1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Life audio. 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 2: I was counseling this couple, neat blue collar couple. So 3 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 2: I went and I sat down in my office. He's 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 2: six four, three hundred and twenty five pound giant meat 5 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 2: club hands, rip your face off by you know, kind 6 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 2: of you know, credator parton. And I just looked at him. 7 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 2: I said, you, guys, I got to take some I 8 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 2: love you guys, but you just don't seem to get it. 9 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 2: And I said, there's a saying that John Wayne said, 10 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 2: if you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough. And 11 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: the room went silent, and he started leaning into me 12 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 2: and glowering, and she started staring at him. I thought, Okay, 13 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 2: this guy's gonna kill me right now. And then all 14 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 2: of a sudden, she erupts into laughter. She says, he 15 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 2: has that closter in his office. Oh, and I thought, okay, 16 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 2: Holy Spirit, I'll think that one is a win. But 17 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 2: I realize this, Jeremy, like I know what I'm capable of. 18 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 2: I am one choice away from stupid. The best way 19 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 2: for us to prevent stupid is to establish boundaries and 20 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: guardrails in our lives, to kind of keep us between 21 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 2: the rails. Let's just establish some firm boundaries to protect 22 00:00:58,200 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 2: your marriage and make it unbreakable. 23 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: Ollhen, Welcome to the March or Die Show today. Glad 24 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: to have you joining once again. This is the show 25 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: where we do our best every single episode to give 26 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: you both the perspectives and principles you need to march 27 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: when it would be easier to stay where you are 28 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: and die. And we know that so often there are 29 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: things that pop up in our lives that would prevent 30 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: forward motion, and we need the right principles, the right perspectives, 31 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: the right instruction, the right help, the right community to 32 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: take that next step. And that's what we're all about 33 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: here today. If you haven't subscribed to the show, please 34 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: do that right now wherever you're listening from. All Right, 35 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: it's all I want to say, because I'm excited about 36 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: our guest today. Our guest is none other than Jim Ramos. 37 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: Jim has been with us before. We've had a lot 38 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: of wonderful conversations and I cannot recommend his ministry and 39 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: his work more highly than I do and talk about 40 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: Jim all the time and share his content and his 41 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: books with men that I know and very very thankful 42 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 1: for you. Jim. Thanks for coming back on. We're gonna 43 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: talk about your new book here in just a second, 44 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: but more than anything, I'm just happy to have the 45 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: opportunity to talk to you. So thanks for coming on. 46 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: And if we get nothing else out of it, we'll 47 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: get a conversation. 48 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 2: And I saw your name on the pot. I had 49 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 2: three shows today I'm on and I saw your name. 50 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 2: At the end of the day. I'm like, I love 51 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: that guy. 52 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: I quote that. 53 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 2: Guy all the time. I just I just love the chemistry. 54 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: It's just really fun to connect with guys that have 55 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 2: the same DNA. So thanks so much. Man, it's just 56 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 2: an honor to be on your showy fir no. 57 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: Oh, it's awesome. And you just wrote a great new book, 58 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: which I want to spend some time talking about, but 59 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: before we do. For those aren't familiar with your work, 60 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: you do a number of things. Author, best selling author, 61 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: number one men's Christian men's podcast, I Think in the 62 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: Country Still, and the founder of Men in the Arena. 63 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: So your focus is men. Your ministry is to men. 64 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: It's helping men, equipping men, strengthening men. So I wanted 65 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: to start there. As you look at kind of the 66 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: landscape of men We'll say specifically in the United States. 67 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: You can't speak for everywhere, I guess, but the men 68 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: around us. What is your maybe your current assessment of 69 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: where men are, where Christian men are. Are we doing good? 70 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: Are we doing bad? Are we moving the right direction? 71 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: How do you see things right now? 72 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: Man, You're going to be shocked to hear this, because 73 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 2: guys my age in the Christian world, we love to 74 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: do a doomsday report. But I am seeing the opposite. 75 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 2: So let me tell you what I'm seeing. I'm a 76 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 2: paid Christian. I've been a paid Christian all my life, 77 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: so I have to find ways to be a Christian 78 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: without being paid. So I volunteer with an organization I 79 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: love called Young Life, and I volunteer as a chaplain 80 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: for a Division three university football team, Lynnfield University. They 81 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: have the most consecutive wins winning seasons, the most in 82 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: the country all divisions. They've had sixty eight years of 83 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 2: winning seasons straight. Wow, it's a good program. And they 84 00:03:55,520 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 2: call it they jokingly call it Sinfield University because of 85 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: you know, they played Chapman Redmond. You probably know Redmond, Redlands, Redlands, 86 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 2: Sorry Redlands, Chapman. 87 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: My my daughter went to Chapman, so very familiar school. 88 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: They played Chapman every year, so this is Lynnfield. They 89 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: beat Chapman this year, But it goes back and forth, 90 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: so it's really interesting. When I first started the chaplain 91 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 2: position as a volunteer, it was it was a kind 92 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 2: of a figurehead position. I just stepped into it and 93 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 2: did what they told me I had. I did nothing else. 94 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 2: I just took their orders and went with them. So 95 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 2: I don't I don't want to put myself in the 96 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: mix at all. About three years ago, something cool started happening. 97 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: He got the young the athletes, without any prompting for me, 98 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 2: started going in the end zone to pray before the game. 99 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 2: It's about three or four of them. I thought, man, 100 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 2: this is I mean, Catholics, Protestants, you know, Orthodoxist, it 101 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 2: didn't matter. I thought, this is really cool. We got 102 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 2: four or five guys in the end zone praying before 103 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: the games. Lack. Two seasons ago, we had thirty guys 104 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 2: in the end zone praying before the games. Now, this 105 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 2: is a Division three school. These are not scholarship athletes. 106 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 2: These are guys that play because they love the game. 107 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: So the rosters are typically pretty big, one hundred and 108 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: thirty guys on a roster and at home games they 109 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 2: suit them all out. So every home game this year 110 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 2: this year, ninety men in the end zone praying wow. 111 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 2: And what we've learned is we are experiencing And we 112 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 2: see this with Ohio State University, we saw this with 113 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: the Oregon Ducks. We see this across the board with 114 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: all these universities. And I think what happened post COVID 115 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 2: is the pendulum is swinging because we've been We've given 116 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 2: young people permission to be any gender they want. They 117 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 2: can have multiple genders, they can be an animal if 118 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 2: they want, they can identify with anything they want, they 119 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 2: can have sex with whatever they want. Everything's okay. Now. 120 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: The problem is that I think that these gen Z men, 121 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 2: it's really started with the men have realized that they've 122 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 2: been lied to and the pendulum is swinging. And somewhere 123 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 2: in that pendulum swing, the Holy Spirit has got a 124 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: hold of a nation. And for the last two years 125 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: probably I would say that we are in the middle 126 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: of a gen Z revival that is starting with men, 127 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 2: specifically college athletes. Before the season this year even started, 128 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 2: before it started, I love to do Santa Maria to 129 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 2: stall barbecue. I've got a Santa Mary steel barbecue pit 130 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: from San Luis, Obispo, hauled it up, towed it up, 131 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 2: and we barbecued for about eighty five ninety kids showed 132 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 2: up a volunteer and afterwards we put a horse trough 133 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 2: on the fifteen yard line. And before the season, these 134 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: athletes baptized fifteen of their teammates before the season ever started. 135 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 2: And so what I'm saying is there is something happening, Jeremy, 136 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: with young men right now in our country that these 137 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: the guys like you and I, the older guys, we 138 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: need to jump on board because God is doing something 139 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 2: very very special right now. There is a deep hunger 140 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 2: and you've probably heard the statistic. Right now in America 141 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 2: there are more gen z men I'm talking twenty five 142 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 2: and younger gen z men in churches and women. 143 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: Yeah right now. Yeah, So if if that's true, and 144 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: it is true, I believe it's true. I'm not questioning 145 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: what you're saying. So that being true, let me say 146 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: like that, Yes, what do men our age need to do? 147 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: So what's what do we do to encourage that to 148 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: make sure it doesn't just fizzle out? Because there was 149 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: no one there to lead the way. 150 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what here, Well, I love you. I 151 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 2: quote you all the time you have I've written, I've 152 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 2: read one hundred books on leadership, and the one definition 153 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 2: that sticks is from Jeremy Stallnecker. Leadership is taking people 154 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 2: from where they are to where they need to be. 155 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: Did I get that right? 156 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: That's great, man, It's fantastic, and it's great to hear 157 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: you say it. So you're like, I'm being quoted, I'd 158 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: be wonderful, wonderful. 159 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: So, so if that's the case, if leadership is truly 160 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 2: taking somebody from where they are to where they need 161 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: to be. And I'm a I just turned sixty, your forty, 162 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: howldy forties. I'll be fifty this year, fifty this year. 163 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 2: So we're we're a same generation at decade apart. So 164 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 2: if we're really gonna do what you say a leader 165 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: should do, then what we need to do is look 166 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 2: at this generation. These are these are the COVID kids. 167 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 2: These are the kids who I think, I think despise polarization. 168 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 2: These are kids who they can see they have a 169 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 2: BS detector, they want authentic Christianity. And these are kids 170 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 2: who are raised fifty percent of kids today experience divorce. 171 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 2: Forty percent of children born today are born out of wedlock. 172 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: So if you take those numbers and combine them, we 173 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 2: are looking at maybe seventy out of every one hundred 174 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: boys is born without a father in the home, a 175 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 2: biological father. So this generation, it's really cool because it 176 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 2: used to be with our generation, the old guys. We 177 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 2: didn't listen to the old guys. We want to listen 178 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 2: to young guys. But now what are they doing. They're 179 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 2: listening to Jim Ramos, Jeremy Stallnecker. I'm gonna quote Joe Rogan, 180 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 2: who's a coming close to Jesus, Cameron Haynes, who's a 181 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 2: brand new Christian. Are a Christian? You know? How about 182 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 2: Sean Sean Ryan, here's a brand new Christian. He doesn't 183 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 2: even know how to pray. And this cass and these 184 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 2: young guys are going, I just want to follow a man, 185 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 2: and I don't care how old he is. So for 186 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 2: guys like you and I, the best thing we can 187 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 2: do is to create an example, just as Pauldon and 188 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 2: Flipping's three seventeen that says, follow my example as I 189 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: follow Christ. Simple. 190 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. We you know We talk about legacy 191 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: a lot throughout the context of our programs. We talk 192 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: about legacy and what are you going to leave behind 193 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: and all of that, and I think we need to 194 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: open the aperture. It sounds like, instead of thinking about 195 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,679 Speaker 1: legacy even just in terms of our own reputation or 196 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: our family, which is typically how I would communicate that, 197 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 1: what are you leaving for your kids? What are you 198 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: leaving for your family? It needs to be us answering 199 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: the question, particularly as men, and you know, many have 200 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: lived a little while, what are we leaving for this 201 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: generation that doesn't have a dad, that doesn't have anyone 202 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: to look to. Your legacy can be bigger than even 203 00:09:58,480 --> 00:09:59,079 Speaker 1: your circle. 204 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, they are hungry. 205 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: You know. 206 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 2: I hear Christians all the time. I hear this all 207 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 2: the time, Christian men bad mouthing Joe Rogan. 208 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: Joe Rogan. 209 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 2: Hey, let's look at Joe Rogan. He's a truth seeker. 210 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 2: He's he's coming closer and closer to Jesus. He is 211 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 2: a fifty three or four year old man who's been 212 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 2: married to the same woman all of his life. He's fit, right, 213 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 2: he's you know, and I think a lot of these 214 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 2: guys are going just give me an example to follow. Now, 215 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 2: I believe Rogan is going to become a Christian and 216 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: just change everything in our culture. Some of these guys 217 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 2: like Sean Ryan are but I think for guys like 218 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 2: you and me, it's just being authentic men of God 219 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 2: who are saying, Hey, man, I'm going to tell you 220 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 2: my faults. I'm going to tell you my flaws. You 221 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 2: and I grew up with preachers who had no flaws, right, 222 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 2: they had no flaws until they did. We see a 223 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 2: Philip Yancey fall, and we see a Rabbi Zacharias fall. 224 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 2: We feel Bill Ibel's fall. And so our generation is 225 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 2: a little bit different. Our generation is saying, hey, we 226 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: got flaws, were broken, but follow us anyway, follow us 227 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 2: on the journey. And so I think as Jeremy Stallnecker 228 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 2: and as Mighty Oak Foundation takes men on the journey 229 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 2: with them, I think that's the best thing we can 230 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: do is give these young guys an authentic example to follow. 231 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 2: Broken this at all. 232 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: So I'll tell you this. And we haven't talked much 233 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: about this, but in the background for about a year, 234 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: we've been developing a platform to produce content specifically for 235 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: men and aimed at young men. We'll release it later 236 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: on this year. You've been doing this forever. Others have 237 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: been doing this for a long time. But what we 238 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: found is because of the work we do, particularly with military. YEA, 239 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: we have men's and women's programs, but a lot of 240 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: men come into our program and then they're going, now 241 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: what do I do? And they have sons that they're 242 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 1: trying to train and teach and understand what do we do? Probably, 243 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 1: I know we've been talking about this for a long 244 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: time organizationally, but it's probably been eight months, nine months, 245 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: and I've just felt such a burden for like, these 246 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: guys who are they don't have anyone to look to, right, 247 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: I have two sons. I think probably part of it 248 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: is my age and my kids are getting older. I 249 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: have a twenty four year old son. I have a 250 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 1: sixteen year old son, and so it's it's like who's 251 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: leading these other kids? And and we do have an 252 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,959 Speaker 1: opportunity and we need to take advantage of it. Man, 253 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: I'd like to spend the whole episode talking about that, 254 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,079 Speaker 1: but that creates a great segue into your new book 255 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: and and and in part because in this man, it 256 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: makes me so angry, but cautiously angry, because I know 257 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 1: what the Bible says, right key, lest you fall. Yes, 258 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: and I get it and I believe it. And you 259 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: know you've said, you know, as you work through this 260 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: this book, or work through this book, you get to 261 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 1: the NDV chapter and you kind of declare, I need 262 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: these guardrails because I can fall or I can fail. 263 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: I believe that. But man, we're seeing one Christian leader 264 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: after another fall, and by fall, I mean specifically into 265 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: sexual sin. Men like Philippi Ancy you mentioned this, been 266 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: married for decades, fifty plus years writers, Yeah, and then 267 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: you know, confess to an affair that went on for 268 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: a long time and a lot of things we don't 269 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: know about. And so in contrast to the opportunity we 270 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: have with these young men to provide an example, we're 271 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: getting very close to that edge where we're going to 272 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: start disenfranchising young men because they're going to look at 273 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: us and say, those guys don't know what they're talking 274 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: about either. So you wrote this book, it comes out 275 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: in just a couple of weeks as we record this, 276 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: I think guardrails ten boundaries for an unbreakable marriage. Let's 277 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: just start right there, and why'd you write it, why 278 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: is it important to you right now? And what do 279 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: you hope to see happen from this book? 280 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? Man, So I don't know your spiritual story, but 281 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 2: mine is. I was born and raised non Christian athlete, 282 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 2: came to Christ at eighteen through a football coach, went 283 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 2: away to college, lived like hell for four years. Long series, 284 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 2: long story short, came to Christ, started living for Christ, 285 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 2: got into ministry six months after So in nineteen ninety 286 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 2: I went into full time ministry, no education, no nothing, 287 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 2: and the quer I was in charge with you for 288 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 2: Christ's campus life for San Louis Bisbo County. And then 289 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 2: I married my wife. She was in that she brought 290 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 2: a sexual past. We had both gotten saved, lived in 291 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 2: sexual purity, met fell in love, got married without living together, 292 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 2: without having sex together, and the first night we had 293 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: sex was on our wedding night. But both of us realized, okay, 294 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: we're in ministry. People are looking at us. We both 295 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 2: are a very much this kind of personality type. So 296 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 2: we had a very high maintenance marriage and we thought, 297 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 2: how do we establish an unbreakable which is the subtitle 298 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 2: of the book, marriage when we're very broken? People who 299 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 2: are struggling and limping along in this marriage. And so 300 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 2: we knew that the marriage needed to have momentum, and 301 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 2: that momentum could only be established if we created boundaries 302 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 2: within the marriage things that we would never do. So 303 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 2: the subtitle of each of the there's ten guardrails in 304 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 2: this book, an eleventh bonus chapter right in the middle 305 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: of the book for single men. So because our guardrails 306 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 2: really guardrails really start when you're single. They start when 307 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 2: you're sixteen, when you're twenty four, Hey, I'm not going 308 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 2: to have sex until i'm married. Hey I'm not going 309 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 2: to live in move in with my girlfriend outside of marriage. 310 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 2: You know, they start at that age building guardrails so 311 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 2: that we will as we deserve the bride that we 312 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 2: that we decide on. So it's about deserving the bride 313 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 2: that you desire, deserving the bride that you or I 314 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 2: have already decided on and married. So we established these 315 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 2: ten things that we would never do, and they really 316 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 2: have been and they're all based on our love and 317 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 2: relationship with Jesus and what the Bible says. Everything comes 318 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 2: back to that. The problem when you write a book 319 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 2: is that people don't want to read a book about 320 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 2: what not to do. So each of the chapters is 321 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 2: positively titled with biblical teaching on what we can do 322 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 2: to avoid these pitfalls. I was counseling this couple, non 323 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 2: Christian couple, and I was gonna go drive to their appointment, 324 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 2: and they'd had a fifteen year struggle in their marriage. 325 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 2: He's a welder and nice, neat, neat, blue collar couple, 326 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 2: and they've just been frustrating me because they won't take 327 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 2: Jesus as their savior. They tend to not listen to 328 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 2: my advice and they kept coming to me, and I 329 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 2: was driving to the meeting. I was like, God, I 330 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 2: don't know tell these people. And I felt like the 331 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 2: Holy Spirit quoted John Wayne. I'm not kiddy, it's I've 332 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 2: never I don't know if God's that they were quoted 333 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 2: somebody to you that's not you know, so God quote, 334 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 2: you know, like God quoted John Wayne and said if 335 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 2: you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough. And I'm like, 336 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: I am not telling him that, I'm not gonna quote 337 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 2: John Wayne. Come on, This isn't the Holy Spirit. It 338 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 2: was a I had a bad piece of pizza or 339 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: something so I went and I sat down in the 340 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 2: in my office. He's six four, three hundred and twenty 341 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 2: five pounds, giant meat club hands, rip your face off. 342 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 2: I just, you know, kind of you know, Predator part 343 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 2: two times, you know, And I just looked at him. 344 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 2: I said, you, guys, I gotta tell you some I 345 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 2: love you, guys, know it. I've been working with you 346 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 2: for fifteen years, but you just don't seem to get it. 347 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 2: And I go, if you heard of John Wayne? And 348 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 2: they said yes, and he got a little sparkle in 349 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 2: his eye, like Okay, this guy understands who John Wayne is. 350 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 2: And I said, there's a saying that John Wayne said, 351 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 2: if you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough. And 352 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 2: the room went silent, and he started leaning into me 353 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 2: and glowering, and she started staring at him, and I thought, Okay, 354 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 2: this guy's gonna kill me right now. And then all 355 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 2: of a sudden, she erupts into laughter and she says 356 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 2: he has that poster in his office. Oh, And I thought, okay, 357 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,479 Speaker 2: Holy Spirit, I'll think that one is a win. But 358 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,679 Speaker 2: I realize this, Jeremy, like I know what I'm capable of. 359 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 2: I am one choice away from stupid. 360 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: Yep. 361 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 2: And the best way to protect against stupid, you know, 362 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 2: Forrest Gump, the theologian. Forrest Gump said, stupid is as 363 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 2: stupid does. So the best way for us to prevent 364 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 2: stupid is to establish boundaries and guardrails in our lives 365 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 2: to kind of keep us forgive the pun between the rails. 366 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 2: And that's what this book is all about. It. It's like, hey, guys, 367 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 2: don't don't get off into some weird uh, you know, 368 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 2: shoulder off the side of the road that's going to 369 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 2: drift you into the stupid land. Let's just establish some 370 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 2: firm boundaries to protect your marriage and make it unbreakable. 371 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: That's good. I like, I really like the title of it, 372 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: because man, so often when you talk to couples and 373 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 1: you're talking particularly to I don't know what the generation 374 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: would be, thirty five and younger something married people, they say, 375 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: they say, like, don't tell me what to do. Don't 376 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 1: you have the guardrails conversation with them? Right? And it's 377 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: it's like, well, we should. We're mature, we're adults for 378 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: all these things. And I have you know, over here, 379 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: you can't see where I'm pointing, but over here. I 380 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: have two shelves of marriage books, and none of them 381 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,479 Speaker 1: say here are the guardrails you need to stay between, 382 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: and here's what you need to avoid if you want 383 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: to have a good marriage. It's all like twelve Steps 384 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: toward a Happy Marriage. And there's some great books, right, 385 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,360 Speaker 1: they're all great. I'm not I'm not down on them, 386 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 1: but I liked that you didn't even go there. You 387 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: just said, all right, look, here are the boundaries. This 388 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: is what you need to do and what you need 389 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: to stay away from if you want to have an 390 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: unbreakable marriage. How do you address the pushback from someone 391 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: and maybe it's just quoting John Wayne, you want to 392 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: be stupid, you need to be tough. But how do 393 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: you address the pushback from someone that says, look, we're adults. 394 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: That's that's not the way it's done anymore. 395 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. We So we've had over sixty million video views 396 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 2: of our Guardrails teachings and about ninety percent of that 397 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 2: is positive. Ten to fifteen percent are people saying you're 398 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 2: a misogynist, objectifying women, you don't trust your wife. And 399 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 2: my comment is this, Hey, man, I am not that guy, 400 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 2: but I know what I'm capable of. And I know 401 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 2: what that guy's capable of. And I know what my wife, 402 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 2: God bless her as holy and as godly she is, 403 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 2: is capable of. And my job as a man is 404 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 2: to protect our marriage. And I would say this, I 405 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 2: would say this. In the military, you have rules of engagement, 406 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 2: you have SOPs. Right, those are those are guardrails, those 407 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 2: are standards, those are limits, those are boundaries. They're not evil. 408 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 2: They're made to keep you to perform in a way 409 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 2: that is excellent. Right. We have speed limits in America. 410 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 2: You can't murder in our if your murder is illegal. 411 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 2: These are all laws as well, but their laws to keep 412 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 2: us from going over the edge. So, yes, I may 413 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 2: be a little legalistic. Yes I have boundaries. Yes I 414 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 2: have objectives, and they are designed because I know the 415 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 2: evil that I am inherently capable of as a sinner, 416 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: and I want to which we You know, the Bible 417 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 2: says in Psalm one nineteen verse nine, it says, how 418 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 2: can a young man keep his way pure by living 419 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 2: according to your words? So the word of God is 420 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 2: our guardrail. But here's a beautiful thing about this, Jeremy. 421 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 2: The word that God uses for way in the Bible 422 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 2: is the Hebrew word ork. Ork sounds like a lord 423 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 2: of the rings, like troll or something right anyway, or 424 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 2: is a word that described what happened when chariots went 425 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 2: through a muddy area. They created a rut. And in 426 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 2: Oregon we still can see the ruts from the Oregon 427 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 2: Trail and the three hundred thousand people that came here 428 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 2: from eighteen forty one to fifty one. And those ruts 429 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 2: let us down the way. And so what God is 430 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 2: saying is the way that God has for us is 431 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 2: by living in this rut, in this boundary that God 432 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 2: has established through his word. And we have to be 433 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 2: very careful to adhere to the word of God, so 434 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 2: we can stay in the way of God. 435 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: That's good man, that's so good man. There's a lot 436 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: there so here, there's so much right. But in the 437 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: introduction you say this and I love this, or the 438 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: introduction that I have. Adultery doesn't begin in a bedroom. 439 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: It starts with a personal text to a female coworker, 440 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,239 Speaker 1: a compliment to a waitress, or direct message to an 441 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: old classmate or ex girlfriend. And one of the phrases 442 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: I hate is that you know he or sha or 443 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: whoever fell into sin or they fell into adulterree, it's 444 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 1: like this thing, this idea where they're going about their business, 445 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: they're looking at the right things, they're sharing the gospel 446 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: with the lost, and they trip over something they didn't 447 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: see and now they're in bed with a naked woman. Right, 448 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: And it's like this diminishing of the sin that's involved. 449 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: I think in all that and whatever, but when I 450 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: think about guardrails and people saying you should you should 451 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: be mature enough not to do that, and all the 452 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: things they would say, the guardrails aren't in place to 453 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: prevent you from getting into bed with someone that you're 454 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: not married to. The guardrails exist to keep you from 455 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: going down the number of steps that are required to 456 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: find yourself in a room with the person you're not 457 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: married to. And I think people misunderstand that. I'm not 458 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: saying you're not mature enough to have dinner and see 459 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: an attractive waitress and not end up in a hotel 460 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: room with her. What I'm saying is you need the 461 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: right pieces in place that keep you from two months 462 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: from now ending up in a hotel room without waitress. Right. 463 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: And I don't know if that's the right characteristic characterization. 464 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: But that's how I think about this. It's like this 465 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: prevents you from ending up over there. 466 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, an adulterous affair, a sexual betrayal of your marital covenant, 467 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 2: is the fruit of compounding stupid decisions over time. You have, 468 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 2: through a series of decisions, placed yourself in that situation. 469 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 2: And you know, that's why it's so important for us 470 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 2: as men to adhere to a standard. And you know, 471 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 2: obviously the standard is a word of God, but we've 472 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 2: seen so many godly men fall. We know it's more 473 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 2: than that. We know it's adhering to the word of God, 474 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 2: but it's also living according to wisdom. I mean, for example, 475 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 2: you've seen King Solomon in a Psalm five saying, hey, 476 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 2: don't let your seed flow into the streets. May your 477 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 2: wife be a loving dough, a precious hind. May her 478 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 2: breasts satisfy you always. Well, that same guy who wrote 479 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 2: that in Proverbs five is the same guy in One 480 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: Kings ten thirteen who gave the Queen of Sheba all 481 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 2: all she desired and had a thousand wives of his own. 482 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 2: So even though we have wisdom from the world over here, 483 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 2: I'm afraid we can't always follow the example of some 484 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 2: of the guys that told us that. So we have 485 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 2: to adhere to something more than just what we read. 486 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 2: We have to adhere to human experience, we have to 487 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 2: appear to we have to adhere to the signs of 488 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 2: our times. There's just so much going on there. And 489 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 2: I don't think that we're stupid, but I think that 490 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 2: we tend to act that way because there's so many 491 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 2: other things driving us, and there's just some simple, low 492 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 2: hanging fruit ways for us to make our marriage unbreakable. 493 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: That's good. One of the things that you have done 494 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: that is a little bit unique, not entirely, but a 495 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 1: little bit unique, is you've written this with your wife 496 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: and with her input. So, first of all, what does 497 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: that conversation sound like when you go to your wife 498 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 1: and say we need to write this book. I want 499 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: you to be a part of it. How does she 500 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: respond to it? And then what did her input do 501 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: as in terms of how you communicated this. 502 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 2: So she wrote three hundred words sections at the end 503 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 2: of each guard rail specifically targeting women because and this 504 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 2: is not a marriage book, this is a how to 505 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 2: not be stupid book for men, Right, so my wife 506 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 2: comes alongside and she says to women, Hey, women, you're 507 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 2: guilty too. And so she comes in with her perspective. 508 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 2: And my wife is not a writer she but she 509 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 2: is a straightforward, straight shooting woman, and so she comes 510 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 2: in from a woman's perspective because I really wanted I 511 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 2: wanted her to come in and compliment what I'm saying 512 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 2: to men as something that's not just a man problem, 513 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 2: but it's also a woman problem. She wrote the book 514 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 2: with a perspective of, Hey, you know, when my wife 515 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 2: has a flight attendant has a customer teller, Wow, you 516 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 2: have beautiful eyes that match your flight attendant dress, my 517 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 2: wife knows instantly what that guy's thinking, and so she deflects. 518 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 2: So we want to write a very raw book that said, hey, 519 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 2: this is what is really going on in the heart 520 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 2: of a minister, right, you know at a Bible study 521 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 2: when a woman hugs him frontal. Yeah, so it's in 522 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 2: a lot of ways, it's pretty raw, which makes it 523 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 2: pretty unique as well. 524 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that perspective I think for men is important, 525 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: but there are so many women. I've had this conversation 526 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: over and over again. Well, men shouldn't be that way. 527 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: They shouldn't think that way, they shouldn't act that way. 528 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: And it's almost like, well, I'm sorry, I agree with you. 529 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: I don't disagree with you. I shouldn't think that way. 530 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: I shouldn't feel that way. You know, sin is horrible. 531 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: It corrupts everything, and it's corrupted me. And so you 532 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: can pretend that that's not a reality, or you can 533 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: look at the slew of men who have been preaching 534 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: the same thing for decades and have fallen and just 535 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: acknowledge it is true, whether we want to acknowledge it 536 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: or you know, believe it or not. 537 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 2: Well, I had a conversation with a man. I preached 538 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 2: a sermon on an Old Testament character who was raped 539 00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 2: and in the Bible, and then the rape was a 540 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 2: It was is all bad on all ends of things. 541 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 2: But I use that as a springboard just say, hey, ladies, 542 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 2: just to let you ladies know how we're wired. And 543 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 2: I think one of the greatest inventions in the last 544 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 2: twenty years for a man to wander is this this 545 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 2: two word thing called yoga pants. Sure, yeah, I said 546 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 2: you should not wear yoga pants where you are covering 547 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 2: your bod. I was at physical therapy. I say this 548 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 2: twenty two year old girls run around yoga pants. I'm like, 549 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 2: are you kidding me? 550 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: I mean? 551 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 2: And so I had a guy come up to me 552 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 2: and basically said, I've got daughters and how dare you 553 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 2: put that on my daughters? And I said, hold on 554 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 2: a second, I'm not blaming your daughter's for my eyes. 555 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 2: Do when they bend over in their yoga pants and 556 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 2: expose their seat through g string, that's I'm not putting 557 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 2: that on them. But what I am putting on women 558 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 2: is this. You know your body. You know how men 559 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 2: are wired. So treat men as you would treat a 560 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 2: brother in Christ, and don't do anything to cause that 561 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 2: guy to stumble. And the same thing with us as men, 562 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 2: we need be very careful. Women are not as visual us. 563 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 2: We need to be very careful how we compliment a woman. 564 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 2: We need to be very careful how we notice a woman. 565 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 2: Because we can use words to get a woman to 566 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 2: do the same things with us that she would do 567 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:13,719 Speaker 2: to lure us with her body. 568 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: That's good. I've I've found you know, I haven't been 569 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: married as long as you because I'm not as old 570 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: as you. 571 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 2: But well that's a shot over the bow, bro. 572 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: I have been married a while though, so my wife 573 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 1: and I will be twenty eight years this year. 574 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 2: It's awesome. 575 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is. And I always say it's because 576 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,719 Speaker 1: she loves God more than she loves me. It's the 577 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: only reason we've made it this long. But what I 578 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: have found and I've made a lot of mistakes, but 579 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: when we talk about boundaries, there are things that I 580 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: won't do, in places I won't go, and you know, 581 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: all those things that contrary to her feeling like I'm 582 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: being misogynistic or objectifying women, she feels secure, she feels safe, 583 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: and she feels like I care about her that it 584 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: is an honoring of her. Not can't control myself, for 585 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: she knows me. It's that it's not that I can't 586 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: control myself, for I'm gonna go crazy. It's that I 587 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: care about my wife too much, yep to even put 588 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: myself in a position where something something like that would happen. 589 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: And I think that's missed. Yeah. 590 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 2: So it's My last chapter is called build a Wall, 591 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 2: and no it's not about Mexico and America border. It's 592 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 2: about a Greek word in the Bible, which you'll appreciate. This. 593 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 2: You wrote a wonderful book on leadership. And in the 594 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 2: in the book dialed In, which is right over my shoulder, 595 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 2: here I wrote a chapter called the Leader. And as 596 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 2: I when I wrote that book, I discovered a he, 597 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 2: a Greek word that Paul uses to describe a leader. 598 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 2: And he uses more more words to describe the leader 599 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 2: than all other nineteen qualifications of a spiritual leader combined. 600 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 2: And as I began to unpack that, I had a 601 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 2: huge revelation and I included it in this book. The 602 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 2: last chapter, which is called build a wall. Never assume 603 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 2: your wife is living by your standards. Stay engaged. And 604 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 2: the Greek word. You'll love this word. As have you 605 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 2: heard this You read the last book, so you probably 606 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 2: know allry. But the Greek word is price, to mind 607 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 2: and proise. To mind means three things. It means to preside, 608 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 2: to protect, and provide. So God showed me a picture 609 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 2: of a house. So my job as the leader the 610 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 2: Bible the word that Paul uses manager he who manages 611 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 2: his household. Well, my job is to provide a covering 612 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 2: over my wife and my kids. But specifically, in the 613 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 2: context of this book, my wife that she feels secure 614 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 2: in the relationship, she has covered. She knows I have 615 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 2: her back and I have her front. The second definition 616 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 2: is to protect. She knows that she has a man 617 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 2: who is going to set up a perimeter, right, and 618 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 2: I'm not gonna let anything inside the wire. I'm going 619 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 2: to monitor her news stations. I'm gonna regulate her relationship, 620 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 2: not even regulate. I want her to do the same 621 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 2: for me. But my job is to keep intervelopers from 622 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 2: coming in to her and changing in her heart and 623 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 2: her mind. And then lastly, is within every home, we 624 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 2: have these other rooms than are these walls that delineate rooms. Right, 625 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 2: So you have a room for your child, your two boys, 626 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 2: you have a room for your wife. Your twenty four 627 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,959 Speaker 2: year old will get married soon, if he's not already, 628 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 2: you have a room for his wife. And so we 629 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 2: need to protect the hearts of those within our household. 630 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 2: So for me, that means I need to uh. There's 631 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,959 Speaker 2: a verse in the Bible that's grossly misquoted by Christian parents. 632 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 2: Proverbs twenty two to six says train up your child 633 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 2: and the way that they should go. That's not what 634 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 2: that verse means. It literally means train up your child 635 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 2: according to their temperament or according to their bent and 636 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 2: then when they're older, they won't depart. Well, I think 637 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 2: the same goes for our wives. What is our wives temperament, 638 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 2: what is her personality, what is her love language? Let's 639 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 2: love them accordingly. Let's create a house for our bride 640 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 2: to dwell in under our loves and that's our role 641 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 2: as a husband is to lead them. But we are 642 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 2: wall builders right in the military, don't you have people 643 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 2: inspecting the proom? Isn't that a thing you do? You 644 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 2: have an l you have a what's what's a list? 645 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 2: An l O P. You have a listing, You have 646 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 2: all these things and you do that to protect the perimeter. Well, 647 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 2: that's what our job is as men over the women 648 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 2: that we have vowed our lives to. 649 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good, so good. This is a man very timely, 650 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: I wonder, And this is I guess the last question 651 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: for today. How do you how do you process seeing 652 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: so many Christian leaders it seems like every every week. 653 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: And these aren't these aren't fringe personalities. These are you know, 654 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: men who have led Christianity in the West, have written 655 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,959 Speaker 1: on it, have led crusades and conferences, and have been 656 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: the guys. So many have looked up to for so long? 657 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: How do you personally process through some of the things 658 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: that have come out? You know, you could name the guys, 659 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: I guess, but other than being let down and disappointed 660 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: and all the things that we all go through, it's 661 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: just hard to get your brain around it. I think 662 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: for me, what it's done is it's cautioned to me 663 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,479 Speaker 1: to go. There's never a moment where you can let 664 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: your guard down, there's not an age. But what is 665 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: that done to you? As you think about this? You 666 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: deal with so many men, you talk about this all 667 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: the time. How do you process through all of that? Yeah? 668 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 2: I think that's such a you and I think the 669 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 2: same man, it's just so cool. So, first of all, 670 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 2: say this Satan one Peter five eight prowls around like 671 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 2: a roaring lyons seeking for someone to devour. Roaring lyons 672 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 2: don't devour roring lyons, don't kill quiet ones do So, 673 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 2: don't be caught up in what he's roaring over here. 674 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 2: Be very careful that that predator is very patient. He 675 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 2: will wait until even after you die. We saw this 676 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 2: with Rabbi and Zacharias, even after you die, to take 677 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 2: you out. He will wait decades to take you out. 678 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 2: So that's the first thing I'll say. He is a 679 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 2: patient predator and there's no other predator like him. And 680 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 2: here's what you and I need to worry about, Jeremy. 681 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 2: We need to worry about guys with notoriety and fame 682 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 2: for lack of a better word, because he's going to 683 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 2: take out the big dogs. If he can take out 684 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 2: the big dogs, he takes out everybody. The big dogs 685 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 2: follow that everybody who follows the big dogs. So we 686 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 2: have to be extremely vigilant to not fall and to 687 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 2: not let little sins, little stupid choices compound over time. 688 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 2: And so for me, that means being authentic. It means 689 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,879 Speaker 2: letting my failures and flaws, putting him out there, putting 690 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 2: him in the light. And it means it means, honestly, 691 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 2: how I end every chapter knowing what I'm capable of. 692 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 2: I'm capable of doing everything that these guys that we've seen, 693 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 2: I'm capable of all those things. And I think if 694 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 2: we understand that, I think in America, fame is the goal, 695 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 2: and I think we need to realize that that's the enemy. 696 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,479 Speaker 2: It's like we think in America, comfort is the goal, 697 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 2: and we know for truth, we know that comfort is 698 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 2: not the goal. Comfort is the enemy, and so I 699 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 2: think fame and notoriety we have to be very very 700 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:13,319 Speaker 2: careful with that. 701 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 1: Yeah that's good. Yeah, it's good. It's you know, a 702 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: lot of this has pushed me back to personal, not 703 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: back to you know, we go through the devotional life 704 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: and we're supposed to do those things, but I think 705 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: it's re emphasized for me added weight to how important 706 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: a personal walk with the Lord is. Learn learn what 707 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: you can from the people that you can. But God 708 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: is the only God, and we need to have a 709 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: relationship with him. Yeah. 710 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 2: Well I would say this, Jeremy, I'm gonna give you 711 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,359 Speaker 2: permission right now to do something like you know, we 712 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 2: read each other's stuff. If you ever see a hint 713 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 2: out of me that's prideful, hubris, arrogant, not biblical opinion based, 714 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 2: political polarizing, man, just send me an email, call me 715 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 2: and just say, bro, that's not the Holy Spirit. I mean, 716 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 2: we have to do that with each other. Yes, Because 717 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 2: here's the deal. When we get to our age, there's 718 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 2: no old guy in the church calling us out. And 719 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:10,879 Speaker 2: I can wear a hat in church and nobody says 720 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 2: a word anymore. But if we're not willing to be 721 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 2: open and humble and say call me out please, we 722 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 2: are setting ourselves up for a phone. And I think 723 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 2: the one thing that happened with these all these public 724 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,439 Speaker 2: figures that we've seen fall in the last forty years 725 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,439 Speaker 2: is that they all have something in common. They were 726 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 2: an island and it did not receive They did not 727 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 2: listen to the authority structure over them. And if we 728 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 2: just have to listen to the authority structure over us 729 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 2: and humbly accept their rebukes and grow and learn, I 730 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:40,839 Speaker 2: think that's the way we have to do it. 731 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: That's good, Jim, thank you so much. 732 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 2: Man. 733 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: Where and when can people get get ahold of the 734 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: book and your website and all the other things that 735 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: you have. 736 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, don don't remember my name. I'm 737 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,399 Speaker 2: a nothing here men in the arena. You can get 738 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,320 Speaker 2: to our podcast there all of our platforms. The book 739 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 2: releases April seventh, and I just hey, Jeremy, I love 740 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 2: the military, man, man, love the military. We just sent 741 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 2: one hundred books to a bunch of Navy seals in Hawaii. 742 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 2: I want to send you four cases of that's about 743 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 2: ninety six books. 744 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: Awesome. 745 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 2: I'll send you more if you need them. But man, 746 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 2: we just believe in the military. Man, we're standing here, 747 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,360 Speaker 2: have this conversation in English and not German and not 748 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 2: in Chinese. Use our military guys, and so whatever I 749 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 2: can do, we just want to say. I'm not trying 750 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 2: to sell you guys the book. I want to give 751 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 2: it to them or guys that come into your program. 752 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 2: But those that don't come into your program, I'm gonna 753 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 2: make them pay. Man, they just go hand. 754 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: Us on it and go buy it on It's funny. 755 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: I say that all the time. We have a little 756 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: book that I wrote. It's like ten thousand words as 757 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,760 Speaker 1: small and we charged ten dollars for it, and I'm like, uh, okay, 758 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 1: first of all, if you buy this, you have to 759 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: know it's the worst deal you're ever going to get 760 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 1: on a book because it costs us like eighty cents 761 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: to make. But I give out thousands of them, you know, 762 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: and so you pay so others can have them. But 763 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: that's awesome. We'll get into the right place. 764 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 2: Guys like you and I are horrible business. 765 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,399 Speaker 1: Terrible terrible. You overpay and then I'll give a bunch 766 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: of them away. We're gonna lose money every time. 767 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,240 Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly. 768 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: Man. It's awesome, Jim, thank you really really appreciate it. 769 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: Look forward to talking again. We'll talk soon, I'm sure. 770 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: And for those that are watching or listening, subscribe. If 771 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: you haven't, go check out Men in the Arena Man. 772 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: So much great content there, books, podcast, opportunity to join groups, 773 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: other stuff there that you need to check out, so 774 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: please do that. Thanks for watching, thanks for listening, and 775 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: we'll talk to you