Speaker 1: Life Audio.
Speaker 2: Welcome to I Wish you could hear this, where we
Speaker 2: explore great stories and simple, proven steps to help you
Speaker 2: thrive in life, faith, and relationships.
Speaker 3: In our research, we've heard hundreds of Hopefield strategies for marriage, parenting, leadership,
Speaker 3: and life that are grounded in science and consistent with
Speaker 3: biblical truth.
Speaker 4: And now you can hear them too.
Speaker 1: I'm Shanti Felton.
Speaker 4: And I'm Jeff Felton.
Speaker 2: If you are a single person under thirty five, or
Speaker 2: you love someone who is, you're not imagining it. A
Speaker 2: major news study shows it really has gotten harder to
Speaker 2: build a good dating relationship today. Researchers are calling it
Speaker 2: a dating recession. But here's the surprising part. The reasons
Speaker 2: behind this actually point to what can work and create
Speaker 2: solutions for any single adult who is interested. We're unpacking
Speaker 2: all of that in this two parts conversation.
Speaker 5: So this is such a crucial topic.
Speaker 3: We know tons of young people who are single and
Speaker 3: would love to be in a relationship, but they often
Speaker 3: just feel helpless in how to make that happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the reason we're doing this is that this
Speaker 2: major research report came out from the Institute of Family Studies, ifs.
Speaker 2: We're going to link to this in the show notes.
Speaker 2: And the researchers did this deep dive into a very
Speaker 2: big and fairly impressive survey.
Speaker 4: And you know these research I.
Speaker 1: Do, they're very good.
Speaker 2: They're they are and women women, And this is Brad
Speaker 2: Willcox's others who have been around for a long time,
Speaker 2: and they did a really really helpful study of single
Speaker 2: young adults and they narrowed down the analysis that we're
Speaker 2: going to be talking about today of about four thy
Speaker 2: five hundred of these single adults who have never before
Speaker 2: been married and who expect to marry and want to
Speaker 2: marry at some point.
Speaker 1: And they asked all these singles about what.
Speaker 2: Their lives were like, like are they dating, what their
Speaker 2: perceptions are of dating, how often they're going out, how
Speaker 2: satisfied they are, and the conclusion of this all this research,
Speaker 2: the first sentence of the report actually has the conclusion,
Speaker 2: which is that young adults today are living in a
Speaker 2: depressed dating economy.
Speaker 3: So depressed dating economy not a depressing.
Speaker 2: R Oh, it might be depressing as well for them
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: So think of it like a recession.
Speaker 2: This is they call it the dating recession, just like
Speaker 2: a recession in the economy slows down the economy activity.
Speaker 1: It makes it harder to find a good job.
Speaker 2: Right, there's a lot of young people today who say
Speaker 2: it's very hard to find a good job because there
Speaker 2: just aren't a lot of good jobs out there. Well,
Speaker 2: a recession in the dating market slows down dating activity
Speaker 2: and makes it harder to find a good significant other.
Speaker 1: It's very similar.
Speaker 2: But the reasons that these researchers found for the dating
Speaker 2: recession also provide a lot of hope because there are
Speaker 2: things they found that these single young adults can do
Speaker 2: that will make a difference.
Speaker 3: So it make a difference by like improving their.
Speaker 2: Improving their odds, improving their ability to find that person
Speaker 2: that they're looking for, or just in general be out
Speaker 2: there dating.
Speaker 3: Okay, so there's a gap right now between desire and
Speaker 3: actual dating activity. Can you give us some numbers on this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the most important one, and then we're going
Speaker 2: to get into the solutions and everything in a minute,
Speaker 2: the reasons and the solutions.
Speaker 1: But here's the setting the stage.
Speaker 2: The most important data point for me that I saw
Speaker 2: is that only about thirty percent of singles who are
Speaker 2: in this key bracket of age twenty two to thirty five.
Speaker 2: These are singles who want say they want to be
Speaker 2: married at some point. They're not already in a committed relationship.
Speaker 2: Only thirty percent of those singles are actually dating, So
Speaker 2: seventy percent are not dating.
Speaker 4: They're on the sidelines.
Speaker 6: They're on the sidelines, to be correct.
Speaker 4: They're not on the field.
Speaker 1: So they're mostly not on the field.
Speaker 2: Now, this doesn't just mean, by the way, that they
Speaker 2: don't have a significant other, like that they don't have
Speaker 2: a boyfriend or girlfriend. Okay, this is much more fundamental
Speaker 2: than that. About three quarters of women and two thirds
Speaker 2: of men said they had not dated at all or
Speaker 2: had only dated a few times in the last year.
Speaker 2: Basically the most single young adults in that age bracket
Speaker 2: twenty two to thirty five who want to be dating
Speaker 2: just aren't.
Speaker 3: You know. This is really I love the numbers hearing
Speaker 3: the numbers on this because anecdotally, I bet you a
Speaker 3: lot of our listeners out there go, yeah, that seems
Speaker 3: to be what we're seeing. It's certainly what we're seeing
Speaker 3: in our kidsplody in our circle.
Speaker 2: It totally is what we're saying we're we have Just
Speaker 2: as an example, just so everybody knows get on the
Speaker 2: same page. We have both sides of the equation in
Speaker 2: our own little family unit. We have a twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: almost twenty six year old daughter who just got married
Speaker 2: and who was dating for the young man for five years.
Speaker 6: Great guy.
Speaker 2: We're so excited for them. That was just a few
Speaker 2: weeks back. And we have a son who is twenty three.
Speaker 4: And who is a great guy.
Speaker 2: Also a great guy, a senior in college. We might
Speaker 2: be slightly biased, but we think he's a great guy
Speaker 2: who has dated, has had a girlfriend before. You know,
Speaker 2: this is something he'd love to be stepping into. But
Speaker 2: it finds it challenging that he's he is definitely in
Speaker 2: his life and the life of his friends.
Speaker 1: This is not just him.
Speaker 2: This is a bunch of these young men who are
Speaker 2: all young Christian men where they see that dating recession
Speaker 2: very personally.
Speaker 3: So they would fit into that two thirds, that sixty
Speaker 3: four percent of men who had not dated or dated
Speaker 3: only a few times correct last year correct.
Speaker 1: Most of his friends now, a few of them he.
Speaker 2: Talks about, like, you know, somebody at his school who's
Speaker 2: a good friend of his, you know, did go out
Speaker 2: on date with this young woman really liked her and
Speaker 2: now their boyfriend and girlfriend, and they had been dating
Speaker 2: more than a year. But that is in his view
Speaker 2: and the view of his friends, the exception rather than
Speaker 2: a rule. And we've so we before we did this podcast,
Speaker 2: we reached out not just to him, but to a
Speaker 2: few other people just to get their perceptions, and they
Speaker 2: tend to do.
Speaker 3: This was not necessarily a scientific.
Speaker 2: This was not a scientific poll, but we wanted to
Speaker 2: see anecdotally.
Speaker 1: What people were saying and whether it.
Speaker 2: Matched what the IFS report found on the dating recession,
Speaker 2: which it did.
Speaker 4: So can I.
Speaker 3: Talk maybe just just a moment to the actual address
Speaker 3: our listeners at you know, just personally, so you know,
Speaker 3: if you or you have a loved one who's single
Speaker 3: or dissatisfied with the dating market, just recognize it isn't
Speaker 3: just you. Yeah, it really is an issue all across
Speaker 3: our culture today. So let me say something to the parents.
Speaker 3: So this is why your son and daughter isn't just
Speaker 3: not trying. It might be easy to say to them, look,
Speaker 3: you just have to put yourself out there. You just
Speaker 3: have to do this.
Speaker 6: I think we might have said that a couple of
Speaker 6: we might have.
Speaker 3: So this hopefully will this this episode will give you
Speaker 3: a little bit more empathy in what is going on
Speaker 3: out there, but also to maybe encourage your kids that
Speaker 3: there are some things that they can that they can
Speaker 3: do proactively.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you are in that dating market or
Speaker 2: want to be, if you're single, just know that even
Speaker 2: though this feels hard, you're really not alone. It's not
Speaker 2: something that's wrong with you.
Speaker 5: You really are.
Speaker 2: Seeing out there this recession in the dating market, and
Speaker 2: there are things that you can do.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Now, now I will before we get into more
Speaker 3: of the information, I will just say on behalf of
Speaker 3: all of the folks out there who are insecure about this.
Speaker 3: I mean sure, Look, Shaunty and I have been talking
Speaker 3: about relations and chips for decades now and doing research
Speaker 3: on this. This for those of you who are watching,
Speaker 3: you're looking at perhaps the guy who was most scared
Speaker 3: of girls all throughout my teenage years and my twenties
Speaker 3: pretty much.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: I tried to overcome it, but there was a deep
Speaker 3: insecurity in that part of my life. So just so
Speaker 3: you know, you're not alone in that. Now let's get
Speaker 3: back to the regular programming. So if people want relationships,
Speaker 3: why aren't they dating?
Speaker 1: So we're going to cover in this podcast.
Speaker 2: We have a part one and a part two because
Speaker 2: there's just too much for just one. There were five
Speaker 2: reasons that really stood out to me. We could have
Speaker 2: made this a five part podcast, to be honest, there's
Speaker 2: so much there.
Speaker 1: But for the sake of time.
Speaker 2: We're going to cover just five of the key reasons
Speaker 2: why people don't seem to be dating that Now, these
Speaker 2: reasons come directly from this massive study of forty five
Speaker 2: hundred singles in this who want to be you know,
Speaker 2: who want to be dating, but largely aren't. This this
Speaker 2: large group of people age twenty two to thirty five.
Speaker 2: For the sake of simplicity, we're just going to call
Speaker 2: them young adults because it's gen z and or you know,
Speaker 2: late millennials. But we're just gonna call them young adults.
Speaker 2: So we're going to cover five reasons why from the
Speaker 2: report and from our own research. We're going to cover
Speaker 2: just two in this part one, and then three more
Speaker 2: in part two, and I will say each of them
Speaker 2: comes with yeah, these are the reasons why these are
Speaker 2: some of the problems, but they also come with quite
Speaker 2: a bit of hope, because once you identify the reasons,
Speaker 2: then you can figure out the action steps to take.
Speaker 2: And I think that there are some pretty clear action steps.
Speaker 3: Okay, So reason one a lack of satisfaction with dating options.
Speaker 4: Yeah, unpack that.
Speaker 2: So this is the dating recession at work, just like
Speaker 2: we said, just like an economic recession. So think what
Speaker 2: happens when you are out there looking for a job
Speaker 2: or you're out there looking for a date. If you
Speaker 2: don't see options coming, if you try, like in a
Speaker 2: dating world, if you put yourself out there on dating
Speaker 2: apps and you don't get any matches at all, you basically.
Speaker 1: Go why bother? Like why am I doing this?
Speaker 2: And it starts to feel so performative. It's like putting
Speaker 2: in your resume for two hundred jobs and knowing that
Speaker 2: AI is screening you out.
Speaker 3: So when I was in high school, when I was
Speaker 3: a teen, when I was in my early twenties, and
Speaker 3: I would ask a girl out and I got the no,
Speaker 3: I don't think so that rejection felt really intense, but
Speaker 3: it was, you know, that was one time in.
Speaker 5: That particular week.
Speaker 3: Whereas in these dating apps, I'm sure you can feel rejection.
Speaker 1: Every kind constantly.
Speaker 3: There's a constant why aren't Why isn't I know that
Speaker 3: nobody's match. I know that people saw my profile, saw
Speaker 3: my picture, but they're not liking me or whatever they
Speaker 3: do in.
Speaker 4: Those dating apps.
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, and.
Speaker 5: That's got to be really demotivating.
Speaker 2: Well, the numbers actually show it is demotivating. And this
Speaker 2: is that lack of satisfaction with the options is essentially
Speaker 2: creating this vicious cycle because if you think why bother
Speaker 2: and then you don't there are, then you don't put
Speaker 2: yourself out there, so that means there's one less person
Speaker 2: out there, and then that happens times, you know, hundreds
Speaker 2: of thousands of people, and that reinforces the idea that
Speaker 2: there are no options because everybody's holding themselves back, and
Speaker 2: so it creates this really really vicious cycle and this.
Speaker 1: Lack of satisfaction.
Speaker 2: There just aren't I just don't see people wanting to
Speaker 2: match with me. I don't see people even in person,
Speaker 2: who want to connect. You start to think, you know what,
Speaker 2: it's just there's just there's just nobody out.
Speaker 3: There, and so I'm just going to share it. I mean,
Speaker 3: our kids, you know, have talked about and use those
Speaker 3: dating apps at times.
Speaker 2: And we should say that our daughter who just got married,
Speaker 2: they matched on Hinge right right, So it worked in
Speaker 2: their case.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and neither of them actually went on another date
Speaker 3: with anyone else in they were both new on.
Speaker 2: And just and they both connected and it just happened
Speaker 2: to work. And we hear from so many young people today. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're the exception right now.
Speaker 3: One of the other things is that you you see
Speaker 3: on these apps is the you know, the the profile,
Speaker 3: the image of the person who's they look perfect. And
Speaker 3: I remember something that because of the way social media
Speaker 3: was ordered and these platforms, I remember something that our pastor.
Speaker 4: When we were living in New York, Tim.
Speaker 3: Keller said, and he said something to the effect of, look,
Speaker 3: I know you all out there and when you're trying
Speaker 3: to meet other people and everything, and quite frank you
Speaker 3: put your best foot forward. I know that some of
Speaker 3: you have been on covers of magazines.
Speaker 1: Yeah this is New York, this was New York.
Speaker 3: I know that some of you are on these covers
Speaker 3: of magazines. And let me just say, I know you.
Speaker 3: You don't look like the person on the cover of
Speaker 3: that magazine. And it creates this artificial image that really
Speaker 3: isn't reality, but it could lead to a dissatisfaction with.
Speaker 2: The option exactly with the real options. It used to
Speaker 2: be when Tim Keller was talking about it, the only
Speaker 2: issue was photoshop, right, Like you could photoshop the pictures. Well,
Speaker 2: now you can create a whole new person with AI,
Speaker 2: and you can certainly perform, and the problem is everybody's
Speaker 2: gotten burnt by the performance and feeling like I have
Speaker 2: to perform and it's not real and I'm not matching
Speaker 2: with anyone anyway, which just leads to this pulling back
Speaker 2: and the dating recession and the lack of satisfaction with
Speaker 2: the dating options. Now, one of the things that was
Speaker 2: actually really interesting in this in this study that I
Speaker 2: actually found encouraging, Okay, because we need to also move
Speaker 2: to what do you do about it?
Speaker 1: What's the hope here.
Speaker 2: Is to recognize is that if you will continue to
Speaker 2: try to put yourself out there, even if you don't
Speaker 2: feel like it, you know, and we're going to talk
Speaker 2: about more how do you do that in a minute,
Speaker 2: But if people will continue to put themselves out there,
Speaker 2: be aware that unlike the myth that most people are
Speaker 2: just looking for hookups anyway, So again, why bother? The
Speaker 2: data actually found something very different in these young adults
Speaker 2: in this twenty two to thirty five year old Cohort.
Speaker 2: These individuals that they were polling, they found that they
Speaker 2: significantly were interested in significant relationships and real emotional connection.
Speaker 2: So just a couple of numbers just to help you
Speaker 2: kind of debunk in your mind when you're thinking of
Speaker 2: putting yourself out there that you know it's not going
Speaker 2: to matter anyway because everybody just wants a hookup and
Speaker 2: it's not true.
Speaker 1: So here's some real numbers.
Speaker 2: Eighty three percent of women and seventy four percent of
Speaker 2: men actively wanted the point of dating to be focused
Speaker 2: on creating the serious relationships. Like the culture of dating
Speaker 2: that they were looking for was not just dating to date.
Speaker 2: Eighty three percent of women seventy four percent of men,
Speaker 2: so basically, you know, high seventies, like roughly eighty percent
Speaker 2: on average, really really wanted not to just date to date.
Speaker 2: They wanted the point of dating to be focused on
Speaker 2: eventually moving towards marriage. Now, maybe not in you know,
Speaker 2: any one individual relationship, because you got to start somewhere
Speaker 2: and it's casual and all of that, but that's what
Speaker 2: they were actively looking for in a dating culture. And
Speaker 2: the other thing that I thought was really encouraging is
Speaker 2: also about eighty percent of both women and men were
Speaker 2: really looking to create true, like emotional deep connection ultimately
Speaker 2: again not just casual hookups.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's that. That is encouraging.
Speaker 1: I hope that helps people get out there.
Speaker 4: It's true.
Speaker 3: So so although this cohort the singles aren't dating much
Speaker 3: and they wish they were, they're they're they're wanting real
Speaker 3: connection and real commitments.
Speaker 4: So I agree that's that that is encouraging.
Speaker 5: So let's let's bump to reason number two.
Speaker 2: Can you absolutely because this is going to take sort
Speaker 2: of the book of our time? Reason reason number two
Speaker 2: That was to me, one of the most important findings
Speaker 2: of this entire study is that people just lack some
Speaker 2: important dating skills.
Speaker 3: And that that shouldn't be surprising to any of us
Speaker 3: because I honestly don't ever remember anyone ever coaching me.
Speaker 3: And that's how to days on, you know, how to
Speaker 3: win friends and influence people, so to speak, So how
Speaker 3: to go about that? And I think I just I
Speaker 3: learned it, or I fumbled into it, or I got lucky.
Speaker 2: Well, and we had the advantage of fumbling into it
Speaker 2: in an era where the only option for practicing was
Speaker 2: in person, where you learn those skills better. Today, a
Speaker 2: lot of people are trying to learn that skills in
Speaker 2: what is primarily a social media market where you're not
Speaker 2: necessarily real. And so what the researchers at the in
Speaker 2: the IFS report found is that there's some pretty foundational
Speaker 2: skills that you actually need when you're in the dating market,
Speaker 2: interpersonal skills. Both that IFS report and our own research,
Speaker 2: I think our own conversations over many years with young
Speaker 2: adults has identified that a lot of these young adults
Speaker 2: just don't feel confident in those skills. They don't have
Speaker 2: them and or they don't feel confident in them at
Speaker 2: the level that they want. So that's another reason they
Speaker 2: hold back, or just practically, it's another reason they just
Speaker 2: aren't successful. And so that was about only one third
Speaker 2: of the survey takers felt pretty confident in those skills.
Speaker 1: Two thirds did not.
Speaker 2: So here's a couple of numbers with a few specific skills,
Speaker 2: just because I'm a data nerd and I just want
Speaker 2: to share this because I thought it was interesting. So
Speaker 2: almost seventy percent of young adult men and almost eighty
Speaker 2: percent of the women said they didn't have confidence in
Speaker 2: that pretty basic skill of being able to approach somebody
Speaker 2: they were interested in.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry I got to jump in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, this would have been you right back.
Speaker 2: In the day.
Speaker 4: Stuff.
Speaker 3: And now I'm going to talk to if I can
Speaker 3: to the older guys out there or the older women
Speaker 3: out there. Percent of young men, eighty percent of young
Speaker 3: women said they didn't have confidence in those skills. Where
Speaker 3: could they get that confidence and perhaps those skills? I mean,
Speaker 3: it's the generation that went ahead of them. We are
Speaker 3: always thinking, how can we reach the next generation? Well,
Speaker 3: have something clearly, the gospel is what we ultimately want
Speaker 3: to reach them with. But if you will take your
Speaker 3: time and gather a group of young men and young
Speaker 3: women with all you have to do is say this
Speaker 3: is what we want to do, what we want to accomplish.
Speaker 3: Would this meet a felt need for you. I've got
Speaker 3: a buddy who once a week he has a fire
Speaker 3: pit at his house and he invites young men to
Speaker 3: come over, sit around the fire pit. They drink a beer,
Speaker 3: they maybe cook.
Speaker 6: A sticky lost people, maybe lost a few people.
Speaker 3: But it is what he does and it makes these
Speaker 3: young men. They love this guy.
Speaker 6: And he's learning and mentored.
Speaker 3: Exactly, and they're in all stages of some have faith,
Speaker 3: some don't. But he's just pouring into them skills for life.
Speaker 3: And we can do that. And you want to draw
Speaker 3: people to have a relationship with you offer these skills well.
Speaker 2: And it also strikes me that offer to bring together
Speaker 2: young people, men and women together, like how many churches
Speaker 2: today have a young.
Speaker 1: Adults singles group?
Speaker 2: Probably not as many as back when we were right
Speaker 2: single And okay, maybe there's a couple that feels led
Speaker 2: to help start something like that and be kind of
Speaker 2: the adults in the room, so I speak, and I
Speaker 2: don't mean to be offensive to those of you who
Speaker 2: are in you're probably thirties, are like, I'm the adult
Speaker 2: in the room, but for the sake of mentoring the
Speaker 2: singles to pull together those opportunities. There's so many different
Speaker 2: ways of doing that that we don't have time to
Speaker 2: get into. But this is something that you and I
Speaker 2: have been thinking about how do we help people? And
Speaker 2: we'll get into that in a second. Let me, Can
Speaker 2: I go back to the data in or numbers? No, No,
Speaker 2: it's fine. So what we were just talking about was that,
Speaker 2: on average, about seventy five percent said that they didn't
Speaker 2: have confidence in approaching someone they were romantically interested in,
Speaker 2: so most men, most women sixty three percent said they
Speaker 2: didn't really trust their judgment when it came to choosing
Speaker 2: a dating partner, like I just don't know that I
Speaker 2: know who you are and I don't know how to
Speaker 2: how to know kind of thing. Now sixty six percent,
Speaker 2: so exactly two thirds said they also didn't really have
Speaker 2: the confidence in their abilities to kind of discuss their
Speaker 2: feelings with a date partner, which is obviously a huge
Speaker 2: part of opening up.
Speaker 3: It is, and I gotta just tell you it comes
Speaker 3: from experience, It kind of comes from practice. Yeah, none
Speaker 3: of us know these things. Well, I don't want to
Speaker 3: say none, but very few know these things innately. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you just learn to practice practice you fail, and yeah
Speaker 3: you move.
Speaker 2: And in part two, we're going to talk about the
Speaker 2: fact that people are holding back also because we're I'm
Speaker 2: worries about failure.
Speaker 1: Now, this one was interesting.
Speaker 2: Sixty four percent of the respondents said they worried about
Speaker 2: their ability to.
Speaker 1: Pick up on social it's interesting on.
Speaker 2: Dates, like literally, again, so much has been filtered through
Speaker 2: a screen that when you're sitting down in person, you
Speaker 2: just a lot of people just haven't had as much practice.
Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting. I was listening to a podcast
Speaker 3: just yesterday with Arthur Brooks.
Speaker 4: Arthur Brooks, who's you know, he's kind of the happiness guy.
Speaker 3: You know, he used to be the head of the
Speaker 3: American Enterprise Institute. Now he's a professor at Harvard And
Speaker 3: Arthur Brooks was talking about a new book.
Speaker 4: That he has coming out called The Meaning. I think
Speaker 4: it's the Meaning of Life.
Speaker 3: But anyways, in that he talked about something and he said,
Speaker 3: you know, for because of our social media platforms, because
Speaker 3: of our screens, we many young people find themselves in
Speaker 3: a place of receiving information, of it coming to them,
Speaker 3: coming to you, and not necessarily interacting with that that
Speaker 3: information like you do in what you have to do
Speaker 3: in an in person setting. Yes you're receiving things, but
Speaker 3: you're also then responding to it in a way getting more.
Speaker 3: So that's where they don't you just that you're not
Speaker 3: practiced in seeing those cues.
Speaker 2: It's interesting talking about you know what we do about this.
Speaker 2: One of the things that this brings up in my
Speaker 2: mind is that last weekend, not at the moment we're recording.
Speaker 1: This, at the very very beginning of April.
Speaker 2: I don't know when this is gonna actually drop, but
Speaker 2: last weekend, just a few days ago, you and I
Speaker 2: were up at Harvard, back up at Harvard the old
Speaker 2: stomping grounds for a conference for Christian alumni of Harvard
Speaker 2: called Faith and Veritime.
Speaker 6: Which you spoke at, which which I spoke at.
Speaker 2: You're on the board of this this group, and one
Speaker 2: of the other speakers on the one of the very
Speaker 2: first sessions, he made such an interesting point about the
Speaker 2: fact that you know, back in the day, the thing
Speaker 2: that brought everybody together, you know, if you think of
Speaker 2: like the Industrial Revolution, you know, it was techniclogy was
Speaker 2: like the key thing was like pulling everybody together. And
Speaker 2: then technology kind of you know, you built all the
Speaker 2: as many factories as you were going to build build,
Speaker 2: and then suddenly, oh, it's the service economy, and now
Speaker 2: it's customer service and uh, and then it became experiences,
Speaker 2: you know, that pull people together. And he basically is
Speaker 2: making the point that in today's age, especially as we
Speaker 2: have moved through social media and now into the age
Speaker 2: of AI, he said, the thing that's gonna be crucial
Speaker 2: is presence. That's what people are longing for not just
Speaker 2: customer service, not just experiences, not just you know, good technology,
Speaker 2: but the power of in person presence. And I think
Speaker 2: that activates again back to what we were saying, is
Speaker 2: for us to look for opportunities to have actual presence
Speaker 2: rather than relying on the quick fix, which isn't actually
Speaker 2: a fix of social media and dating apps.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Can I talk just a little bit about the skills
Speaker 3: building stuff.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's all related.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'm just going to talk from the young
Speaker 3: guys perspective because that's kind of where my heart is
Speaker 3: and that's what I see.
Speaker 4: For sure, I'm exposed to.
Speaker 3: So oftentimes there are folks out there who are on
Speaker 3: the social on the Internet who are trying to influence young.
Speaker 6: Men, who are trying to help them how to navigate, how.
Speaker 2: To navigate the dating world and whatsould look like.
Speaker 3: And there's lots of lots of folks who are trying
Speaker 3: to do that, and they've kind of all been glump
Speaker 3: clumped into the manosphere or whatever, and you know, and
Speaker 3: there are a lot of things with that group that
Speaker 3: I find really objectionable with some of the influences.
Speaker 4: Influencers in that group.
Speaker 3: But some of the things, even the ones who I
Speaker 3: think are totally objectionable, some of the nuggets core truths. Now,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to tell someone to listen to these
Speaker 3: influencers because I think there's enough bad that can that
Speaker 3: can lead them into wrong decisions and wrong understandings of
Speaker 3: women or of themselves that it's it's not worth the game.
Speaker 3: But there are some things that I think are true
Speaker 3: interesting of some of the skills that they have that
Speaker 3: they're trying to build it and I'm just gonna paint
Speaker 3: in really broad pictures. They're oftentimes telling young men that
Speaker 3: you need to be working on yourself, okay, which is
Speaker 3: pretty good. You need to build you know, your physical,
Speaker 3: your financial, your your well being in all of these
Speaker 3: different things, okay, so that you are more.
Speaker 4: Attractive to a woman.
Speaker 3: It feels somewhat transactional.
Speaker 2: Which is, you know, okay, if they're getting a growth
Speaker 2: mindset exactly.
Speaker 1: But it depends on what they're learning as part of
Speaker 1: the worth right.
Speaker 3: But oftentimes these kind of influencer groups tend to have
Speaker 3: a pretty low opinion of women. Really, Yeah, they tend
Speaker 3: to think of I don't either, but I've read enough
Speaker 3: articles on it to kind of have an understanding, at
Speaker 3: least in broad strokes. But the other things that that
Speaker 3: we're probably talking about is that they say that, you know,
Speaker 3: what the women really want is the alpha male, the
Speaker 3: guy who's dominant, the guy who knows what he wants
Speaker 3: and takes it. And now, while I disagree with that
Speaker 3: broad stroke, there is something that we found when we
Speaker 3: did our research on the book for young men only,
Speaker 3: was that an appealing quality that women said actually wanted
Speaker 3: was self confidence, but without being cognit.
Speaker 4: Without being cogny.
Speaker 3: It was that self confidence that I kind of know
Speaker 3: who I am, I know where I'm going, and I'm
Speaker 3: working toward that. That is appealing, but it can easily
Speaker 3: be twisted.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And and one other skill that you know, I don't
Speaker 3: hear the influencers talking about, but we found in that
Speaker 3: research was that women, young women loved the guy.
Speaker 4: Who was funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sense of humor. That was of humor that ended
Speaker 2: up being I think the top one. I think it
Speaker 2: was sense of confidence and sense of humor and thoughtfulness.
Speaker 3: Now here's the thing that was shocking me in that research,
Speaker 3: and I'll just do a quick segue into it, was
Speaker 3: that I had taken the opinion I had thought that
Speaker 3: they would have chosen the young women on the survey
Speaker 3: would have chosen a buff body, handsome face, and rich.
Speaker 6: Yes, we gave them a bunch of different.
Speaker 3: We gave them and those were near the bottom of
Speaker 3: the list. The ones that were at the top were
Speaker 3: ones that someone wasn't necessarily born with. They were skills
Speaker 3: that could be developed. And so that's I guess my
Speaker 3: word to the young guys out there these your future
Speaker 3: isn't set because of what family you were born in
Speaker 3: or you know, your genetic makeup. None of that is
Speaker 3: settled on whether or not you are going to find
Speaker 3: a mate for life. There are skills that you can
Speaker 3: develop here.
Speaker 2: And you know what, These things go together because if
Speaker 2: the skills are built, guess what, you'll be more confident, right,
Speaker 2: And that is something that is really at the heart
Speaker 2: I think of this dating recession is that with this
Speaker 2: lack of confidence, it lends itself to people just kind
Speaker 2: of pulling back. We see this so much not just
Speaker 2: in you know, the kids in our family over the years,
Speaker 2: but but also in their friends and in this younger
Speaker 2: generation in the numbers. And so that's the good news
Speaker 2: here is that you can learn those skills. It reminds
Speaker 2: me of when our daughter was playing volleyball.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: One of the.
Speaker 2: One of the statements that many coaches would make is
Speaker 2: like some girl would come in without any experience at all,
Speaker 2: but she was six foot tall, right, And the coach
Speaker 2: is like, I can coach skill. You can't coach height,
Speaker 2: but I can coach skill. And it's kind of that idea,
Speaker 2: like you may come in feeling like you are who you.
Speaker 1: Are, I just don't know how to do this stuff.
Speaker 2: Well, guess what you can learn that for example, And
Speaker 2: I'll just give a couple of examples. For example, one
Speaker 2: of the things that is a huge deal is learning
Speaker 2: how to listen, right, learning how to ask good questions
Speaker 2: of someone about them about their life, and then actively
Speaker 2: learning how to listen to them and absorb what they're
Speaker 2: saying and ask related questions back. That one skill, which
Speaker 2: is actually something that people almost naturally learned years ago,
Speaker 2: isn't being naturally learned anymore on today's social media age.
Speaker 2: And honestly, it's also that skill has been degraded just
Speaker 2: because of texting, right, because you don't have to listen
Speaker 2: over text in the same way. So that's one set
Speaker 2: of skills. Another set of skills is actually just knowledge based. Like, honestly,
Speaker 2: we had.
Speaker 1: So much fun.
Speaker 2: You mentioned the free young men Only study, So our
Speaker 2: studies fore young men only for young women only, of
Speaker 2: young women and young men, and these were all these
Speaker 2: were ages fifteen to twenty one. We weren't dealing with
Speaker 2: the age that we're talking about here in this podcast,
Speaker 2: so these were mostly high school in college age. But
Speaker 2: we did find that there were a lot of aha
Speaker 2: moments and a lot of young men and young women going,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I've been doing it all wrong, right,
Speaker 2: Like I didn't realize, for example, that when I was
Speaker 2: teasing a guy and kind of coming up with a
Speaker 2: little snarky remark and the witty comeback and whatever that
Speaker 2: you just love doing on in person or on social media,
Speaker 2: that you, as a young woman, you're sending a signal
Speaker 2: to a guy like he might think that's hilarious, he
Speaker 2: might think it's funny, but he's not going to trust you.
Speaker 2: He's going to kind of pull put a little wall
Speaker 2: around his.
Speaker 3: Heart with you.
Speaker 2: So stuff like that that you just didn't know, Like
Speaker 2: you didn't know that on the inside, guys had such
Speaker 2: a tender heart and so much insecurity and self doubt.
Speaker 2: And if you speak to that person rather than the
Speaker 2: confident looking person standing in front of you, well, guess what,
Speaker 2: you have a lot more opportunity to actually have a
Speaker 2: heart opened to you. I can still remember the reactions
Speaker 2: of a group of young women that I was talking to.
Speaker 2: They were all, you know, early twenties. And I had
Speaker 2: just just a few minutes before done an interview with
Speaker 2: a young guy who was also in his early twenties,
Speaker 2: and I asked him, what's the most attractive quality? That
Speaker 2: the thing that you find by far the most attractive
Speaker 2: in a woman other than the way she looks. And
Speaker 2: he didn't even hesitate. He said, it's whether I feel
Speaker 2: like she admires me. That's incredibly attractive because it speaks
Speaker 2: to that inner question that a lot of women don't
Speaker 2: even know that he has, that men have. That's an example.
Speaker 2: Now obviously that can go overboard. We're not talking about that,
Speaker 2: but we're talking about understanding and speaking to the inner heart,
Speaker 2: which is what we did with for the adult set
Speaker 2: for women only and for men only, and the research
Speaker 2: projects on men and women.
Speaker 1: Which we'll put in the show notes. As well.
Speaker 2: So, Jeff, you and I as we kind of we
Speaker 2: have to wrap this up. We're you and I are
Speaker 2: actively pondering what to do about this because this shows
Speaker 2: this huge need need out there and what can we
Speaker 2: do to help singles build these dating skills.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're brainstorming.
Speaker 3: We are brainstorming it and you know, would love.
Speaker 6: To We're open to ideas exactly.
Speaker 3: You know, fortunately God has given us a plat form
Speaker 3: that we can speak into certain things to an audience.
Speaker 3: So and with some research, with some research, So for
Speaker 3: anyone out there, any of our listeners you know in
Speaker 3: the show notes will put email address.
Speaker 2: Well they can just I'll just say it right now,
Speaker 2: web contact at Shaunty dot com. Yeah, that's that is
Speaker 2: the email that if you have ideas or if you'd
Speaker 2: be interested in hearing about what we eventually come up
Speaker 2: with and whatever we.
Speaker 6: Create reach out there, will put you on our.
Speaker 2: List email web contact at Shaunty dot com will put
Speaker 2: you on our list and you'll be notified once we
Speaker 2: figure it out. Like live events, virtual events, cohorts.
Speaker 5: Where people can please ideas, yes, give us.
Speaker 1: Your ideas, yes, exactly.
Speaker 2: So this topic of a dating recession and what to
Speaker 2: do about it is so important. We didn't want to
Speaker 2: try to create this into one episode, So we're going
Speaker 2: to pause and we're going to come back next time
Speaker 2: to continue the conversation in part two. Please don't miss that,
Speaker 2: and we have three more reasons and things that you
Speaker 2: can do if you were yes, And.
Speaker 3: I think we'll be able to share some of the
Speaker 3: feedback that we've gotten from people in their twenties or
Speaker 3: third correct who have already said here's what I'm experiencing.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, So a little more of the on the
Speaker 2: ground application for if it's you, if it's your adult kids.
Speaker 2: So don't miss that Part two. If you are not
Speaker 2: a subscriber to the podcast, please subscribe now so you're
Speaker 2: notified when part two drops. And if you know someone
Speaker 2: who might be interested in this conversation, please share this
Speaker 2: episode and tag us on all your social media channels.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to I wish you could hear this.
Speaker 2: Remember to subscribe to our podcast, and as always, today's
Speaker 2: audio or video link to a friend, counselor, or pastor
Speaker 2: who would be encouraged. I just want to take a
Speaker 2: second to thank the team at Life Audio for their
Speaker 2: partnership with us on the podcast. If you go to
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