1 00:00:02,630 --> 00:00:03,590 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:04,410 --> 00:00:07,110 Speaker 2: Hey there, welcome back to the Compare To Podcast. 3 00:00:07,170 --> 00:00:07,970 Speaker 1: I'm Heather Creekmore. 4 00:00:08,030 --> 00:00:11,789 Speaker 2: I'm so glad you're watching or listening today. Today, we're 5 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:16,380 Speaker 2: going to have a fun conversation about a topic you 6 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,220 Speaker 2: might not think a lot about, but it's so important. 7 00:00:19,900 --> 00:00:24,259 Speaker 2: And the topic is delight. What does it mean to 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,730 Speaker 2: delight in God? What does it mean to even consider 9 00:00:27,770 --> 00:00:32,050 Speaker 2: the fact that God delights in you? That word delight, 10 00:00:32,090 --> 00:00:38,050 Speaker 2: it sounds so, I don't know, freeing and joyful and light. 11 00:00:39,130 --> 00:00:39,970 Speaker 1: And yet, I. 12 00:00:41,470 --> 00:00:44,050 Speaker 2: Don't know, maybe you had a reach for someone listening today. 13 00:00:44,130 --> 00:00:45,510 Speaker 2: I know it's felt that way for me. Today, my 14 00:00:45,550 --> 00:00:48,809 Speaker 2: guest is Stephanie Rousseau. You're going to love her accent. 15 00:00:49,070 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 2: She's a good friend of mine. And she runs this 16 00:00:52,850 --> 00:00:56,660 Speaker 2: ministry called Gospel Spice. She's a Bible teacher. She's an author. 17 00:00:57,890 --> 00:01:00,490 Speaker 2: And she's going to talk to us today about how 18 00:01:00,570 --> 00:01:05,430 Speaker 2: we embrace this topic of delight and really what it 19 00:01:05,490 --> 00:01:08,569 Speaker 2: looks like to live a life where we can delight 20 00:01:08,610 --> 00:01:20,539 Speaker 2: in God and feel his delight in us. Stephanie, welcome 21 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:22,819 Speaker 2: to the Compared To Podcast. Hi, Heather. 22 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: It is so much fun. So delightful, if I may say, 23 00:01:25,940 --> 00:01:26,979 Speaker 1: to be with you today. 24 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,810 Speaker 2: Well, let's start at the beginning. You've been on the 25 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,450 Speaker 2: show before, but for those who don't know you, you 26 00:01:34,530 --> 00:01:39,410 Speaker 2: run this ministry called Gospel Spice, which at first blush 27 00:01:39,490 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 2: might be like, what does that mean? Spice? Like what? 28 00:01:45,100 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: So can you just kind of like explain like, okay, 29 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 2: what does Gospel Spice mean? Like what are you trying 30 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 2: to say there? And does this connect to Delight? 31 00:01:53,230 --> 00:01:55,230 Speaker 1: Oh, such a good question. And you have no idea 32 00:01:55,290 --> 00:01:58,010 Speaker 1: how many people do ask me what this means, because 33 00:01:58,650 --> 00:02:01,830 Speaker 1: I often get stuff about, is it a cookbook? No, 34 00:02:01,910 --> 00:02:02,370 Speaker 1: it's not. 35 00:02:02,730 --> 00:02:03,170 Speaker 2: Or is it. 36 00:02:03,170 --> 00:02:04,890 Speaker 1: Related to, you know, sex? 37 00:02:05,470 --> 00:02:06,230 Speaker 2: No, it's not. 38 00:02:06,780 --> 00:02:09,459 Speaker 1: I get those a lot. What it is, is honestly, 39 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: is I love good food. And what I realized is 40 00:02:12,860 --> 00:02:16,460 Speaker 1: that when we want to taste and see that the 41 00:02:16,500 --> 00:02:19,180 Speaker 1: Lord is good, that's, you know, it's almost a command 42 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,540 Speaker 1: in scripture. Taste and see. It's an invitation at the 43 00:02:21,590 --> 00:02:25,100 Speaker 1: very least. What does that look like? And oftentimes we 44 00:02:25,180 --> 00:02:29,260 Speaker 1: have grown so familiar with scripture, with the message of 45 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,100 Speaker 1: the gospel, because we are immersed in it, because we 46 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: read our Bible, because we go to church, because we 47 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,750 Speaker 1: have Christian friends, that we have really kind of forgotten 48 00:02:37,970 --> 00:02:43,649 Speaker 1: how spicy the gospel is in the sense of how 49 00:02:44,950 --> 00:02:48,510 Speaker 1: relevant and how it's going to shake our spiritual taste buds. 50 00:02:48,830 --> 00:02:52,830 Speaker 1: It's the last, the furthest thing from boring or tasteless. 51 00:02:52,870 --> 00:02:56,590 Speaker 1: And oftentimes I find myself with a faith that feels 52 00:02:56,730 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: a little stale and boring and tasteless and flavorless. And 53 00:03:01,530 --> 00:03:04,180 Speaker 1: when you look at Jesus, I mean, he enjoyed good food. 54 00:03:04,300 --> 00:03:07,559 Speaker 1: He enjoyed company of his people. And so how do 55 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,420 Speaker 1: we recover the true flavors of the gospel so that 56 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,989 Speaker 1: we can really taste and see that the Lord is good? 57 00:03:14,090 --> 00:03:17,410 Speaker 1: And in a way that doesn't feel cliche, that feels 58 00:03:17,850 --> 00:03:22,230 Speaker 1: almost a little disruptive. Maybe that's why I chose gospel spice. 59 00:03:22,290 --> 00:03:24,709 Speaker 1: It feels a little disruptive, but that's on purpose. I 60 00:03:24,730 --> 00:03:26,989 Speaker 1: think the gospel is meant, the good news of what 61 00:03:27,050 --> 00:03:29,470 Speaker 1: Jesus has done for us and who he is and 62 00:03:29,550 --> 00:03:32,450 Speaker 1: who he invites us to be in him, who he 63 00:03:32,510 --> 00:03:37,110 Speaker 1: calls us as the ones he delights in, really, that's disruptive. 64 00:03:37,870 --> 00:03:40,670 Speaker 1: So then there's also the French connection for me, because 65 00:03:41,070 --> 00:03:43,690 Speaker 1: Taste and see that the road is good works so 66 00:03:43,750 --> 00:03:46,070 Speaker 1: well in my French culture. You can hear the accent, 67 00:03:46,170 --> 00:03:48,490 Speaker 1: as you mentioned. I can't get rid of it. And 68 00:03:48,650 --> 00:03:51,530 Speaker 1: I have, you know, I grew up in France and 69 00:03:51,590 --> 00:03:55,110 Speaker 1: I grew up loving really good food and also realizing 70 00:03:55,210 --> 00:03:59,940 Speaker 1: how food and even the spiritual food of relationships with 71 00:04:00,020 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: one another, relationship with God. These are all things that 72 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:09,250 Speaker 1: are almost like stick figures that God uses to as 73 00:04:09,410 --> 00:04:14,020 Speaker 1: illustrations in life to teach us about him and then 74 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,660 Speaker 1: to invite us into relationship with him. So one example 75 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,180 Speaker 1: I have is that Psalm 37, 4 in English is, 76 00:04:21,500 --> 00:04:24,070 Speaker 1: delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you 77 00:04:24,130 --> 00:04:26,670 Speaker 1: the desires of your heart. So that word delight that 78 00:04:26,710 --> 00:04:30,589 Speaker 1: you mentioned, you know, in French, it's the word délice. 79 00:04:31,010 --> 00:04:31,930 Speaker 1: Can you say that for me? 80 00:04:32,010 --> 00:04:34,460 Speaker 2: Délice. Délice. like delicious. 81 00:04:36,100 --> 00:04:39,179 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. You make the connection. Exactly. In English, 82 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,980 Speaker 1: you have two words, the words delight and deliciousness, but 83 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,090 Speaker 1: in French, both of these words are translated delice. So 84 00:04:47,170 --> 00:04:50,750 Speaker 1: my French brain has a hard time dissociating the two 85 00:04:50,790 --> 00:04:54,969 Speaker 1: concepts of delight and deliciousness. So if something is delightful, 86 00:04:55,070 --> 00:04:58,610 Speaker 1: it's necessarily delicious and vice versa, but it doesn't just 87 00:04:58,650 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 1: apply to food. So when scripture says, delight yourself in 88 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,510 Speaker 1: the Lord, in French, it literally says, find God to 89 00:05:06,529 --> 00:05:11,110 Speaker 1: be delicious. So that means that taste and see that 90 00:05:11,150 --> 00:05:14,030 Speaker 1: the Lord is good suddenly makes a whole lot of sense, right? 91 00:05:14,270 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: Because it's so connected. So gospel spice is about tasting 92 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,260 Speaker 1: and seeing that the Lord is good. It is about 93 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: finding the Lord to be both delightful and delicious. And 94 00:05:24,420 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: I think that's a really tantalizing suggestion, isn't it? 95 00:05:28,580 --> 00:05:33,070 Speaker 2: It is. It's so funny. When I wrote my first book, 96 00:05:34,050 --> 00:05:36,420 Speaker 2: I had a little bit of my testimony in it. 97 00:05:37,290 --> 00:05:40,169 Speaker 2: And I used this term. I said, my testimony is 98 00:05:40,250 --> 00:05:45,030 Speaker 2: pretty vanilla. And I meant that in sort of a 99 00:05:45,070 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 2: derogatory way. Because it was like, there's nothing interesting about it. 100 00:05:50,330 --> 00:05:52,410 Speaker 2: I was raised in a Christian home. I went to 101 00:05:52,430 --> 00:05:57,610 Speaker 2: Christian schools. I wasn't rescued from this wild life and 102 00:05:57,630 --> 00:06:01,410 Speaker 2: God did a 180 on me. And I had a 103 00:06:01,529 --> 00:06:05,420 Speaker 2: beta reader for that book right back this long thing, like, 104 00:06:06,140 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: no way. Like every testimony is a story of going 105 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 2: from death to life. And, you know, you're, you're basically 106 00:06:18,350 --> 00:06:23,089 Speaker 2: to how you would put it, you're not finding your 107 00:06:23,210 --> 00:06:26,310 Speaker 2: testimony to be delicious, right? You're not delighting in that. 108 00:06:26,990 --> 00:06:29,510 Speaker 2: And then, so that, that paused me in my tracks. 109 00:06:29,690 --> 00:06:31,130 Speaker 2: And actually, I know you have a lot to say 110 00:06:31,170 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 2: about whether or not vanilla is actually boring. We'll talk 111 00:06:35,220 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 2: about that in a minute. But then I'm thinking like, 112 00:06:39,700 --> 00:06:42,460 Speaker 2: oh goodness, you know, Stephanie, my story, you know, my 113 00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 2: story and A lot of my listeners, right, if you 114 00:06:46,940 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 2: had any sort of eating disorder or disordered relationship with food, right, 115 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:59,300 Speaker 2: delicious food is the enemy. Delicious food is almost sinful, right? 116 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,790 Speaker 2: I mean, that's the word we use, right? It's sinfully delicious. 117 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,890 Speaker 2: Or if something is maybe fat-free or sugar-free, it says 118 00:07:05,990 --> 00:07:10,390 Speaker 2: on the label, it's guilt-free, right? Like this whole concept 119 00:07:10,690 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: of finding something delicious and And being able to go 120 00:07:15,060 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 2: that one step further and be like, and I enjoy it. Wow, 121 00:07:18,580 --> 00:07:21,860 Speaker 2: this is a good gift. Like that's kind of hard 122 00:07:22,500 --> 00:07:26,930 Speaker 2: for women with eating disorder, disordered eating background. So I'm 123 00:07:26,950 --> 00:07:29,170 Speaker 2: just kind of throwing that out there. But I think 124 00:07:30,390 --> 00:07:35,310 Speaker 2: where I hope we're going today, right, is if we 125 00:07:35,470 --> 00:07:42,540 Speaker 2: can really embrace this concept of delighting in him, finding 126 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:49,090 Speaker 2: him delicious, right? It feels like that touches every aspect 127 00:07:50,110 --> 00:07:54,700 Speaker 2: of my life as a Jesus follower, right? It's not 128 00:07:54,820 --> 00:07:57,820 Speaker 2: supposed to, and this is actually a line from my workbook, right? 129 00:07:57,860 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 2: It's not supposed to be like plain bread and black coffee. 130 00:08:02,350 --> 00:08:06,380 Speaker 2: That's not supposed to be the Christian life, God gives 131 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,220 Speaker 2: us great blessings to delight in. So I love that 132 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:09,940 Speaker 2: this is your message. 133 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:10,940 Speaker 1: It's interesting. 134 00:08:10,980 --> 00:08:16,580 Speaker 2: I noticed you're using this term like awaken delight. Like, 135 00:08:16,940 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: is that purposeful? Why awaken delight? 136 00:08:20,310 --> 00:08:25,470 Speaker 1: That's a good question. Before I go there, first, your 137 00:08:25,510 --> 00:08:28,490 Speaker 1: testimony of coming to faith in Christ in a boring 138 00:08:28,830 --> 00:08:31,470 Speaker 1: quote sort of way, that's the story as mothers we 139 00:08:31,510 --> 00:08:34,670 Speaker 1: want for our children, right? And so that's actually the 140 00:08:34,710 --> 00:08:37,670 Speaker 1: best possible story. I don't want my children to have 141 00:08:37,690 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: dramatic conversion stories. I want them to just give their 142 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,380 Speaker 1: faith to Jesus when they're five years old and never 143 00:08:44,420 --> 00:08:46,540 Speaker 1: depart from that way. That's what I want. It sounds 144 00:08:46,580 --> 00:08:48,940 Speaker 1: as boring as possible, but that's the best way. And 145 00:08:48,980 --> 00:08:52,020 Speaker 1: I think in heaven, these stories will be highly celebrated. 146 00:08:52,059 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: So I completely agree with your better reader on that. 147 00:08:54,580 --> 00:08:58,140 Speaker 1: And then as far as finding sin in deliciousness and 148 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,650 Speaker 1: vice versa, I think that's a very human thing because... 149 00:09:02,170 --> 00:09:05,930 Speaker 1: I think when we reorder our loves and our desires, 150 00:09:06,170 --> 00:09:10,290 Speaker 1: and when we realize that God has given us a 151 00:09:10,370 --> 00:09:13,270 Speaker 1: lot of good things to find delicious, whether they be 152 00:09:13,350 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: food or not, it puts things in perspective. And so 153 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: there is no shame or no guilt to be had 154 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: for finding food delicious. And even more so because the problem, 155 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: if you start finding food sinful, if it's delicious, then 156 00:09:30,850 --> 00:09:33,780 Speaker 1: That is a mentality we are necessarily going to export 157 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: to God. And then we can start feeling guilty if 158 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,620 Speaker 1: we actually are enjoying God and we're finding him to 159 00:09:39,660 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: be delicious. Because if anything delicious is sinful, therefore God 160 00:09:43,220 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: is sinful. Ooh, yikes, that's dangerous territory there. And so 161 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,350 Speaker 1: if we want to avoid that, we're going to like 162 00:09:49,420 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: really safe territory of just a very safe and plain 163 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: vanilla relationship with God because that's safe and not dangerous. 164 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,579 Speaker 1: But yeah, but then we're cutting ourselves off from all 165 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,660 Speaker 1: of the promises of scripture. And honestly, in heaven, we're 166 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,540 Speaker 1: going to find God to be so delicious anyway, that 167 00:10:05,660 --> 00:10:09,590 Speaker 1: might as well start now. So as far as awaken delight, 168 00:10:10,870 --> 00:10:13,309 Speaker 1: the word awaken, I think I spent a lot of 169 00:10:13,350 --> 00:10:17,090 Speaker 1: time trying to find the right word. And I didn't 170 00:10:17,130 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: want to something that had to do with finding delight or, um, 171 00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:27,030 Speaker 1: discovering delight, because these tend to indicate something that we 172 00:10:27,190 --> 00:10:31,170 Speaker 1: must wrap in our own strength. Right. And delight is 173 00:10:31,250 --> 00:10:36,010 Speaker 1: not delight in God is not something we can create 174 00:10:36,290 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: in our own strength. It is not something we can 175 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,220 Speaker 1: squeeze like, you know, toothpaste out of a, you know, 176 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,300 Speaker 1: we just can't squeeze toothpaste out of a tube. The, 177 00:10:45,910 --> 00:10:48,670 Speaker 1: in the same way that we would squeeze faith. We 178 00:10:48,730 --> 00:10:51,969 Speaker 1: can't do that. So that means that when we awaken 179 00:10:52,030 --> 00:10:55,670 Speaker 1: delight to our delight in God, we awaken to something 180 00:10:55,690 --> 00:10:59,030 Speaker 1: that already exists. When we awaken to the sunrise, we 181 00:10:59,070 --> 00:11:02,570 Speaker 1: haven't created the sunrise. We awaken to it. We awaken 182 00:11:02,610 --> 00:11:06,650 Speaker 1: to a reality that objectively exists and that we are 183 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,219 Speaker 1: ushered into, that we are choosing to become a part of. 184 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,940 Speaker 1: We awaken to a new day. We awaken our senses. 185 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,870 Speaker 1: We awaken delight in God. And so we awaken to 186 00:11:16,900 --> 00:11:19,910 Speaker 1: something that God is actually inviting us into. He has 187 00:11:19,929 --> 00:11:22,750 Speaker 1: set the stage for us to delight in him. That's 188 00:11:22,830 --> 00:11:24,970 Speaker 1: part of the message of the gospel. But how do 189 00:11:25,010 --> 00:11:29,330 Speaker 1: we step into it? How do we choose to awaken 190 00:11:29,490 --> 00:11:31,830 Speaker 1: to this delight that already exists? How do we choose 191 00:11:31,870 --> 00:11:34,809 Speaker 1: to become a part of it? How do we choose 192 00:11:34,830 --> 00:11:37,550 Speaker 1: to let it flavor our day so that it becomes 193 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,410 Speaker 1: the primary flavor of How do we let it scent 194 00:11:40,530 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: our day? And that's where I love to use vanilla 195 00:11:42,420 --> 00:11:45,420 Speaker 1: because vanilla is both flavor and scent. And I think 196 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,500 Speaker 1: we find a lot in scripture about the true extravagance 197 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: of real vanilla in God. And it's both flavor and scent. 198 00:11:54,020 --> 00:11:56,219 Speaker 1: And it's something we can fully experience through our five 199 00:11:56,260 --> 00:11:59,939 Speaker 1: senses because we awaken, first of all, it's our bodies, right? 200 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: So we are, scripture never invites us to a disembodied 201 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: experience of God. So we awaken to delighting God through 202 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,070 Speaker 1: our five senses. And yes, that includes our taste buds. 203 00:12:09,580 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: And so, yes, there is a dimension to food, but 204 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: it's all of the five senses. When we focus exclusively 205 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: on deliciousness as being related to taste, we forget the 206 00:12:19,660 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: other five senses. Because in my French culture, anything that 207 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,710 Speaker 1: is delicious has to do with beauty. And so it's 208 00:12:25,750 --> 00:12:29,189 Speaker 1: not necessarily just food. It can be a flower. It 209 00:12:29,230 --> 00:12:31,390 Speaker 1: can be a baby's laugh. It can be a sunset. 210 00:12:31,790 --> 00:12:34,050 Speaker 1: It can be the hug of a loved one. These 211 00:12:34,090 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: are all delicious experiences, delightful experiences. So- it broadens the 212 00:12:39,260 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: conversation way beyond just the one sense of food, but 213 00:12:43,100 --> 00:12:47,510 Speaker 1: all of the five senses. God became human and dwelt 214 00:12:47,570 --> 00:12:49,730 Speaker 1: among us. And so in the same way, he invites 215 00:12:49,770 --> 00:12:52,929 Speaker 1: us to use our five senses to awaken and cultivate 216 00:12:53,809 --> 00:12:56,790 Speaker 1: our delight in him. That's rooted, if I may say, 217 00:12:57,390 --> 00:13:00,980 Speaker 1: in the fact that he delights in us first. First 218 00:13:01,020 --> 00:13:04,020 Speaker 1: John says somewhere, and I forget the exact address, we 219 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: love because he first loved us. And I think at 220 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,490 Speaker 1: the very least, it means that We delight in him 221 00:13:09,570 --> 00:13:12,929 Speaker 1: because he delights in us. So we awaken to that reality. 222 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:19,260 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, here's what I'm picturing. I feel like, and 223 00:13:19,380 --> 00:13:23,380 Speaker 2: this may have even been communicated in the American church, 224 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:29,540 Speaker 2: you know, probably going back to maybe the Puritans. It 225 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:36,059 Speaker 2: feels like being a Christian has been interpreted as kind 226 00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:39,780 Speaker 2: of a life of duty. Maybe like, I'm just picturing 227 00:13:39,820 --> 00:13:42,620 Speaker 2: like a black and white movie of like, we're good soldiers, 228 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:47,550 Speaker 2: onward Christian soldiers. You do the things. And what you're describing, 229 00:13:48,850 --> 00:13:50,510 Speaker 2: and I don't mean this in a sexual way, but 230 00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:57,670 Speaker 2: it's a more sensual experience, right? It's, it's like you said, embodied, 231 00:13:57,790 --> 00:14:07,070 Speaker 2: but it's full color. It's beautiful. It's enjoyable. It's, something 232 00:14:07,110 --> 00:14:09,230 Speaker 2: I want to wake up in the morning and see 233 00:14:09,290 --> 00:14:14,850 Speaker 2: like a beautiful sunrise. And that's, that's different. I think then, 234 00:14:15,470 --> 00:14:18,050 Speaker 2: then the Christian life, so many of us have been 235 00:14:19,150 --> 00:14:22,430 Speaker 2: taught to live, you know, I mean, I know you've 236 00:14:22,980 --> 00:14:24,860 Speaker 2: not been in the U S your whole life, but 237 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,340 Speaker 2: for a while, like, I mean, do you see that? 238 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:29,980 Speaker 2: I mean, is that part of why you wrote a 239 00:14:30,020 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 2: book on this? 240 00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: Oh man, you're so, you're so right, Heather. And actually 241 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,380 Speaker 1: it's the bent of my own heart. So I, Don't 242 00:14:36,420 --> 00:14:37,979 Speaker 1: even have to look at culture. I just have to 243 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: look at my own heart. I tend to be, you know, 244 00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:43,110 Speaker 1: a type A achiever, you know, control freak. Maybe you 245 00:14:43,130 --> 00:14:44,130 Speaker 1: can relate to that a bit. 246 00:14:44,410 --> 00:14:46,970 Speaker 2: No, no, I have no idea what you're talking about. 247 00:14:47,690 --> 00:14:50,250 Speaker 1: And so I think, yes, I can so easily get 248 00:14:50,330 --> 00:14:53,450 Speaker 1: stuck on the duty, the tasks, the next thing to do. 249 00:14:54,050 --> 00:14:56,450 Speaker 1: But there's no delight in that, at least not real. 250 00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: There is a measure of delight because nothing is, you know, 251 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: it's very enjoyable to check a checkbox. But at the 252 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,620 Speaker 1: end of the day, it's just a checkbox, right? If 253 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: any of us has added a line of something you've 254 00:15:07,180 --> 00:15:09,180 Speaker 1: already done just to be able to take it, we've 255 00:15:09,220 --> 00:15:12,340 Speaker 1: all done that because it's enjoyable. But there's so much 256 00:15:12,380 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: more to that. If you think about it, there's nothing 257 00:15:15,020 --> 00:15:18,070 Speaker 1: wrong in duty. And I think the Puritans were onto 258 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:22,470 Speaker 1: something with that. But it's a matter of emphasis. Jesus 259 00:15:22,530 --> 00:15:27,370 Speaker 1: said that his generation... was upset with John the Baptist 260 00:15:27,410 --> 00:15:30,110 Speaker 1: who was extremely rigorous and dutiful. And then they were 261 00:15:30,170 --> 00:15:33,610 Speaker 1: also upset with Jesus who was drinking and eating and 262 00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:35,790 Speaker 1: going to dances and having so much fun. 263 00:15:35,980 --> 00:15:36,170 Speaker 2: Right? 264 00:15:36,530 --> 00:15:38,860 Speaker 1: So either way we can see how we can get 265 00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: upset with either of them. And so, but Jesus says 266 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:46,060 Speaker 1: that clearly if he comes eating and drinking and dancing 267 00:15:46,420 --> 00:15:49,540 Speaker 1: and he gets criticized, we get criticized either way. And 268 00:15:49,580 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: so it's so easy to see that and to see 269 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:57,150 Speaker 1: how enjoying God is could almost feel too good to 270 00:15:57,190 --> 00:16:03,210 Speaker 1: be true. But actually, I think it's the opposite. It's true. Therefore, 271 00:16:03,270 --> 00:16:07,250 Speaker 1: it's good because it's from the Lord. And so I'm 272 00:16:07,370 --> 00:16:12,860 Speaker 1: hoping that I can come alongside anyone who has, like me, 273 00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:15,860 Speaker 1: maybe been in the rut of duty and of trying 274 00:16:15,940 --> 00:16:19,310 Speaker 1: to accomplish something for God. Because deep down, I think 275 00:16:19,450 --> 00:16:22,710 Speaker 1: when I live a life that is rooted in duty 276 00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:25,489 Speaker 1: and in the next thing, it's either because I feel 277 00:16:25,550 --> 00:16:29,110 Speaker 1: inadequate in myself or I feel I have something to 278 00:16:29,190 --> 00:16:32,620 Speaker 1: prove to myself or to God, right? And so the 279 00:16:32,650 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: message I think of Awaken Delight and of Gospel Spice 280 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:39,100 Speaker 1: is really to say, my dear friend, the gospel message 281 00:16:39,180 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: is this. There's absolutely nothing you can do for God 282 00:16:42,660 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: to love you more than he already does. And we 283 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: can go through the message of scripture of how he 284 00:16:48,820 --> 00:16:51,990 Speaker 1: has proven his love that is beyond measure, right? I 285 00:16:52,020 --> 00:16:56,830 Speaker 1: was reading literally just this morning, a sentence that stuck 286 00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:58,770 Speaker 1: with me and now I'm going to struggle to paraphrase it. 287 00:16:58,810 --> 00:17:02,870 Speaker 1: But basically the mercy of God is so great that 288 00:17:02,970 --> 00:17:07,740 Speaker 1: he forgives great sinners who have sinned greatly and And 289 00:17:07,780 --> 00:17:10,770 Speaker 1: he forgives them even after a great length of time 290 00:17:10,850 --> 00:17:14,530 Speaker 1: with a great forgiveness that brings in a great joy 291 00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:19,270 Speaker 1: and a great delight towards the joy we'll experience in heaven, 292 00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:21,390 Speaker 1: the great heaven of the great God. So this idea 293 00:17:21,410 --> 00:17:25,429 Speaker 1: of the greatness of God and his delight of us 294 00:17:25,650 --> 00:17:28,330 Speaker 1: and the fact that There is absolutely nothing we can 295 00:17:28,369 --> 00:17:30,790 Speaker 1: do for God to love us more than he already does. 296 00:17:31,130 --> 00:17:35,060 Speaker 1: His love for us is indeed great in the greatest 297 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,340 Speaker 1: sense of the term. But the flip is also true. 298 00:17:37,580 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: There is absolutely nothing you can do for God to 299 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:44,020 Speaker 1: love you less. And that's what we need to hear oftentimes, right? 300 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,620 Speaker 1: On your worst day, there's nothing you can do that's 301 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,340 Speaker 1: going to make God love you less in Christ Jesus. 302 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: Romans 8.1, there is now no condemnation for those of 303 00:17:52,859 --> 00:17:55,260 Speaker 1: us who are in Christ Jesus. So we can Probably 304 00:17:55,340 --> 00:17:58,940 Speaker 1: many of us say that and actually believe it's true. 305 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,590 Speaker 1: But do we actually live like it's true? Has it 306 00:18:01,810 --> 00:18:04,830 Speaker 1: actually internalized all the way to our heart where we 307 00:18:05,210 --> 00:18:09,190 Speaker 1: can say with certainty, I know that God loves me 308 00:18:09,570 --> 00:18:12,189 Speaker 1: on my best today and on my worst day in 309 00:18:12,270 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 1: Christ Jesus. And not just that he loves me because 310 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,139 Speaker 1: he kind of has to. God is love and he 311 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: kind of signed on the dotted line in scripture that 312 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,219 Speaker 1: he's going to love us no matter what. No, no, 313 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: not just that. But he actually likes us. He actually 314 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: enjoys us. Scripture says he delights in us. Seriously, when 315 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: I wake up in the morning and I remember that 316 00:18:31,700 --> 00:18:34,050 Speaker 1: God delights in me, it just puts a spring to 317 00:18:34,090 --> 00:18:36,350 Speaker 1: my step, Heather. It just changes how I go through 318 00:18:36,369 --> 00:18:36,770 Speaker 1: my day. 319 00:18:37,869 --> 00:18:40,950 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I mean, what I encounter with my 320 00:18:41,230 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 2: coaching clients specifically is we get kind of stuck and like, well, 321 00:18:46,220 --> 00:18:50,419 Speaker 2: I don't like myself. I don't, you know, there's all 322 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,379 Speaker 2: these things I feel like I could do better at. 323 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 2: I'm not doing well at. And so we kind of 324 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,669 Speaker 2: project all the ways we feel like we're failing onto 325 00:18:59,710 --> 00:19:01,750 Speaker 2: God and be like, well, of course he must not 326 00:19:02,030 --> 00:19:04,710 Speaker 2: delight in me. He must not love me. Or, I mean, 327 00:19:05,030 --> 00:19:06,969 Speaker 2: you know, to your point, right? Like, I think we 328 00:19:07,030 --> 00:19:10,070 Speaker 2: all like, of course God loves me. God loves everyone. Right. 329 00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:13,449 Speaker 2: But it's like, it's not special, right? Believing that he 330 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 2: actually loves me, that he could find enjoyment in me. 331 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,629 Speaker 2: That's kind of hard to swallow for a lot of us. 332 00:19:22,950 --> 00:19:25,310 Speaker 2: And then, and then, like I said before, like, but 333 00:19:25,790 --> 00:19:28,990 Speaker 2: do I delight in him? Like how, like, what does 334 00:19:29,050 --> 00:19:32,540 Speaker 2: that actually looks like? I, I, yes, I, I can say, 335 00:19:32,619 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 2: I love God. I try to do what he asked 336 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 2: me to do. Right. But again, is that, is that 337 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:47,690 Speaker 2: just onward Christian soldiers, you know, marching, marching dutifully, or 338 00:19:48,190 --> 00:19:53,650 Speaker 2: is that delighting? And man, Stephanie, it just feels like, well, 339 00:19:54,010 --> 00:19:56,270 Speaker 2: I mean, you and I've talked about idolatry before. Like, 340 00:19:56,650 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 2: it feels like there's some sort of idolatry component to this, right? Like, 341 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 2: because if I really stop and think about what I 342 00:20:02,340 --> 00:20:06,700 Speaker 2: delight in, there are some things I delight in. Maybe 343 00:20:06,740 --> 00:20:10,699 Speaker 2: it's my checklist, right? Or maybe for some, I mean, 344 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,010 Speaker 2: for me, it definitely used to be trying to delight 345 00:20:13,050 --> 00:20:15,190 Speaker 2: in my body. Like if I could just have an 346 00:20:15,230 --> 00:20:19,270 Speaker 2: appearance that made me happy, then that would be my delight, right? 347 00:20:19,290 --> 00:20:25,830 Speaker 2: And so there's an idolatrous component to that. But yet, 348 00:20:25,850 --> 00:20:29,859 Speaker 2: aside from that extreme, well, extreme might even be too, 349 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,060 Speaker 2: because I think it's so ubiquitous, right? But aside from that, 350 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 2: it's like, okay, Lord, like how do I learn how 351 00:20:37,859 --> 00:20:43,429 Speaker 2: to feel your delight and not turn it into anything 352 00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:45,730 Speaker 2: that it wasn't meant to be? I don't know. I 353 00:20:45,730 --> 00:20:48,070 Speaker 2: said a lot of words there, but what are you thinking? 354 00:20:48,690 --> 00:20:50,669 Speaker 1: Let me just, what you just said here, how do 355 00:20:50,750 --> 00:20:53,250 Speaker 1: I feel your delight of me? 356 00:20:53,310 --> 00:20:53,470 Speaker 2: Right. 357 00:20:53,490 --> 00:20:56,470 Speaker 1: That's the thing. Cause That's why, again, the word awaken, 358 00:20:56,510 --> 00:20:59,850 Speaker 1: we awaken to a reality that is objectively present. And again, 359 00:21:00,270 --> 00:21:04,300 Speaker 1: we know from scripture that objectively God's delight of us 360 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: is real and that his presence, I mean, God is 361 00:21:08,340 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: nearer to you and me than we could ever imagine. 362 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,820 Speaker 1: We're just not awake to it. We're not just aware. 363 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,810 Speaker 1: We just don't have the awareness of God's presence all 364 00:21:17,830 --> 00:21:20,090 Speaker 1: the time. He's always present. We know that it is 365 00:21:20,170 --> 00:21:24,450 Speaker 1: not our felt experience. And so I think delight is 366 00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:27,950 Speaker 1: a bit of a disruptive word that forces us to pause, 367 00:21:28,310 --> 00:21:31,550 Speaker 1: unlike joy or happiness that have been, again, so ubiquitously 368 00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: used that we kind of lost what they really mean. 369 00:21:34,170 --> 00:21:38,220 Speaker 1: And so I think delight is just a way to say, okay, 370 00:21:40,540 --> 00:21:44,940 Speaker 1: how can I grow in my awareness of the objective 371 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:49,590 Speaker 1: reality of the presence of God? The objective reality is, 372 00:21:50,220 --> 00:21:53,479 Speaker 1: of God's delight of me, the objective reality that he 373 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,420 Speaker 1: invites me to delight in him. Because these are all things, yes, 374 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,659 Speaker 1: of course, in scripture, we can prove they're true, but 375 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,530 Speaker 1: they're not our experience. And so I think awakening delight 376 00:22:01,710 --> 00:22:06,650 Speaker 1: is bridging that gap from theology or doctrine towards experience 377 00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:09,169 Speaker 1: and felt reality. That's what we long for, right? I mean, 378 00:22:09,670 --> 00:22:12,970 Speaker 1: Tim Taylor says our desire, our soul's greatest longing is 379 00:22:13,010 --> 00:22:15,669 Speaker 1: to be fully known and fully loved. And that's bridging 380 00:22:15,690 --> 00:22:18,970 Speaker 1: that gap in that way. So how do we do that? 381 00:22:20,230 --> 00:22:23,149 Speaker 1: I guess that's the million dollar question. And at the 382 00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:26,470 Speaker 1: end of the day, again, this is not something we 383 00:22:26,510 --> 00:22:29,210 Speaker 1: manufacture in our own strength. That's the whole point. Because 384 00:22:29,310 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: if we could, then it would keep us on that 385 00:22:31,619 --> 00:22:35,340 Speaker 1: hamster wheel of performance and control and be like needing 386 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,140 Speaker 1: to do a little bit more to get a little 387 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,540 Speaker 1: bit further. I think delight, when we seek to make 388 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: delighting God our actual reality and the driving force of 389 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,389 Speaker 1: our life, It takes us off the hamster wheel because 390 00:22:51,670 --> 00:22:53,710 Speaker 1: one of the first things we need to realize is 391 00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:57,669 Speaker 1: that this isn't something we can manufacture in our own strength. 392 00:22:58,220 --> 00:23:00,580 Speaker 1: This isn't like, you know, again, and back to what 393 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,419 Speaker 1: you were saying about, you know, I'm just going to 394 00:23:02,500 --> 00:23:04,419 Speaker 1: love God no matter what. I'm going to grit it 395 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,740 Speaker 1: out come what may. I am going to muster up 396 00:23:06,780 --> 00:23:10,190 Speaker 1: those feelings of love. Well, has that ever worked for you? 397 00:23:10,650 --> 00:23:13,050 Speaker 1: Because it sure hasn't worked for me. It's the same 398 00:23:13,090 --> 00:23:15,890 Speaker 1: way with our kids. There's days that our kids are 399 00:23:16,050 --> 00:23:18,830 Speaker 1: more or less lovable, right? Or I would say, no, 400 00:23:18,869 --> 00:23:22,369 Speaker 1: they're more or less likable. Maybe that's a better one. 401 00:23:23,070 --> 00:23:23,730 Speaker 2: Or husbands. 402 00:23:24,590 --> 00:23:27,830 Speaker 1: Husbands. Ourselves, right? Ourselves, most of all. Let's just keep 403 00:23:27,890 --> 00:23:31,020 Speaker 1: it with ourselves. Honestly, most days, I don't like myself 404 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,500 Speaker 1: a whole lot. And so I'm not going to muster 405 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: up those feelings. I'm going to go back to what 406 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:42,379 Speaker 1: God says. And that's where the beauty of delight comes 407 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,570 Speaker 1: in to me because again, love, we have been so conditioned, 408 00:23:46,670 --> 00:23:48,770 Speaker 1: maybe by the Puritans, maybe I think I would say 409 00:23:48,810 --> 00:23:52,490 Speaker 1: by the more modern Christian culture to love God, right? 410 00:23:52,869 --> 00:23:56,310 Speaker 1: But we have completely emptied it of meaning. When we 411 00:23:56,350 --> 00:23:58,950 Speaker 1: say God is love, it has become a bumper sticker. 412 00:23:59,010 --> 00:24:01,410 Speaker 1: We don't really know what it means anymore. But what 413 00:24:01,450 --> 00:24:05,910 Speaker 1: if we started saying God is delight? That's again, that's just, 414 00:24:06,010 --> 00:24:07,970 Speaker 1: it shakes things enough that it forces us to think 415 00:24:08,010 --> 00:24:12,370 Speaker 1: about it. And love is not something that you can 416 00:24:12,570 --> 00:24:16,350 Speaker 1: force because if you could force love, then by definition, 417 00:24:16,390 --> 00:24:18,340 Speaker 1: it would not be love, right? You can't, as you know, 418 00:24:18,380 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: you can't force your kids to love you. You can't 419 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 1: force yourself to love yourself. Maybe you can force your 420 00:24:23,940 --> 00:24:26,140 Speaker 1: dog to love you, but that's about it, right? Give 421 00:24:26,180 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: or take. 422 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:27,060 Speaker 2: I don't know. 423 00:24:28,540 --> 00:24:31,699 Speaker 1: So love requires choice. And in the same way, delight 424 00:24:31,780 --> 00:24:35,109 Speaker 1: requires the choice of saying, okay, God, I'm going to 425 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,810 Speaker 1: surrender everything. I'm making the choice to ask you to 426 00:24:40,290 --> 00:24:42,950 Speaker 1: teach me to delight in you and to ask you 427 00:24:43,170 --> 00:24:46,229 Speaker 1: to teach me that you delight in me. Because no 428 00:24:46,270 --> 00:24:49,490 Speaker 1: matter how much I read scripture, if you don't, by 429 00:24:49,510 --> 00:24:51,990 Speaker 1: your Holy Spirit, connect my head to my heart, it's 430 00:24:52,010 --> 00:24:53,990 Speaker 1: not going to make sense to me. So it's that 431 00:24:54,030 --> 00:24:57,050 Speaker 1: position of saying, okay, Lord, can you help me actually 432 00:24:57,730 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: live a life that is the outpouring and that is 433 00:25:02,420 --> 00:25:05,100 Speaker 1: an extension of what you tell me is true in 434 00:25:05,140 --> 00:25:09,010 Speaker 1: your word. So it's connecting the dots. of truth and experience. 435 00:25:09,170 --> 00:25:10,590 Speaker 1: And I think delight is that key. 436 00:25:11,750 --> 00:25:15,109 Speaker 2: So which comes first, delighting in God or feeling his 437 00:25:15,150 --> 00:25:15,730 Speaker 2: delight in me? 438 00:25:17,970 --> 00:25:21,930 Speaker 1: Chicken and the egg sort of question. 439 00:25:22,540 --> 00:25:23,940 Speaker 2: Or is it happening at the same time? 440 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,940 Speaker 1: I think it's a bit of both, but for me, 441 00:25:27,020 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: at least in my experience, I came as a Bible teacher. 442 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: I'm a Bible geek. I love to go through scripture 443 00:25:34,380 --> 00:25:37,210 Speaker 1: and I had been a Bible teacher for many, many, 444 00:25:37,290 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: many years before it dawned on me that I had 445 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:45,020 Speaker 1: way more head knowledge than heart experience. There was a 446 00:25:45,220 --> 00:25:47,340 Speaker 1: whole lot of things I could teach you about God 447 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:52,290 Speaker 1: that I didn't actually have an experience of. And that 448 00:25:52,369 --> 00:25:54,629 Speaker 1: kind of stopped me in my track because that made me, 449 00:25:54,650 --> 00:25:56,670 Speaker 1: I don't know if it made me a hypocrite, but 450 00:25:56,710 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 1: it definitely showed me a gap between my theology and 451 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: my experience. And I wanted to bridge that gap. And 452 00:26:04,619 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: so for me, at least for me, it was realizing, 453 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,990 Speaker 1: you know, Heather, I actually deep down when the rubber 454 00:26:13,050 --> 00:26:15,169 Speaker 1: hits the road, I don't actually believe God likes me 455 00:26:15,210 --> 00:26:18,409 Speaker 1: a whole lot. I don't believe he likes me. I 456 00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:20,550 Speaker 1: believe in that general sense that he loves me because 457 00:26:20,570 --> 00:26:21,270 Speaker 1: he loves everyone. 458 00:26:21,310 --> 00:26:21,470 Speaker 2: Right. 459 00:26:21,550 --> 00:26:24,870 Speaker 1: And I just kind of got squeezed in, you know, it's, 460 00:26:25,090 --> 00:26:26,970 Speaker 1: there was, there must have been a loophole somewhere that 461 00:26:27,010 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 1: I got it by mistake, but you know, Right, something 462 00:26:30,940 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: like that. But no, but that's not how scripture, that 463 00:26:34,060 --> 00:26:37,340 Speaker 1: is absolutely not what scripture teaches. It's extremely personal. And 464 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 1: so for me, it was, it all came, it all 465 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,710 Speaker 1: made sense when I realized that God really delights in me. 466 00:26:48,130 --> 00:26:50,490 Speaker 1: And now when I say that, it's probably easy for 467 00:26:50,510 --> 00:26:52,149 Speaker 1: you to believe that. It's so easy for me to 468 00:26:52,210 --> 00:26:54,810 Speaker 1: believe that God delights in Heather. Of course, you're delightful. 469 00:26:54,910 --> 00:26:55,990 Speaker 1: I love you. But me? 470 00:26:56,570 --> 00:26:56,969 Speaker 2: No, no, no. 471 00:26:57,109 --> 00:26:59,310 Speaker 1: I know myself way too much. I know my own 472 00:26:59,369 --> 00:27:01,449 Speaker 1: sin way too much. There's no way God could like me. 473 00:27:01,570 --> 00:27:03,810 Speaker 1: And I'm so disappointed in myself most of the time. 474 00:27:03,869 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: And you touched on that. We can be so disappointed 475 00:27:07,380 --> 00:27:09,899 Speaker 1: in ourselves because we don't know what the future holds. 476 00:27:10,060 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 1: So I'm disappointed in myself today because I did something 477 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,030 Speaker 1: today that I didn't think I was capable of yesterday. 478 00:27:18,490 --> 00:27:21,389 Speaker 1: So yesterday, I never imagined myself doing whatever it is 479 00:27:21,430 --> 00:27:25,250 Speaker 1: that I'm disappointed with myself today. because we don't know 480 00:27:25,270 --> 00:27:28,490 Speaker 1: the future. But God does. God already knew yesterday that 481 00:27:28,510 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: I was going to blow it today. And he hasn't 482 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: changed his opinion of me. He already knew perfectly. It's 483 00:27:34,220 --> 00:27:36,060 Speaker 1: a bit like a parent who commits to loving a 484 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,050 Speaker 1: child no matter what. And that can be really difficult. 485 00:27:39,930 --> 00:27:43,090 Speaker 1: But God cannot be disappointed in us because he already 486 00:27:43,130 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: knows the future. And if he was Okay, here's the 487 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,780 Speaker 1: other thing to keep in thought as well, is that 488 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,380 Speaker 1: God in Genesis 1, 2, and 3, we see him 489 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,780 Speaker 1: naming his creation good. And the Hebrew for good means 490 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:06,010 Speaker 1: extravagantly delightful, incredibly beautiful, satisfying. It's not just like, yeah, 491 00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:09,030 Speaker 1: it's good. Yeah, good enough. That's not it. It's like, 492 00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:13,530 Speaker 1: oh my goodness, it is staggeringly stunning. That's what it means. 493 00:28:14,170 --> 00:28:19,190 Speaker 1: That's how God calls us, like staggeringly stunning, awe-inspiring, which 494 00:28:19,250 --> 00:28:22,770 Speaker 1: is kind of crazy to think about. And so God 495 00:28:22,990 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: being God, he has the luxury of creating a universe 496 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,340 Speaker 1: that is to his liking, right? Like when you furnish 497 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,820 Speaker 1: your home, you're not going to put ugly stuff in there. 498 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: When you dress your kids, you're not going to put 499 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,220 Speaker 1: nasty stuff on them, stuff that you enjoy, right? And 500 00:28:36,260 --> 00:28:38,970 Speaker 1: so God, when he creates his world, his universe, he 501 00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:42,820 Speaker 1: fills it with things he really enjoys. That's us. Man, 502 00:28:42,890 --> 00:28:47,100 Speaker 1: imagine that. He would not put junk in his universe. 503 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,620 Speaker 1: He only put the best, the staggeringly beautiful best. That's us. 504 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,260 Speaker 1: And so, no, God is not disappointed in us because 505 00:28:55,460 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: if he was disappointed enough, he simply would not have 506 00:28:58,220 --> 00:29:02,380 Speaker 1: created us. He wouldn't have cluttered his universe with stuff 507 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,410 Speaker 1: he doesn't like or people he doesn't like. So all 508 00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:07,890 Speaker 1: the people he didn't like, he didn't create them. They're 509 00:29:07,910 --> 00:29:08,850 Speaker 1: not around. Right. 510 00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:14,650 Speaker 2: It's so simple. But if you're living and breathing, he 511 00:29:14,670 --> 00:29:15,310 Speaker 2: delights in you. 512 00:29:15,530 --> 00:29:18,830 Speaker 1: I mean, so then, okay, how do you let that 513 00:29:19,190 --> 00:29:21,510 Speaker 1: sink into your heart? You ask him to do that. 514 00:29:21,610 --> 00:29:24,710 Speaker 1: And then when that happens, when God doesn't feel so 515 00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: threatening or punitive, because if he really delights in you, 516 00:29:28,670 --> 00:29:32,060 Speaker 1: then maybe it's not so scary to delight back in 517 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,239 Speaker 1: him in return, right? And so I think we can 518 00:29:34,420 --> 00:29:38,460 Speaker 1: only delight in someone when they kind of like us. 519 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:39,930 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Um, even. 520 00:29:40,380 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: Parents of prodigals or spurned lovers would disagree on that. 521 00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: You know, it's really difficult to love someone who doesn't 522 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:46,300 Speaker 1: love you back. 523 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 2: Right. 524 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: But we don't have that problem with God. 525 00:29:48,940 --> 00:29:49,980 Speaker 2: Yeah. 526 00:29:50,420 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. 527 00:29:51,220 --> 00:29:53,620 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I'm thinking the only really thing that confuses 528 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 2: everything is my opinions. Right. Or, the opinions of the 529 00:29:59,260 --> 00:30:02,940 Speaker 2: zillions of people trying to sell me something that they 530 00:30:02,980 --> 00:30:05,820 Speaker 2: have to convince me that I am not delightful or 531 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,340 Speaker 2: delighted in or good enough because they want me to 532 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 2: spend money buying whatever it is they're selling so that 533 00:30:11,460 --> 00:30:15,010 Speaker 2: I can become more delightful or beautiful or insert your 534 00:30:15,070 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 2: adjective here, right? And so... It really isn't any biblical 535 00:30:20,530 --> 00:30:25,770 Speaker 2: message that confuses me. It's my own, you know, deceitful heart. 536 00:30:25,930 --> 00:30:29,070 Speaker 2: It's the messages of the enemy and it's the world, right? 537 00:30:29,610 --> 00:30:31,630 Speaker 1: It's back to, you know, the tree of the knowledge 538 00:30:31,670 --> 00:30:33,730 Speaker 1: of good and evil. It's exactly what it is. It's 539 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: identifying for us a need we do not have and 540 00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:44,900 Speaker 1: then making that the all important thing. Yeah. Yeah. that's, 541 00:30:45,060 --> 00:30:46,940 Speaker 1: that's at the end of the day, that's what it is. 542 00:30:46,980 --> 00:30:48,540 Speaker 1: We're back to the tree of the knowledge of good 543 00:30:48,580 --> 00:30:51,930 Speaker 1: and evil, where it's like Satan pointed Adam and Eve 544 00:30:51,950 --> 00:30:54,850 Speaker 1: in the direction of something they didn't actually need and 545 00:30:54,910 --> 00:30:57,730 Speaker 1: made them believe they absolutely needed it. Right. 546 00:30:58,170 --> 00:31:01,450 Speaker 2: And also, yeah. And making them believe that they then, 547 00:31:01,730 --> 00:31:05,100 Speaker 2: so then they get to define good and evil, right? 548 00:31:05,150 --> 00:31:07,900 Speaker 1: And the only way, and actually, interestingly, they had to 549 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: taste the fruit, right? So again, it's an embodied experience 550 00:31:11,420 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: and we're back to the scenes of taste and the 551 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,180 Speaker 1: five senses, because They had only been tasting and experiencing 552 00:31:17,260 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: good so far. The only way for them to know 553 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: evil as they knew good was through an embodied experience. 554 00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:29,820 Speaker 1: That's why they had to take a bite of the fruit. 555 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: They had to taste it. It had to become a 556 00:31:31,580 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: part of who they are because the only way for 557 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,070 Speaker 1: them to know evil was to have firsthand experience of 558 00:31:37,130 --> 00:31:40,290 Speaker 1: it by tasting it. And that evil was the moment 559 00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:42,610 Speaker 1: they chose to disobey God and not trust God, but 560 00:31:42,670 --> 00:31:47,620 Speaker 1: trust themselves or Satan, that's how they experienced evil. And 561 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: now the tree of the knowledge of good and evil 562 00:31:49,460 --> 00:31:54,140 Speaker 1: delivered because they knew evil firsthand, even as they had 563 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,430 Speaker 1: known good for all the time prior to that. So yeah, 564 00:31:58,570 --> 00:31:59,330 Speaker 1: it really delivered. 565 00:32:01,390 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 2: Interesting stuff. Girl, we could probably talk for an hour 566 00:32:05,660 --> 00:32:09,100 Speaker 2: or more on this, but I just, I'd be remiss 567 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 2: if I didn't mention you wrote a book on it. 568 00:32:11,140 --> 00:32:13,979 Speaker 2: And so I'm assuming the book will give us some, 569 00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:17,330 Speaker 2: actually I've read it, so I know it does, give 570 00:32:17,390 --> 00:32:21,290 Speaker 2: us some practical things to incorporate into our lives if 571 00:32:21,310 --> 00:32:23,290 Speaker 2: we want to experience delight. But can you just say 572 00:32:23,310 --> 00:32:25,930 Speaker 2: a little bit more about the book and kind of 573 00:32:25,950 --> 00:32:28,170 Speaker 2: what we would expect there? Yeah. 574 00:32:28,250 --> 00:32:31,030 Speaker 1: So thank you. So it's called Awaken Delight, Satisfying Your 575 00:32:31,070 --> 00:32:35,150 Speaker 1: Soul's Longing for God. And it's really about, there you go. Yes, 576 00:32:35,210 --> 00:32:38,490 Speaker 1: we're both. It has a pretty cover. They did a 577 00:32:38,510 --> 00:32:40,910 Speaker 1: good job with a cover, I think. So it's really 578 00:32:40,970 --> 00:32:45,190 Speaker 1: about what we talked about, about really, okay, do I 579 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: really believe what God says about me? Do I really 580 00:32:47,940 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: believe what God says about himself? Because everything is rooted 581 00:32:51,780 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: about who God is and who he says we are, 582 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,390 Speaker 1: who he says we are. he says? What does he 583 00:32:57,450 --> 00:32:59,450 Speaker 1: say about us? And do we actually believe it? So 584 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,460 Speaker 1: the book walks us through that and, and roots delight 585 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,780 Speaker 1: in God in his delight of us. And then we 586 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: talk a lot about pain and suffering and seasons of hardship, because, 587 00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:11,220 Speaker 1: you know, maybe it sounds easy to delight in God 588 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,700 Speaker 1: when life is good, but what, what happens when life 589 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: is hard. And so the bulk of the book is 590 00:33:15,460 --> 00:33:18,340 Speaker 1: really about how do we awaken and sustain or delight 591 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,430 Speaker 1: in God when life really doesn't go our way. And 592 00:33:21,450 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: then we talk about really, really practical ways, the spiritual disciplines, 593 00:33:24,860 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: but from a place of delight, not from a place 594 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: of duty. So if you've ever felt like you had to, 595 00:33:29,540 --> 00:33:32,660 Speaker 1: you know, read your Bible verses or pray or go 596 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:37,780 Speaker 1: to church to check the boxes, we try to incorporate 597 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,940 Speaker 1: delight as the ingredient that's going to change how you 598 00:33:40,980 --> 00:33:44,540 Speaker 1: experience all of these things that God says are good 599 00:33:44,580 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: things for us to do. 600 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,170 Speaker 2: I love it. It's a delicious book. So I encourage 601 00:33:49,210 --> 00:33:52,150 Speaker 2: everyone to go get it. And you're going to do 602 00:33:52,170 --> 00:33:54,450 Speaker 2: a little giveaway just for my listeners. Tell me what 603 00:33:54,510 --> 00:33:56,650 Speaker 2: you're giving away and where they should go and what 604 00:33:56,670 --> 00:33:57,230 Speaker 2: they need to do. 605 00:33:57,770 --> 00:34:00,489 Speaker 1: So much fun. I'd love to partner with you to 606 00:34:00,550 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: give anyone who is interested a five-day email devotional in 607 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,900 Speaker 1: order to awaken your delight in God rooted in his 608 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:12,259 Speaker 1: delight of you, especially in seasons of weariness or tiredness 609 00:34:12,340 --> 00:34:16,860 Speaker 1: or pain or suffering. And so it's available at gospelspice.com 610 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,780 Speaker 1: slash Heather. And it's really just for your people. So 611 00:34:20,390 --> 00:34:22,859 Speaker 1: you can grab that for free. And we would love 612 00:34:22,900 --> 00:34:25,660 Speaker 1: to bless one of the person who will sign up 613 00:34:25,820 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: by randomly drawing a name for a prize that contains 614 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,950 Speaker 1: a piece of jewelry made by survivors of human trafficking. 615 00:34:33,050 --> 00:34:34,589 Speaker 1: One of the ways we delight in God is by 616 00:34:34,650 --> 00:34:37,850 Speaker 1: helping those around us who struggle. And so Gospel Spice 617 00:34:37,870 --> 00:34:40,410 Speaker 1: is committed to the fight against human trafficking. And one 618 00:34:40,430 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 1: of the ways we do that is by buying jewelry. 619 00:34:42,850 --> 00:34:46,430 Speaker 1: made from the Starfish Project, among others, which is beautiful jewelry. 620 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,180 Speaker 1: So we're offering that to one winner alongside with a 621 00:34:49,219 --> 00:34:52,300 Speaker 1: prayer journal and a bunch of other really fun stuff. 622 00:34:52,340 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: So go to gospelspice.com slash Heather to grab your prize 623 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:57,790 Speaker 1: and potentially win the giveaway. 624 00:34:57,810 --> 00:35:00,910 Speaker 2: Awesome. I love it. Stephanie, thanks so much for being 625 00:35:00,950 --> 00:35:02,270 Speaker 2: on the Compared To podcast today. 626 00:35:02,290 --> 00:35:05,410 Speaker 1: You're the best. I learned so much from you, Heather, 627 00:35:05,630 --> 00:35:07,739 Speaker 1: and I am so grateful for you. Thank you. 628 00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:11,150 Speaker 2: And I hope that you all got something out of 629 00:35:11,170 --> 00:35:13,300 Speaker 2: today's episode. I know you did, but I hope maybe 630 00:35:13,340 --> 00:35:17,240 Speaker 2: the main takeaway, Stephanie, maybe you agree with me or disagree, 631 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 2: add something to this if you like, but man, we 632 00:35:20,540 --> 00:35:25,850 Speaker 2: can all just kind of inhale, exhale, and just delight. 633 00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:31,770 Speaker 2: He's good. He made us good. We can just breathe 634 00:35:31,810 --> 00:35:34,250 Speaker 2: in that reality today. So I hope that encourages you 635 00:35:34,290 --> 00:35:36,760 Speaker 2: if you're watching or listening today, go grab Stephanie's brand 636 00:35:36,780 --> 00:35:40,620 Speaker 2: new book, Awaken Delight. You can find it anywhere Christian 637 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,850 Speaker 2: books are sold. Go to the Gospel Science website. Use 638 00:35:43,890 --> 00:35:49,190 Speaker 2: that backsplash. I'm not redecorating my kitchen either. Use that 639 00:35:49,250 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 2: backslash or is it forward slash Heather and get your 640 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,940 Speaker 2: free devotional and maybe win the cool jewelry too. Hey, Stephanie, 641 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 2: thanks again for being here. Thank you for watching or listening. 642 00:36:01,700 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 2: I hope something today helps you stop comparing and start 643 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:04,990 Speaker 2: living your life.