and and thank thank

1426
01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:01,800
Speaker 3: god that five years years of it he interceded and

1427
01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:08,880
Speaker 3: and kept me right in this amazing position of of

1428
01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 3: and just protected me right. But she also walked into

1429
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:20,599
Speaker 3: that with doing her own research and doing her own

1430
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:24,439
Speaker 3: uh talking with people and and and and stuff, and

1431
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:25,720
Speaker 3: in her time right.

1432
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:27,120
Speaker 2: And and.

1433
01:24:28,520 --> 01:24:32,200
Speaker 3: One of the things that she said, she's like, this

1434
01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:36,719
Speaker 3: was going to happen, Like she just prepared her heart

1435
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:39,679
Speaker 3: knowing that at some point this probably was going to happen.

1436
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:45,479
Speaker 1: Because by the way, people listening to that, don't use

1437
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:47,360
Speaker 1: that as as.

1438
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:50,120
Speaker 3: It's not excuse, but it was that's for the wife

1439
01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:54,160
Speaker 3: or the spouse of the alcoholic. That's that's not for Yeah,

1440
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:56,640
Speaker 3: it's not for you as the alcoholic to deal it.

1441
01:24:56,680 --> 01:25:01,439
Speaker 3: That is for your your spouse to prepare, right and

1442
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:05,840
Speaker 3: and and no, we didn't want it to happen, absolutely not. Yeah,

1443
01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:09,720
Speaker 3: but it was that let's be realistic and let's not be.

1444
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:13,639
Speaker 2: Shot uh shocked.

1445
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:16,479
Speaker 3: And what's the other one sitting when you're what's determined

1446
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:18,599
Speaker 3: to think when you're sitting there and you just kind

1447
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:24,080
Speaker 3: of not passive, but you're you're complacent, Yes, thank you,

1448
01:25:24,080 --> 01:25:25,280
Speaker 3: complacent of the perfect time?

1449
01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:27,360
Speaker 2: Right, Just don't be complacent, like be prepared.

1450
01:25:27,439 --> 01:25:29,360
Speaker 3: And so what it allowed her to do when she

1451
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:31,679
Speaker 3: did that was actually come to me with love and grace.

1452
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:35,479
Speaker 3: And I still was struggling with being honest and that time,

1453
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 3: so that took a lot longer. And when I got

1454
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:41,640
Speaker 3: to that point at that end, for that conversation and

1455
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:44,040
Speaker 3: that time of clarity that i'd had right before that

1456
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:47,360
Speaker 3: to then turning around and saying and looking at her

1457
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:49,320
Speaker 3: in the eyes and saying, all I want to do

1458
01:25:49,439 --> 01:25:53,280
Speaker 3: right now is have a to ease the tension before

1459
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:53,880
Speaker 3: I go into this.

1460
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:58,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, was me bringing the light and the honesty to it.

1461
01:26:00,120 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 3: And that was huge, right, And that was what she

1462
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 3: had been wanting me to do the entire time and

1463
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:10,559
Speaker 3: I had to learn that. But so through that time

1464
01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:13,519
Speaker 3: she would be upset, but she had grace and love

1465
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:16,160
Speaker 3: and we had already walked through so many years of

1466
01:26:16,240 --> 01:26:20,200
Speaker 3: marriage and our marriage had been redeemed. Yeah, so this

1467
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:24,960
Speaker 3: was that part of you can't keep doing this, but

1468
01:26:25,080 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 3: I love you and do it, and just kept hitting

1469
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:29,360
Speaker 3: me with that, you can't keep doing this, but I

1470
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:30,400
Speaker 3: love you and we're doing that.

1471
01:26:30,760 --> 01:26:32,479
Speaker 2: And we got through it.

1472
01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:34,479
Speaker 3: And it was a pain in the butt and it

1473
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:37,880
Speaker 3: sucked because it didn't need to be that hard. But

1474
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:39,559
Speaker 3: at the same time, I think it did because I

1475
01:26:39,600 --> 01:26:43,439
Speaker 3: needed to learn that, you know, I needed to get

1476
01:26:43,479 --> 01:26:45,960
Speaker 3: to the point where I was being able to just

1477
01:26:46,040 --> 01:26:49,280
Speaker 3: be fully honest in that. And that was the one

1478
01:26:49,320 --> 01:26:54,320
Speaker 3: part where in the time before it happened, there was

1479
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:55,360
Speaker 3: no hiding that one.

1480
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:59,120
Speaker 2: It was radically just ripped open, you know.

1481
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:04,600
Speaker 3: And in this time it was I actually have a

1482
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:07,720
Speaker 3: desire and I'm going to confess it before and being

1483
01:27:07,760 --> 01:27:10,160
Speaker 3: able to get to that point was something that I

1484
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:12,479
Speaker 3: didn't And I think that's another thing. I didn't have

1485
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:15,920
Speaker 3: that at the beginning. So that's something I didn't learn

1486
01:27:16,040 --> 01:27:20,720
Speaker 3: in my initial sobriety because I didn't have that, Like

1487
01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:22,680
Speaker 3: it was this thing where it was like, Okay, I

1488
01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:25,360
Speaker 3: need this because we're walking through all this and there's

1489
01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:30,479
Speaker 3: just so much there. But now life was good and

1490
01:27:30,520 --> 01:27:34,000
Speaker 3: I did have We were just moved in to the

1491
01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:39,440
Speaker 3: new house. Things were going really well for us financially,

1492
01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:41,679
Speaker 3: things had finally turned and stuff.

1493
01:27:42,439 --> 01:27:43,720
Speaker 2: And so now.

1494
01:27:46,240 --> 01:27:48,680
Speaker 3: I had a missing piece where I wasn't able to

1495
01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:52,080
Speaker 3: look at my wife and honestly say I want to drink.

1496
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:56,599
Speaker 3: And I learned that, and I don't think I realized that,

1497
01:27:56,720 --> 01:27:59,760
Speaker 3: like until right now talking about that, like that part

1498
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:02,360
Speaker 3: I ever had, right and so to walk.

1499
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:02,840
Speaker 2: Through that.

1500
01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:09,800
Speaker 3: And and and then after that and after having that conversation,

1501
01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:13,760
Speaker 3: I didn't I didn't have the desires i'd gone through

1502
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:17,000
Speaker 3: that time and I haven't. I honestly have not thought

1503
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:21,320
Speaker 3: about it in a year again, and not to be

1504
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:23,680
Speaker 3: prideful anymore, right, not to allow that to get to

1505
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:26,920
Speaker 3: the pride, but being thankful talking about it when I can,

1506
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:30,320
Speaker 3: and just being thankful looking at mel at night and

1507
01:28:30,400 --> 01:28:33,400
Speaker 3: just be look at our house and we just sit

1508
01:28:33,479 --> 01:28:36,280
Speaker 3: on the coups and just are thankful for what we

1509
01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:40,439
Speaker 3: have and we always try to, you know, with Dob

1510
01:28:40,680 --> 01:28:43,200
Speaker 3: and apart from that, we know what we could have

1511
01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:47,000
Speaker 3: or not have or not have exactly exactly, and we

1512
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:49,760
Speaker 3: see it every day now and so we're really intentional,

1513
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:51,160
Speaker 3: I think on that side of the have.

1514
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:53,599
Speaker 2: That right of Yeah.

1515
01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:58,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, what do you you know, people who are

1516
01:28:58,920 --> 01:29:01,040
Speaker 1: as we kind of bring this to is here, people

1517
01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:04,120
Speaker 1: who are listening to this and are resonating with your story,

1518
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:07,880
Speaker 1: what do you feel like is the lesson of your story? Like,

1519
01:29:07,920 --> 01:29:10,719
Speaker 1: what do you what are you hoping that people who

1520
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:15,040
Speaker 1: are find an affinity towards you? What do you hope

1521
01:29:15,080 --> 01:29:17,840
Speaker 1: that they take from from your story? What are those lessons?

1522
01:29:18,240 --> 01:29:23,519
Speaker 3: I think the biggest one is the hope that we

1523
01:29:23,680 --> 01:29:28,200
Speaker 3: have freedom in Christ. Yeah, the number one is the

1524
01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:32,439
Speaker 3: freedom that we can find in Christ. But that that

1525
01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:37,040
Speaker 3: freedom means giving it to Christ, like giving it to God,

1526
01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:40,600
Speaker 3: trusting in him and putting our faith in him to

1527
01:29:41,720 --> 01:29:44,240
Speaker 3: and and relying on Him to.

1528
01:29:44,280 --> 01:29:45,120
Speaker 2: Walk through that.

1529
01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:48,280
Speaker 3: Not just be a part of it, but like she

1530
01:29:48,680 --> 01:29:52,640
Speaker 3: like lead hit like leads you through that, right if

1531
01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:56,720
Speaker 3: if I didn't have if I didn't have God, and

1532
01:29:56,760 --> 01:30:00,160
Speaker 3: in any part of my story, And I see the

1533
01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:02,800
Speaker 3: trail like I look back and I see the path

1534
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:06,120
Speaker 3: that He wove, you know, like I see it clearly

1535
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:07,920
Speaker 3: of just he did this here and he put this

1536
01:30:07,960 --> 01:30:09,760
Speaker 3: in this place in this like I see the map.

1537
01:30:10,600 --> 01:30:12,800
Speaker 3: I've always been able to see the map in that sense.

1538
01:30:12,840 --> 01:30:17,479
Speaker 3: And and for this, give it to him and he

1539
01:30:17,560 --> 01:30:21,679
Speaker 3: will take it. Give And that's what he talks about

1540
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:24,200
Speaker 3: when he talks about like give me your burdens, like

1541
01:30:25,240 --> 01:30:30,680
Speaker 3: you know, that's like I think that's just that's just

1542
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:34,160
Speaker 3: a beautiful picture of it, like you you know. And

1543
01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:36,240
Speaker 3: the other thing is like you have to have community, right,

1544
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:38,720
Speaker 3: like we talked about that, but communities says that like

1545
01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:43,200
Speaker 3: you have you can't do this alone. But it is

1546
01:30:43,240 --> 01:30:47,080
Speaker 3: that there is hope and freedom in Christ in this

1547
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:51,439
Speaker 3: yah you don't have to if you go. And I

1548
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:55,840
Speaker 3: think that's the one going back, right, Like I have

1549
01:30:56,040 --> 01:30:59,040
Speaker 3: been I told you this, I've been hesitant as in

1550
01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:02,519
Speaker 3: the last few years to talk about it more like openly. Right,

1551
01:31:02,640 --> 01:31:04,320
Speaker 3: it was a lot more in the church when we

1552
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:07,760
Speaker 3: were when I was at at the old church and

1553
01:31:08,120 --> 01:31:10,479
Speaker 3: we were doing freedom groups, and I was helping to

1554
01:31:10,560 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 3: lead in that, and I was invested in that because

1555
01:31:12,200 --> 01:31:13,880
Speaker 3: now you know, I'm leading guys. At that time, we

1556
01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:16,639
Speaker 3: were talking about it and and at the time, we're

1557
01:31:16,640 --> 01:31:19,840
Speaker 3: talking about how do you find the root cause of

1558
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:22,760
Speaker 3: your sins so that you can find freedom of it?

1559
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:23,799
Speaker 2: Right, that was a program.

1560
01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:28,760
Speaker 3: And and when we changed churches and and albeit it

1561
01:31:28,840 --> 01:31:32,599
Speaker 3: was a blessing for us, take a breather, we weren't

1562
01:31:32,680 --> 01:31:36,200
Speaker 3: leading anything. We were we were just being reef, you know,

1563
01:31:36,280 --> 01:31:41,040
Speaker 3: refreshed and everything. I found that I didn't have the

1564
01:31:41,080 --> 01:31:43,680
Speaker 3: people to talk to about it, and there wasn't the

1565
01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:46,599
Speaker 3: platform yet, right, there wasn't anything there. And and then

1566
01:31:46,640 --> 01:31:48,120
Speaker 3: I remember I was in a Bible study and a

1567
01:31:48,120 --> 01:31:52,000
Speaker 3: guy stood up and he was like, I'm two years sober,

1568
01:31:54,720 --> 01:31:57,160
Speaker 3: and it was very the the I'm in my meeting

1569
01:31:57,360 --> 01:31:59,280
Speaker 3: still I'm doing these things and I have all that,

1570
01:32:00,680 --> 01:32:03,919
Speaker 3: and I just said congrats, and I didn't say anything.

1571
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:09,200
Speaker 2: And I think I got to a part.

1572
01:32:09,479 --> 01:32:11,800
Speaker 3: Honestly, I found where It's like I didn't really know

1573
01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:18,360
Speaker 3: how to address that. I lost sight that my story means,

1574
01:32:18,920 --> 01:32:22,160
Speaker 3: like the biggest thing is the power of God in

1575
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:26,639
Speaker 3: what he can do and will do in your story,

1576
01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:29,840
Speaker 3: Like what he can do. My story is not going

1577
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:33,599
Speaker 3: to be everybody's story. Absolutely not, Like we're never saying that.

1578
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:35,720
Speaker 3: We're not saying like if you just pray to God

1579
01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:37,280
Speaker 3: and give it to him, that that's how he's gonna

1580
01:32:37,320 --> 01:32:37,680
Speaker 3: take it.

1581
01:32:38,439 --> 01:32:39,400
Speaker 2: My story.

1582
01:32:40,520 --> 01:32:44,800
Speaker 3: Was a radical transformation in this way, specifically because of

1583
01:32:44,920 --> 01:32:50,000
Speaker 3: other situations. I believe right like what he was doing

1584
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:54,400
Speaker 3: was not just getting the alcohol. He was redeeming our marriage,

1585
01:32:54,640 --> 01:32:58,840
Speaker 3: making a redemptive story and taking us through a financial

1586
01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:03,280
Speaker 3: hardship that then we can turn around and love on

1587
01:33:03,640 --> 01:33:07,240
Speaker 3: and support families in the future that are going through

1588
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:10,599
Speaker 3: different various things. Now we're equipped to say and speak

1589
01:33:10,600 --> 01:33:13,200
Speaker 3: into some of those and love on those people and

1590
01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:19,200
Speaker 3: just walk beside them. And that's what, you know, what

1591
01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:21,559
Speaker 3: what I need to do, what we need to do more,

1592
01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:24,479
Speaker 3: and what we're raying about lately. Right, That's what it's

1593
01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:31,160
Speaker 3: been on our heart now. But the hope is they're regardless, and.

1594
01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:33,360
Speaker 1: I think you know, it's a good place to kind

1595
01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:39,080
Speaker 1: of land because you know, when you talk about your

1596
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:43,360
Speaker 1: story and this is you know, maybe you kind of

1597
01:33:43,360 --> 01:33:48,360
Speaker 1: shielded it up till recently. Is I think that's exactly

1598
01:33:48,439 --> 01:33:52,120
Speaker 1: what the devil wants, right, and he wants us to

1599
01:33:52,200 --> 01:33:56,000
Speaker 1: not tell our stories. And I think especially stories that

1600
01:33:56,120 --> 01:34:00,080
Speaker 1: point to Jesus. And there's so much about your story

1601
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:02,760
Speaker 1: that I love, right, I love that you you you

1602
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:06,640
Speaker 1: talk about a radical transformation that then includes relapse. I

1603
01:34:06,640 --> 01:34:10,320
Speaker 1: don't know why. It just for me, it's so real,

1604
01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:15,800
Speaker 1: it's so sanctification is messy and even and and I

1605
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:20,880
Speaker 1: think there are some people who would have the uh,

1606
01:34:21,439 --> 01:34:25,120
Speaker 1: the temptation to say, well was I really radically transformed?

1607
01:34:25,120 --> 01:34:28,360
Speaker 1: By No, you were right. But there continues to be

1608
01:34:28,479 --> 01:34:31,479
Speaker 1: those parts of ourselves that we wall off, that we

1609
01:34:31,760 --> 01:34:34,400
Speaker 1: that we don't give to Jesus. And we find new

1610
01:34:34,439 --> 01:34:36,680
Speaker 1: parts of ourselves. Just when we think we've got all

1611
01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:39,040
Speaker 1: those other those parts, you know, giving over Jesus and

1612
01:34:39,080 --> 01:34:41,680
Speaker 1: we have, we find new parts, right and you and

1613
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:46,320
Speaker 1: those new parts became clear and evident to you. And

1614
01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:50,360
Speaker 1: and old habits die hard, and we have these habits

1615
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:53,040
Speaker 1: of escape, and we treat them and we go for

1616
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:55,960
Speaker 1: the easy fix, right, And so, like I said, there's

1617
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:58,840
Speaker 1: so much of your story that that I love and

1618
01:34:58,880 --> 01:35:00,559
Speaker 1: I just want to I I just want to thank

1619
01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:02,840
Speaker 1: you for sharing it, you know, encourage you to have

1620
01:35:03,160 --> 01:35:07,559
Speaker 1: continue that boldness in talking about it, man, and just

1621
01:35:07,680 --> 01:35:09,519
Speaker 1: really just really appreciate you.

1622
01:35:09,640 --> 01:35:11,639
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you. Man.

1623
01:35:11,800 --> 01:35:16,720
Speaker 3: I've been encouraged as as equally by you in what

1624
01:35:16,720 --> 01:35:21,479
Speaker 3: you're doing, cause you gave me the concourage to burw

1625
01:35:21,560 --> 01:35:23,040
Speaker 3: back up and look at it somebody like, wait, why

1626
01:35:23,040 --> 01:35:24,800
Speaker 3: don't we we're not doing anything with us right now,

1627
01:35:25,479 --> 01:35:27,360
Speaker 3: and then to start looking inwards and being like what

1628
01:35:27,400 --> 01:35:30,559
Speaker 3: am I doing? Like, you know, we're doing a lot

1629
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:32,559
Speaker 3: of good things, and our focus is on our kids,

1630
01:35:33,200 --> 01:35:36,479
Speaker 3: but that's I mean, we have this gift. There's that

1631
01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:39,599
Speaker 3: part of me that's like there's more, Yeah, but we

1632
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:41,640
Speaker 3: need to ask and some mel and and and I

1633
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:43,800
Speaker 3: are both we're in I think we're both equally in

1634
01:35:43,800 --> 01:35:46,479
Speaker 3: that area where we're just like, Wow, I'm encouraged. I

1635
01:35:46,479 --> 01:35:49,080
Speaker 3: think she reached out to you on a comment about

1636
01:35:49,080 --> 01:35:51,599
Speaker 3: something and she was like she's excited to the book

1637
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:52,040
Speaker 3: to come out.

1638
01:35:52,120 --> 01:35:53,400
Speaker 2: She's going to try and take it out of the

1639
01:35:53,400 --> 01:35:54,759
Speaker 2: mailbox before I can get.

1640
01:35:54,600 --> 01:35:57,439
Speaker 3: To it right, like I've got got it dy, And

1641
01:35:57,520 --> 01:35:59,719
Speaker 3: she read your other book right, and that's been huge

1642
01:35:59,720 --> 01:36:04,320
Speaker 3: for her, sure, And so going through all that, it's

1643
01:36:04,560 --> 01:36:07,640
Speaker 3: just we just have been talking a lot more of

1644
01:36:07,760 --> 01:36:11,280
Speaker 3: how can we use these things to encourage others? And

1645
01:36:11,360 --> 01:36:14,479
Speaker 3: how can we where can God use us? Like we

1646
01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:18,280
Speaker 3: know where in the sense of what area right, but

1647
01:36:18,439 --> 01:36:20,200
Speaker 3: where is He going to use us?

1648
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:21,679
Speaker 2: When is He going to use us?

1649
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:24,479
Speaker 3: And are we equipped or are we not asking the

1650
01:36:24,560 --> 01:36:28,040
Speaker 3: right questions yet to get to that point. Yeah, So

1651
01:36:29,240 --> 01:36:33,200
Speaker 3: it's been a great encouragement and just to save this right,

1652
01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:35,160
Speaker 3: like you spurred me back on to be like, hey,

1653
01:36:35,160 --> 01:36:36,920
Speaker 3: what have I been doing these last years? Like there's

1654
01:36:36,960 --> 01:36:39,840
Speaker 3: a lot, We're busy. It's been great and we've been

1655
01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:42,360
Speaker 3: in church and been healthy and doing a lot, but

1656
01:36:42,680 --> 01:36:46,240
Speaker 3: there's more, yeah, you know, and to forget and be

1657
01:36:46,360 --> 01:36:51,000
Speaker 3: like what am I doing? And told the story you know,

1658
01:36:51,120 --> 01:36:55,880
Speaker 3: it's like like I've told little bits and to my

1659
01:36:55,880 --> 01:36:59,880
Speaker 3: community group leader. It was also pastor of the church.

1660
01:37:00,160 --> 01:37:04,920
Speaker 3: He's he knows he and I have taught, but there's

1661
01:37:04,960 --> 01:37:08,479
Speaker 3: so much, you know, and and it just it can

1662
01:37:08,520 --> 01:37:10,519
Speaker 3: be so encouraging and I know that, and yet I

1663
01:37:10,560 --> 01:37:15,040
Speaker 3: have I have allowed it to be quiet and that's

1664
01:37:15,160 --> 01:37:15,799
Speaker 3: not okay.

1665
01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:19,240
Speaker 1: Well, and hopefully in people hearing that will use that

1666
01:37:19,400 --> 01:37:21,479
Speaker 1: as an encouragement. You know, maybe you're listening to this

1667
01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:24,680
Speaker 1: podcast and you are someone who is you know, in recovery,

1668
01:37:25,479 --> 01:37:29,160
Speaker 1: and and you know, I want to encourage you, you know,

1669
01:37:29,320 --> 01:37:31,280
Speaker 1: just like Jeremy is saying, like, and I think that's

1670
01:37:31,280 --> 01:37:33,439
Speaker 1: one of the great the things that AA gets right right.

1671
01:37:33,479 --> 01:37:36,760
Speaker 1: AA is big about like you carry this message on now.

1672
01:37:36,840 --> 01:37:40,120
Speaker 1: You and I happen to have the full message I believe,

1673
01:37:40,160 --> 01:37:42,720
Speaker 1: right right right, and so I want more people to

1674
01:37:42,840 --> 01:37:46,439
Speaker 1: carry on that full message that Jesus shoot for Jesus

1675
01:37:46,439 --> 01:37:49,160
Speaker 1: and gets sobriety thrown in. So Jeremy, thanks, Thanks, I

1676
01:37:49,200 --> 01:37:50,479
Speaker 1: appreciate you and love your brother.

1677
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:51,640
Speaker 2: How did you know?

1678
01:37:54,160 --> 01:38:00,000
Speaker 1: I don't know what part of Jeremy's story resonated with you.

1679
01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:03,680
Speaker 1: For me, there was it was so much, but you know,

1680
01:38:03,760 --> 01:38:05,679
Speaker 1: maybe it was the relapse, maybe it was the pride,

1681
01:38:05,680 --> 01:38:10,640
Speaker 1: maybe it was the avoidance, the hard family conversations. But

1682
01:38:10,720 --> 01:38:15,880
Speaker 1: wherever you found yourself resonating, I hope you really heard

1683
01:38:15,960 --> 01:38:25,240
Speaker 1: this that your story isn't disqualifying because it's complicated, like

1684
01:38:25,320 --> 01:38:28,719
Speaker 1: that is everyone's story. It's my story. It's everyone's story.

1685
01:38:28,720 --> 01:38:31,960
Speaker 1: Who has ever finally faced and had the courage to

1686
01:38:32,080 --> 01:38:36,360
Speaker 1: face the junk that's at the root of why we drink,

1687
01:38:36,439 --> 01:38:38,960
Speaker 1: of why we overeat, of why we look at porn,

1688
01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:44,240
Speaker 1: of why we have affairs. Like those stories are all complicated,

1689
01:38:45,080 --> 01:38:47,200
Speaker 1: you know. I used to there was a thing where

1690
01:38:48,120 --> 01:38:49,800
Speaker 1: I was listening to a preacher once and he said,

1691
01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:52,360
Speaker 1: you know, like, if your story, if your story isn't

1692
01:38:52,360 --> 01:38:54,519
Speaker 1: about hidden rock Bottom, and if it's not about this

1693
01:38:54,680 --> 01:38:58,679
Speaker 1: and that, like thank God, and and and I think

1694
01:38:59,240 --> 01:39:01,080
Speaker 1: in some ways that that's true. But I think in

1695
01:39:01,160 --> 01:39:04,200
Speaker 1: other ways it's like, if you think you don't have

1696
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:08,800
Speaker 1: a messy story, you just haven't dug enough. And I

1697
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:11,680
Speaker 1: don't mean that everyone has childhood trauma or everyone has

1698
01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:13,840
Speaker 1: repressed memories or you know, like that's not what I'm

1699
01:39:13,880 --> 01:39:17,639
Speaker 1: talking about. But I think that even the quote unquote

1700
01:39:17,640 --> 01:39:24,519
Speaker 1: buttoned up person who doesn't have a CD story, if

1701
01:39:24,520 --> 01:39:28,920
Speaker 1: they look inside of themselves, they will see and find

1702
01:39:29,080 --> 01:39:32,800
Speaker 1: a monster in there, like because we all have that

1703
01:39:32,880 --> 01:39:38,040
Speaker 1: monster with ns. So if you're listening to this, chances

1704
01:39:38,040 --> 01:39:40,960
Speaker 1: are you do have, you know, one of those stories

1705
01:39:41,040 --> 01:39:43,679
Speaker 1: that you have recognized the monster in yourself, but maybe

1706
01:39:43,680 --> 01:39:47,440
Speaker 1: you haven't. And what I would say if you haven't

1707
01:39:47,960 --> 01:39:52,880
Speaker 1: is that like, keep getting curious because there's something down

1708
01:39:53,120 --> 01:39:55,560
Speaker 1: in there, because the Bible and Scriptures make clear that

1709
01:39:55,560 --> 01:39:58,680
Speaker 1: there's something down inside all of us. So hopefully you

1710
01:39:58,840 --> 01:40:02,760
Speaker 1: enjoyed Jeremy's story. If there's one thing that resonated with you,

1711
01:40:03,360 --> 01:40:07,479
Speaker 1: would you please share this Please share this episode with someone.

1712
01:40:08,240 --> 01:40:10,760
Speaker 1: That's all I ask. You can like subscribe, whatever, but

1713
01:40:11,240 --> 01:40:13,120
Speaker 1: really my ask is that you would just share this

1714
01:40:13,160 --> 01:40:17,320
Speaker 1: episode with someone else. Love you all. Please visit our

1715
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:22,360
Speaker 1: podcast sponsor and partner, Life Audio. Lifeaudio dot com makes

1716
01:40:22,439 --> 01:40:29,440
Speaker 1: this podcast possible and I am so grateful for their partnership.

1717
01:40:29,439 --> 01:40:31,599
Speaker 1: You can check out other great podcasts like my friend

1718
01:40:31,640 --> 01:40:36,599
Speaker 1: Christy Osborne, who is starting a new podcast, Love Life Sober.

1719
01:40:36,840 --> 01:40:39,840
Speaker 1: You can check her out on lifeaudio dot com. Love

1720
01:40:39,880 --> 01:40:41,920
Speaker 1: you all, We will see you here next week.