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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: Are you ready to take your relationship to the next level?

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Speaker 2: Many of you have already taken my free quiz to

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Speaker 2: test your relationship connection and are receiving my free tips

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Speaker 2: on how to reconnect with the one you love. If

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Speaker 2: you haven't yet taken the quiz, be sure to check

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Speaker 2: it out today at danashay dot com Ford slash Partner Quiz.

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Speaker 2: That's danashay dot com Ford slash Partner Quiz. Your next

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Speaker 2: level of Connection is just a quiz away. I am

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Speaker 2: so happy that you all are here today on this

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Speaker 2: particular episode because, y'all, this is a spicy conversation.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: I believe that this whole idea of platonic friends and

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Speaker 2: a marriage or platonic friends and a sears relationship is controversial.

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Speaker 2: There are so many different opinions. Should you have friends

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Speaker 2: of the opposite sex you have friends? Is it wise

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Speaker 2: to have friends of the opposite sex that are just platonic,

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Speaker 2: meaning that there's no romantic feelings or obviously romantic relationship involved.

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Speaker 2: I will say this, I don't believe that there is

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Speaker 2: a one size fits all for every marriage. And as

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Speaker 2: we talk today, my guest Sylvia, who I'm going to

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Speaker 2: tell you about in just a second, my guest, Sylvia

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Speaker 2: and I are not necessarily one hundred percent in agreement

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Speaker 2: on this, and it's because we see this from different lenses.

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Speaker 2: If you have past experiences in this area, maybe you've

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Speaker 2: been wounded, you've been hurt, you've been on the wounder

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Speaker 2: side of wound er is a word, then you know

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Speaker 2: that that is going to color how you approach this conversation.

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Speaker 2: So just keep that in mind as you all listen

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Speaker 2: to Sylvia and I share you, guys, this is like

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Speaker 2: my sister from another mister. I'm telling you, we are

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Speaker 2: so much alike y'all in every way like we talk,

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Speaker 2: and it's just like I know what you're thinking, I

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Speaker 2: know what you're about to say because I'm about to

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Speaker 2: say it. Like we are so alike that it's scary.

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Speaker 2: I am so excited to have Sylvia here.

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Speaker 3: She is a.

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Speaker 2: Marriage coach, she loves premarital coaching. She is a mom,

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Speaker 2: she's a wife. She is an amazing woman, and she

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Speaker 2: has a wealth of knowledge and a wealth of wisdom

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Speaker 2: from her own life experiences and coaching other couples that

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Speaker 2: she is going to bring to our conversation today. I

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Speaker 2: am so excited for this interview. You guys so help me.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the podcast today, my guest and friend, Sylvia Chipman.

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Speaker 2: So this is going to be such a great conversation.

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Speaker 2: None of my interviews are like pre planned or pre stage.

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Speaker 2: I just like to have those like honest, real raw conversations.

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Speaker 2: Before we jump in, why don't you tell a little

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Speaker 2: bit about yourself? Why did you start marriage ministry?

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Speaker 3: Business?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: Why?

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Speaker 3: Why?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 3: How long have you been Mary? Tell us all the things? Wow? Wow?

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Speaker 4: Okay, so yeah, I've been married. We just celebrated twenty

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Speaker 4: six years. We were high school sweethearts. It's been a

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Speaker 4: very blessed twenty six years. But I mean, we have

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Speaker 4: been to the bottom. We have dealt with the worst

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Speaker 4: of the worst. But through the Lord and helpers, godly

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Speaker 4: helpers you've put into our path along the way, we've

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Speaker 4: been able to thrive. Like I mean, And the reason

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Speaker 4: I chose Thrive as my business name is probably similar

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Speaker 4: to yours, is because I don't want.

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Speaker 1: Marriages to just be surviving. Yes, I want to see

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Speaker 1: them thriving.

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Speaker 4: There is nothing that hurts my heart more than when

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Speaker 4: you ask a married person, especially you know, if they've

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Speaker 4: been married all the time.

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Speaker 1: How's your marriage? How are things? And they're like, we're

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Speaker 1: hanging in there, Like why are you hanging in there? No?

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Speaker 4: No, the Lord doesn't want you to hang in there.

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Speaker 4: He wants you to be abundant. He wants to see

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Speaker 4: you thrive. So my heart is for marriage ministry. I

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Speaker 4: think when it's something that you've personally experienced, you know,

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Speaker 4: in all forms, you know, the joys, the pains, it

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Speaker 4: just it becomes your ministry. It's something you're passionate about.

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Speaker 4: So I've been serving in church and marriage ministry for

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Speaker 4: years and you know, went and I got the training

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Speaker 4: and education and all that.

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Speaker 1: But basically the Lord has.

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Speaker 4: Just put on my heart to ministry your marriages, and

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Speaker 4: it's what I love to do.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I love that so much. My point of my aunt.

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Speaker 2: Says when she asks people like how are you doing

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Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, you know, I'm good under the circumstances, She's.

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Speaker 3: Like, what are you doing under there?

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Speaker 2: That's all right? It's like the same thing like if

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Speaker 2: you're married, my gosh, Like, if you're going to be married,

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Speaker 2: you might as well be happy. You might as well

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Speaker 2: figure out how to make it work. You might as

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Speaker 2: well learn something from the process and become closer because

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Speaker 2: of it. So y'all know, we like to keep it

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Speaker 2: real real here, and I did. I wrote a blog

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Speaker 2: I think it was back in twenty eighteen on can

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Speaker 2: you be friends with someone of the opposite gender?

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Speaker 3: Now? Assuming you're heterosexual?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So let's just go into this conversation assuming that

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Speaker 2: you're heterosexual. If you're in a homosexual relationship, things are

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Speaker 2: going to be different for you. Platonic and opposite gender

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Speaker 2: and all that might mean something totally different, But I'm

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Speaker 2: talking about for people who are.

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Speaker 3: Attracted to the other gender.

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Speaker 2: Can you be friends real friends with someone if you're

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Speaker 2: married or even if you're single.

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Speaker 3: Is there such thing as that's just my friend?

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Speaker 2: So let's start off talking about the single folks, okay,

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Speaker 2: and then of course we're going to talk about can

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Speaker 2: you actually be platonic friends with someone if you're married?

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Speaker 3: So, selba, what do you think.

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Speaker 2: Let's say I'm twenty five years old, I've got lots.

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Speaker 3: Of guy friends. I'm kind of you know, dating on

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Speaker 3: and off.

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Speaker 2: But I have some friends, some male friends that I'm

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Speaker 2: probably never really going to be in a relationship with.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they're attractive, but I'm not attracted. What's your take

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Speaker 2: on that? Can you just have platonic guy friends if

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Speaker 2: you're in a relationship and you're not married.

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Speaker 4: I mean, to be honest, I think until there's a

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Speaker 4: ring on it, and until you have committed your life

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Speaker 4: to someone, you can have all the friends you want

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Speaker 4: to have, male, female, whatever. In fact, I mean, I

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Speaker 4: think we've talked about this just off the record one

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Speaker 4: time in one of our conversations about how people tend

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Speaker 4: to like get super serious, super quickly. Our young people

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Speaker 4: are just committing themselves, you know, like against everything else,

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Speaker 4: and we're like.

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Speaker 1: Date, what happened to dating?

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Speaker 4: You know, spend some time with different people and make

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Speaker 4: sure that's who you want to be, you know, with

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Speaker 4: for the rest of your life. So so when you're dating,

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Speaker 4: that's a fully different thing to me. I have all

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Speaker 4: the friends you want to have, you know. But but yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's we'll.

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Speaker 1: Get into later about the marriage and how that's different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think, you know, I spent so long

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Speaker 2: since both of us have been single, Like I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 2: take it back, dangerous with that, right, Remember at the

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Speaker 2: time you were once a single person. But I think,

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Speaker 2: like I remember before I got married, there were guys

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Speaker 2: that I thought were really cute, right, but I was

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Speaker 2: not interested in being in any kind of relationship with them. Sure,

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Speaker 2: and people would try to force that on us, like

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Speaker 2: you know, oh, you guys know you like each other,

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Speaker 2: you know, And we were like, no, we literally are friends.

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Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, when I was in high school,

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Speaker 2: one of my very best friends was a guy. I

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Speaker 2: was not attracted to him. I don't think he was

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Speaker 2: attracted to me. I never got any of those vibes.

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Speaker 2: But everybody was like, you guys must be doing something.

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Speaker 2: You guys must be And I'm like, what's the world, Like,

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Speaker 2: why can't people just have friends? Like why can't you

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Speaker 2: just literally like somebody because they're compassionate or because they're

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Speaker 2: fun or because they're funny, or because they you know,

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Speaker 2: they're a good listener. Like why does it always have

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Speaker 2: to go to the romance side.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't.

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Speaker 4: You absolutely can. And I had male friends early on

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Speaker 4: as well. I mean it was they contributed my life.

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Speaker 4: They're the ones who are going to tell you what

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Speaker 4: is in a guy's mind for real, right, Like they're

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Speaker 4: gonna give you that male perspective. In fact, to be honest,

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Speaker 4: I'll go a step further. I recommend you have friends

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Speaker 4: of the opposite sex, because they're going to tell you

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Speaker 4: the truth about you know, how guys think what that

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Speaker 4: behavior really means, you know, I mean so no, I

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Speaker 4: valued my guy friends.

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Speaker 2: And I think really it teaches you too how to

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Speaker 2: have boundaries. Like you know, when you're in a friendship

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Speaker 2: with another guy. If you're female, right, you're in a

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Speaker 2: friendship with a guy, it's like, you know what, No,

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Speaker 2: we're friends, like our relationship doesn't need to go there.

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Speaker 2: I think when you're because we live in such a

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Speaker 2: sexually saturated culture, everybody is friends with benefits, everybody is

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Speaker 2: in situationships, everybody is just sleeping around, and there's like

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Speaker 2: no boundaries. People don't even know how to operate in

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Speaker 2: just normal friendships anymore. Yeah, and I think that's so sad.

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Speaker 2: Like I think about again, just how much fun I

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Speaker 2: had with my guy friends when I was single, not

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Speaker 2: ever thinking about like oh I gotta watch how I

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Speaker 2: sit or I have to watch like those thoughts never

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Speaker 2: entered into my mind. We were just having fun. We

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Speaker 2: were hanging out, you know, mostly in groups. You know,

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Speaker 2: I didn't necessarily like go off alone with them, but

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Speaker 2: not because I was afraid to it, just we just

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Speaker 2: always hang out in groups. I think that that is

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Speaker 2: something that has been like it's a lost art in

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Speaker 2: our culture. Is people don't know how to be friends

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Speaker 2: anymore with people of the opposite gender. And I would

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Speaker 2: love to help people to bring that bag. So how

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Speaker 2: can let's say there's a couple or not a couple.

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Speaker 2: Let's say there's a male and a female. They're friends, right,

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Speaker 2: and maybe other people have been kind of pressuring them,

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Speaker 2: or maybe they do think each other are attracted. Is like,

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Speaker 2: how can they just maintain a healthy friendship without it

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Speaker 2: getting all situationship et I.

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Speaker 4: Was actually gonna speak to because what I do know

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Speaker 4: from experience, and this is not to like toot my

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Speaker 4: own horn.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sure you have the same problem. Is you

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Speaker 1: just want to be friends.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but they do find you attractive and are just

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Speaker 4: really hoping that someday you'll come around and find them

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Speaker 4: attractive too.

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Speaker 3: That's a that's happened. Definitely happens.

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Speaker 4: But even in that, I mean, you can just be

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Speaker 4: clear about what it is that you want and what

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Speaker 4: you're hoping out of this relationship and as long as

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Speaker 4: you're being honest, you know.

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Speaker 3: I just I guess it.

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Speaker 1: There's a fine line.

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Speaker 4: You don't want to be leading people on, like making

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Speaker 4: them think, yeah, there's there's a chance, you know. But

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Speaker 4: but if you're just clear about your intentions and you

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Speaker 4: guys can be friends, then I think that's very healthy.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I would caution against that because my sister,

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Speaker 4: for instance, very attractive woman, very attractive, and she convinced me.

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Speaker 1: That this guy was just her friend and he was

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Speaker 1: buying her all these.

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Speaker 4: Gifts and like thoughtful chris his presence and all these things.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, Katy, yeah, this man wants to

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Speaker 1: date you. She was like, no, no, we're just friends.

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Speaker 1: I told him. And I was like em and I.

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Speaker 2: Said, when he starts getting money, Kathy, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I said, Kathy, what gifts did he get you? And

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Speaker 4: she's describing these gifts. He got me one glasses and.

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Speaker 1: Like it's like a blanket. I'm not kidding. These are real,

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Speaker 1: these are real.

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Speaker 3: Gifts, okay.

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Speaker 1: And I said, Kathy, that is not a friend. He

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Speaker 1: wants to use those things.

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Speaker 3: But when he comes over, yes.

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Speaker 4: Yes, And it turns out a few months down the road,

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Speaker 4: she says Si.

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Speaker 1: If you were right, you should calls me SIV. That's

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Speaker 1: my nickname.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he wanted, he wanted to date, and I was like,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, I'll do I had the instincts. But

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Speaker 4: but anyhow, so so I think as long as everyone's

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Speaker 4: on the same page and y'all are clear about your intentions,

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Speaker 4: then that's.

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Speaker 1: All you can do. But but no, I did find

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Speaker 1: opposite sex friendships helpful, especially when you're young.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, all right, y'all, we're going to talk about

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Speaker 2: level two. I love that we're leveling enough because this

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Speaker 2: is a wild while we's out here, up in these marriages.

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Speaker 2: Who up in these marriages? So we are going to

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Speaker 2: take a quick break for a word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 2: Don't go anywhere, and make sure you subscribe to the

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Speaker 2: podcast if you're not already subscribed, we'll be right back.

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Speaker 2: It's not to get crazy, it's get crazy, all right, Phylvia,

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Speaker 2: let's go there.

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Speaker 3: All right, we're both married. I think we're both attractive.

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Speaker 1: I think you're attracted.

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Speaker 2: You're gorgeous, right, yes, so okay, we just talked about

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Speaker 2: this right before we start recording. Can you, if you're married,

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Speaker 2: can you have platonic friends of the opposite gender. So

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you a little bit about my story. Okay,

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Speaker 2: and Sean and I have a history of infidelity. You

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Speaker 2: guys know that if you've listened to the podcast and

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Speaker 2: so we have gotten it wrongly. The person that I

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Speaker 2: was unfaithful with was my quote best friend, not the

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Speaker 2: ones from high school that I talked about. It was

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Speaker 2: another guy, right, this guy that we were genuinely we

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Speaker 2: were friends, you know. But what happens is when you're

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Speaker 2: friends with somebody, you begin to share your heart with them,

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Speaker 2: you begin to share your hurts with them, you talk

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Speaker 2: about your person. You're in a relationship with them, right, yes,

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Speaker 2: And so I'm telling this man all of this stuff,

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Speaker 2: no boundaries. Okay, Now, y'all give me some grace here

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Speaker 2: because I was nineteen years old, but like, no boundaries.

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Speaker 2: I was just telling this dude everything.

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Speaker 1: But you're given him the playbook.

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Speaker 3: You didn't know it.

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Speaker 4: I did give any book, right, everything that you like

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Speaker 4: and don't like. Now he's got the answer, he does.

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Speaker 2: And I'm just innocently sharing all this stuff, right, And

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Speaker 2: he's given me good advice, Like he's telling me, like

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Speaker 2: maybe you should do this or try this.

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Speaker 3: Or this is what he's thinking.

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Speaker 2: He's doing all the right things, right, but a friend

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Speaker 2: should do. And I honestly don't even know. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I guess if I'm not naive. Yeah, there was there

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Speaker 2: were definitely feelings there, for sure. He was very attractive

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Speaker 2: and there were feelings there. But I thought, I'm mature,

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Speaker 2: I'm nineteen.

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Speaker 1: Years and let me get killed.

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Speaker 3: He was a great listeners to, yes, right.

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Speaker 2: He was doing all the things that at that time

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Speaker 2: Sean wasn't doing, of course, And so I got caught up.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, right, because we don't realize, like when you're

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Speaker 2: opening yourself up like that, like you're creating an emotion,

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Speaker 2: you're creating emotional intimacy, which.

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Speaker 3: Is supposed to be happening in your marriage.

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Speaker 2: But instead of me giving that to my husband because

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Speaker 2: I was feeling hurt by him or whatever, I'm giving

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Speaker 2: all of that to this dude. And so what's happening

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Speaker 2: is we're creating something here. Yes, we're bonding, We're creating

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Speaker 2: a soul tie, even before the whole sex thing happened.

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Speaker 2: And so when we crossed that unfortunate boundary and when

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Speaker 2: I found myself in an adulterous relationship. I was so

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Speaker 2: shook because everyone wants to know how did it get

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Speaker 2: this far?

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Speaker 3: You know, one of my learned it is one of

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Speaker 3: my girlfriends just says to the other day.

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Speaker 2: She's like, Danga, what's that quote that you always say

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Speaker 2: about the enemy will always take you further than you

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Speaker 2: ever wanted to go, and he'll keep you there longer

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Speaker 2: than you.

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Speaker 3: Wanted to stay true.

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Speaker 2: And so I was there and I was like, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, I cannot I literally could not believe that.

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Speaker 3: This had happened because this was just my friend.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm many years removed, over two decades removed from

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Speaker 2: that situation, and I can look back and I can

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Speaker 2: look at all the things that I did wrong, namely

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Speaker 2: no boundaries. Namely again, like I said, opening up and

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Speaker 2: sharing all of my heart and all of that stuff.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't even that I was bad mouthing my husband.

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Speaker 2: I was just sharing how I was feeling and then

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Speaker 2: hanging out with this man alone.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 2: So I mean now I'm like, okay, dull, like it

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Speaker 2: makes you you know what I mean, Like it's so

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Speaker 2: obvious to me, But I want to talk about this

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Speaker 2: because I think that there are people who are listening

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Speaker 2: or watching who really do have good intentions. They're not

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Speaker 2: in these relationships thinking something crazy is going to go down.

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Speaker 3: They're probably like I was, like, no, I can handle this.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm mature. I was a good Christian right like

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm doing all the right things. And so that

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Speaker 2: that's kind of where I come to this conversation from,

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Speaker 2: is this personal experience of we didn't mean for anything

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Speaker 2: to happen, but because we had no boundaries, and because

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Speaker 2: that is the natural progression of a relationship with someone

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Speaker 2: of the opposite sect that you are emotionally bonding to,

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Speaker 2: the next thing is going to be physical intimacy. So

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Speaker 2: we got to like be smart about that along the way. Absolutely, so,

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Speaker 2: I think there's a couple of things at play. First

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Speaker 2: of all, everything you said is absolutely true. I can

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Speaker 2: I can see how that happens, and it does before

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Speaker 2: you know it. You're in deeper than you wanted to go.

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Speaker 1: And how did I get here? You know, we've been

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Speaker 1: transparent with one another.

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Speaker 3: I've had similar experiences in my marriage.

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Speaker 4: And that's why when I say my Husban and I've

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Speaker 4: been to the bottom, We've been to the bottom. But

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Speaker 4: the Lord was able to do a lot of healings,

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Speaker 4: so I'm very thankful for that. But I think you

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Speaker 4: nailed it. There were no boundaries in place. When you

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Speaker 4: start sharing your heart. That's a problem because you should

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Speaker 4: be sharing your heart with your husband.

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Speaker 3: So that's a problem.

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Speaker 4: I think it's really going to depend on the couple

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Speaker 4: because there may be some people who are extra sensitive

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Speaker 4: to that having had that experience. Maybe there's folks going

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Speaker 4: into their second marriages and they had that experience in

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Speaker 4: their first marriage, so they're going to be extra on guard.

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Speaker 4: And the male friends are going to like raise alarms,

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Speaker 4: and so you have to respect your spouse and where

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Speaker 4: they're coming from. Like if the husband or the wife

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Speaker 4: says babe, it would.

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Speaker 1: Mean a lot to me.

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Speaker 4: I would prefer that you don't have opposite sex friends.

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Speaker 4: Then I would encourage you not to get up in

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Speaker 4: arms like, well, I've known this person for fifteen years

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Speaker 4: and I don't know why you're taking them away from

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Speaker 4: me and they're just a friend. But rather understand that

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Speaker 4: that person is coming from a wounded place perhaps, or

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Speaker 4: maybe they grew up in a home with parents.

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Speaker 1: Whose marriage went awry.

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Speaker 4: So we definitely have to respect where our spouse is

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Speaker 4: coming from, yeah, and guard that and be gentle with

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Speaker 4: their heart and their spirit and what they need. So

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Speaker 4: that's the first thing I think is important is you

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Speaker 4: have this conversation with your spouse, you know, and then

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Speaker 4: respect the outcome, like, please don't argue your way into

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Speaker 4: like wearing them down, you know, but really respect what

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Speaker 4: they're saying.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think like to the spouse that literally

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Speaker 2: does have a problem with it. Like when Sean and

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Speaker 2: I were in pre marital counseling, which y'all know, I

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Speaker 2: will sing the praises of premarital counseling to the day

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Speaker 2: all day.

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Speaker 3: Please do it, please, please do not get married without it.

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Speaker 2: But when we were in pre mariital counseling, our counselor

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Speaker 2: had us do this exercise about our friends and I

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Speaker 2: Sean had lots of female friends when we were dating.

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Speaker 2: I had several male friends and we were dating, and honestly,

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Speaker 2: I really didn't have a problem with that because you know,

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Speaker 2: we're young. I just assumed assume we do, right. So

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Speaker 2: when we got married, all those friends were just gonna

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Speaker 2: go away. Well, Sean didn't get that memo. He was like, well,

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Speaker 2: why would you assume that. So I think, like we

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00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,600
Speaker 2: have to speak up too, write, like we have to like, yes,

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Speaker 2: wait for our spouse to talk to us, and we

398
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Speaker 2: need to have this conversation. But like, if you really

399
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Speaker 2: do have a problem with your spouse, don't be like,

400
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Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I don't want to say anying because

401
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Speaker 2: they're gonna think I'm jealous or they don't think I'm insecure.

402
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Speaker 2: Like maybe you are insecure, but maybe your insecurities are valid,

403
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Speaker 2: or maybe you're discerning something like. This is the thing

404
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Speaker 2: I love about Sean. Sean is so discerning of people

405
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Speaker 2: and so male or females. Sometimes females, they'll be like Dana.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm that girl.

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Speaker 2: Like literally, he'll be like that girl does not have

408
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Speaker 2: your best interest to her. He'll be like that dude

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Speaker 2: is really trying to holler at you.

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Speaker 3: And I'll be like, no, they're not, you know.

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Speaker 2: Cause I'm just I believe the best about everybody, and

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Speaker 2: I'm just like, you know, I trust everybody. It's bad.

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Speaker 2: Like I'll think about conversations. I was at the dealership

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Speaker 2: the other day and when I started replaying in my

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Speaker 2: mind the conversation that the dealer was hapling with me.

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh, he was definitely trying to holler

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Speaker 3: aze yes, like but in the moment, I'm just thinking

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Speaker 3: he's so friendly. No oh lord, oh lord.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, like you were saying, though, it's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: you got to have those conversations and don't like minimize

421
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Speaker 2: your spouse's feelings because let's just say they are immature

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Speaker 2: and insecure. Okay, but that's your spouse, so you have

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Speaker 2: to love them enough to say, you know what, Okay,

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Speaker 2: like we're gonna work through this. But what I'm not

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Speaker 2: gonna do is be like, well, you just need to

426
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Speaker 2: grow up, and I'm just gonna still have my friend

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Speaker 2: and leave you feeling all insecure.

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Speaker 4: Now, if you want to have a thriving marriage, that

429
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Speaker 4: is not the way to do it, right, That is

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Speaker 4: not something to dig into because this relationship between a

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Speaker 4: husband and a wife, that's supposed to be the lifetime,

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Speaker 4: that's supposed to be the relationship under God, that's that's next.

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Speaker 4: So if you want that to be healthy and strong,

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Speaker 4: you gotta you gotta think to yourself, is this is

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Speaker 4: this a fight I want to die on?

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Speaker 1: Is this this is the one that's really worth it?

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Speaker 1: And and I would say no, and I would love

438
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:03,359
Speaker 1: to share a real story.

439
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:08,400
Speaker 4: Yeah that, you know, so back I would say ten

440
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,679
Speaker 4: at least ten to twelve years ago, longer even fifteen

441
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,120
Speaker 4: years ago. Maybe I was best friends with the gal.

442
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,200
Speaker 4: We were a couple friends, We were in church, we

443
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 4: were in our twenties. You know, my husband and me

444
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 4: and this woman and her husband, Sunday school friends, all

445
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 4: this together. Well, she had a heart condition and she

446
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,959
Speaker 4: passed away. She wasn't even twenty five years old. I mean,

447
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,439
Speaker 4: she was young, too young to go, but we had

448
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:34,639
Speaker 4: become really good friends.

449
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:36,120
Speaker 3: So she passed.

450
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 4: Her husband and I were in the er room when

451
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,520
Speaker 4: she passed, you know, I mean it was held her hand.

452
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 4: It was very difficult. My husband was deployed at the time.

453
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 4: He was prior military, so that was what we didn't

454
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 4: realize was that that had become a bonding experience. He

455
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 4: just lost his wife. I just lost very close friend.

456
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,639
Speaker 4: They had a small son, he was like a year

457
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 4: old the time, so I kind of stepped in and

458
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 4: he and I became very close friends through this shared trauma,

459
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 4: you know, and I kind of was being a momish

460
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 4: to his kid, and you know, I had little ones

461
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 4: at the time. So spending a lot of time together.

462
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 4: We saw nothing wrong with it because we saw a friend.

463
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 4: But it made my husband uncomfortable. But he was trying

464
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 4: to be gracious because he's like, I can't be there

465
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,119
Speaker 4: for Sill right now. She's going through a lot, you know,

466
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,200
Speaker 4: I want her to not be alone. So it was okay,

467
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,159
Speaker 4: But then he comes home and me and this person

468
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 4: have this clear bonded friendship. He's coming over to play

469
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 4: cards with me, We're going taking the kids to the beach.

470
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,679
Speaker 1: Like I mean, for all intents and purposes, I'm.

471
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 3: Like, it's like a little extended family. It is like

472
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 3: a blended family almost right, right, But.

473
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,959
Speaker 4: Again from the inside. I couldn't see that from the outside. Now,

474
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 4: mind you, we're both we're all faithful churchgoers, and a

475
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 4: couple of the people in the church kind of mentioned

476
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 4: it to me, like it might be a do you

477
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 4: think you guys spending too much time together? And of

478
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 4: course I got in my feelings and got a little offended.

479
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 4: I was like, no, I don't you know, I'm not

480
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,680
Speaker 4: any bit attracted to this person. This person we lost

481
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 4: someone special. We're just friends. People can think what they want.

482
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 4: Somebody quoted the avoiding appearances of evil scripture. To me,

483
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 4: I was like, well, I'm not doing anything, so my

484
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 4: two business.

485
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,679
Speaker 1: You know, you get in your feelings, right.

486
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 4: But it turns out, you know, my husband, this person

487
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 4: I was sharing intimate things when my husband and I

488
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,280
Speaker 4: weren't arguing, you know, things like that I started, you know, he.

489
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: Was almost a girl best friend.

490
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, and where it crossed the line I think was

491
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 4: he was telling my husband how to make me happy.

492
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, like your husband probably didn't appreciate me.

493
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 1: He did not, so did not.

494
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 4: You know, They're in the garage and here is this

495
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 4: guy telling him, you know, still would like it if

496
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 4: you did this, And he was like, don't talk to

497
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 4: me about my wife, which in hindsight that was so valid.

498
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 4: That was an overstep, and he asked me, you know,

499
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 4: to cut to scale back this friendship because he doesn't

500
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 4: like it, and I got hurt and I'm not doing anything,

501
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 4: you know. But anyways, it ended up that even though

502
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 4: I wasn't attracted to this person physically, I could feel

503
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 4: that there was an attraction to the friendship, the compassion

504
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 4: that he offered, similar to what you were describing, you know,

505
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 4: you just start falling into these conversations. Yes, and it

506
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 4: wasn't healthy, and so I knew it wasn't healthy. He

507
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 4: finally got a girlfriend years later, and then there was

508
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 4: this like, huh, my friend is gone now, you know,

509
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 4: because now he's wrapped up in his relationship.

510
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 3: But that was for the best.

511
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 1: It was one hundred percent of what we needed. But

512
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 1: I really should have I was young at the time.

513
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 4: Again, I was in my twenties, so I didn't respect

514
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 4: where my husband was coming from. But he had the

515
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 4: ability to see from the outside. Yeah, and and and

516
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 4: it was hurtful. It was it was thoughtless of me

517
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 4: not to consider his feelings.

518
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 3: I love what you just said about you said.

519
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 2: I wasn't attracted to him physically, but I was attracted

520
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 2: to the emotional, the friendship. And this is where like,

521
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 2: can I just be blind, Like this is gonna seem

522
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 2: a little mean, y'all, just give me some grace. You

523
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 2: aren't seen somebody like with like someone who's just not

524
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 2: attractive at all, and you're like, what happened there? Like

525
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 2: that like what was going on here?

526
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 1: But very nice?

527
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.

528
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 2: They are attracted to the friendship. But it's like that's

529
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 2: the real Like you don't have to be physically attracted.

530
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 2: It's your heart that's probably even a more solid bond, honestly,

531
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 2: because looks are going to change people. You know, your

532
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: looks are going to change eventually. But like when you

533
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 2: bond heart to heart with somebody, that's a powerful bond.

534
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 2: And so there are times that maybe you're thinking, well,

535
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 2: I'm not in any a danger because I don't think

536
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 2: this person's attractive. I don't I'm not attracted to them.

537
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 2: And we always mean physically when we say that, but

538
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 2: like your heart can be connected to somebody, like in

539
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 2: your story, thank you for sharing that because you were Again,

540
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 2: it's the intention. You had good intentions. You weren't setting

541
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 2: out to do anything wrong. And so for so many

542
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 2: people who are like, we don't have any intentions of

543
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 2: doing that, think about every bad thing that you've ever

544
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 2: ever done in your life.

545
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 3: Oh boy, how many times did you intend to do

546
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 3: something bad? We never have bad intentions.

547
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 2: We're just trying to get to work on time, and

548
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 2: so we're speeding right. I mean, we're not evil people.

549
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 2: We just we have good intentions. We want to be

550
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 2: responsible and get to work on time. But then we

551
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 2: break the law, you know, so it's not a matter

552
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 2: of am I attracting to this person? Do I have

553
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 2: wrong intentions? It's just a matter of wisdom. And I

554
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 2: love the fact that these people from the church called

555
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: it out. And this is the thing like in our generation,

556
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 2: nobody wants to be called out for anything.

557
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 4: It's hard to be them now now looking back, they

558
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 4: probably did not want to happen.

559
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 3: I'm sure you're.

560
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 2: Comfortable for them, right, I'm sure. Bible, if you're in

561
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 2: your faith, the Bible says, faithful are the wounds of

562
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 2: a friend. When you think about that, like, faithful are

563
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: the wounds of a friend? You if you're really friends

564
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 2: with somebody, you should be able to say to them, listen,

565
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 2: it's not about cutting them down. It's not even about

566
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 2: calling them out. I say calling them up. You're saying

567
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 2: that is a good way to put it, you know

568
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 2: what I mean.

569
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 3: It's like you know, you're saying, hmm, I'm seeing something.

570
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 2: I have a different perspective because when we're in situations,

571
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 2: we have blind spots, and so there's things that we

572
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 2: don't see. There are things that we can't see, the

573
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: things that we might not want to see. But then

574
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 2: when you have friends around you that are like, Okay,

575
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 2: I'm not all emotionally wrapped up in that thing, so

576
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 2: I can see this from a different perspective. Expective maturity says,

577
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,719
Speaker 2: I'm going to lean into my friends a little bit,

578
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 2: and you know what, You're probably right, I need to

579
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 2: even though I don't have bad intentions, even though maybe

580
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 2: I'm trustworthy or they're trustworthy. I'm going to dial this

581
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 2: back because I don't want this to turn into something

582
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 2: that it shouldn't be. Right.

583
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 3: All right, well, we are.

584
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: Going to stop right there for this part one of

585
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 2: this incredible conversation with my friend Sylvia. I hope that

586
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: you all have been able to identify a little bit

587
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 2: with some of our stories. Maybe you found yourself like

588
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 2: me when I was younger, when I was nineteen in

589
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 2: that situation. Maybe you see yourself in a situation similar

590
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 2: to Sylvia, where she deeply emotionally bonded with someone out

591
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: of share trauma.

592
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 3: That happens all day.

593
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: It happens more often than you would know. So I'm

594
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 2: glad that we're talking about these things because these are

595
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 2: those silent conversations that people are not often having in

596
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,479
Speaker 2: marriage that can silently erode the trust in your marriage

597
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: because you and your spouse aren't talking about them. Maybe

598
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: you're not bringing them up with your friends. You're just

599
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: kind of assuming that every one of your friends feels

600
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 2: the same way that you feel. And so that's why

601
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 2: I'm glad that you're here on the podcast today, because

602
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 2: we actually have real conversations about marriage.

603
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna pause right here.

604
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 2: I want you to come back next week for part

605
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: two of this conversation about can you truly be friends?

606
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: Can you truly have platonic friendships with people of.

607
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 3: The opposite sex.

608
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 2: In the meantime, while you're waiting for next week, be

609
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 2: sure to get my new book if you haven't already.

610
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 2: It's called Tried and True Marriage Advice from twelve Imperfect

611
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: Biblical Couples. There are several chapters in that book that

612
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: speak directly to situationships.

613
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 3: If you will.

614
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 2: I don't know that they call them situationships in the Bible,

615
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 2: but there were situations in the Bible where people found

616
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 2: themselves in messy situations, whether it's in fidelity, whether it's

617
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 2: trust issues, whether it's lack of faith, whether it's.

618
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 3: Betrayal in another way.

619
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 2: So be sure to get that you can find that

620
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 2: at Tried and truemarriagebook dot com and I will see

621
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 2: you on the next episode.

622
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 3: Take care,