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Speaker 1: Life audio During COVID, I noticed I was drinking wine

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Speaker 1: every night for a while, and I noticed I even

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Speaker 1: wanted to do it, to do it alone, you know.

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Speaker 1: And it was about four or five o'clock in the afternoon,

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Speaker 1: you know, right before you hit that sort of second

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Speaker 1: shift of the day, Like, oh gosh, what am I

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Speaker 1: supposed to do with myself at four o'clock in the afternoon.

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Speaker 1: And so I would just natch, I would just go

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Speaker 1: and reach for that bottle of wine and the four

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Speaker 1: a glass of wine and turn into two. And what

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Speaker 1: helped me was to think about where's this, where's this going?

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Speaker 1: And do I want to go down this path where

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Speaker 1: this is what I do every day? And do I

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Speaker 1: like the fact that I don't necessarily want everybody to

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Speaker 1: know about this.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, and welcome to the Confessions of a Christian

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Speaker 2: Alcoholic podcast. I am your host, John Seidel. This is

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Speaker 2: your home for real stories, radical vulnerability, and remarkable comebacks.

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Speaker 2: In the end, this podcast is a place for the desperate,

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Speaker 2: the downtrodden, the destitute, and especially the drunk. But it's

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Speaker 2: also a place of hope and healing. I know that

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Speaker 2: firsthand because I'm the Christian who became an alcoholic, not

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Speaker 2: the other way around. Today I've found sobriety after decades

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Speaker 2: of struggling. But more importantly than finding sobriety, I found Jesus.

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Speaker 2: My prayer is that as I interview people just like

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Speaker 2: you and just like me, along with professionals in the

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Speaker 2: fields of trauma, faith and addiction recovery, you will find

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Speaker 2: the peace that is available to you through Christ on

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Speaker 2: the other side of whatever you're going through and whatever

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Speaker 2: addiction that might be. Because because let's face it, we're all

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Speaker 2: addicted to something so welcome, let's get radically vulnerable as

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Speaker 2: we explore what it looks like to be on this

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Speaker 2: journey of MESSI sanctification. We'll be right back after this.

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Speaker 2: You know, they say not to meet your heroes right

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Speaker 2: because sorely you will be disappointed. But I can say

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Speaker 2: that I have met one of my heroes, and this

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Speaker 2: person is the real deal. They are genuine, They are

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Speaker 2: just who you would think they are. Now that doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean this person is perfect, But what I can tell

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Speaker 2: you is that today's guest is someone that I owe

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Speaker 2: a debt of gratitude too, and I am honored and

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Speaker 2: excited to bring her and introduce her to you today.

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Speaker 2: Her name is Kimberly Miller Kim, and she wrote the

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Speaker 2: book Boundaries for Your Soul. I'm holding it up if

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Speaker 2: you're watching this online at the Veritas Daily dot com,

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Speaker 2: which you can do. She wrote the book Boundaries for

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Speaker 2: Your Soul with Alison Cook. Now, Alison Cook was one

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Speaker 2: of our early guests on the podcast, and so we

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Speaker 2: interviewed her. But now we get the chance to talk

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Speaker 2: to Kimberly, and I am just so excited about this conversation.

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Speaker 2: And while I guess you could say the topic is

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Speaker 2: is in one sense similar to what we talked with Alison,

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Speaker 2: it goes in a completely different direction. Or I should

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Speaker 2: say we talk about things that we didn't get to

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Speaker 2: talk about with Alison. And so even if you've listened

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Speaker 2: to the Alison episode, please listen to the Kim episode

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Speaker 2: that you're about to hear. She has written this book,

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Speaker 2: Boundaries for Your Soul. She's a soul, she's a licensed therapist.

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Speaker 2: I had a chance to I ran into her at

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Speaker 2: a conference last fall that we were both speaking at

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Speaker 2: and went up to her and you just don't know, right, like,

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Speaker 2: you just don't know how people are going to react

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Speaker 2: and she just like she was engaging. She looked into

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Speaker 2: my soul and we just had the most wonderful conversation

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Speaker 2: and I invited her on the podcast and we are

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Speaker 2: now talking today. She lives in southern California. She is

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Speaker 2: the niece of June Hunt. You might know June Hunt.

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Speaker 2: She runs an organization called Hope for the Heart. June

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Speaker 2: has a radio program that has been on for decades

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Speaker 2: and is one of the sweetest people you will ever meet.

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Speaker 2: And Kimberly the apple does not fall too far from

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Speaker 2: the tree. So we are going to talk about internal

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Speaker 2: family systems, and we're also going to talk about I'm

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Speaker 2: going to pose a question to her at the end

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Speaker 2: that I think is a question I didn't prepare to

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Speaker 2: ask and one I've never asked before but has been

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Speaker 2: kind of ruminating in the back recesses of my mind,

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Speaker 2: and that is this, if we people who struggle with

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Speaker 2: addiction have truly healed, why can't we go back to drinking?

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Speaker 2: Is that ever? Have you ever thought about that? I've

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Speaker 2: thought about that. If I have truly healed and done

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Speaker 2: the work, why can't I go back to drinking? And

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Speaker 2: if I can't go back to drinking. Does that mean

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Speaker 2: a I haven't truly done the work or be something

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Speaker 2: else exactly, And so we're gonna talk about that question.

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Speaker 2: Kim was so gracious she mentions my book Finding Rest,

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Speaker 2: So I know I talk a lot about Confessions of

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Speaker 2: a Christian Alcoholic, the book that this podcast is named after.

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Speaker 2: But if you want to get to Finding Rest as

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Speaker 2: well that she references in this podcast, you can purchase

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Speaker 2: Finding Rest as Well on Amazon, or you can go

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Speaker 2: to find Rest noow dot comfind Rest now dot com.

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Speaker 2: This is such an important conversation about getting to the root,

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Speaker 2: about how we need to invite Jesus into all those

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Speaker 2: parts of ourselves. I say that a lot that comes

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Speaker 2: from Kim, that comes from her work. This is foundational

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Speaker 2: to the work that I do today. So please please

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Speaker 2: engage with this episode and enjoy the conversation with Kim Miller. Kim,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining the Confessions of a

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Speaker 2: Christian Alcoholic podcast. Like I there are you know, there

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Speaker 2: are people you meet and there are people that you

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Speaker 2: get a chance to talk to you that have changed

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Speaker 2: your life and the Lord has used you in that way,

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Speaker 2: and this is just an absolute treat. Thank you well.

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Speaker 3: Thank you John so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: I truly admire your work and your books and your podcast,

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Speaker 1: and it's just a pleasure to meet you at conference

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Speaker 1: recently and I'm just so glad we have this chance

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Speaker 1: to talk.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, thank you for those Now. I did a

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Speaker 2: little bit of an introduction obviously talked about the book,

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Speaker 2: but just just kind of give an overview of the

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Speaker 2: work that you do in the space that you do it.

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Speaker 1: Sure well, I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, and

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Speaker 1: I and my co author Ali and Cook wrote a

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Speaker 1: book that is introducing a method called Internal Family Systems

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Speaker 1: Therapy to the church. It's IFS from a Christ centered perspective.

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Speaker 1: So IFS falls into the subcategory of psychological methods called

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Speaker 1: parts work, which is a way of looking at the

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Speaker 1: human person as having different parts and focusing in on

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Speaker 1: one part at a time or then potentially like a

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Speaker 1: cluster around that initial focus part. And then and then

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Speaker 1: from a Christ centered perspective, we invite the Lord to

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Speaker 1: minister to that part or to be present with that part.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's a form of interhaling prayer. Really, people

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Speaker 1: may have heard of like Soso ministries, these methods of

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Speaker 1: focusing on a particular area of the soul. Oftentimes it's

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Speaker 1: around a particular memory, and then inviting Jesus to be

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Speaker 1: their minister to the person so that the power of

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Speaker 1: God and the blessing of God reaches the place in

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Speaker 1: the soul where the person needs him the most.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay, so let's start there, right, So I

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Speaker 2: want to unpack a little bit because I'll be honest.

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Speaker 2: When my Christian therapist first introduced something called parts work,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, are you wanting me to be like schizophrenic? Like,

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Speaker 2: are you like multiple personalities here? So explain to someone,

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Speaker 2: Explain to the audience what does parts work mean? And

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Speaker 2: for those who are a little skeptical or it sounds like,

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Speaker 2: you know, you're talking to yourself, like what what is

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Speaker 2: parts work?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, if you think about it, everyone has self talk.

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Speaker 1: We all can have this internal conversation going on in

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Speaker 1: our heads. We all have thoughts about ourselves. The psawmust says,

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Speaker 1: praise the Lord, Oh my soul, Why are you down?

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Speaker 1: Oh my soul?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: So, and nobody said, oh, you know, David is schizophrenic.

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Speaker 1: So schizophrenia is like a diagnosis when from an ifs perspective,

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Speaker 1: we would say like parts are stuck in extreme roles

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Speaker 1: because of trauma and so so much so that they

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Speaker 1: don't even know each other.

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Speaker 3: But at a less extreme.

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Speaker 1: Level, one would say that we all experience trauma, little tea,

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Speaker 1: or just woundedness throughout life, and when that happens, parts

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Speaker 1: of us get stuck in time at those ages, and

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Speaker 1: so we all walk around with parts that are younger

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Speaker 1: that are carrying memories from the past when we we

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Speaker 1: were hurt, and so that's a very normal human experiences.

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Speaker 1: It's the it is the human experience to have different

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Speaker 1: parts of us that have different thoughts and feelings, whether

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Speaker 1: we're talking about wounded parts, or we could also be

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Speaker 1: talking about just parts with different roles and parts with

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Speaker 1: different preferences. You know, you like, one night, you may

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Speaker 1: have a part that wants to like stay home and

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Speaker 1: watch a football game, and you may have a part

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Speaker 1: that would really like to be, you know, playing with

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Speaker 1: your child that at that same night, And so you

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Speaker 1: could say, oh, I have two different parts that have

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Speaker 1: different feelings, or may have a part that feels really

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Speaker 1: responsible and a part that wants to check out. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's just a language that a particular psychologist

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Speaker 1: developed because he noticed his clients would talk like this

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Speaker 1: and say, well, there's a part of me that wants

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Speaker 1: to say He was actually working with eating disorder clients

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Speaker 1: and saying, oh, the part of me wants to really

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Speaker 1: like binge and purge, and a part of me wants

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Speaker 1: to restrict. And so that's where he got the language,

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Speaker 1: and it became a really popular method because everybody realizes, oh,

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Speaker 1: we all have these parts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, okay, that's interesting. I didn't know that history

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Speaker 2: because I think maybe perhaps that's why it's been so beneficial,

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Speaker 2: is to know that that langue whig was in a

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Speaker 2: sense birthed out of addiction talk.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and I was talking about ifs just now, I

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Speaker 1: mean parts work goes really far back. The first person

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Speaker 1: to well, let's start with Freud, I mean Freud, the

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Speaker 1: founder of psychology, said well, we have an ego. It's

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Speaker 1: super ego. So he was already mapping the soul. And

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Speaker 1: then Carl Jung, who came soon after him, said he

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Speaker 1: was the first person to say we have an inner child.

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Speaker 1: And then there are developments after that, like transactional analys

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Speaker 1: said we have the interparent inner child. And there's voice

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Speaker 1: dialogue and the gestall, which is like seeing some part

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Speaker 1: of you sitting in a chair across from you and

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Speaker 1: seeing what you would say to that part of you.

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Speaker 1: And internal family systems is kind of the latest iteration

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Speaker 1: of parts work.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you have and if you're watching this episode,

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Speaker 2: which I encourage you to do, you can do it

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Speaker 2: at the Veritas Daily dot com. In the back of

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Speaker 2: boundaries for your Soul. Just a very helpful graphic. I

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Speaker 2: love graphics. Right, So you have this and I'm holding

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Speaker 2: this up for everyone to see, but you have this

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Speaker 2: map of the soul, and you talk about managers, firefighters,

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Speaker 2: and exiles kind of coming around this spirit led self.

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Speaker 2: Can you explain what you mean by those three things, managers, firefighters,

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Speaker 2: and exiles as well as the spirit led self?

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Speaker 3: Sure?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we've established that we all have parts of

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Speaker 1: our souls if you really think about it, we have

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Speaker 1: parts that play different roles in three different categories. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is just one way to think about

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Speaker 1: the human soul. And it's not gospel truth, and I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't say it's right.

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Speaker 3: It's just.

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Speaker 1: It's helpful for a lot of people. And I encourage

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Speaker 1: your listeners to get try it on for size. The

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Speaker 1: idea is that we have protect your parts and more

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Speaker 1: vulnerable parts. The protector parts are divided into two categories,

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Speaker 1: which are managers, the parts that are really good at

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Speaker 1: getting things done, and the firefighter parts, which want to

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Speaker 1: just escape.

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Speaker 4: And that that was me and a lot of firefighters

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Speaker 4: going on and most we all have all of them,

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Speaker 4: you know, and we just have them in different degrees

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Speaker 4: at different times. And then we all have what we

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Speaker 4: call exile parts, which are the tend to be the

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Speaker 4: younger parts, the parts that are more wounded and are

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Speaker 4: not front and center. They're more hidden, and those are

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Speaker 4: the parts that we need to be spending extra time

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Speaker 4: giving attention to because they're lonely and they're hurting, and

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Speaker 4: they're going to cause our protector parts to become more extreme.

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Speaker 1: The goal is for all the parts to be living

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Speaker 1: harmoniously and all getting attention equally, and be working together

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Speaker 1: as a team like a functional fan. So the reason

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Speaker 1: why it's called internal family systems therapy is because we're

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Speaker 1: applying family systems therapy to the inner life, and in

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Speaker 1: a healthy family system, everyone is important, everyone plays a

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Speaker 1: role and is working together right and respects one another.

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Speaker 1: And the same is true for our inner world. None

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Speaker 1: of these parts are bad. What they can veer off

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Speaker 1: course from the path that God would have for them,

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Speaker 1: and so they can do harmful things which we would

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Speaker 1: call sin. But they are all parts of you and

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Speaker 1: God created you, and so they're good.

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Speaker 3: Just like a child. It's a help A child is

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Speaker 3: a helpful analogy.

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Speaker 1: They're younger, you know, they're younger, and they you don't

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Speaker 1: want to get rid of a child if they misbehave

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Speaker 1: you want to connect and redirect, which was a dance

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Speaker 1: seagull phrase.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, So can you explain the difference between a

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Speaker 2: manager and a firefighter?

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Speaker 3: Sure?

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Speaker 2: Yees.

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Speaker 1: So the managers make plans, they ruminate, you know, they

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Speaker 1: they present you well to the world. So right now,

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Speaker 1: the right now, we're most likely driven by manager parts

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. Hopefully that are healthy manager parts that are

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Speaker 1: thinking about how can we help our listeners. What's a

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Speaker 1: constructive thing to say right now? So we're in this

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Speaker 1: mode as manager mode right now. And the church is

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Speaker 1: largely manager driven.

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Speaker 3: It's driven.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you go to church, you see a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that are that are kind of leading

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Speaker 1: with their manager parts most likely in the moment. So

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Speaker 1: manager parts make lists, make grocery lists, make to do lists.

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Speaker 1: You know, there are personal representatives and the firefighter parts

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Speaker 1: are parts that step in when there's pain to try

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Speaker 1: to extinguish the flames of painful emotions through feel good behaviors.

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Speaker 1: And oftentimes these parts can be polarized with each other.

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Speaker 1: So the firefighters are are the extreme. Extreme, working out

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Speaker 1: parts are extreme. Cleaning parts are addictive parts. So the

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Speaker 1: parts that drink a lot, that over ea, that might

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Speaker 1: do drugs, and these are all.

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Speaker 3: Any any mood altering.

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Speaker 1: Behavior is a firefighter part because the goal of a

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Speaker 1: firefighter is to change the state of the person and

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Speaker 1: to move the person from a place of pain to

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Speaker 1: a place of relief, to get relief. And the behaviors

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Speaker 1: are not always unhelpful unhealthy, but it's when they become

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Speaker 1: extreme that they are unhealthy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And so then explain how you know it's

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Speaker 2: it's become such a buzzword now these days, and I

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Speaker 2: think that's unfortunate because we miss the importance of it.

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Speaker 2: But there's that triggered right and and I think because

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Speaker 2: it's overused, because it's not used properly. Now we throw

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Speaker 2: the baby out with the bathwater. But yet I think

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Speaker 2: through your work and reading boundaries for your soul, what

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Speaker 2: I've come to understand is no, that that's a real thing, right,

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Speaker 2: And so explain how triggers in a sense trigger firefighters.

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Speaker 2: Like we encounter something, we are triggered, and then a

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Speaker 2: firefighter steps in. Can you explain that process. We'll be

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Speaker 2: right back after this.

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Speaker 1: I like the word activate because because you're right, trigger

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Speaker 1: has some word trigger has some baggage around it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it's also I said, it suggests me that that

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Speaker 1: things are more black and white than they really are,

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Speaker 1: because oftentimes it's more like a relationship. There's relationship internally,

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Speaker 1: and the question is what what part is really speaking

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Speaker 1: the moment more loudly than other parts, you know. But

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Speaker 1: I think just to answer your question, when you know,

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Speaker 1: when something happens in life that is painful, like for example,

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Speaker 1: if you're needed in a certain way and you don't

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Speaker 1: get to do what you would prefer to be doing

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Speaker 1: in the moment, you might have a part that shows

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Speaker 1: up that tries to help you check out of that feeling,

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Speaker 1: and so you have a desire to escape in some

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Speaker 1: feel good behavior. I mean even could be literally wanting

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Speaker 1: to run away or wanting to reach for a favorite substance,

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Speaker 1: and it's just a very very common experience. And I

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Speaker 1: could go on about like what I think is helpful

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Speaker 1: in those moments, please do I mean, what I was

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Speaker 1: going to just say where my mind was going was

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Speaker 1: the like a goal would be to find those healthy

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Speaker 1: ways to cope, healthy coping mechanisms. But however, that can

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Speaker 1: be a manager part that it's doing that, and so

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Speaker 1: so you know, making a good plan, and so you're

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Speaker 1: always wanting to work with all the parts at the

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Speaker 1: same time in a given moment and be checking in

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Speaker 1: with manager parts that are making plans, you know, and

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Speaker 1: to to help preserve you, checking in with the fire

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Speaker 1: fighter parts that are wanting to to make you feel better,

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Speaker 1: and checking in with those Excel parts that are surfacing

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Speaker 1: that are causing those protectors to come online. And then

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Speaker 1: I haven't even mentioned the self. So i FS has

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Speaker 1: its concept of the self that's sort of the sacred center,

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Speaker 1: and the self is an active agent but brings a

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Speaker 1: sense of calm, curiosity, compassion, and clarity.

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Speaker 2: Connection those two words compassion and curiosity, I think passion

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Speaker 2: in currier is really huge.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And.

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Speaker 1: I encourage folks to start with curiosity because compassion can

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Speaker 1: be a reach sometimes when when they're blended with a part.

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Speaker 1: But to start getting curious, you know, Curiosity, I would

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Speaker 1: say is probably my favorite word. It's really good in

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Speaker 1: terms of how to how to become more like Jesus

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Speaker 1: is starting with curiosity about your own hearts. That is

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Speaker 1: a great place to start, you know, and taking a

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Speaker 1: U turn no matter what the circumstances is. Like psychologists

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Speaker 1: have said, the ninety percent of our reactivity is actually

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Speaker 1: about something that's going on with inside of us as

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Speaker 1: opposed to externally. So just first, no matter what a

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Speaker 1: situation calls for, what action it calls for, to start

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Speaker 1: with a curiosity, like, oh, what's going on with me

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Speaker 1: that I'm having these emotions about this situation?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? That has been I think one of one of

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Speaker 2: there's plenty, one of the most important things that I've

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Speaker 2: taken and put into practice is having a curiosity. Why

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Speaker 2: am I feeling this way? My wife and I just

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Speaker 2: this past weekend, we're out at dinner and you know,

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Speaker 2: she's like, hey, you know, for your fortieth birthday, do

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Speaker 2: you want like a big party and whatnot, right, And

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Speaker 2: because I have always been considered and considered myself an extrovert,

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Speaker 2: and yet I was like, you know, I really don't.

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Speaker 2: And I said, you know, maybe we do something as

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Speaker 2: a family. If you want my friends to record something

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Speaker 2: and we play it on the TV. Fine, and she

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Speaker 2: was like that's she goes, I'm really surprised, and I

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Speaker 2: immediately found myself getting slightly defensive because I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: do not know me, you know, but I got curious

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Speaker 2: about that, and over the course of twenty four hours,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, you know what, She's right. I used

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Speaker 2: to be very extroverted, and now, even you know, since

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Speaker 2: getting sober, I still find myself. You know, I used

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Speaker 2: to think, well, I became less extroverted because I was

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Speaker 2: drinking and I just wanted to, you know, go internal

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Speaker 2: and find excuse to drink and not go out. And

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Speaker 2: that can be true. But I've also found now since

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Speaker 2: getting healthy, that I don't want to go out as

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Speaker 2: much and be around people. And so I got curious

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Speaker 2: about that and I started praying through that, and the

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Speaker 2: Lord revealed like, because before alcohol was my drug, people

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Speaker 2: were because I didn't know how to sit with myself.

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Speaker 2: So I didn't know how to be alone and sit

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Speaker 2: with myself and my own thoughts. So before I turned

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Speaker 2: to alcohol for years, I just turned to I just

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Speaker 2: needed to be around people because I got to stand

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Speaker 2: in the silence.

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Speaker 3: No great awareness about yourself. Yeah yeah, but that.

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Speaker 2: Was because I got here, Like I took that initial defensiveness, well,

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Speaker 2: why you're my wife, you should know me? Are you

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Speaker 2: judging me? Like what? And I said, okay, Lord, why

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Speaker 2: she's actually right? But why let's go deeper? And gosh,

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Speaker 2: it just opened it. Like I'm still reeling from this realization,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm like, wow, what and what an incredible concept

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Speaker 1: to ponder and what a treasure you got out of

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Speaker 1: that experience, which is realizing how much you've grown and

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Speaker 1: the self respect of knowing, Wow, I used to not

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Speaker 1: be able to sit with my own thoughts and now

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Speaker 1: I can. Like that's yeah, that's growth, and that's what

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Speaker 1: the Lord asks us to do, is to grow more mature,

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Speaker 1: and you're doing it and way to go, you know,

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Speaker 1: And you wouldn't have you wouldn't have realized that amazing

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Speaker 1: growth in yourself unless you had gotten curious, right and

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Speaker 1: it's amazing how other people respond so positively when we

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Speaker 1: get curious. I'm guessing that your relationship with your wife

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Speaker 1: is better because that was your reaction as opposed to

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Speaker 1: if you had expressed irritability, you know, and then she

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Speaker 1: learned from it, and now she's going to want to

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Speaker 1: get curious about herself.

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Speaker 3: It's contagious, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is, and it's so much more attractive,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's so much better for bonding and just

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Speaker 1: connecting with people. And you know, there's a great, a

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Speaker 1: great phrase in the IFS community. The opposite of addiction

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Speaker 1: is not sobriety, but it's connection.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Johan Harry okay, did a Ted talk about this?

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay, thanks, I didn't know that reference. So

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Speaker 1: curiosity makes us so much more easy to relate to,

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Speaker 1: you know, it makes us easier for other people to

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Speaker 1: relate to, whereas there's nothing that can kill a relation

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Speaker 1: to more than criticism, shamee blaming criticism. And it's also

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Speaker 1: you know, biblical, like Matthew seven, Jesus says, you know,

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Speaker 1: why are you focusing on this speck in your neighbor's eye?

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Speaker 1: You know, take a look at the plank in your

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Speaker 1: own eye, but before you talk to your neighbor. So

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Speaker 1: he's not saying don't confront people, but he's he's really

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Speaker 1: encouraging us in inviting us to to look at our

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Speaker 1: hearts and Psalm one point nine, search me, o, God,

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Speaker 1: know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive

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Speaker 1: way in me, and lead me in the way of olasting.

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Speaker 1: Socrates said, the unexamined life is not worth living. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's a good thing to examine our own souls

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Speaker 1: and understand, like, why am I getting reactive in this moment?

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Speaker 2: And it's hard.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be really hard to do, right, because

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Speaker 1: it's it's our natural tendency is to blame.

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Speaker 2: So what do we do? Okay, let's talk about the exiles.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about the managers. You know, those are kind

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Speaker 2: of those Maybe I'm just seeing this wrong, correct me,

437
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,959
Speaker 2: But the parts that we generally can can look at

438
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 2: is healthy. Right, then get things. The firefighters come in

439
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 2: when things are out of whack, when we feel stuff

440
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 2: we don't want to feel, when we want to escape. Right,

441
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 2: those exiles. What is in exile? And why do we

442
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 2: use that term?

443
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: It's a part of ourselves. That doesn't get very much attention.

444
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: The parts that are lonely, carrying shame, rejection, feelings of

445
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: worthlessness and painful memories from the past, and we exil

446
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: them because they're difficult to think about and other people

447
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 1: may not be able to handle them very well, you know,

448
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: and so.

449
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 3: They might not help our relationships. So they have to

450
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 3: be managed.

451
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: They have to be I tend to be blended with

452
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: manager parts more than any other type of parts.

453
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 3: So there's that.

454
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: I noticed that that I said they have to be managed.

455
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: They need to be welcomed. All parts are welcome and

456
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: invited into a safe space where they can be heard

457
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: and seen and understood and really validated and empathized with.

458
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: And then also to get to know Jesus, because this

459
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: is a very interesting thing, John, is that parts don't

460
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: all know Jesus, even in the in the soul of

461
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: a Christian.

462
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: That is a huge thing you just said there. I

463
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 2: want to make sure people understand that because when I

464
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 2: say in my chapter in Confessions where I say how

465
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 2: does this happen? It's because I hadn't welcomed Jesus into

466
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 2: all the parts of myself. And some people are like,

467
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: what so thank you. Please go on.

468
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, this is this is a phenomenological observation. You know,

469
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: this is something that I have observed, that psychologists have observed,

470
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: and I encourage you to experience yourself through getting to

471
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 1: know your own parts that don't know the Lord and

472
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: know they're working with groups of people you can It's

473
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: it's always true that.

474
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 3: People have parts. Christians have parts.

475
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 1: That don't know the Lord, and when you ask them,

476
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: you know, because you can talk to arts, you can

477
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: really get to know a part of yourself. And if

478
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: you know, if it's behaving in a way that you

479
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: wish you wouldn't, maybe it's because it hasn't met Jesus yet, yes,

480
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: And so inviting him to draw near with the part's permission,

481
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: and if it's afraid to meet Jesus, to have it

482
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: express those fears and ask if it's just willing to

483
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: experiment for a little bit getting to know him, and

484
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: then inviting him to speak and to do his thing

485
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: which is always transformative, and to bring healing. You know, Exodus,

486
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: what is it? Seventh fifteen twenty six. I am the

487
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: Lord who heals you, and that's who he is. He

488
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: established his name as the Lord who heals Jehovah Rapha,

489
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: and he will bring healing where he's welcome and invited,

490
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: just through his love, through the power of connection with him.

491
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: I think if James five sixteen as well, right where

492
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 2: it says confess your sins want to you or another,

493
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 2: not so that you can have peace, not so that

494
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 2: you can have whatever says so that you may be healed. Right. Yeah,

495
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 2: and we talk about those those exiled parts of ourselves. Yeah, yes,

496
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 2: and we confess, Hey, it's feeling this, I'm feeling this way.

497
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,959
Speaker 2: It's feeling this way, I'm doing this. That's where healing

498
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 2: comes in.

499
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's so powerful.

500
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: John, You've been just a role model for so many

501
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: and a leader in being transparent and honest. And I

502
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: want to say I have so much respect for you

503
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: because the people group in the Gospels that Jesus had

504
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: the harshest words for were the Pharisees. Yeah, and it's

505
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: just so so easy to know the Christian language and

506
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: speak speak the Christian vernacular, and especially you're raised you

507
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: in the church and just and never be honest about

508
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: our woundedness.

509
00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so maybe going back a lit a

510
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 2: little bit to those parts of ourselves that don't know

511
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 2: Jesus Theologically? How do we make sense of that? Like,

512
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 2: I don't know if you have is it more of

513
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 2: an observation that you've seen. I just know that some

514
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: people have pushed back on that with me personally, and

515
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily have all the I mean, I went

516
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 2: to seminary, but yet I don't have all the perfect response.

517
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: I'm just curious what your response is, Right, Well, I

518
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 2: don't think that's theologically true, And I'm like, well, I

519
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 2: know it's true for me, and I know it's true

520
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 2: for pretty much every alcoholic I talk to, an attict

521
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: I talk to, is that there are parts of themselves.

522
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: I know it's true for someone like a philipp Yancey,

523
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 2: who can love Jesus and talk about grace, and yet

524
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 2: there are parts of himself that he hasn't introduced to Jesus. Right, So,

525
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 2: how do we make sense of that theologically?

526
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: Well? I like to think of that verse as where

527
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: we're working out our salvation and you're in trembling, and

528
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: also you know that the Kingdom of God is within us,

529
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: and God says to expand the Kingdom of God. So

530
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: we're expanding the Kingdom of God within us as we

531
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: introduce Jesus to parts of ourselves through internal evangelization. Yeah,

532
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: I mean it's I don't know that there's a scripture verse.

533
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: There's not a scripture verse that says, you know, we

534
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: have parts of us that don't Jesus.

535
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: Right.

536
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: But again, when I say this is phenomenological, what I'm

537
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: saying is like it's a it's a way of thinking

538
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: that can be helpful so that you can get clarity

539
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: about what's going on inside you and help yourself become

540
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: more like Christ because we're all about sanctification and becoming

541
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: more mature.

542
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 3: Right.

543
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: And that's because that's what God wants from us, and

544
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: and and so what what works. Let's just do whatever works,

545
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: whatever helps us become more like Jesus.

546
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 4: Right.

547
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: And I'm not going to die on the hill of

548
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: saying we have arts that don't know Jesus. You know,

549
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: if there's a theological debate, I'm not going to say,

550
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: and that's that's the hallmark or the corner stone of

551
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: my theology. No, it's I'm not even sure it's a

552
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: theological statement. But I'm just saying it's how people are.

553
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: And I've experienced it. I've witnessed it over and over

554
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: again that when I'm working so in the in the

555
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: process of working with a part, you really listen to

556
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: the part and get to know it. And there's a

557
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: lot of times I would say it's the norm that

558
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: when you're working with a part that's presenting itself for

559
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: healing because it needs help, it usually hasn't met Christ yet.

560
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: Sometimes that it has, but just once more of Him

561
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: or needs to get healed more, or spend more time

562
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: in his presence, but oftentimes just doesn't know him.

563
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,479
Speaker 2: So yep, and I think you nailed it with the

564
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 2: idea of sanctification, right if if all the parts of

565
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: ourselves were introduced to Jesus perfectly, Like let's just even

566
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 2: say that, right, So, let's just even give the fact that,

567
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 2: like you become a Christian and suddenly all the parts

568
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: of yourselves know Jesus at least a little bit, right, Well,

569
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 2: you wouldn't need sanctification, Like that wouldn't be a thing

570
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 2: if it was if they all knew him perfectly, you

571
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like, right, because sanctification is that

572
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: ongoing press are becoming more like Jesus. So there has

573
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 2: to be parts of yourself that don't know him perfectly.

574
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 3: Otherwise you wouldn't need sanctification, right exactly.

575
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: I mean when you humble your heart before the Lord

576
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: and decide to follow him, and you believe in him

577
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: and give your life to him, you become sanctified in

578
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: his eyes. If you're in Christ, you are beloved. He

579
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: sees you as he sees Jesus. And that's the theological truth,

580
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: the biblical truth. And at the same time, there's areas

581
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: of your life where we still need to work out

582
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: holiness and become more and more to fight, and that's

583
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: that's where the parts work comes in.

584
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, you. I want to go back

585
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 2: to a phrase you used because I think you have

586
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 2: I think it's at least a whole chapter on this,

587
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 2: but you and Alison in the book talk about how

588
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 2: you guys do it, but it's it's making a U turn.

589
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: You use that phrase and taking a U turn. Yeah yeah,

590
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: taking a U turn. Explain what it means. I guess

591
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 2: that's part two. The five steps of taking a U turn.

592
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 2: Explain what it means to take a U turn and

593
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 2: how we do that.

594
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: All right, So there's five steps to a U turn.

595
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 3: But it.

596
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: It starts with just noticing what you're feeling physically in

597
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: a moment. Because God made us psychosomatic beings, I subscribe

598
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: to a biopsychosocial, spiritual model of the human person. So

599
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: and it's all interrelated, yes, And it's like it's a

600
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: if you're good thought to be attacked by a tiger,

601
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: you start to have a rapid heartbeat, right, So if

602
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: somebody is rude to you, cuts you off on the highlight,

603
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: you might feel tightness or tension in your shoulders, for example.

604
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 1: So it's starting with what you're experiencing physically is always helpful,

605
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: and that is a way of starting to take a

606
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 1: U turn and then considering the idea that the feeling

607
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: that you're having belongs to just one part of you,

608
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: and then focusing on that part. So the first step

609
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: is to focus and then.

610
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 3: Excuse me.

611
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: Then the next step is to be friend that part,

612
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: which is to ask yourself how am I feeling toward it?

613
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: And if you're feeling critical, then ask that inner critic

614
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: to step aside and return to the target part and

615
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 1: become curious about it. So that's focus and be friend.

616
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 1: And then the third step is to invite Jesus, Focus, befriend, invite,

617
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: invite Jesus to be with it, and then to unburden it.

618
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: So parts are carrying painful thoughts and feelings and memories.

619
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: Invite a part to get those burdens to the Lord

620
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,479
Speaker 1: to release them somehow, cast your cares on him because

621
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:17,399
Speaker 1: he cares for you. And this is in One Peter,

622
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: chapter five, verse eight, seven and eight. And then the

623
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: last step is integrate, which is to kind of bring

624
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: back in that inner critic and say, well, how are

625
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: you feeling now toward that original part? Because we want

626
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: just like the family, we want all the family members

627
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: to get along in the internal family. So focus, befriend, invite, unburdened, integrate.

628
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: And you can do this with a with a therapist,

629
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: or you could do it on yourself. You could work

630
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 1: through the steps on a piece of paper again in journal.

631
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and is the concept, you know, because it's a

632
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: U turn, is you're like, hey, for most of your

633
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 2: life you've started to feel that you've encountered a activation

634
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 2: and activating event, and ninety nine times out of one

635
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 2: hundred you've always kind of gone down this road and

636
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 2: it's led to this, And so it's like you know what,

637
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 2: maybe let's stop, let's pause and see if we can

638
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 2: turn back, right.

639
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,959
Speaker 3: I mean, that's the exactly exactly take a U turn.

640
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: So we tend to focus on other people and be

641
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: critical of other people. That's our natural state of mind.

642
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: And that taking a U turn is that intentional examining

643
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: of your of the plank in your own eye, which

644
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: Jesus called us to do. So it's saying, wait, I'm

645
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 1: going to stop for a second and just become curious

646
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: about what's activating me and why am I feeling activated

647
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: about this? It might have had something to do with

648
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: my past, and to focus on one part that is

649
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: activated and get to know it just like a child,

650
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 1: just like I would get to know a child.

651
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I had this. I had this happen like

652
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 2: last year where I'm picking my kids up from school

653
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 2: and there's someone who is parked in front of a

654
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 2: fire hydrant. Okay, like okay, parked, and I just I

655
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 2: literally felt myself get activated. Yeah, I'm like, what are you? Like?

656
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 2: Come on right? And so I started getting I felt

657
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 2: I felt, I felt it in my body like all

658
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: this stuff and I and I paused and I was like,

659
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 2: okay again get curious, why right? Why is this working

660
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 2: me up and activating me so much? I mean I

661
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 2: literally was like starting to shake, not out of anger,

662
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 2: just like I was getting very anxious. And you know,

663
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 2: I did some of the the work that you're talking about,

664
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 2: and I just came to the understand of like I

665
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 2: would always say, I'm a very justice orient right, And

666
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 2: I think this is an important point too where we

667
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 2: can we can go one level deeper and be like, well,

668
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 2: John's a justice oriented person, right, Okay, but why right?

669
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 2: It's like that five year old that's always asking why,

670
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: just keep asking why right? And basically through all of

671
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 2: the work that I did in the subsequent day, it's like,

672
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 2: because there were things that were done to me when

673
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 2: I was a kid that I just that were in

674
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 2: just right, and so then when I see something that

675
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 2: that that like someone getting away with something, it activates me.

676
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 2: You know, I started doing some of the wors like

677
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 2: and that brings me to this question, which is when

678
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,959
Speaker 2: it comes to exiles. When it comes to those things,

679
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 2: are they generally things that have happened to us in

680
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 2: our childhood, in our younger years, or or can it

681
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 2: be stuff that happens later or or it's mostly stuff

682
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: that happens to your child. How does that factor in?

683
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: I would say the the younger we are when things

684
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: happen to us, and the more serious they are, the

685
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: stronger the feelings are, and the more often those feelings

686
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: show up, and they also shape our personalities.

687
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, and I think you've you talked about in

688
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,439
Speaker 2: the book maybe like we have that meaning making part

689
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 2: of our brain and so explain that.

690
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's a manager part that's trying to

691
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: understand and make sense of what happened when we were young.

692
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 2: What this means? Hey, yes happened. What does this mean? Yeah?

693
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, And and getting to the root of

694
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: it can be very helpful because it's not it's not

695
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: to blame. And again the point is not to blame,

696
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: but it's just to understand yourself and what needs were

697
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: met so that you can work toward getting those met

698
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: in christ and in Christian community now, because if you

699
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 1: don't know what the problem is, you might not know

700
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: what the solution is.

701
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 2: That's a great line. That's a great line for someone

702
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 2: who's listening to this. He wants to do I F

703
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: S and and you can correct me if I'm wrong,

704
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 2: but I feel like at least the way my therapist

705
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 2: did E. MDR was very tied into i f S.

706
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 2: What's the difference between doing i f S from a

707
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 2: strictly secular perspective and doing i f S parts work

708
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 2: from a Christian perspective.

709
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 1: Without the Christian integration component, the parts are really connecting

710
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: to the self. So the focus in the therapy is

711
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: on the self to part connection. So being present with

712
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: apart from yourself gets yourself getting curious about your part,

713
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 1: and resourcing the part with the qualities of yourself, which

714
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: are that curiosity, compassion, connection, et cetera. With the Christian

715
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: integration component, we're focusing on inviting the Lord Jesus to

716
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: be present with the part. And so while we do

717
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: focus on that self to part connection, we also then

718
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: take another step, which is really to develop that part

719
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: to christ connection and the self is there's less pressure

720
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: on the self because the Lord is doing more of

721
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: the healing. Now in traditional you know, you know i FS,

722
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: it's not integrated with Christianity. There is a resourcing component,

723
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:59,720
Speaker 1: and there's even the concept of inviting in like positive

724
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 1: qualities and even like the memory of people in your life,

725
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 1: like your grandmother that may have been loving, or somebody

726
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:08,720
Speaker 1: in your life that may have been a positive person.

727
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: And so that that's the inviting step in I F. S. M.

728
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: What Alison and I were encouraging in our book was

729
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: to focus on inviting Christ, specifically in using the name.

730
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 2: Of the Lord.

731
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: And although I will say for some clients and for

732
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: some people, there is baggage around the name of Jesus,

733
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: and so while there's power in the name, there can

734
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: also be emotions about a name, And for a person

735
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: who's maybe just exploring Christianity or has woundedness from the church,

736
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: it could be that even using Christ versus Jesus, or

737
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: using the term sacred presence, or there might be parts

738
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 1: around saying the Lord that the Lord that that term

739
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: may sound sort of sort of a certain type of evangelical,

740
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: even though it's very biblical. So the whole point is

741
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: to stay biblical and theologically sound while also exploring what

742
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: feels what feels helpful to the parts of the system.

743
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, right, Going to the title of the book,

744
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: Boundaries for Your Soul, Okay, I think at first glance,

745
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 2: you're like, Okay, where am I? So what does that mean?

746
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 2: To set up boundaries. I mean, John Townsend obviously has

747
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 2: done a lot of work and John Townsend blessed. The

748
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 2: title of this book is you and I talked about

749
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 2: at the conference. What does it mean to set boundaries

750
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 2: within your soul?

751
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,720
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, well it's.

752
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: It's about having all the parts be welcome and honored

753
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: as a family system, just like in a family, and

754
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: not having a particular part like take over this system,

755
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: and not having any part that is to exile. So

756
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: not no part that is too close, no part that's

757
00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: too far from the self. So just like in a family,

758
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 1: there can be a person that dominates or even in

759
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: a group. You know, we don't want any one part

760
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: to dominate the whole system. So we want to set

761
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: healthy boundaries and say, well, like if there's a part

762
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: that's dominating, like for me, it's usually my manager part

763
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: that's dominating, I won't want to ask. Or if there's

764
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: a firefighter part that's dominating and it's kind of ruling,

765
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: like driving the bus, like really, my whole life is

766
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: revolving around when I can have my next drink, Like

767
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: that's if that's the the mo like the system, then

768
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: we're wanting to set a healthy boundary with that part

769
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: and say let me you know, let's work with that

770
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: part too. Say, okay, what if we had a drink

771
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: in moderation once, you know, once a week or something

772
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 1: like that or however often is actually helpful and healthy,

773
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: but also make room for the manager that wants to

774
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 1: get some things done today, you know, and make some

775
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: room for the exiles. So it's it's about setting healthy

776
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: boundaries internally.

777
00:45:55,560 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think that for a lot of us

778
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 2: who you know, struggle with addiction, it it can come

779
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 2: down to not wanting to be uncomfortable, right. I think

780
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 2: that was for me, right, I wanted to escape. I say,

781
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 2: my ultimate addiction was to escapism. Right, And so how

782
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 2: do we learn to sit with those uncomfortable parts of ourselves?

783
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 3: Oh, that's a it's a good question.

784
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,879
Speaker 1: I don't thought I've ever really been asked that specific question.

785
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after this.

786
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: Well, to get curious, to get curious about what the

787
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 1: discomfort is about and really exploring exploring that feeling, I

788
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: would ask what part is uncomfortable and can it share more?

789
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: Can it share more about why it's uncomfortable and what

790
00:46:55,480 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: is it afraid? Would happen, what are its fears? What

791
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: are its hopes? And then how can I how can

792
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: I resource this part? Like, how how can I help

793
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: the part to get it? It's its needs me to

794
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: help it to fulfill its dreams? Yeah, maybe set healthy limits,

795
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: so really getting to know it, really getting to know

796
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: honoring and getting to know it better.

797
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 2: And you've you use that terminalot and honoring honoring that part, right,

798
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 2: not trying to beat that part down, because I think

799
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 2: what what you make clear is the firefighter parts are

800
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,879
Speaker 2: really I mean, they're trying to help right right right

801
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 2: doing it. They're doing it the only way they.

802
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 3: Know how, but that help may not be helpful, right right,

803
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 3: And so it's.

804
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,240
Speaker 2: Not beating that part down, but it's saying hey, it's

805
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 2: I mean, in a sense, it's kind of showing them

806
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 2: a different way or saying hey, And you talk about

807
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 2: this book.

808
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: Like you just needed to sit down right right, Well, well,

809
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: well there's so much shame, and shame is not helpful

810
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 1: and it doesn't help us become more like Christ. So

811
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: I was really blown away one time when I heard

812
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 1: Dick Schwartz speak. He's the founder of the IFS, and

813
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: he was talking about suicide. And he was talking about

814
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: how ifs approaches suicide differently, and he said, what if

815
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: we actually respected parts that are suicidal because they're trying

816
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: to get the person to survive. They're actually trying, they're trying.

817
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 1: Their intention is to help the person survive. Now, that's

818
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,839
Speaker 1: not to encourage the behavior that it wants to do,

819
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 1: but immediately the shame just dissipates, and a person who's

820
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: actually feeling in so much pain that they want to

821
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 1: escape life to be told, wow, I admire that you

822
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: want to live. You know that this part of you

823
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: that's wanting to escape wants to live, And I admire

824
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: that you're trying to come up with something that reduces

825
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: the shame. And then you can work. Then you we're

826
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,879
Speaker 1: building a relationship, and then you can begin to talk

827
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: about all right, well, let's connect more. And it's the

828
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: connection that heals, that brings healing to that desire to escape,

829
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: and then there's no longer than the desire to to die,

830
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: you know. And that's I mean, such a radical concept,

831
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: but the same goes for addiction, Like, what if we

832
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 1: honored the part for its intention to help? Yeah, the

833
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: part that's discomfort, part that's uncomfortable and feeling discomfort and

834
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: then get to know it better and then automatically that

835
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,720
Speaker 1: sense of shame is reduced, right, and then asking like, Okay,

836
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 1: what are some more help? Do I really want to

837
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: drink that much? Because I'm going to feel terrible in

838
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: the morning. You know what if I tried it a

839
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: really you know, a really good in her or something,

840
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: you know, to try something else, like another creative My

841
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: aunt June who you mentioned, My aunt June Hunt.

842
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 3: She taught me this phrase creative.

843
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: Alternatives, And I just love it because it's so often

844
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: I might think of something and it's maybe not really

845
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 1: that good for me, but I say, oh, I want

846
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 1: it for this reason.

847
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 3: Well what's a creative alternative?

848
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 1: You know?

849
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 2: Yeah?

850
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: And I can come up with something like I'm really

851
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: wanting a glass of wine with a steak, because hard

852
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: to have steak without a glass of wine.

853
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 3: What if I have like some.

854
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: Really really good like grape juice, or you know, like

855
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: I have this like really good gojieberry juice that I

856
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: get from Young Living.

857
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know they make the essential oils, and

858
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 3: that does it for me? John?

859
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: You know, like I used to say, I have to

860
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 1: have a glass of wine misteak, but then it interrupts

861
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: my sleep and the wine interrupts my sleep, and I'm like,

862
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 1: I really wish I could have that great flavor of

863
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 1: a drink without the sleep interaction.

864
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 3: Well, I've found something that works. It's a creative alternative,

865
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 3: you know.

866
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,839
Speaker 1: And so then so as opposed to saying like, I'm

867
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 1: so mad at myself for wanting to have a goss

868
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: of wine again, you.

869
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 2: Are there? Have you encountered critics of these parts of

870
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 2: their of ourselves conversation that say, well, you're just no,

871
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 2: you're being too permissive, Like no, you need to you

872
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:18,879
Speaker 2: need to be harsher on these people, and like how

873
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 2: do we respond to that?

874
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 3: Sure?

875
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: I mean there's a there's a whole debate within the

876
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: like addiction and psychology fields about how to respond to addiction,

877
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: you know, addiction or addictive behaviors or processes, and people

878
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: have debates and arguments about what is the most effective

879
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 1: strategy that the typical method in the therapy community is

880
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 1: to make with someone who is addictive or suicidal. Is

881
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,280
Speaker 1: to I just brought in suicide, but we're really focusing

882
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: on addiction. Is to create a contract you know or

883
00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: to to agree to go cold turkey, and and then

884
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: and there's like the twelve step program, it's all about

885
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 1: sobriety and like how many days can you go without drinking?

886
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: But what the IFS community would say is, well, then

887
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: that's just encouraging those manager parts to step in to

888
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,800
Speaker 1: the lead, which is going to then activate the firefighter

889
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: parts even more because there's going to be an increased

890
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: polarization within the internal system. And what we need is

891
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: to check in with all the parts, get all the

892
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: parts on board to create internal harmony and connection, which

893
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: is healing, and there'll be less of a need for

894
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: the addictive behavior in the first place. So you know,

895
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: you know, and I mean maybe that there's a role

896
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 1: for our contracts and there's a role for the twelve

897
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: step group, and it's one piece.

898
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:53,879
Speaker 3: There's one part.

899
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 1: But let's continue to work ourselves around the tryad to

900
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: check in with all the parts, just like we check

901
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 1: in with all members of a family. What if, like

902
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 1: what if nobody ever spoke to the kids at a

903
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: family dinner table, right, or nobody ever asked the mom

904
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: like how was your day? You know, like or if

905
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 1: like the dad was just ignored because there was a

906
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: strong parent and daughter mother child connection like that. If

907
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: any part is being ignored, that's not going to be

908
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 1: healthy for the whole family. So you want to constaly

909
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 1: each Okay, so I made this contract to behave well,

910
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, I agreed to go to my twelve step

911
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: meeting every day this week or whatever that's our check.

912
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 1: Agreed to check in with my sponsor. Sure, those are

913
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 1: good things, but let's check in.

914
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 3: How does the firefighter feel about that?

915
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 2: Yeah?

916
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 3: How does the excife? Was the exile really known? In

917
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 3: those conversations and in those meetings.

918
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,760
Speaker 2: That's why I think some of my most frustrating conversations

919
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 2: are with people who once they get to the point

920
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 2: where they're you know, maybe they have to go through

921
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 2: detos or maybe they don't right, but they get to

922
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,879
Speaker 2: the point where they're not drinking right, and I ask

923
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 2: them this question. I say, Okay, have you gotten to

924
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 2: the root yet? And again, the most frustrating conversations are

925
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 2: the ones that say, well, there's nothing there. I just

926
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 2: like the taste or I just like the feeling, and

927
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 2: and I'm always you know, I'm always like, oh, okay,

928
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 2: sure everyone likes the feeling. Everyone, you know, sure, there's

929
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 2: a taste to it, but if you don't get to

930
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 2: the root, if you don't check in, if you don't

931
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 2: talk to those parts who who decided that I know

932
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 2: that there are consequences for this action. I don't show

933
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 2: up for work, I'm not present with my spouse. Like

934
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 2: you see all these consequences. It can't just you know,

935
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 2: I like the taste of steak. I don't eat steak

936
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,399
Speaker 2: until it makes me throw up, right, Like you would

937
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 2: look at me and say that's not right. Right, But

938
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 2: for some reason, when it comes to alcohol or drugs

939
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 2: or whatnot, we can say, well, I just like the feeling,

940
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 2: and that's it, and we and so many just leave

941
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 2: it there. And I think what I f s and

942
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 2: what you're seeing is there's let's let's get to the

943
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 2: deeper part of that.

944
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, yeah, that's that's you know.

945
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,439
Speaker 1: I is it a right if I share a little

946
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 1: bit about my story, because everybody has their story, and

947
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: that's part of the purpose of this podcast is for

948
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 1: people to share stories. Right, Well, yeah, I had during COVID,

949
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 1: I noticed I was drinking wine every night for a while,

950
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: and I noticed I even wanted to do it, to

951
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: do it alone, you know, And it was about four

952
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 1: or five o'clock in the afternoon, you know, right before

953
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: you hit that sort of second shift of the day

954
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: where you're with the family, you know, and at the

955
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: witching hour for parents, like, oh gosh, what am I

956
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 1: supposed to do with myself.

957
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 3: At four o'clock in the afternoon?

958
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: And so I would just naturally, I would just go

959
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 1: and reach for that that bottle of wine and the

960
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 1: four glass wine and turned into two and and just

961
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,399
Speaker 1: getting really curious about why why I would do that?

962
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: And you know, personally, what helped me was to think

963
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:19,720
Speaker 1: about where's this, where's this going? And do I want

964
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,719
Speaker 1: to go down this path where this is what I

965
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 1: do every day? And do I like the fact that

966
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily want everybody to know about this, you know?

967
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: And I started having feelings of guilt about that, and

968
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: I didn't like that. And what helped there was something

969
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 1: else that helped me if I could, if I could share,

970
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 1: which was my church was doing it twenty one days

971
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:45,280
Speaker 1: of prayer and fasting, which they do every January.

972
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 3: And I decided to try to give out the wine.

973
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 1: But I decided to really pray about it because I

974
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 1: was in this community that was praying together, and by

975
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 1: the end of that twenty one days, I didn't have

976
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: the desire anymore, and it's it's sort of been gone

977
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: since then. And so I'm so appreciative of my church

978
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 1: because I think there's really power in a praying community

979
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 1: to help us overcome overcome unhealthy habits. But it was

980
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:15,879
Speaker 1: also through looking at like why no, Because if you're

981
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: not drinking, then you have time to think about why

982
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 1: do I want that drink? I started thinking about like,

983
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: why really did I care about that? And it was

984
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 1: because of the stresses and pressures of parenting, and just

985
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: like the depression that can come up sometimes when you

986
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: don't get to do what you really want to do

987
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: because you're needing to be present with a child. You know,

988
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 1: even though even though children are so lovable and my

989
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 1: daughter brings so much joy into my life, she wants

990
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: to do things that maybe don't interest me all the time.

991
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 1: And then that that gives it creates that space in

992
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: you to have those feelings you wish you didn't have,

993
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 1: you know, because you're not getting to do the things

994
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 1: that you love all the time when you're a parent.

995
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 3: So I was just noticing Wow.

996
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 1: And I read a book I can't even remember what book,

997
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: but it said that parenting often surfaces are depressive parts.

998
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 3: And I was like, wow, that's really profound.

999
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 1: Wow, because we don't get to do our I'm not

1000
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: even sure if addictive is the right word, but it's

1001
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 1: the habits that keep us from feeling our deeper emotions,

1002
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: whether it's socializing now with colleagues or reading books, like

1003
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 1: even something like reading soul Care books. I love soul

1004
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: Care and I'm always reading. You know, I've got this

1005
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: book right here, Healing in the Bible. Like if I

1006
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: could just do anything all day long, like I would read,

1007
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 1: like I would read soul care books.

1008
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 3: Yah.

1009
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 1: But even like honestly, john reading a soul Care book

1010
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 1: could be a way of escaping expression.

1011
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 3: Wow, I mean mic Droft right.

1012
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 2: Yes, we can turn anything, right, Like Johnny Kelvin said,

1013
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:58,520
Speaker 2: our hearts are idol factories, right. And if you look

1014
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 2: at the even if you look at the seven Deadly Sins, right,

1015
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 2: They're all just perversions of something that are good, right,

1016
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 2: Like gluttony is a perversion of just eating, you know, yes,

1017
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 2: lust is a perversion of just the god given you know,

1018
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 2: sex drive that we have like, yeah, they're all just perversions.

1019
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:23,280
Speaker 1: Right right and in extreme versions yes, yes, yes, yeah,

1020
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,080
Speaker 1: so just know, so taking the time to know myself

1021
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 1: and just saying like wow, and I got to really

1022
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: understand my my undepressive parts better and really got to

1023
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: access why I was.

1024
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 3: I needed a therapist. So I started working with a therapist.

1025
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 1: And I realized and I had another huge discovery, which

1026
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 1: was that my depression was not an exile, but it

1027
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 1: was a manager part.

1028
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 3: You know.

1029
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 1: My manager part was trying to manage my other emotions

1030
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 1: through causing me.

1031
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 3: To be pressed.

1032
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 1: That's really powerful for me because the reason why that

1033
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 1: was helpful for me was because I was able to

1034
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: work with the manager more than the exile. Like I

1035
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 1: was able to ask the manager to come up another strategy. Yes,

1036
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 1: you know, like instead of using depression, like, let's use

1037
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 1: like creativity and oh yeah, and start to enter into

1038
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: play play with my daughter more, you know, and connect

1039
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 1: with her in new ways.

1040
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 2: And that is okay, that's my going. That's incredible And

1041
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 2: I think you know you said something there. And I

1042
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 2: interviewed for the for My Confession's book, I interviewed a

1043
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 2: mom who actually her story is very similar to yours, okay,

1044
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 2: And she said, you know, I just I got to

1045
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 2: the point where I had to have my two glasses

1046
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 2: of wine every night. I wasn't getting drunk. I wasn't,

1047
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 2: you know, throwing away oodles of money, but I was

1048
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 2: starting to hide it. I was starting to hide it

1049
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 2: from my husband. And you know, we'd go out to

1050
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:52,920
Speaker 2: eat and if I if the waiter didn't bring my

1051
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 2: second glass of wine soon enough, I'd get frustrated. I

1052
01:00:56,560 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 2: just was like, what now, And she would say, I

1053
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 2: I realized I had a drinking problem. And that's interesting, right,

1054
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 2: because I think there's some people who are like, you know,

1055
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? She had a drinking problem,

1056
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 2: and she's like, you know, I did because it was

1057
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:11,560
Speaker 2: you know, I say in my book, anything that is

1058
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 2: misordered is disordered, right. And I think what is so

1059
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 2: fascinating is that for the Christian, and this woman was

1060
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 2: a Christian, is the Gospel and the scriptures offer an

1061
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:27,320
Speaker 2: early warning detection system for things in our life that

1062
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 2: are becoming misordered. Right. Like, so for you it's like

1063
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 2: you realize, hey, I don't like this, right, And the

1064
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 2: Gospel and what James would say is if the Holy

1065
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 2: Spirit is convicting you of something and you don't do it,

1066
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 2: it's sin, right, and so baby, by the world's definition, Kim,

1067
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 2: just keep drinking. You're fine, what are you talking about?

1068
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 2: But because the world says it's really only about quantity

1069
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 2: and frequency and and sure those are some aspects of alcohol,

1070
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 2: it has occupied a wrong place in your life. But

1071
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 2: they're not the only ones. And especially for the Christian,

1072
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 2: yeah they are, They're not the only ones, right.

1073
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, And I have a friend it's in my

1074
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 1: my church small group, that loves to have her cocktail

1075
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 1: every afternoon. And she's absolutely fine with it. She's a

1076
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 1: she's a devout Christian, you know, and she like, I

1077
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: walked into her house and she's got like all of

1078
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,560
Speaker 1: her drinks on her on her little tray there, you know,

1079
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 1: and in the bottles, and you know, I just I

1080
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: I can't do that because it doesn't I don't. Like

1081
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 1: I've said, I don't sleep well when I drink. I

1082
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 1: feel tired the next day. I also then I can't stop,

1083
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: you know, I get I started, I can't stop, and

1084
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 1: then I don't like the feeling of needing to have

1085
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 1: it every night. But I'll have a glass of wine

1086
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 1: at you know, a celebratory meal or something like that,

1087
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 1: and I'll enjoy it occasionally, and that's that's what works

1088
01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 1: for me. So and I want to just recognize everybody

1089
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 1: has to know themselves, and it's really about understanding what

1090
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:11,160
Speaker 1: does spiritual and physical and emotional and social health look

1091
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 1: like for you. But I mean the Bible, as I'm

1092
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 1: sure you've explored in this podcast. You know, Paul recommended

1093
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 1: a little bit of wine for a six stomach, right, yeah, yeah,

1094
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 1: to Timothy, and Jesus turned water into waits. So you know,

1095
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 1: it's the Bible doesn't say. Ecclesiastes is all about like

1096
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: celebrating God good God's good gifts, and so we don't

1097
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 1: want to like shame shame people who and I loved.

1098
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:37,200
Speaker 1: I have to say I got a kick out of

1099
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: something in your book. I listened to your wonderful audiobook

1100
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 1: Finding Rest over the Holidays, and this was before Confessions

1101
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 1: of a Christian Alcoholic, But you talked about how you

1102
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: went off on a reading retreat and you packed here

1103
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 1: and I knew what you had written Confessions, And I

1104
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 1: think that's why this was funny to me, is that

1105
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, I went on reading writing retreat, and

1106
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 1: I packed my change of clothes, you know, some running

1107
01:03:57,280 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: shoes or I forgot your running shoes, and I and

1108
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 1: I packed at a little bit of bourbon.

1109
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 3: Was so funny.

1110
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I just thought, okay, that's yeah, that's

1111
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 1: it's like, it's what's what felt healthy to you.

1112
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 2: So there were times in my life that I could

1113
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 2: have it healthily, right, But what I've come to understand

1114
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 2: is that that's no longer the case, right, Okay, so yeah,

1115
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 2: that's updating me.

1116
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:26,400
Speaker 1: And that's part of what we do in the parts

1117
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: is too we update then. So so so that's good

1118
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:30,760
Speaker 1: to hear this update that you no longer would do that.

1119
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 2: No, I can't. I've realized that now. Okay, the only

1120
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 2: drink I can say no to is the first one,

1121
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 2: right that Very quickly, it just becomes something that takes over. Right.

1122
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 2: My wife opposite, Like we go out to dinner, she

1123
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 2: can have one cocktail, and I'm kind of like, why

1124
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 2: would you have one cocktail when you're three? You know

1125
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 2: what I mean? Like if you're not feeling something from that? Yeah,

1126
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 2: and that actually maybe this brings me kind of as

1127
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 2: we start to land the plane here, Yeah, the biggest

1128
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 2: A good question, which is does that mean? And this

1129
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 2: is a very open ended question. You can answer however

1130
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 2: you want. You know, if I I've come to that

1131
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:16,080
Speaker 2: point where I realize I can't drink anymore, right, it

1132
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 2: takes over. It's even if it were not to take

1133
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 2: over immediately. I just I know where this ends, right,

1134
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 2: I know where it goes. Is that is that just

1135
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 2: like the sin and brokenness that's in the world has

1136
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 2: so fractured some of those parts? Or is it have

1137
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 2: I not done enough internal work with some of those exiles? Like,

1138
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 2: I'm just curious what you would say about that. Is

1139
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 2: it is it that I haven't done enough work? Or

1140
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 2: is it that I just know that, hey, that that

1141
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 2: sin has fractured some of that within me, and so

1142
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 2: I'm just not gonna mess with it. I don't know.

1143
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 1: Hm, it's a really interesting question, and I get I

1144
01:05:56,840 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 1: get why you're asking that. So, yeah, so you're saying, like,

1145
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:04,240
Speaker 1: if I were healed more, could I just have one glass?

1146
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 3: Sure?

1147
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:08,000
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1148
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 3: Well, my where my mind goes.

1149
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:14,080
Speaker 1: Is to the you know, the the physical component that

1150
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: we have, you know, genetic very dispositive dispositions, and some

1151
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 1: just like some people have certain you know, addictive tendencies

1152
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 1: to different substances. You have this, you know, it's a

1153
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 1: biological genetic disposition toward addictiveness to alcohol. And it's good

1154
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:36,040
Speaker 1: to know that about yourself.

1155
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 2: And it does run in the family.

1156
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: It runs in your family, right, and so just you

1157
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:43,439
Speaker 1: need to know that. I mean, I I just heard

1158
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 1: a sermon by Max Lucato where he talked about how

1159
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 1: it ran in his family and he struggled with alcohol

1160
01:06:50,560 --> 01:06:53,720
Speaker 1: addiction when he was younger, and I'm not sure whether

1161
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,800
Speaker 1: he still does, but you know, he he talked about

1162
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 1: the biological component.

1163
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 3: So is that broken? I guess so.

1164
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 1: I mean, in heaven, we probably won't have genetic dispositions

1165
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 1: towards alcoholism, right right, right exactly, so, but we all,

1166
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 1: we all are in the same boat, so there's no

1167
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 1: shame around that, and we all have dispositions towards different.

1168
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 3: And tendencies. And I think just acknowledging we're not in

1169
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 3: heaven yet.

1170
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that Kim. If people want

1171
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 2: to find out more about you, if they want to

1172
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 2: grab your book, if they want to invite you to speak,

1173
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 2: which I would highly encourage, where can they go to

1174
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 2: find more about what you're doing.

1175
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 1: My website Kimberly Junemiller dot com, and I have an

1176
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 1: Instagram account where I post twice a week. I'm on Facebook,

1177
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 1: but that's more just for personal pictures. If you want

1178
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 1: to some pictures of my daughter, go to Facebook.

1179
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 3: But otherwise otherwise it's Instagram or my website.

1180
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, Kim, thank you so much for joining. Thank

1181
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 2: you for your insights and your wisdom. And I can

1182
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 2: say that you are as genuine in person as you

1183
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,599
Speaker 2: come across on the podcast as your writing is, and

1184
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:20,640
Speaker 2: it has been a pleasure to you. Know what I

1185
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:23,160
Speaker 2: will say is, you know you don't often I think

1186
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 2: I wrote this on Instagram. You don't often to get

1187
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 2: to meet your heroes, and when you do, like sometimes

1188
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 2: you can be really disappointed. And I don't mean to

1189
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 2: put that on you as pressure, but you're just you

1190
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 2: are who you are, and I would highly encourage people

1191
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:41,840
Speaker 2: to follow you to grab boundaries for your soul. And

1192
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,639
Speaker 2: as I step into the next era of what I'm

1193
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 2: doing ministry wise, it is going to be one of

1194
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 2: the required readings because it is just so so good.

1195
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:52,920
Speaker 2: So thank you so much for joining.

1196
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:56,120
Speaker 1: Thank you, John, Thanks so much for having me and

1197
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 1: I wanted to say blessings to all of your listeners too,

1198
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 1: thanks for listening to us today.

1199
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:03,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1200
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 2: Can you see what I mean about Kim just being

1201
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:10,559
Speaker 2: one of the most genuine people, even even though you

1202
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:14,639
Speaker 2: haven't quote unquote met her like I have in person,

1203
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 2: well maybe you have. It just comes across right. She

1204
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 2: is soft, she is gentle, she is kind, she is thoughtful. Right,

1205
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 2: if you watch this episode, you can see her like

1206
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 2: she thinks right, and she doesn't speak before she thinks right.

1207
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 2: And so I just am so grateful to her, and

1208
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:41,520
Speaker 2: I just I can't repeat enough that part not on ironically,

1209
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 2: that discussion about how not all the parts of ourselves

1210
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 2: have been introduced to Jesus, I think is important and

1211
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 2: I think it's something we should think about and wrestle

1212
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 2: with and contemplate and meditate on. And I would hope

1213
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:59,639
Speaker 2: that you would take this that one of the things

1214
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 2: that you take from this episode is how do you

1215
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:04,280
Speaker 2: introduce Jesus to all the parts of yourselves? What are

1216
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:07,679
Speaker 2: those parts that you have been hiding from him? You've

1217
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:09,600
Speaker 2: walled off because you don't want to face him. That

1218
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:11,559
Speaker 2: was my thing, right when I talk about why this

1219
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,800
Speaker 2: happened in my life how I became the Christian alcoholic.

1220
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 2: There were parts of myself that I had walled off.

1221
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:20,479
Speaker 2: I didn't want to go there. There were exiles that

1222
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 2: I didn't want to talk with that I didn't want

1223
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:24,800
Speaker 2: to meet, that I didn't want to open up the

1224
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:28,360
Speaker 2: can of worms that was there. And you know I've

1225
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 2: given this example before, but it's like, if you come

1226
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:33,040
Speaker 2: over to my house, I'll clean up the living room,

1227
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 2: I'll clean up the kitchen, I'll clean up the downstairs,

1228
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 2: but you know, the kids room, I will close that door, right,

1229
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 2: And that doesn't take care of the mess that's inside.

1230
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 2: That doesn't take care of the rotting pizza that's inside,

1231
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 2: the hot pocket that's been there for a couple weeks, right,

1232
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:52,679
Speaker 2: And eventually that smell and that stench and the rats

1233
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 2: and everything, well, we'll just end up pouring out of

1234
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 2: that room into the clean parts. And that's what happened

1235
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:02,719
Speaker 2: with me, right, Like I had those places that I'd

1236
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:05,120
Speaker 2: shut the door and just let that stuff in there.

1237
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:08,599
Speaker 2: I didn't want to face it. And then it wasn't long, well,

1238
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:10,960
Speaker 2: I should say it was long, right, and over a

1239
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:16,320
Speaker 2: slow process, right, that those things that that that rottenness

1240
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 2: just kind of spilled over into the rest of the house,

1241
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 2: and so I want to encourage you to open up

1242
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:26,360
Speaker 2: those rooms, open up those parts to Jesus and let

1243
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 2: him in there. He's a great cleaner. He is a

1244
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 2: great cleaner, and he's gonna come for it, all right.

1245
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 2: So hopefully that was as encouraging to you as it

1246
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 2: was to me. I'm like, I'm like pumped, I'm like

1247
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 2: stoked after that episode, Like, Oh, Kim is so great.

1248
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 2: So pick up her book, Boundaries for your Soul right here.

1249
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:52,559
Speaker 2: I'm holding it up. It is so good and I like, like,

1250
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:56,120
Speaker 2: just spend time with it, marinate in the wisdom that

1251
01:11:56,240 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 2: is in there. Love you all. Thank you to our

1252
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 2: Inner Life Audio. Life audio dot com. You can go

1253
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:06,280
Speaker 2: and check out some other great podcasts there. Sean McDowell,

1254
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:14,639
Speaker 2: Christy Osborne, Kirby Kelly, Carol McCracken has a couple on there.

1255
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 2: She's been a guest on this podcast as well. So

1256
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 2: love our friends over a Life Audio. They have been

1257
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 2: great to me and to you really because without them

1258
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 2: you wouldn't be listening to this. So love you out.

1259
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 2: We'll see you here next week.