1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Life audio, and I just was so weary, and I said, God, 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: I just feel like, no matter what I do, my 3 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: first impulse toward you is one of fear. And will 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: you please heal this in me? Will you free me 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: from this? 6 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Faith Over for your podcast, where we 7 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 2: discuss powerful truths to quiet anxiety and fear big and small. 8 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 2: I'm your host, Jennifer Slattery, and I'm confident today's episode 9 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: will hit many, if not all, of you deeply in 10 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 2: that space in your soul where you most need to 11 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: hear God say to you, I love you. You are 12 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: my beloved child, and I'll never leave you, forsake you, 13 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: or withdraw my love from you. Do you ever feel 14 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: like you know those things are true, but you struggle 15 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,480 Speaker 2: to believe and receive those truths in your most wounded places? 16 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 2: If so, I pray that this episode acts like a 17 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 2: gentle balm to your hurting heart and that helps you 18 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: see Jesus as He truly is our ever present, compassionate 19 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: And that's the message my guest today, Sherry Hughes Greg 20 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 2: Shares in her latest release, The Compassionate Christ, Draw Near 21 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 2: to the Risen Savior, A thirty one day devotional retelling 22 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 2: of stories from the life of Jesus. Cherry, thank you 23 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 2: so much for joining us. Well, Jennifer, thank you so 24 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: much for having me. I'm very honored to be here. 25 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 2: In The Compassionate Christ, Scherry Hughes Greg invites you to 26 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 2: experience the tender, welcoming love of Jesus through vivid, emotive storytelling. 27 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 2: You'll step into the lives of those he touched, witnessing 28 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 2: his kindness, his healing, and his mercy in fresh, heart 29 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 2: stirring ways. And I want to tell you a little 30 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 2: about Sherry because she has such a beautiful soul. Arry 31 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 2: is the author or co author of nine book including 32 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 2: Advent The Story of Christmas, The Compassionate Christ, which we're 33 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: talking about today and from where I stand, Okay, I 34 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: have to tell you I'm really interested in that one, So 35 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 2: I'm going to check it out when we get time 36 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 2: with this conversation. From where I Stand Bible Study series. 37 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: Her unique storytelling, rooted and cultural and historical research immerses 38 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: readers in some of the most riveting moments in scripture. 39 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 2: Many of our listeners battle shame and anxiety, some related 40 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: to some have come out of cult experiences. Some experienced 41 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: religious abuse, some experienced childhood trauma, just so many things, right, Like, 42 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 2: we live in a hard world. And my sense, having 43 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 2: listened to parts of your stories, I says that you 44 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 2: deeply relate to that struggle. Correct. 45 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: Yes, I feel like I have found by people, you know. 46 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm so glad to be here. Yeah. Once 47 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: I was in a therapy session and I told him 48 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: about what my particular upbringing was, and he said, yeah, 49 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: I have a lot of those people in therapy. Yeah. 50 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: I was a pastor's kid, a preacher's kid, and a 51 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: very conservative denomination. And I will say I believe my 52 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: parents loved me, and they're doing the best they could. 53 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: And I believe that there was a genuine desire to 54 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: teach people well really, and I learned a lot about 55 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: the Bibles, but what I learned on a deeper level 56 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: was that on my best days, God was just kind 57 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: of disgusted with me, you know, and that he was 58 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: waiting to throttle me. And I learned from a very 59 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: young age to be really afraid of God, and I 60 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: kind of just wanted to stay out of his crosshairs, honestly. 61 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: And it took a very long time for that to 62 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: even begin to heal, and it's an ongoing journey for me. 63 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, especially like when we're young and we're just developing 64 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: our sense of self, those wounds can hit deeply. So 65 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 2: I love that you mentioned therapy because we really advocate 66 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: that finding a sound, Christ centered therapist. So I assume 67 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 2: that was a big part of your journey. But how 68 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 2: did God meet you in your pain and help you 69 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 2: begin to understand I'm like, Okay, this is who he really, 70 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: This is what everybody, maybe either verbally or non verbally, 71 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 2: taught me to view him as. 72 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: But this is who he truly is. 73 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: So how did he begin to unentangle that for you? You know? 74 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: I remember, first of all, I'm a real nerd, and 75 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: I believe God meets us where we are, so he 76 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: speaks our language. And for me, when I began to 77 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,160 Speaker 1: discover researching the culture and history of the Bible, that 78 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: really turned my world upside down in the best way. 79 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: But before that, I was just beginning to learn that. 80 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: And one day was something happened and I just was 81 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 1: so weary, and I said, God, I just feel like, 82 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: no matter what I do, my first impulse toward you 83 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: is want of fear and will you please heal this 84 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: in me? Will you free me from this? And so 85 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: he led me to spend time in the Gospels using 86 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: the new tools I had at my disposal, and I 87 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: was so surprised to find that a lot of the 88 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: things I had been taught or as soon on my own, 89 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: we're really filtered through my own culture in time, and 90 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: Jesus came out a lot harsher than he was in reality, 91 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: that he was far kinder and more compassionate than I 92 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: even imagined. 93 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 2: That's awesome. What has he completely healed your soul from 94 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: those particular wounds? Or is that something that you still 95 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 2: that crops up on occasion, like maybe something will trigger 96 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 2: or maybe when you're weary again or dealing with something 97 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 2: like a failure, do you find yourself battling those old lies. 98 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: Well, he's brought me so far, but I sort of 99 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: feel like I'll always be in recovery from that. I 100 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: swam in those cold waters of legalism throughout all my 101 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: developmental years and much of my young adulthood and really 102 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: somewhat into adulthood, and so that really makes the lasting impression. 103 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: And I saw it surprised me to resurface again in 104 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: the wake of my cancer diagnosis, and I just was 105 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: so unmoored by suffering in that moment that some of 106 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: those things rose to the surface. And I've found that 107 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: I began praying to God saying things like, but I 108 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: loved you and trusted you, you know, so God, I'm worthy, 109 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: you know? Or wait, are you punishing me from a 110 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: divorce worthless? You know? And I really was surprised to 111 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: see it surface again. So I think I will always 112 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: probably need to be intentional and aware and continuing to 113 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: grow and heal. I think that will be a journey 114 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:34,799 Speaker 1: of a lifetime. Yeah. 115 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 2: Well, I just want to say, so there's somebody I 116 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 2: cared deeply for that actually recently experienced divorce, and it's 117 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: so hard for women in the church who experienced divorce, 118 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 2: and this particular person is not sharing the whys, trying 119 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 2: to really be honorable, and there were some pretty big whys. 120 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 2: And so I'm saying this to listeners who are have 121 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 2: either gone through divorce or praying like, is this something 122 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 2: I need to pursue or even if if you have 123 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 2: friends or people in your church who've experienced divorce with 124 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: whole judgment, offer grace, offer kindness, let them get their 125 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: feet under give them so much grace as they figure 126 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 2: out their new normal. So I just wanted to kind 127 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 2: of say that, and I'm really glad that you shared 128 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: both sides that, yeah, that's a traumatic event. But then 129 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 2: I can imagine with your history. And then, like I said, 130 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: I don't know why, for some reason in the church, 131 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 2: often the woman is blamed. I would love to hear 132 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 2: all these biblical narratives, and there's so many beautiful ones. 133 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: In your book. 134 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 2: Which biblical narrative provided the greatest healing for you? And 135 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 2: why did that particular account resonate so deeply. 136 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: I feel like the narrative that impacts me the most 137 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: sort of depends on where I am at the time. 138 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: That there's times I really relate to the lever who 139 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: is longing for healing and feeling on the outside, you know, 140 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: and times I relate to the thief on the cross, 141 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: who's at the end of it all and has nothing 142 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: but failure left to give and is just in need 143 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: of mercy. But I think the one that I come 144 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: back to over and over is Beauty for Ashes, which 145 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,239 Speaker 1: is the story of the widow who had just lost 146 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: her only son. That would be devastating for anyone, But 147 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: in her culture, women were very dependent on the protection 148 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: and provision of men, and they lived communally in families, 149 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: and so as long as her son was living, she 150 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: had a home, and she had protection, and she had provision. 151 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: So when Jesus encounters her in that funeral procession, she 152 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: is literally in the ashes and he resurrects her son. 153 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: But here's what I love. First, he goes to her 154 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 1: and comforts her, and I can really relate to that. 155 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: I remember, not long after my double mastect to me, 156 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: my sister found me upstairs crying in bed, not going 157 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: to get emotional, and she said, what's wrong. I said, 158 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: I just feel like my life has burned to ashes, 159 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: and she said, no, but the truth he is, Jennifer, 160 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: It really had. It had burned to ashes, and I 161 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: was just waiting in the ash heap for God to 162 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 1: bring a little life back. And but what I've found 163 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: is that He was so near to me to comfort 164 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: me in the waiting. It didn't happen as fast as 165 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: I wanted to. There are lots of really hard days. 166 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: The day after my double mastic to, I mean, my 167 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: insurance company started denying my claims and recouping payments. I mean, 168 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: so it was just like hit after hit after hit. 169 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: But I can say this, he was very near to 170 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: me in the waiting for resurrection. 171 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 2: That's a powerful, beautiful story. I also want to think 172 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 2: of you. You mentioned the leopard. I don't know why 173 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 2: what it was about your particular talent. I mean I 174 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 2: think that like just his longing, his feelings of worthlessness, 175 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 2: right like I mean your retelling of that story, it 176 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 2: really it put me in that position of like what 177 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: he would have. It was just a really profound experience. 178 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: I want to thank you for that. And I also 179 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 2: love the widow story well, but I don't know what 180 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 2: it was about the leper story that just really resonated 181 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: in my soul. I would like us to discuss togethers. 182 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 2: And I'm going to say to our listeners, Sharry and 183 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 2: I actually have a different perspective on one of the 184 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 2: biblical narratives. We can do all our research and all 185 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 2: our historical understanding, and scripture doesn't reveal clearly often like 186 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 2: the whyse and so a lot of the things are interpretations. 187 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 2: It's an educated guess in some ways, and thankfully God 188 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 2: reiterates the most important truth. So it's very clear Jesus 189 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 2: is the way, the truth, and the life like there's 190 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 2: no debate on that. But we're going to discuss a 191 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: story that's profoundly significant to us both and we have 192 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 2: different perspectives, and I would like you to share your 193 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 2: perspective first, but I will say, Sherry, I think it's 194 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 2: really cool as I was processing through and kind of 195 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 2: praying through this particular story and why it felt so 196 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 2: important to me, both perspectives revealed Jesus in the same way. 197 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,319 Speaker 2: I think that's really cool. And one of the reasons 198 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 2: Sherry and I actually were talking prior to this episode 199 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 2: why we wanted to have this conversation in particular about 200 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 2: the Samaritan woman is because we're both grieved by what 201 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 2: we see as When there's different perspectives, sometimes it can 202 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 2: become really hostile, intense, and if you're coming out of 203 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 2: religious abuse, that's going to feel really hard and it's 204 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 2: going to feel really shaming, and so we want to 205 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 2: break that and say, you know what, with scripture, there 206 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 2: isn't shame, there isn't condemnation. We can wrestle with these 207 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 2: hard truths and bring our perspectives and dialogue and if 208 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 2: you're with someone who's not safe to dialogue with how 209 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 2: you'll see Sherry and I doing in a moment, then 210 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 2: maybe that's not a safe environment for you. So first, 211 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 2: I don't want to lose sight of the powerful encounter 212 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 2: that scripture reveals, and so I would really like you 213 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 2: to share your perspective. 214 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: Okay. So I this story was important for me to 215 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: tell because I had always heard it preach just so 216 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: shame piling on, shame on this woman. And as I 217 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: began to learn more about the time in which lived, 218 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: I realized some things that didn't really line up with that. 219 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: First of all, women could get a divorce during that time, 220 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 1: but they had to go before the rabbis, and the 221 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: rabbis had to undertake that for them. A man, however, 222 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: at that particular time, could divorce his wife for just 223 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: about anything. As a matter of fact, one of the 224 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: rabbis was quoted saying, if she burned the bread, he 225 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 1: could divorce her. If she twirled in the street, he 226 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: could divorce her. If she went out without her head covering, 227 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: he could divorce her. So, as weys already said before, 228 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: women were vulnerable. And so I just began to wonder Okay, 229 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: So if this woman has lost this many husbands, what 230 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: is the most likely scenario here? And it seems to 231 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: me that it is more likely that she had suffered 232 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: a lot of wounds in her life, not that she 233 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: was out just being the shameful woman, and that with 234 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: each loss she suffered, she was left with fewer options 235 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: after each subsequent loss and the rejection, yes, the rejection. 236 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: And so my study said that women would often go 237 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: to the world together in the cooler times of the day. 238 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: And if you've ever been to that part of the world, 239 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: when I was there, the shade was my friend. I mean, 240 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: you know, I was just like, where's a little tiny 241 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: spot shade for me? Because it's brutally hot, you know. 242 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: And so they would go in the cool of the 243 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: day together, not just for companionship and propriety and protection, 244 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: but because the jars were really heavy, so they were 245 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: helping each other out and protecting each other. That's what 246 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: my research said. And so the fact that she is 247 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: there alone in the heat of the day says some 248 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: things about her circumstances and about how she felt on 249 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: the outside in her community. I love about this, though, 250 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: is that Jesus aid every turn pushes against all of that. 251 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: As a Jewish Man, he would have normally gotten up 252 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: and moved something like twenty feet away upon seeing her. 253 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: He doesn't. He continues to sit right on the capstone 254 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: of the well, right in her way. As a Jewish Man, 255 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: he wouldn't likely have spoken to a woman alone, particularly 256 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: a Samaritan woman, and he does. He engages her in conversation, 257 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: and he then he asks her for help. And I 258 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: love that because that elevates her in that moment, doesn't it. 259 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: It elevates her. And so he asked her for help, 260 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: and she's shocked. She's like, you want to drink out 261 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: of my little bucket, you know what's happening there? And 262 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: then it's like as they speak, he elevates her over 263 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: and over again, you know, he engages in the illogical 264 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: conversation with her. 265 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 2: Which is huge in that. 266 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And so I just see him elevating her 267 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: at every turn and restoring to her dignity that was 268 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: taken from her from others. To we come to the 269 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: end and she has a mission, you know, and she 270 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: goes into her city and she leads everyone back to 271 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: the Messiah. And so I just see so much redemption 272 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: and that in his interactions with her and his kindness 273 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: and tenderness to her, I love that well. 274 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 2: An important moment actually with this conversation. I agree with 275 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 2: a lot of what you just said, and I think 276 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 2: it's hard when you're telling a little bit of a 277 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 2: story and you've got a wealth of scholarship, and so 278 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: I would agree that it probably wasn't her choice that 279 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: put her in her position. And often we hear the 280 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 2: message that she was just out being really immoral, and 281 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 2: it's really unlikely in that culture, if you will, immoral, 282 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 2: that anybody would marry her a second or a third 283 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 2: or a fourth time. They'd probably stone her or you 284 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 2: know so, and maybe she was infertile or whatever, and 285 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 2: that would have been a big, a big heavy weight 286 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 2: of shame. And the one thing I have a little 287 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 2: different view is I think her conversation about where to worship, 288 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 2: I actually feel like that was probably heartfelt because that 289 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 2: was such a big part of that culture. Like to 290 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 2: the Jewish culture, you had to worship at the Temple 291 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 2: in Jerusalem. That was the only place where your sins 292 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 2: could be atoned for. And to the Samaritans, they and 293 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 2: this goes back in their history. But again, we wanted 294 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 2: to share that to show it's okay for two people 295 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 2: to have different like questions regarding the background of certain passages. 296 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 2: But Christ's message of love and tenderness comes through in both. 297 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 2: And I loved what you emphasized about him elevating her 298 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 2: dignity like that. I just like that would have been. 299 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 2: And another thing that I had learned when reading that 300 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 2: story is that Samaritan women were also considered on clean 301 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 2: like like they were perpetually menstruating, and just the shame 302 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 2: of that. And then to have Jesus like, hey, let 303 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 2: me use whatever you have to drink out of Like 304 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 2: I mean, that's so so much of that, And it 305 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 2: was such a great story. And I loved your emphasis 306 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 2: of him seeing our shame, countering our shame, elevating our 307 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 2: human dignity, seeing our pain. In one interview that I 308 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 2: listened to you share, which I can't even imagine, Sherry, 309 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: I just have to say, like, I can't imagine this, 310 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 2: how you received your book contract when your life was 311 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 2: imploding and you were overwhelmed with pain, and like, bring 312 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 2: us to that moment, like God's like here you go, 313 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 2: here's a platform. 314 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's it's actually two phases of that, because 315 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: this book's actually a relaunch of my very first book, 316 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: My Miracle Contract. I had never been published before, and 317 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: Thomas Nelson signed me, and I had no platform whatsoever. 318 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: And I remember the day I came back from that meeting, 319 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: just sitting at my kitchen table and weeping because I knew. 320 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: I knew it was grace. I knew it was a miracle. 321 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: And so the reason that was so significant is that 322 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: was the exact moment that everything was burning to the 323 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: ground at home. I remained in my marriage for eight 324 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: years past the point that I knew it was beyond saving. 325 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: I had five children out, you know, Yeah, And so 326 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: it was that moment that it was. I was just 327 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: beginning to realize, oh no, oh no, it's not going 328 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: to be fixed. And I got that original contract, and 329 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: of course I was in. I knew nothing about publishing, 330 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: and I was in. I was falling apart internally, so 331 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,719 Speaker 1: of course I wasn't very good at selling the book, 332 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: and it went out of print and it just kind 333 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: of sat there, and I went on to do a 334 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: lot of other things as a writer, and then I 335 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: had divorce, and then I had cancer and I just 336 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: kept thinking about this first book and longing for it 337 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: to have life. And so somewhere in that year of 338 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: recovery after cancer, I reached out to the publisher and 339 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: I just asked for mercy, and I said, look, this 340 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: is where I am, This is why I believe in 341 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: this book, and this is why I feel like I'm 342 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: in a better position this time around. And in another 343 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: great act of mercy, they gave me another chance, which 344 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: is unbelievable. And they didn't just give me another chance, 345 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: they returned it to its original title Wow, that I 346 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 1: had come up with in the beginning, And to me, 347 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: it just felt like a full circle moment, a moment 348 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: of grace, a moment when God was bringing life out 349 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: of the ashes. 350 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 2: Wow. Wow. Well I also see the Samaritan woman that 351 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 2: story in your story. That for our listeners who are like, 352 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 2: how can God ever use me? Like maybe the Samaritan woman, 353 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 2: how can God ever use me? And she was like, 354 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 2: I think the first missionary in scripture and hearing your story, 355 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,719 Speaker 2: I want our listeners if you're like, God couldn't use 356 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 2: me because of this or this or this, and Sherry's 357 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 2: here to say, I felt like I had nothing and 358 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 2: God used me in that moment, and that's what makes actually, 359 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 2: I would say, your story so powerful. Why do you 360 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 2: think and again this is I mean, we don't know 361 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 2: unless God tells us the why, so we can only speculate. 362 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 2: But why do you think that God chose that particular 363 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 2: season to both the first time give you the contract 364 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: and then the second time to relaunch the book. 365 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: Well, I think there was different levels of that, but 366 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: I think on one it was just an act of 367 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 1: tremendous compassion and it was him elevating me because mass 368 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: circumstances had really broken me over and over again over 369 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: the course of decades, and I really struggled to piece 370 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: myself back together with the grace and the help of 371 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: God each time. And it is really beaten down, you know. 372 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 1: And so when I received that first contract, it was 373 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: like a completely different experience than anything else. I felt 374 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: like my life was telling me at the moment, And 375 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: the second time around, I'm like, that is just like God. 376 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 1: It is just like God to take the moment of 377 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,239 Speaker 1: absolute devastation and not turn away from us in it, 378 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: but to draw nearer to us in it and to 379 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: bring you life again. But I also think there's something 380 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: to be said. I'm forgetting the name of the author 381 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: over this is about the wisdom of the sufferer. That 382 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 1: it is in suffering that many of us learned deep 383 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,239 Speaker 1: truths about God that we can offer as gifts to 384 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: the community of faith when we come out of that. 385 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: And I don't think that the church is always great 386 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: about recognizing that, but I think it's a truth that 387 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: God gives us gifts that then we can share with others. Yeah. 388 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 2: Well, I just want to give a little another little 389 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 2: mention to our listeners. When I'm hearing your story and 390 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 2: I'm just thinking of like emotional capacity, right, maybe people 391 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 2: in your life didn't know all the elements you had 392 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 2: that you that were like weighing heavy on your shoulder 393 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 2: during that season. So just another encouragement give your brothers 394 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 2: and sisters in Christ grace because they may be carrying 395 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 2: an emotional load that you're completely unaware of. One of 396 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 2: the things I find so powerful about your book and 397 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 2: that I really appreciated. I love that you both and 398 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 2: first grounded your reader in scripture and you're like, Okay, 399 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 2: go read this story for yourself. And then I also 400 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 2: loved how you like fleshed it out because what we 401 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 2: know about brain science that really helps readers to immerse 402 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 2: to experience Christ more fully. Do you feel like that 403 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 2: was just a Holy spirit moment? Is that something you're 404 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 2: like was was intentional? I had that play out. 405 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: I think it's a convergence of things. First of all, 406 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: I was really beginning to realize on my own, as 407 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: I learned about the culture and history of the Bible, 408 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: that hey, wait a minute, we're all filling in these 409 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: blank spaces in one way or the other. And when 410 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: we fill them in with our own cultural experience, which 411 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: is not a Middle Eastern culture, it's two thousand years 412 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: removed from this writing, it is easy to kind of 413 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: shade things strong direction, you know. And as I began 414 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 1: to learn things that allowed me to fill in more 415 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: of the gaps closer to the culture and history of 416 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: the Bible, it just was so profound for me, and 417 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: I really wanted to share that with others. But I 418 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: also revised at the same time, you know, I mentioned 419 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: that first meeting at Thomas Nelson, the publisher emeritus, looked 420 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: across the table at me and said, You're brain does 421 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: that work like other people's? And I decided to I 422 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: was like, okay, I want to take that as a compliment. 423 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,479 Speaker 1: But I realized that these vivid pictures that were in 424 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: my mind weren't necessarily in everyone else's mind, and so 425 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: I wanted to share the things I was learning about 426 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: the meaning and the culture and history of the Bible 427 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: for people that don't want to read archaeological reports. I 428 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: don't understand that, but God makes us all different, you know, 429 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: and I wanted to share all those things with them. 430 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: And then I knew you the power of story. Just 431 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: what you said, that story engages our mind and our hearts, 432 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: and because of that, we absorb things in a different way. 433 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: And Jesus taught in story, so we shouldn't be surprised 434 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: by that. I love that well. 435 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:47,440 Speaker 2: I would. This has been a great commed I wish 436 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 2: we could talk forever, because you've got chance to share. 437 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 2: But I'd like us to close with if you could 438 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 2: give our listeners some practical steps if they're really struggling. 439 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 2: They're like, cognitively, okay, I know God is love right, 440 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 2: but I don't feel his love and compassion. What are 441 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 2: maybe a couple one or two practical steps that you 442 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 2: would suggest for them to experience healing and maybe just 443 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 2: besides getting your book. 444 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: Well, I can just speak from my own experience, and 445 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: for me, it was just beginning to open the possibility 446 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: to that and asking God to come and to have 447 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 1: mercy on me and to heal what was in my heart, 448 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: and then from there to spend time in the gospel, 449 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: spend time with Jesus, you know, spend time watching how 450 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: He is interacting with men and women. Many of them 451 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: it was the darkest moments of their lives and sometimes 452 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:45,360 Speaker 1: we skip over that, but really profound devastation and how 453 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 1: was He interacting with them in those moments. And just 454 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: be patient with yourself because God's love is there for 455 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: you whether you're feeling it or not, and He's going 456 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: to stick with you. You can take the pressure off 457 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: and trust him to do the work. I love that. Well. 458 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 2: Again, it's a profound book, very deeply emotional and healing, 459 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 2: and a great way to experience Christ. So thank you 460 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 2: so much for this conversation and just for your writing 461 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 2: in your messy middle through the pain. I really think 462 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 2: that's probably why it came out so rich and so 463 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 2: deep is because you wrestled with those truths yourself. So 464 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 2: thank you. So much for sharing yourself. 465 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: Thank thank you Jennifer so much. 466 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,880 Speaker 2: I hope in that episode you were able to hear 467 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 2: God say to you, you are my beloved child, You 468 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 2: are accepted, you belong. I chose you, You are deeply loved. 469 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,199 Speaker 2: If you haven't already done so, I encourage you to 470 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 2: subscribe to this podcast so that then you won't miss 471 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 2: a single episode and share this episode with family, friends, 472 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 2: neighbors who could really use the reminder of their value 473 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 2: to Jesus Christ, of how much he loves them. We 474 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 2: know that many of our listeners find our content because 475 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 2: of people like you who share our episodes with their 476 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 2: family and friends, and we are so grateful for that. 477 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 2: Make sure to rate it. That encourages me and Carol, 478 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 2: and it helps others to find our content. Until next time, 479 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 2: may you live as one who truly has been set free.