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Speaker 1: Life Audio. Hello, Hello, and welcome to the Confessions of

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Speaker 1: a Christian Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel.

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Speaker 1: This is your home for real stories, radical vulnerability, and

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Speaker 1: remarkable comebacks. In the end, this podcast is a place

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Speaker 1: for the desperate, the downtrodden, the destitute, and especially the drunk.

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Speaker 1: But it's also a place of hope and healing. I

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Speaker 1: know that firsthand because I'm the Christian who became an alcoholic,

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Speaker 1: not the other way around. Today I've found sobriety after

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Speaker 1: decades of struggling. But more importantly than finding sobriety, I

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Speaker 1: found Jesus. My prayer is that as I interview people

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Speaker 1: just like you and just like me, along with professionals

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Speaker 1: in the fields of trauma, faith and addiction recovery, you

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Speaker 1: will find the piece that is available to you through

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Speaker 1: Christ on the other side of whatever you're going through

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Speaker 1: and whatever addiction that might be. Because let's face it,

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Speaker 1: we're all addicted to something so welcome, let's get radically

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Speaker 1: vulnerable as we explore what it looks like to be

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Speaker 1: on this journey of MESSI sanctification. We'll be right back

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Speaker 1: after this. What would you do if you lost the

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Speaker 1: ability to walk what would you do if everything that

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Speaker 1: really came to define who you are was gone in

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Speaker 1: a year? That is, you know, a big part of

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Speaker 1: the question and the questions that today's guest was forced

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Speaker 1: to grapple with. Kimberly Finney is a beautiful writer. She

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Speaker 1: is just an incredible poet, and she pretty much lost everything,

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Speaker 1: including the ability to walk, the ability to lift her head,

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Speaker 1: because of chronic illness. And so what does that have

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Speaker 1: to do with addiction, you might be asking, And that's

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Speaker 1: a great question, And what I would say is it

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Speaker 1: was actually that coming to the end of herself physically

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Speaker 1: that forced her to deal with what she calls some

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Speaker 1: shiny addictions in her life, the addictions that we tend

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Speaker 1: to see as socially acceptable, the workaholism, the people pleasing,

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Speaker 1: the perfectionism. And so Kimberly today is going to talk

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Speaker 1: about the addictions that she had that pushed her to

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Speaker 1: not just the edge, but into the abyss of a

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Speaker 1: nervous breakdown. And then how a chronic illness and you know,

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Speaker 1: coming to the point where physically she could not live

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Speaker 1: the way that she was able to live, and how

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Speaker 1: that forced her to deal with her shiny addictions, and

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Speaker 1: I am really I'm really invested in this this episode

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Speaker 1: because unfortunately, my wife has dealt with many of the

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Speaker 1: issues that Kimberly has. In fact, they share a chronic

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Speaker 1: diagnosis together, and so the surgeries that Kimberly talks about

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Speaker 1: our surgeries that my wife has gone through as well.

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Speaker 1: And so this is an interesting episode. It crosses over addictions,

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Speaker 1: chronic illness, and suffering, and I think you will be

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Speaker 1: really encouraged. So if you've had an addiction, this is for you.

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Speaker 1: If you've had one of those soft shiny addictions, this

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Speaker 1: is for you. If you've dealt with chronic illness, this

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Speaker 1: is for you. And if you've dealt with suffering in

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Speaker 1: any way, this is for you. And so I am

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Speaker 1: so I'm so excited and honored that Kimberly, she shares

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Speaker 1: things in this podcast that she hasn't shared with anyone

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Speaker 1: else before. She's open, she's vulnerable, and I'm really confident

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Speaker 1: that this is going to help people who are listening. So,

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Speaker 1: without further ado, Kimberly, Pinny, Kimberly, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for joining the Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: really honored to have you on here. We've been substack

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Speaker 1: friends for a while, which I'm learning is like way like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you can have friends on social media and

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Speaker 1: you know you have Facebook friends and Instagram friends and

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Speaker 1: LinkedIn connections. But what I love about substack is that

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Speaker 1: it is legitimately I feel like a place where these

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Speaker 1: online friends you really connect with. And so absolutely, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just so appreciate you being on here. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: I am so grateful to be here today. And I

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Speaker 2: love your work.

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Speaker 1: And I know we can take this and we will

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Speaker 1: take this interview in a lot of different places, and

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Speaker 1: I kind of set that up a little bit in

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Speaker 1: the introduction, but you know, you're You're someone that I

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Speaker 1: think can speak to so many aspects of what this

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Speaker 1: podcast is about. But also I think, and I'm really

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Speaker 1: excited about this is to bring in a new aspect,

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Speaker 1: and that is a discussion on chronic illness and chronic

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Speaker 1: disease as someone who has myself been affected by that

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Speaker 1: with my with my wife. And so when you and

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Speaker 1: I started chatting about this, we're obviously going to talk

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Speaker 1: about addictions, and we're obviously going to talk about your

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Speaker 1: work and what you're doing in to get counseling doctorate

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Speaker 1: and that aspect. But I'm really excited to also offer

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Speaker 1: kind of open up a new door, and so thank

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Speaker 1: you for being willing to go there.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think it's going to be a great discussion today,

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Speaker 2: So thank you.

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Speaker 1: Now, Now where are you joining us from again?

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Speaker 2: So we are full time in Tampa, but our hearts

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Speaker 2: are in the Blue Ridge, so we part time there.

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Speaker 2: My family lived there for a while out in Barvard

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Speaker 2: Asheville area and so, and the goal is to eventually

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Speaker 2: get back to the Carolinas. So full time Tampa and

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Speaker 2: our hearts are in the mountains.

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Speaker 1: I love it my heart. I feel like like people,

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Speaker 1: you know a lot of people are like beach or mountains.

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Speaker 1: Beach or mountain. You're just like both.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I did the beach thing. I was a

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Speaker 2: beach girl coming up here since I was five. We're

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Speaker 2: from Boston. We moved though when I was five, So

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Speaker 2: I've been a beach Florida girl forever and I love it.

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Speaker 2: And of course you're not going to have any to

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Speaker 2: speak for me about the beaches, but now I am like,

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Speaker 2: give me my mountains.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, So I want to dive into your

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Speaker 1: story and it's like, you know, it's I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's necessarily going to be all like pretty and linear,

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Speaker 1: because I think so much stuff overlaps. But you know,

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Speaker 1: when you when we talk about your story when it

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Speaker 1: comes to addiction, you don't have in a sense, the

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Speaker 1: traditional addiction story of drugs of alcohol, you know, that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. But when you and I started talking,

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Speaker 1: you talked about, you know, kind of these what I

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Speaker 1: think some people would say, and I'm not I'm not

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Speaker 1: endorsing this, but more they're like they say, these are

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Speaker 1: like the softer addictions, right, these are the ones that

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Speaker 1: sometimes I think in a sense can be more dangerous

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Speaker 1: because they're more socially acceptable and you know, they don't

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Speaker 1: have these the big, necessarily destructive side effects that you

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Speaker 1: can see. But when you talk about your addictions, I

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Speaker 1: want you to talk about that, what is it that

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Speaker 1: you found yourself addicted to you?

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Speaker 2: So I would say it's like the shiny side of

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Speaker 2: addiction because again and doses and the way it can

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Speaker 2: look on the outside is like, oh wow, this person

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Speaker 2: is so successful or they really have it together, but

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Speaker 2: they don't realize that it's because there's an unbelievable monster

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Speaker 2: inside that's driving us to do the things that we're doing.

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Speaker 2: It's not coming from a healthy place. So for me,

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Speaker 2: it is that popery of perfectionism, workoholism, people pleasing, people pleasing,

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Speaker 2: and even to an extent vanity, which was, you know,

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Speaker 2: exercising and feeling only feeling good about myself when I

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Speaker 2: could put on the armor of a professional attire or

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Speaker 2: makeup or feeling like I was a certain amount on

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Speaker 2: the scale. And sadly that collection or constellation did drive

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Speaker 2: me to a complete mental breakdown and were things that

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Speaker 2: I struggled through.

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Speaker 1: And you know what's interesting is.

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Speaker 2: My physical health journey has eclipsed the mental illness that

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Speaker 2: I struggled with because of my shiny addictions. But they

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Speaker 2: the reason why is because they were slaughtered at the

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Speaker 2: foot of the cross through the physical illness, which is wild.

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Speaker 2: And in that way, to talk about something that Paul J. Pastor,

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Speaker 2: the poet of the Locust Years and he's an editor,

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Speaker 2: had just said is that it sometimes our suffering is

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Speaker 2: the perfect garment crafted just for us, not because our

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Speaker 2: savior doesn't love us, but because he loves us that much.

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Speaker 2: And that hit me like a ton of bricks in

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Speaker 2: our conversation because so many times we look at suffering

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Speaker 2: like this, especially for me with acute suffering, as this

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Speaker 2: is the albatross around my neck, this is horrific. Why

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Speaker 2: me and I still do have those moments. Okay, I'm

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Speaker 2: not trying to paint myself like a saint. I cried

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Speaker 2: and lament just as much as I have joy and

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Speaker 2: tried to speak into other people. It's very much both.

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Speaker 2: But my physical illness forced me to shatter my addictions.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't know that they were as bad as

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Speaker 2: they were, even though I knew they were bad, but

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Speaker 2: I didn't know about all of them until the physical

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Speaker 2: illness and being bedridden and losing my identity and losing

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Speaker 2: like public esteem and being gossiped about or slandered. I

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Speaker 2: didn't know what a god I made all of that

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Speaker 2: until it was all, you know, taken away within a

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Speaker 2: very short period of time because of my physical illness.

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Speaker 1: So, oh, great quotes, here we go. We're you know,

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Speaker 1: ten minutes about in and great, so I count on

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Speaker 1: the poet. Yeah right, I want to get I want

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Speaker 1: to get back to that, but I want to come

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Speaker 1: to that aspect of the of the suffering. But I

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Speaker 1: want to put a pin in that and just go

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Speaker 1: back a little bit. Sure, and can you walk us through,

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Speaker 1: I mean walk us through in a sense, what led

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Speaker 1: to your mental breakdown? What brought you to that point

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Speaker 1: where you started to see, Oh my gosh, you know

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Speaker 1: I've I've been, I've been the workaholic, I've been the people,

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Speaker 1: I've been the you know what did that look like?

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Speaker 2: So that would be like in my late twenties that

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Speaker 2: at the veneer of everything, of me running so hard

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Speaker 2: that I ran into a brick wall, kind of unraveled,

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Speaker 2: and I went through some very traumatic things as a child,

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Speaker 2: and that we'll just leave it at that, because I

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Speaker 2: feel like I'm still trying to unpack privately unpack some things.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I think leaving it at that, though,

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Speaker 2: makes it very universal that a lot of us can

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Speaker 2: speak into, you know, generational pain and things like that

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Speaker 2: and seeking f identity and security and being exposed to

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Speaker 2: things maybe we shouldn't have been.

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Speaker 1: And then you.

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Speaker 2: Take that with a The way that the Lord made

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Speaker 2: me is I'm a sensitive, very aware, feeling person with

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Speaker 2: a brain that gets me into trouble. If I don't

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Speaker 2: give it good things to do, it's a little bit

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Speaker 2: of the little engine that could. And it doesn't want

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Speaker 2: to calm down. It always wants to be reasoning and learning.

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Speaker 2: And I have learned.

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Speaker 1: And I tell my husband, and he knows this about me.

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Speaker 2: You got to put that brain into the good stuff

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Speaker 2: right now, because I if I don't give it that

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Speaker 2: to do, it really does want to do the self

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Speaker 2: destruction stuff.

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Speaker 1: And so.

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Speaker 2: I did not understand that until I had wisdom and

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Speaker 2: went through things.

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Speaker 1: So in my twenties, I was just voraciously.

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Speaker 2: You know, maybe if I get all a's, I'll get

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Speaker 2: more love or security, or feel more rooted or have

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Speaker 2: more identity. Then if I'm the top of my class,

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Speaker 2: you know, maybe that will get me the love or

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Speaker 2: the attention that I'm seeking and looking and looking for

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Speaker 2: my place in the world. And then you go into

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Speaker 2: a high stress job. Teaching is stressful anyway. But I

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Speaker 2: took a job at twenty two twenty three working with

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Speaker 2: inner city at risk kids. I did that for ten years.

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Speaker 2: I do not regret it, but I will tell you,

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Speaker 2: you know, guns on campus, watching people be bloodied, being

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Speaker 2: struck by students, cursed by students, threatened by students, it

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Speaker 2: takes a toll on you, so I think again, though

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to quit. And so that's where the

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Speaker 2: workaholism and the deep sense of pleasing and being in

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Speaker 2: control it just fed into this horrible cycle of trying

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Speaker 2: to get the best test scores and have the best

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Speaker 2: student feedback and being beloved it fed. Now, those things

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Speaker 2: are not bad. That's why I said, it's the shiny

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Speaker 2: side of addiction, because you know, my mind sleeping four

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Speaker 2: hours of night and counting calories and being perfect, perfect, perfect,

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Speaker 2: and yes, yes yes to everybody. You're thinking, well, this

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Speaker 2: isn't hurting anybody, but you're killing yourself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And over time I didn't even know who Kimberly was

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Speaker 2: because at eighteen, my parents moved away about a week

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Speaker 2: after I graduated high school to the mountains. I was

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Speaker 2: in Florida still and I had nowhere to go, so

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Speaker 2: I slept on my friend's couches.

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Speaker 1: I slept.

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Speaker 2: I stayed with my boyfriend and his family, which he

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Speaker 2: ended up being my husband, so they took me in

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Speaker 2: for a while. I leaned very much on Michael, my husband.

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Speaker 2: He was my best friend. He also had things that

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Speaker 2: he was going through too, so it's not like, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're just trying to figure things out, and so hustling

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Speaker 2: from eighteen to twenty eight did not work out well

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Speaker 2: for me, and I ended up having a nervous breakdown

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Speaker 2: at my parents' house one afternoon with my mom right

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Speaker 2: around twenty eight, twenty nine, because I was getting four

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Speaker 2: hours of sleep at night. I weighed, you know, one

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Speaker 2: hundred and ten pounds. I was malnourished, I didn't know

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Speaker 2: who I was, and my body just tapped out. I

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Speaker 2: haven't really talked about this story at all, because ooh,

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Speaker 2: it's a big one. I don't Actually this is the

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Speaker 2: first time I've I've talked about it, so then I

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Speaker 2: never I got counseling. I went on medication for a

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Speaker 2: little while, got off because that was a frightening how

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Speaker 2: it numbed me. One day, I was driving on the road.

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Speaker 2: This is all pre my daughter, by the way, I

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Speaker 2: was married at twenty two with Michael, so this is

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Speaker 2: all happening prior to becoming a mom, Praise the Lord.

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Speaker 2: But I remember driving on the road like home from

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Speaker 2: work one day, maybe twenty nine. At this point, I

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Speaker 2: was on the medication and I literally had a feeling

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Speaker 2: that if I took this wheel and I wrenched it.

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Speaker 2: I don't care, and I sobbed all the way home

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Speaker 2: and I went and I told my husband, like, I

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Speaker 2: come hell or hell, white high water. I have to

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Speaker 2: get off this medication. And I know that it's given

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Speaker 2: me a little more stability and this healing journey, but

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Speaker 2: I am also not caring at all, and so he

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Speaker 2: was there for me. He didn't want me on it anyway,

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Speaker 2: but it was just like, you're terrified, what do I

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Speaker 2: do here? The person that I love, This is what

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Speaker 2: they're saying, she needs, you know what I'm saying. And

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Speaker 2: so we walked me off of that and then I

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Speaker 2: got more. You know, I did better. I kind of rebound.

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Speaker 2: It was still a thing. I still struggle with depression

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Speaker 2: anxiety through my pregnancy, but I was in a healthier

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Speaker 2: position at my tools. And then it was after I

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Speaker 2: was done nursing my daughter that my disease came back

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Speaker 2: and I really went from one frying pan, you know,

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Speaker 2: into the other. And it was through the severe physical

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Speaker 2: illness that it made me face those demons and eventually

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Speaker 2: overcome them. So, you know, feel free at any point

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Speaker 2: to be to pass on a question. But I guess

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Speaker 2: you know it sounds like what you are describing, and

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Speaker 2: you can correct me if I'm wrong. Is you know

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Speaker 2: a type of eating disorder? You're accounting calories?

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Speaker 1: You will?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: And so is did that come from that perfectionism? Like

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Speaker 1: where do you feel like that came? What were the

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Speaker 1: roots of that?

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Speaker 2: So I've struggled with eating disorders, and again, though what's

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Speaker 2: wild is it's even hard for me to say that

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Speaker 2: out loud because it was clouded and always felt secondary

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Speaker 2: to the other monsters, which was the anxiety disorder especially,

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Speaker 2: And so to one extent, I would do the calories

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Speaker 2: and to exercise and to always make sure I was

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Speaker 2: one eighteen on the scale, no more than one twenty

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Speaker 2: five and self flagellation if I went above that. I

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Speaker 2: know that sounds insane because I'm like five six, which

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Speaker 2: is far too tiny, So you know I would I

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Speaker 2: would do that, and that was the perfectionism and drive.

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Speaker 2: But what is frightening is that more of to when

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Speaker 2: my anxiety got so out of control that I had

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Speaker 2: no appetite, So even when I wanted to eat, I couldn't,

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Speaker 2: And there were a lot of times that I would,

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Speaker 2: but my anxiety was so bad that I would get

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Speaker 2: sick afterward, and my body was trained that way.

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Speaker 1: So what.

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Speaker 2: And I know you talk about a lot of nuance

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Speaker 2: on your show, and I think that is really important

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Speaker 2: because there's such a human component, and this is how

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Speaker 2: I feel when I look at the DSM when we're

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Speaker 2: talking psychology. It is a tool and it's helpful, but

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Speaker 2: we shouldn't worship it because it kind of gives us

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Speaker 2: a target of like who has what and why, and

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Speaker 2: gives us language so we could help people. But everybody's

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Speaker 2: story is so specific, and so my binging and purging

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Speaker 2: wasn't because I wanted to do it. It was actually because

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Speaker 2: of the anxiety. And then my body was in the

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Speaker 2: red zone and all of that cortisol was being dubbed

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Speaker 2: into it, and I couldn't keep food down and I

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Speaker 2: had dropped down to about one hundred and five pounds.

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Speaker 2: And that's when my husband, you know, you know, he

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Speaker 2: was already concerned, but at that point he was like,

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Speaker 2: we're in an emergency zone now for you. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: I'm watching you waste away and it's terrifying me. And

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Speaker 2: this has to become like things have to change. This

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Speaker 2: has to become the number one thing where our time

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Speaker 2: and energy goes. I got my weight up, and then

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Speaker 2: I eventually left the public school teaching job and took

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Speaker 2: a job at a small Christian school with much less stress,

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Speaker 2: a much smaller you know, space, less responsibility out the

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Speaker 2: gate because I was running a team at the other

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Speaker 2: one very young and so at thirty, I made that

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Speaker 2: change and I ended up gaining ten pounds my first year,

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Speaker 2: and almost so much of the issues faded away, and

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Speaker 2: my infertility and the miscarriages, I didn't have those anymore,

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Speaker 2: and miraculously we got pregnant at the end of my

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Speaker 2: first year teaching at that new school, so it was

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Speaker 2: a very redemptive season. And now to this day it

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Speaker 2: is really interesting. I'm talking about shattering idols as I

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Speaker 2: always controlled that weight and it was always the thing

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Speaker 2: I struggled with even when I got quote unquote healthier,

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Speaker 2: I still struggle to this day. But the thing is

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Speaker 2: is like, I don't have any of the eating issues anymore.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to be healthy and I'm having to make

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Speaker 2: peace with the fact that I have obviously gained a

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Speaker 2: lot more weight going through what I've been through. So

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Speaker 2: I have to spend every day affirming my own dignity

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Speaker 2: and identity in Christ, in my worthiness for the first

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Speaker 2: time of my life, that it's not tied to weight

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Speaker 2: or to beauty standards. That are impossible. And I certainly

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Speaker 2: can't always keep every promise I make because I'm ill.

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Speaker 2: I can't people, please, I have no capacity anymore for it.

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Speaker 2: I don't have the energy, right. I certainly can't be

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Speaker 2: a workaholic because I have half the capacity I did. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And when I do feel myself going into those addictions,

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Speaker 2: you know, because you know, we always have to be

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Speaker 2: real with ourselves. They're there, right, They're part of the

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Speaker 2: contour of who we are. I'm so limited now that

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Speaker 2: I don't even have the strength to go into them.

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Speaker 2: I could feel myself budding up against them. But the illness,

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Speaker 2: the physical illness, and where I've grown in my faith

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Speaker 2: is it's been a great buffer and a great protection,

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Speaker 2: which is so ironic.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this, So before we move on,

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you this one question. And well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, let me say I'm glad you said

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Speaker 1: what you said about the DSM. So for people who

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Speaker 1: don't know the Diagnostic and Statistic Manual, it's basically the

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Speaker 1: Bible when it comes to you know, psychological mental, mental

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Speaker 1: health issues. And you know, it's funny. I spend the

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Speaker 1: first chapter of my of my book talking about defining

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Speaker 1: and redefining alcoholism, and you know, and the DSM, at

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Speaker 1: least to its credit, changed that definition and how they

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Speaker 1: manage or how they diagnose it. I think specifically because

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Speaker 1: of what you said, they saw that the way that

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Speaker 1: they were they were defining and you know, figuring out

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Speaker 1: if people are quote unquote alcoholics was so binary that

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Speaker 1: it became unhelpful that so many people were falling through

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Speaker 1: the correct so they changed it to a spectrum. And

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Speaker 1: so I think even that critique that you say of

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Speaker 1: the DSM is is is is okay? Right, because like

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Speaker 1: up at twenty thirteen, the DSM when it came to

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Speaker 1: alcohol was the mark.

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Speaker 2: And that's why they're on so many additions, because they're

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Speaker 2: because we're human and we're trying to figure it out.

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Speaker 2: And so there has been more nuance, which is good,

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Speaker 2: but I still think we want to always be aware

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Speaker 2: that we see the human first.

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Speaker 1: So this is a question, and I don't you know,

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Speaker 1: however you answer is how you answer it. But you know,

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Speaker 1: you said, all of this in a sense leads to

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Speaker 1: this nervous breakdown that you have. What does you know?

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Speaker 1: We hear that term what did that look like for you?

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Speaker 1: And I think it can look different for people, but

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Speaker 1: I'm just curious. Yeah, for me, there was the physical failure.

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Speaker 2: My body completely shut down and I weighed far too little.

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Speaker 1: I was not sleeping, you know.

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Speaker 2: And if anybody has ever had an anxiety attack before,

399
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Speaker 2: they are you feel like you're getting thrown off a cliff.

400
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Speaker 2: Some people experience blocking out, some people get sick, some

401
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: people just stare into space and convulse. For me, it

402
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 2: was getting ill, which was what was so dangerous is

403
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 2: it would trigger me me throwing up, and I was

404
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Speaker 2: having Towards the end, I was having an anxiety attack

405
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Speaker 2: maybe five days a week. Oh so I didn't want

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Speaker 2: to live anymore. I didn't know who I was and

407
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 2: it had swallowed me whole, really and I didn't The

408
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 2: really scary thing is what you start to believe about yourself.

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Speaker 1: And to this, I would love to address shame.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because whenever I talk to people i'm helping or

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Speaker 2: like counseling or anybody who's going through this, or if

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Speaker 2: I get an opportunity like this. There's the disease or

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Speaker 2: the addiction or the trauma, and then there's the shame.

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Speaker 2: And I think that we have to address both of

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Speaker 2: them because as long as the blanket of shame is

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Speaker 2: covering whatever it is we're going through, it's going to

417
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Speaker 2: block true healing because of the things we're telling ourselves

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Speaker 2: and the things that we're keeping secret. And you know,

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Speaker 2: the devil loves us in the dark. He he loves

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Speaker 2: for us to think we're a singularity. He loves for

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Speaker 2: us to be alone. So you can just be plagued. Plagued,

422
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 2: you're going crazy, you're broken, no one will love you. Yep,

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Speaker 2: you know you're disgusting if people knew this about you,

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Speaker 2: and it's just ba and it's relentless. So I had

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Speaker 2: that saying that shame track was just on loop in

426
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Speaker 2: my mind, and it was a complete juxtaposition between what

427
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Speaker 2: I was presenting, a happy, shiny go get her, everybody's friend,

428
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Speaker 2: and and those things were true, like in my heart,

429
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Speaker 2: that's who I am. But when you're when you're hustling, right,

430
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Speaker 2: when you're doing that out of shame to feed the monster,

431
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Speaker 2: it it doesn't end well. And so yes, you don't

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Speaker 2: hurt you're not hurting anybody, but you're killing yourself and

433
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 2: bowing down to that. And so that that nervous breakdown

434
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 2: was equal parts a actual physical manifestation. And then it

435
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 2: was unbelievable shame, just going on repeat and between my ears.

436
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 2: And you can't get well if you don't love yourself.

437
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: So that's a good transition point. Bring us now to

438
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: the physical side of things where you are. You know,

439
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: you talk You talked about your body shutting down, you

440
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: talked about getting sick, and so you've now you know,

441
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: you've mentioned earlier that that the physical aspects of what

442
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 1: you're dealing with now with chronic illnesses has really forced

443
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 1: you in a sense to deal with all those other things.

444
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 1: So tell us what what is going on with you

445
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 1: and bring us to what you've experienced and learned.

446
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 2: A right, So okay, and I'll give the cliff notes

447
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 2: version because we don't. I know, you don't want me

448
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 2: to talk your you're off for hours. But so I

449
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 2: miraculously had my daughter. Nobody thought I could. So here's

450
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 2: the thing. I have aggressive stage four endometriosis, which I

451
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 2: just want to put out there first because it is

452
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 2: not just reproductive health issues. Actually, that is the biggest

453
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 2: misnomer for anybody. If I could tell you, if you're

454
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: sitting at stage one, it's still going to impact you,

455
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 2: but it's going to primarily look like just reproductive issues,

456
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: monthly issues, which is very serious in itself.

457
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: Nobody should have to live that way.

458
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 2: But when we run the gamut up to these higher

459
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: level versions, it becomes a systemic disease that behaves a

460
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: lot like cancer. It's not cancer, but it can have

461
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 2: some of the impacts, which is what happened to me.

462
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 2: It grew all over my insides. It attached moreultiple organs,

463
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 2: some of them started to fail, were blocked, so we're

464
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 2: talking severity. So I struggled with in demetriosis, the little SIEO.

465
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: Since I was younger, we now understand that the depression

466
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 2: and anxiety that I was experiencing was actually tied also

467
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 2: to the endometriosis because of systemic inflammation. So my brain

468
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: was inflamed, my body was inflamed, which keeps your stress

469
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 2: hormones up. You're in pain, and so now I understand that.

470
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 2: So and that's why I had infertility issues as well.

471
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,959
Speaker 2: But you know, the average woman doesn't get their diagnosis

472
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 2: for ten years, and mine was that and longer because

473
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 2: you need to have surgery to knowe about it. You

474
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: have to have surgery to confirm it. They can maybe

475
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: see something on scans, but it's not until you actually

476
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 2: have a surgery for confirmation. And that did not happen

477
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: for me until I was thirty six. I had my

478
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 2: daughter at thirty four, and like I was saying, after

479
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: I was done nursing, the disease came back with a

480
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 2: vengeance tumors, cysts, debris, adhesions. The doctors actually who have

481
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 2: operated on me in the Tampa Bay area are the

482
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: best of the best in the country, and they said

483
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: that mine was one of the most severe that they

484
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: have ever seen.

485
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: So I get to be one in a million.

486
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 2: I didn't think it was going to be about that,

487
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: but so I started having severe symptoms and started having

488
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: actually beyond the pain. The pain was horrendous. I started

489
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 2: having difficulty walking and that's what ended up where I

490
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 2: went into the doctor and one thing went to the next,

491
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 2: you know, and one step led to another. And they've

492
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: were seen things that they were concerned about on scans.

493
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 2: At first, they wondered if it was cancer. We got

494
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 2: that looked at it was not, and that's when they

495
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: said that this is stage four indometriosis. We would have

496
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 2: to have surgery to confirm. And you're gonna have to

497
00:30:55,240 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 2: have surgery because the one we're looking at is the

498
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 2: eyes of like I think it was the size of

499
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 2: a golf ball, and it was just getting bigger and yeah,

500
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: on my ovary, and so when I was walking it

501
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: with pole nights start passing out and then obviously I

502
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 2: couldn't I couldn't walk because the debris was on choking.

503
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: My organs and my abdomen.

504
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 2: So I had is a surgery at thirty six, came

505
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 2: back a few months later, had another one. That surgery

506
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 2: was the catastrophic one. I contracted internal sepsis, so not

507
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: something I contracted during surgery. And because I was so

508
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: fit and you know, younger and healthier at the time

509
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 2: when I went into the er, I was sent away

510
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: with sepsis.

511
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: I was.

512
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 2: I had a couple of male doctors who were like,

513
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 2: I could just send you home, and I was so

514
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 2: adamant with them. I said, you will not send me

515
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 2: home to die, and they kind of rolled their eyes

516
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: and then it took an internal or the infectious disease doctor,

517
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: an ID doctor, and he came in and he ran

518
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: my blood cultures and he came back and he's like, yeah,

519
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: you have sepsis. And the nurses told me thank God

520
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 2: for him that he got involved on the scene because

521
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 2: they thought I was anxious, and I said, yeah, I'm

522
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: anxious because I feel like I'm dying.

523
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: And I was.

524
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 2: The nurses said, thank god, you're such a little pistol,

525
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 2: because if this was twenty four hours from now, you

526
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 2: would probably be in the ICU losing limbs and dying.

527
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 2: And they're like, you know, we can't say that with

528
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 2: the doctors around, but my female nurses were just good

529
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 2: on you. I ended up getting sent home too soon.

530
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 2: The STEPSUS came raging back at home. I was rehospitalized

531
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 2: and at this point now they had to put a

532
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 2: large pic line in my arm and send me home.

533
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 2: I was completely bedridden. I was a ghost, and my

534
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 2: husband had to give me my antibiotics up my arm.

535
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: I think it was like two or three times a

536
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: day for a month. And then they were finally able

537
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: to say that they had gotten it out. But at

538
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 2: this point had been raging through me for two months

539
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: on and off, and because of that, I have post

540
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 2: sepsis syndrome. So basically it ruined my mitochondria and my

541
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: cell health, my autonomic nervous system. So my body doesn't

542
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 2: know what to do when I exert myself or when

543
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: I get up the walk, and it doesn't know how

544
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 2: to defend me from illnesses. So I learned how to

545
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 2: walk again. I was in a wheelchair. I fought to

546
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 2: walk again, and then all of it came. I had

547
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 2: to end up getting another surgery after sepsis, and that

548
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 2: was the darkest point of my life because that's when

549
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 2: it was everywhere, and I had to find a cancer

550
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: specialist and he took everything. He took all kinds of

551
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 2: organs and had to reconstruct I mean, and he even

552
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 2: said I was an emergency surgery, and he said that

553
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 2: he regretted not checking the box for video and images

554
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: because it would have been one for the textbooks. And

555
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 2: then it took me about six months to be able

556
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 2: to learn how to walk again after that one, and

557
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 2: then it came back and they had to go in

558
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 2: and reconstruct because I couldn't do some basic things that

559
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 2: I needed to be able to do to live and

560
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: I'll leave it at that. People can fill in the bikes.

561
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 2: And then I had to learn to walk again. And

562
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 2: that was a year and a half ago. I've been hospitalized.

563
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 2: I've been the er since because of my autoimmune issues.

564
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: My body will go into overdrive because it can't clear

565
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,959
Speaker 2: a virus, and the virus can kind of take over.

566
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 2: They can lead to riggers, just really obviously severe few

567
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 2: symptoms that you can't get out of bed. Right now,

568
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 2: I have COVID for the third time in the past

569
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 2: ten months, and I normally take about a month to

570
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 2: get going after I get it. So I just want

571
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 2: to say, and I know I need to talk about

572
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 2: what I've learned, so but that's the bid.

573
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: I'm sorry it was long and and I'm glad to

574
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: be I'm just thank you because I can say that

575
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: I know exactly what you're talking about. Unfortunately, so so

576
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: much of the stuff that you're talking about, I'm shaking

577
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,240
Speaker 1: my head or nodding my head, I should say, because

578
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: my wife, I mean, it's it's you were stage four.

579
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: She just got surgery. You know. When we're recording this

580
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: two weeks ago, stage three, and you know it was

581
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 1: you know, her cyst that they found was the size

582
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 1: of a baseball, same place, you know, same thing when

583
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: you're the pain from walking, the pain, it's just and

584
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: and I know what it's like to you know, come

585
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: around the corner and find your wife on the floor

586
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: because she can't walk because of the pain and the

587
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,720
Speaker 1: spell and her legs give out. And and so I'm

588
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: hoping that people and we're going to talk about what

589
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: you've learned and give them the hope. But if you're

590
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: listening to this and you struggle, maybe not necessary with

591
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: endometriosis or but just any chronic illness, is like I

592
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: want you, like, hopefully you you feel seen because and

593
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: I think so many times and my wife was told

594
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,959
Speaker 1: this at times too, that this is all in your head,

595
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: right or or and and and then when you push

596
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: and you end up at Mayo clinic, you know that

597
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: only accepts point whatever percent of people you're like, You're like,

598
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: I guess it wasn't all in our head, was it?

599
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: You know? And so uh, I just if you're listening

600
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: to this and you're you're struggling with some of that stuff,

601
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 1: like keep fighting, right, keep and keep fighting and telling

602
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: people like no, something is wrong with me, And I'm curious,

603
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: you know, because I think with my wife, what we

604
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 1: found is that the body in a sense was fighting this,

605
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 1: but there was a for us, or I should say

606
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 1: for her, there was, you know, kind of a traumatic

607
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 1: event for you. Do you feel like that nervous breakdown

608
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: in a sense weakened your immune system that then the

609
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 1: body couldn't fight the endometrios or what do you attribute

610
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: I guess the the sepsis came after, but what do

611
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: you attribute, like, was that nervous breakdown kind of a

612
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: in a sense a traumatic event that then started the

613
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: decline or what was it for you?

614
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: I think that there's overlap, but I feel like they're

615
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,280
Speaker 2: kind of bookends to my story. So there's no doubt

616
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 2: that we know from the research now that I think

617
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: women within demetriosis have seven to eight times more likelihood

618
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 2: of having depression, anxiety, mental health disorders because it's chronic inflammation.

619
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 2: Your body is under severe stress that compromises the brain,

620
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 2: It compromises the nervous system and the immune system. So

621
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 2: now looking back, understanding that that disease was growing and

622
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 2: feeding and growing for my adult life, all of this

623
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 2: stuff now makes sense because there was a part of

624
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 2: it that simply felt out of control. So I now know, oh,

625
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 2: this was a comorbidity. This was the dark part. We

626
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 2: didn't know it was existing, right. We were treating my

627
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: depression anxiety as a manifestation of other things. But there

628
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: was an actual physical issue that was creating the perfect

629
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 2: Petri dish for all of this. So and then, you know,

630
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 2: I did a little bit better for a while, but

631
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 2: I still couldn't kick it. And now I know why,

632
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 2: because I had the endometriosis. It was everywhere I was

633
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: in chronic pain.

634
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 1: I wasn't, you know.

635
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 2: And I just learned to tough it up because I

636
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 2: always had problems with my cycle I from when I

637
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 2: was a teenager. I threw up from it, and I

638
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 2: just thought that that's what happened, you know. Back you know,

639
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: you know, I graduated high school in two thousand and one.

640
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: We didn't have the.

641
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 2: Dialogue that we have now. You know, I'm forty two.

642
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 2: Things have changed dramatically in the past ten fifteen years.

643
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 2: When we talk about mental health and women's health. Back then,

644
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 2: nobody was talking about either. So you just deal with

645
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 2: those things in silence.

646
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 1: And by the way, for people listening who don't know,

647
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: especially my male audience and new metriosis, and you can

648
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: correct me on this, but you know, from what I've

649
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 1: come to understand recently is that basically it's the cells.

650
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: The uterine cells basically start reproducing on the outside of

651
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: the uterus and attaching to other other organs and create

652
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: these you know, kind of lesions that then just reak

653
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: havoc and you know, and so you know, they can

654
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: go on the coalon, they can go on the gollbladder,

655
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: they can go on the intestines, the lungs, right, and

656
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: you have to then get a hysterectomy at minimum, And

657
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: like you said, sometimes they go in there and they realize, hey,

658
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: this is so advanced, so spread that they have to

659
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: start really just just taking so much out and sometimes

660
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: they have to cut things and reconstruct things that I mean,

661
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,760
Speaker 1: that was the big fear, you know, for my wife

662
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 1: when she went in, and by God's grace, we didn't

663
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,839
Speaker 1: have to do that, Praise the Lord. But yet I

664
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: know we were prepared for it because they don't know

665
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 1: until they get in. So so you go into surgery

666
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 1: and you're like it could be quote unquote routine or

667
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: it could be I end up literally change for the

668
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 1: rest of my life, not being able to function, like

669
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: like I was going into the surgery and yet and

670
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: yours was that right, having to especially go in go

671
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: in again. And so just just so people are educated

672
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: a little bit, like what's indo Betrios, I didn't know

673
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: my wife. My wife came back a month ago and

674
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 1: she's like, I've Indovitrios. I'm like, what is that? Yeah,

675
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: you know, and it's I mean, it's what I've been

676
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: shocked by, Kimberly, and you are one of these people

677
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: is and I think we had this podcast scheduled before

678
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: my wife went through. This is how many people you know.

679
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,320
Speaker 1: My wife's been open about it. She's a very private person,

680
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: but she has been felt like the Holy Spirit has

681
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: told her to be more open and uncomfortably open because

682
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: she because there were so many people saying you're making

683
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 1: this up, or you're crazy, or you're not you don't

684
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 1: have the pain you have, or it's not as severe

685
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: as you think it is. I mean, I'll just say,

686
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: even right before she got her surgery, she there was

687
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: a male doctor who told her there's no way you

688
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: need pain medication for your you know, for your monthly cycle,

689
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 1: and she's think, you have no idea how painful this is.

690
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, not tent her up, but just you know,

691
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 2: here's an anecdote. When I went into early labor for

692
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 2: my daughter, they hooked me up to the machine and

693
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 2: then when I was just sitting there, cool as a cucumber,

694
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 2: a couple of winces, and the nurse goes, oh, oh,

695
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 2: you're having big contractions.

696
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: I was like, oh I am.

697
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 2: She's like, yeah, look at the monitor and the monitor's

698
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 2: spiking and I'm just sitting there and I look at

699
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 2: my husband. I'm like, you know why that doesn't This

700
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 2: is not touching the endometrios is pain. This is not

701
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: touching it. And that that alone was just such an

702
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 2: illuminating moment of the fact that the pain that I

703
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 2: have endured from this disease and the surgeries is a

704
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:06,240
Speaker 2: ten a ten. Yes, nothing has touched it in my life.

705
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny you say that. The last about

706
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 1: month before my wife got the surgery, there was there

707
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 1: was you know, there was a time and she she

708
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: was literally just doubled over in the bathroom and she said,

709
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: and my wife had both of our kids naturally, So

710
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: no pay medicine, you know, no epidural is nothing. She

711
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: just that's how she wanted to do it. And she said,

712
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: this is worse than childbirth. This is worse than childbirth.

713
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: And it was then that I knew how bad this was.

714
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: Like that put it, that put it into perspective. Me,

715
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: here's a woman who had natural childbirth with both kids,

716
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: and she's doubled over and she's saying, this is worse

717
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: than childbirth. And that's the level of pain that she

718
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 1: went through. And that's the level of pain that that

719
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: you've gone through as well. Absolutely, So Okay, So now

720
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: that we've put that in a sense in perspective for everyone,

721
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: and that'll make sense now, I think both to the

722
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: female audience and the male audience. You've said some incredible things,

723
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 1: you know, at the beginning of this podcast about suffering

724
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: in pain. And you know you said in the beginning

725
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: that that in a sense like this has this suffering

726
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: and this pain has allowed you to to really, for

727
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: lack of a beter room, kick the people pleasing because

728
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: you've had to so explain to us what you've what

729
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 1: you've learned through this in your most beautiful poetic way

730
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: that I know you do.

731
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:52,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean again, this is like a whole book,

732
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 2: and that I hope I can have the capacity that

733
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,879
Speaker 2: the Lord lets me write one day. So again, let's

734
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 2: do the bird's eye view. I would say say that

735
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 2: one of the big takeaways is when you come to

736
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 2: the end of yourself and when you are suffering more

737
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:16,280
Speaker 2: than anything else, that is a make or break moment

738
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 2: where you get to decide do I love the giver

739
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 2: or do I love the gifts the most? And the

740
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 2: Lord already gave us enough of himself they want. He

741
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 2: doesn't owe us anything else. But we become accustomed to

742
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 2: his good gifts, we take them for granted, and we

743
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 2: tie his love and our goodness and even our pride.

744
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 2: We tie it to all the good things that are

745
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 2: going on. But when I was bedridden and lost my

746
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 2: friends and my community and my job, there was gossip

747
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 2: going around that I wasn't really ill, just like awful

748
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 2: things and in a Christian community, which is just something

749
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 2: else I'm having to walk through. And but you know what,

750
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 2: it's grown my relationship with the Lord in such an

751
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 2: intimate way that I realized, what is going to sustain

752
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 2: me sustain me in. This is going to be faith,

753
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 2: love and poetry. It is going to be loving the

754
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 2: Giver and not his gifts. And Tim Keller has a gorgeous,

755
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 2: gorgeous sermon that held me in one of my darkest

756
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 2: nights of my life that it came across and it's

757
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 2: you can find it online. It's called Heman's Cry in

758
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 2: the Darkness and it's on the Psalm I believe it's

759
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 2: Psalm eighty eight that closes with Darkness is my Closest Friend,

760
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:49,399
Speaker 2: and it talks about are you going to as long

761
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 2: as you keep talking to God, that's what matters, And

762
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 2: are you going to cling to him when darkness is

763
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 2: your closest friend? And so I think this is a

764
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 2: roundabout way to say that if you are going through

765
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 2: unbelievable suffering, allow it to bring you to a place

766
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 2: where you seek your Father above all else, and you

767
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 2: will have a transformational experience that no, I don't I

768
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 2: in my forty two years, And of course I know

769
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 2: I'm gonna live in ten and I'm gonna go, oh,

770
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 2: that forty two year old knew nothing, and then I'm

771
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 2: going to live another ten and oh, that fifty two

772
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 2: year old didn't know very much. But what I do

773
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: now know for sure right now, is that suffering, in

774
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 2: some twisted way is one of the greatest gifts to

775
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 2: grow our character in our faith because it brings us

776
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,359
Speaker 2: to the ends of ourselves and any self delusion that

777
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 2: we had about ourselves and our own goodness, it all

778
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 2: fades away, and you get an unbelievable clarity about who

779
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 2: am I going to be? Who what am I going

780
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 2: to believe? And I got to the point where I

781
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 2: had no reason to keep going except for a few

782
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:08,480
Speaker 2: beautiful souls that were in my house, my mother, my husband,

783
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: and my miracle daughter.

784
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 1: And that was the love.

785
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 2: You know, everything burns off and fades away, makeup, jewelry, esteem, accolades, certificates, degrees,

786
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 2: you know, popularity, all of that burns away. It's just dross.

787
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 2: And then the other thing was the poetry, right, and

788
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 2: I got to understand God as an artist. He created

789
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 2: first an unbelievable capacity for love and redemption. And he

790
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 2: came to me in vision, he came to me in poetry,

791
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 2: He came to me in my garden bed and ways

792
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 2: that were just so transformational, and so anybody who's going

793
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 2: through suffering. I would just say, please, don't lose the faith,

794
00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 2: double down, and because you suffering has nothing to do

795
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,479
Speaker 2: with how much God doesn't or does love you. He

796
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 2: loves you immensely, and he's closer and your suffering.

797
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: Than ever. Right, we'll be right back after this. You know.

798
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 1: It's funny. I was thinking in just one of my

799
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: times with the Lord this week, you know, because this season,

800
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,959
Speaker 1: not only have we gone through this with my wife,

801
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: but all of this has happened, you know, so in

802
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: a sense, her her you know, she had an accident

803
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 1: that really started this whole decline for her, weakened her

804
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 1: immune system, you know, the anxiety, the stress, the physical

805
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: you know, broken back, things like that. Then you know,

806
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: the doctors says, like the body started attacking itself and

807
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: shutting and these things start rising to the top. And

808
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: that literally, that accident happened the same month that I

809
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: like that, I'm like, I'm an alcoholic, right, and I

810
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 1: gave I gave up drinking, and and on one on

811
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 1: one hand, I'm like, Lord, thank you, Right, I can't

812
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:30,280
Speaker 1: imagine and neither can my wife. Uh what her walking

813
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: through this with me as a drunk, you know, And

814
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:38,399
Speaker 1: and no doubt right, like seeing her in the state

815
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: that she is and just being able to be having it,

816
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: able to pick up so much more responsibilities around the

817
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: house and and whatnot. You know, if I were drinking,

818
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: it would just be I mean, it would be I

819
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 1: just can't imagine what life would look like. So on

820
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: one hand, I'm like, thank you Lord, right, thank you

821
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: Lord for bringing me to the end of myself that

822
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: now I'm able to be there for my wife. But

823
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: then on the other hand, it's like, and we can

824
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: talk about this too, as your background in counseling is

825
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:13,280
Speaker 1: like I joke that, you know, getting to rock bottom

826
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: was the easy part, Like that that happened on its own.

827
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: It took care of itself. You know, the stone was

828
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 1: rolling down, right. It's then crawling out of that and

829
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 1: the work that you have to do on yourself and

830
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,359
Speaker 1: the and the and the mental health, you know, the

831
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: counseling and just all of that stuff that I'm like, Lord,

832
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 1: can we just like be done with this already? And

833
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: and and to your point, there was just a reminder

834
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 1: to me of like I have become so close to

835
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 1: the Lord in these last two and a half three

836
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 1: years than ever before. You know, and I know there's

837
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: people that listen to this podcast, especially probably my family

838
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: and friends back home that knew me growing up, that

839
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: are like, who the hell is this guy? Right? Yeah?

840
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 1: And you know what I say, I say, who the

841
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 1: hell is this guy? I don't know? Right? And that

842
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,439
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that I don't have outbursts of anger. And

843
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: you know, I say stupid things to my friends, and

844
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: you know we joke about whatever. You know what I mean.

845
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 1: But but man, I can say for sure that they

846
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: this these hard times has brought me to a relationship

847
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,760
Speaker 1: with the Lord that is so sweet that I even

848
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 1: dare I say, I'm like, Lord, if things start going well,

849
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: like I'm a little scared you feel that way? Yeah,

850
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: I know that, Yes, like there's been there has been

851
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 1: such a sweet time that I'm like, if everything we're

852
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 1: going well, I kind of am like looking at myself

853
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: and know myself enough that I'm like, man, i'd be

854
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: quick to just throw him out and be like and

855
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,799
Speaker 1: just rely on myself. And so you say you feel

856
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: that way too.

857
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've even talked about it before that I want

858
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 2: healing like nothing else and I will take it if

859
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 2: the Lord gives it. Trust me, but there is a

860
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 2: double edged word there that I know there by the

861
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 2: grace of God go I Because I've said I'm frightened,

862
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 2: how quickly would I go back to my old ways?

863
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 2: And that I never want to forget this sweetness. And

864
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 2: it's been five years, so it's getting harder for me

865
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 2: to remember life before. And I think it's getting harder

866
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 2: for me sometimes if I'm going to be vulnerable to

867
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 2: have the hope that it will.

868
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: Be different in the future.

869
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 2: I'm not in an emergency area that I was in,

870
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 2: so I thank God for that, but I'm kind of

871
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 2: in this purgatory where I really can't get out the house.

872
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 2: So I'm not in the RS. I'm not having surgeries

873
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 2: in the hospital, praise the word. But I would love

874
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,919
Speaker 2: to be able to get out more and have a life.

875
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,240
Speaker 2: But then at the same time comes busyness and self

876
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 2: sufficiency and distraction.

877
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: And yeah, I hear you. What is the outlook as

878
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: you talk to me right now? For yourself?

879
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,919
Speaker 2: That is the question we all want to answer. For

880
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 2: I am slowly going in the right direction. I do

881
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 2: pt when I can. I think the big thing is

882
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 2: I'm going to start seeing a functional medicine doctor now

883
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 2: that we're out of like emergencies, recovering from surgeries, you know,

884
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 2: getting hospitalized, being on all kinds of medications, trying to

885
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 2: turn off my immune system so it won't attack me.

886
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 2: Well now it's like so depressed that it doesn't do anything.

887
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:54,479
Speaker 2: So we are trying to go on that journey, which

888
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,720
Speaker 2: so Lord willing, we can try to get my immune

889
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:03,839
Speaker 2: system better and my inflammation because another thing that I have,

890
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 2: uh what's the pop prim autoimmune disorders, is an inflammatory

891
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 2: bowel disease.

892
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: So it's not like the IBS. It's actually so much worse.

893
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,840
Speaker 2: It's a constant inflammation and so it's it makes it

894
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 2: a battle with my diet. So dialing in and doing

895
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 2: pretty much everything that we can do to get my

896
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 2: body to calm down and defend me against illness, because

897
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 2: that way I can get mobility back right, and that

898
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 2: way I could get stronger. Because the other thing is

899
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,280
Speaker 2: I've never had a chance since all my bedridden times,

900
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 2: I never had a chance to get a strong new norm.

901
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 2: I haven't had that chance yet. So that's that's what

902
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 2: we're praying for, and that's what we will be praying

903
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 2: for as well. Before we go, I think you know,

904
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 2: I want to I want to relate this all in

905
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 2: a sense to despite all this you said, You've said,

906
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 2: I'm going back to school, you're in the you're in

907
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,799
Speaker 2: the process of getting your doctorate, so you you know,

908
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:14,399
Speaker 2: I think you have an MFA, Is that right?

909
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm an MFA drop out actually, which I feel

910
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 1: like is the best MF. Like, if you're truly like

911
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 1: super legit, Yeah, exactly, then you of course you would

912
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: have dropped out of your Yeah. Yeah, so do.

913
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 2: I'm an MFA drop out And I wear that badge

914
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 2: very bravely though, and I'm happily because I was getting

915
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 2: mocked for my faith and the Lord made it very

916
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 2: clear you can you can chase the world's esteem, or

917
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 2: you can chase me. And I got up and walked

918
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 2: out of a lecture. Uh was very awkward, right in

919
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 2: the middle of one. And I just got up and

920
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:48,840
Speaker 2: walked out because of some of the stuff that the

921
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 2: professor was saying. It was extremely disturbing, and I called

922
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 2: my mom and my uncle and I said, I'm going

923
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 2: to drop out. Because it was a residency where you

924
00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 2: go live there, uh every semester, and then you work

925
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 2: with your professors from afar up in another state, and

926
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 2: my mom and my uncle were stayed over, spending time

927
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 2: together waiting on me, and I called them. My uncle's

928
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 2: a take no nonsense outdoors ben like blood on the knuckles,

929
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 2: like New England or right. He's like, I'll come over

930
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 2: there and get you right now. I said, no, you're not.

931
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 2: I'm a grown woman. I'll finish this residency. Then you

932
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 2: could come get me and I'm not going to go back.

933
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 2: But no, I have my med in English, and then

934
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 2: I have my bachelor's in English, and then I saw

935
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 2: I'm an English professor, and then I'm doing the counseling.

936
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 2: And then my big baby that I have to talk

937
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 2: about outside of my beautiful daughter, is the way back

938
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 2: to ourselves.

939
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: Yes, so please please talk about the way back to

940
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 1: ourselves because I think that I mean, in essence, this

941
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 1: is how I found you is because of that work

942
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: that you're doing through substec but the magazine, So talk

943
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: about the way back to ourselves and how you've incorporated

944
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: all of this stuff, I mean, the English, the God thing,

945
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: the breakdown, the faith, the traumatic chronic illness. Now working

946
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 1: on your counseling degree, how have you incorporated that into

947
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: way back, the way back to yourselves, and what is that? Okay?

948
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 2: So when I had sepsis, and I know this sounds wild,

949
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:24,400
Speaker 2: I was getting fever dreams. And this is before I

950
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 2: lost my job, before I knew I was going to

951
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 2: have three more like two more surgeries after that, before

952
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 2: I knew all of the things that were going to happen,

953
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 2: so it would make it makes no sense. And I

954
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 2: love the mystery of God, and and so I was

955
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 2: getting these images of the mountains, of course, which we

956
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 2: talked about earlier, and I was like, we got to

957
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 2: find a way back to ourselves, Like there's got to

958
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 2: be a way. There was a lot of tension going

959
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 2: on the country, which was really breaking my heart. I

960
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 2: have friends that are Democrats and friends that are Republicans.

961
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 2: Like I'm very I keep very diverse company. I thrive

962
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 2: on that and watching just people just tear each other

963
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 2: up and get more divided.

964
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: And then I'm battling illness.

965
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 2: And so I kept on saying that, and I ended

966
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,439
Speaker 2: up writing this treatise you know, during my illness, which

967
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 2: again is nonsensical, thirty pages of just you know, how

968
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 2: to get back to ourselves with family, with life, you know,

969
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 2: just me writing through this prayer and this plea.

970
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: I couldn't shake it.

971
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 2: And so I was back at work for a little

972
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 2: while before I got ill again and I got COVID

973
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 2: more COVID, and I said to my husband, we bring

974
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:35,840
Speaker 2: my laptop. He's like, oh boy, here she goes. He's like, honey,

975
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 2: you are sick and you have COVID. You just need

976
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:39,959
Speaker 2: to rest. I was like, I know, but I'm gonna

977
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 2: go crazy. Please bring my laptop. He's like, oh, here

978
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 2: we go. So he brings it. He's my biggest fan

979
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 2: that way. He's always supported me, even if there's some

980
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 2: eye rolling because I'm trying to do too much. And

981
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 2: I built a website during my COVID stint back in

982
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, and literally it was like, it's just

983
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 2: going to be a blog and I've told the story.

984
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:01,520
Speaker 2: If fifty people we'll read it, man, that would be great.

985
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 2: What a great outlet. And what's wild is I abstained

986
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 2: and left all social media for like six or seven years.

987
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 2: I meludite to the core. I wanted to be embodied.

988
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 2: I wanted to live a small, private life. I wanted

989
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 2: to focus on my miracle daughter. But I only went

990
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 2: back to Instagram to say, hey, I almost died. I

991
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 2: just wanted to connect with people. This is what the

992
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 2: Lord is doing and the rest is history. And that's

993
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 2: when I know this is a God thing. He gave

994
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 2: me a vision. I ended up losing my job, losing

995
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:37,840
Speaker 2: my community, losing my ability to walk for a prolonged

996
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 2: period of time, and he gave me the energy and

997
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 2: the vision and the heart and all these things. Nothing

998
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 2: is wasted with God, all these things where I thought

999
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 2: I overstayed. Like I was a yearbook advisor for ten

1000
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 2: years at my inner city school, and I'm like, gosh,

1001
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 2: I'm just wasting my time. I was going to go

1002
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 2: into academia. Well, while I was a yearbook advisor, I

1003
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 2: learned to do photography professionally, graphic design professionally, copy editing professionally.

1004
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 2: We ended up winning a bunch of state awards with

1005
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 2: the yearbook. There's a sixty thousand dollars project that I

1006
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 2: ran on my own, all the accounting, book keeping, everything.

1007
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 2: What a waste of time, I thought, this is not

1008
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 2: what I planned for life. Well, guess what all of

1009
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 2: those skills transfer to running a business and to making

1010
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 2: a website and doing graphic design, and then all my writing,

1011
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 2: all my teaching, and then me getting my illness and

1012
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 2: then going and studying my doctorate, and all of it

1013
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 2: was this beautiful concoction that is the way back to ourselves.

1014
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,920
Speaker 2: We have like thousands of people involved now with a

1015
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 2: literary journal, publishing and editing services, counseling. It's just I

1016
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 2: couldn't make it up. Let's just say it like that.

1017
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 2: You know that this is God walking in and just

1018
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 2: doing something wild. It's the mischief of God, as Steven

1019
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 2: Roach says for makers mystics. I love that it's the

1020
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 2: mischief of God. And I literally wake up every day

1021
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 2: and I'm just like, please keep choosing me, because I

1022
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 2: just want to serve. And the reason why again, why

1023
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 2: did I stay in that high school classroom for eighteen

1024
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 2: years and now I've been a professor for about two

1025
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 2: or three?

1026
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 1: Again?

1027
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 2: Did I waste my time staying there so long? No,

1028
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 2: the Lord had to humble me and teach me to

1029
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 2: be a public servant. No, clout, it's not about you.

1030
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 2: It's about these kids. And he had molded my heart

1031
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 2: and excellence for that. In devotion. This is not about Kimberly.

1032
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 2: It's about these kids and now it's the way back

1033
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 2: to ourselves. It anything that he gives me, that is

1034
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 2: my position. And to talk about oh, great work by

1035
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 2: Mark Sayers, it's a I'm gonna share it right now.

1036
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:51,439
Speaker 2: Platforms to pillars. Do we want to be platformed people?

1037
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:52,959
Speaker 2: And I know you talk about this all the time,

1038
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 2: and it resonates with me very deeply. Is it about

1039
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:02,120
Speaker 2: platforming ourselves or is it about being pillars for Christ?

1040
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 2: That we get to be a humble pillar helping to

1041
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 2: uphold something that is so much more important and so

1042
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 2: much more holier, so much holier than we are.

1043
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking back again as we're recording this.

1044
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,959
Speaker 1: I'd seen something yesterday that just upset me so much.

1045
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I'd like to think it was

1046
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:30,680
Speaker 1: righteous anger. Maybe it was seventy five percent righteous anger

1047
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 1: and twenty five percent just anger of just you know,

1048
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 1: I just can't stand Christian influencers. And yeah, and there

1049
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 1: are probably some people who you know, listen to my

1050
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:45,360
Speaker 1: stuff and they look and they're like, well, you have

1051
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 1: this many followers and these many like you're a Christian maybe,

1052
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 1: but I don't want to be. And I I had

1053
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 1: seen something yesterday of just like where it just reeks

1054
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 1: with self aggrandized on the brags and I just wish more,

1055
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 1: I wish more people like you, Kimberly, were the face

1056
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 1: of what it looks like to be a Christian influencer.

1057
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: People so week week and best way possible, you know,

1058
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:24,480
Speaker 1: and and and don't be mad at me for saying this,

1059
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 1: and I guess I can edit it out if you are.

1060
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:30,120
Speaker 1: But like Kimberly is doing this from bed, yeah, because

1061
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 1: she she's had COVID for two weeks and is unhealthy,

1062
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 1: and there was a chance we weren't going to be

1063
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 1: able to do this right. And it's like, you know,

1064
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: the to the Christian influencer that I saw that post

1065
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,440
Speaker 1: yesterday and they're taking videos of their swag bags because

1066
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, all ten of them are you know, got

1067
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 1: tens of millions of followers and and and you know

1068
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 1: they're tagging their merch brands in it. And I'm just like,

1069
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 1: we need more of the people who are doing their

1070
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 1: podcasts from bed because they are just so focused on

1071
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 1: the Lord gave me this message. I'm gonna literally pull

1072
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 1: myself up to do this podcast because I hope that

1073
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:17,840
Speaker 1: it's that it makes more of Jesus. That's what I want.

1074
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 1: And so if you're listening to this, like and you

1075
01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 1: just first of all, Kimberly, where can people go if

1076
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:28,520
Speaker 1: they're listening to this and that resonates with you know,

1077
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 1: all we just said and what you're talking about resonates.

1078
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 1: Where can they go to get the way back to ourselves?

1079
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's easy to find because I think we've

1080
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:41,440
Speaker 2: kept the handle on branding the same across So the

1081
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:44,480
Speaker 2: Way back to Ourselves with the number two and that

1082
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 2: would be the sub stack and the Instagram and the website,

1083
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 2: so the Way backto Ourselves dot Com at the Way

1084
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:55,439
Speaker 2: Back to Ourselves.

1085
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:56,920
Speaker 1: And then the Way back to Ourselves at Substack.

1086
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 2: And then also we have a podcast that just came

1087
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:05,440
Speaker 2: back from season two and really been enjoyed doing that

1088
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:08,440
Speaker 2: and talking to wonderful people. I couldn't do without the

1089
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 2: help of my producer and great friend, Edward Holmes. And

1090
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 2: so that's called The Way Back and you can find

1091
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 2: that on Substack, Apple, Spotify, wherever you can listen. And

1092
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 2: then I have a couple of poetry books that are

1093
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 2: out that one directly chronicles my physical illness and coming

1094
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 2: back to life.

1095
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 1: It's called of Wings and Dirt.

1096
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:34,080
Speaker 2: And then my other one is Exalted Ground, and that

1097
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:38,200
Speaker 2: has more of a forward facing approach, and it's breaking

1098
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:42,800
Speaker 2: things up to lament and to praise and for those

1099
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 2: who create. And so it really ministers the reader of

1100
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 2: the different seasons of life that they find themselves in.

1101
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 1: And where can they get those books?

1102
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 2: That they're on our website, the Way Back to Ourselves

1103
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 2: on Amazon, and then a lot of that is up

1104
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 2: through anywhere else that they're sold online.

1105
01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:03,280
Speaker 1: So Barne, it's a noble et cetera. Yeah, So I

1106
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 1: say all that because if you, if any of this resonates,

1107
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 1: please I'd love for you to check out The Way

1108
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 1: Back to Yourselves and support Kimberly's work because you literally

1109
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 1: are helping her rise from bed and and give the

1110
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 1: message that the Lord has given her. And so Kimberly,

1111
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 1: I just I'm so glad this has been so encouraging

1112
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 1: for me, as you know, my wife and I walk

1113
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:34,720
Speaker 1: this season, and just thank you for the message that

1114
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 1: you're bringing of not sacarine hope, but I think true

1115
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:46,160
Speaker 1: hope of absolutely and that true hope looks like I

1116
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 1: want to be healed. I want this to end. I

1117
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 1: know it may not, and if it doesn't, the Lord

1118
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 1: is still good. And I think that's the hope that

1119
01:07:56,880 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 1: we that we need more. And so I appreciate you

1120
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 1: Amen for bringing that message. Thank you, thank you so much.

1121
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:09,760
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. This is wonderful. You know. I

1122
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 1: think we forget sometimes, even if we know it in

1123
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 1: our heads, we forget in our hearts the idea that

1124
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 1: Jesus said that in this world you will have trouble.

1125
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 1: And that's been true for me, it's been true for

1126
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 1: my wife, it's been true for Kimberly, and I think

1127
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 1: her her perspective is so good, and like I shared

1128
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 1: at the end there, like she's doing this interview from

1129
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 1: bed and I talked with her a little bit after.

1130
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 1: She's gonna allow me to share some clips because I

1131
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 1: told her, if I don't share clips, not as many

1132
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,600
Speaker 1: people see it. And she's like, you know what, not

1133
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: my will, but the Lord's be done. But we really

1134
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,960
Speaker 1: do need more people like her, And I think, in

1135
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,800
Speaker 1: a sense, that's your challenge, that's your call. You can

1136
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 1: change that. Share where you're struggling, Share where you are weak.

1137
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 1: My next tattoo, or I should say, my one of

1138
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 1: many of my next tattoos is I'm going to get

1139
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 1: the Roman numerals twelve seven to ten, and that's because

1140
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 1: of what I think has really become to define what

1141
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:28,880
Speaker 1: has come to define this period of my life, and

1142
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 1: that's Second Corinthians twelve seven through ten, and that's where

1143
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 1: Paul talks about the thorn in his flesh and that

1144
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 1: in his weakness the Lord is made known and if

1145
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:48,840
Speaker 1: it's if it's not, well, it's my life verse, I

1146
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 1: guess you could say, at least for this season, and

1147
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 1: in some ways I think that's Kimberly's as well. So

1148
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: thank you for joining us. If you have any thoughts,

1149
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 1: you can go to as alcoholic dot com and you

1150
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 1: can share them with me. There's a form on my

1151
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 1: website where you can do that. Please go support Kimberly

1152
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 1: and the Way Back to Ourselves And if you like

1153
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 1: this podcast, please rate it. That goes a long way,

1154
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:19,799
Speaker 1: and also be sure to check out lifeaudio dot com

1155
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:25,120
Speaker 1: where more great podcast lifeudio dot com is our partner

1156
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 1: and they make this podcast possible and there's many great,

1157
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 1: many more great podcasts on their website. Love you all,

1158
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 1: We'll talk with you next week.