1 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Here thousands of 2 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: hours of Dennis's lectures, courses in classic radio programs. Then 3 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:39,279 Speaker 1: to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles, go to Dennisprager dot com. 4 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: Hi, everybody, This is the Ultimate Issues Hour on the 5 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:51,319 Speaker 2: Dennisprager Show. Every week at this time, an hour devoted 6 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: to the subject of the great questions of life, whatever 7 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 2: area is, from whether people are basically good to truly 8 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 2: the meaning of life, to a whole host of the 9 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 2: great issues of life. Welcome to the program. This is 10 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 2: the Dennis Prager Show. And this is the hour where 11 00:01:08,479 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: I take a subject that is truly basic and try 12 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 2: to discuss it with you and have you call in 13 00:01:14,759 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 2: and react and question and disagree or agree whatever it 14 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:23,559 Speaker 2: might be. I chose a basic one. Well, they're all basic, 15 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 2: so that's a little redundant. I chose a basic one today. 16 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 2: And that is the answer that many people give when 17 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 2: you offer an argument for God's existence and you say, 18 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 2: you know, where did everything come from? This, to me 19 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 2: is one of the This, to me actually is the 20 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: single most powerful argument for a creator God. Now that 21 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: doesn't mean a personal God. It doesn't even mean a 22 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 2: good God. Those are separate. These are all separate discussions, 23 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 2: and they're often melded into one. And that's not a 24 00:01:53,640 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 2: good thing intellectually. It just declarifies mystifies the subject. But 25 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: one of the most powerful and perhaps the most powerful, 26 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: single argument for a creator god is where did everything 27 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 2: come from? I mean, whatever you see, you know it 28 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 2: was made. Everything you see, you know it was, you 29 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 2: know was made. If there is no God, then everything 30 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 2: made itself? Is that absurd? I mean, just on the 31 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 2: face of it, isn't that absurd? Things made themselves? Where 32 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 2: did everything come from? It's so obvious, It's so obvious 33 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 2: that it's an unanswerable It's an unanswerable argument, in my opinion, 34 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: Where did it all come from? You have only two answers. 35 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: One it came out, it came about by itself. And 36 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 2: I characterized that as absurd because we can't even imagine 37 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 2: the idea that things make themselves. The other is everything 38 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 2: was always here. But we know that that's not true. 39 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: Everything wasn't always here. There was a big bang. That 40 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: is the overwhelming consensus of science today. Something banged itself 41 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 2: into existence, or was banged into existence. Let there be 42 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: bang is the answer that people who believe in a 43 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 2: god offer. The very fact that there was light prior 44 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: to any of the stars, and certainly before the sun, 45 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: suggests that the very beginning let there be light does 46 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: in fact suggest a big bang approach in Genesis. I'm 47 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: not one to believe that they will read Genesis for science, 48 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: but in this instance you certainly have. I'm sure the 49 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: ancients were puzzled by this. What you have here? You 50 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 2: have light before any of the things that bring light. 51 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: I wonder what did the ancients think? I think we 52 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: are far better to understand the very beginning of Genesis 53 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 2: than the ancients were. So those of us who argue 54 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: for a creator god have a far more rational argument. 55 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 2: Things don't come about by themselves, and the idea that 56 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,999 Speaker 2: we went from nothing to you and me to the 57 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 2: to this infinitely complex human with consciousness and and and 58 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 2: and feelings and mind and and self awareness, which is 59 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 2: what consciousness is about. Okay. I find that I find 60 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 2: that literally incredible, in other words, lacking the ability to 61 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: be credible, to be believable. But the answer that is 62 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 2: so often given by people to the argument, well, you know, 63 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 2: where did everything come from? Dennis Well where did God 64 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 2: come from? You say that nothing can everything had to 65 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: be made? Well, who made God? And I have heard 66 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: this since I'm a kid, and I've never exactly been 67 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 2: dazzled by it because it's it's it's it's a mean, 68 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 2: meaningless question. It is meaningless. First of all, it substitutes 69 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 2: a question for an answer. I want to know where 70 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 2: did the entire material world come from? I want to know, 71 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: so for you to ask me where did God come from? 72 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 2: Doesn't answer the question at all. I'll deal with that 73 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 2: question in a moment, but please understand that that answer 74 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: that question is not an answer. It's deflecting the question. 75 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: I want you to tell me, if you're an atheist, 76 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 2: I want you to tell me where it all came from. 77 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 2: And I want you to be honest enough to say 78 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 2: it all came about on its own. The world made itself. 79 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 2: I want you to be honest enough to say that's 80 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 2: your position as an atheist. I find that an incredible position. 81 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 2: I find it. I find my mind recoils at its 82 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 2: inherent absurdity that something made itself. It is playing with 83 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: words that something made itself, let alone the universe. Knowing that, 84 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 2: knowing that it is an absurd position that the material 85 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 2: world made itself from nothing to something on its own. 86 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 2: The person who believes that has only one choice if 87 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: they're not going to be intellectually honest, and that is 88 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: to ask a question and not answer the one pose 89 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 2: to them. Well, well, what they're saying is, well, I 90 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 2: don't want to answer your question because I don't have 91 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 2: an answer to your question, But by golly, you can't 92 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 2: answer mine either, And Nana and nana, and that ends 93 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 2: the debate. After all, who made God? But of course 94 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: God is not material, so the question in and of 95 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 2: itself is pointless. We're talking about how matter came about. 96 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 2: God is not matter. Secondly, definitional to God is definitional. 97 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 2: It's playing with words. Again. Definitional to God is that 98 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 2: God always was. If God wasn't always, then God isn't God. 99 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 2: God is not born. That is again the Genesis Revolution, 100 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: the revolution of the Book of Genesis. God has no birth, 101 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 2: like all of the gods of the non monotheistic world 102 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 2: of the world's outside of the Jewish scripture, the all 103 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 2: of them were born, but they were all material anyway, 104 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 2: so of course they were born. But here is an 105 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: immaterial God, no matter made of no matter. So please 106 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: understand why if the question is even posed, well, who 107 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 2: made God? It is in order to avoid what any 108 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 2: atheist would recognize as a very difficult, indeed, let's be honest, 109 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 2: impossible position to really hold that is that matter made itself. 110 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 2: It's it's, it's it's it's believing in magic, it's believing 111 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 2: in it that it's no longer magic. Gee, how did 112 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 2: that elephant disappear? Well, we all knows a trick, but 113 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 2: for the atheist it's not a trick. Matter made itself, 114 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 2: but that would be a trick. The phone number here 115 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 2: is one eighth Praeger one eight p R A G 116 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 2: E R seven seven six, which digitally numerically is eight 117 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 2: seven seven two four three triple seven six eight seven 118 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 2: seven two four three triple seven six. You don't know 119 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 2: how many people have written and call and its speeches 120 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: have said to me as for as for example, Uh, 121 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: a very common way of posing this question to me is, Dennis, 122 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 2: what do I say to my kid when when my 123 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: kids said who made God? And I've always known since 124 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 2: I began lecturing that whenever somebody says what how do 125 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: I answer my child? It's because they don't have an 126 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 2: answer for themselves. Believe me, when you have answers for you, 127 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 2: then you won't have answers for your child. And if 128 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 2: you have answers for yourself, then you will for your child. 129 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 2: So let's discuss this right now at on this the 130 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 2: Ultimate Issues Hour on the Dennis Prager Show and John 131 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,359 Speaker 2: and Gray's Lake, Illinois. Thank you for calling. 132 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 3: Outstanding show. 133 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 2: Thank you. 134 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 3: There is a third answer, but you're not gonna like it, 135 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 3: and that is we don't know yet, and I don't 136 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 3: know why. And to me, that's the basis of religion 137 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 3: or the origins of religion, is trying to answer the 138 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 3: as yet unanswerable. But we, for instance, we do know 139 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 3: or at least they're theorizing that there's this thing called 140 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 3: dark matter, and so we're constantly learning more and more 141 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 3: about the universe. Yes, but well I would much rather 142 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 3: turn to science for those answers than to rely on right. 143 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: I will stay on with me, Okay, stay on with me. 144 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 2: It's a very very good and important subject you raised, 145 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 2: so I want to I want to continue it with you. Well, 146 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 2: we don't know yet, and science may not have the 147 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 2: answer now, but science will have all these answers. I 148 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 2: will respond to each of those objections, and they're important 149 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 2: ones one eight Praguer seven seven six The Ultimate Issues 150 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 2: Hour on the Dennis Prager Show. 151 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this. 152 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom. 153 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 2: Everybody, Dennis Prager here. This is the Ultimate Issues Hour 154 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 2: every week now at this time, the hour is devoted 155 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 2: to some great ultimate issue of life. We get so 156 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: caught up and totally understandably in the events of the day, 157 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 2: all of us do. I don't only mean talk show hosts, 158 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 2: every one of you, and not only mean even the 159 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 2: current events outside of your life, but I mean the 160 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 2: daily events of our life, with our children, with our spouses, 161 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 2: with our friends, with our work, and we forget to 162 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 2: ask the great questions again and rethink them. So that's 163 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 2: the purpose of this hour, and this one is a 164 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 2: response to the question that people who don't believe in 165 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 2: God offer when you say, when you make the argument 166 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 2: for a creator God, well how did the material world 167 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 2: come about? Did things invent themselves? Which is to me 168 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 2: an unanswerable question, And then people say, well, who made God? 169 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 2: And of course all it does is deflect from answering 170 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 2: the question. But now we have John with some very 171 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 2: good challenges. Hi, John, welcome back and Gray's Lake, Illinois. 172 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 2: Now you you answered with number one, Well, your answer 173 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 2: is we just don't know yet, right basically, yes, okay, 174 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 2: and that that's that's intellectually, We're not talking emotionally. That 175 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 2: intellectually satisfies you. 176 00:12:52,920 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 3: Well, I would see intellectually, I can't subscribe to going 177 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 3: with a supernatural in other words, outside of the laws 178 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 3: of nature. Answer to me as as an atheist and 179 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 3: as someone who looks, you know, at the tries to 180 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 3: look at the scientific side of things that you know. 181 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 3: For instance, you know you why do you think? 182 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: Why do you? Yeah? Right, I know, John? But why 183 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 2: do you see? Here's where we differ not in our 184 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 2: acceptance of science. I completely accept science. Where we differ 185 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 2: is your belief that science can answer everything. But you 186 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 2: know that science doesn't have certain answers yet. No, no, 187 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 2: no about no no science, no no way, no, no, no, 188 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: forget about, forget about creation. Science cannot answer questions, all 189 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 2: questions of feeling and emotion. It cannot answer every single 190 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 2: question about a whole host of things. Unless you believe 191 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 2: you are a robot. You have to you do believe 192 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 2: I assume that. Do you believe you have freedom at all? 193 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 2: Or you are entirely scientifically programmed? 194 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 3: No, you do have freedom. 195 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 2: Okay, the moment you then you are saying you are 196 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 2: you are free, meaning that you can do things that 197 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 2: are not scientifically explicable. 198 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 3: But the building blocks that go to enable that are explicable, Yes. 199 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 2: That's fine. The building blocks that go to explain certain things, yes, 200 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 2: I agree with you. But why are there any building 201 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 2: blocks at all? Is no more a scientific question? Then 202 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 2: why do you love your child? Oh? 203 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 3: It most absolutely is. 204 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 2: Okay, that's where we different. But why do you say 205 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: that though even scientists many will acknowledge there are realms 206 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 2: that that I believe that there are things religion can't explain, 207 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 2: But you don't believe that there's anything that science can't explain. 208 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 2: You believe in religion more deeply than I believe in religion. 209 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 2: You believe in science more deeply than I believe in religion. 210 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 2: Science is your religion. I don't believe that. I don't believe. 211 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 3: I would say human nature is my religion. If I 212 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 3: had to have faith in something, it would be you know, 213 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 3: if you're going to coin it as faith. It would 214 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 3: be faith and the human intellect to rise above, you know, 215 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 3: whatever challenges you may have. 216 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 2: Well, it's done a pretty. 217 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 3: It's done at Ultimately, you're. 218 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 2: Right, John. That proves to me that you have it 219 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 2: as a religion because because the human intellect has not 220 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 2: only on rare occasions, is written risen above its nature. 221 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: Look at all the evil in the world. Anyway, I 222 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 2: thank you. It's a it's a very very important But 223 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 2: you know, I don't believe, for example, I don't believe 224 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 2: that religion can can develop antibiotics, Okay, I don't. I 225 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 2: know that there were limitations to religion. Religion doesn't explain everything. 226 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: So I have a more humble approach to religion than 227 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 2: many people who believe in science have for science. I 228 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 2: don't believe religion can explain everything. There is no religious 229 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: person I know who does. You're going to find how 230 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 2: to how to uh, how to make a carburetor in Leviticus. 231 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 2: I mean, come on, we all know that religion has 232 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 2: answers for X, Y, and Z. It gives me values, 233 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 2: it gives me an explanation for the origins of the universe. 234 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 2: It gives me much, but it doesn't. It doesn't tell 235 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 2: me science, and science has its limitations. I wish people 236 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 2: who believed in science were as humble as people who 237 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 2: believe in God. And that's pretty ironic because they think 238 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 2: that they're really arrogant to the people who believe in God. 239 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 2: All right, e one eighth Praeger seven seven six. A 240 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: deep thank you to John, and I know that he 241 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 2: wanted to say a lot more. Rabbi David in Milwaukee. 242 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 2: Rabbi David, thank you for calling. 243 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 4: Thank you, Dennis. I'm calling to agree with you this time. 244 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 4: I wanted to say that often when I discussed this 245 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 4: idea with people about materialism creating itself, the material world 246 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 4: creating itself, I just asked him the simple question, which 247 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 4: highlights the paradox and the absurded by saying, when exactly 248 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 4: did it create itself? Did it create itself before it existed? 249 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 4: Wasn't How was it able to create itself if it 250 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 4: didn't exist yet? Or did it create itself after exist 251 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 4: it existed, in which case it obviously didn't need itself 252 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 4: to create itself. 253 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 2: Yes, right, exactly. That's that's a very good way of 254 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 2: putting it. I appreciate it a lot. I'd like to 255 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 2: hear from you. By the way, you tell me where 256 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 2: you don't agree with me, and I that's right. Wall 257 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 2: you know, did it happen before it? If it happened 258 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 2: before it existed, then what created it. It's a good 259 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 2: way of putting it exactly. I appreciate it. We go 260 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 2: to Dmitri in San Francisco, California. Dmitri Dennis Prager High. 261 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 5: I do believe in the creation theory, but I do 262 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 5: have a problem comprehending things like all this eternity infinity. 263 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 2: Dmitri, Welcome to the human race. There is no hu. 264 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 2: There is no human, certainly myself included, who understands the 265 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 2: word always. 266 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 5: Oh, by the way, your cold screener said that she 267 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 5: doesn't have a problem of understanding that. It was funny. 268 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 2: Did you speak to her in Russian? Yeah? I say, 269 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 2: did you speak to her in Russian? No? 270 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 5: Ah? 271 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 2: You should have asked her to pudny maas sigda, sigda, 272 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 2: that's what you should have said. 273 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 5: Something that drives me totally crazy. When I think about it. 274 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 2: I agree it does you. You are so right to 275 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 2: meetre It does drive you crazy. And you know what else, 276 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 2: though here is I wonder if you've thought this one 277 00:18:54,560 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 2: always drives you crazy, but a but a beginning also 278 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 2: drives you crazy exactly, So that is this is perfect example, 279 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 2: dear listeners. This is a perfect example of why I 280 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 2: know our intellect cannot perceive so much. We don't understand 281 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 2: the idea that, uh uh, that anything was always there, 282 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 2: And we don't understand the idea that something began because 283 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 2: what happened the day before it began? Well, you say, 284 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 2: but time is relative and there was nothing before time, 285 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 2: and you I understand. I can say those words too, 286 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 2: but neither you nor I understand them. That's how limited 287 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 2: our minds are. And we need to know that. You're 288 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 2: listening to the Ultimate Issues Hour on the Dennis Prager Show. 289 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this. 290 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom. 291 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 2: All righty, my friends, you're listening to the Dennis Prager Show, 292 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 2: and our each week devoted to the ultimate issues of life, 293 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 2: and it's called the Ultimate Issues Hour one eight Praguer 294 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 2: seven seven six. This one happens to be about God. 295 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 2: There they vary in topic. Sometimes they are of a 296 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 2: religious variety and most of the time or not. But 297 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 2: this is a big one because it has to do 298 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 2: with the greatest question in life, and it really is 299 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 2: the greatest question, whether there is a God or not? Allenly, 300 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 2: we should put that even as a subject. Why the 301 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 2: single most important question in life is whether there is 302 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 2: a God? Yeah, put that down as an ultimate issues 303 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 2: our topic, because whether you believe in God or not. 304 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 2: What I would do with that is attempt to convince 305 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 2: you that that's the most important question. But right now 306 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 2: I'm attempting to convince you that the typical response to 307 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 2: the argument for God that hey, where did everything come from? 308 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 2: Who made everything? The typical response is well, who made God? 309 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 2: Is a meaningless response. Ay, it doesn't respond to the argument. 310 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 2: It just asks a question. So there's no response. It's 311 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 2: just an attempt to dismiss the questioner and be it 312 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 2: doesn't make sense. God wasn't made the God we're talking about, 313 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 2: the creator. God was not a God who was made. 314 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 2: It is the God who was the maker. And I 315 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 2: can if God was made God, isn't God simple as 316 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 2: simple as that? In fact, do you know that God's name, 317 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 2: God's name the God that the Judeo Christian world believes 318 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 2: in that that name, which is said in English as Yahweh, 319 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 2: that name means being. That's all it means. It means 320 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 2: God's name. Did you know. I'm sure most of you, 321 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 2: even biblically aware, do not know that that God's name 322 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 2: is is not sure it for is he or isidore? 323 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 2: But is just is. That's why when asked who are 324 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 2: you by Moses at the Burning Bush, and God said 325 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 2: I will be what I will be, or I am 326 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 2: what I am, both translations ir accurate because Hebrew does 327 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 2: not have a present tense for the verb to be. 328 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 2: Many languages don't, as it happens, Slavic languages don't. Semitic 329 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 2: languages don't. And so God is and was and will be. 330 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 2: But that's not true for matter. Matter came about, and 331 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 2: so the question is who made it come about or 332 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 2: what Matt Matt in Sacramento, California, Dennis Prager, thank you 333 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 2: for calling, Matt. 334 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 6: Hi, Dennis, thanks for taking my call. I have come 335 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 6: to understand that most people, when they speak about the 336 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 6: existence of anything, they usually use the phrase everything has 337 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 6: a call. I think science normally attributes that every effect 338 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 6: has a cause God is not an effect. He has 339 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 6: always eternally existed, and therefore, I think when we try 340 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 6: to attribute a cause to God, we fall apart because 341 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 6: we feel that most important word of effect. 342 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 2: What are your thoughts, Yeah, that's a very fine point, 343 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 2: when when everything has a cause, everything has a cause, 344 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 2: but God's not a thing. Correct. 345 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,479 Speaker 6: There's one other phrase I commonly use in talking with 346 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 6: people about this. If ever, there was a time when 347 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 6: nothing existed, nothing would exist today, and that just gives 348 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 6: more evidence to the eternality of God. 349 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 2: Right, that's yeah, well, that's right. It's another excellent way, Matt, 350 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 2: thank you. It's another excellent way of saying that nothing 351 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,640 Speaker 2: doesn't become something, I mean, does it. I'm asking those 352 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 2: you see, I'm asking those of you who are atheists 353 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 2: to acknowledge that I have to acknowledge difficulties in belief 354 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 2: in God, the existence of such immense amount of injustice 355 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 2: in the world and natural suffering. I acknowledge challenges, but 356 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 2: I never meet atheists who acknowledge challenges. And isn't this 357 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 2: a big one? G Nothing comes from nothing, So where 358 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 2: did something come from? Where did the material world that 359 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 2: we have come from? And certainly where did consciousness come 360 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 2: from that. I am speaking to you now that I 361 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,479 Speaker 2: am aware of being Dennis, and you are aware of 362 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 2: being you. Where did that come from? And the idea 363 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 2: that it just came about you don't recoil in some way. 364 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 2: They're just am talking intellectually, not emotionally, just intellectually. That 365 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:08,959 Speaker 2: doesn't seem absurd to you, but it is. It is 366 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 2: absurd in that sense the atheist has to say about matter. 367 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 2: Credo qui absurdimist famous statement of Turtill, I believe because 368 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 2: it is absurd. We'll be back in a moment. You 369 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 2: are listening to the Dennis Prager Show one eighth Prager 370 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 2: seven seven six. 371 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this. 372 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom. 373 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 2: You're listening to the Dennis Prager Show. I thank you 374 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 2: for doing so, and I'm talking to you about a 375 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 2: famous question that is posed to those who believe in 376 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 2: God as the creator of the universe. We who believe 377 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 2: in God offers one of our paramount arguments, the argument 378 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 2: that well, who made everything? And then we get the 379 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 2: responsible who made God? Which again, sorry to repeat it, 380 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 2: but I have to because I have to just set 381 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 2: the agenda each time of all has no, it's no 382 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 2: answer to the question. And secondly, God wasn't made. God 383 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 2: does not matter. Matter is made, God is not. So 384 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: let's go to your calls here and Cleveland, Ohio. Patrick Hye, 385 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 2: thanks for calling. 386 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 7: Good This is I'm actually a very conservative atheist. So 387 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 7: you and I agree on almost everything, right when it 388 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 7: comes to politic. 389 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 2: No, I and I and I frankly I rather have 390 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 2: you around than the the the person who theoretically believes 391 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 2: in God and has the opposite values of me. 392 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 7: I'm with you other one. Well, here, here's the thing. 393 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 7: I think that everything has always existed in one form 394 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 7: or another. You can't create or destroy energy of matter. 395 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 7: You can change it from a liquid to a sound, 396 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 7: a solid to a gas. You know, there's even a 397 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,880 Speaker 7: fourth to one plasma. But you can't create, completely destroy 398 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 7: or create anything. 399 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 2: Right, So you so your being eternal. Well, but that's 400 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 2: not the claim that I think even science makes. Now. 401 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 2: I think they claim that energy itself was made, that 402 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 2: it wasn't always there, and and that is a leap 403 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 2: of faith too, that everything was everything was always there. 404 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 7: Well, I think the difference is that we have solid 405 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 7: concrete proof matter. 406 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 2: We have solid concrete proof that what that matters self, Imus, Wait, 407 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 2: that matter is what I'm sorry, I didn't get the 408 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 2: words that matter is what that matter exists. Of course, 409 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 2: we no matter exist. 410 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 7: Whereas I see no solid concrete proof that God exists. 411 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 2: There is no solid concrete proof that God exists. It's 412 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 2: like asking me to tell you whether that that water 413 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 2: is not wet it is wet. There is no empirical 414 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 2: proof of God's existence. 415 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 7: It just seems to me that all of your beliefs 416 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 7: are relying on men that lived in the desert thousands 417 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 7: of years ago, on schools, and I just don't see 418 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 7: how that holds any credibility. And you're to anyone else's. 419 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 2: Well, the fact that that men wrote it on scrolls 420 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 2: in the desert thousands of years ago is not here 421 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 2: or there. It doesn't make it valid, and it doesn't 422 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 2: make it invalid. Men. I mean, I think you would 423 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 2: agree that if it was written on a scroll thousands 424 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 2: of years ago, love your neighbor as yourself, you would 425 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 2: still hold it's a good idea. Well I agree, Oh no, no, no, well, 426 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 2: well by wait, so the fact it's a non sequitary. 427 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 2: The fact that it's old or was came from the 428 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 2: desert doesn't doesn't mean anything. 429 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 7: Well, they lacked scientificcknowledge. 430 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 2: You're right, So what I don't science? 431 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 7: Well, if you're talking about mail issues, you're right. 432 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 2: No, No, But I'm talking about I'm talking about I'm 433 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 2: talking about an extra science, extra scientific above science. There 434 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 2: was something that is not empirical. You don't you believe 435 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 2: that all the only reality is empirical. I don't empirical 436 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 2: for those who don't know, by the way, empirical means 437 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 2: can be experienced by one of the five senses. And 438 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 2: God can't be smelled, and God can't be felt, and 439 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 2: God can't be heard in terms of the ear hearing 440 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 2: sound waves, and God can't be seen as you see 441 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 2: material a thing, and God can't be tasted. But the 442 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 2: notion that only the empirical exists is what if we 443 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 2: lost all of our senses, would there be no reality? 444 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 2: We would not experience any reality, but it would not 445 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 2: deny that there is reality. So the God is trans empirical. Now, 446 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 2: I have many, many other arguments for God's existence, but 447 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 2: I am narrow focusing on the one question. And it's 448 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 2: a pleasure to talk to you, Patrick, and I thank 449 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 2: you for your call on this hour of the Ultimate 450 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 2: Issues Hour. I'm focusing on one specific reaction or or 451 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 2: so called argument against those of us who believe in 452 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 2: a creator God, and that is well, who made God? 453 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 2: It is not an argument, that's what that's that's the 454 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 2: point that I am making here. All right, and let's 455 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 2: go to Graham in Roanoke, California. Graham Dennis Praeger, Thank you, hey. 456 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 8: Mister Prager. I just wanted to introduce the concept that 457 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 8: virtual matter, virtual sabatomic particles can instantaneously appear in disappear 458 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 8: out of nowhere. 459 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 2: Well, what do you mean by virtual Well. 460 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 8: Real matter, the virtual that it disappears as quick as 461 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 8: it appears within the vacuum of space. 462 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 2: Right, But no, but it's not held that those things 463 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 2: existed prior to the Big Bang. The scientific community today 464 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 2: is is close to the universally accepting of a big bang, 465 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 2: which means that all matter came into being at a 466 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 2: given moment, at one trillionth of a second in time. 467 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 8: Well, now, I mean supposedly that could have propagated from 468 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 8: these instantaneous virtual sabatomic particles. 469 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 2: No, but nobody offers that because that means that matter 470 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 2: existed prior to the Big Bang. The fact that they 471 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 2: disappeared doesn't mean that they're not matter. 472 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 8: Yeah, that's true, And I'm not making an argument against 473 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 8: the creator God. I think God can dictate science, and 474 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 8: I think science and God can coexist in relative harmony. 475 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, not only coexist, I think that they mutually reinforce. 476 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 2: That's my view. I think that the study of science 477 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 2: leads one to God. Obviously it doesn't lead everybody, but 478 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 2: I'll tell you this. The fact that science arose as 479 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 2: we understand science and the scientific method only arose in 480 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 2: what we called Judeo Christian world is something to think about. 481 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 2: Many many writers, including non religious ones, have noted that 482 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 2: it was that God was a necessity for the for 483 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 2: the development of science as we have it, the one 484 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 2: God ushered in by the Old Testament, carried forth by 485 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 2: the New that God made science possible because it meant 486 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 2: that there was order to the universe. You could study 487 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 2: thunder because there were laws that made thunder. There was 488 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 2: no god of thunder who made thunder. It's a big deal. 489 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 2: Final segment of this Ultimate Issues Hour coming up. Welcome 490 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 2: your calls. Eight seven seven two four to three, triple 491 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 2: seven six Dennis Prager. I'm Dennis Praguer, final segment of 492 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 2: this edition of the Ultimate Issues Hour, and I have 493 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 2: tempted to explain to you why the answer to the 494 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 2: absolutely powerful argument for God's existence, well, where did everything 495 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 2: come from? Who made everything? The answer given, well, who 496 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 2: made God? Is meaningless. It's a meaningless answer. The honest 497 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 2: atheist would have to say this. Look, I am baffled 498 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 2: by the notion that matter came from nothing. It doesn't 499 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 2: make any sense to me. But for whatever reason, I 500 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 2: just can't believe that there is some supreme being or 501 00:33:54,160 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 2: higher intelligence than made it. Okay, I can accept that, 502 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 2: But then I think that that your argument against God 503 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 2: is more psychological and or emotional, and I'm not putting 504 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 2: it down at all than it is intellectual. And by 505 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 2: the way, there's another possibility, and you could say, well, yes, 506 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,439 Speaker 2: there is a higher being that made everything it is 507 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 2: and conceived to me that everything came about on its own. 508 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 2: Matter doesn't make itself, let alone intelligence make itself. But 509 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 2: then but you could say, all right, that makes sense 510 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 2: to me, But I can't believe that this God you 511 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 2: know knows me or or or cares about me. Okay, 512 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 2: that's an entirely separate question about God. I am arguing 513 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 2: right now for the creator God. Do I believe God 514 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 2: knows you? Yes, I do. I don't know why God 515 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 2: would would would make a world where you know you 516 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 2: but he doesn't know you. It doesn't make any sense 517 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,320 Speaker 2: to me. I will make human beings conscious of themselves, 518 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 2: but I am not conscious of them. Okay, it's possible, 519 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 2: and you know it's possible. I don't know for any 520 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 2: of these things as proofs. Incidentally, there are arguments for 521 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 2: God's existence, not proofs. There are proofs for the existence 522 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 2: of matter. God has not material, and so I ask 523 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,879 Speaker 2: that you forgive me Jerry and Joe and Bruce and 524 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 2: Tom because the time is just about out. Joe wants 525 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 2: to say that atheists believe in God, they just define 526 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 2: God as the universe. Well, I don't want to make 527 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 2: atheists sounding what they what they're not. I'll honor them. 528 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 2: They don't believe in the God that I believe, so 529 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 2: so they don't believe in God. God is more complex 530 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 2: than matter, so idea that God made matter doesn't make sense. Hmm, Well, 531 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 2: I would have needed more time Jerry to quite understand 532 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 2: that because God is more complex than matter, therefore he 533 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,839 Speaker 2: wouldn't make it. Well, he for whatever reason he made 534 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 2: this universe, and by the way, I don't know the reason, 535 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 2: I mean I have well, we'll deal with that another time, 536 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 2: which is exactly why I have an Ultimate Issues hour. 537 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 2: I hope you've enjoyed it. This is Dennis Prager. 538 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,760 Speaker 1: This has been timeless wisdom with Dennis Prager. Visit dennispraguer 539 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,320 Speaker 1: dot com for thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses, 540 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: and classic radio programs, and to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles.