WEBVTT - Timeless Wisdom - Ultimate Issues Hour: How Something Came From Nothing

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Here thousands of

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<v Speaker 1>hours of Dennis's lectures, courses in classic radio programs. Then

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<v Speaker 1>to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to Dennisprager dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi, everybody, This is the Ultimate Issues Hour on the

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<v Speaker 2>Dennisprager Show. Every week at this time, an hour devoted

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<v Speaker 2>to the subject of the great questions of life, whatever

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<v Speaker 2>area is, from whether people are basically good to truly

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<v Speaker 2>the meaning of life, to a whole host of the

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<v Speaker 2>great issues of life. Welcome to the program. This is

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<v Speaker 2>the Dennis Prager Show. And this is the hour where

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<v Speaker 2>I take a subject that is truly basic and try

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<v Speaker 2>to discuss it with you and have you call in

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<v Speaker 2>and react and question and disagree or agree whatever it

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<v Speaker 2>might be. I chose a basic one. Well, they're all basic,

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<v Speaker 2>so that's a little redundant. I chose a basic one today.

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<v Speaker 2>And that is the answer that many people give when

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<v Speaker 2>you offer an argument for God's existence and you say,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, where did everything come from? This, to me

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<v Speaker 2>is one of the This, to me actually is the

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<v Speaker 2>single most powerful argument for a creator God. Now that

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean a personal God. It doesn't even mean a

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<v Speaker 2>good God. Those are separate. These are all separate discussions,

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<v Speaker 2>and they're often melded into one. And that's not a

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<v Speaker 2>good thing intellectually. It just declarifies mystifies the subject. But

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<v Speaker 2>one of the most powerful and perhaps the most powerful,

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<v Speaker 2>single argument for a creator god is where did everything

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<v Speaker 2>come from? I mean, whatever you see, you know it

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<v Speaker 2>was made. Everything you see, you know it was, you

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<v Speaker 2>know was made. If there is no God, then everything

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<v Speaker 2>made itself? Is that absurd? I mean, just on the

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<v Speaker 2>face of it, isn't that absurd? Things made themselves? Where

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<v Speaker 2>did everything come from? It's so obvious, It's so obvious

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<v Speaker 2>that it's an unanswerable It's an unanswerable argument, in my opinion,

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<v Speaker 2>Where did it all come from? You have only two answers.

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<v Speaker 2>One it came out, it came about by itself. And

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<v Speaker 2>I characterized that as absurd because we can't even imagine

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<v Speaker 2>the idea that things make themselves. The other is everything

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<v Speaker 2>was always here. But we know that that's not true.

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<v Speaker 2>Everything wasn't always here. There was a big bang. That

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<v Speaker 2>is the overwhelming consensus of science today. Something banged itself

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<v Speaker 2>into existence, or was banged into existence. Let there be

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<v Speaker 2>bang is the answer that people who believe in a

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<v Speaker 2>god offer. The very fact that there was light prior

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<v Speaker 2>to any of the stars, and certainly before the sun,

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<v Speaker 2>suggests that the very beginning let there be light does

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<v Speaker 2>in fact suggest a big bang approach in Genesis. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not one to believe that they will read Genesis for science,

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<v Speaker 2>but in this instance you certainly have. I'm sure the

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<v Speaker 2>ancients were puzzled by this. What you have here? You

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<v Speaker 2>have light before any of the things that bring light.

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<v Speaker 2>I wonder what did the ancients think? I think we

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<v Speaker 2>are far better to understand the very beginning of Genesis

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<v Speaker 2>than the ancients were. So those of us who argue

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<v Speaker 2>for a creator god have a far more rational argument.

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<v Speaker 2>Things don't come about by themselves, and the idea that

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<v Speaker 2>we went from nothing to you and me to the

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<v Speaker 2>to this infinitely complex human with consciousness and and and

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<v Speaker 2>and feelings and mind and and self awareness, which is

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<v Speaker 2>what consciousness is about. Okay. I find that I find

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<v Speaker 2>that literally incredible, in other words, lacking the ability to

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<v Speaker 2>be credible, to be believable. But the answer that is

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<v Speaker 2>so often given by people to the argument, well, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>where did everything come from? Dennis Well where did God

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<v Speaker 2>come from? You say that nothing can everything had to

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<v Speaker 2>be made? Well, who made God? And I have heard

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<v Speaker 2>this since I'm a kid, and I've never exactly been

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<v Speaker 2>dazzled by it because it's it's it's it's a mean,

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<v Speaker 2>meaningless question. It is meaningless. First of all, it substitutes

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<v Speaker 2>a question for an answer. I want to know where

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<v Speaker 2>did the entire material world come from? I want to know,

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<v Speaker 2>so for you to ask me where did God come from?

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<v Speaker 2>Doesn't answer the question at all. I'll deal with that

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<v Speaker 2>question in a moment, but please understand that that answer

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<v Speaker 2>that question is not an answer. It's deflecting the question.

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<v Speaker 2>I want you to tell me, if you're an atheist,

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<v Speaker 2>I want you to tell me where it all came from.

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<v Speaker 2>And I want you to be honest enough to say

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<v Speaker 2>it all came about on its own. The world made itself.

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<v Speaker 2>I want you to be honest enough to say that's

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<v Speaker 2>your position as an atheist. I find that an incredible position.

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<v Speaker 2>I find it. I find my mind recoils at its

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<v Speaker 2>inherent absurdity that something made itself. It is playing with

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<v Speaker 2>words that something made itself, let alone the universe. Knowing that,

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<v Speaker 2>knowing that it is an absurd position that the material

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<v Speaker 2>world made itself from nothing to something on its own.

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<v Speaker 2>The person who believes that has only one choice if

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<v Speaker 2>they're not going to be intellectually honest, and that is

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<v Speaker 2>to ask a question and not answer the one pose

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<v Speaker 2>to them. Well, well, what they're saying is, well, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't want to answer your question because I don't have

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<v Speaker 2>an answer to your question, But by golly, you can't

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<v Speaker 2>answer mine either, And Nana and nana, and that ends

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<v Speaker 2>the debate. After all, who made God? But of course

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<v Speaker 2>God is not material, so the question in and of

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<v Speaker 2>itself is pointless. We're talking about how matter came about.

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<v Speaker 2>God is not matter. Secondly, definitional to God is definitional.

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<v Speaker 2>It's playing with words. Again. Definitional to God is that

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<v Speaker 2>God always was. If God wasn't always, then God isn't God.

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<v Speaker 2>God is not born. That is again the Genesis Revolution,

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<v Speaker 2>the revolution of the Book of Genesis. God has no birth,

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<v Speaker 2>like all of the gods of the non monotheistic world

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<v Speaker 2>of the world's outside of the Jewish scripture, the all

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<v Speaker 2>of them were born, but they were all material anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>so of course they were born. But here is an

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<v Speaker 2>immaterial God, no matter made of no matter. So please

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<v Speaker 2>understand why if the question is even posed, well, who

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<v Speaker 2>made God? It is in order to avoid what any

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<v Speaker 2>atheist would recognize as a very difficult, indeed, let's be honest,

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<v Speaker 2>impossible position to really hold that is that matter made itself.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's, it's it's it's believing in magic, it's believing

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<v Speaker 2>in it that it's no longer magic. Gee, how did

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<v Speaker 2>that elephant disappear? Well, we all knows a trick, but

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<v Speaker 2>for the atheist it's not a trick. Matter made itself,

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<v Speaker 2>but that would be a trick. The phone number here

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<v Speaker 2>is one eighth Praeger one eight p R A G

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<v Speaker 2>E R seven seven six, which digitally numerically is eight

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<v Speaker 2>seven seven two four three triple seven six eight seven

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<v Speaker 2>seven two four three triple seven six. You don't know

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<v Speaker 2>how many people have written and call and its speeches

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<v Speaker 2>have said to me as for as for example, Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>a very common way of posing this question to me is, Dennis,

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<v Speaker 2>what do I say to my kid when when my

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<v Speaker 2>kids said who made God? And I've always known since

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<v Speaker 2>I began lecturing that whenever somebody says what how do

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<v Speaker 2>I answer my child? It's because they don't have an

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<v Speaker 2>answer for themselves. Believe me, when you have answers for you,

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<v Speaker 2>then you won't have answers for your child. And if

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<v Speaker 2>you have answers for yourself, then you will for your child.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's discuss this right now at on this the

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<v Speaker 2>Ultimate Issues Hour on the Dennis Prager Show and John

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<v Speaker 2>and Gray's Lake, Illinois. Thank you for calling.

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<v Speaker 3>Outstanding show.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 3>There is a third answer, but you're not gonna like it,

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<v Speaker 3>and that is we don't know yet, and I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know why. And to me, that's the basis of religion

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<v Speaker 3>or the origins of religion, is trying to answer the

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<v Speaker 3>as yet unanswerable. But we, for instance, we do know

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<v Speaker 3>or at least they're theorizing that there's this thing called

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<v Speaker 3>dark matter, and so we're constantly learning more and more

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<v Speaker 3>about the universe. Yes, but well I would much rather

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<v Speaker 3>turn to science for those answers than to rely on right.

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<v Speaker 2>I will stay on with me, Okay, stay on with me.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a very very good and important subject you raised,

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<v Speaker 2>so I want to I want to continue it with you. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>we don't know yet, and science may not have the

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<v Speaker 2>answer now, but science will have all these answers. I

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<v Speaker 2>will respond to each of those objections, and they're important

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<v Speaker 2>ones one eight Praguer seven seven six The Ultimate Issues

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<v Speaker 2>Hour on the Dennis Prager Show.

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<v Speaker 1>This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

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<v Speaker 1>Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

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<v Speaker 2>Everybody, Dennis Prager here. This is the Ultimate Issues Hour

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<v Speaker 2>every week now at this time, the hour is devoted

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<v Speaker 2>to some great ultimate issue of life. We get so

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<v Speaker 2>caught up and totally understandably in the events of the day,

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<v Speaker 2>all of us do. I don't only mean talk show hosts,

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<v Speaker 2>every one of you, and not only mean even the

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<v Speaker 2>current events outside of your life, but I mean the

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<v Speaker 2>daily events of our life, with our children, with our spouses,

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<v Speaker 2>with our friends, with our work, and we forget to

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<v Speaker 2>ask the great questions again and rethink them. So that's

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<v Speaker 2>the purpose of this hour, and this one is a

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<v Speaker 2>response to the question that people who don't believe in

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<v Speaker 2>God offer when you say, when you make the argument

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<v Speaker 2>for a creator God, well how did the material world

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<v Speaker 2>come about? Did things invent themselves? Which is to me

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<v Speaker 2>an unanswerable question, And then people say, well, who made God?

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<v Speaker 2>And of course all it does is deflect from answering

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<v Speaker 2>the question. But now we have John with some very

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<v Speaker 2>good challenges. Hi, John, welcome back and Gray's Lake, Illinois.

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<v Speaker 2>Now you you answered with number one, Well, your answer

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<v Speaker 2>is we just don't know yet, right basically, yes, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>and that that's that's intellectually, We're not talking emotionally. That

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<v Speaker 2>intellectually satisfies you.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I would see intellectually, I can't subscribe to going

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<v Speaker 3>with a supernatural in other words, outside of the laws

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<v Speaker 3>of nature. Answer to me as as an atheist and

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<v Speaker 3>as someone who looks, you know, at the tries to

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<v Speaker 3>look at the scientific side of things that you know.

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<v Speaker 3>For instance, you know you why do you think?

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<v Speaker 2>Why do you? Yeah? Right, I know, John? But why

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<v Speaker 2>do you see? Here's where we differ not in our

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<v Speaker 2>acceptance of science. I completely accept science. Where we differ

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<v Speaker 2>is your belief that science can answer everything. But you

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<v Speaker 2>know that science doesn't have certain answers yet. No, no,

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<v Speaker 2>no about no no science, no no way, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 2>forget about, forget about creation. Science cannot answer questions, all

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<v Speaker 2>questions of feeling and emotion. It cannot answer every single

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<v Speaker 2>question about a whole host of things. Unless you believe

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<v Speaker 2>you are a robot. You have to you do believe

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<v Speaker 2>I assume that. Do you believe you have freedom at all?

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<v Speaker 2>Or you are entirely scientifically programmed?

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<v Speaker 3>No, you do have freedom.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, the moment you then you are saying you are

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<v Speaker 2>you are free, meaning that you can do things that

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<v Speaker 2>are not scientifically explicable.

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<v Speaker 3>But the building blocks that go to enable that are explicable, Yes.

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<v Speaker 2>That's fine. The building blocks that go to explain certain things, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>I agree with you. But why are there any building

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<v Speaker 2>blocks at all? Is no more a scientific question? Then

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<v Speaker 2>why do you love your child? Oh?

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<v Speaker 3>It most absolutely is.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's where we different. But why do you say

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<v Speaker 2>that though even scientists many will acknowledge there are realms

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<v Speaker 2>that that I believe that there are things religion can't explain,

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<v Speaker 2>But you don't believe that there's anything that science can't explain.

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<v Speaker 2>You believe in religion more deeply than I believe in religion.

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<v Speaker 2>You believe in science more deeply than I believe in religion.

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<v Speaker 2>Science is your religion. I don't believe that. I don't believe.

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<v Speaker 3>I would say human nature is my religion. If I

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<v Speaker 3>had to have faith in something, it would be you know,

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<v Speaker 3>if you're going to coin it as faith. It would

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<v Speaker 3>be faith and the human intellect to rise above, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>whatever challenges you may have.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's done a pretty.

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<v Speaker 3>It's done at Ultimately, you're.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, John. That proves to me that you have it

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<v Speaker 2>as a religion because because the human intellect has not

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<v Speaker 2>only on rare occasions, is written risen above its nature.

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<v Speaker 2>Look at all the evil in the world. Anyway, I

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<v Speaker 2>thank you. It's a it's a very very important But

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I don't believe, for example, I don't believe

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<v Speaker 2>that religion can can develop antibiotics, Okay, I don't. I

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<v Speaker 2>know that there were limitations to religion. Religion doesn't explain everything.

0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:04.200
<v Speaker 2>So I have a more humble approach to religion than

0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.480
<v Speaker 2>many people who believe in science have for science. I

0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:10.800
<v Speaker 2>don't believe religion can explain everything. There is no religious

0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:14.360
<v Speaker 2>person I know who does. You're going to find how

0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.320
<v Speaker 2>to how to uh, how to make a carburetor in Leviticus.

0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean, come on, we all know that religion has

0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:26.720
<v Speaker 2>answers for X, Y, and Z. It gives me values,

0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:29.440
<v Speaker 2>it gives me an explanation for the origins of the universe.

0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:32.040
<v Speaker 2>It gives me much, but it doesn't. It doesn't tell

0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:39.520
<v Speaker 2>me science, and science has its limitations. I wish people

0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.120
<v Speaker 2>who believed in science were as humble as people who

0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.280
<v Speaker 2>believe in God. And that's pretty ironic because they think

0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.800
<v Speaker 2>that they're really arrogant to the people who believe in God.

0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.200
<v Speaker 2>All right, e one eighth Praeger seven seven six. A

0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.040
<v Speaker 2>deep thank you to John, and I know that he

0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:01.120
<v Speaker 2>wanted to say a lot more. Rabbi David in Milwaukee.

0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:03.240
<v Speaker 2>Rabbi David, thank you for calling.

0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.200
<v Speaker 4>Thank you, Dennis. I'm calling to agree with you this time.

0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:10.760
<v Speaker 4>I wanted to say that often when I discussed this

0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.280
<v Speaker 4>idea with people about materialism creating itself, the material world

0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.160
<v Speaker 4>creating itself, I just asked him the simple question, which

0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.480
<v Speaker 4>highlights the paradox and the absurded by saying, when exactly

0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.360
<v Speaker 4>did it create itself? Did it create itself before it existed?

0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:25.720
<v Speaker 4>Wasn't How was it able to create itself if it

0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.120
<v Speaker 4>didn't exist yet? Or did it create itself after exist

0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.760
<v Speaker 4>it existed, in which case it obviously didn't need itself

0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:32.520
<v Speaker 4>to create itself.

0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.359
<v Speaker 2>Yes, right, exactly. That's that's a very good way of

0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:38.760
<v Speaker 2>putting it. I appreciate it a lot. I'd like to

0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:40.200
<v Speaker 2>hear from you. By the way, you tell me where

0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.440
<v Speaker 2>you don't agree with me, and I that's right. Wall

0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:47.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, did it happen before it? If it happened

0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:49.920
<v Speaker 2>before it existed, then what created it. It's a good

0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:53.040
<v Speaker 2>way of putting it exactly. I appreciate it. We go

0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.640
<v Speaker 2>to Dmitri in San Francisco, California. Dmitri Dennis Prager High.

0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.680
<v Speaker 5>I do believe in the creation theory, but I do

0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:09.080
<v Speaker 5>have a problem comprehending things like all this eternity infinity.

0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:13.800
<v Speaker 2>Dmitri, Welcome to the human race. There is no hu.

0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:18.639
<v Speaker 2>There is no human, certainly myself included, who understands the

0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:19.560
<v Speaker 2>word always.

0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:23.600
<v Speaker 5>Oh, by the way, your cold screener said that she

0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.679
<v Speaker 5>doesn't have a problem of understanding that. It was funny.

0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Did you speak to her in Russian? Yeah? I say,

0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:34.560
<v Speaker 2>did you speak to her in Russian? No?

0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:34.880
<v Speaker 5>Ah?

0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:40.280
<v Speaker 2>You should have asked her to pudny maas sigda, sigda,

0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:42.120
<v Speaker 2>that's what you should have said.

0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.359
<v Speaker 5>Something that drives me totally crazy. When I think about it.

0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.080
<v Speaker 2>I agree it does you. You are so right to

0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.359
<v Speaker 2>meetre It does drive you crazy. And you know what else,

0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:53.840
<v Speaker 2>though here is I wonder if you've thought this one

0:18:54.560 --> 0:19:00.119
<v Speaker 2>always drives you crazy, but a but a beginning also

0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:05.480
<v Speaker 2>drives you crazy exactly, So that is this is perfect example,

0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:09.879
<v Speaker 2>dear listeners. This is a perfect example of why I

0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:14.600
<v Speaker 2>know our intellect cannot perceive so much. We don't understand

0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:18.440
<v Speaker 2>the idea that, uh uh, that anything was always there,

0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.840
<v Speaker 2>And we don't understand the idea that something began because

0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.440
<v Speaker 2>what happened the day before it began? Well, you say,

0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:26.880
<v Speaker 2>but time is relative and there was nothing before time,

0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:30.160
<v Speaker 2>and you I understand. I can say those words too,

0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:35.080
<v Speaker 2>but neither you nor I understand them. That's how limited

0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.400
<v Speaker 2>our minds are. And we need to know that. You're

0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:41.280
<v Speaker 2>listening to the Ultimate Issues Hour on the Dennis Prager Show.

0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:47.000
<v Speaker 1>This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:01.120
<v Speaker 2>All righty, my friends, you're listening to the Dennis Prager Show,

0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.760
<v Speaker 2>and our each week devoted to the ultimate issues of life,

0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.280
<v Speaker 2>and it's called the Ultimate Issues Hour one eight Praguer

0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:10.879
<v Speaker 2>seven seven six. This one happens to be about God.

0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:17.080
<v Speaker 2>There they vary in topic. Sometimes they are of a

0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:19.560
<v Speaker 2>religious variety and most of the time or not. But

0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:23.080
<v Speaker 2>this is a big one because it has to do

0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:25.280
<v Speaker 2>with the greatest question in life, and it really is

0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:29.000
<v Speaker 2>the greatest question, whether there is a God or not? Allenly,

0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:32.480
<v Speaker 2>we should put that even as a subject. Why the

0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.080
<v Speaker 2>single most important question in life is whether there is

0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:38.439
<v Speaker 2>a God? Yeah, put that down as an ultimate issues

0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:43.119
<v Speaker 2>our topic, because whether you believe in God or not.

0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:46.640
<v Speaker 2>What I would do with that is attempt to convince

0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:52.560
<v Speaker 2>you that that's the most important question. But right now

0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm attempting to convince you that the typical response to

0:20:56.960 --> 0:21:01.800
<v Speaker 2>the argument for God that hey, where did everything come from?

0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:05.359
<v Speaker 2>Who made everything? The typical response is well, who made God?

0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:09.600
<v Speaker 2>Is a meaningless response. Ay, it doesn't respond to the argument.

0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:15.800
<v Speaker 2>It just asks a question. So there's no response. It's

0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:19.919
<v Speaker 2>just an attempt to dismiss the questioner and be it

0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:24.800
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make sense. God wasn't made the God we're talking about,

0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:27.119
<v Speaker 2>the creator. God was not a God who was made.

0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:31.679
<v Speaker 2>It is the God who was the maker. And I

0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:36.480
<v Speaker 2>can if God was made God, isn't God simple as

0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:41.160
<v Speaker 2>simple as that? In fact, do you know that God's name,

0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:46.760
<v Speaker 2>God's name the God that the Judeo Christian world believes

0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:56.840
<v Speaker 2>in that that name, which is said in English as Yahweh,

0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:03.040
<v Speaker 2>that name means being. That's all it means. It means

0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:06.520
<v Speaker 2>God's name. Did you know. I'm sure most of you,

0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:12.560
<v Speaker 2>even biblically aware, do not know that that God's name

0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:16.840
<v Speaker 2>is is not sure it for is he or isidore?

0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:25.480
<v Speaker 2>But is just is. That's why when asked who are

0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:28.080
<v Speaker 2>you by Moses at the Burning Bush, and God said

0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:30.040
<v Speaker 2>I will be what I will be, or I am

0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:32.920
<v Speaker 2>what I am, both translations ir accurate because Hebrew does

0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:35.879
<v Speaker 2>not have a present tense for the verb to be.

0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:43.040
<v Speaker 2>Many languages don't, as it happens, Slavic languages don't. Semitic

0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:52.000
<v Speaker 2>languages don't. And so God is and was and will be.

0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:57.760
<v Speaker 2>But that's not true for matter. Matter came about, and

0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:02.199
<v Speaker 2>so the question is who made it come about or

0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:08.240
<v Speaker 2>what Matt Matt in Sacramento, California, Dennis Prager, thank you

0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:09.000
<v Speaker 2>for calling, Matt.

0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:12.440
<v Speaker 6>Hi, Dennis, thanks for taking my call. I have come

0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:14.679
<v Speaker 6>to understand that most people, when they speak about the

0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:18.600
<v Speaker 6>existence of anything, they usually use the phrase everything has

0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:23.560
<v Speaker 6>a call. I think science normally attributes that every effect

0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:26.879
<v Speaker 6>has a cause God is not an effect. He has

0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:30.680
<v Speaker 6>always eternally existed, and therefore, I think when we try

0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:35.000
<v Speaker 6>to attribute a cause to God, we fall apart because

0:23:35.000 --> 0:23:38.040
<v Speaker 6>we feel that most important word of effect.

0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:41.160
<v Speaker 2>What are your thoughts, Yeah, that's a very fine point,

0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:46.040
<v Speaker 2>when when everything has a cause, everything has a cause,

0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:47.879
<v Speaker 2>but God's not a thing. Correct.

0:23:48.119 --> 0:23:50.479
<v Speaker 6>There's one other phrase I commonly use in talking with

0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:53.800
<v Speaker 6>people about this. If ever, there was a time when

0:23:53.880 --> 0:23:58.440
<v Speaker 6>nothing existed, nothing would exist today, and that just gives

0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:01.119
<v Speaker 6>more evidence to the eternality of God.

0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:05.200
<v Speaker 2>Right, that's yeah, well, that's right. It's another excellent way, Matt,

0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:07.800
<v Speaker 2>thank you. It's another excellent way of saying that nothing

0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:11.640
<v Speaker 2>doesn't become something, I mean, does it. I'm asking those

0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:14.480
<v Speaker 2>you see, I'm asking those of you who are atheists

0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:18.560
<v Speaker 2>to acknowledge that I have to acknowledge difficulties in belief

0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:22.320
<v Speaker 2>in God, the existence of such immense amount of injustice

0:24:22.320 --> 0:24:27.199
<v Speaker 2>in the world and natural suffering. I acknowledge challenges, but

0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:31.119
<v Speaker 2>I never meet atheists who acknowledge challenges. And isn't this

0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:37.040
<v Speaker 2>a big one? G Nothing comes from nothing, So where

0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:40.119
<v Speaker 2>did something come from? Where did the material world that

0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:43.320
<v Speaker 2>we have come from? And certainly where did consciousness come

0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:46.840
<v Speaker 2>from that. I am speaking to you now that I

0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:49.479
<v Speaker 2>am aware of being Dennis, and you are aware of

0:24:49.520 --> 0:24:55.840
<v Speaker 2>being you. Where did that come from? And the idea

0:24:55.880 --> 0:24:59.000
<v Speaker 2>that it just came about you don't recoil in some way.

0:24:59.080 --> 0:25:03.040
<v Speaker 2>They're just am talking intellectually, not emotionally, just intellectually. That

0:25:03.119 --> 0:25:08.959
<v Speaker 2>doesn't seem absurd to you, but it is. It is

0:25:09.040 --> 0:25:15.560
<v Speaker 2>absurd in that sense the atheist has to say about matter.

0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:20.080
<v Speaker 2>Credo qui absurdimist famous statement of Turtill, I believe because

0:25:20.080 --> 0:25:23.600
<v Speaker 2>it is absurd. We'll be back in a moment. You

0:25:23.640 --> 0:25:26.320
<v Speaker 2>are listening to the Dennis Prager Show one eighth Prager

0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:27.359
<v Speaker 2>seven seven six.

0:25:29.160 --> 0:25:32.480
<v Speaker 1>This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:41.600
<v Speaker 1>Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:44.840
<v Speaker 2>You're listening to the Dennis Prager Show. I thank you

0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:52.919
<v Speaker 2>for doing so, and I'm talking to you about a

0:25:53.040 --> 0:25:56.600
<v Speaker 2>famous question that is posed to those who believe in

0:25:56.720 --> 0:26:00.119
<v Speaker 2>God as the creator of the universe. We who believe

0:26:00.119 --> 0:26:04.760
<v Speaker 2>in God offers one of our paramount arguments, the argument

0:26:04.880 --> 0:26:08.679
<v Speaker 2>that well, who made everything? And then we get the

0:26:08.720 --> 0:26:14.879
<v Speaker 2>responsible who made God? Which again, sorry to repeat it,

0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:16.800
<v Speaker 2>but I have to because I have to just set

0:26:16.800 --> 0:26:20.200
<v Speaker 2>the agenda each time of all has no, it's no

0:26:20.600 --> 0:26:25.240
<v Speaker 2>answer to the question. And secondly, God wasn't made. God

0:26:25.280 --> 0:26:29.800
<v Speaker 2>does not matter. Matter is made, God is not. So

0:26:30.200 --> 0:26:34.840
<v Speaker 2>let's go to your calls here and Cleveland, Ohio. Patrick Hye,

0:26:34.880 --> 0:26:36.760
<v Speaker 2>thanks for calling.

0:26:37.160 --> 0:26:40.800
<v Speaker 7>Good This is I'm actually a very conservative atheist. So

0:26:40.840 --> 0:26:44.000
<v Speaker 7>you and I agree on almost everything, right when it

0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:45.240
<v Speaker 7>comes to politic.

0:26:45.040 --> 0:26:48.199
<v Speaker 2>No, I and I and I frankly I rather have

0:26:48.359 --> 0:26:53.679
<v Speaker 2>you around than the the the person who theoretically believes

0:26:53.680 --> 0:26:55.560
<v Speaker 2>in God and has the opposite values of me.

0:26:56.280 --> 0:26:59.560
<v Speaker 7>I'm with you other one. Well, here, here's the thing.

0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:03.000
<v Speaker 7>I think that everything has always existed in one form

0:27:03.040 --> 0:27:06.440
<v Speaker 7>or another. You can't create or destroy energy of matter.

0:27:06.480 --> 0:27:08.000
<v Speaker 7>You can change it from a liquid to a sound,

0:27:08.000 --> 0:27:11.320
<v Speaker 7>a solid to a gas. You know, there's even a

0:27:11.320 --> 0:27:14.880
<v Speaker 7>fourth to one plasma. But you can't create, completely destroy

0:27:15.320 --> 0:27:16.400
<v Speaker 7>or create anything.

0:27:17.560 --> 0:27:21.040
<v Speaker 2>Right, So you so your being eternal. Well, but that's

0:27:21.080 --> 0:27:23.360
<v Speaker 2>not the claim that I think even science makes. Now.

0:27:23.400 --> 0:27:27.000
<v Speaker 2>I think they claim that energy itself was made, that

0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:29.880
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't always there, and and that is a leap

0:27:29.920 --> 0:27:33.520
<v Speaker 2>of faith too, that everything was everything was always there.

0:27:34.320 --> 0:27:36.439
<v Speaker 7>Well, I think the difference is that we have solid

0:27:36.480 --> 0:27:38.680
<v Speaker 7>concrete proof matter.

0:27:39.200 --> 0:27:44.040
<v Speaker 2>We have solid concrete proof that what that matters self, Imus, Wait,

0:27:44.040 --> 0:27:45.760
<v Speaker 2>that matter is what I'm sorry, I didn't get the

0:27:45.800 --> 0:27:49.440
<v Speaker 2>words that matter is what that matter exists. Of course,

0:27:49.480 --> 0:27:50.320
<v Speaker 2>we no matter exist.

0:27:50.600 --> 0:27:53.159
<v Speaker 7>Whereas I see no solid concrete proof that God exists.

0:27:53.160 --> 0:27:55.880
<v Speaker 2>There is no solid concrete proof that God exists. It's

0:27:55.920 --> 0:27:58.560
<v Speaker 2>like asking me to tell you whether that that water

0:27:58.760 --> 0:28:03.840
<v Speaker 2>is not wet it is wet. There is no empirical

0:28:04.000 --> 0:28:06.120
<v Speaker 2>proof of God's existence.

0:28:07.359 --> 0:28:09.800
<v Speaker 7>It just seems to me that all of your beliefs

0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:13.600
<v Speaker 7>are relying on men that lived in the desert thousands

0:28:13.640 --> 0:28:17.240
<v Speaker 7>of years ago, on schools, and I just don't see

0:28:17.240 --> 0:28:21.920
<v Speaker 7>how that holds any credibility. And you're to anyone else's.

0:28:21.440 --> 0:28:24.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, the fact that that men wrote it on scrolls

0:28:24.119 --> 0:28:26.680
<v Speaker 2>in the desert thousands of years ago is not here

0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:29.600
<v Speaker 2>or there. It doesn't make it valid, and it doesn't

0:28:29.640 --> 0:28:33.560
<v Speaker 2>make it invalid. Men. I mean, I think you would

0:28:33.600 --> 0:28:35.760
<v Speaker 2>agree that if it was written on a scroll thousands

0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:37.920
<v Speaker 2>of years ago, love your neighbor as yourself, you would

0:28:37.960 --> 0:28:42.960
<v Speaker 2>still hold it's a good idea. Well I agree, Oh no, no, no, well,

0:28:42.960 --> 0:28:45.880
<v Speaker 2>well by wait, so the fact it's a non sequitary.

0:28:45.920 --> 0:28:47.840
<v Speaker 2>The fact that it's old or was came from the

0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:50.080
<v Speaker 2>desert doesn't doesn't mean anything.

0:28:50.560 --> 0:28:52.080
<v Speaker 7>Well, they lacked scientificcknowledge.

0:28:52.800 --> 0:28:57.200
<v Speaker 2>You're right, So what I don't science?

0:28:58.080 --> 0:29:00.000
<v Speaker 7>Well, if you're talking about mail issues, you're right.

0:29:01.120 --> 0:29:03.960
<v Speaker 2>No, No, But I'm talking about I'm talking about I'm

0:29:03.960 --> 0:29:08.560
<v Speaker 2>talking about an extra science, extra scientific above science. There

0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:12.560
<v Speaker 2>was something that is not empirical. You don't you believe

0:29:12.600 --> 0:29:17.400
<v Speaker 2>that all the only reality is empirical. I don't empirical

0:29:17.440 --> 0:29:20.520
<v Speaker 2>for those who don't know, by the way, empirical means

0:29:20.800 --> 0:29:26.440
<v Speaker 2>can be experienced by one of the five senses. And

0:29:26.520 --> 0:29:29.000
<v Speaker 2>God can't be smelled, and God can't be felt, and

0:29:29.040 --> 0:29:33.000
<v Speaker 2>God can't be heard in terms of the ear hearing

0:29:33.480 --> 0:29:36.840
<v Speaker 2>sound waves, and God can't be seen as you see

0:29:38.280 --> 0:29:45.320
<v Speaker 2>material a thing, and God can't be tasted. But the

0:29:45.400 --> 0:29:50.960
<v Speaker 2>notion that only the empirical exists is what if we

0:29:51.080 --> 0:29:54.000
<v Speaker 2>lost all of our senses, would there be no reality?

0:29:54.040 --> 0:29:56.480
<v Speaker 2>We would not experience any reality, but it would not

0:29:56.520 --> 0:30:06.520
<v Speaker 2>deny that there is reality. So the God is trans empirical. Now,

0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:09.240
<v Speaker 2>I have many, many other arguments for God's existence, but

0:30:10.040 --> 0:30:12.960
<v Speaker 2>I am narrow focusing on the one question. And it's

0:30:12.960 --> 0:30:14.800
<v Speaker 2>a pleasure to talk to you, Patrick, and I thank

0:30:14.840 --> 0:30:18.280
<v Speaker 2>you for your call on this hour of the Ultimate

0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:24.560
<v Speaker 2>Issues Hour. I'm focusing on one specific reaction or or

0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:27.320
<v Speaker 2>so called argument against those of us who believe in

0:30:27.360 --> 0:30:29.760
<v Speaker 2>a creator God, and that is well, who made God?

0:30:29.800 --> 0:30:33.120
<v Speaker 2>It is not an argument, that's what that's that's the

0:30:33.160 --> 0:30:37.560
<v Speaker 2>point that I am making here. All right, and let's

0:30:37.600 --> 0:30:45.160
<v Speaker 2>go to Graham in Roanoke, California. Graham Dennis Praeger, Thank you, hey.

0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:48.800
<v Speaker 8>Mister Prager. I just wanted to introduce the concept that

0:30:49.000 --> 0:30:55.920
<v Speaker 8>virtual matter, virtual sabatomic particles can instantaneously appear in disappear

0:30:56.000 --> 0:30:56.720
<v Speaker 8>out of nowhere.

0:30:56.800 --> 0:30:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, what do you mean by virtual Well.

0:31:00.440 --> 0:31:05.480
<v Speaker 8>Real matter, the virtual that it disappears as quick as

0:31:05.520 --> 0:31:08.880
<v Speaker 8>it appears within the vacuum of space.

0:31:09.240 --> 0:31:11.640
<v Speaker 2>Right, But no, but it's not held that those things

0:31:11.720 --> 0:31:17.000
<v Speaker 2>existed prior to the Big Bang. The scientific community today

0:31:17.360 --> 0:31:21.280
<v Speaker 2>is is close to the universally accepting of a big bang,

0:31:21.320 --> 0:31:24.600
<v Speaker 2>which means that all matter came into being at a

0:31:24.640 --> 0:31:28.640
<v Speaker 2>given moment, at one trillionth of a second in time.

0:31:29.200 --> 0:31:33.120
<v Speaker 8>Well, now, I mean supposedly that could have propagated from

0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:36.320
<v Speaker 8>these instantaneous virtual sabatomic particles.

0:31:36.760 --> 0:31:40.320
<v Speaker 2>No, but nobody offers that because that means that matter

0:31:40.440 --> 0:31:44.200
<v Speaker 2>existed prior to the Big Bang. The fact that they

0:31:44.240 --> 0:31:46.160
<v Speaker 2>disappeared doesn't mean that they're not matter.

0:31:47.560 --> 0:31:50.880
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, that's true, And I'm not making an argument against

0:31:50.880 --> 0:31:55.040
<v Speaker 8>the creator God. I think God can dictate science, and

0:31:55.120 --> 0:31:59.160
<v Speaker 8>I think science and God can coexist in relative harmony.

0:31:59.480 --> 0:32:03.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, not only coexist, I think that they mutually reinforce.

0:32:03.880 --> 0:32:06.800
<v Speaker 2>That's my view. I think that the study of science

0:32:06.880 --> 0:32:10.160
<v Speaker 2>leads one to God. Obviously it doesn't lead everybody, but

0:32:10.200 --> 0:32:13.920
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you this. The fact that science arose as

0:32:13.960 --> 0:32:18.440
<v Speaker 2>we understand science and the scientific method only arose in

0:32:18.440 --> 0:32:22.560
<v Speaker 2>what we called Judeo Christian world is something to think about.

0:32:24.280 --> 0:32:30.120
<v Speaker 2>Many many writers, including non religious ones, have noted that

0:32:30.200 --> 0:32:33.880
<v Speaker 2>it was that God was a necessity for the for

0:32:34.000 --> 0:32:37.840
<v Speaker 2>the development of science as we have it, the one

0:32:37.920 --> 0:32:41.720
<v Speaker 2>God ushered in by the Old Testament, carried forth by

0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:46.320
<v Speaker 2>the New that God made science possible because it meant

0:32:46.320 --> 0:32:49.640
<v Speaker 2>that there was order to the universe. You could study

0:32:49.760 --> 0:32:53.440
<v Speaker 2>thunder because there were laws that made thunder. There was

0:32:53.520 --> 0:32:58.400
<v Speaker 2>no god of thunder who made thunder. It's a big deal.

0:33:00.760 --> 0:33:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Final segment of this Ultimate Issues Hour coming up. Welcome

0:33:03.920 --> 0:33:06.440
<v Speaker 2>your calls. Eight seven seven two four to three, triple

0:33:06.520 --> 0:33:12.080
<v Speaker 2>seven six Dennis Prager. I'm Dennis Praguer, final segment of

0:33:12.120 --> 0:33:16.760
<v Speaker 2>this edition of the Ultimate Issues Hour, and I have

0:33:18.800 --> 0:33:23.280
<v Speaker 2>tempted to explain to you why the answer to the

0:33:24.000 --> 0:33:31.680
<v Speaker 2>absolutely powerful argument for God's existence, well, where did everything

0:33:31.720 --> 0:33:34.920
<v Speaker 2>come from? Who made everything? The answer given, well, who

0:33:34.920 --> 0:33:39.240
<v Speaker 2>made God? Is meaningless. It's a meaningless answer. The honest

0:33:39.240 --> 0:33:43.640
<v Speaker 2>atheist would have to say this. Look, I am baffled

0:33:43.640 --> 0:33:46.680
<v Speaker 2>by the notion that matter came from nothing. It doesn't

0:33:46.680 --> 0:33:50.360
<v Speaker 2>make any sense to me. But for whatever reason, I

0:33:50.480 --> 0:33:54.080
<v Speaker 2>just can't believe that there is some supreme being or

0:33:54.160 --> 0:34:00.160
<v Speaker 2>higher intelligence than made it. Okay, I can accept that,

0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:03.080
<v Speaker 2>But then I think that that your argument against God

0:34:03.120 --> 0:34:07.600
<v Speaker 2>is more psychological and or emotional, and I'm not putting

0:34:07.640 --> 0:34:12.000
<v Speaker 2>it down at all than it is intellectual. And by

0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:16.000
<v Speaker 2>the way, there's another possibility, and you could say, well, yes,

0:34:16.080 --> 0:34:18.439
<v Speaker 2>there is a higher being that made everything it is

0:34:18.440 --> 0:34:21.120
<v Speaker 2>and conceived to me that everything came about on its own.

0:34:21.160 --> 0:34:27.680
<v Speaker 2>Matter doesn't make itself, let alone intelligence make itself. But

0:34:28.440 --> 0:34:31.239
<v Speaker 2>then but you could say, all right, that makes sense

0:34:31.280 --> 0:34:33.880
<v Speaker 2>to me, But I can't believe that this God you

0:34:33.920 --> 0:34:38.560
<v Speaker 2>know knows me or or or cares about me. Okay,

0:34:39.040 --> 0:34:42.000
<v Speaker 2>that's an entirely separate question about God. I am arguing

0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:45.560
<v Speaker 2>right now for the creator God. Do I believe God

0:34:45.640 --> 0:34:47.319
<v Speaker 2>knows you? Yes, I do. I don't know why God

0:34:47.360 --> 0:34:49.640
<v Speaker 2>would would would make a world where you know you

0:34:49.760 --> 0:34:53.000
<v Speaker 2>but he doesn't know you. It doesn't make any sense

0:34:53.040 --> 0:34:57.320
<v Speaker 2>to me. I will make human beings conscious of themselves,

0:34:57.360 --> 0:35:01.160
<v Speaker 2>but I am not conscious of them. Okay, it's possible,

0:35:01.880 --> 0:35:04.319
<v Speaker 2>and you know it's possible. I don't know for any

0:35:04.360 --> 0:35:08.160
<v Speaker 2>of these things as proofs. Incidentally, there are arguments for

0:35:08.239 --> 0:35:14.440
<v Speaker 2>God's existence, not proofs. There are proofs for the existence

0:35:14.600 --> 0:35:25.120
<v Speaker 2>of matter. God has not material, and so I ask

0:35:25.200 --> 0:35:28.879
<v Speaker 2>that you forgive me Jerry and Joe and Bruce and

0:35:28.920 --> 0:35:33.799
<v Speaker 2>Tom because the time is just about out. Joe wants

0:35:33.840 --> 0:35:35.920
<v Speaker 2>to say that atheists believe in God, they just define

0:35:35.960 --> 0:35:39.120
<v Speaker 2>God as the universe. Well, I don't want to make

0:35:39.160 --> 0:35:42.560
<v Speaker 2>atheists sounding what they what they're not. I'll honor them.

0:35:42.600 --> 0:35:45.880
<v Speaker 2>They don't believe in the God that I believe, so

0:35:45.880 --> 0:35:50.440
<v Speaker 2>so they don't believe in God. God is more complex

0:35:50.520 --> 0:35:57.000
<v Speaker 2>than matter, so idea that God made matter doesn't make sense. Hmm, Well,

0:35:57.000 --> 0:35:59.600
<v Speaker 2>I would have needed more time Jerry to quite understand

0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:03.200
<v Speaker 2>that because God is more complex than matter, therefore he

0:36:03.200 --> 0:36:05.839
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't make it. Well, he for whatever reason he made

0:36:05.880 --> 0:36:08.120
<v Speaker 2>this universe, and by the way, I don't know the reason,

0:36:08.280 --> 0:36:10.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean I have well, we'll deal with that another time,

0:36:11.200 --> 0:36:14.680
<v Speaker 2>which is exactly why I have an Ultimate Issues hour.

0:36:15.520 --> 0:36:18.080
<v Speaker 2>I hope you've enjoyed it. This is Dennis Prager.

0:36:32.400 --> 0:36:36.760
<v Speaker 1>This has been timeless wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit dennispraguer

0:36:36.800 --> 0:36:40.320
<v Speaker 1>dot com for thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses,

0:36:40.360 --> 0:36:45.000
<v Speaker 1>and classic radio programs, and to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles.