1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,530 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:15,190 --> 00:00:18,210 Speaker 2: You're listening to Everyday Prayers with Million Praying Moms, where 3 00:00:18,270 --> 00:00:20,369 Speaker 2: we help you pray God's word for your families in 4 00:00:20,390 --> 00:00:21,670 Speaker 2: the areas you need it most. 5 00:00:22,170 --> 00:00:24,210 Speaker 1: Here, we believe prayer isn't a last resort. 6 00:00:24,270 --> 00:00:27,230 Speaker 2: It's our first and best response in parenting. It's a 7 00:00:27,250 --> 00:00:30,170 Speaker 2: partnership for the hearts of our children that God invites 8 00:00:30,250 --> 00:00:33,850 Speaker 2: us into. Today, I'm so excited as we're continuing our 9 00:00:33,890 --> 00:00:37,550 Speaker 2: Back to School Conversation series. And I've got two very 10 00:00:37,590 --> 00:00:40,910 Speaker 2: special guests on the podcast today to talk about their 11 00:00:41,150 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 2: new devotional on heartbreak. And as we were kind of 12 00:00:45,300 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 2: preparing for this conversation today, I just kept thinking, that 13 00:00:48,340 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 2: is something that has touched all of us. I think 14 00:00:50,740 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 2: we can all say we've been heartbroken at one point 15 00:00:54,420 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 2: or another in our lives. And even my young children, 16 00:00:56,860 --> 00:01:00,060 Speaker 2: I can confidently say that they've experienced that in their 17 00:01:00,180 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 2: own little way. And so we're going to talk about 18 00:01:02,580 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: what that looks like for us as moms and how 19 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: we can help our children to navigate that as well. 20 00:01:07,670 --> 00:01:09,590 Speaker 2: So I'm so excited to have on the podcast today, 21 00:01:09,690 --> 00:01:11,589 Speaker 2: Karen Eman and Amber Smith. 22 00:01:11,650 --> 00:01:17,340 Speaker 1: Ladies, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Thanks 23 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:18,150 Speaker 1: so much for having us. 24 00:01:18,569 --> 00:01:19,029 Speaker 3: Yeah. 25 00:01:19,090 --> 00:01:21,750 Speaker 2: So why don't we start with a little introduction from 26 00:01:21,890 --> 00:01:23,709 Speaker 2: the two of you, and then you have a third 27 00:01:23,810 --> 00:01:24,630 Speaker 2: author on the. 28 00:01:24,569 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: Book as well. And so tell us a little bit 29 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,390 Speaker 1: about yourself and your new devotional. Amber, why don't you 30 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: start for us? Okay, I'll go first. 31 00:01:32,060 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 4: My name is Amber Smith. I've been married to my husband, Granger. 32 00:01:35,220 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 4: We're going on 17 years. We have four incredible children together. 33 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,860 Speaker 4: Speaking of Million Praying Moms, I just dropped my little 34 00:01:41,900 --> 00:01:43,980 Speaker 4: one off at pre-K this morning, and it was not 35 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,690 Speaker 4: a good day. He cried a lot and just prayed 36 00:01:47,710 --> 00:01:50,070 Speaker 4: with him and just let him know that we pray. 37 00:01:50,370 --> 00:01:51,910 Speaker 4: When I am afraid, I put my trust in you, 38 00:01:51,930 --> 00:01:54,889 Speaker 4: Psalm 56.3. So just praying those things over him this morning. 39 00:01:55,190 --> 00:01:57,490 Speaker 4: I also have a high schooler and a middle schooler, 40 00:01:57,930 --> 00:02:00,870 Speaker 4: and I have a three-year-old, forever three-year-old who lives with 41 00:02:00,890 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 4: Jesus now. And the Lord has completely upended our life 42 00:02:05,020 --> 00:02:08,780 Speaker 4: and rebuilt it by His grace. And so that's why 43 00:02:09,020 --> 00:02:10,980 Speaker 4: I am honored to be a part of this devotional 44 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,100 Speaker 4: with Karen and Ruth. And we're hoping that we can 45 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,339 Speaker 4: bring this to people to bring them hope and walk alongside. 46 00:02:16,900 --> 00:02:19,010 Speaker 1: Them in the heartache. And I'll let Karen share a 47 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,620 Speaker 1: little bit more about that. Yeah, thanks, Amber. So I'm 48 00:02:22,660 --> 00:02:23,340 Speaker 1: Karen Eman. 49 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,490 Speaker 3: I'm married to my college sweetheart, Todd, and together we 50 00:02:26,530 --> 00:02:29,910 Speaker 3: have three adult children, so we're empty nesters. And two 51 00:02:29,950 --> 00:02:32,060 Speaker 3: of them are married, so we have two bonus children 52 00:02:32,220 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 3: by marriage, although I forget which are which. 53 00:02:34,260 --> 00:02:35,899 Speaker 1: I just like to say now I have five kids. 54 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 1: That's great. 55 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 3: And those two new ones, they've never given me an 56 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,020 Speaker 3: ounce of trouble, so maybe they're my favorites. 57 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,790 Speaker 1: I don't know. And then we also recently became grandparents 58 00:02:45,030 --> 00:02:47,250 Speaker 1: not too long ago. We have a four-year-old grandson named 59 00:02:47,290 --> 00:02:51,910 Speaker 1: Jasper Ridge and a brand-new grandbaby girl named Maggie Rose. 60 00:02:52,550 --> 00:02:52,750 Speaker 2: Oh, sweet. 61 00:02:52,850 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: And my grief portion of. 62 00:02:57,950 --> 00:03:01,500 Speaker 3: The story of the three of us writing this book is, well, 63 00:03:02,380 --> 00:03:04,780 Speaker 3: Amber just mentioned, you know, they have a three-year-old forever 64 00:03:05,340 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 3: son who lives in heaven. 65 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,140 Speaker 1: She lost a child. Our co-author, Ruth, lost a spouse. 66 00:03:09,980 --> 00:03:12,900 Speaker 3: I lost 11 members of my family within a three-year 67 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,179 Speaker 3: period just when I moved to be closer to all 68 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,340 Speaker 3: the grandparents who were still alive, the four grandparents. From 69 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,780 Speaker 3: January of 19 until January of 22, I lost all 70 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,180 Speaker 3: four parents. So my kids lost all their grandparents. And 71 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,419 Speaker 3: three uncles, two aunts, a cousin, and one of my 72 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,820 Speaker 3: son's childhood best friends, all were gone within three years. 73 00:03:35,100 --> 00:03:38,790 Speaker 3: And also, that new grandbaby, who's now four, who had 74 00:03:38,830 --> 00:03:40,870 Speaker 3: just been born, I thought, well, at least I've got them. 75 00:03:40,910 --> 00:03:41,550 Speaker 1: They live nearby. 76 00:03:41,570 --> 00:03:43,990 Speaker 3: My other two kids live far, far away, like 12 77 00:03:43,990 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 3: and 21-hour drives. Well, that family decided to move to 78 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:48,940 Speaker 3: Tennessee 12 hours from me. 79 00:03:49,100 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: So I lost... Everybody, nobody needed me anymore. 80 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:57,089 Speaker 3: And that brought about a lot of grief in my life. 81 00:03:57,670 --> 00:04:00,850 Speaker 3: And yet between Amber, Ruth and I, we saw God 82 00:04:00,890 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 3: meet us and we decided to share the things that 83 00:04:03,690 --> 00:04:05,450 Speaker 3: we've learned on our grief journeys with us. 84 00:04:07,490 --> 00:04:11,100 Speaker 2: I love that story, encouragement born out of your own 85 00:04:11,380 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 2: personal story. That's often, you know, our strongest testimonies. And 86 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,460 Speaker 2: I love that kind of each of each of your 87 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 2: stories and approaches to griefer from maybe a different place 88 00:04:21,020 --> 00:04:24,219 Speaker 2: or a different type of loss, because that really meets 89 00:04:25,140 --> 00:04:28,410 Speaker 2: the reader where they are in what they are. 90 00:04:28,589 --> 00:04:29,810 Speaker 1: They are walking through grief. 91 00:04:31,580 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 2: So I think this morning, let's kind of begin by 92 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:39,790 Speaker 2: just talking about this heartbreak that we go through. 93 00:04:39,810 --> 00:04:43,349 Speaker 1: I think so often we can be fed. 94 00:04:43,150 --> 00:04:46,110 Speaker 2: An understanding or even just like deep down, we have 95 00:04:46,150 --> 00:04:50,820 Speaker 2: this subconscious belief that when we're walking with Jesus, things 96 00:04:50,900 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 2: are going to go wrong. the way that we want 97 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 2: them to go or that they're going to end up positively, right? 98 00:04:58,700 --> 00:05:00,900 Speaker 2: Here we talk a lot about prayer on the Everyday 99 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,780 Speaker 2: Prayers podcast. We believe prayer actually works and that when 100 00:05:03,820 --> 00:05:06,540 Speaker 2: we pray, it can move the heart of God. But 101 00:05:06,580 --> 00:05:09,910 Speaker 2: I think people get really hung up When they've prayed 102 00:05:09,970 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 2: about something and it doesn't go the way that they 103 00:05:13,750 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 2: asked for it to go or that they wanted it 104 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 2: to go, and then that begins to cause doubts around 105 00:05:21,900 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: the goodness of God and our trust in Him. And 106 00:05:25,300 --> 00:05:27,490 Speaker 2: so I know that you guys had to walk through 107 00:05:27,690 --> 00:05:32,930 Speaker 2: that in your experience. And I just wonder, as we 108 00:05:32,950 --> 00:05:36,770 Speaker 2: think about heartbreak, how do we approach heartbreak as followers 109 00:05:36,810 --> 00:05:37,210 Speaker 2: of Christ? 110 00:05:39,700 --> 00:05:41,140 Speaker 1: I think when I think. 111 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,940 Speaker 3: About the disappointment that comes from praying and things don't 112 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 3: go your way, I like to think of it, Nicolette, 113 00:05:48,180 --> 00:05:50,260 Speaker 3: you know, I think your audience will relate to this. 114 00:05:50,339 --> 00:05:52,380 Speaker 1: It's like when our kids ask us for something, right? 115 00:05:52,580 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 3: We can say yes, we can say no, or we 116 00:05:54,779 --> 00:05:58,020 Speaker 3: can say not right now. And those are all answers. 117 00:05:58,300 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 3: So sometimes I feel like we say, well, God didn't 118 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 3: answer my prayer. Well, what we mean is God didn't 119 00:06:02,580 --> 00:06:05,510 Speaker 3: give me a yes, but he did answer us. He 120 00:06:05,570 --> 00:06:08,330 Speaker 3: said no, or he said no. the hardest for me 121 00:06:08,350 --> 00:06:11,140 Speaker 3: not right now like I do I do okay with 122 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,460 Speaker 3: the yeses yay I got my way I even do 123 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 3: okay with the no's it's the not right now that 124 00:06:15,820 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 3: sometimes gets me but I think that's how you approach 125 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,430 Speaker 3: heartbreak knowing that God is answering it just might not 126 00:06:22,470 --> 00:06:23,789 Speaker 3: be the answer we're hoping for. 127 00:06:23,670 --> 00:06:28,420 Speaker 2: That's a really good example Amber what would you add Yeah, 128 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 2: I was just going to say, you know, so often 129 00:06:30,339 --> 00:06:32,220 Speaker 2: you've already touched on all of us are going to 130 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,620 Speaker 2: suffer in this fallen world because it's not the way 131 00:06:34,660 --> 00:06:36,020 Speaker 2: that God intended the world to be. 132 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,100 Speaker 4: And there is brokenness and there is sin and there 133 00:06:38,140 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 4: is pain and there are trials. And going through our 134 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,870 Speaker 4: own personal loss when our youngest son, River, drowned in 135 00:06:44,910 --> 00:06:48,010 Speaker 4: our backyard. And we prayed so hard for the Lord 136 00:06:48,529 --> 00:06:50,850 Speaker 4: to save him, to bring him back to us, to 137 00:06:50,910 --> 00:06:52,810 Speaker 4: do what only he could do. And we thought, you know, 138 00:06:52,830 --> 00:06:55,950 Speaker 4: this is going to be such a miracle because they 139 00:06:55,990 --> 00:06:57,010 Speaker 4: got his heartbeat back. 140 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,340 Speaker 1: And so we thought he was going to be okay. 141 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 4: So we prayed for those couple of days in the 142 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,940 Speaker 4: hospital and God didn't answer the way that we hoped. 143 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,540 Speaker 4: He didn't let him come back to us. So that 144 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,929 Speaker 4: really began our search of, I was a brand new Christian. 145 00:07:09,950 --> 00:07:12,370 Speaker 4: So that really began my search of who is this 146 00:07:12,410 --> 00:07:15,170 Speaker 4: God that I prayed to and why didn't he answer 147 00:07:15,210 --> 00:07:17,350 Speaker 4: in the way that I hoped? And it brought me into, 148 00:07:17,530 --> 00:07:19,790 Speaker 4: as we talk about in the book, Suffering can take 149 00:07:19,810 --> 00:07:21,390 Speaker 4: you to a really sacred, holy place. 150 00:07:21,790 --> 00:07:23,950 Speaker 1: Because for me, anyway, it brought me to the end 151 00:07:23,990 --> 00:07:25,810 Speaker 1: of myself. It emptied me of. 152 00:07:25,890 --> 00:07:28,370 Speaker 4: Everything I thought I knew to where I could be 153 00:07:28,410 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 4: in a position where God could fill me with himself. 154 00:07:30,500 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 4: And then I learned that God doesn't always answer in 155 00:07:33,140 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 4: the way that we hoped. But as Karen said, he 156 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 4: is answering. He's either saying yes, no, or not yet. 157 00:07:38,900 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 4: But ultimately, he's going to make all things new and 158 00:07:41,740 --> 00:07:44,100 Speaker 4: he's going to make all things good. But it was 159 00:07:44,140 --> 00:07:47,350 Speaker 4: this journey of why didn't he answer my prayer, but 160 00:07:47,370 --> 00:07:50,220 Speaker 4: he'll answer somebody else's prayer. And we think that he's 161 00:07:50,260 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 4: answering somebody else's prayer in the way that we had hoped. 162 00:07:52,140 --> 00:07:56,420 Speaker 4: So it just brought me to this need for understanding 163 00:07:56,460 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 4: who he truly is and coming to know Jesus as 164 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:00,500 Speaker 4: he reveals himself in the Bible. 165 00:08:01,660 --> 00:08:03,140 Speaker 1: That's so powerful. 166 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,340 Speaker 2: I think that not yet is those seasons of waiting 167 00:08:07,380 --> 00:08:13,030 Speaker 2: that can really cause us to have questions or doubts 168 00:08:13,250 --> 00:08:15,870 Speaker 2: around that. And it can sometimes keep us from praying. 169 00:08:16,690 --> 00:08:17,370 Speaker 1: How did you guys. 170 00:08:18,230 --> 00:08:20,930 Speaker 2: In your midst of heartbreak, how do you continue to 171 00:08:20,990 --> 00:08:22,770 Speaker 2: connect with God in prayer? 172 00:08:22,790 --> 00:08:27,180 Speaker 1: Amber, why don't you answer? I feel like for me, 173 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,780 Speaker 1: I didn't have any other choice. 174 00:08:30,100 --> 00:08:32,220 Speaker 4: I was so broken and so lost and I knew 175 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,270 Speaker 4: I needed light and I needed hope and I couldn't 176 00:08:35,330 --> 00:08:37,110 Speaker 4: stay in that dark place forever because I had a 177 00:08:37,150 --> 00:08:39,010 Speaker 4: husband and I had two other children who needed me. 178 00:08:39,790 --> 00:08:42,950 Speaker 1: And so it was like I had to surrender. 179 00:08:42,970 --> 00:08:44,859 Speaker 4: I had to fall on my knees and I had 180 00:08:44,900 --> 00:08:47,500 Speaker 4: to cry out to this God that I didn't quite know. 181 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,939 Speaker 4: And I had to seek who He was. And prayer, 182 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 4: I will tell you, suffering, there was so much... intimacy 183 00:08:55,980 --> 00:08:58,329 Speaker 4: in that time of my pain because God is truly 184 00:08:58,380 --> 00:09:00,609 Speaker 4: so close to the brokenhearted. And there was such an 185 00:09:00,670 --> 00:09:02,850 Speaker 4: intimacy with him within me, wrestling with the Lord and 186 00:09:02,950 --> 00:09:05,830 Speaker 4: asking him these questions and lamenting to him and crying 187 00:09:05,890 --> 00:09:09,110 Speaker 4: out to him that that prayer helped to shape me. 188 00:09:09,170 --> 00:09:12,250 Speaker 4: That conversation with the Lord helped to shape me and 189 00:09:12,340 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 4: made me realize my frailty and my need for him. 190 00:09:15,900 --> 00:09:19,300 Speaker 4: And so it was just a constant need of needing 191 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,780 Speaker 4: to lay and surrender on my bathroom floor and pray 192 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:22,780 Speaker 4: and cry out to God. 193 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: Karen, what about you in that season of losing so 194 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,610 Speaker 2: many loved ones? How did you pray in that time 195 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:33,190 Speaker 2: of just grief and loss? 196 00:09:34,450 --> 00:09:35,750 Speaker 1: Sometimes without words. 197 00:09:36,110 --> 00:09:38,750 Speaker 3: Sometimes I would just go to the back of my 198 00:09:38,830 --> 00:09:41,890 Speaker 3: property where I've got this little fire pit in a 199 00:09:42,170 --> 00:09:44,569 Speaker 3: little clump of woods, and I would just sit there 200 00:09:44,590 --> 00:09:44,930 Speaker 3: and cry. 201 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,420 Speaker 1: I didn't even know what to say. It's like, I 202 00:09:51,300 --> 00:09:51,740 Speaker 1: don't know what. 203 00:09:52,820 --> 00:09:56,230 Speaker 3: I can't bring anybody back. I can't make my kids 204 00:09:56,270 --> 00:09:59,090 Speaker 3: move back to Michigan so they can be, there's nothing 205 00:09:59,110 --> 00:10:02,490 Speaker 3: I can do I can't change a situation. So God, 206 00:10:02,510 --> 00:10:05,890 Speaker 3: you have to change my perspective. You have to, you 207 00:10:05,929 --> 00:10:10,070 Speaker 3: have to, there's no other option. And, uh, uh, I 208 00:10:10,170 --> 00:10:12,729 Speaker 3: feel like there were times I didn't want to talk 209 00:10:12,750 --> 00:10:15,250 Speaker 3: to God because I was not real. I wasn't angry 210 00:10:15,290 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 3: at God ever, but I was not happy with the situation. 211 00:10:17,740 --> 00:10:19,780 Speaker 3: And you know, when you're not happy about stuff, you 212 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 3: don't want to talk to anybody, you know? And so 213 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,980 Speaker 3: sometimes I didn't want to talk to God, but yet 214 00:10:25,020 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 3: I wanted to be with him. So sometimes I would 215 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 3: just listen to him to worship music, um, Sometimes I 216 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,540 Speaker 3: would just be quiet, which is for people that know me, 217 00:10:33,620 --> 00:10:37,829 Speaker 3: that's rare because I'm just always talking. But I would 218 00:10:37,870 --> 00:10:40,970 Speaker 3: just be quiet and just sit in my sorrow and 219 00:10:41,090 --> 00:10:43,910 Speaker 3: really feel it. And then I'd wipe my eyes and 220 00:10:43,950 --> 00:10:44,729 Speaker 3: I'd go about my day. 221 00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:50,890 Speaker 1: That's so beautiful that sometimes prayer can be without any words. 222 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: My four-year-old, we were telling her the other day about. 223 00:10:57,380 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: How you can pray and not pray out loud. 224 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 2: And it was so funny to have this conversation with 225 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:05,610 Speaker 2: her about what that would look like. I mean, she 226 00:11:05,620 --> 00:11:08,630 Speaker 2: was like, really, you can do that? And her dad 227 00:11:08,670 --> 00:11:10,130 Speaker 2: was trying to explain it to her. And he was saying, 228 00:11:10,150 --> 00:11:12,190 Speaker 2: you know, yeah, you know, a lot of times I 229 00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:15,290 Speaker 2: just think what I want to say to God and he. 230 00:11:15,170 --> 00:11:16,970 Speaker 1: Can know your thoughts. 231 00:11:17,590 --> 00:11:19,809 Speaker 2: And so we see her the next day and she's like, 232 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:26,060 Speaker 2: Like mouthing her words to pray to, you know. 233 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,140 Speaker 1: And then we'll get ready to do our nighttime prayers. 234 00:11:28,220 --> 00:11:30,990 Speaker 2: And she's like, I think I'll just pray to myself. 235 00:11:31,090 --> 00:11:33,030 Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, well, that's great. You know, sometimes, 236 00:11:33,070 --> 00:11:33,890 Speaker 1: but sometimes. 237 00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:36,210 Speaker 2: We do want to pray together and, you know, trying 238 00:11:36,250 --> 00:11:37,150 Speaker 2: to navigate that with her. 239 00:11:37,170 --> 00:11:40,750 Speaker 1: But that's so true that sometimes. We don't have to 240 00:11:40,790 --> 00:11:41,510 Speaker 1: have the words. 241 00:11:41,690 --> 00:11:44,150 Speaker 2: The scripture tells us that the spirit intercedes with groans 242 00:11:44,230 --> 00:11:46,270 Speaker 2: on our behalf. And sometimes all we can do is 243 00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 2: sit before God and just say, you know, I'm here. 244 00:11:49,540 --> 00:11:53,700 Speaker 1: This is all I've got. I've shown up today. What 245 00:11:53,740 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: can you do with this? 246 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:59,300 Speaker 2: That's a really sweet place of surrender to be even 247 00:11:59,330 --> 00:12:02,569 Speaker 2: in a hard, hard spot. You know, I think sometimes 248 00:12:02,610 --> 00:12:04,950 Speaker 2: we think our prayers need to look a certain way 249 00:12:04,990 --> 00:12:08,390 Speaker 2: or follow a certain formula or whatever that might be. 250 00:12:08,850 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: And I think. 251 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,580 Speaker 2: Loss in our lives can just strip us from that 252 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 2: a lot of the times and just leaves us kind 253 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 2: of real and raw before God. So in your book, 254 00:12:18,660 --> 00:12:23,530 Speaker 2: you use a five-day rhythm. Tell us kind of about that. 255 00:12:23,570 --> 00:12:27,189 Speaker 2: It's P's, right? It's the five P's. I love a 256 00:12:27,230 --> 00:12:28,350 Speaker 2: good alliteration. Yeah. 257 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: Um, so five piece. 258 00:12:30,340 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 2: So tell us how, what that rhythm looks like and 259 00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:37,569 Speaker 2: how can a mom adapt that same rhythm in her 260 00:12:37,630 --> 00:12:40,670 Speaker 2: life or help her child adapt that rhythm in their life? 261 00:12:42,570 --> 00:12:45,210 Speaker 3: So the book is set up as a 52 week journey. 262 00:12:45,410 --> 00:12:47,390 Speaker 3: You don't have to do it 52 weeks in a row. 263 00:12:47,730 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 3: You might come to a particular topic one week and say, wow, 264 00:12:50,700 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 3: I just want to sit with this one for a month. 265 00:12:52,660 --> 00:12:53,060 Speaker 1: It's fine. 266 00:12:53,300 --> 00:12:55,580 Speaker 3: But for people that like to do, you know, things 267 00:12:55,620 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 3: in a year, we've arranged it in 52 weeks, but 268 00:12:58,860 --> 00:13:01,540 Speaker 3: Each week, there's five days, and they all start with P. 269 00:13:01,580 --> 00:13:04,500 Speaker 3: The first day is to ponder. So there will be 270 00:13:04,630 --> 00:13:07,930 Speaker 3: some scripture there. And a little bit of teaching for 271 00:13:07,970 --> 00:13:10,190 Speaker 3: them to think about and to kind of give their 272 00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:13,109 Speaker 3: initial thoughts on the topic that's being introduced that week. 273 00:13:13,390 --> 00:13:16,460 Speaker 3: The second day is pen. That's pick up a pen 274 00:13:16,500 --> 00:13:18,900 Speaker 3: or pencil or do it on a tablet if you 275 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,959 Speaker 3: want to. Although we've left space in the book and 276 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,540 Speaker 3: it's beautifully designed so they can actually write it. And 277 00:13:24,580 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 3: so there are questions to ponder and write their responses 278 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 3: to about the teaching from the first day. The third 279 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 3: day is practice and pray. And so it's focused on prayer, 280 00:13:34,179 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 3: penning out your prayers to God. Sometimes we give you 281 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 3: a prompt to get you started. Sometimes we just give 282 00:13:38,179 --> 00:13:40,290 Speaker 3: you space to do it. But we also put that 283 00:13:40,390 --> 00:13:43,329 Speaker 3: practice in there because you don't have to do it 284 00:13:43,690 --> 00:13:47,829 Speaker 3: to experience the book and go on that 52-week journey. 285 00:13:47,870 --> 00:13:51,970 Speaker 3: But we encourage people to try within 52 weeks to 286 00:13:52,010 --> 00:13:54,370 Speaker 3: memorize the chunk of scripture the book is based on, 287 00:13:54,390 --> 00:13:55,569 Speaker 3: and that's from Lamentations 3. 288 00:13:55,570 --> 00:13:58,140 Speaker 1: And we can talk about that more if you want to. 289 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 3: But we give little tips of how to slowly, memorize 290 00:14:03,260 --> 00:14:03,980 Speaker 3: that over. 291 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,620 Speaker 1: The time that you consume the book. And then day 292 00:14:06,660 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: four is pause. 293 00:14:07,460 --> 00:14:10,859 Speaker 3: And that's time to just kind of sit, think about 294 00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:14,140 Speaker 3: what you've learned that week and allow the Holy Spirit 295 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 3: to help you to process your feelings about the topic 296 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,619 Speaker 3: of the week. And do I think differently about it 297 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,450 Speaker 3: now that I've read this teaching or I've learned what 298 00:14:21,490 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 3: that Hebrew word yant or I've, you know, been introduced 299 00:14:26,020 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 3: to a verse I never saw before or a concept 300 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,100 Speaker 3: I never saw before. So you kind of just pause 301 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,590 Speaker 3: and take it all in. And then the fifth day, 302 00:14:32,610 --> 00:14:35,930 Speaker 3: I think it's actually my favorite day. It's called Pathway. 303 00:14:36,670 --> 00:14:40,010 Speaker 3: And that is a day that we put in because 304 00:14:40,030 --> 00:14:43,250 Speaker 3: we didn't want people to just think about their sorrow 305 00:14:43,570 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 3: and what God says about it and how he meets us. 306 00:14:45,970 --> 00:14:48,850 Speaker 1: We wanted them to have hope. That's the title, Hope 307 00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:50,580 Speaker 1: for the Heartbroken. hope for the future. 308 00:14:50,620 --> 00:14:52,979 Speaker 3: Like, is there something now I could start to do differently? 309 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,180 Speaker 3: And so these are like little gentle challenges. Sometimes it 310 00:14:56,220 --> 00:14:59,150 Speaker 3: might be something very simple as, you know, start to 311 00:14:59,190 --> 00:15:02,950 Speaker 3: think differently when, when this feeling rises up, you know, 312 00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:05,610 Speaker 3: preach to yourself that verse we, we don't stop this week. 313 00:15:05,730 --> 00:15:11,310 Speaker 3: And sometimes it's a little more, um, uh, Bold of 314 00:15:11,370 --> 00:15:14,330 Speaker 3: a challenge. For example, I'll just say one that actually 315 00:15:14,570 --> 00:15:16,590 Speaker 3: happened to me after I lost all those people. It 316 00:15:16,630 --> 00:15:19,670 Speaker 3: was so hard for me, Nicolette, to go to this 317 00:15:19,830 --> 00:15:24,220 Speaker 3: particular indoor farmer's market called Horrocks Farmer's Market in Lansing, Michigan, 318 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,100 Speaker 3: that I'd grown up going to. I mean, I remember 319 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:28,500 Speaker 3: when Mr. Horrock had a fruit stand on the corner, 320 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,180 Speaker 3: and we would get our Christmas trees there and our 321 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 3: Halloween pumpkins and everything. And once all those parents passed away, 322 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,500 Speaker 3: especially my mom, who passed away near the age of 90, 323 00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:39,900 Speaker 3: still lived alone, but didn't like to drive on that 324 00:15:39,940 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 3: side of town a lot. So she and I would 325 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,359 Speaker 3: go there almost every Friday. And I thought, how in 326 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 3: the world, how in the world do I live in 327 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 3: a world where Horrocks Farm Market exists, but my mom doesn't? 328 00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:52,850 Speaker 1: Because one always went with the other. 329 00:15:52,890 --> 00:15:55,990 Speaker 3: So the little gentle, kind of bold challenge for me 330 00:15:56,590 --> 00:15:59,290 Speaker 3: that my counselor. 331 00:15:59,010 --> 00:16:00,790 Speaker 1: Actually gave me after my mom had been gone about 332 00:16:00,830 --> 00:16:02,470 Speaker 1: three months, and she. 333 00:16:02,390 --> 00:16:04,670 Speaker 3: Was the third of the four parents to die, was 334 00:16:05,090 --> 00:16:06,330 Speaker 3: go back to that farmer's market. 335 00:16:06,870 --> 00:16:08,090 Speaker 1: Maybe don't go alone. 336 00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:10,340 Speaker 3: I took my son Mitchell with me, but I hadn't 337 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:11,540 Speaker 3: gone there in three months and I used to go 338 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,420 Speaker 3: there every Friday. I couldn't do it. So there's this 339 00:16:14,500 --> 00:16:16,820 Speaker 3: pathway on that fifth day. Again, it might be just 340 00:16:17,460 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 3: think differently and it might be something like go do 341 00:16:19,710 --> 00:16:22,570 Speaker 3: the hard thing. But we really felt like that fifth 342 00:16:22,610 --> 00:16:25,010 Speaker 3: day really is going to help people make. 343 00:16:24,850 --> 00:16:26,430 Speaker 1: Progress and have hope for the future. 344 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,030 Speaker 2: That's so powerful. That's so powerful. And I love how 345 00:16:30,070 --> 00:16:33,710 Speaker 2: you say, you know, they're gentle prompts. They're gentle reminders. 346 00:16:34,350 --> 00:16:37,690 Speaker 2: And I think, you know, you can have gentle reminders 347 00:16:37,730 --> 00:16:39,690 Speaker 2: because you've been through the heartbreak. And you know that 348 00:16:39,750 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 2: some days you can go do the hard thing and 349 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 2: some days you can't. And some days you just can 350 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,140 Speaker 2: do this small pathway. And I love that you've built 351 00:16:47,180 --> 00:16:50,739 Speaker 2: that into the book as a journey forward. that you're 352 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,530 Speaker 2: leaving space for where you are and where God is 353 00:16:54,550 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 2: and where he's pushing you and leading you in those seasons. Amber, 354 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 2: what's your favorite part of the piece? Or what have you, 355 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: if you have an example of working that out in 356 00:17:04,020 --> 00:17:04,380 Speaker 2: your life? 357 00:17:06,460 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: I really love The Ponders. 358 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,660 Speaker 4: I mean, I know that's the beginning, but I think 359 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,430 Speaker 4: that just really helps, at least for me, study the scripture. 360 00:17:13,450 --> 00:17:16,149 Speaker 4: And you get to hear lots of our different stories. 361 00:17:16,170 --> 00:17:19,030 Speaker 4: This is not just about us losing someone. So this 362 00:17:19,070 --> 00:17:21,330 Speaker 4: book is for anybody, any type of grief. It could 363 00:17:21,369 --> 00:17:24,190 Speaker 4: be divorce. It could be job loss, pet loss. It 364 00:17:24,210 --> 00:17:26,470 Speaker 4: could be just your life is not how you thought 365 00:17:26,490 --> 00:17:28,340 Speaker 4: it was going to go. There's some stories in there 366 00:17:28,380 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 4: about struggling with addiction, lots of different types of grief 367 00:17:31,980 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 4: and loss. So I think just I wanted to hear 368 00:17:34,540 --> 00:17:36,679 Speaker 4: other people's stories. And so for me, that was my 369 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,700 Speaker 4: favorite is getting to read what other people have gone 370 00:17:38,740 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 4: through and how they can gently lead you out. But 371 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,050 Speaker 4: also it's scripturally and biblically based. So I really love 372 00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:46,310 Speaker 4: the ponder, but I love the pathway too, because we 373 00:17:46,330 --> 00:17:47,949 Speaker 4: don't want anyone to stay stuck where they are. 374 00:17:47,970 --> 00:17:50,090 Speaker 1: This is, we want to walk with you through this. 375 00:17:50,190 --> 00:17:52,770 Speaker 4: And we're three women who have, our friendship has been 376 00:17:52,810 --> 00:17:55,949 Speaker 4: forged in the fire of suffering and we want to 377 00:17:55,990 --> 00:17:58,580 Speaker 4: help lead you out and walk you through. And so 378 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 4: these are like, like Karen said, gentle steps to help 379 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:02,940 Speaker 4: you move forward and you can do the hard thing. 380 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,060 Speaker 4: You can do hard things, but there are also some 381 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 4: that like, if you're not ready for today to do 382 00:18:06,740 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 4: the hard thing, you can do something gentle. 383 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:09,420 Speaker 3: Yeah. 384 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: So we're here. 385 00:18:10,140 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 4: The book is to meet you wherever you are in 386 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 4: your grief, whether it's day one or year seven, we're 387 00:18:15,420 --> 00:18:16,020 Speaker 4: there to meet you. 388 00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:16,740 Speaker 1: Yeah. 389 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 3: And I just wanted to piggyback on that Amber by saying, 390 00:18:19,020 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 3: you know, Ruth, Amber and I, especially that day, that pathway, 391 00:18:22,660 --> 00:18:24,780 Speaker 3: we want to have lots of grace with the reader. 392 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,379 Speaker 3: Those days are totally skippable. If you look at that, go, 393 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:28,900 Speaker 3: I can't go to that farmer's market. 394 00:18:28,980 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: Not today. 395 00:18:29,460 --> 00:18:30,389 Speaker 2: Okay. Skip it. 396 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:31,270 Speaker 1: Just skip it. 397 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,699 Speaker 3: There's lots and lots of grace in the book. You 398 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,790 Speaker 3: don't have to do everything in order to get something 399 00:18:35,850 --> 00:18:38,970 Speaker 3: out of it. They're just suggestions that we've found helpful 400 00:18:39,390 --> 00:18:40,129 Speaker 3: in our journeys. 401 00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:42,970 Speaker 2: In your journey, it's like a friend that has walked 402 00:18:43,030 --> 00:18:47,169 Speaker 2: the road before you, just kind of offering some suggestions 403 00:18:47,369 --> 00:18:55,590 Speaker 2: along the way. Okay, so let's talk about when we're 404 00:18:55,670 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 2: helping our children navigate heart rate. Because we've talked a 405 00:19:01,060 --> 00:19:04,060 Speaker 2: lot about, I feel like if the mom is navigating heartbreak, 406 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:05,060 Speaker 2: what that might look like. 407 00:19:05,220 --> 00:19:08,370 Speaker 1: And certainly our heartbreak affects our children, right? 408 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,830 Speaker 2: If we're walking through a season of grief, that would 409 00:19:10,850 --> 00:19:12,369 Speaker 2: affect our children and our family. 410 00:19:12,410 --> 00:19:13,590 Speaker 1: It affects all parts of us. 411 00:19:13,670 --> 00:19:15,930 Speaker 2: Amber, you said, I had to pick up because I 412 00:19:15,930 --> 00:19:17,790 Speaker 2: had two other kids depending on me. 413 00:19:18,190 --> 00:19:19,550 Speaker 1: How do you walk through that and do that? 414 00:19:19,570 --> 00:19:21,869 Speaker 2: But maybe tell us a little bit, how did you 415 00:19:21,950 --> 00:19:24,659 Speaker 2: help your other children walk through that season? 416 00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:27,700 Speaker 1: Karen, how did you help your adult children walk through. 417 00:19:27,540 --> 00:19:31,260 Speaker 2: Losing all of their grandparents and aunts and childhood friend, 418 00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 2: you know, how do we support our children well in 419 00:19:34,020 --> 00:19:35,380 Speaker 2: these seasons of heartbreak? 420 00:19:37,460 --> 00:19:40,830 Speaker 4: Yeah, for, I'll tell you, being a grieving mother, still 421 00:19:40,869 --> 00:19:43,449 Speaker 4: having to be a good mother, you know, to her 422 00:19:43,530 --> 00:19:45,550 Speaker 4: other living children was the hardest thing I've ever had 423 00:19:45,590 --> 00:19:48,210 Speaker 4: to do because you're grieving so deeply. So I would, 424 00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 4: just speaking of myself here, I would allow myself time 425 00:19:50,900 --> 00:19:53,239 Speaker 4: in the morning to wake up and be alone and 426 00:19:53,300 --> 00:19:55,699 Speaker 4: grieve and be with the Lord and lament and cry. 427 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,689 Speaker 4: And then I would wipe my eyes and get up 428 00:19:57,770 --> 00:19:59,830 Speaker 4: and go try to be a good mom. And so 429 00:20:00,090 --> 00:20:02,370 Speaker 4: something that we did, I can't say what's perfect. There's 430 00:20:02,410 --> 00:20:04,750 Speaker 4: no right or wrong way to grieve. There's not. 431 00:20:04,970 --> 00:20:07,190 Speaker 1: You just do what you can and you do your best. 432 00:20:07,250 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: But I... For us, we let them see us grieve. 433 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: We let them see us cry. 434 00:20:12,220 --> 00:20:14,300 Speaker 4: I didn't let them see me curled up on the 435 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,990 Speaker 4: bathroom floor, but they saw us sad. We told them that, 436 00:20:18,050 --> 00:20:19,629 Speaker 4: you know, this life is not the way that it's 437 00:20:19,650 --> 00:20:21,730 Speaker 4: supposed to be, but we're going to be okay with 438 00:20:21,770 --> 00:20:23,649 Speaker 4: our eyes on the Lord. And so any emotion that 439 00:20:23,710 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 4: you're feeling is okay, whether you are happy today or 440 00:20:26,420 --> 00:20:29,100 Speaker 4: you're sad today or you're mad today. All of those 441 00:20:29,140 --> 00:20:32,580 Speaker 4: things are okay. We did put them in play therapy. 442 00:20:32,940 --> 00:20:33,619 Speaker 1: That's an option. 443 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,330 Speaker 4: I think, you know, therapy and counseling are good additions 444 00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:39,930 Speaker 4: to things that we might need for a season. We 445 00:20:39,970 --> 00:20:41,750 Speaker 4: let them say his name. We let them play with 446 00:20:41,790 --> 00:20:45,540 Speaker 4: his toys. We didn't lock everything away. We still very 447 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 4: much kept River a part of our family life. 448 00:20:49,020 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 2: Right. 449 00:20:50,530 --> 00:20:52,150 Speaker 4: I will say that by the grace of God, they're 450 00:20:52,170 --> 00:20:55,530 Speaker 4: doing so well and they're thriving. And I'm so thankful 451 00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 4: for that. So really, I think just being open and 452 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,899 Speaker 4: honest with our children, they're smarter than we think. And 453 00:21:00,940 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 4: so we were even told from the hospital, tell them 454 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 4: the truth. Don't try to sugarcoat things. Don't try to 455 00:21:06,380 --> 00:21:10,010 Speaker 4: soften things. They're very smart. They're very resilient and they 456 00:21:10,030 --> 00:21:13,109 Speaker 4: can handle certain things. So we were just very honest 457 00:21:13,150 --> 00:21:16,130 Speaker 4: with them and allowed their questions and cried with them 458 00:21:16,530 --> 00:21:17,950 Speaker 4: and prayed with them all the time. 459 00:21:17,970 --> 00:21:22,820 Speaker 2: Yeah. Honestly, Karen, what about in your experience with older 460 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,460 Speaker 2: children walking through that journey? 461 00:21:24,660 --> 00:21:27,180 Speaker 3: Yeah, my children were older, and I would say all 462 00:21:27,220 --> 00:21:29,170 Speaker 3: of that still applies. Tell them the truth, especially if 463 00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:33,969 Speaker 3: there's a diagnosis. With one of the four grandparents, there 464 00:21:34,010 --> 00:21:36,540 Speaker 3: was a diagnosis. With the other three, it was a 465 00:21:36,619 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 3: fall diagnosis. at the age of near 90 or just 466 00:21:39,619 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 3: above 90 that then led to them passing away. 467 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: But tell the truth. Like, don't say, oh, they're going 468 00:21:46,380 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 1: to be fine. They might not be, you know? 469 00:21:48,380 --> 00:21:51,859 Speaker 3: And I did have experience with younger kids, too, in 470 00:21:51,900 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 3: that I have, like I said, my biological grandchildren are 471 00:21:55,440 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 3: just four and nine months. But my daughter, my adult daughter, 472 00:22:00,859 --> 00:22:04,770 Speaker 3: has godchildren who have grown up with us as their grandparents. 473 00:22:04,810 --> 00:22:08,500 Speaker 3: They're Their parents are immigrants from Ethiopia, so they are 474 00:22:08,540 --> 00:22:11,530 Speaker 3: not around their biological grandparents. And I'm Grandma Kit, and 475 00:22:11,550 --> 00:22:15,060 Speaker 3: my husband is Pops. And when my mom passed away 476 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 3: in 2021, our, we call her our grand goddaughter, Naomi, 477 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,570 Speaker 3: she did not know what death was. Like, I think 478 00:22:24,619 --> 00:22:27,250 Speaker 3: we need to remember our experience with death when we 479 00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:29,270 Speaker 3: were dealing with the child. They might not know what 480 00:22:29,290 --> 00:22:31,869 Speaker 3: it was. Like, Naomi had never known anyone in her 481 00:22:31,910 --> 00:22:33,689 Speaker 3: life that had died. Now, most of the relatives are 482 00:22:33,710 --> 00:22:36,429 Speaker 3: back in Ethiopia, so she's not around them. There are 483 00:22:36,450 --> 00:22:38,109 Speaker 3: some here in the States, but none of them had 484 00:22:38,150 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 3: ever passed away. She didn't even ever have an animal 485 00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:46,220 Speaker 3: pass away. I don't think she, you know, from exploring 486 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,070 Speaker 3: it with her, knew what it was like if an animal, 487 00:22:48,090 --> 00:22:48,970 Speaker 3: like a squirrel died. 488 00:22:49,010 --> 00:22:50,990 Speaker 1: Like she didn't even know what death was. 489 00:22:51,050 --> 00:22:53,889 Speaker 3: And when my mom passed away, she's like, what do 490 00:22:53,910 --> 00:22:55,990 Speaker 3: you mean great-grandma Margaret died? 491 00:22:56,050 --> 00:22:56,629 Speaker 1: What's died? 492 00:22:57,070 --> 00:23:00,430 Speaker 3: What's death? She was not quite 10 yet. I think 493 00:23:00,450 --> 00:23:02,620 Speaker 3: she was eight when my mom passed away. 494 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,540 Speaker 1: I gotta do the math. Yeah, she was eight. 495 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 3: And so somebody in the family tried explaining to her 496 00:23:08,460 --> 00:23:10,220 Speaker 3: about the funeral and being in the ground, and then 497 00:23:10,260 --> 00:23:14,310 Speaker 3: she couldn't sleep. She was like, it's dark in the ground. It's, it's, 498 00:23:14,790 --> 00:23:17,590 Speaker 3: it's sad in the ground. What if she, what if 499 00:23:17,630 --> 00:23:19,609 Speaker 3: she needs to eat something? So we had to explain 500 00:23:19,630 --> 00:23:21,910 Speaker 3: to her, no, when you're passed away, your body doesn't 501 00:23:21,950 --> 00:23:24,429 Speaker 3: work anymore. And who you are is in heaven. It 502 00:23:24,450 --> 00:23:25,950 Speaker 3: was very complicated. 503 00:23:26,550 --> 00:23:27,030 Speaker 2: Yes. 504 00:23:27,150 --> 00:23:28,450 Speaker 1: I never thought of it before. 505 00:23:28,470 --> 00:23:30,260 Speaker 3: I just thought it's going to be sad to say 506 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,020 Speaker 3: you won't see them anymore at holidays, but she didn't 507 00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 3: even understand what death was. So I think we need 508 00:23:36,100 --> 00:23:38,900 Speaker 3: to really go back to basics and ask the Lord 509 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,300 Speaker 3: to help us explain things on their level and, And 510 00:23:42,340 --> 00:23:45,020 Speaker 3: I just think back to my own childhood. I didn't 511 00:23:45,060 --> 00:23:47,940 Speaker 3: know the grandparents on my dad's side. They died before 512 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 3: I was born or when I was three months old. 513 00:23:50,220 --> 00:23:53,330 Speaker 3: So I didn't ever know them. But on my mom's side, 514 00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:56,449 Speaker 3: when my grandmother, my maternal grandmother passed away, I was 515 00:23:56,510 --> 00:23:58,810 Speaker 3: in the fourth grade and I didn't know a whole 516 00:23:58,830 --> 00:24:01,429 Speaker 3: lot about death either. And I think back to the 517 00:24:01,470 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 3: things people did right and the things I feel that 518 00:24:05,420 --> 00:24:07,940 Speaker 3: we're helpful in the things that weren't helpful, you know? 519 00:24:08,180 --> 00:24:11,420 Speaker 3: And we don't, when we're adults, we just, you know, think, oh, 520 00:24:11,460 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 3: they passed away. We're going to be sad. Let's talk 521 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,580 Speaker 3: about the grief. Let's talk about what is death. They 522 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:17,850 Speaker 3: might not even understand it. 523 00:24:18,790 --> 00:24:22,510 Speaker 2: And maybe we talk about it before, you know, before 524 00:24:22,590 --> 00:24:26,770 Speaker 2: it comes to our family, right? I think about, you know, last, 525 00:24:26,970 --> 00:24:29,710 Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago, I lost one of my 526 00:24:29,810 --> 00:24:33,380 Speaker 2: bosses and mentor's And so I had to travel to 527 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,290 Speaker 2: his funeral. And so I had to explain to my 528 00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:38,070 Speaker 2: daughter I was going, you know, out of town for 529 00:24:38,130 --> 00:24:38,770 Speaker 2: a funeral. 530 00:24:38,930 --> 00:24:41,190 Speaker 1: And so we talked about. 531 00:24:41,609 --> 00:24:43,990 Speaker 2: What that was and what I was, you know, and 532 00:24:44,010 --> 00:24:46,310 Speaker 2: it wasn't somebody that she, she's met him a couple 533 00:24:46,330 --> 00:24:49,010 Speaker 2: of times, but not that she had known very closely 534 00:24:49,070 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 2: or whatever. And in her own processing, while she stayed 535 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 2: with my mom, while I went to the funeral, she 536 00:24:58,180 --> 00:25:02,630 Speaker 2: drew a picture for me to mail to his wife. 537 00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:04,129 Speaker 1: And she drew heaven. 538 00:25:05,670 --> 00:25:09,129 Speaker 2: And for her, it was pink and purple and mint 539 00:25:09,150 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 2: because that's her favorite colors. And she just made what 540 00:25:12,859 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 2: to her was the most beautiful thing that she could make. 541 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: And she called it heaven. And she said, because they're there, right, mom? 542 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 1: And I said, yeah. You know, that's true. 543 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,649 Speaker 2: And so in her own little way of processing that, 544 00:25:27,030 --> 00:25:29,510 Speaker 2: that wasn't even, she knew I was sad. She didn't, 545 00:25:29,670 --> 00:25:31,990 Speaker 2: she wasn't really sad herself, but she knew mama was sad. 546 00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:36,409 Speaker 2: And so she drew heaven and she prayed for his 547 00:25:36,490 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 2: wife every morning and night for several weeks. And just this, 548 00:25:41,470 --> 00:25:44,780 Speaker 2: that introduction, I feel like that wasn't, you know, somebody 549 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 2: immediately close to her, but me just kind of talking 550 00:25:47,619 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 2: about that with her, not that, did it perfectly. But, 551 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,699 Speaker 2: you know, how can we begin to have these conversations 552 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,850 Speaker 2: maybe before the situation is in our family? Because it 553 00:25:56,890 --> 00:25:59,530 Speaker 2: will be, right? It will be in one place or another. 554 00:25:59,609 --> 00:26:02,370 Speaker 2: So how are we, you know, not just going, well, 555 00:26:02,630 --> 00:26:05,129 Speaker 2: don't worry about that or, you know, because she's asking 556 00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 2: questions and she's wondering about things and they can understand 557 00:26:08,619 --> 00:26:11,640 Speaker 2: more than what we think, right, Amber? That they're smart 558 00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 2: and they're picking up on things and, you know, how 559 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,990 Speaker 2: are we supporting them? So that they have a healthy 560 00:26:18,030 --> 00:26:26,449 Speaker 2: understanding of death and heartache and grief. So those are 561 00:26:26,490 --> 00:26:31,230 Speaker 2: really great examples of how to help navigate that. So 562 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,300 Speaker 2: I want to talk, Amber, you mentioned earlier, God is 563 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 2: so near to the brokenhearted and you learned that in a. 564 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,340 Speaker 1: Very real way. How do we help a child? 565 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,150 Speaker 2: Understand that God is close to them when their heart 566 00:26:46,210 --> 00:26:48,969 Speaker 2: is broken and the pain is maybe too big for 567 00:26:49,010 --> 00:26:52,310 Speaker 2: them to even have words to explain what they're feeling. 568 00:26:53,310 --> 00:26:55,950 Speaker 4: I think like you said, I think starting them early 569 00:26:55,970 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 4: of telling them of the story of scripture and what, 570 00:26:59,340 --> 00:27:01,700 Speaker 4: what God has come to do and that he created 571 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 4: them and that the world, you know, go through the 572 00:27:04,100 --> 00:27:05,820 Speaker 4: fall and talk about how the world is not how 573 00:27:05,859 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 4: it's supposed to be. But from the beginning, God has 574 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 4: made a way to redeem and rescue people back to 575 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,030 Speaker 4: himself and save sinners. And he's, He's going to fix 576 00:27:14,130 --> 00:27:14,950 Speaker 4: all that is broken. 577 00:27:15,410 --> 00:27:17,929 Speaker 1: But even Jesus says in this world, you will have trouble, 578 00:27:18,010 --> 00:27:20,780 Speaker 1: but take heart. I have overcome the world. So sharing 579 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,540 Speaker 1: the stories of scripture with them, get them in a 580 00:27:22,580 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: gospel preaching church. 581 00:27:23,540 --> 00:27:25,460 Speaker 4: So they hear it. Those seeds are planted from a 582 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 4: young age. And so we're always pointing, like you said, 583 00:27:28,220 --> 00:27:31,330 Speaker 4: teach them early. We're always pointing them to hope that, yes, 584 00:27:31,380 --> 00:27:32,869 Speaker 4: we are going to suffer. Yes, we are going to 585 00:27:32,890 --> 00:27:35,570 Speaker 4: go through really hard things, but you're never alone. And 586 00:27:35,609 --> 00:27:37,050 Speaker 4: how do we know that? Like the song, the very 587 00:27:37,070 --> 00:27:39,449 Speaker 4: simple song, Jesus loves me. This I know for the 588 00:27:39,490 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 4: Bible tells me so. So we know these things because 589 00:27:42,460 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 4: this is what the Bible says. And this is God's word. 590 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,140 Speaker 4: And this is his truth. And He has suffered with 591 00:27:47,260 --> 00:27:50,210 Speaker 4: us and stepped into our suffering with us and died 592 00:27:50,290 --> 00:27:52,350 Speaker 4: for us. And so just telling them all the stories 593 00:27:52,790 --> 00:27:55,250 Speaker 4: of what God has done and what He is doing 594 00:27:55,290 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 4: and what He still promises to do, pointing them to 595 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 4: that hope. Like you've already instilled that in your daughter 596 00:28:00,460 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 4: that she knows of heaven. 597 00:28:01,940 --> 00:28:02,940 Speaker 1: She knows of that hope. 598 00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:06,469 Speaker 4: And I think just like you talked about praying with 599 00:28:06,490 --> 00:28:08,949 Speaker 4: your daughter, pray with your children all the time. Let 600 00:28:08,990 --> 00:28:11,270 Speaker 4: them know that just because they can't see something doesn't 601 00:28:11,310 --> 00:28:13,990 Speaker 4: mean it's not there. I read a really good book. 602 00:28:14,210 --> 00:28:16,850 Speaker 4: It's called The Moon is Always Round. And it's about 603 00:28:17,570 --> 00:28:21,090 Speaker 4: a mother who has a miscarriage and the moon is 604 00:28:21,130 --> 00:28:23,230 Speaker 4: in stages. Sometimes you can see it and it's really 605 00:28:23,270 --> 00:28:25,690 Speaker 4: small and sometimes it's completely gone and you can't see it. 606 00:28:25,710 --> 00:28:27,750 Speaker 4: But that doesn't mean just because we can't see it 607 00:28:27,950 --> 00:28:29,230 Speaker 4: or feel it, that doesn't mean. 608 00:28:29,100 --> 00:28:29,910 Speaker 1: That it's not there. 609 00:28:29,930 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 4: And so it's not based teaching our children. It's not 610 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 4: based on how we feel because sometimes we feel things 611 00:28:35,180 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 4: that aren't true. 612 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:37,340 Speaker 1: It's based on what we know. 613 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 4: So we have to start those little conversations and plant 614 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 4: those seeds of what we know to be true versus 615 00:28:42,220 --> 00:28:42,740 Speaker 4: our feelings. 616 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:44,940 Speaker 1: That's so good. That's so good. 617 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,940 Speaker 2: And I think, you know, when we experience heartache in 618 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 2: our lives, how we navigate that is one of the 619 00:28:52,860 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 2: best gifts we can give our children, right? To watch, 620 00:28:56,270 --> 00:28:58,690 Speaker 2: for them to watch us navigate it and just for 621 00:28:58,750 --> 00:29:02,050 Speaker 2: us to say, we're sorry when we don't do it well. Um, 622 00:29:02,090 --> 00:29:04,090 Speaker 2: but to be honest about, you know, where we are 623 00:29:04,110 --> 00:29:07,860 Speaker 2: and what we're, we're walking through. Um, Karen, I want 624 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 2: to ask you a little bit about, um, How do 625 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,100 Speaker 2: we stay consistent in reading scripture? And your book is 626 00:29:16,140 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 2: a great way for somebody who is in pain to 627 00:29:18,460 --> 00:29:20,340 Speaker 2: just pick that up and have the scripture in front 628 00:29:20,380 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 2: of you. But how do we stay consistent in scripture 629 00:29:23,340 --> 00:29:25,979 Speaker 2: when we face these challenges? 630 00:29:27,530 --> 00:29:30,090 Speaker 3: It's hard because as humans, we want to do things 631 00:29:30,130 --> 00:29:33,210 Speaker 3: when we feel like doing them, right? And there's a 632 00:29:33,230 --> 00:29:36,150 Speaker 3: lot of times I didn't feel like praying. I didn't 633 00:29:36,190 --> 00:29:39,250 Speaker 3: feel like reading my Bible. I didn't feel like even 634 00:29:39,330 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 3: thinking about the loss but i knew the way forward 635 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 3: was to face it right we don't get through it 636 00:29:46,780 --> 00:29:52,020 Speaker 3: by running away and we don't actually um ever uh 637 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:58,050 Speaker 3: necessarily get through it we go through it with God 638 00:29:58,070 --> 00:30:00,890 Speaker 3: by our side because you know I would hear people 639 00:30:00,930 --> 00:30:02,850 Speaker 3: say oh you know well you'll you'll get over it 640 00:30:02,890 --> 00:30:04,990 Speaker 3: eventually and I'm like I don't think I ever will 641 00:30:05,790 --> 00:30:09,590 Speaker 3: um but I think for me this is going to 642 00:30:09,630 --> 00:30:13,390 Speaker 3: sound kind of awful but I treated it like anything 643 00:30:13,430 --> 00:30:15,190 Speaker 3: else on my schedule if I had a dentist appointment 644 00:30:15,210 --> 00:30:18,830 Speaker 3: at two o'clock I'm going to show up because if 645 00:30:18,910 --> 00:30:21,390 Speaker 3: I don't at my dentist, they charge you 35 bucks, right? 646 00:30:23,110 --> 00:30:25,610 Speaker 1: So I would just write on my schedule, you know, 647 00:30:26,550 --> 00:30:27,150 Speaker 1: read my Bible. 648 00:30:27,770 --> 00:30:28,990 Speaker 3: And I would look at that and go, I don't 649 00:30:29,050 --> 00:30:33,390 Speaker 3: feel like it, but I knew that it was going 650 00:30:33,410 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 3: to be something that helped me and not in a 651 00:30:36,740 --> 00:30:39,719 Speaker 3: magical way that just because I opened my Bible and 652 00:30:39,740 --> 00:30:41,860 Speaker 3: I ingested the content was I suddenly going to slap 653 00:30:41,900 --> 00:30:44,790 Speaker 3: a smile on my face. Nope, that didn't happen. But I, 654 00:30:47,190 --> 00:30:49,630 Speaker 3: And I didn't do this every day. But when I did, 655 00:30:50,110 --> 00:30:55,330 Speaker 3: you know, I showed up. I allowed God's word to 656 00:30:56,390 --> 00:30:58,729 Speaker 3: come into my mind. And I prayed that it would 657 00:30:58,760 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 3: also come into my heart. 658 00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:03,620 Speaker 1: And there were days that what I read was exactly 659 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,260 Speaker 1: what I needed. And there were other days what I read, 660 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:07,260 Speaker 1: I'd go, okay. 661 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 3: That's a thing, you know. But, you know, what I 662 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,660 Speaker 3: look at it, how I look at it is like eating. 663 00:31:16,770 --> 00:31:20,670 Speaker 3: You need to eat every day. Now, if I said, hey, Amber, 664 00:31:20,970 --> 00:31:24,070 Speaker 3: what'd you have for lunch last Tuesday? She, no, if 665 00:31:24,110 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 3: she went out to lunch with a friend, she might 666 00:31:25,540 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 3: remember it because, oh, is that really awesome grilled chicken salad? 667 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,060 Speaker 3: Or I don't know, she's texting, something text max, who knows? 668 00:31:31,860 --> 00:31:33,420 Speaker 3: She might be able to tell me what she ate 669 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,020 Speaker 3: last Tuesday, but for the most part, if it was 670 00:31:35,060 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 3: a daily day with her kids, an ordinary day, she 671 00:31:37,460 --> 00:31:40,870 Speaker 3: will not remember what she ate, but it still fed 672 00:31:40,890 --> 00:31:44,010 Speaker 3: her body. You might not remember what you read that day, 673 00:31:44,610 --> 00:31:48,870 Speaker 3: but it still fed your soul. So I say, treat 674 00:31:48,930 --> 00:31:53,230 Speaker 3: it like any other appointment, but it's your most important appointment. 675 00:31:53,770 --> 00:31:55,110 Speaker 3: If you miss it, you're not going to get charged 676 00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:57,540 Speaker 3: 35 bucks, but you're going to miss that opportunity for 677 00:31:57,580 --> 00:32:00,100 Speaker 3: God to give you something new, that new mercy that 678 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 3: we talk about in the book every day. 679 00:32:03,740 --> 00:32:09,430 Speaker 1: There's something about that daily coming. That is essential. It's essential. Yeah, 680 00:32:09,450 --> 00:32:11,330 Speaker 1: this podcast is called Everyday Prayers. 681 00:32:11,830 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 2: And it's that title for a very specific reason, because 682 00:32:15,540 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 2: the everydayness is what truly sustains us in those hard seasons, 683 00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:23,540 Speaker 2: even when we don't feel like it. 684 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:24,340 Speaker 1: That's so good. 685 00:32:24,980 --> 00:32:27,330 Speaker 2: Well, friends, is there anything else you want to share 686 00:32:27,450 --> 00:32:29,530 Speaker 2: with us about the book? And then I want you 687 00:32:29,570 --> 00:32:32,170 Speaker 2: to tell our listeners where they can find it and 688 00:32:32,210 --> 00:32:34,290 Speaker 2: how they can connect with you guys. 689 00:32:37,690 --> 00:32:42,190 Speaker 4: I guess I would just say that we're thankful. We're 690 00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 4: not thankful that this is how the Lord brought us 691 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 4: together through our pain. We're not thankful for the things 692 00:32:47,860 --> 00:32:50,350 Speaker 4: that we went through weren't good. but there is good 693 00:32:50,370 --> 00:32:52,390 Speaker 4: that has come from them. And we can see that 694 00:32:52,410 --> 00:32:55,270 Speaker 4: looking back now. And we have friendships through this. And 695 00:32:55,690 --> 00:32:57,710 Speaker 4: we pray that this will be something that you can 696 00:32:58,190 --> 00:33:02,330 Speaker 4: sit with, ponder with, walk through. And at least for me, 697 00:33:02,370 --> 00:33:03,870 Speaker 4: I just want people to know that your story is 698 00:33:03,910 --> 00:33:09,050 Speaker 4: not over. That sometimes that valley moment, that moment of breaking, 699 00:33:09,770 --> 00:33:12,150 Speaker 4: is the beginning of something really good is the beginning 700 00:33:12,170 --> 00:33:14,380 Speaker 4: of something that is going to transform you. We talked 701 00:33:14,420 --> 00:33:16,980 Speaker 4: yesterday and Karen said, she's not the same woman that 702 00:33:17,020 --> 00:33:19,540 Speaker 4: she was. I'm not the same woman that I used 703 00:33:19,580 --> 00:33:21,970 Speaker 4: to be. Ruth is not the same woman that she was. 704 00:33:22,490 --> 00:33:24,890 Speaker 4: We are different because of what we have gone through. 705 00:33:24,910 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 4: And again, there is goodness that has come from it. 706 00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:31,220 Speaker 4: And so I just want to encourage whoever it is, man, woman, child, 707 00:33:31,620 --> 00:33:33,500 Speaker 4: your story isn't over, that God is with you. 708 00:33:33,540 --> 00:33:34,330 Speaker 1: You are not alone. 709 00:33:34,380 --> 00:33:37,310 Speaker 4: And the Lord is working through your pain for good 710 00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:40,750 Speaker 4: and for his glory. And we're just hopeful that this 711 00:33:40,770 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 4: will bring hope to hurting hearts. 712 00:33:44,380 --> 00:33:47,570 Speaker 2: Amen. Amen. Well, Karen, tell us how we can connect 713 00:33:47,650 --> 00:33:50,210 Speaker 2: with you guys and how can we find the book? 714 00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:52,370 Speaker 2: Because I know everybody's going to want a copy after 715 00:33:52,410 --> 00:33:53,770 Speaker 2: listening with you guys. 716 00:33:53,810 --> 00:33:55,650 Speaker 1: I think this would be a great gift too, right? 717 00:33:55,970 --> 00:33:57,470 Speaker 2: So often we feel like we don't know what to 718 00:33:57,530 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 2: do when people we love are walking through heartbreak. 719 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,340 Speaker 1: How awesome to, you know, Amazon-ness. 720 00:34:03,820 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 2: To somebody, that it would show up in their moment 721 00:34:07,260 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 2: of pain. And it may sit there for a minute, 722 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,900 Speaker 2: but that they have something they can go to and 723 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,580 Speaker 2: a resource that we feel good about recommending to people. 724 00:34:15,540 --> 00:34:15,980 Speaker 3: Yeah. 725 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,819 Speaker 5: We would love for this to accompany those casseroles, you know, 726 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:25,630 Speaker 5: that you bring when somebody has a situation of pain 727 00:34:25,730 --> 00:34:28,950 Speaker 5: in their life, whether it's situation of loss because someone's 728 00:34:28,989 --> 00:34:36,690 Speaker 5: passed away or a medical diagnosis that's pretty severe or whatever. 729 00:34:36,770 --> 00:34:38,919 Speaker 5: Even if it's somebody that moves to your neighborhood, they 730 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,660 Speaker 5: might be grieving the town they left and the job 731 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 5: they left and maybe they moved from family. Sometimes we 732 00:34:44,180 --> 00:34:47,359 Speaker 5: just struggle to name the grief we're carrying, but there's 733 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,790 Speaker 5: just something not right about life, you know? And so 734 00:34:50,190 --> 00:34:54,210 Speaker 5: for those people in your life that something's not quite right, yeah, 735 00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:55,969 Speaker 5: we would love for you to gift them a copy 736 00:34:55,989 --> 00:34:56,390 Speaker 5: of this book. 737 00:34:56,670 --> 00:34:58,430 Speaker 1: And it's available anywhere. Books are sold. 738 00:34:58,469 --> 00:35:00,430 Speaker 3: You can get it online. You can get it at 739 00:35:00,450 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 3: brick and mortar stores. If they don't carry it, they 740 00:35:02,020 --> 00:35:05,219 Speaker 3: can get it for you. Um, for the three of us, 741 00:35:05,660 --> 00:35:08,660 Speaker 3: I'm not sure. I know everybody's a website, but mine's 742 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,669 Speaker 3: my name. Karen even.com. I know Ruth's is Ruth schwenk.com. Um, 743 00:35:12,790 --> 00:35:14,989 Speaker 3: and Amber, what about you? Are you Amber Emily Smith 744 00:35:15,010 --> 00:35:18,210 Speaker 3: or are you Amber Smith? She's got Emily in there sometimes. 745 00:35:18,650 --> 00:35:20,690 Speaker 4: Yeah, I usually always say Amber Emily Smith, but my 746 00:35:20,730 --> 00:35:22,090 Speaker 4: website is arisewithamber.com. 747 00:35:22,110 --> 00:35:22,990 Speaker 1: That's right. That's right. 748 00:35:23,530 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 2: We will link these in the show notes to make 749 00:35:26,380 --> 00:35:29,219 Speaker 2: it very easy for everybody to find you guys. But 750 00:35:29,260 --> 00:35:32,540 Speaker 2: the book is available on Amazon. Anywhere you can get 751 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 2: books is a great, great spot to grab a copy. 752 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 2: And you guys are all on Instagram as well. And 753 00:35:38,739 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 2: we'll provide those links as well because you're sharing about 754 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,970 Speaker 2: this and sharing biblical encouragement for women in those platforms 755 00:35:46,050 --> 00:35:49,609 Speaker 2: and We're grateful for each of your ministries and your 756 00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:51,730 Speaker 2: heart behind what you are doing. 757 00:35:52,030 --> 00:35:55,439 Speaker 3: So if you pre-order the book before its release date, 758 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 3: which it releases September 15th, so up until midnight on 759 00:35:58,900 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 3: the 14th when it turns September 15th, you can get 760 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:06,190 Speaker 3: some fun and some helpful pre-order incentives from ordering the 761 00:36:06,210 --> 00:36:09,650 Speaker 3: book anywhere. The first thing is you get early access 762 00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:11,750 Speaker 3: digitally to the introduction of the book in the first 763 00:36:11,770 --> 00:36:13,850 Speaker 3: three weeks. So you can already take a little peek 764 00:36:14,090 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 3: at the format and what it's all about. You also 765 00:36:17,219 --> 00:36:22,500 Speaker 3: get a beautiful downloadable and printable PDF of the passage 766 00:36:22,540 --> 00:36:25,739 Speaker 3: that the book is based on, Lamentations 3, verses 19 767 00:36:25,739 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 3: through 26. So people can put that up, you know, 768 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,739 Speaker 3: in their office or, you know, wherever they want. They 769 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 3: could make it the cover to a notebook, whatever you 770 00:36:32,860 --> 00:36:34,980 Speaker 3: want to do with that. And then also Amber, Ruth, 771 00:36:35,020 --> 00:36:38,330 Speaker 3: and I recorded a little... I'll say it's a podcast. 772 00:36:38,370 --> 00:36:40,270 Speaker 3: It's actually just a conversation of the three of us 773 00:36:40,469 --> 00:36:41,950 Speaker 3: talking about our friendship. 774 00:36:41,989 --> 00:36:44,730 Speaker 1: How did we meet? You know, how did we come 775 00:36:44,770 --> 00:36:46,750 Speaker 1: up with the idea for this project? Why did we 776 00:36:47,170 --> 00:36:47,569 Speaker 1: do that? 777 00:36:48,150 --> 00:36:53,230 Speaker 3: And gives a little insight into our friendship and our 778 00:36:53,330 --> 00:36:56,049 Speaker 3: walk with the Lord through grief. Like what was our scripture, 779 00:36:56,070 --> 00:36:58,190 Speaker 3: our favorite scriptures that sustained us? And how did that 780 00:36:58,230 --> 00:36:59,930 Speaker 3: turn into like one of the days of the book? 781 00:37:00,230 --> 00:37:02,799 Speaker 3: So they get those three things for free if they 782 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,110 Speaker 3: pre-order it by September 15th. 783 00:37:04,950 --> 00:37:08,140 Speaker 2: Well, I definitely want that podcast because I was hoping 784 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 2: that we had more time to be able to ask 785 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,580 Speaker 2: some of those questions. Today, we didn't get to everything. 786 00:37:12,700 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 2: So I know that our listeners are going to want 787 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 2: to hear that story as well. That's the question I'm 788 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,420 Speaker 2: asking at the end of this recording. So I think 789 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,060 Speaker 2: they'll be asking that as well. So they can get 790 00:37:21,100 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 2: that before midnight on the 14th and get those pre-order 791 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,660 Speaker 2: bonuses available to them. And we'll put the link for 792 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,620 Speaker 2: that and that'll also be available through you guys' website. 793 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,140 Speaker 2: But thank you so much for being with us today. Amber, 794 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 2: would you pray for our listeners as we close out 795 00:37:37,430 --> 00:37:38,609 Speaker 2: our conversation today? 796 00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:42,770 Speaker 1: Yes. Lord, you are good, God. 797 00:37:42,930 --> 00:37:45,330 Speaker 4: And sometimes the things that we face in this fallen world, 798 00:37:45,390 --> 00:37:49,940 Speaker 4: they don't feel good. God, would you unite hearts to yourself? 799 00:37:50,820 --> 00:37:52,819 Speaker 4: Would you be with all of these listeners, Lord? You 800 00:37:52,860 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 4: know what every single person has faced, is facing, or 801 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,240 Speaker 4: will face. God, would you comfort them as your word says? 802 00:37:59,300 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 4: Would you be so close to the brokenhearted? Would you 803 00:38:02,780 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 4: pierce the hearts of the people listening, whether they need 804 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 4: this book or if they have someone in their life 805 00:38:08,580 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 4: that might need it? Lord, would you guide them to 806 00:38:11,340 --> 00:38:13,819 Speaker 4: be able to be a comforter to them, Lord, as 807 00:38:13,860 --> 00:38:16,319 Speaker 4: you have been such a comforter to us? Help us 808 00:38:16,380 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 4: to pray when it's hard. Lord, help us to pray 809 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 4: when we don't have the words. 810 00:38:20,580 --> 00:38:23,220 Speaker 1: God, when all we can do is lay and cry 811 00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 1: and say, Father, I have nothing. I have nothing. You 812 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:27,410 Speaker 1: have to take this for me. 813 00:38:28,070 --> 00:38:29,969 Speaker 4: Lord, I just ask that you would do that, that 814 00:38:29,989 --> 00:38:32,169 Speaker 4: you would be with anyone listening, anyone who will listen 815 00:38:32,210 --> 00:38:35,049 Speaker 4: to this in the future, God, that you would show 816 00:38:35,110 --> 00:38:37,109 Speaker 4: them who you are. If there's people listening who don't 817 00:38:37,150 --> 00:38:40,610 Speaker 4: know you, who don't even believe if you exist, Father, 818 00:38:41,630 --> 00:38:44,070 Speaker 4: that you would show yourself to them in a way 819 00:38:44,570 --> 00:38:46,750 Speaker 4: that makes them want to fall on their knees and 820 00:38:46,830 --> 00:38:48,430 Speaker 4: beg you to be Lord over their life. 821 00:38:48,610 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 2: As part of our Fruit of the Spirit prayers and 822 00:38:50,780 --> 00:38:54,460 Speaker 2: everyday prayers for the school year book club, Tara Cole 823 00:38:54,580 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 2: and I created a free car conversations guide for your 824 00:38:58,140 --> 00:39:01,660 Speaker 2: family to use this fall. The car is sometimes the 825 00:39:01,700 --> 00:39:03,859 Speaker 2: best place for our most precious family. 826 00:39:04,310 --> 00:39:05,990 Speaker 1: Conversations with our kids. 827 00:39:06,489 --> 00:39:08,780 Speaker 2: As we are praying through the fruit of the Spirit, 828 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 2: our hope is that you can have meaningful conversations with 829 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 2: your kids about what living out these fruit looks like 830 00:39:16,100 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 2: in their daily lives. Tara and I created a series 831 00:39:18,980 --> 00:39:21,410 Speaker 2: of quick questions. She wrote some for the older kids. 832 00:39:21,620 --> 00:39:23,910 Speaker 2: I wrote some for younger kids. And we share a 833 00:39:23,950 --> 00:39:27,009 Speaker 2: prayer that you can share with your children about each 834 00:39:27,110 --> 00:39:30,359 Speaker 2: of the fruit of the Spirit. Download your copy for 835 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,980 Speaker 2: free on our website or the link in our show notes. 836 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,680 Speaker 1: Until next time, friends, the Lord bless you and keep you. 837 00:39:38,739 --> 00:39:41,629 Speaker 2: Make His face shine upon you and be gracious to you. 838 00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:45,169 Speaker 2: May the Lord look with favor on you and give 839 00:39:45,230 --> 00:39:45,690 Speaker 2: you peace.