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Speaker 1: Life Audio. Hi there, it's Dana sche and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Rebuilding US Marriage Podcast. What we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about today is Deborah and lapidofs. Most Biblical translations first

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Speaker 1: describe Deborah as a prophet, one who hears from God

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Speaker 1: and speaks on God's behalf. What a warrior woman she

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Speaker 1: must have been. If you're a woman reading or listening

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Speaker 1: to this, you need to know that you are not

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Speaker 1: second class citizens in the Kingdom of God. Hey. Hey, everybody,

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Speaker 1: it's Danache and you're listening to the Rebuilding US Marriage Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited about this podcast you all because I've

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Speaker 1: never done anything like this before on an episode. So

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Speaker 1: you are here today for story time. Now, if you

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Speaker 1: grew up like me, I grew up loving stories. My

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Speaker 1: mom was a middle school and high school English teacher,

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Speaker 1: and she is really the one that started me on

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Speaker 1: this love for books. I remember being a kid and

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Speaker 1: asking her to drop me off at the library where

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Speaker 1: I would spend hours devouring books. I had books and

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Speaker 1: books and books and books and books. And today, obviously

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Speaker 1: is what I do as a marriage coach and a

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Speaker 1: podcast host and a speaker and now an author, I

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Speaker 1: get to tell incredible stories all day and it is

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Speaker 1: such a privilege for me today to be able to

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Speaker 1: read to you an excerpt from my brand new book,

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Speaker 1: Tried and True Marriage Advice from twelve imperfect Biblical couples.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't already pre ordered the book, make sure

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Speaker 1: the head over to Tried and truemarriagebook dot com, where

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Speaker 1: you'll find the links to either pre order or to

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Speaker 1: order the book, depending on of course, when you're listening

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Speaker 1: to this episode, So without any further ado, you all,

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Speaker 1: we're going to jump right in. I just have to

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Speaker 1: tell you that this whole project has been rife with

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Speaker 1: spiritual warfare. Like when I tell you all the things

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Speaker 1: that have gone wrong, the chapter that have been deleted

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Speaker 1: like randomly, it has been crazy. I'll have to maybe

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Speaker 1: do like a whole episode on like all the spiritual

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Speaker 1: warfare that has surrounded this book, And honestly, to me,

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Speaker 1: that just lets me know that God is really going

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Speaker 1: to use this book to really transform marriages, and I

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Speaker 1: hope one of those marriages is yours. So, without any

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Speaker 1: further ado, we're going to jump right in. This is

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Speaker 1: good practice for me because I'm going to be releasing

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Speaker 1: the audiobook for Tried and True in just a few months. Again,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure when you're listening to this episode, it

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Speaker 1: might already be out. Perhaps it is, And I'm going

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Speaker 1: to read to you an excerpt, but so also show

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Speaker 1: you a little bit about what the book is about.

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Speaker 1: So you get a free teaser as I read to

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Speaker 1: you one chapter of this book. Now, I wanted to

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Speaker 1: read this chapter on gender roles because gender roles is

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Speaker 1: one of those things that's very talked about in culture

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Speaker 1: right now. Everyone's talking about what is the appropriate gender role,

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Speaker 1: and even in the church, and as Christians, we're having

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Speaker 1: to ask ourselves what should a husband do, what should

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Speaker 1: a wife do? What roles are biblical? And then what

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Speaker 1: roles are godly? And let me just bring a real

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Speaker 1: quick distinction to the two. I stand tintoes down on

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Speaker 1: the Word of God, okay, meaning I do not cherry

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Speaker 1: pick scripture. I'm not trying to change scripture. I believe

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Speaker 1: that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. However,

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Speaker 1: there are some things that are biblical that are not

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Speaker 1: necessarily cultural okay, or culturally accepted. So, for example, in

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Speaker 1: the Book of Vitigas they were told Now obviously this

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Speaker 1: is Old Covenant. Right in the Book of Leviticus, there

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Speaker 1: are lots of rules that they had to follow, things

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Speaker 1: like do not mix sure linen's and your wolves. Well,

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Speaker 1: we don't really abide by those things. Biblical womanhood, I mean,

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Speaker 1: shout outs to Rachel held Evans, who wrote this whole

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Speaker 1: book on Biblical womanhood. She literally, like, verse by verse,

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Speaker 1: line by line, practiced in real time what it would

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Speaker 1: look like if we were following quote biblical womanhood. So,

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Speaker 1: all of you menstruating women, you're unclean. Unclean right, thank God?

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Speaker 1: That is not culturally acceptable anymore. So the reason that

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Speaker 1: I'm bringing this up is not to confuse you, especially

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Speaker 1: if you're new to the faith. Don't be confused, but

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Speaker 1: read the Bible under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit,

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Speaker 1: allowing him to shed light on these ancient texts. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what we're going to talk about today is Deborah and Lapidos,

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Speaker 1: and y'all are like Lappa who. Well, that's another reason

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Speaker 1: that I'm picking this particular chapter because one of the

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Speaker 1: things that I really strove to do with Try It

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Speaker 1: and True was I didn't want to just talk about

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Speaker 1: couples that everybody knows about. I wanted to choose some

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Speaker 1: more obscure couples, So like I didn't, there's not a

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Speaker 1: chapter in this book about Ruth and Boaz, because if

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Speaker 1: you've been a Christian for two minutes, you probably know

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Speaker 1: that story. And it doesn't mean that there's not goodness there.

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Speaker 1: But I really wanted to choose some other couples that

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Speaker 1: maybe you didn't know a lot about. So Deborah and

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Speaker 1: Lapidoss is what we're going to be talking about today.

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Speaker 1: And this particular chapter is called gender Roles that don't

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Speaker 1: Fit the mold. All right, if you're driving, or if

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Speaker 1: you are taking a shower, or on a run, or

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Speaker 1: maybe even laying down, Oh, I'm so happy for you

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Speaker 1: because you get to just close your eyes and listen

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Speaker 1: as I read this chapter. If you're driving, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: need to keep those eyes open. But still I hope

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Speaker 1: that you get lost in the story. All right. Here

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Speaker 1: we go, leading with strength and confidence and uncommon circumstances.

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Speaker 1: Then the people of Israel cried out to the Lord

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Speaker 1: for help, for he Sisarah had nine hundred chariots of iron,

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Speaker 1: and he oppressed the people of Israel cruelly for twenty years. Now,

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Speaker 1: Deborah a Prophetess, the wife of Lapidov, was judging Israel

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Speaker 1: at that time. She used to sit under the Palm

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Speaker 1: of Deborah, between Reima and Bethel and the hill country

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Speaker 1: of Ephraim, and the people of Israel came up to

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Speaker 1: her for judgment that judges chapter four, verses three through five.

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Speaker 1: For many Christians, the question of women and ministry still

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Speaker 1: like a live wire, sparking debate, dividing pews, and stirring

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Speaker 1: hearts that beat for the same God. I was raised

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Speaker 1: in a denomination that gripped the glass ceiling over women's

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Speaker 1: heads like a steering wheel in a sports car. As

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Speaker 1: a very young child, I felt an unfamiliar queasiness in

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Speaker 1: the pit of my stomach every time any woman who

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Speaker 1: spoke in our church was relegated to the side podium

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Speaker 1: on the floor, like a five year old in a

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Speaker 1: buffet line. Now, as an ordained pastor, my views are obvious,

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Speaker 1: But let's see what God says, shall we. Deborah was

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Speaker 1: a leader's leader. Her authority came at a critical time

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Speaker 1: in Israelite history. Due to their fickle faithfulness to God's commands,

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Speaker 1: the Israelites often found themselves subjugated to foreign oppression. This time,

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Speaker 1: in his great mercy, God heard their cries for help

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Speaker 1: and sent a solution, someone who would not only judge

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Speaker 1: domestic matters, but also courageously battle international disputes on their behalf.

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Speaker 1: A woman, a warrior, a weapon in the hand of

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Speaker 1: the Lord. It's essential to note that the judges typically

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Speaker 1: served in multiple roles. Most Biblical translations first describe Deborah

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Speaker 1: as a prophet. Only the New Living Translation and a

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Speaker 1: few others describe her first as the wife of Lapidoth.

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Speaker 1: To me, this shows that Deborah had a relationship with

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Speaker 1: God before she had a relationship with her husband. God

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Speaker 1: called her before she was called miss Lapidoth, her identity

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Speaker 1: was secure, and who created her, not and who caressed her.

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Speaker 1: Some Christian traditions only recognize a woman's role in ministry

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Speaker 1: as a homemaker. You've likely heard that a woman's first

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Speaker 1: ministry is to her husband and children. However, everyone is

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Speaker 1: called to prioritize their relationship with the Lord above their family.

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Speaker 1: For both men and women, the Lord is to be

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Speaker 1: our first ministry. Notice I said the Lord, not church work.

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Speaker 1: It's imperative not to conflate the two. When it comes

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Speaker 1: to a woman's role in ministry. We must understand the

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Speaker 1: difference between Christian tradition and Godly truth. Deborah's first ministry.

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Speaker 1: Deborah played a vital role in Israel's history before becoming

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Speaker 1: a judge. She was a prophet, one who hears from

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Speaker 1: God and speaks on God's behalf. What a weighty role.

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Speaker 1: God could have chosen anyone for this assignment, but he

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Speaker 1: chose Deborah. Don't miss the uniqueness of her role. She

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Speaker 1: was the first and only woman in Israel's history to

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Speaker 1: serve as a judge. Could God be speaking to modern

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Speaker 1: Christians from the pages of the Old Testament? If you

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Speaker 1: do a study on the lives of the other judges,

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Speaker 1: you will learn that most had major character flaws. Gideon

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Speaker 1: was bound by a stronghold of fear that constantly corroded

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Speaker 1: his courage Judges six, eleven and twenty seven. Jeptha treated

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Speaker 1: God like a foreign deity and made a rash vow

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Speaker 1: that cost him the life of his own daughter Judges eleven,

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Speaker 1: twenty nine through forty. Samson was a notorious womanizer whose arrogance, rebellion,

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Speaker 1: and haughtiness cost him his strength, his vision, and his life.

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Speaker 1: Judges fourteen one through two, verse eighteen, and also Chapter sixteen,

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Speaker 1: verse one through four, and thirty one. Even the Great

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Speaker 1: Samuel could not manage his own household well. For Timothy

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Speaker 1: three four his sons were rebels who took bribes and

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Speaker 1: perverted justice first Samuel eight three. But not Deborah. She

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Speaker 1: wasn't perfect, of course, but the scriptures record no moral

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Speaker 1: failures of character flaws in her life. Still, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: lost on the people that she was a woman. During

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Speaker 1: that time, a man named Cicero was the commander of

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Speaker 1: King Jabin's army in nearby Hazer. He had been terrorizing

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Speaker 1: the people of Israel incessantly. When the Lord told Deborah

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Speaker 1: to commission an Israelite military leader named Barak to overthrow Sisera.

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Speaker 1: Barack agreed, but only if Deborah accompanied him see Judges

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Speaker 1: four six through ten. What a warrior woman she must

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Speaker 1: have been. Let's look closer at Debra's response. Her words

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Speaker 1: reflect the common attitudes toward women at that time, and

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Speaker 1: she said, I will surely go with you. Nevertheless, the

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Speaker 1: road on which you are going will not lead to

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Speaker 1: your glory, for the Lord will sell Cisera into the

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Speaker 1: hand of a woman. Then Deborah arose and went with

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Speaker 1: Barack to Kadesh Judges four, verse nine, ESV. Essentially, Deborah

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Speaker 1: told Barak that the credit that he would have received

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Speaker 1: for this victory would go to someone lesser than him,

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Speaker 1: a woman, in this case, not Deborah herself, but another woman,

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Speaker 1: a foreign woman at that a woman named j l

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Speaker 1: See Judges four seventeen through twenty two. Two. God uses

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Speaker 1: whoever he wants. A word to the women. If you're

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Speaker 1: a woman reading or listening to this, there is much

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Speaker 1: application for you. Men. I'll get to you in a moment. Women,

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Speaker 1: you need to know that you are not second class

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Speaker 1: citizens in the Kingdom of God. Sure you might not

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Speaker 1: be able to bench press a three hundred pound barbelle

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Speaker 1: or eat like a kid on Halloween and still maintain

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Speaker 1: a six pack. However, there are myriad things that you

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Speaker 1: can do. The list is long, and my word count

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Speaker 1: is already protesting that are unique to you. But this

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Speaker 1: isn't a competition. We were created equal in the sight

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Speaker 1: of God. The irrevocable call of God applies to women

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Speaker 1: and men alike. Just ask Eve Genesis one twenty seven

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Speaker 1: through twenty eight, Miriam Exodus fifteen twenty, and Micah sixty four,

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Speaker 1: The Daughters of Zealafaiad numbers twenty seven one through eleven,

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Speaker 1: Ruth Ruth four eleven through twelve, Hulda second Chronicles thirty four,

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Speaker 1: twenty two, Esther, Esther nine twenty nine, Mary Luke one

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Speaker 1: forty five through fifty one, Anna Luke two thirty seven

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Speaker 1: through thirty eight, Priscilla Roman sixteen. Also see chapter twelve

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Speaker 1: and Lydia Acts sixteen fourteen through fifteen, and verse forty.

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Speaker 1: And that's not even the half. What is the call

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Speaker 1: of God on your life? Mighty woman of God? Are

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Speaker 1: you walking in His divine purpose for you? Or have

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Speaker 1: you allowed your call to be diminished, devalued, or discarded

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Speaker 1: by cultural or religious norms. But it's not always others

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Speaker 1: who devalue your calling, is it? Sometimes it's the woman

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Speaker 1: in the mirror dimming her light so that it won't

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Speaker 1: shine so brightly. We're gonna take a quick break, I know,

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Speaker 1: I know, for a word from our sponsor. Don't go

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Speaker 1: anywhere you all we will be or write back all right,

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Speaker 1: we are back. Before the break, we were reading about

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Speaker 1: this word to women, about not allowing yourself or others

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Speaker 1: to devalue or diminish your calling. Let's pick it up

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Speaker 1: from where we left off. Jesus affirmed women better than anyone.

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Speaker 1: Just take a scroll through the gospels to see how

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Speaker 1: he honored, protected, included, restored, and trusted women. He also said,

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Speaker 1: quote in the same way, let your light shine before others,

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Speaker 1: that they may see your good deeds and glorify your

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Speaker 1: Father in Heaven end quote Matthew five sixteen NIV. He's

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Speaker 1: talking to usus. Not every woman is called to church leadership,

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Speaker 1: nor is every man, but all are called to lead,

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Speaker 1: and the spears God and trust to them. From the

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Speaker 1: garden of Eden onward. God's design has been clear, men

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Speaker 1: and women leading together. If God is not capture calling,

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Speaker 1: neither should you. It is my hope and prayer, sister,

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Speaker 1: that like the godly women who came before you, you

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Speaker 1: would rise and take your place and the kingdom of

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Speaker 1: God in all the fullness that He has prepared for you.

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Speaker 1: Now a word to the fellas, does your wife have

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Speaker 1: a leadership gift? How are you encouraging that in her?

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Speaker 1: I implore you to take your cues from Lapidoth. Even

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Speaker 1: though we know very little about him. His name only

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Speaker 1: appears in scriptures once, and that's in Judges four to four.

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Speaker 1: Now Debrah a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth dot dot dit.

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Speaker 1: He's an obscure figure with no notable accolades or ambitions.

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Speaker 1: Some might even suggest that Lapidoth was in Deborah's shadow.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever feel that you live in the gray

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Speaker 1: edges underneath the shadow of your wife's bright light? Are

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Speaker 1: you tempted to compare your accomplishment to hers? Do people

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Speaker 1: often size you up to your wife, insinuate a deficit

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Speaker 1: in your leadership? Or God forbid? And you do righteous

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Speaker 1: people provoke you to control your woman or take the

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Speaker 1: reins in your home. This is my story, or at

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Speaker 1: least it was. I have a public facing ministry and business.

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Speaker 1: My photos, videos, and voice are all over the Internet.

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Speaker 1: I'm an occasional TV show host. I'm an ordained pastor

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Speaker 1: who serves on my church's preaching team. I'm a public speaker,

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Speaker 1: and I'm soon to be a best selling author. Come

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Speaker 1: on speak life with me. Sean is none of those things,

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Speaker 1: and he's as happy as a clam in his role.

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Speaker 1: Sean is a leader, but not a public facing one,

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Speaker 1: per se. His role has always been more behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: That is where he thrives. Fortunately, we belong to a

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Speaker 1: healthy church that doesn't pressure him to pray aloud. If

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Speaker 1: he's the only man in a prayer meeting, they don't

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Speaker 1: tell him he needs to preach or join the pastoral team,

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Speaker 1: and the only control they expect is self control. Sean

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Speaker 1: has learned to take joy in who God made him

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Speaker 1: to be and in who God created me to be.

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Speaker 1: No striving in our marriage because we refuse to engage

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Speaker 1: in it. I'm sure people have their opinions about us.

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Speaker 1: People always have opinions, mind you, but it's God's thoughts

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Speaker 1: that matter, not people's. If you find yourself succumbing to

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Speaker 1: feelings of insecurity because of your wife's role, or worse,

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Speaker 1: if you have tried to stifle or belittle your wife's leadership,

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Speaker 1: it may be time for honest self examination or to

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Speaker 1: reevaluate your theological understanding. Nowhere in scripture do we see

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Speaker 1: Lapadoff assert himself in the public square because it was

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Speaker 1: quote decent in an order quote end quote. In this case,

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Speaker 1: he would have been out of order because that was

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Speaker 1: not the lane that God gave him to run in.

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Speaker 1: Lapadoff must have been a secure man, content in serving God.

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Speaker 1: The way that best suited him, while most likely cheering

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Speaker 1: on his wife beside him. I imagine that he was

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Speaker 1: a sounding board, a safe place for Deborah to share

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Speaker 1: her burdens and her heart, and I'm sure he covered

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Speaker 1: her in prayer a word to the wise. Deborah may

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Speaker 1: have been an uncommon leader, but she was anointed and

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Speaker 1: appointed by God. Not only was Deborah a prophet, a wife,

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Speaker 1: and a judge, but she was also a songwriter and

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Speaker 1: poet see Judges five. This lady had it going on.

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Speaker 1: She exemplified what is called a multi passionate woman. Deborah

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Speaker 1: reminds me of the Proverbs thirty one woman. Many Christians

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Speaker 1: don't realize that the woman described in this well known

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Speaker 1: proverbial chapter is not an archetype to imitate, but an

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Speaker 1: exceptional allegorical description of lady Wisdom. Wisdom creates a peaceful home,

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Speaker 1: not pretentious platitudes. We are called to pursue kingdom culture,

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Speaker 1: not manufactured mantras, denominational decisions, or ostinable obligations. I believe

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Speaker 1: that Deborah and Lappadov made peace with their roles inside

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Speaker 1: and outside the home, and this piece spread into a

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Speaker 1: peaceful society. The Bible also states that God granted the

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Speaker 1: Israelites victory over Sisera. There was peace and the land

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Speaker 1: for forty years Judges five point thirty one. Through Deborah's

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Speaker 1: wisdom in Lappadolt's example, they led the way. Let Debrah's

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Speaker 1: story serve as a reminder that true peace begins with

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Speaker 1: an understanding and an embracing of your God given identity

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Speaker 1: and calling. Approach your path with confidence and courage, and

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Speaker 1: intentionally pursue His plans for your life. Your obedience to

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Speaker 1: your calling will serve as a powerful example to others,

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Speaker 1: inspiring them to lead in their own calling, even when

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Speaker 1: they find themselves leading in uncommon circumstances. Application Debra's calling

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Speaker 1: and lapidolt support help to fulfill God's kingdom purposes. If

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Speaker 1: your spouse is leading publicly resist the urge to compare

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Speaker 1: or compete, and instead celebrate the unique strength that God

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Speaker 1: has placed in your spouse. Consider naming the expectations you've

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Speaker 1: absorbed about what a husband or wife should do, and

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Speaker 1: asking whether those expectations come from God's heart or if

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Speaker 1: they come from culture. You can further apply this by

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Speaker 1: choosing to affirm one another's God given gifts and callings,

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Speaker 1: even when they don't fit traditional or familiar roles. As

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Speaker 1: you discuss this, ask each other, how can I support

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Speaker 1: you and what God has called you to do? Then

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Speaker 1: follow through with tangible actions, whether that's offering encouragement, taken

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Speaker 1: on extra responsibilities, or praying faithfully for your spouse. When

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Speaker 1: you choose to be your spouse's greatest champion, you not

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Speaker 1: only strengthen your bond but also multiply your collective impact

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Speaker 1: for God's kingdom. All right, friends, then I have some

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Speaker 1: conversation starters because I love me a good conversation, and

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Speaker 1: the truth is a lot of couples need and want

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Speaker 1: to have these deeper conversations, but they don't know how.

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Speaker 1: There's five conversation starters here. There's also a reflection question,

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Speaker 1: a space for you to write your prayer request, and

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Speaker 1: then I lead you and a guided prayer at the

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Speaker 1: end of this chapter. I'm not going to go over

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Speaker 1: all of that in the podcast, because you, my friend,

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Speaker 1: need to get the book yourself so that you can

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Speaker 1: dive deeper into those conversation starters, into the reflection, and

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Speaker 1: into the prayer. I hope that you've enjoyed the snippet

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Speaker 1: of chapter five, Deborah and lapidof gender roles that do

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Speaker 1: not fit the mold. And if you find yourself in

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Speaker 1: a marriage where maybe your role as a wife has

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Speaker 1: been questioned or challenged by someone else, or maybe even

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Speaker 1: by you, I want to encourage you to seek the

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Speaker 1: Holy Spirit's guidance in how your marriage should operate. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that Sean and I really do, I

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Speaker 1: think really well, is that we make decisions together and

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Speaker 1: we really try to keep all that extra noise out there.

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Speaker 1: This doesn't mean that we don't believe in mentorship or discipleship,

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Speaker 1: or that we think that we've got it all together.

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Speaker 1: It does mean that the more opinions in other people,

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Speaker 1: maybe they're templates and the way that they do things,

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Speaker 1: the more that stuff that comes into your marriage, the

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Speaker 1: more disunity that you're likely going to have. So thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for listening to this episode. And of course,

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Speaker 1: like I said before, if you've not already purchased your

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Speaker 1: copy or pre ordered your copy, you can head over

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Speaker 1: to Tried and truemarriagebook dot com where you can get

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Speaker 1: all the details on my newest book, Tried and True.

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Speaker 1: It's available in ebook, in paperback, and the audiobook again

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Speaker 1: that will be released here in just a few months

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Speaker 1: in the spring of twenty twenty six, depending on when

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Speaker 1: you're listening to this episode. Thanks so much for listening,

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Speaker 1: Have a great day, Take care,