1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Life audio. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 2: Delayed rescue doesn't mean diminished love. Delay doesn't mean abandonment. 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 2: There's a difference between grief and despair, and delay doesn't 4 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 2: have to lead to despair because it can actually be 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 2: the backdrop that God uses to bring deep healing and 6 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: greater spiritual and emotional freedom and increased faith. 7 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Faith. 8 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 2: Over Your podcast, where we discussed powerful truths to quiet 9 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 2: anxiety and fear big and small. I'm Jennifer Slattery with 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 2: a question I've wrestled with numerous times. What happens when 11 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 2: life plays out much differently than you expected. When it 12 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: feels like God isn't answering your prayers, your future seems uncertain, 13 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 2: and you're wondering why Jesus isn't intervening. When pain seizes 14 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 2: your soul often lies attached to it like God must 15 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 2: not love me if he let this happen, or He 16 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 2: must be upset with me, And then our minds fill 17 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: in numerous reasons why we might have forfeited his favor. 18 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 2: But here's the truth. God is good, faithful, kind and loving. 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 2: And today my guest Courtney Risick, and I will be 20 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 2: talking about what it looks like to hold tight to 21 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 2: belief when it feels like our hardship, our circumstances changes 22 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: absolutely everything. Courtney, thank you so much for joining us. 23 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. 24 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 2: Courtney Risick is a writer and Bible teacher living in 25 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 2: a Little Rock, Arkansas. She's the proud mom of four sons, 26 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 2: happy wife to Daniel, an author of several books, The 27 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: Accidental Feminist, Glory in the Ordinary, Teach me to feel 28 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 2: worshiping through the Psalms in every season of life, and 29 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 2: the one informing Today's conversation, Someone to believe in embracing 30 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: the Savior who stays the same when everything else changes. 31 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 2: Her writing has appeared in The Washington Post, The Gospel Coalition, 32 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: and Christianity Today, among other publications. When she is not 33 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: writing or wrangling her kids, she enjoys running and a 34 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 2: relaxing Friday night. Will include information on how to connect 35 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 2: with her and find her work in the show notes. 36 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: I also invite you to download our free companion guide 37 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: that will help you process today's content more deeply and 38 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 2: most importantly, while connecting with the one who loves you 39 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 2: more than you can fathom. Courtney, having read your book, 40 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 2: I know you've had your faith shaken, And I would 41 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 2: love if you would share with listeners about a time 42 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 2: when you felt so sideswiped by your circumstances and your pain, 43 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: you weren't sure that you could keep stepping, let alone 44 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 2: hold tight to faith. 45 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, so Keith said, there's a number of things where 46 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: I felt blindsided, and I think a lot of people 47 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: probably feel that way. But the one probably that still 48 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: feels fresh. And then also I'm probably still processing is 49 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: I was on staff at a church and in many 50 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,679 Speaker 1: ways was doing work that I thought I was made for. 51 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: And so I was overseeing adult content and discipleship curriculum 52 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 1: and training of Sunday school leaders and women's ministry. And 53 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: I had gone to seminary and really thought prior to 54 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: that point, I stopped going to seminary, had kids, we 55 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: moved to plant a church, and it felt like I 56 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: put my life on hold for my family. And then 57 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: I was serving on staff full time in my church 58 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: and was like, oh, this is my reward for putting 59 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: my life on hold. And I was able to serve 60 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: in this role and I loved it. And I was 61 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: a part of a church where some allegations of sexual 62 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: abuse had been uncovered and one instance in particular, and 63 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: so in the process of trying to work to notify 64 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: the church and report the abuse as we heard about it, 65 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: I came to a head with leadership over how it 66 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: was handled, and it really exploded our life. I resigned 67 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: from staff because I disagreed with how things were being handled, 68 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: and as a result, even more allegations of abuse that 69 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: had been prosecuted, and then another victim had come forward. 70 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: All of that had been hidden as well, and so 71 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: Little Rock's not a huge city, but it exploded in 72 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: our city. So my resignation became public, my reporting of 73 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: the abuse became public. Things went to trial, and our 74 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: family was not impacted by the abuse. Our children were 75 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: not abuse, but people that we knew because I served 76 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: on staff, they were deeply impacted by it. And all 77 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: of a sudden, I was unemployed, we didn't have a 78 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: church home, and people that I thought were my friends 79 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: didn't want my friends anymore and felt like I was 80 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: a problem instead of someone who was trying to help 81 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: those who had been abused. But there's still in my 82 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: life a lot of like I thought this was where 83 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: my life was going to go. I thought this was 84 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: my camp and my tribe of people and it's not anymore. 85 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: And so my world became really small. My friend group 86 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: became really small, The people who I trusted became really small, 87 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: and I had to come to terms with do I 88 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: really believe that Jesus is all I need and all 89 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: I have? And do I really believe that God is 90 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: for me? And God would abandon me even when earthly 91 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: people abandon me. And so the scriptures became really dear 92 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: to me and still are really dear to me because 93 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: they're full of people who are in the same boat 94 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: where David is right psalms of being abandoned by people 95 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: who he once called friends. The Book of a Back 96 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: is about asking God over and over and over again, 97 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: are you going to deliver us? And waiting on him 98 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,799 Speaker 1: to come? And so spiritual abuse is hard. Being mistreated 99 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: by a leader is hard. But when you add the 100 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: spiritual component of these are people that you were supposed 101 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: to trust, these people who taught God's word to you, 102 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: and these are people that you grew under, like I 103 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: grew under this pastor's ministry, and yet still saw such 104 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: contrary ways with the teaching of God's word and the 105 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: action didn't line up and so we hold a different 106 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 1: line on what is ethical and right. Those are the 107 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: hard things of where your interpretation of scripture leads you 108 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: to think this is an okay action, and I think 109 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: God says that's an injustice. 110 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 2: As I'm listening, you're right where the disciple would soon 111 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 2: find themselves like loss of a sense of identity, loss 112 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 2: of their faith community, probably slandered by people, they had 113 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 2: people abandon them, maybe even in their own family. And 114 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 2: as you're talking, I'm just thinking of the layers of 115 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 2: grief in your story. It's not just one thing, right, 116 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: It's like this, And then added, I can understand what 117 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 2: you probably felt like the ground beneath you was coming undone. 118 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 2: I imagine too it's hard seeing your kids like they 119 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 2: lost a lot too. 120 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: They did, and what was hard for them was because 121 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: of the way our community is. Every area, the school, 122 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: they're every area of their life was connected in some way, 123 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: and so they had to learn about things we didn't 124 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: want them to learn about really early on. We didn't 125 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: want them to learn about the layers of sexual abuse 126 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: and what that can do to somebody. But we had 127 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: to have some hard conversations with them about people that 128 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: they interacted with and ask them hard questions, and we 129 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: know you like going to this church that we're visiting 130 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: and your friends are there, but they don't have the 131 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: same standard of child protection that we hold because of 132 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: what we've experienced and seen, and so it was in 133 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: many ways they had to grow up and see people 134 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: don't act like Jesus and they don't protect kids like 135 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: they should. And that was hard when it became public 136 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: in the news because of the connection. Students at school 137 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: would talk about it, not knowing that their mom was 138 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: the one who was the whistleblower. So that was really hard. 139 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: I want to clarify that we experienced difficulty because of it, 140 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: and it was really hard and disorienting and the ground 141 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: was shaken underneath us. But my children weren't abused, and 142 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: people I love dearly their children were And those are 143 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: things that you don't We will heal and we will 144 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: be scarred from it, but there's a level of trauma 145 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: that those kids experience that they will live with for 146 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: the rest of their lives. That's not just the physical 147 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: trauma of abuse, but also the spiritual trauma of being 148 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: not believed by the leadership in their church and being 149 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: mistreated like they were the problem, and so we experienced 150 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: the suffering because we stood up for something that was right. 151 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: But that's not the same thing as someone maliciously targeting 152 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: us and abusing us like these kids were abused. I 153 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: tried to show our children that what we did was 154 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: on behalf of others. It's our job as believers to 155 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: be willing to be hurt and abused and targeted for 156 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: the sake of justice for somebody who can't see justice themselves. 157 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: That's part of what it means to be a Christian. 158 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 2: A couple of things I'm hearing well. The first thing 159 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 2: is some of our listeners that probably hits them in 160 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 2: a really tender place. They are probably some who maybe 161 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 2: have experienced what those who are advocating for felt like, 162 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 2: like you said, that's a deep, deep pain to endure. 163 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 2: And then it's also difficult to suffer for doing good. 164 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 2: And that's basically what happened. You took a hard, courageous 165 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 2: step of obedience, and you're like, bam, this is what happened. 166 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 2: But by the time we get to the end of 167 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 2: this episode, we get to hear a little more about 168 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 2: just where God has met you and all that, and 169 00:08:55,800 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 2: it reminds me that hardship doesn't disqualify our faith and 170 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 2: actually deepen it. And that's really the message of your book. 171 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 2: And there's one section in Scripture I think can really 172 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 2: anchoring when we find ourselves in those places where we're like, 173 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,479 Speaker 2: what in the world, what this isn't what I expected? 174 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 2: This faith community isn't what I expected, This leader isn't 175 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 2: what I expected. And it was actually something Peter said 176 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 2: when Jesus was speaking some hard truths and he was 177 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 2: experiencing opposition and people are bailing on. Can you share 178 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: that a little? 179 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's in John six and Jesus is saying 180 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: all these things to them about unless you drink my 181 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: blood and eat my flesh and all this stuff, and 182 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: they're like, well, that's craziness, Like I can't even fathom that. 183 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: So it says many who followed him walked away. And 184 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: so we often forget that there are disciples in the 185 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: scriptures who were who were called disciples of Jesus. They're 186 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: just not named. They're not the Twelve. The twelve were 187 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: kind of the last men's standing at the end. But 188 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: these are people who who eventually fell away. The harder 189 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: and harder it got and Jesus looks at Peter and says, 190 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: are you going to walk away? 191 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 2: Too? 192 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: And Peter says, to whom else shall we go? You 193 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: have the words of eternal life, like there is no 194 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: other place for us to go. That's what I had 195 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: to come to is and still had to come to. 196 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: I think the spiritual abuse and dissolutionment because of things 197 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: that happen. It doesn't go away overnight, and having to 198 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: continue to fight that fight of faith. But at the 199 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: end of the day, what other alternative is there? And 200 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: that's what I think for for whatever doubt is creeping in, 201 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: whether it's the path that following Jesus is too hard, 202 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: which is what the disciples and John six were doing, 203 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: or it's I don't trust anyone in the church and 204 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: therefore I don't want to be a Christian anymore, or 205 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: Christians all act bad. Why would I want to follow Jesus? 206 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: Or my suffering is just too hard and God's not 207 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: delivering me from my trial, and so I don't know 208 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: where else to go. I don't want to follow him anymore. 209 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: At the end of the day, there's no other path 210 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 1: that has a solution to our struggle. So to walk 211 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: away from it is to walk away from the hope 212 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: of restoration and resolution. There is going to be resolution. 213 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: The hardest part about walking through dissolution or suffering or 214 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: spiritual abuse is that you are living in the muck 215 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: and meyer of the injustice and you don't know when 216 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: it's going to end. And the sad reality is and 217 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 1: the hard reality is it might last your whole life. 218 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: Like we might not see resolution in this life, but 219 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: we will one day see resolution. And there's no other 220 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: pathway Atheism, other religions that provides the hope that one 221 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: day it'll be fixed. To just hope in nothingness feels 222 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: completely hopeless. I'm a high school English teachermany I've just 223 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: wrapped up a you know, on Frederick Douglas, and we 224 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: read the narrative of the life of Frederick Douglas. And 225 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: one of the things that slaves continue to hope in 226 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: was that they would sing these spirituals. And all of 227 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: them died without seeing any hope of justice. And yet 228 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: what anchored them and helped them to continue singing the 229 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: ones who are trusting in Christ was that one day 230 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: this too will be made right. And they held on 231 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: to faith, many of them can read. I mean they had, 232 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: it was just passed down through oral tradition. But to 233 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: hold on to the hope that the Christianity of the 234 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 1: slaveholders is not right, but the God that I trust 235 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: and the christ to save me is the one worth 236 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: believing in, and so I hope in that. You have 237 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: to just say, where else are we going to go? 238 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: There's no other answer that's going to provide another solution. 239 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: And I do think for someone who's struggling, you have 240 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: to come to that conclusion on your own. You have 241 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: to be like Peter and stand face to face with 242 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 1: Jesus and see him as the one that's worth believing in, 243 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: and then you have to trust. And what's hopeful about 244 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: the story of Peter is Peter says that, and then 245 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: a little later he says other things that are wrong, 246 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: and Jesus essentially says, get behind me, Satan, like you're 247 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: an instrument of Satan. And then a little bit later 248 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: Peter tries to use the earthly sword to deal with problems, 249 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: where he cuts off the sort the ear of one 250 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:57,719 Speaker 1: of the soldiers trying to arrest Jesus, or just a 251 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: little bit later than that, he denies Jesus and then 252 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: it acts. He forgets that Jesus is coming to save 253 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: the Gentiles and refuses to eat with him. So Peter 254 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: doesn't have this one moment where he says, you're the 255 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: one we trust in, and then he forever and always 256 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: does the right thing. He does it once, and then 257 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: he falls backwards. Then he has to trust again, and 258 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: then he falls backwards. That's a trust again. And I think, 259 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: for the one who's struggling to believe right now, the 260 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: one who keeps us is not ourselves. The one who 261 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: keeps us is the one who feeds us, who gives 262 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: us his bread and his blood to drink for life. 263 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: And so if I will for any encouragement, if you 264 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: are disillusioned and you feel like I can't be like Peter, no, 265 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: you probably can, because you're not the one keeping yourself. 266 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 2: Amen. Well, I also think too, Yes, we don't always 267 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 2: get reconciliation, restitution, justice in this particular area. But you know, 268 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: I'm thinking of all. And he said for me to 269 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 2: live a Christ and to die is gain. We do 270 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: get a deeper understanding if we press into Christ through 271 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 2: our suffering. I feel like he gives us a deeper 272 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 2: understanding of his heart and his nature and a greater 273 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 2: intimacy with Him. For those who are really experiencing, you're 274 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 2: in the midst of it. A good practice is just 275 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 2: ask yourself, if we don't turn to God in our pain, 276 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 2: where will we go? And this is important as well, 277 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 2: where will that lead us? How can that question comfort 278 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 2: our souls bolster our faith? And I think, like you said, 279 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 2: it reminds us that our faith is beyond this moment, 280 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 2: and it helps us recognize if we turn from God, 281 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 2: the pain isn't going to go away. Like those who 282 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 2: suffer that abuse or who are experiencing abuse now, the 283 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 2: pain is not going to go away, but the difference 284 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 2: is we'll be enduring it alone. So we're going to 285 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 2: be a lot weaker and we're not going to have 286 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 2: the hope to both stress and so my perspective is 287 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 2: faith doesn't shield us from pain, but it does make 288 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: it easier to bear. 289 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah. Because then on fourteen Jesus says I won't 290 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: leave you his orphans, I'll come to you. They were 291 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: deeply troubled by the fact that he says I'm going 292 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: to leave you. I will not be here in my 293 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: physical body any longer, and that was incredibly troubling to them. 294 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: And yet Jesus says, but I'm gonna I'm gonna be here. 295 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to be with him. We better than my 296 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: bodily presence. I'm going to forever be in Dwelt in 297 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: you through the Holy Spirit. And so I think, yeah, 298 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, is that we have nowhere else to go. 299 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 1: But we also have the presence of the Lord with 300 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: us always to guide us in this faith. 301 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, we also have things that He's built into our 302 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 2: soul that can bowl stress you. I'm thinking of the 303 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 2: disciples as well. And by the point this point, John six, 304 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: they'd experienced Christ personally, probably for at least a year. 305 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 2: They had witnessed numerous miracles. He'd fed thousand from a 306 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 2: child's lunch. They'd watched him walk on water quite a storm, 307 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 2: Peter had walked on water. And so God had given 308 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 2: them a lot of reasons to hold tight to faith 309 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 2: despite the doubts, the questions, the inner wrestling. And the 310 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 2: reason I mentioned that is we had somebody on our 311 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 2: show not terribly long ago where he talked about faith 312 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 2: through the rear view mirror, and a really good practice 313 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 2: is reflecting on Lord. How have you built into my 314 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 2: soul evidence of who you are in my life, evidence 315 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 2: of where you're taking me your goodness? And I think 316 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 2: it's interesting to Courtney the people who were offended and left, 317 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 2: they left based on their misunderstanding of Christ's words, and 318 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 2: I feel like that is sometimes what happens with us 319 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 2: as well. Hardship can be telling us one story, but 320 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 2: is that the accurate story? And how much of our despair, 321 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 2: our disillusionment, how much of it stems from our difficulty 322 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 2: to understand God and his ways or maybe even subconsciously, 323 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 2: what story is our pain telling us? And then what 324 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 2: do we see in scripture and in our past experiences 325 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 2: with the Lord. Here's why I feel that's important. When 326 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 2: pain hits, a view of Christ can become this stored it. 327 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 2: And so we're actually going to take a break for 328 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 2: a brief word from our sponsors, but stay tuned because 329 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 2: when we return, we're going to discuss a powerful biblical 330 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 2: example of what seems like shattered and then resurrected faith, 331 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: and I would say resurrected and straightened. So hold tight. 332 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 2: We're back. Earlier, my guest Courtney Riisick and I talked 333 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 2: about how hardship can shake our expectations and test what 334 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 2: we believe about God. And now we're going to look 335 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 2: at a powerful biblical example of someone whose faith seemed 336 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 2: shattered by loss and confusion, but was ultimately I'm giving 337 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 2: the punch line here, but was ultimately resurrected and strengthened 338 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 2: through a deeper encounter with Christ. And so Courtney, I'm 339 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 2: thinking of Jesus's encounter with Mary and Martha and John eleven. 340 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 2: For those who aren't familiar with that story, would you 341 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 2: mind giving us a brief explanation of that historical account. 342 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: The Gospel of John is divided into what's called the 343 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 1: Book of Signs in the Book of Glory, and so 344 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: it is John eleven and is the hinge point of 345 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: the book, and then it flips into the Book of Glory, 346 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: moving Jesus towards the cross. As you can imagine, it's 347 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: the ultimate sign because up to this point Jesus has 348 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: done a lot of miraculous things where he's multiplied bread 349 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: and turned water into wine. But at this point he's 350 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: going to take a dead man. The dead man's going 351 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: to walk out of the tomb. John could have used 352 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: any of Jesus' resurrection stories because he's risen other people 353 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: and other gospel accounts, but he does this one in 354 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: particular of Lazarus because the text tells us that Jesus 355 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: loves Mary and Martha and Lazarus. Mary Martha are Lazarus's sister, 356 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: and so the text begins with Jesus' is not with them, 357 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: and Mary Martha send word to Jesus the one you 358 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 1: love is sick, which is Lazarus, and so they appeal 359 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: to their shared love for their brother, but they also 360 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: appealed to the fact that they know Jesus loves him 361 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: and is dear to their family. The expectation is when 362 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: someone you love is sick, you run to them. The 363 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: text tells us that Jesus delays two days, and many 364 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: commentators say that so that you would know that he's dead, 365 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: like really dead. So he gets there, they run to him, 366 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: and people tell the sisters that Jesus is here, and 367 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: Martha gets up and runs to Jesus and she appeals 368 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: with this immediate if you had been here, my brother 369 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: would not have died, and Jesus. Tim Keller says that 370 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 1: Jesus responds to Mary and Martha in different ways because 371 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: he has a perfect ability to respond to people directly 372 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 1: how they need. And he said Martha needed Jesus's truth 373 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: and Mary needed Jesus's tears. So he responds to them 374 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: with the hope that he's the resurrection of the life 375 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 1: and that their brother will rise again. But they, like 376 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: many and the Gospels, don't understand fully what that means. 377 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: When he gets to Mary. He goes to Mary because 378 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: Mary does not get up and run to him because 379 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 1: she's so deeply grieved. But the text tells us on 380 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: more than one account that Jesus is deeply moved and 381 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: for someone walking through suffering and death and loss to 382 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: know that we have a sympathetic savior who comes to 383 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: us in our grief, who provides truth when we need truth, 384 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: who provides tears and empathy when we need that. And 385 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 1: so Jesus comes to the tomb and then calls Lazarus out, 386 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: and Lazarus walks out alive, and it moves quickly. Those 387 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 1: of us walking through loss and grief that doesn't move quickly. 388 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: So some people might be in the Jesus is sympathizing 389 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: with you in your grief moment. Some people might be 390 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: in the Jesus is giving us the truth that we 391 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: need to hear in the moment, or he's because none 392 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: of us respond perfectly in grief, and so sometimes he 393 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: needs to come to us with heart truths, and sometimes 394 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: he needs to come to us with his tears. And 395 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: the reality is that we don't live in the New 396 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: creation yet and so none of us have seen the 397 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: resurrection of those we love. So we're all living in 398 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: this already but not yet time of the resurrection. But 399 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: the hope is that Jesus, after this account, went to 400 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,479 Speaker 1: the cross and died, and he himself was resire, and 401 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: so his resurrection is proof that those who trust in 402 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: him will one day be resurrected as well. And so 403 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,719 Speaker 1: for anyone walking through that type of loss and grief, 404 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: the hope is that He's with you, is not afraid 405 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 1: to associate with those who are deeply grieved in their suffering, 406 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 1: and then one day he will raise us all from 407 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: the deadlack Lazarus, which is an incredible hope. 408 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I just want to speak into those who 409 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 2: pray for relief and aren't experiencing that nallyby I want 410 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 2: them to just pause and put themselves in Martha and 411 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 2: Mary's position. For a minute, when I read that story, 412 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 2: I'm thinking, if it was my loved one. I've actually 413 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 2: watched loved ones past, and I prayed for loved ones 414 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 2: for healing that didn't come. And that is excruciate when 415 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 2: you know God can do something with a mere command. 416 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 2: If he can create entire galaxies, you know from a 417 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 2: mere command, you know he can do this. But then 418 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 2: also pausing, So I'm a mom of a fur baby 419 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 2: and a human and for me, when I watch somebody 420 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 2: I love stuff for, I am just torn up. Even 421 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 2: if I know that they're gonna make it through, yep, 422 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 2: it's still destabilizing. It creates grief, like you said. And 423 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 2: one thing I when kind of piggybacking on what you said, 424 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 2: like Jesus gets it. I'm thinking of his words in 425 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 2: Matthew twenty five where he's like, if you if you 426 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 2: gave the least of these water, you fed them, you 427 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,439 Speaker 2: visited them in prison, whatever you did for them, you 428 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 2: did for me and to me. I take that to 429 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 2: mean exactly what you said. He deeply feels our pain, 430 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 2: and so I wonder if it took self control when 431 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 2: when you know you can you can do it. You 432 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: know you can do it, but you're you're trying to 433 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 2: do something better. Yeah, I mean you're you're doing a 434 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 2: better work. And I'm thinking as a parent, there so 435 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,959 Speaker 2: many times when I've tried with when my especially when 436 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 2: my daughter was young, and you know, they got to 437 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 2: get this is a minor obviously, but to a child 438 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 2: that's huge. You know, when you got take them to 439 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: get shot. I cried. 440 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, absolutely, me too. It's horrible because it hurts, 441 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: because it hurts us deeply. 442 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 2: But we know the alternative is worse, right, right, and 443 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 2: he was doing a greater work. And so I'm gonna 444 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 2: pose that question again while we are waiting for him 445 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 2: to do what only he can do. He invites us 446 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 2: to once again ask ourselves that question that Peter asked, Lord, 447 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 2: where else will I go? You alone hold the keys 448 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 2: to life? Because delayed rescue doesn't mean diminished love, delay 449 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 2: doesn't mean abandonment. I think there's a difference between grief 450 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 2: and despair, and delay doesn't have to lead to despair 451 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 2: because it can actually be the backdrop that God uses 452 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 2: to bring deep healing and greater spiritual and emotional freedom 453 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 2: and increased faith and I would like to hear. So 454 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 2: you were in that space, you're in the messy middle. 455 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 2: So what are some truths that when you're in And 456 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 2: I don't want to speak for you, Courtney, but for me, 457 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 2: I can have one minute be really strong faith. In 458 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 2: the next minute I am just consume with doubt and 459 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 2: then back and forth I go. So, when you're in 460 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 2: that place where you're in the mess middle, like you 461 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 2: are right now, what are some ways you anchor yourself 462 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 2: in God's goodness? 463 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: So honestly, for me it seems so simple. But I 464 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: do not neglect taking in the scriptures daily. I mean 465 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: for me that is the in prayer daily. That is 466 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: the thing that I know if I gave it up 467 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: and said, even if I don't want to, if I 468 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: stopped it, would I know my faith would falter. It 469 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: doesn't mean I always glean something from it, but not 470 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: going to find hope or a inchor anywhere else. And 471 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: I think that's what I mean Mary and Martha were doing, 472 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: is Martha did not stop running to Jesus when when 473 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: he was delaying. And I think that's the hope for us, 474 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: is Martha had all kinds of hope that Jesus was 475 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:41,959 Speaker 1: going to do something in the resurrection. She knew there 476 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: was a resurrection coming, and she says it to Jesus. 477 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: What she did not know or understand was what Jesus 478 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 1: could do for her right then. But she kept coming 479 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: to him, waiting and hoping and trusting. And I think 480 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: it's that same principle of to where else are we 481 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: going to go? We have to keep coming to him. 482 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: We have to keep running to him. And even if 483 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: going to church is hard, you don't have to be 484 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: super involved. 485 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 2: I was. 486 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: There was nothing that you could be involved in that 487 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: I wasn't in before, and now I'm not that much. 488 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: That's okay. I mean that someday I won't be. But 489 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: you can still put one foot in front of the 490 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: other and still have boundaries and guard yourself from earthly things. 491 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 1: But run to him without boundaries, because he can be trusted. 492 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 1: We just can't always make sense of him. 493 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 2: I like that you mentioned it's okay because I know 494 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 2: a lot of people in our community, a lot of 495 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 2: listeners as well, have experienced significant religious abuse. Yes, it's 496 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 2: okay to give yourself space to heal. I know sometimes 497 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 2: that can be challenging because we're taught so much be 498 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 2: a contributor, not a consumer, and all of those things. 499 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: Value the local church, like all right, right. 500 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 2: And those are true. But it's also true that there 501 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,439 Speaker 2: are times when Jesus says, you know what, now is 502 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 2: your time to sit with me. John was on the 503 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 2: island of pat most forward the hand of his wife. 504 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: Nobody else. 505 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I want to I want to read one 506 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 2: passage for the listeners who are struggling to hold on 507 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 2: to that God is good, that He's for them, that 508 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 2: He's loved, he loves them. This is from Romans chapter eight, 509 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 2: which I really love because it's a whole chapter on suffering, 510 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 2: like this, this world is hard, and it's gonna feel 511 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,159 Speaker 2: like you're in the middle of childbirth, which if you 512 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 2: have ever had childbirth, it's that is super hard. But 513 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 2: so this is Romans eight thirty seven to thirty nine, 514 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 2: and it's one of my favorite chapters. Paul the author 515 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,400 Speaker 2: for Century Evangelist, he wrote that like all of these 516 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 2: things that we're suffering, and all these things, we are 517 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 2: more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I 518 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons. 519 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 2: Neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, either 520 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 2: height or depth, nor anything else in all creation will 521 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 2: be able to separate us from the love of God 522 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 2: that is in Christ Jesus. And since your book anchors 523 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 2: in John, which I love, there's another promise Jesus made, 524 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,120 Speaker 2: which is a hard and encouraging promise in John sixteen 525 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 2: thirty three. Do you what I'm talking about? 526 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: Yes, in this world you'll have trouble, but take heart, 527 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: I've overcome the world. 528 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 2: Yes. And I think it's significant of when he spoke 529 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 2: that as well. 530 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: Well, because he's speaking it to them as he's about 531 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: to live out the trouble that they're going to experience. 532 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: They've had this religious high. They've been with him. He's 533 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,159 Speaker 1: been showing them all these miracles and teaching them all 534 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: these things that they had never heard before or had 535 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: not heard expanded upon before. And then he's about to 536 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 1: be taken by force to the cross and be betrayed 537 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: by religious leaders. And really, for them, it was a 538 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: foretaste of the spiritual persecution that they were about to 539 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: experience when he ascended to the Father and left them there. 540 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: And so God is always kind to give them a preview, 541 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: even in the Old Testament, gives you a preview of 542 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: what's to come, and then gives you the promise of 543 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: how he's going to help you endure through it, which 544 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: is what he's doing for them there is you're going 545 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: to have a lot of trouble. The same promise is 546 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: true for us. And I always think of the passage 547 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: in the children's version of Pilgrim's Progress. It's dangerous journey, 548 00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: and at the very end, when Pilgrim is about to 549 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 1: cross over the waters to get to Heaven, the celestial City, 550 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: the writer says, but the trouble that a man goes 551 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: through in these waters is no sign that God has 552 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 1: forgotten him. And that's such a comfort, because in the 553 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 1: way the story goes, he thinks he's going to sink, 554 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: he thinks he's done all this journey up to this 555 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: point and there's no hope for him going forward. And 556 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: this little insertion is the trouble he's going through is 557 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: no sign God's forgotten him. And then within a couple 558 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: of sentences he feels level ground and he walks the 559 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: celestial city. And I think that's the promise for us 560 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: as well, is that we're going to have trouble. We 561 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: won't overcome the world. But He's overcome the world. But 562 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: I wanted to say too about the local church. I 563 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: had one other thought is that you can believe that 564 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: God has promised to establish his glory through the Big 565 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: Sea Church, the church, and not trust a local expression. 566 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: That's okay. Local expression of a church does not, by 567 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: definition of being calling themselves a church mean they're faithful 568 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: by any stretch of the imagination. And so it's okay 569 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: to say I trust the Big Sea Church, I trust 570 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: the global church. I trust that God is working through 571 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: the church. I just don't trust these local expressions here 572 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: right now, and they are not walking faithfully. If for 573 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: the Book of Revelation bears out is some local expressions 574 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: are unfaithful and is going to be removed. And your 575 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: discomfort with that is a sign of the spirit working 576 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: in you. Again, that's another sign of trouble. Jesus has 577 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: ever come right, He'll deal with them well. 578 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 2: I also like for the beginning of the John sixteen 579 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 2: thirty three verse where he says, I told you these 580 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 2: things so that in me you may have peace, and 581 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 2: for our listeners a practice that you can try that 582 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 2: I particular. So I experience chronic anxiety from the time 583 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 2: before I could even talk, and I'm learning when I'm 584 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 2: feeling really anxious or when I'm really hurting, I'm learning 585 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 2: to pause and invite God's presence, to sense his presence, 586 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 2: and to really sit in that. So I invite our 587 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 2: I invite listeners. When you're sensing the overwhelmed, when you're 588 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 2: seting grief, begin to train your soul, like Courtney said, 589 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 2: Martha ran straight to Jesus. Begin to train your soul 590 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 2: to seek Jesus in those moments. And I would say, 591 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 2: be patient, be consistent, be persistent, because the more i 592 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,239 Speaker 2: practice sensing his presence, the more I'm able also to 593 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 2: sense his presence. And I will tell you I think 594 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 2: for if you've been in religious abuse, this will feel 595 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 2: really confusing because you may have been trained that fear 596 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 2: is conviction, that anxiety is conviction. When God convicts me, 597 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 2: I still sense his peace because I sense hope. It's 598 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 2: a conviction that says, you know what, I have got 599 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 2: better life for you. It is not a conviction that 600 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 2: says this is hopeless, you're terrible. So when you sense 601 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 2: a bit of peace that is from God. When you're 602 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,959 Speaker 2: sensing more agitation, then there's probably something else going on. 603 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 2: So I would just encourage you to keep and when 604 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 2: I say something, it can be so many different things, 605 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 2: hormones and things and can affect it. But it's just 606 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 2: a practice for you to begin to learn. Okay, this 607 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 2: is how I seek God, this is how I encounter him, 608 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 2: because it'll be different. Just like you said, he spoke 609 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 2: to Mary and Martha differently, I think will encounter him differently, 610 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 2: received his comfort differently. But to keep to keep pressing 611 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 2: into that. And one thing Courtney keeps reiterating, and in 612 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 2: your book it came out really loud and clear. Hardship 613 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 2: changes our circumstances and maybe our expectations, but not Christ. 614 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 2: I'm going to say you say that one more time. 615 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 2: Hardship changes our circumstances, but not Christ, Courtney, when you 616 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 2: were and maybe right now when you're in it, I 617 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 2: don't know when, but especially when it all came down 618 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 2: like I can't even imagine the anxiety of having to 619 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 2: stand against religious like I just can't. Did God is there? 620 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 2: Did he speak into your soul a truth that maybe 621 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 2: you've really clung to since then, the one. 622 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: That has stood out to me the most is from 623 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: John ten, where Jesus says He's the good Shepherd. And 624 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: I find that passage so comforting because Jesus is speaking 625 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: that in the context of the man born blind being healed. 626 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: And when the man born blind is healed, he's cast 627 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: out of the temple and the religious leaders want nothing 628 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: to do with him because of his association with Jesus. 629 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: And what we forget about that time period is that 630 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: the original hearers would have thought the religious leaders were 631 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: the best Jews there could have been, and so they 632 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: are equated with our pastors today, and yet they shunned him. 633 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: And so Jesus says, I'm the good Shepherd. All these 634 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: other shepherds they are the ones who devour. And so 635 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: that has been a comfort is that I might not 636 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: be able to trust earthly shepherds, but I can trust 637 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: the good Shepherd, and that is okay. That's going to 638 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: have to be enough when I don't feel great about 639 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: the landscape of earthly shepherds. That's going to have to 640 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: be enough until the Lord continues to heal me. And 641 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: I can look at how he behaves and he operates. 642 00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 2: And know. 643 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: That that's enough for right now. 644 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 2: I love that to our listeners. Here's another practical tool 645 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 2: that you can try if you're going through a really 646 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 2: difficult time. Maybe tucket in your pocket if you're not presently, 647 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 2: because probably a difficult time will come. But journal prayerfully. 648 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 2: Consider ask yourself what has God told me previously or 649 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 2: maybe right now to strengthen me for this present moment, 650 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 2: to help you cling to faith, and again to help 651 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 2: you journal prayerfully and process that question. We've created a 652 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 2: free companion guide and replacing a link in the show 653 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 2: notes so you can download it for there from there. 654 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 2: Because yes, trouble and hardship will come, but if we've 655 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 2: entrusted our souls to Jesus, will never face anything alone. 656 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 2: So if you could, as we close, if you could 657 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 2: remind us what was his promise in that John sixteen 658 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 2: thirty three passage. 659 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: In this world you'll have trouble, but take heart, I've 660 00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: overcome the world. 661 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 2: Yes, and so we can overcome as well because Jesus 662 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 2: lives and reigns in us. This has been such a 663 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 2: great conversation Courtney, and it's a fabulous book. Again. Her 664 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,280 Speaker 2: book is titled Someone to Believe In Embracing the savior 665 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 2: who stays the same when everything else changes. Here's a 666 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 2: little about the book. When the things that once steadied 667 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 2: your spiritual life suddenly shift. When faith is shaken, leaders fail, 668 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 2: ministry drains you, or someone you love walks away from God, 669 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 2: where do you turn? Author and Bible teacher Courtney Risic 670 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,879 Speaker 2: has wrestled with those questions. When painful circumstances stripped away 671 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,240 Speaker 2: the trappings of easy Christianity, she faced a difficult choice 672 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,360 Speaker 2: walk away from faith or stay and search for what 673 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 2: remained that was worth believing. And in that painful place 674 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 2: where trustfelt fragile and spiritual stability seemed distant, God met 675 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 2: her through powerful moments in the Gospel of John. He 676 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 2: revealed the steady truth when everything else changed, jes Jesus does. 677 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 2: If your fail faith feels shaken, Courtney's message in her 678 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 2: book will point you back to the unchanging Jesus Christ, 679 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 2: someone you can still believe in Again. Courtney, this has 680 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 2: been awesome. Thank you for the book. Reading It has 681 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 2: helped to fortum five my soul. I know it's going 682 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 2: to do the same for the listeners. 683 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. 684 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening. If you haven't already done, so 685 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 2: I encourage you to subscribe to this podcast so you 686 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 2: won't miss a single episode. And we've got some great 687 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 2: discussions coming up. This Tuesday, Carol will be speaking with 688 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 2: therapists Christian Faith Evans on practical grounding exercises you can 689 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 2: use to calm your soul when anxiety spikes, along with 690 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 2: what makes those tools so effective. Then, on the twenty first, 691 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 2: musician and author Michelle Wilkins and I will be talking 692 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 2: about fighting for your heart when hardship, disappointment, and unanswered 693 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,919 Speaker 2: prayers try to pull you into bitterness and despair. Share 694 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 2: today's content with your family and friends because we're living 695 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,839 Speaker 2: in hard times in which we could all use reminders 696 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 2: of God's love, power, and grace and engage with us 697 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 2: in the comments like Darrell and Lynne Alicia did Hi friends, 698 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 2: thank you so much for connecting through Spotify. We appreciate you, 699 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 2: and to everyone until next time, may you live this 700 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 2: one who truly has been set free