1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,620 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,580 Speaker 2: God's timing is perfect, right? We all have different things 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:10,900 Speaker 2: that we need to learn and on a different timeline. 4 00:00:11,539 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 2: And so I say hold the journey lightly because who 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:17,900 Speaker 2: knows how long it's going to take, but who knows 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:19,420 Speaker 2: what you need to learn under that. 7 00:00:19,660 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 3: How many times have you heard me say this isn't 8 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 3: about alcohol? 9 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:23,980 Speaker 1: It's not. 10 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:28,460 Speaker 2: It's about all the reasons that we're drinking. Welcome to 11 00:00:28,500 --> 00:00:32,010 Speaker 2: Love Life Sober. I'm your host and your coach, Christy Osborne. 12 00:00:32,350 --> 00:00:35,050 Speaker 2: This podcast is for the woman who loves Jesus or 13 00:00:35,110 --> 00:00:37,730 Speaker 2: is longing to reconnect with him and who knows deep 14 00:00:37,770 --> 00:00:41,070 Speaker 2: down that alcohol is no longer serving her. Here we 15 00:00:41,110 --> 00:00:44,010 Speaker 2: talk honestly with grace and truth about how stepping away 16 00:00:44,030 --> 00:00:47,950 Speaker 2: from alcohol opens the door to the love, joy, peace, 17 00:00:48,050 --> 00:00:51,550 Speaker 2: and connection you've been searching for. Because babe, those things 18 00:00:51,580 --> 00:00:53,660 Speaker 2: were never meant to be found in a bottle of wine. 19 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,260 Speaker 2: They're found in Jesus. Through scripture, coaching, and neuroscience, I'll 20 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,810 Speaker 2: help you make sense of your habits, your nervous system, 21 00:01:01,190 --> 00:01:03,990 Speaker 2: and what you're really craving so that freedom feels not 22 00:01:04,050 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 2: only possible but sustainable. You don't have to do this alone, babe. 23 00:01:08,340 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 2: Let's dive in. Hello, my beautiful friend. Welcome back to 24 00:01:14,420 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 2: the podcast. This is the first episode in a series 25 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 2: of episodes that we are going to start doing here 26 00:01:21,300 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 2: where my dear, sweet, wonderful friend, Lauren, who was one 27 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 2: of my very first clients turned very dear friends, turns 28 00:01:32,250 --> 00:01:36,970 Speaker 2: the mic around on me. I absolutely love interviewing all 29 00:01:37,010 --> 00:01:40,929 Speaker 2: of the authors and experts and scientists and doctors on 30 00:01:40,950 --> 00:01:43,990 Speaker 2: this podcast, but I also want the opportunity to share 31 00:01:44,580 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 2: some of the things that I've learned and some of 32 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,580 Speaker 2: the things that I share in the community and with 33 00:01:49,620 --> 00:01:52,020 Speaker 2: my coaching clients. And so we're going to start doing 34 00:01:52,140 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 2: these interviews where Lauren, who not only is a wonderful, 35 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,890 Speaker 2: wonderful woman and mom, but an actual professional, incredible journalist, 36 00:02:02,390 --> 00:02:03,690 Speaker 2: is going to do some interviews. 37 00:02:03,950 --> 00:02:07,570 Speaker 3: So this is the first of that series. 38 00:02:07,850 --> 00:02:10,150 Speaker 2: We recorded this earlier in the year when I was 39 00:02:10,510 --> 00:02:15,180 Speaker 2: fresh off celebrating my sixth year of soberversary, or as 40 00:02:15,290 --> 00:02:18,619 Speaker 2: my little son, he's not little anymore, but Carter used 41 00:02:18,660 --> 00:02:22,540 Speaker 2: to say, soberberbery. This is all about what I learned 42 00:02:22,940 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: at six years alcohol-free. We talk about when it actually 43 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,150 Speaker 2: gets easier, what happens when life is really hard and 44 00:02:31,190 --> 00:02:34,609 Speaker 2: you still want to hit that emotional eject button, why 45 00:02:34,630 --> 00:02:37,770 Speaker 2: this journey is about so much more than simply not drinking, 46 00:02:38,270 --> 00:02:40,620 Speaker 2: and the enormous role that community has played. 47 00:02:41,030 --> 00:02:42,810 Speaker 3: And my story, and Lauren's story. 48 00:02:43,070 --> 00:02:45,730 Speaker 2: And that brings me to something that I'm so excited 49 00:02:45,770 --> 00:02:48,770 Speaker 2: to tell you about. If you haven't heard yet, the 50 00:02:48,930 --> 00:02:52,930 Speaker 2: October 40-Day Fast is going to kick off on October 5th. 51 00:02:53,450 --> 00:02:56,130 Speaker 2: We've got our same incredible team of coaches from the 52 00:02:56,210 --> 00:03:01,210 Speaker 2: June Fast, myself, Susan, Maureen, and Rena. We're adding a 53 00:03:01,290 --> 00:03:05,050 Speaker 2: Saturday call. Some of the feedback we got was that 54 00:03:05,410 --> 00:03:07,940 Speaker 2: the call times were difficult. And so we want to 55 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,620 Speaker 2: make sure that we are covering all time zones if 56 00:03:10,660 --> 00:03:14,820 Speaker 2: we possibly can, and all women at ages and stages 57 00:03:14,860 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 2: of your life, whether you're a mom of little ones 58 00:03:17,660 --> 00:03:20,299 Speaker 2: or you're working full time, hopefully there'll be a call 59 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: time for you. That kicks off on October 5th. You 60 00:03:23,750 --> 00:03:26,470 Speaker 2: can find all of the information at the link in 61 00:03:26,490 --> 00:03:28,990 Speaker 2: the show notes. And I'm so excited now for you 62 00:03:29,030 --> 00:03:33,470 Speaker 2: to hear my conversation with Lauren. Here is today's conversation. 63 00:03:33,490 --> 00:03:33,970 Speaker 3: Hi, friend. 64 00:03:34,350 --> 00:03:34,990 Speaker 4: Hi. 65 00:03:35,010 --> 00:03:38,970 Speaker 2: I'm so glad to be in the same Room with you. 66 00:03:39,010 --> 00:03:40,070 Speaker 2: I wish it was a real room. 67 00:03:40,190 --> 00:03:41,950 Speaker 3: For the gals that. 68 00:03:41,850 --> 00:03:45,210 Speaker 2: Don't know who you are, and many, many do, who 69 00:03:45,290 --> 00:03:45,589 Speaker 2: are you? 70 00:03:47,450 --> 00:03:51,130 Speaker 1: My name's Lauren. I am one of your earliest clients, 71 00:03:51,210 --> 00:03:51,610 Speaker 1: I think. 72 00:03:53,150 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 4: Yep. I called Christy, or I set up our first 73 00:03:57,780 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 4: Zoom meeting in August 2022. I was in the middle 74 00:04:03,220 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 4: of what I thought was going to be a month-long 75 00:04:06,900 --> 00:04:13,110 Speaker 4: alcohol fast. And I felt so good after two weeks 76 00:04:13,150 --> 00:04:15,490 Speaker 4: that I knew that I wanted to keep going. But 77 00:04:16,210 --> 00:04:20,460 Speaker 4: I also knew that I just didn't have the tools 78 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 4: or the willpower to do it on my own. And 79 00:04:23,820 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 4: I had been following you on Instagram for a few months. 80 00:04:27,740 --> 00:04:31,980 Speaker 4: And what struck me, I think, about your account was 81 00:04:32,060 --> 00:04:37,559 Speaker 4: that you didn't seem like angry or miserable. Good. 82 00:04:37,580 --> 00:04:40,490 Speaker 1: Yes, that appealed to me. 83 00:04:40,510 --> 00:04:43,909 Speaker 4: And so we set up our first call and I 84 00:04:43,990 --> 00:04:48,390 Speaker 4: joined one of your early groups and loved it and 85 00:04:48,910 --> 00:04:50,490 Speaker 4: still keep in touch with some of those women. 86 00:04:50,529 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: But yeah, here I am almost four years later free. 87 00:04:53,420 --> 00:04:54,340 Speaker 4: Yay. 88 00:04:55,540 --> 00:04:56,180 Speaker 3: So amazing. 89 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,940 Speaker 2: God is so good. And we become such good friends. 90 00:04:59,140 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 2: And Having you as a supporter and a cheerleader and 91 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,670 Speaker 2: an encourager and all the things through the last half 92 00:05:06,710 --> 00:05:09,390 Speaker 2: a decade has been so important to me. 93 00:05:09,529 --> 00:05:10,770 Speaker 3: So thanks, babe. 94 00:05:11,170 --> 00:05:13,030 Speaker 2: Thanks for all that you are and all you do. 95 00:05:13,790 --> 00:05:15,410 Speaker 3: So we're changing the format. 96 00:05:16,029 --> 00:05:20,210 Speaker 2: I've had the opportunity to interview Lauren a few times, 97 00:05:20,790 --> 00:05:23,510 Speaker 2: but we both have this idea separately of what if 98 00:05:23,589 --> 00:05:26,690 Speaker 2: we turned the mic around and And so you're going 99 00:05:26,710 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 2: to ask me some questions and I haven't prepped and 100 00:05:28,380 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 2: I don't know what you're going to ask me, but 101 00:05:29,620 --> 00:05:30,419 Speaker 2: I'm really excited. 102 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,820 Speaker 4: Also worth mentioning that I'm a professional interviewer. 103 00:05:34,900 --> 00:05:36,220 Speaker 3: Oh, yes, obviously. 104 00:05:37,140 --> 00:05:39,659 Speaker 1: This is what I do for my job. I'm a journalist. 105 00:05:40,180 --> 00:05:42,660 Speaker 4: And so I think I was on the treadmill at 106 00:05:42,700 --> 00:05:44,940 Speaker 4: the gym one day and this idea just popped into 107 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,260 Speaker 4: my head. I was like, I'm going to interview Christy. 108 00:05:47,750 --> 00:05:50,989 Speaker 4: So I texted you and you said, oh my goodness, 109 00:05:51,330 --> 00:05:52,210 Speaker 4: I was going to ask. 110 00:05:52,070 --> 00:05:54,130 Speaker 1: You the same thing, but I thought it was rude. 111 00:05:54,180 --> 00:05:55,779 Speaker 4: And I was like, no, I would much, I much 112 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 4: prefer being on this side of an interview than being 113 00:05:59,300 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 4: the one who answers questions. 114 00:06:02,060 --> 00:06:03,420 Speaker 1: So yeah, so excited. 115 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,870 Speaker 2: I'm so excited. You are so good at this and 116 00:06:08,089 --> 00:06:08,550 Speaker 2: let's go. 117 00:06:08,810 --> 00:06:09,420 Speaker 3: Let's do it. 118 00:06:09,910 --> 00:06:12,990 Speaker 1: Just like a real interview off the cuff on the record. 119 00:06:13,470 --> 00:06:14,630 Speaker 1: So first question. 120 00:06:15,950 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 4: You talk a lot about how you stopped drinking at 121 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,540 Speaker 4: the beginning of the pandemic. And here we are, March 2026. 122 00:06:24,540 --> 00:06:26,979 Speaker 4: So it must be, are you, have you passed your 123 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,930 Speaker 4: six-year mark? Six years on Monday. 124 00:06:28,940 --> 00:06:32,950 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Does it feel like six years? 125 00:06:33,430 --> 00:06:37,589 Speaker 2: It's funny because Carter coined it after year one sober burberry, 126 00:06:37,710 --> 00:06:39,710 Speaker 2: you know, instead of sober anniversary, he called it a 127 00:06:39,730 --> 00:06:44,650 Speaker 2: sober burberry. And we always celebrate with a cake, the 128 00:06:44,690 --> 00:06:47,669 Speaker 2: four of us as a family. And I totally and 129 00:06:47,710 --> 00:06:50,390 Speaker 2: completely forgot about it. And the only reason I kind 130 00:06:50,450 --> 00:06:52,530 Speaker 2: of remembered it this year is because I'm doing, I'm 131 00:06:53,490 --> 00:06:54,690 Speaker 2: attempting to do no sugar. 132 00:06:54,710 --> 00:06:55,770 Speaker 3: No chocolate for Len. 133 00:06:55,930 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 2: And so I was like, ooh, cake actually really sounds good. 134 00:07:00,580 --> 00:07:02,820 Speaker 2: And I was like, kids, can we just break it 135 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:03,979 Speaker 2: for my sober Burberry? 136 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 3: And they were like, yeah, yeah, get the cake, dad. 137 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:08,529 Speaker 1: I think you should definitely break it. 138 00:07:08,540 --> 00:07:09,580 Speaker 3: Well, we had it last night. 139 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:12,380 Speaker 1: You celebrated early. 140 00:07:12,780 --> 00:07:15,570 Speaker 2: Well, so it was on Monday. We celebrated Tuesday, so 141 00:07:16,070 --> 00:07:18,970 Speaker 2: a day late. But it wasn't at the forefront of 142 00:07:19,030 --> 00:07:24,210 Speaker 2: my mind, right? It doesn't feel hard anymore as far 143 00:07:24,250 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 2: as not drinking goes. But that being said, because then 144 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 2: I thought to myself, I wrote a real reflective piece 145 00:07:32,180 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 2: for year five. Am I going to write anything about 146 00:07:35,020 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: year six, you know, and like what I've learned? Because 147 00:07:37,340 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: I've tried to kind of catalog what I've learned over 148 00:07:40,370 --> 00:07:44,450 Speaker 2: the years. And I think for year six, what really 149 00:07:44,550 --> 00:07:47,190 Speaker 2: stuck out with me is it was a really hard year. 150 00:07:47,210 --> 00:07:49,570 Speaker 2: I had a really, really hard year. My dad got 151 00:07:49,590 --> 00:07:51,830 Speaker 2: really sick. He's in Los Angeles. 152 00:07:51,930 --> 00:07:52,870 Speaker 3: I'm in the UK. 153 00:07:53,330 --> 00:07:57,390 Speaker 2: I've spent probably a total of two months on his couch, like, 154 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,220 Speaker 2: going back and forth, looking after him, trying to make 155 00:08:00,260 --> 00:08:04,430 Speaker 2: sure he's cared for. It's really hard. I adore him, 156 00:08:04,470 --> 00:08:08,150 Speaker 2: but he's difficult. And so that was really hard. And 157 00:08:08,190 --> 00:08:10,690 Speaker 2: then something at the end of last year happened that 158 00:08:10,710 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 2: I'm not going to chat about that rocked me. And 159 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 2: when I say we talk about cortisol all the time, right? 160 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 3: We talk about regulating our nervous systems all the time. 161 00:08:20,980 --> 00:08:25,790 Speaker 2: When I talk about I felt like so strongly dysregulated 162 00:08:25,890 --> 00:08:29,630 Speaker 2: for 10 days where I was shaking and I couldn't 163 00:08:29,770 --> 00:08:33,670 Speaker 2: sleep and my mind was all over the place. And 164 00:08:33,710 --> 00:08:37,439 Speaker 2: so I say that to say the desire to check 165 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,780 Speaker 2: out and the desire to change my emotional state was 166 00:08:41,860 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 2: still there. 167 00:08:42,580 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: I was never going to do it with alcohol. 168 00:08:45,270 --> 00:08:47,750 Speaker 2: But I relate now to the gals, right, in the 169 00:08:47,790 --> 00:08:50,580 Speaker 2: fast and that I'm coaching where it's like, yeah, it's 170 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 2: so hard. It's so hard when you want to hit 171 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,100 Speaker 2: the eject button or you want to check out or 172 00:08:56,179 --> 00:08:58,980 Speaker 2: you want to just figure out how to feel different. 173 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,030 Speaker 2: And it takes a lot of practice of trying different 174 00:09:02,050 --> 00:09:04,650 Speaker 2: coping skills to figure out how to do that. 175 00:09:05,170 --> 00:09:06,790 Speaker 4: And I know you and I have talked about this before, 176 00:09:06,809 --> 00:09:08,790 Speaker 4: but there was one moment, and I think this was 177 00:09:08,830 --> 00:09:09,670 Speaker 4: in my first. 178 00:09:09,470 --> 00:09:13,500 Speaker 1: Year of sobriety where we were going through sort of a, Yeah. 179 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:13,829 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. 180 00:09:42,830 --> 00:09:45,470 Speaker 4: And it doesn't go away, but because I think this 181 00:09:45,490 --> 00:09:46,870 Speaker 4: is a question a lot of people have. I know 182 00:09:46,890 --> 00:09:48,530 Speaker 4: it was a question I've had, you know, when does 183 00:09:48,570 --> 00:09:52,229 Speaker 4: it start to feel easier? I'm going to be four 184 00:09:52,270 --> 00:09:55,969 Speaker 4: years sober later this year. And I would say in 185 00:09:56,510 --> 00:09:58,990 Speaker 4: the past year, year and a half, there is this 186 00:09:59,230 --> 00:10:02,429 Speaker 4: ease to it. that I didn't experience during the first 187 00:10:02,490 --> 00:10:07,470 Speaker 4: year or two. I had a realization relatively recently that 188 00:10:07,510 --> 00:10:11,150 Speaker 4: it would be stranger for me to drink now than 189 00:10:11,210 --> 00:10:13,370 Speaker 4: it is for me not to drink. Like if I 190 00:10:13,429 --> 00:10:18,300 Speaker 4: went to a social setting, a party, a vacation or whatever, 191 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,890 Speaker 4: it would be strange. for me and for the people 192 00:10:21,950 --> 00:10:24,990 Speaker 4: around me, if I started drinking alcohol, whereas like the 193 00:10:25,030 --> 00:10:28,650 Speaker 4: exact opposite was true, you know, in the early days. 194 00:10:28,710 --> 00:10:33,150 Speaker 4: So I wanted to hear from you, like, when did you, like, 195 00:10:33,290 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 4: aside from those moments of crisis, like, when did it 196 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:39,860 Speaker 4: truly start to feel easier? 197 00:10:40,580 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 198 00:10:41,540 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 2: And I mean, just to clarify, like in those moments 199 00:10:44,140 --> 00:10:47,950 Speaker 2: of crisis, it still wasn't like, I wasn't thinking about drinking, 200 00:10:48,150 --> 00:10:49,190 Speaker 2: you know, I really wasn't. 201 00:10:49,670 --> 00:10:51,610 Speaker 3: But I think it was a gradual process. 202 00:10:51,670 --> 00:10:54,750 Speaker 2: And I think I remember it being like, I had 203 00:10:54,809 --> 00:10:58,350 Speaker 2: a really, really dear girlfriend of mine, 40 years old, 204 00:10:58,970 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 2: pass away in my first year of not drinking. Our 205 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 2: kids had become buddies as kindergartners and we became fast friends. 206 00:11:09,660 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 2: And we were friends for, I don't know, five, six, 207 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,839 Speaker 2: seven years, maybe at that point. And she was a 208 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,660 Speaker 2: dear friend of mine. And I remember when she passed away, 209 00:11:19,330 --> 00:11:22,350 Speaker 2: The first thought was, I'm getting in the car. I'm 210 00:11:22,390 --> 00:11:25,690 Speaker 2: driving to the restaurant. I'm sitting at the bar. I'm 211 00:11:25,790 --> 00:11:27,810 Speaker 2: ordering a glass of Sauvignon Blanc. I could see the 212 00:11:27,870 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 2: sweat on the glass. Like that is what is going 213 00:11:30,030 --> 00:11:32,939 Speaker 2: to happen right now because it was just the pain, right? 214 00:11:33,020 --> 00:11:34,100 Speaker 3: The pain and the emotion. 215 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,340 Speaker 2: And then it was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 216 00:11:37,020 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 2: You know where that gets you. You know, you did 217 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,970 Speaker 2: that for two years when your mom passed. Like that 218 00:11:42,230 --> 00:11:43,110 Speaker 2: is not going to help you. 219 00:11:43,590 --> 00:11:44,170 Speaker 3: And so there was. 220 00:11:44,980 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 2: There was that kind of level of craving. And then 221 00:11:46,820 --> 00:11:48,540 Speaker 2: like a few months later, I remember sitting on the 222 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,260 Speaker 2: beach in California and looking at all the moms with 223 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 2: the goblets of rosé and like literally looking at it 224 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:55,980 Speaker 2: and asking myself. 225 00:11:56,860 --> 00:12:00,820 Speaker 3: Do I want that? Like, do I? Does it taste that? Like, 226 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 3: does it sound good? 227 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:03,820 Speaker 2: Does this feel like it would taste good right now? 228 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,939 Speaker 2: And I had to ask myself that. And then again, 229 00:12:06,980 --> 00:12:08,980 Speaker 2: like we always talk about, right, played that tape right 230 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 2: forward to the trying to get the Uber, trying to 231 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,469 Speaker 2: get the kids fed, dinner, bath, bed as fast as 232 00:12:13,530 --> 00:12:15,830 Speaker 2: possible so I could keep drinking, wake up hating myself. 233 00:12:16,270 --> 00:12:16,790 Speaker 1: No, thanks. 234 00:12:18,309 --> 00:12:22,030 Speaker 2: And so I think it just slowly, slowly dissipated. And 235 00:12:23,210 --> 00:12:27,700 Speaker 2: then as we also talk about learning all of those 236 00:12:27,770 --> 00:12:32,309 Speaker 2: different new helpful coping mechanisms. which are really, really hard 237 00:12:32,830 --> 00:12:35,329 Speaker 2: in the beginning to have those as substitutes because you've 238 00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:39,609 Speaker 2: never done them before. But now, like sometimes I will literally. 239 00:12:39,270 --> 00:12:41,390 Speaker 3: Just start walking, right? Walk out the door and just 240 00:12:41,410 --> 00:12:41,990 Speaker 3: start walking. 241 00:12:42,650 --> 00:12:44,809 Speaker 2: Or I will get on, I have a walking pad 242 00:12:44,870 --> 00:12:47,310 Speaker 2: under my desk here, put the walking pad on with 243 00:12:47,370 --> 00:12:51,390 Speaker 2: a worship song at my office or hot shower, right? 244 00:12:51,929 --> 00:12:56,819 Speaker 2: As opposed to just a tequila and just get back 245 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:02,190 Speaker 2: in your body, just breathe and try to, get with God. And, 246 00:13:02,290 --> 00:13:05,189 Speaker 2: but it takes practice. It takes so much practice. 247 00:13:05,890 --> 00:13:09,250 Speaker 4: I can remember after, I don't remember after which pregnancy 248 00:13:09,290 --> 00:13:12,290 Speaker 4: this was, but I had C-sections for both deliveries. And, 249 00:13:12,910 --> 00:13:14,510 Speaker 4: you know, you're on a lot of painkillers. And I 250 00:13:14,530 --> 00:13:17,170 Speaker 4: can remember thinking at the time that a hot shower 251 00:13:17,309 --> 00:13:21,410 Speaker 4: felt better than the Oxycontin. And like that holds true. 252 00:13:21,490 --> 00:13:24,270 Speaker 4: Like that is still a great stress relieving tool. 253 00:13:25,050 --> 00:13:27,900 Speaker 3: We'll be back right after a quick word from our sponsors. 254 00:13:28,950 --> 00:13:32,170 Speaker 4: I also wanted to ask you, like, when did you 255 00:13:32,290 --> 00:13:37,330 Speaker 4: go from being like confident in your sobriety to being 256 00:13:37,370 --> 00:13:39,780 Speaker 4: felt like you were called to help other women do it? 257 00:13:39,830 --> 00:13:42,550 Speaker 1: Because I don't feel confident. 258 00:13:42,050 --> 00:13:44,130 Speaker 4: Enough in my sobriety in four years to feel like 259 00:13:44,170 --> 00:13:46,090 Speaker 4: I could do what you do and write a whole 260 00:13:46,110 --> 00:13:46,609 Speaker 4: book about it. 261 00:13:46,650 --> 00:13:50,460 Speaker 1: But I'm just interested, like how that. transition happened. 262 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,979 Speaker 2: I think that's a story you're telling yourself because you 263 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,540 Speaker 2: have helped so many women, right? You have with our 264 00:13:57,700 --> 00:14:02,819 Speaker 2: like conversations and the relationships you've built with all the gals. 265 00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:03,820 Speaker 3: Like, so I don't know. 266 00:14:03,860 --> 00:14:07,420 Speaker 2: I would check that story because you have, your story has. 267 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:08,820 Speaker 1: I don't know. 268 00:14:08,940 --> 00:14:11,069 Speaker 3: Like, again, I think it was a slow burn. 269 00:14:11,450 --> 00:14:14,780 Speaker 2: I think because this was in COVID and I was 270 00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:19,750 Speaker 2: really vocal on Instagram just about experimenting. on what I 271 00:14:19,790 --> 00:14:22,170 Speaker 2: was doing and I had like a tiny following back 272 00:14:22,210 --> 00:14:24,740 Speaker 2: then because of my blog and everything but it got 273 00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 2: such interest and it was overwhelming and of course everyone 274 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 2: was like stuck to their phones because it was COVID 275 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: but the questions were rolling in and I realized that 276 00:14:36,580 --> 00:14:40,410 Speaker 2: people wanted to know more and then I was I 277 00:14:40,890 --> 00:14:43,010 Speaker 2: was reading all the stuff that we both have read 278 00:14:43,090 --> 00:14:45,790 Speaker 2: right like when you met When you mentioned, you know, 279 00:14:45,930 --> 00:14:47,970 Speaker 2: me not being angry, there were a lot of voices 280 00:14:48,090 --> 00:14:50,430 Speaker 2: out there that were angry, sober and angry. 281 00:14:50,450 --> 00:14:52,570 Speaker 1: And it's okay to be a little angry. 282 00:14:52,590 --> 00:14:54,530 Speaker 3: It's okay. Which is totally okay. 283 00:14:54,710 --> 00:14:58,510 Speaker 4: I didn't want to make sobriety my main personality trait. 284 00:14:58,830 --> 00:15:01,930 Speaker 1: And to me, it felt like you had achieved that, 285 00:15:01,990 --> 00:15:02,730 Speaker 1: if that makes sense. 286 00:15:03,130 --> 00:15:04,750 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I totally get that. 287 00:15:04,810 --> 00:15:07,230 Speaker 2: And I think I think what clicked for me too 288 00:15:07,270 --> 00:15:10,550 Speaker 2: is I didn't, I felt like there was the silo 289 00:15:10,610 --> 00:15:13,090 Speaker 2: of the quitlet and talking about sobriety. And then there 290 00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:16,530 Speaker 2: was like the, you know, all of the Christian authors 291 00:15:16,750 --> 00:15:19,870 Speaker 2: and encouragers that we love. And I didn't see, I 292 00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:22,130 Speaker 2: saw that gap. I was like, we need Jesus in 293 00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:25,190 Speaker 2: the sobriety space. And so that I think is when 294 00:15:25,230 --> 00:15:28,750 Speaker 2: it like clicked for me of, oh, no one's talking 295 00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:30,980 Speaker 2: about this from a Christian perspective. And like, I mean, 296 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,090 Speaker 2: mind you, like I started out for, a couple of 297 00:15:34,110 --> 00:15:36,170 Speaker 2: years as a secular coach before I was like, I 298 00:15:36,250 --> 00:15:39,820 Speaker 2: can't talk about being alcohol free without talking about the 299 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: joy and the peace that are found in Jesus anymore. 300 00:15:41,860 --> 00:15:42,620 Speaker 1: You know? 301 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,780 Speaker 2: So again, a slow burn. Does that answer your question? 302 00:15:45,820 --> 00:15:46,940 Speaker 2: Your questions are so good. 303 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:48,180 Speaker 3: Oh, good. 304 00:15:49,700 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: Like what should people look out for? I mean, like 305 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: what should you. 306 00:15:54,780 --> 00:15:59,020 Speaker 4: If you're considering sobriety or taking a break from alcohol 307 00:15:59,370 --> 00:16:03,230 Speaker 4: and like me, you're like, I think I could use 308 00:16:03,270 --> 00:16:06,550 Speaker 4: some coaching around this. And I fully admitted at the 309 00:16:06,990 --> 00:16:08,989 Speaker 4: beginning of this conversation that I picked you based on 310 00:16:09,010 --> 00:16:12,410 Speaker 4: your Instagram aesthetic, which probably was not like the most 311 00:16:12,490 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 4: vetting one person could do. But what are some questions 312 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 4: that people should ask or consider when choosing a coach? 313 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think coaching is really special, right? And it's 314 00:16:28,750 --> 00:16:33,030 Speaker 2: It's distinctly not therapy because you are allowed to sit 315 00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:36,630 Speaker 2: with someone who is going to also share their story. 316 00:16:36,890 --> 00:16:38,860 Speaker 2: And so I would say look for someone with a 317 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 2: similar story. And of course, it doesn't have to be, 318 00:16:41,540 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 2: you know, match for match the whole thing, but someone 319 00:16:44,140 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 2: that you can relate to whose reasons that you're drinking 320 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,580 Speaker 2: are similar, right? Like get a lot of gals like 321 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,220 Speaker 2: you where we talk a lot about grief and drinking 322 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 2: because of grief. 323 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:57,420 Speaker 3: So I would say similar story. 324 00:16:58,060 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 2: I also think that you now don't have to sacrifice 325 00:17:03,260 --> 00:17:05,100 Speaker 2: not talking about Jesus because there. 326 00:17:05,020 --> 00:17:05,820 Speaker 3: Are more and more. 327 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,369 Speaker 2: I mean, there are still not a ton, but Christian 328 00:17:09,390 --> 00:17:12,550 Speaker 2: coaches out there, there are more Christian resources out there. 329 00:17:12,690 --> 00:17:15,750 Speaker 2: So if your faith is something that's important to you, 330 00:17:16,310 --> 00:17:18,270 Speaker 2: you know, you can find someone that's going to help 331 00:17:18,330 --> 00:17:20,570 Speaker 2: you with the Bible as well with scripture. And I 332 00:17:20,609 --> 00:17:26,109 Speaker 2: think that's really, really important. Someone who is definitely neuroscience informed, right? 333 00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:29,890 Speaker 2: Because We change our thinking to change our drinking. You 334 00:17:29,930 --> 00:17:31,510 Speaker 2: have to understand how the mind works. 335 00:17:31,609 --> 00:17:32,930 Speaker 3: It is so helpful. 336 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 2: Some gals love to geek out on the science. 337 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,420 Speaker 3: I know I did. If you don't, that's okay. 338 00:17:39,460 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 2: Find someone that can explain it to you. Because when 339 00:17:42,100 --> 00:17:49,189 Speaker 2: you understand it, it's so helpful to just release that 340 00:17:49,270 --> 00:17:51,910 Speaker 2: desire and that cling to willpower. 341 00:17:52,430 --> 00:17:53,330 Speaker 1: It really is. 342 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:55,670 Speaker 2: If you figure out how you can change the way 343 00:17:55,710 --> 00:17:58,170 Speaker 2: that you're thinking and your desires and all of that, 344 00:17:58,270 --> 00:18:01,830 Speaker 2: and you realize you have agency and choice in that, 345 00:18:02,550 --> 00:18:04,700 Speaker 2: then it gets so much easier. So I would definitely 346 00:18:04,740 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 2: say someone that is also neuroscience informed, for sure. 347 00:18:08,300 --> 00:18:14,570 Speaker 4: Yeah, I remember during that 30-day break that I was 348 00:18:14,590 --> 00:18:18,350 Speaker 4: going to take that turned into infinity learned a lot 349 00:18:18,490 --> 00:18:21,929 Speaker 4: about the science pretty early on and it made it 350 00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 4: all it made my behavior make so much sense yeah 351 00:18:25,580 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 4: and it wasn't this personal failing it was just chemistry 352 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 4: and um it's like oh okay well no wonder i 353 00:18:34,540 --> 00:18:38,100 Speaker 4: found that very very helpful in in the early days 354 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,490 Speaker 4: you've coached a lot of people in in five years 355 00:18:41,550 --> 00:18:44,290 Speaker 4: or so however long you've been doing this um Can 356 00:18:44,350 --> 00:18:46,830 Speaker 4: you tell the people who are going to succeed? Are 357 00:18:46,869 --> 00:18:50,850 Speaker 4: there like common things that they share? Like, or can 358 00:18:50,890 --> 00:18:53,790 Speaker 4: you tell when someone's not quite ready? What's the difference 359 00:18:53,810 --> 00:18:54,930 Speaker 4: between success and failure? 360 00:18:54,950 --> 00:18:58,169 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's such a great question. 361 00:18:58,190 --> 00:19:04,630 Speaker 2: And I think I have a special perspective sitting here 362 00:19:04,710 --> 00:19:07,660 Speaker 2: now because there are gals who I have been coaching 363 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 2: for multiple years. And for example, there is a gal 364 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,180 Speaker 2: who I've been coaching for, about three years, I would say. 365 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 2: And she is alcohol free now. 366 00:19:19,290 --> 00:19:21,129 Speaker 3: It was a struggle. It was a struggle. 367 00:19:21,450 --> 00:19:24,389 Speaker 2: But the last time we were on a phone call together, 368 00:19:24,450 --> 00:19:27,050 Speaker 2: on a Zoom call together, she had been through so 369 00:19:27,090 --> 00:19:31,430 Speaker 2: much and she had learned so much. And she had 370 00:19:32,450 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 2: kept redirecting and reorienting herself back to Jesus. Again, learned 371 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 2: so much about herself and her body and how she 372 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,300 Speaker 2: was coping and I asked her, I said, would you have, 373 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 2: would you change this timeline? Would you have changed any 374 00:19:46,220 --> 00:19:48,370 Speaker 2: of it? Because, and I rattled off all the things 375 00:19:48,410 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 2: that she had learned with my notes And she was like, no, 376 00:19:51,060 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 2: I wouldn't because I wouldn't be here where I am. 377 00:19:54,380 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 3: Today without all those stops and starts. God's timing is perfect, right? 378 00:19:59,340 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 2: And he has, we all have different things that we 379 00:20:01,619 --> 00:20:04,930 Speaker 2: need to learn and on a different timeline. And so I, 380 00:20:05,220 --> 00:20:09,310 Speaker 2: I say, hold the journey lightly and Because who knows 381 00:20:09,369 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 2: how long it's going to take, but who knows what 382 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,140 Speaker 2: you need to learn under that, right? How many times 383 00:20:14,180 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 2: have you heard me say this isn't about alcohol? 384 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: It's not. 385 00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 2: It's about all the reasons that we're drinking. 386 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 4: Yeah, I've said many times because it was sort of 387 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:29,649 Speaker 4: an early realization that like actually physically stopping drinking is 388 00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:33,710 Speaker 4: kind of the easy part because there's such immediate relief 389 00:20:33,790 --> 00:20:35,489 Speaker 4: from it, or at least there was for me. 390 00:20:36,270 --> 00:20:36,570 Speaker 3: Yeah. 391 00:20:36,790 --> 00:20:39,710 Speaker 4: But it's like, unearthing all the reasons why I was 392 00:20:39,790 --> 00:20:42,129 Speaker 4: drinking that way in the first place is the work 393 00:20:42,250 --> 00:20:45,310 Speaker 4: that takes a long time. Yeah, it's you've. 394 00:20:45,140 --> 00:20:46,940 Speaker 3: Consented your brain to automate, right? 395 00:20:46,980 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 2: Dr. Lee Warren always says that it's like you have 396 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 2: trained it to run a particular script to run a 397 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,140 Speaker 2: particular play program, whatever you want. 398 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:55,510 Speaker 3: To call it. 399 00:20:55,980 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 2: And so I'm just thinking about the gals right now, 400 00:20:58,140 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 2: you know, the questions of, oh, my gosh, like, I 401 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 2: can't believe I know all this stuff. I've I'm halfway 402 00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 2: through the book and why do I keep choosing this? 403 00:21:06,420 --> 00:21:10,379 Speaker 2: I'm like, well, you've chosen this, right? For decades and decades. 404 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 3: It would be weird. 405 00:21:11,460 --> 00:21:13,700 Speaker 2: Like you said, it would be weird not to because 406 00:21:14,180 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 2: your brain has literally been programmed. And so we have 407 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,739 Speaker 2: to like, we get to reprogram it. We get to 408 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,860 Speaker 2: renew it. We get to renew our mind and take 409 00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 2: our thoughts captive. And that takes, I get it takes time, 410 00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:28,540 Speaker 2: but he teaches us exactly what we need to know 411 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:28,899 Speaker 2: in the. 412 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 3: Amount of time that we need to understand it and 413 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 3: know it. 414 00:21:32,570 --> 00:21:36,070 Speaker 4: I did an alcohol fast for Lent years ago. Like 415 00:21:36,130 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 4: this was probably 2011 or 12. 416 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:40,180 Speaker 1: It was successful. 417 00:21:40,260 --> 00:21:42,900 Speaker 4: I didn't drink for that period of six, seven weeks. 418 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,530 Speaker 4: The Saturday before Easter, I think, you know, we were 419 00:21:46,770 --> 00:21:50,230 Speaker 4: up and at midnight, I had a couple drinks and 420 00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:51,650 Speaker 4: I drank heavily on Easter. 421 00:21:52,130 --> 00:21:54,270 Speaker 1: In some ways, that fast. 422 00:21:55,170 --> 00:21:59,050 Speaker 4: held me back for a long time because I sort 423 00:21:59,090 --> 00:22:02,310 Speaker 4: of held it up in my mind as evidence that 424 00:22:02,670 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 4: I could walk away from alcohol if I wanted to. 425 00:22:04,859 --> 00:22:05,709 Speaker 3: Yeah. 426 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,140 Speaker 1: And yet I was still drinking really heavily. 427 00:22:08,740 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 4: For people out there who are not yet ready to 428 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 4: make a longer commitment, this was me in 2011 or whatever. 429 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,409 Speaker 1: I mean, I really stopped drinking for good and 2022. 430 00:22:20,410 --> 00:22:23,550 Speaker 4: So it took me another 10 years to get there. 431 00:22:24,090 --> 00:22:28,670 Speaker 4: What advice would you have for that person who, you know, 432 00:22:28,750 --> 00:22:32,580 Speaker 4: isn't ready to make a longer commitment, but who is 433 00:22:32,670 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 4: taking a break right now? Like, what would you encourage 434 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 4: them to sort of carry forward? 435 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that question, babe. 436 00:22:40,100 --> 00:22:44,939 Speaker 2: I think curiosity and, for example... And she'll let me 437 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,060 Speaker 2: tell the story because she's told the story of Brittany 438 00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: on our leadership team, right? She was client turned friend 439 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,740 Speaker 2: turned leadership gal in our community. And she sat down 440 00:22:55,780 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 2: in front of me on her first call. And she 441 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 2: just said to me, look, I don't want to do this. 442 00:23:00,340 --> 00:23:02,260 Speaker 2: I'm not ready to do this. I'm not going to 443 00:23:02,300 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 2: do it. It's not happening yet. But I just I 444 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 2: know at some point. Yeah. we're going to have to 445 00:23:09,260 --> 00:23:10,899 Speaker 2: look at this. And I was like, okay, babe, I 446 00:23:10,940 --> 00:23:14,210 Speaker 2: totally hear you. Here is a set of mindful drinking questions. 447 00:23:14,790 --> 00:23:17,129 Speaker 2: I want you to take these away. And basically it 448 00:23:17,170 --> 00:23:19,390 Speaker 2: was a set of questions asking her to get really 449 00:23:19,490 --> 00:23:22,129 Speaker 2: clear about actually how drinking is making her feel in 450 00:23:22,170 --> 00:23:28,609 Speaker 2: a super self-compassionate, grace-filled, nonjudgmental way of, oh, after an 451 00:23:28,690 --> 00:23:31,210 Speaker 2: hour of drinking, yeah, I. 452 00:23:31,150 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 3: Feel a little bit loose and I'm a little bit 453 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:33,460 Speaker 3: more relaxed. 454 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,260 Speaker 2: But then immediately the thoughts are starting to flood in 455 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 2: of like, Should I have a second glass? I said 456 00:23:39,100 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 2: I was only going to have one. Or you have 457 00:23:40,859 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 2: the second and you're thinking about the third. And where 458 00:23:43,770 --> 00:23:46,179 Speaker 2: does that go to? And just being really in tune, 459 00:23:46,270 --> 00:23:49,929 Speaker 2: not only to how alcohol is making you feel, but 460 00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:52,070 Speaker 2: how much thought space it's taking up. 461 00:23:52,510 --> 00:23:53,790 Speaker 3: And also the whys. 462 00:23:54,030 --> 00:23:55,649 Speaker 2: Why are you drinking it? And did it give you 463 00:23:55,690 --> 00:23:58,550 Speaker 2: that thing, right? If it relaxed you and you were 464 00:23:58,590 --> 00:24:00,369 Speaker 2: relaxed for an entire week and you didn't need to 465 00:24:00,410 --> 00:24:02,949 Speaker 2: drink again because you were so relaxed and it worked, 466 00:24:03,350 --> 00:24:03,869 Speaker 2: then great. 467 00:24:04,050 --> 00:24:05,550 Speaker 3: But it doesn't do that, right? 468 00:24:05,670 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 2: And so... Just be open and curious to what it's doing. 469 00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 2: That's along the same lines of how we talk about 470 00:24:12,180 --> 00:24:15,010 Speaker 2: growth points in the book, right? It's like if you 471 00:24:15,050 --> 00:24:17,530 Speaker 2: have a drink, like what did you learn? Did it 472 00:24:17,570 --> 00:24:20,410 Speaker 2: give you that thing you were drinking it for? And 473 00:24:20,550 --> 00:24:24,490 Speaker 2: just get really, really curious because we're conditioned from the 474 00:24:24,530 --> 00:24:28,369 Speaker 2: world to think that alcohol benefits us in a lot 475 00:24:28,550 --> 00:24:32,810 Speaker 2: of ways. And we are bombarded with that message, especially 476 00:24:32,869 --> 00:24:33,669 Speaker 2: on social media. 477 00:24:33,690 --> 00:24:33,770 Speaker 4: Yeah. 478 00:24:34,810 --> 00:24:37,609 Speaker 2: But in every other aspect as well, movies, you know, TV, 479 00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:41,580 Speaker 2: all that, we have to get really, really curious and 480 00:24:41,710 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 2: clear and truthful with ourselves to see if all of 481 00:24:44,740 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 2: that is true. We'll be back right after a quick 482 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 2: word from our sponsors. I'm just going to pause us 483 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:55,250 Speaker 2: for one second to remind you that the October Love 484 00:24:55,270 --> 00:24:58,010 Speaker 2: Live Sober 40 Day Fast is right around the corner. 485 00:24:58,410 --> 00:25:00,850 Speaker 2: We officially kick off on October 5th. 486 00:25:01,330 --> 00:25:02,490 Speaker 3: And if you've been listening to this. 487 00:25:02,410 --> 00:25:03,669 Speaker 2: Podcast for a while, go ahead and subscribe to our 488 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,500 Speaker 2: or reading your copy of Love Life Sober and watching 489 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 2: from the sidelines and thinking, I know I need to 490 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,180 Speaker 2: do something, but I have no idea where to start. 491 00:25:11,619 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 2: That is exactly why I created this coached 40-day fast. 492 00:25:16,619 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 2: I'm not asking you to decide on forever. I'm just 493 00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:22,859 Speaker 2: asking you to give yourself 40 days. 40 days to 494 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 2: get really curious about the role alcohol is playing in 495 00:25:25,820 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 2: your life. 40 days to experience what it feels like 496 00:25:28,859 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 2: to wake up without regret or anxiety about the night before. 497 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 2: 40 days to notice your sleep, your energy, your relationships, 498 00:25:35,380 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 2: your thoughts, and maybe even your relationship with God when 499 00:25:38,500 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 2: alcohol is no longer taking up so much space. And 500 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 2: you are absolutely not doing this alone. We'll be walking 501 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,290 Speaker 2: together through my bestselling book, Love Life Sober, day by day, 502 00:25:48,410 --> 00:25:51,810 Speaker 2: and you'll have access to four live coaching calls every 503 00:25:51,869 --> 00:25:55,889 Speaker 2: single week with me and my incredible team of coaches, Reena, Maureen, 504 00:25:55,970 --> 00:25:58,940 Speaker 2: and Susan. And if you can't make those coaching calls live, 505 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 2: we're going to record them for you and pop them 506 00:26:01,140 --> 00:26:04,810 Speaker 2: in your private community space. You'll have access to that 507 00:26:04,850 --> 00:26:08,650 Speaker 2: completely private space inside the Love Life Sober community filled 508 00:26:08,670 --> 00:26:12,250 Speaker 2: with other women doing these 40 days right alongside you. 509 00:26:12,670 --> 00:26:15,980 Speaker 2: Women who get it, women you can be completely honest with, 510 00:26:16,180 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 2: women who are going to celebrate the wins with. 511 00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 3: You and remind you why you started on the harder days. 512 00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:24,940 Speaker 2: And the community piece of this is so important because 513 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 2: so many of us have tried to do this quietly 514 00:26:27,140 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 2: and by ourselves. 515 00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 3: You don't have to do that anymore. 516 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 2: 40 days is long enough to experience real change, but 517 00:26:33,140 --> 00:26:35,609 Speaker 2: short enough to feel possible. If there is even a 518 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,490 Speaker 2: tiny voice inside you saying, maybe this is my time, 519 00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:41,350 Speaker 2: maybe you should listen to her. The Love Life Sober 520 00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:45,230 Speaker 2: 40 Day Alcohol Fast begins October 5th. And I would 521 00:26:45,450 --> 00:26:48,250 Speaker 2: absolutely love to meet you and walk these 40 days 522 00:26:48,270 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 2: with you. Head to the link in the show notes 523 00:26:50,380 --> 00:26:52,459 Speaker 2: to get all the details. I cannot wait to see 524 00:26:52,500 --> 00:26:54,750 Speaker 2: what God is going to do in these 40 days. Okay, 525 00:26:54,830 --> 00:26:56,490 Speaker 2: let's get back to today's conversation. 526 00:26:57,010 --> 00:26:59,730 Speaker 4: One of the other things that I was thinking would 527 00:26:59,770 --> 00:27:02,450 Speaker 4: have been helpful for me, I think it was Holly 528 00:27:02,490 --> 00:27:05,149 Speaker 4: Whitaker who wrote in her book about this concept of 529 00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:07,950 Speaker 4: a toolkit. And for many years, alcohol was the only 530 00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:11,180 Speaker 4: tool in my toolkit. But like, if I could have 531 00:27:11,260 --> 00:27:14,859 Speaker 4: learned to develop, even as I was continuing to drink 532 00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:19,330 Speaker 4: for those 10 years, like tools in addition to, I 533 00:27:19,369 --> 00:27:19,970 Speaker 4: think that that. 534 00:27:19,850 --> 00:27:21,390 Speaker 1: Would have been really helpful, like. 535 00:27:22,250 --> 00:27:26,590 Speaker 4: Prayer and journaling and needlepoint, which is a whole other 536 00:27:26,730 --> 00:27:30,380 Speaker 4: separate 30-minute conversation. I think that that would have helped 537 00:27:30,420 --> 00:27:32,980 Speaker 4: me so that alcohol wasn't the only thing that I 538 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 4: was turning to. Now, it's tricky because alcohol has this 539 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 4: tendency to crowd everything else that brings you pleasure out. But, 540 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 4: you know, this is something I talked to my 10-year-old about. Like, 541 00:27:42,980 --> 00:27:46,689 Speaker 4: when you're feeling really anxious or scared or stressed or 542 00:27:47,130 --> 00:27:51,300 Speaker 4: whatever big emotion, like, it's helpful to have an actual 543 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 4: physical list of things that help calm you down. And 544 00:27:55,980 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 4: so that when you're feeling those big things, you don't 545 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 4: experience a negative sort of outburst. 546 00:28:03,140 --> 00:28:03,460 Speaker 1: Yeah. 547 00:28:03,859 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 4: And so maybe that might be helpful for someone who 548 00:28:06,540 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 4: isn't ready to make, you know, a lifelong commitment to sobriety, 549 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,350 Speaker 4: like to sort of strategize some ways other than, or 550 00:28:14,330 --> 00:28:17,830 Speaker 4: in addition to a glass of wine or, or, or whatever. Yeah. 551 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:19,740 Speaker 1: Substance they're using. 552 00:28:19,740 --> 00:28:21,380 Speaker 3: 100%. 553 00:28:21,380 --> 00:28:23,340 Speaker 2: Because like with everything you said, right, a lot of 554 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 2: us weren't taught. Like you're teaching, I'm trying to teach, right? 555 00:28:27,260 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 2: This is how to deal with the big, heavy, hard emotions. 556 00:28:30,460 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 2: But also like I wasn't taught, right? It was very 557 00:28:34,020 --> 00:28:36,850 Speaker 2: much like make it go away or how do we 558 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,110 Speaker 2: fix this as fast as possible? And alcohol does that, right? 559 00:28:40,190 --> 00:28:42,430 Speaker 2: It fixes it. I'm using air quotes for the people 560 00:28:42,470 --> 00:28:46,310 Speaker 2: not watching on the YouTube. It fixes it temporarily, makes 561 00:28:46,350 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 2: it go away temporarily. But as you said, having those extra, 562 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,300 Speaker 2: those more important, more effective, more healthy coping mechanisms and 563 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 2: tools is so important. And for a lot of us, 564 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 2: we learn them for the first time when we quit drinking. 565 00:29:03,380 --> 00:29:06,900 Speaker 2: But there's no reason to say you can't start earlier. 566 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: Well, I think this answers my questions. 567 00:29:10,140 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 3: That was fun. 568 00:29:11,380 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: I'm glad I don't have to turn around and write 569 00:29:12,820 --> 00:29:13,739 Speaker 1: an article about it now. 570 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. Actually, no, just kidding. This was so, so fun. 571 00:29:18,460 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: Was there anything else that we didn't? 572 00:29:20,220 --> 00:29:22,300 Speaker 4: This is a question that I always ask people at 573 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 4: the end, because it's when you turn your recorder off 574 00:29:24,820 --> 00:29:27,060 Speaker 4: that people actually start being candid with you. 575 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: Is there anything that I didn't ask that you would 576 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:31,090 Speaker 1: like to talk about? 577 00:29:31,810 --> 00:29:33,490 Speaker 2: No, I mean, what I really wanted to talk about 578 00:29:33,530 --> 00:29:36,690 Speaker 2: was just, you know, six years, you still kind of 579 00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:38,490 Speaker 2: want to check out, but you don't have to. 580 00:29:39,150 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 3: Is there anything that you think would be encouraging for people? 581 00:29:42,540 --> 00:29:43,940 Speaker 1: One more question. 582 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 4: One of the things that I think really helped me 583 00:29:47,420 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 4: in the beginning when I signed up for your coaching 584 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,810 Speaker 4: was that, you know, I think we had maybe a 585 00:29:52,050 --> 00:29:55,570 Speaker 4: couple one-on-one sessions, but I joined a group almost immediately. 586 00:29:55,970 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 4: And it was finding other women who were sort of 587 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,420 Speaker 4: at the same point in their journey that really kept 588 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,420 Speaker 4: me coming back week after week. So it wasn't like 589 00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 4: you talking at me. It was me sort of and 590 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,660 Speaker 4: we would sort of go around in turns and say, like, 591 00:30:11,740 --> 00:30:13,860 Speaker 4: this is what I'm really struggling with this week. And 592 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,710 Speaker 4: it was like coaching each other almost. And so I, 593 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 4: you know, wonder. where I would be without that small group. 594 00:30:22,420 --> 00:30:26,690 Speaker 4: And is that idea of community, like how integral is 595 00:30:26,730 --> 00:30:29,910 Speaker 4: that to someone's success in your experience of coaching over 596 00:30:29,930 --> 00:30:30,690 Speaker 4: the past several years? 597 00:30:31,030 --> 00:30:32,670 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, so good, babe. 598 00:30:32,750 --> 00:30:37,540 Speaker 2: It is, it's completely integral. It is so, so important. 599 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 2: We cannot heal alone. If you gals have not listened 600 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 2: to the podcast recording that I did with Tony Collier, 601 00:30:46,580 --> 00:30:48,340 Speaker 2: she talks all about healing and community. 602 00:30:48,380 --> 00:30:49,540 Speaker 3: So that would be a really good one. 603 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,380 Speaker 2: And I'll link it in the show notes for you gals, 604 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:56,620 Speaker 2: because it really dives into how important this is. We 605 00:30:57,140 --> 00:31:00,790 Speaker 2: the devil loves to see us alone and isolated, because 606 00:31:01,070 --> 00:31:04,690 Speaker 2: that is when we stay stuck. And so to get 607 00:31:04,730 --> 00:31:07,630 Speaker 2: into a room to realize that you're not the only one, 608 00:31:07,650 --> 00:31:11,390 Speaker 2: right to realize that if you tell your vulnerable story 609 00:31:11,430 --> 00:31:13,630 Speaker 2: of how you're stuck, people are going to still be 610 00:31:13,670 --> 00:31:15,670 Speaker 2: in that room and still love you and encourage you 611 00:31:15,730 --> 00:31:19,550 Speaker 2: and say, oh my gosh, me too, is part of 612 00:31:19,570 --> 00:31:23,550 Speaker 2: the healing. It is part of the healing. And so 613 00:31:23,570 --> 00:31:26,190 Speaker 2: I think it's incredibly important. And when you and I 614 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,060 Speaker 2: were in that group, right, that was a non-Christian group. 615 00:31:30,140 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 2: It was a secular group. And I think now in 616 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,310 Speaker 2: Love Life Sober, which is a Christian community, it's almost 617 00:31:38,510 --> 00:31:40,770 Speaker 2: even a bigger sigh of relief for the women coming 618 00:31:40,970 --> 00:31:45,030 Speaker 2: in because some of them are used to small groups, 619 00:31:45,050 --> 00:31:47,590 Speaker 2: let's say at church, right? They're used to kind of 620 00:31:47,650 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 2: community and being in groups, but they were never able 621 00:31:50,620 --> 00:31:53,930 Speaker 2: to say this thing. And so it's kept them alone 622 00:31:53,970 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 2: and isolated in this area. And so, so many women 623 00:31:58,260 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 2: come in and say, oh my gosh, I can't believe 624 00:32:00,580 --> 00:32:04,460 Speaker 2: there are others and struggling like me in all ages 625 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,830 Speaker 2: and stages, which is so, so cool as well. And 626 00:32:07,870 --> 00:32:10,700 Speaker 2: so it is so important. And just a quick note 627 00:32:10,740 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 2: on that, right, is let's put all of our thoughts 628 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 2: about the way that AA is run and the fundamental 629 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,550 Speaker 2: way that, you know, the program, setting that to the side. 630 00:32:20,010 --> 00:32:22,250 Speaker 2: I think AA works for some women because they walk 631 00:32:22,310 --> 00:32:24,730 Speaker 2: in a room and they do find their people, right? 632 00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:26,590 Speaker 3: And then it's, they have a community. 633 00:32:27,090 --> 00:32:28,650 Speaker 2: And I think it doesn't work for a lot of 634 00:32:28,670 --> 00:32:32,140 Speaker 2: women because they're in a room, normally in a church basement, right, 635 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 2: where they don't find their people, right? And so then 636 00:32:35,460 --> 00:32:39,510 Speaker 2: their next step is to do nothing because they think 637 00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:42,190 Speaker 2: there are no other people out there like them. And 638 00:32:42,250 --> 00:32:45,370 Speaker 2: so if it is not Love Life Sober, keep looking 639 00:32:45,790 --> 00:32:47,910 Speaker 2: because there are so many options now and there are 640 00:32:47,950 --> 00:32:50,710 Speaker 2: so many groups and it is so, so important to 641 00:32:50,750 --> 00:32:52,410 Speaker 2: get in community and heal. 642 00:32:54,060 --> 00:32:57,900 Speaker 4: Something that I've been thinking about, you know, as women, 643 00:32:58,140 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 4: we are taught to put sort of our shiniest selves forward. 644 00:33:03,050 --> 00:33:06,790 Speaker 4: And there are so many spaces where it is implied, 645 00:33:06,910 --> 00:33:10,460 Speaker 4: you know, where we should walk in and sort of 646 00:33:10,660 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 4: hide the ugliest parts of ourselves, whether that's work or 647 00:33:14,540 --> 00:33:20,180 Speaker 4: church or, you know, the PTO or wherever. There is 648 00:33:20,220 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 4: such relief to be able to walk into a space 649 00:33:22,980 --> 00:33:27,210 Speaker 4: where you're encouraged to show and talk about the parts 650 00:33:27,250 --> 00:33:30,820 Speaker 4: that you're ashamed of and to realize that other women 651 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:31,940 Speaker 4: are feeling the same way. 652 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: It's, it's, it's utter relief. 653 00:33:34,660 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 654 00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:38,260 Speaker 3: And that's how you make true, real connection, right? 655 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 2: That is why you and I are such good friends 656 00:33:41,660 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 2: is because we were just open. 657 00:33:43,620 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: And raw and honest. 658 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 3: And like, you know, we went on. 659 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 2: That one retreat together into partner Pilates and it was, 660 00:33:49,660 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 2: we were going to be best friends for life after that. 661 00:33:53,350 --> 00:33:55,570 Speaker 1: It was the foot to feet connection. 662 00:33:55,590 --> 00:33:56,770 Speaker 3: Foot to feet connection. 663 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,370 Speaker 2: You don't get that with people that you're just surface 664 00:34:00,550 --> 00:34:01,470 Speaker 2: level with, right? 665 00:34:01,510 --> 00:34:04,150 Speaker 3: You just, you don't. You just don't. 666 00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:08,190 Speaker 2: Like, I remember there's one gal who was on the 667 00:34:08,230 --> 00:34:11,590 Speaker 2: PTO with me when the kids were in primary elementary school. 668 00:34:12,190 --> 00:34:14,850 Speaker 2: And like on paper, I just kept always thinking like 669 00:34:14,989 --> 00:34:18,370 Speaker 2: on paper, we should be really good friends. We were 670 00:34:18,410 --> 00:34:20,870 Speaker 2: both from the same city. We had both moved to 671 00:34:20,930 --> 00:34:23,350 Speaker 2: the UK, all of these things. And I could never 672 00:34:23,489 --> 00:34:26,069 Speaker 2: get past first base ever. And I was like, that's 673 00:34:26,180 --> 00:34:29,970 Speaker 2: so weird. And now I'm like, oh, it's because we 674 00:34:30,010 --> 00:34:31,980 Speaker 2: never got past first base. 675 00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 3: You know, we never, we never got deep. 676 00:34:36,020 --> 00:34:40,819 Speaker 4: It's so refreshing in these communities to just skip all 677 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,380 Speaker 4: the small talk. Yes. 678 00:34:42,739 --> 00:34:42,899 Speaker 2: Yeah. 679 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,180 Speaker 1: I find it refreshing anyway. 680 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 2: Yes. 681 00:34:45,340 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 682 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,689 Speaker 3: Who wants to do small talk? Not me. 683 00:34:49,050 --> 00:34:49,890 Speaker 4: This was fun. 684 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 2: This was so fun. I love spending time with you. 685 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,380 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for taking an hour. 686 00:34:55,219 --> 00:34:59,930 Speaker 3: Out of your busy day. I appreciate you so much. 687 00:35:00,030 --> 00:35:02,150 Speaker 4: It's a long day. I'm not going to lie. I 688 00:35:02,450 --> 00:35:04,850 Speaker 4: think my schedule goes to like 8 p.m. tonight, but 689 00:35:04,890 --> 00:35:07,290 Speaker 4: this will be the highlight of it for sure. 690 00:35:07,410 --> 00:35:10,090 Speaker 3: Well, thank you. I appreciate you. You're the best. 691 00:35:10,430 --> 00:35:11,950 Speaker 1: Yes, I miss you. 692 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 3: I miss you back. 693 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,240 Speaker 1: Okay, and good luck to everyone who's finishing up their fast. 694 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 4: Yes. 695 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,140 Speaker 2: All right, ladies, we will see you next week on 696 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 2: Love Life Sober. 697 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,259 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. Thank you for spending this time with 698 00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 3: me on Love Life Sober. 699 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,940 Speaker 2: If today's conversation stirred something in your heart, don't rush 700 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:29,450 Speaker 2: past it. 701 00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:30,339 Speaker 3: Take it to prayer. 702 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,089 Speaker 2: If you're feeling ready for deeper connection and support, I'd 703 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,590 Speaker 2: love to invite you into the Love Life Sober community, 704 00:35:36,910 --> 00:35:41,650 Speaker 2: a grace-filled, shame-free space where real connection grows and lasting 705 00:35:41,710 --> 00:35:44,209 Speaker 2: change takes root. You can find the link to join 706 00:35:44,290 --> 00:35:47,990 Speaker 2: us in the show notes. Love Life Sober is part 707 00:35:48,010 --> 00:35:51,989 Speaker 2: of the Life Audio Podcast Network, where faith-centered podcasts help 708 00:35:52,010 --> 00:35:54,410 Speaker 2: you grow deeper in your walk with Christ. You can 709 00:35:54,450 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 2: find more faith-centered podcasts at lifeaudio.com. Until next time, be 710 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,790 Speaker 2: gentle with yourself, stay curious, and trust God's promises. He 711 00:36:03,870 --> 00:36:05,009 Speaker 2: has freedom waiting for you.