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Speaker 1: How do you solve a problem like Candace Owens. Well,

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Speaker 1: first we have to realize that something is deeply wrong here.

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Speaker 1: I think most people have realized that the next step

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Speaker 1: is to figure out what exactly is wrong, what's going

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Speaker 1: on with this woman? I believe I can answer this question.

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Speaker 1: On the final question, what to do, I have merely

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Speaker 1: a common sense suggestion, which I'll give you at the end.

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Speaker 1: Candace continues her undeclared war against Erica Kirk. The latest

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Speaker 1: is Candace's multi episode investigation into Erica's life. Bride of Charlie.

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Speaker 2: Erica Kirk has been named the new CEO of Turning

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Speaker 2: Point USA.

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Speaker 3: My husband's dead, Like, I'm not trying to be morbid,

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Speaker 3: but he's dead. It's weird to say. Excited describes your.

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Speaker 1: Husband's funeral as the event of the century.

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Speaker 2: Merch hats.

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Speaker 3: We have fifty thousand plus hot borders.

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Speaker 1: Nobody knows why she's out there in a glittering pantsuit

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Speaker 1: in a recreated tent that her husband tragically was murdered in,

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Speaker 1: throwing merch out.

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Speaker 2: Everyone grieves differently, so if someone's acting weird, don't read

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Speaker 2: into that. Zionists, the Prime Minister of Israel all lied.

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Speaker 4: Through their teeth about Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 1: Her operation was in Constanta, the epicenter of Romania's trafficking scandal.

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Speaker 1: We were in conversations that have with a fifteen year

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Speaker 1: old I'm gonna touch your butt eight point six million

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Speaker 1: dollars to their own shell company.

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Speaker 3: What is going on and behind? My aunt used to

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Speaker 3: tell me, never do something that you don't want on

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Speaker 3: the front page of a newspaper.

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Speaker 1: Now, this is some weird stuff here. As my wife says,

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Speaker 1: what businesses it of hers? Why doesn't Candace leave Erica alone?

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Speaker 1: I'm sure Candace would answer, because there's a chance that

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Speaker 1: Erica is part of the deep state, because maybe Erica

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Speaker 1: had something to do with the assassination of Charlie Kirk,

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Speaker 1: because maybe Turning Point at the highest levels was also involved.

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Speaker 1: And of course if that's true, If that's true, then

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Speaker 1: the assassin's cabal is now running Turning Point, the most

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Speaker 1: influential youth organization in America. I'm seeing a lot of

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Speaker 1: memes on social media to the effect that Candace is insane,

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Speaker 1: Candas is a demon, Candace is a secret leftist and

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Speaker 1: also calls for defenders of Candace notably Megan Kelly to

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Speaker 1: dissociate from her. But we not only have to explain Candace,

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Speaker 1: we also have to explain why people like Megan are

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Speaker 1: so reluctant to simply say she's gone nuts. Now, as

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Speaker 1: many of you know, I know the main players in

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Speaker 1: the story, not Erica. I don't know Erica Kirk. If

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Speaker 1: I met Erica Kirk, I honestly don't remember. As far

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Speaker 1: as I know. I saw Erica Kirk for the first

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Speaker 1: time at Charlie's memorial. I was deeply moved when Erica

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Speaker 1: said she forgave Charlie's killer. Debbie and I were in

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Speaker 1: the front, and I could see, I could feel how

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Speaker 1: difficult it was for her to say that.

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Speaker 3: Father forgive them, for they not know what they do.

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Speaker 3: That man, that young man, I forgive him.

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Speaker 1: Yet it is the purest expression of Christian forgiveness, of

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Speaker 1: Christ like agape, I was deeply moved. Now, Charlie Kirk

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Speaker 1: I've known for many years, mainly through various TPUSA events

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Speaker 1: and also by doing his podcast. Shortly after I married

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Speaker 1: Debbie in twenty sixteen, I saw Charlie at a conference

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Speaker 1: and I introduced my wife to him as Dixie, which

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Speaker 1: happens to be the name.

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Speaker 4: Of my ex wife.

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Speaker 1: Charlie laughed, I laughed more nervously. Debbie did not laugh.

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Speaker 1: I've known Candace since her early blexed days, and I've

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Speaker 1: spoken at some of her blexed events. I've always liked Candace.

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Speaker 1: There's something quite magnetic, quite effervescent about her. I get

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Speaker 1: why Megan Kelly is so taken by her. Sure, she's

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Speaker 1: an obvious megalomaniac, but guess what politics is full of.

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Speaker 1: The most congressmen and senator is a megalomaniac's most public

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Speaker 1: figures are full of themselves. Being full of yourself as

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Speaker 1: regrettably part of the job description in this field. I

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Speaker 1: also know people who are very close to Charlie and

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Speaker 1: were and are very close to Candace, and through them,

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Speaker 1: I believe I've figured out what's going on with Candace

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Speaker 1: and Charlie and Erica. It's a dark triangle of a

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Speaker 1: familiar sort, but with distinctive elements. Consider the story of

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Speaker 1: a young man who becomes huge usually successful through his

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Speaker 1: entrepreneurial genius as gift of the gab and his organizational skills.

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Speaker 1: He creates a huge organization, absolutely blowing away other conservative

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Speaker 1: youth organizations. In the process, he befriends Trump and Vance,

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Speaker 1: and he creates a massive donor network. He becomes Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 1: But Charlie Kirk is in some respects an awkward fellow.

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Speaker 1: He has lots of male buddies, but he doesn't relate

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Speaker 1: romantically to women. I know this from an elderly lady

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Speaker 1: who's one of Charlie's big supporters and was also a

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Speaker 1: longtime friend. She came on board with Charlie from the

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Speaker 1: earliest days. She tried to set Charlie up with a

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Speaker 1: number of young women from prominent families, including the Charles

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Speaker 1: Schwab family, but she says none of the women were interested.

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Speaker 1: Their common complaint quote, Charlie.

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Speaker 2: Is a nerd.

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Speaker 1: I don't have any chemistry with him. Charlie was a

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Speaker 1: successful guy who hadn't found a woman too marry. This

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Speaker 1: is not to say he didn't have women friends. He did,

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Speaker 1: but he related to them as buddies. Hey, they might

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Speaker 1: as well have been male. Charlie talk to them like

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Speaker 1: business associates in some cases and like locker room pals

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Speaker 1: in other cases. Now, Candace was in the latter category.

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Speaker 1: She was a close locker room buddy of Charlie. As

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Speaker 1: they hung out a lot, they swapped messages, they confided

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Speaker 1: in each other.

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Speaker 4: But here's the key point.

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Speaker 1: For Charlie, Candace was merely a buddy, kind of like

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Speaker 1: Tyler Boyer or Andrew Covid, these guys whom I also

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Speaker 1: know and now two of the key figures running turning point,

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Speaker 1: Charlie would no more think of making the moves on

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Speaker 1: Candace than he would think of making the moves on

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Speaker 1: Tyler or Andrew. Charlie's relationship with Candace was from Charlie's

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Speaker 1: point of view, platonic, but from Candace's point of view

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Speaker 1: not platonic, or at least not according to my sources,

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Speaker 1: Candace was definitely interested in Charlie, Candace or Charlie as

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Speaker 1: some kind of cosmically important figure.

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Speaker 2: Just like her.

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Speaker 1: Candace has made some strange references to how both she

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Speaker 1: and Charlie had extraterrestrial powers. Maybe Candace thought that two

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Speaker 1: of them were celestial beings placed on Earth to find

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Speaker 1: each other. And then horror of Horror's Charlie picks Erica Erica.

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Speaker 1: Now you have to understand not what Erica Kirk really is,

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Speaker 1: but what Erica Kirk represents from Candace's point of view.

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Speaker 1: In reality, Erica seems to be a lovely person, beautiful,

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Speaker 1: accomplished someone who came out of the world of pageants

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Speaker 1: and modeling but also established herself as an entrepreneur and

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Speaker 1: a career professional. And of course she also seems to

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Speaker 1: be a devoted mom. This is how Charlie saw Erica,

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Speaker 1: and this is how most people see her as well,

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Speaker 1: but not Candace. From Candace's viewpoint, Erica is a nobody.

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Speaker 1: What does she know about politics? This Arizona beauty queen.

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Speaker 4: She's a bimbo. She's a peasant.

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Speaker 1: She's completely removed from the brightly illuminated celestial realm inhabited

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Speaker 1: by special creatures like Candace and Charlie. Besides, how did

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Speaker 1: Erica jump out from behind the curtain and grab this guy?

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Speaker 1: Why on earth did he go for her? After all,

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Speaker 1: he and Candace had been close for so long. I

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Speaker 1: believe Candace came to the conclusion that Charlie was hers

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Speaker 1: by destiny, by divine right, and the fact that Charlie

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Speaker 1: and Erica ended up together was more than she could bear.

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Speaker 1: Candace has always been somewhat unhinged, but now she went

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Speaker 1: completely burstseric. She was inconsolable in her raige. She developed

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Speaker 1: a vendetta. Envy is a very powerful force in human nature.

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Speaker 1: I'm reminded of Othello, Shakespeare's great saga about the.

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Speaker 4: Fruits of envy.

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Speaker 1: In Othello, the envious man is Iago, and in the

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Speaker 1: play he expresses the nature of envy powerfully, but not

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Speaker 1: in line about Othello, but rather about another attractive figure, Cassio.

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Speaker 1: Yago says a Cassio, he hath a daily beauty in

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Speaker 1: his life that makes me ugly, and Iago plots his

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Speaker 1: vendetta against both Cassio and later Othello. Now, part of

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Speaker 1: Yago's dark cleverness is to recognize things that are true,

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Speaker 1: but that public opinion canotic knowledge. Yago knows, for example,

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Speaker 1: that Othello's black and that makes him strange, controversial, even

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Speaker 1: repulsive in Christian venice.

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Speaker 4: But you can't say that, not even then, not even there,

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Speaker 4: because Othello is also a war hero.

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Speaker 1: But Yago plays on Othello's blackness to carry out his

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Speaker 1: plot against him. Now Candace, like Iago knows that there

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Speaker 1: is a public mythology about Charlie and Erica that developed

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Speaker 1: after Charlie's assassination.

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Speaker 4: It's not that different from what happened to JFK.

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Speaker 1: Suddenly, after the assassination, JFK became this wonder boy, his

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Speaker 1: wife became the paragon of beauty and culture. None of

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Speaker 1: this was actually true. Camelot was a public myth. Same

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Speaker 1: with Charlie and Erica. They've been canonized into something far

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Speaker 1: more than they were. Candace sees behind that veil. Her

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Speaker 1: attack on Erica's based on the premise, let me show

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Speaker 1: you the real Erica, behind the veil of public sanctimony.

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Speaker 1: This is the key to the fascination with Candace's Bride

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Speaker 1: of Erica series. From the point of view for devotees,

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Speaker 1: Candace is exposing the real Erica. Candace, like Iago, has

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Speaker 1: a vendata, but against whom. The conventional view is that

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Speaker 1: Candace is conducting a character assassination campaign against Erica. Most

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Speaker 1: of the comments I see from Candas's critics a focus

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Speaker 1: from protecting Erica's reputation. But this, I think misses the point.

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Speaker 1: From Kandas's point of view, nothing could be more obvious

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Speaker 1: than Erica wanting Charlie. Why wouldn't she want to marry

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Speaker 1: the prince? The real mystery is why Charlie wanted Erica

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Speaker 1: and chose Erica over Candace. Why did Charlie make Erica

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Speaker 1: Charlie's angel? I think I know the answer to that.

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Speaker 1: Charlie recognize Candace's talent or dark energy, but he all

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Speaker 1: so knew he didn't want it in his home. Charlie

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Speaker 1: might have been awkward, but he was in a way wise.

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Speaker 1: He knew that Erica would be a nicer, prettier, more

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Speaker 1: stable life partner than Candace could ever be. Imagine being

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Speaker 1: married to Candace, Imagine being her husband, Imagine life in

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Speaker 1: that household. Yeah, I'd like to be a fly on

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Speaker 1: that wall. I bet I'd have enough gossip to last

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Speaker 1: a lifetime. Yet, for Candace, Charlie's decision to choose Erica

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Speaker 1: was the real betrayal. What I'm suggesting, and this is

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Speaker 1: merely my psychological take on a strange and complex subject,

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Speaker 1: is that Candace's target is not Erica, but Charlie. Candace's

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Speaker 1: vendetta is against Charlie.

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Speaker 4: Charlie's my friend.

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Speaker 1: That's what Candace says repeatedly. She implies she's doing it

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Speaker 1: all for Charlie. But that is the great deception here,

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Speaker 1: worthy of iago Charlie was her friend. But then Charlie

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Speaker 1: not only chose Erica over her, but just as significant,

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Speaker 1: he expelled Candace from his orbit in law part because

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Speaker 1: of Erica.

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Speaker 4: No one saw.

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Speaker 1: Candace at Charlie's memorial, That's because she wasn't there, she

200
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Speaker 1: wasn't invited. So that's when Candace became Maleficent, the wicked

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Speaker 1: Witch of the West, and when this vendetta got started.

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Speaker 1: Debbie and I watch a lot of true crime stories.

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Speaker 1: The standard plot is different from what we've been talking about,

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Speaker 1: but still illuminating for our purpose. Here, man and women

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Speaker 1: have a long term marriage, but over time their romantic

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Speaker 1: relationship dissolves and they're just roommates, just friends. Man takes

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Speaker 1: up with younger, attractive woman. Suddenly they are always together,

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Speaker 1: hand in hand, lovey dovey, their soulmates made for each other.

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Speaker 1: They do everything together. His old partner cannot understand and

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Speaker 1: what do those do have in common? And soon that

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Speaker 1: incomprehension turns to rage, and sometimes that rage is aimed

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Speaker 1: at the man, not the woman. That's when the criminal

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Speaker 1: plot to destroy him gets under way. It's a familiar

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Speaker 1: plot line, and I think the parallels are obvious to

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Speaker 1: our situation here, But there's a deeper point I want

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Speaker 1: you to consider. Vendettas are typically between equals. A duke

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Speaker 1: doesn't have a vendetta against a surf. Dukes don't fight

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Speaker 1: duels against serfs. The Duke of York will fight a duel,

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Speaker 1: but only against the Duke of Sussex. Candace fancies herself

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Speaker 1: an aristocrat. Hey have you noticed who she married in

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Speaker 1: the end, a British aristocrat of maybe pseudo aristocrat. In

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Speaker 1: any case, she went for European royalty, which is fairly

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Speaker 1: common in Europe these days and is also colloquially known

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Speaker 1: as euro trash. But my point here is that Candace

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Speaker 1: isn't dueling with Erica because she doesn't consider Erica to

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Speaker 1: be her equal. She's really battling with Charlie, or perhaps

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Speaker 1: today we'd have to say she's battling with Charlie's ghost,

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Speaker 1: Erica bride of Charlie.

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Speaker 4: Think about that title.

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Speaker 1: Erica is a subject, but her only identification is bride

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Speaker 1: of Charlie. Charlie is the real villain of the story,

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Speaker 1: and it's Charlie, Charlie's reputation, perhaps even Charlie's memory, that

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Speaker 1: this strange, angry, vengeful woman is bent on destroying through

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Speaker 1: her relentless crusade. And that's the way I see it.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't been following precious metals, well you might

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Speaker 1: want to start look at gold and silver. Gold last

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Speaker 1: year twenty twenty five up over five thousand dollars an ounce,

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Speaker 1: silver over one hundred dollars an ounce, So that means

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Speaker 1: gold is up sixty four percent for the year, is

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Speaker 1: silver one hundred and fifty percent. Now there's been a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a pullback since then, but that's normal.

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Speaker 1: The reason that people are doing this and the reason

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Speaker 1: central banks are buying gold they don't trust the government,

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Speaker 1: they don't trust the dollar, they don't trust the debt.

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Speaker 1: You need to find out more about this as you

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Speaker 1: figure out your own investments. I reckon command a kit

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Speaker 1: from Gold Code. It's the twenty twenty six kit on

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Speaker 1: Precious Metals, a guide to gold and silver, and there's

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Speaker 1: an easy way to get it. Just go to Dinesh

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Speaker 1: Gold dot com. That's Dinesh goold dot com. My next

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Speaker 1: conversation could be described in the following headline Zionist billionaire

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Speaker 1: who was the largest donor to Turning Point, but stop

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Speaker 1: giving because of taker. Carlson speaks out for the first time.

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Speaker 1: I'm speaking to Bob Shulman, entrepreneur, philanthropist at his home

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Speaker 1: in California, about the inside scoop of his involvement and

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Speaker 1: his break with Turning Point. Doctor Bob, let me ask

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Speaker 1: you about Turning Point. You were the largest donor, the

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Speaker 1: biggest supporter of Charlie Kirk of Turning Point, and then

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Speaker 1: you stopped.

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Speaker 4: Why did you stop?

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Speaker 2: Okay, just a little history. I think I met Charlie.

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Speaker 2: It was probably a David Horwitz Freedom Center conference called

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Speaker 2: Restoration Weekend, and David was very, very open, always generous

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Speaker 2: with introducing new talent to his audience, and I was

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Speaker 2: very impressed with Charlie, and I became a donor, probably

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Speaker 2: not his first donor. I forget the name of the fellow.

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Speaker 2: He's no longer with us, but I became the second

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Speaker 2: donor and helped the organization grow and gave him advice

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Speaker 2: whenever he asked for it. So I was a member

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Speaker 2: of Turning Points Big the team for probably ten years,

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Speaker 2: maybe twelve years, and I supported various projects within Turning Point.

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Speaker 2: I also helped Turning Point Action, which is A five

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Speaker 2: oh one C four gave them some significant funds to

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Speaker 2: help them to help President Trump get elected. But about

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Speaker 2: you know, maybe it was I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Let me ask you.

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Speaker 1: Since you're talking about support. You gave support in the

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Speaker 1: millions and millions of dollars about five million?

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Speaker 2: Would you say it's between three and five I.

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Speaker 4: Honestly over over a ten year.

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Speaker 2: Twelve year period. Yeah. Yeah, And but I became very concerned.

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Speaker 2: This was about two months before his untimely death. I

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Speaker 2: became very concerned with with his uh giving a lot

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Speaker 2: of credence to people like Tucker Carlson. And when there

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Speaker 2: were big organizational meetings like Turning Point Action, Turning Point

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Speaker 2: America or Amerafest, right up on the on the big

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Speaker 2: brochures next to Charlie was Tucker Carlson. And and of

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Speaker 2: course I've been following Tucker Carlson. I used to like

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Speaker 2: watching him when he was on Fox New. I liked

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Speaker 2: his attitude. You know, he's a little lot sarcastic. But

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Speaker 2: then for some reason something changed and he became, in

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Speaker 2: my view, a jew hater. I don't use the trum

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Speaker 2: anti semitic. And Tucker has his own show and where

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Speaker 2: he platformed known jew haters. So I talked to Charlie

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Speaker 2: about this, and I was very concerned that he was

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Speaker 2: being influenced and giving a platform. Tucker Carlson, I think,

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Speaker 2: gave a keynote address at one of the major Turning

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Speaker 2: Point events and I didn't get a good answer. And

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Speaker 2: I told Charlie that, you know, I can't finance you anymore.

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Speaker 2: I feel very good about but my past helping helping

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Speaker 2: Turning Point and helping you. You've used the money appropriately.

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Speaker 2: You really helped President Trump get elected the ground game

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Speaker 2: that he did in those borderline states. But going forward

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Speaker 2: and I don't see I I don't like the trend

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Speaker 2: of the organization going forward, so I'm going to stop

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Speaker 2: financing it now. By the way, he didn't need it anymore.

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Speaker 2: I think he was at the run rate of sixty

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Speaker 2: to eighty million dollars a year they were raising. And

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Speaker 2: it's not like I stabbed in him in the back.

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Speaker 2: We had the discussion, and it's very common for philanthropists

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Speaker 2: to give to causes they believe in, and I did

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Speaker 2: give to causes I believed in. But then the organization changed.

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Speaker 1: What do you think was going on with Charlie. Charlie

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Speaker 1: seemed to be pro Israel. He made trips to Israel.

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Speaker 1: I've seen him pose with the Israeli flag, He's been

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Speaker 1: at the wall. He seemed to be a supporter, a

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Speaker 1: sympathizer with Israel. Was it the case that, in your view,

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Speaker 1: Charlie was moving in the other direction or was he

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Speaker 1: just saying, hey, listen, talk a great body of mine

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Speaker 1: and he has his own views. I have my own views,

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Speaker 1: but on that basis of friendship, I want to give

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Speaker 1: him a platform. Was what was going on in Charlie's mind?

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Speaker 1: Because I think this is something people are grappling with,

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Speaker 1: and you got to see it up close, right.

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Speaker 2: And when he began to become a strong supporter of Israel,

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Speaker 2: and by the way, that was partly motivated by a donor,

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Speaker 2: Bernie Marcus, who was founder of Home Depot, who, as

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Speaker 2: I recall, Charlie told me, gave him a ten million

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Speaker 2: dollar grant to do to start a group, a pro

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Speaker 2: Israel group within Turning Point. And when I saw that happening,

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Speaker 2: I spoke to Charlie an event that I was attending

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Speaker 2: with him, and I said, this is a mistake, Charlie.

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Speaker 2: Even though I'm very pro Israel, of course known to

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Speaker 2: be a Zionist. I told him it was a mistake

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Speaker 2: for him to take positions outside of the main call

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Speaker 2: or of what Turning Point is all about. Turning Point

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Speaker 2: is about free enterprise, capitalism, the literal interpretation of the Constitution,

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Speaker 2: and freedom, freedom of speech. And I said, as soon

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Speaker 2: as you start being involved in other peripheral causes, although

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Speaker 2: they may be good in my view it's a good one,

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Speaker 2: you shouldn't do it. You shouldn't do it. So, even

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Speaker 2: though he was doing something that I would normally approve

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Speaker 2: of outside of Turning Point, I suggested he not do

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Speaker 2: it in the same way. When he became somewhat not

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Speaker 2: he but he was promoting people who are anti Israel,

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Speaker 2: or anti Zionists or Jew haters. I told him, you

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Speaker 2: shouldn't do it.

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Speaker 1: It seems like what you were saying to Charlie in effect,

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Speaker 1: was stick to your knitting and stick to America first, America.

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Speaker 1: Don't go outside America. Americans as soon as you start.

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Speaker 2: And I think what happened he went to college campuses.

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Speaker 2: And this was after October seventh, twenty twenty three, and

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of questions by the students, which

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Speaker 2: I don't know if they were prepared ahead of time,

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Speaker 2: but they were poking him about Israel. Why are you so,

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Speaker 2: you know, interested in Israel. It's not American, it's not

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Speaker 2: pro American. So I think that that helped change his

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Speaker 2: mind or his direction. And he never said anything you

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Speaker 2: know that that would indicate that he was a Jew hater,

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Speaker 2: an anti semi but certainly by keeping Candae Owens on

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Speaker 2: their website and you can still I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you can still find her there, but she was there,

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Speaker 2: probably not given the relationship with now, but she was

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Speaker 2: there when when I was involved and I said, I

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Speaker 2: don't you know, I thought she was out. She was

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Speaker 2: still there, you know, to find it. But certainly Tucker

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Speaker 2: Carlson was being promoted, and I think that's what happened.

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Speaker 2: It was in reaction to all the questions he was

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Speaker 2: getting by the students on college campuses.

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Speaker 1: So I think what you're saying here, and to me,

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Speaker 1: this is an unfamiliar story. When I was at the

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Speaker 1: American Enterprise Institute, we had free market economists and we

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Speaker 1: would get sometimes funding from some big business which supported

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Speaker 1: free market capitalism. But on the other hand, when it came,

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Speaker 1: for example, to a subsidy to that business, they would

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Speaker 1: want the subsidy, and then the free market economists would

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Speaker 1: revolt and say, you know, we're being bought off. And

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Speaker 1: so the head of AI of the American Enterprising Stitute

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Speaker 1: was caught between the scholars over here and the donors.

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Speaker 4: So to me, this is like this happens.

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Speaker 2: Did this happen?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 1: And I think what you're describing is here's Charlie and

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Speaker 1: he wanted did he take the money from Bernie Marcus?

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Speaker 4: Did he take the ten million?

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Speaker 2: He did?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so he's committed over here, and at the same

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Speaker 1: time the students are kind of over here. So when

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Speaker 1: Charlie said I'm being he said, I'm being pressured by

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Speaker 1: the donors.

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Speaker 2: But really what No, it wasn't pressured by I never

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Speaker 2: tried to pressure said this. This is not consistent with

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Speaker 2: the mission of Turning Point. That's what I said. You

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Speaker 2: should stick to the mission of Turning Point. And although

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Speaker 2: you may get less tweets or less people attending your conference,

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Speaker 2: this is what you should be.

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Speaker 4: Doing because this is what you set out to do.

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Speaker 2: That's that's what he set out to do, and that

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Speaker 2: was that's what I funded.

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Speaker 1: And obviously I think part of what you're saying as

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Speaker 1: well is that a donor has every right to give

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Speaker 1: money to a cause that you believe it. And if

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Speaker 1: the organization or the individual marches off in a.

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Speaker 2: Different direction, I'm giving them money.

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Speaker 1: Why on earth would you want to There's no like

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Speaker 1: entitlement to the money, right, and there's.

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Speaker 2: No intentional I didn't try to get the money back that.

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Speaker 4: I already right talk about it.

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Speaker 1: You you they were going to name a building after day.

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Speaker 4: Yes, they was the Shilman Center.

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Speaker 2: The Shillman Freedom Center.

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Speaker 4: And what did you tell them?

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Speaker 2: I told them and I had made most of the

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Speaker 2: payments that that I promised to do was in stages

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Speaker 2: based on where the building was in the purchase of

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Speaker 2: the building and everything, And I said, I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to make the last payment, but you can name the building.

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Speaker 2: The agreement was it was supposed to be named after

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Speaker 2: the Shilman. Shulman Foundation said you can name the building

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Speaker 2: anything you want except Shilman. Don't use your name, don't

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Speaker 2: use my name, don't use my name.

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Speaker 1: Right, And what was Charlie's reaction when you told him that?

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Speaker 2: They said they'd have to think about it, and and

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Speaker 2: they never got back to me, and they never distanced

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Speaker 2: themselves from Tucker in any way. And I think I

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Speaker 2: think he was influenced by by the number of followers

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Speaker 2: that that he gets with Tucker there the Tucker's a

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Speaker 2: an influencer, whereas a large audience.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately, it is something that people have grappled with, Right,

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Speaker 1: what what.

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Speaker 4: Caused Tucker to check?

432
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: Money? Money?

433
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: And you're saying it's money. The reason, I think, the

434
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: reason I've been myself flabbergasted by it is people do

435
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: change their mind. Right, Whittaker Chambers used to be a

436
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: communist and then he became an anti communist, But he

437
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: wrote a six hundred page book, Witness, explaining how he shifted.

438
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: What caused him to change is I noticed that Tucker

439
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: has never done this, He's never given any kind of

440
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: account and yet suddenly you have this sort of new

441
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: Tucker and he is saying the things that younger Tucker

442
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: the opposite of what he said.

443
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 4: But you think it's financial.

444
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 2: That's my belief, yep. And the country of Kutter has

445
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:50,719
Speaker 2: a history of making huge donations to various universities to

446
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 2: fund Middle Eastern schools. In most of those organizations have

447
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 2: become centers of racles, and these universities to the to

448
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 2: the deterrent, to the negative effect of our society. Most

449
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: of the university campuses that were that were inflamed by

450
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 2: October seventh by Israel after the a day after the war.

451
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,479
Speaker 2: Israel didn't do anything for months after the after they

452
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 2: were attacked, But the next day there are all these

453
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 2: campus protests, and those come from from the organizations within

454
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 2: the universities that are financed by Cutter. And that's well

455
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 2: documented how many billions of dollars they've spent undermining universities

456
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 2: in America.

457
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: Do you think that Tucker was or maybe is trying

458
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: to take over Turning Point.

459
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 2: I imagine that would be a goal. I don't think

460
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: he'll be able to do that. I hope he won't

461
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: be able to do that.

462
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 1: I just say this because Tucker clearly built in roads

463
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: into the Heritage Foundation. So you think of the Heritage

464
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: Foundation is one of the key think tanks. You think

465
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: of Turning Point as youth organization, and so looking at

466
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: it from Tucker's point of view, this is the way

467
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: I I'm trying to move the Republican Party in a

468
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: different direction. What better way heritage turning Point that would

469
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: be the way.

470
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 2: And it might be that the cutter has invested in

471
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: Turning Point. I wouldn't be surprised. That would be very

472
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 2: wise of them to do so. I wouldn't be surprised

473
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: if they are a large donor.

474
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: Have you come across the name of Nick Fuente's in connection.

475
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 4: To Charlie talked about him?

476
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 2: Never?

477
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: He never mentioned him, No, never mentioned him at all. Right, Yeah,

478
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: because Charlie had texted me. I did a debate with

479
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: Nick on the Iran issue. It was not about Nick's

480
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: fuhole philosophy. We're debating the Trump strike on Iran. We

481
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: had this pretty feisty exchange. I think I got the

482
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: better of it. Most people thought I got the better

483
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: of it. But Charlie, when he found out about it,

484
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: was very agitated and sent me a series of texts

485
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: basically saying, why are you platforming this guy? He's vermin,

486
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: He's horrible.

487
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 4: I only say this because.

488
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 2: He was on Tucker's show.

489
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: He was on Tucker's show and precisely some of the

490
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: same things that Nick has been saying. Tucker's been saying, right,

491
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: and so it's very interesting. I kind of wonder Charlie,

492
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: you know, the assassination. He there's no more Charlie. And

493
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: it's hard to know what Charlie would make of all

494
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: the stuff going on now with Turning Point and also

495
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: with Tucker, because Tucker's most blatant. I wouldn't say it's

496
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: not just anti Israel, it's not just anti Jew, but

497
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: now an emerging like pro Islamic side is emerging.

498
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 4: Right coming back to Tucker, and.

499
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,959
Speaker 1: You're pulling away from Turning Point, as you know, they

500
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: do a lot of good and you supported the good

501
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: stuff they were doing. Did you think that at what

502
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: Tucker was saying was what insidious enough, bad enough poison

503
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: in the minds of young people. I'm trying to get

504
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: at what is it that you said? Listen, I love

505
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: this organization, I love what they were doing. But guess

506
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: what I'm out It's probably took a lot. Because I

507
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: was at the in twenty twenty two, I was in

508
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: Phoenix at a Turning Point donor event which I spoke.

509
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: You were there.

510
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: You stood up and you said something like which really

511
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember it so's so vivid. You were like,

512
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: I am trying to give away my money. You said

513
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: I think you had put up one hundred thousand dollars.

514
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: You were asking people to match it, and you were

515
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: the number one turning Point super fan.

516
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: Yes, at a donor event. Charlie put me in that

517
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 2: position at every major event to well, to make a.

518
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 4: Make as to make the ask, to talk.

519
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: About why I'm a donor, and that I think all

520
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 2: of you who are in this room believe in the mission.

521
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 2: And now it's time to write a check, right, And

522
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: I'm good at that, you know, you know, I put

523
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: my money where my mouth is. So but you were

524
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 2: asking about why, okay, why couldn't I overlook it? It's

525
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 2: because it's you know, in the posters advertising, turning point,

526
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: a manifest or whatever. There were lots of speakers. Donald

527
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 2: Trump's son was a speaker, and various senators, but right

528
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 2: in the upper left corner for us, it was Charlie

529
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 2: and next to him was Tucker Carlson, and Tucker was

530
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 2: a keynote speaker or maybe the keynote speaker. So you know,

531
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 2: I could overlook it. You know, there are people with

532
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 2: different views and a lot of things. You know, he choose,

533
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 2: you know, if it's one out of you know, thirty

534
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 2: other people who were on this poster. But he was.

535
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: He was a key element in these presentations and that's

536
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 2: what did it for me. That's what did it for me,

537
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 2: and not only me, other donors too. I mean I

538
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 2: got I was in contact. Mainly they contacted me and

539
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: told me that they you know that they were very

540
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 2: upset and didn't understand it and didn't see it getting

541
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 2: any better. That's the problem. Didn't see it getting any better.

542
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: We know a guy in Texas who is a billionaire

543
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: close to it, and and we got wind of this

544
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: because the message from turning Point was our donors are

545
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: pulling out.

546
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 4: You need to up your donation.

547
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: So they were pitching other donors to make it up.

548
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: And so you know this at the time, we were

549
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: very much on the outside, but this was very intriguing

550
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: to hear this rumbling going on. I don't know if

551
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: you remember, but you sent me what what turned out

552
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: to be a very ill timed text. It was actually

553
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: like a day or two before Charlie was assassinated, and

554
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: you were like, I'm done, I'm out. I'm not going

555
00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: to give them another penny. And then, of course, obviously

556
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: way of knowing this two days later where Charlie is

557
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: a shot. He's killed, and then you immediately send me

558
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: a text going, oh, I feel horrible. Either you sent

559
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: me something basically saying you realize that this was something

560
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: that you had sent right before, and what do you make.

561
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 2: Of all the now? He was a wonderful person. Yes,

562
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: I have to tell you, really impressive. I mean it's

563
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: rare for me to give this kind of money to

564
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 2: any particular organization. There are a few, but in his

565
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: presentations he didn't have notes. He had such a memory

566
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 2: for the details, and he'd go through what he promised

567
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 2: last year and how they did on those promises. And

568
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: these were two or three hour presentations that he would make,

569
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: and they were exciting, you know. They were interspersed with

570
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 2: videos of what his groups were doing, whether it was

571
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 2: Turning Point Faith or Blesed or this or that, and

572
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 2: it was just it was a very impressive individual. And

573
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: I thought a good Christian, and you know, I admire

574
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 2: Christians and I support Christian organizations.

575
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: So you had no problem as a Jew giving money.

576
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: Absolutely Charlie as a Christian, or even even Turning Point Faith,

577
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: which was quite openly in a sense advocating, Charlie was

578
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: surrounded with pastors any of that.

579
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 2: I loved it because it was all pro America, you know,

580
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 2: and and and he had these different groups and it's

581
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 2: important to have all these different groups that have a different,

582
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: slightly different focus. So he had this Turning Point Faith,

583
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 2: which I loved and I think probably some of my

584
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: donations were targeted to Turning Point Faith. Yeah.

585
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: What do you make of the you know, the cheers, Charlie,

586
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: he's assassinated. The assassin is turned in by his own family.

587
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: He's connected with this kind of tran network.

588
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 2: Lately, a lot of these acts of violence by trans Yeah,

589
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: it's we shouldn't make guns illegal, we should make trends illegal.

590
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and so this is what baffles me, right,

591
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 1: because you have here these violent networks, and by the way,

592
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: some of them do military training. There there's there's an

593
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: Antifa aside to what these trans activists do. And yet

594
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: just as we're closing in on a public like expose

595
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: of the whole thing, and of course the trial of

596
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: this guy, the shooter, we now have these conspiracy theories

597
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: brewing on the right that well, it was Mosad, it's

598
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: the Egyptian planes, it is it is you know, it's

599
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 1: macron you haven't heard about. Oh no, there's an element

600
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: of macrons. So there's a French legion military connection. I mean,

601
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: nine percent of this is coming from Canvas, who is

602
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: essentially made a maybe not a career, but certainly a

603
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 1: portfolio of Conierson. Well, I call it the Candice Intelligence Agency.

604
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 4: There's new CIA.

605
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: She's like, I, me and my followers are going to

606
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: investigate and bust open and reveal who the true killers are.

607
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: And she's saying, I'm not saying it isn't this guy.

608
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: I'm simply saying that it's a much wider Yeah, I'm

609
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: going to expose the people. Be What do you make

610
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: of all this? It doesn't seem like you follow it

611
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: all that closely.

612
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 2: Thank goodness, right, don't you know? I have other things

613
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: to do, more productive things to do with my day.

614
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 2: But I know people who follow it closely. And the

615
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 2: only thing I can make of it is that you know,

616
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 2: the technology has given everybody a microphone. Everybody has a microphone,

617
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 2: and the more radical you are, the more people are

618
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 2: going to pay attention to you, even to argue with you.

619
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 2: And that's such a mistake. If you don't believe in

620
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: what somebody's saying, just turn the channel. I don't send

621
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 2: another text to them or to tell your friends about

622
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 2: why he or she is wrong. Just ignore it. Ignore

623
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 2: it all. It's noise, and Candace must have something seriously.

624
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 2: And I knew Candace way back when her first job,

625
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 2: as I believe, was with the David Harwitz Freedom Center.

626
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 2: He gave her the start. He gave her the start,

627
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: and from there I think she went to Praguer for

628
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 2: a while, she was at Prager University, and from there

629
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: she went to Ben Shapiro, and Ben finally had to

630
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 2: fire her because she became I think, anti a Jew

631
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 2: hater during that period. So these are Jews who gave

632
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 2: her the start at David Horwitz, Dennis Prager, and Ben

633
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 2: Shapiro all Jews, and she was a nobody. She was

634
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 2: a nobody Earlier.

635
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: You described yourself as a Zionist. And we seem to

636
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: be in an atmosphere today where, particularly among young people,

637
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 1: there's this sense that sort of that American Jews who

638
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 1: are Zionists are.

639
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 4: Putting Israel first, or that.

640
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: Israel is controlling America, or that APAK, the American Israel

641
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: Political Action Committee, is a foreign front that needs to

642
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: register under the Foreign Agents Act. What do you make

643
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: of all of this and how do you address it?

644
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 1: This idea that sort of your interests are not America first,

645
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: there Israel first.

646
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: Well, I live in America. America gave me this opportunity

647
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 2: and it is the best, finest country in the world.

648
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 2: And at the same time, I believe that Israel has

649
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 2: a right to exist. The history and shown by some

650
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 2: of your movies a matter of fact, prove that the

651
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 2: archaeology proves that the Jews were there first. Okay, they

652
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 2: are the inherent.

653
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: The original inhabitant, the joh inhabitants of the land.

654
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 2: So and I think it's important for Jews to have

655
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 2: their own country. There are fifty two, I think maybe

656
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 2: it's more fifty two Islamic countries in the world. Don't

657
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: the Jews. Shouldn't the Jews have one? And even though

658
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 2: it's a country that's run by Jews and for Jews,

659
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 2: everyone has the same rights. It's the only place in

660
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 2: the Middle East where Muslims can practice their faith, Christians

661
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 2: can practice their faith, and Jews can are Hindus. Whoever,

662
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 2: there's let's say, a strange sect in I think it's

663
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 2: in Tel Aviv. I'll forget about that. But they have

664
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 2: the right to practice their faith the bye, whatever it is.

665
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: So it's the only country where you have freedom of religion,

666
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 2: right of all faiths, any faith, and it's a very

667
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 2: special thing. But the countries that border don't believe in that,

668
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 2: and they want to destroy Israel. So when I say

669
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 2: I'm as Zionist, I'm in favor of their being a

670
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 2: country for the Jews. For the Jews.

671
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 4: We're doing that. I can be.

672
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: I can be America first. I can be pro American

673
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: with an allegiance to America. And I don't think that

674
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: the interests of Israel conflict with it at all.

675
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 2: Matter of fact, Israel comes closest to the American ethics

676
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: of freedom and democracy and open free enterprise. It comes

677
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 2: the closest to America. So of course I wanted to exist.

678
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 2: I would like every country to be as free as

679
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: Israel is.

680
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 4: Thank you very much.

681
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: Hey, I'm now on substack. It's kind of full circle

682
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: for me. I started out as a journalist writing articles

683
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: for National Review, the American Spectator, the Washington Post, lots

684
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: of places. After my stay in the Reagan White House,

685
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 1: I pivoted to writing books, and that was way back

686
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety one. So I've been mainly known as

687
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 1: an author and of course later as a filmmaker. But

688
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 1: my first job journalist, and now I'm getting back to that.

689
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: On Substack you'll get original articles and commentary, groundbreaking investigations,

690
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: exclusive access to film clips and show clips.

691
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 4: And guess what, it's free. So check it out.

692
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 1: Go to Dinesh Desuza dot substack dot com. I'm in Israel,

693
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: in Jerusalem, in fact, in the very futuristic TBN studios

694
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: here in Jerusalem, and I wanted to interview not just

695
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: someone who is in the IDF, the Israel Defense Forces,

696
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: but a Christian who is so has served in the IDF.

697
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: And today we have one it is Ethan heading Ethan.

698
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: What's a nice Christian boy doing in the military services

699
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:09,240
Speaker 1: of a Jewish state.

700
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 5: So I was in the IDF between April twenty twenty

701
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 5: two until December twenty twenty four, So it went over

702
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 5: that period of October seventh, twenty twenty three, the largest

703
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 5: loss of life to the Jewish people since the Holocaust.

704
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 5: As a Christian going in, I never knew that I

705
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 5: would find myself in that situation. I certainly didn't expect

706
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 5: that at the age of twenty one, after having done

707
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 5: university and started my career, that I would actually want

708
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 5: a draft, But I felt obligated. Not only is a

709
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 5: Christian theologically, but also because of my family and my

710
00:42:53,400 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 5: family's values. My family come from South Africa originally were

711
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 5: exiled in nineteen eighty six because my grandfather preached against

712
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 5: apart eight and the system of government there. And the

713
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 5: only one of the few countries that still had relations

714
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 5: with South Africa at the time was Israel.

715
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 4: Let's slow down and follow this a little closely.

716
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: So your grandfather was a pastor, that's right, and he

717
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: was a pastor in the Assemblies of God. And did

718
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,439
Speaker 1: he mainly have a white church or a black church.

719
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 5: It was mixed.

720
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:29,479
Speaker 4: It was a mixed church.

721
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: But he was a critic of apartheid, and they threw

722
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 1: him out.

723
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 5: I threw him out.

724
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 4: And why Israel.

725
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 5: Israel at the time had great relations with South Africa

726
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 5: as well as Taiwan, and South Africa was under international

727
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 5: condemnation for the system of government of course, segregation that

728
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 5: only really came to close in nineteen ninety five ninety four,

729
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 5: and so they either had the option going into an

730
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 5: internment camp or leaving and going to Israel, which is

731
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 5: certainly not as as developed as it is today at

732
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 5: that time. And it's an important story for me because

733
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 5: while I still retain and fully believe in my Christian

734
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 5: values that have come down three generations, now it's it's

735
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 5: guided my life principles. And I felt it was extremely

736
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 5: important for me as a Christian to join the IDF

737
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 5: because in an actual fact, we have so much in

738
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 5: common with the Jewish people as Christians. We have the

739
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 5: similar values we base you know, half of our book,

740
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 5: The Little Testament is of course the Tanach, their main

741
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 5: source of Jewish life and belief. And so I woke

742
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 5: up one day and I felt that I needed to join,

743
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 5: and so I volunteered.

744
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: Are there Christians in the IDF or you're the only one?

745
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 5: No, there's about every year two hundred to three hundred volunteers.

746
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 5: The majority of them are Greek or Christians. That's an

747
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 5: interesting statistic. It's about seventy percent of volunteer Christian volunteers

748
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 5: are are Greek Orthroox and the rest are generally Messianic Jews,

749
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 5: so Jews that believe that Jesus is missile or in

750
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 5: my case, just regular old Protestants that are Christian Zionists.

751
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: Now I've seen these young people in the Israeli military

752
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,919
Speaker 1: and it's always a little bit startling because we think

753
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: of seasoned IDF commandos, and a lot of these young

754
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: people are nineteen, you know, and their kids really And

755
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: in your case, you were not. There's mandatory military service.

756
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 4: But you volunteered.

757
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: You chose to go into the military, and your reason

758
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: was white.

759
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 5: My reason was that there is no greater state on

760
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 5: the planet that better protects my rights in my freedoms

761
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 5: as a Christian in my community to practice my religion

762
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 5: freely than the state of Israel. There are two main

763
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 5: events that have effected and changed the way the Middle

764
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 5: East is understood to Christians in the area, and that

765
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 5: is Isis in twenty fourteen. At the turn of the century,

766
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 5: They're Christians made up around twenty percent of the Middle

767
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 5: East population. Today that number is five percent. A lot

768
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 5: of that was at the hands of Sunni Islamic jihadist

769
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 5: groups such as Al Qaeda and Diish or Isis that

770
00:46:55,120 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 5: eliminated millions of ethnic Christians such as Assyrian Christians or

771
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 5: Arameics from Iraq and Syria. Today, there's about sixteen million

772
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 5: Christians in the Middle East, eight million of which or

773
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 5: thereabouts are Coptics in Egypt. But Israel also has a

774
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 5: very sizable population. We have about one hundred and ninety thousand,

775
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 5: that is the only populated Christian population in the Middle

776
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 5: East that is actually growing, not declining, which is contrary

777
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 5: to the trend. And that is because we enjoy the

778
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:38,280
Speaker 5: rites that if we look around us are being taken

779
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 5: away by other Christians. If we see what's going on

780
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 5: in Syria north Eastsyria at the moment, with the collapse

781
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:50,919
Speaker 5: of the Autonomous Region Kurdis Region Annis, we see that

782
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 5: you actually have Islamic hardest groups, many of whom are Isis.

783
00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 5: Around ten thousand Isis militants that were in detainment camps

784
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 5: have been overrunning the semi autonomous region, which has been

785
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 5: populated by some of the oldest Christian communities since the

786
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:16,760
Speaker 5: time of Jesus. These are Christians that have participated in

787
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 5: their political life there. They have their own Christian militias.

788
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 5: And so as a Christian who finds himself in Israel,

789
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 5: I understood very quickly that if I want to defend

790
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 5: my freedoms, and my churches, which many Christians come and

791
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 5: visit yearly, I understand that I have to defend the

792
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:40,879
Speaker 5: state that protects them.

793
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: So you're saying that Israel is an island of freedom

794
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,240
Speaker 1: of religious freedom in the sea of repression.

795
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, contrary to Tackle Carlson, who says that Qatar instead

796
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 5: is that religious freedom haven. I would beg to differ

797
00:48:55,440 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 5: because here you have Christians that since October seventh are

798
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 5: actually turning towards Israel, that the IDF reports that volunteer

799
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 5: numbers have actually tripled within the Christian community here because

800
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 5: young Christians my age and below understand what's at stake.

801
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 5: On October seventh. Kamas didn't just kill Jews. They killed

802
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 5: Sunni Sunni Muslims, they killed Thai workers, and they indiscriminately

803
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,280
Speaker 5: killed Christians who they for all they cared were Jews.

804
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 5: They didn't care. And so we have understood on October

805
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 5: seventh that radical Islam doesn't discriminate. It goes after every

806
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 5: system of government that is contrary to Sharia law.

807
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 4: It's indiscriminately hostile.

808
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 5: That's correct.

809
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: And you're saying, and you can assure us that as

810
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: based on your own experience over a lifetime and family

811
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: that as a Christian, you're perfectly safe and free to

812
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: practice your faith in Israel unmolested.

813
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 5: Sunday's working day to us, that's our day of Sabbath.

814
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 5: But while I was in the army, my commanders, from

815
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 5: the lieutenant all the way up to the brigadier general

816
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 5: level understood and made sure that at four pm every

817
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 5: day on a Sunday, I was able to go to

818
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 5: church and worship freely, unmolested, without fail. Christmas, Easter, all

819
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 5: of the feasts that many perhaps do not have such

820
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 5: a prominent meaning to us. They insisted that I would

821
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 5: not have my holidays changed and that I could benefit

822
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 5: from being able to celebrate with my own community without fail.

823
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: A Christian, you're saying that the IDF is a force

824
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: for good, But.

825
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 5: There is no doubt in my mind that Israel is

826
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 5: not only a force for good for the local believers

827
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,399
Speaker 5: in Israel, but is changing the way that the Middle

828
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 5: East itself.

829
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:17,839
Speaker 2: Is.

830
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 5: We look at the Hamas Israel war. We eliminated the

831
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 5: head of Hezbela, Hassan Assala, and destroying Hesbela's command and

832
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 5: control system had a knock on effect where Hesbela was

833
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 5: no longer able to prop up the Isad regime in Syria,

834
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 5: and as a result, the Free Syrian rebel army was

835
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 5: able to destroy the regime and fundamentally push back Iranian influence.

836
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 5: And that is a direct result of Israeli intervention in

837
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 5: fighting for her people and defending them no matter what.

838
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,720
Speaker 1: It's part of what you're saying that because radical Islam

839
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 1: is such a threat, and it's such just threat across

840
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: such a wide region, the fact that the IDF is

841
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 1: almost single handedly battling these forces of radical Islam and

842
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: doing it very effectively, that Christians, not only in Israel

843
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: but in the entire region are in a certain sense

844
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: able to breathe more easily.

845
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 5: I think without a doubt that Christians within Israel are

846
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,720
Speaker 5: able to breathe more easily. I think when you start

847
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 5: talking about Syria and Iraq and Egypt, it becomes much

848
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 5: more complicated. And that's not Israel's fault. Israel does what

849
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 5: it can with what it has, but her power and

850
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 5: her influence is limited. Contrary to what many people, at

851
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 5: least in the West like to inflate, there are many

852
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:08,760
Speaker 5: different actors, both state and non state, that are vying

853
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 5: for control all over the Middle East, not just the

854
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:17,280
Speaker 5: United States, and it's important that Israel does take a stand,

855
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,800
Speaker 5: which she has traditionally done, especially in the Kurdish case.

856
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 5: Prime Minister Benjamin Eniao and Foreign Minister Gideon Tsar have

857
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:31,240
Speaker 5: been very clear from the start that a Kurdish movement

858
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 5: in north Eastyria and northwest Iraq is paramount to Israel's

859
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 5: security and pushing back Iranian and Turkish influence. So Israel

860
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 5: does try and exert and build networks of connection and

861
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:51,640
Speaker 5: to support those people with humanitarian aid with other means,

862
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 5: but at the end of the day, she can only

863
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 5: do so much. She doesn't have that type of capital

864
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 5: that other states might have.

865
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 1: What would you say to the argument that the Old

866
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 1: Testament is based upon kind of an ethic of vengeance,

867
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: an eye for an eye, the New Testament is based

868
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 1: upon an ethic of forgiveness.

869
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 4: Of love, and that.

870
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:27,320
Speaker 1: A Jewish state by definition would follow the Jewish code,

871
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 1: which would be the eye for an eye, and that

872
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:32,720
Speaker 1: this is not only Unchristian, but kind of anti Christian

873
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 1: because it's not in the spirit of the New Testament.

874
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: As a Christian, how do you think about the relationship

875
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,760
Speaker 1: of the Old Testament and the New and the seeming

876
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: shift from an ethic of vengeance to an ethic of forgiveness.

877
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 5: I'm not a theologian, so perhaps I can't quote the

878
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 5: exact scripture of it. I read my Bible and I

879
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,359
Speaker 5: go to church, and I know that Jesus also said

880
00:54:58,400 --> 00:54:59,320
Speaker 5: to feed my laps.

881
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:02,879
Speaker 4: And how do you interpret that?

882
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 5: I think that means, MITTI, you can't also sit by

883
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,319
Speaker 5: and watch the world go into flames and say, well,

884
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:15,959
Speaker 5: it's somebody else's problem. No one else is coming. And

885
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:19,359
Speaker 5: this is the understanding that as Christians in the Middle East,

886
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 5: we have come and we have paid a price for

887
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 5: for by blood. That there is, contrary to many claims,

888
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 5: really no other power in the Middle East that is

889
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 5: actively putting their sons and daughters on the line, regardless

890
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 5: of the fact that twenty percent of Israel's population is

891
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 5: Muslim Arab, that two percent of the population is Christian Israel,

892
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 5: and the Ideaf does not discriminate in who she defends.

893
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: You're saying the Jews are putting their lives on the

894
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 1: line to save Christian lives and Muslim lives.

895
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 5: Absolutely. October seventh showed that that Hamas or any Islamic

896
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 5: jihadist group that they're allied with, like al Qaeda or ISIS,

897
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 5: shows the sword to anybody that doesn't follow their ideology.

898
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:25,320
Speaker 5: Christians are in that, and I think Israel will pay

899
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 5: any price, as we saw with all of the hostages,

900
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 5: the two hundred and fifty three hostages that were taken

901
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 5: on October seventh. We will pay any price to protect

902
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 5: our people, dead or alive. And we didn't discriminate on

903
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 5: if those hostages were believers in Christ or were they atheists,

904
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 5: or were they Jews, were they ultra Orthodox Jews? There

905
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 5: was no discrimination.

906
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 1: Even you were right in the thicker things. And by

907
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,120
Speaker 1: that I mean you were in the intelligence services, but

908
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 1: in the combat aspect of it. In other words, you

909
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:09,360
Speaker 1: weren't just sitting at a desk. You were actively coordinating operations.

910
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 1: What would you say, has the IDF done as much

911
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 1: as it can, as much as it should to minimize

912
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: civilian casualties.

913
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 5: We have done what we can. And then some The

914
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 5: Palestinian Authority estimates that two hundred and fifty four thousand

915
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 5: Palestinians in Gaza have left and or been killed since

916
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 5: October seventh, So the majority of those are people that

917
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 5: voluntarily migrated outside of Israel, outside of Gaza through Israel,

918
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 5: and we facilitated as a country to move Gazans that

919
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 5: didn't want to stay in the war zone. So that's

920
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 5: about ten percent of the two point two million Guzens

921
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 5: that supposedly stayed there since before October seventh. And I

922
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 5: think if that's a genocide, and it's very very poor one,

923
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 5: and it's not a genocide at all, it's not an

924
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 5: ethnic cleansing.

925
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: You're saying ten percent of the people left, and people

926
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 1: do like to run away from war zones. But are

927
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 1: you saying that the population of Gaza has not substantially

928
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: shrunk Apart from that, because presumably in the genocide, if

929
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 1: you start out with a million people, you end up

930
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: with half a million.

931
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 4: It's like we're the other half million. But you're saying

932
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 4: that the.

933
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: Missing people are accounted for the vast majority of them

934
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 1: chose to leave.

935
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,439
Speaker 5: I'm not saying that the Palestinian authority is saying that.

936
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 5: Romola is saying that, So it's not that's not an

937
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 5: Israeli sauce. And I'll tell you which population has declined

938
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 5: right under Hamas and Gaza and it's the Christian one.

939
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 5: When Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in two thousand and

940
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 5: seven and gave all of Gaza City and surrounding settlements

941
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 5: to the Palestinian authority, there were three thousand Christians there

942
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 5: that had been there since before the dawn of Islam.

943
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 5: Today that number is maybe five hundred seven hundred, and

944
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 5: even before October seventh, it was down to around one

945
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 5: thousand Christians. And that had nothing to do with Israeli

946
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 5: administration of targeting of churches. Contrary to a lot of

947
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 5: Western claims. That's under Hamas Palestinian administered Gaza.

948
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: Did you watch that strange interview that Taker Carlson did

949
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 1: with the nun. You know, I sarcastically call it the

950
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: nun with the mustache. But the point here is that

951
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: evidently the woman is the ciss of George Stephanopolis. She's

952
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: related to George stepanapolist Stephanopolis in any event, and she

953
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 1: gave a picture of Christians tormented and persecuted in Israel

954
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 1: and Christians flourishing in Gaza and in Muslim Land. And

955
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: you're saying that that is the very opposite of the truth.

956
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 5: It's the very opposite of the truth, and I'm not

957
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 5: surprised Tucker Carlson would put such a mouthpiece of Hamas

958
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 5: on his show. I would say, the opposite is fundamental,

959
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 5: factually true. You can go just down the road to

960
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 5: the Old City and you can see the rainforest of

961
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 5: churches that exist there, Messianic, Greek, Orthodox, Catholic, am Likin.

962
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 5: It could not be further from the truth.

963
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 1: Ethan. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.

964
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 5: Thank you.

965
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: Step into the world of the Dragon's Prophecy on a

966
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 1: tour of the ancient land of Israel. I'm Denesh Jsuza,

967
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 1: and I'm inviting you to join me and Jonathan Kahn.

968
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 1: But the Dragon's Prophecy Tour. We'll walk the ancient streets

969
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 1: of Jerusalem and visit iconic landmarks like the Western Wall,

970
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 1: the Sea of Galilee, and the Mount of Olives, exploring

971
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: the real world settings behind the mysteries and what they

972
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 1: reveal about the days we're living in. Book now at

973
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 1: inspiration travel dot com, slash Dragon, or call eight four

974
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Speaker 1: four seven one five two four two five