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Speaker 1: All right. First of all, I just want to say

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Speaker 1: that color looks absolutely stunning on you.

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Speaker 2: It looks likewise on you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Twins. Totally unintentional on our part,

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Speaker 1: but we welcome you back here to be WORLDLDSHO podcast friends,

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Speaker 1: thanks for being here once again. Today we were talking

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Speaker 1: about some marriage and fidelity, believe it or not, controversial

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Speaker 1: topic and subject quite taboo, but there's been some online

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Speaker 1: chatter this week about exactly that with some people that

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Speaker 1: are far more prominent and well known than we are online,

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Speaker 1: which I'm okay with, Yeah, and for a variety of reasons,

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Speaker 1: stuff like this being one of them. But there have

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Speaker 1: been a couple of instances of some female wives, some

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Speaker 1: ladies who have been getting a lot of input, let's say,

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Speaker 1: from their individual audiences, and we wanted to discuss that

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Speaker 1: because it goes into just something greater, whether it be faith, religion, marriage,

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Speaker 1: the interpersonal communication that we have with our audiences. So

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Speaker 1: let's jump into that discussion without wasting any time. If

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Speaker 1: I seem a little off today, it's because two of

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Speaker 1: our babies are out of the house and off the property.

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Speaker 2: And our actual baby did not sleep oh wink. Last

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Speaker 2: night and you woke up inconsolable four times. He's got

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Speaker 2: two top teeth coming in, some allergies going on. It

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Speaker 2: was brutal.

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Speaker 1: It has been a day, day, It has been a day.

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Speaker 1: But Kaimani and Neva are audit here and I'm always

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Speaker 1: very distracted when my babies aren't near to you and

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Speaker 1: I we like.

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Speaker 2: The death things to be under the wings.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, especially with Kaimani because big difference between a young man,

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Speaker 1: young teenage boy and a female daughter. Anyway, I'm wasting time.

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Speaker 1: I said, if we were going to do that, let's

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Speaker 1: jump into the conversation.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So this week I saw that Hannah Nielman. She

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Speaker 2: most of you guys know her as Ballerina Farms. She

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Speaker 2: is probably the most prominent trad wife, which is short

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Speaker 2: for a traditional wife. She is one of the LDS

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Speaker 2: influencers in Utah. So we have seen a lot of

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Speaker 2: yeschad wife influencers a rise up because this whole take

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Speaker 2: back femininity movement has exploded on Instagram and TikTok and

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Speaker 2: now it's pouring over onto YouTube as well.

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Speaker 1: I'm not seeing any of this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, probably not fit to you. So essentially it's this

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Speaker 2: beautiful aesthetic of motherhood and having lots of free range babies,

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Speaker 2: and everything's natural wood colored, and there's aprons, and there's chickens,

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Speaker 2: and there's barefoot babies and overalls with like one strap hanging,

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Speaker 2: and there's sour dough. There's all of that.

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Speaker 1: So this is athetic, it's an esthetic. This is all

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Speaker 1: a portrayal. Like everything you see online.

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Speaker 2: I find it. I have mixed opinions on it because

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Speaker 2: I think part of it sets an unrealistic expectation for

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Speaker 2: what motherhood and being a wife looks like. But at

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Speaker 2: the same time, it's wholesome content and it sure beats

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Speaker 2: like the only fans stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you like it, so be it, just not

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Speaker 1: in my couple of tea.

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Speaker 2: I think that it's wholesome and it's beautiful, but I

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Speaker 2: understand that it's an aesthetic and that it's performative, and

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Speaker 2: then enjoy it understanding. Yes, yeah, because nobody's life is perfect.

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Speaker 2: Nobody just silently speaks in a whisper while making sour

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Speaker 2: dough with eight children at their feet. If you have

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Speaker 2: eight children at you, well yeah, I'll bake bread with

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Speaker 2: children at my feet. But it's like he's pulling my

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Speaker 2: pants down, like, grab him, somebody grab him. My hands

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Speaker 2: are sticky, you know, that's what it sounds like. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't sound like this.

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Speaker 1: It's chaos. Yes, fairness is and that's okay.

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Speaker 2: It's beautiful chaos, but it is what it is. That

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Speaker 2: does not make a good aesthetic. Nobody wants to watch that.

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Speaker 1: So how did she step in it? This week? And

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Speaker 1: then we'll let's delve into the background on her and

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Speaker 1: her husband as well, because that's the part that I

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Speaker 1: actually found interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I find Hannah Nielman very interesting. The reason they're

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Speaker 2: called ballerina farms is because she was a prima ballerina

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Speaker 2: at New York's Julliard and she met her husband. I

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Speaker 2: believe they got married eleven or twelve years ago. She

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Speaker 2: met her husband at Juilliard. I don't know why he

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Speaker 2: was skulking around Juilliard looking for a ballerina, but essentially

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Speaker 2: he was very wealthy. His family owns Jet Blue, the airline,

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Speaker 2: and he asked her out. She said no. He asked

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Speaker 2: her out again, she wasn't interested. Then he somehow figured

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Speaker 2: out what flight she was on, bought a ticket, made

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Speaker 2: sure that he was sitting there holst to her, for sure, stopper.

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Speaker 2: It's a little weird I would think so as a young.

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Speaker 1: Girl, no judgment.

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Speaker 2: They were the same age, so it's not I'd be

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Speaker 2: a little weirded out. But he really wanted to meet Hannah.

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Speaker 2: He really wanted to date Hannah. She took it as Okay,

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Speaker 2: this guy's really serious about it. I'll give him a

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Speaker 2: first date. They hit it off, they got married. Since then,

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Speaker 2: they have had eight children in eleven years until this week.

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Speaker 2: And they just announced maybe five or six days ago

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Speaker 2: through an ad campaign that she was pregnant with number

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Speaker 2: nine and ready to burst pregnant with number nine.

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Speaker 1: So this came as a surprise to everyone.

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Speaker 2: Yep, they were hiding it and.

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Speaker 1: So joyous congratulations. It should be a happy occasion.

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Speaker 2: It should, for sure. So what they did is so

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Speaker 2: they have a lot of products. She's kind of ane.

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Speaker 2: Joanna gains in a way because they're going to eventually

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Speaker 2: be having a store where you can go and shop.

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Speaker 2: I think you can already shop the store, but they

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Speaker 2: think they were talking about doing a bakery and other stuff,

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Speaker 2: so essentially like a Magnolia Market, but Ballerina.

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Speaker 1: Farm because they are both eldos yep.

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Speaker 2: They have. I mean, she has nine million million followers

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Speaker 2: on TikTok, seven and a half million followers on Instagram,

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Speaker 2: one point six million on YouTube. She is huge. She

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Speaker 2: has got a massive following. And so it's not like

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Speaker 2: she's a stay at home mom. She's a mogul. She's

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Speaker 2: very successful at what she does, and I think that's great.

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Speaker 2: And so they have like all kinds of stuff. I

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Speaker 2: actually really like their Electrolyt drink. If you're looking for

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Speaker 2: a good I buy it. I drink it. I did

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Speaker 2: through my pregnancy because she did through her pregnancy, so

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Speaker 2: I trusted it because her babies are healthy, and so

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Speaker 2: now they just are releasing a protein powder. And the

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Speaker 2: commercial was beautiful, and it was all of these Juilliard

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Speaker 2: dancers doing ballet and then it was her and it

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Speaker 2: was the slogan was something like strength but it looks

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Speaker 2: different now, our strength on a different stage or something

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Speaker 2: like that. And she's talking about motherhood. So she's watching

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Speaker 2: these dancers dance like she used to, and then she

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Speaker 2: pulls her jacket back and she's big and pregnant with

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Speaker 2: number nine. Beautiful commercial. I loved it, and the internet

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Speaker 2: lost their minds Baby number nine he's breeding her like

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Speaker 2: a cow. This is just ridiculous. This man is manipulating

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Speaker 2: her and all of this and the whole thing started

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Speaker 2: because I think it was The London Times did an

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Speaker 2: article on her where they essentially asked to come out

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Speaker 2: and meet the most famous trat wife and do a

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Speaker 2: article on her family. She agreed. They were very kind.

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Speaker 2: They had this reporter in their home and you know

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Speaker 2: that old story, how that goes there done that, they

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Speaker 2: wrote essentially a hit piece on ballerina farm and on

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Speaker 2: Hannah and her husband and how she was this gorgeous

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Speaker 2: dancer and all she ever wanted to be was a

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Speaker 2: ballerina and now she's this this stay at home trad

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Speaker 2: wife that is just bred yearly. All she's allowed to

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Speaker 2: do is have babies, and a lot of stuff has

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Speaker 2: been kind of taken.

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Speaker 1: They're grossed up by the fact that she abandoned this

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Speaker 1: independent streak as a strong woman and she gave all

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Speaker 1: that up for this traditional lifestyle where she is having

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Speaker 1: a litter of.

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Speaker 2: Children, yes, a litter of children.

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Speaker 1: That there's anything wrong with her, no, And she.

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Speaker 2: Homeschools, she doesn't have a nanny, which I'm like, hey,

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Speaker 2: we've got a wealthy family here that doesn't utilize a nanny.

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Speaker 2: I think that's fantastic, and she runs a business. To me,

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Speaker 2: she's a true proverb thirty one woman.

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Speaker 1: It's really refreshing, especially having gotten to know so many

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Speaker 1: people in the online space. We are parents who, much

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Speaker 1: like we said here at the jump of this episode

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Speaker 1: of podcasts, we like our babies to be close. We're

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Speaker 1: always around. We do the homeschooling thing. But you know, obviously,

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Speaker 1: but so many people become so dedicated and devoted to

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Speaker 1: creating content that they will like very happily cast their

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Speaker 1: children aside and I'll offer them to be raised essentially

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Speaker 1: by somebody else, which I don't personally agree with.

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Speaker 2: Right, they will get nanny's for the daytime, nanny's for

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Speaker 2: the nighttime. And we see that with gossipy podcasters, for example,

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Speaker 2: that I think that children don't wake up at two

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Speaker 2: thirty in the morning because that's when their rem sleep is,

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Speaker 2: and it's.

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Speaker 1: I was totally unaware of this, but I'm making an

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Speaker 1: assumption annoying that we were talking about.

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about Cantazon. So she literally was attacking Erica

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Speaker 2: Kirk because Erica said the night before Charlie was assassinated

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Speaker 2: that their daughter woke up at two in the morning

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Speaker 2: and got into their bed, which she regularly does. Yeh,

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Speaker 2: so total sidebar. Anyway, the fact that she was like

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Speaker 2: a childrenn get up at two thirty. I'm thinking this

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Speaker 2: woman as a night nanny if you don't know that

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Speaker 2: children regularly get up at two thirty because they don't

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Speaker 2: know that rem sleep is on a schedule, because it's

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Speaker 2: not anyway, total cyber. See I'm just now I'm venting

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Speaker 2: go back in my little so with Hannah Nielman. She

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Speaker 2: doesn't have nanny's I respect that she homeschools her kids.

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Speaker 2: She bakes from scratch, she has a beautiful garden. Does

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Speaker 2: she have a staff and that's why her place looks fantastic. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: they have a staff, but the staff does not nanny

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Speaker 2: the children. She raises her babies. And that was part

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Speaker 2: of the criticism of this article. They're like she took

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Speaker 2: her baby, who was very young at the time, and

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Speaker 2: laid it on her chest, where it remained for the

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Speaker 2: four hour interview, like as if that was a bad thing. Fantastic, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so we're babies, her babies stay and it's funny because

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Speaker 2: I get a lot of crap for that too. I

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Speaker 2: wear Micah a lot. If the weather is nice, I

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Speaker 2: will be wearing Micah as long as he's tolerating it.

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Speaker 2: We all do it, Yeah, and we all sleep with Micah,

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Speaker 2: you and.

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Speaker 1: I, especially the kids. The kids do a great job too.

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Speaker 1: We cherish him because we now have the benefit of

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Speaker 1: hindsight and knowing that this goes really quickly, and so

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Speaker 1: we are soaking up every moment that we possibly can.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, contact napping didn't used to be a thing, but

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Speaker 2: it's very much now. We know all of the mental

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Speaker 2: benefits and all of the physical benefits of contact napping.

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Speaker 2: They sleep better, they feel more secure, it's good for

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Speaker 2: their cortisol levels, and awesome. It's so awesome, like your

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Speaker 2: little head and their little noises and their little mouth

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Speaker 2: and breath. It sounds good anyway anyway, An there's that.

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Speaker 2: So Hannah does a great job. And if she wants

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Speaker 2: to have nine babies, go for it, like she is

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Speaker 2: killing it. They can afford it. She's there for them.

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Speaker 2: The kids look happy, healthy, they're always interacting. I don't

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Speaker 2: see any problem with it. But the internet is saying

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Speaker 2: there's a few things. One is why are you bringing

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Speaker 2: children into such a broken world when all this stuff

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Speaker 2: is happening all of you know, war on the horizon,

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Speaker 2: and why would you ever bring children into a world

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Speaker 2: that looks like this, especially so many children? And then

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Speaker 2: the other criticism is you can't possibly love that many

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Speaker 2: children or give them the attention that they need.

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Speaker 1: Absord So what do you take? What you take on? Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I will go off on this topic if you'd like

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Speaker 1: me too.

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Speaker 2: I've been sharing about my favorite clean makeup and skincare

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Speaker 2: brand for a few weeks now, and I've had so

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Speaker 2: many of you guys writing to ask me what is

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Speaker 2: the name of it? So it is Tooops and Cut

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Speaker 2: and I'm absolutely in love with everything that I've tried

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Speaker 2: so far. When I actually started paying attention to ingredients

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Speaker 2: and fragrances, I realized that I've been slathering hundreds of

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Speaker 2: harmful chemicals onto my skin my entire life. And our

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Speaker 2: is our body's largest organ Everything that we put on

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Speaker 2: it is absorbed right into our bodies. So I instantly

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Speaker 2: dumped all my old skincare and makeup for Toops and Co.

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Speaker 2: Now what I absolutely loved about Toops and Co Was

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Speaker 2: they use only super clean ingredients. I can get everything

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Speaker 2: I need in one place, and they have really nice

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Speaker 2: products that also nourish my skin while I wear them now.

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Speaker 2: I absolutely hate cakey makeup that feels heavy or greasy

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Speaker 2: and it settles into all my fine lines. But Toops

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Speaker 2: and Cod just feels so light and it looks really natural.

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Speaker 2: Normally I avoid liquid foundation, but I absolutely love theirs.

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Speaker 2: Today I'm wearing the primer, the liquid foundation, the cream blush,

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Speaker 2: the natural eyepalette, the mascara, and the lipstick, and they

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Speaker 2: are by far my favorite makeup that I've ever tried.

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Speaker 2: Besides the makeup, I have been loving the bombs. The

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Speaker 2: Frankinson's balm is a fantastic natural retinol alternative, and the

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Speaker 2: body bombs are so moisturizing and they smell amazing. I

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Speaker 2: also got Baby Mica the Baby Bomb, and it clears

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Speaker 2: up all that teething rash and his chapped little chin

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Speaker 2: and cheeks overnight, and I highly recommend it to anyone

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Speaker 2: that has littles in their life. So if you're like

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Speaker 2: me and you want to clean up your health and

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Speaker 2: everything that you're putting on your skin without giving up quality,

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Speaker 2: definitely go check out tups and Co. In fact, you

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Speaker 2: will get twenty five percent off your first order by

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Speaker 2: going to toopsinco dot com slash old soul and when

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Speaker 2: you do, remember to use our code old soul for

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Speaker 2: twenty five percent off your first order.

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Speaker 1: I will go off on this topic if you'd like

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Speaker 1: me too, because I get so sick and tired. We

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Speaker 1: get some of this too. We have five kids. I

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Speaker 1: love all of my children. It doesn't take away any

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Speaker 1: ounce of love, care, or affection having a number of children.

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Speaker 1: It really does not, especially when it comes to Michael.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, experiences taught us so much and it's

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Speaker 1: amplified that love tremendously. Plus, people can have as many

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Speaker 1: kids as they freaking want to. Sorry is if you

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Speaker 1: have the means to do so, and you know you're

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Speaker 1: providing your children with a fantastic quality of life. I

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Speaker 1: don't care if you have twelve kids. I don't care

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Speaker 1: if you have twenty kids. It pisses me off that

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Speaker 1: anyone out there would try to encourage somebody else to

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Speaker 1: make the conscious decision to deprive themselves of the long

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Speaker 1: term happiness that you get to experience with having a

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Speaker 1: large family. It's not only fantastic from a parental standpoint,

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Speaker 1: but now that we have older children and a younger child,

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Speaker 1: a one year old nearly one year old, crazy to say,

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Speaker 1: it's so beautiful to watch them interact. It is so

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Speaker 1: incredibly fulfilling. There is nothing greater. And you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: somebody who was raised as an only child. I didn't

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Speaker 1: have any of this experience growing up myself. Yeah, being

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Speaker 1: a parent and seeing all of this come together, there's

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Speaker 1: something that's so pure about it and just raw. It

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Speaker 1: warms your heart like nothing else in this world.

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Speaker 2: I love siblings.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: I grew up with siblings. You didn't, so you didn't

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Speaker 2: have that experience. When we first started having children, you were,

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Speaker 2: we had you were. If you don't have any more kids,

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Speaker 2: I'm good. I'm good with one. There's something wrong with

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Speaker 2: raising one child. And then we had the two and

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Speaker 2: you were good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I've come around over time, But I mean, I

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Speaker 1: guess the biggest my biggest gripe is the fact that,

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Speaker 1: like you, anyone out there feels comfortable telling somebody else

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Speaker 1: what they should do with their own lives. You know,

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Speaker 1: if it's a situation where like you don't have the

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Speaker 1: means okay, so so be it. Maybe there's you know,

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Speaker 1: a private, actually conversation that can take place and transpire,

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Speaker 1: but like you don't, you don't get to tell anybody

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Speaker 1: else in this world what it is that they can

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Speaker 1: or cannot do. I'm sorry, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Agree with Tucker's whole have more kids than you can

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Speaker 2: like you always said, they have more kids than you

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Speaker 2: can afford. I see what he's saying. I get, but

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Speaker 2: I don't think you should have more kids than you

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Speaker 2: can afford, and you shouldn't make it somebody else's problem.

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Speaker 2: I also don't think you should keep popping out kids

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Speaker 2: if you're not going to actively be there to raise them,

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Speaker 2: if you're just throwing them into daycare and you're going

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Speaker 2: back to work, and you're putting your priorities or what

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Speaker 2: you want or what you think you need, but it's

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Speaker 2: really it's what you want above the welfare of your children,

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Speaker 2: because I truly think that, at least for the first

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Speaker 2: three to four years, your children need to be at

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Speaker 2: home with mom all day. I truly truly believe that

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Speaker 2: for their mental well being. And I've seen a lot

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Speaker 2: of stuff on that there was this whole healthy attack

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Speaker 2: disorder thing going on where they showed two children, and

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Speaker 2: there was this one little girl who was very uncomfortable

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Speaker 2: in this play public play situation, and she was holding

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Speaker 2: on to her mom, and when her mom left the room,

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Speaker 2: she melted down. They had a stranger come in and

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Speaker 2: show her all these toys and try to entertain her,

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Speaker 2: and the little girls not having it. She was hiding,

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Speaker 2: and then when her mom came back, she ran to her.

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Speaker 1: Crying proper response.

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Speaker 2: And then they showed a little girl who's playing with

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Speaker 2: her mom in this public play area. Then the mom leaves.

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Speaker 2: The little girl doesn't even notice mom left, She's just playing.

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Speaker 2: A stranger comes in, starts showing her toys. She plays

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Speaker 2: with the stranger in the same way that she was

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Speaker 2: playing with her mom. She did not care that she

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Speaker 2: didn't know that woman.

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Speaker 1: That's a product of our society and we do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. They were asking the Internet, which one is proper attachment,

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Speaker 2: and almost everybody said the little girl that was unfazed,

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Speaker 2: and the correct answer was no, the little girl who

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Speaker 2: was very alarmed that her mother was leaving, that a

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Speaker 2: stranger was entering. That's proper attachment at the age of two.

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Speaker 2: That is the way that it's supposed to be. Micah

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Speaker 2: hates when I leave, if I go to the bathroom,

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Speaker 2: he melts down. But you know what, he's ten months old,

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Speaker 2: and at his age, that is proper attachment. He realizes

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Speaker 2: that we are separate people now, lifelines. He realizes that

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Speaker 2: I can leave and he doesn't like that, And that's

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Speaker 2: actually a healthy feeling and soul.

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Speaker 1: Those are the things that people are willing to criticize

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Speaker 1: and critique. Right, you're holding your child too much with me,

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Speaker 1: You're holding out that I can't hold my child enough.

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Speaker 1: You're having too many kids. Granted, there are situations where

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Speaker 1: maybe that can be the case, but when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about it, just a normal, happy, healthy family who functions

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Speaker 1: in a way that is isn't a detriment to anybody.

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Speaker 1: Why are you speaking up having five children brings me

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Speaker 1: tremendous joy. Why would you ever try to go out

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Speaker 1: of your way to make that a negative thing. I

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Speaker 1: just don't understand this mentality.

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Speaker 2: And having nine children brought them tremendous joy. And she

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Speaker 2: is sitting in bed looking fantastic right after she gave

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Speaker 2: birth to her ninth child. Fantastic. She's oh, by the way,

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Speaker 2: baby number nine arrived last night. So I'm like you, also,

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Speaker 2: you haven't slept and you look like that.

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Speaker 1: You just fresh criticize that more than having nine children,

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Speaker 1: because you know that's not the case. In the other way,

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Speaker 1: to make things look a certain way.

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Speaker 2: They were just announcing her birth. It was very quick.

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Speaker 2: It was a quick little story baby.

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Speaker 1: Number nine, and very raw.

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Speaker 2: She looked like she had just given birth. She was

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Speaker 2: still in bed. I'm pretty sure she was still sitting

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Speaker 2: on the little birth pad and whatever.

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Speaker 1: And she had the baby visioning something else.

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Speaker 2: But no, she was no makeup. She she just looks

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Speaker 2: that way. It's a woman's beautiful. She's just granola to

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Speaker 2: the mass, but in the best glowy way. I must

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Speaker 2: know what she should buy the protein.

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Speaker 1: So all of the criticism has revolved around the fact

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Speaker 1: that they're having just too.

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Speaker 2: Many kids, too many kids, and that the internet is

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Speaker 2: convinced that this woman is being held captive by this

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Speaker 2: man and that he is forcing her to have these

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Speaker 2: babies that she doesn't want. And I recognize that newborn bliss.

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Speaker 2: She literally said, we're just in newborn bliss right now.

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Speaker 2: And she has eighteen months old or two year old

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Speaker 2: and pretty much every eighteen months. She's had a baby

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Speaker 2: for the last eleven years.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot of kids in a very short period

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Speaker 1: of time. But again, that's their life, so be it.

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Speaker 1: They get to decide for themselves. What I think all

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Speaker 1: of that stems from is just the fact that you

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Speaker 1: have certain people, certain groups of people, who have this

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Speaker 1: thought process where like, no, we need to leave all

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Speaker 1: of that behind, We need to evolve, move on and

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00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:24,399
Speaker 1: become something new entirely. Women especially need to embrace this

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Speaker 1: streak of independence that that so many of them have.

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Speaker 1: And maybe she did genuinely feel that way at one

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Speaker 1: point in time when she was attending Juilliard, but you're

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Speaker 1: allowed to change your mind right and think for yourself

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Speaker 1: and find that happiness and fulfillment for yourself. For them

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Speaker 1: to go out of their way to vilify her husband

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Speaker 1: by default and say, no, this is your doing. You

401
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 1: just manipulated her. We have a great example of actual

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Speaker 1: spousal manipulation that we're going to discuss here in a second,

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Speaker 1: and that'll be Yeah, I can't wait to dive into that one.

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Speaker 1: But for both of them, if they're happy, if they're

405
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Speaker 1: contented and they're ecstatic with their situation. Good for them.

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Speaker 1: Shut your mouth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. And the business building is tremendou it's

408
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 2: very successful. I hope that they continue their success. I

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00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 2: think that they have a very beautiful example. If I

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00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 2: see differently, I'll say I was wrong. But them right now,

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00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:13,679
Speaker 2: they seem happy, they seem healthy.

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Speaker 1: They're a family and people who should be looked at

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Speaker 1: as being like an example of what is possible again,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I hate seeing this, whether it be

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Speaker 1: somebody who finds financial success, find success within their family,

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Speaker 1: it's like, let's let's tear that person down because they

417
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 1: broke away from the herd and they're doing their own

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00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 1: thing and they found something that works for themselves. I

419
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,399
Speaker 1: had the inability thus far to do that, so I

420
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Speaker 1: got to come after you. I got to pull you

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Speaker 1: back down into the bucket. How dare you thrive and

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Speaker 1: be successful where I'm not?

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Speaker 2: And her being successful as a trad wife does not destroy.

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Speaker 1: The you know, it doesn't take anything, doesn't take anything.

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Speaker 2: Away from somebody who chooses not to have children, or

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Speaker 2: chooses a career, or chooses to have a boy and

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Speaker 2: a girl and that's it and be done. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: affect those people, so She's not going after you, So

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Speaker 2: why are people if you.

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Speaker 1: Are that independent woman and U chose career over having

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Speaker 1: a traditional family and lifestyle. Again, congratulations, do what you

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Speaker 1: want to do. Everybody else should shut their mouths.

433
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So anyway, congratulations to the Nielman family. Corret adorable.

434
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 2: All right, guys, Easter is just around the corner and

435
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 2: we're all starting to think about filling up those baskets

436
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 2: for all the little ones in our lives now. For

437
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 2: many kids today, Easter means egg hunts, candy, and of

438
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 2: course the Easter Buddy. These are all really fun traditions,

439
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 2: but they can also overshadow the true meaning of why

440
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 2: we celebrate Easter and how the resurrection of Jesus changed everything.

441
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: So they usually try to find the perfect basket stuffers.

442
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 1: Definitely go check out the incredible story that Brave Books

443
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,160
Speaker 1: just released from Christian apologists Melissa Doherty called The Day

444
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 1: That Made the Way to help families clearly explain the

445
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 1: real story of Easter and the gospel behind it.

446
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, The Day That Made the Way is a sweet

447
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 2: story about creatures living in darkness until light enters the world,

448
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 2: helping kids understand big biblical ideas like sin, redemption, and

449
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 2: why Jesus had to die and rise again.

450
00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 1: Milsa wrote it because she knows firsthand how easily people

451
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 1: can be drawn towards spiritual ideas that sound good but

452
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 1: drift away from biblical truth, especially if they were never

453
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 1: grounded in scripture early in life.

454
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 2: In addition to the Day That Made the Way, Brave

455
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,360
Speaker 2: also has a very sweet Easter bundle that is perfect

456
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,919
Speaker 2: for every basket. This year, I got the whole bundle

457
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 2: and there are two incredible books, a coloring book and

458
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 2: activity books, stickers, colored pencils, and the cutest, softest bunny.

459
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 2: Just add some sweets in your all set.

460
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 1: Also right now, if you join the Brave Book Club,

461
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: which we've been telling you guys about for months now,

462
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: you'll get The Day That Made the Way for free,

463
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,159
Speaker 1: along with the new children's book each month designed to

464
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: help families teach biblical values and a Christian worldview. When

465
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 1: you go to Brave Books dot Com slash Easter. Okay,

466
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: story number two. This is the one that I'm excited

467
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: to jump into because you I'm not familiar with this.

468
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: I have no first hand experience in reviewing any of this,

469
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: but you and a Vela were going off telling me

470
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: about it and this is insanity.

471
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I told you a little bit about it when

472
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 2: we were in Hawaii. That's when the story broke, and

473
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 2: then since then I've just kind of been following it.

474
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: And before we even jumped into this, I'm your premise, preface.

475
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: Excuse me this, Parson of the conversation, I say, like,

476
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 1: we're not We're not trying to judge, as I'm sure

477
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: some people will perceive this to be. Like, this isn't

478
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: about judgment. This is about people who are public figures

479
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: who put this.

480
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 2: They put this out publicly. This isn't gossip or slander.

481
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 2: This is something that they have turned into content. And

482
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 2: so when you turn it into content, I feel like

483
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:19,239
Speaker 2: it's okay too.

484
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: And I genuinely wish them both the best. However, we

485
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: are going to just analyze this situation because it's it's

486
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: very complex and it ties it interfines into its faith,

487
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: religion specifically, and just what we perceive to be right

488
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 1: and wrong in a marriage.

489
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 2: Yes, and yeah, like you said, it goes into a

490
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 2: broader discussion of what modern churches or what modern Christianity

491
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 2: says versus what is actually biblically based. All right, I

492
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 2: think that's really important. So there is If you guys

493
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 2: remember the Douggers, I'm sure you did, there was another

494
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 2: family called the Baits and they had Bringing Up Baits

495
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 2: and it was the Dougger's best friends and they were

496
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 2: featured in one another's content and I was called Bringing

497
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 2: Up Baits and the Baits on the Dugger Show. They

498
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 2: wore the big dress. They dressed more prairie.

499
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: They had the look.

500
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had the look where the Douggers had kind

501
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 2: of moved past that. They still wore the skirts and everything,

502
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,919
Speaker 2: but they didn't wear the homemade dresses and everything. And

503
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 2: the Baits still really look like they were definitely into

504
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 2: that cult still. I mean the Douggers were a cult

505
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 2: and everything too.

506
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: The Butunners, the Asners, but.

507
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 2: Well they're not bunners. Bunners are the ones that were their.

508
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: Hair and look that branch of Christianity.

509
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, in Washington there's a religion where it's probably other

510
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 2: places too, but definitely in the Pacific Northwest, there was

511
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: this religion where they had a bunch of kids and

512
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: they all the women were regarded were their hair in

513
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 2: a bun and so everybody called them bunners. And so

514
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 2: these ones wear their hair big and puffy and curly

515
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 2: and the big prairie dresses. So anyway, that was the

516
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 2: Baits and bringing up bits that a lot of you

517
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 2: guys have probably watched the show or at least are

518
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 2: familiar with them. So now that the girls have gotten

519
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: older and the boys have gotten older, a lot of

520
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 2: them have left the religious cult that they were a

521
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 2: part of, and now they wear jeans and stretch pants

522
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 2: and woo, you know, they're yeah, they're being risky ladies

523
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 2: and their yoga pants. So Katie Baits was one of

524
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 2: the girls that had left, and then she married Travis Clark.

525
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 2: Travis Clark is kind of an up and coming or

526
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 2: I don't even know if he's up and coming. Maybe

527
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 2: he's just a small time Christian singer. And he was

528
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: featured a little bit on the show when they were recording,

529
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 2: and then they got married four years ago and they've

530
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 2: since had two children. So she blew up on Instagram

531
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 2: and they had a YouTube channel as well, making kind

532
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 2: of similar content to Ballerina Farm, but not not at

533
00:25:54,680 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 2: all in the same It wasn't as like Gee Home

534
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 2: Steady it wasn't home steady at all. She's she lives,

535
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 2: she dresses nice, and she's into fancy hair and makeup

536
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 2: and all of that. And it's not the hair, yeah,

537
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 2: for sure, she's it's a different aesthetic, but it's still

538
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 2: like that that mom kids. This is how we do

539
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: at birthday parties? Is that kind of stuff. So anyway,

540
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: Travis and her would always make these reels back and

541
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 2: forth of how much they appreciated one another, what a

542
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: wonderful husband he is. She just posted a reel a

543
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 2: couple months ago saying I'm rich because he's the father

544
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 2: of my children, and then shows him playing with their kids.

545
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 2: Back in December was their four year anniversary, and he

546
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 2: had this whole reel where he put together these roses

547
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 2: and blew up balloons and everything to surprise her on

548
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 2: their four year anniversary. And I watched it and I

549
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 2: got kind of an ick from it because it was

550
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 2: so performative. It was way more. It didn't come across

551
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 2: as authentic.

552
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: At all, welcome to social media.

553
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 2: It came across as so performative, like, look at what

554
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 2: a wonderful husband I was. And so often when somebody

555
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 2: feels the need to show how wonderful of a husband

556
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 2: they are, or how wonderful of a father.

557
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 1: They are over compensating.

558
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,239
Speaker 2: They're overcompensating for something. So for some reason, Travis has

559
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,479
Speaker 2: always given me like, eh, I just he comes across

560
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 2: as a like a Hillsong mega church Christian that maybe

561
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 2: is not so biblically based and more performative and more

562
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 2: you know. I don't know, there's just there's a type

563
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: I know where I don't quite believe it. And so anyway,

564
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: turns out she got pregnant with their third child, and

565
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: they announced the pregnancy and all of that, and then

566
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 2: she announces that she has miscarried and lost the baby

567
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: in January. The very next day, he announces on his

568
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 2: social media that he had an affair.

569
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 1: Well, hold on, before we can get to that point,

570
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: didn't he put out some kind of a video notification

571
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: that they were going to stop.

572
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I showed you that. It was right before

573
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 2: we left for Hawaii. They put out a video saying,

574
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: this is our last video ever, not clickbait.

575
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: We're quitting the channel. We're going with this, And I've watched.

576
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 2: Quite a few of her things, so I clicked on it.

577
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: I'm like not a very detailed explanation. From what I remember,

578
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: it's just thank you for being here. We're good, We're

579
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: done with this for now, we're going to focus on family.

580
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: I thought it was weird because she worked so hard

581
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 2: to build her Instagram and her TikTok and her YouTube,

582
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 2: and the YouTube was really just starting to take off,

583
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, they're just.

584
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: Out, doesn't that up?

585
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 2: And they said that it was because he was doing

586
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 2: nursing school and it was just too much to balance.

587
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: But it still it didn't pass the smell test for me.

588
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 2: But she looked happy and fine and whatever. And I

589
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 2: don't think when they did the video that she was

590
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 2: aware that he was having an affair and he wanted

591
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 2: to end the channel. This is just my assumption, but

592
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 2: he wanted to end the channel in preparation for confessing

593
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 2: that he was having.

594
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: To creatively put an end to everything, knowing that there

595
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: was some heavy criticism that was about to come his way.

596
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 2: Right, and that they wouldn't be able to balance everything.

597
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: So how does all of this come to light?

598
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 2: So it all comes to light the day after she

599
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 2: has this the next day, the next day, which further

600
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: tells me he was either being blackmailed by the other girl,

601
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 2: or something happened during the miscarriage that brought it to light.

602
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 2: Some people were saying that, I don't know, I don't

603
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 2: want to spread rumors, but this was a speculator that

604
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 2: something had come to light that maybe either caused a miscarriage,

605
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 2: or during the miscarriage, the doctor maybe noticed something that

606
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: brought to light, like possibly with like an STD or

607
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: something like that that brought to light that he was

608
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: having an affair. This is all total speculation. May not

609
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 2: be the case. Maybe the girlfriends like tell her that's

610
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 2: a private matter. Yeah, so something happened that made him

611
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 2: confess publicly on Instagram via an Instagram story to the

612
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 2: world that he had cheated on her multiple times.

613
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: It's it's deeper than that. Even so, you said that

614
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: she she was putting out posts, but the fact that

615
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: he was working so hard and that she was so

616
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: appreciative to him because the nursing school was taking such

617
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: a toll that there were times where he had to

618
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: spend the night the night out of their home. And

619
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,239
Speaker 1: it turns out that I mean common sense toopeless too.

620
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,239
Speaker 1: You know, I think the any logical finding would be

621
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: that he wasn't going home because he was cheating on her. Yeah.

622
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, So she put out a reel that she was

623
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 2: making a miss favorite dinner because he was a nursing

624
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: school and he was working so hard. So she put

625
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 2: together this whole dinner and she made the house of

626
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: all cute and clean, and got the kids all dressed up,

627
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 2: and they were all excited because Daddy was coming home

628
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 2: that night. And she said, he's been working so hard

629
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 2: that he's been staying out really late at night, and

630
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: some nights he doesn't even come home so he doesn't

631
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 2: disturb us, working so hard, and we're so proud of

632
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 2: him and we love him so much. Really, he was

633
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: out there having an affair with I wonder what that.

634
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: Did to him in a moment.

635
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: I don't know.

636
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it didn't bring him back home.

637
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 2: It didn't bring him back home because that was posted

638
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 2: a month before he ended the affair.

639
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: So okay, now, the subsequent fallout is a part of

640
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: this that you and I find absolutely crazy, And I'd

641
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: love to hear everyone's take out there are we the

642
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: ones that are being unreasonable because the people chiming in

643
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: to the both of them.

644
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 2: Well, okay, so to back it up a little bit,

645
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 2: he said that he publicly wanted to confess because he

646
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 2: felt like he needed that shame and everything to come

647
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 2: on him. But me as a woman, looks at a

648
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 2: public confession as a humiliation for her. If if you,

649
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 2: I don't even want to use you as an example. Okay,

650
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: if a husband goes publicly and says I had an

651
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 2: affair multiple times and I'm humiliated and I cheated on

652
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 2: my wife and all this stuff publicly on social media,

653
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: that embarrasses your wife further, the proper way of handling

654
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 2: that would be to shut down both accounts temporarily and

655
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: deal with your marriage. Deal with your marriage. You don't

656
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 2: owe the public and explanation of what was going on.

657
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: And so this is one of my questions to you,

658
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: is that has he now spun this into content?

659
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 2: He is fun into content. But she kind of has to.

660
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 2: But I think she kind of is a force to

661
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 2: because she has to address she's being reactive. So I

662
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: don't blame her at all. And she's trying to go

663
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 2: to therapy and she's trying to do all these things.

664
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: She's still posting reels. This is how she makes a living.

665
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 2: And whether or not. He's still living in the home.

666
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 2: I don't know. She's not showing him on the content,

667
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 2: but it sounds like they're trying to work their marriage out,

668
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: which I don't criticize. It's her decision.

669
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: Again, this is her decision to make everybody else. It's

670
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: unfortunate to me that this has gone and become public

671
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: because it's completely unnecessary and it's going to do nothing

672
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: but cause additional harm.

673
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 2: Right, I personally think Travis Clark's a little weasel. He

674
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: cheated on a beautiful wife after four years. You couldn't

675
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 2: keep together for four years? Like, what is wrong with you?

676
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 2: You're coming home to this beautiful wife, you have two

677
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 2: gorgeous children, the woman's pregnant with baby number three, and

678
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 2: you're out there skirting around with somebody from your class.

679
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 2: Apparently it was somebody that he was a nursing school

680
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 2: with who had been to their home multiple times. As

681
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 2: you know, this is my friend and my classmate, and

682
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: they had a Christmas party that apparently this woman attended

683
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 2: on Earth. So I mean, just ultimate betrayal. You're gonna

684
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: have the girlfriend and the life in the same place.

685
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: And it turns out that he is the hero and

686
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: she is the villain it.

687
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: Appears that way, or at least she can come out

688
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 2: the hero as long as she does what she's supposed

689
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 2: to do, which is to forgive, forget, to move on,

690
00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 2: and this man gets to just be redeemed. And when

691
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 2: I read the comments, I go crazy because it's not hey,

692
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 2: this you know, Hey Katie, this is your decision. I

693
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 2: hope that you do what's right for you. There are

694
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 2: a few people saying I hope you do what's right

695
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 2: for you, but those people are being attacked.

696
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: They're in the minor right now.

697
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 2: If Katie wants to forgive Travis, that is one hundred

698
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 2: percent her decision and God will honor that. And I

699
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 2: hope that their marriage can recover and all of that,

700
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 2: especially because the children seem to adore him.

701
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: You mentioned it. The religious components of this is what

702
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: makes it really interesting. And part of the reason how

703
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: we struggle so much with church teachings is because this

704
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 1: seems very cut and dry to me. Yeah, she has

705
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: like this is her prerogative. She can do whatever it

706
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: is that she wants. If she decides to leave the

707
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: marriage and relationship, so be it. It's on him. She

708
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: did nothing again, she's she's acting in response to what

709
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: it is that he did. It's this is just crazy

710
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: to me. Read some of these comments on your phone there.

711
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 2: So the part that bother me is, and I've heard

712
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: this in churches that I've attended and in youth groups

713
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 2: that our kids have gone to, where they've come back

714
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 2: and asked us like, hey, words, if your husband cheats

715
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 2: on you, you cannot leave them. You must forgive them. The

716
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 2: only recourse is to pray for them and to remain

717
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 2: faithful and to continue honoring your husband. And that really

718
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,240
Speaker 2: annoys me because it's not biblically based. This is something

719
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 2: that religion and modern Christianity and a lot of not

720
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,439
Speaker 2: all churches, but a lot of churches say, but it's

721
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 2: not biblically based because in the Bible it says in Matthew.

722
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: I think Matthew nine literally explains that if you get

723
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 2: divorced for no cause and you or you know, the

724
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 2: guy's not fulfilling you or the girl's not fulfilling you,

725
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 2: you're not communicating, or whatever, then you remarry that you

726
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 2: are then committing adultery because you're still married. In the

727
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 2: eyes of God. There's one covenant, right and though there's

728
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 2: two exceptions. One is if you marry a non believer,

729
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 2: in the non believer leaves, the believer is not supposed

730
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 2: to leave the non believer because you're still in this

731
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 2: marriage covenant. But if the non believer leaves, then Paul

732
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: tells us let it be, and God wants peace for you.

733
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 2: And that's all in First Corinthians. Now in Mackie is

734
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 2: in the case of adultery, if one person commits physical adultery,

735
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 2: and that's I mean, I don't think that necessarily, like

736
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 2: you could go like, oh, there's been emotional adultery and

737
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 2: things like that. I don't know about all that. The

738
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 2: physical adultery. The marriage covenant has been broken. Now, that

739
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you have to get divorced and that

740
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 2: you're no longer married, but you are allowed to get divorced,

741
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: and then in that case you are also allowed to

742
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 2: get remarried. And it's not considered adultery according to God.

743
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 2: I mean, when you look at the nature of God, yes,

744
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 2: he is forgiving and he does offer grace. However, God

745
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 2: is all so a jealous Scott God also is I

746
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: mean he created marriage as a model of the way

747
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 2: that Christ loves the church, and you're not to go

748
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:12,879
Speaker 2: out and have a bunch of other gods. You're only

749
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,280
Speaker 2: to have one god. You're only to have one husband

750
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 2: and one wife. And if you commit adultery on that person,

751
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 2: they are allowed biblically to file for divorce and leave.

752
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: They are not forced to stay in the marriage.

753
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: Not the response and reaction as she's getting.

754
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 2: It, but not the response and reaction that she's getting such.

755
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: Is one thing. The part that bothers me even more, again,

756
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: if you can pull those comments, is just the fact.

757
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 2: That the way that he's being celebrated.

758
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: This is but the manipulation that he's carrying out flat out.

759
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: I don't know how else to phrase it. It's just

760
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: straight up emotional and mental manipulation. The things that he's

761
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: doing are like this guy does. If this is my daughter,

762
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine what my reaction would be. I would

763
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: lose it on his Yeah sorry, dude.

764
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, So his very last post, he's sitting in the grass.

765
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 2: He has arranged pictures in a very performative way. Their

766
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: wedding picture, picture of the children, He's holding a picture

767
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 2: of him and her, and he has a new tattoo

768
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 2: on his risk Katie, so so much pressure on Katie.

769
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 2: She's trying to make a decision. Do I want to

770
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 2: forgive this man? Do I want to you know? She said,

771
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: I'm trying to make a choice what's best for me

772
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 2: and the children. You know.

773
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: My response to that would have been, hey, homeboy, you

774
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: certainly didn't have this photo montage in mind when you

775
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: were spending the night at somebody else's house, right, maybe

776
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: you should have because the betrayal in this case, it's

777
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: not just her, it is their entire family. Can do

778
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: this just to your wife, you betrayed your children, your family.

779
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: It's it's like, oh, it gets me so fired.

780
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 2: I'm really this Kim tattooing Katie on his wrist, to

781
00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 2: me was the ultimate form of manipulation, of mental manipulation,

782
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 2: because he's like, look at how serious I am. I

783
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 2: have permanently put your name on my wrisk and so yeah.

784
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:14,439
Speaker 2: And so for her, she's going to, whether people think

785
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: so or not, she's going to feel added pressure to

786
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: forgive this man because he's publicly making this beautiful post

787
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 2: of their wedding picture and with the caption I've been

788
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 2: sitting in what I did for a couple of months now,

789
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 2: and I feel so much inside, but it's hard to

790
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: find the right words. At the end of last year,

791
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 2: I made decisions that I deeply regret, and I'm disappointed

792
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 2: on where to go of I'm disappointed, ashamed, honestly humbled,

793
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 2: a lot of hard work, therapy, time with God, blah

794
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 2: blah blah. Okay, So that's all I would read it.

795
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 2: When you make public statements like this, you're garnering support

796
00:39:55,320 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 2: for yourself hard he's working, he has asked for forgiveness

797
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 2: from you and from God, and he's sorry. So now,

798
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 2: if she makes the decision, which I don't think she will,

799
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,720
Speaker 2: but if she makes the decision to get a divorce

800
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 2: and to move on with her life because she's young

801
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 2: and there was betrayal and she doesn't think she can

802
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 2: move past it, which she is not biblically bound to do,

803
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,240
Speaker 2: she will come out the villain in the situation because

804
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 2: look at how sorry he was. She tattooed your name.

805
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 2: He's sorry. He's sitting there with his white sneakers and

806
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 2: your wedding pictures and he's really sorry, and you couldn't

807
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 2: forgive him.

808
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: You didn't care at the time.

809
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 2: Did you write and so the comments are, you know,

810
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 2: God offers grace and she needs to offer grace. They're

811
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 2: confusing Katie with Jesus. Jesus offers grace, and yes, we

812
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 2: are to forgive, but that doesn't mean you can forgive somebody.

813
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:50,919
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean that you need to take him back.

814
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 2: You can forgive things in your life that hurt you

815
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: from people who hurt you, but that doesn't mean that

816
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 2: you need to continue on with the relationlationship.

817
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: And like you pointed out, that forgiveness is not for

818
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: the sake of the person that hurt you. Offering that

819
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,760
Speaker 1: forgiveness is for you to find peace.

820
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: Yes, now, again, the decision is Katie's and Katie's alone.

821
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: That the internet is chiming in by the tens of thousands,

822
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 2: tens of.

823
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: Thousands examples because nuts.

824
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 2: So on his post, there's so many. I'm so proud

825
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 2: of you, guys. I fully proud of you. Brother with

826
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:34,919
Speaker 2: you know sunset, hard hands, walk in obedience. No matter

827
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 2: the situation it turns, you will know you'll be honored

828
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 2: through God praying for you, bro. One person wrote, run Katie, run,

829
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 2: and then people just jumped on that person. How dare you?

830
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 2: And then somebody else wrote the only way through is through,

831
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 2: and then somebody else responded, no, sometimes the way through

832
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 2: is out, and then people jumped on that person. Nope,

833
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: you obviously don't know your Bible.

834
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: What is going on.

835
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 2: It's it's it's not biblically based to force a woman

836
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 2: to stay in a marriage after adultery.

837
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 1: Conversely, what are her comments?

838
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 2: So her comments are way more critical than his comments.

839
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 2: So she's going on a four day retreat for her

840
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 2: mental health. So this woman is clearly tortured right now,

841
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 2: trying to make it. Yeah, exactly, all of this is

842
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 2: playing out in public. You're humiliated, You have all this pressure,

843
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: you have people telling you that the only Biblical way,

844
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 2: the only Christian way of dealing with this, is to

845
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 2: forgive this man. Basically, you have to or you're not

846
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 2: a good Christian. You're not a good wife, you're not

847
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 2: a good mother. Why don't do this to your children

848
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 2: kind of comments?

849
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: How was that the Christian thing to do?

850
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 2: She's being criticized for going on a retreat, and then

851
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 2: she's packing her clothes, she's showing a packing thing. I

852
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 2: think it was an integration or something like that, a

853
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 2: brand integration. And then she's like, I'm going to pack

854
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 2: this clothes because there's some yoga at the retreat. There's

855
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 2: also equine therapy, so there's horse riding and there's some

856
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,720
Speaker 2: yoga like stretching. People jumped on her for the yoga,

857
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 2: telling her that if you participate in yoga, that is

858
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 2: demonic and that's probably why you did it.

859
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: But cheating, she's.

860
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 2: Demonic, so that's probably why he cheated on her. And so, Katie,

861
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 2: I understand what you're doing here, but the fact that

862
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 2: you're doing yoga. They're criticizing this woman because she mentioned

863
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 2: there's yoga. There's a therapy resort that she's now forced.

864
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: You told me. There were people that are like, why

865
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: aren't you taking your husband with you?

866
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 2: Is yours?

867
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 4: You need to bring your husband, the person causing you

868
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 4: the mental anguish that is causing that is leading to

869
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 4: you feeling it necessary to go on some kind of retreat.

870
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: With you.

871
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, how dares she go and try to figure out

872
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 2: her own mental state and what she needs in her life.

873
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,439
Speaker 2: She should be taking her husband, You should be chaperoning her.

874
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: To this again, It makes total sense.

875
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I just feel really bad for her because

876
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 2: she's not truly making a choice for herself. I would

877
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 2: have loved to see them both step away from social media,

878
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 2: not post the public affair if it came out in

879
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 2: the news, on in them news. Guess what, We're not

880
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 2: answering our phone. We're not reading dms, we're not reading comments.

881
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 2: We're dealing with this in house, privately, so that I

882
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,760
Speaker 2: can make an informed decision for me and my children.

883
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 2: There are films that entertain you, and then there are

884
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885
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886
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887
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888
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889
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890
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:33,520
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891
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892
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893
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894
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895
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899
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921
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930
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,839
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931
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: totally agree with you. I don't like that it like

932
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 1: stuff like this just becomes fodder for the viewing public.

933
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,919
Speaker 1: Like it's it's nobody else's business in the house. Don't

934
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: float this out there. You don't you owe nobody an explanation.

935
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: You don't have to make some public announcement. It's it's

936
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: just it's a fine example of one of the many

937
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,720
Speaker 1: things that bothers me so much about integrating, like family

938
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: families period.

939
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a hard decision. I hard decision if you

940
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 2: didn't have children, it's not a hard decision at all.

941
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 2: Out all your young and beautiful.

942
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: She knew whatever she wants. Like we said before, it's

943
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,240
Speaker 1: her decision to make. It's incredibly unfortunate that it happened

944
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: to begin with, but now taking like this entire situation

945
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: and making her twice the victim by with like using

946
00:46:56,239 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: social media to garner leverage actual little notice the case

947
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: of mental manipulation and manipulation.

948
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, some people see it that way, but I see

949
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 2: it as like this man is just such a little weasel.

950
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 2: He's such a performative little weasel.

951
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: That'd be my opinion as well. I got zero respect

952
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: for men to do this kind of craft dude kind

953
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: of crap like or women. It doesn't Matter's stuff that

954
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 1: I'm sensitive too because of how the you know, just

955
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: what it is that I experienced growing up, and like

956
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: you know, there have been people along the way. There

957
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 1: have even been men along the way that I've like

958
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: deferend it, that have gotten themselves involved in stuff like this,

959
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: and I've just repelled them. I do it. I want

960
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: nothing to do with that, right nothing at all. Yeah,

961
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a recipe from misery and it

962
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:36,240
Speaker 1: always ends horribly.

963
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 2: Well, and people say, well, they have children, so then

964
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 2: they have to piece back together because the children adore him,

965
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 2: So we have reels of them playing and everything, But

966
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 2: we also had reels of him currently having an affair,

967
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 2: decorating the entire house to celebrate their anniversary with a

968
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 2: very performative little caption about how lucky he is and

969
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: she's his best the best friend, and he'll love her

970
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 2: forever and all this stuff, while he's currently sleeping with

971
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 2: somebody else. So we don't know anything about the way

972
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 2: that this man fathers. We do know that he wasn't

973
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 2: coming home at night because he was sleeping with their girlfriend.

974
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: It's you're a liar. You're a liar, and you're you're

975
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: unfaithful and you're untrustworthy.

976
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 2: Are you beyond redemption?

977
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: No, I don't know.

978
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 2: It depends on where your heart is.

979
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: Everyone is capable of redemption. You made a horrible, awful

980
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 1: mistake and victimize your wife and your kids in the process.

981
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 4: And now are continuing to do so, and you're continue

982
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 4: You're still doing it like you're making the same mistake

983
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 4: repeatedly there.

984
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 1: It's one thing to make a horrible mistake and learn

985
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: from it and emerge a better person, which is what

986
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: we should all hope for for for anyone ourselves included.

987
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,439
Speaker 2: Like before you make like that, that is like, look

988
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 2: how sorry I am, and look at how much I

989
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 2: love my wife. How about before you permanently tattoo her

990
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 2: name on your wrist and then show it to the

991
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 2: entire world to garner sympathy. You see if she even

992
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 2: wants you back, and you give it a while, and

993
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 2: you prove over years, possibly over decades, that this woman

994
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: can trust you again privately, yes, privately, and let her

995
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 2: grieve and deal with this privately. You threw this affair

996
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 2: out into the public, and that's further victimizing her and

997
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 2: further humiliating.

998
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: And then for the people commenting on this again, shut it, yeah,

999
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: stay out of it.

1000
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 2: Let her decide. Don't tell her that she has to

1001
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 2: do this or she has to do that. This is

1002
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 2: for her to decide.

1003
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: You're entitled to your opinion, We're you're offering ours, and

1004
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: this is all again this isn't you know.

1005
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 2: Well, we're not saying whether or not she should stay

1006
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 2: or leave. I mean, if it were me, I'd probably

1007
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 2: be out.

1008
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: I'm saying she should do what she feels is best

1009
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: for herself and for her children.

1010
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying, I think for her children, and

1011
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 2: that's probably ultimately what she's thinking. Is this man a

1012
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 2: good father? So can I bear this burden for the

1013
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 2: sake of my children? And I feel torn on that

1014
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 2: one too, because if someone's a really, really good father,

1015
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 2: you don't want to remove the father from the home

1016
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 2: because we all know that that causes damage. She made

1017
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 2: the decision, but the children didn't, and it's ultimately the

1018
00:49:55,560 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 2: children who suffer. So I understand that mental But at

1019
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 2: the same time, they have a daughter, and what is

1020
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,760
Speaker 2: the message that you're giving your daughter That mom wasn't worthy,

1021
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,439
Speaker 2: that dad's a liar and a cheat. Also that if

1022
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 2: this happens to you, that you that are expected biblically

1023
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 2: to forgive, you have to. And so you have to

1024
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 2: think about what message does this give? Does it give

1025
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 2: the message off a strong woman? Because there can be

1026
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 2: strength and forgiveness, but there can also be strength and independence.

1027
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 2: So it depends on the situation. They know more about

1028
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 2: the situation than any of us ever could.

1029
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: For sure, And so my opinion, not that it matters,

1030
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: would be that that's a very passive approach if you're

1031
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 1: gonna take that person back like you are conveying a

1032
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: message to Yeah, especially if you have daughters of like, no,

1033
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: this is acceptable. These things happen, and I don't I

1034
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: don't ever want one of my kids to think that, Yeah,

1035
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: I think.

1036
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 2: A true mistake. I think true mistakes can happen in

1037
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 2: the heat of the moment, maybe under alcohol, maybe one time.

1038
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 2: You don't put it on going relationship while pretending to

1039
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 2: be a good husband, while making content about what I

1040
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 2: want to while releasing new Christian songs.

1041
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,959
Speaker 1: Tell me about this one and controversial take. Feel free

1042
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: to let me know what you think done in the comments.

1043
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,879
Speaker 1: Can men and women, especially if they're married, but even

1044
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: if they're just involved in a really long term relationship

1045
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 1: with a serious relationship, Can men and women have a

1046
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 1: platonic friendship with a member of the opposite sex? Is

1047
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: that something that you're comfortable with now? Because I am

1048
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 1: not comfortable with it.

1049
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 2: I don't think that. I think that there are very

1050
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 2: very rare instances, very rare, And because it is the exception,

1051
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 2: the big exception to the rule, because whenever a man

1052
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,280
Speaker 2: and a woman get along really well, they'll start seeing

1053
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 2: flaws in their spouse or in their boyfriends or girlfriends.

1054
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: You'll just start there.

1055
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 2: It'll be like, look at how fun this person is.

1056
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:45,720
Speaker 2: It's because you don't live.

1057
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: With that person. And I'm not saying, like, you know,

1058
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: like you don't have a casual conversation like you you

1059
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 1: have long term male friends, one that we're dealing with

1060
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: right now, Like I don't like something that doesn't bother me.

1061
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:54,879
Speaker 1: You had other people in social media.

1062
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 2: I'm not going and hanging out with the right it

1063
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 2: was like.

1064
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: Oh, hey, have a good day at work, honey, I'm

1065
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 1: gonna go hang out with Bob.

1066
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 3: For I'd be like, oh, oh yeah, And I would

1067
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 3: expect the same on you, Like for you to place

1068
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 3: those same expectations upon me, I would never consider to

1069
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 3: be unreasonable.

1070
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,720
Speaker 2: If you were like, Hey, this girl that I knew

1071
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 2: from Hawaii is in town. You're going to go get

1072
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 2: lunch with her. That's funny because that No.

1073
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: You don't play with fire, No you don't. You don't

1074
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: do yourself in these situations. And that's why I'm saying, like,

1075
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: for you to be like, I understand, like, mistakes can happen. Yeah,

1076
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: they can, but that's why you avoid those situations, right,

1077
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 1: you know, for.

1078
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,800
Speaker 2: Yourself those situation And then if the mistake does happen,

1079
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,279
Speaker 2: there's a mistake. Is you tripped and you fell, you know,

1080
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 2: but you fell in it. But it's kind of like

1081
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 2: with kids if they drop something and they shatter it

1082
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 2: and it breaks, like, ah, that was a mistake, that

1083
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 2: was an accident. But if they continually break things on

1084
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,839
Speaker 2: purpose and they make the choice, just like they break

1085
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 2: a window with a baseball, and then they grab the

1086
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 2: baseball and they go, that was fun. I'm gonna throw

1087
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 2: it and break out all the other windows. And then

1088
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 2: they try to say it was a mistake. It's not

1089
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 2: a mistake, that was a conscious decision.

1090
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 1: Weird analogy, but I get your parint. I mean, it's

1091
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: just I don't know. Again, I'm sentive to do situations.

1092
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: Let us know what you think down in the comments below.

1093
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: For one, can men and women be friends? Seriously? Blown

1094
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 1: it out there. I'm sure many of you have had

1095
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,439
Speaker 1: a platonic relationship with a member of the opposite sex

1096
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 1: while involved in a serious.

1097
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 2: Can there be true redemption in a marriage where somebody

1098
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 2: has betrayed the trust with an ongoing relationship. I'm not

1099
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 2: talking about on one night stant I'm talking about somebody

1100
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 2: had a relationship. Can there ever be true trust again?

1101
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 2: And or is that just a burden that the person

1102
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 2: who forgave bears forever? You know, Like I've made the decision,

1103
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 2: but as somebody, I haven't been cheated on, but I'm

1104
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 2: sure we have people in our audience that have been

1105
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 2: cheated on and have forgiven. Do you carry that burden forever?

1106
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 2: Or or can you actually? Is our true redemption to

1107
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 2: be found found?

1108
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: But I mean, that's that's a scarring traumatic.

1109
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 2: Can it ever be what it was before?

1110
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 1: I would argue it cannot be? Personally, that's me Lest

1111
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,359
Speaker 1: you guys think down in the common section, we're gonna

1112
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: find this one down. The kids are supposed to be

1113
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 1: coming home right now. Again.

1114
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 2: I've been listening, literally, I've been listening for the grave

1115
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 2: we have asphole. Now see the gravel used to go

1116
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 2: IFDA has a quiet car. So I'm hoping they're home now,

1117
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 2: but I hope they.

1118
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: Make it back safely. On all the ducklings back properly,

1119
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: all right? Anyway, you guys, say care, Thank you for

1120
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: being here once again, love and appreciate you. We will

1121
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 1: see you next week.

1122
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:31,279
Speaker 2: Yep, we'll be here next week.

1123
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 1: We'll see you here on the New World Post Whole podcast.

1124
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 1: You guys, take care,