1 00:00:00,030 --> 00:00:02,170 Speaker 1: Learning to see some of what God sees when he 2 00:00:02,230 --> 00:00:05,430 Speaker 1: looks at these situations is the reminder that he is 3 00:00:05,620 --> 00:00:08,260 Speaker 1: really good at what he does. He's better than me 4 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:12,020 Speaker 1: at bringing joy back into my marriage. He knows what 5 00:00:12,060 --> 00:00:13,139 Speaker 1: my marriage needs. 6 00:00:17,460 --> 00:00:20,070 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Faith Over Fear podcast, where we discuss 7 00:00:20,210 --> 00:00:24,250 Speaker 2: powerful truths to quiet anxiety and fear, big and small. 8 00:00:24,829 --> 00:00:28,630 Speaker 2: I'm Jennifer Slattery, and today's episode is for those of 9 00:00:28,690 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: you who are standing, staring at the rubble of a 10 00:00:32,540 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: fractured relationship, wondering if it's too late for God to 11 00:00:36,780 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 2: repair the damage caused by sin, dysfunction, betrayal, misunderstanding, whatever 12 00:00:42,300 --> 00:00:45,610 Speaker 2: it is. And maybe you're afraid that this relationship, whether 13 00:00:45,650 --> 00:00:49,150 Speaker 2: it's your marriage or connection with an adult child, or 14 00:00:49,210 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: maybe with your parent, If you're wondering if it's too 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:58,140 Speaker 2: broken for reconciliation and If that's where you're at, I 16 00:00:58,180 --> 00:01:01,410 Speaker 2: want to say I get it. I've been there, but 17 00:01:01,450 --> 00:01:06,570 Speaker 2: I've also experienced the beauty and the healing that can 18 00:01:06,630 --> 00:01:11,290 Speaker 2: occur when we invite God into that relational fallout that 19 00:01:11,569 --> 00:01:15,810 Speaker 2: frankly is far too complicated and consequential for us to 20 00:01:16,010 --> 00:01:20,470 Speaker 2: entangle on our own and to help us navigate this 21 00:01:20,890 --> 00:01:26,050 Speaker 2: really challenging and often challenging painful conversation, I've invited Chris Corsi, 22 00:01:26,450 --> 00:01:29,870 Speaker 2: author of The Joy Switch, How Your Brain's Secret Circuit 23 00:01:29,990 --> 00:01:34,270 Speaker 2: Affects Your Relationships and How You Can Activate It, a 24 00:01:34,370 --> 00:01:38,030 Speaker 2: book that really became a lifeline for me when I 25 00:01:38,090 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: was going through an intense relational challenge. Chris, thank you 26 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:43,059 Speaker 2: so much for joining us. 27 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,940 Speaker 3: Thank you, Jennifer. I'm really glad to be here. 28 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:50,460 Speaker 2: Chris Corsi is a pastoral counselor, author, and co-creator of 29 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:56,530 Speaker 2: Thrive Training. where he equips leaders and groups in brain-based 30 00:01:56,710 --> 00:02:02,490 Speaker 2: relational skills that strengthen relationships and help people repair their connections. 31 00:02:02,530 --> 00:02:04,970 Speaker 2: I got to say, so I have actually taken one 32 00:02:04,990 --> 00:02:08,950 Speaker 2: of your courses that was super, super helpful. And for 33 00:02:09,050 --> 00:02:12,910 Speaker 2: more than two decades, he's worked alongside Dr. Jim Wilder 34 00:02:12,950 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: to translate life model principles into practical skills that foster 35 00:02:18,470 --> 00:02:23,350 Speaker 2: lasting relational challenge. Chris, so I know you're a pastoral 36 00:02:23,389 --> 00:02:27,870 Speaker 2: counselor and all of that, but that doesn't mean you're 37 00:02:27,970 --> 00:02:34,100 Speaker 2: immune to relational storms. So I'm wondering when you found 38 00:02:34,139 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: yourself navigating a really confusing and perhaps relational fracture. 39 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,540 Speaker 1: Yes, I have a clear example come to mind with 40 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: a friend of mine. He kind of worked with my 41 00:02:47,740 --> 00:02:50,450 Speaker 1: wife and I and in a little bit of a 42 00:02:50,490 --> 00:02:52,209 Speaker 1: ministry capacity, and. 43 00:02:52,410 --> 00:02:55,550 Speaker 3: Things were just not going a good direction. 44 00:02:55,690 --> 00:03:00,590 Speaker 1: So I basically had to make a decision that we 45 00:03:00,690 --> 00:03:03,510 Speaker 1: were going to have to change how we were doing things. 46 00:03:04,330 --> 00:03:08,579 Speaker 1: And boy, oh boy, that really hurt his heart, really 47 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: hurt his feelings. 48 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 3: He just, I think, felt. 49 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: Really I think he felt betrayed, really, that my wife 50 00:03:15,260 --> 00:03:18,940 Speaker 1: and I made this decision. And, oh, boy, I tried to, 51 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: you know, stay relational, tried to really just help him 52 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: see what we weren't losing a relationship. 53 00:03:25,780 --> 00:03:27,030 Speaker 3: In any way, shape or form. 54 00:03:27,050 --> 00:03:29,410 Speaker 1: But it was just changing some of the ways we 55 00:03:29,470 --> 00:03:34,269 Speaker 1: were we were working together. And, boy, he he got 56 00:03:34,310 --> 00:03:37,550 Speaker 1: really hurt. I think it tapped into some of his 57 00:03:38,070 --> 00:03:42,190 Speaker 1: pain that he'd experienced before as well by others. So 58 00:03:42,210 --> 00:03:45,510 Speaker 1: I have to say it was so hard to navigate 59 00:03:45,550 --> 00:03:48,450 Speaker 1: it because I love this person. You know, he is 60 00:03:48,470 --> 00:03:51,750 Speaker 1: a really, I consider a close friend. Really felt like 61 00:03:51,850 --> 00:03:54,650 Speaker 1: the decision needed to be made. I felt like it 62 00:03:54,690 --> 00:03:57,780 Speaker 1: was the right decision, but it just was a very 63 00:03:57,860 --> 00:03:58,820 Speaker 1: difficult decision. 64 00:03:59,660 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 3: And it was hard. 65 00:04:00,940 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: Because he just couldn't see our perspective and just really 66 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: felt betrayed. So I got a lot of practice at 67 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: feeling misunderstood. As we were navigating that, he kind of 68 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: went into attack mode a bit and just feeling sad 69 00:04:16,820 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: at the loss, sad that he was hurting and sad 70 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,390 Speaker 1: that things were going the direction they were going. It 71 00:04:23,430 --> 00:04:28,230 Speaker 1: was hard, Jennifer, and very painful because I wanted to 72 00:04:28,290 --> 00:04:30,710 Speaker 1: keep the relationship, but he felt really hurt. 73 00:04:31,550 --> 00:04:31,890 Speaker 3: Yeah. 74 00:04:31,930 --> 00:04:32,150 Speaker 2: So. 75 00:04:33,220 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, we train relational skills. So it gave me an 76 00:04:36,100 --> 00:04:39,610 Speaker 1: opportunity to practice a lot of the relational skills that 77 00:04:39,670 --> 00:04:44,710 Speaker 1: we train here at Thrive Today. And time was our friend. 78 00:04:44,810 --> 00:04:48,669 Speaker 1: We ended up finding kind of a third face to 79 00:04:48,710 --> 00:04:52,130 Speaker 1: help us talk, someone that he trusted, someone that I knew, 80 00:04:52,150 --> 00:04:55,100 Speaker 1: but it was someone that he trusted, which really helped 81 00:04:55,180 --> 00:04:57,740 Speaker 1: us be able to hear each other's hearts and to 82 00:04:57,820 --> 00:05:02,100 Speaker 1: be able to really repair on some of what had 83 00:05:02,180 --> 00:05:04,700 Speaker 1: really been a lot of hurt in that situation. 84 00:05:05,140 --> 00:05:06,659 Speaker 2: There's so much you said right there that I would love. 85 00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:09,300 Speaker 2: Like we could go, Chris, we can go talking about 86 00:05:09,339 --> 00:05:10,660 Speaker 2: like Matthew 18 and all this stuff. 87 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:11,460 Speaker 3: You're right there. 88 00:05:11,500 --> 00:05:14,740 Speaker 2: But I know we've got some really important content that 89 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,900 Speaker 2: I'm going to stay focused on. So here's one thing 90 00:05:16,930 --> 00:05:20,810 Speaker 2: I find interesting. When dealing with unresolved conflict, so often 91 00:05:20,830 --> 00:05:23,089 Speaker 2: I think we want to focus just on the facts 92 00:05:23,230 --> 00:05:26,190 Speaker 2: of everything that occurred. If you can only understand facts, 93 00:05:26,900 --> 00:05:30,630 Speaker 2: Things as I see them, but then everything will be great. 94 00:05:30,670 --> 00:05:34,310 Speaker 2: But often there's a deeper issue involved, wouldn't you say, 95 00:05:34,330 --> 00:05:34,990 Speaker 2: that needs. 96 00:05:34,910 --> 00:05:35,790 Speaker 1: To be addressed? 97 00:05:36,290 --> 00:05:37,990 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're exactly right. 98 00:05:38,350 --> 00:05:41,230 Speaker 2: Can you talk to me first, something that I know 99 00:05:41,270 --> 00:05:46,100 Speaker 2: you emphasize a lot in your content, about emotional safety? 100 00:05:47,020 --> 00:05:47,539 Speaker 3: Yeah. 101 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: I mean, at the end of the day, every human 102 00:05:50,380 --> 00:05:53,180 Speaker 1: brain wants to feel seen, heard, and understood. 103 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:53,300 Speaker 2: Right. 104 00:05:54,310 --> 00:05:56,710 Speaker 1: And if I don't feel seen or if I don't 105 00:05:56,730 --> 00:05:58,910 Speaker 1: feel heard or I don't feel understood, it's going to 106 00:05:58,950 --> 00:06:01,859 Speaker 1: be really hard to repair. And it's going to be 107 00:06:01,940 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: really hard to get back to joy in a situation. 108 00:06:05,660 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: So part of emotional safety is also putting words to 109 00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: what we feel and what we feel like we need. 110 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,820 Speaker 1: So in the example I share with my friend, he 111 00:06:16,140 --> 00:06:21,089 Speaker 1: couldn't hear from me. And so I suggested a third face. 112 00:06:21,740 --> 00:06:25,060 Speaker 1: someone that he trusted, which actually brought some safety into 113 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: the dynamic because it was a neutral person, so to speak. 114 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,850 Speaker 1: So when it comes to emotional safety, ultimately, we want 115 00:06:32,870 --> 00:06:34,970 Speaker 1: to put words to what is it that we feel 116 00:06:35,010 --> 00:06:37,950 Speaker 1: like we need to create some of that safety? 117 00:06:38,270 --> 00:06:41,370 Speaker 3: And how do I help others feel seen, heard, and understood? 118 00:06:42,029 --> 00:06:44,750 Speaker 1: And a big part of that is actually learning what 119 00:06:44,790 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: we call VCR in our ministries and my partner ministries. 120 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,909 Speaker 1: We call VCR, which is When there's emotions present, we 121 00:06:51,930 --> 00:06:54,230 Speaker 1: want to validate the V in VCR. It isn't the 122 00:06:54,290 --> 00:06:58,710 Speaker 1: old way to watch movies. VCR is validate, comfort, and 123 00:06:58,790 --> 00:07:01,770 Speaker 1: what we would call repattern, which is just changing the 124 00:07:01,810 --> 00:07:04,050 Speaker 1: way that our brain is talking to itself. 125 00:07:04,670 --> 00:07:06,239 Speaker 3: So we validate. What is it? 126 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,420 Speaker 1: My friend's sharing how he felt hurt by something that 127 00:07:09,460 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: I did. I would validate what he feels and say, 128 00:07:11,620 --> 00:07:13,620 Speaker 1: I can see that this really hurt you. 129 00:07:13,700 --> 00:07:14,230 Speaker 3: I get it. 130 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,620 Speaker 1: You were really hurt by what I did. So validation 131 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,630 Speaker 1: is just being able to Put words to what I 132 00:07:20,690 --> 00:07:22,650 Speaker 1: see and what I hear. Like, yes, this is the 133 00:07:22,690 --> 00:07:26,250 Speaker 1: pain that I cause. And I can hear that and 134 00:07:26,270 --> 00:07:30,020 Speaker 1: take responsibility for that. And the comfort, the C in VCR, 135 00:07:30,060 --> 00:07:32,500 Speaker 1: the comfort step is just, okay, what do you need 136 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: here as you feel these feelings? What would be helpful 137 00:07:35,900 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: right now? So what can I do? Do you need 138 00:07:38,820 --> 00:07:41,830 Speaker 1: anything from me here while you're feeling this hurt or 139 00:07:41,870 --> 00:07:45,330 Speaker 1: this upset? And that's a big part of how we 140 00:07:45,370 --> 00:07:48,870 Speaker 1: help people feel seen, heard, and understood. And sometimes what's 141 00:07:48,890 --> 00:07:51,510 Speaker 1: helpful is, hey, I just needed to be heard. Or 142 00:07:51,550 --> 00:07:53,790 Speaker 1: sometimes it's like, no, I just needed to make sure 143 00:07:53,830 --> 00:07:57,890 Speaker 1: you understood the impact here. And I found these ingredients 144 00:07:57,950 --> 00:08:00,670 Speaker 1: really go a long way when we're trying to hear 145 00:08:00,730 --> 00:08:03,330 Speaker 1: each other's hearts when there's pain involved. 146 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,370 Speaker 2: Yeah, that actually is making me skip ahead to something 147 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,530 Speaker 2: I'm thinking, a resource of yours, and I'll explain why. 148 00:08:08,550 --> 00:08:10,890 Speaker 2: As I'm listening to that and I'm thinking of my 149 00:08:11,010 --> 00:08:15,750 Speaker 2: own journey, and I've gotten a lot better at dialing 150 00:08:15,790 --> 00:08:19,770 Speaker 2: down my own reaction so that I can even want 151 00:08:19,890 --> 00:08:25,150 Speaker 2: to engage and listen and validate. I'm wondering for some 152 00:08:25,190 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 2: of our listeners here, Sometimes I think what can happen 153 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 2: when we're in that place is without even recognizing it, 154 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,300 Speaker 2: our shame gets triggered and then we become defensive. And 155 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 2: so I'm wondering, you have a free resource on... taking 156 00:08:40,260 --> 00:08:43,020 Speaker 2: your relational temperature and to our listeners, we're going to 157 00:08:43,059 --> 00:08:45,410 Speaker 2: put that actually in the show notes. How can that 158 00:08:45,510 --> 00:08:48,530 Speaker 2: help us as we're processing through? So we've got this 159 00:08:48,610 --> 00:08:50,449 Speaker 2: really big, and I'm going to say like for some 160 00:08:50,490 --> 00:08:54,230 Speaker 2: of our listeners who are dealing with maybe a child 161 00:08:54,250 --> 00:08:57,130 Speaker 2: that's cut them off, adult child or a parent that's 162 00:08:57,150 --> 00:09:00,460 Speaker 2: cut them off or their marriage is heading towards divorce. 163 00:09:00,700 --> 00:09:06,260 Speaker 2: And that triggers just inherently the, subconscious shame, right? So 164 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 2: how can they begin to dial that down to even 165 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 2: get to a place to want to create safety for 166 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:12,140 Speaker 2: the other person? 167 00:09:12,980 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an excellent question, Jennifer. And yeah, so what 168 00:09:16,500 --> 00:09:19,790 Speaker 1: you describe really well is when I feel some loss, 169 00:09:19,870 --> 00:09:23,670 Speaker 1: there's a loss of the relationship, there's a rupture. That 170 00:09:23,710 --> 00:09:26,450 Speaker 1: loss is what we call attachment pain. There's pain in 171 00:09:26,530 --> 00:09:31,100 Speaker 1: the relationship. The attachment is broken or severed. Attachment pain, 172 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:33,860 Speaker 1: let's just acknowledge it, is the worst pain for the 173 00:09:33,900 --> 00:09:36,819 Speaker 1: human brain. The human brain knows no greater pain than 174 00:09:36,860 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: attachment pain. So when I'm feeling the loss and I'm grieving, 175 00:09:41,020 --> 00:09:43,650 Speaker 1: I just want to help everyone. 176 00:09:43,410 --> 00:09:46,510 Speaker 3: Understand, that hurts. That really hurts. It's a death. 177 00:09:46,590 --> 00:09:49,810 Speaker 1: It feels like we've lost a part of ourselves. And 178 00:09:49,850 --> 00:09:53,730 Speaker 1: that does bring up shame. And shame is smothering. Shame 179 00:09:53,890 --> 00:09:58,410 Speaker 1: is an awful thing to feel. We don't like being 180 00:09:58,490 --> 00:10:03,100 Speaker 1: smothered by that. So it helps to understand that attachment 181 00:10:03,140 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: pain and shame that gets triggered puts our brain in 182 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: what we call enemy mode state. And enemy mode is 183 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,700 Speaker 1: a state where I'm not my normal, relational, joyful, flexible self. 184 00:10:15,410 --> 00:10:18,010 Speaker 1: Enemy mode is when the people that I care about 185 00:10:18,050 --> 00:10:20,809 Speaker 1: start to feel like an enemy in some way. So 186 00:10:20,870 --> 00:10:23,770 Speaker 1: I might get mad with this conflict with my child 187 00:10:23,830 --> 00:10:26,469 Speaker 1: and I feel like, oh, there's so much pain that's 188 00:10:26,530 --> 00:10:29,410 Speaker 1: being caused here. And in enemy mode, it's kind of 189 00:10:29,450 --> 00:10:34,150 Speaker 1: your brain's reactive state where you're just reacting. And so 190 00:10:34,370 --> 00:10:36,849 Speaker 1: one of the things that I encourage people to do 191 00:10:37,090 --> 00:10:40,330 Speaker 1: is anytime we lose our peace and our joy and 192 00:10:40,350 --> 00:10:43,069 Speaker 1: we're slipping into enemy mode where we just feel like 193 00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: we're not our normal, flexible selves, One of the best 194 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,179 Speaker 1: things we can do is get out of enemy mode. 195 00:10:49,330 --> 00:10:51,250 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of different ways to get out 196 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,110 Speaker 1: of enemy mode. But one of the ways we get 197 00:10:53,150 --> 00:10:56,150 Speaker 1: out of enemy mode is trying to remember the good stuff. 198 00:10:56,929 --> 00:11:00,130 Speaker 1: So if I have a conflict or I have a 199 00:11:00,690 --> 00:11:03,790 Speaker 1: family member that's just asked for some space or not 200 00:11:03,850 --> 00:11:06,230 Speaker 1: talking to me, one of the ways I might get 201 00:11:06,290 --> 00:11:08,569 Speaker 1: out of enemy mode is just to remember some of 202 00:11:08,650 --> 00:11:12,390 Speaker 1: God's gifts in my life. So I might even pray, Lord, 203 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,410 Speaker 1: could you bring to mind some of the gifts that 204 00:11:14,429 --> 00:11:16,870 Speaker 1: you've given me in my life? Like, help me to 205 00:11:16,950 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: remember some joy. Help me to remember something good. And 206 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,100 Speaker 1: I encourage people, when they pray and invite the Lord 207 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: to bring to mind some gifts, try to remember those gifts. 208 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,579 Speaker 1: Sometimes the gifts are moments of watching a sunset, or 209 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,850 Speaker 1: it might be the person, even the person that you're 210 00:11:32,870 --> 00:11:35,550 Speaker 1: in a conflict with, but what you love about this person. 211 00:11:35,630 --> 00:11:38,690 Speaker 1: Even though you're not in a good place with this person, 212 00:11:38,730 --> 00:11:41,870 Speaker 1: the Lord might bring to mind, hey, remember when things 213 00:11:41,910 --> 00:11:45,309 Speaker 1: were good. Remember what you really love about this person 214 00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:47,150 Speaker 1: and look at what God's put. 215 00:11:46,990 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 3: In this person. So the goal is to get out. 216 00:11:50,340 --> 00:11:53,100 Speaker 1: Of enemy mode so that we can see clearly. Because 217 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,140 Speaker 1: when we're in enemy mode, we're just, it's like a 218 00:11:55,179 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: pain avoidance state for your brain. And we don't have 219 00:11:59,980 --> 00:12:03,309 Speaker 1: all of our faculties running in the brain. So when 220 00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:05,370 Speaker 1: we get out of enemy mode, we get back into 221 00:12:05,410 --> 00:12:08,969 Speaker 1: like our normal relational flexible self. That's where I can 222 00:12:09,050 --> 00:12:13,100 Speaker 1: see clearly. And One of the things I ask people 223 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: to do or invite people to do is ask Jesus 224 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:21,380 Speaker 1: how he sees that person. So if I'm in that conflict, 225 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,699 Speaker 1: I might say, Lord, what do you see when you 226 00:12:23,740 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: look at this person? Like, could you remind me of 227 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,959 Speaker 1: what you see? And that's another way where we can 228 00:12:30,220 --> 00:12:35,459 Speaker 1: offer grace and humility and flexibility in the dynamic. with 229 00:12:35,500 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: this person is seeing them from God's perspective. I found 230 00:12:38,940 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: that's helped. 231 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:40,260 Speaker 3: Me a lot. 232 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,060 Speaker 1: It also helps us to be able to navigate things 233 00:12:43,860 --> 00:12:47,230 Speaker 1: with them, which could be difficult to navigate. And it's 234 00:12:47,270 --> 00:12:51,210 Speaker 1: also helpful when we feel that shame that's getting activated. 235 00:12:51,250 --> 00:12:52,990 Speaker 1: We could say, Lord, what do you see when you 236 00:12:53,010 --> 00:12:56,530 Speaker 1: look at me? Right now, I feel like a failure. 237 00:12:56,670 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: I feel like all the lies that come to mind, 238 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,470 Speaker 1: all the distortions that come to mind, It's God, could 239 00:13:02,490 --> 00:13:04,410 Speaker 1: you show me what you see when you look at me? 240 00:13:04,490 --> 00:13:07,050 Speaker 1: And I gotta say, get ready for some Kleenexes to 241 00:13:07,090 --> 00:13:10,530 Speaker 1: wipe the tears because when God shows us what he 242 00:13:10,610 --> 00:13:12,810 Speaker 1: sees when he looks at us, it's a lot different 243 00:13:12,830 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: than what we're feeling when shame is there. It could 244 00:13:15,890 --> 00:13:19,939 Speaker 1: be a rather profound experience. And even inviting other people, 245 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,780 Speaker 1: if that's, it could be a hard exercise. So sometimes 246 00:13:22,820 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: it's also, if you have other people in your life 247 00:13:24,660 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: that you trust, say, hey, what do you see when 248 00:13:27,140 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: you look at me? Or what do you think God 249 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,340 Speaker 1: sees when he looks at me? Because right now I'm feeling, 250 00:13:32,330 --> 00:13:35,370 Speaker 1: these things about myself and they're not good. But being 251 00:13:35,470 --> 00:13:40,430 Speaker 1: able to recognize that in those moments, pain gets activated 252 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,780 Speaker 1: and shame is often there for a good reason because 253 00:13:43,820 --> 00:13:47,099 Speaker 1: it's connected to pain or it's connected to something in 254 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: our life that's just gotten kind of triggered in that moment. 255 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: So seeing what God sees can really help to disarm 256 00:13:53,340 --> 00:13:56,300 Speaker 1: some of that stuff and hopefully even get some of 257 00:13:56,340 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: God's peace where some of this shame is coming from, 258 00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:03,189 Speaker 1: that there's probably a place there that needs some of 259 00:14:03,270 --> 00:14:03,870 Speaker 1: his peace. 260 00:14:03,970 --> 00:14:04,250 Speaker 3: Yeah. 261 00:14:04,330 --> 00:14:06,590 Speaker 2: Well, we're going to take a quick break to listen 262 00:14:06,610 --> 00:14:09,130 Speaker 2: to a word from our sponsors. When we come back, 263 00:14:09,330 --> 00:14:11,770 Speaker 2: one thing I would like you to talk about, having 264 00:14:11,820 --> 00:14:14,980 Speaker 2: taken your courses and having read the book, remembering the 265 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 2: very first time when I began learning about relational circuits, 266 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,620 Speaker 2: it sounds so simple when you're reading it on the chart, 267 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,070 Speaker 2: but then it comes to living it out. So I 268 00:14:26,110 --> 00:14:27,830 Speaker 2: would love if you would talk to us about that 269 00:14:27,870 --> 00:14:28,630 Speaker 2: when we come back. 270 00:14:36,740 --> 00:14:37,740 Speaker 1: And we're back. 271 00:14:37,980 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 2: Before the break, you shared some key elements to really 272 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:48,410 Speaker 2: preparing ourselves for having the best conversations we possibly can. 273 00:14:48,630 --> 00:14:51,790 Speaker 2: And sometimes when people are listening to someone like you 274 00:14:52,010 --> 00:14:56,090 Speaker 2: on a podcast telling these wonderful tips, it can sound 275 00:14:56,190 --> 00:15:02,090 Speaker 2: so simple. But in my experience, It's not something that 276 00:15:02,130 --> 00:15:04,330 Speaker 2: just comes, right? 277 00:15:04,510 --> 00:15:05,770 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. You know what? 278 00:15:05,810 --> 00:15:08,310 Speaker 1: I always tell people we practice on the good days 279 00:15:08,390 --> 00:15:10,130 Speaker 1: so the skills will show up on the. 280 00:15:10,130 --> 00:15:12,230 Speaker 3: Hard days because you're exactly right. 281 00:15:12,490 --> 00:15:15,070 Speaker 1: It sounds really easy in theory when I say, hey, 282 00:15:15,130 --> 00:15:16,230 Speaker 1: get out of enemy mode. 283 00:15:16,270 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 3: Here's what you do. You remember the good stuff. Remember 284 00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 3: some joy. Practice gratitude. 285 00:15:21,020 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: In the moment, it is hard because feelings are big. 286 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 3: Feelings are loud. 287 00:15:24,980 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: And as we've talked a little bit about enemy mode, 288 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,940 Speaker 1: strong emotions put our brain in enemy mode. If I 289 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,620 Speaker 1: can't manage what I feel, my brain's going to default 290 00:15:32,660 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: to enemy mode, which is a problem solver mode, which is, hey, 291 00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:39,140 Speaker 1: how can I shut down some systems to save some 292 00:15:39,220 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: energy because this is messy? And in enemy mode, we're 293 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: going to flail, we're going to splash, and we're going 294 00:15:45,070 --> 00:15:50,580 Speaker 1: to take on some water. The beauty of the relational circuits, 295 00:15:50,900 --> 00:15:55,220 Speaker 1: which is, hey, God created our brain with kind of 296 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: like a circuit breaker switch in many ways. As long 297 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,490 Speaker 1: as I can manage what I feel, the relational systems 298 00:16:01,590 --> 00:16:04,290 Speaker 1: are staying on and they're up and running. But the 299 00:16:04,370 --> 00:16:06,770 Speaker 1: moment that I'm struggling to manage what I feel, or 300 00:16:07,270 --> 00:16:09,870 Speaker 1: maybe I've got fatigue, my blood. 301 00:16:09,670 --> 00:16:12,630 Speaker 3: Sugar crashes, there's always good reasons for it. But ultimately. 302 00:16:13,310 --> 00:16:16,790 Speaker 1: my brain slips into its default enemy mode state when 303 00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: I am having a hard time managing what I feel. 304 00:16:19,580 --> 00:16:22,380 Speaker 1: And so in enemy mode, it's not a place we 305 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: want to visit for very long. I'm not a good 306 00:16:24,980 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: version of myself in enemy mode. God's going to feel 307 00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: distant and far away when I'm in enemy mode. So 308 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,820 Speaker 1: one of the best practices that we can do when 309 00:16:33,860 --> 00:16:37,250 Speaker 1: we're having a hard day, when we're feeling strong emotions 310 00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:40,550 Speaker 1: or that shame has gotten activated, do what we can 311 00:16:40,570 --> 00:16:43,100 Speaker 1: to get out of enemy mode. So I often ask people, 312 00:16:43,180 --> 00:16:45,420 Speaker 1: what helps you get your peace back when you've lost 313 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: your peace? Some of us need to go outside and 314 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,450 Speaker 1: go for a walk. Some of us need to sit 315 00:16:49,470 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: with our cat and look out the window and relax. 316 00:16:52,490 --> 00:16:54,210 Speaker 1: Some of us need to rest. Some of us need 317 00:16:54,250 --> 00:16:58,110 Speaker 1: to move. Whatever it is, find what helps you get 318 00:16:58,150 --> 00:17:01,470 Speaker 1: your peace back. And when you're able to stay your 319 00:17:01,510 --> 00:17:04,290 Speaker 1: relational self, you're going to be creative. 320 00:17:04,330 --> 00:17:05,490 Speaker 3: You're going to be flexible. 321 00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:09,109 Speaker 1: You're going to actually feel compassion when you're in relational 322 00:17:09,150 --> 00:17:13,100 Speaker 1: mode and that relational circuit is working. When that relational 323 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,050 Speaker 1: circuit goes off, all of those things fly out the window. 324 00:17:16,660 --> 00:17:19,210 Speaker 1: So one of the best things that we can do 325 00:17:19,330 --> 00:17:22,550 Speaker 1: is self-care. And enemy mode is problem solving. How do 326 00:17:22,609 --> 00:17:25,290 Speaker 1: I make the pain just stop? Whereas relational mode is, hey, 327 00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:28,450 Speaker 1: how do I stay my relational self while I navigate 328 00:17:28,510 --> 00:17:31,110 Speaker 1: the situation? How do I be the person God created 329 00:17:31,130 --> 00:17:34,190 Speaker 1: me to be? So it's quite a contrast. So there's 330 00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:39,670 Speaker 1: a relational Chris. That's loving, kind, patient, understanding. And there's non-relational, Chris, 331 00:17:39,730 --> 00:17:44,619 Speaker 1: which is just shut down, disconnect, isolate, feeling shame. And 332 00:17:44,660 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: we all have that ability to slip into enemy mode. 333 00:17:47,619 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: So I would say doing whatever you can to put 334 00:17:51,300 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: some charge in your battery and to stay your relational 335 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,300 Speaker 1: self or get back to your relational self is one 336 00:17:57,340 --> 00:18:00,420 Speaker 1: of the best skills you can use. 337 00:18:01,140 --> 00:18:01,260 Speaker 3: Yeah. 338 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,270 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, as I'm listening, so I just know from 339 00:18:04,650 --> 00:18:08,210 Speaker 2: my history and perspective, I have a tendency to feel 340 00:18:08,290 --> 00:18:11,290 Speaker 2: like when there is a relational issue, especially if it's 341 00:18:11,350 --> 00:18:15,070 Speaker 2: with my spouse, with my adult child, somebody who's really, really, 342 00:18:15,090 --> 00:18:18,609 Speaker 2: I really care deeply for. Yeah. There's a part of 343 00:18:18,670 --> 00:18:22,020 Speaker 2: me that feels like I have to solve it right now. 344 00:18:22,180 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 2: And that's when I normally create a mess. But what 345 00:18:24,940 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 2: I'm hearing you say is that there's some preparation work involved. Yeah. 346 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 2: Maybe if you could speak a little to the one 347 00:18:33,780 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 2: who is saying like, I am feeling terrified right now 348 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:38,510 Speaker 2: because I feel like my marriage is imploding. And if 349 00:18:38,570 --> 00:18:40,649 Speaker 2: I don't fix it today, I don't know what's going 350 00:18:40,670 --> 00:18:43,290 Speaker 2: to go on. So this is a faith-based show. 351 00:18:43,310 --> 00:18:44,030 Speaker 1: Yeah. 352 00:18:44,470 --> 00:18:47,610 Speaker 2: So what can they do when they recognize in their brain, okay, 353 00:18:47,710 --> 00:18:49,750 Speaker 2: I recognize I'm trying to fix this, but I don't 354 00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:53,330 Speaker 2: have the courage right now to practice these steps that 355 00:18:53,390 --> 00:18:56,730 Speaker 2: Chris is saying because I don't feel like I have time. 356 00:18:57,609 --> 00:18:58,860 Speaker 3: That's an excellent question. 357 00:18:58,930 --> 00:19:01,660 Speaker 1: And one of the best, the other, we talked about 358 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: getting relational circuits on. 359 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:04,459 Speaker 3: That's a great skill. 360 00:19:04,940 --> 00:19:08,500 Speaker 1: Another skill that the brain really benefits from is the 361 00:19:08,540 --> 00:19:11,959 Speaker 1: skill of quieting. And skill of quieting is when I 362 00:19:11,980 --> 00:19:14,540 Speaker 1: get amped up, I'm getting energy. And of course, I 363 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:16,580 Speaker 1: feel that fear. I've got to fix this. I've got 364 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,260 Speaker 1: to do something. Quieting is our friend. Quieting is the 365 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,580 Speaker 1: on-demand release of serotonin. When I just take a moment, 366 00:19:23,740 --> 00:19:28,170 Speaker 1: there are a few moments to just breathe, You know, 367 00:19:28,250 --> 00:19:32,630 Speaker 1: take those nice deep breaths. It helps your body relax more, 368 00:19:32,690 --> 00:19:34,110 Speaker 1: helps your mind get sharper. 369 00:19:34,130 --> 00:19:37,220 Speaker 3: And when we quiet, one of the things we can do, 370 00:19:37,340 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 3: and some of. 371 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,859 Speaker 1: Us like to talk to God out loud. Some of 372 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 1: us talk to God in our minds. Some of us 373 00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:44,869 Speaker 1: talk to God through journaling. Some of us talk to 374 00:19:44,890 --> 00:19:46,530 Speaker 1: God as we're reading God's word. 375 00:19:47,330 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 3: One of the great questions for God is, Lord, where are. 376 00:19:50,580 --> 00:19:54,390 Speaker 1: You right now as I'm sitting here and I'm feeling this? 377 00:19:54,470 --> 00:19:56,650 Speaker 1: I feel like I should actually wait, but I want 378 00:19:56,670 --> 00:19:59,490 Speaker 1: to go fix this. One of the best questions as 379 00:19:59,530 --> 00:20:02,410 Speaker 1: we're quieting ourselves is, God, where are you and. 380 00:20:02,350 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 3: What are you doing? 381 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 1: And what do you see when you look at this situation? 382 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,260 Speaker 1: So we're back to like, what does God see when 383 00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: he looks at this? And I got to say, when 384 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,350 Speaker 1: I've been in these moments where I just like, oh, 385 00:20:12,380 --> 00:20:13,629 Speaker 1: I really want to fix this because. 386 00:20:13,510 --> 00:20:15,770 Speaker 3: There's tension there and I don't like tension. I want 387 00:20:15,810 --> 00:20:17,830 Speaker 3: to make it go away in my marriage. 388 00:20:18,330 --> 00:20:23,190 Speaker 1: But I take some time to quiet, be still. I'm like, Lord, 389 00:20:23,390 --> 00:20:26,630 Speaker 1: are you aware of this? Like there's a fire here. 390 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,790 Speaker 3: And what do you see when you look at it? 391 00:20:29,150 --> 00:20:31,420 Speaker 1: It's a great way to get my peace back because 392 00:20:31,460 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: I discover that the things that I'm worried about, I've 393 00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: yet to encounter a problem that God's worried about. And 394 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,340 Speaker 1: he's a very peaceful presence. He is the Prince of 395 00:20:40,380 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: Peace and peace is his signature. And peace is what 396 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: our brain and our nervous system and our body really like. 397 00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:49,260 Speaker 1: And sometimes it helps to have a friend or someone 398 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,010 Speaker 1: that we can talk to as well. For me, I'm 399 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,889 Speaker 1: comfortable just being able to do this. For my wife, 400 00:20:55,010 --> 00:20:57,350 Speaker 1: she can do this. Sometimes she likes to just call 401 00:20:57,390 --> 00:20:59,750 Speaker 1: a friend who can also pray with her and help her. 402 00:20:59,830 --> 00:21:02,710 Speaker 1: So it's like, again, it comes down to like what 403 00:21:02,810 --> 00:21:05,570 Speaker 1: works best for you in those moments to get your 404 00:21:05,609 --> 00:21:08,690 Speaker 1: peace back. And even learning to see some of what 405 00:21:08,750 --> 00:21:11,129 Speaker 1: God sees when he looks at these situations is the 406 00:21:11,190 --> 00:21:14,409 Speaker 1: reminder that he is really good at what he does. 407 00:21:14,510 --> 00:21:15,450 Speaker 3: He's better than. 408 00:21:15,410 --> 00:21:19,410 Speaker 1: Me at bringing joy back into my marriage. He knows 409 00:21:19,470 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: what my marriage needs. if I can partner with him 410 00:21:22,580 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: and join him and what he's doing, I'm going to 411 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: be more satisfied with the results of the outcome than 412 00:21:28,380 --> 00:21:30,780 Speaker 1: if I just kind of give in and jump in 413 00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:32,250 Speaker 1: and try to fix it. 414 00:21:40,109 --> 00:21:45,260 Speaker 2: I'm thinking of some of my most important relationships. And 415 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 2: so I've shared on this show before, but working to 416 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 2: undo patterns that I don't want to perpetuate in my 417 00:21:51,820 --> 00:21:57,140 Speaker 2: present relationships. And that has been a way longer process 418 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:02,389 Speaker 2: than I ever anticipated. And so I'm very encouraged, and 419 00:22:02,410 --> 00:22:04,290 Speaker 2: I hope our listeners can hear this, that you said 420 00:22:04,330 --> 00:22:08,090 Speaker 2: God's not freaking out and he's good at what he does. 421 00:22:08,950 --> 00:22:11,169 Speaker 2: I had read somewhere that somebody said, like, if you can't, 422 00:22:11,609 --> 00:22:13,950 Speaker 2: if something still bothers you the next day, you need 423 00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:16,410 Speaker 2: to address it. Well, when we're dealing with, I feel 424 00:22:16,430 --> 00:22:20,659 Speaker 2: like these really complex relational things, I can't address it 425 00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 2: the next day because me getting clarity sometimes with God 426 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 2: has taken a considerable length of time before. 427 00:22:29,619 --> 00:22:29,939 Speaker 3: So I. 428 00:22:31,619 --> 00:22:36,580 Speaker 2: Like that you emphasize we have time, right, to really 429 00:22:36,619 --> 00:22:40,250 Speaker 2: get our perspective clear. clarified and to get God's view 430 00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:41,310 Speaker 2: on the situation. 431 00:22:41,790 --> 00:22:44,310 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. That's right. And you know what? 432 00:22:44,369 --> 00:22:47,090 Speaker 1: I love that you brought up just the next day, 433 00:22:47,170 --> 00:22:49,830 Speaker 1: if you're still feeling it. One of the great questions 434 00:22:49,930 --> 00:22:52,550 Speaker 1: I've learned to ask over the years when I feel 435 00:22:52,570 --> 00:22:55,609 Speaker 1: like I've still got some pain or some things, you know, 436 00:22:55,630 --> 00:22:59,010 Speaker 1: some emotions or feelings are still strong is, Lord, where 437 00:22:59,030 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: have I felt these feelings before? Like, are these just 438 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: because of the present day stuff? Or Lord, are these 439 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,300 Speaker 1: also coming up from another time in my life where 440 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: I felt this way before? 441 00:23:08,300 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 3: Because you know what? 442 00:23:09,260 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: Unprocessed pain doesn't go away. It's always there. Just sometimes 443 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,869 Speaker 1: it's more present than others, or sometimes it's easier to 444 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,830 Speaker 1: spot than other times. Sometimes I'll ask people, hey, how 445 00:23:18,930 --> 00:23:21,170 Speaker 1: old do you feel in these feelings? Do you feel 446 00:23:21,210 --> 00:23:24,689 Speaker 1: your adult self with your adult capacities and maturity? Or 447 00:23:24,730 --> 00:23:28,910 Speaker 1: do you feel younger? Because ultimately, unprocessed pain is going 448 00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:32,540 Speaker 1: to keep playing out until we can stop and pause 449 00:23:32,580 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: and get some of God's peace in some of those 450 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,700 Speaker 1: places where it might not, God's peace might not be 451 00:23:37,740 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: there yet. 452 00:23:38,260 --> 00:23:38,540 Speaker 3: Yeah. 453 00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 2: As you're talking there, I was thinking about, so my 454 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,460 Speaker 2: husband and I almost got divorced when our daughter was 455 00:23:42,500 --> 00:23:46,500 Speaker 2: like four. And I remember the sense of like, I 456 00:23:46,540 --> 00:23:48,780 Speaker 2: was sensing what God was calling me to do, but 457 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 2: I'm like, why me? Why am I the one that 458 00:23:51,420 --> 00:23:54,350 Speaker 2: has to do all this work when my husband's behaviors 459 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:59,129 Speaker 2: are X, Y, and Z. And, and yet the fruit 460 00:23:59,210 --> 00:24:02,409 Speaker 2: on the other side is, And so I'm going to 461 00:24:02,470 --> 00:24:05,169 Speaker 2: assume those listening right now, and we're going to have 462 00:24:05,190 --> 00:24:07,810 Speaker 2: to kind of wind down our conversation. There's so much 463 00:24:07,850 --> 00:24:11,070 Speaker 2: we could talk about, but those who are, they're in 464 00:24:11,109 --> 00:24:14,690 Speaker 2: this really complex conversation. Maybe there's a lot of tension. 465 00:24:14,780 --> 00:24:16,860 Speaker 2: Maybe it's with an adult child that has all this 466 00:24:16,940 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 2: unprocessed pain that's coming out at age 18. Pretty common. Yep. 467 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:28,330 Speaker 2: How can us recognizing the other person's relational circuit process? 468 00:24:28,530 --> 00:24:30,989 Speaker 2: How can we begin to shift so that we, what 469 00:24:31,010 --> 00:24:32,990 Speaker 2: I'm hearing is like, okay, let's take care of ourselves 470 00:24:33,050 --> 00:24:35,050 Speaker 2: so that we have a clear perspective and we're not 471 00:24:35,070 --> 00:24:38,510 Speaker 2: bringing in our unprocessed gunk. And then also the flip 472 00:24:38,550 --> 00:24:42,770 Speaker 2: side of that elevate. So we're more able to see clearly. 473 00:24:43,030 --> 00:24:45,260 Speaker 2: Sometimes I feel like we get so stuck on behavior, 474 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 2: but we see as behavior. So help us shift when 475 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,390 Speaker 2: we're in that moment. so that we're more apt to 476 00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:55,030 Speaker 2: want to do the hard work that's going to get 477 00:24:55,070 --> 00:24:56,129 Speaker 2: us the results we want? 478 00:24:56,510 --> 00:24:58,850 Speaker 3: Yes. Oh, that's such a good question. 479 00:24:59,010 --> 00:25:02,270 Speaker 1: And good for you for navigating what you navigated, because 480 00:25:02,290 --> 00:25:06,290 Speaker 1: that's so hard. And you're exactly right. It can feel 481 00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:09,550 Speaker 1: very difficult to navigate those moments. And at the end 482 00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:12,730 Speaker 1: of the day, the best thing in the world is 483 00:25:12,890 --> 00:25:15,129 Speaker 1: to live from the heart that God's given you and 484 00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:18,570 Speaker 1: to reflect the life that God's put in you. So 485 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,969 Speaker 1: at the end of the day is how do I 486 00:25:21,150 --> 00:25:23,949 Speaker 1: show up? How do I reflect who God made me 487 00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:27,030 Speaker 1: to be? That again, that being in enemy mode is 488 00:25:27,070 --> 00:25:28,810 Speaker 1: not going to be a good reflection of who God 489 00:25:28,850 --> 00:25:32,130 Speaker 1: made me to be. So it's like, okay, Lord, how 490 00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:37,070 Speaker 1: do I navigate this in a way that reflects you 491 00:25:37,210 --> 00:25:40,670 Speaker 1: and reflects who you created me to be? And that 492 00:25:40,730 --> 00:25:44,470 Speaker 1: involves also, again, seeing some of what God sees in 493 00:25:44,510 --> 00:25:47,930 Speaker 1: that situation of, Lord, okay, where are you in this mess? 494 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: how can I partner with you as we navigate this? 495 00:25:51,260 --> 00:25:53,580 Speaker 1: Because it feels unfair because of this. 496 00:25:53,660 --> 00:25:55,790 Speaker 3: And like, you're exactly right. 497 00:25:56,270 --> 00:25:59,750 Speaker 1: And so the peace and the satisfaction is really going 498 00:25:59,790 --> 00:26:01,949 Speaker 1: to come in being who God created us to be 499 00:26:02,030 --> 00:26:05,290 Speaker 1: and expressing that and showing up in the ways that 500 00:26:05,350 --> 00:26:07,990 Speaker 1: we can show up in our marriages with our kids. 501 00:26:08,330 --> 00:26:11,889 Speaker 1: The good thing about living from the heart that God's 502 00:26:11,970 --> 00:26:15,470 Speaker 1: given us is we're going to feel satisfied. No matter 503 00:26:15,609 --> 00:26:18,070 Speaker 1: how it plays out, we're showing up in the way 504 00:26:18,210 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: that would honor God and that reflects who he made 505 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,540 Speaker 1: us to be. And we can't control circumstances, but we 506 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: can show up and see some of what he sees 507 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,460 Speaker 1: and be our best relational selves, or at least getting 508 00:26:30,510 --> 00:26:32,980 Speaker 1: back to our relational selves when we lose it. 509 00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:36,350 Speaker 3: That is a path of joy and peace, to be honest. 510 00:26:36,750 --> 00:26:39,100 Speaker 1: And I think we'll look back on that and be 511 00:26:39,180 --> 00:26:42,239 Speaker 1: glad that we did show up in the ways that 512 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:42,899 Speaker 1: we showed up. 513 00:26:43,460 --> 00:26:43,770 Speaker 3: Yeah. 514 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,050 Speaker 2: Well, and I know for me, like a mantra that's 515 00:26:47,150 --> 00:26:49,010 Speaker 2: been in my brain for a really long time, I 516 00:26:49,030 --> 00:26:52,070 Speaker 2: don't want to do anything that's going to unintentionally increase 517 00:26:52,130 --> 00:26:55,510 Speaker 2: my shame load because that just makes everything harder. Oh, 518 00:26:55,950 --> 00:26:56,590 Speaker 2: it does. 519 00:26:57,130 --> 00:26:57,650 Speaker 3: Yeah. 520 00:26:57,790 --> 00:27:00,530 Speaker 2: And I really like just, again, how you're emphasizing this 521 00:27:00,590 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 2: is a process. This is a learning, a retraining. 522 00:27:04,130 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 3: The brain. 523 00:27:04,950 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 2: And I'm very grateful. Your organization has so, so many, 524 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,980 Speaker 2: those of you who follow me on social media, I've actually, 525 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 2: they know I've shared a lot of your content actually. 526 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 2: So they, there's a, you have a lot of great 527 00:27:16,260 --> 00:27:20,900 Speaker 2: resources on your website and your organization. So I do 528 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 2: want to, before we close, I want to mention two 529 00:27:24,540 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 2: very helpful resources. We've already mentioned them briefly, but the 530 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 2: first is free and it's called taking your relational temperature 531 00:27:31,380 --> 00:27:34,260 Speaker 2: and taking Chris Kersey is offering that for free. I'll 532 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 2: share a link to that resource in the show notes, 533 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 2: along with a link to his ministry Thrive, because they 534 00:27:40,540 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 2: facilitate a lot of workshops that are going to help 535 00:27:43,140 --> 00:27:46,530 Speaker 2: you practice a lot of these things in real time 536 00:27:46,770 --> 00:27:51,169 Speaker 2: in a much less consequential situation, which I think is 537 00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:54,669 Speaker 2: very helpful. And then the second is the one I 538 00:27:54,710 --> 00:27:57,430 Speaker 2: mentioned at the beginning of this episode that was so, 539 00:27:57,490 --> 00:28:01,460 Speaker 2: so helpful for me when I just needed to increase 540 00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:03,580 Speaker 2: my joy so I could chill out a bit and 541 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 2: be more, be more loving and kind. And that was 542 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,810 Speaker 2: the book is titled the joy switch, how your brain 543 00:28:09,869 --> 00:28:14,859 Speaker 2: secret circuit affects your relationships and how you can activate it. 544 00:28:14,869 --> 00:28:16,410 Speaker 2: I'm going to read a bit from the back cover. 545 00:28:17,270 --> 00:28:20,330 Speaker 2: Life is hard when you're not yourself. Why do we 546 00:28:20,369 --> 00:28:23,410 Speaker 2: sometimes connect easily with those we love yet struggle when 547 00:28:23,450 --> 00:28:26,619 Speaker 2: things go wrong in the joy switch, discover the brain 548 00:28:26,650 --> 00:28:31,500 Speaker 2: based switch that helps us remain present, relational and connected, 549 00:28:32,090 --> 00:28:35,389 Speaker 2: or leaves us overwhelmed, and withdrawn. You'll learn how to 550 00:28:35,430 --> 00:28:38,820 Speaker 2: recognize when your joy switch has flipped, strengthen your relational brain, 551 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:43,300 Speaker 2: and restore connection so you can remain yourself even in 552 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,450 Speaker 2: the middle of intense conflict and stress. And so, Chris, 553 00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:52,110 Speaker 2: this has been super, super helpful. I'm so grateful that 554 00:28:52,190 --> 00:28:54,290 Speaker 2: you shared your time with us today. 555 00:28:54,490 --> 00:28:55,350 Speaker 3: Thank you, Jennifer. 556 00:28:55,370 --> 00:28:57,490 Speaker 1: It was delightful to be here with you. 557 00:28:57,570 --> 00:29:00,420 Speaker 3: I hope it's helpful to all our friends who are listening. 558 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 2: Awesome. Well, to our listener, I'm going to encourage you 559 00:29:03,580 --> 00:29:07,459 Speaker 2: to do one thing to get that free resource. Take 560 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:12,770 Speaker 2: your relational temperature, visit his website, choose one resource, one activity, 561 00:29:12,830 --> 00:29:14,870 Speaker 2: maybe that you're going to focus on one thing that 562 00:29:14,910 --> 00:29:18,090 Speaker 2: he said in, in this episode and practice it and 563 00:29:18,110 --> 00:29:19,890 Speaker 2: practice it and practice it and practice it, and then 564 00:29:19,930 --> 00:29:21,850 Speaker 2: come back and listen again. And then you can practice 565 00:29:21,930 --> 00:29:24,430 Speaker 2: the next one. If you haven't already done so, I 566 00:29:24,490 --> 00:29:26,990 Speaker 2: encourage you to subscribe to this podcast. Then you won't 567 00:29:27,030 --> 00:29:30,380 Speaker 2: miss a single episode and share it with your friends. 568 00:29:30,460 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 2: This one in particular would be a really good one 569 00:29:33,060 --> 00:29:35,790 Speaker 2: to share with whoever you're having a little bit of 570 00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:38,210 Speaker 2: a challenge with or maybe talk through with your friends. 571 00:29:38,650 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 2: And until next time. may you live as one who 572 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,180 Speaker 2: truly has been set free.