1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Life Audio on today's episode of Timeless Wisdom. 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 2: I don't know if there is anybody who has a 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 2: financial anything named after him that is as famous or 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 2: infamous as Ponzi. I don't think he fascinates people. They 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 2: don't even think of him, when in fact, I didn't 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 2: know it was named after a guy. So I assume 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 2: that I'm in the majority in that way. We all 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 2: heard of the scheme, but we don't know the guy. 9 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: That's coming up on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Welcome 10 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Here thousands of hours 11 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: of Dennis's lectures courses in classic radio programs had to 12 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles go to Dennisprager dot com. 13 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 2: All right, everybody, you're listening to the Dennis Prager Show. 14 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: I thank you for doing so. And while there is 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: a lot in the news that I want to talk 16 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 2: to you about, I want to talk first to Mitchell Zukov, 17 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: who is a professor at Boston University, professor of journalism, 18 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 2: who has written a book about something that has always 19 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: fascinated me, and I suspect I'm not alone. I suspect 20 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 2: that ninety eight point four to two three percent of 21 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 2: you listening has heard of the idea of, or the 22 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 2: nonsense of, or whatever you wish to go, or the 23 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 2: evil of a Ponzi scheme where people pay in money, 24 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 2: some get more money, but eventually a lot of people 25 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: lose all their money. Well, it's actually named after somebody. 26 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: There was a guy Ponzi, and Charles Ponzi is the 27 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 2: guy who developed this. And Mitchell Zukov of Boston University 28 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 2: has written the true story of a financial legend, Ponzi. 29 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: This is Dennis Praeger and welcome to the program. Hi, 30 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 2: thank you. It is as soon as I saw this 31 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 2: book was written, I knew that I had to have 32 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: you on it. I don't know if there is anybody 33 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: who has a financial anything named after him that is 34 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 2: as famous or infamous as Ponzi. 35 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 3: Even Capone didn't get you know, a submachine gun named 36 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 3: after him? 37 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 2: Right? Yes? I mean when you think I can't, I 38 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 2: cannot think of a parallel. This. Uh, this, this Ponzi 39 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: fascinates I guess I don't think he fascinates people. They 40 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 2: don't even think of him. When, in fact I didn't 41 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 2: know it was named after a guy, So I assume 42 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 2: that I'm I'm in the majority in that way. We 43 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 2: all heard of the scheme, but we don't know the guy. 44 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 3: Why it's funny. I think you were right when you 45 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 3: said ninety eight point four heard of Ponzi schemes. I 46 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 3: think the other half of that equation is that one 47 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 3: point five seven seven actually knew about Charles. 48 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 2: Ponzeh right ect and you're one of them. Why did 49 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: you write this book. 50 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 3: For that very reason? You know, I was a journalist 51 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,119 Speaker 3: for a long time with the Boston Boston Globe, and 52 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 3: to tell stories that people didn't know it has always 53 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 3: been a passion of mine, and the fact that that 54 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 3: there was this Charles Ponzi. I was a banking reporter 55 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 3: in Boston when banks were failing left and right, and 56 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 3: someone said to me, out of the blue, you know, 57 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 3: banks haven't failed like this since the days of Ponzi. 58 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 3: And when I Ponzi liked in the scheme, and I said, yeah, 59 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 3: he was a Boston guy. Oh, and it set me 60 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 3: down the path. 61 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: You know what you just said, you like stories? What 62 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 2: did you say of the unknown? Or what was the 63 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 2: word you use? 64 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 3: Been told? 65 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: That's it? Do you know? I have found doing this program. 66 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: Those are my favorite interviews, the stories that have not 67 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: been told. 68 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: I had. 69 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: I had an author on about the the one gold 70 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: coin that's a double. 71 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 3: Eagles, the Eagle book. 72 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I tell you. I sat. I sat at 73 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: the microphone, riveted for an hour. I could not believe. 74 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 2: And how much you learn about about history, not just 75 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 2: about that unknown item. Yes, and so I believe. And 76 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 2: I don't let you believe me. I'm gonna let you talk, 77 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 2: but I just have to tell you and my listeners. 78 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: I think the best way to learn history is through 79 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: the micro not you know, a history of America in 80 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: the nineteen twenties may be wonderful, but if you take 81 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 2: one person in the nineteen twenties, you may learn more. 82 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 3: I couldn't agree more. And in fact, that is such 83 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 3: an important way to look at this book. And I 84 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 3: think in a lot of books like this, narrative histories 85 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 3: where you know Ponzi couldn't have existed at any other time. 86 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 3: You have you know, the World War One is over, 87 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 3: prohibition is in effect, the stock market's revving up. You've 88 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 3: got immigration, you know, people pouring into our shores. You've 89 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 3: got you know, the US population for the first time ever, 90 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 3: has become more city fed, more urban than rural. Women 91 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 3: have just gotten the right to vote. There's a tremendous 92 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 3: amount of change going on, tremendous uncertainty, and that is 93 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 3: all the backdrop that you can write a book about 94 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 3: each one one of those items I just mentioned. But 95 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 3: if you see it through the prism of Ponzi's scheme 96 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 3: and how this guy could possibly operate like this and 97 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 3: rake in millions upon millions of dollars in such a 98 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 3: short time, it all comes together. 99 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 2: What year was it, nineteen twenty and the war. Let's 100 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 2: put everything in context. The war is over in nineteen yep. 101 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 2: Just now. 102 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 3: People are expecting the post war prosperity. 103 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: So there is an optimism in the air. Precisely, all right, 104 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: that's the mood of the country is optimistic, even though 105 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 2: we've lost so many men. Yes, we've just fought a war. 106 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 2: And economically, how is the country doing? In nineteen twenty. 107 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 3: People are still waiting for the post war bounce, the 108 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 3: big pickup after the war that people had been expecting, 109 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 3: and people had been promised. It wasn't quite coming yet. 110 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 3: The stock market is just starting to rev up. It'll 111 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 3: really be later in the twenties when the real craziness 112 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 3: starts in the market. But you know, the optimism, though, 113 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 3: is mixed with a lot of uncertainty. We've got the 114 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 3: Red Scare going on. We've got a tremendous fear that 115 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 3: with all these new immigrants are going to bring in 116 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 3: new ideas, whether it's communism or whether it's socialism, fascism. 117 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 3: And so while there's optimism and there's a lot of 118 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 3: hopefulness and a lot of expectation, is also uncertainty. And 119 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 3: that is the perfect climate into which you can inject 120 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 3: the scheme like this. 121 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 2: Now, who is Charles Ponzi before the scheme? 122 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 3: Charles Ponzi was an Italian immigrant. He was born to 123 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 3: an aristocratic family in a town called Lugo, Italy, in 124 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 3: eighteen eighty two. He squandered his small inheritance when he 125 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 3: was partying when he should have been studying at the 126 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 3: University of Rome, and his family said, go to America, 127 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 3: make your fortune there. A bright young man like you, handsome, charming, dapper, 128 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 3: a good dresser. He washes up on the shores of 129 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 3: Boston in nineteen oh three. How old, he's twenty one 130 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 3: years old. He spends the next fifteen years searching for riches, 131 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 3: bouncing up and down the East coast out to the 132 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 3: Midwest a little bit, having amazing heroic adventures, including saving 133 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 3: a woman's life by donating his own skin when she's 134 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 3: burned in a horrible accident. 135 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 2: A stranger or someone he knew, a stranger really. 136 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 3: Who was working in a mining camp as a nurse, 137 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 3: where he was also working, and he was friendly with 138 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 3: the doctor there. And the doctor was in Ponzi's tent 139 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 3: one night talking about how terrible it was that Rose 140 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 3: was likely to die, and in fact, excuse me, Pearl 141 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 3: was likely to die of pearl gossip. And Ponzi said, well, 142 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 3: what's the problem. Well, I have no one who's willing 143 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 3: to donate skin to save her. She was horribly burned 144 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 3: in this kerosene explosion. And Ponzi said, take all you need. 145 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 3: And the rest of his life he spent with enormous 146 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 3: swathes scars, symmetrical scars on his back and on the 147 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 3: back of his legs where the doctor had taken off 148 00:07:59,040 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 3: chunks of skin. 149 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 2: That's a remarkable act, you know. One of the reasons 150 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 2: this fascinates me is I talk a great deal on 151 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: my program about good and evil and how people have 152 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 2: moral bank accounts and in assessing Ponzi, and I don't 153 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: know the damage he did yet, so you know, we're 154 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 2: not ready to make a judgment, and I may not 155 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 2: even make one, but it's not all I do in life. 156 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 2: But it is very important to put the man, not 157 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 2: the scheme, but the man into context. That is, that 158 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 2: is a very rare act of a human and in 159 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 2: those days, it's had to have been painful. I mean, 160 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: I'm sure it's painful today, but it must have been 161 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 2: particularly painful then. Absolutely, he scarred his body, He. 162 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 3: Suffered from pleurisy after it nearly killed him. He was 163 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 3: laid up in bed for weeks and weeks after that. 164 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 2: Did it save the woman? 165 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 3: It saved her life? 166 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 2: How did she feel toward him? 167 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 3: You know, enormously grateful. You know, she knew that she 168 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 3: would not be alive were it not for him, And 169 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 3: the townspeople were you know, gathered around and nominated him 170 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 3: for a heroism award. Well, and so you know, when 171 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 3: you hear the name Ponzia, you hear a Ponzi scheme. 172 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 3: It's immediately you have when you talk about good and evil, 173 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 3: people have a one dimensional sense of oh, this is 174 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 3: a schemer, this is a bad guy. Sometimes, as you said, 175 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 3: it's much more complex, and that makes it more interesting 176 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 3: to me that he wasn't pure evil. He was a dreamer. Yes, 177 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 3: he was a schemer, but he had this complexity and 178 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 3: this moral complexity that really showed up in the incident 179 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 3: with Procossis. 180 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 2: All right, so well, that is that is a very 181 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 2: powerful story. Now what is he doing for a living 182 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 2: prior to the scheme you name it. 183 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 3: He's working as a road drummer, which is, you know, 184 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 3: working on road crews. He's working as a waiter, he's 185 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 3: working in a mining camp as a male nurse. He's 186 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 3: just sort of keeping body insulting him. 187 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 2: Well that it sounds to me like he's not doing 188 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 2: much better here than had he stayed with his aristocratic 189 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 2: family back in Italy exactly. 190 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 3: In fact, he probably could have gotten himself a clerkship 191 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 3: somewhere in an office in Italy, even just with three 192 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 3: years of college education. But once he came here, he 193 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 3: was so determined to live up to his mother's expectations. 194 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 3: She had sent him here. His father had died when 195 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 3: he was young, and she had such tremendous confidence in him. 196 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 3: She spent his youth, in his words, building castles in 197 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 3: the air about what the glorious future I would have. 198 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 3: But once he went to America, he felt as though 199 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 3: he could not go back to Italy. 200 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 2: Uh huh in shame. You know, you never want to 201 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 2: disappoint your mom. That's right, just the way it is all. 202 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 2: I will be back. I am very interested if anybody 203 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 2: listening has suffered from a Ponzi scheme or has been 204 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 2: involved in any One eighth Prager seven seven six, Mitchell Zukoff. 205 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 2: The book is Ponzi's Scheme, The true story of a 206 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 2: financial legend. You're listening to the Dennis Prager Show. One 207 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 2: eighth Prager seven seven six. 208 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this. 209 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom. 210 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 2: This is the way to learn history, My friends. You're 211 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 2: listening to the Dennis Prager Show. My guest is Mitchell Zukoff. 212 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 2: And though he is a professor of journalism, I do 213 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: not want you to hold it against him. You don't 214 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 2: know how true that is, Professor Zukov. I do, okay, fine, 215 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 2: you do. Welcome to the program, and those of you 216 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 2: in Boston area can hear. You can tell your relatives, 217 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 2: friends and enemies. You're on WTTT right now. I will 218 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 2: Mitchell Zukoff has written Ponzi's Scheme and it is the 219 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 2: true story of a financial legend. We were deluged with 220 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 2: calls you might be interested to know, all saying the 221 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 2: same thing. When I asked, have you ever been involved 222 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 2: in or a victim of a Ponzi scheme? Immediately all 223 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 2: lights lit up and said social Security? Ah, yes, what 224 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 2: do you think of that? 225 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 3: Well, you know, it does have certain things in common. Absolutely, 226 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 3: you have early You know the nature of a Ponzi 227 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 3: scheme is that early investors are paid off with the 228 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 3: money of later investors. There's nothing underpinning it. And so 229 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:30,199 Speaker 3: certainly social Security current people who are paying in are 230 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 3: just paying in to the retirees now collecting. So in 231 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 3: that sense, yes, it has the same model. One thing 232 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 3: I would say it makes it clearly different is that 233 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 3: there's no trick to it. Nobody is claiming that it's 234 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 3: anything but that. And so you know the difference in 235 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 3: a reawtion. 236 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 2: Well that's a good, No, that's very good. It's a 237 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 2: eyes opened scheme exactly. 238 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 3: That's right. You know, nobody's pretending that we're really investing 239 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 3: that money or keeping it in a lock by or 240 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 3: whatever you want to call it. It's straightforward. Early investors 241 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 3: are being paid with money from later investors. So yes, 242 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 3: the model fits. The trick again in a real Ponzi 243 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 3: scheme is that people are misled that it's something else 244 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 3: going on, that we're really investing in some. 245 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 2: Great all right, so let's let's go back and we'll 246 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 2: take calls here one to eight Prager seven seven six. 247 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 2: Uh here, Well, well, for let's take a couple right now, 248 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 2: in fact, in Forest Park, Illinois, w I N D. James, Hello, James, 249 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 2: Dennis Prager and Mitchell Zukov. 250 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 4: Oh, I came up with the same comment. It's social security, 251 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 4: it's Ponzi scheme. It's it's only going to work as 252 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 4: long as we've got enough people paying in to cover 253 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:42,439 Speaker 4: the retirees. 254 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 2: Right, So, how do you uh uh do you accept 255 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 2: Professor Zukov's statement that, at least our it's not being 256 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 2: portrayed as anything else. 257 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 4: Well, you know, at various times politicians have said, oh, 258 00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 4: we're putting it in the social security lock box. But yeah, 259 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 4: I guess pretty much everybody does know what it is. 260 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 2: Right. There's no lock box for a Ponzi scheme, is 261 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 2: their professor? 262 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 3: There is not. 263 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 2: No, that's the whole play. Tyler, Tyler, Texas at cliff 264 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 2: On Case Guy, Hello, Cliff, Dennis Prager, Mitchell Zukov. Hi, 265 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 2: I guess you. 266 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 5: Want some background on the scheme that I was taken into. 267 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 2: Here if you could do it quickly. Sure. 268 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 5: Yes. It was a company here called Mobile Billboards, and 269 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 5: they was structured so that the investor purchased a billboard 270 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 5: frame from them and simultaneously would enter into a lease 271 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 5: back agreement with Outdoor Media Company, which is part of 272 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 5: the lawsuit, and they would receive a lease payment equivalent 273 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 5: to about thirteen percent annually. So what was going on. 274 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 5: Then they would sell these and they sold about sixty 275 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 5: and a half million dollars of these systems before they 276 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 5: were shut down by the Security Exchange Commission. 277 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 2: So because all the money they would rake in was 278 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 2: from the next buyer, right, Yeah, Well, so that that's 279 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 2: a good example. I guess. 280 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've heard of the billboards scheme you have. 281 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 2: Oh, that's very interesting. 282 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 3: They take every variety you name, the product and somebody's 283 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 3: tried to turn it into a Ponzi scheme. 284 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 6: I believe. 285 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 3: All right, what was we have seen? 286 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 2: All right, Well, we'll talk about some of the better 287 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 2: known schemes later. Let's first go back to Ponzi right now, Ponzi. 288 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 2: If I'd met Ponzi in nineteen, when did the scheme 289 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 2: happen again in twenty? 290 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 3: What he got the idea in nineteen nineteen. In nineteen 291 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 3: twenty is when it really took off. 292 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 2: All right, So had I met him though in nineteen fifteen, 293 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 2: I'd have thought this is an altruistic, indeed heroic man who, 294 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: like so many others, wants to make his way as 295 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 2: an immigrant in America. 296 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 3: You would, with a couple of small exceptions. One thing 297 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 3: I didn't tell you is that although he was having 298 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 3: this heroic adventure, he also had some misadventures during those 299 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 3: same years when he was bouncing around. YEA one was 300 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 3: up in Montreal. He was working in a bank, and 301 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 3: believe it or not, the banker who ran the place 302 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 3: was engaged in some version of the Ponzi scheme of 303 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 3: robbing Peter to pay Paul. Now Ponzy wasn't involved, but 304 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 3: when it all collapsed. Ponzy needed to get out of 305 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 3: their fast because he thought he'd be swept up in it. 306 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 3: He forged a check and he ended up serving some 307 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 3: prison time in Canada, in Canada, in Montreal. So and 308 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 3: then on his way out, he tried to make some money. 309 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 3: When he was allowed to cross over the border back 310 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 3: into the United States. He brought some Italian immigrants with 311 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 3: him who were undocumented, and he got nabbed by immigration 312 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 3: for illegal immigration, and he spent some more time in prison, 313 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 3: this time down in Atlanta. So he's a real mixed bag. 314 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 3: Nothing he did in those two incidents. 315 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 2: No, exactly, well, they were not merely as evil as 316 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: the skin he gave precisely was good. So so far 317 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: he has a moral bank account with Praeger anyway. 318 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 3: Okay, good, I agree. I think I think that's a 319 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 3: good accounting, all. 320 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 2: Right, fair enough. So we're up now to nineteen nineteen. 321 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 2: The war is ending or over, and he is not 322 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 2: really moving in the direction that would bring his mother 323 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 2: back in Italy pride exactly, Okay, go. 324 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 3: On, there's truly a eureka moment. He had been writing 325 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 3: to people over in Europe looking for ideas business schemes, 326 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,479 Speaker 3: business plans, not to schemes, but legitimate businesses. And in 327 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:31,479 Speaker 3: one of the letters that was sent back to him, 328 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 3: a little piece of paper fluttered out of the envelope 329 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 3: and it was something called an international reply coupon. It 330 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 3: was a really unusual, really mundane form of international currency. 331 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 2: But I remember I used to send it to radio stations. 332 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 3: Okay, exactly. It basically was a way to send a 333 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 3: self addressed stamp envelope overseas so that one post office 334 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 3: would recognize this currency. You could buy a stamp with 335 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 3: it in any country in the world. Right, Ponfi recognized 336 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 3: that after World War One, currencies around the world were depreciated, 337 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 3: had been devalued by the war. So the same irc, 338 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 3: the same postal coupon you'd buy in one country at 339 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 3: one value conceivably was worth a different amount and more 340 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 3: in another country. This is arbitrage, This was currency exchange. 341 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 3: This was believed it or not, both legal and theoretically 342 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 3: possible that if you could buy an enormous amount of 343 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 3: these things, these posted stamps, if you will in one 344 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 3: country and sell them in another country where they were 345 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 3: worth more, you could become rich. 346 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 2: Why would they be worth more in another country because. 347 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 3: They had not their values had not been adjusted to 348 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 3: reflect the depreciated currencies of European economies. So you could 349 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 3: buy let's say, five for a dollar in Boston, and 350 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 3: in Barcelona you could buy twenty for a dollar because 351 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 3: the Barcelona, the Italian currency was so devalued. 352 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 2: Oh, I see, it's perfectly legal. That's cold speculating exactly people. 353 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 3: They are currency traders on Wall Street doing it today. 354 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 2: That's how Soros made his money, precisely. Yeah, okay, exactly. 355 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 3: So Ponzie realizes, wait a second, this is great. All 356 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 3: I need, though, is money to get started. I have 357 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 3: to go invest money to make money. He goes to 358 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 3: a bank he had no credit he. 359 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 2: Had Okay, hold on, all right, No, no, don't be 360 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 2: sorry believing me. It's suspense. Here one eight Praguer seven 361 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 2: seven six the book Ponzi's Scheme Mitchell Zukoff, and then 362 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 2: we'll return in a moment how the scheme develops coming up. 363 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: This episode of timeless Wisdom will continue right after this. 364 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless wisdom. 365 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 2: Dennis Prager here, and boy am I waiting to hear 366 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 2: how this happens. Ponzi's the biography of Charles Ponzi, the 367 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 2: guy who invented the Ponzi scheme. And we're not talking 368 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 2: about Social Security because all of you called in on 369 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 2: that immediately. The true story of a financial legend. All right, 370 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 2: we're in nineteen nineteen Ponzi. Just to summarize for those 371 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,239 Speaker 2: who either don't have good memories or just tuned in. 372 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 2: Ponzi's an immigrant from Italy as both a heroic man 373 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 2: literally gave blocks of skin from his body to a 374 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 2: woman that he wasn't even involved with, just a woman 375 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 2: who had been burned and needed to live getting skin, 376 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,719 Speaker 2: and yet got in trouble with some little financial bad things, 377 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,880 Speaker 2: also smuggling some Italian immigrants in from Canada. It's now 378 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 2: nineteen nineteen? Is this now after the war? 379 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 3: Just after the war? 380 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 2: Yes? All righty, go ahead. So he has discovered that 381 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 2: you can make money with international ply coupons, which is legal. 382 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,479 Speaker 3: Yes, go ahead, But he doesn't have the money. It 383 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 3: takes money to make money. He's going to need some 384 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 3: kind of bank roll to go and buy these international 385 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 3: reply coupons and bring them back here and figure out 386 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 3: how to make the logistics work. So he goes to 387 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 3: a local bank and the bank just about laughs him 388 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 3: out the door. He's got no credit. He won't He 389 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 3: doesn't want to reveal his plan to them because he 390 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 3: thinks they'll steal it. So he goes around, tries to 391 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 3: borrow money from other places. 392 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 2: No luck. 393 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 3: So he decides, I've got to go to the public. 394 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 3: I've got to take my idea out and offer people 395 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 3: tremendous profits. I'll share these profits, but they need to 396 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 3: give me the seed money. So he offers. He opens 397 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 3: up a little storefront, not a real storefront, a little 398 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 3: office in downtown Boston on School Street, right around the 399 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 3: corner from Boston City Hall, and basically hangs out a shingle, 400 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 3: calling himself the Securities and Exchange Company. This is before 401 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 3: the SEC exists, only. 402 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 2: In America, Only in America, and that's what he's thinking, 403 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 2: Only in America. 404 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 3: The SEC isn't even around yet, right, So he gets 405 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 3: the name. He had it first, So people start slowly 406 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 3: dribbling in because he's offering such amazing profits. He will increase. 407 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 3: He'll give you fifty percent interest in forty five days. 408 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 2: Fifty fifty five. 409 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 3: Oh, now this is the time the banks for paying 410 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 3: what they are now a few percent a year. So 411 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 3: people tentatively started giving him money a few a few, 412 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 3: and when the time came for them to redeem their coupons, 413 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 3: so they redeem their certificates. He was ready to pay 414 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 3: with money from later investors. Because he still hadn't figured 415 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 3: out the logistics of his plan. He offered to give 416 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 3: them their money back. But what he did was said, 417 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,120 Speaker 3: of course, here's your money, but if, of course, if 418 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 3: you want to invest again, you can double it, you 419 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 3: know again, you know, you can keep. 420 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 2: The people think of, oh my god, look I could 421 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 2: obviously get fifty percent more, but why not do it again? 422 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 3: Okay, take another spin of the wheel. Right, So they did, 423 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 3: and money starts pouring in and pines. It gets a 424 00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 3: little nervous. He's really still trying to figure out. 425 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 2: Out what I was just going to ask you that 426 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 2: how does the guy sleep at night? Go ahead? 427 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 3: You know, he found a way. He kept trying to 428 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 3: figure out, how do I make this work? And it 429 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 3: became really apparent to him that there was no way 430 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 3: to possibly if I calculated once just his first eighteen investors, 431 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 3: if he had been able to get enough coupons to 432 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 3: pay them off. It would have been a stack twenty 433 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 3: one feet high. Now, once he had thousands of investors, 434 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 3: you'd have to have basically filled the Titanic with coupons. 435 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm starting to feel bad for him. 436 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 3: It's you know, you can see it. 437 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 2: The train is on the tracks, and so you don't 438 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 2: think he's going to bed every night just you know, 439 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 2: laughing at the public. 440 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 3: I know he's not for this reason. Right around this time, 441 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 3: he starts being treated for ulcers. He wants to succeed. 442 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 3: He is married. Part of what's driving him now is 443 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 3: not just the love of his mother and wanting to 444 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 3: satisfy her. He marries this beautiful young Italian American girl, 445 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 3: Rose Ganeco. Her father owned the little fruit stand here 446 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 3: in Boston and hero All Rose wants is a little 447 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 3: house with a nice family, a picket fence, and her 448 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 3: and her Charles. But he wants her dripping in diamonds 449 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 3: and bathed in furs, and so he wants to make 450 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,959 Speaker 3: her rich, and he wants to satisfy her beyond her 451 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 3: wildest dreams. 452 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 2: Does he have any children at this time, not yet. 453 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 3: They had just been married. He wanted to work. 454 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 2: How old is he now he is now thirty seven 455 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 2: and she's twenty one. 456 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 3: She's twenty one, okay, And there they've settled in a 457 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 3: nice little apartment in a suburb, and she just wants 458 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 3: to have the babies, but he's saying, wait, wait till 459 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 3: I'm a success. And things start taking off, and suddenly 460 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 3: the money's pouring in, and he says, let's go buy 461 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 3: a big house. And they bought a beautiful mansion in 462 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 3: the in the suburban village of Lexington. 463 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 2: Where you don't know, my heart is breaking, you know 464 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 2: it is. I'm living this. Yes, all right, hold on, 465 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 2: We'll be back in a moment. Ponzi's scheme, this is 466 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 2: the way to learn history, and my opinion. Mitchell Zukoff 467 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 2: and Dennis Prager one eight Prager seven seven six. 468 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this. 469 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom. 470 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 2: Okay, everybody, you're listening to the uh to the Dennis 471 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 2: Prager Show. And my guest is Mitchell Zukoff, who's written 472 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 2: this fascinating part of sliver of American history, the biography 473 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 2: of Charles Ponzi and the scheme. It's not the book, 474 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 2: after all, is titled Ponzi's Scheme. It's the sort of 475 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 2: history I love. Now, all right, this is the dramatic 476 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 2: moment here. Is it fair to say or is it 477 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 2: because you just have sympathy for your the subject of 478 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 2: your book, that one at this time is almost feeling 479 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 2: bad for Charles Ponzi. 480 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 3: I think that's fair to say. He is completely stressed out. 481 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 3: In other frauds, the whole thing is based on the 482 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 3: idea of when do I get out? Where's my exit door? 483 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 3: Ponzy never had one. Ponsey was not looking to get out. 484 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 3: He was looking to make good. All evidence points to it. 485 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 3: At one day he was walking around literally with a 486 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 3: one point two million dollar certificate deposit in his name 487 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 3: in his top pocket. In the other pocket of his 488 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 3: suit coat, he had two first class tickets to Italy 489 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 3: for the long awaited honeymoon he wanted to take with 490 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 3: his wife Rose. He could have left. 491 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 2: He was still a we're talking first class ship. 492 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 3: Absolutely, he could have just about bought the ship in 493 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 3: nineteen nineteen for a million two mm. He doesn't leave, 494 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 3: he doesn't want to leave, he wants to figure out, 495 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 3: and he is absolutely dressed out completely Oh my god, 496 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 3: how do I make good? So he wasn't just throwing in. 497 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 2: He never did the international reply coupon thing. 498 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 3: He tried again and again, and he realized finally there 499 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 3: was no way to do it on the scale that 500 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 3: would yield the profits on a time. 501 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 2: I can't believe it, and I hate this. Then I'm 502 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 2: feeling sympathy for the guy, because people but good. On 503 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 2: the other hand, there are people who gave their life savings. 504 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 3: I suspect there, certainly, But you know what, there was 505 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 3: an element of greed there as well. 506 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 2: Well. To win to make fifty forty five days, Yes, yeah, 507 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 2: that I would say greed is a fair stakes. But 508 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 2: on the other hand, you know. 509 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 3: People were taking and I guess my goal is to say, look, 510 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 3: Ponzi's name has been mud for eighty five years. It 511 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 3: was more complex than that, And certainly another man, a 512 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,959 Speaker 3: more moral man, maybe a man who didn't have the 513 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 3: pressure he felt to succeed, would have said, you know what, 514 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 3: I can't do this. Let me return what money I've 515 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 3: taken in and try to make good and repay those 516 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 3: who I can't. But the money kept coming in and 517 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 3: he didn't want to stop it. In January seventeen hundred 518 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 3: comes in when he first starts, by March twenty five thousand, 519 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 3: by May four hundred and forty thousand, by June two 520 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 3: point five million, and it's. 521 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 2: By two point five million dollars or people. 522 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 3: Dollars, but then closing in on a million a day 523 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 3: by the end of. 524 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 2: July, which is equivalent to what today over one. 525 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 3: Hundred million a day. It's about one hundred to one. 526 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 3: Excuse me, I shouldn't say that. It's more like fifteen 527 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 3: to eighteen to one. I'm talking about the total, but 528 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 3: you could you can see the scale. 529 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 2: We're talking saw about twenty million a day in our currents. 530 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 2: In our current yes, and. 531 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 3: It was only getting bigger. And people kept calling him. 532 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 3: They wanted to open up Euros for him across the country. 533 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 3: People were negotiating to take investments in New York, in Washington, 534 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 3: in tech in California. 535 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 2: Did anybody ask where are you getting the money from? 536 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 3: Yes? And he said he told this his reply coupon story. 537 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 3: He said, he had developed this system that the bankers 538 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 3: don't want to tell you about, and I am sharing 539 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 3: it with you. And people weren't getting money back. Those 540 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 3: who came and asked for their returns, came in and 541 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 3: walked out thousands of dollars richer, but most of them 542 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 3: just came back and went for another run. 543 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 2: Was there a limit to how much you could put in? 544 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 3: No, on any amount, and reporters were taken in. I've 545 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 3: got a copy of his certificate by a guy named 546 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 3: Principio Santosso, And mister Santosso was a reporter for the 547 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 3: Boston Post. He put in three hundred dollars when that 548 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 3: was more than his weekly paycheck back in June, and 549 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 3: the newspapers weren't even onto it. 550 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,959 Speaker 2: All right, all right, go ahead, We're gonna run out 551 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 2: of time, and I won't know how he got caught. 552 00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 2: Go ahead. 553 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 3: The key comes. In August of nineteen twenty, a young, 554 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 3: aggressive newspaper editor who was working in his father's shadow, 555 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 3: Richard Grozer of the Boston Post, decides there must be 556 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 3: something illegitimate here, No way could people possibly be making 557 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 3: these kinds of returns. And he six his best reporters 558 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 3: on Ponsi, and it's a weeks long battle of wills 559 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 3: and nerve to see who will survive, because ponsis saying, 560 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 3: you're wrong about me, I'm going to own your newspaper, 561 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 3: and most of the other papers in Boston said, hey, 562 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 3: we don't want any part of this. But Grozer kept 563 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 3: going at it, and when he finally got one of 564 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 3: his best reporters, herb Baldwin, up to Montreal, and he 565 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 3: found out about that forged Czech conviction, everything started to unravel, 566 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 3: and the house of cards that Ponzi had bit well and. 567 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 2: Are unraveled solely because the public now didn't have faith 568 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 2: in him. 569 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 3: There was this back and forth with the glow with 570 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 3: excuse me with the post was beating on him daily 571 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 3: and people are starting to wonder, hmm, maybe there is 572 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 3: something going on here, and they started coming back asking 573 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 3: for their money back. But then the pista resistance, the 574 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 3: coup de gras, was her Baldwin going up to Montreal 575 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 3: finding out that Ponzi had been on that particular kind 576 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 3: of crime, a fraud, a bank check forgery, was enough 577 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 3: to get people convinced that he must not be legitimate, 578 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 3: and they came crashing through his doors demanding the money, 579 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 3: and of course it was it was all gone. 580 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 2: So how long was he in operation? 581 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 3: Eight months? 582 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 2: Oh wow? How fast? 583 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 3: How fast? From from the top he was driving the locomobile, 584 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 3: the most expensive car of its day. 585 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 2: You know, my heartbreak I could only imagine. Because he 586 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 2: so wanted to prove himself to his family. 587 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 3: He brought his mother over at the pink of it. 588 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 3: He hadn't seen her in seventeen years. It finally made 589 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 3: it so he puts her on a first class ship 590 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 3: instead of using his own tickets. He brings her over 591 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 3: with a nurse so he could see. 592 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 2: I'm did anybody also report that he gave skin? 593 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 3: Not until after the fall? 594 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 2: All right? So the fall is very fast. People come 595 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 2: to the doors and there's no money to give them. 596 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 3: Exactly. 597 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 2: I'm surprised he didn't shoot himself. 598 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 3: You know, he was a tremendous optimist. He kept insisting 599 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 3: to the last that with a little more time, with 600 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 3: a little more. 601 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 2: He can make the irc work. Exactly how long did 602 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 2: he go to jail for? 603 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 3: First he goes for two years, a federal He goes 604 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 3: on a federal term, and then the state of Massachusetts 605 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 3: decided they wanted a pound of flesh as well, for 606 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 3: another seven years, and then they deport him back to Italy. 607 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 2: All right, some final thoughts with you when we come 608 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 2: back what a sad story Ponzi scheme Mitchell Zukoff. I'm 609 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 2: Dennis Prager back in a. 610 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 6: Moment, but my name is Dan Older. I'm calling from Rogers, Minnesota, 611 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 6: the suburb just outside in Minneapolis, and I just wanted 612 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 6: to thank Dennis for the wisdom, the rational way of 613 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 6: looking at things. It's been an instrumental in my life. 614 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:14,959 Speaker 6: I started listening to Dennis about fifteen years ago, and 615 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 6: oddly I was praying for peace of mind and wisdom, 616 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 6: and you were introduced. And my life is not a utopia, 617 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 6: but it has been improved and I appreciate that so 618 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 6: much of it has to do with Dennis Prager. So 619 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 6: thank you. Dennis. If you're listening to this, please know 620 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 6: you have made a huge difference in this person's life, 621 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 6: and it's cascaded into others that are close to me. 622 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 6: Love you, take care, and thanks again. 623 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: Are you enjoying timeless wisdom? We'd love to hear from you. 624 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: Call eight seven seven two four three seventy seven seventy 625 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: six and leave a review, share your thoughts, or just 626 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: even an encouraging word for Dennis. Your voicemail might just 627 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: make it on the show. That's eight two three seventy seven, 628 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,719 Speaker 1: seventy six. That's eight seven seven two four three triple 629 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 1: seven six. Thanks for listening and for your support. 630 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 2: All right, everybody, I'm so sorry I couldn't get more calls. 631 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 2: And some of you have stories of various Ponzi schemes. 632 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,760 Speaker 2: But the hour goes so fast and the book reads 633 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,240 Speaker 2: like you like you speak. It's this really fascinating stuff. 634 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 2: I wish you were good luck on your book. 635 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 3: Thanks very much, Dennis. 636 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 2: He's deported. Charles Ponzi, the inventor of the scheme by 637 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 2: which his name is known, is then deported after nine 638 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:38,959 Speaker 2: years in prison. 639 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 3: A little more even Yeah, yeah, nineteen thirty four, so 640 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 3: he's inn't out of prison much. 641 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 2: Did Rose divorce him. 642 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 3: Well, regrettably, yes, she couldn't imagine going back to a 643 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,879 Speaker 3: place to Italy where she had never been. They had 644 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 3: no money. But interestingly, her family, who were wonderful to 645 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 3: me while I was writing this book, kept all the 646 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 3: letters between them that Ponzi had sent to her over 647 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 3: the years, and the one thing that was very clear 648 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 3: is that their love never died. Right up to the 649 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 3: end of his life, she was sending him letters. They 650 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 3: were talking about getting back together and they were really 651 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 3: sort of sweet love notes between the two of them 652 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 3: right up to the end. 653 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 2: But she did marry another man. 654 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 3: Only after Ponzi was dead. 655 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 2: Only after Oh, she stayed married to him, No, she was. 656 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 3: She did divorce him in name. 657 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 2: She divorced him in name, but kept writing love notes 658 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 2: they both to each other, absolutely, And he never remarried. 659 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 3: He never remarried. 660 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 2: And why did he did? He die of pauper in Italy? 661 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 3: He died. He ended up going to Rio de Janeiro 662 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 3: to start the Italian Airline was opening an office there 663 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 3: and they hired him and that didn't work out well, 664 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 3: and he did end up a pauper in Rio de Janeiro. 665 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 3: He had seventy five dollars to his name. He died 666 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 3: in a charity hospital and there was just enough left 667 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 3: to bury him. 668 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 2: And she died at what three, Yeah, at ninety three, 669 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,359 Speaker 2: and only married after he died. Yes, it's a very 670 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,280 Speaker 2: powerful story. Thank you well, I thank you. The book 671 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 2: is Ponzi's scheme. And Mitchell Zukoff, what are you going 672 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 2: to write on next steroids? P? T. Barnum? Are you serious? 673 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 5: Yeah? 674 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 2: Is he the one who said that a sucker is 675 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 2: bored every minute. 676 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 3: You know, somebody said about him, Oh it. 677 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 2: Was about him. I promise to have you on when. 678 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 3: You write it a pleasure, all right, thank. 679 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:36,359 Speaker 2: You so much, thank you, good luck. You know, it's 680 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 2: a very touching story, and it reaffirms my belief about 681 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 2: having to take the moral bank account of an individual, 682 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 2: because you know, there are bad guys and there are 683 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 2: I don't know, well intentioned losers, and he's more in 684 00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 2: that category, I guess, And I must say to you, 685 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 2: I don't know if the bad he did ever match 686 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 2: the good he did with that skin story. Well, whatever 687 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 2: your conclusion, it's another sliver of Americana brought to you 688 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 2: on the Dennis Prager Show. 689 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: Don't Go Away tomorrow on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager, I'm. 690 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,240 Speaker 2: Going to raise with you a very difficult subject today 691 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 2: and one I have raised in a different context than this, 692 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 2: and it is about two things though they are utterly related, 693 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 2: and that is psychotherapy and you're perceiving yourself as a victim. 694 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 2: One of the reasons I am so angry at those 695 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,720 Speaker 2: who tell members of any given group in this world 696 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 2: how victimized they are is that they are ensuring that 697 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 2: members of that group be angry and unhappy, or unhappy 698 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 2: and therefore angry. It is a staggeringly awful disservice to 699 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 2: people to tell them to define themselves by their victim status. 700 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,720 Speaker 2: And there are any number of examples, but I won't 701 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 2: give them now because I don't want to politicize this hour. 702 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 2: You can think up your own examples of groups in 703 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,800 Speaker 2: this world and in this country. But I'm now talking 704 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 2: not about groups. I'm talking about you and me and 705 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:37,800 Speaker 2: every individual. Every one of us has been a victim 706 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 2: of something. Everyone on earth. You name it an unfair, 707 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 2: unfair home life where parents have failed them, bad siblings, 708 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 2: unfair unfairness at that school, unfairness in the physical endowments 709 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 2: that they may have been given from birth. I mean, 710 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,319 Speaker 2: it is endless. It is endless. Everybody has a capacity. 711 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 2: Every one of you listening. I could create a biography 712 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 2: of any of you listening, a two page bio or 713 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 2: a ten page bio showing how much a victim you are. Now, 714 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 2: this is not to say there are no victims. I'm 715 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 2: not a fool. Of course they're a victim. My point is, though, 716 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 2: do you walk around with that self perception? 717 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 1: Join us tomorrow to hear more on Timeless Wisdom with 718 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:35,400 Speaker 1: Dennis Prager, Visit Denispragger dot com for thousands of hours 719 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: of Dennis's lectures, courses in classic radio programs, and to 720 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles. We want to take just 721 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: a second to thank the team at Life Audio for 722 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 1: their partnership with us on the podcast. Go to lifeaudio 723 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: dot com to find dozens of other faith centered podcasts 724 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: and their network, including shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, 725 00:39:58,760 --> 00:39:59,240 Speaker 1: and more.