1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 2: When someone you love is living with PTSD, it can 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 2: leave you feeling helpless, confused, and afraid of saying or 4 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 2: doing the wrong thing. You want to help, but what 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 2: if your well intended words make things worse. In honor 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 2: of PTSD Awareness Month, on today's episode of Your Hope 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: Field Perspective, we will address the questions so many caregivers, spouses, 8 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 2: friends and family members quietly ask, like how do I 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: support someone with PTSD, what helps, what hurts? And how 10 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: do I walk with them without losing myself. This conversation 11 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 2: offers practical guidance, psychological insight, and biblical hope for anyone 12 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: living with someone who's gone through trauma. On a recent 13 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 2: episode of Your Hope Field Perspective, I offered an episode 14 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 2: discussing understanding PTSD, what it is, what it isn't, and 15 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: how God meets us in the aftermath of trauma. If 16 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 2: you haven't listened to that episode, I encourage you to 17 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 2: go back and listen to the insights offered there. But 18 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 2: we want to continue this important discussion, so today we 19 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 2: will be talking about how to help a loved one 20 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 2: who is struggling with PTSD, what to do and what 21 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: not to do. Welcome to your Hope Field perspective or 22 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 2: it's always our goal to restore hope, renew minds, and 23 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 2: empowered listeners to live in your God given identity. I'm 24 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:34,839 Speaker 2: your host, doctor Michelle Banks and board certified clinical neuropsychologist, author, speaker, 25 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 2: and perhaps more importantly, companion on the journey to mental, emotional, 26 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: and spiritual wellness. I'm always so grateful when you spend 27 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 2: a few minutes of your week with us. Today's an 28 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 2: important conversation that I just don't think we talk about enough. 29 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: We're going to talk about how to help a loved 30 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 2: one who's struggling with PTSD, what to do and what 31 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: not to do. Right after this brief word from our sponsor, 32 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: post traumatic stress disorder doesn't just affect the person who 33 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: experienced the trauma, It impacts everyone who loves them. If 34 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 2: you've ever felt like you're walking on eggshells, unsure of 35 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 2: how to respond to a loved one's mood changes, triggers withdrawal, 36 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: or emotional shutdown, this episode is for you in recognition 37 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 2: a PTSD Awareness Month. Today on your Hope Field perspective, 38 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 2: we are going to address a topic that affects far 39 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: more people than we often realize. We will unpack what 40 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 2: it really looks like to help a loved one who 41 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 2: is struggling with post traumatic stress disorder, what to do, 42 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 2: what not to do, and how God meets both the 43 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: wounded and those who walk beside them in the aftermath 44 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: of trauma. Joining me for this important discussion is my 45 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 2: co host, jessic gunbnrukol Oh. Welcome back, Jess, Thank you. 46 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 3: I'm happy to be here. And if you're listening today 47 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 3: because someone you love has been changed by trauma and 48 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,959 Speaker 3: you're not sure how to support them without making things worse, 49 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 3: this episode is for you. As I've thought about this 50 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 3: episode and the importance it holds not only for those 51 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 3: struggling with PTSD, but also the loved ones who care 52 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,399 Speaker 3: for them, I'm reminded of Romans Chapter fifteen, Verse one, 53 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 3: We who are strong ought to bear with the failings 54 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 3: of the week, and not to please ourselves. I see 55 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 3: this verse as a call to compassionate sacrificial support without judgment. 56 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and before we go any further, I just want 57 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: to clarify. I love that verse, and we are not 58 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: saying that if you struggle with PTSD that you are 59 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: weak or you are failing. Please don't hear that. What 60 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 2: we really feel is that we need to come alongside 61 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: those who are struggling because it's not your choice, it's 62 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: not something you've done wrong, and we want to be 63 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 2: part of the link with others to build you up 64 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: and support you. Thinking of the truth in Isaiah forty two, 65 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 2: verse three, a bruised read he will not break, and 66 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: a faintly burning wick, he will not quench. The reason 67 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 2: I like that verse and I think it's so applicable, 68 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 2: Jess for the conversation that we're having today is because 69 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 2: God's gentleness towards the traumatized sets the model for our support. 70 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: BTSD doesn't just affect the person who experienced the trauma. 71 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 2: It impacts relationships and families, marriages, friendships, and even faith communities. 72 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: So today we're going to talk about what actually helps, 73 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 2: what unintentionally hurts, and how God meets both the traumatized 74 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 2: and those who walk alongside them. 75 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 3: Okay, this is going to be a great episode, So 76 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 3: let's start right where many of our listeners live. Some say, 77 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 3: the trauma happened to my loved one, but it feels 78 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 3: like it changed our relationship From a clinical perspective, why 79 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 3: does PTO affect the way someone shows up with the 80 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 3: people they love. 81 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 2: That's a very important first question because it helps remove 82 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 2: a lot of confusion and self flame. So clinically speaking, 83 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 2: post traumatic stress disorder is not a character issue or 84 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 2: a lack of effort. It's actually a nervous system injury. 85 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 2: Trauma physically changes how the brain and body respond to 86 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 2: perceived danger. When someone experiences trauma, the brain's alarm system 87 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 2: we've talked about this before, the amygdala. It becomes overactive 88 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 2: and it starts scanning constantly for threat even when there 89 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 2: is no current danger present. And at the same time, 90 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: the parts of the brain that are responsible for reasoning, 91 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: emotional regulation, and relational connection don't function as efficiently, and 92 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 2: this can be severe or it can be relatively mild. 93 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: I was once involved in a bad car accident when 94 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: I was doing my fellowship at Henry Ford Hospital in 95 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 2: Detroit and my husband was living in Schaumberg, Illinois, and 96 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 2: so every weekend one of us would commute to go 97 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 2: see the other one. Well, that particular weekend, I had 98 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 2: gone to see Scott in Chicago, because Chicago is more 99 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 2: fun than Detroit. If I'm being honest. But anyway, the 100 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 2: weather turned and I had a very long drive back, 101 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 2: and in my not wisest of moments, I decided to 102 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 2: try to beat the storm back to Detroit and got 103 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 2: in a very bad car accident. I was fine, but 104 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 2: it was a significant incident. And for the next many 105 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 2: years I would find myself in a car with somebody 106 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 2: and if they didn't break fast enough, my brain just 107 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 2: naturally perceived it as a dangerous threat and I would 108 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 2: grab the car handle or my feet would go forward 109 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 2: as if I was trying to break And that's what 110 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 2: I mean. It's a nervous system injury that's really not 111 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 2: in our direct control. There are things that we can 112 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: do to mitigate it. And if you are one who's 113 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 2: struggling with PTSD, please go back to the earlier episode 114 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 2: that I talked about. But I use this as a 115 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 2: simple example of how that amygdala jumps in and it's 116 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 2: ready to fight, and the part of the brain that's 117 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 2: responsible for emotional regulation and reasoning kind of takes a 118 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 2: back seat, as it did with me. So, friends, what 119 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 2: can look like withdrawal, irritability, or emotional distance in a 120 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: relationship is really often our brain doing the best to 121 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 2: try to keep the person safe, even when that protection 122 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 2: creates distance from the people they care about the most. 123 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 3: So what you're saying, then, is when a spouse or 124 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 3: family member says they're just not the same anymore, that's 125 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 3: not a no. 126 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 2: That's very real. Trauma changes how someone experiences the world 127 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: and how safe connection feels. But the key thing that 128 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 2: I really want listeners to hear is this change does 129 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 2: not mean broken beyond repair. The brain is wounded, but 130 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: the beautiful thing about how God designed our brains is 131 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 2: that it's all so capable of healing. 132 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 3: Okay, this is so interesting and hopeful. Now let's talk 133 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 3: about fight, flight, freeze, and fawn. I know that we 134 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 3: hear terms like fight or flight, but we don't always 135 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 3: know what that looks like in real life. Will you 136 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 3: walk through how these trauma responses show up relationally? 137 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,839 Speaker 2: Sure, and this is so helpful for loved ones to understand. 138 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 2: When the brain perceives danger, it automatically activates survival responses, 139 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 2: and these responses happen before logic kicks in. In my 140 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 2: little example of how I responded and other people would 141 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 2: drive after my car accident, my brain perceived danger, and 142 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 2: it automatically activated the survival response, clutching the door handle 143 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: and trying to break for the driver. That was before 144 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 2: I could even think about it. In fact, I didn't 145 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 2: realize what I was doing until a close friend of 146 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 2: mine in Nebraska who knows me very well, She's like, 147 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 2: are you not feeling safe with how I'm driving? And 148 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 2: it clicked. No, it really wasn't about her driving. It's 149 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 2: that my brain didn't want the same thing to happen 150 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 2: to me again. So fight can look like irritability, anger, defensiveness, 151 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: or quick emotional reactions. A loved one may seem oh 152 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: argumentative or easily frustrated, not because they want conflict, but 153 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 2: because their nervous system is braced for threat. Light often 154 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 2: shows up as avoidance. They may pull away from conversations, 155 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 2: cancel plans, overwork, stay bl or even emotionally check out. 156 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 2: Avoidance is really the brain's attempt to escape anything that 157 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 2: feels overwhelming or dangerous, and freeze is when the nervous 158 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 2: system just shuts down. This can look like emotional numbness, silence, disassociation, 159 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 2: or blank stare, and loved ones will often say it's 160 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 2: like they're here, but they're not really here. And then 161 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 2: there's fawn, which is less talked about. Fawn responses involve 162 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 2: people pleasing, overapologizing, or minimizing their own needs to keep 163 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 2: the peace. It's another survival strategy that's rooted in conflict 164 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 2: or abandonment. 165 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 3: This is so incredibly helpful because many people listening might 166 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 3: recognize these patterns but didn't realize they were trauma responses exactly. 167 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 2: And when we name these responses accurately, we help reduce 168 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 2: shame and it increases our own compassion. 169 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 3: Wow. Now, another thing loved ones mentioned is feeling like 170 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 3: they're walking on eggshells. Why does that happen with PTSD? 171 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 2: That's often due to what we call hypervigilance. Hypervigilance means 172 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 2: that the nervous system is stuck on hyghlert, so a 173 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 2: person maybe easily startled sensitive to noise or sensitive to 174 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 2: tone of voice, facial expressions, or sudden changes. For loved 175 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 2: ones Jess, this can feel confusing because something small like 176 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 2: a door accidentally slamming or a comment even said casually, 177 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 2: can trigger a big reaction. But again, the reaction really 178 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 2: isn't about the present moment, it's about the past danger 179 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 2: being re experienced within the body. Now, on the other 180 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 2: end of the spectrum, we can also see emotional numbing, 181 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 2: and this is when the brain damns our emotional response altogether. Joy, affection, excitement, 182 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 2: even love can feel muted, kind of like you're looking 183 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 2: through Hayes. And loved ones can often then interpret this 184 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 2: as indifference, but it's not. It's actually the brain trying 185 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 2: to protect your loved one from emotional overload. 186 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 3: Wow. So what I'm hearing you say is that the 187 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 3: same brain that shuts down pain can also shut down pleasure. 188 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Trauma doesn't selectively numb, it blunts across the board. 189 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 3: So one of the most painful things for supporters is 190 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 3: feeling pushed away. Why does PTSD often lead to relational withdrawal? 191 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 2: At its core, it's because trauma disrupts trust, both trust 192 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 2: in others and trust in oneself and sometimes even trust 193 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 2: in God. Relationships to be close require vulnerability, and vulnerability 194 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 2: feels dangerous to a traumatized nervous system, So relational withdrawal 195 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 2: is often an unconscious attempt to maintain safety. If I 196 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,319 Speaker 2: don't get close, I can't be hurt. Unfortunately, that protective 197 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 2: strategy can leave loved ones feeling rejected or shut out, 198 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 2: even though the desire for connection is still there underneath 199 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 2: the trauma. 200 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 3: All right, so you've given us a lot of really 201 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 3: good information. Now if you could give loved ones one 202 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 3: clinical reframe that could change how they interpret these behaviors. 203 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 3: What would it be? 204 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: I would say this, PTS behaviors are not about a 205 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 2: lack of love. They're about a lack of felt safety. 206 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 2: So when supporters understand that, it helps to shift the 207 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 2: question from why are they doing this to me? To 208 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 2: what might their nervousness and be experiencing right now? That 209 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 2: shift alone can transform how we respond because we don't 210 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 2: receive it as a personal attack that it helps us 211 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: to understand what they are experiencing that often they don't 212 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: have a whole lot of control over, especially when they 213 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 2: don't realize what they're doing. Friends, I think this is 214 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 2: a really important conversation about how to help love a 215 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 2: one struggling with PTSD. We want to continue this conversation, 216 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 2: So after this brief word from our sponsor, I want 217 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 2: to turn our attention to things that we can do 218 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 2: to help a loved one who's struggling with PTSD. We'll 219 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 2: be right back. 220 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 3: All right, well, welcome back to this episode on helping 221 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 3: a loved one with PTSD. We're going to turn our 222 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 3: attention now to what actually helps, what we need to do, 223 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 3: or what we can do. So, now that we understand 224 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 3: what PTSD does to the brain nervous system, and if 225 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 3: that person has someone in their life that desperately wants 226 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 3: to support them, well where should they start. 227 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 2: The most important place to start is with presence over 228 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 2: problem solving. Frequently, when we have a loved one in 229 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 2: any kind of pain, we want to make it better. 230 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 2: But clinically, a regulated nervous system helps regulate another nervous system. 231 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 2: You don't have to fix the trauma. In fact, let 232 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: me just tell you you can't. But your calm, consistent 233 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 2: presence helps communicate safety to a brain who's perceiving the 234 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 2: world is unsafe. So do number one offer presence not pressure? 235 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 3: Ugh, that's hard. That's hard for I mean for helpers, 236 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 3: especially because we just want to get in and fix it. 237 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 3: We don't want to see people in pain, so we 238 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 3: want to relieve that pain. So offering presence not pressure 239 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 3: is still something we're doing. Right. Presence is to do something. 240 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 3: But why is presence so powerful from a brain based. 241 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 2: Perspective because safety is the foundation of healing. When someone 242 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 2: sits with a traumatized person without demanding explanations, timelines, or solutions, 243 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 2: the brain begins to downshift out of survival mode. Simply 244 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 2: saying something like I'm here with you or you don't 245 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: have to go through this alone helps activate what we 246 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: call the parasympathetic nervous system. That's the part of the 247 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 2: body responsible for rest, connection and repair. So number two 248 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 2: is validate without trying to fix. 249 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 3: Validation is something we talk about often, but it can 250 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 3: feel awkward. So what does validation look like clinically and 251 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 3: what does does it not mean? 252 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: Validation means acknowledging someone's emotional experience without trying to change it. 253 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 2: So it sounds like that makes sense or I can 254 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 2: see how that would be so painful. Validation doesn't mean 255 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 2: you agree with every perception, but it means you honor 256 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 2: their experience and where it's coming from. From a neurological standpoint, 257 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 2: validation quiets someone's brain's alarm system and it helps to 258 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 2: reduce the emotional intensity. Now do Number three is learn 259 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 2: your loved one's triggers and early warning signs. 260 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 3: Okay, so, Michelle, Triggers are often misunderstood. How can loved 261 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 3: ones approach triggers in a supportive but not controlling way? 262 00:17:54,520 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 2: Triggers are really sensory or emotional cues that remind the 263 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 2: brain of past danger. They're not necessarily logical, and they're 264 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 2: not chosen. When a loved one learns triggers, collaboratively asking 265 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 2: gentle questions like what tends to make things harder? That 266 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 2: fosters teamwork instead of shame. And it also allows supporters 267 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 2: to notice early signs of dysregulation and intervene with calm 268 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 2: rather than intervening and reacting out of frustration, which can 269 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 2: be really hard. It really requires you to put your 270 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 2: own needs in your own reactions temporarily on a shelf 271 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 2: to help try to understand. And number four I would say, 272 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 2: encourage professional help but with gentleness. 273 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 3: Oh so okay. So many listeners feel stuck here. Yeah, 274 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 3: they know therapy could help, but they don't want to 275 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 3: push too hard. So could you tell us what healthy 276 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 3: encouragement looks like? 277 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 2: Healthy encouragement sounds like curiosity, not ultimatums. It can be 278 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 2: easy in our own emotional reaction to say things like, well, 279 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 2: if you would just get some help, that induces shame 280 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 2: and it puts your loved one on the defensiveness. Instead, 281 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 2: if you could approach it from a place of compassion 282 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 2: and trying to understand, you could say, would you be 283 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,719 Speaker 2: open to talking with someone who understands trauma? And what 284 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 2: that does is keeps agency intact. Clinically, healing happens best 285 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 2: when help feels chosen. Force treatment often increases resistance and fear, 286 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 2: especially for trauma survivors who already feel a loss of control. 287 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 2: My DO recommendation number five is to pray in ways 288 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 2: that help regulate, not overwhelm. 289 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 3: Okay, so let's talk about prayer then, Yeah, how can 290 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 3: loved ones pray in a way that actually helps someone 291 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 3: with PTSD? 292 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 2: Prayers should feel encouraging, not pressuring, keep it simple, and 293 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 2: ask permission. Pray for things like safety and peace in 294 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 2: God's nearness, not quick fixes. From a trauma informed faith perspective, 295 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 2: prayer should mirror God's gentleness. Scripture tells us he does 296 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 2: not break the bruise read, and neither should we. So, friends, 297 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 2: we've talked about five healthy things that we can do 298 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 2: to support loved ones who might be experiencing post traumatic 299 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 2: stress disorder. We're going to take a real short break 300 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 2: from a word from our sponsor, but stick with us 301 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 2: as we continue to discuss how to help a loved 302 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 2: one who's struggling with PTSD. After the break will turn 303 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 2: our attention to what not to do, We'll be right back. 304 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,479 Speaker 3: Welcome back to your hope Field perspective, where we are 305 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 3: discussing how to help a loved one with PTSD. For 306 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 3: the break, we gave you a list of things to do, 307 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 3: but now let's talk about the harder side of this. 308 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 3: But unintentionally causes harm. Michelle, what are the common mistakes 309 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 3: you see loved ones make even with the best intentions. 310 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 2: The most common mistakes come from misunderstanding trauma. So let's 311 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 2: work through a few that listeners may recognize. And while 312 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 2: we're at it, let's release the guilt. Don't Number one 313 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 2: is don't minimize, compare or try to rush healing. 314 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 3: So why are phrases like it could have been worse 315 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 3: or just try to move on so damaging? 316 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 2: Oh? Those statements minimize the nervous system's reality. Trauma healing 317 00:21:55,560 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 2: doesn't follow a timeline. It follows seeking for safe when 318 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 2: healing is rushed, shame increases, and the person learns my 319 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 2: pain is inconvenient. Just that belief alone can deepen symptoms 320 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 2: and relational distance. So number one, don't minimize, don't compare, 321 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 2: and don't try to rush your loved one's healing. Don't. 322 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 2: Number two is don't take trauma responses personally. 323 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 3: This one is hard, yeah, how it is loved on 324 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 3: it is so tell us how can loved ones avoid 325 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 3: internalizing PTSD behaviors. 326 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 2: By remembering that trauma responses are about perceived threat, not rejection. 327 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 2: When a loved one with draws, snaps, or shuts down, 328 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 2: it's not a reflection of how much they love you. 329 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 2: It's a reflection of how unsafe their nervous system feels 330 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 2: in that moment. So don't compare or minimize, don't take 331 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 2: trauma responses personally, and friends, I know this is hard, 332 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 2: I know it is. But if you understand that their 333 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 2: response is about perceived threat rather than a rejection of you, 334 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 2: that can help. Number three, don't force disclosure or emotional processing. 335 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 3: What would you say to the person who keeps asking 336 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 3: why won't they talk to me? 337 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 2: Healing requires having a choice. Forcing disclosure can actually retraumatize 338 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 2: someone by removing their sense of control. Most instances of trauma, 339 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 2: if not all, actually came in a situation where control 340 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 2: was stripped from someone. Clinically, trauma processing happens best in safe, 341 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 2: structured environments, not under relational pressure. Number four, don't try 342 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 2: to be their therapist or savior. 343 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 3: Helpers often slide into this role without realizing it, don't they. 344 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 2: They do because they want to help, but it's unsustainable. 345 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 2: Loved ones are not equipped to hold trauma narratives without support. 346 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 2: Trying to be everything can lead to a loved one's burnout, resentment, 347 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 2: and secondary trauma is so hard. I know it is 348 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 2: because we want to help. We want them to experience healing, 349 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 2: and we usually want it faster than the brain can 350 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 2: process healing. So don't try to be their therapist or 351 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 2: their savior. And number five, don't spiritually bypass pain. 352 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 3: This one sounds important. Can you explain what you mean 353 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 3: by spiritual bypassing? 354 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 2: Spiritual bypassing uses scripture or faith language to avoid emotional pain. 355 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 2: Its phrases like maybe if you just prayed more, or 356 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 2: I know this is hard, but remember God works all 357 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 2: things for good friends. While those statements are true, they 358 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 2: actually silence grief when they're spoken too soon. God doesn't 359 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 2: rush the healing, and yes, God can work all things 360 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 2: together for good, but it's usually not at a snap 361 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 2: of a finger. It's a process, and it's only when 362 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 2: we get further in our healing process that we can 363 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 2: look back and recognize the good that God is starting 364 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 2: to bring from it. God never bypasses pain, he enters 365 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 2: into it, and our support should do the same. 366 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 3: Michelle, you've provided such valuable information from a knowledgeable perspective. 367 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 3: Thank you. What hope filled perspective? Would you like to 368 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 3: leave our listeners and viewers with? 369 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 2: I want you to remember this. Loving someone with PTSD 370 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 2: is not about doing everything right. You'll never be able to, 371 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 2: but it's about doing your best with compassion. Understanding trauma 372 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 2: helps us respond with grace for them and for ourselves. 373 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 2: We know that trauma tends to isolate, but scripture affirms 374 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: the healing power of presence. So I want to leave 375 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 2: you with Ecclesiastes four nine through ten, which reminds us 376 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 2: two are better than one. If either one of them 377 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 2: falls down, one can help the other. Uh So I 378 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 2: applaud you in loving someone who is struggling with post 379 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 2: traumatic stress disorder and wanting to help. So I hope 380 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 2: today the tips that we gave about what to do 381 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 2: and what not to do in even greater understanding about 382 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 2: what is PTSD and word does it come from. I 383 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 2: hope that helps you better feel equipped to support your 384 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 2: loved one. Just now that we've come to the end 385 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 2: of today's episode, which I'm so glad we did because 386 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 2: I think it's such an important topic, would you close 387 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 2: us out in prayer for the loved ones who were 388 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 2: supporting those struggling as well as those who are struggling 389 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 2: with PTSD. 390 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 3: Yes, I'd be happy to. Let's pray. Heavenly Father, thank 391 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 3: you so much that you walk with us into our pain. 392 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 3: There's a passage that says that we go through waters, 393 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 3: but you are with us. Lord. I ask that you 394 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 3: would be with the person that's struggling with PTSD, Lord, 395 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 3: that you would wrap them in your loving arms. Lord, 396 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 3: that you would be their place of safety. Lord. I 397 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 3: pray for the one that's helping their loved one with 398 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 3: who's struggling, Lord, that you would empower and encourage them 399 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,959 Speaker 3: to enter into the pain instead of rushing to fix it. 400 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 3: That they would just sit in the pain with their 401 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 3: loved one, knowing that you are with them, that you 402 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 3: will guide them, that you are the healer and Lord, 403 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 3: that sometimes we get to be the person that you 404 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 3: work through and use. So, Lord, encourage and equip. Lord, 405 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 3: we ask that you would just continue to do a 406 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 3: mighty work in our hearts and our lives to bring 407 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 3: us into a deeper, hope filled relationsiationship with you. In Jesus' name. Amen. 408 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 2: Amen, friends. If you know a loved one who is 409 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 2: struggling with some of the signs and symptoms of PTSD, 410 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 2: thank you for caring for them. And if you know 411 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 2: someone who's walking alongside someone who's struggling, would you consider 412 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 2: sharing our previous episode about what is PTSD as well 413 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 2: as today's episode to bring them a biblically based hope 414 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 2: field perspective. I look forward to being with you again 415 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 2: for another episode of your Hopefield Perspective next week, But 416 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 2: in the meantime, it's my prayer for you that you 417 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 2: have a hope filled week. 418 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: Your ragged and torn past may be the key to 419 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: God's future for you. We all endure trials, pain, and 420 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: hardship in this life. Too often we believe these experiences 421 00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: disqualify us from being useful to God. The truth is, 422 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: your past pain and brokenness serve as preparation for what 423 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: God wants to do in and through you, if you 424 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: will surrender to entrust Him in Sacred scars. Neuropsychologist and 425 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: fellow sufferer, doctor Michelle Thankson helps you understand the suffering 426 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: from a biblical perspective. Discover how the trials of your 427 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: life serve a purpose. Reflect on the healing that God 428 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: has accomplished, and comfort others, but the comfort God has 429 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: given you. Just as Jesus's scars didn't disappear after his 430 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: resurrection and confirmed that he was who he said he 431 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: was and that he did what he said he'd do, 432 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: our emotional or physical scars tell our story and lend 433 00:29:54,600 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 1: credence to our testimony of God's love and power. You 434 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: are ready to turn your past pain into present comfort 435 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: and future hope. Let doctor Benkson be your compassionate guide. 436 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: Jill Savage, host of the No More Perfect Podcast and 437 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: author of No More Perfect Marriages, have this to say 438 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: about sacred scars. While we wish for a pain free life, 439 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: the dark seasons are where God invites us into the 440 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: most growth. In the pages of this book, you will 441 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: come to understand how God uses pain in powerful ways. 442 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: If you're human, you need this book. Pick up a 443 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: copy of Sacred Scars wherever books are sold, and watch 444 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: God turn your pain into purpose. 445 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 4: Thank you for joining doctor Mankson to your hope build perspective. 446 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 4: We hope you are encouraged by her authenticity, vulnerability, and 447 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 4: biblical truths. You enjoyed today's conversation. When you take a 448 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 4: moment right now, open up your podcast app and look 449 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 4: for the subscribe button right next to our podcast profile image. 450 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 4: We think this podcast is best enjoyed with friends, so 451 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 4: tell a friend and click share in your podcast app 452 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 4: and send a friend our link to share Hope with them. 453 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 4: If you have a comment, question, or suggest a topic 454 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 4: for a future show, reach out to our staff at 455 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 4: info at Hope Prevails dot org for additional resources. Information 456 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 4: about doctor Bankson's books where free downloads, or to contact 457 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 4: her to speak at your next event, Please visit doctor 458 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 4: Mishelbe dot com. Until next time, May you have a 459 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 4: hope filled week. 460 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 2: I'd like to take just a second to thank the 461 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 2: team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on 462 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 2: this podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com, you'll 463 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 2: find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in their network. 464 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 2: They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.