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Speaker 1: Welcome to Christian Parent Crazy World, the podcast that tackles

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Speaker 1: tough topics to help you be a godly parent in

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Speaker 1: an ungodly world. I am your host, Catherine Seekers, and

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Speaker 1: in today's episode, we will tackle this vitally important question,

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Speaker 1: what if much of what we've been taught about money

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Speaker 1: and the church simply isn't biblical.

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: You know, as Christian parents, we want to honor God

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Speaker 1: with our finances and pass on a faithful understanding of

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Speaker 1: generosity to our kids. But the truth is, there is

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Speaker 1: a lot of confusion and a lot of unbiblical teaching

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Speaker 1: surrounding money in the church, from guilt driven giving to

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Speaker 1: distorted promises of blessings. These misconceptions don't just affect our wallets,

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Speaker 1: they shape how we view God's character. Today. I am

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Speaker 1: joined by Clifton Payne Junior, a Bible scholar and the

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Speaker 1: author of of What the Bible Really Says about tithing

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Speaker 1: and giving. It's different than you think, and.

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Speaker 2: It really is.

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Speaker 1: This conversation isn't about financial strategies or quick takeaways. Nope,

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Speaker 1: It's about clearing away error and setting the record straight

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Speaker 1: so we know what our Holy Book really says about

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Speaker 1: our money. You know, I learned so much from Chliff's

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Speaker 1: book and from this discussion, and I think it's really

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Speaker 1: going to be eye opening for you as well. That

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Speaker 1: is the ground we will cover in this episode of

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Speaker 1: Christian Parent Crazy World. So let's get started. We are

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Speaker 1: finishing up a three part series on money today, and

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Speaker 1: this conversation is where everything comes together. We started this

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Speaker 1: series with Jade Durham, a certified personal financial coach, and

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Speaker 1: in that episode we looked at the practical side of stewardship,

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Speaker 1: how biblical principles apply to our budgets, how families can

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Speaker 1: get out of debt, and how to bring some peace

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Speaker 1: in order to an area of life that so often

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Speaker 1: feels overwhelming. That was episode one seventy three. Be sure

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Speaker 1: to check that one out if you haven't already. It

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Speaker 1: was so so helpful. But then in our last episode,

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Speaker 1: Cliff and I, yeah, we ripped the band aid off

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Speaker 1: and addressed the elephant in the room. That is a

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Speaker 1: couple of mixed metaphors. They're sorry for that, but that

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Speaker 1: was about the very uncomfortable question of why so many

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Speaker 1: Christians don't trust the Church with their money. We talked

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Speaker 1: very honestly about financial abuse and manipulation in the church

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Speaker 1: and the ways that unbiblical teaching, particularly from prosperity teachers,

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Speaker 1: has eroded trust and damaged faith. Cliff really helped to

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Speaker 1: clear the air by exposing how certain scriptures are misused

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Speaker 1: to take advantage of people. But now we are poised

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Speaker 1: to do the most important work of all in this series.

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Speaker 1: We're going to set the record straight. So in this

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Speaker 1: final episode we turned our attention to what the Bible

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Speaker 1: actually says about our money and are giving now. Just

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Speaker 1: to remind you, Clifton Payne Junior is uniquely equipped to

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Speaker 1: guide this conversation because he is a pastor, a writer,

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Speaker 1: and a Bible teacher who studied at the Hebrew University

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Speaker 1: in Jerusalem. Like I said, he is the author of

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Speaker 1: What the Bible Really Says about Tithing and Giving It's

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Speaker 1: Different than You Think, which won the twenty twenty five

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Speaker 1: American Book Fest Book Award and was a finalist in

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty five International Book Awards. His work cuts

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Speaker 1: through the confusion, it challenges assumptions, and points us back

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Speaker 1: to Scripture itself. So that said, let's jump right in, Cliff,

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Christian Parent Crazy World. It's so awesome

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Speaker 1: to have you back.

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Speaker 2: It's great to be back.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and now, at long last, we are finally going

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Speaker 1: to talk about your book. I'm so excited your book.

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Speaker 1: What the Bible says about tithing and giving. It's different

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Speaker 1: than you think. I love your title.

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Speaker 2: There.

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Speaker 1: You won an award for this book, didn't you.

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Speaker 2: I did the twenty twenty five International Book Awards. They

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Speaker 2: have many categories in each category has a winner and

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Speaker 2: two finalists, and my book was a finalist.

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Speaker 1: That's wonderful.

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Speaker 2: I've had articles published before, but this is my first book,

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Speaker 2: and to be my first book and to win a

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Speaker 2: literary award was unexpected. But I was greatly delighted by

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Speaker 2: it as well.

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Speaker 1: You should be. I still haven't crossed that milestone yet.

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Speaker 1: I hope to very soon. I'm working on a book

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Speaker 1: proposal myself, and you know, I'm not sure exactly when

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Speaker 1: the right time is to complete that book. I know

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Speaker 1: and know it's in my future, but that is so exciting.

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Speaker 1: Kudos to you, congratulations, and I'm very excited to talk

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Speaker 1: to you about the topic of this book because we

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Speaker 1: just spent the whole last episode talking about hang ups

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Speaker 1: that we have within the church rightfully. So a lot

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Speaker 1: of people think that the church is out for your money,

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Speaker 1: and the reason they think that is because some people

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Speaker 1: have used the Gospel for personal game. We actually went

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Speaker 1: into even beyond financial scandals that we've had in the church,

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Speaker 1: some sexual scandals that we've had in the church. We

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Speaker 1: talked about at all in the last episode. I highly

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Speaker 1: encourage people to go back and listen to it, because

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Speaker 1: what we came to as a conclusion is, yes, there

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Speaker 1: has been and always will be. You even went back

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Speaker 1: to the Old Testament talking about Eli's sons and Samuel's

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Speaker 1: sons who used their positions in ministry for personal game.

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Speaker 1: That has always been the case. And yet we can

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Speaker 1: still trust in the Lord and know that when we

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Speaker 1: do what he has called us to do with our finances,

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Speaker 1: when we invest in His kingdom's work, we are rewarded

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Speaker 1: by the Lord based on our sincerity to invest in

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Speaker 1: his kingdom. And so now we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: the actual principles in scripture. So often misconstrued that we

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Speaker 1: think the Bible is teaching one thing because a lot

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Speaker 1: of ministers may have taught it one way, and yet

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Speaker 1: it's not exactly biblical. You allude to the fact in

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Speaker 1: your title that there are a lot of misconceptions out there,

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Speaker 1: So why don't you start off sharing what some of

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Speaker 1: those misconceptions are.

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Speaker 2: All right? This book came about because a friend of

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Speaker 2: mine about four years ago, came by one day and

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Speaker 2: wanted to talk with me because he had a lot

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Speaker 2: of questions because you hear a lot of contradictory teaching

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Speaker 2: on the subject of tithing and giving, and he wanted

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Speaker 2: to know my thoughts. So we talked for about an

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Speaker 2: hour and a half and he finally said, Man, I've

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Speaker 2: ever written this stuff down. I said, no, it's more

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Speaker 2: complex than people know. It's scattered throughout the Bible. It's

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Speaker 2: difficult for people to see. It's hard to piece this together.

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Speaker 2: So he said, you need to write this down. People

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Speaker 2: need to know this. And I prayed about it, and

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Speaker 2: since I don't know a book quite like this one,

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Speaker 2: about four years ago I set out to do this.

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Speaker 2: The book, I bring up a lot of things that

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Speaker 2: people don't know about. Over ninety percent of all Christians

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Speaker 2: that I talked to when I mentioned to them, are

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Speaker 2: you aware that in the Bible there's not eight tithes,

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Speaker 2: there's three tithes. People look at me like, what, yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's three, and they go, oh, yeah, I know my time.

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Speaker 2: I don't know there are three ten percent monetary tithes.

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Speaker 2: And people go, no, I've never heard of that. Have

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Speaker 2: you also heard it preached that every seventh year there

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Speaker 2: wasn't a tithe because the lambs supposed to rest. Well, No,

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Speaker 2: I've never heard that preach either. Okay. The three tithes

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Speaker 2: or the first tithe was for the priests and levites

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Speaker 2: because they had no inheritance in the land, because their

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Speaker 2: full time job was to work, to take care of

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Speaker 2: the offerings, the sacrifices, take care of the tabernacle, temple,

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Speaker 2: and to teach people scripture. That's why the Levites lived

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Speaker 2: and the priests lived all throughout the land of Israel.

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Speaker 2: They weren't in one concentrated place. They lived all throughout

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Speaker 2: the land because they regularly taught people scripture. So it's

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Speaker 2: very analogous to a modern day minister. Yes, he works

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Speaker 2: full time for the church and for the people, so

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Speaker 2: we take of our income to support him so he

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Speaker 2: can work full time for the Lord because that's his calling,

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Speaker 2: that's his job. The second tithe was for you personally

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Speaker 2: to consume. And most people have never ever heard of this,

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Speaker 2: but all Jewish males were required to come to Jerusalem

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Speaker 2: for Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles. Almost everybody knows about the

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Speaker 2: three pilgrim feasts that you were supposed to come to Jerusalem.

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Speaker 2: What they don't know is it was required of men.

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Speaker 2: Women could come, women could participate, but they weren't required.

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Speaker 2: Reason the woman wasn't required is the same reason the

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Speaker 2: woman couldn't be a priest. Now that has nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with any kind of male dominance. There's actually a

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Speaker 2: practical reason for it. Now. By the way, that doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean women can't be in leadership because even in the

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Speaker 2: Old Testament, Deborah was prophet and a judge. Yes, she

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Speaker 2: was a political leader and a spiritual leader. While normally

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Speaker 2: it's men in positions of leadership. Even from the beginning

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Speaker 2: of Scripture, you do see times in places where there

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Speaker 2: are women in positions of leadership. There is the prophetess Holder,

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Speaker 2: there's other prophetess that are mentioned, Miriam, Old Testament and

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Speaker 2: New Testament. So but the reason a woman could not

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Speaker 2: be a priest is the same reason that women are

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Speaker 2: not required to come to the temple. Anything that's time

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Speaker 2: and space specific, women are exempt from because women have children.

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Speaker 2: For example, if a woman was the high priest, she's pregnant,

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Speaker 2: having a baby, and the day of atonement's coming up

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Speaker 2: and she goes into labor, well there's not going to

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Speaker 2: be a day of atonement. So anything that's time and

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Speaker 2: space specific women are exempt from.

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Speaker 1: I've never heard that explain that way. It's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate that you go into the Old Testament account.

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Speaker 1: I had a woman by the name of doctor Sandra

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Speaker 1: Richter on the show. Trying to remember it was either

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Speaker 1: earlier this year or late. I think it was earlier

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Speaker 1: this year those episodes aired. I interviewed her last year.

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Speaker 1: But it was fascinating. We went through the life and

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Speaker 1: times of Deborah. It was spectacular. But we also talked

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Speaker 1: about you know, when you look at I believe it's

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Speaker 1: in the Book of Micah that it talks about how

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Speaker 1: one third of the original leadership team in ancient Israel

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Speaker 1: was female. It was Miriam. She was mentioned as the

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Speaker 1: first prophetess, and so that is certainly a high leadership

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Speaker 1: position in the church. And then of course you had

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Speaker 1: Aaron as the high priest and then Moses as the

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Speaker 1: executive leader that was over the nation of Israel. But

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Speaker 1: God has been in the business of promoting women into

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Speaker 1: leadership since the inception of his nation. One third of

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Speaker 1: that nation, that nation's leadership was female. And then of

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Speaker 1: course she went into Deborah, which has a spectacular testimony.

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Speaker 1: In the Bolk of Judges, she's the fourth judge in

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Speaker 1: a series of twelve judges, and argument by the way

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Speaker 1: they make there some who try to discount her say, well,

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Speaker 1: you know there were no other men available to lead,

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Speaker 1: or you know, there's a lot of arguments they have

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Speaker 1: to discount her. And yet she wasn't the only judge

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Speaker 1: in that time period, there were other judges. That's the

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Speaker 1: one that the writers chose to the writer chose to

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Speaker 1: include because she has just an incredible testimony of how

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Speaker 1: God used her, like you said, in an executive function

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Speaker 1: as a judge in the nation of Israel, and also

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Speaker 1: in a spiritual function in a leadership church leadership function,

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Speaker 1: temple function of being the prophet, and then of course

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Speaker 1: hold a another great one. I encouraged my listeners to

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Speaker 1: go and check out her testimony because that was at

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Speaker 1: a time when the nation of Israel had forgotten God

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Speaker 1: forgotten the law. The law is found again and the

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Speaker 1: king is looking at it's hilkaya I believe, is the

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Speaker 1: high priest. He's like, go, inquire of the Lord. We

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Speaker 1: found the law, we're not following it. What do we

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Speaker 1: need to do? Now? What does Hilkaia do? It was

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Speaker 1: Hilkaia I believe, yes, And he goes and he inquires

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Speaker 1: of Holda to ask of the Lord. It's like, why

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Speaker 1: you're the high priest, Why are you going to this

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Speaker 1: prophetess over here? You should have the best communication with God,

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Speaker 1: you would think, right, No, he goes to hold it. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to reinforce that I appreciate that you

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Speaker 1: talk about it has nothing to do with a woman

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Speaker 1: and her leadership capacity in society and culture, in the family,

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Speaker 1: in the church, because God has promoted that from the beginning. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: keep going, Men and women.

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Speaker 2: Are one, but we have different functions.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so so.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, so family. It says of Jesus and his family

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Speaker 2: that Joseph, Mary and Jesus went up to the festivals

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Speaker 2: every year, which is not every family did that because

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Speaker 2: it's expensive. The second tithe like over and tabernacles are

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Speaker 2: a week long, which means you've got to shut down

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Speaker 2: your farm, shut down your business, You've got to travel

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Speaker 2: to Jerusalem. You have to have a place to stay,

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Speaker 2: you have to have food to eat, you have to

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Speaker 2: have an offering to bring. Because God says explicitly on

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Speaker 2: the pilgrim feast, do not come before me empty handed,

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Speaker 2: and never specifies how much or how little to give,

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Speaker 2: But you have to bring something. So you have to

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Speaker 2: have money enough for you to be able to leave

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Speaker 2: your secular work and come worship God. That's a very

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Speaker 2: good principle for today that family should set aside something,

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Speaker 2: take a pilgrimage to Israel, take time off, go to

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Speaker 2: a retreat, go to a conference, a revival meeting, do

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Speaker 2: something to build up your own spiritual take a course

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Speaker 2: at a Bible college, or institute something to build up

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Speaker 2: your own spirituality. And then the third tithe was for

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Speaker 2: the poor. But it's not collected every year. It's collected

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Speaker 2: every third and sixth year. In the book, I have

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Speaker 2: not only the biblical references but also historical references from

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Speaker 2: Josepha from Tobit that exemplify from the historical period of

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Speaker 2: time that these three tithes. It did exist. Okay, we've

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Speaker 2: all heard the saying out of Malachi that's preached bring

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Speaker 2: all the ties into the storehouse. There's only one tithe

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Speaker 2: that probably should have said, no ti.

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Speaker 1: I think you're right, okay, right, that would be the

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Speaker 1: right adjective. All the ties, not some of the ties

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Speaker 1: or the one tie, but all the ties.

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Speaker 2: So mostly most people have never heard of any of this.

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Speaker 2: They don't know that there's actually three tithes in the

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Speaker 2: Mosaic Covenant. But the Mosaic Covenant also had no taxis

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Speaker 2: because the government was administered by the priests, levites and

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Speaker 2: the tribal Nobody was collecting for roads or fire departments

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Speaker 2: or police departments or any of this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: This system had to do with the socio economic system

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Speaker 2: of Israel. Now another thing surprises people greatly. And I've

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Speaker 2: only met three people in my life that knew this

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Speaker 2: before I told them. According to Jewish law and to

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Speaker 2: our own day, tithing is on your requirement for a

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Speaker 2: Jew if he lives in the land of Visral. People

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Speaker 2: go what I said. The forty years they wanted in

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Speaker 2: the wilderness, there's no tithing. Now, they did take up

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Speaker 2: a collection for the tabernacle. Just like in the time

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Speaker 2: of Jesus, there was a temple tax. Everyone twenty an

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Speaker 2: order was required to pay half shekel temple tax. So

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Speaker 2: millions of dollars came to the temple every year from

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Speaker 2: all around the world. But tithing was only a requirement

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Speaker 2: if you lived in the Land of Israel. It comes

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Speaker 2: from Deuteronomy chapter six, where it says, these are the

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Speaker 2: laws you are to obey when you come into the land.

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Speaker 2: So it wasn't until they entered the land that tithing began.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's so interesting. I want to pause there for

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Speaker 1: just a moment. That's fascinating. There is a parallel too,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of people will criticize things that are

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Speaker 1: some certain civic laws that we have in the Old

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Speaker 1: Testament that applied only to the nation of Israel. There

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Speaker 1: are a lot of laws that they're like, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: you'll get criticisms. Well, I notice that you're planning two

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Speaker 1: seeds right next to each other, and you're not supposed

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Speaker 1: to do that. You Oh, look, you're wearing two different

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Speaker 1: types of fabric. There were certain things that happened in

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Speaker 1: the Old Testament that applied to the nation of Israel

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Speaker 1: that do not apply to other nations. I don't know

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Speaker 1: about you, Cliff. I am not a citizen of the

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Speaker 1: ancient nation of Israel. I'm not a citizen of the

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Speaker 1: modern nation of Israel. I am not one of those citizens.

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Speaker 1: We are subject to the laws of the nation that

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Speaker 1: we live in, not some ancient because the laws of

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Speaker 1: modern day Israel are different than ancient day Israel. So

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Speaker 1: I just want to bring that home. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of criticism that we get in Christianity sometimes, well, you're

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Speaker 1: not doing this and you're not doing that. It's an

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Speaker 1: Old Testament law that only applied to the ancient nation

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Speaker 1: of Israel. And even in the ancient nation of Israel,

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Speaker 1: they weren't required to do these tithes until they came

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Speaker 1: into the land, which they were wandering around the desert

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Speaker 1: for forty years, So they weren't tithing. That is a

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Speaker 1: really incredible point that, like you said, most people don't

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Speaker 1: know that. Yea, let's get back to this, this part

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Speaker 1: about the money. So I so they weren't subject to

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Speaker 1: the tithe while they were in the wilderness. That tithe

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Speaker 1: wasn't required until they came into possession of the promised

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Speaker 1: land once.

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Speaker 2: Once Joshua, once they entered the land, then it's responsible

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Speaker 2: for the tithe, the socio economic system of the state

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Speaker 2: of Israel. Okay, so there is no question of taxes

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Speaker 2: or any of this. This all this comes much later.

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Speaker 2: Also in my book, I have a chapter dealing on

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Speaker 2: the age old question if I'm a tither, do I

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Speaker 2: tie before or after taxes?

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Speaker 1: I love that one. Yeah, because what we've heard, I've

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Speaker 1: heard so many times, well do you want to be

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Speaker 1: blessed off of the gross or the net? And so

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Speaker 1: it's kind of heaping a little bit of guilt on us.

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Speaker 1: You know, how big is your faith and how much

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Speaker 1: of a blessing do you want? I thought your take

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Speaker 1: on this was really fascinating. Share that with us.

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Speaker 2: Well about ten years ago, the Lord showed me the

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Speaker 2: answer to this question, and it was out of the

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Speaker 2: mouth of Jesus. Because taxes were oppressive at the time

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Speaker 2: of Jesus. I have the data in my book. It

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Speaker 2: looks like they were paying somewhere between forty and fifty

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Speaker 2: percent taxes. I have the data in my book that

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Speaker 2: we're probably be paying over fifty percent of our taxes.

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Speaker 2: Taxes are one thing you cannot tell me how much

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Speaker 2: you pay because there's too many of them. If you

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Speaker 2: start thinking about every place you pay a tax, right,

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Speaker 2: there are so many. But there's a situation like I'm

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Speaker 2: like you, what I normally would hear? A pastor says, well,

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Speaker 2: you want to be blessed on the greater or the

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Speaker 2: lesser amount? Yeah. Well, the problem is if by the

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Speaker 2: time we get through paying all the taxes, if we're

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Speaker 2: only getting about half of what we quote unquote made,

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Speaker 2: and we're paying ten percent on that, then we're actually

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Speaker 2: paying about twenty percent of what we actually get. Most

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Speaker 2: people can't do so that's why there's only two or

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Speaker 2: three percent of the church that actually times anyway, because

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Speaker 2: most people can't make that commitment. In the story, it's

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Speaker 2: a well known story that they're trying to entrap Jesus.

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Speaker 2: They ask him is it lawful to pay taxes to

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Speaker 2: Caesar or not? So here's the backstory to that. The

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Speaker 2: Zealots believe that paying taxes to Caesar was tantamount to

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Speaker 2: idolatry because Caesar claimed to be a god. Taxes were

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Speaker 2: oppressive for the common people, so it was highly unpopular.

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Speaker 2: If he tells people not to pay taxes. They can

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Speaker 2: bring him up on charges against the Romans because he's

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Speaker 2: telling people not to pay their taxes. Does say to

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Speaker 2: pay taxes, the Zealots will not have anything to do

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Speaker 2: with them, and the people will be unhappy. Of course, Jesus,

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Speaker 2: being God, is quite clever. Yes that, they says, so

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Speaker 2: many a dinaris. Notice he's not carrying one. But they

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Speaker 2: are right. So he says, whose image and inscription is

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Speaker 2: on that? You know why I asked that question?

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Speaker 1: No, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Jesus uses very frequently a rabbinic teaching technique called rimes,

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Speaker 2: which means to hint or too lude to. So he says,

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Speaker 2: whose image and description he's making? You think God created

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Speaker 2: man in his own image? On Sinai, God inscribed the

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Speaker 2: tablets with his finger. So whose image and inscription is that?

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Speaker 2: And they say, well, Caesar's. So Jesus is therefore rendering

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Speaker 2: to Caesar that which bears his image, and under God

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Speaker 2: that which bears his image.

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Speaker 1: So brilliant.

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Speaker 2: Now, so Jesus is saying the taxes belonged to Caesar. Okay,

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Speaker 2: most people have never thought about this, But the Lord

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Speaker 2: pointed out to me there's nothing in scripture that ever

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Speaker 2: requires you to what doesn't belong to you. And I

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Speaker 2: use a modern example. If I gave you ten thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars to give to somebody else, would you tithe on

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Speaker 2: the ten thousand dollars while it was in your possession?

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Speaker 1: No, I would not know.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not yours. No, you're responsible for it. What's

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Speaker 2: in your possession. You're responsible to give it to who

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Speaker 2: it belongs to, But it's not yours, So therefore you

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Speaker 2: wouldn't tithe on it. In the same manner, taxes don't

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Speaker 2: belong to you. Not only did Jesus say that, Paul said,

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Speaker 2: give taxes to whom taxes are due, tribute to whom

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Speaker 2: tribute is due. So therefore there's no requirement to tithe

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Speaker 2: on the tax money. Now, if you're capable of doing

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Speaker 2: that and want to do that, God will bless you

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Speaker 2: for that. The only place in scripture God, ever, says

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Speaker 2: you can test him is in tithing. He says, test me,

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Speaker 2: And I had never seen anybody that made up their

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Speaker 2: mind to tithe that God didn't bless them. But are

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Speaker 2: we tithing out of a heart? Out of gratitude to God?

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Speaker 2: Are we tithing because it's a cmmamment is something I'm

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Speaker 2: supposed to do? Right? Is the law written on our hearts?

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Speaker 2: Or is it just on tablets of stone or on

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Speaker 2: printed paper? Okay, the first example of tithing in the

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Speaker 2: Bible is Abraham. Abraham ties for ingratitude for what God

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Speaker 2: had done for him. God did not command him to tithe.

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Speaker 2: There's not a sacred word about that. It's after what

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Speaker 2: God had done for Abraham he ties. And how's he tied?

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Speaker 2: Is he just throw it up in there and say, God,

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Speaker 2: you take what you want and I'll pick up what's left.

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Speaker 2: Now he gives it to a man in the earth

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Speaker 2: that represents God in the earth, like manner when we

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Speaker 2: give unto God, we give into our church or ministries

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Speaker 2: or whatever that represents God in the earth. And as

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Speaker 2: we've had the discussions in previous sessions, what if those

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Speaker 2: people are corrupt, just like the temple authorities were at

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Speaker 2: the corrupt When Jesus praised the widow for putting her

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Speaker 2: two mites in there, said she gave more than all

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Speaker 2: the others. But the temple authorities were corrupt, They were rich,

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Speaker 2: they were self serving, so they were misappropriating and misusing

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Speaker 2: funds God will judge them for what they did, but

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Speaker 2: he was blessing her for her heart and her giving.

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Speaker 2: It's really a matter of the heart. And if I

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Speaker 2: may go back, first chapter in my book is on

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Speaker 2: the underlying principle, the first and last principle of giving,

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Speaker 2: which is exemplified in Genesis, and in the first chapter

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Speaker 2: of Malachi. It says, in the course of time, Cain

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Speaker 2: gave an offering of the produce of his field. Able

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Speaker 2: gave the first lanes of fat, portions of this flock

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Speaker 2: and herd. A lot of people think that's because he

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Speaker 2: gave an animal sacrifice and came was giving grain that

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Speaker 2: he wouldn't accept it. Now, something I don't have in

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Speaker 2: my book because I just didn't think to put it

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Speaker 2: in there at the time. The word offering there is

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Speaker 2: the word meanha in Hebrew. I meanha. Offering can either

431
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 2: be grain or animal, it doesn't matter, they're equal.

432
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so I'm glad you're clear this. I was

433
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: actually going to ask you to go back because you

434
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 1: said the first tithe was Abraham, so tithe being tenth.

435
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: But we have this example of giving far earlier, and

436
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,959
Speaker 1: I have heard that that the animal sacrifice was the

437
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: one that God required, whereas the grain sacrifice wasn't what

438
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: God was asking for. But the animal sacrifice does allude

439
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: there and points forward to the need for a blood atonement.

440
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 1: But then there are grain sacrifices that are required by

441
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: God as well. So it wasn't that what he was

442
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 1: bringing was inappropriate or not what God required to what

443
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 1: was it?

444
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: Okay, what you have here? This is this is nothing

445
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,439
Speaker 2: here in Cain an able story about a sin offering.

446
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,719
Speaker 2: It's just about an offering to just bring an offering,

447
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 2: to put it terminology, Cain gave someone what he had

448
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 2: left over, able to give his best, and gave it first.

449
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's that principle of first fruits, which I

450
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about, that idea that bringing your

451
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: best not what Okay, I have a little bit left

452
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: over here, but God, what blesses God, what pleases God,

453
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 1: What God requires is that we bring him our first

454
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 1: and best.

455
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 2: Book of Malachi, first chapter. God says, I'm upset with you, priests,

456
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 2: because you dishonor me. They say, how do we dishonor you?

457
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 2: By bringing the blind, the lame, and the stolen and

458
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 2: the sacrifices? Try giving that to your governor, se if

459
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 2: he'll accept you. It's like going to the second hand

460
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: store and finding a radio coat to bring and give

461
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 2: to your wife for her birthday. Is she going to

462
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 2: accept you? I don't think so. No.

463
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: Now, just to clarify there, I do. I have five kids,

464
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: and I do go to thrift stores a lot.

465
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 2: I'm talking about the husband bringing you.

466
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,199
Speaker 1: Okay, now, I totally get that.

467
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: See, the principle is the first principle is not the quantity,

468
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 2: it's the quality. Right. You can have a little lady

469
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 2: that's living off nine hundred dollars a much so hear you,

470
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 2: Maybe the best she can give is one dollar. But

471
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 2: give it first. Don't wait to see if I got

472
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 2: anything left at the end of the month. Whatever you

473
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 2: feel the best you can give, give it first, and

474
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 2: give it with all your heart, because the quality of

475
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 2: your gift matters way more than the quantity. Which brings

476
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 2: us to the little story of the little girl in

477
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: African n IMATSI.

478
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: I love this story. Get your tissues out, everybody. Hey, friends,

479
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: it's Catherine here. If you're trying to raise godly kids

480
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: in this wild and wacky world, you need all the

481
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: help you can get. And I've got you covered. When

482
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 1: you subscribe to my website, you'll get instant access to

483
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 1: tons of free resources made just for Christian parents. You'll

484
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: get my Prodigal Bundle, which is packed with every podcast,

485
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: article and scripture list I've created for parents walking that

486
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: tough prodigal road. You'll also get my free eat book

487
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: Beyond the Lies and covering five myths the culture spreads

488
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: to mothers, plus powerful scripture list to pray over your kids,

489
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: and even scripture songs to help your family hide God's

490
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: word in your hearts without even trying. And of course

491
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: I'll keep you encouraged with my weekly newsletter full of

492
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: faith filled pep talks and outlines of what we're tackling

493
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: each week on the show. So don't miss out. Head

494
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: over to Catherine Scars dot com. That's Katherine Scars dot

495
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: com and subscribe today. Because Christian parenting may be crazy,

496
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,959
Speaker 1: but you don't have to do it alone.

497
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 2: William and Margaret Lovick were missionaries in Africa for many,

498
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 2: many years, and early on in their ministry they were

499
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: ministering in a particular part of the country and doctor

500
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 2: Lovitt was trying to figure out how to preach God

501
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 2: so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son.

502
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 2: So he was trying to find out from the tribal leaders,

503
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 2: how do I say for God so loved, you know?

504
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 2: And he would ask the chief he says, what you know,

505
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 2: how do you feel about your wife? He says, I

506
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 2: should have feel about it. I gave a goat for

507
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 2: this one and gave a chicken for that one over there.

508
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 2: And so one day there was a woman that was

509
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 2: out bathing her newborn son in the river, and she

510
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: was just saying she was so happy because this was

511
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 2: the first male child born to her husband, which in

512
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 2: their culture is a really big thing. So he went

513
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 2: out and said, Mama, tell me, how do you feel

514
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 2: about your child? You know? He says, oh, white man,

515
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 2: from the top of my head to the soles of

516
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 2: my feet, I feel strong for my baby. So then

517
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 2: he knew their word for love was I feel strong.

518
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 2: So he began to preach that God felt strong for us,

519
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 2: and so he gave his only begotten son that we

520
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,959
Speaker 2: may have eternal life. And one day he was preaching

521
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 2: and he saw somebody standing off kind of in the bush,

522
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 2: and he was curious who it was, and nobody seemed

523
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 2: to know anything about him. And a couple of weeks later,

524
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 2: this person showed up again and came walking into the

525
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: little church that they had, and this woman was a leper,

526
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 2: and she had rotten flesh. She only had a few

527
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,719
Speaker 2: fingers on one hand and just a male a flesh,

528
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 2: and people are running to get out of the way

529
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: from her. And she comes up and says, you lie,

530
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 2: white man, you lie. Says no one has ever felt

531
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: strong for me, and he says, oh, mama, surely your

532
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 2: mom your dad said no. And then she tells the

533
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: story when she was a little girl, her dad noticed

534
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 2: the little specs on her flesh, and he called over

535
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 2: and says, Izzy, daddy's got to play a little game

536
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: with you. And he took a piece of cotton, touched

537
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: her several different places and says, tell me where daddy's

538
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 2: And finally he was touching her nose and says, you're

539
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 2: not touching me, daddy, and he takes out a knife

540
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 2: and slips her nose open, and all of a sudden,

541
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 2: she feels blood running down her face and she looks

542
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: up and says, daddy, what have you done? And he

543
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 2: starts yelling leper leper, I say you must, you must leave.

544
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 2: The law of the village is, no leper can live

545
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 2: in the village You must go and live in the

546
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: jungle and die into jungle. So she was ran out

547
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: of the village and went to live in the jungle

548
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 2: and eventually took up with a witch doctor whop she

549
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 2: helped murder numbers children. And she said, no man, no

550
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 2: one has ever felt strong for me. And he said

551
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 2: he had never felt such darkness in his life. And

552
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 2: they began to just pray and pray and pray, and

553
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 2: the church began to pray, and eventually she said, oh,

554
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: there is a God. There is. He says, how do

555
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: you know, Mommy says, because I am my heart feel

556
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: for God. God had touched her. God had brought life

557
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: and love into her heart. And the village prepared a

558
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 2: little hut for her. They kind of kept her there,

559
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 2: and doctor Levick taught the people to give She's like

560
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 2: in the Bible, and they bring chickens or wat or

561
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: corn or you know whatever. And he taught them to

562
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: tithe just biblically the way it was. And there was

563
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: a big offering they were having coming up, and Otzi

564
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: wanted to have something to give to God, and so

565
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: she goes off to the neighboring villages and begs to

566
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 2: be able to glean peanuts as the people are harvesting

567
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: the peanuts, and she's allowed to do that, and in

568
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 2: the process of it, she lost a finger trying to

569
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 2: dig up peanuts. Her feet were so bloody from just

570
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: going around rubbing and the soil enough to try to

571
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 2: get up a few peanuts. And after over a week

572
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,239
Speaker 2: he had a small bag of peanuts that she'd been

573
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: able to collect. And the day of the church service,

574
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 2: from everybody was going to bring their offerings. She's coming

575
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: up the aisle bringing this little bag of peanuts and

576
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 2: a little kid had a chicken tied to a string.

577
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 2: He was going to walk the chicken up, and the

578
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: chicken broke loose and took off, and the kid took

579
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 2: off after the chicken, and then he hit Otzi, knocked

580
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 2: her down, knocked the peanuts out of her hand. And

581
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 2: then the people are bringing their offerings and they're trampling

582
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 2: on her peanuts, and she just starts crying. She says, oh, no,

583
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 2: I wanted God to see me bring my offering. And

584
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: then so the people are trying to help her up

585
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 2: and gathering up the nuts as much as they could

586
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,239
Speaker 2: and get them back in her little bag, and then

587
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 2: somebody was going to try to help her carry up

588
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: for it, she says, no, I wanted God to see

589
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: me bring my offering. And she comes up to doctor

590
00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 2: Lovick with this little bitty bag of peanuts, and God says,

591
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 2: the doctor, love you, mark this and never forget it,

592
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: because this is the greatest offering your eyes will ever behold.

593
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 2: He is the Lord. It's a few says worth the peanuts.

594
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: He says, oh yeah, ask her how she got them.

595
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: It's the giver, it's the heart. And then after that,

596
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: Otsy asked, said, do you think God would heal me

597
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 2: because I brought an offering? And he said, I see

598
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: God to hear you if you had nothing to bring.

599
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,959
Speaker 2: They prayed for her. Nothing happened. They prayed for her

600
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: the next week. Nothing happened. They prayed for her the

601
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 2: next week, nothing happened. All of a sudden, the next

602
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 2: week she reached out. She was cooking something at all

603
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 2: Hut and it burned her leprosy. You lose all feeling.

604
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 2: I can't feel anything. All of a sudden, she felt

605
00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, she felt the ground beneath her

606
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 2: eat when she came to the church that Sunday, she

607
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 2: could she could feel the concrete of the floor that

608
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 2: was cold. She had never felt that before. And she

609
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 2: and she told people God had healed her of her leprosy.

610
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 2: Now he didn't didn't replace her fingers and all that,

611
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 2: but he had healed her of her leprosy. Her spots

612
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 2: were gone. She was healed. And then and then she

613
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 2: just prayed for God to fill her with the Holy Spirit,

614
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 2: and they prayed for her. The Holy Spirit fell in

615
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 2: this woman. Now she lived in an area where they

616
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 2: spoke French. But sorry and the LEVICX of course knew English,

617
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 2: but that part of the Africa they didn't speak, so

618
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 2: it's doubtful that she had never heard any English. The

619
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 2: Holy Spirit fell on her and for over twenty minutes

620
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 2: she recited the Psalms in English, perfect English, reminiscent of

621
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: the day of Pentecost. Yes, I mean she spoke the

622
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 2: language she did not know, probably never had even heard.

623
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: But God said to doctor Loveck, this is the greatest

624
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 2: offering you'll ever see. It wasn't the quantity, it was

625
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 2: the quality. Where is your heart? I have a chapter

626
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 2: in my book called the Heart of the Matter, The

627
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 2: Heart of the Matter, it's the heart that matters. And

628
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 2: I make the statement God wants your money. He doesn't

629
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: need your money. Everything you have comes from him. You're

630
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 2: just a steward over a portion of God's creation. So

631
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 2: why does God want your money? Because he wants your heart.

632
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,479
Speaker 2: And Jesus said, where your treasure is, there, your heart

633
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 2: will be. Also, people always spend money on what they love, shoes, clothing, cars, vacations,

634
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 2: vacation homes, whatever it is. People spend money on what

635
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 2: they love. And I tell people, you tell me you

636
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 2: love God in his kingdom, show me your chickbook and

637
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 2: I can tell you where you do or not. And

638
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 2: there's a chapter in the book on God's welfare plan,

639
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: which is absolutely brilliant. There are lots of things in

640
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 2: the book that people just have to get the book

641
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 2: to read through. But I have over seven hundred scriptures

642
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: in the book because it's what the Bible says. Most

643
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 2: books will give you a passage you have to go

644
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 2: look up. I've been a Bible teacher for forty years. I

645
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,760
Speaker 2: know people don't look up the passage So what's important

646
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 2: is what do the scriptures themselves say. So I have

647
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 2: the scriptures in the book so that people can see

648
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 2: and understand how God sees giving the importance of giving.

649
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 2: You know, even the sages say he who receives charity

650
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 2: is obligated to give charity. It's like blood. It has

651
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 2: to flow. It can't be like the dead sea that

652
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 2: only takes in. See the dead sea, things flow in.

653
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 2: Water flows in, but it doesn't flow out right, so

654
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: it becomes dead. So it's a matter of love. It's

655
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 2: really a matter of love. That's God is love. Does

656
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,240
Speaker 2: the love of God dwell in our hearts? Paul wrote

657
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: to the Corinthians, Let every man give as he purposes

658
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 2: in his heart, willingly and not under compulsion. Now does

659
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 2: that mean that we shouldn't give a tithe? Paul wrote

660
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: that everything that was written and the Old Testament is

661
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 2: written as our example. There's not on any example for

662
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 2: a tithe. There's an example for three tithes. I need

663
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 2: to give and support of those in full time ministry.

664
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 2: I need to set something aside from my family for

665
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: our spiritual growth, and I need to remember those less

666
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 2: fortunate than me, those that are poor, and if everything

667
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 2: is written as our example, then how do we take

668
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,919
Speaker 2: this and apply it in our lives? So yeah, it's

669
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 2: not a requirement that I give ten percent, but it's

670
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,919
Speaker 2: an example that I give ten percent. And the chief

671
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 2: example is with Abraham because he ties to God in

672
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: gratitude for what God had done for him. Jacob's the

673
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 2: same way. Jacob's the second example of tithing. He says,

674
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 2: if you if you do all these things for me

675
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 2: and bring me back safely, then I'll give you a

676
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 2: tenth of everything He's given ingratitude, not as a commandment.

677
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 2: There's not a commandment until the Mosaic Covenant, and that

678
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,919
Speaker 2: pertains to their whole social economic system. But I hear

679
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 2: I hear pastors say if you're not tithing and you're

680
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 2: stealing from God. So there's they're implying. It becomes implicit

681
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: that if you're not giving a minimum of ten percent,

682
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 2: and they kind of expect it to be over the gross,

683
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 2: not the that you're just not really tithing, so you know,

684
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 2: you're just stealing from God. You're just you know, you're

685
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 2: just way less than satisfactory. That's not what scripture says.

686
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 2: That's not what scripture really teaches. What scripture really teaches

687
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 2: is do you love God in his kingdom? Do you

688
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 2: want to be a participant in God and his the kingdom?

689
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: And he's given us the example of the ten percent.

690
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:55,839
Speaker 2: And you know, but I'll go back to that little

691
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 2: lady living off nine hundred dollars a month soial security.

692
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 2: Maybe she can't give ten percent and actually pay her

693
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: bills and her medicine. Maybe Elhian gives a dollar, but

694
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 2: give it first. Don't like to see for something left

695
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: to work the end of the month. Give it first,

696
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 2: Give it with all your heart. God will honor that,

697
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 2: He'll take it, and he'll bless it, and he'll increase you.

698
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 1: That is so beautiful, Cliff. I really think that's freeing,

699
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: you know, and looking back at your own testimony, this

700
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: minister showing up to your grandmother's house demanding back tithes.

701
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: Here's a woman who can't even get out of the

702
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: house to go to church. And so we have these

703
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 1: visuals in the church and it's very wounding to people,

704
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: and it breeds so much mistrust in the church and

705
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: these ministers. And like you know, we went over in

706
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: the last episode all the Charlatan's out there trying to

707
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: profit off the Gospel. And yet it's our divinely inspired

708
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: model that we can look at these things in the

709
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: Old Testament, and we then with the combination of the

710
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 1: New Testaments, those tithes don't apply to us. We're not

711
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: citizens of the ancient nation of Israel. And yet to

712
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: purpose it in our hearts out of gratitude for all

713
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: that God has done for us, and out of a

714
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: genuine desire to invest in His kingdom. And where your

715
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,919
Speaker 1: treasure is, there will your heart be also. And we're

716
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: told in scripture, we're told to build our treasure in

717
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: those eternal places. Right, And when we invest in Kingdom work,

718
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: when we invest in God's plans and purposes in the earth,

719
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: we're making it an eternal investment. All of this our

720
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: for one case, are going to pass away our bank accounts.

721
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 1: You can't take it with you. They will pass away

722
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: all of this. Everything we could invest in this world

723
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: will pass away. Only what's done for Christ will last.

724
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,280
Speaker 1: And when we invest in this Kingdom, we can ensure

725
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: that that will last. The other principle I'd like to

726
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: touch on in our closing moments is that when we

727
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: tie that helps to break us from this incessant human

728
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 1: tendency that we all have to be addicted to the material,

729
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 1: to materialism, and that has throughout all of human history

730
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: been something that we are uniquely prone to as human beings.

731
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: I don't think dogs go around worrying about where the

732
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: next meal is going to come from, or the feline kingdom,

733
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 1: wherever it is out in the world. They're not worrying

734
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: about those things. We have all of these anngsts and worries.

735
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: But here we are when we can invest in the kingdom,

736
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: When we can regularly, with a heart of gratitude, give

737
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: something first, trusting that God will provide for our needs

738
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: after that, that helps to break us from that spirit

739
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: of materialism that distances us from God, doesn't it.

740
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 2: Cliff? Yeah? Absolutely. You know, giving is the antidote to greed,

741
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 2: and greed is a dark thing. You know. In Discermined

742
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: on the Mount, Jesus says, do not store up treasure

743
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 2: on earth, were mouth or rust corrupt with these breakthrough

744
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,959
Speaker 2: and steel, But READI let treasure in heaven, For where

745
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 2: your treasure is there, your heart will be. Also. The

746
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 2: lamp of the body is the eye. Now here's where

747
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 2: you get marriage. That's an exaggeration, but there's many different

748
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 2: translations on this passage. Some say, if your eyes are healthy,

749
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,760
Speaker 2: or somebody, if your eyes clear, if the King James,

750
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 2: if your eyes single, your body will be full of light.

751
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 2: Your eyes evil, your body be full of darkness. And

752
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 2: when I was a kid, this really puzzled me because

753
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 2: my preachers told me that having a single eye meant

754
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,720
Speaker 2: to be single minded. On the Lord, but Jesus starts

755
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 2: off by talking about laying up treasure in heaven and

756
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 2: not on earth. Okay, now he's talking about being single minded,

757
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 2: and then he goes back to say, well, you can't

758
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 2: serve God and mammon, you can't serve God in possessions.

759
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 2: And I was like, the Lord's schizophrenic because he's talking

760
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 2: about treasure and then he's talking about being single minded,

761
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 2: and then he goes back to talking about money. And Well,

762
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 2: in my studies through the years, I came to learn

763
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 2: that the reason this is difficult it's trying to translate

764
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 2: a Hebrew idiom. Yes, Lookai and too Vah have a

765
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 2: good eye. It's good eye and evil eye are used

766
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 2: in the Old Testament as for good eye means to

767
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 2: be a generous giver. Evil eye means to be a stingy,

768
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 2: miserly person. It's actually used in Israel to this day

769
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 2: when they're collecting for various charities like the cancer Fund

770
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 2: or whatever. They say, want you have a good eye.

771
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 2: Oh so it has nothing to do with single mindedness

772
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 2: all that. This is all in the book with the examples,

773
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 2: and the various translations of that are in different translations

774
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 2: of this. But Jesus, what Jesus is telling you is

775
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 2: how you start treasure in heaven by being a generous giver.

776
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 2: But if you're a miserly, stingy person, you're full of darkness.

777
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: And how great is that darkness? You can always take

778
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 2: a look at. Sometimes you'll see people that are public

779
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 2: figures and then they'll tell you. They'll show you what

780
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 2: they actually gave for charity and it's like next to nothing. Yeah,

781
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 2: it's the way you stop treasure in heaven is by

782
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 2: being a generous giver. And this is all documented in

783
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 2: the book. This is not made up. It's in the

784
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 2: Old Testaments. It's in the New Testament. As a matter

785
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: of fact, it's used another wording at different places in

786
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 2: New Testament. Luke says give alms, provide yourself a treasure

787
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:37,399
Speaker 2: in heaven. See it's all. If you catch the little

788
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 2: differences all throughout the scripture, it clearly shows you how

789
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 2: you stort treasure in heaven. So we all have a

790
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 2: we all have a heavenly bank account. The question is

791
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 2: are we putting anything in it?

792
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: Good question.

793
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 2: So when this world's over, what have we got stored

794
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 2: up for the world to come? And that will be

795
00:44:53,840 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 2: far more important than anything you stored up in this world.

796
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: Yes, and I would recommend to people, if this is

797
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: an area where you have been wounded in the past,

798
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 1: I would encourage you really to take this to the

799
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: Lord and ask the Lord to help you find some

800
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:18,959
Speaker 1: freedom here, because, like you said, it's not a commandment

801
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: for us to tithe, but it is our divinely inspired model.

802
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I like your summary on

803
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: page one fifty seven. You said, quote, all too often

804
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: tithing is taught as a commandment rather than as our

805
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: divinely inspired model. There isn't a commandment in the New

806
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: Testament for gentile believers to tithe. Likewise, and Judaism, there

807
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: isn't a commandment for a gentile to tithe, And there

808
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: is no commandment for a Jew to tie if he

809
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: lives outside the land of Judea. But tithing is our

810
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,720
Speaker 1: great example from the foundation of our faith. It's the

811
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: only thing in the Bible by which God says you

812
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,320
Speaker 1: can test him Malanchi three ten, bring all the ties

813
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: into the store, that there may be food in my house,

814
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: and try me now in this end quote, I think

815
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: that's such a great summary, because there is so so

816
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: much bad teaching on this, so much errant teaching on this,

817
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: and your book sets the record straight that we're not required.

818
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: And yet as believers, we want to be funding a

819
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,919
Speaker 1: heavenly bank account. And it's the natural response when we're

820
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: truly grateful for all that God has done for us,

821
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: and first and foremost that He is our first love. Therefore,

822
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: just as when we love something here on earth, like

823
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: our children, show me a grandparent who loves his grandchildren,

824
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: they're spending some money there, They're spending some coin. And

825
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: think back, when you met your spouse, someone you fell

826
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,839
Speaker 1: in love with. What happens we start spending money on

827
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: that person because we love that person. So if God

828
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: has priorities of things he wants to accomplish here in

829
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: the earth, and we love God that those are going

830
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: to become our priorities and we're going to want to

831
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,959
Speaker 1: fund that. Scripture doesn't tell us exactly what that needs

832
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: to look like. We should ask in our own heart

833
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,280
Speaker 1: and give what God has laid on our hearts to give.

834
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 1: And so where that air and teaching is out there,

835
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 1: I hope that my listeners are going to find some

836
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: freedom there, but also find freedom to enjoy giving. Again.

837
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: One of my favorite things I do. My husband and

838
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: I do. He has an income where we have a

839
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 1: certain percentage that we give of his income his regular salary,

840
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 1: but then he'll get bonuses. And one thing we do

841
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: is we set aside money from the bonus and this

842
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: is the funnest thing ever. It never ceases to fail us.

843
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,839
Speaker 1: Something will happen and somebody is going to have a need.

844
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 1: It always comes up after we set up aside the money,

845
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: and then there's someone who needs something or something we

846
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: want to give to. And every single time, it's like

847
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 1: we're able to cheerfully and gratefully give to that person

848
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: that need because we've already got money set aside for it.

849
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 1: And it's super fun to do this. We've had so

850
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 1: many instances where something will come up. We had a

851
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: pastor once that they were celebrating an anniversary and they

852
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: already bought the ticket to go, but they didn't have

853
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: enough money to pay for the trip and they were

854
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: going to have to cancel it. And I'm like, oh,

855
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 1: I already got this money set aside. Here you go,

856
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 1: you take it. There's so many instances where this has

857
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: happened in our life where we've been able to give.

858
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: It's such a beautiful thing to do. So I encourage you,

859
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: if you've been wounded in this area, take that to

860
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: the Lord, but also test them in this God has

861
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 1: been faithful time and time and time again. We've been

862
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,320
Speaker 1: through a lot of job changes, but God has always

863
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: been there, like immediately to provide for us when we've

864
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: been in need. And I know I know why that is.

865
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 1: It's because we have been faithful to invest in His kingdom.

866
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 1: And what are we told in Matthew, seek he first

867
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,200
Speaker 1: the Kingdom of God and his righteousness, and then all

868
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: of these other things will be added to you. So

869
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 1: we need to seek first the Kingdom of God and

870
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 1: our finances as well as every other place. So take

871
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: the take the last word thereff.

872
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 2: And it's something that is often said, end up prosperity messages.

873
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 2: It's true, you can't outgive God. That is true, God

874
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 2: gave to begin with. God so loved the world that

875
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 2: he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in

876
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 2: him should not perish, but have eternal life. So the

877
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 2: Lord said, look at the lilies. Look if he clothes them,

878
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: how much more if he provides food for the for

879
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 2: the birds of the air, how much more will he

880
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 2: provide for you? As we learn to trust him more

881
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 2: and more, as we learn to put him first place

882
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 2: in our life more and more. It's my hope that

883
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 2: this book will be successful and widely read, not for

884
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: my benefit, but because it will become a useful tool.

885
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 2: Because all of these things are really scattered throughout the Bible.

886
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 2: It's hard to see this stuff and piece it together.

887
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 2: So a lot of work went into this were And

888
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 2: you can testify it's not a super thick book. It's

889
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 2: you know, it's a half an inch thick. One thing

890
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 2: I learned as a Bible teacher. Three inch books scared

891
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 2: people to death.

892
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: That is true, and seldom do I complete one of

893
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,280
Speaker 1: those books. I have a lot of them, and I've

894
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: read a lot of those books, but yeah, they are

895
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 1: a little scary. Your book is just very user friendly, though, Cliff,

896
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: this has been so freeing and so liberating. Thank you

897
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 1: for setting the record straight about what scripture teaches when

898
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: it comes to our finances. Why don't you tell our

899
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 1: listeners where they can get a copy of what the

900
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 1: Bible says about tithing and giving. It is different than

901
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 1: you think. It's different than you think. Let me rephrase that.

902
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: You've got a contraction there. It's different than you think.

903
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:48,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's available Amazon, Barnes, and Noble Books a Midian.

904
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 2: Probably the easiest way for most people is just go

905
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 2: to Amazon, because since it's a long title, if you'll

906
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 2: just type in my name Clifton H. Payne Jr. It'll

907
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 2: pull the book right up. It's nineteen ninety none for

908
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 2: a paperback, so it's not very expensive and the paperback

909
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 2: comes rather quickly. For those who prefer digital, it's available

910
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: on Kindle. There's also a hardback edition. They tell me

911
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 2: it takes a lot longer to get that one, so

912
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 2: you may just want to get the paperback version. But

913
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 2: I hope it'll be a blessing for people and give

914
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 2: them a resource. That's a handbook that if anybody ever

915
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,879
Speaker 2: wants to challenge them on what scripture says, you've got

916
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 2: a resource to go to and say, oh, this is

917
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 2: what the Bible says.

918
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: Yes, and you've got all those scriptures in their moms

919
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: and dads. When we give generously, we teach our kids

920
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: to trust God generously. Thank you so much, Gleff, thank you.

921
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: Before we close, I want to share something really fascinating

922
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 1: that happened just yesterday. I was helping with a student

923
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 1: budgeting project where high school seniors were given a fictional

924
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: job and a fictional family with a fictional income, and

925
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: they had to figure out how to pay for their

926
00:51:55,840 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: housing and transportation, childcare, utilities, groceries, and even entertainment. It's

927
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 1: just like you know, real life for us parents. That

928
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: was the idea of the project. So at the very

929
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 1: bottom of the worksheet they had dead last was a

930
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: line item that simply said donations. Now it was you know,

931
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:19,240
Speaker 1: created by a secular organization, so the category was generic.

932
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: I didn't say tithing, our missions or church on it.

933
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: But the placement said everything that is where our culture

934
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 1: is and sadly, so much of the church is right

935
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:36,240
Speaker 1: along with our culture on this issue. Giving is dead last.

936
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: We just give God our leftovers. Now, my friend Lydia

937
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: and I were stationed at the entertainment table in order

938
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: to help students decide whether they could even afford entertainment

939
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 1: with their income and family situation. But every student who

940
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 1: came through we paused and talked to about the principle

941
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 1: of first fruits, and we gently redirected them all to

942
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 1: the giving and said, hey, you know, you guys should

943
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 1: determine what you're going to give first, not last. Now,

944
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: both Lydia and I have been married for over thirty

945
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: years and we can say without hesitation that God has

946
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 1: been so faithful to us because we have chosen to

947
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 1: give first. And I was so encouraged to see how

948
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 1: many of these students came back to our table, the

949
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: entertainment table, with healthy giving to God's work built into

950
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 1: their budgets before anything else. Now, if you teach your

951
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,839
Speaker 1: kids this principle while they're still under your roof, it

952
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 1: becomes so much easier for them to live it out

953
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: once they're out on their own. But with that said,

954
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 1: I also want to acknowledge something important many parents listening

955
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 1: to this episode, I'm sure didn't learn how to do

956
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: that as a child. They didn't have that role modeled

957
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 1: for them. And you may be living paycheck to paycheck

958
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: and you've heard teaching like this before on tithing and giving,

959
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 1: and I know that the idea of giving first feels terrifying,

960
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,840
Speaker 1: especially if you've never done it before. So don't start

961
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 1: with pressure, you guys, don't do that. Just start with

962
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: a prayer, ask God what he would have you to give,

963
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,760
Speaker 1: and then when your paycheck comes, do it. Just give first,

964
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: test him. He will be faithful. And always remember God

965
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,720
Speaker 1: gave you your kids, your specific kids for a reason.

966
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:30,399
Speaker 1: That's because you hold the key to unlock and who

967
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: God created them to be. We'll see you next time,

968
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,760
Speaker 1: Christian parent Crazy World is a production of Life Audio

969
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: and Salem Media. If you liked what you heard today,

970
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 1: please take a second to rate and review this podcast

971
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,719
Speaker 1: in your favorite podcast app so that more listeners like

972
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 1: you can find the show.

973
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 2: For more faith filled inspirational podcasts, visit us at lifeaudio

974
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 2: dot com.