Speaker 1: All right. First of all, I just want to say
Speaker 1: that color looks absolutely stunning on you.
Speaker 2: It looks likewise on you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Twins. Totally unintentional on our part,
Speaker 1: but we welcome you back here to be WORLDLDSHO podcast friends,
Speaker 1: thanks for being here once again. Today we were talking
Speaker 1: about some marriage and fidelity, believe it or not, controversial
Speaker 1: topic and subject quite taboo, but there's been some online
Speaker 1: chatter this week about exactly that with some people that
Speaker 1: are far more prominent and well known than we are online,
Speaker 1: which I'm okay with, Yeah, and for a variety of reasons,
Speaker 1: stuff like this being one of them. But there have
Speaker 1: been a couple of instances of some female wives, some
Speaker 1: ladies who have been getting a lot of input, let's say,
Speaker 1: from their individual audiences, and we wanted to discuss that
Speaker 1: because it goes into just something greater, whether it be faith, religion, marriage,
Speaker 1: the interpersonal communication that we have with our audiences. So
Speaker 1: let's jump into that discussion without wasting any time. If
Speaker 1: I seem a little off today, it's because two of
Speaker 1: our babies are out of the house and off the property.
Speaker 2: And our actual baby did not sleep oh wink. Last
Speaker 2: night and you woke up inconsolable four times. He's got
Speaker 2: two top teeth coming in, some allergies going on. It
Speaker 2: was brutal.
Speaker 1: It has been a day, day, It has been a day.
Speaker 1: But Kaimani and Neva are audit here and I'm always
Speaker 1: very distracted when my babies aren't near to you and
Speaker 1: I we like.
Speaker 2: The death things to be under the wings.
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially with Kaimani because big difference between a young man,
Speaker 1: young teenage boy and a female daughter. Anyway, I'm wasting time.
Speaker 1: I said, if we were going to do that, let's
Speaker 1: jump into the conversation.
Speaker 2: Okay, So this week I saw that Hannah Nielman. She
Speaker 2: most of you guys know her as Ballerina Farms. She
Speaker 2: is probably the most prominent trad wife, which is short
Speaker 2: for a traditional wife. She is one of the LDS
Speaker 2: influencers in Utah. So we have seen a lot of
Speaker 2: yeschad wife influencers a rise up because this whole take
Speaker 2: back femininity movement has exploded on Instagram and TikTok and
Speaker 2: now it's pouring over onto YouTube as well.
Speaker 1: I'm not seeing any of this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably not fit to you. So essentially it's this
Speaker 2: beautiful aesthetic of motherhood and having lots of free range babies,
Speaker 2: and everything's natural wood colored, and there's aprons, and there's chickens,
Speaker 2: and there's barefoot babies and overalls with like one strap hanging,
Speaker 2: and there's sour dough. There's all of that.
Speaker 1: So this is athetic, it's an esthetic. This is all
Speaker 1: a portrayal. Like everything you see online.
Speaker 2: I find it. I have mixed opinions on it because
Speaker 2: I think part of it sets an unrealistic expectation for
Speaker 2: what motherhood and being a wife looks like. But at
Speaker 2: the same time, it's wholesome content and it sure beats
Speaker 2: like the only fans stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you like it, so be it, just not
Speaker 1: in my couple of tea.
Speaker 2: I think that it's wholesome and it's beautiful, but I
Speaker 2: understand that it's an aesthetic and that it's performative, and
Speaker 2: then enjoy it understanding. Yes, yeah, because nobody's life is perfect.
Speaker 2: Nobody just silently speaks in a whisper while making sour
Speaker 2: dough with eight children at their feet. If you have
Speaker 2: eight children at you, well yeah, I'll bake bread with
Speaker 2: children at my feet. But it's like he's pulling my
Speaker 2: pants down, like, grab him, somebody grab him. My hands
Speaker 2: are sticky, you know, that's what it sounds like. It
Speaker 2: doesn't sound like this.
Speaker 1: It's chaos. Yes, fairness is and that's okay.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful chaos, but it is what it is. That
Speaker 2: does not make a good aesthetic. Nobody wants to watch that.
Speaker 1: So how did she step in it? This week? And
Speaker 1: then we'll let's delve into the background on her and
Speaker 1: her husband as well, because that's the part that I
Speaker 1: actually found interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I find Hannah Nielman very interesting. The reason they're
Speaker 2: called ballerina farms is because she was a prima ballerina
Speaker 2: at New York's Julliard and she met her husband. I
Speaker 2: believe they got married eleven or twelve years ago. She
Speaker 2: met her husband at Juilliard. I don't know why he
Speaker 2: was skulking around Juilliard looking for a ballerina, but essentially
Speaker 2: he was very wealthy. His family owns Jet Blue, the airline,
Speaker 2: and he asked her out. She said no. He asked
Speaker 2: her out again, she wasn't interested. Then he somehow figured
Speaker 2: out what flight she was on, bought a ticket, made
Speaker 2: sure that he was sitting there holst to her, for sure, stopper.
Speaker 2: It's a little weird I would think so as a young.
Speaker 1: Girl, no judgment.
Speaker 2: They were the same age, so it's not I'd be
Speaker 2: a little weirded out. But he really wanted to meet Hannah.
Speaker 2: He really wanted to date Hannah. She took it as Okay,
Speaker 2: this guy's really serious about it. I'll give him a
Speaker 2: first date. They hit it off, they got married. Since then,
Speaker 2: they have had eight children in eleven years until this week.
Speaker 2: And they just announced maybe five or six days ago
Speaker 2: through an ad campaign that she was pregnant with number
Speaker 2: nine and ready to burst pregnant with number nine.
Speaker 1: So this came as a surprise to everyone.
Speaker 2: Yep, they were hiding it and.
Speaker 1: So joyous congratulations. It should be a happy occasion.
Speaker 2: It should, for sure. So what they did is so
Speaker 2: they have a lot of products. She's kind of ane.
Speaker 2: Joanna gains in a way because they're going to eventually
Speaker 2: be having a store where you can go and shop.
Speaker 2: I think you can already shop the store, but they
Speaker 2: think they were talking about doing a bakery and other stuff,
Speaker 2: so essentially like a Magnolia Market, but Ballerina.
Speaker 1: Farm because they are both eldos yep.
Speaker 2: They have. I mean, she has nine million million followers
Speaker 2: on TikTok, seven and a half million followers on Instagram,
Speaker 2: one point six million on YouTube. She is huge. She
Speaker 2: has got a massive following. And so it's not like
Speaker 2: she's a stay at home mom. She's a mogul. She's
Speaker 2: very successful at what she does, and I think that's great.
Speaker 2: And so they have like all kinds of stuff. I
Speaker 2: actually really like their Electrolyt drink. If you're looking for
Speaker 2: a good I buy it. I drink it. I did
Speaker 2: through my pregnancy because she did through her pregnancy, so
Speaker 2: I trusted it because her babies are healthy, and so
Speaker 2: now they just are releasing a protein powder. And the
Speaker 2: commercial was beautiful, and it was all of these Juilliard
Speaker 2: dancers doing ballet and then it was her and it
Speaker 2: was the slogan was something like strength but it looks
Speaker 2: different now, our strength on a different stage or something
Speaker 2: like that. And she's talking about motherhood. So she's watching
Speaker 2: these dancers dance like she used to, and then she
Speaker 2: pulls her jacket back and she's big and pregnant with
Speaker 2: number nine. Beautiful commercial. I loved it, and the internet
Speaker 2: lost their minds Baby number nine he's breeding her like
Speaker 2: a cow. This is just ridiculous. This man is manipulating
Speaker 2: her and all of this and the whole thing started
Speaker 2: because I think it was The London Times did an
Speaker 2: article on her where they essentially asked to come out
Speaker 2: and meet the most famous trat wife and do a
Speaker 2: article on her family. She agreed. They were very kind.
Speaker 2: They had this reporter in their home and you know
Speaker 2: that old story, how that goes there done that, they
Speaker 2: wrote essentially a hit piece on ballerina farm and on
Speaker 2: Hannah and her husband and how she was this gorgeous
Speaker 2: dancer and all she ever wanted to be was a
Speaker 2: ballerina and now she's this this stay at home trad
Speaker 2: wife that is just bred yearly. All she's allowed to
Speaker 2: do is have babies, and a lot of stuff has
Speaker 2: been kind of taken.
Speaker 1: They're grossed up by the fact that she abandoned this
Speaker 1: independent streak as a strong woman and she gave all
Speaker 1: that up for this traditional lifestyle where she is having
Speaker 1: a litter of.
Speaker 2: Children, yes, a litter of children.
Speaker 1: That there's anything wrong with her, no, And she.
Speaker 2: Homeschools, she doesn't have a nanny, which I'm like, hey,
Speaker 2: we've got a wealthy family here that doesn't utilize a nanny.
Speaker 2: I think that's fantastic, and she runs a business. To me,
Speaker 2: she's a true proverb thirty one woman.
Speaker 1: It's really refreshing, especially having gotten to know so many
Speaker 1: people in the online space. We are parents who, much
Speaker 1: like we said here at the jump of this episode
Speaker 1: of podcasts, we like our babies to be close. We're
Speaker 1: always around. We do the homeschooling thing. But you know, obviously,
Speaker 1: but so many people become so dedicated and devoted to
Speaker 1: creating content that they will like very happily cast their
Speaker 1: children aside and I'll offer them to be raised essentially
Speaker 1: by somebody else, which I don't personally agree with.
Speaker 2: Right, they will get nanny's for the daytime, nanny's for
Speaker 2: the nighttime. And we see that with gossipy podcasters, for example,
Speaker 2: that I think that children don't wake up at two
Speaker 2: thirty in the morning because that's when their rem sleep is,
Speaker 2: and it's.
Speaker 1: I was totally unaware of this, but I'm making an
Speaker 1: assumption annoying that we were talking about.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about Cantazon. So she literally was attacking Erica
Speaker 2: Kirk because Erica said the night before Charlie was assassinated
Speaker 2: that their daughter woke up at two in the morning
Speaker 2: and got into their bed, which she regularly does. Yeh,
Speaker 2: so total sidebar. Anyway, the fact that she was like
Speaker 2: a childrenn get up at two thirty. I'm thinking this
Speaker 2: woman as a night nanny if you don't know that
Speaker 2: children regularly get up at two thirty because they don't
Speaker 2: know that rem sleep is on a schedule, because it's
Speaker 2: not anyway, total cyber. See I'm just now I'm venting
Speaker 2: go back in my little so with Hannah Nielman. She
Speaker 2: doesn't have nanny's I respect that she homeschools her kids.
Speaker 2: She bakes from scratch, she has a beautiful garden. Does
Speaker 2: she have a staff and that's why her place looks fantastic. Absolutely,
Speaker 2: they have a staff, but the staff does not nanny
Speaker 2: the children. She raises her babies. And that was part
Speaker 2: of the criticism of this article. They're like she took
Speaker 2: her baby, who was very young at the time, and
Speaker 2: laid it on her chest, where it remained for the
Speaker 2: four hour interview, like as if that was a bad thing. Fantastic, Yeah,
Speaker 2: so we're babies, her babies stay and it's funny because
Speaker 2: I get a lot of crap for that too. I
Speaker 2: wear Micah a lot. If the weather is nice, I
Speaker 2: will be wearing Micah as long as he's tolerating it.
Speaker 2: We all do it, Yeah, and we all sleep with Micah,
Speaker 2: you and.
Speaker 1: I, especially the kids. The kids do a great job too.
Speaker 1: We cherish him because we now have the benefit of
Speaker 1: hindsight and knowing that this goes really quickly, and so
Speaker 1: we are soaking up every moment that we possibly can.
Speaker 2: Yeah, contact napping didn't used to be a thing, but
Speaker 2: it's very much now. We know all of the mental
Speaker 2: benefits and all of the physical benefits of contact napping.
Speaker 2: They sleep better, they feel more secure, it's good for
Speaker 2: their cortisol levels, and awesome. It's so awesome, like your
Speaker 2: little head and their little noises and their little mouth
Speaker 2: and breath. It sounds good anyway anyway, An there's that.
Speaker 2: So Hannah does a great job. And if she wants
Speaker 2: to have nine babies, go for it, like she is
Speaker 2: killing it. They can afford it. She's there for them.
Speaker 2: The kids look happy, healthy, they're always interacting. I don't
Speaker 2: see any problem with it. But the internet is saying
Speaker 2: there's a few things. One is why are you bringing
Speaker 2: children into such a broken world when all this stuff
Speaker 2: is happening all of you know, war on the horizon,
Speaker 2: and why would you ever bring children into a world
Speaker 2: that looks like this, especially so many children? And then
Speaker 2: the other criticism is you can't possibly love that many
Speaker 2: children or give them the attention that they need.
Speaker 1: Absord So what do you take? What you take on? Honestly,
Speaker 1: I will go off on this topic if you'd like
Speaker 1: me too.
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Speaker 1: I will go off on this topic if you'd like
Speaker 1: me too, because I get so sick and tired. We
Speaker 1: get some of this too. We have five kids. I
Speaker 1: love all of my children. It doesn't take away any
Speaker 1: ounce of love, care, or affection having a number of children.
Speaker 1: It really does not, especially when it comes to Michael.
Speaker 1: Like I said, experiences taught us so much and it's
Speaker 1: amplified that love tremendously. Plus, people can have as many
Speaker 1: kids as they freaking want to. Sorry is if you
Speaker 1: have the means to do so, and you know you're
Speaker 1: providing your children with a fantastic quality of life. I
Speaker 1: don't care if you have twelve kids. I don't care
Speaker 1: if you have twenty kids. It pisses me off that
Speaker 1: anyone out there would try to encourage somebody else to
Speaker 1: make the conscious decision to deprive themselves of the long
Speaker 1: term happiness that you get to experience with having a
Speaker 1: large family. It's not only fantastic from a parental standpoint,
Speaker 1: but now that we have older children and a younger child,
Speaker 1: a one year old nearly one year old, crazy to say,
Speaker 1: it's so beautiful to watch them interact. It is so
Speaker 1: incredibly fulfilling. There is nothing greater. And you know, I'm
Speaker 1: somebody who was raised as an only child. I didn't
Speaker 1: have any of this experience growing up myself. Yeah, being
Speaker 1: a parent and seeing all of this come together, there's
Speaker 1: something that's so pure about it and just raw. It
Speaker 1: warms your heart like nothing else in this world.
Speaker 2: I love siblings.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: I grew up with siblings. You didn't, so you didn't
Speaker 2: have that experience. When we first started having children, you were,
Speaker 2: we had you were. If you don't have any more kids,
Speaker 2: I'm good. I'm good with one. There's something wrong with
Speaker 2: raising one child. And then we had the two and
Speaker 2: you were good.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've come around over time, But I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess the biggest my biggest gripe is the fact that,
Speaker 1: like you, anyone out there feels comfortable telling somebody else
Speaker 1: what they should do with their own lives. You know,
Speaker 1: if it's a situation where like you don't have the
Speaker 1: means okay, so so be it. Maybe there's you know,
Speaker 1: a private, actually conversation that can take place and transpire,
Speaker 1: but like you don't, you don't get to tell anybody
Speaker 1: else in this world what it is that they can
Speaker 1: or cannot do. I'm sorry, I don't.
Speaker 2: Agree with Tucker's whole have more kids than you can
Speaker 2: like you always said, they have more kids than you
Speaker 2: can afford. I see what he's saying. I get, but
Speaker 2: I don't think you should have more kids than you
Speaker 2: can afford, and you shouldn't make it somebody else's problem.
Speaker 2: I also don't think you should keep popping out kids
Speaker 2: if you're not going to actively be there to raise them,
Speaker 2: if you're just throwing them into daycare and you're going
Speaker 2: back to work, and you're putting your priorities or what
Speaker 2: you want or what you think you need, but it's
Speaker 2: really it's what you want above the welfare of your children,
Speaker 2: because I truly think that, at least for the first
Speaker 2: three to four years, your children need to be at
Speaker 2: home with mom all day. I truly truly believe that
Speaker 2: for their mental well being. And I've seen a lot
Speaker 2: of stuff on that there was this whole healthy attack
Speaker 2: disorder thing going on where they showed two children, and
Speaker 2: there was this one little girl who was very uncomfortable
Speaker 2: in this play public play situation, and she was holding
Speaker 2: on to her mom, and when her mom left the room,
Speaker 2: she melted down. They had a stranger come in and
Speaker 2: show her all these toys and try to entertain her,
Speaker 2: and the little girls not having it. She was hiding,
Speaker 2: and then when her mom came back, she ran to her.
Speaker 1: Crying proper response.
Speaker 2: And then they showed a little girl who's playing with
Speaker 2: her mom in this public play area. Then the mom leaves.
Speaker 2: The little girl doesn't even notice mom left, She's just playing.
Speaker 2: A stranger comes in, starts showing her toys. She plays
Speaker 2: with the stranger in the same way that she was
Speaker 2: playing with her mom. She did not care that she
Speaker 2: didn't know that woman.
Speaker 1: That's a product of our society and we do.
Speaker 2: Yeah. They were asking the Internet, which one is proper attachment,
Speaker 2: and almost everybody said the little girl that was unfazed,
Speaker 2: and the correct answer was no, the little girl who
Speaker 2: was very alarmed that her mother was leaving, that a
Speaker 2: stranger was entering. That's proper attachment at the age of two.
Speaker 2: That is the way that it's supposed to be. Micah
Speaker 2: hates when I leave, if I go to the bathroom,
Speaker 2: he melts down. But you know what, he's ten months old,
Speaker 2: and at his age, that is proper attachment. He realizes
Speaker 2: that we are separate people now, lifelines. He realizes that
Speaker 2: I can leave and he doesn't like that, And that's
Speaker 2: actually a healthy feeling and soul.
Speaker 1: Those are the things that people are willing to criticize
Speaker 1: and critique. Right, you're holding your child too much with me,
Speaker 1: You're holding out that I can't hold my child enough.
Speaker 1: You're having too many kids. Granted, there are situations where
Speaker 1: maybe that can be the case, but when you're talking
Speaker 1: about it, just a normal, happy, healthy family who functions
Speaker 1: in a way that is isn't a detriment to anybody.
Speaker 1: Why are you speaking up having five children brings me
Speaker 1: tremendous joy. Why would you ever try to go out
Speaker 1: of your way to make that a negative thing. I
Speaker 1: just don't understand this mentality.
Speaker 2: And having nine children brought them tremendous joy. And she
Speaker 2: is sitting in bed looking fantastic right after she gave
Speaker 2: birth to her ninth child. Fantastic. She's oh, by the way,
Speaker 2: baby number nine arrived last night. So I'm like you, also,
Speaker 2: you haven't slept and you look like that.
Speaker 1: You just fresh criticize that more than having nine children,
Speaker 1: because you know that's not the case. In the other way,
Speaker 1: to make things look a certain way.
Speaker 2: They were just announcing her birth. It was very quick.
Speaker 2: It was a quick little story baby.
Speaker 1: Number nine, and very raw.
Speaker 2: She looked like she had just given birth. She was
Speaker 2: still in bed. I'm pretty sure she was still sitting
Speaker 2: on the little birth pad and whatever.
Speaker 1: And she had the baby visioning something else.
Speaker 2: But no, she was no makeup. She she just looks
Speaker 2: that way. It's a woman's beautiful. She's just granola to
Speaker 2: the mass, but in the best glowy way. I must
Speaker 2: know what she should buy the protein.
Speaker 1: So all of the criticism has revolved around the fact
Speaker 1: that they're having just too.
Speaker 2: Many kids, too many kids, and that the internet is
Speaker 2: convinced that this woman is being held captive by this
Speaker 2: man and that he is forcing her to have these
Speaker 2: babies that she doesn't want. And I recognize that newborn bliss.
Speaker 2: She literally said, we're just in newborn bliss right now.
Speaker 2: And she has eighteen months old or two year old
Speaker 2: and pretty much every eighteen months. She's had a baby
Speaker 2: for the last eleven years.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of kids in a very short period
Speaker 1: of time. But again, that's their life, so be it.
Speaker 1: They get to decide for themselves. What I think all
Speaker 1: of that stems from is just the fact that you
Speaker 1: have certain people, certain groups of people, who have this
Speaker 1: thought process where like, no, we need to leave all
Speaker 1: of that behind, We need to evolve, move on and
Speaker 1: become something new entirely. Women especially need to embrace this
Speaker 1: streak of independence that that so many of them have.
Speaker 1: And maybe she did genuinely feel that way at one
Speaker 1: point in time when she was attending Juilliard, but you're
Speaker 1: allowed to change your mind right and think for yourself
Speaker 1: and find that happiness and fulfillment for yourself. For them
Speaker 1: to go out of their way to vilify her husband
Speaker 1: by default and say, no, this is your doing. You
Speaker 1: just manipulated her. We have a great example of actual
Speaker 1: spousal manipulation that we're going to discuss here in a second,
Speaker 1: and that'll be Yeah, I can't wait to dive into that one.
Speaker 1: But for both of them, if they're happy, if they're
Speaker 1: contented and they're ecstatic with their situation. Good for them.
Speaker 1: Shut your mouth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. And the business building is tremendou it's
Speaker 2: very successful. I hope that they continue their success. I
Speaker 2: think that they have a very beautiful example. If I
Speaker 2: see differently, I'll say I was wrong. But them right now,
Speaker 2: they seem happy, they seem healthy.
Speaker 1: They're a family and people who should be looked at
Speaker 1: as being like an example of what is possible again,
Speaker 1: you know, like I hate seeing this, whether it be
Speaker 1: somebody who finds financial success, find success within their family,
Speaker 1: it's like, let's let's tear that person down because they
Speaker 1: broke away from the herd and they're doing their own
Speaker 1: thing and they found something that works for themselves. I
Speaker 1: had the inability thus far to do that, so I
Speaker 1: got to come after you. I got to pull you
Speaker 1: back down into the bucket. How dare you thrive and
Speaker 1: be successful where I'm not?
Speaker 2: And her being successful as a trad wife does not destroy.
Speaker 1: The you know, it doesn't take anything, doesn't take anything.
Speaker 2: Away from somebody who chooses not to have children, or
Speaker 2: chooses a career, or chooses to have a boy and
Speaker 2: a girl and that's it and be done. It doesn't
Speaker 2: affect those people, so She's not going after you, So
Speaker 2: why are people if you.
Speaker 1: Are that independent woman and U chose career over having
Speaker 1: a traditional family and lifestyle. Again, congratulations, do what you
Speaker 1: want to do. Everybody else should shut their mouths.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So anyway, congratulations to the Nielman family. Corret adorable.
Speaker 2: All right, guys, Easter is just around the corner and
Speaker 2: we're all starting to think about filling up those baskets
Speaker 2: for all the little ones in our lives now. For
Speaker 2: many kids today, Easter means egg hunts, candy, and of
Speaker 2: course the Easter Buddy. These are all really fun traditions,
Speaker 2: but they can also overshadow the true meaning of why
Speaker 2: we celebrate Easter and how the resurrection of Jesus changed everything.
Speaker 1: So they usually try to find the perfect basket stuffers.
Speaker 1: Definitely go check out the incredible story that Brave Books
Speaker 1: just released from Christian apologists Melissa Doherty called The Day
Speaker 1: That Made the Way to help families clearly explain the
Speaker 1: real story of Easter and the gospel behind it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, The Day That Made the Way is a sweet
Speaker 2: story about creatures living in darkness until light enters the world,
Speaker 2: helping kids understand big biblical ideas like sin, redemption, and
Speaker 2: why Jesus had to die and rise again.
Speaker 1: Milsa wrote it because she knows firsthand how easily people
Speaker 1: can be drawn towards spiritual ideas that sound good but
Speaker 1: drift away from biblical truth, especially if they were never
Speaker 1: grounded in scripture early in life.
Speaker 2: In addition to the Day That Made the Way, Brave
Speaker 2: also has a very sweet Easter bundle that is perfect
Speaker 2: for every basket. This year, I got the whole bundle
Speaker 2: and there are two incredible books, a coloring book and
Speaker 2: activity books, stickers, colored pencils, and the cutest, softest bunny.
Speaker 2: Just add some sweets in your all set.
Speaker 1: Also right now, if you join the Brave Book Club,
Speaker 1: which we've been telling you guys about for months now,
Speaker 1: you'll get The Day That Made the Way for free,
Speaker 1: along with the new children's book each month designed to
Speaker 1: help families teach biblical values and a Christian worldview. When
Speaker 1: you go to Brave Books dot Com slash Easter. Okay,
Speaker 1: story number two. This is the one that I'm excited
Speaker 1: to jump into because you I'm not familiar with this.
Speaker 1: I have no first hand experience in reviewing any of this,
Speaker 1: but you and a Vela were going off telling me
Speaker 1: about it and this is insanity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I told you a little bit about it when
Speaker 2: we were in Hawaii. That's when the story broke, and
Speaker 2: then since then I've just kind of been following it.
Speaker 1: And before we even jumped into this, I'm your premise, preface.
Speaker 1: Excuse me this, Parson of the conversation, I say, like,
Speaker 1: we're not We're not trying to judge, as I'm sure
Speaker 1: some people will perceive this to be. Like, this isn't
Speaker 1: about judgment. This is about people who are public figures
Speaker 1: who put this.
Speaker 2: They put this out publicly. This isn't gossip or slander.
Speaker 2: This is something that they have turned into content. And
Speaker 2: so when you turn it into content, I feel like
Speaker 2: it's okay too.
Speaker 1: And I genuinely wish them both the best. However, we
Speaker 1: are going to just analyze this situation because it's it's
Speaker 1: very complex and it ties it interfines into its faith,
Speaker 1: religion specifically, and just what we perceive to be right
Speaker 1: and wrong in a marriage.
Speaker 2: Yes, and yeah, like you said, it goes into a
Speaker 2: broader discussion of what modern churches or what modern Christianity
Speaker 2: says versus what is actually biblically based. All right, I
Speaker 2: think that's really important. So there is If you guys
Speaker 2: remember the Douggers, I'm sure you did, there was another
Speaker 2: family called the Baits and they had Bringing Up Baits
Speaker 2: and it was the Dougger's best friends and they were
Speaker 2: featured in one another's content and I was called Bringing
Speaker 2: Up Baits and the Baits on the Dugger Show. They
Speaker 2: wore the big dress. They dressed more prairie.
Speaker 1: They had the look.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had the look where the Douggers had kind
Speaker 2: of moved past that. They still wore the skirts and everything,
Speaker 2: but they didn't wear the homemade dresses and everything. And
Speaker 2: the Baits still really look like they were definitely into
Speaker 2: that cult still. I mean the Douggers were a cult
Speaker 2: and everything too.
Speaker 1: The Butunners, the Asners, but.
Speaker 2: Well they're not bunners. Bunners are the ones that were their.
Speaker 1: Hair and look that branch of Christianity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in Washington there's a religion where it's probably other
Speaker 2: places too, but definitely in the Pacific Northwest, there was
Speaker 2: this religion where they had a bunch of kids and
Speaker 2: they all the women were regarded were their hair in
Speaker 2: a bun and so everybody called them bunners. And so
Speaker 2: these ones wear their hair big and puffy and curly
Speaker 2: and the big prairie dresses. So anyway, that was the
Speaker 2: Baits and bringing up bits that a lot of you
Speaker 2: guys have probably watched the show or at least are
Speaker 2: familiar with them. So now that the girls have gotten
Speaker 2: older and the boys have gotten older, a lot of
Speaker 2: them have left the religious cult that they were a
Speaker 2: part of, and now they wear jeans and stretch pants
Speaker 2: and woo, you know, they're yeah, they're being risky ladies
Speaker 2: and their yoga pants. So Katie Baits was one of
Speaker 2: the girls that had left, and then she married Travis Clark.
Speaker 2: Travis Clark is kind of an up and coming or
Speaker 2: I don't even know if he's up and coming. Maybe
Speaker 2: he's just a small time Christian singer. And he was
Speaker 2: featured a little bit on the show when they were recording,
Speaker 2: and then they got married four years ago and they've
Speaker 2: since had two children. So she blew up on Instagram
Speaker 2: and they had a YouTube channel as well, making kind
Speaker 2: of similar content to Ballerina Farm, but not not at
Speaker 2: all in the same It wasn't as like Gee Home
Speaker 2: Steady it wasn't home steady at all. She's she lives,
Speaker 2: she dresses nice, and she's into fancy hair and makeup
Speaker 2: and all of that. And it's not the hair, yeah,
Speaker 2: for sure, she's it's a different aesthetic, but it's still
Speaker 2: like that that mom kids. This is how we do
Speaker 2: at birthday parties? Is that kind of stuff. So anyway,
Speaker 2: Travis and her would always make these reels back and
Speaker 2: forth of how much they appreciated one another, what a
Speaker 2: wonderful husband he is. She just posted a reel a
Speaker 2: couple months ago saying I'm rich because he's the father
Speaker 2: of my children, and then shows him playing with their kids.
Speaker 2: Back in December was their four year anniversary, and he
Speaker 2: had this whole reel where he put together these roses
Speaker 2: and blew up balloons and everything to surprise her on
Speaker 2: their four year anniversary. And I watched it and I
Speaker 2: got kind of an ick from it because it was
Speaker 2: so performative. It was way more. It didn't come across
Speaker 2: as authentic.
Speaker 1: At all, welcome to social media.
Speaker 2: It came across as so performative, like, look at what
Speaker 2: a wonderful husband I was. And so often when somebody
Speaker 2: feels the need to show how wonderful of a husband
Speaker 2: they are, or how wonderful of a father.
Speaker 1: They are over compensating.
Speaker 2: They're overcompensating for something. So for some reason, Travis has
Speaker 2: always given me like, eh, I just he comes across
Speaker 2: as a like a Hillsong mega church Christian that maybe
Speaker 2: is not so biblically based and more performative and more
Speaker 2: you know. I don't know, there's just there's a type
Speaker 2: I know where I don't quite believe it. And so anyway,
Speaker 2: turns out she got pregnant with their third child, and
Speaker 2: they announced the pregnancy and all of that, and then
Speaker 2: she announces that she has miscarried and lost the baby
Speaker 2: in January. The very next day, he announces on his
Speaker 2: social media that he had an affair.
Speaker 1: Well, hold on, before we can get to that point,
Speaker 1: didn't he put out some kind of a video notification
Speaker 1: that they were going to stop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I showed you that. It was right before
Speaker 2: we left for Hawaii. They put out a video saying,
Speaker 2: this is our last video ever, not clickbait.
Speaker 1: We're quitting the channel. We're going with this, And I've watched.
Speaker 2: Quite a few of her things, so I clicked on it.
Speaker 1: I'm like not a very detailed explanation. From what I remember,
Speaker 1: it's just thank you for being here. We're good, We're
Speaker 1: done with this for now, we're going to focus on family.
Speaker 2: I thought it was weird because she worked so hard
Speaker 2: to build her Instagram and her TikTok and her YouTube,
Speaker 2: and the YouTube was really just starting to take off,
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, they're just.
Speaker 1: Out, doesn't that up?
Speaker 2: And they said that it was because he was doing
Speaker 2: nursing school and it was just too much to balance.
Speaker 2: But it still it didn't pass the smell test for me.
Speaker 2: But she looked happy and fine and whatever. And I
Speaker 2: don't think when they did the video that she was
Speaker 2: aware that he was having an affair and he wanted
Speaker 2: to end the channel. This is just my assumption, but
Speaker 2: he wanted to end the channel in preparation for confessing
Speaker 2: that he was having.
Speaker 1: To creatively put an end to everything, knowing that there
Speaker 1: was some heavy criticism that was about to come his way.
Speaker 2: Right, and that they wouldn't be able to balance everything.
Speaker 1: So how does all of this come to light?
Speaker 2: So it all comes to light the day after she
Speaker 2: has this the next day, the next day, which further
Speaker 2: tells me he was either being blackmailed by the other girl,
Speaker 2: or something happened during the miscarriage that brought it to light.
Speaker 2: Some people were saying that, I don't know, I don't
Speaker 2: want to spread rumors, but this was a speculator that
Speaker 2: something had come to light that maybe either caused a miscarriage,
Speaker 2: or during the miscarriage, the doctor maybe noticed something that
Speaker 2: brought to light, like possibly with like an STD or
Speaker 2: something like that that brought to light that he was
Speaker 2: having an affair. This is all total speculation. May not
Speaker 2: be the case. Maybe the girlfriends like tell her that's
Speaker 2: a private matter. Yeah, so something happened that made him
Speaker 2: confess publicly on Instagram via an Instagram story to the
Speaker 2: world that he had cheated on her multiple times.
Speaker 1: It's it's deeper than that. Even so, you said that
Speaker 1: she she was putting out posts, but the fact that
Speaker 1: he was working so hard and that she was so
Speaker 1: appreciative to him because the nursing school was taking such
Speaker 1: a toll that there were times where he had to
Speaker 1: spend the night the night out of their home. And
Speaker 1: it turns out that I mean common sense toopeless too.
Speaker 1: You know, I think the any logical finding would be
Speaker 1: that he wasn't going home because he was cheating on her. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So she put out a reel that she was
Speaker 2: making a miss favorite dinner because he was a nursing
Speaker 2: school and he was working so hard. So she put
Speaker 2: together this whole dinner and she made the house of
Speaker 2: all cute and clean, and got the kids all dressed up,
Speaker 2: and they were all excited because Daddy was coming home
Speaker 2: that night. And she said, he's been working so hard
Speaker 2: that he's been staying out really late at night, and
Speaker 2: some nights he doesn't even come home so he doesn't
Speaker 2: disturb us, working so hard, and we're so proud of
Speaker 2: him and we love him so much. Really, he was
Speaker 2: out there having an affair with I wonder what that.
Speaker 1: Did to him in a moment.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, it didn't bring him back home.
Speaker 2: It didn't bring him back home because that was posted
Speaker 2: a month before he ended the affair.
Speaker 1: So okay, now, the subsequent fallout is a part of
Speaker 1: this that you and I find absolutely crazy, And I'd
Speaker 1: love to hear everyone's take out there are we the
Speaker 1: ones that are being unreasonable because the people chiming in
Speaker 1: to the both of them.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, so to back it up a little bit,
Speaker 2: he said that he publicly wanted to confess because he
Speaker 2: felt like he needed that shame and everything to come
Speaker 2: on him. But me as a woman, looks at a
Speaker 2: public confession as a humiliation for her. If if you,
Speaker 2: I don't even want to use you as an example. Okay,
Speaker 2: if a husband goes publicly and says I had an
Speaker 2: affair multiple times and I'm humiliated and I cheated on
Speaker 2: my wife and all this stuff publicly on social media,
Speaker 2: that embarrasses your wife further, the proper way of handling
Speaker 2: that would be to shut down both accounts temporarily and
Speaker 2: deal with your marriage. Deal with your marriage. You don't
Speaker 2: owe the public and explanation of what was going on.
Speaker 1: And so this is one of my questions to you,
Speaker 1: is that has he now spun this into content?
Speaker 2: He is fun into content. But she kind of has to.
Speaker 2: But I think she kind of is a force to
Speaker 2: because she has to address she's being reactive. So I
Speaker 2: don't blame her at all. And she's trying to go
Speaker 2: to therapy and she's trying to do all these things.
Speaker 2: She's still posting reels. This is how she makes a living.
Speaker 2: And whether or not. He's still living in the home.
Speaker 2: I don't know. She's not showing him on the content,
Speaker 2: but it sounds like they're trying to work their marriage out,
Speaker 2: which I don't criticize. It's her decision.
Speaker 1: Again, this is her decision to make everybody else. It's
Speaker 1: unfortunate to me that this has gone and become public
Speaker 1: because it's completely unnecessary and it's going to do nothing
Speaker 1: but cause additional harm.
Speaker 2: Right, I personally think Travis Clark's a little weasel. He
Speaker 2: cheated on a beautiful wife after four years. You couldn't
Speaker 2: keep together for four years? Like, what is wrong with you?
Speaker 2: You're coming home to this beautiful wife, you have two
Speaker 2: gorgeous children, the woman's pregnant with baby number three, and
Speaker 2: you're out there skirting around with somebody from your class.
Speaker 2: Apparently it was somebody that he was a nursing school
Speaker 2: with who had been to their home multiple times. As
Speaker 2: you know, this is my friend and my classmate, and
Speaker 2: they had a Christmas party that apparently this woman attended
Speaker 2: on Earth. So I mean, just ultimate betrayal. You're gonna
Speaker 2: have the girlfriend and the life in the same place.
Speaker 1: And it turns out that he is the hero and
Speaker 1: she is the villain it.
Speaker 2: Appears that way, or at least she can come out
Speaker 2: the hero as long as she does what she's supposed
Speaker 2: to do, which is to forgive, forget, to move on,
Speaker 2: and this man gets to just be redeemed. And when
Speaker 2: I read the comments, I go crazy because it's not hey,
Speaker 2: this you know, Hey Katie, this is your decision. I
Speaker 2: hope that you do what's right for you. There are
Speaker 2: a few people saying I hope you do what's right
Speaker 2: for you, but those people are being attacked.
Speaker 1: They're in the minor right now.
Speaker 2: If Katie wants to forgive Travis, that is one hundred
Speaker 2: percent her decision and God will honor that. And I
Speaker 2: hope that their marriage can recover and all of that,
Speaker 2: especially because the children seem to adore him.
Speaker 1: You mentioned it. The religious components of this is what
Speaker 1: makes it really interesting. And part of the reason how
Speaker 1: we struggle so much with church teachings is because this
Speaker 1: seems very cut and dry to me. Yeah, she has
Speaker 1: like this is her prerogative. She can do whatever it
Speaker 1: is that she wants. If she decides to leave the
Speaker 1: marriage and relationship, so be it. It's on him. She
Speaker 1: did nothing again, she's she's acting in response to what
Speaker 1: it is that he did. It's this is just crazy
Speaker 1: to me. Read some of these comments on your phone there.
Speaker 2: So the part that bother me is, and I've heard
Speaker 2: this in churches that I've attended and in youth groups
Speaker 2: that our kids have gone to, where they've come back
Speaker 2: and asked us like, hey, words, if your husband cheats
Speaker 2: on you, you cannot leave them. You must forgive them. The
Speaker 2: only recourse is to pray for them and to remain
Speaker 2: faithful and to continue honoring your husband. And that really
Speaker 2: annoys me because it's not biblically based. This is something
Speaker 2: that religion and modern Christianity and a lot of not
Speaker 2: all churches, but a lot of churches say, but it's
Speaker 2: not biblically based because in the Bible it says in Matthew.
Speaker 2: I think Matthew nine literally explains that if you get
Speaker 2: divorced for no cause and you or you know, the
Speaker 2: guy's not fulfilling you or the girl's not fulfilling you,
Speaker 2: you're not communicating, or whatever, then you remarry that you
Speaker 2: are then committing adultery because you're still married. In the
Speaker 2: eyes of God. There's one covenant, right and though there's
Speaker 2: two exceptions. One is if you marry a non believer,
Speaker 2: in the non believer leaves, the believer is not supposed
Speaker 2: to leave the non believer because you're still in this
Speaker 2: marriage covenant. But if the non believer leaves, then Paul
Speaker 2: tells us let it be, and God wants peace for you.
Speaker 2: And that's all in First Corinthians. Now in Mackie is
Speaker 2: in the case of adultery, if one person commits physical adultery,
Speaker 2: and that's I mean, I don't think that necessarily, like
Speaker 2: you could go like, oh, there's been emotional adultery and
Speaker 2: things like that. I don't know about all that. The
Speaker 2: physical adultery. The marriage covenant has been broken. Now, that
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you have to get divorced and that
Speaker 2: you're no longer married, but you are allowed to get divorced,
Speaker 2: and then in that case you are also allowed to
Speaker 2: get remarried. And it's not considered adultery according to God.
Speaker 2: I mean, when you look at the nature of God, yes,
Speaker 2: he is forgiving and he does offer grace. However, God
Speaker 2: is all so a jealous Scott God also is I
Speaker 2: mean he created marriage as a model of the way
Speaker 2: that Christ loves the church, and you're not to go
Speaker 2: out and have a bunch of other gods. You're only
Speaker 2: to have one god. You're only to have one husband
Speaker 2: and one wife. And if you commit adultery on that person,
Speaker 2: they are allowed biblically to file for divorce and leave.
Speaker 2: They are not forced to stay in the marriage.
Speaker 1: Not the response and reaction as she's getting.
Speaker 2: It, but not the response and reaction that she's getting such.
Speaker 1: Is one thing. The part that bothers me even more, again,
Speaker 1: if you can pull those comments, is just the fact.
Speaker 2: That the way that he's being celebrated.
Speaker 1: This is but the manipulation that he's carrying out flat out.
Speaker 1: I don't know how else to phrase it. It's just
Speaker 1: straight up emotional and mental manipulation. The things that he's
Speaker 1: doing are like this guy does. If this is my daughter,
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine what my reaction would be. I would
Speaker 1: lose it on his Yeah sorry, dude.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So his very last post, he's sitting in the grass.
Speaker 2: He has arranged pictures in a very performative way. Their
Speaker 2: wedding picture, picture of the children, He's holding a picture
Speaker 2: of him and her, and he has a new tattoo
Speaker 2: on his risk Katie, so so much pressure on Katie.
Speaker 2: She's trying to make a decision. Do I want to
Speaker 2: forgive this man? Do I want to you know? She said,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to make a choice what's best for me
Speaker 2: and the children. You know.
Speaker 1: My response to that would have been, hey, homeboy, you
Speaker 1: certainly didn't have this photo montage in mind when you
Speaker 1: were spending the night at somebody else's house, right, maybe
Speaker 1: you should have because the betrayal in this case, it's
Speaker 1: not just her, it is their entire family. Can do
Speaker 1: this just to your wife, you betrayed your children, your family.
Speaker 1: It's it's like, oh, it gets me so fired.
Speaker 2: I'm really this Kim tattooing Katie on his wrist, to
Speaker 2: me was the ultimate form of manipulation, of mental manipulation,
Speaker 2: because he's like, look at how serious I am. I
Speaker 2: have permanently put your name on my wrisk and so yeah.
Speaker 2: And so for her, she's going to, whether people think
Speaker 2: so or not, she's going to feel added pressure to
Speaker 2: forgive this man because he's publicly making this beautiful post
Speaker 2: of their wedding picture and with the caption I've been
Speaker 2: sitting in what I did for a couple of months now,
Speaker 2: and I feel so much inside, but it's hard to
Speaker 2: find the right words. At the end of last year,
Speaker 2: I made decisions that I deeply regret, and I'm disappointed
Speaker 2: on where to go of I'm disappointed, ashamed, honestly humbled,
Speaker 2: a lot of hard work, therapy, time with God, blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. Okay, So that's all I would read it.
Speaker 2: When you make public statements like this, you're garnering support
Speaker 2: for yourself hard he's working, he has asked for forgiveness
Speaker 2: from you and from God, and he's sorry. So now,
Speaker 2: if she makes the decision, which I don't think she will,
Speaker 2: but if she makes the decision to get a divorce
Speaker 2: and to move on with her life because she's young
Speaker 2: and there was betrayal and she doesn't think she can
Speaker 2: move past it, which she is not biblically bound to do,
Speaker 2: she will come out the villain in the situation because
Speaker 2: look at how sorry he was. She tattooed your name.
Speaker 2: He's sorry. He's sitting there with his white sneakers and
Speaker 2: your wedding pictures and he's really sorry, and you couldn't
Speaker 2: forgive him.
Speaker 1: You didn't care at the time.
Speaker 2: Did you write and so the comments are, you know,
Speaker 2: God offers grace and she needs to offer grace. They're
Speaker 2: confusing Katie with Jesus. Jesus offers grace, and yes, we
Speaker 2: are to forgive, but that doesn't mean you can forgive somebody.
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean that you need to take him back.
Speaker 2: You can forgive things in your life that hurt you
Speaker 2: from people who hurt you, but that doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: you need to continue on with the relationlationship.
Speaker 1: And like you pointed out, that forgiveness is not for
Speaker 1: the sake of the person that hurt you. Offering that
Speaker 1: forgiveness is for you to find peace.
Speaker 2: Yes, now, again, the decision is Katie's and Katie's alone.
Speaker 2: That the internet is chiming in by the tens of thousands,
Speaker 2: tens of.
Speaker 1: Thousands examples because nuts.
Speaker 2: So on his post, there's so many. I'm so proud
Speaker 2: of you, guys. I fully proud of you. Brother with
Speaker 2: you know sunset, hard hands, walk in obedience. No matter
Speaker 2: the situation it turns, you will know you'll be honored
Speaker 2: through God praying for you, bro. One person wrote, run Katie, run,
Speaker 2: and then people just jumped on that person. How dare you?
Speaker 2: And then somebody else wrote the only way through is through,
Speaker 2: and then somebody else responded, no, sometimes the way through
Speaker 2: is out, and then people jumped on that person. Nope,
Speaker 2: you obviously don't know your Bible.
Speaker 1: What is going on.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's not biblically based to force a woman
Speaker 2: to stay in a marriage after adultery.
Speaker 1: Conversely, what are her comments?
Speaker 2: So her comments are way more critical than his comments.
Speaker 2: So she's going on a four day retreat for her
Speaker 2: mental health. So this woman is clearly tortured right now,
Speaker 2: trying to make it. Yeah, exactly, all of this is
Speaker 2: playing out in public. You're humiliated, You have all this pressure,
Speaker 2: you have people telling you that the only Biblical way,
Speaker 2: the only Christian way of dealing with this, is to
Speaker 2: forgive this man. Basically, you have to or you're not
Speaker 2: a good Christian. You're not a good wife, you're not
Speaker 2: a good mother. Why don't do this to your children
Speaker 2: kind of comments?
Speaker 1: How was that the Christian thing to do?
Speaker 2: She's being criticized for going on a retreat, and then
Speaker 2: she's packing her clothes, she's showing a packing thing. I
Speaker 2: think it was an integration or something like that, a
Speaker 2: brand integration. And then she's like, I'm going to pack
Speaker 2: this clothes because there's some yoga at the retreat. There's
Speaker 2: also equine therapy, so there's horse riding and there's some
Speaker 2: yoga like stretching. People jumped on her for the yoga,
Speaker 2: telling her that if you participate in yoga, that is
Speaker 2: demonic and that's probably why you did it.
Speaker 1: But cheating, she's.
Speaker 2: Demonic, so that's probably why he cheated on her. And so, Katie,
Speaker 2: I understand what you're doing here, but the fact that
Speaker 2: you're doing yoga. They're criticizing this woman because she mentioned
Speaker 2: there's yoga. There's a therapy resort that she's now forced.
Speaker 1: You told me. There were people that are like, why
Speaker 1: aren't you taking your husband with you?
Speaker 2: Is yours?
Speaker 4: You need to bring your husband, the person causing you
Speaker 4: the mental anguish that is causing that is leading to
Speaker 4: you feeling it necessary to go on some kind of retreat.
Speaker 1: With you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how dares she go and try to figure out
Speaker 2: her own mental state and what she needs in her life.
Speaker 2: She should be taking her husband, You should be chaperoning her.
Speaker 1: To this again, It makes total sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I just feel really bad for her because
Speaker 2: she's not truly making a choice for herself. I would
Speaker 2: have loved to see them both step away from social media,
Speaker 2: not post the public affair if it came out in
Speaker 2: the news, on in them news. Guess what, We're not
Speaker 2: answering our phone. We're not reading dms, we're not reading comments.
Speaker 2: We're dealing with this in house, privately, so that I
Speaker 2: can make an informed decision for me and my children.
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Speaker 1: totally agree with you. I don't like that it like
Speaker 1: stuff like this just becomes fodder for the viewing public.
Speaker 1: Like it's it's nobody else's business in the house. Don't
Speaker 1: float this out there. You don't you owe nobody an explanation.
Speaker 1: You don't have to make some public announcement. It's it's
Speaker 1: just it's a fine example of one of the many
Speaker 1: things that bothers me so much about integrating, like family
Speaker 1: families period.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a hard decision. I hard decision if you
Speaker 2: didn't have children, it's not a hard decision at all.
Speaker 2: Out all your young and beautiful.
Speaker 1: She knew whatever she wants. Like we said before, it's
Speaker 1: her decision to make. It's incredibly unfortunate that it happened
Speaker 1: to begin with, but now taking like this entire situation
Speaker 1: and making her twice the victim by with like using
Speaker 1: social media to garner leverage actual little notice the case
Speaker 1: of mental manipulation and manipulation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some people see it that way, but I see
Speaker 2: it as like this man is just such a little weasel.
Speaker 2: He's such a performative little weasel.
Speaker 1: That'd be my opinion as well. I got zero respect
Speaker 1: for men to do this kind of craft dude kind
Speaker 1: of crap like or women. It doesn't Matter's stuff that
Speaker 1: I'm sensitive too because of how the you know, just
Speaker 1: what it is that I experienced growing up, and like
Speaker 1: you know, there have been people along the way. There
Speaker 1: have even been men along the way that I've like
Speaker 1: deferend it, that have gotten themselves involved in stuff like this,
Speaker 1: and I've just repelled them. I do it. I want
Speaker 1: nothing to do with that, right nothing at all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a recipe from misery and it
Speaker 1: always ends horribly.
Speaker 2: Well, and people say, well, they have children, so then
Speaker 2: they have to piece back together because the children adore him,
Speaker 2: So we have reels of them playing and everything, But
Speaker 2: we also had reels of him currently having an affair,
Speaker 2: decorating the entire house to celebrate their anniversary with a
Speaker 2: very performative little caption about how lucky he is and
Speaker 2: she's his best the best friend, and he'll love her
Speaker 2: forever and all this stuff, while he's currently sleeping with
Speaker 2: somebody else. So we don't know anything about the way
Speaker 2: that this man fathers. We do know that he wasn't
Speaker 2: coming home at night because he was sleeping with their girlfriend.
Speaker 1: It's you're a liar. You're a liar, and you're you're
Speaker 1: unfaithful and you're untrustworthy.
Speaker 2: Are you beyond redemption?
Speaker 1: No, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It depends on where your heart is.
Speaker 1: Everyone is capable of redemption. You made a horrible, awful
Speaker 1: mistake and victimize your wife and your kids in the process.
Speaker 4: And now are continuing to do so, and you're continue
Speaker 4: You're still doing it like you're making the same mistake
Speaker 4: repeatedly there.
Speaker 1: It's one thing to make a horrible mistake and learn
Speaker 1: from it and emerge a better person, which is what
Speaker 1: we should all hope for for for anyone ourselves included.
Speaker 2: Like before you make like that, that is like, look
Speaker 2: how sorry I am, and look at how much I
Speaker 2: love my wife. How about before you permanently tattoo her
Speaker 2: name on your wrist and then show it to the
Speaker 2: entire world to garner sympathy. You see if she even
Speaker 2: wants you back, and you give it a while, and
Speaker 2: you prove over years, possibly over decades, that this woman
Speaker 2: can trust you again privately, yes, privately, and let her
Speaker 2: grieve and deal with this privately. You threw this affair
Speaker 2: out into the public, and that's further victimizing her and
Speaker 2: further humiliating.
Speaker 1: And then for the people commenting on this again, shut it, yeah,
Speaker 1: stay out of it.
Speaker 2: Let her decide. Don't tell her that she has to
Speaker 2: do this or she has to do that. This is
Speaker 2: for her to decide.
Speaker 1: You're entitled to your opinion, We're you're offering ours, and
Speaker 1: this is all again this isn't you know.
Speaker 2: Well, we're not saying whether or not she should stay
Speaker 2: or leave. I mean, if it were me, I'd probably
Speaker 2: be out.
Speaker 1: I'm saying she should do what she feels is best
Speaker 1: for herself and for her children.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying, I think for her children, and
Speaker 2: that's probably ultimately what she's thinking. Is this man a
Speaker 2: good father? So can I bear this burden for the
Speaker 2: sake of my children? And I feel torn on that
Speaker 2: one too, because if someone's a really, really good father,
Speaker 2: you don't want to remove the father from the home
Speaker 2: because we all know that that causes damage. She made
Speaker 2: the decision, but the children didn't, and it's ultimately the
Speaker 2: children who suffer. So I understand that mental But at
Speaker 2: the same time, they have a daughter, and what is
Speaker 2: the message that you're giving your daughter That mom wasn't worthy,
Speaker 2: that dad's a liar and a cheat. Also that if
Speaker 2: this happens to you, that you that are expected biblically
Speaker 2: to forgive, you have to. And so you have to
Speaker 2: think about what message does this give? Does it give
Speaker 2: the message off a strong woman? Because there can be
Speaker 2: strength and forgiveness, but there can also be strength and independence.
Speaker 2: So it depends on the situation. They know more about
Speaker 2: the situation than any of us ever could.
Speaker 1: For sure, And so my opinion, not that it matters,
Speaker 1: would be that that's a very passive approach if you're
Speaker 1: gonna take that person back like you are conveying a
Speaker 1: message to Yeah, especially if you have daughters of like, no,
Speaker 1: this is acceptable. These things happen, and I don't I
Speaker 1: don't ever want one of my kids to think that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: A true mistake. I think true mistakes can happen in
Speaker 2: the heat of the moment, maybe under alcohol, maybe one time.
Speaker 2: You don't put it on going relationship while pretending to
Speaker 2: be a good husband, while making content about what I
Speaker 2: want to while releasing new Christian songs.
Speaker 1: Tell me about this one and controversial take. Feel free
Speaker 1: to let me know what you think done in the comments.
Speaker 1: Can men and women, especially if they're married, but even
Speaker 1: if they're just involved in a really long term relationship
Speaker 1: with a serious relationship, Can men and women have a
Speaker 1: platonic friendship with a member of the opposite sex? Is
Speaker 1: that something that you're comfortable with now? Because I am
Speaker 1: not comfortable with it.
Speaker 2: I don't think that. I think that there are very
Speaker 2: very rare instances, very rare, And because it is the exception,
Speaker 2: the big exception to the rule, because whenever a man
Speaker 2: and a woman get along really well, they'll start seeing
Speaker 2: flaws in their spouse or in their boyfriends or girlfriends.
Speaker 1: You'll just start there.
Speaker 2: It'll be like, look at how fun this person is.
Speaker 2: It's because you don't live.
Speaker 1: With that person. And I'm not saying, like, you know,
Speaker 1: like you don't have a casual conversation like you you
Speaker 1: have long term male friends, one that we're dealing with
Speaker 1: right now, Like I don't like something that doesn't bother me.
Speaker 1: You had other people in social media.
Speaker 2: I'm not going and hanging out with the right it
Speaker 2: was like.
Speaker 1: Oh, hey, have a good day at work, honey, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go hang out with Bob.
Speaker 3: For I'd be like, oh, oh yeah, And I would
Speaker 3: expect the same on you, Like for you to place
Speaker 3: those same expectations upon me, I would never consider to
Speaker 3: be unreasonable.
Speaker 2: If you were like, Hey, this girl that I knew
Speaker 2: from Hawaii is in town. You're going to go get
Speaker 2: lunch with her. That's funny because that No.
Speaker 1: You don't play with fire, No you don't. You don't
Speaker 1: do yourself in these situations. And that's why I'm saying, like,
Speaker 1: for you to be like, I understand, like, mistakes can happen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they can, but that's why you avoid those situations, right,
Speaker 1: you know, for.
Speaker 2: Yourself those situation And then if the mistake does happen,
Speaker 2: there's a mistake. Is you tripped and you fell, you know,
Speaker 2: but you fell in it. But it's kind of like
Speaker 2: with kids if they drop something and they shatter it
Speaker 2: and it breaks, like, ah, that was a mistake, that
Speaker 2: was an accident. But if they continually break things on
Speaker 2: purpose and they make the choice, just like they break
Speaker 2: a window with a baseball, and then they grab the
Speaker 2: baseball and they go, that was fun. I'm gonna throw
Speaker 2: it and break out all the other windows. And then
Speaker 2: they try to say it was a mistake. It's not
Speaker 2: a mistake, that was a conscious decision.
Speaker 1: Weird analogy, but I get your parint. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: just I don't know. Again, I'm sentive to do situations.
Speaker 1: Let us know what you think down in the comments below.
Speaker 1: For one, can men and women be friends? Seriously? Blown
Speaker 1: it out there. I'm sure many of you have had
Speaker 1: a platonic relationship with a member of the opposite sex
Speaker 1: while involved in a serious.
Speaker 2: Can there be true redemption in a marriage where somebody
Speaker 2: has betrayed the trust with an ongoing relationship. I'm not
Speaker 2: talking about on one night stant I'm talking about somebody
Speaker 2: had a relationship. Can there ever be true trust again?
Speaker 2: And or is that just a burden that the person
Speaker 2: who forgave bears forever? You know, Like I've made the decision,
Speaker 2: but as somebody, I haven't been cheated on, but I'm
Speaker 2: sure we have people in our audience that have been
Speaker 2: cheated on and have forgiven. Do you carry that burden forever?
Speaker 2: Or or can you actually? Is our true redemption to
Speaker 2: be found found?
Speaker 1: But I mean, that's that's a scarring traumatic.
Speaker 2: Can it ever be what it was before?
Speaker 1: I would argue it cannot be? Personally, that's me Lest
Speaker 1: you guys think down in the common section, we're gonna
Speaker 1: find this one down. The kids are supposed to be
Speaker 1: coming home right now. Again.
Speaker 2: I've been listening, literally, I've been listening for the grave
Speaker 2: we have asphole. Now see the gravel used to go
Speaker 2: IFDA has a quiet car. So I'm hoping they're home now,
Speaker 2: but I hope they.
Speaker 1: Make it back safely. On all the ducklings back properly,
Speaker 1: all right? Anyway, you guys, say care, Thank you for
Speaker 1: being here once again, love and appreciate you. We will
Speaker 1: see you next week.
Speaker 2: Yep, we'll be here next week.
Speaker 1: We'll see you here on the New World Post Whole podcast.
Speaker 1: You guys, take care,