1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:13,910 Speaker 1: Life Audio. This is Donna Jones, and you are listening 2 00:00:13,970 --> 00:00:17,550 Speaker 1: to That's Just What I Needed. Hey, friend, if you've 3 00:00:17,590 --> 00:00:20,490 Speaker 1: ever been in a conversation where you've walked away thinking, wow, 4 00:00:20,650 --> 00:00:23,330 Speaker 1: that was just what I needed, you know how life-giving 5 00:00:23,350 --> 00:00:26,020 Speaker 1: that can be. Well, that's what this podcast is all about. 6 00:00:26,410 --> 00:00:29,300 Speaker 1: We're women who want to know, love, and follow God 7 00:00:29,460 --> 00:00:32,160 Speaker 1: in our real lives, but sometimes wonder just how to 8 00:00:32,220 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: do it. So each week, we'll talk about what Paul 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: and God looks like in the midst of daily demands 10 00:00:37,300 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: and crazy cultural chaos. Because this isn't just what we need. 11 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:46,180 Speaker 1: It's actually exactly what we need. Hey, hey, my friend. 12 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast. Hey, before we get into our 13 00:00:50,540 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: wonderful conversation with my guest today, let me ask you 14 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,610 Speaker 1: a question. Do you subscribe to this podcast? Because if not, 15 00:00:57,950 --> 00:01:00,870 Speaker 1: I have some amazing guests. You don't want to miss 16 00:01:00,930 --> 00:01:04,490 Speaker 1: a single one. and just some amazing content coming up. 17 00:01:05,050 --> 00:01:07,610 Speaker 1: So if you don't subscribe, why don't you do that 18 00:01:07,770 --> 00:01:10,149 Speaker 1: right now? You don't want to miss a single episode. 19 00:01:10,270 --> 00:01:12,130 Speaker 1: And while you're at it, I would love to follow 20 00:01:12,170 --> 00:01:15,030 Speaker 1: you on social media. You'll find me at Donna A. 21 00:01:15,069 --> 00:01:18,810 Speaker 1: Jones on Instagram, Donna Jones, speaker and author on Facebook. 22 00:01:19,170 --> 00:01:22,869 Speaker 1: And you can go to my website, donnajones.org, where you 23 00:01:22,910 --> 00:01:25,830 Speaker 1: can sign up for a free newsletter that I send out. 24 00:01:25,870 --> 00:01:28,930 Speaker 1: It's a dose of spiritual encouragement. I would love to 25 00:01:28,970 --> 00:01:32,660 Speaker 1: connect with you that way. That's donnajones.org. Well, let me 26 00:01:32,690 --> 00:01:35,660 Speaker 1: tell you a little bit about today's guest. Her name 27 00:01:35,900 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: is Janine Amapola Ward. Janine's an author. She's a podcast host. 28 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:46,410 Speaker 1: She's a Christian influencer with, get this, over 2.8 million followers. 29 00:01:46,970 --> 00:01:49,140 Speaker 1: I mean, is that like insane or what? But what 30 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,780 Speaker 1: I love about Janine is with all of those followers, 31 00:01:52,860 --> 00:01:55,740 Speaker 1: she is so committed to Jesus and she has written 32 00:01:55,760 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: this great new devotional to help women really abide in Christ. 33 00:02:00,540 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: So I am so excited for you to meet my 34 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:07,730 Speaker 1: new friend, Janine. Well, Janine, welcome to the podcast. 35 00:02:08,070 --> 00:02:10,450 Speaker 2: Thank you, Donna, for having me. It's an honor and 36 00:02:10,510 --> 00:02:11,310 Speaker 2: a joy to be here. 37 00:02:11,330 --> 00:02:15,820 Speaker 1: Oh, well, I feel the same way about you. So 38 00:02:16,060 --> 00:02:17,810 Speaker 1: tell us, I mean, I, you know, I gave you 39 00:02:17,830 --> 00:02:21,310 Speaker 1: a little intro before we came on, but I am 40 00:02:21,550 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: so interested in how you became a influencer. I mean, 41 00:02:27,580 --> 00:02:29,740 Speaker 1: to me, that's always just like, what in the world? 42 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:30,700 Speaker 1: How did that even happen? 43 00:02:31,190 --> 00:02:33,450 Speaker 3: It's just so funny even hearing that word because I 44 00:02:33,690 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 3: started when I was 17 years old and the word influencer, 45 00:02:36,860 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 3: it wasn't even a thing. People back in the day 46 00:02:38,940 --> 00:02:41,980 Speaker 3: more were like, you're a YouTuber because that's how I started. 47 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,940 Speaker 3: I started off of YouTube and now I'm 32 and 48 00:02:44,980 --> 00:02:47,370 Speaker 3: I feel like everyone and their mom is an influencer. 49 00:02:47,810 --> 00:02:50,930 Speaker 3: And I feel like people have a really negative connotation 50 00:02:50,970 --> 00:02:53,730 Speaker 3: around the word, but it honestly was just something I 51 00:02:53,770 --> 00:02:56,829 Speaker 3: started in high school and I was just using my 52 00:02:56,870 --> 00:02:59,270 Speaker 3: dad's camera, filming videos in my bedroom. 53 00:02:59,630 --> 00:03:03,100 Speaker 2: And Was not popular, not trendy. Everyone thought I was weird. 54 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 3: And it just blew up and became a full-time job 55 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,420 Speaker 3: and a career that I've just loved ever since. And 56 00:03:09,460 --> 00:03:11,780 Speaker 3: I'm super thankful for all the privileges that it gives. 57 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,740 Speaker 3: But it was a happy accident. But I do feel 58 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,299 Speaker 3: like the Lord has been all over it. He's guided me. 59 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,139 Speaker 3: He's directed my steps and directed my content. And it's 60 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,090 Speaker 3: something I do full-time now. And I just love it. 61 00:03:21,380 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: You know, being an influencer can be super surfacy. Typically, 62 00:03:24,900 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: it is. But you have come out with this new 63 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: book and it is not surface. In fact, it's deep 64 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,650 Speaker 1: and it's kind of like the real meaning of walking 65 00:03:33,660 --> 00:03:36,910 Speaker 1: with God is. So you came out with this devotional 66 00:03:37,210 --> 00:03:40,130 Speaker 1: called The Abiding Way. And it's so funny. I was 67 00:03:40,230 --> 00:03:42,910 Speaker 1: reading a little bit about it. And you, when you 68 00:03:42,930 --> 00:03:45,830 Speaker 1: first heard the word abide, you didn't even know what 69 00:03:45,870 --> 00:03:48,430 Speaker 1: that meant. And I'm guessing probably some of our listeners 70 00:03:48,450 --> 00:03:52,369 Speaker 1: are kind of wondering what that means too, because it's 71 00:03:52,410 --> 00:03:54,570 Speaker 1: not It's not a word that we use every day. 72 00:03:54,590 --> 00:03:57,790 Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about how you even came 73 00:03:57,830 --> 00:04:00,750 Speaker 1: to hear the word abide and then what it means, 74 00:04:00,790 --> 00:04:01,790 Speaker 1: how you figured out what it meant. 75 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,780 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I share in the very beginning of the 76 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:06,820 Speaker 3: opening of the book, I did not even know what 77 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 3: this word meant at all. 78 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:08,550 Speaker 2: It was 2019. 79 00:04:08,540 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 3: I had a friend who she just hears from the 80 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,070 Speaker 3: Lord and she has been a consistent theme in. 81 00:04:14,030 --> 00:04:14,850 Speaker 2: My whole life. 82 00:04:15,510 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 3: Or since knowing her more like it. And she was 83 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,460 Speaker 3: the one who said, hey, like, does the word abide 84 00:04:20,500 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 3: mean anything to you? 85 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 2: And I was like, I don't even know what that means. 86 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,540 Speaker 3: And I literally look it up and it means, I 87 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,940 Speaker 3: have here in the intro, to accept or act in 88 00:04:28,980 --> 00:04:32,409 Speaker 3: accordance with a rule. And I'm like, that word means 89 00:04:32,470 --> 00:04:34,750 Speaker 3: nothing to me, Sarah. Like, I don't know what that means. 90 00:04:34,810 --> 00:04:37,610 Speaker 3: And it didn't sound very appealing or like a word I. 91 00:04:37,589 --> 00:04:38,469 Speaker 2: Wanted to live by. 92 00:04:39,390 --> 00:04:43,190 Speaker 3: And I realized that the word abide meant something completely 93 00:04:43,270 --> 00:04:47,070 Speaker 3: different biblically to our lives. And so she was like, 94 00:04:47,089 --> 00:04:49,510 Speaker 3: that's not the word that I mean. I mean, like 95 00:04:49,650 --> 00:04:52,250 Speaker 3: biblically abiding. And she's like, does it have any meaning 96 00:04:52,290 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 3: to you? 97 00:04:52,470 --> 00:04:53,290 Speaker 2: And I was like, no. 98 00:04:53,589 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 3: And this word was spoken to me for over six 99 00:04:56,580 --> 00:04:58,900 Speaker 3: years now. And it's just something that God has been 100 00:04:58,980 --> 00:05:01,860 Speaker 3: slowly but surely teaching me. And the word abide means 101 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 3: to dwell, remain, stay. And another way that I like 102 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,380 Speaker 3: to describe it is linger, linger, linger. 103 00:05:08,820 --> 00:05:09,300 Speaker 1: Longer. 104 00:05:09,940 --> 00:05:13,589 Speaker 3: And that is something God has been teaching me my 105 00:05:13,830 --> 00:05:14,490 Speaker 3: whole life. 106 00:05:14,570 --> 00:05:17,810 Speaker 2: But specifically, since she spoke that word over me, it's 107 00:05:17,830 --> 00:05:21,500 Speaker 2: been something I've been very aware of. And it just 108 00:05:21,540 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 2: reminds me, okay, Lord, am I abiding in you? 109 00:05:24,220 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 3: And if someone doesn't know where the word comes from, 110 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 3: it comes from John 15, where Jesus tells us, hey, 111 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,380 Speaker 3: abide in me as I abide in you, because apart 112 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,859 Speaker 3: from me, you won't bear fruit and you can do nothing. 113 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 3: And it's just this reminder that in order to stay 114 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,110 Speaker 3: connected to Jesus, we have to abide in him. If 115 00:05:42,170 --> 00:05:44,390 Speaker 3: we want to bear fruit, if we want to have 116 00:05:44,490 --> 00:05:47,690 Speaker 3: fullness of joy and have our joy be complete, We 117 00:05:47,890 --> 00:05:50,550 Speaker 3: have to abide in Jesus. So it looks like in 118 00:05:50,950 --> 00:05:54,289 Speaker 3: every single aspect of your life, you stay connected to 119 00:05:54,330 --> 00:05:56,510 Speaker 3: him and you ask Jesus, does this honor you? 120 00:05:56,550 --> 00:05:58,630 Speaker 2: Does this help me bear fruit? Does this make me 121 00:05:58,670 --> 00:05:59,490 Speaker 2: look more like you? 122 00:06:00,029 --> 00:06:04,150 Speaker 3: Now that's difficult and it is a sanctification, purification process, 123 00:06:04,230 --> 00:06:07,550 Speaker 3: but that is essentially what the word abide means. 124 00:06:07,570 --> 00:06:09,610 Speaker 1: I love that. And John 15 is actually one of 125 00:06:09,630 --> 00:06:13,130 Speaker 1: my favorite passages of scripture. So if you're listening right 126 00:06:13,170 --> 00:06:15,750 Speaker 1: now and you're like, I don't really know what's in 127 00:06:15,790 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: John 15. Both Tanita and I tell you, girl, go 128 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,979 Speaker 1: check it out. It honestly, it is one of my 129 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: go-to passages. And it has been for my whole Christian 130 00:06:24,900 --> 00:06:27,750 Speaker 1: life because I feel like it is the foundation of 131 00:06:27,810 --> 00:06:30,210 Speaker 1: what it really means to walk with God. So I 132 00:06:30,250 --> 00:06:33,990 Speaker 1: love that. Now, it's interesting because you open in your 133 00:06:34,010 --> 00:06:37,690 Speaker 1: book with this observation that women today can feel like 134 00:06:37,710 --> 00:06:41,380 Speaker 1: they're running a race with no finish line. And I 135 00:06:41,420 --> 00:06:43,650 Speaker 1: bet you that a lot of people, a lot of 136 00:06:43,700 --> 00:06:47,630 Speaker 1: our listening friends right now, they're like, oh, that's so me. 137 00:06:47,870 --> 00:06:50,190 Speaker 1: I just feel like I'm spinning my wheels. They're like, 138 00:06:50,350 --> 00:06:52,350 Speaker 1: where is this all going? And I'm just thinking it's 139 00:06:52,410 --> 00:06:55,670 Speaker 1: so funny because I have all kinds of listeners from 140 00:06:55,950 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: gals who are kind of just starting out, just starting 141 00:06:58,980 --> 00:07:03,419 Speaker 1: their families, all the way to empty nesters. And it's 142 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,060 Speaker 1: so funny because... Women on the front end are kind 143 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,660 Speaker 1: of like, oh my goodness, where is this going? I 144 00:07:09,700 --> 00:07:13,340 Speaker 1: seem to be doing the same thing every day, like 145 00:07:13,380 --> 00:07:15,500 Speaker 1: I'm on a treadmill. And then women on the other 146 00:07:15,740 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: end feel like, wow, I did that every day, but 147 00:07:19,180 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: now my kids have flown the coop and like, okay, 148 00:07:22,780 --> 00:07:25,580 Speaker 1: so now what? So I feel like all women can 149 00:07:25,730 --> 00:07:28,230 Speaker 1: relate to that. So what was happening in your own 150 00:07:28,270 --> 00:07:32,170 Speaker 1: life when you realized that striving wasn't working? So much. 151 00:07:32,430 --> 00:07:34,410 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, like I said, I had to learn 152 00:07:34,450 --> 00:07:37,670 Speaker 3: these lessons the hard way. And when this word really 153 00:07:37,730 --> 00:07:40,130 Speaker 3: became real to me, it was when I was at 154 00:07:40,310 --> 00:07:43,750 Speaker 3: the peak of my career. I'm living alone in California. 155 00:07:43,970 --> 00:07:46,810 Speaker 3: I'm trying to figure out dating. I am, you know, 156 00:07:46,910 --> 00:07:49,530 Speaker 3: trying to make this whole social media thing happen in 157 00:07:49,570 --> 00:07:50,550 Speaker 3: my own strength. 158 00:07:50,790 --> 00:07:52,540 Speaker 2: I am just so burnt out. 159 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,179 Speaker 3: Comparing myself like crazy, trying to go to church, checking 160 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 3: all the boxes, just doing things that I thought, you know, 161 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,060 Speaker 3: a good Christian is supposed to do, all while my 162 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:03,940 Speaker 3: heart was so far from the Lord. And I felt 163 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 3: like I was living a double life. I was living 164 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 3: a hypocritical life. You know, I'm still getting drunk on 165 00:08:09,460 --> 00:08:11,870 Speaker 3: the weekends. I'm partying with my friends and I'm going 166 00:08:11,900 --> 00:08:14,210 Speaker 3: to church and I'm like, okay, like, I love you, God, 167 00:08:14,250 --> 00:08:18,070 Speaker 3: but I'm still living this double life. And everything that 168 00:08:18,110 --> 00:08:20,150 Speaker 3: I was doing, I felt like I was doing it 169 00:08:20,350 --> 00:08:23,330 Speaker 3: either out of performance or out of obligation for God. 170 00:08:23,620 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 3: My heart was far from him. And I don't feel 171 00:08:25,620 --> 00:08:29,650 Speaker 3: like I really knew Jesus myself. And all of a sudden, 172 00:08:29,810 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 3: I'm going through this heartbreak and it just wrecked me. 173 00:08:33,860 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 3: So that forced me, number one, to go to the Lord. 174 00:08:35,940 --> 00:08:39,580 Speaker 3: And number two, I lived alone, not by choice, but 175 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 3: I moved alone. And then the pandemic happened, which is 176 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 3: number three. And so like all these three circumstances, I'm 177 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,670 Speaker 3: all by myself. Pandemic happens. I can barely see a 178 00:08:48,809 --> 00:08:51,490 Speaker 3: single soul. And I'm going through just like one of 179 00:08:51,530 --> 00:08:54,229 Speaker 3: the worst heartbreaks of my entire life. And usually you 180 00:08:54,590 --> 00:08:55,810 Speaker 3: can blame God for these things. 181 00:08:55,870 --> 00:08:56,429 Speaker 1: Why God? 182 00:08:56,490 --> 00:08:59,310 Speaker 3: But in the opposite for me, it pushed me towards 183 00:08:59,370 --> 00:09:01,710 Speaker 3: God where I was like, I have nothing else to 184 00:09:01,750 --> 00:09:03,810 Speaker 3: run to because when I try to put all my 185 00:09:03,850 --> 00:09:06,229 Speaker 3: worth and my value into social media and how my 186 00:09:06,410 --> 00:09:09,150 Speaker 3: numbers are performing, if I'm growing, what brand deals I'm getting, 187 00:09:09,750 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 3: or what relationship I'm in, or what friends I'm in, 188 00:09:12,030 --> 00:09:14,189 Speaker 3: or what trip I'm going in. Like, you know, the pandemic, 189 00:09:14,309 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 3: it just stripped literally everything from every single person. And 190 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,140 Speaker 3: then it was just me and God and my thoughts. 191 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:21,900 Speaker 3: And I was alone in my apartment. I was like, 192 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 3: you know what? Why don't I pick up this Bible 193 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 3: and learn who Jesus is for myself? And I was 194 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,980 Speaker 3: raised a Christian, but I feel like I never fully understood. 195 00:09:29,580 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: Who Jesus was. 196 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,090 Speaker 3: And I read the Gospel of John, which is why 197 00:09:33,140 --> 00:09:34,620 Speaker 3: I did my book on this, because it was the 198 00:09:34,710 --> 00:09:37,209 Speaker 3: book that transformed my life. And all of a sudden, 199 00:09:37,570 --> 00:09:41,950 Speaker 3: I understood for the first time ever who Jesus truly was. 200 00:09:42,010 --> 00:09:45,829 Speaker 3: And I was like, wow, I have had this all backwards. 201 00:09:45,929 --> 00:09:49,829 Speaker 3: I've had misconceptions about him. I just saw the tenderness 202 00:09:49,910 --> 00:09:52,689 Speaker 3: and the character of him and how sweet. 203 00:09:52,309 --> 00:09:53,210 Speaker 1: He really is. 204 00:09:53,450 --> 00:09:54,990 Speaker 2: And I began that whole. 205 00:09:54,870 --> 00:09:57,290 Speaker 3: Abiding process of what does it look like to stop 206 00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:59,950 Speaker 3: living for numbers and for followers and people? 207 00:10:00,030 --> 00:10:00,449 Speaker 1: Pleasing? 208 00:10:00,470 --> 00:10:02,350 Speaker 3: And if I have a relationship, if I don't, I mean, 209 00:10:02,370 --> 00:10:05,380 Speaker 3: it was a long journey of Jesus pruning me like 210 00:10:05,390 --> 00:10:07,829 Speaker 3: he does in John 15. And it's just been a 211 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,220 Speaker 3: beautiful but also hard process of him cutting off every 212 00:10:11,260 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 3: branch that does not produce fruit. But that's what he does. 213 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 3: He takes those tough times and he uses them for 214 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 3: his glory. And if you let him purify you, he will. 215 00:10:19,980 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: That is so good. As you were just talking, I mean, 216 00:10:23,330 --> 00:10:26,750 Speaker 1: your world is social media influencing. For most of us 217 00:10:26,790 --> 00:10:29,450 Speaker 1: that are listening, that's not our world. But we still 218 00:10:29,490 --> 00:10:34,430 Speaker 1: have performance. We still have obligation. We measure ourselves based 219 00:10:34,490 --> 00:10:38,150 Speaker 1: on how we are performing in whatever we are doing, 220 00:10:38,270 --> 00:10:42,030 Speaker 1: whatever our job is or our context is. Or we 221 00:10:42,070 --> 00:10:45,580 Speaker 1: feel an obligation. Okay, Lord, if I do this, then 222 00:10:45,620 --> 00:10:48,980 Speaker 1: you're sort of obligated to do that, right? And so 223 00:10:49,020 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: it's a transactional relationship with the Lord. And it's really 224 00:10:52,780 --> 00:10:56,460 Speaker 1: interesting because I just started seminary. Oh, congrats. Thanks, thanks. 225 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,220 Speaker 1: And so I'm in this women's leadership cohort in seminary, 226 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: and we started reading this book called With. And it's 227 00:11:03,340 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: talking about how even in religious communities of faith, we 228 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: are motivated, I guess, by performance or by obligation or 229 00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:16,490 Speaker 1: by duty. And really, we're kind of missing living with God, 230 00:11:16,690 --> 00:11:20,010 Speaker 1: which is exactly what you're talking about, abiding. So we're 231 00:11:20,030 --> 00:11:21,550 Speaker 1: going to take a quick break. And Janine, when we 232 00:11:21,570 --> 00:11:24,250 Speaker 1: come back, because you had time to really explore this. 233 00:11:24,610 --> 00:11:26,829 Speaker 1: So I want you to walk through, like, how do 234 00:11:26,870 --> 00:11:28,790 Speaker 1: we do it? What does that look like? What have 235 00:11:28,809 --> 00:11:31,459 Speaker 1: you learned? So I have lots of questions for you 236 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,950 Speaker 1: after the break. All right, so Janine, you're talking to 237 00:11:36,030 --> 00:11:39,350 Speaker 1: us about abiding in Christ and just living with him. 238 00:11:39,710 --> 00:11:42,370 Speaker 1: Tell us, how do we even begin to do that 239 00:11:42,510 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: if we don't really even know what that looks like? 240 00:11:46,020 --> 00:11:48,500 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I mean, first of all, great question, Donna, 241 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,700 Speaker 3: because I think everyone is trying to figure out, what 242 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 3: does abiding practically mean? And I'm a practical person because 243 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 3: if I hear a lot of deep theological. 244 00:11:55,580 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 2: Things, I'm like, great, but how do I apply that 245 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:58,710 Speaker 2: to my everyday life? 246 00:11:58,750 --> 00:12:01,910 Speaker 3: And that's something I'm really big on is practical biblical advice. 247 00:12:02,309 --> 00:12:04,570 Speaker 3: So first of all, when I would read John 15 248 00:12:04,570 --> 00:12:06,730 Speaker 3: and I would ask the Holy Spirit, what does this mean? 249 00:12:06,870 --> 00:12:10,150 Speaker 3: Reveal yourself to me in your scripture. But abiding, like 250 00:12:10,220 --> 00:12:13,820 Speaker 3: I said, it means to dwell, remain, stay, and linger. 251 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 3: So this is going to be a continual journey because 252 00:12:18,220 --> 00:12:21,300 Speaker 3: this path of abiding is not linear. It's not a completion. 253 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,620 Speaker 3: It's not a finish line. This is a daily act 254 00:12:24,950 --> 00:12:28,410 Speaker 3: of obedience, daily steps of faithfulness for the rest of 255 00:12:28,450 --> 00:12:28,810 Speaker 3: your life. 256 00:12:28,850 --> 00:12:31,580 Speaker 2: The Bible doesn't say, Okay, abide in me when things 257 00:12:31,620 --> 00:12:32,020 Speaker 2: are good. 258 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 3: Abide in me until you get the job you wanted, 259 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 3: till you got the baby you prayed for, till you 260 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,860 Speaker 3: got the husband you wanted. Oh, then you're done abiding. 261 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,420 Speaker 3: It's abide in me in all you do. And so 262 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,660 Speaker 3: this is a forever journey. And thank God, because if 263 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,660 Speaker 3: we don't abide, you're going to wither. You're not going 264 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,490 Speaker 3: to get the nourishment, the source of life. And so 265 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,449 Speaker 3: it looks like every single day doesn't need to be performance. 266 00:12:55,550 --> 00:12:57,750 Speaker 3: It's not a checklist. It's not just that I read 267 00:12:57,790 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 3: my Bible. I'm good for the day. It's a constant 268 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 3: communication and communion with the Lord. So you wake up, 269 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,540 Speaker 3: good morning, Jesus. Like, Lord, I give you today. I 270 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 3: declare this day, Lord, speak to me. You know, help 271 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 3: me be a mom today. Help me in my job. 272 00:13:11,090 --> 00:13:13,470 Speaker 3: Lead me towards somebody who needs to hear your word 273 00:13:13,510 --> 00:13:17,350 Speaker 3: today or hear a prayer from you. It's just always 274 00:13:17,410 --> 00:13:20,870 Speaker 3: having checkpoints with the Lord. It doesn't mean it needs 275 00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:22,590 Speaker 3: to look like the way that I do it or 276 00:13:22,630 --> 00:13:26,090 Speaker 3: Donna does it. It's you and your relationship with Jesus. 277 00:13:26,130 --> 00:13:29,969 Speaker 3: But it's having those touch points with God every single day. 278 00:13:29,990 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 3: Because there's going to be certain seasons. 279 00:13:31,860 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: Maybe you're a new mom. 280 00:13:33,330 --> 00:13:34,890 Speaker 3: Or maybe you've got a new job, or you're in 281 00:13:35,070 --> 00:13:37,230 Speaker 3: the middle of a crazy season of your life, and 282 00:13:37,250 --> 00:13:40,670 Speaker 3: you're struggling to have that hour of solitude with Jesus, 283 00:13:40,690 --> 00:13:43,390 Speaker 3: where you have your coffee and the Bible, and you're journaling, 284 00:13:43,429 --> 00:13:44,770 Speaker 3: and you're just sitting in silence. 285 00:13:44,850 --> 00:13:46,890 Speaker 2: I miss those days before I became a mom. 286 00:13:47,230 --> 00:13:51,050 Speaker 3: My version of abiding looks different now, where now it's okay, 287 00:13:51,070 --> 00:13:53,810 Speaker 3: there's chaos, but I have worship music playing in the background. 288 00:13:53,850 --> 00:13:55,989 Speaker 3: I have a moment where I pray before bed, I 289 00:13:56,030 --> 00:13:57,849 Speaker 3: read the Bible before bed, or in the car, I 290 00:13:57,910 --> 00:14:00,270 Speaker 3: have a moment and just acknowledge him. On a walk, 291 00:14:00,370 --> 00:14:03,070 Speaker 3: I go in silence, no podcast, no music, Jesus. 292 00:14:03,370 --> 00:14:03,910 Speaker 1: Speak to me. 293 00:14:03,990 --> 00:14:05,670 Speaker 2: What do you want me to know? I think that 294 00:14:05,770 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 2: is abiding. 295 00:14:06,980 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 3: It's not this perfect picture aesthetic thing that you might 296 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,140 Speaker 3: see on Instagram. 297 00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 2: Of the Bible and the journal and the coffee. 298 00:14:13,820 --> 00:14:16,460 Speaker 3: And that could be amazing for a certain season or 299 00:14:16,500 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 3: when you can get it. But what about if you 300 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 3: don't get it? That's doing the dishes in the shower 301 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 3: while you're driving. just constantly checking in with Jesus. Jesus, 302 00:14:25,630 --> 00:14:28,020 Speaker 3: does this honor you? Does this make me look like you? 303 00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 3: Does this help me bear fruit? And then still knowing 304 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,060 Speaker 3: that abiding in Jesus is getting away and having those 305 00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 3: moments of solitude and still reading the word of God 306 00:14:37,860 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 3: when you can. 307 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 2: Maybe it's listening to the word of God. 308 00:14:40,340 --> 00:14:42,940 Speaker 3: But I think it's just having constant checkpoints with Jesus, 309 00:14:43,020 --> 00:14:46,410 Speaker 3: not out of obligation, but out of adoration because you 310 00:14:46,530 --> 00:14:48,790 Speaker 3: love him And you want to spend time with them, 311 00:14:48,830 --> 00:14:50,739 Speaker 3: not because you're just like, I have to just do 312 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 3: this because, you know, it's the right biblical Christian thing 313 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:54,780 Speaker 3: to do. Do it because like, God, I want to 314 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:56,460 Speaker 3: know you more and I want to honor you more. 315 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:58,700 Speaker 1: Love that. When I think of abiding, one of my 316 00:14:58,860 --> 00:15:02,910 Speaker 1: favorite words that describe it is connected, like just staying 317 00:15:02,950 --> 00:15:07,730 Speaker 1: connected to God. And oftentimes I think in the American church, 318 00:15:07,890 --> 00:15:11,460 Speaker 1: we have segmented our relationship with God. It's like, okay, 319 00:15:11,660 --> 00:15:14,100 Speaker 1: our relationship with God is on Sundays or when I 320 00:15:14,140 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: go to women's Bible study or, you know, when I 321 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: go to a worship night or something like that. But 322 00:15:19,140 --> 00:15:21,570 Speaker 1: that's not what it is. It's to your point. It's 323 00:15:21,610 --> 00:15:25,510 Speaker 1: just living in rhythm with Christ all day long. So 324 00:15:25,950 --> 00:15:26,690 Speaker 1: I just love that. 325 00:15:27,150 --> 00:15:28,989 Speaker 3: Well, also, if I can add something, if you think 326 00:15:29,050 --> 00:15:32,590 Speaker 3: about in the Bible, it's not like they were serving 327 00:15:32,690 --> 00:15:35,290 Speaker 3: on church on the Sunday and doing a Bible study 328 00:15:35,410 --> 00:15:37,990 Speaker 3: every single week. No, they were getting thrown in prison 329 00:15:38,050 --> 00:15:41,210 Speaker 3: and Paul only had the Holy Spirit with him in prison. 330 00:15:41,250 --> 00:15:43,430 Speaker 3: And so what does it look like to just have 331 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,820 Speaker 3: that relationship with Jesus when all those things are great additions? 332 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,650 Speaker 3: But what if they're stripped away? Like, is Jesus enough? 333 00:15:49,750 --> 00:15:52,670 Speaker 3: Is your relationship with the Lord, is that going to 334 00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:55,930 Speaker 3: sustain you? Or do you need all these external additions 335 00:15:56,010 --> 00:15:58,050 Speaker 3: to really get that intimacy with Jesus? 336 00:15:58,620 --> 00:16:02,580 Speaker 1: Well, I love that. That's a great insight. That's so good. Okay, 337 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: one of the things that you write about in the book, 338 00:16:05,340 --> 00:16:08,230 Speaker 1: and I thought this was really interesting, is that you 339 00:16:08,250 --> 00:16:12,030 Speaker 1: highlight different traits of Jesus. So things like the Good 340 00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: Shepherd or the one who weeps with us. Which day, 341 00:16:17,580 --> 00:16:19,980 Speaker 1: because this is a 40-day devotional, so which day was 342 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: the hardest for you to write? I think it's hard. 343 00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 3: Okay, so for example, I was just looking over this 344 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,570 Speaker 3: as well, but when you look at like even day 345 00:16:28,570 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 3: 27 or even day... 13, which is the divided truth, 346 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 3: or day 12, the hated truth teller. These ones are 347 00:16:36,340 --> 00:16:40,060 Speaker 3: harder to write because I think oftentimes we only see 348 00:16:40,140 --> 00:16:44,730 Speaker 3: Jesus as this graceful, peaceful, he just wants to comfort me. 349 00:16:44,780 --> 00:16:47,910 Speaker 3: He's a good shepherd. But Jesus was a truth teller. 350 00:16:48,430 --> 00:16:52,410 Speaker 3: He caused some division. People did not like his words. 351 00:16:52,450 --> 00:16:55,090 Speaker 3: People would constantly say, oh, these are a hard word 352 00:16:55,130 --> 00:16:55,510 Speaker 3: to hear. 353 00:16:55,530 --> 00:16:57,630 Speaker 2: And then they left. They were like, I don't want 354 00:16:57,650 --> 00:16:58,150 Speaker 2: to hear this. 355 00:16:58,190 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 3: I don't want to have to be convicted of my sin, 356 00:17:00,780 --> 00:17:03,020 Speaker 3: or you're causing too much chaos here. 357 00:17:03,140 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 2: I'm not a fan of that. 358 00:17:04,310 --> 00:17:08,050 Speaker 3: We see in the gospel of John that Jesus divides 359 00:17:08,130 --> 00:17:10,490 Speaker 3: family and says, anyone who wants to follow me, you 360 00:17:10,530 --> 00:17:13,290 Speaker 3: have to turn away your mother and your father. You 361 00:17:13,310 --> 00:17:15,970 Speaker 3: will have to leave some things behind. Some people are like, 362 00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:17,939 Speaker 3: before I follow you, Jesus, wait, I want to go 363 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 3: say goodbye to my mom and dad. And he's like, no, 364 00:17:20,100 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 3: pick up your cross and follow me and leave everything behind. 365 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 3: Those are the traits that sometimes people are like a 366 00:17:26,340 --> 00:17:30,170 Speaker 3: little uncomfortable with because he is a truth teller, but 367 00:17:30,210 --> 00:17:32,470 Speaker 3: the truth is what sets us free. He is the way, 368 00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:35,490 Speaker 3: the truth, and the life. And so we want the 369 00:17:35,550 --> 00:17:37,850 Speaker 3: fluffy and the good things, the things that make us 370 00:17:37,970 --> 00:17:40,890 Speaker 3: feel really good, but we don't want the hard things. 371 00:17:40,910 --> 00:17:42,830 Speaker 3: We don't want the truth. We don't want things that 372 00:17:42,890 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 3: convict us and challenge us and call us to leave 373 00:17:45,630 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 3: our sin where Jesus tells the woman caught in adultery, 374 00:17:48,140 --> 00:17:50,659 Speaker 3: go and sin no more. Those are the things that 375 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 3: we're like, oh, that's challenging. So It's challenging to write 376 00:17:54,340 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 3: because you know it's truthful and it's hard to hear, 377 00:17:57,540 --> 00:18:01,220 Speaker 3: but it's necessary because otherwise we're missing a huge aspect 378 00:18:01,420 --> 00:18:04,780 Speaker 3: of a characteristic of Jesus. He's grace and truth, and 379 00:18:04,820 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 3: he does them both beautifully and perfectly well. 380 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 1: Janine, you don't know this, but my husband's a pastor. 381 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,460 Speaker 1: We had dinner with another pastor and his wife and 382 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: they're retired and they're just precious, precious, precious. And he 383 00:18:18,460 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: was telling us, I asked him, tell me about your journey, 384 00:18:21,580 --> 00:18:23,980 Speaker 1: like which churches did you pastor and all this kind 385 00:18:24,020 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: of stuff. And he was telling us that he pastored 386 00:18:27,510 --> 00:18:31,950 Speaker 1: a church in his early years with John Wimber was 387 00:18:32,210 --> 00:18:34,770 Speaker 1: one of the pastors. Now, John Wimber started the vineyard. 388 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:39,060 Speaker 1: And he was saying that he actually knew John Wimber 389 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: before he became a Christian, so that John Wimber went 390 00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:45,420 Speaker 1: to this Bible study, a neighborhood Bible study, and he 391 00:18:45,570 --> 00:18:48,750 Speaker 1: would go through an entire pack of cigarettes during the 392 00:18:48,770 --> 00:18:50,750 Speaker 1: Bible study. He'd step out on the porch and like, 393 00:18:51,090 --> 00:18:53,649 Speaker 1: you know, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke, smoke. And then several 394 00:18:53,710 --> 00:18:55,810 Speaker 1: months after he'd been to this Bible study, he tells 395 00:18:55,869 --> 00:18:58,169 Speaker 1: his neighbor who was leading the Bible study, okay, I'm 396 00:18:58,210 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: ready to become a Christian. And the neighbor said to him, no, 397 00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: you're not. And he was like, what? Yeah, I am. 398 00:19:03,660 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: He's like, no, you're not ready yet. You got to 399 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,420 Speaker 1: be ready to understand what this really means. And so 400 00:19:10,660 --> 00:19:14,770 Speaker 1: John Wimber was like, oh, okay. And about three weeks later, 401 00:19:14,830 --> 00:19:17,130 Speaker 1: he came back and he said, okay, I really thought 402 00:19:17,170 --> 00:19:20,770 Speaker 1: about it. I thought about the cost and I'm ready. 403 00:19:21,130 --> 00:19:25,090 Speaker 1: I'd never heard that story. And I thought, wow, how 404 00:19:25,210 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: amazing that just some neighbor that had a Bible study, 405 00:19:28,850 --> 00:19:30,750 Speaker 1: led this guy to Christ, but it was like, I'm 406 00:19:30,890 --> 00:19:32,750 Speaker 1: going to really lead you to Christ. I don't want 407 00:19:32,770 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: this to be a fluffy conversion where you fall away 408 00:19:36,940 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 1: in two months because it got hard. I want you 409 00:19:39,220 --> 00:19:42,260 Speaker 1: to count the cost. And as a result, like all 410 00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:46,030 Speaker 1: the vineyard churches were started on this guy. I just 411 00:19:46,050 --> 00:19:48,310 Speaker 1: thought that was amazing. Isn't that a cool story? 412 00:19:48,670 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 2: That's a really cool story. Yeah, I love how God 413 00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 2: can use anybody too, you know? 414 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:56,020 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. But I love that you just talked about 415 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,820 Speaker 1: maybe the harder, but there was also some really sweet 416 00:19:59,020 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: components of Jesus. Grief comes up a lot in your book. 417 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,129 Speaker 1: So what did you learn about Jesus and how he 418 00:20:06,190 --> 00:20:08,530 Speaker 1: relates to us in just our hard stuff? 419 00:20:09,060 --> 00:20:12,489 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think what's so beautiful is I think we 420 00:20:12,530 --> 00:20:14,830 Speaker 3: read in Hebrews that it says, for we do not 421 00:20:14,869 --> 00:20:18,350 Speaker 3: have a high priest who cannot empathize with us because Jesus, 422 00:20:18,450 --> 00:20:21,100 Speaker 3: as we see in this, in this gospel, that he 423 00:20:21,180 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 3: encounters everything. He encounters being praised. He encounters being hated. 424 00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 3: being spit on. You know, one day they love him, 425 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,830 Speaker 3: the next day they don't. He encounters people who have 426 00:20:30,930 --> 00:20:34,110 Speaker 3: passed away, people who are chasing after him just because 427 00:20:34,130 --> 00:20:35,869 Speaker 3: they want a touch of him and they want him 428 00:20:35,910 --> 00:20:38,170 Speaker 3: to heal them. And then he has people who are like, 429 00:20:38,210 --> 00:20:39,270 Speaker 3: this is too hard to hear. 430 00:20:39,530 --> 00:20:39,970 Speaker 1: I'm out. 431 00:20:40,210 --> 00:20:43,190 Speaker 3: I think we can see the heart of Jesus because 432 00:20:43,619 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 3: he encounters everything and maybe it's not the exact same 433 00:20:47,220 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 3: context as us. He does face almost everything that we 434 00:20:50,980 --> 00:20:54,929 Speaker 3: face today as well. But specifically with grief, we see 435 00:20:55,250 --> 00:20:58,090 Speaker 3: someone who brings their son to Jesus and they're like, 436 00:20:58,109 --> 00:20:58,950 Speaker 3: you know, he's sick. 437 00:20:59,010 --> 00:21:00,540 Speaker 2: And why is he sick? And is it because of 438 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:01,430 Speaker 2: the sins of the child? 439 00:21:01,490 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 3: And he's like, no, it's just so simply you can 440 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,239 Speaker 3: see that I'm a God who performs miracles just so 441 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 3: you can witness that. But people, you know, they're experiencing 442 00:21:10,260 --> 00:21:12,940 Speaker 3: grief and they're like, Jesus, also Mary and Martha, Jesus, 443 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,620 Speaker 3: if you have been here sooner, our brother Lazarus would 444 00:21:15,660 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 3: not have died. And Jesus weeps with them. He sits 445 00:21:18,940 --> 00:21:21,619 Speaker 3: with them. He cries with them. He comforts them. He 446 00:21:21,660 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 3: mourns with. 447 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,719 Speaker 2: Them, even though he knows he's going to raise him 448 00:21:25,780 --> 00:21:28,420 Speaker 2: from the dead. He already knows the answer. He knows 449 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 2: the result. 450 00:21:29,580 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 3: And so I think it's a comforting thing for us 451 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,979 Speaker 3: to hold on to when we're in grief of Jesus. 452 00:21:35,090 --> 00:21:39,070 Speaker 3: You already know the answer. You already know. what's gonna come, 453 00:21:39,290 --> 00:21:42,109 Speaker 3: why this happened. It may not necessarily be always the 454 00:21:42,170 --> 00:21:45,850 Speaker 3: result of sin or result of something that I did, 455 00:21:45,930 --> 00:21:48,530 Speaker 3: but just simply because A, you wanna perform a miracle 456 00:21:48,550 --> 00:21:50,850 Speaker 3: or B, you want us to cling to you tighter 457 00:21:50,950 --> 00:21:53,710 Speaker 3: or C, just want us to feel that you sit 458 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,260 Speaker 3: with us in our pain and in our weeping. And 459 00:21:56,700 --> 00:21:59,380 Speaker 3: we don't know why God doesn't answer everything. We don't 460 00:21:59,420 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 3: know why God doesn't always perform a miracle, but we 461 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 3: know that he sits with us and he weeps with us. 462 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,540 Speaker 3: And I think that was a characteristic I wanted to 463 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 3: paint in this book is that we don't always know 464 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,699 Speaker 3: the answers, but we know he knows the answers and 465 00:22:11,740 --> 00:22:14,220 Speaker 3: he does sit with us regardless of what we feel. 466 00:22:14,660 --> 00:22:17,580 Speaker 1: Yes. And you also talk about a story where you 467 00:22:17,700 --> 00:22:21,530 Speaker 1: prayed for one of your friends and then didn't get 468 00:22:21,570 --> 00:22:23,909 Speaker 1: the answer that you prayed for. Talk to us a 469 00:22:23,950 --> 00:22:24,690 Speaker 1: little bit about that. 470 00:22:25,140 --> 00:22:27,030 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I just had a friend who had 471 00:22:27,090 --> 00:22:29,930 Speaker 3: reached out to me and she was going through a 472 00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:32,629 Speaker 3: potential loss of her baby. And she had asked me, 473 00:22:32,750 --> 00:22:35,389 Speaker 3: please pray for me. Please intercede for me. And I 474 00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:37,810 Speaker 3: prayed and prayed and prayed and believed like, no, God, 475 00:22:37,869 --> 00:22:39,889 Speaker 3: you are the giver of life. Like you're going to 476 00:22:39,930 --> 00:22:42,700 Speaker 3: make a miracle. And she believed it too. Like, no, God, 477 00:22:42,740 --> 00:22:44,460 Speaker 3: you're going to heal this baby. You're not going to 478 00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 3: make this happen. And unfortunately, the baby still passed. And 479 00:22:48,540 --> 00:22:51,140 Speaker 3: that's so hard to reconcile when you're just like, God, 480 00:22:51,220 --> 00:22:54,470 Speaker 3: what are you doing? And why wouldn't you answer those prayers? 481 00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:58,429 Speaker 3: But again, it's just similar to the story that I 482 00:22:58,510 --> 00:23:00,450 Speaker 3: see here again, where they're like, was it the sins 483 00:23:00,490 --> 00:23:02,050 Speaker 3: of the man? Was it the sins of the father? 484 00:23:02,090 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 3: Was it the sins of the child? Because I think 485 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,140 Speaker 3: in our rational minds, we can see the people going 486 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 3: to Jesus and being like, what's the answer? 487 00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:09,619 Speaker 1: Why did this happen? 488 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,300 Speaker 2: Give me an answer right now. I want to know. 489 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,429 Speaker 3: And Jesus is just simply saying it's because my sovereignty 490 00:23:14,450 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 3: is Or it's because I want to demonstrate something to 491 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 3: you while this is happening. And it's really hard to reconcile. 492 00:23:21,180 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 3: So if someone is listening to this and they're like, 493 00:23:23,380 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 3: so you're just saying, you know, your God did this 494 00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:27,219 Speaker 3: because he just wants to show you how good he is. 495 00:23:27,570 --> 00:23:30,570 Speaker 3: Yes and no, because yes, God is good regardless of 496 00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:31,530 Speaker 3: our circumstances. 497 00:23:31,570 --> 00:23:33,950 Speaker 2: But it also still displays that we. 498 00:23:33,790 --> 00:23:35,710 Speaker 3: Live in a broken world. We live in a world 499 00:23:35,770 --> 00:23:38,129 Speaker 3: where there's going to be things we can't understand. 500 00:23:38,190 --> 00:23:38,950 Speaker 1: We don't know. 501 00:23:39,010 --> 00:23:41,130 Speaker 2: We don't know always the answer. We don't know why 502 00:23:41,180 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 2: it happened. 503 00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:44,050 Speaker 3: But we know that God has a plan and God 504 00:23:44,190 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 3: still performs miracles and for us to not lose hope. 505 00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 3: And so it taught me still that even if you 506 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,500 Speaker 3: don't get the answer, you don't get the thing that 507 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,860 Speaker 3: you prayed for, will you still abide? Like, will you 508 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,780 Speaker 3: still cling to Jesus? Will you still worship him even 509 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,610 Speaker 3: in the low moments or even in the moments that 510 00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:04,530 Speaker 3: aren't as pretty? Kind of like I said here, like 511 00:24:04,550 --> 00:24:08,300 Speaker 3: there's some things that are hard to accept in the gospel, 512 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 3: but will we still follow Jesus even if it costs 513 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,630 Speaker 3: us something? And so I hope that people see that 514 00:24:13,710 --> 00:24:16,310 Speaker 3: throughout this book that we don't always understand the plan, 515 00:24:16,390 --> 00:24:18,810 Speaker 3: but he does and he's sovereign and he still will 516 00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 3: use it for his glory somehow in some shape or form. 517 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,100 Speaker 1: As you were just talking about that and your sweet 518 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: friend and her loss, I had a guest on, Joe Mayer, 519 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,250 Speaker 1: several months ago, and he lost his three-month-old to SIDS. 520 00:24:32,650 --> 00:24:36,770 Speaker 1: And after we finished recording, he told me something that 521 00:24:36,790 --> 00:24:40,690 Speaker 1: I don't think I will ever forget. He said, when 522 00:24:40,710 --> 00:24:43,750 Speaker 1: I was going through that, He said, it felt like 523 00:24:43,850 --> 00:24:47,170 Speaker 1: there was a river, like I was in this rushing 524 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: river of just waves coming over me of just heartache 525 00:24:51,540 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: and grief and questions and why. And he said, so 526 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: imagine just like, I just feel like I was being 527 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: taken down by this river, but there was like a rock, 528 00:24:59,300 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: like one of those big flat, big rocks that you 529 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,470 Speaker 1: see some. And he said, I was willing to try 530 00:25:03,570 --> 00:25:06,310 Speaker 1: anything to make the pain go away. And he said, 531 00:25:06,670 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 1: but then I felt like there was this rock. And 532 00:25:10,100 --> 00:25:13,580 Speaker 1: I just metaphorically just took my body and just like 533 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,740 Speaker 1: laid it on the rock. The waters would just rush 534 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: over me, but I was like, I am just gonna 535 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: lay on the rock. And of course the rock is Christ, right? 536 00:25:22,140 --> 00:25:24,619 Speaker 1: While the waters of grief and pain go over me. 537 00:25:24,869 --> 00:25:26,940 Speaker 1: And he said, and I just committed, I'm not letting 538 00:25:26,980 --> 00:25:30,270 Speaker 1: go of this rock. Holding onto the rock, was staying 539 00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:33,450 Speaker 1: connected to Jesus. I'm going to keep abiding. So it's 540 00:25:33,540 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: just kind of a beautiful image of what you're talking about. 541 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: As you were writing this book, and you just even 542 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,460 Speaker 1: came up with the concept of doing this 40-day devotional, 543 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,700 Speaker 1: what did you hope that a reader would get from 544 00:25:45,740 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: reading their 40-day devotional? 545 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,619 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I feel like I've read a lot of books. 546 00:25:49,700 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 3: I've read a lot of devotionals, and I tried to 547 00:25:51,859 --> 00:25:54,939 Speaker 3: find a way to make it obviously A, personal to me, 548 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,550 Speaker 3: but B, applicable. Throughout the whole journal, like I said, 549 00:25:58,609 --> 00:26:00,830 Speaker 3: you will learn a new characteristic about Jesus. And I 550 00:26:00,910 --> 00:26:03,490 Speaker 3: wanted to really emphasize that because I didn't want the 551 00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 3: book to just be like, hey, here's another devotional. 552 00:26:06,980 --> 00:26:09,780 Speaker 2: This is about me. I wanted them to leave knowing a. 553 00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:14,820 Speaker 3: New characteristic about Jesus because when you understand who Jesus is, 554 00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 3: it changes everything. 555 00:26:16,140 --> 00:26:16,930 Speaker 2: If you just. 556 00:26:16,850 --> 00:26:19,449 Speaker 3: Know a lot about Jesus, but you don't know Jesus 557 00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:23,730 Speaker 3: in his heart, We can have so many misconceptions about 558 00:26:23,790 --> 00:26:26,070 Speaker 3: the gospel, about why Jesus does what he does. 559 00:26:26,109 --> 00:26:27,630 Speaker 2: We can always hear. 560 00:26:27,390 --> 00:26:29,820 Speaker 3: Commandments and laws and burdens, and I have to do 561 00:26:29,930 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 3: this for you and obligation and rules. But if you 562 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,060 Speaker 3: understand his heart for you, it will make it easier 563 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,580 Speaker 3: to follow him and love him because you're like, wow, 564 00:26:38,660 --> 00:26:39,420 Speaker 3: you are. 565 00:26:39,340 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: The good shepherd. 566 00:26:40,180 --> 00:26:42,050 Speaker 2: You do care about me. You weep with me. 567 00:26:42,350 --> 00:26:44,129 Speaker 3: And so that was one thing that was really important 568 00:26:44,150 --> 00:26:46,470 Speaker 3: to me. But I also wanted to have moments where 569 00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:49,210 Speaker 3: instead of people just reading, they had a second to pause. 570 00:26:49,270 --> 00:26:51,850 Speaker 3: And so I will have throughout the whole journal, you 571 00:26:51,869 --> 00:26:55,210 Speaker 3: will have journal questions at the end, these are reflection questions. 572 00:26:55,270 --> 00:26:58,340 Speaker 3: And then throughout every single chapter, there's a pause and 573 00:26:58,380 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 3: reflect question. So it will have you stop for a 574 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,300 Speaker 3: second and kind of think about your own life, your 575 00:27:03,340 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 3: own circumstance, maybe misconceptions you have, think about other people, 576 00:27:07,180 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 3: maybe things that you didn't understand about the chapter before 577 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,650 Speaker 3: that now you do. And so I wanted to make 578 00:27:11,690 --> 00:27:14,830 Speaker 3: it applicable. And I haven't really seen that too often. 579 00:27:15,430 --> 00:27:16,889 Speaker 3: And then I wanted to make sure that it was 580 00:27:17,050 --> 00:27:19,850 Speaker 3: still going through the Gospel of John in a way 581 00:27:19,930 --> 00:27:22,770 Speaker 3: that helped them understand the context of the time and 582 00:27:22,810 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 3: what was kind of going on, but also still make 583 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,140 Speaker 3: it applicable to them in their current life. And so 584 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:29,899 Speaker 3: I kind of try to tie in, you know, the 585 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,859 Speaker 3: old Bible times, but also with their current situations and 586 00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 3: make it fun. And it's not a super hard read, 587 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,020 Speaker 3: like you're not going to have to spend hours and 588 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,460 Speaker 3: hours and hours. I wanted it to be kind of 589 00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:41,330 Speaker 3: a quick, easy thing they could do in the morning. 590 00:27:41,550 --> 00:27:43,370 Speaker 3: And I just had fun writing this. I also think 591 00:27:43,410 --> 00:27:46,770 Speaker 3: it's still very rich and applicable. And we'll meet a 592 00:27:46,810 --> 00:27:49,070 Speaker 3: person wherever they are at in their life, whether they're 593 00:27:49,170 --> 00:27:51,190 Speaker 3: new in their faith and then maybe they've been a 594 00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:52,709 Speaker 3: Christian their whole life and they just need a new 595 00:27:52,730 --> 00:27:53,350 Speaker 3: touch of God. 596 00:27:53,890 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 2: I think it'll meet you right where you were at. 597 00:27:55,530 --> 00:27:56,850 Speaker 2: And that was my hope and intention. 598 00:27:57,590 --> 00:28:00,730 Speaker 1: I love that. Okay, so let me ask you this 599 00:28:00,790 --> 00:28:03,669 Speaker 1: as we're winding up. As you were reading through the 600 00:28:03,690 --> 00:28:08,020 Speaker 1: Gospel of John and writing this book, what about just 601 00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:11,380 Speaker 1: learning about Jesus made you fall in love with him 602 00:28:11,619 --> 00:28:13,590 Speaker 1: for you personally? Yeah. 603 00:28:13,609 --> 00:28:16,090 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it's so hard. It's like, what's not 604 00:28:16,130 --> 00:28:16,550 Speaker 2: to love? 605 00:28:17,390 --> 00:28:18,950 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. What's not to love? 606 00:28:19,210 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 3: I mean, I think when I even look back at 607 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,460 Speaker 3: my beginning times with the Lord, where I really, really 608 00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:26,860 Speaker 3: dove in with him in that pandemic era, and even 609 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 3: to now, I feel like I've just always seen his guiding, 610 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,820 Speaker 3: protecting hand, even when I didn't necessarily like heal it. 611 00:28:35,270 --> 00:28:38,050 Speaker 3: But I found that the more that I followed his 612 00:28:38,130 --> 00:28:41,030 Speaker 3: ways and applied his word to my life, the more 613 00:28:41,130 --> 00:28:44,340 Speaker 3: my life became blessed and full and rich. And I 614 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,660 Speaker 3: have this saying on my podcast, God's ways are the 615 00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 3: best ways. And that is what I have found to 616 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,100 Speaker 3: be true, where I was like, anytime I tried to 617 00:28:53,140 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 3: do my own way or I tried to make it 618 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 3: happen in my own strength or I was striving, again, 619 00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,739 Speaker 3: I just felt like I was performing. 620 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:00,540 Speaker 1: I was exhausted. 621 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:01,300 Speaker 2: I was burnt out. 622 00:29:01,790 --> 00:29:05,550 Speaker 3: But anytime I felt like, okay, Jesus, what do you 623 00:29:05,610 --> 00:29:07,470 Speaker 3: want me to do? What is the biblical way to 624 00:29:07,490 --> 00:29:09,130 Speaker 3: go about this? How do I abide in you? I 625 00:29:09,450 --> 00:29:13,310 Speaker 3: just felt that peace, like the joy of surrender. And 626 00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:16,910 Speaker 3: it's peace that surpasses all understanding because when I surrendered 627 00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 3: and I went to God or Jesus for whatever circumstances 628 00:29:20,060 --> 00:29:22,060 Speaker 3: I had, I just felt like I could just put 629 00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 3: my hands up and be like. 630 00:29:23,260 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 2: Jesus, you've got it. Jesus, you know, nope, you've got it. 631 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 2: And it just all striving just goes away. And that 632 00:29:29,460 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 2: joy of surrender just kicks in where I'm like, Jesus 633 00:29:32,660 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 2: has got it. 634 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,590 Speaker 3: Like anytime someone's like, I'm freaking, I'm stressing, or my 635 00:29:35,630 --> 00:29:37,310 Speaker 3: husband and I are panicking about this and that, I'm. 636 00:29:37,250 --> 00:29:43,260 Speaker 2: Like, Jesus knows. Jesus got it. It just removes all pressure, stress, striving. 637 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 2: I'm like, Jesus knows. 638 00:29:44,820 --> 00:29:47,660 Speaker 3: And that characteristic of just knowing he's sovereign and he 639 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 3: cares and he's my shepherd, he's leading me, it just 640 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,220 Speaker 3: takes care of any anxiety and control that I have. 641 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,420 Speaker 1: Okay, that was a word. That was a word for 642 00:29:57,620 --> 00:30:01,020 Speaker 1: all of us right there. Okay, so tell us where 643 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:02,959 Speaker 1: we can get a copy of your book and then 644 00:30:03,020 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: also just how we can connect with you. 645 00:30:04,980 --> 00:30:05,850 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would love that. 646 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,030 Speaker 3: So you can get this pretty much anywhere books are sold, 647 00:30:08,050 --> 00:30:10,770 Speaker 3: but you can definitely do Amazon. You can pre-order it now, 648 00:30:10,830 --> 00:30:13,469 Speaker 3: but if you are watching this after October 27th, it's 649 00:30:13,510 --> 00:30:16,050 Speaker 3: available for purchase. And yeah, I do a lot of 650 00:30:16,070 --> 00:30:19,190 Speaker 3: these topics on my podcast, Happy and Healthy. And my 651 00:30:19,230 --> 00:30:22,290 Speaker 3: Instagram is Janine Amapola. You can find me pretty much 652 00:30:22,370 --> 00:30:25,230 Speaker 3: on YouTube, TikTok and Instagram, all with that same username. 653 00:30:25,310 --> 00:30:27,170 Speaker 3: And I do a lot of faith encouraging posts on 654 00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:29,350 Speaker 3: there as well. And so check that out, you guys. 655 00:30:29,370 --> 00:30:31,730 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. And thank you, Donna, for having 656 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,900 Speaker 3: me on. This has been such a joy. Oh, it's 657 00:30:33,940 --> 00:30:37,220 Speaker 3: been so much fun having you. I love your heart, Janine. 658 00:30:37,340 --> 00:30:40,050 Speaker 1: I love it. So we'll put all that information in 659 00:30:40,090 --> 00:30:43,110 Speaker 1: the show notes. And what a joy this has been 660 00:30:43,310 --> 00:30:45,150 Speaker 1: to talk to you and just fall in love with 661 00:30:45,170 --> 00:30:47,970 Speaker 1: Jesus and want to abide with Him even more and 662 00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: more and more. So thank you. Amen. Thank you, Donna. 663 00:30:51,660 --> 00:30:55,780 Speaker 1: Wasn't it a great episode? I hope you enjoyed that conversation. 664 00:30:56,020 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: Really abiding in Christ, just living connected to Him is 665 00:30:59,540 --> 00:31:03,740 Speaker 1: what the Christian life is all about. Don't miss that. Really, 666 00:31:04,100 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: Jesus is just so good. You don't want to miss 667 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:12,420 Speaker 1: a life living, connected, abiding with Jesus. And hey, just 668 00:31:12,460 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: as a reminder, I'd love to connect with you on 669 00:31:14,820 --> 00:31:18,100 Speaker 1: social media at Donna A. Jones on Instagram, or as 670 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:19,970 Speaker 1: I mentioned at the top of the show, jump over 671 00:31:20,010 --> 00:31:23,970 Speaker 1: to my website and subscribe to my free newsletter. And 672 00:31:24,190 --> 00:31:26,830 Speaker 1: as always, my friend, I can't wait to see you 673 00:31:26,890 --> 00:31:29,620 Speaker 1: next time for That's Just What I Needed.