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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: If you picture yourself is already seated, it means you

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Speaker 2: don't have to live in jealousy or comparison longing for

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Speaker 2: a seat.

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Speaker 1: And so if you're feeling.

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Speaker 2: Excluded or left out, imagine entering a room and saying

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Speaker 2: to yourself, Okay, I'm already seated with you, Jesus, I

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Speaker 2: already have a seat at the table.

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Speaker 1: You can take your eyes off yourself.

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Speaker 2: You can think, oh well, let me go look around

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Speaker 2: and invite some people to my seat if they don't

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Speaker 2: have a seat.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the Faith over for your podcast, where we

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Speaker 3: discuss powerful truths to quiet anxiety and fear big and small.

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Speaker 3: And I know the sting of rejection, of exclusion, of

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Speaker 3: seeing friends share posts of events that they attended that

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Speaker 3: maybe you weren't invited to, or feeling like the odd

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Speaker 3: man out in your church group or your faith community,

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Speaker 3: or maybe even within your family. I suspect many of

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Speaker 3: you might know that sting as well. That ache we

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Speaker 3: experience in those situations points to our innate God design

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Speaker 3: needs to find our commune, those who see, who know,

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Speaker 3: who understand and accept us. And in this episode, I'm

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Speaker 3: talking with doctor Heather Holman on how God longs to

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Speaker 3: meet that need in a supernaturally beautiful and emotionally bonding way.

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Speaker 3: Join us after a brief message from our sponsors. I'm

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Speaker 3: Jennifer Slattery, and while I'm quite comfortable speaking from a

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Speaker 3: stage to a room full of strangers, I find it

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Speaker 3: much more challenging to walk into that same room of

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Speaker 3: strangers as an attendee searching for an empty seat, especially

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Speaker 3: when it seems like everyone else is there with friends. Plus, simply,

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Speaker 3: I don't like to feel like I'm on the outside,

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Speaker 3: unseen or excluded. I want to feel welcomed, accepted, and included.

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Speaker 3: If you can relate, you'll enjoy my conversation with doctor

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Speaker 3: Heather Holman, author of numerous Bible studies, including the one

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Speaker 3: we're discussing today, Included in Christ, an eight week study

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Speaker 3: on the Book of Ephesians. Heather, thank you so much

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Speaker 3: for joining us.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm excited to be on your program. This is

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Speaker 2: going to be a great conversation.

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Speaker 3: Heather is the author of Seeded with Christ and Guarded

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Speaker 3: by Christ. And you have another study that actually came

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Speaker 3: out correct.

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Speaker 2: Well, actually, Included with Christ is my only actual Bible study.

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Speaker 1: The Okay books are considered Christians, and I was.

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Speaker 3: Telling her before we came on. I have picked this

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Speaker 3: study up numerous times. It's super helpful. She teaches composition

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Speaker 3: and advance writing at Penn State and has received numerous

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Speaker 3: awards for excellence in teaching and mentorship during her career.

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Speaker 3: She also serves alongside her husband, Ashley, in graduate student

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Speaker 3: ministry with CRU's Faculty Commons. They live in Pennsylvania. Heather

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Speaker 3: writes daily at Heatherholman dot com. And I've had this

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Speaker 3: book for a while, so some of your bio might

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Speaker 3: have changed.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the bio has definitely. A lot of time has passed.

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Speaker 2: My girls are now in college. My husband and I

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Speaker 2: are no longer with Crew, although I volunteer with Crew,

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Speaker 2: but we have our own ministry called Seeded and Sent,

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Speaker 2: where we help churches grow with evangelism and having warm conversations.

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Speaker 1: I think Ephesians is the most important.

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Speaker 2: Book to read in the Book of Ephesians, and as

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Speaker 2: a writing and structor, I study a lot about the

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Speaker 2: power of the strong verb, and that verb Seeded is

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Speaker 2: completely life changing. But after I wrote that book, a

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Speaker 2: lot of women were hungry for more key verbs, and

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Speaker 2: I was like, well, then we have to do the

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Speaker 2: whole Book of Ephesians, because there are actually some powerful

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Speaker 2: verbs that if you'd think about them and let them

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Speaker 2: direct your.

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Speaker 1: Day, it is paradigm shifting.

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Speaker 2: The verbs are chosen, included, seeded, strengthened, renewed, filled, and proclaiming,

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Speaker 2: and those map onto the six chapters of the Book

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Speaker 2: of Ephesians.

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Speaker 3: I love it. One of the reasons I loved your

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Speaker 3: study and the Book of Ephesians. I was not raised

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Speaker 3: in a Christian home, and so some of it I

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Speaker 3: can relate to the people living in Ephesus coming from

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Speaker 3: a completely different culture.

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Speaker 1: Yes, who am I now?

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Speaker 3: And just all of their negative programming. So that being said,

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Speaker 3: what truth in Ephesians do you find most comforting and encouraging,

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Speaker 3: particularly when you're feeling anxious, afraid, or alone.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there's no more power for verb, if

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Speaker 2: I were to rank them, than what it means to

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Speaker 2: be seated in Christ.

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Speaker 1: And this comes from the second chapter.

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Speaker 2: It's beautiful because Paul is really asking people to picture

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Speaker 2: their seat with Jesus in the heavenly realms. So the

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Speaker 2: verse is, and God raised you up us up with

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Speaker 2: Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms

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Speaker 2: in Christ, Jesus, and a couple things you need to

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Speaker 2: notice about the verb. It is a past tense verb

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Speaker 2: if you think about it's happening to us now in part,

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Speaker 2: but it's also going to be happening in the future.

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Speaker 1: It's such a powerful biblical.

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Speaker 2: Image because I want you to picture what it means

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Speaker 2: that you're already seated at the greatest table with the

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Speaker 2: greatest King, and what it means that Jesus is seated.

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Speaker 2: If you're new to the faith, it's a really powerful

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Speaker 2: theological verb because in the Old test stent priests were

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Speaker 2: never allowed to sit down because it meant that the

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Speaker 2: work of.

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Speaker 1: Sacrificing was finished.

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Speaker 2: But if you picture yourself as already seated, it means

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Speaker 2: you don't have to live in jealousy or comparison longing

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Speaker 2: for a seat.

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Speaker 1: And so if you're.

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Speaker 2: Feeling excluded or left out, imagine entering a room and

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Speaker 2: saying to yourself, okay, I'm already seated with you Jesus,

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Speaker 2: I already have a seat at the table.

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Speaker 1: You can take your eyes off yourself.

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Speaker 2: You can think, oh well, let me go look around

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Speaker 2: and invite some people to my seat. If they don't

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Speaker 2: have a seat. My next favorite would probably be Renewed,

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Speaker 2: which comes from Ephesians for about being renewed in the

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Speaker 2: attitude of your mind. I love Ephesians four.

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Speaker 3: Awesome. In your book, you emphasize the value of practicing

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Speaker 3: expressive writing, and I totally get that if you're a

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Speaker 3: writing instructor, but also you emphasize it in terms of

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Speaker 3: our own growth, healing, and transformation. So first, what does

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Speaker 3: that mean if somebody's listened, Like, how do I even

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Speaker 3: do that?

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Speaker 2: Well? A big part of being a writing instructor is

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Speaker 2: just the research behind how wonderful storytelling is and what

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Speaker 2: it means that you have these stories that God has

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Speaker 2: given you that help shape your identity and what happens

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Speaker 2: is if you think about your life and the different

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Speaker 2: things that have happened to you. There's a lot in

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Speaker 2: scripture about speaking about those like look if you think

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Speaker 2: of Psalm forty, where the Psalmist says, I don't hide

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Speaker 2: your righteousness in my heart. I speak of your faithfulness

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Speaker 2: and of your saving help. I do not conceal your

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Speaker 2: love and faithfulness from the Great assembly.

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Speaker 1: So it's this.

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Speaker 2: Idea of always sharing what God has done. I teach

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Speaker 2: readers of Included with Christ to think of, Okay, what's

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Speaker 2: the before scene? What were you like before you have

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Speaker 2: an encounter with Jesus, so that he did something important

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Speaker 2: in your life, and then tell the after that story

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Speaker 2: of transformation. And then when you tell other people that story,

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Speaker 2: it's really powerful and they can encounter God through your life.

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Speaker 3: Awesome. How can that help us process areas in need

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Speaker 3: of growth.

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Speaker 1: Or feeling well.

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Speaker 2: I've been in therapeutic settings for a long time and

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Speaker 2: I'm constantly reading new researches about what's good for your brain,

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Speaker 2: what's good to grow and in my faith, I realized

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Speaker 2: that I walk around sometimes telling myself really negative stories

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Speaker 2: lies about my life. In the book, I call them

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Speaker 2: shadow narratives, which is a term that comes out of therapy.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of the dark lie.

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Speaker 2: You're telling yourself that you've been rejected, wounded, excluded, and

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Speaker 2: you ruminate on these negative things and what you're preventing

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Speaker 2: yourself from doing is probably what the research would call

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Speaker 2: this kind of resilience or post traumatic growth, where you're

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Speaker 2: really understanding the real I call them the savior story,

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Speaker 2: the story of your victory, the story of what you've

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Speaker 2: learned how you've grown. So, for example, what's the story

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Speaker 2: you're telling yourself about rejection and you've become really rejection sensitive.

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Speaker 2: What if instead you change that and tell me the

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Speaker 2: story of God choosing. You walk around with that story

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Speaker 2: that instead of rejection, I'm now chosen. Or you can

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Speaker 2: do that with included or seeded. Think, well, what does

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Speaker 2: God say about me in the Book of Ephesians.

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Speaker 3: I love it. It's a manageable book to read through.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't take a whole lot of time if you

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Speaker 3: wanted to just sit and like say, I really want

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Speaker 3: to read through the Book of Ephesians.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's only six chapters. Like what you were saying

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Speaker 2: about not growing up in a Christian home, I love

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Speaker 2: what you said. Ephesians is written to help non Jewish believers.

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Speaker 1: Understand everything they need to know in Christ.

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Speaker 2: So I'm thinking to myself, if I'm new to the faith,

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Speaker 2: what's the book of the Bible written for me?

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Speaker 1: It's Ephesians. You're going to learn a lot about the

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Speaker 1: spiritual world in general.

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Speaker 2: You're going to read astonishing things, for example in Ephesian

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Speaker 2: six about spiritual battle and putting on the full armor

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Speaker 2: of God. I love Ephesian six, because it tells you

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Speaker 2: the true story of what's kind of happening in our world.

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Speaker 2: You're going to read something really powerful in Ephesians five

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Speaker 2: that change my life forever. And it's the verb filled,

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Speaker 2: which means you can be filled with the Spirit, which

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Speaker 2: the translation of that is really being controlled and empowered

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Speaker 2: by the Holy Spirit. Every day you can ask God

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Speaker 2: to fill you. I mean, all believers are in dwelt

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Speaker 2: with the Holy Spirit. When you pray to receive Christ,

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Speaker 2: you receive a gift, and that gift is the Holy Spirit.

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Speaker 1: But if you woke up.

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Speaker 2: Tomorrow I said, Jesus, I want the Holy Spirit to

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Speaker 2: control and direct my day. I give the Holy Spirit

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Speaker 2: full permission to live out this Ephesians five, eighteen to

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Speaker 2: nineteen because the passage says, don't get drunk on wine,

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Speaker 2: which leads to to bauchery.

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Speaker 1: Instead, be filled with the spirit.

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Speaker 2: In other words, let the Spirit be as intoxicating to

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Speaker 2: you as taking over.

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Speaker 1: You as if you were drunk, because that's how powerful

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 2: So imagine depending on God and not your own resources

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Speaker 2: all day long because you're filled with the Spirit. I

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Speaker 2: reiterate Ephesians two almost every day to myself. Ephesians two

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Speaker 2: one to ten. Do you have a favorite like chapter

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Speaker 2: that you would go to.

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Speaker 3: I particularly like recognizing the power that we do have

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Speaker 3: in Christ. Yeah, the power of the risen Savior residing

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Speaker 3: within me. I'm also encouraged by Faul's prayer that they

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Speaker 3: would grasp God's love. And it seems to me, and

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Speaker 3: you have studied this book way more in depth, but

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Speaker 3: it seems to me like he's drawing a connection between

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Speaker 3: the more we understand His love with the more we

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Speaker 3: live in the fullness of God. Do you feel like

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Speaker 3: there's a connection.

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Speaker 2: Well, yes, and the fact that we have to ask

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Speaker 2: God for it because it's not going to be natural,

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Speaker 2: like you said, And I love like Ephesians three, where

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Speaker 2: he's like, I pray that out of his glorious riches,

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Speaker 2: he may strengthen you with power in your spirit, through

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Speaker 2: your in your inner being. You always have to ask

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Speaker 2: questions like why do I need strength? Why do I

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Speaker 2: need this power? What's coming against me? And what you're

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Speaker 2: talking about with Ephesians four, there's this idea of the

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Speaker 2: old self, and it's corrupting us and preventing us from

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Speaker 2: living in the fullness of gop So if you think

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Speaker 2: about that prayer, like, Okay, let's be made new in

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Speaker 2: the attitude of our mind and put on this new self,

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Speaker 2: created to be like God and true righteousness and holiness.

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Speaker 1: That's a prayer I need every day.

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Speaker 2: I'm like you, I think in the book I talk

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Speaker 2: about it's like getting rid of snake skin, like shed

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Speaker 2: your skin every morning, be like, Okay, I need the

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Speaker 2: old skin is gone.

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Speaker 1: I need a new self every morning.

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Speaker 2: I can quickly get out of step with God's spirit

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Speaker 2: and become a terrible person.

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Speaker 1: So I have to renew myself every day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. When I first started attending church, I was newly married.

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Speaker 3: My husband was not a believer at the time, and

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Speaker 3: so I would go by myself, and I remember feeling

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Speaker 3: so out of place. I would look in front of me.

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Speaker 3: There's couples and couples and couples and family and family

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Speaker 3: and family, and I didn't understand the language, and they

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Speaker 3: seem to have it all together. In reality, I was

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Speaker 3: included even back then, bonded by the Holy Spirit uniting

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Speaker 3: me to this family that I'm learning a new culture,

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Speaker 3: I was. I was learning to assimilate in that culture,

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Speaker 3: and so had I read your study. Back then, it

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Speaker 3: would have been helpful to just say, Okay, what I'm

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Speaker 3: feeling is uncomfortable, not exclusion.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, that's really hard.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's what I love about the Book of

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Speaker 2: Ephesians is you're right, there's a lot of new theological

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Speaker 2: language in this book, and when you're new to the faith,

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Speaker 2: you're sort of like, Okay, I don't even understand this.

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Speaker 1: Or that or this.

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Speaker 2: But if you read it as if you're just learning

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Speaker 2: these new things, the same way, the gentile readers would

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Speaker 2: have been like, I don't know what any of this means.

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Speaker 2: You may spend a whole week just being like, what

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Speaker 2: does that even mean? I gotta find some friends to

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Speaker 2: teach me this kind of new language.

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Speaker 1: But it's so curious your story.

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Speaker 2: Did you go to church because you felt belonging in

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Speaker 2: your heart to know Jesus or did someone invite you so?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's a little bit of a complicated story. I

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Speaker 3: actually received Christ as a young child in a trailer park.

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Speaker 3: I went to one of the neighbors. She opened her

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Speaker 3: home to a bunch of US kids, and she did

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Speaker 3: a neighborhood good news club.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like a backyard Bible collexactly.

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Speaker 3: So I had the Salvation piece, and our family moved

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Speaker 3: a lot, and a lot of times we had lived

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Speaker 3: next to a pastor. I didn't have any knowledge past

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Speaker 3: that really, and I had this sense of like, okay

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Speaker 3: when I would walk onto these into these homes that

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Speaker 3: were where Christians lived, this pervasive sense of peace, love, empty,

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Speaker 3: and I could look back on my child and be like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: that family they were Christ followers. That family, they were

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Speaker 3: Christ followers, and it's proven true like later. So then

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Speaker 3: once I got to be an adult and I had

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Speaker 3: a kid, I was invited by a neighbor who I

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Speaker 3: never met before, never saw again, was walking through our

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Speaker 3: neighborhood and one day randomly invited me to church. She

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Speaker 3: didn't know my life was falling apart at the time

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Speaker 3: and my marriage was falling apart. So I went. But

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Speaker 3: it was a combination of in my mind that church

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Speaker 3: was family, was safe, and was love. I was drawn

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Speaker 3: to that for those reasons, but I didn't know what

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Speaker 3: it meant to live aligned with Christ, and so much

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Speaker 3: of my worldview was so so skewed. The world view

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Speaker 3: shift took a really long time, So I don't know

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Speaker 3: if that answers your question.

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Speaker 1: No, I love that.

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Speaker 2: The reason why I ask is my actual The verb

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Speaker 2: that really from Ephesians that really got my attention was

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Speaker 2: actually from Ephesian six that people ignore, and it's the

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Speaker 2: verb proclaim, I love that you had a neighbor that

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Speaker 2: would open her house and care about these little kids

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Speaker 2: and want them to know the Lord. And then that

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Speaker 2: friend on the walk, you know whatever, inviting you Ephesian six.

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Speaker 2: Everyone overlooks the fact that it's only one of three

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Speaker 2: times in the New Testament that Paul asks for personal prayer.

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Speaker 2: So wouldn't you be curious, if you're Paul, what are

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Speaker 2: you going to ask for? If you're thinking, okay, I

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Speaker 2: to ask everyone to pray for me, wouldn't I pray

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Speaker 2: to get out of prison, or maybe that God would

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Speaker 2: send me a wife or something like that. Listen to

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Speaker 2: what Paul prays for. I memorized it and it changed

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Speaker 2: my life. He says, pray for me that whenever I speak,

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Speaker 2: words may be given to me, so I may fearlessly

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Speaker 2: make known the mystery of the Gospel. Pray that I

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Speaker 2: may proclaim it clearly as I should. Now, I love

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Speaker 2: that because that woman, that neighbor, she was proclaiming who

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Speaker 2: Jesus was, and that friend who invited you to church,

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Speaker 2: and I really love that as part of my identity.

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Speaker 2: Ephesian doesn't just say you're seated. The next verb you

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Speaker 2: need to look at is that you're sent. That comes

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Speaker 2: from John twenty twenty one. And you're proclaiming. So really

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Speaker 2: think about the progression. You're chosen included seated. He's going

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Speaker 2: to strengthen you. I'm just going through the chapters renew you,

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Speaker 2: fill you. But why it ends with because you're going

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Speaker 2: to proclaim so Ephesians is going to give you not

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Speaker 2: only a new identity, but a new purpose.

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Speaker 1: It's going to change your life forever.

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Speaker 3: And you're inviting everybody to the table you talk about

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Speaker 3: which oh they make You have a quote at the

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Speaker 3: beginning of week one aw Tozer. You quoted him as saying,

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Speaker 3: there is a strain of loneliness infecting many Christians, which

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Speaker 3: only the presence of.

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Speaker 1: God can cure.

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Speaker 3: With that in mind, you talk about living filled. Now

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Speaker 3: that's a progression, right, Like it's not like we just

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Speaker 3: if we're new believers and we're like, okay, Lord fill

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Speaker 3: me and Holy Spirit lead me and then boom, we're

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Speaker 3: good to go. For the next ten years.

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Speaker 2: No, it is a daily surrender. It's a confession of sin.

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Speaker 2: It's basically saying to the Lord, I give you the

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Speaker 2: right to lead my life today, but you may take

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Speaker 2: back up control the next day. So it's sort of

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Speaker 2: a daily practice for me. But you're right, it's not

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Speaker 2: like you say a prayer of salvation and then everything's great,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, lining ourselves with not just that we're included,

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Speaker 3: but all those verbs and particularly actually I think there's

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Speaker 3: particularly living sin. How does that really help us experience

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Speaker 3: the presence of God. God that can help us not

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Speaker 3: feel so lonely or disconnected.

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Speaker 2: I love that you asked that question because recently I

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Speaker 2: made the connection that the greatest thing happening in the

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Speaker 2: world today is that God is building a kingdom for himself.

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Speaker 2: We know that Jesus is seeking and saving the loss.

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Speaker 2: We know that what in John twenty twenty one he says,

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Speaker 2: as the Father has sent me, so I send you.

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Speaker 2: So what is Jesus doing right now? We know he

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Speaker 2: says the Father is always at work. So God is

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Speaker 2: actively drawing people to himself. The Bible teaches us that

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Speaker 2: he is going to use us.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't have to.

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Speaker 2: He can use donkeys or stones or ravens, he can

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Speaker 2: use anything, but he chooses to use us to lead

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Speaker 2: others to Jesus. And He's continually inviting us into that work.

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Speaker 2: When I am involved in letting Jesus send me each day,

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Speaker 2: I feel really close to him. I don't have a

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Speaker 2: lonely feeling because I'm on mission with him. I'm not

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Speaker 2: doing things for Jesus. I'm doing things with him. That's

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Speaker 2: really impacted my own sense of loneliness and aw tow's.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember if I put this quote in, but

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Speaker 2: he has a quote that I kept in my purse

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Speaker 2: for years, and it says God is so vastly wonderful,

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Speaker 2: so utterly and completely delightful, that he can, without anything

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Speaker 2: other than himself, meet and overflow the total demands of

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Speaker 2: our nature, deep and mysterious as that nature is, so,

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Speaker 2: no matter how deep your loneliness goes, God, just because

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Speaker 2: of who he is, is able to solve that problem

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Speaker 2: and meet that need. He may do it through other

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Speaker 2: people as well. He'll bring you into community. Primarily, you're

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Speaker 2: made for God. You are made to be in relationship

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Speaker 2: with Him, and you're designed to surrender your life to him.

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Speaker 2: So when you're not doing that, something will feel out

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Speaker 2: of alignment.

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Speaker 1: There will be an ache there that you cannot name.

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Speaker 2: You may call it loneliness, but the ache is there,

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Speaker 2: and the ache is for Jesus. It's to be in

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Speaker 2: union with him, which is what we mean when we

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Speaker 2: say we're filled with the Holy Spirit. So you can

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Speaker 2: experience conscious union with Jesus. It is an amazing and

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Speaker 2: marvelous thing.

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Speaker 3: Let's shift a little. If you talked about the shadow story,

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Speaker 3: which is the the false the lies. Yeah, and then

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Speaker 3: you talk about a signature or is that different from

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Speaker 3: a savior story.

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Speaker 2: They're the same thing, a signature story. This is so

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Speaker 2: cool if you think about it. I was talking to

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Speaker 2: a marketing expert and she was guiding me and my

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Speaker 2: students that every person has a couple of really powerful

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Speaker 2: stories in their life, their signature stories, because they're so

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Speaker 2: unique to you. Nobody grew up with your backyard, your family,

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Speaker 2: in your house. It's kind of a sublime thing to

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Speaker 2: think about. There are six billion people on the planet.

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Speaker 2: Nobody had your dog. You have a unique, one of

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Speaker 2: a kind point of view on the universe just because

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Speaker 2: of who you are. There are stories that God has

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Speaker 2: given you to share about Him that only you can

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Speaker 2: tell because of who you are and the authority that

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Speaker 2: gives you to walk into places and share your story

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Speaker 2: and to know the late Tim Keller said, it's almost like,

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Speaker 2: what if you have a story that's going to be

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Speaker 2: a healing story for someone else. Your story is going

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Speaker 2: to be like a lock and key unlock something in

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Speaker 2: someone else. They needed healing, They needed to know something

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Speaker 2: about God that only you can tell because of who

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Speaker 2: you are. And it's your signature story because it's as

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Speaker 2: unique as your handwriting or branding expert named Jennifer Aker

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Speaker 2: brand you coin that term. But I like it that

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Speaker 2: it's a savior story. It's your story of encountering Jesus,

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Speaker 2: and when you tell it, it's going to help other

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Speaker 2: people understand something about Jesus that they couldn't have learned

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Speaker 2: without you. As Lewis always talks about the uniqueness of

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Speaker 2: friendship when some when you're missing from the room, we're

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Speaker 2: missing something that no one else can bring because of

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Speaker 2: who you are.

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Speaker 3: I love how you're emphasizing through story and relationship and friendship,

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Speaker 3: that's how we change the world right not arguing with people.

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Speaker 2: No, that's the book I wrote called The Six Conversations

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Speaker 2: on having Better conversations. It really came out of Once

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Speaker 2: you know you're seated and sent, you actually need some

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Speaker 2: skills to engage with the culture and create warm connections

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Speaker 2: because we're really in a loneliness epidemic because of the

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Speaker 2: rise of isolation and incivility.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of what you can do with your.

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Speaker 2: Ephesian's identity now is go out into the culture and

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Speaker 2: learn how to make warm connections. Think about Ephesian six,

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Speaker 2: like your neighbor who voted the wrong way is not

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Speaker 2: your enemy. Satan's actually our enemy. You can lift your

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Speaker 2: eyes a little and think, Okay, let's stop hating everyone

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Speaker 2: and just share the good things that Jesus is doing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.

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Speaker 3: So your second week you focus on the fact that

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Speaker 3: God chose us. How has that encouraged you personally? Well?

440
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 2: As I got older, I was amazed at kind of

441
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,200
Speaker 2: the immaturity I still feel I'm turning fifty. When other

442
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 2: women are chosen for professional awards, or when I write

443
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 2: a book and other people win book awards or whatever.

444
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,959
Speaker 2: I was surprised at how even as a fifty year

445
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 2: old woman. I can feel this sting of rejection when

446
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 2: I'm not chosen for something, or my children aren't chosen

447
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:47,920
Speaker 2: for something.

448
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 1: Like if you're listening and your child doesn't get.

449
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,439
Speaker 2: A date to the prom or get to go to

450
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,160
Speaker 2: the college they wanted, and maybe your children are rejected.

451
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 2: I was really struggling with that, and then I realized, well, wait,

452
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 2: Jesus chose me, and there's a sense of thinking, Okay,

453
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 2: I didn't get this award. What does it mean that

454
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,360
Speaker 2: Jesus chose me? And one of our favorite family mottos

455
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 2: is every rejection is God's protection, meaning there was a

456
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 2: reason why I wasn't chosen for this other thing, and

457
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 2: I don't need to worry about it. God chose me,

458
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 2: He seated me with him in the heavenly realms. And

459
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,120
Speaker 2: the end of Ephesians too, that section says that we're

460
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 2: God's masterpiece created in Christ Jesus to do good works

461
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,880
Speaker 2: which God prepared in advance for us.

462
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:28,199
Speaker 1: To do.

463
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,719
Speaker 2: That means you do your good works. You may win

464
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 2: an award, you may not. It doesn't matter. You're bearing

465
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 2: fruit for Jesus. Let him take care of the results.

466
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 2: But you're acting from a place of being deeply chosen.

467
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, did that happen to you, Jennifer? Like

468
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 2: we're getting older, even at our age, are you still

469
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,360
Speaker 2: shock that things can hurt, like when other people win,

470
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 2: especially whatever space you're in, like podcast ranking or public

471
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 2: speaking events. But I have to remember, no God chose me.

472
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 2: I'm seated at the best table already. I don't need

473
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 2: to be at the table where people are winning awards

474
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 2: because I'm already at the best table with Jesus. And

475
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 2: then now what do I do? Well, I go bear

476
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 2: the fruit that He's ordained for my life. I live

477
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 2: a scent life, which becomes so marvelous because you don't

478
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 2: know who He's going to send you to each day.

479
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm a mama, and I can think of in

480
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,919
Speaker 3: terms of my daughter, but I also can think in

481
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 3: terms of like nieces and nephews, and particularly in middle

482
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,400
Speaker 3: school and high school. And it's a tough environment nowadays.

483
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 3: And so how can we help our loved ones be

484
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,640
Speaker 3: anchored in the truth of who they are when those

485
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 3: rejections hit without diminishing their feeling, without coming at them like,

486
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 3: oh you're sad, So here's the truth. But like, how

487
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 3: can we help them begin to embody and maybe ourselves

488
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 3: embody some of these truths.

489
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 2: Well, the jealousy and comparison begins usually in middle school.

490
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 2: That's why I talk about that moment in middle school

491
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 2: when you realize you don't have a seat at the

492
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 2: popular table. That's where the shadow narrative begins. I don't belong,

493
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 2: I'm not popular, So the jealousy in comparison and the

494
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 2: sense of being excluded usually begin there. The way to

495
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 2: help young people is to tell your own story of

496
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 2: how you learned you had a seat with Jesus. I

497
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 2: really care about this right now, just this week writing

498
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 2: the book. The first book was called This Seat Saved,

499
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 2: and it's written for middle schoolers. To understand, it's a

500
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,199
Speaker 2: fictional book, So just tell stories about Okay, here's what

501
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,160
Speaker 2: it's going to feel like to not have your seat.

502
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 2: But let me tell you this marvelous secret about what

503
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 2: it means that you're seated at the table with Jesus

504
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 2: and he's with you. He will be a forever friend

505
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 2: to you. It's both storytelling and it's also giving them

506
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: resources like that to understand some of the deep spiritual principles.

507
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 2: But I've even known really young people eight year olds.

508
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: They grasp that they're seated with Christ.

509
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 2: They're old enough to read the Bible and understand what

510
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 2: Jesus is saying. You can also help them use images.

511
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 2: I love King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table.

512
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 2: I love any image where someone's being called to a

513
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,439
Speaker 2: seat at the table that helps young people picture what

514
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 2: Paul might have been picturing. Because remember he was in

515
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 2: a Roman prison, and yet he somehow pictured himself in

516
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 2: the heavenly realms with Jesus, and he even reiterates it

517
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 2: and Collide three that we're supposed to set our minds

518
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 2: on things above where Christ is seated at the right

519
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 2: hand of God.

520
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 3: That's really good, and that's a great way to end

521
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 3: our discussion and to recap some things you said. What

522
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 3: I noticed as you're talking is this thing would hit

523
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 3: and you immediately shifted your mind to truce that you

524
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 3: found in Ephesian. So I love the visualization aspect to

525
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 3: really help help us and our loved ones to grasp

526
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 3: those truths deeper.

527
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 2: Yes, and you can ask the Lord, like, what am

528
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 2: I supposed to picture here? What was Paul picturing?

529
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: If you want, you can talk.

530
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 2: About the theological continuity because there's a lot of tables

531
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 2: in the Bible. You could read the story of a

532
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 2: fib chef in the Old Testament being invited to sit

533
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 2: with the king, but he's an enemy of the king

534
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 2: and he has nothing to contribute.

535
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: Young people love this story.

536
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 2: He's not supposed to be at this table, and yet

537
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 2: King David invites him to.

538
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 1: This is a great story.

539
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 2: If you remember it in the Book of Samuel, you'll

540
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 2: love that. Also, think about Psalm twenty five. God prepares

541
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,360
Speaker 2: a table for us in the presence of our enemies.

542
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 2: You could look at the wedding supper of the lamb.

543
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 2: Now what's really cool for young people? Did you know

544
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 2: that in the Gospels we actually hear about tables we're

545
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 2: not supposed to sit at, children love.

546
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: Do you think about it? Is anything comeing to mind?

547
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: We're told we're not supposed to sit in the seat

548
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 2: of mockers. Jesus does not like the people who are

549
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 2: seeking the best seats, who want the best clothes. He

550
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 2: doesn't like the popular people who just want to be

551
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: greeting in the marketplace.

552
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: It's called the Seven Woes.

553
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 2: Read the Book of Matthew and you'll see what Jesus

554
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 2: doesn't like and yet Jesus was criticized because he sat

555
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 2: at the table with people that nobody else wanted. So

556
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,719
Speaker 2: you can tell young people these truths like Okay, what

557
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: table are you going to sit at? And what does

558
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,239
Speaker 2: it mean that you're seated with Jesus? And what kind

559
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 2: of table are you seeking? It's a really cool metaphor

560
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 2: to help young people grow.

561
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 3: For us as well, I'm like, oh yeah, for to

562
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 3: do me too, Thank you more.

563
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: And to our.

564
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 3: Listeners, we don't have time, but one of the things

565
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 3: you really need to get this study read it because

566
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 3: I also really love how you connect our authority over

567
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,959
Speaker 3: the spiritual realm by our position in Christ, and that

568
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 3: I feel is super powerful, especially nowadays when our world

569
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 3: feels so topsy turvy. We are more settled. We have

570
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 3: more authority than we realize. I think a lot of times,

571
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,239
Speaker 3: Doctor Holman, this was such a great conversation. Thank you

572
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 3: so much for joining us.

573
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you as great questions and I love

574
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 2: being on your program.

575
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you.

576
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 3: Wasn't that an encouraging conversation? Speaking of living included, I

577
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 3: wanted to remind you of my free resource on the

578
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 3: U Version Bible app embracing your true self living in

579
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 3: your Christ centered identity. This thirty day Plan reminds us

580
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,719
Speaker 3: that we're not insufficient, overlooked, unimportant, or unseen. In Christ.

581
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 3: We are loved, chosen, called, redeemed, empowered, and held close

582
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 3: by the one who crafted our every cell, knows our

583
00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 3: every floss, sees our potential, and loves us deeply. Unfortunately,

584
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 3: wounds from our past can challenge our ability to view

585
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 3: ourselves as the Lord's beloved. I pray this thirty day

586
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 3: Plan reminds all of us who we are to Christ

587
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 3: and who we are in Christ, so that we can

588
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: live with increased confidence and joy. And again, that resource

589
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 3: is available for free on the U version Bible app.

590
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 3: If you haven't already done so, I encourage you to

591
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 3: subscribe to this podcast. Then you want miss a single episode,

592
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 3: share it with your family and your friends, make sure

593
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 3: to rate it and review it. That encourages me and Carol,

594
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 3: and it helps others to find our content. Until next time,

595
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 3: may you live as one who truly has been set free,