1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Danielle gil Welcome back to the Danielle 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Gill Show. Well, today we have a very interesting show 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: for you. We are going to talk to the lawyer 4 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: who covers First Amendment issues like freedom of speech, freedom 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: of religion. We're going to talk to him who has 6 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: been representing Bevelin Beatty. You may remember Bevlin Beatty. She's 7 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: such a sweet soul. She was in one of my 8 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: dad's movies. Actually, she's this amazing pro life activist who 9 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: is a born again Christian. She was protesting an abortion 10 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: clinic in New York in sometimes during the Biden are 11 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: a couple couple years back, but basically sadly got arrested. Unfortunately, 12 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: was found guilty of violating the Face Act, which basically says, oh, 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: you know, you can't obstruct anyone from a mentoring an 14 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: abortion facility. It was very politicized, was definitely targeted in 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: a sense of you know she was. She kind of 16 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: became a casualty of the the Dobbs decision. I think 17 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: because the Dob's decision came out and at the time, 18 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: the left was outraged. They were outraged at Roe had 19 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: been overturned, and I think that the Biden DOJ my opinion, 20 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: was looking for victims, looking for people to blame. Of course, 21 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: did not want the pro life movement to take any 22 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: steam from this. So I think unfortunately Beveln was one 23 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: of the people that was very much unfairly treated because 24 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: the sentencing she got was far stricter, was far beyond 25 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,639 Speaker 1: what someone would normally have gotten for what she was doing. 26 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: But anyways, we're going to dive into the details of 27 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: that case, what happened with Beveln, and what she is 28 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: up to now. So we're going to talk with her 29 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: lawyer today and so stay with us. This is a 30 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: Danielle Gill show. 31 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: Breaking down politics, culture, and the buzz of the day 32 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: with bold conversations about faith, family and. 33 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 3: Living what you believe. This is the Danielle Gill Show. 34 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: I am delighted to welcome our guest today, Aaron Mischlebek. 35 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: He is a lawyer. He does criminal defense. He is 36 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: representing Bevelyn Beattie. We're going to talk about her and 37 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: her case in more detail. But she was someone who 38 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:36,119 Speaker 1: was protesting outside of an abortion clinic and has been 39 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: through just so much. She was arrested later parted by 40 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 1: President Trump will dive into more of the details of 41 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: the case and everything. But Aaron, thanks so much for 42 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: joining us. 43 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 4: It's good to be here. Thank you. Cool. 44 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: Well, maybe you can start out by just giving us 45 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: a little bit of background on Bevelyn's case for people 46 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: who don't know, maybe just originally what happened. Where was 47 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: the abortion clinic that she went to, what was she 48 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: protesting and what happened there? 49 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 4: Sure she was. 50 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 3: So there was a case in the Southern District of 51 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 3: New York prosecuted by the Department of Justice and the 52 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 3: specifically the US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of 53 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 3: New York, and it was based on conduct that occurred 54 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 3: in June of twenty twenty. So bev and her friend 55 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 3: ed May had participated in a protest outside of Planned 56 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 3: Parenthood in Lower Manhattan. Again, that was in June of 57 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 3: twenty twenty. YPD was on the scene. The goal of 58 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 3: the protest was to bring attention to their pro life 59 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 3: views and what was happening at the Planned Parenthood. 60 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 4: They and a number of. 61 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 3: Other protesters were out on a public sidewalk, so they 62 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 3: were present in a public space during times. Over the 63 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 3: course of two days, there were also counter protesters there 64 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 3: who were for pro choice or the abortion movement and 65 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 3: the goal for Bevin Edmey. They were live streaming this 66 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 3: on Facebook. They were trying to bring attention to their 67 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 3: point of view. It was textbooked First Amendment activity, free 68 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 3: exercise of religion and getting out their First Amendment views 69 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 3: on political the political issue of the day. So on 70 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 3: that day there were some There were a couple of 71 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 3: verbal altercations with people. There was one altercation where an 72 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 3: employee of the Planned Parenthood sort of slammed out, slammed 73 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 3: open a door onto Beverly's back. Are Bevelyn's back as 74 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 3: she was standing there, she pushed the door back and 75 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 3: the employee's hand got jammed in the door for a 76 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 3: brief period of time. Most importantly, there were no arrests. 77 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 3: Even though NYPD was on the scene, there were no 78 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 3: complaints of an assault or an injury on that day. 79 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 3: Two years went by, and during that time DOJ NYPD 80 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 3: they knew about this incident that had occurred in twenty twenty. 81 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 3: But two years later the Dobbs decision came down overturning 82 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 3: Roe versus Weight and it was certainly our theory at 83 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 3: the trial of this case, and it proved to be 84 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 3: true based on facts recently disclosed by DOJ, that THEJ 85 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 3: at that time, in part instigated by organizations like Planned Parenthood, 86 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 3: went looking for cases to prosecute under the Face Act, 87 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 3: and it was clearly in retaliation for what the Supreme 88 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 3: Court had decided in the Dots case again overturning oversus weight, 89 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 3: and instead of just being upset or in a dispute 90 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 3: at the Supreme Court about what the state of the 91 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 3: law should be, DJ in this case in New York 92 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 3: went and targeted to individuals with the power, the full 93 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 3: power of the US government behind it at that time. Eventually, 94 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 3: dev and Edmey were indicted roughly in New York in 95 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 3: New York, roughly six months after the Dobs case, and 96 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 3: the investigation resumed and we ended up going to trial. 97 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 3: At the trial, I represented edme that was represented by 98 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 3: another lawyer. Ed May was acquitted, found not guilty. She 99 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 3: still had to go through that terrible experience of being arrested, 100 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 3: having her liberty restricted for the entire time, and also 101 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 3: going through the stress and the anxiety of the trial. 102 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 3: Also had our Second Amendment rights limited during that period 103 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 3: of time, bev unfortunately was found guilty by the jury. 104 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 4: Uh. And what you know, even. 105 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: If tried in New York, you know, a huge share 106 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: with very you know liberal. 107 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 3: It was a mix of jurors candidly. I mean there 108 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 3: were some from the Westchester County area who Yeah, it 109 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 3: involved prosecutors using some of their pereptory strikes on some 110 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 3: people for their stated religion. 111 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 4: So they struck those people. 112 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 3: That was something in the recent d OG report that 113 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 3: really drew attention. 114 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: But struck them what what what religion? 115 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 3: Uh that they were Catholic, Uh, some form of Christianity, 116 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 3: you know, various various different sects of Christianity. 117 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: They didn't want any Christian jurors, I guess because they 118 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: might have been partial to Bevelin. 119 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 4: I think that was the thinking. 120 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, And there's some indication in the DG report that 121 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 3: prosecutors were strategizing that way in these bas act prosecutions 122 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 3: that were occurring across the country. So that ended up 123 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 3: getting convicted. And in New York at the state level, 124 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 3: even if she had been guilty of say assault on 125 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 3: for the hand in the door, that would normally have 126 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 3: been resolved for a misdemeanor improbation at the federal level. 127 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 3: The federal government asked for a sentence in excess of 128 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 3: three years, and the judge gave her a sentence of 129 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 3: forty one months. So you add this young woman who 130 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 3: sort of found, you know, at one point in her 131 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 3: life found Jesus used the power of that experience to 132 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 3: really reform some of the things that had occurred in 133 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 3: her life. Thought she was exercising, you know, her rights 134 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 3: under the First Amendment to go out on a public 135 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 3: sidewalk in New York and protest outside of planned parenthood, 136 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 3: and suddenly it was those reasons that led to her 137 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 3: being prosecuted by the Department of Justice in retaliation, frankly, 138 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 3: because they for what the Supreme Court did. And so 139 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 3: she was forced to surrender at a time when her 140 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 3: child was right around two three years old. She was 141 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 3: the surrender to a federal penitentiary. She did about three 142 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 3: months or so before. Fortunately President Trump pardoned her. Well, 143 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 3: but obviously she went through, you know, just a terrible, 144 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 3: terrible experience, and today she's still feeling the consequences of that. 145 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 3: You know, she had a business that was destroyed, She 146 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 3: spent time away from her daughter at a very vulnerable age. 147 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 3: She can't you cannot get those months back. 148 00:09:58,760 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 4: I think. 149 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 3: I think you're a mother of some young children yourself, 150 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 3: you recognize, like I. 151 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: Mean, it's probably just so disruptive and so scary, and 152 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: plus she didn't know she would be getting out, you 153 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: know when President Trump did pardon her, thankfully, but you know, 154 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: probably thought she was going to be in there much longer. 155 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: What was the impact I guess on her family at 156 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: the time, or what was her plan for what would 157 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: happen to the child while she was there. 158 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 3: Well, her child was being raised by her husband and 159 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 3: the child's father. 160 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 4: You know, I think she went in and. 161 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 3: Just never gave up hope and spent a lot of 162 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 3: time in prayer that the pardon application would be granted, 163 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 3: which fortunately was after a relatively short period of time 164 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 3: compared to what the sentence was going to be, which 165 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 3: was forty one months. So she's a really strong person. 166 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 3: You know. She went in with the mentality that she 167 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 3: would survive, and that she would survive through her faith, 168 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 3: and that she would try to be a light to 169 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 3: other people who were there and maybe, you know, do 170 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 3: whatever positive things she could. It was incredibly painful though, 171 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 3: I mean, in the beginning. 172 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 4: The Bureau Prisons. 173 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 3: Has a process by which visitors have to be cleared. 174 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 3: They have to submit forms and be cleared in order 175 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 3: to visit their family members. I mean that process took weeks. 176 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 3: So for weeks, as the mother of a young child, 177 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 3: she wasn't permitted to see her child, she wasn't permitted 178 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 3: to see her husband. She was living no, she was 179 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 3: incarcerated hundreds of miles away from them. So even when 180 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 3: they eventually were cleared, they had to drive many hours 181 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 3: and you know, rent a hotel and so forth, just 182 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 3: to be able. 183 00:11:58,040 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 4: To see her. 184 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 3: But she persevered, and that fight is continuing today. Right 185 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 3: Like DJ came out with the report. It backed up 186 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 3: so many of the things that we maintained at the 187 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 3: trial level that we maintained as we were proceeding with 188 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 3: Bev's appeal before she was pardoned. 189 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 4: And we're hoping that. 190 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 3: DJ, under the new administration, you know, under the Trump 191 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 3: administration and now with Todd Blanche, they're starting to make 192 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 3: amends for the people who were the victims of the 193 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 3: former DOJ administration weaponizing the Face Act, and so some 194 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 3: people are reaching some settlements and I hope that in 195 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 3: the near future. You know, something can be done for 196 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 3: Bev and her family as well as they as they 197 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:52,599 Speaker 3: went through this terrible experience. 198 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. And what was her reaction? What was that 199 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: like finding out that she got a part in for 200 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: presidential I. 201 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 3: Just pure joy, you know, just pure joy. Again, she 202 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 3: had faith that it was going to happen. But I 203 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 3: think I think the way it happened is she was 204 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 3: at the at the prison and some people were watching 205 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 3: TV and suddenly it was announced on TV. Like she 206 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 3: found out watching TV in the federal prison where she 207 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 3: was Wow, wow, I can't belave it. I just got pardoned. 208 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: Was she like watching him like that's me They're trying. 209 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 4: Exactly? 210 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 3: And then something like twenty four hours later she was 211 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 3: she was released and her husband was there with open 212 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 3: arms to pick herup. 213 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: Oh oh my gosh. 214 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 4: Wow. 215 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: Well what a blessing that that happened. Maybe you can 216 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: share a little bit about what was your strategy maybe 217 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: during the case. What were you thinking was going to happen? 218 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: Were you thinking she would get convicted at the time, 219 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: just because that's the way you know New York is 220 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: what was kind of going through your mind back then? 221 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 1: If you look back. 222 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 3: When I first started on the case and again for Misschieven, 223 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 3: who was the code efendant. I could tell right away 224 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 3: it was a likely trial case. I could tell right 225 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 3: away the reasons that DJ had brought it that it 226 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 3: was essentially retaliation for Dobs, And in my view, this 227 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 3: case sort of was the most clear indication of DJ 228 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 3: going after two people just for their views. 229 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 4: You know. 230 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 3: The Face Act also prohibits intentional obstruction or impairment of 231 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 3: ability for people to get in and out of these 232 00:14:55,280 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 3: health clinics, and it's aimed at abortion protecting a clinics. Basically, 233 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 3: it was a law that was passed during President Clinton's 234 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 3: presidency in response to some really serious acts of violence 235 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 3: that occurred at some of those types of locations, mostly 236 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 3: in the South. But you know, there are some things 237 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 3: that under the Act are sort of clear violations, like 238 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 3: if someone walks up to a door changed themselves to 239 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 3: the door so no one can get in, you know, 240 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 3: I mean, that's obviously an obstruction or an impairment of 241 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 3: people to get in, and it's an act of civil disobedience. 242 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 3: You know, there are many priests, pastors, other people who 243 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 3: are pro life who who have done those kinds of things. 244 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 3: In Bevin Edmey's case, they didn't do that. They were 245 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 3: on a public sidewalk when people sought to go in 246 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 3: or exit the planned parenthood, they stepped aside. It may 247 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 3: have taken them one or two seconds to do so, 248 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 3: but they stepped aside. They were using you know, I 249 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 3: described their method of protest as loud and proud. They 250 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 3: weren't soulful and sweet. I mean, they were out there 251 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 3: to speak angrily about what was going on and feeling 252 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 3: justified about their viewpoint. And there were people who didn't 253 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 3: want to hear it, and there were people who just 254 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 3: took the fact that these two women were speaking their 255 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 3: views as a threat to them. And that doesn't make 256 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 3: it a criminal act, right, Like the First Amendment protects 257 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 3: the right of people to go out and angrily state 258 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 3: what their views are. And the prosecution here focused on 259 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 3: them using words like terrorize or you know, we're going 260 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 3: to bring your house down, those kinds of those kinds 261 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 3: of things that Bev and edme said, But they're basically 262 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 3: straight out of the Bible. You know, the word terrorized 263 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 3: is used in the Bible not to mean we're going 264 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 3: to commit acts of terror, you know, like blowing people up, 265 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 3: or suicide bombs, or you know those kinds of things. 266 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 3: It's used as a biblical term, and say, taking down 267 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 3: the house of my enemies is a phrase that's got 268 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 3: biblical meaning, right, and it doesn't mean that somebody's saying 269 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 3: it is about to physically attack. 270 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 4: The building or the people inside it. 271 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 3: But the prosecutors tried to say that that's what the 272 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 3: intention was, even though there were hours and hours of 273 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 3: video that showed that that wasn't the case. So I 274 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 3: thought that representing edme that there was a clear First 275 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 3: Amendment defense to make in this case. We actually asked 276 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 3: the judge to give an instruction about the First Amendment, 277 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 3: just like the judge gives instructions about the burden of 278 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 3: proof that prosecutors have to prove their case beyond a 279 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 3: reasonable doubt that there's a presumption of innocence. I mean, 280 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 3: these are common things that are known by people, but 281 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 3: judges still instruct on them. And we asked the judge 282 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 3: to instruct on First amendments so that jurors would understand 283 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 3: that just because someone is loud saying things angrily, that 284 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that they've committed some kind of federal 285 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 3: criminal offense under the Face Act, and the court refused 286 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 3: to give that instruction. I think that that was a 287 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 3: mistake and it was one of the basis for the 288 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 3: appeal for bab after she was convicted. 289 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: Explain some history on the Face Act. Why when did 290 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: the Face Act start? Why are we you know, I 291 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: guess some people hear it a lot, but maybe sure. 292 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 3: So, the Face Act was passed during the first during 293 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 3: the first Clinton presidency. I think it was in roughly 294 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety four. I want to say, I'm not exactly 295 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 3: sure if if that's exact year, but it's around that time. 296 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 3: And the way it achieved bipartisan support was that it 297 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 3: includes both a protection of quote unquote health clinics, but 298 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 3: also a protection of places of worship right so churches 299 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 3: for example, And so I think that as a result 300 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 3: of that, it got support from both the Democratic Party 301 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:32,479 Speaker 3: and the Republican Party to pass this. And again, the 302 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 3: initial motivation for trying to get an act like this 303 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 3: past at that time was likely because there were a 304 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 3: few significant acts of violence in relation to clinics where 305 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 3: abortions were being provided. So there were shootings, there were bombings, 306 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 3: there were you know, things beyond sort of a civil 307 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 3: disobedience level. 308 00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 4: These were. 309 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 3: Essentially violent acts that were like in actual war in 310 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 3: a sense. So the Act passed and then over the years, 311 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 3: for the most part it was rarely used, you know. 312 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 3: There I think there was some initial use of it 313 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 3: by the Clinton administration back in the late nineties. For 314 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 3: the most part it was it was relatively dormant. And 315 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 3: part of that might also be because if there's truly 316 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 3: an act of violence or a trespass or some other 317 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 3: kind of conduct that is a violation of a criminal statute, 318 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 3: it can be prosecuted at the state level, right, I mean, 319 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 3: those are basic state kinds of offenses. By making this 320 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 3: a federal offense, you know, you introduce an eight hundred 321 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 3: pound gara into the room. Right, you have the full 322 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 3: power of the federal government. 323 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 4: You have a. 324 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 3: Statutory structure that allows sentences even up to ten years. 325 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 3: And so for many years I think Face Act prosecutions 326 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 3: were relatively rare. But what started this up again was 327 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 3: the Supreme Court's opinion in the Dobs case. Suddenly DJ 328 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 3: jumped into action to enforce, in my view, what their 329 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 3: viewpoint was on this political issue, and they went looking 330 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 3: around the country for people they could prosecute under the 331 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 3: Face Act in retaliation for the Dobs opinion, and they 332 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 3: brought cases against roughly anywhere from like thirty to fifty 333 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 3: people in different locations. But this case, in particular, the 334 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 3: one that Bevin ed May had, was one that was 335 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 3: squarely in that First Amendment. 336 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 4: Area because there was no. 337 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 3: Locking of a door or act of civil disobedience with 338 00:21:58,240 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 3: an intention to be arrested. 339 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 4: Here. 340 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 3: Their intent was to protest and attempt to persuade people 341 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 3: that their view, their pro life view was correct and 342 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 3: that people should change their decisions about getting an abortion. 343 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 3: And despite that fact, DOJ prosecuted them anyway. 344 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: Wow, what's been your observation of I guess just when 345 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: you look back at the Biden era, the DOJ at 346 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 1: that time, how much persecution there was a conservatives. How 347 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 1: do you compare that, I guess to other times when 348 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: you've been representing people other times in history, because it 349 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: seems like it was just a lot worse under Biden. 350 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 3: You know, I think, particularly in this area of First 351 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 3: Amendment speech, there's no question that represented a new and 352 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 3: increased level of prosecutions for essentially conservative viewpoints. 353 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 4: One of the things. 354 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,919 Speaker 3: As I've talked about this case to people that I 355 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 3: that is my message for people to take away from 356 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 3: a case like this is you can never let your 357 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 3: guard down. And there are other times when people have 358 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 3: been prosecuted for their views, and whether you're a Democrat 359 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 3: or a publican, what happened to bev in this case 360 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 3: should be something that scares you and makes you concerned, because, 361 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 3: as we know, power changes in terms of what political 362 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 3: party has it or which people in certain political parties 363 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 3: have it, and we as Americans, we always have to 364 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 3: be on our guard about power corrupting and being used 365 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 3: to enforce viewpoints rather than use to protect people's individual rights. 366 00:23:58,760 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 4: Right. 367 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 3: The Constitution obviously is that founding document, and the Declaration 368 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 3: of Independence is there as well life liberty and the 369 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 3: pursuit of happiness, and frequently an area of liberty that 370 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 3: gets restricted is viewpoint. Is the right for people to 371 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 3: exercise the religion that they want to exercise, and the 372 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 3: right to speak about what their political views are. So 373 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 3: I do think that there's something to history about these 374 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 3: kinds of problems coming up again and again, and the 375 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 3: only people who are the true bulwarks of liberty by 376 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 3: the people who sit on juries. Right, Like, at the 377 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 3: end of the day, it comes down to twelve people 378 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 3: sitting in a jury box deciding that the Constitution means 379 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 3: something right now. Otherwise it's just a piece of paper 380 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 3: and it's just words. Unfortunately, we had a jury that 381 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 3: down in this case. But I hope that you know, 382 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 3: regardless of political persuasion, there's something that people can take 383 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 3: from this case. And you now, even if you are 384 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 3: pro choice and a Democrat, this the prosecution of BEV 385 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,719 Speaker 3: should still be something that outrages you because it's the 386 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 3: kind of speech, the weaponization of a federal criminal statue 387 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 3: to target someone for speech that can be turned against 388 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 3: you at some point in the future, you know, and 389 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 3: that's not the. 390 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 4: Way that federal prosecution should work. 391 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, what are your thoughts on just this increase in 392 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: kind of political persecution going after conservatives? I know what 393 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: obviously a lot of the January sixth ver's this was 394 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:49,719 Speaker 1: the case. It seems like there was kind of a 395 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: slew of types of people that were targeted under the 396 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: Biden era. But of course people you know, praying or 397 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: protesting out pro life places is and it just seems 398 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: like now we're kind of a trumpet office, we think, okay, 399 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: that's like that, that's behind us. But the Democrats eventually 400 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 1: when they get power again, probably going to go back to, 401 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 1: you know, doing the same thing the Conservatives again, or 402 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 1: maybe worse. Do you have any kind of predictions or 403 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: advice for people or what do you what do you 404 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: see when you look ahead? 405 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 3: I think that one thing that people should insist on 406 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 3: from their government again sort of regardless of what parties in. 407 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 4: Control, is transparency. You know. 408 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 3: One of the reasons that we know the behind the 409 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 3: scenes details of what DJ did in relation to these 410 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 3: Face Act prosecutions is because the current DOJ administration, particularly 411 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 3: under some efforts of Todd Blanche, they showed what the 412 00:26:53,960 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 3: communications were around these prosecutions a few years ago. And 413 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 3: so I think one of the ways for citizens to 414 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 3: keep their government honest is to make sure that we 415 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 3: have an enforcement of laws regarding transparency, laws regarding freedom 416 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 3: of information, laws regarding the ability of attorneys to subpoena 417 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 3: documents and communications relating to their concerns. That prosecutions have 418 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 3: become political instead of being. 419 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 4: About the objective state of the facts. 420 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 3: So that's what I hope can be accomplished and and 421 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 3: you know that should be transparency regardless of what parties 422 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 3: in power in a particular city, state, or at the 423 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 3: federal level. And I think that's one of the ways 424 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 3: that we can, you know, all as citizens hold government 425 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 3: accountable when they when they step over the line. 426 00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: Just going back to when this all began, how did 427 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: the first find you? How did you guys have cross paths? 428 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: Is this like an arena that you focus on, do 429 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: you help a lot of conservative people? Or was it 430 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,239 Speaker 1: kind of just first Amendment? I mean, how how did 431 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: you two kind of come into contact? 432 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 3: So the answer that is it was random. I happened 433 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 3: to end up being the lawyer for Edmey and Bev 434 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 3: got to know me that way was she was represented 435 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 3: by someone else at the time, no lawyer could represent 436 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 3: both of them because it involves that doctrine of potential 437 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 3: conflict of interest, right, So both Bev and Edmey at 438 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 3: the trial level had different lawyers. But then when ed 439 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 3: May was acquitted and Bev was convicted, she decided that 440 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 3: she wanted me to represent her for her appeal and 441 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 3: for any efforts on other legal issues after that day. 442 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 3: So in a sense, it was random yeah, I happen 443 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 3: to have a lot of experience in some First Amendment 444 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 3: types of cases. And I also so have tried a 445 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 3: number of cases against the US Attorney's Office for the 446 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 3: Southern District of New York, so that happened to be 447 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 3: a particular area of expertise for me. But I've tried 448 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 3: some First Amendment type cases, you know, in many places 449 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 3: across the country. Some of them were, you know, First 450 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 3: Amendment views that conservatives don't like. Some of them are 451 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 3: First Amendment views that progressives don't like to some degree. 452 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 3: I'm a First Amendment purist and libertarian. 453 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: So well, tell us a little bit about ed May. 454 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: How did what was the case with that person? And 455 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: then why did they get up with it? 456 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 3: You know, it's hard to know exactly why the jury 457 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 3: acquitted Edme Shabbat and convicted Bev Beattie Williams. They wouldn't 458 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 3: talk about it afterwards. I suspect that it was a 459 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 3: bit of a compromise verdict, that there were some people 460 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 3: on there who were maybe it was because they were 461 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 3: pro choice and it was versus pro life, and there 462 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 3: was a deal cut in there to acquit one of 463 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 3: the two women and convict. The other you know, Bev 464 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 3: had the additional incident of the altercation where the employee 465 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 3: got her hand caught in the door, but really that 466 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 3: was no different than some verbal altercations that Edme got 467 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 3: into that. The key fact relating to both of those 468 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 3: is that these were not things initiated by either that 469 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 3: or made. They were initiated by other people, staff, volunteers 470 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 3: or counter protesters. I mean, Bev spent two days not 471 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 3: getting into fights with people. She only responded the way 472 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 3: she did with the door, you know, slamming it back 473 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 3: when it was slammed onto her. Right Like, if her 474 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,959 Speaker 3: intent had been to go and cause or assault people 475 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 3: because she wanted them to stop engaging in and abortion 476 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 3: conduct or those kinds of things, she had ample opportunities to. 477 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 4: Do that through the course of two days. 478 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 3: The only time she acted physically was when someone physically 479 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 3: acted against her. Yeah, to me, that's probably something that 480 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 3: could have been argued more effectively by her lawyer at 481 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 3: the trial. And that was sort of my point with 482 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 3: respect to Edme, who was my client at the time, 483 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 3: is that any time that ed may sort of reacted 484 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 3: really angrily or with some gesturing, it was only because 485 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 3: somebody with the other political viewpoint did it first and 486 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 3: targeted her. And that's the reason that's important is because 487 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 3: the intent there is then not to intimidate or interfere 488 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 3: with someone entering or leaving the planned parenthood. The intent 489 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 3: is clearly to react to what someone has done to you. 490 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 4: Right. 491 00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 3: It's the idea of you know, not that this was 492 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 3: a self defense case, but like you're allowed to use 493 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 3: force as somebody uses force against you first. Right, And 494 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 3: the fact that other people used force against Bev first 495 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 3: shows that when she reacted, it was a reaction. It 496 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 3: was not an action with intent to violate the Face Act. Yeah, 497 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 3: you know, so, I think that at the end of 498 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 3: the day, the jury probably made some kind of compromise 499 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 3: and that's why Edmega acquitted and Bev got convicted. 500 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, but right, tell us a little bit about what 501 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: Bev went is up to. Now, what is next for her? 502 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: How she doing so? 503 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 3: I mean, she's she certainly feels blessed to be out 504 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 3: of prison, back with her family, but you know, it's 505 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 3: a long road back, right. She can't she cannot get 506 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 3: back those months that she missed with her daughter. She 507 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 3: had a business that was sort of destroyed financially. I 508 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 3: think it's very been a very real struggle for her 509 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 3: and her family and and sort of just trying to 510 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 3: get back to some idea of normal. But she is 511 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 3: finding a lot of inspiration and the reaction of people 512 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 3: to her story, and I hope that do OJ will 513 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 3: help her continue down that path to try to get 514 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 3: back to where she was by doing some things in 515 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 3: the way of recognizing that she suffered damages as a 516 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 3: result of the prior administration. 517 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. Oh man, Well, absolutely tragic, but it ends 518 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: on a good note because the partum from President Trump, 519 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 1: so that you know, without that stating, but of course 520 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: everything she went through how horrible. But thank you so 521 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: much for being with us today and appreciate it and 522 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: all that you're doing and keep up the right work. 523 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 3: Okay, well, thanks a lot on YouTube. 524 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: Well that wraps up today's show. If you enjoyed the show, 525 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: make sure to find me on social media. I am 526 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: on all the platforms, Danielle Desusa, gil, Facebook, Instagram, x 527 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: True Social, YouTube, Rumble. Make sure to hit the subscribe button. 528 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: I want to see you guys back here next time. 529 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: So if you're listening on Apple, Spotify, definitely subscribe, turn 530 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 1: on your notifications and I will see you guys next. 531 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 2: Time, breaking down politics, culture and the buzz of the 532 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 2: day with bold conversations about faith, family, and living. 533 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 4: What you believe. This is The Danielle Gill Show.