Speaker 1: Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Here thousands of
Speaker 1: hours of Dennis's lectures, courses in classic radio programs. Then
Speaker 1: to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to Dennisprager dot com.
Speaker 2: Hi, everybody, This is the Ultimate Issues Hour on the
Speaker 2: Dennisprager Show. Every week at this time, an hour devoted
Speaker 2: to the subject of the great questions of life, whatever
Speaker 2: area is, from whether people are basically good to truly
Speaker 2: the meaning of life, to a whole host of the
Speaker 2: great issues of life. Welcome to the program. This is
Speaker 2: the Dennis Prager Show. And this is the hour where
Speaker 2: I take a subject that is truly basic and try
Speaker 2: to discuss it with you and have you call in
Speaker 2: and react and question and disagree or agree whatever it
Speaker 2: might be. I chose a basic one. Well, they're all basic,
Speaker 2: so that's a little redundant. I chose a basic one today.
Speaker 2: And that is the answer that many people give when
Speaker 2: you offer an argument for God's existence and you say,
Speaker 2: you know, where did everything come from? This, to me
Speaker 2: is one of the This, to me actually is the
Speaker 2: single most powerful argument for a creator God. Now that
Speaker 2: doesn't mean a personal God. It doesn't even mean a
Speaker 2: good God. Those are separate. These are all separate discussions,
Speaker 2: and they're often melded into one. And that's not a
Speaker 2: good thing intellectually. It just declarifies mystifies the subject. But
Speaker 2: one of the most powerful and perhaps the most powerful,
Speaker 2: single argument for a creator god is where did everything
Speaker 2: come from? I mean, whatever you see, you know it
Speaker 2: was made. Everything you see, you know it was, you
Speaker 2: know was made. If there is no God, then everything
Speaker 2: made itself? Is that absurd? I mean, just on the
Speaker 2: face of it, isn't that absurd? Things made themselves? Where
Speaker 2: did everything come from? It's so obvious, It's so obvious
Speaker 2: that it's an unanswerable It's an unanswerable argument, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: Where did it all come from? You have only two answers.
Speaker 2: One it came out, it came about by itself. And
Speaker 2: I characterized that as absurd because we can't even imagine
Speaker 2: the idea that things make themselves. The other is everything
Speaker 2: was always here. But we know that that's not true.
Speaker 2: Everything wasn't always here. There was a big bang. That
Speaker 2: is the overwhelming consensus of science today. Something banged itself
Speaker 2: into existence, or was banged into existence. Let there be
Speaker 2: bang is the answer that people who believe in a
Speaker 2: god offer. The very fact that there was light prior
Speaker 2: to any of the stars, and certainly before the sun,
Speaker 2: suggests that the very beginning let there be light does
Speaker 2: in fact suggest a big bang approach in Genesis. I'm
Speaker 2: not one to believe that they will read Genesis for science,
Speaker 2: but in this instance you certainly have. I'm sure the
Speaker 2: ancients were puzzled by this. What you have here? You
Speaker 2: have light before any of the things that bring light.
Speaker 2: I wonder what did the ancients think? I think we
Speaker 2: are far better to understand the very beginning of Genesis
Speaker 2: than the ancients were. So those of us who argue
Speaker 2: for a creator god have a far more rational argument.
Speaker 2: Things don't come about by themselves, and the idea that
Speaker 2: we went from nothing to you and me to the
Speaker 2: to this infinitely complex human with consciousness and and and
Speaker 2: and feelings and mind and and self awareness, which is
Speaker 2: what consciousness is about. Okay. I find that I find
Speaker 2: that literally incredible, in other words, lacking the ability to
Speaker 2: be credible, to be believable. But the answer that is
Speaker 2: so often given by people to the argument, well, you know,
Speaker 2: where did everything come from? Dennis Well where did God
Speaker 2: come from? You say that nothing can everything had to
Speaker 2: be made? Well, who made God? And I have heard
Speaker 2: this since I'm a kid, and I've never exactly been
Speaker 2: dazzled by it because it's it's it's it's a mean,
Speaker 2: meaningless question. It is meaningless. First of all, it substitutes
Speaker 2: a question for an answer. I want to know where
Speaker 2: did the entire material world come from? I want to know,
Speaker 2: so for you to ask me where did God come from?
Speaker 2: Doesn't answer the question at all. I'll deal with that
Speaker 2: question in a moment, but please understand that that answer
Speaker 2: that question is not an answer. It's deflecting the question.
Speaker 2: I want you to tell me, if you're an atheist,
Speaker 2: I want you to tell me where it all came from.
Speaker 2: And I want you to be honest enough to say
Speaker 2: it all came about on its own. The world made itself.
Speaker 2: I want you to be honest enough to say that's
Speaker 2: your position as an atheist. I find that an incredible position.
Speaker 2: I find it. I find my mind recoils at its
Speaker 2: inherent absurdity that something made itself. It is playing with
Speaker 2: words that something made itself, let alone the universe. Knowing that,
Speaker 2: knowing that it is an absurd position that the material
Speaker 2: world made itself from nothing to something on its own.
Speaker 2: The person who believes that has only one choice if
Speaker 2: they're not going to be intellectually honest, and that is
Speaker 2: to ask a question and not answer the one pose
Speaker 2: to them. Well, well, what they're saying is, well, I
Speaker 2: don't want to answer your question because I don't have
Speaker 2: an answer to your question, But by golly, you can't
Speaker 2: answer mine either, And Nana and nana, and that ends
Speaker 2: the debate. After all, who made God? But of course
Speaker 2: God is not material, so the question in and of
Speaker 2: itself is pointless. We're talking about how matter came about.
Speaker 2: God is not matter. Secondly, definitional to God is definitional.
Speaker 2: It's playing with words. Again. Definitional to God is that
Speaker 2: God always was. If God wasn't always, then God isn't God.
Speaker 2: God is not born. That is again the Genesis Revolution,
Speaker 2: the revolution of the Book of Genesis. God has no birth,
Speaker 2: like all of the gods of the non monotheistic world
Speaker 2: of the world's outside of the Jewish scripture, the all
Speaker 2: of them were born, but they were all material anyway,
Speaker 2: so of course they were born. But here is an
Speaker 2: immaterial God, no matter made of no matter. So please
Speaker 2: understand why if the question is even posed, well, who
Speaker 2: made God? It is in order to avoid what any
Speaker 2: atheist would recognize as a very difficult, indeed, let's be honest,
Speaker 2: impossible position to really hold that is that matter made itself.
Speaker 2: It's it's, it's it's it's believing in magic, it's believing
Speaker 2: in it that it's no longer magic. Gee, how did
Speaker 2: that elephant disappear? Well, we all knows a trick, but
Speaker 2: for the atheist it's not a trick. Matter made itself,
Speaker 2: but that would be a trick. The phone number here
Speaker 2: is one eighth Praeger one eight p R A G
Speaker 2: E R seven seven six, which digitally numerically is eight
Speaker 2: seven seven two four three triple seven six eight seven
Speaker 2: seven two four three triple seven six. You don't know
Speaker 2: how many people have written and call and its speeches
Speaker 2: have said to me as for as for example, Uh,
Speaker 2: a very common way of posing this question to me is, Dennis,
Speaker 2: what do I say to my kid when when my
Speaker 2: kids said who made God? And I've always known since
Speaker 2: I began lecturing that whenever somebody says what how do
Speaker 2: I answer my child? It's because they don't have an
Speaker 2: answer for themselves. Believe me, when you have answers for you,
Speaker 2: then you won't have answers for your child. And if
Speaker 2: you have answers for yourself, then you will for your child.
Speaker 2: So let's discuss this right now at on this the
Speaker 2: Ultimate Issues Hour on the Dennis Prager Show and John
Speaker 2: and Gray's Lake, Illinois. Thank you for calling.
Speaker 3: Outstanding show.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 3: There is a third answer, but you're not gonna like it,
Speaker 3: and that is we don't know yet, and I don't
Speaker 3: know why. And to me, that's the basis of religion
Speaker 3: or the origins of religion, is trying to answer the
Speaker 3: as yet unanswerable. But we, for instance, we do know
Speaker 3: or at least they're theorizing that there's this thing called
Speaker 3: dark matter, and so we're constantly learning more and more
Speaker 3: about the universe. Yes, but well I would much rather
Speaker 3: turn to science for those answers than to rely on right.
Speaker 2: I will stay on with me, Okay, stay on with me.
Speaker 2: It's a very very good and important subject you raised,
Speaker 2: so I want to I want to continue it with you. Well,
Speaker 2: we don't know yet, and science may not have the
Speaker 2: answer now, but science will have all these answers. I
Speaker 2: will respond to each of those objections, and they're important
Speaker 2: ones one eight Praguer seven seven six The Ultimate Issues
Speaker 2: Hour on the Dennis Prager Show.
Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
Speaker 2: Everybody, Dennis Prager here. This is the Ultimate Issues Hour
Speaker 2: every week now at this time, the hour is devoted
Speaker 2: to some great ultimate issue of life. We get so
Speaker 2: caught up and totally understandably in the events of the day,
Speaker 2: all of us do. I don't only mean talk show hosts,
Speaker 2: every one of you, and not only mean even the
Speaker 2: current events outside of your life, but I mean the
Speaker 2: daily events of our life, with our children, with our spouses,
Speaker 2: with our friends, with our work, and we forget to
Speaker 2: ask the great questions again and rethink them. So that's
Speaker 2: the purpose of this hour, and this one is a
Speaker 2: response to the question that people who don't believe in
Speaker 2: God offer when you say, when you make the argument
Speaker 2: for a creator God, well how did the material world
Speaker 2: come about? Did things invent themselves? Which is to me
Speaker 2: an unanswerable question, And then people say, well, who made God?
Speaker 2: And of course all it does is deflect from answering
Speaker 2: the question. But now we have John with some very
Speaker 2: good challenges. Hi, John, welcome back and Gray's Lake, Illinois.
Speaker 2: Now you you answered with number one, Well, your answer
Speaker 2: is we just don't know yet, right basically, yes, okay,
Speaker 2: and that that's that's intellectually, We're not talking emotionally. That
Speaker 2: intellectually satisfies you.
Speaker 3: Well, I would see intellectually, I can't subscribe to going
Speaker 3: with a supernatural in other words, outside of the laws
Speaker 3: of nature. Answer to me as as an atheist and
Speaker 3: as someone who looks, you know, at the tries to
Speaker 3: look at the scientific side of things that you know.
Speaker 3: For instance, you know you why do you think?
Speaker 2: Why do you? Yeah? Right, I know, John? But why
Speaker 2: do you see? Here's where we differ not in our
Speaker 2: acceptance of science. I completely accept science. Where we differ
Speaker 2: is your belief that science can answer everything. But you
Speaker 2: know that science doesn't have certain answers yet. No, no,
Speaker 2: no about no no science, no no way, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: forget about, forget about creation. Science cannot answer questions, all
Speaker 2: questions of feeling and emotion. It cannot answer every single
Speaker 2: question about a whole host of things. Unless you believe
Speaker 2: you are a robot. You have to you do believe
Speaker 2: I assume that. Do you believe you have freedom at all?
Speaker 2: Or you are entirely scientifically programmed?
Speaker 3: No, you do have freedom.
Speaker 2: Okay, the moment you then you are saying you are
Speaker 2: you are free, meaning that you can do things that
Speaker 2: are not scientifically explicable.
Speaker 3: But the building blocks that go to enable that are explicable, Yes.
Speaker 2: That's fine. The building blocks that go to explain certain things, yes,
Speaker 2: I agree with you. But why are there any building
Speaker 2: blocks at all? Is no more a scientific question? Then
Speaker 2: why do you love your child? Oh?
Speaker 3: It most absolutely is.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's where we different. But why do you say
Speaker 2: that though even scientists many will acknowledge there are realms
Speaker 2: that that I believe that there are things religion can't explain,
Speaker 2: But you don't believe that there's anything that science can't explain.
Speaker 2: You believe in religion more deeply than I believe in religion.
Speaker 2: You believe in science more deeply than I believe in religion.
Speaker 2: Science is your religion. I don't believe that. I don't believe.
Speaker 3: I would say human nature is my religion. If I
Speaker 3: had to have faith in something, it would be you know,
Speaker 3: if you're going to coin it as faith. It would
Speaker 3: be faith and the human intellect to rise above, you know,
Speaker 3: whatever challenges you may have.
Speaker 2: Well, it's done a pretty.
Speaker 3: It's done at Ultimately, you're.
Speaker 2: Right, John. That proves to me that you have it
Speaker 2: as a religion because because the human intellect has not
Speaker 2: only on rare occasions, is written risen above its nature.
Speaker 2: Look at all the evil in the world. Anyway, I
Speaker 2: thank you. It's a it's a very very important But
Speaker 2: you know, I don't believe, for example, I don't believe
Speaker 2: that religion can can develop antibiotics, Okay, I don't. I
Speaker 2: know that there were limitations to religion. Religion doesn't explain everything.
Speaker 2: So I have a more humble approach to religion than
Speaker 2: many people who believe in science have for science. I
Speaker 2: don't believe religion can explain everything. There is no religious
Speaker 2: person I know who does. You're going to find how
Speaker 2: to how to uh, how to make a carburetor in Leviticus.
Speaker 2: I mean, come on, we all know that religion has
Speaker 2: answers for X, Y, and Z. It gives me values,
Speaker 2: it gives me an explanation for the origins of the universe.
Speaker 2: It gives me much, but it doesn't. It doesn't tell
Speaker 2: me science, and science has its limitations. I wish people
Speaker 2: who believed in science were as humble as people who
Speaker 2: believe in God. And that's pretty ironic because they think
Speaker 2: that they're really arrogant to the people who believe in God.
Speaker 2: All right, e one eighth Praeger seven seven six. A
Speaker 2: deep thank you to John, and I know that he
Speaker 2: wanted to say a lot more. Rabbi David in Milwaukee.
Speaker 2: Rabbi David, thank you for calling.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Dennis. I'm calling to agree with you this time.
Speaker 4: I wanted to say that often when I discussed this
Speaker 4: idea with people about materialism creating itself, the material world
Speaker 4: creating itself, I just asked him the simple question, which
Speaker 4: highlights the paradox and the absurded by saying, when exactly
Speaker 4: did it create itself? Did it create itself before it existed?
Speaker 4: Wasn't How was it able to create itself if it
Speaker 4: didn't exist yet? Or did it create itself after exist
Speaker 4: it existed, in which case it obviously didn't need itself
Speaker 4: to create itself.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, exactly. That's that's a very good way of
Speaker 2: putting it. I appreciate it a lot. I'd like to
Speaker 2: hear from you. By the way, you tell me where
Speaker 2: you don't agree with me, and I that's right. Wall
Speaker 2: you know, did it happen before it? If it happened
Speaker 2: before it existed, then what created it. It's a good
Speaker 2: way of putting it exactly. I appreciate it. We go
Speaker 2: to Dmitri in San Francisco, California. Dmitri Dennis Prager High.
Speaker 5: I do believe in the creation theory, but I do
Speaker 5: have a problem comprehending things like all this eternity infinity.
Speaker 2: Dmitri, Welcome to the human race. There is no hu.
Speaker 2: There is no human, certainly myself included, who understands the
Speaker 2: word always.
Speaker 5: Oh, by the way, your cold screener said that she
Speaker 5: doesn't have a problem of understanding that. It was funny.
Speaker 2: Did you speak to her in Russian? Yeah? I say,
Speaker 2: did you speak to her in Russian? No?
Speaker 5: Ah?
Speaker 2: You should have asked her to pudny maas sigda, sigda,
Speaker 2: that's what you should have said.
Speaker 5: Something that drives me totally crazy. When I think about it.
Speaker 2: I agree it does you. You are so right to
Speaker 2: meetre It does drive you crazy. And you know what else,
Speaker 2: though here is I wonder if you've thought this one
Speaker 2: always drives you crazy, but a but a beginning also
Speaker 2: drives you crazy exactly, So that is this is perfect example,
Speaker 2: dear listeners. This is a perfect example of why I
Speaker 2: know our intellect cannot perceive so much. We don't understand
Speaker 2: the idea that, uh uh, that anything was always there,
Speaker 2: And we don't understand the idea that something began because
Speaker 2: what happened the day before it began? Well, you say,
Speaker 2: but time is relative and there was nothing before time,
Speaker 2: and you I understand. I can say those words too,
Speaker 2: but neither you nor I understand them. That's how limited
Speaker 2: our minds are. And we need to know that. You're
Speaker 2: listening to the Ultimate Issues Hour on the Dennis Prager Show.
Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
Speaker 2: All righty, my friends, you're listening to the Dennis Prager Show,
Speaker 2: and our each week devoted to the ultimate issues of life,
Speaker 2: and it's called the Ultimate Issues Hour one eight Praguer
Speaker 2: seven seven six. This one happens to be about God.
Speaker 2: There they vary in topic. Sometimes they are of a
Speaker 2: religious variety and most of the time or not. But
Speaker 2: this is a big one because it has to do
Speaker 2: with the greatest question in life, and it really is
Speaker 2: the greatest question, whether there is a God or not? Allenly,
Speaker 2: we should put that even as a subject. Why the
Speaker 2: single most important question in life is whether there is
Speaker 2: a God? Yeah, put that down as an ultimate issues
Speaker 2: our topic, because whether you believe in God or not.
Speaker 2: What I would do with that is attempt to convince
Speaker 2: you that that's the most important question. But right now
Speaker 2: I'm attempting to convince you that the typical response to
Speaker 2: the argument for God that hey, where did everything come from?
Speaker 2: Who made everything? The typical response is well, who made God?
Speaker 2: Is a meaningless response. Ay, it doesn't respond to the argument.
Speaker 2: It just asks a question. So there's no response. It's
Speaker 2: just an attempt to dismiss the questioner and be it
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense. God wasn't made the God we're talking about,
Speaker 2: the creator. God was not a God who was made.
Speaker 2: It is the God who was the maker. And I
Speaker 2: can if God was made God, isn't God simple as
Speaker 2: simple as that? In fact, do you know that God's name,
Speaker 2: God's name the God that the Judeo Christian world believes
Speaker 2: in that that name, which is said in English as Yahweh,
Speaker 2: that name means being. That's all it means. It means
Speaker 2: God's name. Did you know. I'm sure most of you,
Speaker 2: even biblically aware, do not know that that God's name
Speaker 2: is is not sure it for is he or isidore?
Speaker 2: But is just is. That's why when asked who are
Speaker 2: you by Moses at the Burning Bush, and God said
Speaker 2: I will be what I will be, or I am
Speaker 2: what I am, both translations ir accurate because Hebrew does
Speaker 2: not have a present tense for the verb to be.
Speaker 2: Many languages don't, as it happens, Slavic languages don't. Semitic
Speaker 2: languages don't. And so God is and was and will be.
Speaker 2: But that's not true for matter. Matter came about, and
Speaker 2: so the question is who made it come about or
Speaker 2: what Matt Matt in Sacramento, California, Dennis Prager, thank you
Speaker 2: for calling, Matt.
Speaker 6: Hi, Dennis, thanks for taking my call. I have come
Speaker 6: to understand that most people, when they speak about the
Speaker 6: existence of anything, they usually use the phrase everything has
Speaker 6: a call. I think science normally attributes that every effect
Speaker 6: has a cause God is not an effect. He has
Speaker 6: always eternally existed, and therefore, I think when we try
Speaker 6: to attribute a cause to God, we fall apart because
Speaker 6: we feel that most important word of effect.
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts, Yeah, that's a very fine point,
Speaker 2: when when everything has a cause, everything has a cause,
Speaker 2: but God's not a thing. Correct.
Speaker 6: There's one other phrase I commonly use in talking with
Speaker 6: people about this. If ever, there was a time when
Speaker 6: nothing existed, nothing would exist today, and that just gives
Speaker 6: more evidence to the eternality of God.
Speaker 2: Right, that's yeah, well, that's right. It's another excellent way, Matt,
Speaker 2: thank you. It's another excellent way of saying that nothing
Speaker 2: doesn't become something, I mean, does it. I'm asking those
Speaker 2: you see, I'm asking those of you who are atheists
Speaker 2: to acknowledge that I have to acknowledge difficulties in belief
Speaker 2: in God, the existence of such immense amount of injustice
Speaker 2: in the world and natural suffering. I acknowledge challenges, but
Speaker 2: I never meet atheists who acknowledge challenges. And isn't this
Speaker 2: a big one? G Nothing comes from nothing, So where
Speaker 2: did something come from? Where did the material world that
Speaker 2: we have come from? And certainly where did consciousness come
Speaker 2: from that. I am speaking to you now that I
Speaker 2: am aware of being Dennis, and you are aware of
Speaker 2: being you. Where did that come from? And the idea
Speaker 2: that it just came about you don't recoil in some way.
Speaker 2: They're just am talking intellectually, not emotionally, just intellectually. That
Speaker 2: doesn't seem absurd to you, but it is. It is
Speaker 2: absurd in that sense the atheist has to say about matter.
Speaker 2: Credo qui absurdimist famous statement of Turtill, I believe because
Speaker 2: it is absurd. We'll be back in a moment. You
Speaker 2: are listening to the Dennis Prager Show one eighth Prager
Speaker 2: seven seven six.
Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Dennis Prager Show. I thank you
Speaker 2: for doing so, and I'm talking to you about a
Speaker 2: famous question that is posed to those who believe in
Speaker 2: God as the creator of the universe. We who believe
Speaker 2: in God offers one of our paramount arguments, the argument
Speaker 2: that well, who made everything? And then we get the
Speaker 2: responsible who made God? Which again, sorry to repeat it,
Speaker 2: but I have to because I have to just set
Speaker 2: the agenda each time of all has no, it's no
Speaker 2: answer to the question. And secondly, God wasn't made. God
Speaker 2: does not matter. Matter is made, God is not. So
Speaker 2: let's go to your calls here and Cleveland, Ohio. Patrick Hye,
Speaker 2: thanks for calling.
Speaker 7: Good This is I'm actually a very conservative atheist. So
Speaker 7: you and I agree on almost everything, right when it
Speaker 7: comes to politic.
Speaker 2: No, I and I and I frankly I rather have
Speaker 2: you around than the the the person who theoretically believes
Speaker 2: in God and has the opposite values of me.
Speaker 7: I'm with you other one. Well, here, here's the thing.
Speaker 7: I think that everything has always existed in one form
Speaker 7: or another. You can't create or destroy energy of matter.
Speaker 7: You can change it from a liquid to a sound,
Speaker 7: a solid to a gas. You know, there's even a
Speaker 7: fourth to one plasma. But you can't create, completely destroy
Speaker 7: or create anything.
Speaker 2: Right, So you so your being eternal. Well, but that's
Speaker 2: not the claim that I think even science makes. Now.
Speaker 2: I think they claim that energy itself was made, that
Speaker 2: it wasn't always there, and and that is a leap
Speaker 2: of faith too, that everything was everything was always there.
Speaker 7: Well, I think the difference is that we have solid
Speaker 7: concrete proof matter.
Speaker 2: We have solid concrete proof that what that matters self, Imus, Wait,
Speaker 2: that matter is what I'm sorry, I didn't get the
Speaker 2: words that matter is what that matter exists. Of course,
Speaker 2: we no matter exist.
Speaker 7: Whereas I see no solid concrete proof that God exists.
Speaker 2: There is no solid concrete proof that God exists. It's
Speaker 2: like asking me to tell you whether that that water
Speaker 2: is not wet it is wet. There is no empirical
Speaker 2: proof of God's existence.
Speaker 7: It just seems to me that all of your beliefs
Speaker 7: are relying on men that lived in the desert thousands
Speaker 7: of years ago, on schools, and I just don't see
Speaker 7: how that holds any credibility. And you're to anyone else's.
Speaker 2: Well, the fact that that men wrote it on scrolls
Speaker 2: in the desert thousands of years ago is not here
Speaker 2: or there. It doesn't make it valid, and it doesn't
Speaker 2: make it invalid. Men. I mean, I think you would
Speaker 2: agree that if it was written on a scroll thousands
Speaker 2: of years ago, love your neighbor as yourself, you would
Speaker 2: still hold it's a good idea. Well I agree, Oh no, no, no, well,
Speaker 2: well by wait, so the fact it's a non sequitary.
Speaker 2: The fact that it's old or was came from the
Speaker 2: desert doesn't doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 7: Well, they lacked scientificcknowledge.
Speaker 2: You're right, So what I don't science?
Speaker 7: Well, if you're talking about mail issues, you're right.
Speaker 2: No, No, But I'm talking about I'm talking about I'm
Speaker 2: talking about an extra science, extra scientific above science. There
Speaker 2: was something that is not empirical. You don't you believe
Speaker 2: that all the only reality is empirical. I don't empirical
Speaker 2: for those who don't know, by the way, empirical means
Speaker 2: can be experienced by one of the five senses. And
Speaker 2: God can't be smelled, and God can't be felt, and
Speaker 2: God can't be heard in terms of the ear hearing
Speaker 2: sound waves, and God can't be seen as you see
Speaker 2: material a thing, and God can't be tasted. But the
Speaker 2: notion that only the empirical exists is what if we
Speaker 2: lost all of our senses, would there be no reality?
Speaker 2: We would not experience any reality, but it would not
Speaker 2: deny that there is reality. So the God is trans empirical. Now,
Speaker 2: I have many, many other arguments for God's existence, but
Speaker 2: I am narrow focusing on the one question. And it's
Speaker 2: a pleasure to talk to you, Patrick, and I thank
Speaker 2: you for your call on this hour of the Ultimate
Speaker 2: Issues Hour. I'm focusing on one specific reaction or or
Speaker 2: so called argument against those of us who believe in
Speaker 2: a creator God, and that is well, who made God?
Speaker 2: It is not an argument, that's what that's that's the
Speaker 2: point that I am making here. All right, and let's
Speaker 2: go to Graham in Roanoke, California. Graham Dennis Praeger, Thank you, hey.
Speaker 8: Mister Prager. I just wanted to introduce the concept that
Speaker 8: virtual matter, virtual sabatomic particles can instantaneously appear in disappear
Speaker 8: out of nowhere.
Speaker 2: Well, what do you mean by virtual Well.
Speaker 8: Real matter, the virtual that it disappears as quick as
Speaker 8: it appears within the vacuum of space.
Speaker 2: Right, But no, but it's not held that those things
Speaker 2: existed prior to the Big Bang. The scientific community today
Speaker 2: is is close to the universally accepting of a big bang,
Speaker 2: which means that all matter came into being at a
Speaker 2: given moment, at one trillionth of a second in time.
Speaker 8: Well, now, I mean supposedly that could have propagated from
Speaker 8: these instantaneous virtual sabatomic particles.
Speaker 2: No, but nobody offers that because that means that matter
Speaker 2: existed prior to the Big Bang. The fact that they
Speaker 2: disappeared doesn't mean that they're not matter.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's true, And I'm not making an argument against
Speaker 8: the creator God. I think God can dictate science, and
Speaker 8: I think science and God can coexist in relative harmony.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not only coexist, I think that they mutually reinforce.
Speaker 2: That's my view. I think that the study of science
Speaker 2: leads one to God. Obviously it doesn't lead everybody, but
Speaker 2: I'll tell you this. The fact that science arose as
Speaker 2: we understand science and the scientific method only arose in
Speaker 2: what we called Judeo Christian world is something to think about.
Speaker 2: Many many writers, including non religious ones, have noted that
Speaker 2: it was that God was a necessity for the for
Speaker 2: the development of science as we have it, the one
Speaker 2: God ushered in by the Old Testament, carried forth by
Speaker 2: the New that God made science possible because it meant
Speaker 2: that there was order to the universe. You could study
Speaker 2: thunder because there were laws that made thunder. There was
Speaker 2: no god of thunder who made thunder. It's a big deal.
Speaker 2: Final segment of this Ultimate Issues Hour coming up. Welcome
Speaker 2: your calls. Eight seven seven two four to three, triple
Speaker 2: seven six Dennis Prager. I'm Dennis Praguer, final segment of
Speaker 2: this edition of the Ultimate Issues Hour, and I have
Speaker 2: tempted to explain to you why the answer to the
Speaker 2: absolutely powerful argument for God's existence, well, where did everything
Speaker 2: come from? Who made everything? The answer given, well, who
Speaker 2: made God? Is meaningless. It's a meaningless answer. The honest
Speaker 2: atheist would have to say this. Look, I am baffled
Speaker 2: by the notion that matter came from nothing. It doesn't
Speaker 2: make any sense to me. But for whatever reason, I
Speaker 2: just can't believe that there is some supreme being or
Speaker 2: higher intelligence than made it. Okay, I can accept that,
Speaker 2: But then I think that that your argument against God
Speaker 2: is more psychological and or emotional, and I'm not putting
Speaker 2: it down at all than it is intellectual. And by
Speaker 2: the way, there's another possibility, and you could say, well, yes,
Speaker 2: there is a higher being that made everything it is
Speaker 2: and conceived to me that everything came about on its own.
Speaker 2: Matter doesn't make itself, let alone intelligence make itself. But
Speaker 2: then but you could say, all right, that makes sense
Speaker 2: to me, But I can't believe that this God you
Speaker 2: know knows me or or or cares about me. Okay,
Speaker 2: that's an entirely separate question about God. I am arguing
Speaker 2: right now for the creator God. Do I believe God
Speaker 2: knows you? Yes, I do. I don't know why God
Speaker 2: would would would make a world where you know you
Speaker 2: but he doesn't know you. It doesn't make any sense
Speaker 2: to me. I will make human beings conscious of themselves,
Speaker 2: but I am not conscious of them. Okay, it's possible,
Speaker 2: and you know it's possible. I don't know for any
Speaker 2: of these things as proofs. Incidentally, there are arguments for
Speaker 2: God's existence, not proofs. There are proofs for the existence
Speaker 2: of matter. God has not material, and so I ask
Speaker 2: that you forgive me Jerry and Joe and Bruce and
Speaker 2: Tom because the time is just about out. Joe wants
Speaker 2: to say that atheists believe in God, they just define
Speaker 2: God as the universe. Well, I don't want to make
Speaker 2: atheists sounding what they what they're not. I'll honor them.
Speaker 2: They don't believe in the God that I believe, so
Speaker 2: so they don't believe in God. God is more complex
Speaker 2: than matter, so idea that God made matter doesn't make sense. Hmm, Well,
Speaker 2: I would have needed more time Jerry to quite understand
Speaker 2: that because God is more complex than matter, therefore he
Speaker 2: wouldn't make it. Well, he for whatever reason he made
Speaker 2: this universe, and by the way, I don't know the reason,
Speaker 2: I mean I have well, we'll deal with that another time,
Speaker 2: which is exactly why I have an Ultimate Issues hour.
Speaker 2: I hope you've enjoyed it. This is Dennis Prager.
Speaker 1: This has been timeless wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit dennispraguer
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