1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 2: You're off the hook as a human being on this planet. 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 2: You're not powerful enough to cause this or not cause it. 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: Are you going to show up. 5 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 2: In a supportive, healthy way? Sometimes absolutely? Are you going 6 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 2: to say or do the wrong thing? Sometimes yes, absolutely? 7 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 2: But this isn't your world, This is God's, and He 8 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 2: is in control. 9 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 3: Welcome to the Faith of a Fear podcast, where we 10 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 3: share powerful truth to quiet anxiety and big and small. 11 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 3: I'm your host, Carol McCracken. Now, imagine loving somebody who 12 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 3: is finally in recovery, but every day still feels like 13 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 3: you're holding your breath. You want to trust them, you 14 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 3: want to believe that healing is real, but part of 15 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 3: you is still waiting for that phone call, the relapse 16 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 3: in my mom when everything falls apart again. So you 17 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 3: start monitoring your words. Should I ask questions? Should I 18 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 3: stay quiet? 19 00:00:53,159 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 4: Am I supporting them or accidentally enabling them? 20 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 3: Loving someone in recovery can leave families feeling exhausted, confused, 21 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 3: and afraid of doing the wrong thing. But today we're 22 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 3: going to talk about how love can move beyond fear 23 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 3: and how God can bring hope even into the most 24 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,479 Speaker 3: broken places. So today we're naming the lie that many 25 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 3: people carry. That lie is if I say the right thing, 26 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 3: do the right thing, or watch closely enough, I can 27 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 3: prevent relapse. But scripture reminds us of a deeper truth. 28 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 3: God never asked us to control someone else's recovery. He 29 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 3: asked us to walk in love, in wisdom and trust 30 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 3: him with healing. We have the perfect guest for this today, 31 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 3: Caroline Beidler, and she's written something that I took a 32 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 3: lot from, called when you Love someone in Recovery, and 33 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 3: it really helps people transform fear into understanding. Hi, Caroline, 34 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 3: thanks for joining us today. 35 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm just 36 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: delighted to be here. 37 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 3: Well, for many people listening, recovery is confusing territory. How 38 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 3: did you come to write about it? 39 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: Yeah? 40 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: Absolutely, Well, there was a question that one of my 41 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 2: kiddos asked a couple years ago. 42 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: And I have twins, so I think my son was about. 43 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 2: Three years old and I was headed out to our 44 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: church's recovery meeting on a Wednesday night and about out 45 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 2: the door, and he looked at me and said, Mommy, 46 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: what's recovery? 47 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: And we talked about a little bit. 48 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 2: He knew I went to meetings, but there'd be in 49 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 2: three year old kiddos. 50 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: They didn't know. 51 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 2: But that moment when he asked me that question, it 52 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 2: was like my heart fluttered a bit and something in 53 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: me I realized, like, we need to understand not just 54 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 2: those of us in recovery, but our families too, our kids, 55 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 2: our spouses, our neighbors, you know, our pastors, our bosses. 56 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 2: We all need to understand what recovery is because when 57 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 2: we understand the fullness of the journey that it's about 58 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 2: more than sobriety, we can truly walk alongside someone in 59 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 2: a way that I believe God wants us to and 60 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: that Scripture certainly points to. So I was moved because 61 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 2: of my own experience and not just the question my 62 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 2: son asked, but my husband's questions and wondering when we 63 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 2: first met, is this gonna work? Wait, she's in recovery, 64 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: Like what does this mean? And then several decades before that, 65 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 2: when I was a teenager and struggling with severe drug 66 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: and alcohol use and that developed into an addiction, and 67 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 2: my parents were at a loss. 68 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: They had no idea what to do, They had no 69 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: idea what. 70 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:38,119 Speaker 2: Substance use disorder was doing to my brain, my body, spirit, emotions, 71 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: and they certainly had no clue what I was working 72 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: towards in treatment, which was recovery. But over time, through 73 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: my experience and walking this road for many years, my 74 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: own family has discovered it, and I've been blessed with 75 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 2: the opportunity to work with so many families and other 76 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 2: loved ones to walk alongside the people that they care about. 77 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 2: For this book, I did so many interviews, and I 78 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 2: get emotional thinking about it. So many mothers who have 79 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 2: spent so many sleepless nights wondering, waiting. Am I saying 80 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 2: the right thing? Am I praying enough? Am I doing this? 81 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: Am I harming them? Am I helping? There are evidence 82 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 2: based ways that we can help. There are ways that 83 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: God points to in scripture that we can choose love. 84 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 2: There are ways that we can connect and community that 85 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 2: can help us love those people in our lives that 86 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 2: might be let's be honest, tough to love. There are 87 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 2: ways that we can bring our community around us to 88 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 2: help us do that when it's hard. I'm passionate about 89 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 2: recovery because of the journey I have been on and 90 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 2: the way the Lord has worked in my heart through this, 91 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 2: how I've seen people change the light come back on 92 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: in the eyes. 93 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: It's an amazing, beautiful thing. 94 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: I like to say, I wish everyone were in recovery 95 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: because it's incredible. 96 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 3: Addiction impacts nearly every family, and there's an emotional toil 97 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 3: on loved ones. What did you notice most about families 98 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 3: struggling with when they tried to support somebody in recovery. 99 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is really interesting. 100 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 2: Saying a couple things through my research, interviews and working 101 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 2: with families that I've discovered. 102 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: The first being stigma. 103 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: A lot of research has been focused on those of 104 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 2: us who struggle with substance use disorder. There's a lot 105 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 2: of research that shows that we are stigmatized. We experience 106 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 2: this other ring, sometimes even discrimination. 107 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:19,239 Speaker 1: We're looked at as different. 108 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 2: I like to look at it as almost this idea 109 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: of a modern day leprosy. 110 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: We're kind of put over there. People don't want to 111 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: touch us, look at us. 112 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 2: What I learned is that family members experience that same 113 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 2: level of stigma, if not to a greater degree, because 114 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 2: they are connected to their loved one. And so when 115 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: families walking into their churches there are places of faith, 116 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 2: their communities feel so much shame about talking about what's 117 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: going on in their family because of that stigma. If 118 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 2: their son is struggling with addiction, something must be wrong 119 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 2: with them, you know, they must not have parented right, 120 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 2: or they must not have X, Y or Z. Families 121 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 2: carry so much guilt and shame, and I believe that 122 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 2: we are in a season, Carol, where God is calling 123 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 2: all of us, including affected family members, to put the 124 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 2: weight down, to not carry it anymore. 125 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: We don't need to feel that stigma because what's. 126 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 2: Truly going to help us and ultimately our loved one 127 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 2: is being honest about our situation and getting the support 128 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 2: that we need. I work for recovery dot Com. We 129 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 2: are all about connecting people with treatment. But one of 130 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 2: the things that has been really harmful in the past, 131 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 2: that has perpetuated in certain types of addiction treatment is 132 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 2: this idea that enabling the idea that showing what's been 133 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 2: termed tough love, even the concept of codependency, These terms 134 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: have been almost weaponized against families. 135 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: It adds to that weight that families are carrying. 136 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 2: So not only are we struggling and having sleepless nights 137 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: because our loved one might be out on the streets 138 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 2: using substances, and we're so terrified for what's next for them. 139 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: We're also carrying the weight of well, if I answer 140 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 2: the call, am I enabling them? Am I being codependent? 141 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 2: Do I draw this line? Can they stay in my house? 142 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 2: I feel like we need to set those labels aside 143 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 2: and really look to God's word. What is he calling 144 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: us to do when we are supposed to show up 145 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: in love? And there's ways that He shows us in 146 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 2: Scripture to do that. One of the stories I always 147 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 2: go back to is the prodigal Son. Yeah, of how 148 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: while he was still a long way off, his father 149 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: saw him and was filled with compassion for him, and. 150 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: He ran to his son. 151 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 2: And there were so many people in my life who 152 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 2: showed up for me and loved me while I was 153 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 2: still a very long way off. They didn't wait for 154 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 2: me to hit rock bottom, They didn't wait for me 155 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 2: to fulfill X, Y or Z condition. 156 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: They showed up. 157 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 2: They met me before I even started running to them. 158 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: Just like God, we need to look more towards what 159 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 2: God is telling us in terms of how to show 160 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: up for our loved ones. 161 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 3: That's beautiful, that really is Will you say in recovery, 162 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 3: that it's so much more than just about sobriety. That's 163 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 3: something we all strive for. How would you describe recovery 164 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 3: in the fullest sense? 165 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 2: Thank you for asking that, because so many of us 166 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 2: and I I'm raising my hand, have gotten this wrong 167 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: over the years, which is thinking that recovery is about sobriety. No, 168 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 2: we may be familiar with and thanks to social media 169 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 2: for this, but things like sober October and dry January 170 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 2: and sober Curious and I love all of those things. 171 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: But what that those things. 172 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: Are missing, I think, is this idea that recovery is 173 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: not just about stopping something. It's about becoming someone. It's 174 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: about stepping into what God has for us and who 175 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 2: God says we are, and it's about building a life 176 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 2: of purpose and passion and meaning. 177 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: And every time I look at my kiddos and now they're. 178 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: Seven, going to be eight soon, God gives us a 179 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 2: new life and recovery and through that process we learn 180 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,599 Speaker 2: how to live. When my son asked me, Mommy, what's recovery? 181 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 2: It really made me think about answering that question, like, 182 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 2: how do we explain what the journey is? Because it's 183 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 2: not just going to meetings and dark church basements when 184 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 2: saying Hi, I'm Caroline. 185 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: And I'm an alcoholic. 186 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 2: Although I have done that and for many years, that's 187 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 2: been helpful for so many people. But when we can 188 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 2: talk about the fullness of the journey, what it can 189 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: do is not only enlighten that for loved ones, so 190 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 2: they can understand what are we aiming for? And it 191 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 2: also opens things up and allows more space for people 192 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 2: to discover what am I even stopping using drugs and 193 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: alcohol for? What am I really doing this for. There's 194 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 2: a saying that many of us here early on in recovery, 195 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 2: and it was that we have to get sober for us. 196 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: If it's not for us, it's not going to work. 197 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: It has to be. 198 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 2: It has to be for us, not our kids, not 199 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: our jobs, not our spouses. 200 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: And I think there's a lot of harm in that statement. 201 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 2: I used to believe that, but I spent a couple 202 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 2: decades trying to get sober for me, and you know what, 203 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 2: I didn't value myself. I didn't see myself the way 204 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 2: God saw me. I carried so much shame and guilt, 205 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 2: not just because of my substance us, but because of 206 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 2: the trauma I had experienced sexual assault, and the list 207 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 2: goes on and on. 208 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: I wasn't going to get sober for me. I needed 209 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: something outside of myself, and God showed me that. 210 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 2: God moved through so many people in my life who 211 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 2: were able to show I mean, actually, your recovery is 212 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 2: not about stopping this over here. It's about learning, Caroline, 213 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 2: that your life has purpose and value and God has 214 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 2: a plan for you and it is so good and 215 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 2: your eyes better be open to see it and your 216 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 2: ears better be open to hear it because He's been 217 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 2: waiting for you to step into that and you might 218 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 2: be able to tell. I get real fired up about this, Carol, 219 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 2: because I'm so excited for people seeking recovery, for families 220 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 2: to understand there is so much more out there. And 221 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: when people in recovery understand their purpose and value and 222 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 2: they start to turn towards what. 223 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 1: God has for them, watch out. There are so. 224 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 2: Many of us out there doing doing God's work, building 225 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 2: God's kingdom, setting other people free, helping to be a witness. 226 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a beautiful thing. 227 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 3: I myself enjoy that. I enjoyed meeting you because I'm 228 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 3: fourteen years sober and I came up in a church base. 229 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're good places. 230 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 3: It did what it needed to do for me, but 231 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 3: there's so much more beyond the meetings, the purpose of 232 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,679 Speaker 3: it all. I work in a church and my ministry 233 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 3: is so much more effective because of what I have 234 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 3: been through. But I delight in meeting people like you 235 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 3: because it's like, oh, look there's another one of us. 236 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,599 Speaker 3: Look what we've done, but you do it differently than 237 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 3: the twelve step program that I took. You found that 238 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 3: there are four different principles hope, community, service, and wellness. 239 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 3: Do you maintain that all four are necessary for a 240 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 3: lasting recovery? Can you talk a little about that. 241 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: Absolutely? 242 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 2: And those four I can call them pillars are based 243 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 2: on research. I'd like to say it was just I 244 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 2: came up with these four things myself, but they're based 245 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: on research. And truly it is when we have hope 246 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 2: and when others hope for us, when we are focused 247 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 2: on our physical and mental health of course spiritual health 248 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 2: as well, but for that wellness piece, when we are 249 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 2: connected in community and then have purpose, when we have 250 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 2: ways that we can be of service, and oftentimes that 251 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: for for those of us in recovery who are believers. 252 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 2: When we're able to share and carry that message to 253 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 2: others and our testimonies, those four pillars, when that comes together, 254 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 2: that's really where God can move in incredible ways through 255 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 2: our recovery stories. I had a mentor early on who 256 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 2: told me that I used to have a hard time 257 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 2: celebrating my sobriety milestone because I'm like, oh, I don't 258 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 2: want to boast and I don't want to be prideful. 259 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: And she was like, now, look, it's not about us, 260 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 2: it's not about you, it's not about celebrating. It's about 261 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 2: that person listening to what you're saying. It's about that 262 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 2: person who can see through your story that recovery is 263 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,839 Speaker 2: possible and that they can have hope that their life 264 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 2: can change too. And so when we look at recovery 265 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 2: in this broader way, some incredible things can happen. And 266 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 2: the other piece of that kind of definition of recovery 267 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 2: and these four pillars is that we need to start 268 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 2: looking at it as we have different options along the journey. 269 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 2: A lot of research points to it different recovery pathways. 270 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 2: So we talk about twelve step, we talk about faith 271 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 2: based programs like Celebrate Recovery, not that twelve Step isn't 272 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 2: necessarily faith based. 273 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: That's a whole other conversation. 274 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 2: But there's all of these different options harm reduction, and 275 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 2: so in the book, try to give families information based 276 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 2: on the current research and what's out there about what 277 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 2: are some of the different roads or avenues that your 278 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 2: loved one can be on in different seasons That can 279 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 2: be helpful for many of us. We move through different pathways. 280 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 2: We might start in twelve Step and end up going 281 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 2: to celebrate recovery. When we can understand that, hopefully it 282 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 2: helps families feel more secure in the fact that just 283 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 2: because one way doesn't work doesn't mean that their loved 284 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 2: one isn't going to find recovery or isn't going to 285 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: be able to get there. And so along with looking 286 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: at the pillars, I try to demystify some of these 287 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 2: other areas of recovery as well. 288 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 3: What would you say to the parent or maybe a 289 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 3: spouse who secretly lies awake at night and thinks, did 290 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 3: I cause this? In some way? 291 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: Yeah? 292 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 2: I think we've probably all experienced that feeling some responsibility 293 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 2: mightbe I might be addiction, it might be something else 294 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 2: our loved ones going through did I say the right thing? 295 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 2: Did I do the wrong thing? If I would have 296 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 2: done X, Y, or and Z, maybe they wouldn't be 297 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 2: going on. Another mentor of mine said, you're not that powerful. 298 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 2: And when she told me that, I was like, oh, like, 299 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 2: what are you talking about? 300 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: That hurt a little bit. It wasn't a dick. 301 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 2: It was like, you're off the hook as a human 302 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 2: being on this planet. You're not powerful enough to cause 303 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 2: this or not cause it. Are you going to show 304 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 2: up in a supportive, healthy way? Sometimes absolutely? Are you 305 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 2: going to say or do the wrong thing? Sometimes yes, absolutely? 306 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 2: But this isn't your world. This is God's and he 307 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 2: is in control. Just like we can lay down some 308 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 2: of those terms that have been harmful, like enabling and 309 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 2: tough love, we can also try to set down some 310 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 2: of that weight that we carry in terms of like 311 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 2: our fault versus not, because some of those ideas are 312 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 2: distracted from being able to truly show up. 313 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: I mean, look what that's doing. 314 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 2: The mother who's awake all night worrying about her child. 315 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 2: My heartbreaks for that person and I have been there. 316 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 2: I'm an affected family member too, and it is heart wrenching. 317 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 2: But what freedom when we can say, Lord, I can't 318 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 2: carry this weight anymore. I need to lay this down. 319 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 2: Jesus says, his burden is life. We can connect ourselves 320 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 2: to God and we can carry this together. 321 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: We don't have to carry it ourselves. 322 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 2: And so if someone's listening and feeling weighed down by 323 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 2: guilt or like they did or said the wrong thing, 324 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 2: maybe they've lost someone to addiction. Which I felt like 325 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 2: I had to include information about grief in the book 326 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 2: because that can be a. 327 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: Part of the recovery story too. 328 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 2: And if we're carrying that weight, my encouragement is we 329 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 2: need to rely on each other and we need to 330 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 2: turn to God and start sending those burdens down. 331 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 3: Families often feel enormous pressure to prevent the relapse, and 332 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 3: I happen to know someone that's going through that right now. 333 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 3: A child moved in with the parent because they are 334 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 3: trying to recover from misbehaving and all sorts of things 335 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 3: from an addiction, and they're trying to rebuild their life. 336 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 3: But this parent is so afraid that the child's going 337 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 3: to go out and relapse again that he's enabling and 338 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 3: allowing behavior in doing anything so that this person won't 339 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 3: go out and relapse again. So I guess my question 340 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 3: is how does that kind of pressure shape the way 341 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 3: that they interact with their loved one in the addiction. 342 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 2: We have a lot of misconceptions and information that has 343 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 2: prevented us from seeing addiction and addiction recovery in the truth. 344 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 2: And truth is that relapse can be a part of 345 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: the journey the experience. And I think that's a really 346 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 2: hard thing to hear because we don't want our loved 347 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 2: ones to go back. We know what they're like using 348 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 2: substances and we don't want them to do that. I 349 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 2: have met people that stop using, get sober, find recovery, 350 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 2: and that's it. What we know from the research is 351 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 2: that between forty and sixty percent of people who are 352 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 2: in addiction recovery will experience a recurrence of use or 353 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 2: relapse forty to sixty percent. For substances like opioids or nicotine, 354 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 2: that can be upwards of eighty to ninety percent. Wow, 355 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 2: that's a lot of people. So we need to understand 356 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 2: first the neuroscience of addiction, what's happening to our brains. 357 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 2: When we understand the neuroscience and compare that with the 358 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 2: understanding that relapse is a significant part of what happens 359 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 2: for those of us in addiction recovery. 360 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:37,719 Speaker 1: I've experienced it. 361 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 2: I'm hoping that families can not just have more compassion 362 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 2: for what their loved ones are going through, but we 363 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 2: need to be prepared as a family. I've created a 364 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 2: family Recovery Planning Guide and it helps walk through a 365 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 2: relapse prevention strategy. Folks can find that on my website, 366 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,959 Speaker 2: Caroline Biler dot com. But we can be prepared as 367 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 2: a family on how to support if or when a 368 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 2: recurrence of use has and also understand that what this 369 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 2: percentage of people may experience. 370 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: This doesn't necessarily. 371 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 2: Mean our loved one will, but after one year, five years, 372 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 2: that percentage of recurrence of use goes dramatically down. 373 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 1: So the more that we. 374 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 2: Can support recovery in a way that's healthy and understand 375 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 2: the full picture all of those pillars, like we talked about, 376 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 2: greater the likelihood over time that our loved one's going 377 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 2: to keep walking that journey. So it is a real 378 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 2: concern for family, especially now with the substances that are 379 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 2: so fatal like fentanyl and xylazine and some of these 380 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 2: synthetic opiates that are so dangerous. It is very scary, 381 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 2: but families can be empowered by information by having a plan. 382 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 2: And then I always love to tell folks, if your 383 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 2: loved one is experiencing heroin addiction opioid addiction, having the 384 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 2: loaxone or narcan on hand, which is a medication that 385 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 2: helps prevent overdose fatality. Make sure your family is ready 386 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 2: and equipped. You're not going to enable them to use. 387 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 2: By having a medication on hand that could help in 388 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 2: the event of an overdose, You're going to be prepared. 389 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 2: And I've met so many people whose loved ones have 390 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 2: survived because they were prepared. And so just because someone 391 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 2: has a recurrence of use doesn't mean their stories over 392 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 2: you know, I think about other types of medical conditions, diabetes, 393 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 2: heart disease, even cancer. We can be in remission, but 394 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 2: sometimes there's a recurrence. And when that happens, what do 395 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 2: we need to do? We up the support. We can't 396 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 2: draw back in fear. That's what the enemy wants. He 397 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 2: wants us to be afraid. He wants us to draw back. 398 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 1: We can't draw back. We have to push in. 399 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 3: Love it you write that support doesn't mean enabling them. 400 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 3: How can a family recognize the difference. 401 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, that is the tough question. 402 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 2: I met a mother who experienced a really interesting situation 403 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 2: with her daughter where her daughter had had a recurrence 404 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 2: of use. 405 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: So the mother. 406 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 2: Decided, I'm not going to allow her to come back home, 407 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 2: to come in the house. 408 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: Maybe we can talk on the phone or so. 409 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 2: She had set these really firm boundaries in place, which 410 00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 2: I'm a huge believer in boundaries. 411 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: Boundaries are right. 412 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, she set these boundaries and her daughter continued to struggle, 413 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 2: and she finally decided, you know what, my daughter might 414 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 2: not make it, and I want to do what I 415 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 2: can live with as a mother. It was Thanksgiving and 416 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 2: she said she invited her daughter, she was still using 417 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 2: substances at that time, to Thanksgiving dinner, and she said, 418 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,439 Speaker 2: I have to do this. So her daughter came, she 419 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 2: was still using substances. They had the dinner, and it 420 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 2: was two weeks later that her daughter called and said, Mom, 421 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 2: I'm ready to get help again. And she's pin in 422 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 2: recovery ever since. Wow, that story is a beautiful picture 423 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 2: of trusting in love. 424 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: And she was like, I didn't know if I was 425 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: doing the right thing or not. I prayed about it, 426 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 1: and I was just like what can I live with? 427 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 1: And my mother's heart is telling me to just love 428 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:41,919 Speaker 1: on my child. 429 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 2: I didn't give her cash, but I invited her in 430 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 2: for a meal and I hugged her and I told 431 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 2: her that I loved her. And now I can't say 432 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 2: that this caused her to stop using and enter recovery, 433 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 2: but it does show that sometimes choosing love first, showing 434 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 2: up in these simple ways meeting basic needs. 435 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: Hunger shelter, will go a long way. 436 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 2: So instead of asking questions like am I enabling? Maybe 437 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 2: we need to start asking how can we show up 438 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 2: in love? What can we live with? When families are 439 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 2: asking those questions, it's important to reframe that a little 440 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,919 Speaker 2: and also to not make those decisions and isolation. We 441 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 2: need to invite our people into this experience. Talk to 442 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 2: your best friends, your small group at church, go to 443 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 2: your pastor, talk to your physician, ask for advice and counsels. 444 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 2: Like I've shared multiple times, well my sponsors said this 445 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 2: or my mentor said this. We don't do anything in 446 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 2: life alone, and that's not God's call for us, that's 447 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 2: not what he wants for us. And so bringing people 448 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 2: into that experience can really help us show up in 449 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 2: love in a different healthier way. 450 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 3: You mentioned boundaries and that you're a proponent of them. 451 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 3: Why do you think that one of the most compassionate 452 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 3: things that we can offer somebody in recovery. 453 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, in my book, I synthesize a lot of 454 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 2: research on boundaries. 455 00:21:58,440 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: There's a fabulous book. 456 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 2: Called Boundaries that I reference and look at different ways 457 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 2: that we can show up. 458 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: In love but set these limits. 459 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 2: And my family definitely not perfect, but when I was 460 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 2: struggling as a teenager in active addiction, my family showed 461 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 2: up in ways and set boundaries that were so loving 462 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 2: to me. 463 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: They wouldn't give me cash because they knew I would 464 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: probably go use that. 465 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 2: And buy substances, but what my dad would take me 466 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 2: grocery shopping. My mom especially would answer the phone when 467 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 2: I called, made sure that I had safe shelter. So 468 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 2: some of these things again leading with love, almost creating 469 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 2: a sense of safety when it was safe to do that, 470 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 2: and meeting basic needs. Even boundary setting is something that 471 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 2: we don't have to do alone, and making some of 472 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 2: those I had so many beautiful conversations with especially mothers 473 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 2: for research for this book. 474 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 1: But there was another mom. 475 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 2: Her name is Shelly that I met, and she said 476 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 2: that when her son was an addiction treatment, she was 477 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 2: part of a small group at her church at the time, 478 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 2: and there was another mother in that group who whose 479 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,479 Speaker 2: daughter was going through cancer treatment, and she said, it 480 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 2: was so heartbreaking because my son was in treatment and 481 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 2: my son was sick, but as a family, as a 482 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 2: woman who was a part of this church, she didn't 483 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 2: get the same type of love. She didn't get the 484 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 2: text messages and the flowers and the cast roles, and 485 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 2: while this other mother whose daughter had cancer did And 486 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 2: she said it was such a profound moment for her, 487 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 2: and she's an incredible advocate now doing amazing work supporting 488 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 2: other families. But what it really did was it just 489 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 2: it showed her how much this idea too of boundaries 490 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 2: needed to be reframed, and she needed to invite her 491 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 2: group into what she was going through. So she was like, yeah, 492 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 2: maybe she wanted to blame her friends for not showing 493 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,719 Speaker 2: up or being angry at them, but really what her 494 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 2: friends needed was more information. 495 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 1: How do we show up in love? How do we support? 496 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 2: And so that's a really important thing to keep in 497 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 2: mind too with these types of conversations is that we 498 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 2: don't need to take decisions alone and we can call 499 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 2: on our community to help too. 500 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 3: Isolation is what I did wrong, So I appreciate you 501 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 3: saying that community is so important. If someone is listening 502 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 3: today and they love a person in recovery and feel 503 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 3: overwhelmed or afraid, what is one mindset shift that can 504 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 3: help them walk towards more peace and more hope. 505 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. 506 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 2: Well, my heart goes out to anyone struggling through this, 507 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 2: and I just want to let folks know you might 508 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 2: hear this all the time. 509 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: You are not alone and there are options for support. 510 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 2: Mentioned earlier that I also work for recovery dot com, 511 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 2: which is a great option for treatment, mental health and addiction. 512 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 2: So if you are struggling as an affected family member, 513 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 2: you are not alone. That's the truth, and you can 514 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 2: look for options for support for yourself too. As a 515 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 2: mother too, I'm always about how my kids are doing, 516 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 2: how's my kids, how's making sure everybody's all right? 517 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 1: But it's important and. 518 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 2: God wants me to care for myself too, and so 519 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 2: make sure if you're struggling, you need support too, and 520 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 2: it's okay to ask for help. 521 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: You don't have to be the strong one. You don't 522 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: have to be the one who's saying and doing all 523 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:06,719 Speaker 1: the right things. 524 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 2: You can show up and say, you know what I 525 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 2: need help to And that is one of the best 526 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 2: things we can do to model healthy recovery for our 527 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 2: loved ones who might be struggling is to take care 528 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,479 Speaker 2: of ourselves. And so by asking for help, you are 529 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 2: showing your loved one. 530 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: It's okay to do that. 531 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 2: So that's what I would share, Carol, and I hope 532 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 2: folks pick up a copy of the book. I My 533 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 2: prayer for this book is that it deepens understanding for 534 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 2: families and effective loved ones of what addiction recovery is 535 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 2: and really empowers us all to be able to walk 536 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 2: alongside our loved one and understand that whether you're the 537 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 2: person in recovery or not, like your healing. 538 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: Matters too well. 539 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 3: This conversation reminds us that loving somebody in recovery can 540 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 3: be complicated, but it should didn't have to be helpless. 541 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,479 Speaker 3: Fear tells us that we must control the outcome, but 542 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 3: faith reminds us that God is still the healer of 543 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 3: broken places, just like you point out in your BOO 544 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 3: and if today's conversation encouraged you to share it with 545 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 3: somebody that might need it, and remember, fear may speak loudly, 546 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 3: but God's truth speaks louder. Thank you for joining us 547 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 3: on faith over fear, and until next time, may you 548 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 3: live as one who has been set free. And look 549 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 3: for all of Caroline's information in the show notes because 550 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 3: it's a great book.