1 00:00:02,650 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:03,580 --> 00:00:09,350 Speaker 2: Hello, welcome to the Praying Christian Women podcast. I am 3 00:00:09,410 --> 00:00:10,830 Speaker 2: Alana here with Jamie. 4 00:00:10,869 --> 00:00:13,190 Speaker 1: How are you? I'm doing great. How about you? 5 00:00:13,210 --> 00:00:17,150 Speaker 2: All right. We're both a little under the weather, just 6 00:00:17,370 --> 00:00:20,750 Speaker 2: weird headaches, congestion, all kinds of stuff. I'm glad that 7 00:00:20,770 --> 00:00:23,830 Speaker 2: we are both here to record and looking forward to 8 00:00:23,870 --> 00:00:25,070 Speaker 2: today's discussion. 9 00:00:25,489 --> 00:00:29,310 Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. So our discussion today, we're going to 10 00:00:29,330 --> 00:00:33,490 Speaker 1: be talking about kind of sharing the gospel and prayer, 11 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:39,700 Speaker 1: where they overlap, how they work together, pitfalls, excuses, all 12 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:41,900 Speaker 1: the kinds of things like that. And the reason I 13 00:00:42,260 --> 00:00:45,860 Speaker 1: brought this up as a topic was we had a 14 00:00:46,580 --> 00:00:51,010 Speaker 1: sermon on Sunday and part of it was a video 15 00:00:51,570 --> 00:00:55,390 Speaker 1: from Penn, from the comedy act Penn and Teller, or 16 00:00:56,450 --> 00:00:58,850 Speaker 1: actually they're a magic show, I guess, aren't they? They're 17 00:00:58,870 --> 00:01:00,890 Speaker 1: not a comedy. I guess they do magic comedy shows. 18 00:01:01,390 --> 00:01:04,350 Speaker 1: and all kinds of stuff. I've never seen them. I 19 00:01:04,630 --> 00:01:08,700 Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily, I think they're, you know, kind of maybe explicit. 20 00:01:08,900 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 2: I don't know. 21 00:01:09,500 --> 00:01:13,259 Speaker 1: I wouldn't recommend it. I'm not endorsing them. But apparently 22 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: Penn is a self-declared atheist and they played this clip 23 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: of a video and I'm going to link to it 24 00:01:22,050 --> 00:01:24,470 Speaker 1: in our show notes, but you can find it on YouTube. 25 00:01:24,750 --> 00:01:28,430 Speaker 1: And he talks about this man at one of his 26 00:01:28,470 --> 00:01:31,230 Speaker 1: shows who came up to him after the show and 27 00:01:31,860 --> 00:01:35,060 Speaker 1: And he said, you know, I loved your act. He 28 00:01:35,100 --> 00:01:37,140 Speaker 1: was very complimentary. He said, I've been wanting to see 29 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,500 Speaker 1: you guys for a long time. And he ended up 30 00:01:41,060 --> 00:01:44,330 Speaker 1: giving him Gideon's pocket New Testament with Psalms and Proverbs. 31 00:01:45,870 --> 00:01:49,450 Speaker 1: And it's just this five-minute video of him reflecting to 32 00:01:50,110 --> 00:01:54,970 Speaker 1: his followers. And he said, I'm an atheist. I know 33 00:01:55,010 --> 00:01:59,810 Speaker 1: there's no God. But he was so impressed. I think 34 00:01:59,860 --> 00:02:02,780 Speaker 1: the words that he used were, this guy was sane, 35 00:02:03,420 --> 00:02:07,140 Speaker 1: he was kind, and he was just a good man. 36 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:12,780 Speaker 1: And those were the things. And he accepted the New Testament. 37 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,620 Speaker 1: When you've been a Christian for a long time, I 38 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:16,340 Speaker 1: think a lot of times we go to church and 39 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,850 Speaker 1: we hear stuff and the Lord speaks to us. But 40 00:02:18,889 --> 00:02:21,309 Speaker 1: it's not very often that you hear something that you're 41 00:02:21,350 --> 00:02:24,169 Speaker 1: just like, whoa, I have never heard it put that way. 42 00:02:24,970 --> 00:02:28,679 Speaker 1: And he said, I am an atheist. I know there's 43 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,060 Speaker 1: no God. He said, this guy was kind of apologetic. 44 00:02:32,100 --> 00:02:36,030 Speaker 1: He's like, I guess I'm proselytizing to you, but I 45 00:02:36,060 --> 00:02:40,510 Speaker 1: really want you to have this Bible. And he said, 46 00:02:40,530 --> 00:02:44,270 Speaker 1: that guy doesn't need to apologize to me. He's like, 47 00:02:44,790 --> 00:02:48,579 Speaker 1: I don't believe in God, but how much do you 48 00:02:48,620 --> 00:02:52,180 Speaker 1: have to hate someone if you truly believe that you 49 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:57,420 Speaker 1: have the secret to eternal life and You're not going 50 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,340 Speaker 1: to tell someone? Like, how much do you have to 51 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:05,340 Speaker 1: just not care about that person to not even try 52 00:03:05,660 --> 00:03:08,830 Speaker 1: to tell them because it might be socially awkward? And 53 00:03:08,850 --> 00:03:10,930 Speaker 1: there's a lot to unpack there that you could agree 54 00:03:10,970 --> 00:03:13,870 Speaker 1: or disagree with. But I've heard the argument from the 55 00:03:13,950 --> 00:03:16,950 Speaker 1: Christian perspective, oh, what if someone's house was burning down? 56 00:03:17,010 --> 00:03:20,150 Speaker 1: Wouldn't you go and tell them? But I've never heard 57 00:03:20,190 --> 00:03:23,330 Speaker 1: an atheist say anything like that. And I just thought 58 00:03:23,370 --> 00:03:26,990 Speaker 1: that was interesting. And he just basically... wrapped up his 59 00:03:27,070 --> 00:03:30,780 Speaker 1: whole video by saying, I probably, you know, I don't 60 00:03:30,790 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: know if I'm going to read this. Probably not. I 61 00:03:33,100 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: definitely know there's no God. But this man was a 62 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: good man. And I really was touched by his gesture. 63 00:03:41,260 --> 00:03:43,180 Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting. So it got me thinking 64 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,220 Speaker 1: about a lot of things regarding sharing the gospel, prayer, 65 00:03:48,140 --> 00:03:48,660 Speaker 1: all of that. 66 00:03:49,540 --> 00:03:54,310 Speaker 2: Yeah. I've heard similar things where it's this idea of, 67 00:03:55,070 --> 00:04:00,050 Speaker 2: If you're telling me that if I don't know this 68 00:04:00,130 --> 00:04:03,790 Speaker 2: or believe this or accept this truth, that I have 69 00:04:03,830 --> 00:04:08,350 Speaker 2: an eternity in hell, then why wouldn't you share that 70 00:04:09,030 --> 00:04:13,290 Speaker 2: with me? So I think that's kind of what the 71 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 2: magician in the video you're talking about was kind of expressing. 72 00:04:17,380 --> 00:04:23,650 Speaker 2: But I think there's maybe... The danger of oversimplification. Agreed. 73 00:04:24,029 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot to unpack from that that I 74 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,980 Speaker 1: think could be. So that's, yeah, kind of why I 75 00:04:29,020 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: thought we should maybe talk about it. 76 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,940 Speaker 2: Yeah, I am really, really excited. Well, with that, do 77 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: you want to open us up in some prayer? 78 00:04:36,940 --> 00:04:38,900 Speaker 1: Yeah, let me share our verse of the day, which 79 00:04:38,980 --> 00:04:42,330 Speaker 1: is Romans 10, 14 to 15. And how can they 80 00:04:42,370 --> 00:04:44,289 Speaker 1: believe in the one of whom they have never heard? 81 00:04:44,750 --> 00:04:47,230 Speaker 1: And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 82 00:04:47,630 --> 00:04:49,810 Speaker 1: How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news. 83 00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: So let's pray. Lord, we just come before you so 84 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:58,450 Speaker 1: thankful for the gift of Jesus. We thank you so 85 00:04:58,490 --> 00:05:01,270 Speaker 1: much for the gift of your word. And we just 86 00:05:01,350 --> 00:05:04,010 Speaker 1: pray that you would help us just as we talk today, 87 00:05:04,070 --> 00:05:09,430 Speaker 1: just help Alana and me to see clearly and just 88 00:05:09,490 --> 00:05:12,650 Speaker 1: be able to cover questions that people might be asking 89 00:05:12,710 --> 00:05:15,710 Speaker 1: on the other end of this conversation on the other 90 00:05:15,750 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: side of the camera, that you would just be helping 91 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,820 Speaker 1: us to touch on the things that people need to hear. 92 00:05:23,900 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: And we just pray that for all of us, all 93 00:05:26,500 --> 00:05:29,229 Speaker 1: of our listeners and for Alana and for me, that 94 00:05:29,290 --> 00:05:33,930 Speaker 1: you would just be reminding us about the importance of 95 00:05:34,270 --> 00:05:38,750 Speaker 1: sharing the gospel, the importance of prayer, the importance of 96 00:05:39,470 --> 00:05:45,420 Speaker 1: seeing things with eternal eyes instead of temporal eyes, that 97 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,180 Speaker 1: you would help us to just, I know for me, 98 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: fear of just being socially awkward, fear of people thinking 99 00:05:53,260 --> 00:05:57,559 Speaker 1: I'm weird or fear of turning people off by telling 100 00:05:57,580 --> 00:06:01,060 Speaker 1: them about Jesus is very real. And I think that 101 00:06:01,180 --> 00:06:04,060 Speaker 1: fear can be healthy. And I think that fear can 102 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 1: be limiting as well. And I just pray you'd help 103 00:06:05,980 --> 00:06:09,620 Speaker 1: us to kind of know when that's the case, just 104 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:11,660 Speaker 1: that we would be led by your Holy Spirit, that 105 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: doors would be open to share the gospel and And 106 00:06:14,420 --> 00:06:15,860 Speaker 1: that as we talk about it, that you would just 107 00:06:15,900 --> 00:06:19,020 Speaker 1: be here and be present with us. In Jesus' name, amen. 108 00:06:19,500 --> 00:06:22,930 Speaker 2: So just for fun, have you ever had an extremely 109 00:06:23,750 --> 00:06:28,909 Speaker 2: awkward evangelism experience where either someone's proselytizing to you or 110 00:06:28,950 --> 00:06:31,409 Speaker 2: you're trying to witness to someone? Yes. 111 00:06:33,250 --> 00:06:36,550 Speaker 1: So I was just out of college. I had moved 112 00:06:36,589 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: back to my parents' home because I was going to 113 00:06:38,900 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: get married to my fiancé, and we broke it off. 114 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,539 Speaker 1: And I moved back home. I was working, I don't know, 115 00:06:48,580 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: about 45 minutes away from home. And it was kind 116 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,020 Speaker 1: of near the University of Maryland. And so I thought 117 00:06:55,660 --> 00:06:59,239 Speaker 1: I would get involved with a campus ministry there. So 118 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,380 Speaker 1: I would work during the days and then I would 119 00:07:01,430 --> 00:07:03,510 Speaker 1: go to their like a Bible study once a week 120 00:07:03,570 --> 00:07:07,450 Speaker 1: in the evenings. And so I went to the Bible study. 121 00:07:07,470 --> 00:07:11,790 Speaker 1: They were very share the gospel heavy. Like they were 122 00:07:11,830 --> 00:07:16,170 Speaker 1: very evangelism minded. So we had this thing where we 123 00:07:16,210 --> 00:07:19,730 Speaker 1: went on the campus in groups or pairs, and we 124 00:07:19,770 --> 00:07:22,130 Speaker 1: just had to walk up to people and randomly ask 125 00:07:22,170 --> 00:07:25,250 Speaker 1: them questions. And it was just, you know, you know 126 00:07:25,290 --> 00:07:28,290 Speaker 1: the thing. If you've been in campus ministry, you've probably 127 00:07:28,330 --> 00:07:32,190 Speaker 1: done the thing. And in some ways, it felt very 128 00:07:32,250 --> 00:07:35,940 Speaker 1: forced to me. It was not my comfort zone. And 129 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,300 Speaker 1: I ran into a girl that I went to high 130 00:07:39,380 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: school with. 131 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:40,900 Speaker 2: And. 132 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,540 Speaker 1: the girl that I was with was like, oh, let's 133 00:07:43,580 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: go talk to her. 134 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 2: And I'm like, no. 135 00:07:47,850 --> 00:07:50,570 Speaker 1: And I didn't know her super well. I was acquainted 136 00:07:50,610 --> 00:07:53,690 Speaker 1: with her. And I just remember going up to her 137 00:07:53,770 --> 00:07:57,270 Speaker 1: and being like, hey, you know, and we knew each 138 00:07:57,310 --> 00:07:59,790 Speaker 1: other enough for her to know who I was. And 139 00:07:59,810 --> 00:08:03,780 Speaker 1: of course, I just launched right in to, I don't 140 00:08:03,820 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: even know exactly what the words were, but basically, do 141 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,850 Speaker 1: you know Jesus? And she kind of looked and she 142 00:08:10,890 --> 00:08:13,930 Speaker 1: kind of got this sort of like, I don't know, 143 00:08:14,450 --> 00:08:17,490 Speaker 1: almost patronizing kind of look on her face. And she 144 00:08:17,510 --> 00:08:20,730 Speaker 1: was like, I think I've got the religion thing figured out. 145 00:08:20,810 --> 00:08:26,010 Speaker 1: Thanks anyway. See ya. And we parted ways and it just, it, 146 00:08:26,490 --> 00:08:29,910 Speaker 1: I didn't like it. I didn't like it. And I, 147 00:08:30,510 --> 00:08:33,390 Speaker 1: at the time, I don't know, I can see both sides. 148 00:08:33,570 --> 00:08:36,970 Speaker 1: I can see putting yourself out there. You never know what, 149 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:39,980 Speaker 1: you know, God is going to plant as seeds because 150 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: there were people that we talked to that were open 151 00:08:42,420 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: to talking a little bit. But at the same time, 152 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,839 Speaker 1: I also think, like I said in the prayer, I 153 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: think there's a time when fear can be a healthy thing. 154 00:08:54,570 --> 00:09:01,970 Speaker 1: Fear of maybe forcing things, forcing a situation rather than 155 00:09:02,010 --> 00:09:05,980 Speaker 1: building relationships with people because she's probably thinking, I haven't 156 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 1: seen you in a year and a half. Or actually, 157 00:09:09,580 --> 00:09:11,340 Speaker 1: at that point, it had been four years. I haven't 158 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,660 Speaker 1: seen you in four years. And you're literally going to 159 00:09:14,700 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: come up and just like gloss over the small talk 160 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: and ask me about Jesus? Come on, man. And again, 161 00:09:22,380 --> 00:09:25,140 Speaker 1: not to say that God can't use those opportunities or 162 00:09:25,260 --> 00:09:29,929 Speaker 1: open doors, but I don't know. Personally speaking, I've not 163 00:09:30,450 --> 00:09:36,180 Speaker 1: ever been a huge fan of forced evangelism. And I 164 00:09:36,260 --> 00:09:39,260 Speaker 1: realize and recognize some of that is my personality. And 165 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,910 Speaker 1: I don't know how much of that is personality and 166 00:09:42,950 --> 00:09:44,829 Speaker 1: I should stick to that or how much of it 167 00:09:44,910 --> 00:09:46,710 Speaker 1: is I need to push myself out of my comfort 168 00:09:46,730 --> 00:09:48,810 Speaker 1: zone sometimes. And I think it's a little of both. 169 00:10:01,450 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 2: Probably, you know, just like we've talked so much about 170 00:10:04,630 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 2: ways to pray, we shouldn't be made to feel guilty 171 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 2: that if we're not following somebody's extreme formula, that we're 172 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,580 Speaker 2: doing it wrong. I think it's the same with witnessing. 173 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 2: I think there are 100,000 caveats. It could definitely turn 174 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,140 Speaker 2: into the easy excuse. I don't want to make someone uncomfortable. 175 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,700 Speaker 2: It's not my style. I'm waiting for the right time. 176 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 2: I'm waiting for God to open the doors. Nothing ever happens. 177 00:10:32,740 --> 00:10:36,380 Speaker 2: So I think it can definitely become an excuse to 178 00:10:36,470 --> 00:10:40,790 Speaker 2: lean into your personality and just say, I don't cold 179 00:10:40,870 --> 00:10:42,130 Speaker 2: call for Jesus. 180 00:10:42,350 --> 00:10:45,250 Speaker 1: I'm going to get that t-shirt. Right. 181 00:10:46,590 --> 00:10:50,309 Speaker 2: But on the other hand, it isn't for everybody. It 182 00:10:50,570 --> 00:10:54,010 Speaker 2: absolutely isn't. And for anybody who's been on the receiving 183 00:10:54,130 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 2: end of somebody trying to cold call for Jesus, it's awkward. 184 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,900 Speaker 2: And it's like you were saying, it's like I'm your 185 00:11:03,980 --> 00:11:11,260 Speaker 2: project and not a person. So I would say let's 186 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:19,010 Speaker 2: expand our definition and picture. of what witnessing to unbelievers 187 00:11:19,250 --> 00:11:23,750 Speaker 2: can look like. And let's assume that there is a 188 00:11:24,270 --> 00:11:29,930 Speaker 2: perfect design for every single one of us to witness 189 00:11:30,030 --> 00:11:35,329 Speaker 2: in a way that is absolutely like picture perfect, tailor 190 00:11:35,350 --> 00:11:39,099 Speaker 2: designed for us. I know a couple of weeks ago, 191 00:11:39,140 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 2: we were talking about Eric Little, the Olympic runner, who's 192 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 2: one of the main characters. was also a missionary to China. 193 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,930 Speaker 2: And one of the things that his story really feels 194 00:11:54,010 --> 00:11:56,290 Speaker 2: close to home for me that I shared is my 195 00:11:56,309 --> 00:11:59,150 Speaker 2: dad was saved because of a student athlete that he 196 00:11:59,230 --> 00:12:02,479 Speaker 2: really looked up to. So I think if someone like 197 00:12:02,860 --> 00:12:07,260 Speaker 2: my son, I would never expect him to feel guilty 198 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 2: that he's not standing with a sandwich board on a sidewalk. 199 00:12:11,540 --> 00:12:15,860 Speaker 2: And I would say the image of The high school 200 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:20,580 Speaker 2: athlete who excelled so much at his sport that my 201 00:12:20,620 --> 00:12:23,540 Speaker 2: dad really looked up to him and that opens the 202 00:12:23,580 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 2: door for witnessing is a type of witnessing that might 203 00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:33,510 Speaker 2: be tailor-made for my son. For somebody else, maybe it 204 00:12:33,570 --> 00:12:37,270 Speaker 2: is the sandwich board. But I think that we can 205 00:12:37,570 --> 00:12:41,089 Speaker 2: often feel so much shame that we're not doing it 206 00:12:41,210 --> 00:12:44,380 Speaker 2: the loudest and most flamboyant way. But let's be honest, 207 00:12:44,390 --> 00:12:48,179 Speaker 2: you and I are not loud, flamboyant people. So why 208 00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: would we expect that to be the way we do it? Yeah. 209 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:56,180 Speaker 1: I mean, it's very parallel to our messaging about prayer 210 00:12:56,420 --> 00:12:58,500 Speaker 1: and how you shouldn't try to pray like anyone else. 211 00:12:58,740 --> 00:13:03,090 Speaker 1: I think God has designed us to share Jesus in 212 00:13:03,150 --> 00:13:07,929 Speaker 1: our own way. I will say that if I were 213 00:13:07,970 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: left to my own devices, I might just pray for 214 00:13:12,340 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: people to be saved instead of doing the work and 215 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,709 Speaker 1: putting myself out there. And so that's the part where 216 00:13:20,500 --> 00:13:26,150 Speaker 1: after decades of looking back on that college evangelism stuff, 217 00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:29,550 Speaker 1: like I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't do that again, 218 00:13:30,210 --> 00:13:33,850 Speaker 1: but I don't think that it means that I shouldn't 219 00:13:34,350 --> 00:13:39,170 Speaker 1: put myself out of my comfort zone to share, particularly 220 00:13:39,230 --> 00:13:42,940 Speaker 1: when I feel nudged by the Holy Spirit. But sometimes 221 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,969 Speaker 1: even maybe when you're not necessarily feeling nudged and you 222 00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:47,949 Speaker 1: just are like, you know what, I need to talk 223 00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:52,089 Speaker 1: to this person. Because my default tends to be I 224 00:13:52,750 --> 00:13:55,030 Speaker 1: don't want to offend anyone. I don't want to make 225 00:13:55,090 --> 00:13:58,590 Speaker 1: anyone feel awkward. And I've gotten to the point where 226 00:13:58,830 --> 00:14:03,620 Speaker 1: asking someone to pray with them has become less weird 227 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,410 Speaker 1: for me because I have. extended the invitation enough times 228 00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:10,610 Speaker 1: and people have been receptive enough times that I don't 229 00:14:10,670 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: feel that uncomfortable doing that. I have had a few shutdowns, 230 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,700 Speaker 1: but for the most part, it's like most people are 231 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:22,940 Speaker 1: welcoming of that. But when it comes to handing someone 232 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,420 Speaker 1: a Bible randomly like that guy did, I don't picture 233 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: myself ever doing that, but I could picture it being 234 00:14:31,300 --> 00:14:33,660 Speaker 1: a good thing if I maybe did. 235 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 2: I don't know. 236 00:14:35,130 --> 00:14:37,970 Speaker 1: And again, I'm not saying every time. I'm not saying 237 00:14:38,030 --> 00:14:41,990 Speaker 1: force it. But this guy was a fan of Penn 238 00:14:42,890 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: and knew that he was an atheist and felt like 239 00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:51,100 Speaker 1: kind of an outpouring of his admiration for this guy was, 240 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: and he already had a connection. He was going to 241 00:14:53,060 --> 00:14:55,620 Speaker 1: tell him he appreciated his work. And I think he 242 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:59,370 Speaker 1: had even participated with like props from the night before 243 00:14:59,470 --> 00:15:02,530 Speaker 1: or something from the show that night or the night 244 00:15:02,570 --> 00:15:04,900 Speaker 1: before or something. And he was bringing them back. And 245 00:15:05,540 --> 00:15:09,260 Speaker 1: so he kind of had an open door there. And 246 00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: he just used that open door as an opportunity to 247 00:15:13,060 --> 00:15:16,330 Speaker 1: genuinely show his concern and care for this guy by 248 00:15:16,370 --> 00:15:18,010 Speaker 1: giving him the Bible. And I think part of it 249 00:15:18,190 --> 00:15:22,610 Speaker 1: is that was his goal. When I was out kind 250 00:15:22,650 --> 00:15:26,670 Speaker 1: of cold calling, I was just flat out nervous. And 251 00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:30,530 Speaker 1: I didn't even really know, I don't think, what the 252 00:15:30,670 --> 00:15:31,780 Speaker 1: end game was there. 253 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. So. 254 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,660 Speaker 1: I don't know. That's clear as mud. Have you had 255 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,820 Speaker 1: any awkward experiences, either being on the receiving or the 256 00:15:41,860 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: giving end of proselytization? I've had both proselytization. 257 00:15:47,580 --> 00:15:50,870 Speaker 2: I think. We're probably missing a consonant or two. 258 00:15:51,020 --> 00:15:53,310 Speaker 1: I know we are. It's okay. 259 00:15:53,410 --> 00:15:59,510 Speaker 2: So let me think. I have been in awkward positions 260 00:15:59,570 --> 00:16:03,390 Speaker 2: where I have witnessed to people. But what's interesting is, 261 00:16:04,180 --> 00:16:08,510 Speaker 2: is looking back, I say to myself, okay, I think 262 00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:13,490 Speaker 2: God designed that. Like I felt terribly awkward. The most 263 00:16:13,630 --> 00:16:18,130 Speaker 2: clear example I have is in college, I had a 264 00:16:18,190 --> 00:16:20,170 Speaker 2: friend who had just become a Christian and she was 265 00:16:20,270 --> 00:16:22,450 Speaker 2: really excited. So she asked me, she's like, let's go 266 00:16:22,490 --> 00:16:25,340 Speaker 2: around and tell people about Jesus. And in my brain, 267 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: I'm like, this is the last thing I want to do. 268 00:16:27,020 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 2: But also kind of like with the kid, you don't 269 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 2: want to dampen. 270 00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: The Holy Spirit. I know. It's like, shouldn't I be 271 00:16:34,370 --> 00:16:35,830 Speaker 1: as excited as this? 272 00:16:36,510 --> 00:16:40,170 Speaker 2: And so the way it worked, she truly, even as 273 00:16:40,210 --> 00:16:44,690 Speaker 2: a brand new believer, had a tremendous gift of discernment. 274 00:16:45,670 --> 00:16:49,810 Speaker 2: And I remember once we walked into the bookstore, the 275 00:16:49,830 --> 00:16:52,010 Speaker 2: student union or something, she just looked around and then 276 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,580 Speaker 2: she whispered to me, she says, that one. So She 277 00:16:55,630 --> 00:16:58,420 Speaker 2: went and got him. And here's something that I love 278 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,220 Speaker 2: about witnessing that we don't talk about ever. And that 279 00:17:02,580 --> 00:17:07,180 Speaker 2: is being Andrew. And Andrew is like, okay, I think 280 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,460 Speaker 2: that's a biblical name. And that's kind of all we know. 281 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 2: So Andrew was Simon Peter's brother. And on more than 282 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 2: one occasion, Andrew is the one who introduces somebody else 283 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,900 Speaker 2: to Jesus. Andrew's the one who told Peter, I think 284 00:17:26,940 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 2: we found the Messiah. Andrew's the one who told Jesus, hey, 285 00:17:31,420 --> 00:17:35,899 Speaker 2: there's these Greek people who are trying to get in 286 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 2: touch with you. And what you were doing and what 287 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 2: a lot of cold call witnessing does is takes Andrew 288 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 2: totally out of the picture. And it's, we're all Peter. 289 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 2: We're all like Peter. I picture if Peter was an 290 00:17:51,420 --> 00:17:54,570 Speaker 2: evangelist today, He would be loud and he would be, 291 00:17:55,250 --> 00:17:56,669 Speaker 2: I don't want to say in your face because that 292 00:17:56,690 --> 00:17:59,210 Speaker 2: doesn't have the best connotation, but you get what I'm saying. 293 00:17:59,530 --> 00:18:00,950 Speaker 2: He wouldn't be apologetic. 294 00:18:01,490 --> 00:18:03,550 Speaker 1: Yeah, right. He would have just been out there. 295 00:18:03,570 --> 00:18:07,730 Speaker 2: Yeah. And then we have Andrew that everyone's like, Andrew, yeah, 296 00:18:08,010 --> 00:18:10,389 Speaker 2: I've heard the name. He's probably somewhere in the New Testament. 297 00:18:10,410 --> 00:18:12,670 Speaker 2: Maybe he was one of Paul's friends or a disciple 298 00:18:12,710 --> 00:18:16,590 Speaker 2: or something. But he had the gift of bringing people 299 00:18:17,150 --> 00:18:21,010 Speaker 2: to the evangelist or to the Messiah. And that's what 300 00:18:21,070 --> 00:18:24,180 Speaker 2: my friend did. She was like, So she went out. 301 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,990 Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm going to sit over here. And my 302 00:18:27,070 --> 00:18:28,649 Speaker 2: excuse was like, I'm going to sit over here and 303 00:18:28,670 --> 00:18:32,790 Speaker 2: pray for you. Actually, it was like, this is so awkward. 304 00:18:32,830 --> 00:18:36,689 Speaker 1: You can argue, like, what is an excuse and what is. 305 00:18:36,930 --> 00:18:38,990 Speaker 2: I know. And what is smart. I know. 306 00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:42,430 Speaker 1: And maybe it's both. And in my case, it's absolutely both. 307 00:18:43,010 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 2: But I remember at one point she brought this young man, like, 308 00:18:46,540 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 2: to the table that I was sitting at. And we 309 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 2: had like an hour and a half long discussion. So 310 00:18:54,580 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 2: in a case like that, when you are matched with 311 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,050 Speaker 2: the right person, and maybe that's why Jesus sent disciples 312 00:19:01,150 --> 00:19:06,370 Speaker 2: two by two, if you have the right dynamic and 313 00:19:06,410 --> 00:19:10,830 Speaker 2: the right motives, and you are witnessing according to your 314 00:19:11,330 --> 00:19:13,950 Speaker 2: gifting and personality, because like I said, this girl had 315 00:19:14,010 --> 00:19:18,409 Speaker 2: an amazing gift of discernment. She wasn't just grabbing the 316 00:19:18,450 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 2: first person. So on the one hand, it can be 317 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,619 Speaker 2: powerful and I've seen that be powerful. On the other hand, 318 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 2: I've had people like accost me on city street corners 319 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,739 Speaker 2: and demand to know my spiritual life history and my 320 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:39,050 Speaker 2: conversion story to prove if I'm going to hell or not. 321 00:19:39,990 --> 00:19:44,909 Speaker 2: And I am not a, you meet me once and 322 00:19:44,950 --> 00:19:48,490 Speaker 2: you know everything about me. You have no right to 323 00:19:48,690 --> 00:19:51,500 Speaker 2: ask me about my personal relationship with Jesus if you 324 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:57,780 Speaker 2: don't even know my name and where I'm from. Let's 325 00:19:57,859 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 2: start with, like you said, let's start with the small talk. 326 00:20:00,340 --> 00:20:03,380 Speaker 2: And I don't small talk strangers either. So to me, 327 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 2: I would never be the right kind of person to 328 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,890 Speaker 2: confront on a street corner. And There are other people 329 00:20:10,910 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 2: who that is their conversion story. So I think, again, 330 00:20:16,020 --> 00:20:19,820 Speaker 2: we just have to broaden our appreciation for how there 331 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 2: were so many different types of people and what works 332 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,580 Speaker 2: for one person isn't going to work for another. So 333 00:20:27,619 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 2: I have a question for you. If right now today, you, Jamie, 334 00:20:31,180 --> 00:20:34,740 Speaker 2: today were an unbeliever, what would be the most effective 335 00:20:34,820 --> 00:20:37,550 Speaker 2: way that you could see yourself being brought to the Lord? 336 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: I would say that I would have to be in 337 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:47,530 Speaker 1: a place where I was desperate and meet someone at 338 00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:51,590 Speaker 1: just the right time, which I think about that sometimes 339 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:56,190 Speaker 1: with just the random walking up to people. I think, 340 00:20:56,810 --> 00:20:59,590 Speaker 1: what if, because I've been in a place even as 341 00:20:59,630 --> 00:21:02,109 Speaker 1: a Christian where I've just been like, God, just send 342 00:21:02,170 --> 00:21:04,489 Speaker 1: me somebody, you know, just give me somebody to give 343 00:21:04,530 --> 00:21:07,909 Speaker 1: me something like to hold on to. You know, I 344 00:21:07,950 --> 00:21:12,530 Speaker 1: need something. And if someone were to just randomly like 345 00:21:12,890 --> 00:21:15,670 Speaker 1: come up to me in the store and say, God 346 00:21:15,730 --> 00:21:20,410 Speaker 1: loves you. Or, you know, do you know Jesus? Here, 347 00:21:20,530 --> 00:21:22,650 Speaker 1: I just want to give you this Bible. I think 348 00:21:22,690 --> 00:21:25,630 Speaker 1: that would be the thing. I would have to be, 349 00:21:25,650 --> 00:21:29,150 Speaker 1: I think, in a place of desperation where I didn't 350 00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:33,850 Speaker 1: have anything else and kind of have someone reach out 351 00:21:33,890 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: at just the right time. And I think that's what 352 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:42,330 Speaker 1: the Bible talks about, the fields being ripe. And in Jesus' time, 353 00:21:42,590 --> 00:21:45,050 Speaker 1: people were desperate for hope. They were desperate for good 354 00:21:45,109 --> 00:21:48,470 Speaker 1: news like that. I think on the side of the 355 00:21:48,530 --> 00:21:52,169 Speaker 1: Jewish people, they were desperate for good news that they 356 00:21:52,210 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: don't have to keep sacrificing over and over and over again. 357 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: They don't have to suffer under the Roman Empire anymore 358 00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:04,100 Speaker 1: without hope. that God was seeing them and that he 359 00:22:04,140 --> 00:22:06,100 Speaker 1: had a plan and a future for them. And then, 360 00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:09,230 Speaker 1: you know, the people that were poor and impoverished and, 361 00:22:10,390 --> 00:22:12,850 Speaker 1: you know, the sinners who were outcasts, the lepers, like 362 00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:15,850 Speaker 1: those were the people that were ripe to hear the 363 00:22:15,869 --> 00:22:19,090 Speaker 1: good news. The people that thought they had it all together, 364 00:22:20,060 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: some of them believed. There were Pharisees and Sadducees that believed, 365 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,140 Speaker 1: but not as many, I don't think. So that's just 366 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,419 Speaker 1: kind of what I think. And I think another way 367 00:22:29,460 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: that people could reach me would be just being the 368 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: kind of person without, and this is where one of 369 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: my roommates in college really reached me at a time 370 00:22:42,900 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: when I had kind of fallen away. I believed in God, 371 00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:47,900 Speaker 1: but I was not living for God. And the way 372 00:22:48,020 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: she reached me and drew me back to God, or 373 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: maybe the way that God used her to draw me 374 00:22:54,160 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: back to himself, was she was living her life enthusiastically 375 00:23:00,580 --> 00:23:02,929 Speaker 1: for God, She was kind of a Peter. She was 376 00:23:02,990 --> 00:23:06,750 Speaker 1: not apologetic about singing praise and worship songs on her 377 00:23:06,790 --> 00:23:11,450 Speaker 1: guitar in the hallway of our dorm or talking about Jesus, 378 00:23:12,260 --> 00:23:16,400 Speaker 1: going to a party and not drinking or partying at all, 379 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,940 Speaker 1: but having a conversation with someone about the Lord. Like 380 00:23:18,980 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: that was her. And just by being friends with her. 381 00:23:23,340 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: I was drawn to her anyway, but, you know, just 382 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: being friends with her without her even saying anything about, 383 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: you know, you say you're a Christian, but you're doing 384 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,420 Speaker 1: these things and not really living the life. She really 385 00:23:35,050 --> 00:23:39,770 Speaker 1: drew me in and convinced me, I guess, just by 386 00:23:39,850 --> 00:23:41,710 Speaker 1: living the life that I kind of wished I had. 387 00:23:54,180 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something to that for sure. And again, all 388 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,100 Speaker 2: of these things can turn into excuses. We can say, 389 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:07,780 Speaker 2: I just want to represent Jesus well. And that's something 390 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 2: I love about the story of the magician. I think 391 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,820 Speaker 2: that the guy who gave him that Bible did exactly 392 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,380 Speaker 2: the right thing at exactly the right time for exactly 393 00:24:17,420 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 2: the right reasons. And I don't believe that that means 394 00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 2: that we all need to go out and copy it. 395 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:32,330 Speaker 2: Because people, human beings, can smell phoniness. And nobody wants 396 00:24:32,790 --> 00:24:37,270 Speaker 2: the MLM babe to come and be hitting on them 397 00:24:37,690 --> 00:24:42,930 Speaker 2: to buy their wares. And that's how the wrong kind 398 00:24:42,970 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 2: of evangelism can feel. And it can be extremely invasive. 399 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 2: So I'd say good listener homework, or even like a 400 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,060 Speaker 2: journal exercise, is ask yourself two questions. One is one 401 00:24:55,100 --> 00:24:58,100 Speaker 2: that I just asked you, and that's, if you were 402 00:24:58,300 --> 00:25:03,910 Speaker 2: unsaved today and someone was in your life who was 403 00:25:03,990 --> 00:25:09,869 Speaker 2: very concerned about your spiritual salvation, what would be the 404 00:25:09,950 --> 00:25:13,930 Speaker 2: effective way to approach it? And then I would also 405 00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:19,260 Speaker 2: ask yourself, based on what you know about yourself, what 406 00:25:19,780 --> 00:25:26,450 Speaker 2: might your evangelism design look like? The times that God 407 00:25:26,490 --> 00:25:28,590 Speaker 2: has used you in the past or the times that 408 00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:31,649 Speaker 2: you could see God using you, or even the times 409 00:25:31,670 --> 00:25:35,310 Speaker 2: that don't have as much of a spiritual result, like 410 00:25:35,369 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 2: somebody becoming a Christian, how has God used you in 411 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 2: people's lives? And that can absolutely show you what your 412 00:25:45,460 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 2: design for witnessing can look like. I know for me, 413 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 2: A lot of the witnessing that I did was kind 414 00:25:53,220 --> 00:25:55,460 Speaker 2: of like what you were saying. It was coming alongside somebody, 415 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 2: not a stranger, but a friend when they were going 416 00:25:57,420 --> 00:26:02,270 Speaker 2: through a hard time. And I had already built relationship 417 00:26:02,350 --> 00:26:06,530 Speaker 2: without it needing to mean that now you're my project. 418 00:26:07,050 --> 00:26:11,330 Speaker 2: I built relationship because I loved people and cared about people. 419 00:26:12,270 --> 00:26:15,010 Speaker 2: And then, oh, I see you're going through a hard time. 420 00:26:15,070 --> 00:26:16,470 Speaker 1: So it felt natural. 421 00:26:17,380 --> 00:26:21,140 Speaker 2: And it felt to me like there was a very 422 00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:25,740 Speaker 2: obvious progression to say, hey, I would love to pray 423 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,460 Speaker 2: for you. I would love to share this Bible verse 424 00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:32,420 Speaker 2: with you. Or there are times where I have sensed 425 00:26:32,660 --> 00:26:37,820 Speaker 2: a spiritual hunger in somebody and just did the gentlest 426 00:26:37,900 --> 00:26:43,100 Speaker 2: of prodding to see if it was their shift. It's 427 00:26:43,260 --> 00:26:47,199 Speaker 2: almost like reading somebody on a first date. It's, are 428 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,100 Speaker 2: we just going to be really, really superficial and enjoy 429 00:26:50,140 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 2: this dinner? Or are we going to trauma dump on 430 00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:57,420 Speaker 2: each other? And probably the best first date is right 431 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:02,180 Speaker 2: in the middle in a very healthy, respectable way. And 432 00:27:02,260 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 2: so for me, my witnessing persona is that putting out feelers, 433 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 2: having already relational currency that I've built into people. And 434 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 2: to have that not be with an agenda, right? And 435 00:27:21,859 --> 00:27:26,260 Speaker 2: then I have decided, and maybe this is my excuse, 436 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 2: I have decided to never feel guilty for not pushing 437 00:27:30,100 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 2: the gospel on somebody. I have decided that when the 438 00:27:34,580 --> 00:27:37,649 Speaker 2: right moment arrives, I will know it, they will know it, 439 00:27:37,690 --> 00:27:40,290 Speaker 2: God will know it, the door will open. Could that 440 00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 2: absolutely be an excuse? Yes. But for right now at 441 00:27:44,260 --> 00:27:47,380 Speaker 2: this stage of my life, it's what I trust in 442 00:27:47,580 --> 00:27:52,060 Speaker 2: so that I don't get so pushy. Like, let's talk 443 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,870 Speaker 2: about this guy who gave the magician a Bible. And 444 00:27:54,910 --> 00:27:57,990 Speaker 2: let's assume I'm going to have to read, you know, 445 00:27:58,010 --> 00:28:01,330 Speaker 2: I'm going to have to invent a character for this person. 446 00:28:01,650 --> 00:28:04,150 Speaker 2: But let's assume that this is his gift. And let's 447 00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:06,670 Speaker 2: talk about all the things he did right. And then 448 00:28:06,890 --> 00:28:08,430 Speaker 2: a few of the things that he could have done wrong, 449 00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:11,939 Speaker 2: but didn't. He had already built into the relationship. He 450 00:28:11,980 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 2: didn't just, Acosta's guy in the grocery store, he went 451 00:28:16,580 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 2: to where this guy was, like this Christian believer went 452 00:28:19,580 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: to a secular comedy magician show. And nobody had to 453 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,070 Speaker 2: clutch a pearl for that to have happened. And not 454 00:28:27,109 --> 00:28:29,270 Speaker 2: only that, he didn't go, I'm assuming. 455 00:28:29,970 --> 00:28:34,050 Speaker 1: To witness. He went because he enjoyed, he wanted. 456 00:28:33,850 --> 00:28:38,740 Speaker 2: To be entertained, right? And so there is a sense of, 457 00:28:39,730 --> 00:28:41,969 Speaker 2: relationship there, even though it's a little different when it's 458 00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:45,210 Speaker 2: like a public figure or celebrity. But there was relational 459 00:28:45,250 --> 00:28:48,709 Speaker 2: currency already built there. There was service, right? You said 460 00:28:48,730 --> 00:28:50,650 Speaker 2: he had something to do with props or whatever. So 461 00:28:50,770 --> 00:28:56,690 Speaker 2: it wasn't like the most awkward of cold calls. And then, again, 462 00:28:56,830 --> 00:29:00,300 Speaker 2: I'm just going to have to invent a persona. The 463 00:29:00,340 --> 00:29:03,300 Speaker 2: perfect persona that I have in my mind is somebody 464 00:29:03,380 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 2: who was emotionally discerning enough. I'm not even talking necessarily 465 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:13,910 Speaker 2: about spiritual discernment. but emotionally intelligent enough to have known 466 00:29:13,930 --> 00:29:17,830 Speaker 2: if this would not have been received well, and if 467 00:29:17,890 --> 00:29:20,190 Speaker 2: that was the case, to not have pushed. Because it 468 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:25,300 Speaker 2: sounds like what impacted the atheist was that there was 469 00:29:25,660 --> 00:29:31,540 Speaker 2: gentleness and respect and laying it out there. And so... 470 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,510 Speaker 2: Let's say that we need to bring some emotional intelligence 471 00:29:35,670 --> 00:29:38,590 Speaker 2: to this as well. This doesn't mean that every single 472 00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:41,770 Speaker 2: time there's a celebrity that we like, that we make 473 00:29:41,790 --> 00:29:44,850 Speaker 2: it our excuse. Oh, I like this singer because one 474 00:29:44,890 --> 00:29:46,210 Speaker 2: day I'm going to go to her show and I'm 475 00:29:46,230 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 2: going to hand her a Bible. I don't think that's 476 00:29:49,340 --> 00:29:53,900 Speaker 2: accurate or necessary. And I don't think that the end 477 00:29:53,940 --> 00:29:57,860 Speaker 2: result would be very good in that case, because People 478 00:29:57,940 --> 00:30:00,510 Speaker 2: know when you're pushing something on them and people know 479 00:30:00,550 --> 00:30:03,530 Speaker 2: when you're doing it for phony reasons. Yeah. 480 00:30:03,790 --> 00:30:07,070 Speaker 1: And the word that he used when you watch the video, 481 00:30:07,170 --> 00:30:10,910 Speaker 1: he uses it multiple times. He uses the word sane 482 00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:14,590 Speaker 1: because I think in his mind as an atheist, the 483 00:30:14,650 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: caricature of someone who's going to share the gospel, who's 484 00:30:18,460 --> 00:30:25,390 Speaker 1: a Bible thumper, is someone who's insane. They're just crazy people. Um, 485 00:30:25,650 --> 00:30:28,890 Speaker 1: they're not making sense. They're not down to earth. They're 486 00:30:28,930 --> 00:30:34,180 Speaker 1: not grounded. And something about this guy was genuine to him. 487 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,540 Speaker 1: It wasn't fake. It wasn't forced. It was sane. It 488 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,660 Speaker 1: was grounded. And I think that's, you know, I think that's, 489 00:30:43,340 --> 00:30:43,980 Speaker 1: that's telling. 490 00:30:44,790 --> 00:30:47,310 Speaker 2: Yeah. I have one thought that I would want to 491 00:30:47,370 --> 00:30:49,850 Speaker 2: leave you with and we can discuss it if you disagree. 492 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,380 Speaker 2: I almost believe that if you are so invested in 493 00:30:55,500 --> 00:31:00,220 Speaker 2: an individual salvation that you make that your prayer burden. 494 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 2: I think some of us might worry that that's an excuse. Oh, 495 00:31:05,370 --> 00:31:07,270 Speaker 2: I don't want to witness to my cousin. I'll just 496 00:31:07,370 --> 00:31:10,590 Speaker 2: pray for him, you know, and it absolutely can turn 497 00:31:10,610 --> 00:31:13,430 Speaker 2: into an excuse. So I'm not talking about that. I 498 00:31:13,490 --> 00:31:17,650 Speaker 2: am talking about I have received the deepest of prayer burdens. 499 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,220 Speaker 2: for this person to come to Christ. I think that 500 00:31:22,380 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 2: if you are a good steward of that prayer burden, 501 00:31:28,580 --> 00:31:33,650 Speaker 2: that either that prayer burden is going to sustain you 502 00:31:33,770 --> 00:31:37,330 Speaker 2: through that entire person's spiritual development and you won't have 503 00:31:37,390 --> 00:31:41,090 Speaker 2: to do anything but pray, or you will have prayed 504 00:31:41,250 --> 00:31:44,670 Speaker 2: so much that the moment your spirit senses that it's 505 00:31:44,750 --> 00:31:48,270 Speaker 2: the right time, that that door is going to burst 506 00:31:49,010 --> 00:31:53,210 Speaker 2: wide open. And so I think that maybe there can 507 00:31:53,250 --> 00:31:57,620 Speaker 2: be a little bit more patience and serendipity and grace 508 00:31:58,130 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 2: in witnessing than a lot of Christians are taught. I 509 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 2: think about this similar to the creative process and like 510 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,959 Speaker 2: it's less, I've got to go out there and I've 511 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,780 Speaker 2: got to write this book. And it's more about, I 512 00:32:10,860 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 2: know that at the right time, the right scene is 513 00:32:13,740 --> 00:32:17,810 Speaker 2: just going to write itself. Can that become an excuse? Yeah. 514 00:32:18,330 --> 00:32:20,510 Speaker 2: It could mean that I just sit and think about 515 00:32:20,530 --> 00:32:24,130 Speaker 2: a book that I never write. But it can also 516 00:32:24,190 --> 00:32:27,470 Speaker 2: mean that you're not pushing against something until it is 517 00:32:27,530 --> 00:32:28,970 Speaker 2: the right time. And then when the right time comes, 518 00:32:29,050 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 2: it's not even pushing. It's just like walking alongside this 519 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 2: stone that got already started moving. 520 00:32:35,660 --> 00:32:38,700 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I can totally see that. And, you know, 521 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,310 Speaker 1: you talked about offering to pray while your friend was 522 00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:45,150 Speaker 1: evangelizing and how you felt like that could have been 523 00:32:45,170 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: a cop-out. And I just, I think it's important for 524 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: us to, like you said, look at it as an individual, 525 00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:57,500 Speaker 1: individual circumstances, because saying, just saying, oh, I'll pray for 526 00:32:57,540 --> 00:33:02,500 Speaker 1: that instead, to get out of talking with someone It 527 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: could be an excuse, but it could also be a 528 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,300 Speaker 1: healthy like, oh, hold on, that's not my gifting. Because 529 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: I guarantee there are Christians out there who would rather 530 00:33:12,380 --> 00:33:15,930 Speaker 1: go out and just tell people and preach and evangelize. 531 00:33:17,370 --> 00:33:19,330 Speaker 1: I don't think that you and I are that person. 532 00:33:19,850 --> 00:33:22,430 Speaker 1: But there's a person like that who, if you told 533 00:33:22,450 --> 00:33:24,729 Speaker 1: them to sit still and pray for an hour for 534 00:33:24,770 --> 00:33:28,890 Speaker 1: that person, would be like, that is the most grueling 535 00:33:29,100 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: thing I could ever think of. Yeah. because that's not 536 00:33:32,540 --> 00:33:37,220 Speaker 1: necessarily their strength. And it doesn't mean that they should 537 00:33:37,260 --> 00:33:40,030 Speaker 1: never pray, but it also doesn't mean that they should 538 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,390 Speaker 1: force themselves to sit in a prayer closet for an 539 00:33:42,490 --> 00:33:45,130 Speaker 1: hour a day praying for a person rather than just 540 00:33:45,170 --> 00:33:47,350 Speaker 1: going out and telling them about Jesus when that's what 541 00:33:47,390 --> 00:33:52,110 Speaker 1: God has gifted them for. So yeah, it is so individualized. 542 00:33:52,270 --> 00:33:56,740 Speaker 1: And as always, we come away with more questions than answers, 543 00:33:56,780 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: which I think is good because God is the one 544 00:33:58,580 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: that needs to answer these questions. The Holy Spirit needs 545 00:34:01,030 --> 00:34:02,510 Speaker 1: to kind of help you flesh it out. And I 546 00:34:02,650 --> 00:34:05,250 Speaker 1: love your homework exercise because I'm going to think about 547 00:34:05,270 --> 00:34:08,670 Speaker 1: that a little bit more and journal through it about who, like, 548 00:34:09,350 --> 00:34:11,109 Speaker 1: what would it take for you if you were not 549 00:34:11,150 --> 00:34:14,900 Speaker 1: a believer to be influenced by someone and be receptive 550 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,580 Speaker 1: to the gospel? And then what are some reflecting on 551 00:34:20,219 --> 00:34:23,980 Speaker 1: good and bad experiences of evangelism or sharing your faith 552 00:34:24,780 --> 00:34:29,219 Speaker 1: and kind of crafting your own, your kind of evangelism blueprint. 553 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:30,779 Speaker 2: Like your witnessing persona. 554 00:34:30,820 --> 00:34:35,820 Speaker 1: Witnessing persona, witnessing blueprint. I think that's, it's so important 555 00:34:36,980 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: to be thinking about. Yeah. Yeah. All right. 556 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,730 Speaker 2: Well, thank you everyone for joining us. And I do 557 00:34:43,810 --> 00:34:46,750 Speaker 2: pray that God opens up the right doors for you 558 00:34:46,910 --> 00:34:50,569 Speaker 2: at the right time and gives you that discernment. And 559 00:34:50,830 --> 00:34:52,310 Speaker 2: we will see you all next time. 560 00:34:56,260 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: We'd like to take just a quick second to thank 561 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,549 Speaker 1: the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us 562 00:35:00,610 --> 00:35:04,210 Speaker 1: on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio.com, you will 563 00:35:04,250 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 1: find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They've 564 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,399 Speaker 1: got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and so much more. 565 00:35:11,940 --> 00:35:12,980 Speaker 1: That's lifeaudio.com.