WEBVTT - Let’s Talk About Animals | Ultimate Issues Hour 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:06.980 Life Audio. On today's episode of Timeless Wisdom. 0:00:08.100 --> 0:00:12.760 The great issue today is animals. Animals, that's a great 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.120 issue and it really is. How do we regard animals? 0:00:16.579 --> 0:00:20.119 Two minutes before I sat down to listen to your show, 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.820 I was actually, I leaned over to smell my cat 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.279 because I thought that I'd smelled something and she turned 0:00:26.340 --> 0:00:28.750 over and attacked my, and she just attacked my face 0:00:28.790 --> 0:00:31.010 and I was just It got me thinking about the 0:00:31.030 --> 0:00:35.870 very issue that you're thinking of. How accountable should the 0:00:35.950 --> 0:00:39.430 animals be for their actions? I mean, you know better 0:00:39.450 --> 0:00:41.570 than I do in the Old Testament, if an animal 0:00:41.590 --> 0:00:44.349 were to kick a human and kill it, the animal 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:46.979 must be put to death. And they were also included 0:00:47.020 --> 0:00:48.989 in the flood of Noah. 0:00:49.170 --> 0:00:55.020 Right, but not because they're accountable. You're right about describing 0:00:55.060 --> 0:01:00.580 what happened, but that's not the reason. The animal... that 0:01:00.860 --> 0:01:03.139 killed a human, it's not so much that it's not 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:07.980 morally accountable, it's that the biblical view which I share 0:01:08.110 --> 0:01:11.350 is that you can't take a human life and stay alive. 0:01:11.910 --> 0:01:13.149 It doesn't matter what you are. 0:01:13.690 --> 0:01:18.580 That's coming up on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Welcome 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.920 to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Hear thousands of hours 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.280 of Dennis' lectures, courses, and classic radio programs. And to 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:29.980 purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to DennisPrager.com. 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:31.600 To be. 0:01:34.910 --> 0:01:40.170 Or not to be, that is the question. Where was God? 0:01:40.730 --> 0:01:41.850 Isn't God supposed to be good? 0:01:41.870 --> 0:01:44.789 Isn't he supposed to love us? Does God want us 0:01:44.810 --> 0:01:45.170 to suffer? 0:01:45.910 --> 0:01:47.970 Ten years, you're not finished yet? 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:50.580 Morning! 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:52.720 Why did you do this to me? 0:01:53.740 --> 0:01:54.240 Who are you? 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:58.840 Bruce. I'm God. 0:01:59.300 --> 0:02:00.020 Bingo! 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:04.230 Yahtzee! Is that your final answer? Our survey says. 0:02:04.670 --> 0:02:05.310 God! 0:02:05.370 --> 0:02:06.710 Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing! 0:02:07.210 --> 0:02:09.290 Well, it was nice to meet you, God. Thank you 0:02:09.310 --> 0:02:16.480 for the Grand Canyon, and good luck with the apocalypse. Alrighty, everybody. 0:02:16.500 --> 0:02:19.860 Welcome to the Dennis Prager Show, the ultimate issues hour. 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:22.700 Every week at this time, I talk to you about 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:30.590 some great issue of life. And the great issue is, today, animals. Animals. 0:02:30.950 --> 0:02:33.470 That's a great issue, and it really is. How do 0:02:33.490 --> 0:02:38.029 we regard animals? Do animals have rights? Do we have 0:02:38.110 --> 0:02:42.030 obligations to animals? Are animals our equal? Are we superior 0:02:42.070 --> 0:02:46.120 to animals? Can we eat them? I mean, it is 0:02:46.139 --> 0:02:49.839 an enormous issue, and it is larger today than perhaps 0:02:50.300 --> 0:02:54.940 ever before. And I will tell you my take at 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:58.370 the very outset, so you will know where I'm coming from, again, 0:02:58.410 --> 0:03:01.750 because of my belief in clarity over agreement. So here 0:03:02.010 --> 0:03:05.750 it goes, and it's very simple. I don't think simplistic, 0:03:05.830 --> 0:03:11.280 but certainly simple. In fact, it actually is... the opposite 0:03:11.300 --> 0:03:14.100 of simplistic since it's quite on the middle of the road. 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:19.140 It neither regards animals as our equal nor regards animals 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:24.540 as an it, as just some toy that you can 0:03:24.620 --> 0:03:28.040 do what you want with. And that is that we 0:03:28.139 --> 0:03:36.150 have moral obligations to treat animals humanely and not to induce, 0:03:36.230 --> 0:03:40.640 and here is the key, not to induce... gratuitous suffering. 0:03:42.540 --> 0:03:46.620 That's the key. That's our moral obligation, is not to 0:03:46.700 --> 0:03:53.590 cause unnecessary suffering, but at the same time, we are 0:03:53.690 --> 0:03:59.250 not morally obligated to desist from killing them if it 0:03:59.530 --> 0:04:04.750 is of importance to us, like eating, and especially eating, 0:04:04.970 --> 0:04:08.930 and frankly, Well, it's not just eating. We kill mosquitoes 0:04:08.990 --> 0:04:12.070 so that they don't bite us. We kill bugs so 0:04:12.090 --> 0:04:15.500 that they don't annoy our picnic, and so on. So 0:04:15.900 --> 0:04:19.779 I believe that that is okay. However, the torture of 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:24.099 an animal is the most obvious example of a morally 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:30.000 evil act, the torture of an animal. which is certainly 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:32.560 known to happen, and it happens in a number of ways. 0:04:32.620 --> 0:04:36.050 The most obvious is, for example, if kids simply use 0:04:36.190 --> 0:04:43.130 animals to cause pain to them, putting a firecracker in 0:04:43.170 --> 0:04:46.890 the anal cavity of a cat and watching it blow up, 0:04:46.950 --> 0:04:50.250 and some kids will find that cute. And by the way, 0:04:50.290 --> 0:04:52.110 the kids who find that cute are going to end 0:04:52.190 --> 0:04:55.419 up probably finding it cute to do bad things to people. 0:04:56.600 --> 0:05:00.560 But remember, and this is part of the clarity that 0:05:00.700 --> 0:05:05.760 needs to be given here, while cruelty to animals usually 0:05:05.820 --> 0:05:08.860 leads to cruelty to people, kindness to animals does not 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.260 lead to kindness to people. It has no impact in 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:17.600 either direction. It's never pointed out, but it's very important 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:22.120 to point out. Cruelty to animals, yes, that leads to 0:05:22.180 --> 0:05:25.419 cruelty to people, but kindness to animals doesn't lead to 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:29.020 kindness to people. The other way in which we have 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:33.190 gratuitous cruelty or torture of animals is at play, watching animals, 0:05:33.250 --> 0:05:38.150 watching cockfights, roosters scratching each other's eyes out, as I 0:05:38.230 --> 0:05:42.670 saw in Bali in Indonesia many years ago, where even 0:05:42.710 --> 0:05:48.130 they will put their razor blades in the claws of 0:05:48.170 --> 0:05:51.270 the animal to watch it scratch the other's eyes out 0:05:51.330 --> 0:05:57.030 and then scrape it, scratch it to death. or just 0:05:57.070 --> 0:06:01.150 to use its claws to do so. That, to me, 0:06:01.330 --> 0:06:05.100 is immoral, and I get my values, as you know, 0:06:05.339 --> 0:06:09.700 from what we call Judeo-Christian values, most specifically the first 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:13.620 five books of the Bible, but not exclusively, and that 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.500 is where I get this idea. After all, people don't 0:06:16.580 --> 0:06:20.110 think about this. Animal treatment made it to the Ten Commandments. 0:06:21.370 --> 0:06:25.310 We are instructed to have our animals rest one day 0:06:25.370 --> 0:06:28.730 a week, That is a moral obligation to an animal. 0:06:29.390 --> 0:06:34.710 It's a very profound one. By the way, that same Bible, 0:06:35.370 --> 0:06:40.229 this case, again, the Old Testament, and specifically in the Torah, 0:06:40.390 --> 0:06:44.779 which Jews call the first five books of Moses, there 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:48.620 is a law that you cannot plow with a donkey 0:06:48.940 --> 0:06:53.020 and an ox on the same plow because they're of 0:06:53.060 --> 0:06:56.100 different sizes and And they will be yoked in such 0:06:56.140 --> 0:06:59.500 a way that they would hurt each other. That you 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.840 can't muzzle an ox while it eats in the fields. 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:06.050 It has to be free to eat while it is working. 0:07:07.470 --> 0:07:11.670 So there is a very real biblical concern with how 0:07:11.690 --> 0:07:14.410 we treat animals, but we are allowed to kill them 0:07:14.490 --> 0:07:18.660 to eat them. And they are clearly not the same 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:24.150 as human values. But in our secular age, they have 0:07:24.190 --> 0:07:28.700 become like humans. You have the most obvious one that 0:07:28.780 --> 0:07:32.239 I have brought to your attention on many occasions. People 0:07:32.260 --> 0:07:36.020 for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, a very morally confused organization, 0:07:36.780 --> 0:07:40.220 in my view, because it does equate humans with animals. 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:43.880 And they had a program a couple of years ago 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.810 called Holocaust on Your Plate where they equated. And I 0:07:46.930 --> 0:07:52.000 emphasize the word equated. They equated animals. the barbecuing of 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.920 chickens in America with the cremating of the Jews in 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.450 the Nazi death camps. There was no moral distinction to 0:07:59.490 --> 0:08:02.330 people for the ethical treatment of animals. The fact that 0:08:02.350 --> 0:08:11.330 that organization still exists after that atrocious obscenity is an 0:08:11.570 --> 0:08:15.560 ode to the moral confusion of the age of stupidity 0:08:15.570 --> 0:08:18.390 in which we live, inaugurated largely in the 1960s and 70s. 0:08:20.590 --> 0:08:25.160 But I'll give you another example. A woman was widowed, 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:28.600 a woman that I met a couple of a month 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:33.000 or so ago was at my home and she had 0:08:33.020 --> 0:08:35.810 been married to her husband for 50 years and they 0:08:35.830 --> 0:08:39.230 I was at 50 or 35 years anyway, a long time, 0:08:39.230 --> 0:08:43.210 35 or 50 years. I don't recall. And and the 0:08:43.250 --> 0:08:45.929 only reason, by the way, even. mention it is because 0:08:46.030 --> 0:08:48.550 I want to be truthful on everything, even a number 0:08:48.630 --> 0:08:50.890 of a marriage that you don't even know about. But 0:08:51.070 --> 0:08:53.100 I just want to tell you what I know to 0:08:53.130 --> 0:08:55.800 be true. And it was either 35 or 50 years. 0:08:56.900 --> 0:09:01.620 And she was telling me that there were people who 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:06.420 had said to her, women, who had said to her, oh, God, 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:09.319 I know how you must feel. That's how I would 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:15.640 feel if my dog died. I can only imagine how 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:19.130 bad your loss is because that's how I would feel 0:09:20.309 --> 0:09:24.550 in the case of the death of my dog. So 0:09:24.590 --> 0:09:27.770 that she lost her husband of 35 or 50 years, 0:09:28.390 --> 0:09:32.270 and these people were identifying with her loss in that 0:09:32.830 --> 0:09:36.150 they could understand what a loss it is by imagining 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:40.420 how painful it would be if they lost their dog. 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.660 And this is not uncommon. This is something that I 0:09:44.700 --> 0:09:48.000 have been talking about since I have begun public lecturing 0:09:49.179 --> 0:09:53.670 in my 20s, where people are utterly confused about the 0:09:53.710 --> 0:09:56.429 different worth of humans and animals. So again, to make 0:09:56.490 --> 0:10:00.819 it simple and not simplistic, the human being... human life 0:10:00.940 --> 0:10:05.420 is sacred. Animal life is not sacred. Animals may not be. 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:10.760 Animals may not be tortured. Animals may not be harshly 0:10:10.780 --> 0:10:18.680 or gratuitously treated. But that doesn't make them our equivalent. 0:10:19.540 --> 0:10:23.040 And that's the point that needs to be made, which 0:10:23.179 --> 0:10:26.000 is not clear at all to a generation being raised 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.250 in a secular emotional world. And the secular world is 0:10:29.290 --> 0:10:32.910 very emotional, as the example that I gave you just 0:10:32.990 --> 0:10:37.070 now of how people reacted to this woman who had 0:10:37.130 --> 0:10:41.090 lost her husband. That, in a nutshell, is the view 0:10:41.150 --> 0:10:45.340 that I have, the view that Western civilization has had. 0:10:46.220 --> 0:10:51.460 You shouldn't torture them. But you, in fact, are allowed 0:10:51.580 --> 0:10:54.780 to eat them. And you are, in fact, allowed to 0:10:54.960 --> 0:11:03.960 use them. 1-8 Prager 776. 1-8 P-R-A-G-E-R 776. And we 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:08.320 should not romanticize animals. We should not even speak about 0:11:08.380 --> 0:11:13.929 good animals and evil animals. A rattlesnake that kills a 0:11:13.990 --> 0:11:19.400 child is not evil. Evil implies a consciousness of good 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:23.120 and bad, but a rattlesnake doesn't think, oh, I'm killing 0:11:23.179 --> 0:11:27.099 a baby. Anymore, I'm sorry to say, I don't think 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.620 one could speak about dogs doing goodness, even though they 0:11:30.710 --> 0:11:33.690 do good things. I love dogs, and they do good things, 0:11:34.410 --> 0:11:40.609 but they're programmed. Humans are not nearly as programmed. We 0:11:40.670 --> 0:11:44.110 have freedom of moral choice that animals tend not to have, 0:11:44.170 --> 0:11:48.070 not tend not to have, do not have. So animals 0:11:48.150 --> 0:11:51.030 is the ultimate issue on this issue or in this 0:11:51.170 --> 0:11:57.900 edition of the Ultimate Issues Show. Again, and I'll summarize 0:11:57.940 --> 0:12:00.059 when we come back. Then I'll take your calls. You 0:12:00.100 --> 0:12:05.219 are listening to the Dennis Prager Show, 1-8, Prager 776. 0:12:05.220 --> 0:12:08.660 This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this. 0:12:14.059 --> 0:12:17.560 Now, back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom. 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.900 You're listening to the Dennis Prager Show, and I welcome 0:12:21.940 --> 0:12:25.939 you back. This is the Ultimate Issues Hour. And on 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.179 the Ultimate Issues Hour, I talk about some great issue 0:12:28.230 --> 0:12:32.910 of life every week at this time. And the case 0:12:32.990 --> 0:12:36.010 this time, or the subject this time, is in fact animals. 0:12:36.790 --> 0:12:39.890 And what should our view of animals be? Mine is 0:12:40.050 --> 0:12:45.490 that we have to treat them decently. We cannot cause 0:12:46.050 --> 0:12:50.750 gratuitous suffering deliberately, but we are allowed to use them, 0:12:51.470 --> 0:12:55.600 whether it is plowing the fields or it is riding 0:12:55.630 --> 0:12:59.439 a horse or it is eating them. We are allowed to, 0:13:00.100 --> 0:13:02.560 but we have to always be careful about how we 0:13:02.620 --> 0:13:04.640 treat them. We even have to give them, according to 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.020 the Ten Commandments, a day of the week to rest. 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.120 That's a pretty big deal. Very few societies have even 0:13:10.179 --> 0:13:17.220 taken that seriously. including perhaps some religious societies. 1-8-PRAGER-776 is 0:13:17.260 --> 0:13:22.099 the number. Human life is infinitely holy or sacred, I 0:13:22.140 --> 0:13:27.550 should say. That is not true about animal life. That's been, anyway, 0:13:27.590 --> 0:13:32.050 what we call the Judeo-Christian value system with regard to animals. 0:13:32.110 --> 0:13:34.849 You may have a different one. Today we live in 0:13:34.890 --> 0:13:39.230 a secular age, and therefore emotions rather than standards have 0:13:39.610 --> 0:13:43.800 taken over. Certainly not the standards of the ages, because 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.080 after all, what are the ages but just a bunch 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.780 of old fools? We are so brilliant. We have a 0:13:49.860 --> 0:13:54.240 new idea, and we equate humans and animals. All righty, 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:58.930 let's go to Gregory in Burbank, California. Hello, Gregory. Dennis Prager. 0:13:59.590 --> 0:13:59.970 Hi, Dennis. 0:14:00.330 --> 0:14:00.650 Hi. 0:14:01.990 --> 0:14:04.189 My question to you is not in an attacking way. 0:14:04.250 --> 0:14:08.130 I'm just curious what your position on the morality of 0:14:08.309 --> 0:14:10.050 animal sacrifice in the Torah would be. 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.280 In fact, ironically, I'm now teaching that very book of Leviticus. 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:20.360 Jews and non-Jews are taking my class at the American 0:14:20.420 --> 0:14:22.980 Jewish University, or it used to be University of Judaism 0:14:23.020 --> 0:14:26.060 in L.A., and folks are welcome to join again. I 0:14:26.100 --> 0:14:29.420 start again in January. That's very interesting that you should 0:14:29.460 --> 0:14:31.700 have even mentioned that, because I've given it a lot 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.000 of thought in here, Gregory, and tell me if this 0:14:34.060 --> 0:14:38.479 persuades you at all. Number one, the vast majority of 0:14:38.620 --> 0:14:42.170 animals that were sacrificed were eaten. What it really was 0:14:42.250 --> 0:14:46.270 was a public slaughtering. And in fact, to this day, 0:14:46.430 --> 0:14:48.650 I wish that people did have to see that the 0:14:48.770 --> 0:14:51.930 animals that they ate were killed. Then they would have 0:14:52.030 --> 0:14:56.690 a far more respectful attitude toward meat than they do now. 0:14:57.690 --> 0:15:00.430 Now it's just packaged and it might as well be 0:15:00.490 --> 0:15:03.670 a muffin. But it's an animal that we're eating, and 0:15:03.730 --> 0:15:05.750 I think it's important that we know that when we 0:15:05.810 --> 0:15:11.330 eat meat. Number two. It was done in a ritualized 0:15:11.380 --> 0:15:17.650 manner that was essentially painless, because the mode of doing 0:15:17.710 --> 0:15:20.810 it was made very clear, and it was to be painless, 0:15:20.970 --> 0:15:23.670 and its purpose was to get people to be better humans. 0:15:23.860 --> 0:15:25.380 And if it worked, it's worth it to me. 0:15:27.460 --> 0:15:29.600 And I would agree with you. I'm a Christian, so 0:15:29.620 --> 0:15:31.400 I just kind of probably have a little bit different 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:34.320 take on it than you. But what about, like, for instance, 0:15:34.460 --> 0:15:38.510 the burning of pigeons and such? would that be like 0:15:38.550 --> 0:15:41.410 there's not necessarily a beneficial to a human so much 0:15:41.450 --> 0:15:43.670 as an appeasement towards God in that regard? Would you 0:15:43.690 --> 0:15:44.550 say that that would be. 0:15:44.590 --> 0:15:48.460 Well, no. God is never appeased, and the proof that 0:15:48.500 --> 0:15:51.479 God is never appeased by animal sacrifice is that those 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.600 who could not afford an animal brought grain. 0:15:55.180 --> 0:15:56.200 Sure. 0:15:56.300 --> 0:15:59.200 So God is not appeased by the burning of an animal. 0:15:59.760 --> 0:15:59.940 Why. 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:00.960 Go on. Sorry. 0:16:02.180 --> 0:16:04.619 I was just curious, like when Noah comes out of 0:16:04.660 --> 0:16:08.230 the flood and he burns the pigeon as a sweet-smelling 0:16:08.250 --> 0:16:12.190 aroma to the Lord, what would you take that as? 0:16:12.650 --> 0:16:16.930 As exactly what it was in Noah's eyes. In the 0:16:17.070 --> 0:16:20.270 ancient world, it was believed that the gods smelled things. 0:16:21.330 --> 0:16:27.390 But the phrase was kept, but the literalness was never. 0:16:27.490 --> 0:16:30.790 God doesn't go, ah, what a great aroma my day 0:16:30.820 --> 0:16:31.240 has made. 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:37.460 Okay, so then as a matter of precedence for now, 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.780 would it be morally permissible to burn a pigeon as 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:42.140 a sweet-smelling aroma to God? 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:48.840 If the animal were killed in as painless and swift 0:16:48.900 --> 0:16:52.460 a manner as possible, and one sincerely was trying to 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:57.350 emulate the laws of the Bible in expiating sin and 0:16:57.410 --> 0:17:00.970 becoming a better human, and in fact it worked, I 0:17:01.050 --> 0:17:03.150 cannot say to you that I think that that is 0:17:03.250 --> 0:17:07.240 any less noble than just eating the pigeon. But in fact, 0:17:07.580 --> 0:17:09.920 you can't do it because you have to have a 0:17:09.980 --> 0:17:12.640 restoration of the temple to do that. So you would 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.939 have no religious basis on which to do it. 0:17:15.869 --> 0:17:18.369 So, but if the temple were rebuilt and then people 0:17:18.390 --> 0:17:21.369 were wanting to reinstitute sacrifice, that would be permissible in 0:17:21.390 --> 0:17:21.710 your mind? 0:17:21.869 --> 0:17:24.090 It would be permissible, but I can't say to you 0:17:24.130 --> 0:17:26.820 in any honesty that I'm looking forward to what's happening. 0:17:28.390 --> 0:17:31.690 That may sound sacrilegious to some, but I can't say 0:17:31.730 --> 0:17:38.030 that I can't wait to re-sacrifice animals. Many great religious 0:17:38.109 --> 0:17:42.200 thinkers within Judaism had already said that its time had passed, 0:17:42.260 --> 0:17:45.800 like Maimonides. All right, thank you, though. Very good series 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:50.440 of questions. Let's go to DJ in Alexandria, Virginia. Hello, DJ, 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:51.139 Dennis Prager. 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.939 Hi, I just have one question. I want to know 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:59.369 what your position on bullfighting is, and I'll just take 0:17:59.390 --> 0:18:00.010 your answer. 0:17:59.830 --> 0:18:02.109 Off the air. All right. Thank you for asking. I 0:18:02.190 --> 0:18:07.930 attended one bullfight in my life in Madrid, Spain, and 0:18:10.540 --> 0:18:13.300 I did not enjoy myself. I found it fascinating. I 0:18:13.500 --> 0:18:18.510 am totally open to different cultures having their different sports, 0:18:18.550 --> 0:18:25.080 their different events. But that is a case of killing 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:29.810 an animal gratuitously for sport. That's all it is. It 0:18:29.869 --> 0:18:33.150 is a sport. I wouldn't mind the bullfight if the 0:18:33.190 --> 0:18:38.570 bull were not killed at the end. You know, if 0:18:38.630 --> 0:18:42.409 the bullfighter simply had to survive X number of minutes 0:18:43.580 --> 0:18:48.399 and he was considered victorious, that would be fine by me. 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.419 But I saw it and I I can't say I 0:18:51.460 --> 0:18:53.480 had a great feeling, and I try to be open 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:57.150 to different cultures on cultural matters. I am not open 0:18:57.190 --> 0:19:02.590 to different cultures on moral matters. And I have no 0:19:02.670 --> 0:19:05.390 doubt that a lot of kind people just got used 0:19:05.570 --> 0:19:09.229 to bullfighting. I don't think that it made everybody who 0:19:09.270 --> 0:19:13.450 watched it a worse human being, but I did not 0:19:13.570 --> 0:19:18.439 feel uplifted by it. Or even more importantly, I did 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:21.969 not feel neutral toward it when I saw it. And 0:19:21.990 --> 0:19:25.010 that's the reason I went, by the way, because I 0:19:25.030 --> 0:19:27.260 didn't want to judge it until I actually saw it. 0:19:28.850 --> 0:19:35.710 All righty, two or some more calls here. And Bellevue, Nebraska, 0:19:35.910 --> 0:19:36.570 is that correct? 0:19:37.090 --> 0:19:37.750 Yes, that's correct. 0:19:37.990 --> 0:19:41.400 Dan, hi, Dan. Dennis Prager. Are you in the, where 0:19:41.420 --> 0:19:42.119 is that, near Omaha? 0:19:42.140 --> 0:19:42.240 Omaha. 0:19:42.850 --> 0:19:45.800 It is near Omaha, and I'm actually driving right next 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:47.540 to that mall that was attacked. 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:48.470 Oh, wow. 0:19:49.820 --> 0:19:52.400 It's right here to my right. I'm sitting at a stoplight, actually. 0:19:53.700 --> 0:19:54.080 Wow. 0:19:55.820 --> 0:19:59.659 But I wonder if I could, instead of making my 0:19:59.700 --> 0:20:01.740 original comment, make a comment on a couple of things 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:03.580 that your college had said. 0:20:03.619 --> 0:20:03.980 All right. 0:20:04.300 --> 0:20:07.489 Well, hold on in any event, and then talk to– 0:20:07.700 --> 0:20:11.030 I'll get back to you, but– Bounce it off, Eva, 0:20:11.050 --> 0:20:14.040 because I'm taking you because of the original one. 1-8 0:20:14.300 --> 0:20:19.540 Prager 776, Ultimate Issues Hour, and the ultimate issue is animals. 0:20:19.900 --> 0:20:22.869 How should we regard them? You're listening to the Dennis 0:20:22.930 --> 0:20:25.870 Prager Show, 1-8 Prager 776. 0:20:25.869 --> 0:20:29.230 This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this. 0:20:34.700 --> 0:20:38.149 Now, back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom. 0:20:38.910 --> 0:20:44.010 Dennis Prager here, and hello, my friends. This is the 0:20:44.070 --> 0:20:46.970 Ultimate Issues Hour. And by the way, you can get 0:20:47.070 --> 0:20:53.159 the best of Ultimate Issues 2007 by calling 800-225-8584 or 0:20:54.260 --> 0:20:57.419 going to DennisPrager.com. It should make a wonderful gift to 0:20:57.460 --> 0:21:05.060 somebody for any of the holidays this particular season. And 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:09.320 we go back to Nebraska and Dan. Okay, Dan, the 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:13.590 subject on this Ultimate Issues Hour is animals. What should 0:21:13.730 --> 0:21:17.530 our view of animals and their worth and our treatment 0:21:17.590 --> 0:21:19.630 of them be? Okay, yes. 0:21:21.430 --> 0:21:21.650 Dennis. 0:21:22.190 --> 0:21:22.630 Yes, sir. 0:21:23.890 --> 0:21:25.890 Well, I can barely remember what I was going to say, 0:21:25.910 --> 0:21:27.810 so I'll just go back to my original question. 0:21:28.150 --> 0:21:29.490 Yeah, it was about your cat. 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:30.700 Yes, yes. 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:34.850 Actually, yeah, two minutes before... I sat down to listen 0:21:34.890 --> 0:21:38.990 to your show. I leaned over to smell my cat 0:21:39.010 --> 0:21:41.430 because I thought that I'd smelled something, and she turned 0:21:41.510 --> 0:21:46.050 over and attacked my face. It got me thinking about 0:21:46.090 --> 0:21:50.850 the very issue that you're thinking of. How accountable should 0:21:50.890 --> 0:21:53.270 the animals be for their actions? I mean, you know 0:21:54.390 --> 0:21:56.340 better than I do in the Old Testament, if an 0:21:56.450 --> 0:21:59.219 animal were to kick a human and kill it, the 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:00.440 animal must be put to death. 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:01.560 And they were. 0:22:01.500 --> 0:22:02.680 Also included in the flood. 0:22:04.340 --> 0:22:10.159 Right, but not because they're accountable. You're right about describing 0:22:10.220 --> 0:22:15.770 what happened, but that's not the reason. The animal that 0:22:16.030 --> 0:22:18.310 killed a human, it's not so much that it's not 0:22:18.490 --> 0:22:23.149 morally accountable. It's that the biblical view, which I share, 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:26.540 is that you can't take a human life and stay alive. 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:31.439 It doesn't matter what you are. I'll never forget, I 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:35.680 actually visited a farm once where somebody showed me, I 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:37.780 don't remember what animal, could it be an ostrich? I 0:22:37.780 --> 0:22:39.490 don't know if an ostrich can kill a human, but 0:22:39.530 --> 0:22:42.030 maybe it can. Oh, yes, it can. Okay, then fine, 0:22:42.070 --> 0:22:43.830 it was an ostrich. And somebody said, oh, you see 0:22:43.869 --> 0:22:48.150 that ostrich there? That killed that guy there. That killed 0:22:48.190 --> 0:22:53.500 his father. And I thought, well, then why is it 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:57.540 still living? Isn't it an insult to the father's life? 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:01.840 that the ostrich that kills him is still walking around, 0:23:01.900 --> 0:23:06.379 not because the ostrich deserves to die, in that it's 0:23:06.500 --> 0:23:09.790 morally culpable. Of course, the ostrich doesn't know good from evil. 0:23:10.850 --> 0:23:15.609 But there is something cheapening of a person's homicide by 0:23:15.690 --> 0:23:20.210 keeping that which killed it alive. Anyway, that's the reason, 0:23:20.230 --> 0:23:23.570 not because the animal, oh, that's a bad ox, as 0:23:23.650 --> 0:23:27.430 opposed to over there, there's a saintly ox. Yeah. That 0:23:27.550 --> 0:23:30.689 sort of, that doesn't exist. And the animals were killed 0:23:30.990 --> 0:23:34.610 in the flood story because if there were no humans, 0:23:34.850 --> 0:23:37.929 animals have no real reason for living. I know this 0:23:37.990 --> 0:23:40.800 drives people crazy to hear who believe that nature is 0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:43.500 important on its own without humans. I am not among 0:23:43.540 --> 0:23:50.399 those who believe that. Okay? Yes. So now, with regard 0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:52.640 to your cat, the issue was not accountability. 0:23:52.660 --> 0:23:52.770 Right. 0:23:53.890 --> 0:23:58.389 With regards to Dan's cat, the issue is training the cat. 0:23:59.430 --> 0:24:02.550 You can't attack your owner or attack any other humans 0:24:02.970 --> 0:24:05.800 unless you're a watch cat, and they don't have those 0:24:05.859 --> 0:24:09.540 things to the best of my knowledge. So we train dogs, 0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:13.639 and we should, but they're not morally accountable. They are 0:24:13.700 --> 0:24:18.360 behaviorally accountable. Get the difference? There is a difference, and 0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:19.160 let's go to. 0:24:20.619 --> 0:24:24.199 Let's go to some more calls. Is it Lord or 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:26.180 Lourdes in Cherry Hill, New Jersey? 0:24:27.460 --> 0:24:28.920 Lourdes. Lourdes, Dennis. 0:24:28.940 --> 0:24:31.920 All right. I got it right on one of the guesses. Lourdes, 0:24:31.980 --> 0:24:32.850 thank you for calling. 0:24:33.510 --> 0:24:36.090 Yes. Thank you, Dennis. I love your show. I'm one 0:24:36.130 --> 0:24:40.770 of those persons that have become more conservative by listening 0:24:40.830 --> 0:24:44.040 to you and your clarity, and I appreciate everything I've 0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:44.760 learned from you. 0:24:44.980 --> 0:24:45.379 Thank you. 0:24:48.080 --> 0:24:51.800 I agree with you that it would be nice to 0:24:51.900 --> 0:24:57.580 have a cow live its way or a chicken and 0:24:57.619 --> 0:25:02.300 then have to kill it and eat it. But that's 0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:07.460 not the way in this country we do things now. 0:25:07.540 --> 0:25:13.240 In order to produce cheap meat and chicken for everybody, 0:25:13.900 --> 0:25:19.830 this there is a creation of this factory farming in 0:25:19.960 --> 0:25:22.250