1 00:00:02,710 --> 00:00:08,629 Speaker 1: Life Audio. Welcome to I Wish You Could Hear This, 2 00:00:09,050 --> 00:00:12,860 Speaker 1: where we explore great stories and simple proven steps to 3 00:00:12,900 --> 00:00:15,940 Speaker 1: help you thrive in life, faith, and relationships. 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 2: In our research, we've heard hundreds of hope-filled strategies for marriage, parenting, leadership, 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 2: and life that are grounded in science and consistent with 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:25,060 Speaker 2: biblical truth. 7 00:00:25,579 --> 00:00:26,940 Speaker 3: And now you can hear them too. 8 00:00:29,900 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: I'm Shanti Feldhahn. 9 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:31,980 Speaker 3: And I'm Jeff Feldhahn. 10 00:00:32,530 --> 00:00:36,010 Speaker 1: If you are a Christian parent, you have probably heard 11 00:00:36,150 --> 00:00:40,220 Speaker 1: some version of this warning. Most kids leave church after 12 00:00:40,260 --> 00:00:43,220 Speaker 1: high school. And for parents who are trying to raise 13 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,140 Speaker 1: kids who have a faith of their own, those kinds 14 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,260 Speaker 1: of statements can be really discouraging. But according to a 15 00:00:50,420 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 1: lot of recent data, that is much more of an 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,380 Speaker 1: urban legend than reality. So what do the numbers actually 17 00:00:58,420 --> 00:01:01,850 Speaker 1: tell us? And what do parents need to know? about 18 00:01:01,890 --> 00:01:03,950 Speaker 1: the difference it makes to raise our kids in a 19 00:01:04,030 --> 00:01:07,369 Speaker 1: home and a church where faith is a meaningful part 20 00:01:07,430 --> 00:01:10,010 Speaker 1: of everyday life. That is what we're going to tackle 21 00:01:10,110 --> 00:01:12,220 Speaker 1: in this episode of I Wish You Could Hear This. 22 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:23,619 Speaker 3: So thank you all for being here. 23 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:25,660 Speaker 2: Now, we've all heard the numbers. 24 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: The really discouraging numbers. 25 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,910 Speaker 2: Yeah, so 70% of kids who grow up in Christian homes, 26 00:01:33,590 --> 00:01:38,070 Speaker 2: leave the faith? That sort of reminds me of those 27 00:01:38,150 --> 00:01:42,970 Speaker 2: numbers we'd always heard about divorce that didn't necessarily prove 28 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:43,780 Speaker 2: out to be true. 29 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:45,900 Speaker 3: You helped to debunk that. 30 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: Well, I hope so, to some degree, yes. Yeah, we 31 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,340 Speaker 1: really need to look at the real numbers, and this 32 00:01:53,460 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: podcast is going to be much more on the Hey, 33 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: there's some big studies we thought you need to be 34 00:01:59,080 --> 00:01:59,590 Speaker 1: aware of. 35 00:01:59,620 --> 00:02:02,530 Speaker 2: That makes your heart really happy. 36 00:02:02,810 --> 00:02:03,809 Speaker 3: I know, I know. 37 00:02:03,890 --> 00:02:07,330 Speaker 2: And these two studies, there's one from Barna and one. 38 00:02:07,270 --> 00:02:10,650 Speaker 3: From Pew Research. Yeah, so. 39 00:02:12,169 --> 00:02:15,090 Speaker 2: They both kind of share what we're getting wrong about 40 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:16,060 Speaker 2: these numbers. 41 00:02:16,090 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: These assumptions that kids leave the church. 42 00:02:18,620 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 2: Right. 43 00:02:19,100 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: We should explain that we first heard, I should explain, 44 00:02:24,740 --> 00:02:28,540 Speaker 1: I didn't actually see the Barna or the Pew research 45 00:02:28,580 --> 00:02:31,390 Speaker 1: when it first came out. I actually. 46 00:02:31,410 --> 00:02:33,929 Speaker 3: And it goes without saying, I didn't either. 47 00:02:35,810 --> 00:02:39,410 Speaker 1: Well, we sometimes run across things on our own, but 48 00:02:39,450 --> 00:02:42,269 Speaker 1: in this case, it was actually a number of years ago, 49 00:02:42,290 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: Ed Stetzer, who was like a totally fangirl when. 50 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 3: It comes to. 51 00:02:47,389 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: He's a total jock when it comes to information, research, 52 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: all of that stuff. 53 00:02:53,300 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: And he's a pastor. And he's just a remarkable person. 54 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,679 Speaker 1: And he's just a wonderful man in the kingdom of God. 55 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: But we were at basically a retreat for marriage authors. 56 00:03:07,690 --> 00:03:09,250 Speaker 1: And he came up on stage. 57 00:03:09,290 --> 00:03:10,010 Speaker 3: He was the keynote. 58 00:03:10,070 --> 00:03:12,330 Speaker 1: He was a keynote speaker. And he came up on 59 00:03:12,370 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 1: stage and basically blew everybody's mind. I don't know if 60 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: you want to. 61 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:23,910 Speaker 3: No, I agree. I remember being like, wow, really? Wow. 62 00:03:24,389 --> 00:03:27,990 Speaker 1: He was challenging us. And this is another thing that 63 00:03:28,030 --> 00:03:31,910 Speaker 1: basically today, again, we're going to be sharing good information 64 00:03:32,350 --> 00:03:35,690 Speaker 1: to try to debunk the bad information. But in general, 65 00:03:35,830 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: our encouragement to you is the same thing that Ed said. See, 66 00:03:39,150 --> 00:03:40,910 Speaker 1: listen to me. I'm calling him Ed as if I 67 00:03:40,950 --> 00:03:42,610 Speaker 1: know him like I've met him twice. 68 00:03:42,790 --> 00:03:42,990 Speaker 2: Right. 69 00:03:43,750 --> 00:03:46,450 Speaker 1: Ed Stetzer, what he said on that stage to all 70 00:03:46,490 --> 00:03:52,850 Speaker 1: these marriage authors was basically relax and kind of a challenge, honestly, 71 00:03:53,110 --> 00:03:55,869 Speaker 1: of stop sharing bad data. 72 00:03:55,970 --> 00:03:56,270 Speaker 3: Right. 73 00:03:56,750 --> 00:04:00,830 Speaker 1: You know, and this was an example, OK, where this 74 00:04:00,930 --> 00:04:03,590 Speaker 1: topic he said, for example, how many of you have 75 00:04:03,630 --> 00:04:09,190 Speaker 1: heard one of these bad statistics about, you know, 70 76 00:04:09,190 --> 00:04:11,970 Speaker 1: percent or 60 percent or 80 percent, whatever the number is. 77 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,580 Speaker 1: of kids who grow up in Christian homes leave the 78 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: faith once they graduate from high school. And he said, 79 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: do you know where one of those numbers comes from? 80 00:04:21,779 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: And he basically tells this story, and this was four 81 00:04:25,370 --> 00:04:27,830 Speaker 1: years ago. I tried to find my notes the other day, 82 00:04:27,930 --> 00:04:30,290 Speaker 1: and because it was four years ago, I couldn't find 83 00:04:30,330 --> 00:04:33,730 Speaker 1: the notes. But this is based on my memory of 84 00:04:33,790 --> 00:04:35,729 Speaker 1: what he said, so forgive me if I'm getting it 85 00:04:35,850 --> 00:04:39,860 Speaker 1: slightly wrong. But he said at that keynote, he said 86 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: one of those numbers that sort of has gotten spread 87 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:50,500 Speaker 1: around was just from an informal conversation that a group 88 00:04:50,660 --> 00:04:56,660 Speaker 1: of youth workers, high school church youth workers, were having 89 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: at some sort of a meeting where someone said, and 90 00:05:01,180 --> 00:05:04,060 Speaker 1: there were journalists and there were Christian media and whatever, 91 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: and they basically said, On stage, I think he said 92 00:05:07,540 --> 00:05:10,620 Speaker 1: there were maybe 14 or 15 of these youth workers. 93 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:11,099 Speaker 2: Okay. 94 00:05:11,300 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: And someone said, how many of you, what percentage of 95 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:18,370 Speaker 1: you have known kids that were sincere, raised in a 96 00:05:18,410 --> 00:05:21,909 Speaker 1: good Christian household, who left the faith when they went 97 00:05:21,930 --> 00:05:25,610 Speaker 1: to college or whatever? And about seven out of 10 said, 98 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,670 Speaker 1: of the folks there raised their hand. 99 00:05:29,750 --> 00:05:32,530 Speaker 3: On the panel? In that audience? 100 00:05:32,630 --> 00:05:36,050 Speaker 1: No, in that group of 14 or 15 youth workers. 101 00:05:36,589 --> 00:05:40,690 Speaker 1: And so it was basically, you know, 70% of that 102 00:05:40,790 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: group raised their hands that they had known kids that 103 00:05:44,130 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: they felt had a sincere faith that left the faith 104 00:05:47,300 --> 00:05:51,700 Speaker 1: when they went to college. And Ed said that got 105 00:05:51,820 --> 00:05:55,980 Speaker 1: picked up as if it was a real statistic. And 106 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,660 Speaker 1: got spread around. That's an example of how easy it 107 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,330 Speaker 1: is for ridiculous numbers. 108 00:06:02,410 --> 00:06:06,330 Speaker 2: Well, and that was not of the percentage of the 109 00:06:06,430 --> 00:06:09,690 Speaker 2: kids that they know. It was just that 70%. 110 00:06:09,550 --> 00:06:11,409 Speaker 3: Of those youth workers. 111 00:06:11,250 --> 00:06:16,849 Speaker 1: Had had a student who had been sincere, they thought, 112 00:06:16,930 --> 00:06:20,789 Speaker 1: in their faith, who walked away in college or after 113 00:06:20,830 --> 00:06:24,650 Speaker 1: high school. And although that's tragic, that is not the 114 00:06:24,690 --> 00:06:28,409 Speaker 1: same thing as saying 70% of kids walk away. And 115 00:06:28,470 --> 00:06:31,430 Speaker 1: so that's just one little data point. But that was 116 00:06:31,470 --> 00:06:35,940 Speaker 1: basically his point in that talk is we have gotten 117 00:06:35,950 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: to the point where we share these numbers around that 118 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,740 Speaker 1: we don't know the source of as if they're real. 119 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:49,380 Speaker 1: And so let's at least... give one another good sourced 120 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:54,020 Speaker 1: information that we can say this is true, this is 121 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,940 Speaker 1: not true. So that's what we want to do today 122 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:00,550 Speaker 1: based on these two studies, Pew Research and Barna. Good. 123 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,830 Speaker 2: You know, I, okay, I'm going to just say this 124 00:07:04,930 --> 00:07:06,250 Speaker 2: and I don't want to sidetrack us. 125 00:07:06,470 --> 00:07:07,290 Speaker 3: Okay. 126 00:07:08,130 --> 00:07:14,940 Speaker 2: You know, I would say then that, that information, that 70% of, 127 00:07:17,100 --> 00:07:20,460 Speaker 2: kids christian kids lose their faith when they go to 128 00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:22,340 Speaker 2: college is a lie. 129 00:07:22,890 --> 00:07:25,830 Speaker 1: Yes that is a lie it is a lie it's not. 130 00:07:25,750 --> 00:07:31,750 Speaker 2: True correct and when we as people of faith share 131 00:07:31,890 --> 00:07:40,110 Speaker 2: something that is a lie what does that make us 132 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 2: at that moment i mean there is i'm not trying 133 00:07:43,700 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 2: to say i'm i am saying There's a weightiness to when. 134 00:07:47,700 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 3: We are sharing information. 135 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:54,060 Speaker 2: Wow. That we need to be as confident as we 136 00:07:54,120 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 2: can that it is truth, it is correct, right, all 137 00:08:01,810 --> 00:08:02,250 Speaker 2: of those things. 138 00:08:02,260 --> 00:08:04,330 Speaker 1: That we're not sharing a false report. 139 00:08:04,570 --> 00:08:06,390 Speaker 3: We're not sharing a false report. Holy cow. 140 00:08:06,430 --> 00:08:11,850 Speaker 2: Because we've heard enough about where liars are. You know, 141 00:08:11,870 --> 00:08:15,730 Speaker 2: and I'm not trying to get into any theological. 142 00:08:15,070 --> 00:08:15,950 Speaker 1: Argument about that. 143 00:08:15,970 --> 00:08:18,930 Speaker 2: Yeah, because we can't say that. But I do think 144 00:08:18,970 --> 00:08:21,750 Speaker 2: that not a single one of us who names the 145 00:08:21,790 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 2: name of Christ wants to participate in sharing a lie. 146 00:08:28,460 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: That's a really, really good point. Yikes. Okay, so just 147 00:08:32,340 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: like the divorce rates, where now that was super complicated. 148 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,630 Speaker 1: That took me eight years to try to figure out 149 00:08:39,650 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: what I was thinking. seeing in the divorce rate numbers, 150 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: but there were a lot of urban legends being perpetuated, basically, 151 00:08:48,140 --> 00:08:52,300 Speaker 1: just put it that way. So the same narrative has 152 00:08:52,700 --> 00:08:56,870 Speaker 1: proven true of this idea that most kids who grow 153 00:08:56,910 --> 00:09:01,050 Speaker 1: up in Christian homes turn away after they graduate from 154 00:09:01,090 --> 00:09:04,730 Speaker 1: high school, go to college, whatever. Now, there's certainly that 155 00:09:04,790 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 1: does happen, but let's give you some better numbers just 156 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: so everybody has better numbers to perpetuate. And I don't 157 00:09:11,940 --> 00:09:14,660 Speaker 1: just mean better, more positive, although they are, but better 158 00:09:14,940 --> 00:09:16,900 Speaker 1: as in meaning truthful. 159 00:09:17,059 --> 00:09:19,780 Speaker 2: Can I, before we get those numbers, can I, you know, I, 160 00:09:19,900 --> 00:09:22,500 Speaker 2: I get the, I'm, I'm thinking of the average. 161 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:23,940 Speaker 1: Everybody's like, would you stop? 162 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 3: I know. I know. 163 00:09:25,420 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 2: So I'm thinking of the average parent who's sending their 164 00:09:29,980 --> 00:09:34,339 Speaker 2: child away to college. Yeah. Outside from their household, their 165 00:09:34,380 --> 00:09:39,710 Speaker 2: kind of oversight, all of that, the discouragement of, That 70% 166 00:09:39,710 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 2: number does. But beyond the parent, if the kids themselves 167 00:09:46,620 --> 00:09:53,020 Speaker 2: hear that, then when there is this, yeah, look, I mean, 70% 168 00:09:53,020 --> 00:09:57,850 Speaker 2: of Christian kids walk away. I'm not doing something that 169 00:09:58,030 --> 00:09:59,150 Speaker 2: is an outlier. 170 00:09:59,170 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: Interesting. Okay, yeah, good point. 171 00:10:01,420 --> 00:10:02,900 Speaker 3: I'll step back from that. 172 00:10:03,020 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: But basically there's consequences of sharing the wrong data. 173 00:10:07,300 --> 00:10:07,660 Speaker 2: Correct. 174 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:12,569 Speaker 1: Okay, so better data, and again, better terms mean more accurate, 175 00:10:12,590 --> 00:10:15,650 Speaker 1: not just more positive. So let's talk about the Pew 176 00:10:15,690 --> 00:10:18,349 Speaker 1: study first. And both of these studies we're going to 177 00:10:18,370 --> 00:10:22,210 Speaker 1: put in the show notes. And these two reports that 178 00:10:22,230 --> 00:10:24,550 Speaker 1: I'm going to put in the show notes are very 179 00:10:24,770 --> 00:10:29,449 Speaker 1: simply written. They're fairly long studies. for just a basic 180 00:10:29,470 --> 00:10:32,590 Speaker 1: write-up of a report, but there's all sorts of really 181 00:10:32,630 --> 00:10:36,290 Speaker 1: good charts, all sorts of really good information. It's definitely worth, 182 00:10:36,350 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: if you're interested in this kind of thing, it's definitely 183 00:10:39,010 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: worth reading through. Just to give you the basics, what 184 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:53,340 Speaker 1: Pew found is that there is a very strong relationship 185 00:10:54,050 --> 00:10:58,729 Speaker 1: between household, I think they call it religiosity or religiousness, 186 00:10:58,809 --> 00:11:03,370 Speaker 1: like basically it's Pew's way of saying a family like us, 187 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:08,220 Speaker 1: that it's a thing that you go to church every Sunday, 188 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,140 Speaker 1: you pray, you try to make your faith a part 189 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,780 Speaker 1: of your life, you're hoping your kids make their faith 190 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,099 Speaker 1: a part of your life. So they call that a 191 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: highly religious household. Children who grew up in a highly 192 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,850 Speaker 1: religious household 82% of those kids stayed true to their 193 00:11:25,890 --> 00:11:27,450 Speaker 1: faith after graduating high school. 194 00:11:27,830 --> 00:11:28,290 Speaker 3: Wow. 195 00:11:28,290 --> 00:11:28,949 Speaker 1: 82%. 196 00:11:28,950 --> 00:11:29,150 Speaker 2: Wow. 197 00:11:29,380 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: Let's just sit with that for a second. 198 00:11:33,340 --> 00:11:38,660 Speaker 2: Not 30%, which is what that 70% number. Exactly. 199 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:43,740 Speaker 1: So 18% did not. Okay. And that's obviously a concern. 200 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:43,940 Speaker 2: For sure. 201 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: That's almost one out of every five. 202 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:47,329 Speaker 3: And that breaks a parent's heart. 203 00:11:47,350 --> 00:11:49,570 Speaker 1: And that breaks a parent's heart. We'll get to that 204 00:11:49,630 --> 00:11:52,550 Speaker 1: in a few minutes. Yes. But just sit with the 205 00:11:52,710 --> 00:11:57,850 Speaker 1: truth for a minute. If you raised your child in 206 00:11:58,190 --> 00:12:01,390 Speaker 1: a household that made faith a part of your life 207 00:12:01,550 --> 00:12:05,070 Speaker 1: and the actions of faith a part of your life, 82% 208 00:12:05,070 --> 00:12:07,870 Speaker 1: of those kids stay true to their faith. Now, here's 209 00:12:08,030 --> 00:12:11,810 Speaker 1: one thing to be aware of. This does not mean 210 00:12:12,570 --> 00:12:17,890 Speaker 1: that those kids necessarily go to church every week in college. 211 00:12:18,290 --> 00:12:22,309 Speaker 1: I would say our two kids have... made faith a 212 00:12:22,370 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: part of their life. Both Luke and Morgan. 213 00:12:24,670 --> 00:12:25,030 Speaker 3: For sure. 214 00:12:25,460 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: Have made that a part of their life after they 215 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: graduated high school. Luke's still in college. Morgan graduated a 216 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: few years back. But it's, you know, it's very much 217 00:12:35,620 --> 00:12:40,110 Speaker 1: a personal relationship. Both of them, during the college years, 218 00:12:40,610 --> 00:12:44,310 Speaker 1: were more likely to make their Christian fellowship meetings a 219 00:12:44,530 --> 00:12:46,530 Speaker 1: regular thing than church attendance. 220 00:12:46,570 --> 00:12:46,750 Speaker 2: Yeah. 221 00:12:47,270 --> 00:12:50,189 Speaker 1: And, like, I would say Morgan, she got to church... 222 00:12:50,770 --> 00:12:55,350 Speaker 1: She tried, but it's a Sunday morning at 9 a.m., 223 00:12:55,410 --> 00:12:58,310 Speaker 1: you know, where most students want to sleep in. So 224 00:12:58,410 --> 00:13:01,570 Speaker 1: she was more likely to go to like a crew 225 00:13:01,590 --> 00:13:05,730 Speaker 1: meeting or to have her Bible study with her sorority. 226 00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:07,650 Speaker 3: And hit those regularly. 227 00:13:08,010 --> 00:13:10,870 Speaker 1: And she started the Bible study at her sorority. 228 00:13:11,070 --> 00:13:11,270 Speaker 3: Right. 229 00:13:11,309 --> 00:13:14,990 Speaker 1: Like that's that is not the same thing as someone 230 00:13:15,090 --> 00:13:17,890 Speaker 1: just because they don't go to church. That doesn't mean 231 00:13:17,929 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: they've walked away from their faith. Now, in college, I 232 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: think it's pretty easy for students to kind of drift 233 00:13:26,179 --> 00:13:32,599 Speaker 1: a bit. But that 82% is basically they are still 234 00:13:33,220 --> 00:13:38,610 Speaker 1: making faith an important part of their life. So just 235 00:13:38,630 --> 00:13:41,390 Speaker 1: so you know, that's like a really important starting point. 236 00:13:41,429 --> 00:13:43,750 Speaker 1: Let me give you another couple of numbers just so 237 00:13:43,770 --> 00:13:46,650 Speaker 1: that you know. And again, you'll see this report and 238 00:13:46,809 --> 00:13:50,330 Speaker 1: you'll see this chart here. that I highly recommend that 239 00:13:50,370 --> 00:13:55,130 Speaker 1: you go look at. And it's titled, Americans who are 240 00:13:55,190 --> 00:13:59,150 Speaker 1: raised in a religion and had a positive experience are 241 00:13:59,190 --> 00:14:02,550 Speaker 1: more likely to have stayed. And that's another thing to mention. 242 00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: Not surprisingly, if a child grew up with a mostly 243 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:14,330 Speaker 1: positive experience with religion, with faith, they found that 84% 244 00:14:14,330 --> 00:14:19,430 Speaker 1: of those kids were still in the faith years later. 245 00:14:20,630 --> 00:14:24,580 Speaker 1: But the kids who had a negative experience with that faith, again, 246 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: not surprisingly, 24% of those kids were still in the faith. 247 00:14:29,820 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: Now that's actually in a weird way, kind of encouraging 248 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: that almost one in four, even if they had a 249 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:40,930 Speaker 1: bad experience, that faith in the Lord was enough to, 250 00:14:41,690 --> 00:14:43,950 Speaker 1: part of their life that it didn't chase them away. 251 00:14:43,970 --> 00:14:46,690 Speaker 1: I mean, I actually would have expected the number to 252 00:14:46,730 --> 00:14:51,700 Speaker 1: be lower than that. Um, so that's an important one, um, that, 253 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,940 Speaker 1: and basically here's a sort of an average number. And 254 00:14:54,980 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: this is what you may see in other data is 255 00:14:58,660 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: that if you look at everybody who was raised in 256 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,150 Speaker 1: sort of a, they call it religiously affiliated. 257 00:15:05,170 --> 00:15:05,970 Speaker 2: Okay. 258 00:15:06,050 --> 00:15:09,930 Speaker 1: In a, in a household, again, where people attend church regularly, whatever, 259 00:15:10,310 --> 00:15:15,330 Speaker 1: you'll see on average that 64% of them stayed true 260 00:15:15,370 --> 00:15:19,050 Speaker 1: to their faith. But what we're talking about are all 261 00:15:19,070 --> 00:15:22,510 Speaker 1: the things that changed the average. And if that household 262 00:15:23,090 --> 00:15:27,810 Speaker 1: was high religiousness, like probably they would call ours, that's 263 00:15:27,830 --> 00:15:29,890 Speaker 1: the 82% that stayed true. 264 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:31,820 Speaker 3: Fascinating. 265 00:15:31,930 --> 00:15:32,820 Speaker 1: Isn't that interesting? 266 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:33,420 Speaker 2: Yeah. 267 00:15:34,060 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 3: Okay. Keep going. 268 00:15:35,540 --> 00:15:36,300 Speaker 1: So move on. 269 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:36,620 Speaker 2: All right. 270 00:15:37,130 --> 00:15:41,170 Speaker 1: And, okay, so the next thing that somebody listening to this, 271 00:15:41,290 --> 00:15:44,750 Speaker 1: if you're an analytical sort, you might also be going, okay, 272 00:15:44,770 --> 00:15:49,170 Speaker 1: but that could just be faith without any practice. 273 00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:49,609 Speaker 2: Okay. 274 00:15:49,790 --> 00:15:52,980 Speaker 1: Which, obviously, we are all warned against in the Bible. 275 00:15:53,630 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: Faith without works is dead. You don't stop meeting together. 276 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: All the things about that we need to prioritize, gathering together, 277 00:16:03,020 --> 00:16:06,030 Speaker 1: church attendance, that kind of stuff. So let's turn to 278 00:16:06,070 --> 00:16:09,530 Speaker 1: the Barna study. So this study was released at the 279 00:16:09,630 --> 00:16:14,140 Speaker 1: end of 2025. Okay. So it's fairly recent data. Now, 280 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: here's an interesting, I was telling you this yesterday when 281 00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:21,140 Speaker 1: we were talking about this. When I looked at this data, 282 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: I was like, are you kidding me? Because we think 283 00:16:25,460 --> 00:16:29,830 Speaker 1: of ourselves, our generation, maybe like Gen X, you know, 284 00:16:29,910 --> 00:16:35,210 Speaker 1: kind of generation as being more regular church attenders. OK, 285 00:16:35,310 --> 00:16:38,940 Speaker 1: maybe the baby boomers, the older folks are more regular 286 00:16:38,980 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: church attenders. And what Barna did was they actually checked 287 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,500 Speaker 1: real life church attendance. So do you actually go like 288 00:16:48,540 --> 00:16:50,530 Speaker 1: the question? I remember when I worked with Barna a 289 00:16:50,570 --> 00:16:52,790 Speaker 1: number of years ago was, was you were you in 290 00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:56,430 Speaker 1: church last week? Like it wasn't like how often a 291 00:16:56,470 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: month do you attend? It was it was no. Were 292 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:01,260 Speaker 1: you in church last week? 293 00:17:01,380 --> 00:17:01,500 Speaker 2: OK, OK. 294 00:17:02,050 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: And so they managed with whatever the way they asked 295 00:17:05,540 --> 00:17:11,940 Speaker 1: those questions, they managed to check the people who say, yes, 296 00:17:12,100 --> 00:17:16,060 Speaker 1: I am a regular church attender. I go weekly. How 297 00:17:16,140 --> 00:17:22,030 Speaker 1: often do they actually attend? And this was pretty like shocking. 298 00:17:22,270 --> 00:17:24,979 Speaker 1: We'll talk about the kids in a minute. But the 299 00:17:25,300 --> 00:17:30,670 Speaker 1: actual attendance on average for all church adults is only 300 00:17:30,670 --> 00:17:32,389 Speaker 1: 1.6 times a month. 301 00:17:32,750 --> 00:17:33,830 Speaker 3: Holy smokes. 302 00:17:34,350 --> 00:17:35,570 Speaker 1: We think we go. 303 00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:36,730 Speaker 3: More often than we do. 304 00:17:36,730 --> 00:17:40,870 Speaker 1: More often than we actually do. We watch online. We're traveling. 305 00:17:40,930 --> 00:17:44,180 Speaker 1: We were tired that day. I have a book deadline. 306 00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 3: And just you mentioned there we watch online. That wasn't. 307 00:17:48,670 --> 00:17:50,150 Speaker 1: I don't think that was part of this. I think 308 00:17:50,190 --> 00:17:51,550 Speaker 1: this is actual attendance. 309 00:17:51,730 --> 00:17:53,310 Speaker 3: Actual physical presence. 310 00:17:53,530 --> 00:17:56,310 Speaker 1: And now there are people who can't get to church 311 00:17:56,350 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: for whatever reason. They're sick. They're housebound. Online church for them. 312 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 2: Is a huge blessing. 313 00:18:02,700 --> 00:18:05,500 Speaker 1: But for the rest of us, it's become a huge convenience. 314 00:18:06,140 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 1: And it's kind of drawn us away. Something that in 315 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,220 Speaker 1: the pandemic was designed to keep us connected to church 316 00:18:12,270 --> 00:18:13,750 Speaker 1: has actually drawn us away from it. 317 00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:16,869 Speaker 2: Because the church isn't just.... 318 00:18:18,050 --> 00:18:19,450 Speaker 3: Singing some worship songs. 319 00:18:19,890 --> 00:18:24,729 Speaker 2: It isn't just hearing a great message. It is seeing 320 00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 2: that person sitting next to you who looks like they're 321 00:18:28,619 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 2: struggling and going and putting your arm around them and saying, 322 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:33,820 Speaker 2: are you okay? 323 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 3: That's the church. 324 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,860 Speaker 1: Or like last Sunday, I'm thinking of last Sunday, we 325 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,900 Speaker 1: walked in, I don't know, four minutes early because you 326 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,060 Speaker 1: like trying to get in a little bit early before 327 00:18:45,100 --> 00:18:48,429 Speaker 1: worship starts. And we see some old friends who are 328 00:18:48,510 --> 00:18:51,970 Speaker 1: at our old church we haven't seen in years because 329 00:18:52,010 --> 00:18:55,310 Speaker 1: our church is unfortunately... It's a great church, but it 330 00:18:55,390 --> 00:18:57,790 Speaker 1: is a fairly large church, so you don't always see 331 00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:59,010 Speaker 1: the same people week to week. 332 00:18:59,050 --> 00:18:59,430 Speaker 3: Correct. 333 00:18:59,910 --> 00:19:02,230 Speaker 1: And we see these old friends that we haven't seen 334 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,700 Speaker 1: in forever, and we're able to catch up after the 335 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: service just to reconnect. How old are your kids now? 336 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 1: I mean, that is the body of Christ. 337 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,020 Speaker 2: It is the body of Christ because you don't know 338 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 2: where that conversation can go. 339 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:20,810 Speaker 3: For us, it was kind of a catch-up type thing. 340 00:19:21,330 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 2: But that conversation with that actual physical person next to 341 00:19:25,300 --> 00:19:28,500 Speaker 2: you could be just exactly what that person needs. 342 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: What they needed. 343 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:30,340 Speaker 2: Or what you needed. 344 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:30,580 Speaker 1: Yeah. 345 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 2: And so that's the, you know, I'm off my soapbox, 346 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:42,129 Speaker 2: but the being physically present, if you are able, is important. 347 00:19:42,450 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 3: Not just for you, but for others around you. 348 00:19:46,270 --> 00:19:49,109 Speaker 1: Okay. So now let's go back to our kids. Okay. 349 00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:49,370 Speaker 2: Okay. 350 00:19:50,050 --> 00:19:51,650 Speaker 1: I'm going to slightly blow your mind. 351 00:19:51,670 --> 00:19:52,570 Speaker 3: Okay, blow it. 352 00:19:52,970 --> 00:20:00,120 Speaker 1: About the attendance of our youngest... Cohort? Cohort, which is 353 00:20:01,020 --> 00:20:09,929 Speaker 1: Gen Z. Okay. So the highest attendance... for church attendance 354 00:20:10,090 --> 00:20:16,909 Speaker 1: regularly is not Gen X or baby boomers or the 355 00:20:17,010 --> 00:20:21,190 Speaker 1: older folks. It is Gen Z where on average, a 356 00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:26,130 Speaker 1: baby boomer attends church 1.4 times a month. Gen Z 357 00:20:26,290 --> 00:20:30,649 Speaker 1: attends almost twice a month, 1.9 times a month. And 358 00:20:30,770 --> 00:20:34,430 Speaker 1: so when we're talking about, it's not just that they, 359 00:20:34,859 --> 00:20:39,820 Speaker 1: our kids don't, Leave the faith, but they're not doing 360 00:20:39,890 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: much about it. Actually, no. Gen Z and the younger 361 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: millennials are now the most regular church attendance. Wow. I mean, 362 00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:53,850 Speaker 1: and that is something for us to, like, really be 363 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:59,570 Speaker 1: aware of. Attendance among millennials, actually, and you can go 364 00:20:59,609 --> 00:21:01,790 Speaker 1: and look. Again, in the show notes, we have the 365 00:21:01,850 --> 00:21:04,740 Speaker 1: link to the Barna report. And you can actually see 366 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:09,179 Speaker 1: the chart. The attendance among millennials is the highest it's 367 00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:12,830 Speaker 1: ever been since Barna started collecting this data. 368 00:21:12,970 --> 00:21:13,710 Speaker 3: For that group? 369 00:21:13,790 --> 00:21:16,810 Speaker 1: For that group. When, you know, about 2003 is when 370 00:21:16,830 --> 00:21:19,490 Speaker 1: the millennials became adults, right? 371 00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:19,730 Speaker 2: Okay. 372 00:21:20,010 --> 00:21:23,170 Speaker 1: And so, and it was about 1.2 times a month 373 00:21:23,770 --> 00:21:26,310 Speaker 1: at the time. And now it's whatever, 1.8, I think. 374 00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:30,050 Speaker 1: I'm looking at my little chart here. 375 00:21:30,130 --> 00:21:30,390 Speaker 2: Yes. 376 00:21:30,690 --> 00:21:32,790 Speaker 1: One point eight times a month. OK, so it's the 377 00:21:32,850 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: highest it's ever been. And Gen Z, like everybody kind 378 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,699 Speaker 1: of dipped during the pandemic. Sure. But Gen Z, it's 379 00:21:40,820 --> 00:21:44,360 Speaker 1: also the highest that it's ever been. It's just there 380 00:21:44,420 --> 00:21:49,850 Speaker 1: is it is important for us to not spread this. Oh, 381 00:21:50,230 --> 00:21:52,230 Speaker 1: our young people, they just don't care anymore. 382 00:21:52,690 --> 00:21:52,890 Speaker 2: Right. 383 00:21:52,910 --> 00:21:53,619 Speaker 1: About the Lord. 384 00:21:53,660 --> 00:21:56,780 Speaker 2: They should be praying for the boomers and the Gen X. 385 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: Absolutely. 386 00:21:57,780 --> 00:22:00,419 Speaker 3: Because they're not stepping up. 387 00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: Okay. Okay. And also, okay, so now it's not just 388 00:22:04,580 --> 00:22:07,030 Speaker 1: a matter of church attendance. Here's another thing. The personal 389 00:22:07,070 --> 00:22:11,750 Speaker 1: relationship with the Lord is becoming more important among the 390 00:22:11,830 --> 00:22:16,010 Speaker 1: younger folks. And so, and especially, and maybe you've seen 391 00:22:16,030 --> 00:22:21,300 Speaker 1: this in the news, especially among young men. It's really 392 00:22:21,380 --> 00:22:25,700 Speaker 1: been like taking off as young men have been stepping 393 00:22:25,820 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: up into leadership and in like making their faith their 394 00:22:29,980 --> 00:22:33,570 Speaker 1: own and volunteering at church and actually becoming a part 395 00:22:33,609 --> 00:22:35,990 Speaker 1: of the body of Christ in a way that it 396 00:22:36,190 --> 00:22:41,209 Speaker 1: used to be primarily young women. And so, again, in 397 00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:45,629 Speaker 1: this in the Barna report, you will see there's a 398 00:22:45,770 --> 00:22:49,189 Speaker 1: breakdown of Gen Z, Millennial, Gen X and Boomer women. 399 00:22:49,619 --> 00:22:53,540 Speaker 1: By men and women. And you'll actually see that not 400 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: only are Gen Z and millennials, like in terms of 401 00:22:58,220 --> 00:23:01,510 Speaker 1: their personal commitment to their faith, not only are they 402 00:23:02,109 --> 00:23:06,090 Speaker 1: in very high numbers, but the men are really stepping up. 403 00:23:06,250 --> 00:23:07,010 Speaker 3: So I'm going to. 404 00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:10,090 Speaker 2: Our particular church that we attend. Okay. 405 00:23:10,330 --> 00:23:11,830 Speaker 3: Large church, as you described. 406 00:23:12,090 --> 00:23:15,190 Speaker 2: And as with a large church, they have lots of 407 00:23:15,530 --> 00:23:16,530 Speaker 2: volunteer needs. 408 00:23:16,950 --> 00:23:17,190 Speaker 1: Yes. 409 00:23:17,470 --> 00:23:19,129 Speaker 3: And so one that is. 410 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 2: Constant, as well as I'm sure in churches around the nation, 411 00:23:25,820 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 2: is we need more volunteers in the kids, in the 412 00:23:30,540 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 2: little bitty kids, in the nursery, to step up and 413 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 2: to help with that. 414 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,810 Speaker 1: Our pastor has, let's just say that I love our pastor. 415 00:23:40,869 --> 00:23:46,389 Speaker 1: He doesn't avoid the hard conversations. And he basically, he 416 00:23:46,450 --> 00:23:48,909 Speaker 1: said before my sermon, this was maybe three weeks ago 417 00:23:48,970 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: or something. He said, before my sermon, before I actually 418 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: start the teaching, I need to say something. And I 419 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: need to say, I shouldn't have to say this. Right. 420 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: He was irritated. And he was like, we keep talking 421 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: about how much we need volunteers. And I shouldn't have 422 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,659 Speaker 1: to keep saying, especially in the children's ministry, y'all get 423 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: off your tails and go volunteer, basically. 424 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 2: And so just a week or so later, he came 425 00:24:17,060 --> 00:24:19,340 Speaker 2: back and said, I just want y'all to know, thank you. 426 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,100 Speaker 2: Because all of the slots. 427 00:24:23,020 --> 00:24:26,300 Speaker 3: Have been met in that children's ministry. 428 00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:32,860 Speaker 2: And so you know, also, about 75% of those volunteers 429 00:24:34,060 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 2: came from high school and college-aged young people. 430 00:24:37,900 --> 00:24:39,170 Speaker 3: Wow. 431 00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:42,410 Speaker 1: I forgot that he said that. 432 00:24:42,670 --> 00:24:45,350 Speaker 3: That's right. Spontaneous applause. 433 00:24:45,550 --> 00:24:50,010 Speaker 2: Yeah. You know? Probably all the boomers going, oh, phew. 434 00:24:50,410 --> 00:24:52,780 Speaker 2: But no, it was remarkable. 435 00:24:53,020 --> 00:24:53,830 Speaker 3: They stepped up. 436 00:24:54,420 --> 00:24:59,780 Speaker 2: They're doing these things. And so that was super encouraging 437 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 2: for me. 438 00:25:01,060 --> 00:25:01,580 Speaker 1: That was. 439 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:02,340 Speaker 2: That was. 440 00:25:02,540 --> 00:25:04,939 Speaker 1: And I hope that what we are talking about with 441 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:10,050 Speaker 1: this data is super encouraging to everybody in part because, again, 442 00:25:10,109 --> 00:25:14,590 Speaker 1: we've believed a myth that is discouraging and that myth 443 00:25:15,270 --> 00:25:18,730 Speaker 1: has implications because, again, it kind of takes the pressure 444 00:25:18,930 --> 00:25:22,629 Speaker 1: off of us. Like if I'm going off to college 445 00:25:22,670 --> 00:25:24,970 Speaker 1: and thinking, well, most people walk away from their faith. 446 00:25:25,010 --> 00:25:27,429 Speaker 1: I might have a few years of, you know, whatever. 447 00:25:27,710 --> 00:25:31,780 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, but it does. And sharing this data 448 00:25:31,859 --> 00:25:35,300 Speaker 1: and encouraging one another matters. Another thing, let me mention 449 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: before we go on, because we need to switch to 450 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: talking about how parents feel about all this, especially if 451 00:25:40,619 --> 00:25:44,810 Speaker 1: you're worried about your kids having maybe– floating away walking 452 00:25:44,850 --> 00:25:49,010 Speaker 1: away whatever it is but before that also to mention 453 00:25:49,150 --> 00:25:53,129 Speaker 1: in our research for for parents only now this was 454 00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:57,620 Speaker 1: quite a few years ago but we've continued to talk 455 00:25:57,650 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 1: to teenagers and we've continued to see these same trends 456 00:26:01,020 --> 00:26:03,139 Speaker 1: and what we're talking about with pew and barna is 457 00:26:03,220 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: confirming them yet again is that there were decisions that 458 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:14,810 Speaker 1: are made for a household where a child makes a faith, 459 00:26:16,050 --> 00:26:19,170 Speaker 1: it's important to the household, and so it's important to them, 460 00:26:19,850 --> 00:26:23,030 Speaker 1: even if they don't really fully understand it, even if 461 00:26:23,070 --> 00:26:26,790 Speaker 1: there's doubts and there's questions, it does make a difference. 462 00:26:26,830 --> 00:26:29,290 Speaker 1: And I'll give you one of the examples that just 463 00:26:29,390 --> 00:26:32,389 Speaker 1: hit me so hard. In For Parents Only, in the 464 00:26:32,430 --> 00:26:34,810 Speaker 1: research we did, we had more than, I can't remember 465 00:26:34,850 --> 00:26:37,070 Speaker 1: how many teenagers over the course of three years, it 466 00:26:37,090 --> 00:26:40,030 Speaker 1: was like 3,000 teenagers. I don't remember how many were 467 00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:44,070 Speaker 1: in the For Parents Only exactly. It might have been 500. 468 00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:48,609 Speaker 1: But in our, again, nationally representative survey of these teenagers, 469 00:26:49,650 --> 00:26:55,689 Speaker 1: we asked a question that was basically like, okay, if, 470 00:26:56,030 --> 00:26:58,490 Speaker 1: and by the way, these were 15, 16, and 17-year-olds. 471 00:26:58,730 --> 00:26:59,030 Speaker 3: Okay. 472 00:26:59,050 --> 00:27:03,610 Speaker 1: So they hadn't graduated high school yet. And so, but 473 00:27:03,650 --> 00:27:06,790 Speaker 1: they were old enough that they kind of had some autonomy, 474 00:27:07,410 --> 00:27:09,550 Speaker 1: that they could do things they wanted to do, basically. 475 00:27:09,570 --> 00:27:10,169 Speaker 2: Okay. 476 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,070 Speaker 1: If there is something that you want to do, but 477 00:27:18,130 --> 00:27:22,909 Speaker 1: you know your parents would disapprove, would you do it anyway? 478 00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:26,950 Speaker 1: And I gave them three answer choices. Yes, it was 479 00:27:27,030 --> 00:27:30,210 Speaker 1: basically the answer choice was, yeah, I kind of am 480 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: going to do what I want to do. Although, you know, 481 00:27:35,060 --> 00:27:36,420 Speaker 1: that's just it. I'm just going to do what I 482 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,580 Speaker 1: want to do. The second answer choice was, I probably 483 00:27:39,619 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: will do what I want to do, but I would 484 00:27:42,060 --> 00:27:44,420 Speaker 1: hope my parents would think I wasn't being too bad. 485 00:27:45,220 --> 00:27:48,140 Speaker 1: So there was like this justification, rationalization. 486 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,570 Speaker 2: But they took their parents' thoughts into consideration. 487 00:27:51,609 --> 00:27:53,910 Speaker 1: Well, not really because they still said that they would 488 00:27:53,970 --> 00:27:56,250 Speaker 1: do what they wanted to do. But it was kind 489 00:27:56,270 --> 00:27:58,250 Speaker 1: of that I gave them a middle choice so that 490 00:27:58,270 --> 00:28:00,670 Speaker 1: they felt like they could answer that honestly. Okay. 491 00:28:00,690 --> 00:28:01,090 Speaker 2: Okay. 492 00:28:01,510 --> 00:28:04,450 Speaker 1: But then the third answer choice was even if I 493 00:28:04,510 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: wanted to do it, I would probably stop myself. 494 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 2: Hmm. 495 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,939 Speaker 1: OK, so 70 percent of it was well, it was 496 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 1: basically two thirds. I can't remember the actual number. It 497 00:28:16,220 --> 00:28:21,130 Speaker 1: was close to 70 percent on average of the kids 498 00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:25,630 Speaker 1: said one of those two. I'm going to I'm going 499 00:28:25,690 --> 00:28:27,850 Speaker 1: to do what I want to do or my I 500 00:28:27,869 --> 00:28:29,710 Speaker 1: would hope my parents wouldn't think I was too bad, 501 00:28:29,730 --> 00:28:32,410 Speaker 1: but I'm still going to do it. OK, OK. Among 502 00:28:33,030 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: kids who went to Protestant Christian high schools. And that 503 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,890 Speaker 1: was as close as, I mean, there's all sorts of 504 00:28:42,190 --> 00:28:45,190 Speaker 1: issues around why Catholic schools didn't respond the same way, 505 00:28:45,230 --> 00:28:50,209 Speaker 1: but often Catholic schools are in neighborhoods that are disadvantaged 506 00:28:50,270 --> 00:28:54,290 Speaker 1: families and maybe have other family issues. So that's probably 507 00:28:54,350 --> 00:28:56,290 Speaker 1: why the Catholic schools didn't come up in this way. 508 00:28:56,750 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: But among kids who went to Protestant Christian high schools, 509 00:29:00,940 --> 00:29:03,420 Speaker 1: and this is about as close as we could get 510 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,030 Speaker 1: in a survey of to having some indication of, okay, 511 00:29:08,050 --> 00:29:12,550 Speaker 1: this is a family for whom their faith, their Christian faith, 512 00:29:13,130 --> 00:29:15,030 Speaker 1: is so much a part of their life that they 513 00:29:15,070 --> 00:29:18,790 Speaker 1: sent their kids to a Christian high school. So there's 514 00:29:18,830 --> 00:29:23,050 Speaker 1: plenty of other kids whose parents are highly faithful that 515 00:29:23,070 --> 00:29:25,140 Speaker 1: went to public high school. It just happens to be 516 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,820 Speaker 1: that in this data set, that's one of the proxies 517 00:29:28,900 --> 00:29:32,220 Speaker 1: that we could get at. So amongst kids who went 518 00:29:32,260 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: to Protestant Christian high schools, it was exactly the reverse. 70% 519 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:42,300 Speaker 1: of those kids said they would stop themselves from doing 520 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,180 Speaker 1: something if their parents might disapprove. And that showed me 521 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:52,719 Speaker 1: right there, nationally representative data, that what we do in 522 00:29:52,900 --> 00:29:57,660 Speaker 1: our households and trying to instill the precepts of the 523 00:29:57,740 --> 00:30:01,370 Speaker 1: faith and trying to create a real relationship with Jesus 524 00:30:01,930 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: and having our kids see us pray and whatever it 525 00:30:05,710 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: is that we do, it actually matters like in a 526 00:30:10,020 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: big way. And the encouraging thing for everybody is to 527 00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: know that now we know because of the Pew and 528 00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:23,140 Speaker 1: Barna data that that really is that, you know, walk 529 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,190 Speaker 1: with your kids along this path and, And when they're old, 530 00:30:27,230 --> 00:30:28,410 Speaker 1: they won't depart from it. 531 00:30:28,650 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 2: That's what our Lord says. Yep. So this, for the 532 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,950 Speaker 2: kids that have either walked away or the parents fear 533 00:30:40,930 --> 00:30:42,050 Speaker 2: that they will, you. 534 00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:43,210 Speaker 3: Know, be in that. 535 00:30:43,310 --> 00:30:45,350 Speaker 1: So the parent worry. Parent worry. 536 00:30:46,290 --> 00:30:46,710 Speaker 3: How do we. 537 00:30:47,630 --> 00:30:50,620 Speaker 2: Talk about that with the parents. Cause, cause honestly, for 538 00:30:50,660 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 2: some that we know, yeah, we have some close friends 539 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,820 Speaker 2: where this is, you know, the choices that their kids 540 00:30:56,860 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 2: have made. And I, I think that there is some, 541 00:31:02,220 --> 00:31:06,090 Speaker 2: a little bit of guilt that they, that they take. 542 00:31:05,950 --> 00:31:08,150 Speaker 3: Upon themselves in this. 543 00:31:08,250 --> 00:31:13,230 Speaker 2: Now, if, um, some of you have, have heard us 544 00:31:13,290 --> 00:31:16,830 Speaker 2: talk about our friend, Gary Thomas and, uh, Gary, uh, 545 00:31:17,100 --> 00:31:20,060 Speaker 2: Gary was on the podcast early on, one of our 546 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,180 Speaker 2: earliest podcasts. Oh, right. 547 00:31:23,300 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: He was. 548 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:29,140 Speaker 2: Yeah. And so anyways, Gary, I'm part of Gary's Substack group. 549 00:31:29,340 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah? Yeah. 550 00:31:30,740 --> 00:31:34,700 Speaker 2: So I get his regular writings. And let me just 551 00:31:34,740 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 2: say that if you guys want to be encouraged, he's prolific. 552 00:31:38,820 --> 00:31:43,740 Speaker 2: He writes so much. And it's such deep, meaningful content. 553 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:44,380 Speaker 1: I'm so jealous. 554 00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 555 00:31:44,780 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 3: He's so good. 556 00:31:45,620 --> 00:31:50,230 Speaker 2: He is so good. And he produces a lot of material. Well, anyways, 557 00:31:50,250 --> 00:31:53,330 Speaker 2: he has a new book coming out that he's talked 558 00:31:53,390 --> 00:31:55,150 Speaker 2: about with his Substack group. 559 00:31:55,610 --> 00:31:56,170 Speaker 1: Next year, right? 560 00:31:56,410 --> 00:32:01,230 Speaker 2: Next year, next fall in 2027. And it's called When 561 00:32:01,330 --> 00:32:06,410 Speaker 2: Christian Parents Hurt. And the book is specifically written for 562 00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:11,070 Speaker 2: Christian parents whose adult children are making choices that break 563 00:32:11,090 --> 00:32:15,170 Speaker 2: the parents' hearts, including walking away from the faith, cutting ties, 564 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 2: rejecting biblical values, et cetera. And, you know, Gary has 565 00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:26,060 Speaker 2: shared from time to time some of the chapters, you know, 566 00:32:26,580 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 2: as he was working through them. Oh, interesting. Yeah, and 567 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 2: it's been phenomenal. So I'm not going to go into 568 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,180 Speaker 2: what he's written, but for any of you, put this 569 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,890 Speaker 2: on your list for a year from now. To get 570 00:32:42,930 --> 00:32:46,290 Speaker 2: this book, it will be an encouragement for you. 571 00:32:46,550 --> 00:32:47,190 Speaker 3: Yeah. 572 00:32:47,410 --> 00:32:52,650 Speaker 2: It will hopefully give you some ability to walk through 573 00:32:52,690 --> 00:32:56,980 Speaker 2: a challenging season with the trust that God is walking 574 00:32:57,060 --> 00:32:59,540 Speaker 2: with you in this. And, you know, it's kind of 575 00:32:59,580 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 2: like when I think about how when someone gets sick 576 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 2: or needs physical healing for something. 577 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: Okay. 578 00:33:10,580 --> 00:33:12,070 Speaker 3: You know, some of my. 579 00:33:12,950 --> 00:33:17,610 Speaker 2: early belief system beliefs, you know, as I was working 580 00:33:17,630 --> 00:33:21,050 Speaker 2: through my Christian faith as a new believer decades ago, 581 00:33:21,550 --> 00:33:25,210 Speaker 2: you know, I have to admit that some of this was, well, 582 00:33:25,350 --> 00:33:29,700 Speaker 2: maybe it's because of this person's life isn't. 583 00:33:31,260 --> 00:33:34,700 Speaker 3: Isn't measuring up. There might be sin involved. 584 00:33:34,740 --> 00:33:38,020 Speaker 2: There might be these other things, but they're, There are 585 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 2: examples in scripture, but there are plenty of other examples 586 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,180 Speaker 2: that for the glory of God, some of these things, 587 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 2: and that we serve a loving God, but we don't 588 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 2: always understand why certain things occur in our own physical bodies, 589 00:33:55,860 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 2: in our relationships. But we are assured that all things 590 00:34:02,010 --> 00:34:06,110 Speaker 2: are working together for good. And so in these cases 591 00:34:06,210 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 2: where a parent is weighed down by this kind of 592 00:34:11,060 --> 00:34:15,050 Speaker 2: guilt did i miss it was i too harsh was 593 00:34:15,070 --> 00:34:17,090 Speaker 2: i was i too strict was i not strict. 594 00:34:16,930 --> 00:34:19,069 Speaker 3: Enough yeah how do we. 595 00:34:18,790 --> 00:34:23,190 Speaker 1: I think i think we have to encourage there's a 596 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,580 Speaker 1: That it doesn't mean you did anything wrong. Like, maybe 597 00:34:32,620 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: you did. Because we have to say we can chase. 598 00:34:35,100 --> 00:34:37,220 Speaker 2: Kids away from the faith, of course. 599 00:34:37,739 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that you did anything wrong. It 600 00:34:40,540 --> 00:34:45,299 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you failed. It's literally our kids are 601 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,850 Speaker 1: in God's hands, right? Now, okay, in the data, let's 602 00:34:49,870 --> 00:34:52,229 Speaker 1: just say what we do know and what we don't know. 603 00:34:52,870 --> 00:34:56,350 Speaker 1: The Pew actually asked, the Pew study asked people why 604 00:34:56,390 --> 00:34:56,710 Speaker 1: they left. 605 00:34:56,890 --> 00:34:57,870 Speaker 3: Okay, good, good. 606 00:34:58,090 --> 00:35:01,129 Speaker 1: And so there was no option for my parents were 607 00:35:01,190 --> 00:35:04,890 Speaker 1: stupid and they drove me away, right? So we don't 608 00:35:05,010 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: know what percentage of people that would apply to. My suspicion, 609 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,820 Speaker 1: it's just a suspicion, is that it's a pretty darn 610 00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:16,020 Speaker 1: small percentage, but we just don't know, right? It would 611 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: be nice to have it to assuage the guilt that 612 00:35:18,780 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 1: parents might feel. But what we do know is what 613 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:27,049 Speaker 1: they did answer is that And I think it was 614 00:35:27,110 --> 00:35:31,620 Speaker 1: like 51. Yeah. 51% of the kids said, and it 615 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,220 Speaker 1: was almost half for some of the others basically said, 616 00:35:34,620 --> 00:35:39,430 Speaker 1: essentially it's on me. Like I simply stopped believing. Like, 617 00:35:39,489 --> 00:35:43,620 Speaker 1: it wasn't important to my life. I let myself drift away. 618 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:48,060 Speaker 2: And this is 51% of that 18%? 619 00:35:48,060 --> 00:35:51,259 Speaker 1: This is, yes. This is of the folks who said 620 00:35:51,300 --> 00:35:52,940 Speaker 1: they left their childhood religion. 621 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:59,050 Speaker 2: Correct. And of the ones from a highly kind of, 622 00:35:59,150 --> 00:36:00,049 Speaker 2: or just all. 623 00:36:00,150 --> 00:36:05,830 Speaker 1: This is very specifically... Not people who left because they switched. 624 00:36:05,969 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 1: So somebody grew up Catholic and switched to being Protestant. 625 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 1: Or somebody grew up Muslim and became Christian. So this 626 00:36:12,340 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: is not that. Although that chart is in there as well. 627 00:36:15,300 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: This is literally those who have walked away from faith. 628 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 3: Right. And this is. 629 00:36:20,780 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: They've become the religious nuns. Correct. 630 00:36:22,940 --> 00:36:26,299 Speaker 2: I don't believe in anything. So I'm just trying to 631 00:36:26,460 --> 00:36:34,589 Speaker 2: understand that this data set is... Not remember early on 632 00:36:34,630 --> 00:36:37,089 Speaker 2: in the first part of this podcast, you talked about 633 00:36:37,130 --> 00:36:41,330 Speaker 2: how 82 percent remained consistent. 634 00:36:41,550 --> 00:36:44,470 Speaker 1: Correct. So this is basically the 18 percent. 635 00:36:44,660 --> 00:36:48,570 Speaker 2: This is the 18 percent of those who were from a. 636 00:36:50,890 --> 00:36:53,850 Speaker 1: So, okay, so this is, okay, it's not. It's of 637 00:36:53,910 --> 00:36:57,270 Speaker 1: the average. Correct. It was 60, it was 61% or so. 638 00:36:57,290 --> 00:36:59,790 Speaker 1: So let's just say 40, 60. This is not of 639 00:36:59,830 --> 00:37:01,410 Speaker 1: the highly religious household. 640 00:37:01,430 --> 00:37:01,569 Speaker 2: Correct. 641 00:37:01,590 --> 00:37:03,270 Speaker 3: And that number could be smaller. 642 00:37:03,350 --> 00:37:05,810 Speaker 1: That number could be even smaller. So this, actually, you're right. 643 00:37:05,850 --> 00:37:10,830 Speaker 1: This is of the 40% who, from the average household. Correct. 644 00:37:10,850 --> 00:37:12,090 Speaker 1: Not just the highly religious. 645 00:37:12,190 --> 00:37:13,250 Speaker 3: Okay, good, good, good. 646 00:37:13,469 --> 00:37:15,049 Speaker 1: Thank you for challenging me on that. 647 00:37:15,070 --> 00:37:17,390 Speaker 3: You know, I'm just, I'm slow on these things. 648 00:37:17,410 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 2: Okay. 649 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:19,900 Speaker 3: I figure others might be slow like me. 650 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: But this is the asking. They ask them, why'd you leave? 651 00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:24,980 Speaker 2: Okay. 652 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,299 Speaker 1: And that's the half. 653 00:37:27,390 --> 00:37:27,630 Speaker 2: Okay, got it. 654 00:37:27,620 --> 00:37:28,969 Speaker 1: They said, it's on me. 655 00:37:29,180 --> 00:37:29,469 Speaker 2: Okay. 656 00:37:29,710 --> 00:37:29,930 Speaker 3: Right? 657 00:37:29,989 --> 00:37:32,710 Speaker 1: Like, it just, I drifted away. Like, it was easier 658 00:37:32,770 --> 00:37:35,910 Speaker 1: to drift away than to go to church every Sunday. 659 00:37:35,969 --> 00:37:39,590 Speaker 1: And I just stopped believing it, basically. That is not 660 00:37:39,790 --> 00:37:40,530 Speaker 1: on a parent. 661 00:37:40,950 --> 00:37:41,569 Speaker 2: Yeah. Right? 662 00:37:41,750 --> 00:37:45,790 Speaker 1: Your child is an adult. You know, they're 21 years old. 663 00:37:45,850 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: They're a senior in college. That's their choice. And it's 664 00:37:49,860 --> 00:37:53,379 Speaker 1: hard for when that's happened. But we have to say 665 00:37:53,460 --> 00:37:57,810 Speaker 1: that's not on me as a as a parent. That's 666 00:37:57,930 --> 00:38:03,210 Speaker 1: on them. Now, were there things that maybe did contribute? Yes. 667 00:38:03,310 --> 00:38:07,310 Speaker 1: Like a third, 34 percent of the kids who walked 668 00:38:07,350 --> 00:38:11,700 Speaker 1: away said, OK, that it was the scandals of like 669 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,950 Speaker 1: a pastor's moral fall, you know, or church hurt or whatever. 34% 670 00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 1: said they left because of something like that. 671 00:38:21,180 --> 00:38:21,580 Speaker 3: Can I. 672 00:38:22,739 --> 00:38:27,940 Speaker 2: I'm not privy to the data set, but even that one, 673 00:38:27,980 --> 00:38:29,340 Speaker 2: the 34%. 674 00:38:29,340 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: Who said they left because of churchyard and scandals? 675 00:38:32,140 --> 00:38:35,320 Speaker 2: I wish I could drill down and ask another question 676 00:38:35,550 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 2: of each of those. 677 00:38:38,610 --> 00:38:39,410 Speaker 3: Survey takers. 678 00:38:40,110 --> 00:38:46,189 Speaker 2: Because sometimes I wonder if that... often makes a convenient 679 00:38:46,290 --> 00:38:53,489 Speaker 2: excuse for me to walk away from whatever. Whereas the 680 00:38:53,630 --> 00:38:57,770 Speaker 2: real reason, and I'm just making this up as I'm 681 00:38:57,810 --> 00:39:00,009 Speaker 2: going along, so I hope it doesn't show up on 682 00:39:00,050 --> 00:39:03,810 Speaker 2: some reel somewhere, but the real reason could be that 683 00:39:03,850 --> 00:39:06,930 Speaker 2: I don't want to confess to is I wanted to 684 00:39:06,969 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 2: sleep with my girlfriend or my boyfriend. 685 00:39:10,430 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 3: And I'm going to say. 686 00:39:12,420 --> 00:39:15,410 Speaker 2: That I'm walking away. 687 00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:19,900 Speaker 3: Because our church, there was hypocrites in the thing. And 688 00:39:19,940 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 3: it could be both. It could be both. 689 00:39:22,219 --> 00:39:26,549 Speaker 2: But sometimes I wonder if the church hurt gets blamed 690 00:39:26,590 --> 00:39:28,109 Speaker 2: a little bit more than. 691 00:39:28,010 --> 00:39:28,469 Speaker 1: It really is. 692 00:39:30,350 --> 00:39:33,240 Speaker 2: And even if there is, let's say church hurt. 693 00:39:34,450 --> 00:39:36,399 Speaker 1: Real sincere, like horrible church hurt. 694 00:39:36,420 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 3: There is that. 695 00:39:38,020 --> 00:39:41,940 Speaker 2: What is it different about those other 66% that were 696 00:39:42,060 --> 00:39:47,330 Speaker 2: able to stay consistent with their faith? as opposed to 697 00:39:47,430 --> 00:39:51,930 Speaker 2: me who walked away. And so therefore, I think that 698 00:39:52,670 --> 00:39:56,210 Speaker 2: a little bit more of that self-reflection on the part. 699 00:39:56,130 --> 00:39:58,770 Speaker 3: Of those people should be made. 700 00:39:58,950 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 2: And I'm just a bit skeptical of the basis that 701 00:40:04,700 --> 00:40:08,980 Speaker 2: church hurt is such a, and I get it, it happens. 702 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:10,900 Speaker 1: I hear people saying judgy much. 703 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:12,100 Speaker 3: Judgy much, Jeff. 704 00:40:12,730 --> 00:40:15,149 Speaker 2: But I do want to say that there are so 705 00:40:15,210 --> 00:40:18,990 Speaker 2: many good things that the church is doing and that 706 00:40:19,010 --> 00:40:22,220 Speaker 2: there are people out there living their life for Jesus, 707 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:28,140 Speaker 2: modeling his heart in what they do. And we can 708 00:40:28,219 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 2: choose to either look at those and those people and 709 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,350 Speaker 2: be encouraged by it and be inspired by it. Or 710 00:40:35,410 --> 00:40:38,910 Speaker 2: we could say, yeah, but that pastor over there at 711 00:40:38,969 --> 00:40:41,109 Speaker 2: that other church was a real jerk. Yeah. 712 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 1: Which he could have been. 713 00:40:42,739 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 2: Could have been. 714 00:40:43,580 --> 00:40:45,190 Speaker 1: But we can choose what we're looking at. 715 00:40:45,219 --> 00:40:47,290 Speaker 3: We have our responsibility ourselves. 716 00:40:47,430 --> 00:40:49,790 Speaker 1: Okay, I have to just say, because we're fans of 717 00:40:49,810 --> 00:40:53,569 Speaker 1: the church, we're fans of the local church, and the 718 00:40:53,610 --> 00:40:56,470 Speaker 1: body of Christ was set up this way for a reason, 719 00:40:56,930 --> 00:40:58,930 Speaker 1: with God knowing that it was going to be in 720 00:40:58,950 --> 00:41:04,060 Speaker 1: the hands of stupid humans, and yet still set it 721 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:05,100 Speaker 1: up this way. 722 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:05,190 Speaker 2: Yep. 723 00:41:06,370 --> 00:41:08,430 Speaker 1: I have to say that one of the things that 724 00:41:08,510 --> 00:41:11,850 Speaker 1: I love is this happens. This has got to happen 725 00:41:12,030 --> 00:41:16,130 Speaker 1: at least every other church that Jeff and I speak 726 00:41:16,250 --> 00:41:21,319 Speaker 1: at where we are like maybe because sometimes we do 727 00:41:21,340 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: a marriage event and then sometimes we stay over on 728 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,100 Speaker 1: Sunday morning and the pastor interviews us on stage as 729 00:41:27,180 --> 00:41:29,660 Speaker 1: the sermon time, you know, because that way it's still 730 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,919 Speaker 1: the pastor's message, but we're the subject matter experts or whatever. 731 00:41:34,030 --> 00:41:36,370 Speaker 1: We do like marriage Sunday, you know, that kind of thing. 732 00:41:36,830 --> 00:41:40,770 Speaker 1: And I swear to you, as we are in the 733 00:41:40,830 --> 00:41:45,509 Speaker 1: worship time before we go on stage and, you know, 734 00:41:45,550 --> 00:41:48,760 Speaker 1: the worship band is leading or whatever it is that's happening, 735 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,080 Speaker 1: at least half the time, Jeff will lean over to 736 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,720 Speaker 1: me and he'll whisper in, you know, a low voice, 737 00:41:58,180 --> 00:42:01,720 Speaker 1: salt of the earth. These folks are the church. 738 00:42:02,860 --> 00:42:03,820 Speaker 3: This is the hope. 739 00:42:03,860 --> 00:42:04,810 Speaker 1: This is the hope. 740 00:42:04,830 --> 00:42:05,750 Speaker 3: For our nation. 741 00:42:05,770 --> 00:42:06,370 Speaker 1: For our nation. 742 00:42:06,410 --> 00:42:06,910 Speaker 3: And the world. 743 00:42:06,969 --> 00:42:08,790 Speaker 1: And the world is these people. 744 00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:09,149 Speaker 2: Yep. 745 00:42:09,390 --> 00:42:13,799 Speaker 1: Is people like this. An average church, not in some, 746 00:42:13,930 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 1: you know, some super crazy, wonderful mega church that, you know, 747 00:42:19,340 --> 00:42:21,400 Speaker 1: the pastor's on TV all the time. This is just 748 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:26,090 Speaker 1: the average church in Enid, Oklahoma or whatever, like in 749 00:42:26,110 --> 00:42:29,379 Speaker 1: the middle of the country. And Jeff, he's like, this 750 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:31,140 Speaker 1: is the hope of the world. 751 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:31,589 Speaker 2: It is. 752 00:42:31,630 --> 00:42:34,330 Speaker 1: You know, these people showing Jesus as the hope of 753 00:42:34,350 --> 00:42:37,690 Speaker 1: the world. So anyway, so back to, we got to 754 00:42:37,710 --> 00:42:43,370 Speaker 1: wrap this up. Back to the research that I hope 755 00:42:43,410 --> 00:42:49,379 Speaker 1: has been hopeful to everybody. Like hearing that, you know, 756 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,500 Speaker 1: most of the kids, if we grow up in this household, 757 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: in the household of faith, most of those kids, 82% 758 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 1: of kids do. 759 00:42:58,219 --> 00:43:00,780 Speaker 2: That is encouraging. 760 00:43:01,060 --> 00:43:03,500 Speaker 1: So what do we do about it? Just really briefly, 761 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,660 Speaker 1: I honestly think one of the most important things is 762 00:43:07,980 --> 00:43:11,830 Speaker 1: if you are in that frame right now, if you 763 00:43:11,850 --> 00:43:19,770 Speaker 1: have kids, unapologetically walk your faith out, but don't freak 764 00:43:19,969 --> 00:43:25,550 Speaker 1: out when questions come to you. Let them ask the questions. 765 00:43:25,660 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 1: Questions aren't the same thing as rejections. And so that's 766 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,580 Speaker 1: a big one for me. You always made our house 767 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,630 Speaker 1: safe for really honest conversations. 768 00:43:36,350 --> 00:43:37,390 Speaker 3: You know, it's just. 769 00:43:39,810 --> 00:43:43,590 Speaker 2: For our kids to know that they could ask anything 770 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,900 Speaker 2: and we weren't going to be all judgy. 771 00:43:48,900 --> 00:43:50,500 Speaker 3: We definitely had an opinion. 772 00:43:51,150 --> 00:43:51,350 Speaker 2: Yeah. 773 00:43:51,450 --> 00:43:52,739 Speaker 3: And we let them know that. 774 00:43:53,020 --> 00:43:53,879 Speaker 1: That's true. We did. 775 00:43:54,219 --> 00:43:58,460 Speaker 2: But for them, you know, what we value was curiosity. 776 00:43:58,480 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 1: And you have to come to this for you. 777 00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:00,540 Speaker 3: For sure. 778 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:01,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 779 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,890 Speaker 1: Yeah. So I think the modeling of the faith in 780 00:44:05,910 --> 00:44:09,950 Speaker 1: your own life, if you're in that phase, is particularly important. 781 00:44:10,510 --> 00:44:14,549 Speaker 1: Unapologetically trying to guide your kids, but saying you're going 782 00:44:14,570 --> 00:44:16,930 Speaker 1: to have to make this your own. And then if 783 00:44:17,090 --> 00:44:19,930 Speaker 1: you're in a family where your kids have walked away 784 00:44:20,030 --> 00:44:22,989 Speaker 1: or you're worried about them walking away, I think the 785 00:44:23,050 --> 00:44:26,110 Speaker 1: key is this is where you have to cling to 786 00:44:26,130 --> 00:44:30,549 Speaker 1: God and trust. Like cling with everything in you that 787 00:44:30,610 --> 00:44:31,970 Speaker 1: it's not the end of the story. 788 00:44:32,140 --> 00:44:32,590 Speaker 3: And pray. 789 00:44:32,969 --> 00:44:35,460 Speaker 2: And just, you know, I mean, it sounds, look, there 790 00:44:35,500 --> 00:44:40,960 Speaker 2: are things that we can do, but forcing a change 791 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,540 Speaker 2: in the human heart is not one of them. You know, 792 00:44:44,580 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 2: that is the Holy Spirit that is that individual's, you know, 793 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:54,319 Speaker 2: kind of right to do. Yeah. But certainly we can 794 00:44:54,510 --> 00:44:58,330 Speaker 2: pray for our kids such that God would cause the 795 00:44:58,370 --> 00:45:03,030 Speaker 2: conditions to be ripe for them to return to that faith. 796 00:45:03,230 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 2: And we can make ourselves available so that they feel that, 797 00:45:09,260 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 2: you know, like that father who ran to his son 798 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:19,779 Speaker 2: who had spent... all his inheritance somewhere. And, you know, 799 00:45:19,820 --> 00:45:23,759 Speaker 2: he was ashamed to come back. But that father of 800 00:45:23,820 --> 00:45:27,840 Speaker 2: that prodigal ran to him. And when he came back, 801 00:45:27,969 --> 00:45:32,049 Speaker 2: he didn't say, oh, what you wasted. Oh, I wish 802 00:45:32,070 --> 00:45:35,430 Speaker 2: you would have made other choices. He said, let's celebrate. 803 00:45:36,530 --> 00:45:40,549 Speaker 2: And that's what our kids should hear from us. 804 00:45:41,330 --> 00:45:46,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really... That's really good and it's really true. 805 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,970 Speaker 1: So what's our one thing? You should explain. 806 00:45:50,620 --> 00:45:56,870 Speaker 2: You know, we always leave that question of what's something 807 00:45:56,950 --> 00:46:02,209 Speaker 2: if you could only remember this. One is, for me, 808 00:46:02,950 --> 00:46:06,890 Speaker 2: it's the information you hear may not be. 809 00:46:08,510 --> 00:46:09,750 Speaker 3: Accurate information. 810 00:46:09,770 --> 00:46:09,940 Speaker 2: And.... 811 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:13,760 Speaker 3: Don't lose hope. 812 00:46:14,100 --> 00:46:19,750 Speaker 2: Yeah. Because we have an enemy who is trying again 813 00:46:19,770 --> 00:46:23,989 Speaker 2: and again and again to crush our hope and our 814 00:46:24,050 --> 00:46:28,279 Speaker 2: trust in a heart of a loving father. And our 815 00:46:28,340 --> 00:46:31,600 Speaker 2: father loves us and he loves our kids. 816 00:46:32,739 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 3: And, you know, keep trusting that. 817 00:46:36,219 --> 00:46:40,500 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. I think my one thing that I 818 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:45,169 Speaker 1: would just encourage everybody to do is to, I mean, 819 00:46:45,630 --> 00:46:49,750 Speaker 1: this is going to sound crazy, but truly do whatever 820 00:46:49,790 --> 00:46:54,360 Speaker 1: you can to debunk the discouraging numbers. Because those do 821 00:46:54,450 --> 00:46:57,440 Speaker 1: have implications for the hearts of the parents and the 822 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 1: kids and their beliefs about what's likely to happen. And 823 00:47:01,739 --> 00:47:05,400 Speaker 1: so my encouragement to everybody is the next time when 824 00:47:05,420 --> 00:47:08,180 Speaker 1: someone says, well, you know, most kids walk away. is 825 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:12,549 Speaker 1: for you to go, actually, that isn't quite accurate. And 826 00:47:12,590 --> 00:47:15,690 Speaker 1: you can share the real data and, again, be part 827 00:47:15,730 --> 00:47:16,029 Speaker 1: of hope. 828 00:47:17,010 --> 00:47:18,830 Speaker 2: Or you could say, you know, that's a lie and 829 00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:20,290 Speaker 2: you are perpetuating a lie. 830 00:47:21,050 --> 00:47:22,110 Speaker 1: Oh, gosh. Okay. 831 00:47:22,290 --> 00:47:24,580 Speaker 3: Probably your softer answer is better. What were we saying 832 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 3: about judgy? Okay. 833 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,540 Speaker 1: All right. So we hope this episode was helpful. If 834 00:47:28,620 --> 00:47:31,520 Speaker 1: you are not a subscriber to our podcast already, please 835 00:47:31,580 --> 00:47:33,879 Speaker 1: go ahead and subscribe so you don't miss these kinds 836 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,350 Speaker 1: of episodes. And Hey, if you know somebody who would 837 00:47:37,370 --> 00:47:40,530 Speaker 1: be encouraged by this, who needs to know this, please 838 00:47:40,550 --> 00:47:43,549 Speaker 1: share today's episode with them on social media and tag us. 839 00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:48,069 Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Thanks for listening to I Wish You 840 00:47:48,090 --> 00:47:51,620 Speaker 1: Could Hear This. Remember to subscribe to our podcast and 841 00:47:51,700 --> 00:47:55,940 Speaker 1: as always, forward today's audio or video link to a friend, counselor, 842 00:47:56,020 --> 00:48:02,160 Speaker 1: or pastor who would be encouraged. 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