1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 2: This is Donna Jones and you are listening to That's 3 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 2: just what I needed. Hey, friend, If you've ever been 4 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 2: in a conversation where you've walked away thinking, Wow, that 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 2: was just what I needed. You know how life giving 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 2: that can be, Well, that's what this podcast is all about. 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 2: We're women who want to know, love, and follow God 8 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: in our real lives, but sometimes wonder just how to 9 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 2: do it. So each week we'll talk about what following 10 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: God looks like in the midst of daily demands and 11 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 2: crazy cultural chaos. Because this isn't just what we need, 12 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 2: it's actually exactly. 13 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: What we need. 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: Hey, hey, my friend, and welcome back to the podcast. 15 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 2: I have another great show for you today. But before 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 2: we get to that, hey, I want to let you 17 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 2: know where I'm going to be this summer speaking, because 18 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 2: I would love to have you join me. In mid June, 19 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 2: I will be in Oregon, Canon Beach, Oregon, So it's 20 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 2: kind of north Oregon on the coast, beautiful, beautiful little 21 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 2: beach town. So if you're in the Washington area or Oregon, 22 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 2: join me. I would love to have you there. It's 23 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 2: Cannon Beach Christian Conference Center. It's their Women's conference, and 24 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,279 Speaker 2: I'm the keynote speaker. That's I think it's June twelfth 25 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:25,559 Speaker 2: through fourteenth, so you can go on the Cannon Beach 26 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 2: website and find out about that. And then July eighth, 27 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 2: I will be at Seacoast Church in Sandy Ago for 28 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: an evening event. And on July twenty seventh, I will 29 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 2: be at Crossline Church what we call our pop up 30 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 2: Bible Studies, which are just like these one night get 31 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 2: together Bible studies with a large number of women, and 32 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 2: I'll be speaking there on July twenty seventh. And then 33 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,279 Speaker 2: in August, I'm going to be speaking. Oh my goodness, 34 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: you'll have to check out my seeking algaries. I forgetting 35 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: where I'm speaking in August. Oh, and JP and I 36 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 2: are doing a family gave together sometime sometime, I don't 37 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 2: know anyway, you can check my speaking calendar over at 38 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: Donna Jones dot org. And wouldn't that be so fun 39 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 2: if we could see each other face to face? I 40 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 2: would just love it. That's Donna Jones dot org. And 41 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 2: while I'm on this track, if we don't follow each 42 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 2: other on social media, I'm at Donna A. Jones on 43 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: Instagram and Donna Jones, speaker and author on Facebook, and 44 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 2: I would love to connect with you there. Well, today's 45 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: guest has such a unique calling on his life. His 46 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: name is Joe Mayers. This is his second time on 47 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 2: the podcast, and Joe is the founder of a ministry 48 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: called Think Forever. This is such a cool ministry. It's 49 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: really different. It's a ministry that promotes eternal perspective through storytelling, 50 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 2: and so Joe uses his creative gifts to make the 51 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: Bible come alive to just normal people like you and me. 52 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: So help me. Welcome my guest, Joe Mayers. Well, Joe, 53 00:02:58,639 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 2: welcome to the podcast. 54 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having me again. This is awesome. 55 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 2: I know this is round number two. I'm excited to 56 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 2: have you back. Okay, So share with us in the 57 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 2: name of your ministry and a little bit about what 58 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: you do. Yeah. 59 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: So the ministry is called Think Forever. That was sort 60 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: of born out of a desire to help people experience 61 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: daily eternal perspective. And the avenue that I take to 62 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: do that is storytelling and that comes in a few 63 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: different forms. The flagship of the ministry is a one 64 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: man's show that I do called The Bema, which is 65 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: about the Bema judgment Seat of Christ, which is bema 66 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: is just a transliteration of a Greek word and it 67 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: just means judgment seat. And this is a one man 68 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: show about a guy who gets to the end of 69 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: his life and meets Jesus and they talk about things 70 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: that were valuable and things that weren't valuable, sort of 71 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: that would haste, stubble versus gold, silver, precious stones, what 72 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: lasts forever, and things like that. That's where it all started, 73 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: and then it's gone from there into collaborating with other 74 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: creators to make other stories that help to inspire eternal 75 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: perspective in people's minds. And I've found that doing that 76 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: through storytelling is engaging oftentimes in ways that traditional didactic 77 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: preaching can sort of miss people. Not that it's more valuable, 78 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: because I think everybody should sit under good preaching and 79 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: teaching weekly, but sometimes there are these concepts that we 80 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: either allow to become routine and so they just sort 81 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: of go in one ear and out the other, or 82 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: we're unwilling to engage in because they're difficult. And if 83 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: we can do that with a story, it'll skip the head. 84 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: They can get a little hard and go straight to 85 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: the heart, which is oftentimes more open to some of 86 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: these things. 87 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I will attest to the fact that the 88 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 2: first time I saw I actually saw you perform this 89 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 2: one man show, the Bemath, it is understatement to say 90 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: that it literally changed my life, because, I mean, Joe, 91 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 2: I grew up in a Christian home. I've been a 92 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 2: Christian since I was a child. I've been taught about 93 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 2: thinking forever, living for eternity, Heaven, Israel, all of that stuff. 94 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: But you know, it's hard to think forever when we 95 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,559 Speaker 2: live here and now. It's hard to conceptualize that. Right, 96 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 2: even though we believe it, you know, we don't live 97 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: there yet. And what was so beautiful about the Bema 98 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 2: is that, because it's storytelling, you engage with like, oh, oh, 99 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 2: this is what it would look like for me to 100 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: stand before the Lord and he's looking at my life 101 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: and assessing the quality of how I live my life. 102 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 2: I mean, it was like whoa eye opening for me. 103 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, it's a dramatic representation, and the truth is 104 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: we don't know exactly what it's going to look like. 105 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: So this a creative look at it. It's allow your 106 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,679 Speaker 1: mind to go there, to just imagine what it could 107 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: be like, because we don't know exactly what it will be, 108 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: but it will be something. This is the dichotomy, and 109 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: the trap that we can get into is either I'm 110 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 1: gonna live in the future not pay attention to life now, 111 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: or I'm gonna get so caught up in the here 112 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 1: and now that I don't cast my mind to eternity. 113 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: And what I think that the Bema does very well 114 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: is it shows how things now hect eternity, and the 115 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: decisions that we're making every day of the way that 116 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: we conduct ourselves in accordance with scripture, with the things 117 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: that we know that the Lord has given us to 118 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: do here on earth, have an effect down the road. 119 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: And so it sort of ties those two things together, 120 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: where we're not ignoring our daily responsibilities of family and 121 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: community and good work that we've been given to do, 122 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: but we don't get so caught up in the monotony 123 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: of day to day that we forget that we are 124 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: eternal beings who are created in the image of God 125 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: and will last forever. 126 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: And it also helps us understand that the dailiness of 127 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 2: our lives have meaning for forever, because it's our motives 128 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 2: and Okay, let me tell you this funny story. I 129 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 2: don't know why this came to my mind, Joe, but 130 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 2: I haven't thought about this in years. JP and I 131 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 2: were at our very first pastor at I was twenty 132 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: nine years old, and we came to this church that 133 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 2: I really wanted all the women to feel loved and 134 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: cared for and a sense of unity. And so I 135 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 2: decided to have something. I would have it at my 136 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 2: home and it was called Okay, if this does not 137 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 2: date me, it was called a mug and muffin. So 138 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: it was the idea was, you bring the mug, I'll 139 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 2: provide the muffins, and you know, the coffee, Just bring 140 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 2: your coffee mug. And so with all that preparation, you know, 141 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: I wanted to get my house together. We had just 142 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: moved into a brand new house that was a fixer upper, 143 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: and I had just had a Kylie, our second child, 144 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: So you know, I'm like, just had a baby, just 145 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: moved into a new house that was totally in need 146 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: of repairs. I had such a pure, pure heart to 147 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 2: want to serve these women. But as the date started 148 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 2: to get closer, some of the things that needed to 149 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 2: get done on the house weren't getting done, and so 150 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: I was on the phone with a customer service rep 151 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 2: that was like my twenty fifth phone call, and so 152 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: I was losing my marbles about I can't believe you 153 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 2: didn't send this and who can I speak with? And 154 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 2: I was lose in my mind. And so I was 155 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 2: telling a friend about this scenario and how I'd gotten 156 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 2: upset with the customer services. Joe, this is what she said. 157 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 2: She goes, oh, you started off with gold, silver and 158 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 2: precious stones, but you ended up with wood, hay and stubble. 159 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 2: Only a really good friend can tell you that, right, 160 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 2: And I was like what And she was like, well, Donna, 161 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 2: you had such few motives, but then you totally went 162 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: off the rails. And actually that stayed with me for 163 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 2: a long time because it helped me think it wasn't 164 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,719 Speaker 2: just my actions, it was also on my motives and 165 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 2: how I behaved, like all of that matters in our 166 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 2: relationship with the Lord. So crazy story. I don't even 167 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 2: know what made me think of that, but there you go. 168 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's very pertinent because you get saved 169 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: and that's fantastic, but you don't go away. You still 170 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: have your whole life. To live and you're still a person, 171 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: and you still live in the world with everyone else, 172 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: So your daily responsibilities don't go away. You still have 173 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: things to fix on your house, you still have people 174 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: to interact with, you still have customer service calls that 175 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: can be annoying. We just had this whole thing with 176 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 1: our health insurance, switching networks and trying to figure out 177 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: which doctor to go to, and it was just probably 178 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: a couple hours of total phone calls that felt very 179 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: unnecessary to me. But at the end of the day, 180 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: that's just a person who's doing their job on the 181 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: other end of the line, and I started doing this 182 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: thing with them where you know, this was legitimately probably 183 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: the eighth phone call on this particular thing, and calling 184 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: all these different people and starting off and saying, Hey, 185 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: I want you to know I've been on the phone 186 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: for a very long time, and so if I sound 187 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: a little frustrated, I promise it's not at you. It's 188 00:09:58,160 --> 00:09:59,719 Speaker 1: just because I really need to get this done and 189 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: I hope you can help me. And that sort of 190 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 1: eases the tension a little bit. 191 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, yeah, because you know what you did, you 192 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 2: ended up you were gold, silver and precious stones. The 193 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 2: whole time I was not okay. I do want to 194 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 2: ask you though, about the name of your ministry, Think Forever, 195 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 2: because I know that you have had some things in 196 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 2: your life, one thing really in particular that was pretty traumatic, 197 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 2: and I want you to tell us, just briefly about that, 198 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 2: but how that event maybe influenced you in terms of 199 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 2: thinking Forever. 200 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: So yeah, for anybody who's listening who doesn't know me 201 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: or my family's story, at the beginning of twenty twenty two, 202 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: our three month old son passed away very suddenly. It 203 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 1: was something called SIDS, which is an acronym that basically 204 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 1: means sometimes babies die and we don't know why. And 205 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: so you and your family were actually with us through 206 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: that time, walked with us through that And the timing 207 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: of it was actually just a few months after I 208 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: had officially publicly launched this ministry, and so all of 209 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: the work that I had been doing was gearing up 210 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: to speak to people about casting your mind toward eternity, 211 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: having hope in the future, and then suddenly we lost 212 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,719 Speaker 1: our son. And there are a lot of aspects to this, 213 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: but particularly as it works with being a public figure 214 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: in a ministry that talks a lot about heaven. Suddenly 215 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 1: part of me, a physical part of me, was existing 216 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: in that reality. The only connection that I now have, 217 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: you know, aside from you know, physical reminders here, the 218 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: only connection that I have to my son is that 219 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: hope in eternity. And so for me, it's no longer 220 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: a theoretical this is concrete. I have skin in the game. 221 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: My actions, my behavior, my hopes are resting there now. 222 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: It was a difficult time and it was a dark time. 223 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: I took a little bit of time away from public 224 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: activity and things like that. I didn't speak or perform 225 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: for several months after that. But the Lord met me 226 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: in a really interesting way in that because something happens 227 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: when you experience a tragedy, a loss that is just unparalleled, 228 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: and just looking for anything that will soothe everything. And 229 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: my mind, honestly was open to anything in a very 230 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: practical way of Okay, what will make this feel better? 231 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: Will alcohol help? Will drugs help? Will will anything help? 232 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: And the way that the Lord met me was casting 233 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: all of that aside. And it's been the one time 234 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 1: in my life where I was completely assured of my 235 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: faith and the fact that Jesus was there with me 236 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: in the midst of this storm, and he was the 237 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: only rock to cling to. So that's what I did, 238 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: and that's what my family did, and it gave us 239 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: this reassurance and this way to walk through this tragedy 240 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: with our eyes on eternity. Because another son died and 241 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: was raised from the dead, I have hoped to see 242 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: my son again. So when I talk about casting your 243 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 1: mind there, this is not a theory for me. It's 244 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: something that I practice every day and if people are 245 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: struggling to do it, just know that I've been there. 246 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: I am doing the exact same thing. I'm practicing what 247 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: I preach on a daily basis for me and my family, 248 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: and it's worth it. 249 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 2: Wow, that was for somebody to hear that. 250 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: Joe. 251 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 2: It's really interesting. I want to ask you one more 252 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 2: question regarding this. When we come back, we're going to 253 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 2: take a quick break, but I want to continue this 254 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 2: just on the other side of the break. Okay. So, Joe, 255 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 2: you were sharing how the death of Obi, your son, 256 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: you said you have skin in the game now in 257 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 2: eternity because he is there, and because God's son died, 258 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 2: you know that you will see your son again, right, 259 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 2: do you think that for those of us who have 260 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 2: lost loved ones, maybe not a child, but it can 261 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 2: be a parent, or a sibling, or a friend or somebody, 262 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 2: that the Lord, as horrible as that is, and as 263 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 2: that was not ever the created order, as it was 264 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 2: originally designed by God, that God does use that to 265 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 2: help us think about heaven and to fix our hope 266 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 2: on heaven and to seek assurance that we're going to heaven. 267 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 2: You know, how have you seen that God uses that? 268 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: You know, obviously I've had a long time to think 269 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: about this very thing, and ultimately I decided to be 270 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: very careful with assigning the value of God's plan to 271 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: a tragedy. That meaning, it's not good that babies die. 272 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: That's just sin, that's just evil that is in the world. 273 00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: So that's not good. But we do know from scripture 274 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 1: that what the enemy intends for evil, the Lord can 275 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: use for good. So whereas I don't think that there 276 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: was any sort of sense that the Lord says there 277 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: needs to be a greater focus on eternity, and so 278 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to take this child away, I think that 279 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: now in order to honor my son and to bring 280 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: glory to the Lord to walk through the wake of 281 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: this tragedy, of this evil in a way that honors that. 282 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: Here's what I mean is that we're having a conversation now, 283 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: and maybe this can help somebody who has experienced something similar, 284 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: and that's a good that can come in the aftermath. 285 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: But I don't think that it happened so that we 286 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: could have this conversation. I don't know if it's really 287 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: splitting hairs. But I am dedicated to use my experiences 288 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: and my story and the memory of my son to 289 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: the greatest effect possible, with full knowledge that will be 290 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: reunited one day. 291 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 2: Okay, I really love that you said that. I love 292 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 2: that you said you're hesitant to assign meaning, because that 293 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 2: is what I feel like. It's so easy to do 294 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 2: because then it's kind of ties everything up in a 295 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 2: nice little bow. And honestly, life isn't tied up in 296 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 2: a nice little bow. And I love that you said that. 297 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: I think that was really really wise. That's really good. 298 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 2: I brought that up only because just in my own life, 299 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 2: I've lost some really dear friends and then lost my father. 300 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 2: And it's interesting because I never really thought of heaven 301 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 2: that much before losing them, but now I picture them there. 302 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 2: It's like I feel like there's in a lesser degree 303 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 2: than you, but there's a piece of me there, or 304 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 2: like a I don't know, I don't know Joe. It 305 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 2: somehow expanded my mind and my thought. So just having 306 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 2: people that I love there that was just kind of 307 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 2: online mind. But as you have continued, you know, you 308 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 2: do this Beama. You're a podcast and creative storytelling, so 309 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 2: that you bring the life scripture so that people understand 310 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 2: scripture in a whole new way. You also have this 311 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 2: new project that I'm really interested in. Tell us a 312 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 2: little bit about that. 313 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, So last year I finished writing and premiered a 314 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: new show called Zeal which is about the life of 315 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: the apostle Paul. And the premise of this is Paul 316 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: is in prison the night before his execution and he 317 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: has one more captive audience. What is he going to say? 318 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: So it's a one man show again, So I play Paul, 319 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: And basically it's an amalgamation of a lot of the 320 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: stories that we know about his life, as well as 321 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: giving some cultural context to who he was. And these 322 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: are things that we know based on just geography and 323 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: culture at the time. What would it have looked like 324 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: for a young boy who was born in tar to 325 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: rise to the rank that he had within the order 326 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 1: of the Pharisees, And what would his life have looked like? 327 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: And the thing that was in all of my research 328 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: and study, and this was a multi year process before 329 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: us the final script came about, was that Saul of 330 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 1: Tarsus was a deeply passionate person that he from the 331 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: time of his youth was dedicated and zealous for the 332 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: things of the One True God, and originally completely missed 333 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: the boat on Jesus. Probably his timeline didn't actually intersect 334 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: with Jesus because of going back and forth between Tarzars 335 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 1: and Jerusalem from his initial training to becoming a teaching 336 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: rabbi back in his hometown and then getting back to 337 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: Jerusalem and the aftermath, so completely missed that. The route 338 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 1: that I took was that he probably had a lot 339 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: of pride that grew into his life because of his 340 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: skill set and because of how young he was with 341 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: the amount of power that he held. But the thing 342 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: that never changed was the zeal that he had for 343 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: the One True God. And I think the conception that 344 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 1: I had previously was that he's on the road to Damascus. 345 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: Jesus smacks him, knocks him to the ground, completely changes 346 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: him and he's a new person. And then the direction 347 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: of his life completely changes and he is a new 348 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: person in being regenerated through Jesus Christ. But all of 349 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: those skills were already built in, all of the passion 350 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: was already built in. He was this man just pointed 351 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: in the wrong direction. And so in effect, what Jesus 352 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: did was he knocked him down, gave him a new heading, 353 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: and said go and to show how a person's mindset 354 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: and the saving grace of Jesus can take what you 355 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: have been given from birth, the skill set that you've honed, 356 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,719 Speaker 1: and the personality that you have that can be used 357 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: for the Lord. And if he can use somebody like 358 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: Saul of Tarsus to become the apostle Paul, well then 359 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: he can use any of us. Sorry, I got a 360 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: little passionate there, but that was the premise of it. 361 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,360 Speaker 1: And it was a really fun project. And right now 362 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: sort of retooling a little bit of the show to 363 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: make it more mobile, because the initial one that we 364 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: did had this built out set and very specific lighting cues, 365 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: and I want to make it more available for more spaces. 366 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: You know, how do we take this to a lot 367 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: of the places that the BEMA has been Because the 368 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: BEMA is a very mobile, versatile show that can be 369 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: done just about anywhere, and it has been done just 370 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: about anywhere, and so I want this to be available 371 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: in that same way, and so currently sort of retooling 372 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: the set, costume, lighting, the technical aspects so that we 373 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 1: can take this script, this story to more places. And 374 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: the hope is to start doing that again this summer. 375 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 2: Oh okay, that's really good to know. And I just 376 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 2: will piggyback here. So our church has had the BEMA 377 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 2: several times. We had our women's ministry see it, we 378 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 2: had our entire church see it. And I'm really excited 379 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 2: to see this new production called Zeal. So if you're 380 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 2: out there and you're like, hmm, that might be interesting 381 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 2: for my church or my particular ministry that you're part of, 382 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 2: then we're going to give all of Joe's information here 383 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 2: at the end of the show, so you'll know how 384 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 2: to contact Joe. Okay, so one last question, and this 385 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 2: is a personal one for you as you are involved 386 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 2: in these creative ideas and the creative process of storytelling, 387 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 2: in particular this one with the apostle Paul. Since this 388 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 2: is your newest one. Aside from seeing how God takes 389 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 2: our natural personalities, our natural bents and you can use 390 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 2: them for His glory, what was something else that you 391 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 2: were like, Oh, this just this minister to me personally 392 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 2: finding this out or learning about this. 393 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: His timeline is different than people think we think of. 394 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: Part way through acts, he has the road to Damascus, 395 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 1: and then there's some time where he's up in that 396 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: area and he gets some training, and people have different 397 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: ideas of exactly how long that was timeline wise and 398 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: exactly what happened. But he communed with believers there and 399 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: received instruction from the Lord, and then he went and 400 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: united with the other apostles who were down in Jerusalem. 401 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: He got down there and started shaking things up. Immediately 402 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: he went full Saul, because at this point he hadn't 403 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: been called Paul yet. That doesn't happen for another several years. 404 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: He goes full sol mode, which is full steam ahead. 405 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: I'm young, I know how to teach, and in a way, 406 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: the way that I see it is assigning the value 407 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 1: of God's plan to something without knowing exactly what it 408 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: is and starts ruffling feathers, and the other apostles who 409 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: are in Jerusalem essentially say, hey, dude, you're going to 410 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: get everybody killed. You got a chill We can share, 411 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: but we don't have to be inflammatory. And he was 412 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: getting the established leadership, very mad at everyone, and they 413 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: sent him away for ten years. They sent him away, 414 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: they sent him back to Tarsus. So the other apostles, 415 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: this isn't incredibly clear if you're just reading straight through 416 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: the Book of Acts, because he shows up in another 417 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: couple of chapters, but the actual amount of time that 418 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: passes is about ten years where he's in Tarsus alone 419 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: and he's going back to Tarsus. And the last time 420 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: that they had sent him away from Tarsus to Jerusalem, 421 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: it was this bright future. He's going to go and 422 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 1: he's going to be established leadership. He's going to lead 423 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: our people, essentially, and he comes back and he's no 424 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: longer with that group. He is now proclaiming Christ as 425 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: the Messiah. And there's a lot of ideas in terms 426 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 1: of what that would mean for him in his community, 427 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: because the Jewish community in a Greek speaking Roman controlled 428 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 1: area would have been a very tight knit group, and 429 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: what does that mean for him? And so he goes 430 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: and he just becomes a tent maker and he certainly 431 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: shares his faith, but for ten years he's just working. 432 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: But Tarsus is the port city, and so all of 433 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: these analogies that you're seeing him use later in his 434 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: ministry grow up during that time where he is not 435 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: in full time ministry. He is a full time tent maker. 436 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: He's got a lot of soldiers coming through because it's 437 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: a port city. He's got people of different languages and 438 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: cultures coming through. So he's honing his craft and how 439 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: he's going to describe the gospel so that when Barnabas 440 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: comes to him and says, hey, you have a skill 441 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: set to talk to Greeks. We're trying to do this 442 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: church up in Antioch. I need help, Saul is ready 443 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: to go. But as you start to imagine that time 444 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: in his life, it's not hard to think that, well, 445 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,479 Speaker 1: there was a lot of humility that came there, but 446 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: it was also a decade of training before he stepped 447 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: into that full time ministry rule. And if you read 448 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: through the Book of Acts, you think, okay, that was 449 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: a pretty quick transition, and he went down there and 450 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: then they went up to Antioch and they just started going. 451 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: But there's a caesura of his life that is not short, 452 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: essentially from like all of his thirties. He's thinking, well, 453 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,640 Speaker 1: maybe this is it. Maybe the Lord plucked me apart 454 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: and I'm just meant to be a tent maker in 455 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: Tarsus and people come through and I can have lots 456 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: of effect and that's great. But the rest of his 457 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: ministry didn't start for literally ten years, which is crazy. 458 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,959 Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, I bet you that ninety percent of our 459 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 2: listening audience did not know that. I mean I didn't 460 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 2: really know that, So that is crazy. See this is 461 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 2: why storytelling. You know, when you get into this, it 462 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 2: illuminates some things. So maybe some misconceptions that we've had, 463 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 2: you know, and just reading. So okay, Joe, as we're 464 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 2: winding up here, tell our listeners how they can find 465 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 2: you and find all about your ministry. 466 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: Well, everything is on our website thinkfever dot org if 467 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: you like storytelling podcasts. The podcast is called Think Forever, 468 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: and I narrate these stories sort of like short audiobooks. 469 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: We take characters that are lesser known from the Bible 470 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: and church history right career narratives about them, and then 471 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: I'll discuss with the authors the stories as well, so 472 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: we have that. And then of course live performances which 473 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: you can find on the website as well where I'm 474 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 1: going to be. I'm also available for booking for conferences, events, churches, universities, 475 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: things like that. So yeah, anything you want to find 476 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: Think forever dot org. 477 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 2: Great. Well, as I said before, we will put that 478 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 2: information in the show. And I love that podcast idea 479 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 2: because summer's coming up here and a lot of us 480 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 2: are going to be traveling. It'd be really fun to 481 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 2: listen to something like that in the car. Yeah, that's 482 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 2: a great one. I love it. I love it. So Jo, 483 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 2: thank you so much for being on the podcast, sharing 484 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 2: your heart, sharing your vision, your ministry, and helping us 485 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 2: all think forever. 486 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having me. 487 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 2: Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation. I hope it 488 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 2: inspired you to think forever, because we're going to live 489 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 2: forever and so we might as well think forever because 490 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,360 Speaker 2: what we do right now echoes into eternity. And as 491 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 2: a reminder, if we don't already follow each other on 492 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 2: social media, Let's do that. I'mt Donna A. Jones on Instagram, 493 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,719 Speaker 2: Donna Jones, Speaker and author on Facebook, and my friend. 494 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 2: I can't wait to see you next time, for that's 495 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 2: just what I needed.