1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Love Offering Podcast. I'm your host, Rachel Adams, 3 00:00:08,539 --> 00:00:11,299 Speaker 2: author of Everyday Prayers for Love, Learning to Love God, Others, 4 00:00:11,390 --> 00:00:14,750 Speaker 2: and Even Yourself. Each week we dive into meaningful conversations 5 00:00:14,790 --> 00:00:17,250 Speaker 2: about how to live out the greatest commandment, living God 6 00:00:17,270 --> 00:00:19,209 Speaker 2: with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and 7 00:00:19,250 --> 00:00:23,390 Speaker 2: loving our neighbors as ourselves. Whether through inspiring stories, practical wisdom, 8 00:00:23,489 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 2: or biblical truth, my hope is to encourage you to 9 00:00:25,900 --> 00:00:28,740 Speaker 2: love boldly, live faithfully, and reflect God's love in your 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: everyday life. Today, I'm honored to welcome Jess Connolly to 11 00:00:32,340 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 2: the show. Jess is an author and speaker whose new book, 12 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,860 Speaker 2: You Can't Be Brave Until You're Scared, offers a compassionate 13 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,390 Speaker 2: invitation to face fear without feeling ashamed of it. Many 14 00:00:41,450 --> 00:00:44,650 Speaker 2: women feel caught between two messages. The world tells us 15 00:00:44,710 --> 00:00:47,330 Speaker 2: we have every reason to be afraid, while we may 16 00:00:47,510 --> 00:00:51,979 Speaker 2: wonder whether fear means we're failing at faith. Jess helps 17 00:00:52,140 --> 00:00:54,700 Speaker 2: us look honestly at how fear affects our minds, bodies, 18 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,620 Speaker 2: and souls. She points us toward a biblical fear of 19 00:00:57,660 --> 00:01:00,260 Speaker 2: the Lord, a holy awe that can help us follow 20 00:01:00,300 --> 00:01:04,860 Speaker 2: God courageously, even while we're scared. Well, hello, Jess, and 21 00:01:04,890 --> 00:01:07,210 Speaker 2: welcome to the Love Offering Podcast. I'm so happy to 22 00:01:07,250 --> 00:01:07,530 Speaker 2: have you. 23 00:01:08,530 --> 00:01:10,830 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me today. What a 24 00:01:10,870 --> 00:01:11,690 Speaker 1: gift to be here. 25 00:01:11,709 --> 00:01:15,010 Speaker 2: So I know I read your professional bio, but in 26 00:01:15,050 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 2: your own words, tell us who Jess is and a 27 00:01:18,060 --> 00:01:19,340 Speaker 2: little bit about you and your life. 28 00:01:20,350 --> 00:01:23,410 Speaker 1: Well, I live in Charleston, South Carolina. I live here 29 00:01:23,590 --> 00:01:26,670 Speaker 1: with my husband. We've got four kiddos. I have just 30 00:01:26,750 --> 00:01:28,270 Speaker 1: entered a new season where I used to say we 31 00:01:28,310 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: live here with our four kiddos, but our kiddos are 32 00:01:31,090 --> 00:01:34,459 Speaker 1: now young adults and they're not all here, which is womp, womp. 33 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:39,260 Speaker 1: Apparently kids grow up. So we've got four kids aged 19, 18, 17, 34 00:01:39,260 --> 00:01:42,340 Speaker 1: and 13. So we've got two college age and two 35 00:01:42,380 --> 00:01:46,810 Speaker 1: still at home. And we lead our church here, Bright 36 00:01:46,890 --> 00:01:50,140 Speaker 1: City Church that we planted 13 years ago. And I 37 00:01:50,180 --> 00:01:52,900 Speaker 1: also run an organization called Go and Tell Gals. And 38 00:01:53,580 --> 00:01:59,020 Speaker 1: we equip generations of women for genuine and effective kingdom living. 39 00:01:59,060 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: And so we do that through coaching and a variety 40 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,140 Speaker 1: of different modalities. And on top of all that, I 41 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,820 Speaker 1: travel to teach and I write books, which is just 42 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: a great honor and dream of my life. 43 00:02:11,700 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 2: So hearing all that and just because this is the 44 00:02:13,980 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 2: first time we've met and gotten to talk. When I 45 00:02:16,260 --> 00:02:18,260 Speaker 2: look at you on social media and I listen to 46 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:20,019 Speaker 2: your podcast and I read your books, I'm like, there's 47 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 2: no way that this lady is scared of anything. Like 48 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,180 Speaker 2: she seems like the bravest woman ever. So it's interesting 49 00:02:27,220 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 2: to me that you wrote a book on fear. Have 50 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,500 Speaker 2: you always felt like fear has been an issue for you, 51 00:02:33,870 --> 00:02:35,490 Speaker 2: but yet you've pushed through anyway? 52 00:02:36,389 --> 00:02:40,130 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really great question. And I always say like, 53 00:02:40,210 --> 00:02:42,570 Speaker 1: you know, I think I'm pretty competitive. I do think 54 00:02:42,630 --> 00:02:44,590 Speaker 1: that is what is true about me. I think more 55 00:02:44,630 --> 00:02:46,350 Speaker 1: than I would say I'm fearful and more than I 56 00:02:46,370 --> 00:02:48,910 Speaker 1: would say I'm brave, I would say I'm definitely competitive. 57 00:02:49,110 --> 00:02:52,149 Speaker 1: And somewhere along the lines, I realized that the most 58 00:02:52,190 --> 00:02:53,829 Speaker 1: scared person in the room also gets to be the 59 00:02:54,169 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: most courageous person in the room. And so I think 60 00:02:55,690 --> 00:02:57,859 Speaker 1: there's a part of me that's like, well, you know, listen, 61 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: at least I'm winning this competition of I do often 62 00:03:02,419 --> 00:03:04,459 Speaker 1: feel like the most scared person in the room. But yeah, 63 00:03:04,660 --> 00:03:08,380 Speaker 1: my earliest memories are certainly being terrified, being the most 64 00:03:08,419 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: scared person in the room, being really worried about what 65 00:03:11,060 --> 00:03:13,210 Speaker 1: was going to happen to me physically, being worried about 66 00:03:13,230 --> 00:03:15,750 Speaker 1: my safety, being worried about the people I love, being 67 00:03:15,790 --> 00:03:18,829 Speaker 1: worried about what would happen next. And it's interesting. I 68 00:03:19,070 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: feel like, Rachel, you're one of the first people who's 69 00:03:21,900 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: kind of identified like, wait, hold on one second. There's 70 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: this dissonance with what you do and and this experience. 71 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: But it's really interesting as far as my story and 72 00:03:32,220 --> 00:03:36,410 Speaker 1: my calling. Most of what I find myself doing right now, 73 00:03:36,710 --> 00:03:39,010 Speaker 1: I often feel like the Lord kind of dragged me 74 00:03:39,110 --> 00:03:41,870 Speaker 1: into it. And I don't say that because I think 75 00:03:41,910 --> 00:03:44,350 Speaker 1: it's wrong to want to step into your calling. I 76 00:03:44,470 --> 00:03:46,460 Speaker 1: don't think it's You know, I don't think it's like 77 00:03:46,500 --> 00:03:48,350 Speaker 1: an unhealthy desire to want to write books or to 78 00:03:48,380 --> 00:03:49,790 Speaker 1: want to teach or to want to lead a church. 79 00:03:49,970 --> 00:03:53,070 Speaker 1: But I will say like that, that genuinely wasn't my story. 80 00:03:53,210 --> 00:03:55,230 Speaker 1: I didn't sit at home and dream about those things. 81 00:03:55,610 --> 00:03:59,340 Speaker 1: In fact, for example, I was terrified to plant a church. 82 00:03:59,690 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: And the origin story of my husband telling me that 83 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,839 Speaker 1: he felt called to plant was we having to live 84 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: in Seattle, Washington at the time. And he came to 85 00:04:06,460 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: me one night and he said, listen, I've been talking 86 00:04:08,420 --> 00:04:11,100 Speaker 1: to the Lord, you know, I perceived that he has 87 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: this call in my life to plant churches, to plant churches. 88 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,100 Speaker 1: I want to plant a family of churches. And our 89 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,180 Speaker 1: kids were young at the time and we lived in 90 00:04:18,220 --> 00:04:19,930 Speaker 1: Seattle and it was the middle of a snowstorm and 91 00:04:20,010 --> 00:04:23,460 Speaker 1: I stopped speaking to him. for five full days. And 92 00:04:23,500 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 1: that sounds funny, but it is funny. But it was 93 00:04:28,100 --> 00:04:34,510 Speaker 1: such extreme fear that genuinely pushed me to disobedience. And similarly, 94 00:04:34,690 --> 00:04:36,710 Speaker 1: I didn't ever sit at home and think like, man, 95 00:04:36,730 --> 00:04:38,349 Speaker 1: I just hope I get to write books one day. 96 00:04:38,730 --> 00:04:42,550 Speaker 1: I was a mommy blogger who would write about hair 97 00:04:42,830 --> 00:04:45,090 Speaker 1: and the Bible and taking my kids to the zoo. 98 00:04:45,610 --> 00:04:48,540 Speaker 1: And so when publishers came along and said like, hey, 99 00:04:48,580 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: there's something happening here, you know, you should really think 100 00:04:51,250 --> 00:04:53,710 Speaker 1: about writing books. I sort of felt again, like kind 101 00:04:53,730 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: of dragged by the Lord into this. And it's just 102 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,980 Speaker 1: interesting to like track that and trace that. And I 103 00:05:00,020 --> 00:05:02,140 Speaker 1: just have to say like at every step, I was 104 00:05:02,260 --> 00:05:06,170 Speaker 1: terrified and I have been terrified. I really stayed scared 105 00:05:06,260 --> 00:05:10,289 Speaker 1: the whole time. But again, somewhere along the way, I realized, okay, 106 00:05:10,330 --> 00:05:11,790 Speaker 1: if I'm the most scared person in the room, that 107 00:05:11,810 --> 00:05:14,310 Speaker 1: means I have the capacity to be exercising the most 108 00:05:14,370 --> 00:05:16,570 Speaker 1: bravery when I obey God, when I do what he's 109 00:05:16,630 --> 00:05:17,210 Speaker 1: asked me to do. 110 00:05:18,350 --> 00:05:20,370 Speaker 2: As soon as I saw the topic of your book 111 00:05:20,410 --> 00:05:22,190 Speaker 2: and I was to share this with you before we 112 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,870 Speaker 2: hit record, that it resonates with me so deeply because 113 00:05:24,910 --> 00:05:27,430 Speaker 2: my story is very similar. I never did dream about 114 00:05:27,470 --> 00:05:30,230 Speaker 2: being a podcaster. I never dreamed about writing books. I 115 00:05:30,270 --> 00:05:33,140 Speaker 2: remember even, and the listeners probably know this story, but 116 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,860 Speaker 2: even in college, I did want to be a broadcast journalist, 117 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 2: but I took a public speaking course and I couldn't 118 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:39,130 Speaker 2: do it. 119 00:05:39,260 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: I was so scared. 120 00:05:40,380 --> 00:05:42,570 Speaker 2: And so I dropped out of that major and And 121 00:05:42,650 --> 00:05:45,349 Speaker 2: ended up going to be a business major instead because 122 00:05:45,390 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 2: I thought I literally cannot do this. And then one 123 00:05:47,820 --> 00:05:50,580 Speaker 2: thing led to another. And here I am pretty much 124 00:05:50,660 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: doing the same thing and interviewing people just in a 125 00:05:53,820 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: different capacity. But I remember when I first started this 126 00:05:56,820 --> 00:06:00,550 Speaker 2: podcast almost nine years ago, the very beginning, I would 127 00:06:01,529 --> 00:06:04,610 Speaker 2: write everything out and I would read it verbatim. And 128 00:06:04,710 --> 00:06:06,789 Speaker 2: if I made any sort of hiccup, I would just 129 00:06:06,910 --> 00:06:08,850 Speaker 2: edit it and I would record it again and again 130 00:06:08,890 --> 00:06:11,739 Speaker 2: and again until it was perfect. And now it's still 131 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,450 Speaker 2: scary to do it. And I still don't want to 132 00:06:13,490 --> 00:06:15,210 Speaker 2: mess up. And I still want to steward it well. 133 00:06:15,610 --> 00:06:17,810 Speaker 2: But I'm more free to be myself. And I've said 134 00:06:17,850 --> 00:06:21,150 Speaker 2: so many times, especially going to speak somewhere at a 135 00:06:21,170 --> 00:06:24,740 Speaker 2: conference or on a stage, I still get so nervous 136 00:06:24,980 --> 00:06:27,380 Speaker 2: and almost sick to my stomach doing it. But I 137 00:06:27,420 --> 00:06:30,779 Speaker 2: have started to equate it that it's almost a humility. 138 00:06:30,860 --> 00:06:33,100 Speaker 2: And I think if I was really confident in myself, 139 00:06:33,140 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 2: that I would feel very prideful. But knowing it's such 140 00:06:35,430 --> 00:06:37,729 Speaker 2: a weakness in me that I feel like God has 141 00:06:37,790 --> 00:06:40,409 Speaker 2: me doing it because I am so dependent on Him. 142 00:06:40,490 --> 00:06:42,750 Speaker 2: Have you found that in your life too, that God 143 00:06:42,830 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 2: is using the weakness and that fear in a really good, 144 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:46,859 Speaker 2: healthy way on purpose? 145 00:06:47,820 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: Exactly. It's so interesting because as soon as you start 146 00:06:51,060 --> 00:06:52,620 Speaker 1: to talk about it, it makes me want to coach 147 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: you a little bit and be like, okay, hold on, 148 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:55,539 Speaker 1: let me ask you some follow-up questions about it. 149 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:56,690 Speaker 2: Right, right. 150 00:06:56,870 --> 00:06:59,230 Speaker 1: Because, okay, I love when people talk about public speaking. 151 00:06:59,250 --> 00:07:03,270 Speaker 1: And again, going back full circle to you saying like, hey, 152 00:07:03,430 --> 00:07:07,310 Speaker 1: your bio doesn't sound like you're scared. But even about 153 00:07:07,330 --> 00:07:09,590 Speaker 1: public speaking, I tell people all the time, if people 154 00:07:09,610 --> 00:07:11,340 Speaker 1: say like, hey, are you scared of public speaking? I 155 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: say like, yes, yes. If I'm going to get on 156 00:07:14,420 --> 00:07:16,460 Speaker 1: stage and talk to 2,000 people, if I'm going to 157 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,980 Speaker 1: get on stage and talk to the 150 people in 158 00:07:19,020 --> 00:07:22,140 Speaker 1: my church, the last thing I think before I get 159 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,300 Speaker 1: on stage is, this is a bad idea. This is 160 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: a bad idea. And the truth is, public speaking is 161 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,700 Speaker 1: the number one fear in America because it is terrifying. Hmm. 162 00:07:33,230 --> 00:07:35,370 Speaker 1: It does things to our cortisol. It does things to 163 00:07:35,410 --> 00:07:38,570 Speaker 1: our body, to our heart rate. It is actually terrifying 164 00:07:38,610 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: to be perceived. Those of us who speak on behalf 165 00:07:41,780 --> 00:07:44,300 Speaker 1: of the Lord, James 3.1 is going to tell us like, listen, 166 00:07:44,340 --> 00:07:47,020 Speaker 1: you should really, like, you should be hesitant about this 167 00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:50,660 Speaker 1: because there is some spiritual weight to it. And I 168 00:07:50,700 --> 00:07:54,500 Speaker 1: don't think that doing it more has made me more confident. 169 00:07:54,670 --> 00:07:56,369 Speaker 1: So what it made me want to ask you, Rachel, 170 00:07:56,410 --> 00:07:58,590 Speaker 1: because this has been true for me, is actually what's 171 00:07:58,730 --> 00:08:01,190 Speaker 1: made me like a little bit, at least a little 172 00:08:01,230 --> 00:08:05,270 Speaker 1: more grounded and certain of God's capacity to have his 173 00:08:05,310 --> 00:08:08,310 Speaker 1: power go forth in my weakness is messing up. And 174 00:08:08,370 --> 00:08:11,390 Speaker 1: it's actually been the times I've gotten on stage and 175 00:08:11,450 --> 00:08:14,300 Speaker 1: it's gone poorly. It's actually been the times that like, 176 00:08:14,380 --> 00:08:16,620 Speaker 1: maybe I've interviewed someone or I've been in an interview 177 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,730 Speaker 1: and I like have not really represented God. the Lord 178 00:08:19,770 --> 00:08:21,370 Speaker 1: well or the kingdom well in a way I wanted to. 179 00:08:21,430 --> 00:08:24,110 Speaker 1: And I've had to repent and experience the refreshment of 180 00:08:24,150 --> 00:08:27,510 Speaker 1: God's grace and then try again. I mean, that has 181 00:08:27,790 --> 00:08:31,300 Speaker 1: made me more confident. It's not my strength. It's not 182 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: like my good rips that have made me be like, 183 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: I got this. I'm not scared. I'm still so deeply 184 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:41,090 Speaker 1: humble and my body still experiences the fear. But I'm 185 00:08:41,230 --> 00:08:44,290 Speaker 1: actually able to step into more courage and bravery because 186 00:08:44,350 --> 00:08:48,150 Speaker 1: I've seen what God can do despite my weaknesses. I 187 00:08:48,190 --> 00:08:51,210 Speaker 1: wonder if like that has made it more comfortable for 188 00:08:51,250 --> 00:08:51,790 Speaker 1: you as well. 189 00:08:52,530 --> 00:08:55,150 Speaker 2: Although that's good. And I think you're spot on that 190 00:08:55,210 --> 00:08:58,170 Speaker 2: God shows up anyway. You know, he's the one doing 191 00:08:58,250 --> 00:09:00,370 Speaker 2: the work and he's the one equipping us and all 192 00:09:00,429 --> 00:09:03,110 Speaker 2: the things. And I think for me in my fear, 193 00:09:03,190 --> 00:09:05,670 Speaker 2: because more often than not, I'm fear of how I'm 194 00:09:05,730 --> 00:09:08,150 Speaker 2: going to be perceived by somebody else. You know, I'm 195 00:09:08,170 --> 00:09:11,410 Speaker 2: going to fail or I'm going to be rejected or, yeah, 196 00:09:11,450 --> 00:09:13,229 Speaker 2: people are going to talk bad about me on my 197 00:09:13,270 --> 00:09:14,530 Speaker 2: back or maybe to my face. 198 00:09:14,590 --> 00:09:15,030 Speaker 1: I don't know. 199 00:09:15,230 --> 00:09:18,469 Speaker 2: But I ended up coming to the conclusion that I 200 00:09:18,510 --> 00:09:22,689 Speaker 2: was more scared to not please God. I want to hear, 201 00:09:22,710 --> 00:09:24,530 Speaker 2: well done, good and faithful servant. 202 00:09:24,690 --> 00:09:25,069 Speaker 1: Come on. 203 00:09:25,070 --> 00:09:26,990 Speaker 2: So it's more of a now of a reverent fear 204 00:09:27,050 --> 00:09:29,330 Speaker 2: for the Lord that I'm going to be obedient regardless 205 00:09:29,370 --> 00:09:30,820 Speaker 2: of how I'm perceived by God. 206 00:09:31,260 --> 00:09:31,580 Speaker 1: Man. 207 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,540 Speaker 2: And so is that part of your story too? Yeah, 208 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,239 Speaker 2: I know you talk a lot about holy awe, so 209 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 2: I'd love for you to talk through that. 210 00:09:39,140 --> 00:09:42,949 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. It's so interesting. I've had to learn over 211 00:09:42,970 --> 00:09:46,270 Speaker 1: the years to even like physically sometimes look around at 212 00:09:46,290 --> 00:09:48,689 Speaker 1: the people around me, especially the people that I am, 213 00:09:49,110 --> 00:09:51,310 Speaker 1: you know, maybe working for their approval or I am 214 00:09:51,350 --> 00:09:54,190 Speaker 1: maybe like, it sounds crazy to say this, but what 215 00:09:54,210 --> 00:09:57,110 Speaker 1: I'm really doing is I'm worshiping them. You know, I'm 216 00:09:57,130 --> 00:09:59,470 Speaker 1: making them into little idols to say like, will they 217 00:09:59,510 --> 00:10:01,370 Speaker 1: love me? Will they think I'm smart? Will they think 218 00:10:01,429 --> 00:10:03,589 Speaker 1: I'm good? Will they want to be near me? You know, 219 00:10:03,610 --> 00:10:06,110 Speaker 1: and that in and of itself is idol worship. So 220 00:10:06,130 --> 00:10:09,130 Speaker 1: I have to like blink and look around and remind 221 00:10:09,150 --> 00:10:11,390 Speaker 1: myself by looking at them like, I am not going 222 00:10:11,410 --> 00:10:14,620 Speaker 1: to worship you forever. I am going to worship the 223 00:10:14,630 --> 00:10:16,460 Speaker 1: King of Kings and the Lord of Lords. I am 224 00:10:16,540 --> 00:10:19,069 Speaker 1: in fact going to worship you know, the alpha, the omega. 225 00:10:19,390 --> 00:10:21,220 Speaker 1: And so right now I have to make a decision 226 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: that helps me practice for heaven. And so it's interesting, 227 00:10:24,860 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: like that is what I've tried to see as that 228 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,810 Speaker 1: reverent awe rising that really is the antidote for human fear. 229 00:10:32,210 --> 00:10:34,870 Speaker 1: It's the only antidote for human fear, like pretending like 230 00:10:34,910 --> 00:10:38,370 Speaker 1: we're not scared doesn't work, you know, like gaslighting ourselves 231 00:10:38,550 --> 00:10:42,150 Speaker 1: into thinking like something doesn't matter, that doesn't work. But 232 00:10:42,620 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: saying like at the end of the day, at the 233 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,780 Speaker 1: end of all of the days, I am going to 234 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: be seated in the holy of holy places, worshiping him 235 00:10:52,420 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: at his throne. And that actually can, you know, rise 236 00:10:56,460 --> 00:10:58,940 Speaker 1: something up in me that makes me want to practice 237 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: that right now in the way that I make decisions 238 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 1: and the way that I show up and the way 239 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:03,719 Speaker 1: that I lead and the way that I love and 240 00:11:03,740 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: the way that I give. And then if I can 241 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: kind of practice that reverent awe now, it does do 242 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 1: something to my experience of fear. 243 00:11:12,050 --> 00:11:14,150 Speaker 2: I'm trying to think. It was somewhere on social media 244 00:11:14,170 --> 00:11:16,750 Speaker 2: that I saw somebody else talking about. They had had 245 00:11:16,770 --> 00:11:20,220 Speaker 2: a conversation with Forrest Frank, and they asked him, how 246 00:11:20,260 --> 00:11:23,980 Speaker 2: does it feel to worship with thousands and thousands of people? 247 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,140 Speaker 2: And his response was something to the extent of, it 248 00:11:28,179 --> 00:11:30,939 Speaker 2: feels like I'm worshiping in the car alone. 249 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: Come on. 250 00:11:32,980 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 2: Isn't that powerful? It still gives me the most chills, 251 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,059 Speaker 2: and it reminds me of what you were just saying 252 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,859 Speaker 2: about We really are doing all of this for an 253 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 2: audience of one, whether we're speaking to thousands or we're 254 00:11:42,660 --> 00:11:45,459 Speaker 2: alone in our house. That is who we are serving 255 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,410 Speaker 2: and that is who we're doing all this for. And 256 00:11:47,429 --> 00:11:50,410 Speaker 2: it made me think, too, as you were talking, that 257 00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:54,550 Speaker 2: there is so much at stake if we allow fear 258 00:11:54,610 --> 00:11:56,670 Speaker 2: to stop us. I think that's what the enemy would 259 00:11:56,730 --> 00:11:59,590 Speaker 2: love to do. is to allow us to stay stuck 260 00:11:59,630 --> 00:12:01,770 Speaker 2: in that fear and not do what God's calling us 261 00:12:01,850 --> 00:12:04,670 Speaker 2: to do. So talk to us about what's at stake. 262 00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 1: Well, I even love how you said it when you 263 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: asked that, when you said, like, I've decided to be 264 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,220 Speaker 1: more scared of not obeying God than I am of people. 265 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, that's a bar. That's a word. Like, I 266 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,350 Speaker 1: do want to be more scared of... of missing out 267 00:12:16,390 --> 00:12:18,290 Speaker 1: on what God has for me. And so I think 268 00:12:18,410 --> 00:12:20,050 Speaker 1: all of us at some point do have to start 269 00:12:20,070 --> 00:12:21,950 Speaker 1: to ask like, okay, well, what is it that I 270 00:12:21,990 --> 00:12:24,030 Speaker 1: perceive that God has for me? What is the Bible 271 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: says that he has for me? So starting there, we 272 00:12:26,100 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: would say, well, we know he's purchased eternal and abundant 273 00:12:28,620 --> 00:12:30,740 Speaker 1: life for us, that the enemy comes to steal, kill, 274 00:12:30,780 --> 00:12:32,939 Speaker 1: and destroy those things. So I would say the first 275 00:12:32,980 --> 00:12:36,710 Speaker 1: thing that is always at stake when it comes to 276 00:12:36,890 --> 00:12:38,650 Speaker 1: our fear and whether or not we're going to keep 277 00:12:38,730 --> 00:12:40,810 Speaker 1: obeying it, we're going to keep rehearsing it, we're going 278 00:12:40,830 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: to keep coming into alignment and agreement with it is 279 00:12:43,260 --> 00:12:45,610 Speaker 1: our experience of abundance. And at the end of the day, 280 00:12:45,770 --> 00:12:48,949 Speaker 1: Jesus died for us to experience abundance. So I do 281 00:12:48,990 --> 00:12:52,990 Speaker 1: not want to practically in any way, shape, or form 282 00:12:53,110 --> 00:12:55,790 Speaker 1: waste a drop of his blood by not taking all 283 00:12:55,830 --> 00:12:57,890 Speaker 1: the abundance that he's purchased for me. So I would 284 00:12:57,910 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: say spiritually, there's so much at stake. Our abundance, our 285 00:13:01,380 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: experience of freedom, our experience of heaven on earth, of 286 00:13:05,059 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: the kingdom coming to earth. But then I would say 287 00:13:07,890 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: And practically, if I could point out a couple of 288 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:12,500 Speaker 1: things that are at stake, I find that like when 289 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,179 Speaker 1: women don't process their fear, when they don't name it, 290 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,090 Speaker 1: when they just like assume like, well, Christians aren't supposed 291 00:13:18,110 --> 00:13:19,710 Speaker 1: to be afraid, so I'm not afraid. Or when they 292 00:13:19,730 --> 00:13:22,150 Speaker 1: say like, Jesus, don't worry. So I don't worry. But 293 00:13:22,170 --> 00:13:26,740 Speaker 1: they're actually deeply worried, you know, about everything. I find 294 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: what kind of practically is at stake is exactly what 295 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,670 Speaker 1: you said, like an experience of humility and communion with 296 00:13:32,770 --> 00:13:34,489 Speaker 1: one another. And so I think one of the first 297 00:13:34,530 --> 00:13:36,910 Speaker 1: things that we really see happening in culture right now 298 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,380 Speaker 1: is we have a lot of people who are very 299 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,230 Speaker 1: terrified who are pretending they're not terrified. And that pride 300 00:13:43,450 --> 00:13:47,410 Speaker 1: is crystallizing and keeping them from experiencing intimacy with God 301 00:13:47,510 --> 00:13:49,450 Speaker 1: and intimacy with one another. And so I would say 302 00:13:49,490 --> 00:13:52,329 Speaker 1: that is devastating. I would say another practical implication of 303 00:13:52,370 --> 00:13:56,620 Speaker 1: what's at stake is it's genuinely harming our bodies. It's 304 00:13:56,700 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: causing inflammation. It's causing anxiety. us to be in cycles 305 00:14:00,940 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: that are no longer healthy for our hormones. It's causing 306 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: us to not know how to live at ease, to 307 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: not know how to take a day off, to not 308 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: know how at the end of the day we can 309 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: say like, you know what, it's not all done and 310 00:14:11,540 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: I haven't figured it all out and I'm actually not 311 00:14:13,300 --> 00:14:15,059 Speaker 1: in control, but I believe God is and so I 312 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: can lay my head down and rest. And so I 313 00:14:16,940 --> 00:14:19,490 Speaker 1: would say it's harming us in a really physical and 314 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,630 Speaker 1: practical way. It's harming us in a communal way through pride. 315 00:14:22,750 --> 00:14:27,110 Speaker 1: But most of all, where I believe it's really causing 316 00:14:27,210 --> 00:14:30,620 Speaker 1: some pain for us is that when we kind of 317 00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:34,450 Speaker 1: walk through life, either pretending that we're not scared or 318 00:14:34,590 --> 00:14:38,250 Speaker 1: just over-identifying with our fear and not processing it with 319 00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:43,310 Speaker 1: the Lord, what it's costing us is experienced intimacy. Because 320 00:14:43,530 --> 00:14:47,010 Speaker 1: right now we have access to the spirit that hovered 321 00:14:47,170 --> 00:14:49,810 Speaker 1: over the water at creation. And right now we have 322 00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:53,250 Speaker 1: friendship and abundance with our friend and savior, Jesus. And 323 00:14:53,410 --> 00:14:56,380 Speaker 1: right now we have access to the comfort and the 324 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,590 Speaker 1: compassion of a heavenly father who when we are honest 325 00:14:59,650 --> 00:15:02,430 Speaker 1: about our fear with the Lord, with the triune Godhead. 326 00:15:02,490 --> 00:15:05,150 Speaker 1: And so when we either pretend like we're not scared 327 00:15:05,470 --> 00:15:07,710 Speaker 1: or we just say like, I'm just going to stay scared. 328 00:15:07,810 --> 00:15:09,390 Speaker 1: I'm just going to stay fearful. I'm just going to 329 00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: keep identifying as a fearful person. What we really are 330 00:15:13,010 --> 00:15:15,580 Speaker 1: missing out on is experienced intimacy with God. 331 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 2: Gosh, I have so many things to say, but we've 332 00:15:17,220 --> 00:15:18,980 Speaker 2: got to take a break. I meant to like five 333 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,420 Speaker 2: minutes ago and I just couldn't because I love this 334 00:15:21,460 --> 00:15:23,900 Speaker 2: conversation so much. But We are going to take a 335 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:25,980 Speaker 2: quick break to thank our sponsor. And when we come back, 336 00:15:26,020 --> 00:15:29,020 Speaker 2: we'll talk about why feeling afraid doesn't mean we failed 337 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:29,570 Speaker 2: at faith. 338 00:15:31,810 --> 00:15:32,390 Speaker 1: Welcome back. 339 00:15:32,510 --> 00:15:34,930 Speaker 2: I am talking with Jess Conley about her book, You 340 00:15:35,110 --> 00:15:38,170 Speaker 2: Can't Be Brave Until You Are Scared. I think one 341 00:15:38,210 --> 00:15:42,700 Speaker 2: of the natural reactions is if I feel afraid, I 342 00:15:43,020 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 2: don't have strong faith. And so how would you combat 343 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:47,060 Speaker 2: that line of thinking? 344 00:15:48,260 --> 00:15:49,900 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, first of all, we've got to know what 345 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: fear is. So fear is an autonomic response to a 346 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: perceived threat. It is something that happened naturally in our 347 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: bodies and even the synapses in our brain. What we 348 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: know is that feelings are essentially synapses in our brain firing, 349 00:16:02,220 --> 00:16:05,590 Speaker 1: and we can't choose them. We can direct our feelings. 350 00:16:05,750 --> 00:16:08,730 Speaker 1: We can speak truth to our feelings. We can process 351 00:16:08,770 --> 00:16:09,970 Speaker 1: our feelings. There's a lot of things we can do 352 00:16:09,990 --> 00:16:12,950 Speaker 1: with our feelings, but we actually can't decide whether we 353 00:16:12,990 --> 00:16:15,770 Speaker 1: want to have them or not. So whether that's anger 354 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: or whether that's jealousy or whether that's excitement, those are 355 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: autonomic experiences that are happening in our brain. So the 356 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,100 Speaker 1: first thing for anyone who's like, oh, I'm not supposed 357 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: to feel fear, I would say there is actually a 358 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: biblical and a theological difference than when the Lord is 359 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:33,540 Speaker 1: going to tell us in the Old Testament and the 360 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: New Testament, do not fear. It is actually not the 361 00:16:36,180 --> 00:16:39,470 Speaker 1: same thing as do not feel fear. So that's the 362 00:16:39,490 --> 00:16:41,990 Speaker 1: first thing I would say. I would follow that up with, 363 00:16:42,050 --> 00:16:44,609 Speaker 1: if anybody was playing devil's advocate and they were saying like, oh, 364 00:16:44,630 --> 00:16:46,710 Speaker 1: Christians aren't supposed to be scared. The other thing I 365 00:16:46,730 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: would say is like, how is that working for you? 366 00:16:48,820 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: How's that working out? The most faith-filled people I know 367 00:16:53,550 --> 00:16:57,330 Speaker 1: are terrified. The most faith-filled people I know care about 368 00:16:57,350 --> 00:17:00,230 Speaker 1: what's happening around them. My husband, I think, you know, 369 00:17:00,870 --> 00:17:02,580 Speaker 1: I know him the best on this planet. And I 370 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,860 Speaker 1: think like, he loved God like nobody else I know. 371 00:17:05,060 --> 00:17:06,820 Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, if he looked 372 00:17:06,859 --> 00:17:08,340 Speaker 1: at me and he said like, Jess, I don't care 373 00:17:08,380 --> 00:17:10,540 Speaker 1: what happens to you. I'm not worried about what happens 374 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,940 Speaker 1: to you. If I got a diagnosis and he was like, 375 00:17:13,380 --> 00:17:16,530 Speaker 1: no worries, just faith. I don't care at all. I'd 376 00:17:16,550 --> 00:17:19,629 Speaker 1: be like, are you well, sir? Are you okay? Do 377 00:17:19,650 --> 00:17:20,530 Speaker 1: you love me at all? 378 00:17:21,190 --> 00:17:22,070 Speaker 2: Right. Do you even care? 379 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: No, we're scared about what we care about. So we 380 00:17:26,580 --> 00:17:29,450 Speaker 1: need to understand, first of all, there is a biblical 381 00:17:29,530 --> 00:17:33,910 Speaker 1: and a theological difference between being afraid, acting afraid, coming 382 00:17:33,950 --> 00:17:37,450 Speaker 1: into alignment with fear, and feeling fear. And so that's 383 00:17:37,530 --> 00:17:40,270 Speaker 1: really the first step of that process. And then, so 384 00:17:40,430 --> 00:17:43,770 Speaker 1: once we begin to realize, like, okay, feeling fear, experiencing 385 00:17:43,850 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: that fear, that autonomic response to a perceived threat, then 386 00:17:47,220 --> 00:17:49,169 Speaker 1: I get to decide what I want to do with it. 387 00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:51,310 Speaker 1: And if I could just give one more biblical example, 388 00:17:51,550 --> 00:17:53,869 Speaker 1: the person I always point to in scripture that really 389 00:17:53,950 --> 00:17:57,389 Speaker 1: encourages me in this is Jesus. And Jesus in the 390 00:17:57,430 --> 00:18:01,030 Speaker 1: Garden of Gethsemane is literally sweating blood. He's going to 391 00:18:01,070 --> 00:18:04,510 Speaker 1: his friends and saying, please stay up with me, pray 392 00:18:04,590 --> 00:18:06,169 Speaker 1: with me. And the word is going to tell us 393 00:18:06,190 --> 00:18:09,710 Speaker 1: that he is deeply troubled. And when he prays to 394 00:18:09,770 --> 00:18:12,030 Speaker 1: his father in the Garden of Gethsemane, he says, if 395 00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:14,859 Speaker 1: there is any other way this can happen, please do it. 396 00:18:15,050 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: But not my will, yours be done. And so I 397 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,100 Speaker 1: went to every theologian I knew and I said, tell 398 00:18:20,140 --> 00:18:23,650 Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. But what I see is happening 399 00:18:23,710 --> 00:18:27,250 Speaker 1: here is that Jesus is experiencing fear. And they said, absolutely. 400 00:18:27,630 --> 00:18:30,860 Speaker 1: He's fully God and he's fully human. And so would 401 00:18:30,890 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: he experience an autonomic response to a perceived threat? He was. 402 00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:36,790 Speaker 1: Not only was he going to die and he knew it, 403 00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:39,060 Speaker 1: not only was it going to be painful, not only 404 00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:40,859 Speaker 1: was he going to be betrayed by his friends and 405 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,940 Speaker 1: he knew it, but also he understood the spiritual implication 406 00:18:44,980 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: of taking on the sins of the world. And so 407 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: he was having an autonomic response to a very real 408 00:18:50,340 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 1: perceived threat. But what he does is In the face 409 00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: of that is that he surrenders to God's plan and 410 00:18:55,900 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: he courageously goes to the cross on our behalf. And 411 00:18:58,140 --> 00:19:01,629 Speaker 1: so I think we get to ask ourselves, okay, if 412 00:19:01,830 --> 00:19:05,169 Speaker 1: feeling fear is not necessarily a sin, what then do 413 00:19:05,230 --> 00:19:07,250 Speaker 1: I want to do about it in the face of it? 414 00:19:08,530 --> 00:19:11,620 Speaker 2: Okay, so answer that question for us. When we feel fear, 415 00:19:11,859 --> 00:19:13,980 Speaker 2: what do we do in the face of it? 416 00:19:14,770 --> 00:19:17,190 Speaker 1: Okay, the great news is this. It's easier than we think. 417 00:19:17,330 --> 00:19:19,970 Speaker 1: The phrase I say very often in the book is 418 00:19:20,190 --> 00:19:24,670 Speaker 1: naming it is 90%. And I think the reason why, 419 00:19:24,850 --> 00:19:28,369 Speaker 1: actually saying out loud, I am scared of blank. The 420 00:19:28,450 --> 00:19:31,410 Speaker 1: reason why that works so well is number one, like 421 00:19:31,490 --> 00:19:33,910 Speaker 1: we immediately kick the enemy of our souls in the teeth. 422 00:19:34,350 --> 00:19:36,429 Speaker 1: The enemy of our souls is like, hey, I want 423 00:19:36,450 --> 00:19:37,949 Speaker 1: you to act like you're not scared. I want you 424 00:19:37,970 --> 00:19:39,570 Speaker 1: to keep this locked inside. So as soon as we 425 00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:41,369 Speaker 1: start naming it, we kick the enemy in the teeth 426 00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:43,149 Speaker 1: and we start to experience a little bit of victory. 427 00:19:43,530 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: But then also, when we name it, a lot of times, 428 00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:49,350 Speaker 1: whatever we're scared of loses a little bit of power. 429 00:19:49,810 --> 00:19:51,970 Speaker 1: So once we say it out loud to somebody else, 430 00:19:52,090 --> 00:19:54,710 Speaker 1: without shaming ourselves, I'm not saying like, oh, I'm scared 431 00:19:54,730 --> 00:19:57,400 Speaker 1: about Blake, but I know that's stupid. Once I say 432 00:19:57,420 --> 00:19:59,780 Speaker 1: it out loud, it loses a little bit of its power. 433 00:19:59,859 --> 00:20:02,820 Speaker 1: And then I get to process and say like, okay, well, 434 00:20:03,060 --> 00:20:05,899 Speaker 1: is this an actualized fear? Is this something that's happened 435 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: in the past and has the capacity to happen again? 436 00:20:08,380 --> 00:20:10,660 Speaker 1: Then I get to ask like, is this an irrational fear? 437 00:20:11,220 --> 00:20:13,700 Speaker 1: Can I trace maybe where it came from? Am I 438 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,859 Speaker 1: scared of this because I've seen it happen to somebody 439 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: in the past or because of some memory that I 440 00:20:17,859 --> 00:20:20,220 Speaker 1: have or maybe because of a dream I had or 441 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,570 Speaker 1: some errant thing that happened that like got stuck in 442 00:20:22,609 --> 00:20:25,990 Speaker 1: my brain? And then once we've kind of processed all 443 00:20:26,010 --> 00:20:28,490 Speaker 1: of that, which can actually be a pretty quick process, 444 00:20:28,930 --> 00:20:32,149 Speaker 1: then we get to say like, okay, what is God 445 00:20:32,230 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: inviting me to do in this moment? that looks like courage. 446 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,659 Speaker 1: What does the faithful step forward look like that? And 447 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,139 Speaker 1: the reason why I can't answer that for everyone is 448 00:20:41,180 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: because it's going to look different in every situation. It's 449 00:20:44,510 --> 00:20:46,350 Speaker 1: going to look different in all our different lives and 450 00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:49,149 Speaker 1: in different seasons. But the very beautiful thing is we 451 00:20:49,170 --> 00:20:52,270 Speaker 1: get to do that exploration again with God. So it's 452 00:20:52,490 --> 00:20:57,970 Speaker 1: more intimacy expressed. to us about the role of community 453 00:20:58,210 --> 00:21:01,270 Speaker 1: in this process. It seems to me it's really important 454 00:21:01,330 --> 00:21:04,449 Speaker 1: to surround yourself with people that will help you to 455 00:21:04,490 --> 00:21:07,739 Speaker 1: be courageous and people that are also being courageous around you. 456 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:09,139 Speaker 1: And I think that that's one of the things that 457 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 1: you're doing, being honest and saying, look, I'm walking in 458 00:21:11,980 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: obedience to what the Lord is calling me to do, 459 00:21:14,220 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: and it is still not easy. And so I think 460 00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: by just sharing that, it almost frees everybody else to say, 461 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,270 Speaker 1: me too. You know, okay, if she can do it, 462 00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: I can do it too. Absolutely. It's so funny. So 463 00:21:26,580 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: I was at the gym this morning with a friend. 464 00:21:28,100 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: I have a friend that I work out with a 465 00:21:29,310 --> 00:21:31,290 Speaker 1: couple times a week. We worked out together for years. 466 00:21:31,490 --> 00:21:33,590 Speaker 1: And we went to the gym this morning and I 467 00:21:33,609 --> 00:21:36,109 Speaker 1: was telling her that I saw a new therapist. I 468 00:21:36,109 --> 00:21:38,369 Speaker 1: was like, oh, you know, I've been knowing I need 469 00:21:38,410 --> 00:21:40,590 Speaker 1: to see a therapist and I haven't found a new 470 00:21:40,670 --> 00:21:42,909 Speaker 1: one for a while. And I finally went to see 471 00:21:42,930 --> 00:21:44,870 Speaker 1: a new therapist yesterday. And she was like, oh, I'm 472 00:21:44,890 --> 00:21:46,510 Speaker 1: so proud of you. That's so good. And I was 473 00:21:46,550 --> 00:21:49,629 Speaker 1: telling her more about the experience. And she said, you know, 474 00:21:49,670 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: as you're telling me this, I'm really realizing I'm I 475 00:21:52,619 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 1: probably need to go back to therapy too. And she 476 00:21:54,460 --> 00:21:56,690 Speaker 1: was like, you know, this is like really inspiring. And 477 00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:58,270 Speaker 1: she was like, I guess if I'm honest, I've been 478 00:21:58,310 --> 00:22:01,370 Speaker 1: like a little scared. I was like, totally. Yeah, it's 479 00:22:01,590 --> 00:22:03,790 Speaker 1: super vulnerable. You know, it's not always easy to find 480 00:22:03,810 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: a therapist. It's not cheap. And she said, you talking 481 00:22:06,940 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: about it is making me feel more brave. And she said, 482 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: I'm almost. And she couldn't find the word. She was like, 483 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: I'm almost. And I said, encouraged? And she said, yeah. 484 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,500 Speaker 1: And then she said, that's the first time I've realized 485 00:22:20,540 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: the word courage is in the word encourage. And I said, yes, 486 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: it's literally what encouraged means. It means to impart courage. 487 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 1: We think about like, I'm going to encourage her. I'm 488 00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:31,780 Speaker 1: going to tell her like, you got this girl, blah, blah, blah. 489 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,180 Speaker 1: You're so cute. You're so smart. 490 00:22:33,220 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 2: I love you. 491 00:22:33,580 --> 00:22:37,180 Speaker 1: But like to encourage someone is to impart courage to 492 00:22:37,859 --> 00:22:40,860 Speaker 1: in them. And how we often do that is by 493 00:22:40,940 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: letting them see us be brave. And they can't see 494 00:22:44,380 --> 00:22:47,260 Speaker 1: us be brave if we're pretending like we're not scared. 495 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,820 Speaker 1: If someone is seeing us and we're just doing things 496 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,900 Speaker 1: that might actually be brave, but they don't actually like 497 00:22:52,060 --> 00:22:54,780 Speaker 1: see the vulnerability and the weakness in it for us, 498 00:22:55,100 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 1: what it could incite in them actually is shame. What 499 00:22:57,940 --> 00:23:00,100 Speaker 1: they could feel is like, oh, that's so easy for her. 500 00:23:00,180 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: That works out for her. Must be nice. But when 501 00:23:02,780 --> 00:23:04,619 Speaker 1: people see us do the whole thing, when they see 502 00:23:04,660 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: us say like, this is actually terrifying. And I'm still 503 00:23:08,060 --> 00:23:09,980 Speaker 1: going to do it because Lord has invited me into it. 504 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: And I'm going to experience His nearness and His wholeness 505 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,940 Speaker 1: and His presence and His peace and His power. And 506 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,580 Speaker 1: then they see it that incites courage in them. And 507 00:23:16,619 --> 00:23:19,220 Speaker 1: then also, certainly, you know, there's the power of us 508 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,070 Speaker 1: just mirroring back to each other and saying to each other, like, hey, 509 00:23:22,109 --> 00:23:24,470 Speaker 1: you are being so brave right now. I am so 510 00:23:24,570 --> 00:23:26,669 Speaker 1: proud of you. I see you doing this thing that 511 00:23:26,690 --> 00:23:30,290 Speaker 1: looks terrifying. And while our friend might feel terrified when 512 00:23:30,330 --> 00:23:32,550 Speaker 1: we mirror back to her and say, like, no, that's courage. 513 00:23:32,630 --> 00:23:36,180 Speaker 1: That's bravery. then she's going to be empowered by that 514 00:23:36,260 --> 00:23:39,060 Speaker 1: and begin to proclaim God's power more frequently in her life. 515 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,909 Speaker 2: I'm thinking about when we are courageous and we feel 516 00:23:44,010 --> 00:23:46,629 Speaker 2: like we are being obedient to the Lord and it 517 00:23:46,770 --> 00:23:50,590 Speaker 2: doesn't go well or like we thought that it would. 518 00:23:51,570 --> 00:23:53,930 Speaker 1: You know, it's one thing to be courageous. It's like, oh, Lord, 519 00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: I see the fruit. I see the harvest. I'm going 520 00:23:55,859 --> 00:23:58,220 Speaker 1: to keep going because this felt so good. 521 00:23:58,300 --> 00:24:00,780 Speaker 2: I see how you showed up. You know, there was 522 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:05,100 Speaker 2: results there. As opposed to, I walked forward in courage, 523 00:24:05,180 --> 00:24:07,310 Speaker 2: I was so scared, and I fell flat on my face, 524 00:24:07,380 --> 00:24:11,010 Speaker 2: and I didn't see fruit or harvest immediately. Talk to 525 00:24:11,050 --> 00:24:12,470 Speaker 2: us about that scenario. 526 00:24:13,250 --> 00:24:16,210 Speaker 1: Yeah, so good. What a great question. Well, you know, 527 00:24:16,290 --> 00:24:18,510 Speaker 1: it's so funny. I'm a Bible girl. I love to 528 00:24:18,530 --> 00:24:20,850 Speaker 1: study the Word. And I think you're asking this really 529 00:24:20,869 --> 00:24:23,950 Speaker 1: important question that we ask about every different thing. And 530 00:24:23,970 --> 00:24:26,750 Speaker 1: that is essentially like, what is true about God when 531 00:24:26,790 --> 00:24:28,770 Speaker 1: life is not up and to the right? You know? 532 00:24:29,220 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: What's true about God? How can I hold on to something? 533 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:37,550 Speaker 1: And this is like a quintessential Christian problem. I followed God. 534 00:24:37,570 --> 00:24:39,590 Speaker 1: I obeyed God. It didn't go well. I get mad 535 00:24:39,609 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: at God. And it's very normative for all of us. 536 00:24:43,310 --> 00:24:46,060 Speaker 1: I don't say that to downplay it in any way, shape, 537 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: or form, because that is the question of being human. 538 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,230 Speaker 1: That is the wrestle of being a person of who 539 00:24:53,270 --> 00:24:55,710 Speaker 1: can only see in part, who can't see in full 540 00:24:55,910 --> 00:24:57,790 Speaker 1: quite yet, who lives in this now and not yet 541 00:24:57,830 --> 00:25:00,170 Speaker 1: of God's kingdom. But I think back to our friend 542 00:25:00,210 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: and Savior Jesus, and this is what I was saying, 543 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: I'm a Bible girl, because what's wild about the Bible 544 00:25:03,980 --> 00:25:06,859 Speaker 1: is like, this is such a quintessential human Christian problem. 545 00:25:07,300 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 1: And when it happens to us, it feels so new. 546 00:25:09,700 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 1: It feels so novel. And we're like, this is the 547 00:25:12,220 --> 00:25:13,699 Speaker 1: first person that's ever happened to you. And then we 548 00:25:13,740 --> 00:25:15,310 Speaker 1: get a little annoyed at scripture and we get a 549 00:25:15,330 --> 00:25:17,770 Speaker 1: little annoyed at the Lord. And then I think back 550 00:25:17,810 --> 00:25:20,390 Speaker 1: to our friend and Savior Jesus as he is walking 551 00:25:20,450 --> 00:25:22,510 Speaker 1: to the Garden of Gethsemane. Some of my favorite chapters 552 00:25:22,530 --> 00:25:25,490 Speaker 1: in the Bible, John 13, 14, 15, 16. Actually, the 553 00:25:26,010 --> 00:25:28,250 Speaker 1: physical Bible I'm using right now, I have lost those 554 00:25:28,290 --> 00:25:31,570 Speaker 1: pages because I had just worn those particular pages out 555 00:25:31,590 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: and now they fell out somewhere. But John 13, 14, 15, 556 00:25:34,260 --> 00:25:39,570 Speaker 1: 16 is some of Jesus's best teaching and Our best 557 00:25:39,609 --> 00:25:43,129 Speaker 1: understanding is that in context, he's saying these things as 558 00:25:43,170 --> 00:25:45,030 Speaker 1: he's walking from the upper room to the Garden of 559 00:25:45,090 --> 00:25:48,189 Speaker 1: Gethsemane to his disciples. And I just constantly am reminded 560 00:25:48,250 --> 00:25:50,149 Speaker 1: of this one thing that he says to his friends 561 00:25:50,310 --> 00:25:53,170 Speaker 1: as he's walking to be betrayed. And he says, take heart. 562 00:25:54,020 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: In this world, you will have trouble. And so we 563 00:25:56,900 --> 00:26:00,490 Speaker 1: look at the Lord and we're like, okay, I obeyed you. I, 564 00:26:00,750 --> 00:26:03,409 Speaker 1: you know, why didn't you come through? Why wasn't it 565 00:26:03,470 --> 00:26:05,670 Speaker 1: up and into the right? I was courageous. Why didn't 566 00:26:05,710 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: it go well? But then we look at the life 567 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: of Jesus and we look at his words and he's like, no, no, 568 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,479 Speaker 1: that's actually how it's going to be sometimes. Sometimes you're 569 00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: going to hear my voice. You're going to obey me perfectly. 570 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,550 Speaker 1: And it's going to go down into the left. It's 571 00:26:18,570 --> 00:26:20,570 Speaker 1: going to look like failure. You got to take heart. 572 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:23,699 Speaker 1: because sometimes it's going to look like that. And I 573 00:26:23,770 --> 00:26:26,369 Speaker 1: think the best thing that we can do as believers 574 00:26:26,570 --> 00:26:30,490 Speaker 1: is again, not gaslight ourselves into being like, okay, it's fine. 575 00:26:30,570 --> 00:26:33,010 Speaker 1: No big deal. I think we have to process that 576 00:26:33,030 --> 00:26:36,340 Speaker 1: with them. I think sometimes I always say like anger 577 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,580 Speaker 1: with the Lord is intimacy expressed. So I am never 578 00:26:39,660 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: scared of somebody getting a little angry at God. I 579 00:26:42,020 --> 00:26:46,199 Speaker 1: am never scared of somebody even to, displaying and communicating 580 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,380 Speaker 1: their dismay to God, their discouragement to God. It's when 581 00:26:49,420 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: people stop talking to God about their anger or when 582 00:26:52,060 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: they stop talking to God about their discouragement that I 583 00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:57,419 Speaker 1: get nervous. And so I would say we process it 584 00:26:57,460 --> 00:26:59,110 Speaker 1: with the Lord. We say like, man, this was hard. 585 00:26:59,710 --> 00:27:02,230 Speaker 1: I obeyed you. I did the courageous thing. It sure 586 00:27:02,270 --> 00:27:05,090 Speaker 1: seemed to not be fruitful. That was difficult for me. 587 00:27:05,109 --> 00:27:07,030 Speaker 1: I think we process it with Him. And then I 588 00:27:07,810 --> 00:27:09,189 Speaker 1: think in the name of Jesus, we get back on 589 00:27:09,210 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: the horse. And we remember, take heart. In this world, 590 00:27:11,740 --> 00:27:12,410 Speaker 1: you will have trouble. 591 00:27:12,590 --> 00:27:15,609 Speaker 2: How has this concept and all that God has taught 592 00:27:15,670 --> 00:27:19,050 Speaker 2: you about fear and courage, how has this changed the 593 00:27:19,090 --> 00:27:21,209 Speaker 2: way that you have parented your own children? How are 594 00:27:21,250 --> 00:27:24,199 Speaker 2: you coaching them? And then even I'm even thinking in 595 00:27:24,260 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 2: my motherhood, I think if I'm honest, what I'm most 596 00:27:27,180 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 2: scared of is the future of my children. Not because 597 00:27:29,660 --> 00:27:32,459 Speaker 2: they're making terrible decisions, but just because they're teenagers right 598 00:27:32,500 --> 00:27:35,090 Speaker 2: now and every decision matters so much. I feel like 599 00:27:35,150 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 2: it's like life altering. So maybe it's kind of two 600 00:27:37,859 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 2: questions in one. How do you coach your children and 601 00:27:40,060 --> 00:27:43,380 Speaker 2: then almost coach yourself to not be so scared for 602 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 2: your children? 603 00:27:43,950 --> 00:27:47,010 Speaker 1: Yeah, so good. Okay, well, I'll try to answer in 604 00:27:47,050 --> 00:27:49,450 Speaker 1: really simple ways. I would say, how do I coach 605 00:27:49,490 --> 00:27:54,550 Speaker 1: myself as it pertains to fear of my kids' lives? 606 00:27:55,130 --> 00:27:57,270 Speaker 1: Number one, I name it. I say it out loud. 607 00:27:57,330 --> 00:27:59,510 Speaker 1: And I mean, I get real specific with the Lord. 608 00:27:59,530 --> 00:28:01,810 Speaker 1: I tend to write out my fears almost every single 609 00:28:01,830 --> 00:28:03,429 Speaker 1: day to just capture them with the Lord when I 610 00:28:03,470 --> 00:28:05,350 Speaker 1: start my time with the Lord. And so I'll say 611 00:28:05,390 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: things like, I'm scared they're never going to follow you. 612 00:28:08,980 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: Or I'm scared so-and-so is, you know, hanging out with 613 00:28:12,140 --> 00:28:14,780 Speaker 1: the wrong people. Or I'm scared, you know, this one 614 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: doesn't really see that they're being selfish with their friends 615 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,590 Speaker 1: and it's going to impact. I get real specific with 616 00:28:19,609 --> 00:28:23,660 Speaker 1: the Lord. Because the more specifically that I name my fear, 617 00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: then the more specifically I can speak truth to it 618 00:28:25,940 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: and the more specifically I can kind of pray and 619 00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:29,830 Speaker 1: release it and remember what's mine to hold and what's 620 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:31,790 Speaker 1: not mine to hold. But all that being said, the 621 00:28:31,850 --> 00:28:34,390 Speaker 1: quick encouragement that I give my heart as it pertains 622 00:28:34,410 --> 00:28:36,670 Speaker 1: to my own fear about them is a phrase I've 623 00:28:36,690 --> 00:28:39,850 Speaker 1: started saying, and it is, I cannot and would not 624 00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: choose to save my kids from their testimony. I cannot 625 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,660 Speaker 1: and would not. It's horrible. It's horrible. I'm saying it 626 00:28:48,700 --> 00:28:51,540 Speaker 1: with you. It's horrible. I do not say that cute. 627 00:28:51,740 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: I don't say that funny. I don't say that sweet. 628 00:28:55,530 --> 00:28:58,030 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, I believe in 629 00:28:58,050 --> 00:29:00,430 Speaker 1: a good, kind, sovereign God who is either good or 630 00:29:00,490 --> 00:29:03,130 Speaker 1: not and is either sovereign or not. And so in 631 00:29:03,170 --> 00:29:05,910 Speaker 1: the midst of this story, which I believe is our kids, 632 00:29:06,290 --> 00:29:09,470 Speaker 1: their own life and their own testimony, I just constantly 633 00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:12,219 Speaker 1: repeat to myself, like, Jess, You cannot. First of all, 634 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: you can't. Second of all, if you really, really wanted to, 635 00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:17,580 Speaker 1: you would not want to. You cannot and you would 636 00:29:17,620 --> 00:29:20,100 Speaker 1: not ever want to save your kids from their testimony. Now, 637 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,060 Speaker 1: how I coach my kids in regards to fear is 638 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,490 Speaker 1: I will say, like, beginning to research these things, there's 639 00:29:26,510 --> 00:29:29,990 Speaker 1: just two phrases that I've removed from my vocabulary. And 640 00:29:30,590 --> 00:29:33,210 Speaker 1: there's just one phrase that I've inputted into my vocabulary 641 00:29:33,250 --> 00:29:35,470 Speaker 1: that really helps. I'm a phrase girl. I believe that 642 00:29:35,490 --> 00:29:37,610 Speaker 1: if we have a couple good catchphrases, and especially if 643 00:29:37,630 --> 00:29:40,970 Speaker 1: they're biblically and theologically true, it can be really helpful. 644 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: So I've removed these two phrases from my vocabulary as 645 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,820 Speaker 1: it pertains to my kids. I don't say anymore, don't 646 00:29:46,860 --> 00:29:50,260 Speaker 1: be scared. When they're scared, if they were scared about 647 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,180 Speaker 1: something happening at school or scared about something happening with 648 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: one of their friends or scared about something happening in 649 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: our life or And I used to say like, oh, 650 00:29:58,220 --> 00:30:00,290 Speaker 1: don't be scared. Don't be scared. Now I'll say like, hey, 651 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,390 Speaker 1: tell me what you're scared about. And the other phrase 652 00:30:03,430 --> 00:30:07,170 Speaker 1: I removed also is don't cry. Instead of saying, oh, 653 00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:09,790 Speaker 1: don't cry. Yes, I would never say don't cry. I 654 00:30:09,790 --> 00:30:12,210 Speaker 1: would say like, let it out. Instead of saying don't cry, 655 00:30:12,270 --> 00:30:14,550 Speaker 1: I say let it out. Because actually the truth is 656 00:30:14,590 --> 00:30:17,250 Speaker 1: our kids are living in a terrifying world. And the world, 657 00:30:17,410 --> 00:30:19,170 Speaker 1: I believe, is actually not any more terrifying than it 658 00:30:19,230 --> 00:30:20,950 Speaker 1: was 20 years ago or 30 years ago. But I 659 00:30:20,970 --> 00:30:24,350 Speaker 1: believe we are much more exposed to how terrifying it is. 660 00:30:25,380 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: And I believe our kids are much more exposed to 661 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,460 Speaker 1: how terrifying the world is than they were a couple 662 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: of decades ago, than kids were a couple of decades ago. 663 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: So I try to just let them feel those things. 664 00:30:33,780 --> 00:30:35,660 Speaker 1: I say, let it out when it comes to their emotions. 665 00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:36,930 Speaker 1: And when it comes to their fear, I say, like, 666 00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:38,830 Speaker 1: tell me what you're scared about, because then we can 667 00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:40,910 Speaker 1: process it and figure out what courage looks like. And 668 00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:44,310 Speaker 1: then the phrase I've inputted is very simple, and you 669 00:30:44,330 --> 00:30:46,790 Speaker 1: won't be surprised. And it's just, you can't be brave 670 00:30:46,810 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: until you're scared. So when my kids are scared, I 671 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: literally just say that all the time. And I'll say, like, 672 00:30:51,460 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: look at you being so courageous. look at you being 673 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: so courageous. I'm so proud of you. And mirroring that 674 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,500 Speaker 1: to them and letting them see it helps them actually 675 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: form new neural pathways. So every time now they're experiencing 676 00:31:03,660 --> 00:31:07,380 Speaker 1: fear or anxiety, their brain gets to learn like, this 677 00:31:07,780 --> 00:31:12,900 Speaker 1: is courage. This is courage. This is beautiful. And whether, again, 678 00:31:12,940 --> 00:31:16,729 Speaker 1: it has a fruitful impact or not, they are learning 679 00:31:16,850 --> 00:31:18,450 Speaker 1: that the fruit is the courage. 680 00:31:18,750 --> 00:31:21,670 Speaker 2: That is so good. Well, I need to cry myself 681 00:31:21,970 --> 00:31:24,150 Speaker 2: and go grab a Kleenex. But we're going to take 682 00:31:24,210 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 2: another brief break to hear a word from our sponsor. 683 00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 2: And when we come back, we'll talk about what courage 684 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,180 Speaker 2: looks like in daily life and how to take a 685 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:37,219 Speaker 2: step forward when fear is still present. Welcome back. I'm 686 00:31:37,270 --> 00:31:40,110 Speaker 2: talking with Jess Connolly about her book, You Can't Be 687 00:31:40,150 --> 00:31:43,270 Speaker 2: Brave Until You're Scared. So I'm just thinking about the 688 00:31:43,290 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 2: woman listening right now that is saying, Jess, I am 689 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,980 Speaker 2: super scared. I feel like God is calling me to 690 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 2: do something or whatever it may be, whatever she may 691 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,370 Speaker 2: be scared of. What is one small step she can 692 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:56,690 Speaker 2: make today? 693 00:31:57,510 --> 00:32:00,209 Speaker 1: Well, maybe instead of giving her a small step, I 694 00:32:00,230 --> 00:32:02,310 Speaker 1: want to tell her a small step she's already taken 695 00:32:02,950 --> 00:32:06,790 Speaker 1: because she hit play on your podcast and surrendering and 696 00:32:06,890 --> 00:32:12,050 Speaker 1: submitting to new ideas is brave. And so I want 697 00:32:12,070 --> 00:32:14,530 Speaker 1: to just tell her that right now. Like we don't 698 00:32:14,710 --> 00:32:16,650 Speaker 1: think like, oh, I'm scared. I need to hit play 699 00:32:16,690 --> 00:32:20,190 Speaker 1: on a podcast or even I think sometimes the synapses 700 00:32:20,210 --> 00:32:21,890 Speaker 1: in our brain are so fast that we don't even 701 00:32:21,930 --> 00:32:24,190 Speaker 1: really like pay attention to what's happening in our bodies. 702 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,950 Speaker 1: But putting yourself in any space where you say like, 703 00:32:26,970 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: I will allow my mind to be changed. I will 704 00:32:30,140 --> 00:32:31,780 Speaker 1: allow my life to be changed. I'll allow my heart 705 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,260 Speaker 1: to be changed. I'll allow maybe my family to be changed. 706 00:32:34,650 --> 00:32:38,510 Speaker 1: with some piece of information, that is spiritual formation and 707 00:32:38,550 --> 00:32:40,170 Speaker 1: that is brave. So I want to just say that 708 00:32:40,190 --> 00:32:42,690 Speaker 1: to her right now, like you already did a brave thing, 709 00:32:42,900 --> 00:32:45,820 Speaker 1: which is pretty incredible and pretty cool. But if I 710 00:32:45,860 --> 00:32:48,140 Speaker 1: were going to give her a practical step, I would 711 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,420 Speaker 1: say outside of buying the book, because it'll give you 712 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: a long form path to doing this in different areas 713 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,180 Speaker 1: of your life, I would say take out a sheet 714 00:32:56,220 --> 00:32:58,890 Speaker 1: of paper and for three to five minutes, write down 715 00:32:58,970 --> 00:33:01,970 Speaker 1: everything you're scared of. Don't try to fix it. Don't 716 00:33:02,020 --> 00:33:04,700 Speaker 1: try to shame it. Don't try to categorize them. But 717 00:33:04,740 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: just write down everything that you're currently scared of and 718 00:33:07,460 --> 00:33:10,660 Speaker 1: see what happens in your body. See what happens in 719 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: your spirit as you begin to name it and see 720 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,380 Speaker 1: if that doesn't make you curious to keep going in 721 00:33:15,420 --> 00:33:16,060 Speaker 1: the process. 722 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,150 Speaker 2: That's good. You're already winning today because you're listening to 723 00:33:20,190 --> 00:33:21,590 Speaker 2: this episode. So well done. 724 00:33:21,610 --> 00:33:24,470 Speaker 1: Yes, you're already brave. Yes, yes. 725 00:33:24,530 --> 00:33:27,410 Speaker 2: So good. Well, on the Love Offering Podcast, we talk 726 00:33:27,470 --> 00:33:29,850 Speaker 2: a lot about love. So is there a biblical concept 727 00:33:29,910 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 2: of love? that you think applies to this topic today? 728 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: I love this question. I love it so much. There's 729 00:33:36,940 --> 00:33:39,500 Speaker 1: a narrative in the book that I go back to constantly, 730 00:33:39,540 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: and it's about one of my favorite Greek words, and 731 00:33:41,860 --> 00:33:45,830 Speaker 1: the Greek word is oligopistos, oligopistos. And that's the compound 732 00:33:45,870 --> 00:33:48,510 Speaker 1: phrase that Jesus uses. Jesus is the only person who 733 00:33:48,590 --> 00:33:50,570 Speaker 1: uses this phrase, and it's only in the New Testament. 734 00:33:50,590 --> 00:33:53,170 Speaker 1: We actually can't find it in any other ancient Near 735 00:33:53,270 --> 00:33:57,050 Speaker 1: East texts. But it's the phrase for little faith, oligopistas. 736 00:33:57,290 --> 00:33:59,890 Speaker 1: And what's so interesting is that we very often read 737 00:33:59,950 --> 00:34:02,590 Speaker 1: this phrase, oh, you of little faith. We read it 738 00:34:02,670 --> 00:34:04,890 Speaker 1: with a lens of shame. And so as soon as 739 00:34:04,930 --> 00:34:06,690 Speaker 1: we hear it, we're like, oh, Jesus is mad at 740 00:34:06,730 --> 00:34:09,739 Speaker 1: me because I'm scared. But when we really study the 741 00:34:09,780 --> 00:34:14,060 Speaker 1: Greek and especially the context wherein Jesus uses it, we see, 742 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,380 Speaker 1: I would say, a lens of love, like a real 743 00:34:17,500 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: genuine lens of love. In fact, one of my favorite 744 00:34:19,940 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 1: early church fathers that I read a lot is a 745 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,739 Speaker 1: man named John Chrysostomum. And he says the best way 746 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: to interpret the word oligopistos, little faith, is with the 747 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,540 Speaker 1: same connotation that a father might use as his toddler 748 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: is learning to walk. It's a beckoning to like, this 749 00:34:36,340 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: is the faith you have right now, but I want 750 00:34:37,940 --> 00:34:41,180 Speaker 1: you to come and experience some supernatural trust. And so 751 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,540 Speaker 1: I would say there is a real lens of love 752 00:34:44,660 --> 00:34:46,750 Speaker 1: around fear and the way we feel shame about it. 753 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: And I think our friend and Savior Jesus has a 754 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,740 Speaker 1: look of love in his eyes as he is beckoning 755 00:34:51,820 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: us to supernatural trust. 756 00:34:54,620 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 2: I would agree with you. Okay. So Jess, tell us 757 00:34:56,700 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 2: something you are loving right now. 758 00:34:59,430 --> 00:35:02,410 Speaker 1: I am loving running. I'm a runner by nature. I've 759 00:35:02,450 --> 00:35:05,569 Speaker 1: run for like a couple of decades, but I took 760 00:35:05,770 --> 00:35:08,509 Speaker 1: two years off and I just started running again and 761 00:35:08,530 --> 00:35:11,290 Speaker 1: it is making me feel so alive and so grateful. 762 00:35:11,450 --> 00:35:13,810 Speaker 2: So I'm a walker, but I would say the same thing. 763 00:35:13,830 --> 00:35:17,370 Speaker 2: I actually look forward to my walk and my time 764 00:35:17,410 --> 00:35:17,870 Speaker 2: with the Lord. 765 00:35:17,890 --> 00:35:18,850 Speaker 1: So life-giving. So life-giving. 766 00:35:18,870 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, especially in the fall. We're in Kentucky now 767 00:35:22,980 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 2: that the summer heat is over. It's going really good. 768 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:27,220 Speaker 1: Yes. 769 00:35:28,020 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 2: Well, I know I want to stay in contact with you. 770 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,020 Speaker 2: I'm sure listeners are going to want to. They're going 771 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,990 Speaker 2: to want to grab a copy of this book and 772 00:35:34,219 --> 00:35:35,629 Speaker 2: all the things. So tell us how we can best 773 00:35:35,670 --> 00:35:35,910 Speaker 2: do that. 774 00:35:36,830 --> 00:35:40,890 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm jessaconnelly on Instagram and all social media. My 775 00:35:40,930 --> 00:35:43,910 Speaker 1: website is jessconnelly.com. And you can find You Can't Be 776 00:35:43,950 --> 00:35:47,030 Speaker 1: Brave Until You're Scared on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, wherever 777 00:35:47,070 --> 00:35:47,649 Speaker 1: books are sold. 778 00:35:48,420 --> 00:35:50,800 Speaker 2: Awesome. Well, would you do us the honor of praying 779 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 2: for us as we close today? 780 00:35:52,660 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be my deep joy. God, I thank 781 00:35:54,739 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: you so much for Rachel and this podcast and her leadership. 782 00:35:57,460 --> 00:35:59,779 Speaker 1: I thank you for her courage, for her bravery to 783 00:36:00,140 --> 00:36:02,870 Speaker 1: say yes to her call, the call that you've placed 784 00:36:02,930 --> 00:36:04,890 Speaker 1: on her life. I just thank you for the compassion 785 00:36:04,930 --> 00:36:08,049 Speaker 1: that's in her voice and in her leadership for all 786 00:36:08,110 --> 00:36:10,629 Speaker 1: the people listening. And right now, God, in the name 787 00:36:10,670 --> 00:36:12,509 Speaker 1: of Jesus, we just thank you for those of us 788 00:36:12,550 --> 00:36:14,509 Speaker 1: who are found in the family of God, who by 789 00:36:14,550 --> 00:36:17,990 Speaker 1: grace through faith walk with Jesus. that we are courageous, 790 00:36:18,260 --> 00:36:20,540 Speaker 1: that we're made in your image and that we can 791 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: experience fear. And that also means we can experience bravery. 792 00:36:24,420 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: And so I would just ask, Holy Spirit, that you 793 00:36:27,020 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: would be the best communicator. I know you're such a 794 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: better communicator than I am. And I just ask that 795 00:36:31,500 --> 00:36:33,779 Speaker 1: even through this podcast, even through the internet, you would 796 00:36:33,820 --> 00:36:36,400 Speaker 1: just speak to your kids and show them a vision 797 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,700 Speaker 1: of what individual and communal bravery can look like. It's 798 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,339 Speaker 1: in your son's name we pray. 799 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:42,700 Speaker 2: Amen. 800 00:36:43,780 --> 00:36:44,140 Speaker 1: Amen. 801 00:36:44,410 --> 00:36:47,770 Speaker 2: Jess, thank you. You've been such an encouragement to me today. 802 00:36:47,830 --> 00:36:50,870 Speaker 2: I think today's episode was especially meaningful to me. So 803 00:36:50,910 --> 00:36:53,390 Speaker 2: thanks for your time. Thanks for encouraging all of us 804 00:36:53,550 --> 00:36:56,330 Speaker 2: to just be brave and to move past our fear. 805 00:36:57,350 --> 00:36:59,670 Speaker 1: My deep joy. Thank you so much for having me. 806 00:37:01,070 --> 00:37:03,299 Speaker 2: And thank you so much for listening to the Love 807 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,219 Speaker 2: Offering Podcast. I hope today's conversation reminded you that you 808 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,340 Speaker 2: don't have to wait until you feel fearless to follow God. 809 00:37:09,660 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 2: He knows what frightens you, and you can bring those 810 00:37:11,820 --> 00:37:15,110 Speaker 2: fears honestly to Him. Courage may begin with a small step, 811 00:37:15,310 --> 00:37:17,690 Speaker 2: naming what you're afraid of, remembering who God is, and 812 00:37:17,730 --> 00:37:21,170 Speaker 2: trusting Him with what comes next. As we grow in 813 00:37:21,310 --> 00:37:23,229 Speaker 2: awe of Him, we can learn to let His voice 814 00:37:23,290 --> 00:37:26,910 Speaker 2: guide us more than fear does. If you enjoyed this episode, 815 00:37:26,930 --> 00:37:28,450 Speaker 2: please share it with a friend and leave a review. 816 00:37:28,510 --> 00:37:30,450 Speaker 2: It helps others find the show and spreads the message 817 00:37:30,489 --> 00:37:33,110 Speaker 2: of love even further. To connect with me, visit me 818 00:37:33,140 --> 00:37:36,330 Speaker 2: on my website at rachelkadams.com, where you can download the 819 00:37:36,370 --> 00:37:38,970 Speaker 2: Love Always devotional, a free resource to help you realize 820 00:37:39,010 --> 00:37:41,730 Speaker 2: how beloved you already are. Be sure to check out 821 00:37:41,770 --> 00:37:44,310 Speaker 2: You Can't Be Brave Until You're Scared by Jess Connolly. 822 00:37:44,330 --> 00:37:47,510 Speaker 2: A special thank you to Life Audio for supporting this 823 00:37:47,570 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 2: podcast and making it possible. To find more great podcasts, 824 00:37:50,580 --> 00:37:54,900 Speaker 2: visit lifeaudio.com. Until next time, let's make our lives an 825 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 2: offering of love.