1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 2: This is Donna Jones and you are listening to That's 3 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: just what I needed. Hey, friend, if you've ever been 4 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 2: in a conversation where you've walked away thinking, Wow, that 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 2: was just what I needed, you know how life giving 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 2: that can be, Well, that's what this podcast is all about. 7 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 2: We're women who want to know, love, and follow God 8 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: in our real lives, but sometimes wonder just how to 9 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 2: do it. So each week we'll talk about what following 10 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: God looks like in the midst of daily demands and 11 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 2: crazy cultural chaos. Because this isn't just what we need, 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 2: it's actually exactly what we need. Hey, hey, my friend. Okay, 13 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: let me just tell you, friend, a friend, you are 14 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 2: about to love this podcast, especially if you have had 15 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: hurt or wounds or pain in your life in any form, 16 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 2: and that includes all of us. Right, You're about to 17 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 2: love my conversation with my guest today. So make sure 18 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: that wherever you are you can just listen to this 19 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 2: one all the way to the end because it is 20 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,839 Speaker 2: such a great conversation. But before I introduce my guest, 21 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 2: I want to just remind you that if you haven't 22 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 2: rated or reviewed this podcast or subscribe to this podcast, 23 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 2: just hit that subscribe button right now so you don't 24 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 2: miss a single episode. I have some amazing guests coming 25 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 2: up and some amazing conversations, and I do not want 26 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 2: you to miss a single episode. So do that today, 27 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 2: Rate review, subscribe, And this particular episode, I have a 28 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: sneaking suspicion you're going to want to share it with someone. 29 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: So find that share button and make sure that you 30 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 2: share this episode. Either text them the episode, share it 31 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: on social media, because it's one that, honestly, I think 32 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: all of us need. So with that being said, let 33 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 2: me just turn the corner and tell you a little 34 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 2: bit about today's guest. Her name is Willow Weston. She's 35 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: an author, she's a speaker, she's a podcast host, and 36 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: she's the founder of Collide, which is a ministry that 37 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 2: impacts women nationwide. Willow has decades of experience and she 38 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 2: writes Bible studies and leads conferences that empower, that heal, 39 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 2: and that transform women. She is a wife, she's a mom. 40 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: She makes her home in Bellingham, Washington, and she is 41 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 2: just a regular old gal that has a ton of 42 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 2: wisdom for us all. And I fell in love with her, 43 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 2: and I know that you're going to fall in love 44 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 2: with her too, so help me. Welcome my new friend, 45 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: Willow Weston Willo, Welcome to the podcast. 46 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me on. 47 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 2: Okay, So I was telling you before we hit record. 48 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 2: You are the very first guest I've ever had on 49 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 2: the show where I have listened to you on another podcast. 50 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 2: You are a guest on another podcast, and I loved 51 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 2: you so much that I reached out to you and 52 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 2: wanted you to be on this podcast as well. 53 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 3: That's so kind, that's so kind. I just you know, 54 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 3: I hopped on here for a self esteem boost. 55 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 2: Apparently, Hey girl, we all need them, don't we. 56 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 3: You sure do? No, thank you, It's an honor to 57 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 3: be on. I'm glad I get to hang out with 58 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 3: you today. 59 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 2: Okay, So you have a ministry and you have a 60 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 2: read new book by the way too, that Piggyback's off 61 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 2: of your ministry. So tell us the name of your ministry, 62 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 2: the name of your book, and how that even came 63 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: to be. Why that name because it's really interesting. 64 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, get ready to kick back, like, get 65 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 3: your tea out in a blanket because it's a long story. 66 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 3: But the ministry that I didn't mean to start, didn't 67 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 3: try to start is called Collide and my book also, 68 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 3: the publishing company actually changed the title of the book 69 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 3: to Collide, and the tagline is running into Healing when 70 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 3: Life Hands You Hurt. 71 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 2: Okay, wait, wait, wait, I want to pause right there 72 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: because that I want you to to say that subtitle 73 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: again because it is gold. 74 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: So what is the subtitle again? 75 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, running into Healing when Life Hands You Hurt. 76 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: Okay. 77 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: I can just tell you A bunch of people just 78 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: stop what they were doing and they're like, oh, I 79 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 2: need this, I need to listen to this, so obviously 80 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: keep going. 81 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: I interrupted you. 82 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I wish that people didn't need it, right, 83 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 3: but it's true that we do. It's true that we've 84 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 3: all experienced hurt, whether it's big trauma or little hurt. 85 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 3: And you know, we've all run into wounded people who 86 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 3: wounded us, and now we need healing. And if we 87 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 3: don't get healing, and that's kind of the premise of 88 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 3: the book, our hurt starts to come out sideways, and 89 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 3: it starts to leak out sideways and hurt the people 90 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 3: that we love the most. And so that started happening 91 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 3: to me in fact. I open up the book, and 92 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,280 Speaker 3: this is before I had a ministry. I had just 93 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 3: had my second kid, and I had been in vocational 94 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 3: ministry before I had kids. I decided to stay at home, 95 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 3: and there I was on your average Wednesday. I got 96 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 3: a knock on my door and go to the door 97 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 3: and looking the people and see my mom on the 98 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 3: other side of the door, and I flipped out and 99 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 3: it was like, oh, my childhood pain and neglect and 100 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 3: dealing with her addiction, and everything came flooding back. I 101 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 3: had and lived with her since I was fifteen years old. 102 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 3: She got rid of me when I was fifteen, and 103 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 3: another family across the state took me in. And so 104 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 3: here she was moving into my town, trying to be 105 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 3: super grandma and she wasn't hurting you or anything. She 106 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 3: showed up to my door, but it was all this 107 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 3: unresolved pain that I hadn't dealt with yet. And so 108 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 3: I took Bella, my baby, and I ran upstairs and 109 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 3: I hid in a closet because I didn't want her 110 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 3: to know where in there, because I didn't want to 111 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 3: open the door and I didn't want to let her in. 112 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 3: And I had this profound moment with God in that 113 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 3: closet where here I was shushing my baby, trying to 114 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 3: keep her quiet because I couldn't handle my own mother. 115 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 3: And God said, Willow, I've done a lot of healing 116 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 3: in your life, but there's more that needs to be done, 117 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 3: and that's never been more clear than this moment, and 118 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 3: you need to step outside of this closet and need 119 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 3: to get some help. And that's what I did, and 120 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 3: I stepped outside of that clause. I ended up in 121 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 3: a counseling office within a week or two, and you know, 122 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 3: the counselors asked me what brings you in today type vibes? 123 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 3: And I just start making jokes about how I'm playing 124 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 3: hide and seek by myself. But then we got down 125 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 3: to business and she told me, you need to tell 126 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 3: your mom you could only spend thirty minutes a week 127 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 3: with her. And the only way I can describe it 128 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 3: is like the counselor came in the room, like God's 129 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 3: spirit came in the room, and I just kind of 130 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 3: yelled at this therapist was isn't really my style? And 131 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 3: I was like, no, like that's not what I need 132 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 3: to do. I need to figure out how to love 133 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 3: the person who wounded me the most. That's what Jesus does. 134 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 3: And I was born into wounds. I collided with wounds. 135 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 3: I'd never heard this idea before started coming out of me. 136 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 3: I just said, I collided with my mother's wounds. She 137 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 3: wounded me because she didn't get healing, and now I 138 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 3: might wound my daughter. I need Jesus to heal me. 139 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 3: And I said, we're all just wounded, and we're walking 140 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: around and we're colliding with each other and we're wounding 141 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 3: each other. And when I see Jesus in the New Testament, 142 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 3: when he collides with people, he leaves them more hold 143 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 3: and broken. And I need to become more whole, just 144 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 3: like my mom needs to become more whole. And maybe 145 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 3: if I get more whole, I can bring healing into 146 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 3: the world instead of more pain. And so I walked 147 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 3: out of that therapist office. She probably thought I was 148 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 3: a psycho. I gave her eighty five bucks, and the 149 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 3: Lord said to me walking into my car, and this 150 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 3: was I don't know a lot of years ago. He said, 151 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 3: you're going to do something with those two words wounded, collision, 152 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 3: and I wasn't looking to do anything. And then the 153 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 3: next week, a college aged girl asked me to mentor her, 154 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 3: and obviously I didn't feel like the mentoring type. I mean, 155 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 3: I'm hiding in a closet. I'm not super well right now. 156 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 3: And I said, what are you looking for? You know, 157 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 3: do you want me to pray over you? Do you 158 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 3: want to learn how to make chili? Do you just 159 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 3: want an old person to hang out with? Like, what 160 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 3: are you hoping for? And she said she wanted to 161 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 3: learn more about Jesus. And I said, well, God just 162 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 3: gave me this epiphany, wounded collision. Do you want to 163 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 3: look at the life of Jesus in the New Testament 164 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 3: and him running into wounded people and what he does 165 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 3: as a result. And she said yes. And so she 166 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: called that week and said, can I bring a few friends? 167 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 3: I thought, sure, you can bring a few. I thought 168 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 3: she'd bring four, and she brought twenty five. And then 169 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 3: they invited friends, who invited friends, And it's turned into 170 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 3: tens of thousands of women over the years that we've 171 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 3: ministered to. But I wasn't looking to start a ministry 172 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 3: called Collide. But really it was God meeting me in 173 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 3: the middle of my pain and not only bringing healing 174 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 3: but then purposing that pain to help other people in 175 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 3: their That's the story. Now you can like take a 176 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 3: sip of your tea, you know you can. Maybe you've 177 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,679 Speaker 3: already ran a mile on that treadmill where you listening 178 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 3: to his podcasts. 179 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: That is so profound though. 180 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 2: You know what I love is that when people collided 181 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 2: into Jesus, he left them more healed and broken, and 182 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 2: that is really powerful. Walk is kind of through how 183 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 2: because obviously that took a while, that was a path, right, 184 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: So for you, what did that look like? 185 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 3: What? 186 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: You know, when we say that colliding into Jesus, somebody 187 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 2: might think, okay, well I'll go to a Bible study. 188 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: And I mean, yes, that's wonderful. That's you even did 189 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 2: that with the now that you were mentoring. Let's look 190 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 2: at Jesus in the New Testament. But it's more than 191 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 2: just going to a Bible study, right, That's part of 192 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 2: it is because it always is based in the Word. 193 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 2: But what does that look like? Whatd that look like 194 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 2: for you? 195 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 3: Yeah? I think it looks different for everyone. I think 196 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 3: that's important to say because think about it, We've all 197 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 3: been hurt in different ways. So at what it looks 198 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 3: like to heal. The healing is going to come in 199 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 3: the form of different things. Jesus is our ultimate healer, 200 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 3: but I think he asks us to participate in our 201 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 3: own healing. There's this weird thing where I think Christians, 202 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 3: some Christians, I should say, have this idea or this 203 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 3: hope that God's just going to wave a magic wand 204 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 3: and make you better. But when you look at Jesus 205 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 3: in the New Testament when he runs into people, yes 206 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 3: he performs miracles, very true, but so often he actually 207 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 3: asks people to participate. So if you think about the 208 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 3: man with the shriveled hand, he actually says, I want 209 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 3: you to stretch out your hand. Or you think about 210 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 3: the woman she's bent over by a spirit and he's 211 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 3: teaching in a and he actually asks her to come 212 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 3: forward in front of the crowd and walk up to 213 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 3: her healing. You think about the man who's been stuck 214 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 3: on his mat waiting for the water seat holm for 215 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 3: thirty eight years and Jesus says, pick up your mat 216 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 3: and walk. I'm sure the guy's like, bro, Jesus, did 217 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 3: you get the memo. I'm the guy that doesn't walk. 218 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 3: I've literally been stuck here for forty years. Like I 219 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 3: want to celebrate my fortieth birthday here and Jesus says, 220 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 3: pick up your men, and why he's asking us to participate. 221 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 3: And so when we've experienced pain, and like I said, 222 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 3: big pain, I had trauma as a kid, experience neglect, demandment, 223 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 3: all this big stuff. But I also have experienced a 224 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 3: friend leaving me out of something and it hurt my feelings. 225 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 3: And I can pretend it doesn't hurt my feelings, but 226 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 3: the truth is is that it stays inside right and 227 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 3: if it doesn't get resolved, it comes out sideways in 228 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 3: bitterness or all a whole host of things. And that's 229 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 3: true of any her. And so we have to be 230 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 3: real with ourselves, in real with God and go, where's 231 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 3: a hurting place within me that's unresolved and it's coming 232 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 3: out sideways? And Jesus, will you heal me? And what 233 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 3: is my role in healing? What do you want me 234 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 3: to do? For some people, it's literally do the flippin' 235 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 3: physical therapy exercises that your physical therapist has given you. 236 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 3: Right like for other people it is call a counselor 237 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 3: for someone else it might be write a letter to 238 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 3: the person who hurt you, even if you don't intend 239 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 3: on mailing it, and for someone else that might be, 240 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 3: go confess to your spouse that you've been having an 241 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 3: emotional fair. I don't know what it is for each person, 242 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 3: but God will certainly show you and invite you to participate. 243 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 3: But you can't sit here and go, Man, I feel broken, 244 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 3: I feel a mess, I feel stuck or whatever it is, 245 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 3: and just hope it you wake up on a Wednesday different. 246 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 3: I think God wants you to participate and want your 247 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 3: own health and healing as much as you want him 248 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 3: to want it. 249 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: Okay, this is profound, This is so good. 250 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 2: Okay, We're going to take a quick break and when 251 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,599 Speaker 2: we come back, I have so many more questions for 252 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 2: you that I'm wondering, and I know our listeners are 253 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 2: wondering as well. Okay, So I love the fact that 254 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 2: you just said Jesus asks us to participate in our healing. 255 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 2: And I love that because I mean, I have to 256 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 2: confess Willow that sometimes I have been guilty, and it's 257 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 2: like it's almost subconscious where you just pray for healing 258 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 2: over some sort of hurt, and you really do think 259 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: God's going to zapew with forgiveness. Or zap you with 260 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 2: peace or zapew with whatever it is. But I love 261 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 2: the fact that you are really making us mindful that 262 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 2: that's not what Jesus did in the Bible mostly. I mean, yes, 263 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,599 Speaker 2: he did do miracles, but mostly he asks people to participate. 264 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: That is so, so, so good. 265 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 2: Okay, So what I'm wondering is this is a misconception 266 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 2: that people have right about how healing takes place when 267 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 2: we're hurt. So what are some of the other misconceptions 268 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 2: that you've run into as you minister to all these women. 269 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think if there's a huge misconception in Christian 270 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 3: culture that because you have Jesus you should be good. 271 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 3: I think that is not true. I think Jesus is good, 272 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 3: but we sort of think, oh, like I should be 273 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 3: over this. I've seen this so many times. One of 274 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 3: my best friends she gave birth to twins and they died, 275 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 3: and she was surrounded by a lot of people who 276 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 3: were like, hey, it's been two months, Like, shouldn't you 277 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 3: move on by now? Shouldn't you move on? Like you 278 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 3: should be good? You have God, like it wasn't his will, 279 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 3: Like he'll give you other children. We just sort of 280 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 3: want to we're so uncomfortable with pain, and we're so 281 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 3: uncomfortable with other people's pain, and that's mostly because we 282 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 3: haven't been taught how to deal with pain, and so 283 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:44,599 Speaker 3: we just kind of want to whisk it away for 284 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 3: other people. And so then we've learned we should whisk 285 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 3: it away for ourselves because other people tried to whisk 286 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 3: our pain away, and so we pretend we're fine when 287 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 3: we're not fine. We're more interested in looking okay than 288 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 3: actually being okay, and we aren't giving ourselves to other 289 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 3: people permission slips to go you know what, No this 290 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 3: sucks or no, this is hard or this is sad 291 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 3: or I'm still triggered and I ran into a closet 292 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 3: with my baby. But I've literally been a woman in 293 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 3: vocational ministry, like can I be real about that or 294 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 3: do I have to hide that because you're gonna judge 295 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 3: me and think, well, you should be finding of Jesus. 296 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 3: I think Jesus is more interested in being real with us, 297 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 3: in us getting real with him. I think Jesus the Jesus. 298 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 3: I see the Jesus I know when I look in 299 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 3: the New Testament, I see a Jesus who's on and 300 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 3: all out pursuit, chasing down people who are hurting and 301 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 3: he wants to get real about what's hurting them. He said, 302 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 3: I came for the sick, right, not the healthy. It's 303 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 3: almost like we're sitting around. I sometimes think of churches 304 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 3: like this. Are we showing up to church? Like it 305 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 3: would be like a doctor's office where people are just 306 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 3: showing up because they're good. They just want to tell 307 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 3: the doctor how good they are. I show up to 308 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 3: Jesus because I'm sick. I need his healing, I need 309 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 3: his help. So like, why are we sitting around pretending 310 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 3: we're good because we have God? When we can be 311 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 3: real with God because he's a real God. About the 312 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 3: ways that were not good? 313 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: Speaking of good that's good? 314 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 2: As you were talking and I was visualizing, like your 315 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 2: mom at the door, you running to the closet, something 316 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 2: that you did though that was well, it was holy 317 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 2: spirit inspired, but it was the first step in your journey. 318 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 2: Is that you didn't put your focus on your mom 319 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 2: being there. You put your focus on your response to 320 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 2: your mom. Does that make sense? So in other words, 321 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 2: you had the presence of mind to think, wait a minute, 322 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: look at how I'm responding to this, This is showing 323 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 2: me something about myself. And see, I think that a 324 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 2: lot of us we don't take the time to ask ourselves, 325 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 2: what is this showing me about me? Because we can't 326 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 2: focus on the other person, about how they hurt us, 327 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 2: about how they were wrong about how and yes, obviously 328 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 2: your mom did a bunch of wrong things right, but 329 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 2: that wasn't going to heal you. The first step is 330 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 2: this making sense. 331 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 3: It's making total sense. And to be fair, to be 332 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 3: fully confessional and true, that wasn't true of me for 333 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 3: many years before that. I think what had happened was 334 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 3: I had avoided my mom for a lot of years, 335 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 3: and then my mom moved into my town, and here 336 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 3: I was a Christian quote unquote, and I had the 337 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 3: hardest time wanting to do life with her, wanting to 338 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 3: be around her. And I think what wrecked me, and 339 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 3: the reason why it wrecked me was because I had 340 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 3: spent I gave my life to Jesus when I was 341 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 3: twenty one, so in my early thirties is when I 342 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 3: was in that closet, and I think what wrecked me 343 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 3: was I had spent a decade with Jesus. I spent 344 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 3: a decade studying the life of Jesus and seeking Jesus 345 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 3: and meeting Jesus and learning about him. And it wrecked 346 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 3: me that everything I wanted to do was agree with 347 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 3: the counselor. I wanted to push my mom out of 348 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 3: my life. I wanted I was finally counselor approved, I 349 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 3: could be like, you're right, I shouldn't hang out with 350 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 3: this woman. She's wrecked me. I don't I don't want 351 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 3: to hang out with there. But what was actually wrecking 352 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 3: me in that therapist's office was that I couldn't shake Jesus. 353 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 3: I couldn't shake that Jesus loves the people who hurt 354 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 3: him the most, right, Like, look at Jesus. He literally 355 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 3: washed Judas's feet. He died next to two criminals and 356 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 3: he wasn't one, and he said to one of them, today, 357 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 3: you'll be with me in paradise. Like he loved us 358 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,719 Speaker 3: so much, and he loved people who betrayed him and 359 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 3: mocked him and tortured him, and he died for them. 360 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 3: And so I think it was spending time with Jesus. 361 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 3: And when you spend time with him, after a while, 362 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 3: it's really hard to make excuses for why you keep 363 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 3: not loving the people in your life who are wounded. 364 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 2: Okay, one of the things that just came to my 365 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 2: mind that Jesus said is I came to set the 366 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 2: captives free. And I think that when we're hurt, when 367 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 2: we're wounded, there was this part of our soul that 368 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 2: becomes captive to that wound, and we can just stay 369 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 2: there because of the way that we try to manage. 370 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 2: And I know you talk about that in the book 371 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 2: about kind of some ineffective ways that people deal with 372 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 2: those wounds. So talk to us a little bit about 373 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 2: and that keeps us, It just keeps us in bondage, 374 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 2: It keeps us captives. So talk to us a little 375 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 2: bit about those ways that maybe we use for coping. 376 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I have a chapter in the book 377 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 3: that's called ten Wounded Ways we try to heal, And 378 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 3: it's these ways that actually end up hurting us more 379 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 3: than helping us. I mean, there's so many things we do. 380 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 3: Look at the woman in Scripture who was hemorrhaging. She'd 381 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 3: been bleeding for twelve years, right, and Jesus was actually 382 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 3: a dad. It had run or out to Jesus and 383 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 3: asked him to heal his daughter and while Jesus is 384 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 3: on his way to save a kid, this woman who's 385 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 3: been bleeding for twelve years, reaches out and touches the 386 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 3: hem of Jesus's robe. She fights the crowd to reach 387 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 3: for the healing she longs for, which is actually so 388 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 3: powerful to think about, because when's the last time like 389 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 3: you fought for your own healing, and you deserve to 390 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 3: fight for your own healing. By the way, she reaches 391 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 3: out to Jesus, and Scripture had said like she had 392 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 3: spent everything she had to get well. So here she is. 393 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 3: She's completely outcasted. She's considered unclean because she's been bleeding, 394 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 3: so she's socially isolated, she's spiritually isolated. She can't go 395 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 3: in this synagogue. She's financially destitute, so she's got to 396 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 3: be emotionally and mentally on the struggle bus. So here 397 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 3: she is. She everything she's tried, she's spent everything she 398 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 3: had to get well, and she didn't get well. And 399 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 3: I think we're like that too. I think we're also 400 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 3: like the guy who I talked about earlier, who's waiting 401 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 3: at the waters and he thinks these magical waters are 402 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 3: going to heal him and he's like, if I just 403 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 3: get down to these waters. And I think we're like that, 404 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 3: Like we're like if I just do the Keto diet 405 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 3: and get a new body, or if I find a 406 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 3: new man, or if I just come into some money, 407 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 3: or if I get a different career. We're just always 408 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 3: thinking like if I just do this or get this, 409 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 3: that's going to like make me better. And that man 410 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 3: who was thinking like that is standing in the presence 411 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 3: of the healer, like Jesus is standing right next to him, 412 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 3: and the guy is still thinking. He's fixated on the 413 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 3: one thing that's going to get him better instead of 414 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 3: turning to the one who is the best who can 415 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 3: ultimately heal him. And I think we're like that. I 416 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 3: think we fixate on the one thing. And I wonder, like, 417 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 3: even for your listeners, what's that one thing that you think, 418 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 3: if I just this, then my life will be better. 419 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 3: Because that's what you're putting your hope in. It's not Jesus. 420 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 3: You're putting your hope in fill in that blank, if 421 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 3: I just this, then my life will be better. That 422 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 3: ends up hurting us, right because we're so fixated on 423 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 3: this one thing, and that one thing ends up hurting 424 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 3: our life. 425 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 2: That one thing ends up hurting our life, and then 426 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 2: we're pursuing that rather than pursuing Jesus, who could actually 427 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 2: heal us, who could actually set us free. 428 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: That's so good. 429 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 2: So you were just talking to us about looking for 430 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 2: other things that are really we think are going to 431 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 2: heal us, or maybe avoiding the thing that's causing us pain, 432 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 2: which might be okay for a certain time or certain circumstances. 433 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 2: Certainly that's okay, But what are some of the other 434 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 2: ways that we might not even know. Somebody's listening and 435 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 2: they're not even aware that they're actually perpetuating the hurt, 436 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 2: perpetuating the wound by the way they're trying to manage 437 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 2: the wound. 438 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 3: Two things come to mind, and I think I have 439 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 3: a story for both of them. So it might take 440 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 3: me a minute to get to both of them. But 441 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 3: the first one ties in with something we talked about 442 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: a little bit earlier. But I'll tell it in the 443 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 3: form of a story because I think it's really interesting. 444 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 3: I speak different places. That was a retreat once in 445 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 3: speaking to this group and this young woman, I don't know, 446 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 3: early thirties or something. I'm guessing just delightful, and she 447 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 3: came up to me and talked to me. After first session, 448 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 3: she starts talking, then she starts crying. She's like, I 449 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 3: don't know, I'm crying. And then after the next session 450 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 3: she comes talk to me again and she's like, oh shoot, 451 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 3: I'm crying again. But I should be good. I have God, 452 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 3: Like why am I crying? And then this keeps happening 453 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 3: and she's like, it's fine, like I have Jesus, have 454 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 3: a savior. I shouldn't be crying. So finally a lunch 455 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 3: it happens again, and I'm like, all right, let's have 456 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 3: a little chat. Let's have a little sid sies. And so, 457 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 3: because she said it was something ten years ago, I 458 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 3: should be over it. And I said, well, tell me 459 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 3: what happened ten years ago, and she said, well, I 460 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 3: was dating a guy. We were supposed to be getting married, 461 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,719 Speaker 3: and we didn't have the same faith and values, and 462 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 3: I felt like I was supposed to break up with him, 463 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 3: and I did and he killed himself. And she said, 464 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 3: my pastors and my spiritual mentors told me, you're good, 465 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 3: you have God, you did the right thing. Move on, like, 466 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,439 Speaker 3: you have a savior, You're good. And so here she was, 467 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 3: and she's still crying ten years later, and she doesn't 468 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 3: know why. And I looked at her and I said, 469 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 3: you're still crying because you're still sad. We have these 470 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 3: things inside of us, and we have to pay attention 471 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 3: to them. We're afraid of emotions. A lot of people 472 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 3: are afraid of our own emotions. We're stuffing them or 473 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 3: dismissing them. We're not paying attention to them. We're eating 474 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 3: or drinking or doing whatever you can to not feel them. 475 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 3: But your actual emotions are telling you something, right, So 476 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 3: if you're mad, it's because you're still mad. If you're bitter, 477 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,959 Speaker 3: it's because you're still bitter. If you're shut down, it's 478 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 3: because you're still shut down. So pay attention to yourself. 479 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 3: If you're crying, it doesn't mean Jesus isn't a savior. 480 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 3: It means that you were never given permission. I looked 481 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 3: at her and I said, someone killed themselves that you love. 482 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 3: That is so tragic, That is so sad. Of course 483 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 3: you're crying. Of course you're crying. You should have been 484 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 3: given permission to cry in grief for as long as 485 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 3: you needed to, but she wasn't, And so it was 486 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 3: coming outside of it. So one of the things we 487 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 3: do is we try to kind of like stuff and dismiss, 488 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 3: but it's gonna leak out sideways. So that's one of 489 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 3: the things. And the second thing I think of that's 490 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 3: super damaging is that we just try to avoid paying 491 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 3: all together, which is the case I make in my book. 492 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 3: I think because we're so uncomfortable with pain, the people 493 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 3: who we grew up with didn't know what to do 494 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 3: with their own pain, and so we learn from them 495 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 3: how to not deal with pain. I mean, think about 496 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 3: what we do with little children when they're crying. We 497 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 3: don't like they're crying and they skin their knee and 498 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 3: we're just like, get a band aid, put a band aid. Oh, 499 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 3: the bandy's on your knee. Like you're good, you can 500 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 3: stop crying now. And you know, the kids just like 501 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 3: still wants to cry, but they feel like they have 502 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 3: to stop crying because we're just trying to get it 503 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 3: to stop. So we're pain avoidant. But our pain avoidance 504 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 3: isn't healing pain. It's actually creating more pain. And so 505 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 3: if you can begin to give yourself permission to run 506 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 3: towards pain, like Jesus does, you're gonna see a heck 507 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 3: of a lot more healing than you avoiding pain. Look 508 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 3: at my mother. You'll find out what happens to my 509 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 3: mom when you read the book. But I'll tell you 510 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 3: this I learned from an addiction specialist. I said to 511 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 3: this addiction specialist, I don't get it. Does my mom 512 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 3: not realize she has a problem? And she said, oh no, 513 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 3: your mom knows she has a problem. Every attict knows 514 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 3: they have a problem, but they say to themselves, yeah, yeah, yeah, 515 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 3: I know, I know I have a problem. I'll deal 516 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 3: with it, just not today, someday, but just not today. 517 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 3: Maybe tomorrow, maybe tomorrow, but not today. And so what 518 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 3: we do with our pain, big or small? Think about it. 519 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 3: You have a friendship issue right now. Not you don't it, 520 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 3: but like I'm just saying you general, you're like, yeah, yeah, 521 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 3: like I'll have that hard conversation and then a week 522 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 3: goes by, a month goes by, six months. Now you've 523 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 3: distanced yourself. Now, like things got weird. Someone didn't invite 524 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 3: someone over to something, and it's because you are pain avoidant, 525 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 3: and so are they right? It could be anything your 526 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 3: husband and you fighting, something that happened with your kids 527 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 3: something with the boss. The more you avoid pain, the 528 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 3: more your pain is going to multiply and multiply, layer 529 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 3: and layer and layer and become bigger and bigger and bigger, 530 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 3: and so pain avoidance isn't working. We have to run 531 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 3: towards pain with Jesus and it's there that it can 532 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 3: be healed. 533 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: Wow. 534 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 2: That is what a lot of people don't want to hear. 535 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 2: But it is the one thing that we all need 536 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 2: to hear because you are so right. Everybody listening knows 537 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 2: that you're right. Because the more that we avoid it, 538 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 2: the worse it becomes. Gosh Willow, it's so hard to 539 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 2: run toward it, isn't it. It's hard to run toward 540 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 2: it with Jesus. 541 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 3: Well, think about this, Donna. I'd love to tell all 542 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 3: of us like, hey, bros, like let's go to Disneyland. 543 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 3: Jesus will meet us there, wave a magic wand will 544 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 3: be good. That's not happening. But if you think about 545 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 3: me in that closet with my daughter. My daughter's twenty 546 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 3: years old. She's I know, I'm a biased girl, but 547 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 3: she's beautiful and kind and smart, and she's doing amazing 548 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 3: things in the world. If I would have pretended that 549 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 3: I wasn't triggered that day, if I didn't pay attention 550 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 3: to just a mere trigger, if I just said, yeah, 551 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 3: it was kind of an off day, or it'll be fine, 552 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 3: or I won't do that again, or it's all good. 553 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 3: If I didn't tell my husband, if I didn't call 554 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 3: the therapist. If I can trying to pretend I was 555 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 3: good with my mom and kept pretending and living into 556 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 3: her denial and her fake story and kept acting like 557 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,360 Speaker 3: it didn't bother me. Where would my daughter be today? 558 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 3: What would my daughter be like? 559 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, she'd be fearful, she'd be pain avoidant, she'd be anxious. 560 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 2: You're right, there's a lot of things. She sure wouldn't 561 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 2: be healthy. 562 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 3: When we say yes to Jesus's healing in our life, 563 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 3: we're giving the people we love most permission to do 564 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 3: the same. 565 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: Oh say that again. 566 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 3: When we say yes to Jesus healing our life, we 567 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 3: give the people we love the most permission to do 568 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 3: the same by coming out of the closet and admitting 569 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,479 Speaker 3: I'm broken and I need some help, and I actually 570 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 3: need help, Like I need to go to a therapist 571 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 3: or I need to go to a doctor. I need 572 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 3: to read the Bible, where I need to pray, I 573 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 3: need to do these things. I gave my kids permission 574 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 3: number one, to admit when they're not okay. I modeled 575 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 3: that for them. I confess that they saw it. I 576 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 3: didn't hide it from them. Now they know where to 577 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 3: go when they have an off day. They know where 578 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 3: to go when they're broken, they know where to go 579 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 3: when they don't love someone who's hard to love. They 580 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 3: know where to go when they're stuck. They know where 581 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 3: to go because I didn't act put together. I actually 582 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 3: completely showed them that I'm broken, I need Jesus. 583 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 2: And isn't that my gosh Willow. The truth of the 584 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 2: matter is we're all broken and we all need Jesus. 585 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 3: But we're all walking around acting like we don't and 586 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 3: it's not helping anybody. 587 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: It's not helping anybody. That's so true. 588 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 2: Okay, So as we're winding up here, somebody's listening and 589 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 2: they're resonating with everything that you're saying. But they're like, gosh, 590 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 2: I'm so wounded, I'm so hurt. I'm right in the 591 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 2: middle of it. Because there's some of us that were like, yes, 592 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 2: we haven't hurt. We haven't wounded there, but we're not 593 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 2: living in the. 594 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: Middle of it right now. 595 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 2: But there's some people listening that it's fresh. Talk to 596 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 2: that person who they're smack dab in the middle of it. 597 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 2: What would you want that person to know? 598 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 3: I would want them to know that they're worthy of healing. 599 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 3: That God wants that ache to go away, that hurt 600 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 3: to experience balm. He wants them to have peace rather 601 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 3: than anxiety. He doesn't want them up with sleepless nights 602 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 3: and insecure and walking into parties feeling like they're not 603 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 3: enough and they're inadequate and they'll never be enough. He 604 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 3: wants them to live into those dreams that they think 605 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 3: about but they're afraid to admit because they keep convincing 606 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 3: themselves that they're not good enough for God sized dreams. 607 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 3: God wants so much more than that for us, And 608 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 3: so I think we have to believe that God is 609 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 3: good and he wants us to become more whole, and 610 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 3: we can become more whole. It's possible. I mean, That's 611 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 3: what I love to talk about in my book and stuff, 612 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 3: is like God is literally real in showing up and 613 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 3: he's redeeming lives. He's healing people, he's freeing people, he's 614 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 3: getting people unstuck. And if he can do it in 615 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 3: other people's lives, certainly he could do it in yours. 616 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,479 Speaker 3: And so what's the first step you can take today? 617 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 3: To PARTA? Anticipate? You feel pain in you're hurting, and 618 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 3: the Lord sits with you, and he weeps with you, 619 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 3: and he loves you, and he has compassion on you. 620 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 3: But if you were to grab your hand right now 621 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 3: and walk you somewhere to get some help and healing, 622 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 3: what would the first step be for you? I think 623 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 3: that would be an important question to ask. 624 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 2: That is good even as you were, just as you're talking, 625 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 2: I'm just reminded that the enemy does not want us 626 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 2: to get free, and he will whisper those lies. This 627 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 2: is impossible, this is too much like you said, you're 628 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 2: not worthy. Where would you go? How would you start? 629 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 2: You know he wants to paralyze us, and then that 630 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 2: the Lord wants to set us free? And I love 631 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 2: that question. What would be the first step? What would 632 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 2: be the first step? 633 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: Will? This is so good? 634 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 2: I could talk to you all day long, but I 635 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 2: suppose that's why we buy your book. So tell our 636 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 2: listeners where they can connect with you and where they 637 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 2: can get a copy of your book. 638 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I'm glad we're new friends, Donna. 639 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,239 Speaker 3: I'm glad you came and found me, and this has 640 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 3: been really fun to hang out with you. Where people 641 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 3: can get the book, they can get it at Barnes 642 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 3: and Noble or Amazon or wherever you buy books type thing. 643 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 3: And yeah, I'm on Instagram at willowynn. Weston. If people 644 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 3: want to fall along with my life, I'd love to 645 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 3: fall along with theirs. And thank you for having me. 646 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: It has been such a treat to have it on 647 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: the show. 648 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 2: And we, by the way, we'll put all that information 649 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 2: in the show notes so that the listeners can find 650 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 2: you easily. So, Willow, I love, love, love all of 651 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 2: your wisdom. And one of the things I love about 652 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 2: at most, Willow is that it has been hard fought, 653 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 2: real life wisdom that you've experienced in your own life, 654 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 2: and not just wisdom healing. And I love that you 655 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 2: collided into Jesus and he set you free, and you're 656 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 2: wanting other women to collide into Jesus and set them 657 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 2: free too. 658 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: So thank you so. 659 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 3: Much, Thank you, Donna. 660 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: Well, wasn't that a great conversation. 661 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 2: I'm certain it was just what you needed, or it 662 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,959 Speaker 2: would be just but someone that you know needs. 663 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: So I'm going to ask you be brave. 664 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 2: Share this episode with a friend, share on social media, 665 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 2: text somebody, tell them you need to listen to this 666 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 2: episode because all of us have places that need healing 667 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 2: and let's let Jesus do that. And as a reminder, 668 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 2: I would love to connect. 669 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: With you on social media. 670 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 2: I mean, that's kind of a weird transition right from 671 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 2: what we just talked about, but I would love to 672 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 2: be part of your community of encouragement. You can find 673 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 2: me on Instagram at Donna A. Jones, on Facebook at 674 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,239 Speaker 2: Donna Jones Speaker an Author, or head over to my 675 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 2: website because I have so many free resources. On my website, 676 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 2: it's Donna Jones dot org and you can also find 677 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 2: my speaking calendar there. I would love to meet you 678 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 2: face to face at one of my events, and as always, 679 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 2: my friend, I can't wait to see you next time, 680 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 2: for that's just what I needed.