1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Life Audio, and my friend ordered an alcoholic drink, and 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: I remember just sitting there and she knew, but also 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: she knew that I was going to be surrounded by 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: alcohol in this journey, and I remember just saying, staring 5 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 1: at this drinking, thinking like, am I gonna just grab it? 6 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 2: This podcast is for the woman who loves Jesus or 7 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 2: who is longing to reconnect with him, and who knows 8 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: deep down that alcohol is no longer serving her. I'm 9 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 2: your host, Dan your coach Christy Osbourne. Here we'll talk honestly, 10 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 2: with grace and truth about how stepping away from wine 11 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 2: opens the door to the love, joy, peace and connection 12 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 2: you've been searching for. Because, Babe, those were never meant 13 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 2: to be found in a bottle of wine, They're found 14 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 2: in Jesus. Through scripture, coaching and neuroscience, I'll help you 15 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: make sense of your habits, your nervous system, and your 16 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 2: heart so freedom feels possible and sustainable. You don't have 17 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: to do this alone, babe. Welcome to Love Life Sober. Hello, 18 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: my beautiful friend, and today we are going to talk 19 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 2: to Lauren Wendell, who is a journalist, a presenter, a 20 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 2: public speaker, and an author of three books. She's been 21 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 2: published basically everywhere including Vogue, Marie Claire at the Church Times, 22 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 2: Premiere Christianity, and so many others. And she is eleven 23 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 2: years alcohol free, and we are going to talk all 24 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 2: about her sobriety story where Jesus showed up, what she's learned, 25 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 2: what was hard. She is going to offer you so 26 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 2: much hope on your own alcohol exodus, and stay tuned 27 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 2: for the end of this episode because we talk of 28 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 2: why we think alcohol shouldn't be served in churches. I 29 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 2: hope you enjoyed this conversation with Lauren Wendell. 30 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 3: Hey, Lauren, how are you babe? Hey, I'm so pleased 31 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 3: to be here. 32 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: I'm so so glad because I've been following you on 33 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: Instagram and you have written so many incredible books, and 34 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 2: you've been published in so many awesome public occasions. But 35 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 2: I would just really love to hear your story, your 36 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,559 Speaker 2: alcohol free testimony, because those are the stories that women 37 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 2: just love and relate to. 38 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 3: So take us back, tell us everything. 39 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, gosh, I mean, basically, from a really young age, 40 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: I got what I would now call social anxiety, but 41 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: we didn't have that kind of language when I was 42 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: like in school, So all I knew was that I 43 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: was like desperate to be popular, But it didn't matter 44 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: what happened. I always felt on the outside, right, And 45 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: I think sometimes we can be looking for that. So 46 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: whether I was on the outside or not, I mean, 47 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: is a whole different question. And definitely sometimes I was 48 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: and at times I wasn't, But I always felt on 49 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: the outside. I always felt like everyone kind of knew 50 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: something I did, and everyone had a manual for how 51 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: to do stuff, how to be popular, and I was 52 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: desperate to be popular, and that sort of pressure that 53 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: I put on myself, and also that like friends and kids, 54 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: you know, the sort of pressure that they put on 55 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: each other, like at school, particularly when you're like a teenager. 56 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: That I had this kind of anxiety. Alcohol I found 57 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: was like the most effective way to cut myself off 58 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: from the sort of consciousness of that anxiety didn't necessarily 59 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: mean that the desires were gone or that I didn't 60 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:14,399 Speaker 1: want to be popuar I didn't care what people thought 61 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: of me, because I definitely did. Still just meant that 62 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: I like severed that connection and I wasn't constantly coming 63 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: from a place of anxiety and I could just distance myself. 64 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 3: I could just bury my head in the sand and 65 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 3: get on with it. 66 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: And like, I started drinking when I was maybe thirteen 67 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 1: fourteen is when it really kicked off, and it was 68 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: kind of easy to get hold of alcohol back then. 69 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: The rules were completely tightened up since but there was 70 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: always someone's older brother or sister, and lots of shops 71 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: would sell to you even when they knew you were younger. 72 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: So me and my friends were just drink and somebody 73 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: getting drunk or throwing up or something wasn't that unusual. 74 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: Not everyone did it, but it happened enough that like 75 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: if you did that, people didn't think that you were 76 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: like crazy or weird or had a problem. They were 77 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 1: just like, yeah, that happens every now and again. And 78 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: I got older and I went to university, and then 79 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: suddenly I had a little bit more money from like 80 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: a student loan and stuff, so I could buy alcohol 81 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: whenever I wanted, and I was definitely legally allowed to 82 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: by then, and I just really kept drinking, like I 83 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: couldn't have imagined not drinking. I remember even when I 84 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: was like nineteen or twenty, thinking, like to be pregnant 85 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 1: would be awful, because oh. 86 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 3: My gosh, yes, I used to think that too. 87 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I honestly didn't know how people did it 88 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: for those like nine ten months from whenever they found out, 89 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: Like I just didn't, and people giving up drinking in 90 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: order to try for kids. 91 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 3: I was like, I like that was my panic. 92 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: You know, I was very much hiding in plain sight, 93 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: like a sort of twenty something drinking loads in the 94 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: UK at universities where like drinking is totally encouraged, you 95 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 1: know that like college culture of like do shots, go 96 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: to parties, go to bars kind of thing. But really 97 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: it wasn't helping me be popular. Lots of my friends 98 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: sort of challenged me on that behavior, and things just 99 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: got worse and worse. And I started taking cocaine as well. 100 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: When I got out of university and was in a job, 101 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,239 Speaker 1: and I'd gone through this big breakup and my whole 102 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: identity was wrapped up in this guy and I used 103 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 1: to drink glows together as well, and so I got 104 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 1: this job working in events and marketing. So I was 105 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: just this party girl and I could drink, and I 106 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: could hand out drinks and I could sign off bills 107 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: for drinks. And then I took some cocaine as well, 108 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: and I was like, Okay, this is my identity. 109 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 3: Now, I'm just this fun person. 110 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: And I really felt like I took so much pride 111 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: in my drinking, like how much I could drink. I 112 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: could drink more than that guy. I could drink more 113 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: than that girl. I like would say someone I would 114 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 1: let us grab lunch, and someone would say to them, like, oh, 115 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: be careful, because you'd go out for lunch with Lauren. 116 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: You won't get home until lunchtime the next day, probably 117 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: with one shoe and your shirt ripped or something. And 118 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: I used to be so proud of that, like, Yeah, 119 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: that's what's fun. You guys don't know what fun is. 120 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: I'm just going to drink and drink and drink, right. 121 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: I kept going for ages, and my family would definitely 122 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: worried about me. I had friends sort of distance themselves 123 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: from me because of my behavior, and I started to 124 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: get like physical symptoms from the amount and I was 125 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: drinking and from drugs as well. But actually looking into 126 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: it a little bit more, since I think most of 127 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: the symptoms I had were associated with the amount of 128 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: alcohol I was consuming, and I think it's really easy 129 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: when you're sort of taking drugs as well to be 130 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: like that's the problem because alcohol is so normalized. Yeah, 131 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: we get like that is a huge problem. And the 132 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: amount I was drinking meant that I got like numbness 133 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: in my fingers and toes and these sort of floaters 134 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: in front of my eyes, and my memory was terrible. 135 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: I wasn't sleeping very well, and sort of sleeping through 136 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: the day when I wasn't working and stuff, just to 137 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: kind of catch up with myself, this thing that was 138 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: supposed to facilitate this big, popular life, you know, it 139 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: just meant that my world got smaller and smaller and 140 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: smaller around me, until I wasn't really seeing daylight, and 141 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: work was constantly annoyed with me for not showing up, 142 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: and I never made breakfast plan because I would still 143 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: be awake from the night before or too drunk, and 144 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: I'd lose like my keys and my bank cards all 145 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: the time, and I wasn't opening my mail properly, and 146 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 1: I was just letting people down, just living for myself 147 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: day to day and not even enjoying it. And eventually 148 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: I sort of told my sister and I told my friends, 149 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: like I really want to make a change. Initially, I 150 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: would have been really happy to keep hold of the 151 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: alcohol and just stop taking the drugs. The idea of 152 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: a life without alcohol, Like I knew a life without 153 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: drugs before i'd started taking them. 154 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 3: I was like, Yeah, that's cool, I can totally do 155 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 3: that again. 156 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: Like I'll miss them, and obviously, you know, a bit 157 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: addicted and whatever, so that's going to be really hard 158 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: to cut them out. As soon as I started drinking, 159 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to take the drugs. Anyway, The idea of 160 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: giving up alcohol was so huge to me. It was 161 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: like my best friend, my boyfriend, my comfort thing I 162 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: turned to, and I wanted to celebrate the thing I 163 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: turned to, and I wanted to commiserate. So I was 164 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: willing to go to a meeting to talk about drug use, 165 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: but not to talk about alcohol. And I turned up 166 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: at this meeting and I and like it was a 167 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: sort of anonymous fellowship meeting and a recovery group, and 168 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: I didn't really understand the rules, so I like interrupted 169 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: midway and I was like, can I just ask the question. 170 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: Everyone here wants to give up drugs and cocaine, right, 171 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: but does everyone still drink or like want to deal 172 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: with alcohol? And everyone there apart from one person said 173 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: we've given up alcohol, and the one person who hadn't 174 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: who was still drinking, was only three days clean from 175 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: cocaine anyway, because every time she was drinking, she was 176 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: just using. And they said, and I'm so pleased they did, 177 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: because I think, if you give me any fades of gray, 178 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: you give me the tiniest inch, I will run with it. 179 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: That would be another two years of me drinking. And 180 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: they were so clear, they were like, if you want 181 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: to sort yourself out, it's not just drugs that you're 182 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: a problem. You need to get rid of all mind 183 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: altering substances. So I decided that I was going to 184 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: give up drinking as well. And initially it was like 185 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 1: each day, I'd like do a countdown of the hours, 186 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: and I'd wonder at what point I was going to drink, 187 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: And when it got to like eight o'clock, I'd feel 188 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: so relied because I'm like, it's almost done. I can 189 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: almost count this as a whole day I've done sober. 190 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: And the days felt so long because I wasn't hungover 191 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: in the mornings anymore, and I wasn't just going out 192 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: to drink in the eatings anymore. There were so many 193 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: little milestones that weren't a tall little like meeting up 194 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: with my friends. I was about a week so over 195 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: the first time I met up with my friends, and 196 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: I remember we went bowling, so we organized something that 197 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: wasn't like surrounded by alcohol, So we were in this 198 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: like bowling alley whatever, And then afterwards we went to 199 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: a cafe like a restaurant and sat outside and ordered 200 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: a drink, and my friend ordered an alcoholic drink, and 201 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: I remember just sitting there and she knew but also 202 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: she knew that I was going to be surrounded by 203 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: alcohol in this journey, you know, like I was going 204 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: to go for dinner and go to people's houses, so 205 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: like in this sort of controlled environment, she sort of 206 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: ordered this drink and she was conscious that she'd done it. 207 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: And I remember just sitting staring at this drinking, thinking 208 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: like am I gonna just grab it? Or am I 209 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: like and just being so aware that this thing was there. 210 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: It took me so long. It took me a long 211 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: time to sort of feel comfortable. But that's kind of 212 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: the drinking story. And it was five days after I 213 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: made that decision that I was going to get sober. 214 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: I walked into a church and I asked for their help, 215 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: and they were amazing and they prayed with me and 216 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: they sat with me, and they just let me be 217 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: the absolute broken wreck that I was of a new 218 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: person in recovery. The sort of combination of other people 219 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: who were in sobriety and people in church, you know, 220 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: those two communities really helped me out in a way 221 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: that I hadn't experienced before and meant that I was 222 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: able to get and stay. So had you grown up 223 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 1: in church or was that kind of your first time 224 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: I had. Yeah, my mum's a Christian and she took 225 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: me to church and I was allowed to stop going 226 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: when I was about thirteen. But I never liked it. 227 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: I alway thought it was quite judgmental. I thought it 228 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: was a series of rules. Don't smell, don't drink, don't 229 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: have sex. That's what a good Christian does. If you 230 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: do any of those things, you're bad and wrong, you know, 231 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: because that's kind of what they taught the youth groups. 232 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 3: So I didn't really get it and I didn't really 233 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 3: like it. 234 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: And I kind of probably would have always said I 235 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: believed in God, but what God was and who God was? 236 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: You know, I wasn't really clear on and I didn't 237 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: really understand the Bible or get the Jesus things. 238 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 3: So there was a lot to learn when I came back. 239 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 2: And what did you I mean, this is a loaded 240 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 2: question that we could spend hours our, but give us 241 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 2: some of the highlights of what you learned and what 242 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 2: he did in your life. 243 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it took me a while to sort 244 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: of get the Jesus thing. And the first thing I did, 245 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: I was given this Bible at this women's Bible study 246 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: and I called my mum and I said, they're give 247 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: me this Bible. 248 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 3: I'm going to read it. 249 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: She was like, don't start from Genesis. Whatever you do, 250 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 1: just read Matthew first, Mark, Luke, and John the Gospels, 251 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: and that's the story of Jesus life. And it's the 252 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 1: story of Jesus life four times over, each told from 253 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: a different person's perspective, and just just work out what 254 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: Jesus did first, right, Yeah, And I didn't know that, like, 255 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: no one told me that. So I was reading it 256 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: and I remember getting to like Matthew six, so like 257 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: quite early on where he's talking about not worrying and like, 258 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: you know, how loved you are, and how you don't 259 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: need to worry, and the days are going to look 260 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: after themselves and the next day's going to look after itself, 261 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: and you can kind of rest in and trust in him. 262 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: And I remember thinking like, WHOA, Like, this isn't just 263 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: big boats and you know hair that makes people strong, 264 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's not just like I thought of it 265 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: as just some interesting, fantastical fairy stories. You know, there's 266 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: some stuff that is relevant to me and comforting to 267 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: me right now. And I sort of went on that 268 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: journey and I carried on reading, and for me it 269 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: was as I got to grips with how little Jesus 270 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: asks versus how much he gives, like that sort of outrageous, unwarranted, 271 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: complete grace and generosity somebody who really felt like they 272 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: were a really terrible person, who'd made awful decisions, who'd 273 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: let people down, who had done so much wrong. You know, 274 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting to feel love walking back into a church. 275 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: I was expecting to build judgment. Yeah, And actually, like 276 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: the people there loved me, and they really pointed that 277 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: love to Jesus. 278 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 3: Now consistency as well, Like. 279 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: I, you know, always wanted to be popular and I 280 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 1: always felt like if I did the wrong thing, and 281 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 1: to an extent, I was shown this in school by 282 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 1: you know, teenage girls, and I was nasty as well. 283 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: Everyone's just horrible. You couldn't pay me to go back 284 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 1: to like a girl's school again. You know, you get 285 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: something wrong and you're out. You're outed from the group. 286 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: It doesn't last very long, but if it's sort of 287 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: death like your friends aren't talking. Yes, these people in 288 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: both recovery and in church, they just showed up and 289 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: they didn't stop showing up when I showed an ugly 290 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: side of myself. They let me be who I was. 291 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: They gave me space to grow, and they just kept 292 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: showing me love. And that was spectacular for me. I 293 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: love that so much. 294 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 3: Babe. 295 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 2: We'll be back right after a quick word from our sponsors. Babe, 296 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: Can I pause us just for a moment. If you're 297 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 2: listening to this and thinking I don't want to do 298 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 2: this alone anymore, I want to tell you about the 299 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 2: love Life Sober community. This is the space where the 300 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 2: podcast turns into real connection and real support inside the community. 301 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 2: We gather weekly for live connection calls where you can listen, share, 302 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 2: or simply be present. There's a beautiful leadership team holding 303 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 2: this space with wisdom and care, a dedicated prayer request 304 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 2: area where you can be covered, regular masterclasses led by 305 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 2: expert guests, and even a worship music playlist to help 306 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 2: you reconnect when your nervous system needs it. Inside the community, 307 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 2: there's also a dedicated coaching space called Truevine for women 308 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 2: who want even deeper support. The love Life SOB community 309 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 2: is a place to connect with like minded women and 310 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 2: open up in a way you might not be able 311 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 2: to in your church or small group. This space was 312 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 2: created specifically for women who are questioning their relationship with 313 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 2: alcohol and who want the kind of freedom that. 314 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 3: Can only be found in Jesus. 315 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: All the details to join us are at the link 316 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 2: in the show notes. I can't wait to meet you 317 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 2: all right, let's jump back into the episode. One of 318 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 2: the things I would love to talk about is that 319 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 2: the length of the connection and relationships that you are 320 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 2: able to have with people in your kind of whatever 321 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 2: group that looks like. And I see that too in 322 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 2: the Gals small coaching group. And some of these gals 323 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 2: have been with me for three years and I know 324 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: the depths of their story and how God has continued 325 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 2: to show up for them and it is just the 326 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 2: most beautiful thing. So talk a little bit about that, 327 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 2: and talk also a little bit about the program that 328 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 2: you ran. 329 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 3: It was at your church. 330 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, so about maybe two three years into sobriety, I 331 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: was a new church in West London and we set 332 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: up a recovery course and that ran for like five years. 333 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 3: We ran it seven. 334 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: Times amazing, Yeah, And I think it was in doing 335 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: that and then also in my sort of sponsor sponsor relationship, 336 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: both with the people who I sponsor, like mentor coach. 337 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: You know, lots of people have different formats for that 338 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: sort of relationship, and then the people who's sort of 339 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: watching over me, who are like there for me and 340 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: who sort of mentor sponsor me as well. You know, 341 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: you really start to see the value and the depth 342 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: of those relationships, particularly with people who have experienced the 343 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: same or similar thing. And I was fortunate enough to 344 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: find that in some Christian women as well. I you know, 345 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: had my first sponsor wasn't Christian, but after that I 346 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: had a sponsor who was. It is the consistency, like 347 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: we had a check in every week and we did 348 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: not miss that, and there would be multiple check ins 349 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: midweek if someone was going through something and actually like 350 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: showing someone that I'm gonna always show up, even when 351 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: they confess something to me that they can game around 352 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: that they wish they'd never done, that has really been 353 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: a cloud over their life, even when sometimes they're a 354 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: bit inconsistent and they don't show up, or they've had 355 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: a terrible day and they don't bring their sort of 356 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: best self. Having people do that for me and being 357 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: able to pass that on and also allowing allowing those imperfections, 358 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: li see think it completely transformed my life and being 359 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: both a recipient and the person sort of offering that 360 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: both of those It up so much if you find 361 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: that when you do, when you sort of connect with 362 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: the women, even if whether you're being coached or coaching, yes, 363 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: you just take. You just feel so full from the 364 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: opportunity to connect so deeply with someone. 365 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: On nund percent, I was just thinking about I have 366 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 2: I'm starting a forty day fast leading it through my 367 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 2: book on Monday, and I have a team of fifteen 368 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 2: gals and a lot of us know each other because 369 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 2: we've been working on this for a while, but there's 370 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 2: some newbies and one of the newbies hopped in the 371 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 2: chat and she was like, I just want to get 372 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 2: to know you, gal. 373 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 3: She asked me. 374 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 2: She's like, can I just put some questions in because 375 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 2: I'm new And I was like, yeah, of course, go 376 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 2: for it. And she asks like what is one of 377 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 2: your favorite childhood memories? And the stuff that came back 378 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 2: was just like so deep and like so good and 379 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 2: so vulnerable and so open. And she sent me a 380 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 2: message on the side She's like, I'm maybe I should 381 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 2: have started with, like what's your favorite ice cream? And 382 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 2: I was like, no, no, no, Like we are so 383 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 2: far past that when we are doing this work, like, 384 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 2: let's go so radically vulnerable as fast as we can. 385 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, because that's how we connect. Yeah. 386 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: The thing is when you're connecting over something like this, 387 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: over a desire to stop drinking. Like sometimes in church, 388 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: I feel like people forget that they're there because they're broken. Yeah, 389 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: they sort of they're like, oh, you know, I've brought 390 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 1: my kids to church on Sunday because that's what you 391 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: do because I'm a good Christian, and oh, I'll pray 392 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: for you, no problem. And like I remember someone in 393 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: Recovery Women who came on board as a leader of 394 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: one of the groups on the recovery course. She was 395 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: like maybe ten years sober, so she was doing so well. 396 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: She was like, every time they say do you want prayer? 397 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: Why doesn't everyone run to the front, always need prayer. 398 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: There's no moment where you are not in need of prayer, Like, 399 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: don't be too proud, but free prayer. Someone wants to 400 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: pray for you, Like we should be rushing those people. 401 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: And that's just so real and honest. I find that 402 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: almost like you know, in those sort of recovery circles 403 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: or those you know, small groups or however, people are 404 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: sort of plustered together, the honesty there. 405 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 3: It can be more church than church. Uh huh, yes, yeah. 406 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 3: I don't know about you. 407 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: But now when I go to a party, it's like 408 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 2: having the small talk talking about the weather. 409 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 3: I just can't, like it's so hard for me now. Yeah, 410 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 3: oh a holiday, summer holiday sounds lovely. Yeah yeah, give 411 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 3: me something real, give me something real. What's your trauma? 412 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 3: Let's hear it. Oh my gosh. 413 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're twelve months alcohol free and drug free 414 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 2: and that's so awesome. 415 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 3: What has been hard? 416 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 2: And I want you to say why it's hard because 417 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 2: I'm sure listeners can relate and you can offer them 418 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 2: hope about some of the things that have stood out 419 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 2: as hard for you. 420 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, so coming up to twelve years, I'm just shy 421 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: of like eleven eleven years, nine months or so, and yeah, 422 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: it's such an interesting journey. I think that I had 423 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: so many expectations and very early doors, I expected that 424 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: it was just going to be miserable, and it was, 425 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't going to be able to socialize 426 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: like I was before. And then I sort of got 427 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: through the very early stages where I felt constantly unsure 428 00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: as to whether or not I was going to relapse, 429 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: and I realized, like, Okay, I think I can do this. 430 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,719 Speaker 1: I think that I can still make jokes, and I 431 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: think I can still dance, and I think I can 432 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: still be fun and I can still stay out late 433 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: ish I would say, I don't like to say out 434 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: that late, but maybe that's also because I've gone older, 435 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: but you know, I can I And actually now I 436 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: kind of think that, you know, I realized in maybe 437 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: the first year or two that that was an expression 438 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: of my character that was always there. 439 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, I felt I needed alcohol for yes, it was. 440 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really cool to realize that the best 441 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: bits of that, the ones that aren't annoying and slurring 442 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: and slobbering on other people and insisting that everyone dance 443 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: and do what I want, better parts of that, which 444 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: were more fun to be around, I still had sober 445 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: But then I also think that I thought I looked 446 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: at people who were like ten years and I was like, 447 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: that's easy, you know, and actually, like I in many ways, 448 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: it is easier because you know, I never take anything 449 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: for granted, and I really will continue to always be 450 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: vigilant with my recovery. I never say I'm recovered, but 451 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: I don't experience the same sort of cravings. I've got 452 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 1: systems in place now and protective systems and that sort 453 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: of you know, where before the groove where I drank 454 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: was so deep and it was the main one, you know, 455 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 1: the groove where I don't drink is just as deep now. 456 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: But I guess I wasn't prepared that when pain hits, 457 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: when go through a breakup, when you're bereathed or something 458 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: like that, actually like that can really rock you. And 459 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: when it gets really hard, there's still a part of 460 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: me that goes you could just hit that big red 461 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: button and none of them feel like a problem anymore. 462 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: And obviously I know that that may be true, but 463 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: maybe true for one hour or like night. But it's funny. 464 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: It's funny how longstanding that feeling that there's always there's 465 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 1: always an emergency exit which will take me, Like it'll 466 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: be one of those emergency exits in a cartoon where 467 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: you're at the top of the skyscraper and you open 468 00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: it and you're like home free and then you just fall. 469 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, oh my gosh, yes, great analogy. 470 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: But like you know, and I have to keep reminding 471 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: myself like that's no way out, Like you can sit 472 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: in this pain and learn to sit in the pain 473 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: and not reach for anything else, either to reach for 474 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: God and not go eat through it, or you know, 475 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: text a guy or you know, distract yourself with work 476 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: or something and just to sit down and go, I 477 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: feel this, but like and God is with me, Like 478 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: it's her. 479 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 3: This amazing thing. 480 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: It came from Brene Brown first by actually heard a 481 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 1: pastor repeating it, and her thing was that she thought 482 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: that her faith would be like an epidural feel pain anymore. Yeah, 483 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: and like she'd just be anathetized to the pain. That actually, 484 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: what she's realized is that God and her faith is 485 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: the midwife, and the midwife doesn't take away the pain 486 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: of childbirth. They're there, She's there with you before she's 487 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: she's done this, before she knows you'll get to the 488 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: other side of that. A safe, professional pair of hands 489 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 1: who is not going anywhere until this is done and 490 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,919 Speaker 1: you're and you're done with this process, and trusting in 491 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: God to be that midwife, trusting that this pain is temporary, 492 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: Trusting I don't need to reach for whatever is previously 493 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: I thought helped me. That has been something that I've 494 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: grown into and it's taken me years to just allow 495 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: myself to feel pain without wishing for some for my 496 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: solutions of the past or grabbing onto something else. 497 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a I've never heard. I'd never heard 498 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 2: that before. I love that epidural midwife analogy. That's so great. 499 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 3: I remember. 500 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 2: I think it was maybe a year and a half 501 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 2: after I was alcohol free and I lost some very 502 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 2: good girlfriend of mine. The very first thought I had 503 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 2: was I'm going to drive to the bar. I was 504 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 2: in Florida at the time, and I was going to 505 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 2: sit down and have like a massive glass of white 506 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 2: wine to make it go away. And but I also 507 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 2: remember observing that thought and just thinking, I've done that before. 508 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 2: I did that a lot when my mom died, you know, 509 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 2: and I know where that leads, and it goes away 510 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 2: very very temporarily. But even with this last really hard 511 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 2: thing I just went through, which I was talking to 512 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 2: you about before, it's that feeling of really just wanting 513 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 2: to hit the eject button escape because it's so so hard. 514 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 2: But as you said, that God is with you in it, 515 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 2: and they also now that I'm kind of through it, 516 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 2: I'm grateful for the experience because now I can turn 517 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 2: around to the gals in the community and be like 518 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 2: I relate. I relate to wanting to hit the eject button, 519 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 2: you know, and but you don't have to because He 520 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 2: is with you exactly exactly. 521 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,199 Speaker 1: And that's that's when you know. That's the sort of 522 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: signal of your getting healthier, isn't it? Because Okay, the 523 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: thought comes and I remember someone saying to me, like, 524 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: you can't necessarily control your first thought, but you get 525 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: to control your second. Yes, the thought comes like, okay, great, 526 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: that glass of wine is going to totally sort this out, 527 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: but you're second thought being like, I've done that before, 528 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 1: and that is no solution. And there are healthy things 529 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: that really nurture and nourish my soul that won't take 530 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: the pain away, but that will guide me through it, 531 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 1: and I'm going to turn to those instead. 532 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is why we geek out a lot on 533 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 2: this podcast in this community about the neuroscience and how 534 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 2: God actually said it all first, right, about taking your 535 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 2: thoughts captive and bringing them to the light of truth 536 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,199 Speaker 2: and not being conformed to the world and all of 537 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 2: these things that we now modern neuroscience is actually catching 538 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 2: up with, and how we can observe our thoughts and 539 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 2: that our feelings aren't facts and all of this good stuff. 540 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 2: And I believe that that is one of the coolest 541 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,719 Speaker 2: lessons that we get to learn from our alcohol journeys 542 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 2: that then applies to everything else in our lives. Because 543 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 2: I don't want to say it's so easy, but it's 544 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,119 Speaker 2: maybe easier to recognize a craving voice as something that 545 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 2: is like outside of you that you're like, wait a minute, 546 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 2: I don't have to do that, right, And then when 547 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 2: you get good at that, you can take all the 548 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 2: other thoughts captive the anxious thoughts or whatever they are 549 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 2: that are causing you the spiral. 550 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: So yeah, there's so much good there. And that's I 551 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: mean with like the neuroscience stuff. That's when I'm talking 552 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: about the like deep groove that I goes to that 553 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: neural pathway that I've reinforced over and over again, like 554 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: oh this hurts or your board, or you're lonely or 555 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: you're sad, So you're going to drink in time and recovery. 556 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 3: You go. 557 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: So you're gonna, you know, meditate, you're gonna pray, you're 558 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 1: gonna reach out to a good friend, and that's sort 559 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: of healthy. Each time you do that, you're reinforcing that 560 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: neural pathway. Someone said to me the other day that 561 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: your brain doesn't know what's true. It knows what you 562 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: train it. We can know that truth comes from the Bible, 563 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: and the truth is that that alcohol is not gonna help. 564 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,959 Speaker 1: Your brain is only going to know that when you 565 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: train it, when you reinforce that over and over again. 566 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 567 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's you know, the renewing of your mind. 568 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: It's in the Bible, God says it. 569 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And gathering the d to enforce that new 570 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 2: neural pathway is hard in the beginning, right. I was 571 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,479 Speaker 2: just on a group call with some gals, and it 572 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 2: was like gals talking about having all this data, all 573 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 2: this these past vacations or Christmases or what have you 574 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 2: about what it looked like with alcohol, but having no 575 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 2: information or data or anything in your subconscious filing cabinet 576 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 2: of what it looks like without alcohol. And so that 577 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 2: can be difficult. But as you said, as you train 578 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 2: the groove, as you rewire the pathway, it gets easier. 579 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 2: And so that is such a beautiful piece of hope 580 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 2: for people. 581 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there's so there's so much hope. With Jesus. 582 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 2: We'll be back right after a quick word from our sponsors. Okay, 583 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 2: let's talk about serving alcohol in church. I'm really excited 584 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 2: about that. I know, where do you want to start? 585 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 3: I can't. 586 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: I'm gottenn issue for me, Like, I just feel like 587 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: church is amazing, amazing community. The way that it is 588 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: is just a space where people can meet, they can 589 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: have that sort of third space away from home and 590 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: work and be around other people. And when it's done right, 591 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,959 Speaker 1: my goodness, how spectacular. And I like, I really resist 592 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: sort of you know, the church is Jesus's bride. And 593 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: if I, you know, go and chat to your husband 594 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: and absolutely slate you, he'll be like, sorry, that's. 595 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 3: Yea, now what he's here to take down the church. 596 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,239 Speaker 1: But at the same time, what I have seen is 597 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: that I think we freak out as church and we 598 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 1: go we're yeah, we're crazy. 599 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 3: Is we're not fun, And then when we go like, 600 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 3: but hang on, we're normal. 601 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: We're a call, we have parties, we host events, we 602 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: do social things, we drink, and I think that some 603 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: churches almost use it as a way to be like, 604 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: come along, have a beer, have a beer in a 605 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: bacon butty, or go to the pub after the service, 606 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: or or we're serving wine after the service and stuff 607 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: like that, and I just I think it is so unnecessary. 608 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: And when I was we had lots of conversations when 609 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: we started running this recovery program for people who struggled 610 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: not just with alcohol, with their alcohol use, but with 611 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: like lots of different things. Alcohol was one of the 612 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: main things. Of course, it was that people came to 613 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: talk to us about and I said to like our 614 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: church leaders, like you're serving after one service there was 615 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: like a social in the building, in the actual sort 616 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: of church where we'd been sitting worshiping, and they were 617 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: like handing round trays of wine, and I said, I 618 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: can't invite someone who's come to our recovery program the 619 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: church because they will not expect that. They would expect 620 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: someone to turn up with a tray of wine and 621 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: put it under their nose and say, would you like 622 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: a glass of wine, because they think they're in at 623 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: least if you walk into a pub, you. 624 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,959 Speaker 3: Know what you're expecting. Yeah, years ago. 625 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: So a lot of the Christian festivals and conferences have bars, 626 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: whether they said not all of them, but lots of 627 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: them have bars, or they serve alcohns. Sometimes that can 628 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: be like the Social Hub, which I think is of 629 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: a shame. But I went to one which is a 630 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: little bit smaller called Shift Festival, which tends to be 631 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: for people in their twenties and increasingly in their fir 632 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: ties as well. But and given that that was a demographic, 633 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: I assumed everyone would be drinking. But they said in 634 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: their initial email, you know, like, actually we're an alcohol 635 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: free site. We'd appreciate if he didn't bring alcohol. And 636 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: they serve lots of really lovely alcohol free options, and 637 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: they'd really put some thought into it. And the first 638 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: time I was there, I remember thinking like, and they 639 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: had like a DJ on the sort of Saturday night, 640 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: the big night, you know, like after the worship, and 641 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: if that's the big night they had a DJ, I 642 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: remember thinking, like, what's the point when there's no alcohol? Like, 643 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: and I remember seeing one girl particular like limbering up, 644 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: like stretching her by the dance and it absolutely kicked off. 645 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: Everyone was dancing, everyone was jumping around. There was one 646 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: girl doing the worm, someone did a backflip, and I'm 647 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: like standing there like everyone here is so imagine every party. 648 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 3: Was like this. 649 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: Every Christian party was like this what we could tell 650 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: people and actually, like you like, there was so God 651 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: was so there. It just it and I could just 652 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: breathe without worrying someone was gonna get too drunk or 653 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: someone's gonna spill that drink on me. I'm gonna get 654 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: red wine down me, I was gonna have to rinse 655 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: it off before the smell sid getting to me. We're 656 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: doing this all sober, and I was like, if every 657 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: church did this, Yeah, this is a taste of Kingdom. 658 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 2: You know, Yes, yeah, one hundred percent. Oh my gosh, babe, 659 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 2: I could say so much. I was at a service 660 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 2: my teen daughter, who's almost sixteen, likes to go to 661 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 2: a church. Well I won't say the name of it, 662 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 2: but because apparently one of the boys from the summer 663 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 2: I turn pretty goes there, and so she likes to 664 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 2: commute in. 665 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 3: And we're all being commuting. 666 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 2: Together and the pastor was like, anyone knew, you know, 667 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 2: meet me at the pub after first rounds on me 668 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 2: And I was like, oh no, And it just goes 669 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 2: back to what you were saying about not being able 670 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 2: to invite someone, and I think it goes to that verse. 671 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 2: I think it's in Romans about not causing a stumbling block. 672 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 2: And that's what I don't think the church really gets 673 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 2: is that it can be a stumbling block, not even 674 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 2: just for the peaceeople that are for the gray area, 675 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 2: people like moms like me that were just like drinking 676 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 2: at home or on a night out too much. And 677 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 2: it's still because of the property of what alcohol is 678 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 2: as a substance is highly addictive. You know, I've and 679 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 2: it's happened to me I think two or three times 680 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 2: going up for communion and it's wine and it doesn't 681 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 2: bother me. It tastes awful and it burns my throat. 682 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 2: It's also happened to me at Soho House when I 683 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 2: ordered a virgin pecante and got a normal one. 684 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: You know. 685 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 2: But I'm just like, why if that's going to cause 686 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 2: someone that maybe wouldn't have known. 687 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 3: That it was alcoholic. 688 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: You know. 689 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 2: It's just this is supposed to be about observing Christ's 690 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 2: sacrifice for us. Why are we Why if there could 691 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 2: be even the slightest possibility that it would cause someone 692 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 2: to stumble? What is the point? And that's what I 693 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,959 Speaker 2: think it is. I don't think there's that awareness. 694 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 3: I agree. 695 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: I don't think that there's that awareness either. And I 696 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: think also I've said to a couple of people, I 697 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: think people find it surprising. But actually, like when alcohol 698 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: is unexpected for me, if someone tells me this is 699 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: an alcohol free space, and then there's how but it 700 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: causes me discomfort that measconnected from whatever the purpose of 701 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: that outing was, and the purpose of the spouting to 702 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: church is Jesus right, and it is? 703 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 3: It is a distraction. 704 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: And I'll go up and I'll say, I'll check if 705 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: I'm in a new church. Obviously, at my church, I 706 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: know how they do it, and they've got a separate 707 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: cup for alcohol free, and I'll go to that cup. 708 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: But if I'm in a new church or just visiting, 709 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: I'll check with someone and say is that alcohol? And 710 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: if it is, I'll just go up and take the 711 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,239 Speaker 1: bread and say no, thank you. But like I know 712 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: that if I took a sip and it was like alcohol, 713 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: or some places have like fortified wines like port that's 714 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: really strong, I wouldn't be thinking about what Jesus did 715 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: for me on the Cross. I'll be thinking like, oh, 716 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: my goodness, I've just drug alcohol. Is that okay? I 717 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: can I feel it? And I just be totally taken 718 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: away from it. So for me, like being around alcohol 719 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: is totally manageable and I can totally do it. But 720 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,959 Speaker 1: it's like taking a punch in the stomach. And I'm like, 721 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: in this analogy, I'm like a boxer who is trained 722 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: to take these punches in the stomach and they don't hurt, 723 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: and I tense up and I take the punch and 724 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: sometimes a punch is harder than I expect, and I'll 725 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: be like, oh, okay, I've taken that punch. That's fine. 726 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: Those punches aren't knocking me over. But I've had to 727 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,399 Speaker 1: train and I have to tense up. I don't want 728 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: to tense up in church, you know. I just want 729 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: to be free. And when I know I'm in a 730 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: place that is completely alcohol free, like that conference, that 731 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: festival where they're like no alcohol at all, I just 732 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: get to take a breath, and I know that is 733 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: one thing that I don't have to be tensed up for, 734 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: and I can just enjoy this for what it is. 735 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: And that is a huge gift, and I don't think 736 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: it's a gift that we give out enough as church. 737 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with everything that you just said, Babe. 738 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 2: That's so good and so so true, Like we would 739 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 2: never just you know, start handing out cigarettes or cocaine 740 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 2: something like that. Yeah, it's just it's it's we don't 741 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 2: I don't think we know. And we're getting better I 742 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 2: think as a society, both in the US and the 743 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 2: UK about this. But I just think, is that lack 744 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 2: of kind of knowledge and understanding, And so I think 745 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 2: the fact that you and I are having these conversations 746 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 2: and doing the work that we do hopefully will just 747 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 2: help get that word out. 748 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 3: I mean still to this day. It was one. 749 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 2: I think it was the very first substack I wrote. 750 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 2: But it was about muled wine in a Christmas service 751 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 2: and like, why why do we need why does it 752 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 2: have to be alcoholic? Why it's still the most popular 753 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 2: article one of the art. 754 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: I wrote an article on mold wine at Christmas and 755 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,320 Speaker 1: it was called like, no, I don't think you should 756 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,360 Speaker 1: serve mold wine at your Carol service. And it was 757 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: on a Christian I think it was Women Alive, which 758 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 1: is premiere as women's magazine. Yeah, and it like got 759 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: sent around everywhere. People talk to me about it all 760 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: the time. Church was talking about it all the time. 761 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,720 Speaker 1: It's so funny how it's such a challenge when really 762 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: it just seems so straightforward to me, Like, yeah, Jesus 763 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: did drink wine, but in a different day and in 764 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: different contexts, And I just can't imagine him thinking, yeah, 765 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: go on, get a bit tipsy in church, right Why 766 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: doesn't matter? What doesn't matter what the people who aren't 767 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: comfortable with that right now? You wouldn't want us not 768 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,319 Speaker 1: to cause anybody else to even think about thinking about 769 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 1: anything else but him in truture. 770 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's so good. 771 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,879 Speaker 2: Can you leave our listeners with just one tiny new 772 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 2: action and it can be anything alcohol or not alcohol related, 773 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 2: and then please tell everybody where they can find you, 774 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 2: and I'll link everything obviously in the show notes. 775 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: I think I think we should send a letter, an 776 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: actual written letter, okay. And I think that could be 777 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,280 Speaker 1: a friend who is on a journey with their drinking, 778 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: who's maybe doing a forty day fast like you recommend 779 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: and you talk about or something to encourage them with that. 780 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: Or it could just be someone who like may actually 781 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 1: really need a little bit of hope, little bit of encouragement. 782 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 3: At the moment. 783 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: But I think that we've made everything so convenient and 784 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: so quick and easy and short term that actually, when 785 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: I get post, when someone's like, they take in the 786 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: time to say, like, I'm thinking of you, I'm praying 787 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 1: for you. Here's a Bible verse, here's an encouragement for 788 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: what you're doing this year, or what you're doing with 789 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: your sobriety journey or whatever it is. It doesn't have 790 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: to be that or how you're raising your kids or 791 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: how you're showing up at church, Like, I just want 792 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: to tell you I see that, and that is so great, 793 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: and you know, and and take the time to write 794 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: that and stamp it and post it. I just think 795 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,919 Speaker 1: that that process. I think that there's like a there's 796 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 1: a spiritual practice in it. And like even if we 797 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: just did that like once a month or something, it 798 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: brings so much and it feels so special for the 799 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 1: person who receives it. So that would be my little 800 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: suggestion of it. And yeah, and you know, to keep 801 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: track of what I'm doing and writing and talking about 802 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: and my sort of sobriety journey and journey with alcohol. 803 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: I mean, I've got a website which is Laurenwindow dot 804 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 1: com and I'm on the sort of all the social 805 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: media things. Instagram tends to be where I post most 806 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: and I'm at Laurenwindle Underscore, so I hope to see 807 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:46,839 Speaker 1: people over there. 808 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:47,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 809 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 2: Oh, thanks, babe. I'm so glad we finally got to 810 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 2: have this conversation. I think what you're doing is so cool. 811 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 2: And keep shining your right right light for Jesus. 812 00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:58,800 Speaker 3: Thanks babe. 813 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 2: All right, we will see next week. Thanks Gal, Thank 814 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 2: you for spending this time with me on Love Life Sober. 815 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 2: If today's conversation stirred something in your heart, don't rush 816 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,400 Speaker 2: past it, take it to prayer. If you're feeling ready 817 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 2: for deeper connection and support, I'd love to invite you 818 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 2: into the love Life Sober community, a grace filled, shame 819 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 2: free space where real connection grows and lasting change takes root. 820 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 2: You can find the link to join us in the 821 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 2: show notes. Love Life Sober is part of the Life 822 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,879 Speaker 2: Audio podcast Network, where faith centered podcasts help you grow 823 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,439 Speaker 2: deeper in your walk with Christ. You can find more 824 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,839 Speaker 2: faith centered podcasts at lifeaudio dot com. Until next time, 825 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 2: be gentle with yourself, stay curious, and trust God's promises. 826 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 3: He has freedom waiting for you