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Speaker 1: Life Audio.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Out of Zion podcast. I'm Shelley Niese

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Speaker 2: filling in for doctor Susan Michael, and today I have

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Speaker 2: with me Lucas Miles, who is the senior director of

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Speaker 2: TPUSA Faith.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a break and hear a message from one

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Speaker 3: of our sponsors. Welcome to the Israel Answer Series, Connecting

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Speaker 3: Israel the Bible, and you join Susan Michael as she

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Speaker 3: explores timely issues and current events from a scriptural perspective

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Speaker 3: to equip the Christian world with a balance and biblical response.

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Speaker 3: Be sure to subscribe for future episodes which will ignite

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Speaker 3: your faith and bring the Bible to life in your

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Speaker 3: everyday world. Now, let's join Susan with your Israel answers.

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Speaker 2: So first, Lucas, can you just tell us what that is?

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Speaker 2: How is it When we think of Turning Point USA,

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Speaker 2: we think of it as a faith based organization.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, well the deal and I think this is

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Speaker 1: where maybe there's probably some of the biggest misunderstanding so

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Speaker 1: Turning Point USA. Let me back up further than that.

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Speaker 1: Within the Turning Point ecosystem, we have multiple organizations and

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Speaker 1: so we have Turning Point Action, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: they're the ones that are going out there and chasing

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Speaker 1: the votes and and really, you know, we're so influential

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Speaker 1: on the campaign in twenty twenty four and really deserve

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Speaker 1: a lot of the credit I think for you know,

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Speaker 1: Strong Victory. That's a five o one C four organization,

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Speaker 1: so it's able to operate politically and make endorsements and

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Speaker 1: do all the things that it does.

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Speaker 2: There.

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Speaker 1: Then we have also what we know as Turning Point USA,

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Speaker 1: and that is probably what people are most familiar with

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Speaker 1: our campus tour, seeing Charlie out there with the microphone. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: what he was doing the day that he was assassinated

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Speaker 1: was on campus there in Utah, you know, doing what

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Speaker 1: he loved, and that was taking questions from students, doing

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Speaker 1: one of these proved me wrong, Ask Me anything type

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Speaker 1: of events, and and you know, so that has been

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Speaker 1: a big part of the bread and butter of Turning

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Speaker 1: Point USA. We have our college chapters, our high school

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Speaker 1: chapters with caub America. We also have what is known

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Speaker 1: as tposa faith which is part of that broader five

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Speaker 1: oh one C three. So this is the cultural arm

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Speaker 1: of Turning Point and it is our exclusively, unapologetically faith

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Speaker 1: arm and so Turning Point in USA as a whole

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Speaker 1: is actually a secular nonprofit. So sometimes people will see

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Speaker 1: speakers that go, hey, that person is not a Christian.

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Speaker 1: And it's intended to be very big tent, and so

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Speaker 1: the work that we do within Turning Point USA as

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Speaker 1: a whole is big tent. Think of it as a

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Speaker 1: wide mouth of the funnel. But Charlie was a strong

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Speaker 1: believer that you know, he wanted to help lead people

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Speaker 1: to what he believed was the ultimate truth. And that's

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Speaker 1: really where my job comes in and my teen's job

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Speaker 1: comes in at tposa faith that we are very focused

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Speaker 1: on supporting the local church across America of promoting exclusively

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Speaker 1: Christian content promoter or platforming exclusively Christian speakers that have

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Speaker 1: an orthodox framework to be able to share the good

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Speaker 1: news of the Gospel. And so we are we exist

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Speaker 1: to help unite the church around primary doctrine, to eradicate

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Speaker 1: wocism from the American Church, and we really want to

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Speaker 1: be that trusted voice within Christianity that people can look

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Speaker 1: to and and count on great resources and support, and

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Speaker 1: virtually everything we do for the church is free of charge. Wow.

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Speaker 2: Well, so at ICEJA we're Israel Israel focused ministry, and

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Speaker 2: I get these questions sometimes and so I just want

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Speaker 2: you to provide clarification that Charlie Kirk was a pro

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Speaker 2: Israel advocate. So can you just say that out loud

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Speaker 2: and just explain just his background.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this, look.

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Speaker 1: I get this a lot, and I think that you know,

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Speaker 1: without a doubt, I think Charlie's words speak for themselves.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Charlie was a very outspoken advocate for Israel,

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Speaker 1: and I think the best way to think about how

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Speaker 1: Charlie viewed a problem like this, And again, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to overly define this, so this is kind of

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Speaker 1: my words of trying to understand, you know, his voice

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Speaker 1: in the space. But I think that you have to

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Speaker 1: think about a relationship with with Israel in three different ways.

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Speaker 1: And so first of all, we want to understand it theologically,

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Speaker 1: we want to understand it morally, and we also want

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Speaker 1: to understand it practically. And so I think there's room

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Speaker 1: for conversation within each of those buckets. And not everybody's

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Speaker 1: gonna have the same theological viewpoints. So you're gonna have

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Speaker 1: some people that I mean, we work with ten thousand churches,

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Speaker 1: so we have pastors that are strong dispensationalists. They believe that,

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Speaker 1: you know, Jesus literally returns in Israel, that that is,

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Speaker 1: you know, the way that we read this in the

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Speaker 1: Book of Revelation, that happens just like it says there.

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Speaker 1: And then we have pastors that hold to more of

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Speaker 1: something closer what would be defined as replacement theology, but

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Speaker 1: that they take the perspective of that there's symbolic language

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Speaker 1: in here, and there's a symbolic Israel, and they're kind

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Speaker 1: of navigating this conversation. We can have that debate, but

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Speaker 1: if it goes into anti Semitism, Charlie would regularly say

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Speaker 1: that this is demonic, this is wrong. He would he

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Speaker 1: would stand up very strongly against that. And if it

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Speaker 1: goes into something of what I would describe as dual

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Speaker 1: covenantism on the other side of the dispensational side, that

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Speaker 1: there's another way to Jesus or another way to God

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Speaker 1: besides Jesus Christ, I think that that's also heresy. And

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Speaker 1: so there's a theological spectrum on the moral side. Without

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Speaker 1: a doubt, Israel was one of the Charlie is one

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Speaker 1: of the strongest defenders that Israel has a right to

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Speaker 1: defend itself and so we can talk about those moral

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Speaker 1: arguments that exist and make a case. And so Charlie

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Speaker 1: would always say, do you want me to defend Israel

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Speaker 1: without using theological standpoints? I can do it morally and

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Speaker 1: I could do it practically. And practically of course, we

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Speaker 1: think of things like if we want if we want

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Speaker 1: to see the Middle East protected from riising Islamisis control,

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Speaker 1: we want to see America protected from raises Ilamasist control,

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Speaker 1: then we need a strong ally in Israel, and we

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Speaker 1: need a strong Israel that does have protections for itself,

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Speaker 1: because if Israel falters in that regard, it's going to

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Speaker 1: affect all of us in that way. And so it's

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Speaker 1: a complex issue. But the short answer is Charlie was

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Speaker 1: an advocate for Israel. His new books Stopping the Name

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Speaker 1: of God, you know, really demonstrates the impact that you know,

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Speaker 1: just the the Old Testament, a lot of the teachings

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Speaker 1: of God's Law had on him. And I think that

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Speaker 1: his words speak.

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Speaker 2: For himselves, so does tpia USA faiths. As you march forward,

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Speaker 2: how do you make sure that you keep reflecting your

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Speaker 2: founder and his values as well?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so the question I probably got the most. And

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Speaker 1: I've done hundreds of interviews since Charlie was killed. I've

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Speaker 1: kind of lost track of them, honestly, and I miss

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Speaker 1: him dearly. I wish that I wish I was just

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Speaker 1: watching him do all of these and I used to

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Speaker 1: do more of that and during this time. You know,

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Speaker 1: probably the question that I got asked the most early

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Speaker 1: on is you know, what are you guys going to

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Speaker 1: do without your founder? And my, my, you know, first

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Speaker 1: response to that is, We're not without our founder. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Charlie's not here physically, but he imprinted his ideological DNA,

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Speaker 1: his vision, his message on every single member of our organization.

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Speaker 1: And we understand what the marching orders are. There is

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Speaker 1: more resolve now at turning point and tposa faith and

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Speaker 1: turning point action than ever before. We understand what time

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Speaker 1: it is more than ever. We lost our friend, we

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Speaker 1: lost you know, Erica's husband, we lost a brother, we

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Speaker 1: lost you know, our visionary founder. We understand what time

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Speaker 1: it is. We understand what's at stake more than anybody else.

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Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, we are committed to

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Speaker 1: fully fulfilling the mission that Charlie laid out for us.

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Speaker 1: And you know, for tpsa faith that is to eradicate wokeism,

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Speaker 1: and it's to get pastors and churches to wake up,

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Speaker 1: to be bold, to be strong, to breach the full

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Speaker 1: counsel of God's word, and to equip people how to

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Speaker 1: think biblically when it comes to the boardroom, the bedroom,

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Speaker 1: and the ballot box, and and those are that that

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Speaker 1: mission has not changed. So obviously, anytime you're in a position

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Speaker 1: like this, over time, there's always a fear of mission drift.

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Speaker 1: And so we're we're very, very intimately, you know, alert

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Speaker 1: on that and aware of that, and we come back

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Speaker 1: to regularly within the organization of how would Charlie think

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Speaker 1: about that?

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Speaker 3: What would he do?

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Speaker 1: And that's really helping to guide us, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think as we move forward and really seek the Lord

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Speaker 1: for you know, the best steps you know is the

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Speaker 1: days to come.

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Speaker 2: So with Charlie's death, I mean with that targeted assassination,

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Speaker 2: we also have seen a revival among you York and

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Speaker 2: so how how are you experiencing that? Just from the

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Speaker 2: leadership side of tv USA, how are you how are

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Speaker 2: you fostering their revival to conten uere.

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Speaker 1: So And I would say it's not just a revival

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Speaker 1: among youth. It's really a revival among all ages. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we've seen people that are in their sixties and seventies

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Speaker 1: that have, you know, said hey, I've been you know,

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Speaker 1: resisting church for my whole life, and I just feel

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Speaker 1: like I have to go buy a Bible and go

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Speaker 1: to a church, you know, after what happened. You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't believe that we can fabricate or create revival.

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Speaker 1: You can do maybe false versions of that we see

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Speaker 1: bought and paid for pagan revivals and things that are

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Speaker 1: taking place. But I think when it comes to genuine

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Speaker 1: revival activity or awakening activity, I think that that's something

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Speaker 1: that only God can do. Now, what I do believe

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Speaker 1: we can do is we can steward the moment. And

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Speaker 1: so we originally had a plan for an event that

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Speaker 1: we were going to do in twenty twenty six called

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Speaker 1: the Believers Summit. We're going to do it in Middle America,

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Speaker 1: and we were expecting probably four to six thousand people

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Speaker 1: to this. It would have been a large friends, three

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Speaker 1: day event really focused on the Gospel and faith. And

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Speaker 1: we've been planning this actually, you know, before Charlie was

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Speaker 1: killed and he was involved what we were originally going

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Speaker 1: to do in the fall, and Charlie and I actually

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Speaker 1: decided to hold off and we're going to put it

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Speaker 1: into twenty twenty six. And so after he was killed,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of like, Hey, we got to

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Speaker 1: keep this thing going and we got to do this event.

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Speaker 1: And as we started seeing the scope of the momentum

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Speaker 1: and the number of people that have been impacted, we

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Speaker 1: realized that this was way bigger than a single event.

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Speaker 1: And so now what we've done is we've taken this

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Speaker 1: phrase that Charlie and Erica used to stay to each

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Speaker 1: other a lot, which was make Heaven crowded. And we've

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Speaker 1: put together a faith tour with my team at t

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Speaker 1: posa faith across the country. We have thirty stops approximately

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Speaker 1: across the country, and we're going to places like Alaska

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Speaker 1: and Hawaii and Billings, Montana, and Rapid City, South Dakota, Atlanta, Georgia.

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Speaker 1: We'll be in Dallas, Texas, you know, Florida. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're Indiana. We're all over the country and these events,

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Speaker 1: we have three of them under our belt so far.

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Speaker 1: We are getting massive numbers to show up to this

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Speaker 1: and so I know there's a lot of people on life.

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Speaker 1: I know say, oh, Turning Point USA is done. TPSA

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Speaker 1: faith is cooked, you know, and to use gen Z

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Speaker 1: language and I'll tell you what if we're done, don't

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Speaker 1: wake me up. Because we're seeing thousands of thousands of

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Speaker 1: people show up every single day to these events. We

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Speaker 1: did the first one in California at Riverside, California. We

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Speaker 1: had fifty five hundred people show up to this event.

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Speaker 1: We had people watching outside on screens in the basically

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Speaker 1: in the just the outside courtyard of the church because

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Speaker 1: there was no more room in the church for them

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Speaker 1: and we were pushing fire coat. We just did the

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Speaker 1: second event. We had twelve hundred people in a nine

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Speaker 1: hundred seat church. We we just did one here in Nashville.

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Speaker 1: Three thousand people showed up fully packed out house. We'll

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Speaker 1: have one at Prestonwood Baptists April twenty nine. We're expecting

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Speaker 1: ten to twelve thousand people at this event. We have

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Speaker 1: an eight thousand person one in Hawaii. Were working on

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Speaker 1: several thousand persons in Alaska. These are massive, massive events

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Speaker 1: and you know what, every single one, we're seeing people

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Speaker 1: give their lives to the Lord. We had three hundred

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Speaker 1: salvations at the very first one, I'm massimating we could have.

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Speaker 1: We got you know, five to ten thousand plus people

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Speaker 1: that give their life the Lord through these tours, if

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Speaker 1: not more than that. So revival is happening, Awakening is happening,

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Speaker 1: It's here, the work is continuing. We understand what time

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Speaker 1: it is, we understand what the mission is, and we're

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Speaker 1: going to see it through.

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Speaker 2: So in writing this, you know, just super positive momentum

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Speaker 2: and just seeing people at these tender ages that were

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Speaker 2: touched by Charlie, touched by his ministry and recommitting their

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Speaker 2: lives to the Lord. Parallel to that, we it's just

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Speaker 2: something as an Israel related ministry that we're seeing that

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Speaker 2: there's also becoming a very loud anti Semitic voice within

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Speaker 2: the Friends, right, and so how do we address that better?

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Speaker 2: How do we fight it better? We're seeing a crazy

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Speaker 2: high number of young Republican Christians that are listening to

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Speaker 2: these anti Semitic voys, as in being influenced by them.

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Speaker 2: So what can we do? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think a couple things. So first off, you're absolutely right,

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Speaker 1: and we're aware of that. I'm certainly aware of that.

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Speaker 1: I've spoken out about that in a couple of my

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Speaker 1: past books, and you know the concerns that I had

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Speaker 1: for some of the uprising there. I think that, you know, how, somebody,

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Speaker 1: there's a couple issues that really act as like Canary

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Speaker 1: and the coal mine for the conservative movement. I think

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Speaker 1: the abortion issue is one of them. I think that

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Speaker 1: the view of Israel is another one. And again I

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Speaker 1: don't need everybody theologically to hold to a uniform, monolithic perspective.

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Speaker 1: But I think that you know, understanding morally what that

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Speaker 1: position is and understanding practically what that position is from

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Speaker 1: a foreign policy standpoint is really really important. But even

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Speaker 1: in the theological spectrum that's there nowhere in Christianity. Let

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Speaker 1: me just say this very clearly for the viewer. Nowhere

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Speaker 1: in an orthodox Christian theology is there any room for

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Speaker 1: anti Semitism. Nowhere, Even if you hold to the strongest

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Speaker 1: form of replacement theology, there is no reason that should

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Speaker 1: ever turn anti Semitic. You can say, hey, I just

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Speaker 1: don't think that Israel plays a role in time events.

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Speaker 1: That's fine, you can hold that as a Christian. I

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Speaker 1: don't hold that position. It's not my that's not my stance.

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Speaker 1: We have churches that were pastors that lean in that direction,

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Speaker 1: but I would I would caution them, you have to

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Speaker 1: be so careful, so careful that that does not turn

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Speaker 1: into some sort of anti Semitic position on the other

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Speaker 1: side of that, because you know, it is so that

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Speaker 1: that line is so thin, and it's very easy to

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Speaker 1: fall in that position. Paul the Apostle, Paul said that

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Speaker 1: he was willing to trade his salvation for the salvation

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Speaker 1: of his own brothers, the Jewish people, if it were possible.

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Speaker 1: I don't hear the podcasters out there who are taking

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Speaker 1: that position trying to claim that they are holding a

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Speaker 1: Biblical framework, having any sort of of love for humanity

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Speaker 1: in such a way that they would be willing to

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Speaker 1: exchange for one moment their salvation. That is a level

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Speaker 1: of love that Paul exhibits that most people know nothing of.

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Speaker 1: And so I would say that here's the greatest way

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Speaker 1: to combat that. We don't play into the stereotypes, we

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Speaker 1: don't play in the caricatures. We have intelligent conversations. This

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Speaker 1: generation does not. They're not gonna they're not gonna like

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Speaker 1: they're not going to accept somebody just walking in and

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Speaker 1: saying the Bible says the bless Israel, and that's going

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Speaker 1: to solve all their questions. We have to talk about stuff.

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Speaker 1: They have to have be able to ask questions and say,

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Speaker 1: you know, where their church is bombed, why was a mistake?

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Speaker 1: Was it on purpose? Let's talk through it and we

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Speaker 1: can have those conversations. I think what they're going to

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Speaker 1: find from the data is that Israel is doing its

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Speaker 1: best to be able to protect themselves in a way

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Speaker 1: and to be able to do is the least amount

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Speaker 1: of damage to innocent people around them. They're dropping flyers,

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Speaker 1: they're letting people know, they're announcing, hey, you need to

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Speaker 1: get out of this area because we are targeting this

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Speaker 1: everything else. They are, in my vantage point, they are

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of good to try to make sure

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Speaker 1: that they are protect themselves. But when you have every

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Speaker 1: nation around you want to wipe you off the map,

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Speaker 1: you have a moral obligation to protect the people that

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Speaker 1: are inside. And I believe that as the United States,

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Speaker 1: we have a moral obligation to our ally in Israel

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Speaker 1: and to stand strong. I think if we can have

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Speaker 1: more real world conversations like that, again, it might not

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Speaker 1: satisfy all of the all of the you know, people

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Speaker 1: within a higher form of you know, eschatology, but it

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Speaker 1: is going to win more people, and it's going to

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Speaker 1: be more more on. This generation will be more receptive

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Speaker 1: to a conversation at that level.

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Speaker 2: Well, I hope that people are listening to you and

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Speaker 2: to TPUSA and filtering out the outside voices because we

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Speaker 2: really do advocate for you, sharing truth and thank you

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Speaker 2: and changing the hearts and minds of our young people.

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Speaker 2: So thank you Lucas so much for being on show Zion.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Hey, just give me one more minute. I

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Speaker 4: want to offer you one of our free resources. We

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Speaker 4: have wonderful resources in our show notes and if you

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Speaker 4: go to our website at ic EJUSA dot org slash

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Speaker 4: show notes, you'll find links for a number of our

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Speaker 4: free offers. We have downloadables to help root you in scripture,

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Speaker 4: help you to understand the issues surrounding Israel and the

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Speaker 4: importance of be of Christian support for Israel and don't forget.

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Speaker 4: Please follow us on Facebook, YouTube and LinkedIn and stay connected.

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Speaker 4: Thank you and God bless.

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Speaker 3: We hope you have enjoyed this episode of Out of

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Speaker 3: Zion with Susan Michael. Be sure to subscribe to Out

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Speaker 3: of Zion now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, Pray dot Com,

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Speaker 3: Michael is a production of ic EJUSA. All rights reserved.

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