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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: Hey Alexander, thanks for joining me.

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Speaker 1: Incredible to be here. Thank you my friend Alexander Pappasa,

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Speaker 1: who has a new EP.

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Speaker 2: It's called Sunday. Alexander. Of course, you are a founding

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Speaker 2: member of the Grammy nominated group Hillsong, Young and Free,

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Speaker 2: known for many songs that you've written or co written,

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Speaker 2: including A Live Wake, Real Love Echo, one of my

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Speaker 2: favorite songs of all time, a great Awakening, you know how.

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Speaker 2: But a new solo project, of course, tell me the

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Speaker 2: heart behind this EP, Sunday.

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Speaker 1: And why did you name it Sunday. Yeah, that's a

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Speaker 1: good question, and yeah, I mean it really does kind

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Speaker 1: of start with a little bit of a rewind for me.

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Speaker 1: As you said, I was a part of Hillsong Young

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Speaker 1: and Free and making church music with my best friends,

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Speaker 1: and then there came a time that I wanted to

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Speaker 1: create some music, you know, on my own, and what

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Speaker 1: was at that time a side project, and it was

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Speaker 1: it was Jesus music, but it was what I referred

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Speaker 1: to as Monday music. It wasn't for church, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: to be sung in church. It was it was to

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Speaker 1: minister to people's Mondays, as I referred to it. And

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Speaker 1: then I sort of went through some personal life stuff

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Speaker 1: as well as my church is no secret, went through

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Speaker 1: a number of things as well, you know, and I

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Speaker 1: won't get too into the details, but yeah, feeling like

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Speaker 1: I was like, maybe maybe I'm done with ministry, or

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Speaker 1: maybe ministry is done with me. Maybe yeah, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: and navigating navigating that emotionally and spiritually, which yeah, led

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Speaker 1: to a place of feeling very specifically the Lord being like, no,

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Speaker 1: it's this is what I called you to do. This

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Speaker 1: is what I made you to do. And I I

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Speaker 1: could go even deeper in my story of this is

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Speaker 1: kind of even from sixteen years old, of people people

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Speaker 1: speaking over me ministry while I was personally, you know,

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Speaker 1: not entirely like, oh, I don't know. I want to

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Speaker 1: do ministry, but I don't know if music ministry is

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Speaker 1: my calling. All that to say this tide, the title

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Speaker 1: of this project is Sunday as much for me as

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Speaker 1: it has become for everybody else in what I've figured

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Speaker 1: out the value and importance of Sunday. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: this was my re entry, if you will, back into man,

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Speaker 1: I really feel called to making songs for the church.

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Speaker 1: And while going through this you know, it's no secret

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Speaker 1: as well that the world sort of at moments feels

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Speaker 1: like a bleak place. The Gospel of Jesus isn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: a popular thing to talk about. We all talk about

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Speaker 1: spirituality in God, but shy away from the truth of

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Speaker 1: who Jesus Christ is. And so feeling really inspired and

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Speaker 1: encourage that there's a great move of God on the way,

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Speaker 1: and so it makes a songwriter in someone in ministry

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Speaker 1: like myself, with well, if there's a great move of God,

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Speaker 1: what part can I play in all of this or

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Speaker 1: any of this? And you know, if Sundays exist to equip,

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Speaker 1: empower and stretch the saints, then I pray to write

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Speaker 1: songs that would do exactly that. I'd pray that I

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Speaker 1: might write songs that not only equip them on a Sunday,

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Speaker 1: but they can be a tool for people the other

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Speaker 1: six days of the week. And so there's no song

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Speaker 1: called Sunday on this except these are songs to be

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Speaker 1: that equipping source for people seven days a week.

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Speaker 2: I like what you use an illustration on your social media.

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Speaker 2: You said you compare the importance of Sunday to the

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Speaker 2: importance of training in a gym or you know, training

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Speaker 2: for a basketball team, so on and so forth. Explain

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Speaker 2: what you mean by that and the parallel there and

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Speaker 2: why why are Sunday is so important to the Body

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Speaker 2: of Christ.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I think if anyone's been serving in church

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Speaker 1: or been in church, or especially worship leaders, there's this

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Speaker 1: nuance of work. Every believer is called to live a

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Speaker 1: lifestyle of worship. Right, this is the end all, This

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Speaker 1: is the thing, This is the thing that we're striving for.

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Speaker 1: Right And as someone who leads songs, I know that

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Speaker 1: the singing portion is only only one fraction, one small

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Speaker 1: fraction of what it is to have a actual lifestyle

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Speaker 1: of worship. And so you wrestle with this, is this enough?

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Speaker 2: What are we doing?

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Speaker 1: And is it enough? And I think the revelation I

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Speaker 1: have today, and I think anybody who's walked with Jesus

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Speaker 1: as well, who's listening to this, knows that at certain

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Speaker 1: stages of your maturity with Jesus, you'll look back and

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Speaker 1: be like, I feel like I didn't know anything. I

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Speaker 1: thought I knew everything two years ago, and now I

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Speaker 1: feel like I knew nothing then. And then I think

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Speaker 1: that's the beauty of it is. There's so much more

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Speaker 1: of Jesus that we find, And so I don't say that.

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Speaker 1: And if you've anyone else has experienced that, don't be

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Speaker 1: hard on yourself. That's the beauty of Jesus. There's so

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Speaker 1: much more of them defied. But I feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: operating in this man like revelation of new of the

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Speaker 1: point of Sundays, like I said briefly, is too equipped

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Speaker 1: and power and stretch the same point. But more than that,

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Speaker 1: I consider like I go deeper. Like you know those

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Speaker 1: moments in worship when you know a worship leader invites

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Speaker 1: you to respond, Hey, sing your song in your own way.

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Speaker 1: If you're a little bit of the more Pentecostal ilk perhaps,

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Speaker 1: and if you're not, that's okay too. But you know

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Speaker 1: these motion what's the point of all these? And I've

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Speaker 1: come to believe it's practice. I've come to this revelation

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Speaker 1: that when conditions are perfect, when the air conditioning is good,

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Speaker 1: your children are in the childcare program, and for an

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Speaker 1: hour and thirty minutes you have set aside time to

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Speaker 1: be with Jesus. As I was saying, I've come to

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Speaker 1: this place of yes, first and foremost that twenty minutes,

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Speaker 1: however much time you have of corporate worship in a service.

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Speaker 1: While first and foremost it is to give God glory

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Speaker 1: that he so deserves, it is also God doesn't need

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Speaker 1: his glory is unchanged by our praise and worship. It

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Speaker 1: really is. If we sank or didn't sing, his glory

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Speaker 1: would remain the same. You know, talks about how even

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Speaker 1: the angels that encircle his throne, every time they go

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Speaker 1: around and see his face once again, they're overwhelmed by

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Speaker 1: his glory, by his majesty. And while he doesn't need it,

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Speaker 1: we do. We actually desperately need that connection. We actually

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Speaker 1: desperately need to be changed by the presence of God.

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Speaker 1: We desperately need to be people who are who live

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Speaker 1: in this right response, this David Like lifestyle of worship,

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Speaker 1: right response of man after God's own heart, for example.

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Speaker 1: And so these moments, like I've said, I consider them

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Speaker 1: practice because then when things actually get tough, right when

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Speaker 1: you get a bad report, when you get something at work,

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Speaker 1: when you get a bad doctor's doctor's report, when something's

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Speaker 1: going on with your kids, I just go thank God

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Speaker 1: for the moments that we actually practiced worship, the moments

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Speaker 1: that we actually practiced responding rightly, and so to some extent,

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Speaker 1: I would say these Sundays that these moments in worship

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Speaker 1: are like strength training. They are like a physical therapist

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Speaker 1: and you know, sinking your teeth into songs. It could

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Speaker 1: be songs, it can be devotionals, whatever you want it

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Speaker 1: to be, to actually be that physical therapist, to actually

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Speaker 1: get ready for the big game and my life personally.

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Speaker 1: I say this as not as a hypothetical or like

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Speaker 1: or you know, but there's a song on this project

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Speaker 1: called It is So Sweet, and that song is truly

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Speaker 1: about the actual, you know, exercise of real life usage

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Speaker 1: of I won't do this alone. I will this moment

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Speaker 1: that my part rate is out of control, that my

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Speaker 1: mind is flooding with thoughts of being overwhelmed. I'm actually

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Speaker 1: going to choose to walk with Jesus in this. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna end this moment of elevated heart rate and losing control.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say, Jesus, I need you in this.

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Speaker 1: I want to walk with you in this. And every

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Speaker 1: single time I've experienced him show up just in that moment,

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Speaker 1: my heart rate calm down, rational sense coming back in,

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Speaker 1: because his yoke is easy, but his burden is light,

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Speaker 1: meaning the burden is still going to be there. The

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Speaker 1: burden is still going to be there as soon as

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Speaker 1: we put on the yoke, but it's much easier. And

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Speaker 1: so I pray you that songs on this project would

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Speaker 1: minister to moments such as that.

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Speaker 2: I got a multi multi part question, I guess coase

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Speaker 2: for you. I was wondering to take me back at

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Speaker 2: the beginning of when you sensed a calling into worship

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Speaker 2: music or you know, making music for the Lord? Did

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Speaker 2: it parallel your participation with Hillsong, Young and Free? At

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Speaker 2: what part did those intersect?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So I was a I grew up in a

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Speaker 1: small town in Idaho. I don't know if any of

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Speaker 1: you's ever heard of Idaho, but it's really it's really nice.

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Speaker 1: And I wound up in Sydney, Australia to study at

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Speaker 1: Hillsong's College. And as that was finishing, I felt this

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Speaker 1: strong poll that I was meant to stay in Australia,

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Speaker 1: and twenty twenty one year old me goes Hellsong's got

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Speaker 1: a ton of great worship leaders. In what world do

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Speaker 1: they need a kid? What is God calling me a

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Speaker 1: kid from Idaho to stay? I actually will never forget

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Speaker 1: I received this word by so many people who wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have known the internal wrestle that was going on of like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I feel like God leading me to stay, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know why. I have all these dreams of my

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Speaker 1: own and desires, and the word that I received, and

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Speaker 1: I do believe this word is for everybody is You'll

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Speaker 1: never come second by putting God first, and any major

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Speaker 1: decision that I have ever felt, I'm at a crossroads

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Speaker 1: and feeling like, well, I can honor God and put

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Speaker 1: him first in this path, and I can honor God

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Speaker 1: and put him first in this path, and as long

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Speaker 1: as I'm it's as long as I'm putting him first, anyone,

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Speaker 1: I can't lose whichever way I choose. And uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I felt I felt called to stay. I felt called

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Speaker 1: to do that, and in doing so, I prayed this

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Speaker 1: prayer to God. I said, Lord, I've got these dreams

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Speaker 1: to write songs and would love to travel the world

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Speaker 1: and get to play them. And should that not be

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Speaker 1: your will for me? Like Lord, I truly die to self,

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Speaker 1: like I lay them down before you. I'm not kidding that.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't days later that I got invited. It's little

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Speaker 1: but I got invited to play base on a like

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Speaker 1: college tour to India. Right, it was the farthest thing

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Speaker 1: from glamorous, but it was just that, you know, that

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Speaker 1: confirmation from the Lord. He's like, hey, I care, I

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Speaker 1: care about your dreams too, And so I made a

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Speaker 1: commitment to stay. I got a job as a youth

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Speaker 1: creative pastor, and then it wasn't it wasn't weeks later

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Speaker 1: that you know this the dream from our leadership for

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Speaker 1: Young and Free to start came to be. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: in that position, I sort of just started writing songs

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Speaker 1: thinking at the time in truth, I thought I would

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Speaker 1: play bass in the band. So even the first I so,

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Speaker 1: we had written the song Alive, which kind of ended

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Speaker 1: up being the re catalyst for what Young and Free was.

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Speaker 1: We had a we had a couple other songs in

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Speaker 1: the bank that I always say they sounded like United hillsong,

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Speaker 1: United b Sides, you know, and I had like, you know,

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Speaker 1: in a harsh way on us, but it's like you

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Speaker 1: when you grow up on something, you you imitate, You

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Speaker 1: imitate the things that influenced you. And so that you know,

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Speaker 1: that's what we were doing. And then Alive really like

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Speaker 1: clicked us into like this is who we are, but

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Speaker 1: we probably showed people the week of the recording. It

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Speaker 1: was like we were recording on a Friday night and

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Speaker 1: we set the demo off on like a Monday. And yeah, truly,

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Speaker 1: at that point, I was like, I would be thrilled

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Speaker 1: if this new ministry, like I got to play basin

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Speaker 1: Like that would be that would be sick, that would

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Speaker 1: be like, that would be God answering my prayer. You know,

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Speaker 1: truly is like I'm writing songs and traveling like to

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Speaker 1: play music. This is this is the dream. And it

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Speaker 1: literally like that like Thursday or Friday. I was like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: You're gonna sing it. And it was just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: like God, you are the above and beyond God that

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Speaker 1: I've heard about and not to say in the last

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Speaker 1: whatever fifteen years that hasn't you know, hasn't had its

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Speaker 1: mountains and its valleys within it. But yeah, there was

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Speaker 1: kind of just this intersection of trusting God and knowing

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Speaker 1: that he knows best.

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Speaker 2: So when we hear I'm asking you this question because

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Speaker 2: a lot of these groups that have you know, five

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Speaker 2: or ten members, we don't really know who's singing unless

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Speaker 2: we're watching it on video, so on tracks like a

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Speaker 2: live in real love. Is that your voice?

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Speaker 1: That is?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's your voice? Okay, Well what is it like

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Speaker 2: for you to cause those are really popular songs that

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Speaker 2: are played, goodness everywhere in the world. What is it

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Speaker 2: like for you to go somewhere and hear that song

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Speaker 2: being played? What was it like the first time?

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Speaker 1: I mean it's I would truly say it's as humbling

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Speaker 1: today as it was then. There are endlessly good songs

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Speaker 1: being written by people who are better than me, or

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Speaker 1: you know, better than me musically, or better than me

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Speaker 1: Jesus wise, I don't know, but I've never not humbled truly,

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Speaker 1: And that sounds a little like I'm fluffing a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I'm just so just so humbled that people

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Speaker 1: resonate with the songs. And as long as I'm doing this,

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Speaker 1: my number one goal is it's even you know, rewinding

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Speaker 1: to this project being called on that I felt the

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Speaker 1: urge to, you know, emphasize that while this was birthed

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Speaker 1: out of something I felt called back into, this project

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Speaker 1: was written. Every time I write it's for the men,

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Speaker 1: I pray that this just ministers to somebody And you

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Speaker 1: can't you can't write songs thinking about I hope the

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Speaker 1: whole globe is going to sing this song, like I

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Speaker 1: just got to think about, like, man, how would this,

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Speaker 1: how would this minister to me? How would this minister

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Speaker 1: the person that is walking through this? And I mean

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Speaker 1: that including these high energy praise songs, and a number

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Speaker 1: of these songs were written even then out of like

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Speaker 1: I don't really like feel like praising or I don't

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Speaker 1: really feel like There's another song specifically, there was a

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Speaker 1: young and free song called level let Me Down, and

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Speaker 1: it was written because I said to my co writer,

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Speaker 1: my collaborator, I feel unbelievably let down by God at

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Speaker 1: the moment, and he goes, well, let's write that song.

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Speaker 1: And he's the producer, and I'm like trying to write

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Speaker 1: a sad song. I'm on the piano or trying to

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Speaker 1: write the saddest like, you know, just like a faith statement,

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Speaker 1: and he's like writing dance beats. I'm like, what are

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Speaker 1: you doing, dude? But I say all that to say

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Speaker 1: is is you know these were written out of places

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Speaker 1: like even I don't even fully believe it, but I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna sing it until I do. And so that's that's

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Speaker 1: been my philosophy kind of ever since, to write songs

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Speaker 1: that would whether you believe it at the moment, but

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Speaker 1: you know it to be true, something that you'll sing

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Speaker 1: it until you believe it. You know.

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Speaker 2: I'm a this is kind of a funny story. I'm

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Speaker 2: a volunteer DJ for my kids Hi high school private

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Speaker 2: school basketball team, and so we play some of these songs,

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Speaker 2: you know, at half time and during during a timeouts

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Speaker 2: and whatever.

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Speaker 1: So those songs are used everywhere, not even in the

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Speaker 1: not even in church, but everywhere in the world. Do

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Speaker 1: you still have a heart for hyenergy music or I mean,

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Speaker 1: have your taste changed as you have grown? Do you

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Speaker 1: know what? If anybody listening to this podcast appreciates this,

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Speaker 1: there is there is there's something in the church world

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Speaker 1: that is the up tempo song is quote unquote like

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Speaker 1: the have a go for the young worship leader, right

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Speaker 1: like in many like models of leadership of bringing somebody through,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like, well, we'll trust you with the

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Speaker 1: fast song. And I think to some extent, a lot

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Speaker 1: of churches, and I don't mean this critically, but creaked

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Speaker 1: you know, the fast song as a warm up, right,

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Speaker 1: they treat it as that and I've probably lived much

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Speaker 1: of my you know, young adult life believing I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh yeah, like I want to leave the lead the

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Speaker 1: fast song, but I want people to like get that

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Speaker 1: I'm deep. I want people to get that I've like

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Speaker 1: I've got I've got range, like I can I can

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Speaker 1: sing this song too. And to answer your question, I

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Speaker 1: have felt in years previously, much like I talked about,

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Speaker 1: you know, this physical therapist like strength training thing. Man,

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Speaker 1: I believe in the power of of praise as well

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Speaker 1: as such an unbelievable strength training tool in that man,

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Speaker 1: if I can't praise, you know, so many times through

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Speaker 1: scripture it speaks of praise, not a quiet, soft, internal

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Speaker 1: reflective response to God, which is a beautiful thing as well,

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Speaker 1: But breakthrough so often is used with the word of praise,

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Speaker 1: an outword, outspoken, this physical response to God. And I

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Speaker 1: just pray. I'm like, I pray that I have not

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Speaker 1: diminished the power of praise. And so I feel more

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Speaker 1: than ever that I believe in the eye energy song.

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Speaker 1: I believe that that unlocks so much more joy, so

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Speaker 1: much more freedom. And yeah, I feel like until I'm

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Speaker 1: ninety years old, I intend to be praising. I intend

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Speaker 1: to be dancing. I intend to offer something to the

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Speaker 1: Lord that is not just internal for me, but something

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Speaker 1: that is physical, that is outward for him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because you've been you you wrote many of those

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Speaker 2: songs years ago, but in recent years you've been involved

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Speaker 2: in Lakewood Music. They have some Hypergi stuff and you

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Speaker 2: wrote I think you're a co writer of Echo as well.

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Speaker 2: I mentioned that earlier with Elevation Worship and Torn Well,

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Speaker 2: so that you haven't You're still writing songs like that,

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Speaker 2: is what I'm trying to say here. I guess if

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Speaker 2: this is if your musical career is like pots on

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Speaker 2: a stove, it seems like you have lots of lots

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Speaker 2: of pots on the stove right now. You're involved in

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Speaker 2: Lakewood Music, you have solo project. How many things are

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Speaker 2: you involved in right now?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean high activity would be myself, Lakewood Music,

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Speaker 1: those guys, in short, they have been really good friends

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Speaker 1: of mine for about twelve years. They used to come

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Speaker 1: out to our conferences in Australia or New York and

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Speaker 1: and have become real lifelong buds. So getting to be

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Speaker 1: involved and making music with them has been awesome. And

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Speaker 1: then my home church is still Hillsong church, and so

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Speaker 1: we've been doing We've just kind of started making Hillsong

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Speaker 1: worship songs again. We released five songs I think in

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Speaker 1: February or something. There's one there's one more high energy

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Speaker 1: prey song in there too, called good News. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: those would be my irons in the fire right now.

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Speaker 1: I was writing for other artists and it's a real,

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Speaker 1: a real blessing to get to make music all the time.

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Speaker 1: Let's circle back to the.

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Speaker 2: New EP, which is Sunday and when people listening to

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Speaker 2: the podcast it will have been released. Alexander, what do

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Speaker 2: you what do you hope people take away from someday

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Speaker 2: when they're listening to it? Do you what do you

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Speaker 2: hope people are thinking about us they listen to it?

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Speaker 1: Well? I put the the project together in many ways

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Speaker 1: like a I would put together a church set list,

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Speaker 1: So if you listen to it, it kind of has

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Speaker 1: that sort of flow. And Yeah, to expand on the

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Speaker 1: things I I already said, you know, I pray that

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Speaker 1: it would be an encouragement and equipping in a stretching

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Speaker 1: tool for them. I think there are things in the

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Speaker 1: song and messages within the songs that I just I

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Speaker 1: really pray that those specific messages would would land the

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Speaker 1: people I've already talked about. I pray people grasp that

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Speaker 1: Jesus is available to walk with them every day. And

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Speaker 1: I think one of the big takeaways there's a song

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Speaker 1: on this project called Always Been Jesus, and this came

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Speaker 1: out of a revelation of what started with the story

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Speaker 1: of Abraham and Isaac. The very first time the word

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Speaker 1: that we use for worship is used in the Bible

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Speaker 1: is in this story, is when God calls Abraham to

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Speaker 1: sacrifice his son. It's not the first time worship occurs

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Speaker 1: in scripture, but it's the first time that this specific yes,

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Speaker 1: not the first time worship itself had occurred, this word

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Speaker 1: for worship, excuse me. And so it's this story of

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Speaker 1: a father sacrificing his son and there being a substitute,

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Speaker 1: there being We know how it ends, we know there

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Speaker 1: was a ram in the thicket. But what struck me

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Speaker 1: so deeply is seeing the parallel of that, the very

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Speaker 1: thing that this thing that God that Jesus calls us

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Speaker 1: to do to worship, to live this lifestyle of worship,

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Speaker 1: like I said, is is something that he is not

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Speaker 1: a God in heaven demanding this worship. Like I said before,

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Speaker 1: he is His glory is unchanged by us singing the song,

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Speaker 1: but we are changed. We need it. It is for

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Speaker 1: his glory, but it is for our gain. And but

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Speaker 1: this very first thing that you do would be foreshadowed

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Speaker 1: by the very thing he would do for us, That

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Speaker 1: he would send his own son as a sacrifice for it,

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Speaker 1: that you would take our place, this act of worship,

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Speaker 1: the weird call is is the thing that he would

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Speaker 1: do for us first. And so I say that to

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Speaker 1: be he is such a good God. The plan has

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Speaker 1: always been Jesus. The plan will always be Jesus. And

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Speaker 1: there's this line in the song that says, it's not

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Speaker 1: just the red letters that speak, You're in the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: meaning it's not just the red letters where we see Jesus.

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Speaker 1: We see Jesus throughout the entire book. We see these

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Speaker 1: foreshadowing moments. We see the beauty of scripture, we see

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Speaker 1: the beauty of Jesus. And so I just pray that

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Speaker 1: there is a deeper revelation of who Jesus is. And

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Speaker 1: I pray that there is a deeper trust in who

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Speaker 1: Jesus is, that he is even better than we thought

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Speaker 1: he was.

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Speaker 3: If you like today's episode, please subscribe and leave a

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Speaker 3: five star review. That's how we help more people just

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Speaker 3: like you find the show. A big thanks to the

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Speaker 3: team at life Audio for their partnership with us on

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Speaker 3: the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com, you

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Speaker 3: will find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in their network.

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Speaker 3: See you next time.