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Speaker 1: As a Christian, I believe the Bible is the inspired

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Speaker 1: word of God. The Bible is the book in which

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Speaker 1: God communicates his formula for how we should live. And

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Speaker 1: yet the Bible is not really a single book. We

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Speaker 1: think of it that way, it seems that way when

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Speaker 1: we hold it in our hand, but in reality, the

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Speaker 1: Bible is a collection of books written by many different

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Speaker 1: writers over a long period of time. In a sense,

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Speaker 1: the Bible is not an inspired book, but an inspired

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Speaker 1: library and inspired collection of books written down over a

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Speaker 1: period of one thousand to fifteen hundred years. But how

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Speaker 1: do we know that the books in the Bible are

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Speaker 1: the ones that God inspired? How do we know they've

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Speaker 1: come down to us accurately through the ages? Who chose

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Speaker 1: those books? When? And on what basis? For centuries, these

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Speaker 1: questions were asked only by scholars, but not by ordinary

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Speaker 1: Christian believers. The Bible was taken, for the most part

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Speaker 1: on faith. God said it, I believe it. And that's that.

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Speaker 1: Our society was largely Christian and therefore the assumptions of

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Speaker 1: Christian orthodoxy were taken for granted. But today our culture

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Speaker 1: is largely secular, and this secularism is the foundation of

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Speaker 1: our education system and our mainstream media today. We're aware

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Speaker 1: that for centuries before the printing press, the Bible was

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Speaker 1: copied by hand by scribes, and scribes not only make errors,

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Speaker 1: but scribes of their own predilections and prejudices. And so

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Speaker 1: we wonder could some of these guys have changed the

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Speaker 1: Bible along the way? Is the Old Testament as we

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Speaker 1: have it today, the same one that Jesus read and taught. Moreover,

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Speaker 1: today we know about books from early Christianity that didn't

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Speaker 1: make it into the Bible. We're aware of the literature

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Speaker 1: of Gnosticism ever since Elaine Pegels wrote her book The

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Speaker 1: Gnostic Gospels. We're aware of the existence of alternative gospels,

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Speaker 1: such as the Gospel of and the Gospel of Peter.

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Speaker 1: There's also the Book of Enoch. I'm making a video

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Speaker 1: series of Noah's Ark studying the geology of the flood,

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Speaker 1: the world before the flood, and the archaeology of the arc.

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Speaker 1: Have been reading the Book of Enoch, which talks about

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Speaker 1: giants and fallen angels and the rise of the Nephelm.

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Speaker 1: Incredible stuff. The Book of Enoch is mentioned in the Bible,

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Speaker 1: but it didn't make it into the Bible. Now why

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Speaker 1: not Why do we have Ecclesiastes but not Enoch and

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Speaker 1: in the New Testament? Why do we have the Gospels

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Speaker 1: of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John but not the Gospels

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Speaker 1: of Peter and Thomas. Clearly there's a process of selection

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Speaker 1: that decided that these books were in and the rest

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Speaker 1: of them were out. But who decided when and how?

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Speaker 1: In some ways, these questions are not merely of religious

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Speaker 1: but also of historical and cultural significance. We speak of

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Speaker 1: a biblical canon. The term means rule or measure. The

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Speaker 1: Biblical canon reflects Orthodoxy, and that term simply means the

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Speaker 1: right or true path. Orthodox he is contrasted with heresia

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Speaker 1: terms which refers to a deviant or wrong path. Now,

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Speaker 1: the Bible doesn't itself specify which books ought to be

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Speaker 1: in the Bible. Canons are not born, They don't spring

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Speaker 1: out of the ground. They're made. So who made them?

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Speaker 1: Many Christians would answer, well, God, God did it. Yet,

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Speaker 1: if God made the canon, how did he let us

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Speaker 1: know that? Why didn't God emblaze in his true list

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Speaker 1: of books in the sky so we could all look

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Speaker 1: up and go, those are the ones that God wants

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Speaker 1: us to read. Canons are assembled by human beings. They're

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Speaker 1: are human production. Think of the canon of the Great

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Speaker 1: Books of Western civilization. When I was younger, we had

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Speaker 1: a course on that at Dartmouth. We read the so

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Speaker 1: called great books. Now we all know some of these

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Speaker 1: major authors Homer, Sophocles, Dante, Shakespeare, Milton. But the Western

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Speaker 1: canon also has a secondary list Euripides, Charlotte, Bronte, Joseph Conrad,

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Speaker 1: Robert Frost and who makes those lists well, faculty committees do.

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Speaker 1: The list is also somewhat flexible. While the major authors

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Speaker 1: always make the cut, sometimes the secondary list is modified

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Speaker 1: through edition and subtraction. This year will do Escalists instead

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Speaker 1: of Europeanes. We'll do sol Janiedsen instead of Conrad. So

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Speaker 1: the canon is flexible, not set in stone. But the

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Speaker 1: Bible is for the most part set in stone.

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Speaker 2: True.

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Speaker 1: There's some variation between Catholics and Protestants. Catholics count seventy

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Speaker 1: three books in their Bible, Protestants sixty six. Now, both

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Speaker 1: Catholics and Protestants have the same New Testament twenty seven

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Speaker 1: books in the Old Testament. However, Catholics include seven books

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Speaker 1: among them, books like Tobit, Judith, and wisdom. These books

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Speaker 1: make up the so called apocrypha. Catholics also called them

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Speaker 1: the duterocanonical books that were dutero, meaning second. And the

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Speaker 1: point is not just that these are lesser works, but

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Speaker 1: merely that they were added after the original Hebrew canon.

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Speaker 1: Ever since the higher criticism of the nineteenth century, which

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Speaker 1: signaled the rise of religious skepticism and atheism, critics have

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Speaker 1: raised three separate questions about the Bible. First, does the

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Speaker 1: Bible describe real people and true events? This is the

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Speaker 1: issue of historicity. Second, or the manuscripts copied accurately? And

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Speaker 1: do we have a reliable text that preserves the integrity

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Speaker 1: of the original? This is the issue of transmission. Third?

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Speaker 1: Who picked the winners and losers in the Biblical canon?

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Speaker 1: This is the issue of selection. Now I've just finished

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Speaker 1: a new book which addresses the first and to some degree,

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Speaker 1: the second issue. The book is called The Stones cry

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Speaker 1: Out subtitle Biblical Archaeology, Prophecy and the Last Days. It

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Speaker 1: will be published in the fall, but you can order now.

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Speaker 1: You can pre order a copy from Amazon. I'm very

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Speaker 1: excited about this book. I'm also doing a series of

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Speaker 1: videos based on it for Prager. You these videos will

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Speaker 1: reveal the greatest discoveries of Biblical archaeology and their implications

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Speaker 1: for the historicity of the Bible, the presence of the

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Speaker 1: Jews in their ancient homeland, and the core foundations of

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Speaker 1: Western civilization. I was tempted to address the second issue today,

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Speaker 1: the issue of the reliability of the transmission of the

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Speaker 1: Biblical text. When I drafted this monologue. I got into it,

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Speaker 1: but then I realized I'm running out of time without

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Speaker 1: even getting into the third issue. So I'm saving this

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Speaker 1: second issue for another day another monologue, and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to focus here on the third one, the issue of

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Speaker 1: selection and how some books but not others, made their

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Speaker 1: way into the Bible. Many people get their ideas about

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Speaker 1: how the Bible got put together from popular works like

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Speaker 1: The da Vinci Code, a best selling book that also

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Speaker 1: became a movie. The premise of the da Vinci Code

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Speaker 1: is that there were multiple books circulating in Christian communities

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Speaker 1: from the time of Christ until the fourth century. Then,

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Speaker 1: when the Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and declared Christianity

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Speaker 1: to be the religion of the Roman Empire, he created,

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Speaker 1: in effect a powerful church bureaucracy allied with the Imperial state.

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Speaker 1: It is that bureaucracy that organized the Council of Nicea

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Speaker 1: in three twenty five ID, and it is there that

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Speaker 1: an official Bible was created. Now, this view, as well see,

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Speaker 1: is completely wrong headed. It locates the formation of the

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Speaker 1: Bible at Nicea. And hey, there was indeed a Council

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Speaker 1: of Nicia, but the topic of what books should be

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Speaker 1: in the Bible never even came up. Nicia was about

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Speaker 1: something else, entirely, the clarification of Jesus as both fully

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Speaker 1: divine and fully human, and also the articulation of the

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Speaker 1: doctrine of the Trinity. Now, a more sophisticated version of

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Speaker 1: the critique of the Bible comes from New Testament scholar

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Speaker 1: bart Erman. I know Ermin we've debated a few times

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Speaker 1: on the issue of God and suffering. Erman argues that

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Speaker 1: the institutional Church made the decision of which books to

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Speaker 1: allow into the Bible. Ermine says it did so in

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Speaker 1: the late fourth century through the actions of church councils

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Speaker 1: at Hippo and Carthage, as well as powerful bishops like

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Speaker 1: Athanasius of Alexandria, who enumerated the New Testament Canon of

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Speaker 1: twenty seven books in his famous Festal Letter of three

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Speaker 1: seven AD. Basically, the church included the books that affirmed

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Speaker 1: what it considered to be orthodoxy and excluded those that

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Speaker 1: the Church considered to be heresy. The Canon, according to Ermin,

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Speaker 1: was the product not so much of divine inspiration as

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Speaker 1: of institutional power. Now Erman's claims that goed by other skeptics,

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Speaker 1: raise an interesting issue the Catholics and Protestants debate to

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Speaker 1: this day. Did the Catholic Church choose the Bible and

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Speaker 1: in doing so, confer authority on the twenty seven books

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Speaker 1: of the New Testament, or rather, did the Catholic Church

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Speaker 1: merely recognize and bring together books that derive their authority

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Speaker 1: as a result of divine inspiration from the time they

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Speaker 1: were composed? In other words, did the Church create the

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Speaker 1: Bible or merely adopt, assemble, and promulgate it. Now the Jews,

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Speaker 1: of course, had already assembled the books of the Old Testament,

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Speaker 1: the Hebrew Scriptures by Jesus' time. The Hebrew Scriptures are

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Speaker 1: divided into three parts, the Torah, the first five books,

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Speaker 1: the prophets both and minor prophets, and the so called writings,

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Speaker 1: which include the Psalms and the Proverbs and so on. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: the Torah was written first and adopted as a divinely

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Speaker 1: inspired set of books. The Torah itself says the prophets

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Speaker 1: will come later bearing the word of God, and over

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Speaker 1: time the Jews adopted prophetic books such as Isaiah, Jeremiah,

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Speaker 1: and Daniel. Now the other books were adopted later, so

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Speaker 1: the Old Testament canon was largely in place in the

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Speaker 1: early centuries before Christ. The Book of Enoch was never

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Speaker 1: part of the Jewish canon, composed between the third and

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Speaker 1: first centuries BC. The book is pseudo epigraphical, which means

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Speaker 1: it was written by someone else, not Enoch. According to

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Speaker 1: the Book of Genesis, Enoch lived just a few generations

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Speaker 1: from Adam and only a few generations before Noah. Enoch

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Speaker 1: is a character in the Book of Enoch, but he

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Speaker 1: didn't write it. That's one reason Enoch didn't make the cut.

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Speaker 1: Another is that Enoch is an apocalyptical work that offers

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Speaker 1: a detailed commentary on Genus. It takes the reference to

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Speaker 1: giants and fallen angels and gives us an elaborate account

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Speaker 1: of fallen angels mating with human women to produce bloodthirsty

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Speaker 1: and sexually rapacious giants. Now Jews read Enoch, and fragments

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Speaker 1: of Enoch were found among the Dead Sea scrolls, but

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Speaker 1: Enoch was viewed not as scripture, but as a late

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Speaker 1: and interesting commentary on scripture. The books of the Apocryphur

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Speaker 1: were also not part of the Hebrew canon because Jewish

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Speaker 1: rabbis and scholars didn't consider them on the same level

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Speaker 1: as the Torah, the prophets, and the writings. But they

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Speaker 1: were not viewed as heterodox or heretical. They were read

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Speaker 1: and discussed, and they became a sort of adjunct to

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Speaker 1: the Old Testament canon. Interestingly, when scholars in Alexandria translated

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Speaker 1: the Old Testament from Hebrew into Greek, this is the

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Speaker 1: so called Septagint, they included the Apocryphur, and later in

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Speaker 1: the fourth century, so did the Catholic Church. The Protestant Reformers,

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Speaker 1: starting with Luther, didn't like the apocrypher because of references

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Speaker 1: to prayers for the dead and how alms giving all

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Speaker 1: works of charity leads to salvation. They knew these books

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Speaker 1: were not part of the Hebrew canon, and so they

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Speaker 1: left them out of the Protestant Bible. Now let's talk

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Speaker 1: about the New Testament. The New Testament was written in

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Speaker 1: the second half of the first century AD, so between

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Speaker 1: fifty eight and ninety eighty. Remarkable all of it. The

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Speaker 1: Four Gospels, the Letters of Paul, Book of Acts, Book

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Speaker 1: of Revelation were all circulating among early Christians. By the

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Speaker 1: end of the first century. They were viewed as important,

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Speaker 1: as central and even inspired from the outset. In the

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Speaker 1: late second century, around one hundred and eighty eighty, Bishop

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Speaker 1: Irenaeus of Lyon quoted or alluded to twenty two of

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Speaker 1: the twenty seven books that now make up the New Testament.

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Speaker 1: He defended as authoritative the Four Gospels, most of Paul's Letters,

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Speaker 1: the Book of Acts, and the Book of Revelation. Other

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Speaker 1: second century Christian writings also revere these books. Writing a

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Speaker 1: bit later, in the middle of the third century, the

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Speaker 1: Christian writer Origin referred to quote it from and accepted

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Speaker 1: all twenty seven books that are now in the New Testament.

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Speaker 1: He did so without championing or defending them. Rather, he

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Speaker 1: seems to take it for granted that these are the

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Speaker 1: books that Christians are reading and sharing with each other.

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Speaker 1: It was in the fourth century that the New Testament

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Speaker 1: canon was more formally assembled. Between the second and the

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Speaker 1: fourth centuries, there was a proliferation of texts, some composed

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Speaker 1: long after Christ's death, that purported to be divinely inspired

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Speaker 1: and therefore scripture. The Church took on the task of

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Speaker 1: separating orthodoxy and heresy, the wheat from the chaff. One

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Speaker 1: heretical figure was Marcion, who believed that Yahweh, the God

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Speaker 1: of the Old Testament, was an angry, vengeful figure unworthy

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Speaker 1: of worship. Marcion didn't believe the Hebrew scriptures belonged in

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Speaker 1: the Bible. Marcion seems to have been well the first

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Speaker 1: groyper I wonder if he's a remote ancestor of Tucker Carlson.

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Speaker 1: Marcion put together his own canon, excluding most of the Gospels,

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Speaker 1: which he considered too Jewish, and heavily editing the Gospel

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Speaker 1: of Luke to create you guessed it the Gospel of Marcion. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. Marcion was excommunicated in the second century

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Speaker 1: by the Church in Rome, and his works, which continue

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Speaker 1: to circulate, were routinely condemned in later centuries. Early in

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Speaker 1: the fourth century, Eusebius of Cesarea wrote his famous Ecclesiastical History,

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Speaker 1: which gives a close up account of discussions of the

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Speaker 1: biblical canon. Eusebius list books that fall into three categories.

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Speaker 1: Number one books of the Christians of the time fully accepted,

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Speaker 1: to books that they debated, and three books that they rejected.

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Speaker 1: In other words, the books fell into the camps of yes, no,

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Speaker 1: and maybe eventually, by the end of the fourth century,

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Speaker 1: a biblical canon solidified. So bart Ermin is wrong. The

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Speaker 1: canon was affirmed in the fourth century, but it was

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Speaker 1: not created then, and even in the fourth century, the

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Speaker 1: Church didn't formally adopt the canon. In fact, one is

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Speaker 1: hard pressed to find single event or council where this occurs.

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Speaker 1: And as the Church accepted, ratified, and promulgated the canon.

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Speaker 1: This acceptance seems to have relied on four criteria. First,

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Speaker 1: the apostolic connection how close were the books to the

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Speaker 1: apostles themselves or those who were part of the original

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Speaker 1: group of Christ's disciples and followers. Second, which books were

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Speaker 1: widely read and revered by the early church? Third, did

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Speaker 1: the book show consistency of doctrine, which is to say,

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Speaker 1: did the books in question agree doctrinally with the books

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Speaker 1: that were already accepted as authoritative? And finally, did the

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Speaker 1: books contain moral teachings that were seen as reflecting the

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Speaker 1: work of the Holy Spirit and edifying Christian life and practice.

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Speaker 1: It's fun to read the non canonical writings today because

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Speaker 1: they're pretty far out, but when you read them, you

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Speaker 1: can also see why they didn't make it into the canon.

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Speaker 1: Consider the Gospel of Thomas. It was written late in

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Speaker 1: the second century BC, so one hundred and fifty years

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Speaker 1: after Christ's death and one hundred years after the other Gospels.

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Speaker 1: It was obviously pseudo epigraphical, which is to say it

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Speaker 1: was not written by the apostle Thomas. Someone else wrote

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Speaker 1: it and put Thomas's name on it to make it

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Speaker 1: seem more authoritative. The Book of Thomas also says that women,

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Speaker 1: in order to be saved, need to make themselves male.

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Speaker 1: This part, of course, I agree with wink wink, but

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Speaker 1: I can see how it's a bit salty to include

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Speaker 1: in the New Testament. This line, along with the rest

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Speaker 1: of the Gospel of Thomas, ended up on the cutting

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Speaker 1: room floor. The Gospel of Peter, another second century composition,

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Speaker 1: is mainly fascinating for the remarkable account that it gives

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Speaker 1: of Jesus walking out of the tomb Jesus evidently is

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Speaker 1: so tall that his head touches the clouds, and Jesus

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Speaker 1: is followed by the cross. The cross comes out of

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Speaker 1: the tomb. Well, who knew the cross was even in

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Speaker 1: the tomb? And the cross doesn't just come out and

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Speaker 1: follow Jesus. The cross also talks. Yep, this is a

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Speaker 1: bit too crazy. Even the early Christians, who were accustomed

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Speaker 1: to supernatural and miraculous accounts, didn't go for it. And

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Speaker 1: of course Peter didn't write it. We have here another

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Speaker 1: case of someone masquerading as Peter to give a newly

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Speaker 1: composed work in ancient pedigree and authority. The Church did

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Speaker 1: not fall for that. I find the story of how

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Speaker 1: we got the canon the books that made it into

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Speaker 1: the Bible both fascinating and inspiring. It replicates the process

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Speaker 1: with which the Bible was composed. God provided the inspiration

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Speaker 1: and humans wrote it down. So too, when it came

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Speaker 1: to putting the Bible together, God provided the inspired texts,

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Speaker 1: and humans, over the period of a couple of centuries,

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Speaker 1: recognized which ones they were. And that's the way I

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Speaker 1: see it. Here's the thing about crypto. It's here to stay.

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Speaker 1: That argument is over, But think about it if this

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Speaker 1: is a market that never sleeps, it's moving at midnight,

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Speaker 1: it's two am, three am, and while you're asleep, who's watching.

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Speaker 1: Because here's what nobody tells you. Most crypto platforms give

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Speaker 1: you a login, wish you luck and call it a day.

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Speaker 1: That's not investing. That's gambling with your retirement and hoping

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Speaker 1: for the best. That's why I've partnered with block trust Ira.

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Speaker 1: print dollars, but they cannot plint crypto. That's deneshcrypto dot com. Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm now on substack. It's kind of full circle for me.

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Speaker 1: I started out as a journalist, writing articles for National Review,

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Speaker 1: the American Spectator, the Washington Post, lots of places. After

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Speaker 1: my stint in the Reagan White House, I pivoted to

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Speaker 1: writing books, and that was way back in nineteen ninety one.

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Speaker 1: So I've been mainly known as an author and of

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Speaker 1: course later as a filmmaker. But my first job journalist,

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Speaker 1: and now I'm getting back to that. On substack you'll

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Speaker 1: get original articles on commentary, groundbreaking investigations, exclusive access to

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Speaker 1: film clips and show clips, and guess what, it's free.

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Speaker 1: So check it out. Go to Dinesh Desusa dot substack

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Speaker 1: dot com. Guys, I'm delighted to welcome my friend Dave Rubin.

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Speaker 1: He is an author, he is a podcaster. He is

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Speaker 1: also going to be appearing in a show at the

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Speaker 1: Fillmore in Miami Beach June eleventh, so shortly grab your tickets.

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Speaker 1: It's called Florida Man, It's Ronda Santis, It's Dave Rubin.

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Speaker 1: It also features Adam Carolla, Ben Shapiro, Jillianmichaels. The website

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Speaker 1: is Dave Rubin dot com slash events Dave. Welcome, Thank

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Speaker 1: you for thank you for joining me. You know, when

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Speaker 1: we talked about doing this, my mind flashed back to

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Speaker 1: when we first met. Now, I wish I could peg

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Speaker 1: the year, but I do remember. Sure, do you remember

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Speaker 1: what year it was?

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Speaker 3: I know at that time I was in, believe it

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Speaker 3: or not, Roseanne Barr's studio. We didn't publicize that it

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Speaker 3: was Roseanne Barr's studio, but it was right before I

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Speaker 3: moved into my home studio. So we did that in gosh,

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Speaker 3: that's around twenty nineteen. It's probably fall or late summer.

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Speaker 3: It was probably late summer of twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 1: And as I remember, we had talked about how you

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Speaker 1: had fairly recently made a kind of exit from Young Turks.

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Speaker 1: Some people don't know you used to be on Young Turks. Now,

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Speaker 1: obviously chin Goigor was part of Young Turks. Was Anna

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Speaker 1: Kasparian also part of Young Turks. You probably know these

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Speaker 1: characters extremely well.

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Speaker 3: She was, she was a dear friend of mine. She

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Speaker 3: was invited to my wedding. I would say they were

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Speaker 3: very different at the time. I was very different at

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Speaker 3: the time. The culture wars were very different at the time.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: Subsequently, obviously we've gone in our separate directions. I'd like

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Speaker 3: to believe that I've joined the sainter side. I'm pretty

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Speaker 3: sure that I have.

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Speaker 1: So let's dive into that.

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Speaker 2: It takes much to be honest.

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Speaker 1: Well, this interests me a lot because as thinking about

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Speaker 1: the process of conversion, how people move from one point

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Speaker 1: of view to another, and it seems to me that

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Speaker 1: generally this is quite rare. And I say it's quite

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Speaker 1: rare because most of us operate within sort of broad

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Speaker 1: philosophical and political frameworks, right, And this applies to whether

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Speaker 1: or not you're a conservative or liberal, but it also

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Speaker 1: applies to whether or not you're a Christian or whether

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Speaker 1: you're an atheist. You have a framework and all issues

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Speaker 1: and even contradictions are resolved by and large inside of

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Speaker 1: the framework. So, for example, if you're a Christian, you're

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Speaker 1: going to say something like, you know, I've done really

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Speaker 1: well in life, thanks me to God. But on the

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Speaker 1: other hand, if you start doing badly, you don't say

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Speaker 1: I'm going to blame God. Say, oh no, I want

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Speaker 1: to I'm going through a trial and tribulation and I

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Speaker 1: want to thank God again for giving me the discipline.

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Speaker 1: So in other words, God comes out ahead either way.

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Speaker 1: The framework is what dictates how you think about it.

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Speaker 1: So it's not common for someone to sort of abandon

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Speaker 1: a framework, so to speak, and move to a different framework.

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Speaker 1: And now what I want to ask you is, is

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Speaker 1: that what happened to you? Were you actually in a

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Speaker 1: very different place and you shifted. Talk about how you

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Speaker 1: used to think and how you think now, and what

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Speaker 1: was the fault from that moved you from one to

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Speaker 1: the other.

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Speaker 2: Sure, well, let me start by saying this.

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Speaker 3: You know, when we met and we only spent probably

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Speaker 3: thirty seconds saying hello before we taped that episode at

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Speaker 3: Roseanne Studio. You know that was I at that point

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Speaker 3: was sort of leaving the left officially, so I didn't

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Speaker 3: really consider myself a progressive anymore. But what was interesting

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Speaker 3: about meeting you and then subsequently interviewing you, and now

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Speaker 3: we've done you know, dozens of shows together, in live

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Speaker 3: events together, and things of that nature. Is that it

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Speaker 3: was just a continuation of the road that I had

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Speaker 3: been on, meaning I was in it with the lefties,

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Speaker 3: and I will address some of the issues that I

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Speaker 3: believed in that I've changed on.

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Speaker 2: But then when I started, you know.

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Speaker 3: Waking up, let's say, all it took was that I

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Speaker 3: started having conversations with people that I disagreed with. So

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Speaker 3: I had conversations, you know, now, I'm going back about

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Speaker 3: ten years, let's say around twenty sixteen seventeen. I started

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Speaker 3: talking to Ben Shapiro. I started talking to Larry Elder,

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Speaker 3: Dennis Prager, Thomas Sole, Jordan Peterson, of course you several others,

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Speaker 3: Glenn Beck. There were a bunch of people that I

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Speaker 3: thought were my ideological opponents that I was debating issues with.

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Speaker 3: I debated death penalty, I debated gay marriage, a series

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Speaker 3: of taxation, a whole bunch of things. But every time

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Speaker 3: those conversations ended, I always felt that people who were

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Speaker 3: conservative or you know, in some cases, let's say, more libertarian.

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Speaker 3: Larry Elder, for example, usually considers himself a libertarian more

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Speaker 3: than conservative. But people that were right leaning, always, without exception,

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Speaker 3: we're kind, we're decent, we're willing to listen, we're willing

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Speaker 3: to agree to disagree, and always wanted to continue the conversation.

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Speaker 3: And that was in stark difference from what I was

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Speaker 3: getting on the left. I had some frustrations with the left.

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Speaker 3: You know, there were a couple things that woke me up.

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Speaker 3: But one of the very simple ones was that I

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Speaker 3: started realizing, it makes no sense. It can't possibly be

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Speaker 3: true that everyone's a racist and we're just so righteous

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Speaker 3: that the math didn't make sense. It made no sense

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Speaker 3: to me. These can't be complete arguments. How could it

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Speaker 3: possibly be that we're just so right, we're so evolved,

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Speaker 3: it's so obvious, and yes, everyone who opposes us as

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Speaker 3: a racist or a bigot. You know, that was sort

426
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 3: of a bumper sticker way of understanding what I was

427
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 3: starting to come across. Then there were a few things

428
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 3: that were very very specific that happened to me. I

429
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 3: famously interviewed Larry Elder and we started getting into it

430
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 3: about systemic racism, and he turned a lot of the

431
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 3: questions on me.

432
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 2: I was not prepared to get give him answers back.

433
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 3: And interestingly, that video it got clipped, you know, the

434
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 3: way things happen online, it starts getting clipped every which way,

435
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 3: and a lot of the titles were something to the

436
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 3: effect of, you know, black conservative destroys white lib tart

437
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 3: and when you're that white libtard, it's not so fun.

438
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 3: But what I realized within, you know, twenty four hours

439
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 3: of that video being seen millions and millions of time times,

440
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 3: is that people started saying, you know, it seemed like

441
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 3: Dave was listening, and it seemed like he might continue

442
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 3: these conversations. And not only did I continue those conversations,

443
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 3: but I ended up campaigning with Larry Elder when he

444
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 3: ran in the recall against Gavin Newsom, and we've become

445
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 3: you know, great, great friends over the last ten years,

446
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 3: and so many of these people Jordan Peterson, who I

447
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 3: toured with, Glenn Beckoy ended up working with for years.

448
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 3: You I mean, I had no idea what to make

449
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 3: of you other than this is Danesh Desuza. You know,

450
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 3: this is this guy on the right, Dnesh de Susan,

451
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 3: and I'm sitting down with him, and now we've become friends.

452
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,719
Speaker 3: So you know, it was I think the magic in

453
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 3: some sense of my career is that it was just

454
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 3: that I did it on air, the conversion process that

455
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 3: you're talking about. People got to see me go through

456
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 3: it live. And then I think the thing that put

457
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 3: the stamp on it was when I did that video

458
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 3: for Praguer, you called Why I Left the Left, and

459
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 3: if you watch the video again, and I think it

460
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 3: might be their most most viewed video of all time.

461
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 2: It's certainly in the top three or four.

462
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,360
Speaker 3: I never actually said in the video that I had

463
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 3: left the Left, And when I woke up the morning

464
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 3: that it was published. You've done some of those videos,

465
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 3: so you know, you record the little five minute piece,

466
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 3: but then they have to put it through post production

467
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 3: and it takes a few months to get the video out.

468
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 3: So I did it a few months prior and then

469
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 3: I forgot about it. And then one morning I woke up.

470
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 3: I'll never forget. I look at my phone on my

471
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 3: nightstand and it says I have a push notification from

472
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 3: YouTube and it says, Dave Rubin Praguer you why I

473
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 3: Left the Left. And I freaked out for a second

474
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 3: because I thought, no, I haven't left left. I'm critiquing

475
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 3: the left as a lefty sort of what Bill Maher

476
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 3: is doing Now let's say, and I really didn't want

477
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 3: to be purged from the left, but what I realized

478
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 3: was in some sense that was just that was just

479
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 3: rules that needn't be played by. Let's say, it doesn't

480
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 3: matter whether whether I have some lefty leanings, I don't

481
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 3: really anymore or not. What I've realized is that I'm

482
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 3: on the side of liberty. I want people to live

483
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 3: free lives. I want there to be limited and small government.

484
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 3: I want there to be individual rights. I want you

485
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 3: to pursue your happiness. And I want to create I

486
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 3: want to create the conditions for us all to flourish.

487
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 3: Those are all things that are part of the broad

488
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 3: right these days. And I'm very proud that. You know,

489
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 3: people call me the gateway drug. I'm the gateway drug

490
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 3: to getting you listened to Jordan Peterson or Ben Shapiro

491
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 3: or denesh And I love that.

492
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 2: I love that. So that's what brings us together.

493
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: So this idea of individual liberty very central to the

494
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 1: American founding. Of course, it is encapsulated in the Bill

495
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: of Rights. It's reflected in what we could call a

496
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: classical liberalism that was once I think the shared patrimony

497
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 1: of the Republicans and the Democrats. True Republicans and Democrats

498
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: disagreed about the application in some cases. But you know,

499
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: I remember when I first came to the United States

500
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 1: in the late seventies and kind of became politically active

501
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: in the early eighties, you would see the left championing liberty.

502
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: They were the ones who were talking about free speech.

503
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: The left was you could almost say that the right

504
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: was for economic liberty for the most part, and the

505
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: left was more for personal and civil liberty. But part

506
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: of I think what we've witnessed over the last few

507
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: decades is that the left has seems to have abandoned

508
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: liberty as a cause altogether. Do you agree with that

509
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: and when do you think that shift occurred?

510
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you're completely right in your prescription there, because

511
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 3: if you think about it, so it's obvious for some

512
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 3: people to understand what economic liberty would be. You'd want

513
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 3: limited government and lower taxes, and you allow for competition

514
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 3: and capitalism. So that makes sense to people from a

515
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 3: Republican perspective. Okay, generally, that's what Republicans do. From a

516
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 3: social perspective, what you're talking about is that the left

517
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 3: was trying to offer more liberty, let's say, with things

518
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 3: like same sex marriage or abortion, and you would think, okay,

519
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 3: well they're each arguing for liberty in a certain sense.

520
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,360
Speaker 3: So how did this get so confused?

521
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: Now?

522
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 3: Well, my first book, Don't Burn. This book was all

523
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 3: about classical liberalism, and classical liberalism which really is what

524
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 3: the founders fundamentally believed in and is what the Constitution

525
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 3: is based on. Is about individual rights. That rights are

526
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 3: to be for you as the individual, as I ran

527
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 3: called the smallest minority. There are no group rights. There's

528
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 3: no such thing as gay rights, and there's no such

529
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 3: thing as Black rights or Indian rights or Jewish rights.

530
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 3: There are individual rights and that is the basic fundamental

531
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 3: building block of a society, and then you can build

532
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 3: upwards from that. The left, sadly, I would say, abandoned it.

533
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 3: It's I mean, it's been a slow abandoning. And you know,

534
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 3: we can talk about the march through the institutions, how

535
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 3: they confused people about so many of these issues. And

536
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 3: I think there's a very strong argument to make that

537
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 3: there's a fundamental flaw in liberalism, which is that liberalism

538
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 3: puts tolerance at such the peak of the hierarchy of

539
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: importance that you can't be you know, it's Carl Popper's

540
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 3: paradox of intolerance. You can't be tolerant of intolerance. And

541
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 3: they basically were like, we're so tolerant any idea can

542
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 3: come in. And that's why now you have the Islamists

543
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 3: are married to the Queers for Palestine, even though we

544
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 3: know how that is going to end.

545
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 2: So I think the basic.

546
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 3: Answer to your question, if we just look at it

547
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: from the last ten years, is that the last march

548
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 3: for equality, if you want to talk about civil secular law,

549
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 3: was the march towards marriage equality.

550
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 2: Now, you, dnesh are.

551
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 3: Entitled to whatever your religious opinion might be on marriage,

552
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 3: and by the way, I can fully respect someone's religious opinion,

553
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 3: I actually don't fully know your opinion, and I'm happy

554
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 3: to discuss it if you want. But sort of the

555
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 3: last bastion where there was an inequality based on individual

556
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 3: rights in the system was marriage equality.

557
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 2: Now, I would not force a church or a.

558
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 3: Mosque or a temple or anything to perform a gay marriage,

559
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 3: but from a civil perspective, to adults, whether they're straight

560
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 3: or gay, have every right that anyone else has. Now,

561
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 3: the issue is that once gay marriage got passed, the

562
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 3: activist class didn't know what to do. They've been running

563
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 3: on something that I think was a just cause, and

564
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 3: then they had to move. So that's why when gay

565
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 3: marriage got passed the next day, it seemed like the

566
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 3: trans thing burst forth, and they just moved on.

567
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 2: A whole series of things.

568
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 3: That's that's ironically, I mean, the trans thing is radically

569
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 3: anti gay actually, because they're trying to trans a bunch

570
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 3: of you know, effeminate boys or girls that maybe are

571
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 3: what we used to call tomboys, you know, So I

572
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,239
Speaker 3: think that that and then you add, you know, you

573
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 3: had the social media elements of that, you add the

574
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 3: toxicity of our general political state of being, and the

575
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 3: fact that the Democrats have just handed the keys. They're

576
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 3: letting the inmates run the asylum. There are no adults.

577
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 3: Who's the adult. Why isn't Bill Clinton the adult in

578
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 3: the room with these people or Barack Obama? I mean,

579
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,479
Speaker 3: I would agree with you that Barack Obama has been

580
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 3: a main driver of this stuff, but they have nobody

581
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 3: to be the elder statesman anymore, and they've handed it

582
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 3: to their radicals, and that really is the problem. We

583
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 3: got to a place in America where there is nobody.

584
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 3: If you can figure out who it is, I'll gladly

585
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 3: correct myself on air. But nobody in America is discriminated

586
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 3: against based on an immutable characteristic. And once we got there,

587
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 3: we needed to sit with it for a little bit,

588
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 3: and we never sat with it because the activist class

589
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 3: kept growing, and that I think explained so much of

590
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 3: the last ten years of craziness.

591
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: You know, one thing Dave I noticed. I think I

592
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: noticed this first in about the mid nineteen nineties, but

593
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: it's something that metastasized to the ludicrous point that we

594
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: see it now, and that is I noticed that, in general,

595
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: in modern liberalism, not classical liberalism, but modern liberalism, in leftism,

596
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: in progressivism, there appears to be no end point in

597
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: any area. And I say this because one good question

598
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: you could post, any liberal is all right in what society?

599
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: Would you be a conservative? In other words, to put

600
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: it differently, the tax rate. Let's say the top tax

601
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: rate is thirty eight percent. Okay, you think it should

602
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: go up to forty or forty two or forty five.

603
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: Let's say you think it should go up to fifty. Now,

604
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: would you at that point stop and go all right,

605
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: we now have a just rate. Everyone is paying their

606
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: fair share. We're not pushing for higher rates. They will

607
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: never tell you that, no, we're done, we're happy, we're content.

608
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: And the same applies to just about any other issue.

609
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:12,439
Speaker 1: If you were to say to them, all right, well,

610
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: you know we now have individual equality for blacks, we

611
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: have equal pay for equal work for feminists and women,

612
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: we have gay marriage. Well, is this the time where

613
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: you've basically achieved your goal and you're now going to

614
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: put a stop to it? And they go, oh no,

615
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: this just clears the way for the next battle. And

616
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: so you where do you think this kind of restlessness

617
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: comes from? In progressivism, in which there seems to be

618
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: no endpoint at all?

619
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 3: Right, So I think there's probably a theological reason for that,

620
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 3: But first, from a political perspective, I mean, the simplest

621
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 3: way to put what you just said is there's no

622
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 3: there there. They are on the goal of progressing, So

623
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 3: you never progress if the word is progressed. Well, okay, progress,

624
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 3: we're going to keep going. We're going to keep going

625
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,919
Speaker 3: and going. It doesn't matter if you're going and there's

626
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 3: a chasm and you're about to fall in it, you're

627
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 3: just going to keep going.

628
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 2: So that's what you just illustrated.

629
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 3: There, there's no number when they say this is what

630
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 3: minimum You know, Bernie will say we should have eight

631
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 3: ten dollar minimum wage, and then Rashida Tale a week later,

632
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 3: we'll say we should have twenty five. And it's like, well,

633
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 3: in that he made up a number, not based on economics,

634
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 3: she can make up a bigger number, and then somehow

635
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 3: she feels more moral and lofty, and then why not

636
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 3: thirty five or fifty? Your point on the taxation is

637
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 3: the exact same thing. They always say the top one

638
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 3: percent doesn't pay their fair share. We know the top

639
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 3: one percent it pays between forty and forty seven percent. Okay,

640
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 3: so would it be fifty two percent or ninety percent?

641
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 3: There is no there.

642
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 2: If you said to.

643
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 3: Mom, DAMMI, okay, how much money do you actually need

644
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 3: to usher in all of these things that you want

645
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 3: to do, there is no number. It is a constant

646
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 3: quest for progression, But what it really is is a

647
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: constant quest for revolution. You know, this is my friend

648
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 3: James Lindsay, who I'm sure you've chatted with, always talks

649
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 3: about the issue is never the issue. The issue is

650
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 3: always the revolution, and I think that that really is

651
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:03,959
Speaker 3: right with these people.

652
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 2: Now. Your question, really, though, was so where does that

653
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 2: come from?

654
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 3: Where does that sort of where does that impulse to

655
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 3: keep going no matter what come from?

656
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,280
Speaker 2: And that I would say largely.

657
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 3: And this is something where I think maybe I've turned

658
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 3: into more of a conservative as I'm about to roll

659
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 3: into my fiftieth year this month. I think there's probably

660
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 3: religious reasons for that.

661
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 2: That if you don't believe in.

662
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 3: God, that or something, you have to believe in something outside.

663
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 2: Of politics as the answer. Right.

664
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 3: So I don't even want to do an entire religion

665
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 3: thing here, but if you don't believe in something that

666
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 3: most people would say God, that created some sort of

667
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 3: order at the beginning, then you will.

668
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: In essence try to be God.

669
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 3: And that is what their quest is, to constantly perfect

670
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 3: a world that is imperfect. They want to build perfect systems,

671
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 3: and humans are imperfect, and that's why communists kill an

672
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 3: awful lot of people on their way to creating that

673
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 3: perfect utopia, which of course always becomes a dystopia.

674
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I think one could I even understand it

675
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,919
Speaker 1: in a non theological way by looking at the way

676
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: that the Greeks looked at it. So the Greek view

677
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: was the Greeks of course had their gods, it was

678
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: a polytheistic society, but they also kind of anchored their

679
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,240
Speaker 1: view in nature, and of course nature includes human nature,

680
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: and so the Greeks would have said that human nature

681
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: has this sort of aspiration to being better, but it's

682
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: also kind of held down by you could say, basic

683
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: or primitive or natural impulses greed, lust, hatred, envy, revenge,

684
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: and those things can't really be removed from human nature.

685
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: And so the job of politics is to create an

686
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 1: environment in which essentially we allow human sort of productivity

687
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: to flourish, but there's some checks and balances on the

688
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: kind of baser elements of human nature. And I think

689
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 1: what you're saying is that the left's view is that

690
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: because human nature is seen perhaps as more of a

691
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:16,720
Speaker 1: blank slate, that that institutions can continue to make human

692
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: nature better. And I think even on the individual level.

693
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: Isn't it true that you, like, I've been looking at

694
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 1: some of the some of the kind of celebrations of pride,

695
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: and Kamala Harris had one. She just put one out

696
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: basically saying something like it gives everybody a chance to

697
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: be their authentic self. So the whole idea here appears

698
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,439
Speaker 1: to be that yourself is a sort of creation. You're

699
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: the author of your own self and the way that

700
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: you I might write an article or a book. There's

701
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: nothing kind of given about the self that we have

702
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 1: to sort of accept or deal with or let alone

703
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: God forbid, like exercise some control or restrained over.

704
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 3: So yes, and again I think that that's connected to

705
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 3: a sort of theological or deep philosophical confusion. But what

706
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 3: it does, putting aside the genesis of it, what it

707
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 3: does is it creates. You have to believe in something.

708
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 3: Humans have to believe in something. So I'll give you

709
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 3: a good example. I just did this surrounded show where

710
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 3: you sit in a circle, and for me it was

711
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 3: like Maga Guy verse twenty far leftists. And one of

712
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 3: the things beyond just like the unbelievable amount of hate

713
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 3: and vitriol and anger they had towards me, which there

714
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 3: was plenty of, was that they all believe that if

715
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 3: you just say something it that it's real. So they all,

716
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 3: almost all of them, they kept saying, medicare for all.

717
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 3: Now it's the I kept saying, well, it's the easiest

718
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 3: thing to say medically yes, for medicare. Do I want

719
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 3: everyone to get health care? Yes, it's the easiest possible

720
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 3: thing to say. Does it mean if we give medicare

721
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 3: at all, that the system will work, that people will

722
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 3: get healthier, that will have enough doctors, that it will

723
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 3: be functional in any way, that it will economically make sense,

724
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 3: or anything else. No, But they don't want to think

725
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 3: about it much further than that. So they want to

726
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 3: do what they think is morally sort of good by

727
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 3: their own moral standards. So it's Medicare for all or

728
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 3: another one that I thought was quite interesting. They were

729
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 3: all very enthusiastic about the Obama Iran agreement. They love

730
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 3: that Obama had this Iran agreement and it was signed

731
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 3: and there were inspectors.

732
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 2: And I kept saying them, well, I accept that.

733
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 3: There was an agreement, but do you believe that the

734
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 3: Iranians were keeping their word? Do you believe that the

735
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 3: United Nations or the proper authorities were going in and

736
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 3: vetting it? And they don't want to think about any

737
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 3: of those things. They liked the idea that an agreement

738
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 3: was signed, Medicare for all. They like these sort of

739
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 3: bumper sticker things that just kind of make you feel

740
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 3: good and then you don't really have to think about it.

741
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 3: So what I think I've learned over the years of

742
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 3: doing this is that I consider myself a realist first.

743
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 2: So I know it's easy to say certain things.

744
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 3: Right, would I like everyone in the United States of

745
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 3: America to have access to great healthcare? Well, of course

746
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,760
Speaker 3: the answer is yes. But just saying the government should

747
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 3: give it is the dimmest argument that you could possibly make.

748
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 3: And of course the irony on that is that what

749
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 3: are the Democrats really railing against right now? It's AI, AI,

750
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 3: which is going to create all sorts of new ways

751
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 3: that we will through nanobots and all incredible technology where

752
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 3: we're going to quite literally have doctors that will be

753
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 3: able to operate you. I mean we already have some

754
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 3: of this. Doctors can operate you, operate on you from

755
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 3: other countries right now because of robots and all of

756
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 3: the things that we are going to learn.

757
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,240
Speaker 2: Well, why are you guys against AI?

758
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 3: They're against AI because they think AI is anti human

759
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 3: now and everything else. But everything they do is very thin,

760
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 3: and then all you have to do is peel beneath it,

761
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 3: and you usually see a very very authoritarian impulse.

762
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: Let's switch gears a little bit and talk about some

763
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: characters that you and I, over the years have gotten

764
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 1: to know pretty well. And this is continuing my exploration

765
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 1: of the theme of conversion, because I'm trying to make

766
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 1: sense of You've got these disparate characters. You've got Tucker Carlson,

767
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: You've got you've got Megan Kelly, you've got Candice Owens.

768
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 1: I don't think it's fair to see them all quite

769
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: in the same light. They all seem to have quite

770
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: different styles, quite different goals, and yet in some ways

771
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: they've all moved onto the same side of the track,

772
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: and the common element quite obviously appears to be the

773
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 1: Jews and Israel. In other words, if I were to

774
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: identify a pivot point that is causing the wider pivot,

775
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: I mean Tucker now will talk about a lot of

776
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: different issues. He's become sort of uncommonly and unnaturally friendly

777
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 1: toward it, not just Islam, but radical Islam. But the

778
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 1: start of it, he didn't start there. He started sort

779
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,720
Speaker 1: of with net and Yahoo, and then he went to Israel,

780
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: and then it was the Jews and from that starting point,

781
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: it looks like everything else moved. Do you agree with

782
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 1: that sort of trajectory on the part of Tucker and

783
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 1: you and I have, you know, casually and sometimes off camera,

784
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 1: tried to make sense of what's going on, in part

785
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: because we know these dudes and fairly well, and we

786
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: are there's a little part of us that is still

787
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: scratching our heads.

788
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

789
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 3: I mean, look, the reason I excelled the way I

790
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 3: did when you brought it up is because, in some sense,

791
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 3: it's almost futile in a way to try to analyze

792
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 3: what they are doing the simplest version for everybody, for

793
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 3: all the three that you just mentioned right there. And

794
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 3: I say this particularly when it comes to Megan and

795
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 3: Tucker Candice. I feel like maybe there's a genuine personality

796
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 3: disorder there at this point.

797
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 2: And you know, honestly, Tucker may have one as well, But.

798
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 3: It seems to me they're doing anything they can for

799
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 3: clicks more than anything else. They want clicks, They want attention,

800
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 3: and they want fame. You know, I always quote Carl

801
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 3: saying an extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So I don't

802
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 3: think it's an extraordinary claim to say that some of them,

803
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 3: particularly Tucker and or Canadas are likely getting foreign money.

804
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 3: Candace probably from Russians. She's in Russia right now meeting

805
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 3: with Alexander Dugan and others. And Tucker has definitely taken it.

806
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: You know.

807
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 3: He flies to Saudi Arabia on a private plane, shows

808
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 3: up a Qatar, says he's buying a house like He's

809
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 3: not doing that on his dime. So I don't think

810
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 3: it's an extraordinary claim. But I don't think it's just, oh,

811
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 3: they're just doing it for money. I think in the

812
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 3: case of Tucker and Megan, you know, they come from

813
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 3: cable news.

814
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 2: Cable news is a different beast there.

815
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 3: I keep calling them trans podcasters because they're not really podcasters.

816
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 2: They're in our world, but.

817
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 3: They got booted from the other world, and they were

818
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 3: making crazy money there. I think Tucker was making about

819
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 3: twenty MILLI a year over there, and then he came

820
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 3: into this world. And to make that kind of money,

821
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't make that kind of money. I

822
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 3: would certainly love to make that kind of money. I

823
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 3: do the best I can, but I think he's doing

824
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 3: anything he can to remain the center of attention, to

825
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 3: get as many clicks and drive as many followers and

826
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 3: either subscribers or however else. He's making his money selling

827
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 3: his nicotine, which is made in India. And you know

828
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 3: he's America first, but he makes his nicotine in India.

829
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 3: That's not a knock on India. I get why he

830
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 3: does it. So it's hard to say. Now the piece

831
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 3: that seems okay, So then you want to connect that

832
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 3: to the sort of Israel Jew stuff. I mean, look,

833
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 3: if you attack the group of people who don't fit

834
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 3: into the intersectional leftist calculator, because Jews are a ridiculous minority,

835
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 3: they're sort of the minority of all time who have,

836
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 3: somehow through family and ingenuity and education and through well

837
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 3: I would say also for religon just reasons, have grown

838
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 3: into a very mighty group of it's a small group

839
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 3: of people who've grown into a mighty people. Well, you're

840
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 3: going to resent them. It's the same sort of resentment

841
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 3: that the lefties have. So that's what the horseshoe theory

842
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,720
Speaker 3: of politics brings. Right, So you can see it's like Tucker,

843
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 3: who does Tucker hate the most? Well, yeah, he hates

844
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 3: the Jews and Israel, sure, but he really hates the

845
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 3: Christians who don't bout out him. So that's why he

846
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 3: really hates my Kuckaby and Ted Cruz. Then he'll bring

847
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,479
Speaker 3: on a lefty and he'll glaze them the entire time.

848
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 3: Where Candice Owans had anaksparianon from the Young Turks you

849
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 3: mentioned earlier, and they had a love fest for an hour.

850
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 3: They purportedly disagree on literally everything from abortion to everything else,

851
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 3: but what they both hate right now is the Jews

852
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 3: in Israel, and that is their driver. So I think

853
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:47,760
Speaker 3: there's economic reasons.

854
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 2: I also think there's just.

855
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 3: You know, there's audience capture, there's pressures of the internet.

856
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 3: But it's been, as we and I have talked about

857
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 3: off camera, it's been really disappointing because you know, you

858
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 3: like to hold some of these people in a certain

859
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: high regard. You think people are a certain way, and

860
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 3: then you find out they're another way. You know, Tucker

861
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 3: blurbed my first book. Megan did too. Meghan's had dinner

862
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 3: at my house many times, and my kids' favorite hats

863
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: or the Yankees hats that she got them, Like, you

864
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 3: don't want this to be, and then it is.

865
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 2: And then it's our job to call balls and strikes.

866
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 2: It's as simple as that.

867
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: I mean, if it is the case that there are

868
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 1: a lot of clicks to be had by kind of

869
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 1: peddling in this kind of stuff, it seems to me

870
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:35,439
Speaker 1: that it's it has to be a result of the

871
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 1: peculiar atmosphere of the last few years. I mean, I

872
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 1: think that when you and I met, let's go back,

873
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 1: you know, twenty eighteen or nineteen, I think if you

874
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 1: had run this stick, it wouldn't work. But what happened

875
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: is that in the Biden years and under COVID, there

876
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 1: were so many conspiracy theories that proved to be true,

877
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 1: and so many institutions that turned out to lie to us,

878
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 1: and things we didn't expect. I mean, we might have

879
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: expected lies to come out of Biden's mouth, but we

880
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: didn't expect lies to come out of let's say, the

881
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: NIH you know, or the CDC, or even the FBI,

882
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: which I think until fairly recently, well until my own case,

883
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: I sort of had a you know, I thought of

884
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: the FBI like the Untouchables, the way they're portrayed in

885
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:25,359
Speaker 1: that movie, you know, a very romanticized positive view. And

886
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:30,240
Speaker 1: so I think that in the conspiratorial post COVID atmosphere

887
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 1: to now say, guess what, guys, there is a master conspirator,

888
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: a puppeteer of all the other puppeteers who are moving

889
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 1: all the puppets that we call our society, and that's

890
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: the Jews. I mean, you can pull this off now,

891
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: but it would have made no sense that you tried

892
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: to do it earlier.

893
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 3: No, I think that's completely right, and I think it's

894
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 3: an important point. I don't think and we may never

895
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 3: realize the actual damage that COVID did. And I'm not

896
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 3: talking about the cough and I'm not diminished anyone that

897
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 3: lost a relative or anything else.

898
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 2: The damage that it did, by.

899
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 3: No, it's it's ironic because in some sense it freed

900
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 3: us in a way, right, So you could argue, all right, well,

901
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 3: then suddenly we saw all the lies of CNN, and

902
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 3: we saw the New York Times lies, and we saw

903
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 3: that the President could literally lie about the vaccine you

904
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 3: will not get nor transmit COVID. We saw that, So

905
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 3: that's kind of good. But then the damage it did

906
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:29,479
Speaker 3: by by people having to be confronted with these these

907
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 3: crazy lies and then take those lies and then try

908
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 3: to apply it to a gajillion other things.

909
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 2: The idea that that the that Israel or the Jews.

910
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 3: Are running the United States is so it's so thin

911
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 3: and first off, first off, before Israel ever existed, people

912
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 3: used to say these things about the Jews. Now they

913
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,280
Speaker 3: just say it about Israel because Israel is Jews with weapons,

914
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 3: and they really don't want their oppressed minorities to be

915
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 3: able to defend themselves. That's why there's this very specific

916
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 3: vitriolic hatred. There also part of it, you have to

917
00:49:58,000 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 3: remembering Danesh is a numbers game.

918
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,879
Speaker 2: There's billions of Muslims, there's fifteen sixteen million Jews.

919
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 3: If you were just looking at numbers of where you

920
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 3: want to get an audience, you would be pretty It

921
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 3: wouldn't take a genius to go in that direction just

922
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 3: simply by numbers.

923
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 2: If it was, if you want to just look at

924
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:14,360
Speaker 2: it in that sense.

925
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 3: But once they once so many of our sense making,

926
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,839
Speaker 3: once our sense making apparatus collapse the way that it did,

927
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 3: you know, we went from even you know, a version

928
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 3: that I like to talk about is if you think

929
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 3: about the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson versus all of

930
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 3: the late night shows, now how hyper partisan they became.

931
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 3: Everything became partisan. Stephen Colbert dancing with the vaccine versus

932
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 3: Johnny Carson just quietly and calmly and with humor, putting

933
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 3: us to bed at night. You know, everything became so

934
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 3: freaking toxic that I think that that toxicity then just

935
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 3: jumped everywhere and it just it now has metastasized into

936
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 3: something that I would say is very, very dangerous. James Lindsay,

937
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 3: he just put up a tweet that I thought was

938
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 3: quite good. You know, it was these riots that are

939
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 3: happening in Paris. As we're taping this, I know it'll

940
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 3: be up in a few days, and you know, there's

941
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,839
Speaker 3: Islamists running around. There's this video of this guy in

942
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 3: Arabic talking about hah, we're this, you know, the Sengalese

943
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 3: and the Libyans, and we're here, and we just took

944
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 3: down Paris in three hours. That's longer than it took

945
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 3: the Nazis. And it's like, you fools in the West,

946
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 3: you're pointing at the Jews while there are people literally

947
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 3: trying to upend Western civilization and you're trying to import

948
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,839
Speaker 3: them into your societies. So all of that to say,

949
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 3: there's a lot of reasons for all of this.

950
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: Guys, I've been talking to Dave Rubin. I want to

951
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: mention he is going to be in a show Florida

952
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Speaker 1: Man with Ron De Santis. It's at the Fillmore, Miami Beach,

953
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 1: June eleventh, Adam Carolla, Ben Shapiro, Jillian Michael. So it's

954
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Speaker 1: a real star cast. Go to Dave Reuben dot com

955
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Speaker 1: slash events to get tickets. Dave, great stuff. Thank you

956
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: very much for joining me. If you're sixty four or older,

957
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958
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959
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960
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961
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970
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1012
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1013
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1014
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1015
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1016
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