WEBVTT - Forgiving Infidelity Online & How Many Is Too Many? (Why Married Couples Struggle On YouTube) 

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<v Speaker 1>All right. First of all, I just want to say

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<v Speaker 1>that color looks absolutely stunning on you.

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<v Speaker 2>It looks likewise on you.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much, Twins. Totally unintentional on our part,

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<v Speaker 1>but we welcome you back here to be WORLDLDSHO podcast friends,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks for being here once again. Today we were talking

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<v Speaker 1>about some marriage and fidelity, believe it or not, controversial

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<v Speaker 1>topic and subject quite taboo, but there's been some online

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<v Speaker 1>chatter this week about exactly that with some people that

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<v Speaker 1>are far more prominent and well known than we are online,

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<v Speaker 1>which I'm okay with, Yeah, and for a variety of reasons,

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<v Speaker 1>stuff like this being one of them. But there have

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<v Speaker 1>been a couple of instances of some female wives, some

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<v Speaker 1>ladies who have been getting a lot of input, let's say,

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<v Speaker 1>from their individual audiences, and we wanted to discuss that

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<v Speaker 1>because it goes into just something greater, whether it be faith, religion, marriage,

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<v Speaker 1>the interpersonal communication that we have with our audiences. So

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<v Speaker 1>let's jump into that discussion without wasting any time. If

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<v Speaker 1>I seem a little off today, it's because two of

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<v Speaker 1>our babies are out of the house and off the property.

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<v Speaker 2>And our actual baby did not sleep oh wink. Last

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<v Speaker 2>night and you woke up inconsolable four times. He's got

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<v Speaker 2>two top teeth coming in, some allergies going on. It

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<v Speaker 2>was brutal.

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<v Speaker 1>It has been a day, day, It has been a day.

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<v Speaker 1>But Kaimani and Neva are audit here and I'm always

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<v Speaker 1>very distracted when my babies aren't near to you and

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<v Speaker 1>I we like.

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<v Speaker 2>The death things to be under the wings.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, especially with Kaimani because big difference between a young man,

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<v Speaker 1>young teenage boy and a female daughter. Anyway, I'm wasting time.

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<v Speaker 1>I said, if we were going to do that, let's

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<v Speaker 1>jump into the conversation.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So this week I saw that Hannah Nielman. She

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<v Speaker 2>most of you guys know her as Ballerina Farms. She

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<v Speaker 2>is probably the most prominent trad wife, which is short

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<v Speaker 2>for a traditional wife. She is one of the LDS

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<v Speaker 2>influencers in Utah. So we have seen a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>yeschad wife influencers a rise up because this whole take

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<v Speaker 2>back femininity movement has exploded on Instagram and TikTok and

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<v Speaker 2>now it's pouring over onto YouTube as well.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not seeing any of this.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, probably not fit to you. So essentially it's this

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<v Speaker 2>beautiful aesthetic of motherhood and having lots of free range babies,

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<v Speaker 2>and everything's natural wood colored, and there's aprons, and there's chickens,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's barefoot babies and overalls with like one strap hanging,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's sour dough. There's all of that.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is athetic, it's an esthetic. This is all

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<v Speaker 1>a portrayal. Like everything you see online.

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<v Speaker 2>I find it. I have mixed opinions on it because

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<v Speaker 2>I think part of it sets an unrealistic expectation for

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<v Speaker 2>what motherhood and being a wife looks like. But at

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<v Speaker 2>the same time, it's wholesome content and it sure beats

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<v Speaker 2>like the only fans stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, if you like it, so be it, just not

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<v Speaker 1>in my couple of tea.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that it's wholesome and it's beautiful, but I

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<v Speaker 2>understand that it's an aesthetic and that it's performative, and

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<v Speaker 2>then enjoy it understanding. Yes, yeah, because nobody's life is perfect.

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<v Speaker 2>Nobody just silently speaks in a whisper while making sour

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<v Speaker 2>dough with eight children at their feet. If you have

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<v Speaker 2>eight children at you, well yeah, I'll bake bread with

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<v Speaker 2>children at my feet. But it's like he's pulling my

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<v Speaker 2>pants down, like, grab him, somebody grab him. My hands

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<v Speaker 2>are sticky, you know, that's what it sounds like. It

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't sound like this.

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<v Speaker 1>It's chaos. Yes, fairness is and that's okay.

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<v Speaker 2>It's beautiful chaos, but it is what it is. That

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<v Speaker 2>does not make a good aesthetic. Nobody wants to watch that.

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<v Speaker 1>So how did she step in it? This week? And

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<v Speaker 1>then we'll let's delve into the background on her and

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<v Speaker 1>her husband as well, because that's the part that I

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<v Speaker 1>actually found interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I find Hannah Nielman very interesting. The reason they're

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<v Speaker 2>called ballerina farms is because she was a prima ballerina

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<v Speaker 2>at New York's Julliard and she met her husband. I

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<v Speaker 2>believe they got married eleven or twelve years ago. She

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<v Speaker 2>met her husband at Juilliard. I don't know why he

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<v Speaker 2>was skulking around Juilliard looking for a ballerina, but essentially

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<v Speaker 2>he was very wealthy. His family owns Jet Blue, the airline,

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<v Speaker 2>and he asked her out. She said no. He asked

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<v Speaker 2>her out again, she wasn't interested. Then he somehow figured

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<v Speaker 2>out what flight she was on, bought a ticket, made

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<v Speaker 2>sure that he was sitting there holst to her, for sure, stopper.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a little weird I would think so as a young.

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<v Speaker 1>Girl, no judgment.

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<v Speaker 2>They were the same age, so it's not I'd be

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<v Speaker 2>a little weirded out. But he really wanted to meet Hannah.

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<v Speaker 2>He really wanted to date Hannah. She took it as Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>this guy's really serious about it. I'll give him a

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<v Speaker 2>first date. They hit it off, they got married. Since then,

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<v Speaker 2>they have had eight children in eleven years until this week.

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<v Speaker 2>And they just announced maybe five or six days ago

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<v Speaker 2>through an ad campaign that she was pregnant with number

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<v Speaker 2>nine and ready to burst pregnant with number nine.

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<v Speaker 1>So this came as a surprise to everyone.

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<v Speaker 2>Yep, they were hiding it and.

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<v Speaker 1>So joyous congratulations. It should be a happy occasion.

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<v Speaker 2>It should, for sure. So what they did is so

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<v Speaker 2>they have a lot of products. She's kind of ane.

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<v Speaker 2>Joanna gains in a way because they're going to eventually

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<v Speaker 2>be having a store where you can go and shop.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you can already shop the store, but they

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<v Speaker 2>think they were talking about doing a bakery and other stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>so essentially like a Magnolia Market, but Ballerina.

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<v Speaker 1>Farm because they are both eldos yep.

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<v Speaker 2>They have. I mean, she has nine million million followers

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<v Speaker 2>on TikTok, seven and a half million followers on Instagram,

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<v Speaker 2>one point six million on YouTube. She is huge. She

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<v Speaker 2>has got a massive following. And so it's not like

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<v Speaker 2>she's a stay at home mom. She's a mogul. She's

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<v Speaker 2>very successful at what she does, and I think that's great.

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<v Speaker 2>And so they have like all kinds of stuff. I

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<v Speaker 2>actually really like their Electrolyt drink. If you're looking for

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<v Speaker 2>a good I buy it. I drink it. I did

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<v Speaker 2>through my pregnancy because she did through her pregnancy, so

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<v Speaker 2>I trusted it because her babies are healthy, and so

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<v Speaker 2>now they just are releasing a protein powder. And the

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<v Speaker 2>commercial was beautiful, and it was all of these Juilliard

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<v Speaker 2>dancers doing ballet and then it was her and it

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<v Speaker 2>was the slogan was something like strength but it looks

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<v Speaker 2>different now, our strength on a different stage or something

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<v Speaker 2>like that. And she's talking about motherhood. So she's watching

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<v Speaker 2>these dancers dance like she used to, and then she

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<v Speaker 2>pulls her jacket back and she's big and pregnant with

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<v Speaker 2>number nine. Beautiful commercial. I loved it, and the internet

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<v Speaker 2>lost their minds Baby number nine he's breeding her like

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<v Speaker 2>a cow. This is just ridiculous. This man is manipulating

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<v Speaker 2>her and all of this and the whole thing started

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<v Speaker 2>because I think it was The London Times did an

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<v Speaker 2>article on her where they essentially asked to come out

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<v Speaker 2>and meet the most famous trat wife and do a

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<v Speaker 2>article on her family. She agreed. They were very kind.

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<v Speaker 2>They had this reporter in their home and you know

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<v Speaker 2>that old story, how that goes there done that, they

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<v Speaker 2>wrote essentially a hit piece on ballerina farm and on

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<v Speaker 2>Hannah and her husband and how she was this gorgeous

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<v Speaker 2>dancer and all she ever wanted to be was a

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<v Speaker 2>ballerina and now she's this this stay at home trad

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<v Speaker 2>wife that is just bred yearly. All she's allowed to

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<v Speaker 2>do is have babies, and a lot of stuff has

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<v Speaker 2>been kind of taken.

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<v Speaker 1>They're grossed up by the fact that she abandoned this

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<v Speaker 1>independent streak as a strong woman and she gave all

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<v Speaker 1>that up for this traditional lifestyle where she is having

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<v Speaker 1>a litter of.

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<v Speaker 2>Children, yes, a litter of children.

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<v Speaker 1>That there's anything wrong with her, no, And she.

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<v Speaker 2>Homeschools, she doesn't have a nanny, which I'm like, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>we've got a wealthy family here that doesn't utilize a nanny.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's fantastic, and she runs a business. To me,

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<v Speaker 2>she's a true proverb thirty one woman.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really refreshing, especially having gotten to know so many

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<v Speaker 1>people in the online space. We are parents who, much

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<v Speaker 1>like we said here at the jump of this episode

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<v Speaker 1>of podcasts, we like our babies to be close. We're

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<v Speaker 1>always around. We do the homeschooling thing. But you know, obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>but so many people become so dedicated and devoted to

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<v Speaker 1>creating content that they will like very happily cast their

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<v Speaker 1>children aside and I'll offer them to be raised essentially

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<v Speaker 1>by somebody else, which I don't personally agree with.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, they will get nanny's for the daytime, nanny's for

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<v Speaker 2>the nighttime. And we see that with gossipy podcasters, for example,

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<v Speaker 2>that I think that children don't wake up at two

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<v Speaker 2>thirty in the morning because that's when their rem sleep is,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's.

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<v Speaker 1>I was totally unaware of this, but I'm making an

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<v Speaker 1>assumption annoying that we were talking about.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm talking about Cantazon. So she literally was attacking Erica

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<v Speaker 2>Kirk because Erica said the night before Charlie was assassinated

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<v Speaker 2>that their daughter woke up at two in the morning

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<v Speaker 2>and got into their bed, which she regularly does. Yeh,

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<v Speaker 2>so total sidebar. Anyway, the fact that she was like

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<v Speaker 2>a childrenn get up at two thirty. I'm thinking this

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<v Speaker 2>woman as a night nanny if you don't know that

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<v Speaker 2>children regularly get up at two thirty because they don't

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<v Speaker 2>know that rem sleep is on a schedule, because it's

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<v Speaker 2>not anyway, total cyber. See I'm just now I'm venting

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<v Speaker 2>go back in my little so with Hannah Nielman. She

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't have nanny's I respect that she homeschools her kids.

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<v Speaker 2>She bakes from scratch, she has a beautiful garden. Does

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<v Speaker 2>she have a staff and that's why her place looks fantastic. Absolutely,

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<v Speaker 2>they have a staff, but the staff does not nanny

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<v Speaker 2>the children. She raises her babies. And that was part

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<v Speaker 2>of the criticism of this article. They're like she took

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<v Speaker 2>her baby, who was very young at the time, and

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<v Speaker 2>laid it on her chest, where it remained for the

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<v Speaker 2>four hour interview, like as if that was a bad thing. Fantastic, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so we're babies, her babies stay and it's funny because

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<v Speaker 2>I get a lot of crap for that too. I

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<v Speaker 2>wear Micah a lot. If the weather is nice, I

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<v Speaker 2>will be wearing Micah as long as he's tolerating it.

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<v Speaker 2>We all do it, Yeah, and we all sleep with Micah,

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<v Speaker 2>you and.

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<v Speaker 1>I, especially the kids. The kids do a great job too.

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<v Speaker 1>We cherish him because we now have the benefit of

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<v Speaker 1>hindsight and knowing that this goes really quickly, and so

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<v Speaker 1>we are soaking up every moment that we possibly can.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, contact napping didn't used to be a thing, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's very much now. We know all of the mental

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<v Speaker 2>benefits and all of the physical benefits of contact napping.

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<v Speaker 2>They sleep better, they feel more secure, it's good for

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<v Speaker 2>their cortisol levels, and awesome. It's so awesome, like your

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<v Speaker 2>little head and their little noises and their little mouth

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<v Speaker 2>and breath. It sounds good anyway anyway, An there's that.

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<v Speaker 2>So Hannah does a great job. And if she wants

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<v Speaker 2>to have nine babies, go for it, like she is

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<v Speaker 2>killing it. They can afford it. She's there for them.

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<v Speaker 2>The kids look happy, healthy, they're always interacting. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>see any problem with it. But the internet is saying

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<v Speaker 2>there's a few things. One is why are you bringing

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<v Speaker 2>children into such a broken world when all this stuff

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<v Speaker 2>is happening all of you know, war on the horizon,

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<v Speaker 2>and why would you ever bring children into a world

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<v Speaker 2>that looks like this, especially so many children? And then

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<v Speaker 2>the other criticism is you can't possibly love that many

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<v Speaker 2>children or give them the attention that they need.

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<v Speaker 1>Absord So what do you take? What you take on? Honestly,

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<v Speaker 1>I will go off on this topic if you'd like

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<v Speaker 1>me too.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been sharing about my favorite clean makeup and skincare

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<v Speaker 2>brand for a few weeks now, and I've had so

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<v Speaker 2>many of you guys writing to ask me what is

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<v Speaker 2>the name of it? So it is Tooops and Cut

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm absolutely in love with everything that I've tried

0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.640
<v Speaker 2>so far. When I actually started paying attention to ingredients

0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.439
<v Speaker 2>and fragrances, I realized that I've been slathering hundreds of

0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.800
<v Speaker 2>harmful chemicals onto my skin my entire life. And our

0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.920
<v Speaker 2>is our body's largest organ Everything that we put on

0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:05.679
<v Speaker 2>it is absorbed right into our bodies. So I instantly

0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:08.080
<v Speaker 2>dumped all my old skincare and makeup for Toops and Co.

0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:10.800
<v Speaker 2>Now what I absolutely loved about Toops and Co Was

0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:13.880
<v Speaker 2>they use only super clean ingredients. I can get everything

0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.480
<v Speaker 2>I need in one place, and they have really nice

0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.480
<v Speaker 2>products that also nourish my skin while I wear them now.

0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:23.680
<v Speaker 2>I absolutely hate cakey makeup that feels heavy or greasy

0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.280
<v Speaker 2>and it settles into all my fine lines. But Toops

0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:29.160
<v Speaker 2>and Cod just feels so light and it looks really natural.

0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:33.040
<v Speaker 2>Normally I avoid liquid foundation, but I absolutely love theirs.

0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Today I'm wearing the primer, the liquid foundation, the cream blush,

0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:39.679
<v Speaker 2>the natural eyepalette, the mascara, and the lipstick, and they

0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.800
<v Speaker 2>are by far my favorite makeup that I've ever tried.

0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.160
<v Speaker 2>Besides the makeup, I have been loving the bombs. The

0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:49.120
<v Speaker 2>Frankinson's balm is a fantastic natural retinol alternative, and the

0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.880
<v Speaker 2>body bombs are so moisturizing and they smell amazing. I

0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.960
<v Speaker 2>also got Baby Mica the Baby Bomb, and it clears

0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:58.600
<v Speaker 2>up all that teething rash and his chapped little chin

0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.840
<v Speaker 2>and cheeks overnight, and I highly recommend it to anyone

0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.000
<v Speaker 2>that has littles in their life. So if you're like

0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:05.480
<v Speaker 2>me and you want to clean up your health and

0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.160
<v Speaker 2>everything that you're putting on your skin without giving up quality,

0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.840
<v Speaker 2>definitely go check out tups and Co. In fact, you

0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.079
<v Speaker 2>will get twenty five percent off your first order by

0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.200
<v Speaker 2>going to toopsinco dot com slash old soul and when

0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.440
<v Speaker 2>you do, remember to use our code old soul for

0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:20.200
<v Speaker 2>twenty five percent off your first order.

0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:21.880
<v Speaker 1>I will go off on this topic if you'd like

0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:23.480
<v Speaker 1>me too, because I get so sick and tired. We

0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.160
<v Speaker 1>get some of this too. We have five kids. I

0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:29.559
<v Speaker 1>love all of my children. It doesn't take away any

0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:34.679
<v Speaker 1>ounce of love, care, or affection having a number of children.

0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.160
<v Speaker 1>It really does not, especially when it comes to Michael.

0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Like I said, experiences taught us so much and it's

0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.560
<v Speaker 1>amplified that love tremendously. Plus, people can have as many

0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:45.880
<v Speaker 1>kids as they freaking want to. Sorry is if you

0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.720
<v Speaker 1>have the means to do so, and you know you're

0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:52.199
<v Speaker 1>providing your children with a fantastic quality of life. I

0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:53.640
<v Speaker 1>don't care if you have twelve kids. I don't care

0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:57.600
<v Speaker 1>if you have twenty kids. It pisses me off that

0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.680
<v Speaker 1>anyone out there would try to encourage somebody else to

0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:03.720
<v Speaker 1>make the conscious decision to deprive themselves of the long

0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.560
<v Speaker 1>term happiness that you get to experience with having a

0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:11.640
<v Speaker 1>large family. It's not only fantastic from a parental standpoint,

0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:14.120
<v Speaker 1>but now that we have older children and a younger child,

0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.920
<v Speaker 1>a one year old nearly one year old, crazy to say,

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.520
<v Speaker 1>it's so beautiful to watch them interact. It is so

0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.760
<v Speaker 1>incredibly fulfilling. There is nothing greater. And you know, I'm

0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.680
<v Speaker 1>somebody who was raised as an only child. I didn't

0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:30.440
<v Speaker 1>have any of this experience growing up myself. Yeah, being

0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.280
<v Speaker 1>a parent and seeing all of this come together, there's

0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:37.600
<v Speaker 1>something that's so pure about it and just raw. It

0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:39.520
<v Speaker 1>warms your heart like nothing else in this world.

0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:41.080
<v Speaker 2>I love siblings.

0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:41.560
<v Speaker 3>Now.

0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:43.440
<v Speaker 2>I grew up with siblings. You didn't, so you didn't

0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.360
<v Speaker 2>have that experience. When we first started having children, you were,

0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.960
<v Speaker 2>we had you were. If you don't have any more kids,

0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:52.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm good. I'm good with one. There's something wrong with

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.200
<v Speaker 2>raising one child. And then we had the two and

0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:55.800
<v Speaker 2>you were good.

0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:57.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I've come around over time, But I mean, I

0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:59.440
<v Speaker 1>guess the biggest my biggest gripe is the fact that,

0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.920
<v Speaker 1>like you, anyone out there feels comfortable telling somebody else

0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.000
<v Speaker 1>what they should do with their own lives. You know,

0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:05.760
<v Speaker 1>if it's a situation where like you don't have the

0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.360
<v Speaker 1>means okay, so so be it. Maybe there's you know,

0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.640
<v Speaker 1>a private, actually conversation that can take place and transpire,

0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:13.640
<v Speaker 1>but like you don't, you don't get to tell anybody

0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:15.040
<v Speaker 1>else in this world what it is that they can

0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:17.040
<v Speaker 1>or cannot do. I'm sorry, I don't.

0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Agree with Tucker's whole have more kids than you can

0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:20.400
<v Speaker 2>like you always said, they have more kids than you

0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:22.400
<v Speaker 2>can afford. I see what he's saying. I get, but

0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't think you should have more kids than you

0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:26.680
<v Speaker 2>can afford, and you shouldn't make it somebody else's problem.

0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:28.880
<v Speaker 2>I also don't think you should keep popping out kids

0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.280
<v Speaker 2>if you're not going to actively be there to raise them,

0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:33.800
<v Speaker 2>if you're just throwing them into daycare and you're going

0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:36.840
<v Speaker 2>back to work, and you're putting your priorities or what

0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.400
<v Speaker 2>you want or what you think you need, but it's

0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.960
<v Speaker 2>really it's what you want above the welfare of your children,

0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:46.480
<v Speaker 2>because I truly think that, at least for the first

0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.240
<v Speaker 2>three to four years, your children need to be at

0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:53.360
<v Speaker 2>home with mom all day. I truly truly believe that

0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.760
<v Speaker 2>for their mental well being. And I've seen a lot

0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.960
<v Speaker 2>of stuff on that there was this whole healthy attack

0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.960
<v Speaker 2>disorder thing going on where they showed two children, and

0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:07.200
<v Speaker 2>there was this one little girl who was very uncomfortable

0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:10.040
<v Speaker 2>in this play public play situation, and she was holding

0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.200
<v Speaker 2>on to her mom, and when her mom left the room,

0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:14.480
<v Speaker 2>she melted down. They had a stranger come in and

0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:16.520
<v Speaker 2>show her all these toys and try to entertain her,

0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.360
<v Speaker 2>and the little girls not having it. She was hiding,

0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.320
<v Speaker 2>and then when her mom came back, she ran to her.

0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:22.320
<v Speaker 1>Crying proper response.

0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:24.840
<v Speaker 2>And then they showed a little girl who's playing with

0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.520
<v Speaker 2>her mom in this public play area. Then the mom leaves.

0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.000
<v Speaker 2>The little girl doesn't even notice mom left, She's just playing.

0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.080
<v Speaker 2>A stranger comes in, starts showing her toys. She plays

0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:34.760
<v Speaker 2>with the stranger in the same way that she was

0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:36.480
<v Speaker 2>playing with her mom. She did not care that she

0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:37.320
<v Speaker 2>didn't know that woman.

0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:40.760
<v Speaker 1>That's a product of our society and we do.

0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. They were asking the Internet, which one is proper attachment,

0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.800
<v Speaker 2>and almost everybody said the little girl that was unfazed,

0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.440
<v Speaker 2>and the correct answer was no, the little girl who

0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.080
<v Speaker 2>was very alarmed that her mother was leaving, that a

0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:58.400
<v Speaker 2>stranger was entering. That's proper attachment at the age of two.

0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:01.320
<v Speaker 2>That is the way that it's supposed to be. Micah

0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.400
<v Speaker 2>hates when I leave, if I go to the bathroom,

0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.160
<v Speaker 2>he melts down. But you know what, he's ten months old,

0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.560
<v Speaker 2>and at his age, that is proper attachment. He realizes

0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.960
<v Speaker 2>that we are separate people now, lifelines. He realizes that

0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:17.840
<v Speaker 2>I can leave and he doesn't like that, And that's

0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:20.920
<v Speaker 2>actually a healthy feeling and soul.

0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.280
<v Speaker 1>Those are the things that people are willing to criticize

0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:25.439
<v Speaker 1>and critique. Right, you're holding your child too much with me,

0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.840
<v Speaker 1>You're holding out that I can't hold my child enough.

0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:31.680
<v Speaker 1>You're having too many kids. Granted, there are situations where

0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:33.840
<v Speaker 1>maybe that can be the case, but when you're talking

0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:36.840
<v Speaker 1>about it, just a normal, happy, healthy family who functions

0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.640
<v Speaker 1>in a way that is isn't a detriment to anybody.

0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.560
<v Speaker 1>Why are you speaking up having five children brings me

0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:45.920
<v Speaker 1>tremendous joy. Why would you ever try to go out

0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:47.200
<v Speaker 1>of your way to make that a negative thing. I

0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:48.520
<v Speaker 1>just don't understand this mentality.

0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.040
<v Speaker 2>And having nine children brought them tremendous joy. And she

0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.960
<v Speaker 2>is sitting in bed looking fantastic right after she gave

0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.160
<v Speaker 2>birth to her ninth child. Fantastic. She's oh, by the way,

0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.600
<v Speaker 2>baby number nine arrived last night. So I'm like you, also,

0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:03.199
<v Speaker 2>you haven't slept and you look like that.

0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.919
<v Speaker 1>You just fresh criticize that more than having nine children,

0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:08.880
<v Speaker 1>because you know that's not the case. In the other way,

0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:10.320
<v Speaker 1>to make things look a certain way.

0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:12.160
<v Speaker 2>They were just announcing her birth. It was very quick.

0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.400
<v Speaker 2>It was a quick little story baby.

0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:16.600
<v Speaker 1>Number nine, and very raw.

0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:18.560
<v Speaker 2>She looked like she had just given birth. She was

0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:20.840
<v Speaker 2>still in bed. I'm pretty sure she was still sitting

0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:22.280
<v Speaker 2>on the little birth pad and whatever.

0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:23.880
<v Speaker 1>And she had the baby visioning something else.

0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.200
<v Speaker 2>But no, she was no makeup. She she just looks

0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:31.119
<v Speaker 2>that way. It's a woman's beautiful. She's just granola to

0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.640
<v Speaker 2>the mass, but in the best glowy way. I must

0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:36.639
<v Speaker 2>know what she should buy the protein.

0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:41.680
<v Speaker 1>So all of the criticism has revolved around the fact

0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:42.840
<v Speaker 1>that they're having just too.

0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:45.720
<v Speaker 2>Many kids, too many kids, and that the internet is

0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.840
<v Speaker 2>convinced that this woman is being held captive by this

0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.440
<v Speaker 2>man and that he is forcing her to have these

0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.879
<v Speaker 2>babies that she doesn't want. And I recognize that newborn bliss.

0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.600
<v Speaker 2>She literally said, we're just in newborn bliss right now.

0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.000
<v Speaker 2>And she has eighteen months old or two year old

0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:04.399
<v Speaker 2>and pretty much every eighteen months. She's had a baby

0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:05.400
<v Speaker 2>for the last eleven years.

0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:07.080
<v Speaker 1>It's a lot of kids in a very short period

0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:08.679
<v Speaker 1>of time. But again, that's their life, so be it.

0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:10.679
<v Speaker 1>They get to decide for themselves. What I think all

0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:12.080
<v Speaker 1>of that stems from is just the fact that you

0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:15.000
<v Speaker 1>have certain people, certain groups of people, who have this

0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.719
<v Speaker 1>thought process where like, no, we need to leave all

0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:19.640
<v Speaker 1>of that behind, We need to evolve, move on and

0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:24.399
<v Speaker 1>become something new entirely. Women especially need to embrace this

0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.000
<v Speaker 1>streak of independence that that so many of them have.

0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:28.679
<v Speaker 1>And maybe she did genuinely feel that way at one

0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:30.800
<v Speaker 1>point in time when she was attending Juilliard, but you're

0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.520
<v Speaker 1>allowed to change your mind right and think for yourself

0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.360
<v Speaker 1>and find that happiness and fulfillment for yourself. For them

0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:38.720
<v Speaker 1>to go out of their way to vilify her husband

0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.480
<v Speaker 1>by default and say, no, this is your doing. You

0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:44.600
<v Speaker 1>just manipulated her. We have a great example of actual

0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:47.280
<v Speaker 1>spousal manipulation that we're going to discuss here in a second,

0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:49.200
<v Speaker 1>and that'll be Yeah, I can't wait to dive into that one.

0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.280
<v Speaker 1>But for both of them, if they're happy, if they're

0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:56.199
<v Speaker 1>contented and they're ecstatic with their situation. Good for them.

0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:56.840
<v Speaker 1>Shut your mouth.

0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:00.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know. And the business building is tremendou it's

0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.720
<v Speaker 2>very successful. I hope that they continue their success. I

0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.800
<v Speaker 2>think that they have a very beautiful example. If I

0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:11.800
<v Speaker 2>see differently, I'll say I was wrong. But them right now,

0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:13.679
<v Speaker 2>they seem happy, they seem healthy.

0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:15.639
<v Speaker 1>They're a family and people who should be looked at

0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:17.760
<v Speaker 1>as being like an example of what is possible again,

0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:19.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, like I hate seeing this, whether it be

0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:22.399
<v Speaker 1>somebody who finds financial success, find success within their family,

0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:24.840
<v Speaker 1>it's like, let's let's tear that person down because they

0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:26.760
<v Speaker 1>broke away from the herd and they're doing their own

0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.399
<v Speaker 1>thing and they found something that works for themselves. I

0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.399
<v Speaker 1>had the inability thus far to do that, so I

0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:32.800
<v Speaker 1>got to come after you. I got to pull you

0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.679
<v Speaker 1>back down into the bucket. How dare you thrive and

0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:36.879
<v Speaker 1>be successful where I'm not?

0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:43.080
<v Speaker 2>And her being successful as a trad wife does not destroy.

0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:46.800
<v Speaker 1>The you know, it doesn't take anything, doesn't take anything.

0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:48.920
<v Speaker 2>Away from somebody who chooses not to have children, or

0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:51.560
<v Speaker 2>chooses a career, or chooses to have a boy and

0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:54.240
<v Speaker 2>a girl and that's it and be done. It doesn't

0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:57.800
<v Speaker 2>affect those people, so She's not going after you, So

0:20:57.800 --> 0:20:59.040
<v Speaker 2>why are people if you.

0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Are that independent woman and U chose career over having

0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:05.960
<v Speaker 1>a traditional family and lifestyle. Again, congratulations, do what you

0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:08.000
<v Speaker 1>want to do. Everybody else should shut their mouths.

0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:13.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, So anyway, congratulations to the Nielman family. Corret adorable.

0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:15.520
<v Speaker 2>All right, guys, Easter is just around the corner and

0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:18.000
<v Speaker 2>we're all starting to think about filling up those baskets

0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:19.680
<v Speaker 2>for all the little ones in our lives now. For

0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:23.000
<v Speaker 2>many kids today, Easter means egg hunts, candy, and of

0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:26.080
<v Speaker 2>course the Easter Buddy. These are all really fun traditions,

0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:29.000
<v Speaker 2>but they can also overshadow the true meaning of why

0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:33.560
<v Speaker 2>we celebrate Easter and how the resurrection of Jesus changed everything.

0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:35.520
<v Speaker 1>So they usually try to find the perfect basket stuffers.

0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:37.639
<v Speaker 1>Definitely go check out the incredible story that Brave Books

0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:41.160
<v Speaker 1>just released from Christian apologists Melissa Doherty called The Day

0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:43.359
<v Speaker 1>That Made the Way to help families clearly explain the

0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:45.359
<v Speaker 1>real story of Easter and the gospel behind it.

0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:47.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, The Day That Made the Way is a sweet

0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:51.080
<v Speaker 2>story about creatures living in darkness until light enters the world,

0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:55.639
<v Speaker 2>helping kids understand big biblical ideas like sin, redemption, and

0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:57.520
<v Speaker 2>why Jesus had to die and rise again.

0:21:57.800 --> 0:21:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Milsa wrote it because she knows firsthand how easily people

0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:02.320
<v Speaker 1>can be drawn towards spiritual ideas that sound good but

0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:04.720
<v Speaker 1>drift away from biblical truth, especially if they were never

0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:06.280
<v Speaker 1>grounded in scripture early in life.

0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:08.720
<v Speaker 2>In addition to the Day That Made the Way, Brave

0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:11.360
<v Speaker 2>also has a very sweet Easter bundle that is perfect

0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:13.919
<v Speaker 2>for every basket. This year, I got the whole bundle

0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:16.240
<v Speaker 2>and there are two incredible books, a coloring book and

0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:20.399
<v Speaker 2>activity books, stickers, colored pencils, and the cutest, softest bunny.

0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:22.600
<v Speaker 2>Just add some sweets in your all set.

0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:24.240
<v Speaker 1>Also right now, if you join the Brave Book Club,

0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:26.000
<v Speaker 1>which we've been telling you guys about for months now,

0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:27.800
<v Speaker 1>you'll get The Day That Made the Way for free,

0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:30.159
<v Speaker 1>along with the new children's book each month designed to

0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:33.280
<v Speaker 1>help families teach biblical values and a Christian worldview. When

0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:36.160
<v Speaker 1>you go to Brave Books dot Com slash Easter. Okay,

0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:38.080
<v Speaker 1>story number two. This is the one that I'm excited

0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:41.600
<v Speaker 1>to jump into because you I'm not familiar with this.

0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:43.760
<v Speaker 1>I have no first hand experience in reviewing any of this,

0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:45.320
<v Speaker 1>but you and a Vela were going off telling me

0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:47.520
<v Speaker 1>about it and this is insanity.

0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:49.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I told you a little bit about it when

0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:52.120
<v Speaker 2>we were in Hawaii. That's when the story broke, and

0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:54.640
<v Speaker 2>then since then I've just kind of been following it.

0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:57.320
<v Speaker 1>And before we even jumped into this, I'm your premise, preface.

0:22:57.440 --> 0:22:59.240
<v Speaker 1>Excuse me this, Parson of the conversation, I say, like,

0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:02.680
<v Speaker 1>we're not We're not trying to judge, as I'm sure

0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:06.240
<v Speaker 1>some people will perceive this to be. Like, this isn't

0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:09.480
<v Speaker 1>about judgment. This is about people who are public figures

0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:10.000
<v Speaker 1>who put this.

0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:13.040
<v Speaker 2>They put this out publicly. This isn't gossip or slander.

0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:15.760
<v Speaker 2>This is something that they have turned into content. And

0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:18.359
<v Speaker 2>so when you turn it into content, I feel like

0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:19.239
<v Speaker 2>it's okay too.

0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:21.800
<v Speaker 1>And I genuinely wish them both the best. However, we

0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:25.040
<v Speaker 1>are going to just analyze this situation because it's it's

0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:29.399
<v Speaker 1>very complex and it ties it interfines into its faith,

0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:34.520
<v Speaker 1>religion specifically, and just what we perceive to be right

0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:36.320
<v Speaker 1>and wrong in a marriage.

0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:38.639
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and yeah, like you said, it goes into a

0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:44.320
<v Speaker 2>broader discussion of what modern churches or what modern Christianity

0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:48.040
<v Speaker 2>says versus what is actually biblically based. All right, I

0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:51.920
<v Speaker 2>think that's really important. So there is If you guys

0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:55.800
<v Speaker 2>remember the Douggers, I'm sure you did, there was another

0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:58.600
<v Speaker 2>family called the Baits and they had Bringing Up Baits

0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:01.040
<v Speaker 2>and it was the Dougger's best friends and they were

0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:06.160
<v Speaker 2>featured in one another's content and I was called Bringing

0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:09.400
<v Speaker 2>Up Baits and the Baits on the Dugger Show. They

0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:14.280
<v Speaker 2>wore the big dress. They dressed more prairie.

0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:15.240
<v Speaker 1>They had the look.

0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they had the look where the Douggers had kind

0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:20.240
<v Speaker 2>of moved past that. They still wore the skirts and everything,

0:24:20.280 --> 0:24:22.919
<v Speaker 2>but they didn't wear the homemade dresses and everything. And

0:24:22.960 --> 0:24:26.640
<v Speaker 2>the Baits still really look like they were definitely into

0:24:26.640 --> 0:24:29.480
<v Speaker 2>that cult still. I mean the Douggers were a cult

0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:30.200
<v Speaker 2>and everything too.

0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:33.000
<v Speaker 1>The Butunners, the Asners, but.

0:24:32.920 --> 0:24:35.080
<v Speaker 2>Well they're not bunners. Bunners are the ones that were their.

0:24:35.000 --> 0:24:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Hair and look that branch of Christianity.

0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:42.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, in Washington there's a religion where it's probably other

0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:45.480
<v Speaker 2>places too, but definitely in the Pacific Northwest, there was

0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:48.600
<v Speaker 2>this religion where they had a bunch of kids and

0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:50.760
<v Speaker 2>they all the women were regarded were their hair in

0:24:50.800 --> 0:24:53.639
<v Speaker 2>a bun and so everybody called them bunners. And so

0:24:53.800 --> 0:24:56.640
<v Speaker 2>these ones wear their hair big and puffy and curly

0:24:56.720 --> 0:25:00.480
<v Speaker 2>and the big prairie dresses. So anyway, that was the

0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:02.119
<v Speaker 2>Baits and bringing up bits that a lot of you

0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:04.560
<v Speaker 2>guys have probably watched the show or at least are

0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:07.760
<v Speaker 2>familiar with them. So now that the girls have gotten

0:25:07.800 --> 0:25:10.080
<v Speaker 2>older and the boys have gotten older, a lot of

0:25:10.080 --> 0:25:12.480
<v Speaker 2>them have left the religious cult that they were a

0:25:12.520 --> 0:25:17.040
<v Speaker 2>part of, and now they wear jeans and stretch pants

0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:20.200
<v Speaker 2>and woo, you know, they're yeah, they're being risky ladies

0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:25.680
<v Speaker 2>and their yoga pants. So Katie Baits was one of

0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:29.359
<v Speaker 2>the girls that had left, and then she married Travis Clark.

0:25:29.440 --> 0:25:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Travis Clark is kind of an up and coming or

0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:33.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know if he's up and coming. Maybe

0:25:33.320 --> 0:25:38.080
<v Speaker 2>he's just a small time Christian singer. And he was

0:25:38.119 --> 0:25:40.240
<v Speaker 2>featured a little bit on the show when they were recording,

0:25:40.720 --> 0:25:43.080
<v Speaker 2>and then they got married four years ago and they've

0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:47.359
<v Speaker 2>since had two children. So she blew up on Instagram

0:25:47.480 --> 0:25:50.880
<v Speaker 2>and they had a YouTube channel as well, making kind

0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:54.680
<v Speaker 2>of similar content to Ballerina Farm, but not not at

0:25:54.680 --> 0:26:01.520
<v Speaker 2>all in the same It wasn't as like Gee Home

0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:05.639
<v Speaker 2>Steady it wasn't home steady at all. She's she lives,

0:26:05.880 --> 0:26:08.359
<v Speaker 2>she dresses nice, and she's into fancy hair and makeup

0:26:08.400 --> 0:26:11.240
<v Speaker 2>and all of that. And it's not the hair, yeah,

0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:15.960
<v Speaker 2>for sure, she's it's a different aesthetic, but it's still

0:26:16.000 --> 0:26:19.280
<v Speaker 2>like that that mom kids. This is how we do

0:26:19.320 --> 0:26:22.240
<v Speaker 2>at birthday parties? Is that kind of stuff. So anyway,

0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:25.040
<v Speaker 2>Travis and her would always make these reels back and

0:26:25.080 --> 0:26:27.480
<v Speaker 2>forth of how much they appreciated one another, what a

0:26:27.480 --> 0:26:30.560
<v Speaker 2>wonderful husband he is. She just posted a reel a

0:26:30.560 --> 0:26:33.080
<v Speaker 2>couple months ago saying I'm rich because he's the father

0:26:33.160 --> 0:26:36.760
<v Speaker 2>of my children, and then shows him playing with their kids.

0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:40.600
<v Speaker 2>Back in December was their four year anniversary, and he

0:26:40.840 --> 0:26:44.400
<v Speaker 2>had this whole reel where he put together these roses

0:26:44.440 --> 0:26:47.200
<v Speaker 2>and blew up balloons and everything to surprise her on

0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:49.960
<v Speaker 2>their four year anniversary. And I watched it and I

0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:52.439
<v Speaker 2>got kind of an ick from it because it was

0:26:52.600 --> 0:26:56.600
<v Speaker 2>so performative. It was way more. It didn't come across

0:26:56.680 --> 0:26:57.960
<v Speaker 2>as authentic.

0:26:57.480 --> 0:26:58.920
<v Speaker 1>At all, welcome to social media.

0:26:59.040 --> 0:27:01.520
<v Speaker 2>It came across as so performative, like, look at what

0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:05.600
<v Speaker 2>a wonderful husband I was. And so often when somebody

0:27:05.680 --> 0:27:09.280
<v Speaker 2>feels the need to show how wonderful of a husband

0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:11.119
<v Speaker 2>they are, or how wonderful of a father.

0:27:11.240 --> 0:27:13.400
<v Speaker 1>They are over compensating.

0:27:13.480 --> 0:27:17.239
<v Speaker 2>They're overcompensating for something. So for some reason, Travis has

0:27:17.240 --> 0:27:21.479
<v Speaker 2>always given me like, eh, I just he comes across

0:27:21.480 --> 0:27:26.280
<v Speaker 2>as a like a Hillsong mega church Christian that maybe

0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:29.200
<v Speaker 2>is not so biblically based and more performative and more

0:27:31.040 --> 0:27:33.919
<v Speaker 2>you know. I don't know, there's just there's a type

0:27:34.359 --> 0:27:38.760
<v Speaker 2>I know where I don't quite believe it. And so anyway,

0:27:38.880 --> 0:27:42.800
<v Speaker 2>turns out she got pregnant with their third child, and

0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:46.000
<v Speaker 2>they announced the pregnancy and all of that, and then

0:27:46.240 --> 0:27:49.479
<v Speaker 2>she announces that she has miscarried and lost the baby

0:27:49.560 --> 0:27:54.760
<v Speaker 2>in January. The very next day, he announces on his

0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:56.439
<v Speaker 2>social media that he had an affair.

0:27:57.359 --> 0:27:59.640
<v Speaker 1>Well, hold on, before we can get to that point,

0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:02.040
<v Speaker 1>didn't he put out some kind of a video notification

0:28:02.200 --> 0:28:03.800
<v Speaker 1>that they were going to stop.

0:28:04.119 --> 0:28:06.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I showed you that. It was right before

0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:09.400
<v Speaker 2>we left for Hawaii. They put out a video saying,

0:28:09.400 --> 0:28:12.840
<v Speaker 2>this is our last video ever, not clickbait.

0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:15.200
<v Speaker 1>We're quitting the channel. We're going with this, And I've watched.

0:28:15.040 --> 0:28:16.560
<v Speaker 2>Quite a few of her things, so I clicked on it.

0:28:16.680 --> 0:28:19.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm like not a very detailed explanation. From what I remember,

0:28:19.440 --> 0:28:22.000
<v Speaker 1>it's just thank you for being here. We're good, We're

0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:24.080
<v Speaker 1>done with this for now, we're going to focus on family.

0:28:24.200 --> 0:28:27.040
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was weird because she worked so hard

0:28:27.119 --> 0:28:29.399
<v Speaker 2>to build her Instagram and her TikTok and her YouTube,

0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:31.800
<v Speaker 2>and the YouTube was really just starting to take off,

0:28:32.359 --> 0:28:33.760
<v Speaker 2>and all of a sudden, they're just.

0:28:33.720 --> 0:28:34.760
<v Speaker 1>Out, doesn't that up?

0:28:35.400 --> 0:28:38.800
<v Speaker 2>And they said that it was because he was doing

0:28:38.880 --> 0:28:41.280
<v Speaker 2>nursing school and it was just too much to balance.

0:28:42.520 --> 0:28:44.800
<v Speaker 2>But it still it didn't pass the smell test for me.

0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:48.360
<v Speaker 2>But she looked happy and fine and whatever. And I

0:28:48.400 --> 0:28:51.120
<v Speaker 2>don't think when they did the video that she was

0:28:51.160 --> 0:28:54.320
<v Speaker 2>aware that he was having an affair and he wanted

0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:56.920
<v Speaker 2>to end the channel. This is just my assumption, but

0:28:57.000 --> 0:29:00.280
<v Speaker 2>he wanted to end the channel in preparation for confessing

0:29:00.360 --> 0:29:01.120
<v Speaker 2>that he was having.

0:29:00.880 --> 0:29:03.560
<v Speaker 1>To creatively put an end to everything, knowing that there

0:29:03.600 --> 0:29:05.720
<v Speaker 1>was some heavy criticism that was about to come his way.

0:29:05.760 --> 0:29:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Right, and that they wouldn't be able to balance everything.

0:29:08.160 --> 0:29:09.560
<v Speaker 1>So how does all of this come to light?

0:29:10.080 --> 0:29:12.800
<v Speaker 2>So it all comes to light the day after she

0:29:12.880 --> 0:29:16.120
<v Speaker 2>has this the next day, the next day, which further

0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:19.680
<v Speaker 2>tells me he was either being blackmailed by the other girl,

0:29:20.280 --> 0:29:24.240
<v Speaker 2>or something happened during the miscarriage that brought it to light.

0:29:24.840 --> 0:29:27.600
<v Speaker 2>Some people were saying that, I don't know, I don't

0:29:27.600 --> 0:29:30.600
<v Speaker 2>want to spread rumors, but this was a speculator that

0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:34.320
<v Speaker 2>something had come to light that maybe either caused a miscarriage,

0:29:34.560 --> 0:29:39.040
<v Speaker 2>or during the miscarriage, the doctor maybe noticed something that

0:29:39.320 --> 0:29:43.120
<v Speaker 2>brought to light, like possibly with like an STD or

0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:45.880
<v Speaker 2>something like that that brought to light that he was

0:29:45.880 --> 0:29:49.360
<v Speaker 2>having an affair. This is all total speculation. May not

0:29:49.480 --> 0:29:52.960
<v Speaker 2>be the case. Maybe the girlfriends like tell her that's

0:29:53.240 --> 0:29:57.880
<v Speaker 2>a private matter. Yeah, so something happened that made him

0:29:58.400 --> 0:30:04.080
<v Speaker 2>confess publicly on Instagram via an Instagram story to the

0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:07.680
<v Speaker 2>world that he had cheated on her multiple times.

0:30:09.000 --> 0:30:11.120
<v Speaker 1>It's it's deeper than that. Even so, you said that

0:30:11.160 --> 0:30:14.800
<v Speaker 1>she she was putting out posts, but the fact that

0:30:14.800 --> 0:30:16.640
<v Speaker 1>he was working so hard and that she was so

0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:19.760
<v Speaker 1>appreciative to him because the nursing school was taking such

0:30:19.760 --> 0:30:22.120
<v Speaker 1>a toll that there were times where he had to

0:30:22.160 --> 0:30:26.000
<v Speaker 1>spend the night the night out of their home. And

0:30:26.040 --> 0:30:28.239
<v Speaker 1>it turns out that I mean common sense toopeless too.

0:30:28.400 --> 0:30:31.239
<v Speaker 1>You know, I think the any logical finding would be

0:30:31.280 --> 0:30:34.520
<v Speaker 1>that he wasn't going home because he was cheating on her. Yeah.

0:30:34.680 --> 0:30:37.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So she put out a reel that she was

0:30:37.440 --> 0:30:40.040
<v Speaker 2>making a miss favorite dinner because he was a nursing

0:30:40.080 --> 0:30:43.000
<v Speaker 2>school and he was working so hard. So she put

0:30:43.040 --> 0:30:45.960
<v Speaker 2>together this whole dinner and she made the house of

0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:48.280
<v Speaker 2>all cute and clean, and got the kids all dressed up,

0:30:48.320 --> 0:30:50.800
<v Speaker 2>and they were all excited because Daddy was coming home

0:30:50.840 --> 0:30:52.720
<v Speaker 2>that night. And she said, he's been working so hard

0:30:53.160 --> 0:30:55.760
<v Speaker 2>that he's been staying out really late at night, and

0:30:55.840 --> 0:30:58.600
<v Speaker 2>some nights he doesn't even come home so he doesn't

0:30:58.640 --> 0:31:01.440
<v Speaker 2>disturb us, working so hard, and we're so proud of

0:31:01.520 --> 0:31:03.640
<v Speaker 2>him and we love him so much. Really, he was

0:31:03.720 --> 0:31:06.520
<v Speaker 2>out there having an affair with I wonder what that.

0:31:06.520 --> 0:31:07.360
<v Speaker 1>Did to him in a moment.

0:31:09.080 --> 0:31:09.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

0:31:10.680 --> 0:31:12.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it didn't bring him back home.

0:31:12.440 --> 0:31:15.040
<v Speaker 2>It didn't bring him back home because that was posted

0:31:15.320 --> 0:31:17.200
<v Speaker 2>a month before he ended the affair.

0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:20.560
<v Speaker 1>So okay, now, the subsequent fallout is a part of

0:31:20.600 --> 0:31:23.360
<v Speaker 1>this that you and I find absolutely crazy, And I'd

0:31:23.440 --> 0:31:24.920
<v Speaker 1>love to hear everyone's take out there are we the

0:31:24.960 --> 0:31:28.440
<v Speaker 1>ones that are being unreasonable because the people chiming in

0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:30.680
<v Speaker 1>to the both of them.

0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:32.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, okay, so to back it up a little bit,

0:31:33.080 --> 0:31:36.040
<v Speaker 2>he said that he publicly wanted to confess because he

0:31:36.080 --> 0:31:38.200
<v Speaker 2>felt like he needed that shame and everything to come

0:31:38.240 --> 0:31:41.200
<v Speaker 2>on him. But me as a woman, looks at a

0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:48.440
<v Speaker 2>public confession as a humiliation for her. If if you,

0:31:49.880 --> 0:31:51.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't even want to use you as an example. Okay,

0:31:52.120 --> 0:31:54.800
<v Speaker 2>if a husband goes publicly and says I had an

0:31:54.840 --> 0:31:59.240
<v Speaker 2>affair multiple times and I'm humiliated and I cheated on

0:31:59.280 --> 0:32:02.000
<v Speaker 2>my wife and all this stuff publicly on social media,

0:32:02.040 --> 0:32:05.960
<v Speaker 2>that embarrasses your wife further, the proper way of handling

0:32:06.000 --> 0:32:09.360
<v Speaker 2>that would be to shut down both accounts temporarily and

0:32:09.400 --> 0:32:11.920
<v Speaker 2>deal with your marriage. Deal with your marriage. You don't

0:32:12.080 --> 0:32:16.640
<v Speaker 2>owe the public and explanation of what was going on.

0:32:16.760 --> 0:32:18.080
<v Speaker 1>And so this is one of my questions to you,

0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:21.560
<v Speaker 1>is that has he now spun this into content?

0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:25.600
<v Speaker 2>He is fun into content. But she kind of has to.

0:32:25.720 --> 0:32:27.560
<v Speaker 2>But I think she kind of is a force to

0:32:28.120 --> 0:32:31.440
<v Speaker 2>because she has to address she's being reactive. So I

0:32:31.440 --> 0:32:34.040
<v Speaker 2>don't blame her at all. And she's trying to go

0:32:34.080 --> 0:32:35.960
<v Speaker 2>to therapy and she's trying to do all these things.

0:32:35.960 --> 0:32:38.600
<v Speaker 2>She's still posting reels. This is how she makes a living.

0:32:39.360 --> 0:32:42.080
<v Speaker 2>And whether or not. He's still living in the home.

0:32:42.160 --> 0:32:44.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. She's not showing him on the content,

0:32:44.560 --> 0:32:47.160
<v Speaker 2>but it sounds like they're trying to work their marriage out,

0:32:47.560 --> 0:32:50.320
<v Speaker 2>which I don't criticize. It's her decision.

0:32:50.400 --> 0:32:55.040
<v Speaker 1>Again, this is her decision to make everybody else. It's

0:32:55.120 --> 0:32:57.800
<v Speaker 1>unfortunate to me that this has gone and become public

0:32:57.840 --> 0:33:00.360
<v Speaker 1>because it's completely unnecessary and it's going to do nothing

0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:03.320
<v Speaker 1>but cause additional harm.

0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Right, I personally think Travis Clark's a little weasel. He

0:33:06.720 --> 0:33:09.480
<v Speaker 2>cheated on a beautiful wife after four years. You couldn't

0:33:09.520 --> 0:33:12.280
<v Speaker 2>keep together for four years? Like, what is wrong with you?

0:33:12.280 --> 0:33:15.040
<v Speaker 2>You're coming home to this beautiful wife, you have two

0:33:15.440 --> 0:33:19.040
<v Speaker 2>gorgeous children, the woman's pregnant with baby number three, and

0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:23.640
<v Speaker 2>you're out there skirting around with somebody from your class.

0:33:23.640 --> 0:33:25.680
<v Speaker 2>Apparently it was somebody that he was a nursing school

0:33:25.680 --> 0:33:29.240
<v Speaker 2>with who had been to their home multiple times. As

0:33:29.520 --> 0:33:31.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, this is my friend and my classmate, and

0:33:31.680 --> 0:33:34.040
<v Speaker 2>they had a Christmas party that apparently this woman attended

0:33:34.480 --> 0:33:38.120
<v Speaker 2>on Earth. So I mean, just ultimate betrayal. You're gonna

0:33:38.120 --> 0:33:40.320
<v Speaker 2>have the girlfriend and the life in the same place.

0:33:40.080 --> 0:33:43.280
<v Speaker 1>And it turns out that he is the hero and

0:33:43.320 --> 0:33:45.080
<v Speaker 1>she is the villain it.

0:33:45.040 --> 0:33:48.480
<v Speaker 2>Appears that way, or at least she can come out

0:33:48.560 --> 0:33:51.240
<v Speaker 2>the hero as long as she does what she's supposed

0:33:51.240 --> 0:33:54.800
<v Speaker 2>to do, which is to forgive, forget, to move on,

0:33:55.800 --> 0:34:00.320
<v Speaker 2>and this man gets to just be redeemed. And when

0:34:00.480 --> 0:34:06.560
<v Speaker 2>I read the comments, I go crazy because it's not hey,

0:34:07.520 --> 0:34:10.200
<v Speaker 2>this you know, Hey Katie, this is your decision. I

0:34:10.239 --> 0:34:12.000
<v Speaker 2>hope that you do what's right for you. There are

0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:13.960
<v Speaker 2>a few people saying I hope you do what's right

0:34:14.000 --> 0:34:15.680
<v Speaker 2>for you, but those people are being attacked.

0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:16.560
<v Speaker 1>They're in the minor right now.

0:34:16.600 --> 0:34:19.440
<v Speaker 2>If Katie wants to forgive Travis, that is one hundred

0:34:19.480 --> 0:34:23.200
<v Speaker 2>percent her decision and God will honor that. And I

0:34:23.239 --> 0:34:26.560
<v Speaker 2>hope that their marriage can recover and all of that,

0:34:26.640 --> 0:34:28.680
<v Speaker 2>especially because the children seem to adore him.

0:34:28.840 --> 0:34:31.120
<v Speaker 1>You mentioned it. The religious components of this is what

0:34:31.200 --> 0:34:33.480
<v Speaker 1>makes it really interesting. And part of the reason how

0:34:33.480 --> 0:34:38.040
<v Speaker 1>we struggle so much with church teachings is because this

0:34:38.080 --> 0:34:40.439
<v Speaker 1>seems very cut and dry to me. Yeah, she has

0:34:40.680 --> 0:34:42.239
<v Speaker 1>like this is her prerogative. She can do whatever it

0:34:42.239 --> 0:34:44.080
<v Speaker 1>is that she wants. If she decides to leave the

0:34:44.080 --> 0:34:46.799
<v Speaker 1>marriage and relationship, so be it. It's on him. She

0:34:46.880 --> 0:34:51.080
<v Speaker 1>did nothing again, she's she's acting in response to what

0:34:51.120 --> 0:34:54.240
<v Speaker 1>it is that he did. It's this is just crazy

0:34:54.239 --> 0:34:57.560
<v Speaker 1>to me. Read some of these comments on your phone there.

0:34:58.640 --> 0:35:02.799
<v Speaker 2>So the part that bother me is, and I've heard

0:35:02.800 --> 0:35:05.560
<v Speaker 2>this in churches that I've attended and in youth groups

0:35:05.560 --> 0:35:07.200
<v Speaker 2>that our kids have gone to, where they've come back

0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:11.520
<v Speaker 2>and asked us like, hey, words, if your husband cheats

0:35:11.520 --> 0:35:14.520
<v Speaker 2>on you, you cannot leave them. You must forgive them. The

0:35:14.600 --> 0:35:18.600
<v Speaker 2>only recourse is to pray for them and to remain

0:35:18.680 --> 0:35:22.840
<v Speaker 2>faithful and to continue honoring your husband. And that really

0:35:23.040 --> 0:35:27.240
<v Speaker 2>annoys me because it's not biblically based. This is something

0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:31.239
<v Speaker 2>that religion and modern Christianity and a lot of not

0:35:31.280 --> 0:35:33.439
<v Speaker 2>all churches, but a lot of churches say, but it's

0:35:33.440 --> 0:35:38.680
<v Speaker 2>not biblically based because in the Bible it says in Matthew.

0:35:38.880 --> 0:35:43.160
<v Speaker 2>I think Matthew nine literally explains that if you get

0:35:43.160 --> 0:35:47.440
<v Speaker 2>divorced for no cause and you or you know, the

0:35:47.480 --> 0:35:49.520
<v Speaker 2>guy's not fulfilling you or the girl's not fulfilling you,

0:35:49.560 --> 0:35:53.640
<v Speaker 2>you're not communicating, or whatever, then you remarry that you

0:35:53.680 --> 0:35:56.359
<v Speaker 2>are then committing adultery because you're still married. In the

0:35:56.360 --> 0:36:00.799
<v Speaker 2>eyes of God. There's one covenant, right and though there's

0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:03.840
<v Speaker 2>two exceptions. One is if you marry a non believer,

0:36:03.880 --> 0:36:06.800
<v Speaker 2>in the non believer leaves, the believer is not supposed

0:36:06.800 --> 0:36:09.040
<v Speaker 2>to leave the non believer because you're still in this

0:36:09.120 --> 0:36:12.919
<v Speaker 2>marriage covenant. But if the non believer leaves, then Paul

0:36:13.000 --> 0:36:15.960
<v Speaker 2>tells us let it be, and God wants peace for you.

0:36:16.600 --> 0:36:20.200
<v Speaker 2>And that's all in First Corinthians. Now in Mackie is

0:36:21.560 --> 0:36:27.600
<v Speaker 2>in the case of adultery, if one person commits physical adultery,

0:36:28.080 --> 0:36:30.440
<v Speaker 2>and that's I mean, I don't think that necessarily, like

0:36:30.600 --> 0:36:32.840
<v Speaker 2>you could go like, oh, there's been emotional adultery and

0:36:32.880 --> 0:36:34.680
<v Speaker 2>things like that. I don't know about all that. The

0:36:34.680 --> 0:36:39.040
<v Speaker 2>physical adultery. The marriage covenant has been broken. Now, that

0:36:39.120 --> 0:36:40.960
<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean that you have to get divorced and that

0:36:41.000 --> 0:36:46.440
<v Speaker 2>you're no longer married, but you are allowed to get divorced,

0:36:47.040 --> 0:36:49.080
<v Speaker 2>and then in that case you are also allowed to

0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:52.439
<v Speaker 2>get remarried. And it's not considered adultery according to God.

0:36:52.480 --> 0:36:54.879
<v Speaker 2>I mean, when you look at the nature of God, yes,

0:36:54.920 --> 0:36:59.640
<v Speaker 2>he is forgiving and he does offer grace. However, God

0:36:59.680 --> 0:37:03.120
<v Speaker 2>is all so a jealous Scott God also is I

0:37:03.120 --> 0:37:07.600
<v Speaker 2>mean he created marriage as a model of the way

0:37:07.640 --> 0:37:10.719
<v Speaker 2>that Christ loves the church, and you're not to go

0:37:10.840 --> 0:37:12.879
<v Speaker 2>out and have a bunch of other gods. You're only

0:37:12.920 --> 0:37:15.280
<v Speaker 2>to have one god. You're only to have one husband

0:37:15.280 --> 0:37:18.600
<v Speaker 2>and one wife. And if you commit adultery on that person,

0:37:18.640 --> 0:37:22.960
<v Speaker 2>they are allowed biblically to file for divorce and leave.

0:37:23.000 --> 0:37:27.040
<v Speaker 2>They are not forced to stay in the marriage.

0:37:27.360 --> 0:37:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Not the response and reaction as she's getting.

0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:31.960
<v Speaker 2>It, but not the response and reaction that she's getting such.

0:37:31.800 --> 0:37:34.040
<v Speaker 1>Is one thing. The part that bothers me even more, again,

0:37:34.239 --> 0:37:37.239
<v Speaker 1>if you can pull those comments, is just the fact.

0:37:37.040 --> 0:37:39.839
<v Speaker 2>That the way that he's being celebrated.

0:37:39.320 --> 0:37:46.279
<v Speaker 1>This is but the manipulation that he's carrying out flat out.

0:37:46.280 --> 0:37:47.799
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how else to phrase it. It's just

0:37:47.880 --> 0:37:51.200
<v Speaker 1>straight up emotional and mental manipulation. The things that he's

0:37:51.239 --> 0:37:54.640
<v Speaker 1>doing are like this guy does. If this is my daughter,

0:37:55.239 --> 0:37:58.680
<v Speaker 1>I cannot imagine what my reaction would be. I would

0:37:58.760 --> 0:38:01.040
<v Speaker 1>lose it on his Yeah sorry, dude.

0:38:01.320 --> 0:38:05.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So his very last post, he's sitting in the grass.

0:38:05.880 --> 0:38:08.600
<v Speaker 2>He has arranged pictures in a very performative way. Their

0:38:08.640 --> 0:38:11.880
<v Speaker 2>wedding picture, picture of the children, He's holding a picture

0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:14.520
<v Speaker 2>of him and her, and he has a new tattoo

0:38:14.560 --> 0:38:19.760
<v Speaker 2>on his risk Katie, so so much pressure on Katie.

0:38:19.880 --> 0:38:21.800
<v Speaker 2>She's trying to make a decision. Do I want to

0:38:21.840 --> 0:38:24.919
<v Speaker 2>forgive this man? Do I want to you know? She said,

0:38:24.920 --> 0:38:27.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to make a choice what's best for me

0:38:27.560 --> 0:38:28.600
<v Speaker 2>and the children. You know.

0:38:28.680 --> 0:38:31.120
<v Speaker 1>My response to that would have been, hey, homeboy, you

0:38:31.320 --> 0:38:34.440
<v Speaker 1>certainly didn't have this photo montage in mind when you

0:38:34.480 --> 0:38:36.719
<v Speaker 1>were spending the night at somebody else's house, right, maybe

0:38:36.719 --> 0:38:40.120
<v Speaker 1>you should have because the betrayal in this case, it's

0:38:40.160 --> 0:38:44.040
<v Speaker 1>not just her, it is their entire family. Can do

0:38:44.120 --> 0:38:48.480
<v Speaker 1>this just to your wife, you betrayed your children, your family.

0:38:49.239 --> 0:38:51.600
<v Speaker 1>It's it's like, oh, it gets me so fired.

0:38:51.719 --> 0:38:54.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm really this Kim tattooing Katie on his wrist, to

0:38:55.000 --> 0:39:01.640
<v Speaker 2>me was the ultimate form of manipulation, of mental manipulation,

0:39:01.760 --> 0:39:04.279
<v Speaker 2>because he's like, look at how serious I am. I

0:39:04.320 --> 0:39:09.520
<v Speaker 2>have permanently put your name on my wrisk and so yeah.

0:39:09.560 --> 0:39:14.439
<v Speaker 2>And so for her, she's going to, whether people think

0:39:14.480 --> 0:39:17.480
<v Speaker 2>so or not, she's going to feel added pressure to

0:39:17.640 --> 0:39:22.040
<v Speaker 2>forgive this man because he's publicly making this beautiful post

0:39:22.080 --> 0:39:25.080
<v Speaker 2>of their wedding picture and with the caption I've been

0:39:25.120 --> 0:39:27.600
<v Speaker 2>sitting in what I did for a couple of months now,

0:39:27.800 --> 0:39:30.239
<v Speaker 2>and I feel so much inside, but it's hard to

0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:32.600
<v Speaker 2>find the right words. At the end of last year,

0:39:32.640 --> 0:39:35.799
<v Speaker 2>I made decisions that I deeply regret, and I'm disappointed

0:39:35.840 --> 0:39:41.800
<v Speaker 2>on where to go of I'm disappointed, ashamed, honestly humbled,

0:39:41.840 --> 0:39:44.600
<v Speaker 2>a lot of hard work, therapy, time with God, blah

0:39:44.600 --> 0:39:48.160
<v Speaker 2>blah blah. Okay, So that's all I would read it.

0:39:50.520 --> 0:39:55.200
<v Speaker 2>When you make public statements like this, you're garnering support

0:39:55.320 --> 0:40:01.719
<v Speaker 2>for yourself hard he's working, he has asked for forgiveness

0:40:01.719 --> 0:40:05.680
<v Speaker 2>from you and from God, and he's sorry. So now,

0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:09.000
<v Speaker 2>if she makes the decision, which I don't think she will,

0:40:09.360 --> 0:40:11.720
<v Speaker 2>but if she makes the decision to get a divorce

0:40:11.760 --> 0:40:13.879
<v Speaker 2>and to move on with her life because she's young

0:40:14.280 --> 0:40:16.440
<v Speaker 2>and there was betrayal and she doesn't think she can

0:40:16.480 --> 0:40:19.680
<v Speaker 2>move past it, which she is not biblically bound to do,

0:40:21.120 --> 0:40:23.240
<v Speaker 2>she will come out the villain in the situation because

0:40:23.280 --> 0:40:26.080
<v Speaker 2>look at how sorry he was. She tattooed your name.

0:40:26.520 --> 0:40:29.640
<v Speaker 2>He's sorry. He's sitting there with his white sneakers and

0:40:29.719 --> 0:40:32.960
<v Speaker 2>your wedding pictures and he's really sorry, and you couldn't

0:40:32.960 --> 0:40:33.520
<v Speaker 2>forgive him.

0:40:33.560 --> 0:40:34.480
<v Speaker 1>You didn't care at the time.

0:40:34.560 --> 0:40:36.880
<v Speaker 2>Did you write and so the comments are, you know,

0:40:36.960 --> 0:40:40.040
<v Speaker 2>God offers grace and she needs to offer grace. They're

0:40:40.040 --> 0:40:44.719
<v Speaker 2>confusing Katie with Jesus. Jesus offers grace, and yes, we

0:40:44.760 --> 0:40:49.080
<v Speaker 2>are to forgive, but that doesn't mean you can forgive somebody.

0:40:49.120 --> 0:40:50.919
<v Speaker 2>But that doesn't mean that you need to take him back.

0:40:51.320 --> 0:40:55.360
<v Speaker 2>You can forgive things in your life that hurt you

0:40:55.640 --> 0:40:58.160
<v Speaker 2>from people who hurt you, but that doesn't mean that

0:40:58.200 --> 0:41:00.440
<v Speaker 2>you need to continue on with the relationlationship.

0:41:00.560 --> 0:41:03.080
<v Speaker 1>And like you pointed out, that forgiveness is not for

0:41:03.160 --> 0:41:06.759
<v Speaker 1>the sake of the person that hurt you. Offering that

0:41:06.840 --> 0:41:09.760
<v Speaker 1>forgiveness is for you to find peace.

0:41:09.960 --> 0:41:13.120
<v Speaker 2>Yes, now, again, the decision is Katie's and Katie's alone.

0:41:13.840 --> 0:41:17.759
<v Speaker 2>That the internet is chiming in by the tens of thousands,

0:41:18.000 --> 0:41:18.840
<v Speaker 2>tens of.

0:41:18.760 --> 0:41:21.840
<v Speaker 1>Thousands examples because nuts.

0:41:21.800 --> 0:41:25.640
<v Speaker 2>So on his post, there's so many. I'm so proud

0:41:25.680 --> 0:41:29.839
<v Speaker 2>of you, guys. I fully proud of you. Brother with

0:41:30.080 --> 0:41:34.919
<v Speaker 2>you know sunset, hard hands, walk in obedience. No matter

0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:37.520
<v Speaker 2>the situation it turns, you will know you'll be honored

0:41:37.560 --> 0:41:42.400
<v Speaker 2>through God praying for you, bro. One person wrote, run Katie, run,

0:41:42.760 --> 0:41:45.319
<v Speaker 2>and then people just jumped on that person. How dare you?

0:41:45.960 --> 0:41:49.280
<v Speaker 2>And then somebody else wrote the only way through is through,

0:41:49.360 --> 0:41:52.600
<v Speaker 2>and then somebody else responded, no, sometimes the way through

0:41:52.719 --> 0:41:55.320
<v Speaker 2>is out, and then people jumped on that person. Nope,

0:41:55.480 --> 0:41:57.040
<v Speaker 2>you obviously don't know your Bible.

0:41:57.560 --> 0:41:58.279
<v Speaker 1>What is going on.

0:41:59.280 --> 0:42:02.360
<v Speaker 2>It's it's it's not biblically based to force a woman

0:42:02.400 --> 0:42:04.320
<v Speaker 2>to stay in a marriage after adultery.

0:42:04.520 --> 0:42:06.280
<v Speaker 1>Conversely, what are her comments?

0:42:06.440 --> 0:42:10.560
<v Speaker 2>So her comments are way more critical than his comments.

0:42:10.840 --> 0:42:12.920
<v Speaker 2>So she's going on a four day retreat for her

0:42:12.960 --> 0:42:16.040
<v Speaker 2>mental health. So this woman is clearly tortured right now,

0:42:16.360 --> 0:42:19.400
<v Speaker 2>trying to make it. Yeah, exactly, all of this is

0:42:19.440 --> 0:42:23.080
<v Speaker 2>playing out in public. You're humiliated, You have all this pressure,

0:42:23.440 --> 0:42:26.560
<v Speaker 2>you have people telling you that the only Biblical way,

0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:30.000
<v Speaker 2>the only Christian way of dealing with this, is to

0:42:30.080 --> 0:42:34.000
<v Speaker 2>forgive this man. Basically, you have to or you're not

0:42:34.040 --> 0:42:36.080
<v Speaker 2>a good Christian. You're not a good wife, you're not

0:42:36.120 --> 0:42:38.880
<v Speaker 2>a good mother. Why don't do this to your children

0:42:38.960 --> 0:42:39.520
<v Speaker 2>kind of comments?

0:42:39.520 --> 0:42:40.839
<v Speaker 1>How was that the Christian thing to do?

0:42:40.960 --> 0:42:43.480
<v Speaker 2>She's being criticized for going on a retreat, and then

0:42:43.560 --> 0:42:46.400
<v Speaker 2>she's packing her clothes, she's showing a packing thing. I

0:42:46.400 --> 0:42:48.279
<v Speaker 2>think it was an integration or something like that, a

0:42:48.320 --> 0:42:51.520
<v Speaker 2>brand integration. And then she's like, I'm going to pack

0:42:51.560 --> 0:42:53.680
<v Speaker 2>this clothes because there's some yoga at the retreat. There's

0:42:53.719 --> 0:42:57.480
<v Speaker 2>also equine therapy, so there's horse riding and there's some

0:42:57.560 --> 0:43:00.720
<v Speaker 2>yoga like stretching. People jumped on her for the yoga,

0:43:00.840 --> 0:43:05.520
<v Speaker 2>telling her that if you participate in yoga, that is

0:43:05.560 --> 0:43:07.560
<v Speaker 2>demonic and that's probably why you did it.

0:43:07.640 --> 0:43:09.200
<v Speaker 1>But cheating, she's.

0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:13.040
<v Speaker 2>Demonic, so that's probably why he cheated on her. And so, Katie,

0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:15.360
<v Speaker 2>I understand what you're doing here, but the fact that

0:43:15.400 --> 0:43:18.440
<v Speaker 2>you're doing yoga. They're criticizing this woman because she mentioned

0:43:18.440 --> 0:43:21.600
<v Speaker 2>there's yoga. There's a therapy resort that she's now forced.

0:43:22.360 --> 0:43:23.680
<v Speaker 1>You told me. There were people that are like, why

0:43:23.680 --> 0:43:24.960
<v Speaker 1>aren't you taking your husband with you?

0:43:26.080 --> 0:43:26.520
<v Speaker 2>Is yours?

0:43:27.200 --> 0:43:29.560
<v Speaker 4>You need to bring your husband, the person causing you

0:43:29.600 --> 0:43:31.640
<v Speaker 4>the mental anguish that is causing that is leading to

0:43:31.680 --> 0:43:35.080
<v Speaker 4>you feeling it necessary to go on some kind of retreat.

0:43:36.360 --> 0:43:36.520
<v Speaker 1>With you.

0:43:36.760 --> 0:43:39.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, how dares she go and try to figure out

0:43:39.280 --> 0:43:41.880
<v Speaker 2>her own mental state and what she needs in her life.

0:43:42.480 --> 0:43:45.439
<v Speaker 2>She should be taking her husband, You should be chaperoning her.

0:43:45.320 --> 0:43:47.120
<v Speaker 1>To this again, It makes total sense.

0:43:47.200 --> 0:43:50.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I just feel really bad for her because

0:43:51.120 --> 0:43:54.280
<v Speaker 2>she's not truly making a choice for herself. I would

0:43:54.280 --> 0:43:56.920
<v Speaker 2>have loved to see them both step away from social media,

0:43:57.400 --> 0:43:59.440
<v Speaker 2>not post the public affair if it came out in

0:43:59.480 --> 0:44:01.880
<v Speaker 2>the news, on in them news. Guess what, We're not

0:44:01.960 --> 0:44:05.600
<v Speaker 2>answering our phone. We're not reading dms, we're not reading comments.

0:44:05.880 --> 0:44:09.080
<v Speaker 2>We're dealing with this in house, privately, so that I

0:44:09.120 --> 0:44:11.760
<v Speaker 2>can make an informed decision for me and my children.

0:44:11.840 --> 0:44:13.680
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0:45:23.560 --> 0:45:26.160
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0:45:26.200 --> 0:45:28.440
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0:45:28.480 --> 0:45:29.000
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0:45:29.160 --> 0:45:31.520
<v Speaker 2>Now, many of us have unfortunately seen the results of

0:45:31.560 --> 0:45:35.160
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0:45:35.160 --> 0:45:38.040
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0:45:38.080 --> 0:45:39.960
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0:45:39.960 --> 0:45:41.520
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0:45:43.680 --> 0:45:46.960
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0:45:47.120 --> 0:45:49.880
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0:45:49.880 --> 0:45:51.240
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0:45:51.320 --> 0:45:54.080
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0:45:54.080 --> 0:45:55.800
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0:45:55.920 --> 0:45:58.759
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0:45:58.800 --> 0:46:01.560
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0:46:01.640 --> 0:46:03.400
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0:46:06.040 --> 0:46:08.360
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0:46:08.400 --> 0:46:10.319
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0:46:10.360 --> 0:46:12.799
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0:46:12.880 --> 0:46:15.839
<v Speaker 1>That's trust and Will dot com slash New World. I

0:46:15.880 --> 0:46:17.600
<v Speaker 1>totally agree with you. I don't like that it like

0:46:17.640 --> 0:46:20.800
<v Speaker 1>stuff like this just becomes fodder for the viewing public.

0:46:20.880 --> 0:46:23.919
<v Speaker 1>Like it's it's nobody else's business in the house. Don't

0:46:23.920 --> 0:46:26.480
<v Speaker 1>float this out there. You don't you owe nobody an explanation.

0:46:26.560 --> 0:46:29.600
<v Speaker 1>You don't have to make some public announcement. It's it's

0:46:29.680 --> 0:46:31.560
<v Speaker 1>just it's a fine example of one of the many

0:46:31.560 --> 0:46:34.720
<v Speaker 1>things that bothers me so much about integrating, like family

0:46:35.600 --> 0:46:36.360
<v Speaker 1>families period.

0:46:36.440 --> 0:46:39.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a hard decision. I hard decision if you

0:46:39.760 --> 0:46:41.719
<v Speaker 2>didn't have children, it's not a hard decision at all.

0:46:41.760 --> 0:46:44.080
<v Speaker 2>Out all your young and beautiful.

0:46:43.920 --> 0:46:45.799
<v Speaker 1>She knew whatever she wants. Like we said before, it's

0:46:45.800 --> 0:46:49.240
<v Speaker 1>her decision to make. It's incredibly unfortunate that it happened

0:46:49.239 --> 0:46:53.200
<v Speaker 1>to begin with, but now taking like this entire situation

0:46:53.280 --> 0:46:56.200
<v Speaker 1>and making her twice the victim by with like using

0:46:56.239 --> 0:47:01.080
<v Speaker 1>social media to garner leverage actual little notice the case

0:47:01.120 --> 0:47:03.080
<v Speaker 1>of mental manipulation and manipulation.

0:47:03.160 --> 0:47:05.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, some people see it that way, but I see

0:47:05.320 --> 0:47:07.240
<v Speaker 2>it as like this man is just such a little weasel.

0:47:07.280 --> 0:47:08.920
<v Speaker 2>He's such a performative little weasel.

0:47:09.320 --> 0:47:11.840
<v Speaker 1>That'd be my opinion as well. I got zero respect

0:47:11.840 --> 0:47:13.600
<v Speaker 1>for men to do this kind of craft dude kind

0:47:13.640 --> 0:47:16.920
<v Speaker 1>of crap like or women. It doesn't Matter's stuff that

0:47:16.960 --> 0:47:19.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm sensitive too because of how the you know, just

0:47:19.440 --> 0:47:21.200
<v Speaker 1>what it is that I experienced growing up, and like

0:47:21.560 --> 0:47:22.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, there have been people along the way. There

0:47:22.960 --> 0:47:25.279
<v Speaker 1>have even been men along the way that I've like

0:47:25.320 --> 0:47:28.080
<v Speaker 1>deferend it, that have gotten themselves involved in stuff like this,

0:47:28.120 --> 0:47:29.759
<v Speaker 1>and I've just repelled them. I do it. I want

0:47:29.840 --> 0:47:32.239
<v Speaker 1>nothing to do with that, right nothing at all. Yeah,

0:47:32.440 --> 0:47:34.839
<v Speaker 1>it's it's a it's a recipe from misery and it

0:47:34.880 --> 0:47:36.240
<v Speaker 1>always ends horribly.

0:47:35.920 --> 0:47:38.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, and people say, well, they have children, so then

0:47:38.680 --> 0:47:41.080
<v Speaker 2>they have to piece back together because the children adore him,

0:47:41.760 --> 0:47:44.200
<v Speaker 2>So we have reels of them playing and everything, But

0:47:44.239 --> 0:47:46.880
<v Speaker 2>we also had reels of him currently having an affair,

0:47:47.160 --> 0:47:49.880
<v Speaker 2>decorating the entire house to celebrate their anniversary with a

0:47:50.000 --> 0:47:54.440
<v Speaker 2>very performative little caption about how lucky he is and

0:47:54.480 --> 0:47:57.080
<v Speaker 2>she's his best the best friend, and he'll love her

0:47:57.080 --> 0:47:59.440
<v Speaker 2>forever and all this stuff, while he's currently sleeping with

0:47:59.440 --> 0:48:02.279
<v Speaker 2>somebody else. So we don't know anything about the way

0:48:02.360 --> 0:48:04.520
<v Speaker 2>that this man fathers. We do know that he wasn't

0:48:04.560 --> 0:48:06.600
<v Speaker 2>coming home at night because he was sleeping with their girlfriend.

0:48:06.640 --> 0:48:09.600
<v Speaker 1>It's you're a liar. You're a liar, and you're you're

0:48:09.680 --> 0:48:11.279
<v Speaker 1>unfaithful and you're untrustworthy.

0:48:11.719 --> 0:48:13.600
<v Speaker 2>Are you beyond redemption?

0:48:13.920 --> 0:48:14.640
<v Speaker 1>No, I don't know.

0:48:14.760 --> 0:48:16.040
<v Speaker 2>It depends on where your heart is.

0:48:16.080 --> 0:48:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Everyone is capable of redemption. You made a horrible, awful

0:48:18.719 --> 0:48:21.879
<v Speaker 1>mistake and victimize your wife and your kids in the process.

0:48:21.560 --> 0:48:23.560
<v Speaker 4>And now are continuing to do so, and you're continue

0:48:23.640 --> 0:48:25.400
<v Speaker 4>You're still doing it like you're making the same mistake

0:48:25.480 --> 0:48:26.080
<v Speaker 4>repeatedly there.

0:48:26.120 --> 0:48:27.759
<v Speaker 1>It's one thing to make a horrible mistake and learn

0:48:27.760 --> 0:48:29.680
<v Speaker 1>from it and emerge a better person, which is what

0:48:29.920 --> 0:48:32.680
<v Speaker 1>we should all hope for for for anyone ourselves included.

0:48:32.719 --> 0:48:36.439
<v Speaker 2>Like before you make like that, that is like, look

0:48:36.440 --> 0:48:38.080
<v Speaker 2>how sorry I am, and look at how much I

0:48:38.120 --> 0:48:40.920
<v Speaker 2>love my wife. How about before you permanently tattoo her

0:48:41.040 --> 0:48:42.759
<v Speaker 2>name on your wrist and then show it to the

0:48:42.960 --> 0:48:46.120
<v Speaker 2>entire world to garner sympathy. You see if she even

0:48:46.160 --> 0:48:48.680
<v Speaker 2>wants you back, and you give it a while, and

0:48:48.760 --> 0:48:53.000
<v Speaker 2>you prove over years, possibly over decades, that this woman

0:48:53.040 --> 0:48:57.719
<v Speaker 2>can trust you again privately, yes, privately, and let her

0:48:57.960 --> 0:49:01.520
<v Speaker 2>grieve and deal with this privately. You threw this affair

0:49:01.600 --> 0:49:05.000
<v Speaker 2>out into the public, and that's further victimizing her and

0:49:05.040 --> 0:49:06.040
<v Speaker 2>further humiliating.

0:49:06.160 --> 0:49:09.200
<v Speaker 1>And then for the people commenting on this again, shut it, yeah,

0:49:09.680 --> 0:49:10.279
<v Speaker 1>stay out of it.

0:49:10.600 --> 0:49:13.359
<v Speaker 2>Let her decide. Don't tell her that she has to

0:49:13.400 --> 0:49:15.920
<v Speaker 2>do this or she has to do that. This is

0:49:15.960 --> 0:49:16.840
<v Speaker 2>for her to decide.

0:49:16.960 --> 0:49:19.719
<v Speaker 1>You're entitled to your opinion, We're you're offering ours, and

0:49:19.760 --> 0:49:21.680
<v Speaker 1>this is all again this isn't you know.

0:49:21.840 --> 0:49:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, we're not saying whether or not she should stay

0:49:23.640 --> 0:49:25.840
<v Speaker 2>or leave. I mean, if it were me, I'd probably

0:49:25.840 --> 0:49:26.080
<v Speaker 2>be out.

0:49:26.360 --> 0:49:29.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm saying she should do what she feels is best

0:49:29.040 --> 0:49:30.640
<v Speaker 1>for herself and for her children.

0:49:30.680 --> 0:49:32.200
<v Speaker 2>That's what I'm saying, I think for her children, and

0:49:32.200 --> 0:49:34.799
<v Speaker 2>that's probably ultimately what she's thinking. Is this man a

0:49:34.840 --> 0:49:40.239
<v Speaker 2>good father? So can I bear this burden for the

0:49:40.280 --> 0:49:43.279
<v Speaker 2>sake of my children? And I feel torn on that

0:49:43.320 --> 0:49:46.920
<v Speaker 2>one too, because if someone's a really, really good father,

0:49:47.120 --> 0:49:49.080
<v Speaker 2>you don't want to remove the father from the home

0:49:49.120 --> 0:49:52.759
<v Speaker 2>because we all know that that causes damage. She made

0:49:52.800 --> 0:49:55.480
<v Speaker 2>the decision, but the children didn't, and it's ultimately the

0:49:55.560 --> 0:50:00.960
<v Speaker 2>children who suffer. So I understand that mental But at

0:50:00.960 --> 0:50:02.800
<v Speaker 2>the same time, they have a daughter, and what is

0:50:02.920 --> 0:50:06.760
<v Speaker 2>the message that you're giving your daughter That mom wasn't worthy,

0:50:06.920 --> 0:50:10.439
<v Speaker 2>that dad's a liar and a cheat. Also that if

0:50:10.480 --> 0:50:16.239
<v Speaker 2>this happens to you, that you that are expected biblically

0:50:16.520 --> 0:50:20.680
<v Speaker 2>to forgive, you have to. And so you have to

0:50:20.680 --> 0:50:23.040
<v Speaker 2>think about what message does this give? Does it give

0:50:23.080 --> 0:50:25.200
<v Speaker 2>the message off a strong woman? Because there can be

0:50:25.239 --> 0:50:28.440
<v Speaker 2>strength and forgiveness, but there can also be strength and independence.

0:50:28.800 --> 0:50:31.560
<v Speaker 2>So it depends on the situation. They know more about

0:50:31.560 --> 0:50:33.680
<v Speaker 2>the situation than any of us ever could.

0:50:33.520 --> 0:50:35.960
<v Speaker 1>For sure, And so my opinion, not that it matters,

0:50:36.000 --> 0:50:38.440
<v Speaker 1>would be that that's a very passive approach if you're

0:50:38.440 --> 0:50:40.279
<v Speaker 1>gonna take that person back like you are conveying a

0:50:40.320 --> 0:50:42.600
<v Speaker 1>message to Yeah, especially if you have daughters of like, no,

0:50:42.680 --> 0:50:44.560
<v Speaker 1>this is acceptable. These things happen, and I don't I

0:50:44.600 --> 0:50:46.600
<v Speaker 1>don't ever want one of my kids to think that, Yeah,

0:50:46.600 --> 0:50:47.120
<v Speaker 1>I think.

0:50:46.920 --> 0:50:50.120
<v Speaker 2>A true mistake. I think true mistakes can happen in

0:50:50.160 --> 0:50:52.680
<v Speaker 2>the heat of the moment, maybe under alcohol, maybe one time.

0:50:52.840 --> 0:50:57.360
<v Speaker 2>You don't put it on going relationship while pretending to

0:50:57.400 --> 0:50:59.680
<v Speaker 2>be a good husband, while making content about what I

0:50:59.719 --> 0:51:02.720
<v Speaker 2>want to while releasing new Christian songs.

0:51:02.760 --> 0:51:05.959
<v Speaker 1>Tell me about this one and controversial take. Feel free

0:51:06.040 --> 0:51:08.200
<v Speaker 1>to let me know what you think done in the comments.

0:51:08.200 --> 0:51:10.879
<v Speaker 1>Can men and women, especially if they're married, but even

0:51:10.880 --> 0:51:14.160
<v Speaker 1>if they're just involved in a really long term relationship

0:51:14.160 --> 0:51:17.759
<v Speaker 1>with a serious relationship, Can men and women have a

0:51:17.800 --> 0:51:20.920
<v Speaker 1>platonic friendship with a member of the opposite sex? Is

0:51:20.920 --> 0:51:23.200
<v Speaker 1>that something that you're comfortable with now? Because I am

0:51:23.239 --> 0:51:24.120
<v Speaker 1>not comfortable with it.

0:51:24.239 --> 0:51:26.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't think that. I think that there are very

0:51:26.360 --> 0:51:30.960
<v Speaker 2>very rare instances, very rare, And because it is the exception,

0:51:31.360 --> 0:51:34.839
<v Speaker 2>the big exception to the rule, because whenever a man

0:51:34.880 --> 0:51:38.280
<v Speaker 2>and a woman get along really well, they'll start seeing

0:51:38.360 --> 0:51:41.560
<v Speaker 2>flaws in their spouse or in their boyfriends or girlfriends.

0:51:41.560 --> 0:51:42.440
<v Speaker 1>You'll just start there.

0:51:42.719 --> 0:51:44.759
<v Speaker 2>It'll be like, look at how fun this person is.

0:51:44.760 --> 0:51:45.720
<v Speaker 2>It's because you don't live.

0:51:45.560 --> 0:51:47.080
<v Speaker 1>With that person. And I'm not saying, like, you know,

0:51:47.160 --> 0:51:49.080
<v Speaker 1>like you don't have a casual conversation like you you

0:51:49.239 --> 0:51:51.719
<v Speaker 1>have long term male friends, one that we're dealing with

0:51:51.760 --> 0:51:53.400
<v Speaker 1>right now, Like I don't like something that doesn't bother me.

0:51:53.480 --> 0:51:54.879
<v Speaker 1>You had other people in social media.

0:51:54.920 --> 0:51:57.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going and hanging out with the right it

0:51:57.560 --> 0:51:57.839
<v Speaker 2>was like.

0:51:57.840 --> 0:51:59.719
<v Speaker 1>Oh, hey, have a good day at work, honey, I'm

0:51:59.719 --> 0:52:00.920
<v Speaker 1>gonna go hang out with Bob.

0:52:01.200 --> 0:52:05.799
<v Speaker 3>For I'd be like, oh, oh yeah, And I would

0:52:05.800 --> 0:52:07.680
<v Speaker 3>expect the same on you, Like for you to place

0:52:08.160 --> 0:52:10.680
<v Speaker 3>those same expectations upon me, I would never consider to

0:52:10.680 --> 0:52:12.120
<v Speaker 3>be unreasonable.

0:52:11.520 --> 0:52:13.720
<v Speaker 2>If you were like, Hey, this girl that I knew

0:52:13.719 --> 0:52:16.600
<v Speaker 2>from Hawaii is in town. You're going to go get

0:52:16.640 --> 0:52:22.319
<v Speaker 2>lunch with her. That's funny because that No.

0:52:22.400 --> 0:52:24.040
<v Speaker 1>You don't play with fire, No you don't. You don't

0:52:24.040 --> 0:52:26.040
<v Speaker 1>do yourself in these situations. And that's why I'm saying, like,

0:52:26.040 --> 0:52:28.160
<v Speaker 1>for you to be like, I understand, like, mistakes can happen. Yeah,

0:52:28.160 --> 0:52:30.040
<v Speaker 1>they can, but that's why you avoid those situations, right,

0:52:30.080 --> 0:52:30.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, for.

0:52:30.400 --> 0:52:33.800
<v Speaker 2>Yourself those situation And then if the mistake does happen,

0:52:34.400 --> 0:52:37.279
<v Speaker 2>there's a mistake. Is you tripped and you fell, you know,

0:52:37.800 --> 0:52:43.520
<v Speaker 2>but you fell in it. But it's kind of like

0:52:43.560 --> 0:52:46.759
<v Speaker 2>with kids if they drop something and they shatter it

0:52:46.800 --> 0:52:48.520
<v Speaker 2>and it breaks, like, ah, that was a mistake, that

0:52:48.560 --> 0:52:51.880
<v Speaker 2>was an accident. But if they continually break things on

0:52:52.000 --> 0:52:54.839
<v Speaker 2>purpose and they make the choice, just like they break

0:52:54.840 --> 0:52:56.480
<v Speaker 2>a window with a baseball, and then they grab the

0:52:56.520 --> 0:52:59.560
<v Speaker 2>baseball and they go, that was fun. I'm gonna throw

0:52:59.600 --> 0:53:01.200
<v Speaker 2>it and break out all the other windows. And then

0:53:01.200 --> 0:53:03.960
<v Speaker 2>they try to say it was a mistake. It's not

0:53:04.040 --> 0:53:06.360
<v Speaker 2>a mistake, that was a conscious decision.

0:53:06.520 --> 0:53:09.360
<v Speaker 1>Weird analogy, but I get your parint. I mean, it's

0:53:09.040 --> 0:53:12.120
<v Speaker 1>just I don't know. Again, I'm sentive to do situations.

0:53:12.200 --> 0:53:13.759
<v Speaker 1>Let us know what you think down in the comments below.

0:53:13.800 --> 0:53:16.600
<v Speaker 1>For one, can men and women be friends? Seriously? Blown

0:53:16.600 --> 0:53:18.080
<v Speaker 1>it out there. I'm sure many of you have had

0:53:18.280 --> 0:53:20.439
<v Speaker 1>a platonic relationship with a member of the opposite sex

0:53:20.480 --> 0:53:22.799
<v Speaker 1>while involved in a serious.

0:53:22.080 --> 0:53:26.160
<v Speaker 2>Can there be true redemption in a marriage where somebody

0:53:26.320 --> 0:53:29.719
<v Speaker 2>has betrayed the trust with an ongoing relationship. I'm not

0:53:29.719 --> 0:53:31.880
<v Speaker 2>talking about on one night stant I'm talking about somebody

0:53:31.920 --> 0:53:36.000
<v Speaker 2>had a relationship. Can there ever be true trust again?

0:53:36.480 --> 0:53:38.920
<v Speaker 2>And or is that just a burden that the person

0:53:38.960 --> 0:53:43.480
<v Speaker 2>who forgave bears forever? You know, Like I've made the decision,

0:53:43.760 --> 0:53:47.239
<v Speaker 2>but as somebody, I haven't been cheated on, but I'm

0:53:47.239 --> 0:53:49.040
<v Speaker 2>sure we have people in our audience that have been

0:53:49.120 --> 0:53:51.960
<v Speaker 2>cheated on and have forgiven. Do you carry that burden forever?

0:53:52.440 --> 0:53:55.920
<v Speaker 2>Or or can you actually? Is our true redemption to

0:53:56.000 --> 0:53:57.600
<v Speaker 2>be found found?

0:53:57.680 --> 0:54:00.000
<v Speaker 1>But I mean, that's that's a scarring traumatic.

0:54:00.600 --> 0:54:02.080
<v Speaker 2>Can it ever be what it was before?

0:54:02.680 --> 0:54:06.719
<v Speaker 1>I would argue it cannot be? Personally, that's me Lest

0:54:06.880 --> 0:54:08.359
<v Speaker 1>you guys think down in the common section, we're gonna

0:54:08.360 --> 0:54:10.160
<v Speaker 1>find this one down. The kids are supposed to be

0:54:10.160 --> 0:54:11.480
<v Speaker 1>coming home right now. Again.

0:54:12.080 --> 0:54:14.600
<v Speaker 2>I've been listening, literally, I've been listening for the grave

0:54:14.840 --> 0:54:16.680
<v Speaker 2>we have asphole. Now see the gravel used to go

0:54:17.920 --> 0:54:20.239
<v Speaker 2>IFDA has a quiet car. So I'm hoping they're home now,

0:54:20.320 --> 0:54:21.160
<v Speaker 2>but I hope they.

0:54:21.040 --> 0:54:24.799
<v Speaker 1>Make it back safely. On all the ducklings back properly,

0:54:25.520 --> 0:54:27.160
<v Speaker 1>all right? Anyway, you guys, say care, Thank you for

0:54:27.160 --> 0:54:29.000
<v Speaker 1>being here once again, love and appreciate you. We will

0:54:29.000 --> 0:54:29.840
<v Speaker 1>see you next week.

0:54:29.960 --> 0:54:31.279
<v Speaker 2>Yep, we'll be here next week.

0:54:31.320 --> 0:54:32.960
<v Speaker 1>We'll see you here on the New World Post Whole podcast.

0:54:33.000 --> 0:54:38.400
<v Speaker 1>You guys, take care,