1 00:00:02,700 --> 00:00:08,220 Speaker 1: Life Audio. Hi, from the Salvation Army, you're listening to 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:19,860 Speaker 1: Words of Life. 3 00:00:25,770 --> 00:00:28,250 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Words of Life. If you've been following 4 00:00:28,270 --> 00:00:30,890 Speaker 2: the news, especially in the past few weeks, you've probably 5 00:00:30,930 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: seen growing concerns about the rapid and often unchecked progress 6 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,500 Speaker 2: of AI. If that leaves you feeling uncertain or even 7 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 2: fearful about the future, we want to revisit a conversation 8 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,490 Speaker 2: we had with professor, author, and speaker Jason Thacker. Jason 9 00:00:44,570 --> 00:00:47,490 Speaker 2: offers a thoughtful biblical perspective on AI and what it 10 00:00:47,550 --> 00:00:50,390 Speaker 2: means for us as followers of Christ. We'll be back 11 00:00:50,470 --> 00:00:51,850 Speaker 2: next week with a brand new series. 12 00:00:52,310 --> 00:00:52,550 Speaker 3: Enjoy. 13 00:01:01,970 --> 00:01:04,250 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Words of Life. I'm Bernie Dake, and 14 00:01:04,330 --> 00:01:08,670 Speaker 1: we are privileged today to have back on the program 15 00:01:08,770 --> 00:01:12,789 Speaker 1: Jason Thacker, our friend from 2022. Welcome back, Jason. 16 00:01:13,090 --> 00:01:14,870 Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks, guys, for having me. I really appreciate it. 17 00:01:15,110 --> 00:01:18,730 Speaker 1: We're also privileged to be joined by our very own producer, 18 00:01:18,830 --> 00:01:22,350 Speaker 1: Chris Benjamin, and as always, Chris Hoffer in the background 19 00:01:22,390 --> 00:01:28,179 Speaker 1: doing the record engineering. We love it. Hey, Jason, tell 20 00:01:28,380 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: our folks that might be new to the program who 21 00:01:31,340 --> 00:01:32,900 Speaker 1: you are and what you're doing these days. 22 00:01:33,700 --> 00:01:36,330 Speaker 3: Since I was there last, I have transitioned to a 23 00:01:36,350 --> 00:01:38,910 Speaker 3: full-time professor job. So I teach philosophy and ethics here 24 00:01:38,930 --> 00:01:42,290 Speaker 3: at Boyce College and Southern Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, and 25 00:01:42,310 --> 00:01:44,210 Speaker 3: serve as an LA elder in our local church and 26 00:01:44,530 --> 00:01:46,690 Speaker 3: been writing books and talking a lot about a lot 27 00:01:46,709 --> 00:01:48,690 Speaker 3: of what we're going to talk about today, actually. But 28 00:01:48,730 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 3: my wife, Dori, we've been married for almost 12 years 29 00:01:51,180 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 3: and have two boys, an eight-year-old and a seven-year-old at home. 30 00:01:53,980 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 3: And so Let's just say it is always a fun time, 31 00:01:56,940 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 3: especially when daddy gets home. 32 00:01:59,120 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 4: That's awesome. 33 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,059 Speaker 1: You know, when you were here in 2022 and talking 34 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,610 Speaker 1: about technology, it doesn't seem like a long time ago, 35 00:02:06,790 --> 00:02:09,489 Speaker 1: but so much stuff has happened since then. It feels 36 00:02:09,510 --> 00:02:10,570 Speaker 1: like it's been ages. 37 00:02:10,950 --> 00:02:11,149 Speaker 4: Yeah. 38 00:02:11,450 --> 00:02:13,670 Speaker 1: We are glad you're back. When you were with us 39 00:02:13,710 --> 00:02:16,810 Speaker 1: last time, you had the release, Following Jesus in a 40 00:02:16,850 --> 00:02:19,350 Speaker 1: Digital Age. What are a few big things that have 41 00:02:19,410 --> 00:02:21,700 Speaker 1: taken place in the tech space since we last spoke? 42 00:02:22,860 --> 00:02:24,670 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, kind of the biggest one seems to 43 00:02:24,710 --> 00:02:27,710 Speaker 3: be what everybody wants to talk about. It's wall-to-wall media coverage. 44 00:02:27,750 --> 00:02:31,089 Speaker 3: I mean, news stories, whether it's in education or work 45 00:02:31,169 --> 00:02:34,490 Speaker 3: or in public policy matters or warfare, just the rise 46 00:02:34,669 --> 00:02:38,380 Speaker 3: of the kind of popular conversation surrounding AI. I mean, 47 00:02:38,460 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 3: AI is everywhere. That seems to be what everybody kind 48 00:02:41,100 --> 00:02:43,780 Speaker 3: of wants to talk about these days. And for good reason. 49 00:02:43,980 --> 00:02:46,580 Speaker 3: I wrote back my first book back in 2020 was 50 00:02:46,620 --> 00:02:49,610 Speaker 3: called The Age of AI, focusing on kind of artificial intelligence, 51 00:02:49,650 --> 00:02:52,230 Speaker 3: how we think through the future of humanity. It's kind 52 00:02:52,250 --> 00:02:54,150 Speaker 3: of a bold statement, but I do think that there 53 00:02:54,190 --> 00:02:56,489 Speaker 3: are some kind of major worldview shifts that are taking 54 00:02:56,530 --> 00:02:59,250 Speaker 3: place with AI, how it's shaping and forming us. But 55 00:02:59,270 --> 00:03:02,010 Speaker 3: then also how it was already way back when, before 56 00:03:02,070 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 3: we were talking about it in kind of popular conversation, 57 00:03:04,340 --> 00:03:07,820 Speaker 3: already shaping really every aspect of our world. And I 58 00:03:07,860 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 3: think we see that even more kind of a fever pitch, 59 00:03:10,540 --> 00:03:12,139 Speaker 3: almost kind of a hype cycle. We're at the very 60 00:03:12,180 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 3: top of it, I think, where everyone is talking about AI, 61 00:03:15,490 --> 00:03:18,410 Speaker 3: how it's shifting and changing everything. And It's pushing along 62 00:03:18,470 --> 00:03:20,950 Speaker 3: some really good conversations that I think really need to 63 00:03:20,990 --> 00:03:24,290 Speaker 3: be had, especially among believers, to think about how these 64 00:03:24,330 --> 00:03:27,230 Speaker 3: technologies are shaping our view of God, how it shaped 65 00:03:27,270 --> 00:03:29,010 Speaker 3: our view of ourselves. I think that's one of the 66 00:03:29,070 --> 00:03:30,859 Speaker 3: biggest questions we can ask today. What does it mean 67 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,299 Speaker 3: to be human? But then also, how do we engage 68 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,060 Speaker 3: the world around us and do so with hope amidst 69 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:37,860 Speaker 3: a lot of the technological changes of our day? 70 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:38,340 Speaker 4: Yeah. 71 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,220 Speaker 1: Nothing about quantum computing, I guess, coming your way then, huh? 72 00:03:43,330 --> 00:03:44,570 Speaker 3: It's behind the scenes. We'll just say that. 73 00:03:46,270 --> 00:03:48,990 Speaker 2: Hey, you're listening to The Salvation Army's Words of Life. 74 00:03:49,390 --> 00:03:51,350 Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick ad break, and we'll 75 00:03:51,370 --> 00:04:03,340 Speaker 2: be right back. We looked back, and when your series 76 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,820 Speaker 2: launched in 2022, that was in the summer of that year. 77 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,220 Speaker 2: And then November of that same year, ChatGPT came out. 78 00:04:10,900 --> 00:04:15,290 Speaker 2: And that now, of course, every student... It's using chat 79 00:04:15,310 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: GPT to get their degrees and that's a whole level 80 00:04:18,940 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 2: of possible scary future doctors out there or something. But 81 00:04:24,620 --> 00:04:27,750 Speaker 2: it is more of a household conversation. I mean, I 82 00:04:27,790 --> 00:04:29,510 Speaker 2: think even just in 2022, there were a lot of 83 00:04:29,529 --> 00:04:32,230 Speaker 2: things that you were stating that Bernie wasn't aware of yet. 84 00:04:32,570 --> 00:04:34,470 Speaker 2: And now all of this is just common knowledge, it 85 00:04:34,490 --> 00:04:34,930 Speaker 2: seems like. 86 00:04:35,830 --> 00:04:35,950 Speaker 4: Yeah. 87 00:04:36,820 --> 00:04:39,020 Speaker 3: Yeah, you definitely see kind of a fever pitch, almost 88 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 3: kind of a hype cycle. And that's what I like 89 00:04:40,500 --> 00:04:42,419 Speaker 3: to remind my students. But even at times when I'm 90 00:04:42,460 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 3: just traveling and preaching and teaching, it's really interesting. A 91 00:04:45,900 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 3: lot of the questions I think we're asking today aren't 92 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,820 Speaker 3: all that new per se. We think of the novelty, 93 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,300 Speaker 3: all the changes, what technology is doing. And there are 94 00:04:53,339 --> 00:04:56,170 Speaker 3: some new things and new opportunities and challenges before us. 95 00:04:56,750 --> 00:05:00,010 Speaker 3: But I think as with all technology, I think AI specifically, 96 00:05:00,490 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 3: we're asking a lot of those age-old questions. specifically who 97 00:05:04,220 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 3: is God? What does it mean to be human? We're 98 00:05:05,820 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 3: just asking them in light of some of these new opportunities. 99 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,700 Speaker 3: It's encouraging to me that there are many more Christians 100 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,540 Speaker 3: kind of engaging in this space. You know, a few 101 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,460 Speaker 3: years ago, you could count a few of us on 102 00:05:16,550 --> 00:05:18,310 Speaker 3: one or two hands. And now it seems like there 103 00:05:18,330 --> 00:05:20,289 Speaker 3: are more and more Christians getting involved in the space, 104 00:05:20,310 --> 00:05:23,370 Speaker 3: which is really encouraging. And that really started from initially 105 00:05:23,410 --> 00:05:25,909 Speaker 3: with my book and a statement of principles I worked 106 00:05:25,970 --> 00:05:27,910 Speaker 3: on a number of years ago. We were trying to 107 00:05:27,990 --> 00:05:30,909 Speaker 3: encourage the church to interact with the world as it is, 108 00:05:31,029 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 3: not just the way we want it to be. And 109 00:05:32,900 --> 00:05:35,750 Speaker 3: to prepare ourselves to engage some of those questions and 110 00:05:35,790 --> 00:05:38,770 Speaker 3: to be part of the conversation as they're happening. Because 111 00:05:38,830 --> 00:05:42,270 Speaker 3: it's interesting to me, no matter where you look, whether 112 00:05:42,310 --> 00:05:45,050 Speaker 3: it's in academia or whether it's in the workplace or 113 00:05:45,089 --> 00:05:48,700 Speaker 3: in government, and even in our own homes sometimes as families, 114 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 3: we're asking some really, really important questions about the role 115 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 3: of technology in our lives and specifically what it's doing 116 00:05:55,420 --> 00:05:57,859 Speaker 3: to us and how it's shaping and forming us as people. 117 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 3: That's what I wrote about in that Following Jesus book. 118 00:06:00,870 --> 00:06:02,989 Speaker 3: It's also something that I think is really prevalent, especially 119 00:06:03,010 --> 00:06:05,989 Speaker 3: in the AI conversation as well, just to slow down. 120 00:06:06,050 --> 00:06:08,110 Speaker 3: I think in many ways, we as a society, it's 121 00:06:08,130 --> 00:06:11,590 Speaker 3: always more better, faster, stronger. It's always efficiency and convenience 122 00:06:11,630 --> 00:06:14,690 Speaker 3: at all costs. But I think from a Christian worldview perspective, 123 00:06:14,730 --> 00:06:17,430 Speaker 3: we need to slow down at times, at least just 124 00:06:17,470 --> 00:06:19,830 Speaker 3: to consider and ask questions like, what is this? And 125 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,219 Speaker 3: where are we heading? And what's it doing to us? 126 00:06:22,300 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 3: Rather than just always rushing headlong into innovation for innovation's 127 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:30,890 Speaker 3: sake and uncritically adopting. Or for some listeners, uncritically rejecting 128 00:06:30,950 --> 00:06:33,470 Speaker 3: these tools. I think we need to have a critical 129 00:06:33,529 --> 00:06:37,330 Speaker 3: lens to engage, not to just wholeheartedly adopt or reject, 130 00:06:37,370 --> 00:06:40,770 Speaker 3: but actually to step in with hope and especially step 131 00:06:40,810 --> 00:06:43,609 Speaker 3: in with the fullness of the Christian worldview to address 132 00:06:43,630 --> 00:06:46,470 Speaker 3: these really important questions and realizing the whole time, none 133 00:06:46,510 --> 00:06:49,230 Speaker 3: of this stuff catches the Lord off guard, which is 134 00:06:49,350 --> 00:06:51,540 Speaker 3: deeply encouraging to me. It's not like we made something. 135 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:52,900 Speaker 3: He's like, I don't know what to do with this 136 00:06:52,940 --> 00:06:54,700 Speaker 3: or how do we think about it? No, he's God 137 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:56,980 Speaker 3: after all. He's the maker, the creator of everything. 138 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:57,100 Speaker 4: Right. 139 00:06:57,790 --> 00:06:59,930 Speaker 3: And so he's given us certain principles to live by, 140 00:07:00,170 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 3: even amidst changing circumstances. And I think that's kind of 141 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,180 Speaker 3: the place and the posture and kind of the demeanor 142 00:07:06,220 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 3: that I hope listeners, but really Christians in general, really 143 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,870 Speaker 3: step into these conversations. There's some exciting things. There's also 144 00:07:12,900 --> 00:07:15,970 Speaker 3: some daunting things and kind of serious questions that we 145 00:07:16,010 --> 00:07:17,070 Speaker 3: need to be asking right now. 146 00:07:18,070 --> 00:07:20,250 Speaker 4: I love what you said about the need to kind 147 00:07:20,290 --> 00:07:23,350 Speaker 4: of slow down and consider and ask the questions. Because 148 00:07:23,370 --> 00:07:26,100 Speaker 4: I think of 2007 when the iPhone came out and 149 00:07:26,140 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 4: how like, Immediately, everybody who had the finances to buy 150 00:07:29,700 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 4: an iPhone, we adopted that technology. And now, you know, 151 00:07:32,620 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 4: here we are. There's barely anybody we know who isn't 152 00:07:35,580 --> 00:07:38,310 Speaker 4: walking around with a phone in their pocket, social media. 153 00:07:38,710 --> 00:07:41,030 Speaker 4: I think of just that generation that came up with 154 00:07:41,070 --> 00:07:44,850 Speaker 4: that technology without us really asking all those questions of like, 155 00:07:44,890 --> 00:07:47,010 Speaker 4: what is this going to do to us as a society? 156 00:07:47,930 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 4: And you're just really now kind of seeing the ramifications 157 00:07:50,820 --> 00:07:54,340 Speaker 4: of that, just blindly accepting this new thing. without slowing 158 00:07:54,380 --> 00:07:57,060 Speaker 4: down to say, hey, this might change the world as 159 00:07:57,100 --> 00:07:59,620 Speaker 4: we know it. So I think this is kind of 160 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,210 Speaker 4: that next, I don't know, inflection point. AI is that 161 00:08:03,270 --> 00:08:06,190 Speaker 4: next thing that, yeah, we should maybe pause here before 162 00:08:06,230 --> 00:08:08,370 Speaker 4: we just like accept it into everyday life. 163 00:08:09,010 --> 00:08:11,780 Speaker 3: When we think about a kind of Christian engagement and 164 00:08:12,060 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 3: a host of political, social, ethical issues, but not less 165 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 3: than technology, is to slow down and ask some of 166 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,620 Speaker 3: those critical questions, to slow down to ask what's really 167 00:08:21,660 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 3: going on here, what's the tenets of the debate, those 168 00:08:23,580 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 3: type of things, to slow down and ask some of 169 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,020 Speaker 3: those to cultivate wisdom and virtue for engaging in an 170 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,610 Speaker 3: ever-shifting and ever-changing society. And so that's one of the 171 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 3: things I encourage with all technologies, but specifically when it 172 00:08:34,420 --> 00:08:37,610 Speaker 3: comes to AI. A posture that I think is really 173 00:08:37,670 --> 00:08:40,429 Speaker 3: helpful for Christians is that we don't just see these 174 00:08:40,490 --> 00:08:43,429 Speaker 3: things as mere tools that we use. They are tools. 175 00:08:43,510 --> 00:08:45,810 Speaker 3: We do use them. but they also are shaping our 176 00:08:45,850 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 3: perspective of the world. And so again, it's not like 177 00:08:47,860 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 3: we're anti-technology. It's funny, over the years, people were viewing 178 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,300 Speaker 3: and reflecting and engaging with my work. We'll say, oh, 179 00:08:54,340 --> 00:08:56,860 Speaker 3: in this book, he's so negative of technology. And you're like, 180 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 3: that's not really what I'm for. I'm not pessimistic with technology, 181 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,260 Speaker 3: but I'm also not just kind of this utopian kind 182 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,260 Speaker 3: of vision of everything's getting better and look at all 183 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,150 Speaker 3: the benefits. And we just embrace innovation for innovation's sake. 184 00:09:09,630 --> 00:09:12,770 Speaker 3: The goal is to really cultivate that critical lens, not 185 00:09:12,830 --> 00:09:15,050 Speaker 3: critical in the sense of tearing down, but just being 186 00:09:15,210 --> 00:09:19,620 Speaker 3: thoughtful and engaging these things. These technologies are good gifts 187 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,380 Speaker 3: from the Lord. We can use these for the kingdom. 188 00:09:22,420 --> 00:09:25,719 Speaker 3: We can use these to build the kingdom. But also 189 00:09:25,980 --> 00:09:28,300 Speaker 3: we'd be naive to think that they're not doing something 190 00:09:28,340 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 3: to us and that the goal or the purpose of 191 00:09:30,460 --> 00:09:33,630 Speaker 3: the technologies may not always align with that of our 192 00:09:33,670 --> 00:09:36,569 Speaker 3: stated goals and purposes, especially in ministry. And I think 193 00:09:36,610 --> 00:09:38,050 Speaker 3: that's going to take a little bit more of that 194 00:09:38,070 --> 00:09:41,380 Speaker 3: kind of critical analysis and slowing down rather than just 195 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,860 Speaker 3: kind of headlong innovation for innovation's sake, or for many 196 00:09:44,900 --> 00:09:46,460 Speaker 3: of us, maybe just kind of sticking our heads in 197 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,670 Speaker 3: the sand and act like it doesn't exist. I don't 198 00:09:48,690 --> 00:09:53,130 Speaker 3: think either of those are actually a proper Christian response 199 00:09:53,150 --> 00:09:55,890 Speaker 3: for how we engage and think through some of the challenges, 200 00:09:55,910 --> 00:09:58,250 Speaker 3: as well as the opportunities before us in this age 201 00:09:58,270 --> 00:09:58,630 Speaker 3: of AI. 202 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,100 Speaker 2: We pray that you're enjoying and being blessed by this conversation. 203 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,230 Speaker 2: We're going to take one more ad break and we'll 204 00:10:07,250 --> 00:10:15,010 Speaker 2: be right back. I want to talk about this article 205 00:10:15,030 --> 00:10:16,490 Speaker 2: that you wrote in May called You Are Not a 206 00:10:16,510 --> 00:10:19,750 Speaker 2: Machine and AI is not truly like you. But in 207 00:10:19,790 --> 00:10:22,590 Speaker 2: that article, as well as your book that came out 208 00:10:22,630 --> 00:10:26,310 Speaker 2: in 2020, The Age of AI, in that book also, 209 00:10:26,370 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 2: you talked about technology is not neutral. And when you're 210 00:10:30,420 --> 00:10:32,459 Speaker 2: talking about what does it look like when we just 211 00:10:32,580 --> 00:10:35,900 Speaker 2: jump in headfirst and how could these technologies be shaping 212 00:10:35,940 --> 00:10:38,860 Speaker 2: our worldview? I'll give you a perfect example of something 213 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,740 Speaker 2: that concerns me. I had a friend who was telling 214 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,540 Speaker 2: me that the way they use ChatGPT is it's in 215 00:10:44,590 --> 00:10:47,490 Speaker 2: their car and they will talk to it working through 216 00:10:47,590 --> 00:10:50,060 Speaker 2: some kind of problem. whether it's a work problem or 217 00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:53,580 Speaker 2: something like this. And it's feeding back information based on 218 00:10:53,620 --> 00:10:58,220 Speaker 2: what they're saying. And you're trusting that that technology does 219 00:10:58,260 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 2: not have any kind of agenda, that it is completely neutral. 220 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:02,340 Speaker 1: A bias. 221 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,260 Speaker 2: But who's to say it doesn't? And that it's not 222 00:11:05,300 --> 00:11:07,689 Speaker 2: just a little, I don't have a better word for 223 00:11:07,730 --> 00:11:10,950 Speaker 2: it than just like little microaggressions almost from this technology 224 00:11:11,210 --> 00:11:13,650 Speaker 2: that is shaping you a little bit differently than the 225 00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:16,450 Speaker 2: person you were before you had really kind of enveloped 226 00:11:16,490 --> 00:11:17,420 Speaker 2: yourself so much in it. 227 00:11:17,970 --> 00:11:18,110 Speaker 1: Yeah. 228 00:11:18,530 --> 00:11:21,030 Speaker 3: And it's not just the information that it's feeding back 229 00:11:21,090 --> 00:11:23,150 Speaker 3: or the quote conversation. And I think we need to 230 00:11:23,170 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 3: be really clear. That's why I wrote that article for 231 00:11:25,780 --> 00:11:29,179 Speaker 3: NAE was to say, you're not a machine. One of 232 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 3: the most ironic things about this age of AI is 233 00:11:32,580 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 3: that we often, we have all these questions about AI 234 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,650 Speaker 3: and it's powerful and the way it's quote thinking and 235 00:11:38,670 --> 00:11:41,630 Speaker 3: the way it's processing information. And it seems to take 236 00:11:41,770 --> 00:11:45,209 Speaker 3: on or at least mimic and imitate certain human characteristics 237 00:11:45,250 --> 00:11:47,870 Speaker 3: or at least characteristics that we long have assumed it 238 00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:50,210 Speaker 3: meant to be human, to be a thinking thing or 239 00:11:50,230 --> 00:11:53,750 Speaker 3: to having these kind of relational connections. But it's interesting 240 00:11:53,790 --> 00:11:57,390 Speaker 3: when you think about these, they're machines. There's a difference, 241 00:11:57,460 --> 00:11:59,940 Speaker 3: as one philosopher said, a difference between a subject and 242 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:03,420 Speaker 3: an object. We are subjects. It's I and thou and 243 00:12:03,460 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 3: me and you, and we have names. It's interesting though, 244 00:12:06,020 --> 00:12:09,730 Speaker 3: with these machines is we often give them names, especially 245 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,989 Speaker 3: in robotics. We give them faces. We have conversations about 246 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,569 Speaker 3: AI agents, that's really popular in the tech space right now, 247 00:12:16,660 --> 00:12:19,449 Speaker 3: these personas that the AI will take on that you 248 00:12:19,490 --> 00:12:23,069 Speaker 3: can interact with. There's rise in many conversations about AI 249 00:12:23,150 --> 00:12:27,530 Speaker 3: therapy kind of chatbots, not just for counseling and therapy situations, 250 00:12:27,570 --> 00:12:31,229 Speaker 3: but especially even young people engaging in kind of relational 251 00:12:31,330 --> 00:12:34,130 Speaker 3: quote connections with these machines. And I think when we 252 00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:36,980 Speaker 3: start to blur that line to say, well, you're not 253 00:12:37,020 --> 00:12:41,100 Speaker 3: a machine though. You're not like that. It may look, 254 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 3: it may imitate, it may reflect certain things, but there's 255 00:12:43,460 --> 00:12:48,140 Speaker 3: a fundamental difference. I think that's really meaningful when we 256 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 3: get into this because the ironic part is that we 257 00:12:50,340 --> 00:12:54,590 Speaker 3: often humanize these machines, treating them as if they're like us, 258 00:12:55,490 --> 00:12:57,810 Speaker 3: wondering about if they'll ever wake up one day, kind 259 00:12:57,830 --> 00:13:00,110 Speaker 3: of that Hollywood thriller kind of movie plot about the 260 00:13:00,210 --> 00:13:02,670 Speaker 3: robots waking up one day and taking over We have 261 00:13:02,690 --> 00:13:05,109 Speaker 3: all these dreams where we in many ways make these 262 00:13:05,150 --> 00:13:07,980 Speaker 3: machines kind of like us. We humanize them. In the 263 00:13:08,010 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 3: same respect, I would argue we're actually dehumanizing ourself. So 264 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 3: it's not simply that the content and the information, but 265 00:13:16,860 --> 00:13:19,060 Speaker 3: also what are these tools doing to us in the 266 00:13:19,100 --> 00:13:21,809 Speaker 3: way we interact with other people or the value we 267 00:13:21,850 --> 00:13:26,189 Speaker 3: see in other people? Or are we substituting and replacing 268 00:13:26,610 --> 00:13:29,210 Speaker 3: rather than coming alongside and kind of augmenting our work. 269 00:13:29,250 --> 00:13:31,990 Speaker 3: And those are kind of fine distinctions, but I think 270 00:13:32,010 --> 00:13:34,469 Speaker 3: they really matter in these conversations because what is that 271 00:13:34,570 --> 00:13:37,630 Speaker 3: doing to how we see one another as human beings? 272 00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:38,929 Speaker 3: Do we see each other as just kind of a 273 00:13:38,970 --> 00:13:41,809 Speaker 3: sum of their parts, just the usefulness that they bring 274 00:13:41,850 --> 00:13:44,100 Speaker 3: to our lives, or we're starting to see really that 275 00:13:44,150 --> 00:13:46,900 Speaker 3: embodied community that God created us for? And at least 276 00:13:46,940 --> 00:13:48,500 Speaker 3: those are some questions I think we need to be 277 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,380 Speaker 3: thinking through and addressing from a distinctly Christian perspective. 278 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: The Salvation Army's mission, doing the most good, means helping 279 00:13:56,700 --> 00:13:59,740 Speaker 1: people with material and spiritual needs. You become a part 280 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,380 Speaker 1: of this mission every time you give to the Salvation Army. 281 00:14:02,700 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: Visit SalvationArmyUSA.org to offer your support. You can subscribe to 282 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:11,910 Speaker 1: Words of Life on your favorite podcast store or visit SalvationArmySoundcast.org. 283 00:14:12,210 --> 00:14:14,709 Speaker 1: Join us next time for the Salvation Army's Words of Life. 284 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,340 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening to Words of Life. We 285 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,180 Speaker 2: want to thank the team at Life Audio for their 286 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 2: partnership with us on the show. Visit lifeaudio.com where you'll 287 00:14:40,060 --> 00:14:43,570 Speaker 2: find dozens of other faith-centered podcasts in their network. They 288 00:14:43,610 --> 00:14:47,590 Speaker 2: have shows about prayer, Bible studying, parenting, and more. Thanks 289 00:14:47,630 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 2: again for listening. We'll see you next time.