1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Hi everyone. I'm Danielle Gill and I am so delighted 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: to welcome our guest today. We're going to be speaking 3 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: to Paul kan Gore. He is so intelligent, fascinating. We're 4 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: going to talk about hope, Leo, We're going to dive 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: into what is happening today with the church and kind 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: of just a little bit of a compare and contrast 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: with him and Francis. This is the Danielle ll Show. 8 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: I'm delighted to welcome our guest today, doctor Paul Kangor. 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: He is the professor of political science at Grove City 10 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: College in Pennsylvania, where he serves as an academic fellow 11 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: at their Institute of Faith and Freedom. He is the 12 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: editor of the American Spectator, and he's a New York 13 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: Times best selling author with over twenty books. He's written 14 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: about topics from Ronald Reagan to the Pope, to God communism. 15 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: His latest book is American Pontiff both Leo the Fourteenth 16 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: and his Plan to Heal the Church. Doctor Ken Gore, 17 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me. 18 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 2: Going to be with you again, Danielle. 19 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: Thanks yeah, course, and yes, such a long time fan 20 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,199 Speaker 1: of yours, so I'm so excited to pick your brain 21 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: about some so important topics. I think you were saying, 22 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: you're you're in a very good, safe location away from liberals. 23 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 2: So good. 24 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: Good to see that, Yes, perfect, Well, maybe you could 25 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about the book that you 26 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: recently wrote. How has Pope Leo been doing since his 27 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: first year? How do you think he's handling the various challenges, 28 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 1: maybe such as the rise of Islam. I know that 29 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: a lot of people have been voicing concerns about that, 30 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: and maybe just kind of where has he kind of 31 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: been so far in the last year. 32 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, first of all, this was a highly unexpected book, right, 33 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 2: So I was contacted by Humanics Books and they had 34 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: they had asked me to write a biography of Pope 35 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 2: Francis a few years ago. I said, well, I'm so 36 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: tired of Francis, right, I mean, I'm exhausted by covering 37 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 2: this guy, trying to explain his positions, and it just 38 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 2: got worse and worse and worse. I mean for a 39 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: long time, Danielle Ipa, you know, I explained him and 40 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: tried to explain him, and then the chaos. I mean, Francis. 41 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 2: I have a chapter in Francis call called make a 42 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 2: mess of things. I want a mess, right, And that's 43 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 2: actually his phrase, I want a mess. And he said 44 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 2: that about a half a dozen times, sometimes tongue in cheeks, 45 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 2: sometimes playfully. But it became kind of a metaphor for 46 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 2: his papacy, right. It became chaotic, confusing, and I got 47 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: to the point where I agreed with the Lake Cardinal 48 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: pell that the Francis papacy had been a catastrophe. And 49 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: in the end, liberals didn't get what they wanted, Conservatives 50 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 2: didn't know how to react to him. No one knew 51 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 2: how to react to him. So I got asked by 52 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 2: Eumanics to do a biography of Francis. I said, no, 53 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: I don't really want to do it. I don't even 54 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 2: it's hard to even know what the guy believes. I 55 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 2: don't want it to be the diet tribe against the 56 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: current pope. So when he died, I was contacted by 57 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 2: Keith from you Manniston. He said, hey, would you be 58 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 2: willing to do a book on the next Pope? And 59 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 2: I said, well, the two books that I was working 60 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 2: on were pretty much done. I had the summer coming up, 61 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,559 Speaker 2: and I said, you know, I'm going to be completely 62 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 2: absorbed by this. I'm going to be really into it. 63 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 2: I'm sure I'll be following it, covering it for the 64 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 2: American Spectator. And I said, oh, and also, the next 65 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 2: pope's almost certainly going to be an Italian and I 66 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 2: speak Italian, I read Italian, you know, perfect right? He said, great, great, 67 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 2: let's go. So they opened the conclave May seventh, right, 68 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, and a day later, right after like 69 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 2: four ballots they have the white smoke goes up. And 70 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 2: at that point we're all thinking Cardinal Petro Parolan from Italy, 71 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: maybe Pierre Bautista Pizza Bola from Italy, right, he's the 72 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 2: one who's in Jerusalem. Maybe Togley from the Philippines, somebody 73 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 2: like that. Yet all these Papa Biley, right, popable candidates, 74 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: and the one thing everybody knew was it's not going 75 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: to be an American, right, There's no way that it's 76 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 2: going to be an American right. 77 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: No way way. 78 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 2: Yeah. It was always thought, among other things, that that, 79 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 2: you know, the head of the world's spiritual power and 80 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 2: temporal power, they can't both be Americans, right. So the 81 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 2: president was the strongest, like secular leader, President of the 82 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 2: United States in the world, and the pope would be 83 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: somebody who was just not an American. Now, looking back 84 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 2: now at this, it seems kind of shortsighted because there 85 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 2: have been the American Church is so big, and there 86 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 2: are so many cardinals from America. And it was also 87 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 2: thought that in this time where Donald Trump was president, 88 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 2: right and this like colossus on the world stage, right, 89 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: you couldn't possibly have an American in Rome as well 90 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 2: as head of the Vatican. So everybody just thought it 91 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 2: would never happen, not in our lifetimes. And plus among 92 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 2: those who were listed, I don't know, I mean, who's 93 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 2: the most popular American cardinal? Maybe maybe Cardinal Dolan from 94 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 2: New York. Great guy, but you just couldn't picture him 95 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 2: being a pope, right. I will say that when you 96 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: looked at the list of like twenty to forty to fifty, 97 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 2: you know, possible Papa Bele candidates. Robert Francis Pravos from 98 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,679 Speaker 2: Chicago and who had been in Peru for all these years. 99 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 2: He was on the list, but he was I mean 100 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: very very bottom. The Vegas betting odds on this guy, 101 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 2: literal Vegas betting odds were you know, infintestimal. If you 102 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 2: had bet a million dollars on Pravost, you'd be a billionaire. Right. 103 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: So on that day that Friday, first of all, the 104 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 2: white smoke came up way earlier than everybody thought, because 105 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 2: we thought that this was going to be multiple ballots. 106 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 2: John Paul the second took eight ballots to be picked. 107 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 2: Benedict the sixteenth was only four, and that was quick, 108 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 2: and I thought, Okay, well, I guess it's a consensus pick, 109 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 2: probably someone like Parolan. I was at the offices of 110 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: the American Spectator when the news came out about one 111 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 2: o'clock in the afternoon Eastern and I go over to 112 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 2: the to watch on the computer screen and the proto 113 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 2: deacon comes out and says Robertum Franciscum, and I'm thinking, well, 114 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 2: Robert Sarah maybe right, Robert Sarah from the Cardinal from Africa. 115 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 2: And then they said pray Vost and I was stunned. 116 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 2: I was completely speechless. And if you watch the crowd, 117 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 2: the crowd was speechless. I mean they had been this raucous, 118 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 2: crazy party like scene. When the white smoke went up, 119 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 2: everybody fled the gelato stands and the and the espresso 120 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 2: bars in Rome, and all went to the piazza and 121 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 2: Saint Peter's Square and everybody suddenly they're checking their cell phones. 122 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 2: Who is this? Who is this? And I immediately got 123 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 2: interview requests from CNN, Newsmax, other sources. I said, I'm sorry, 124 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 2: I'm not coming on. I don't know anything about this guy. 125 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 2: I don't know. I am stunned. So it was, Yes, 126 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 2: it was a shock, and I a. 127 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: Lot, I said spoken. I I'm always familiar with his 128 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: background before that. Was he someone that was talked about 129 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: as a contender. I'm not sure or was he kind 130 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: of was it totally random when he fought. 131 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 2: It seemed totally random. However, what we now know, and 132 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 2: I lay all of this out in the book, is 133 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 2: that the first round of balancing, all right, he was 134 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 2: one of the top three. The leader seemed to be Erdo, 135 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 2: who was the conservative from Hungary. And the reports are 136 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: and this is supposed to be secret, right, They're not 137 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 2: supposed to talk about how many votes people got, but 138 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 2: Italian journalists and other sources came up with this information. 139 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 2: Erdo had twenty five votes, Parolan had twenty four, and 140 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 2: Prevost had twenty five. All of a sudden. With that, 141 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 2: everybody thought, okay, the Conservatives have made a good showing, right, 142 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 2: they've got aer Doo Parolans in the top three. But 143 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: it became clear that Parolan's cap was about forty nine 144 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: and there were one hundred and eight all together, one 145 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty three cardinal electors, so you needed eighty 146 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 2: nine votes to be elected in Hope. Right, So once 147 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: Pravos got all those votes in the opening round, everybody thought, oh, well, 148 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 2: you know this is one guy that kind of everybody likes. Right. 149 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 2: Conservatives would be okay with this guy. Liberals would be 150 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 2: okay with him. And also, don't let anybody tell you 151 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 2: that this is a continuation of Francis. That's nonsense. Right. 152 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 2: Everybody was tired of the chaos and division under Francis. 153 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 2: They wanted a guy who was going to be moderate 154 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 2: and temperament right, who wasn't going to be forty thousand 155 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 2: feet in the air and a plane over Europe, right, 156 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 2: seemingly changing church doctrine over two thousand years are questioning it. 157 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,359 Speaker 2: So once it became clear that Pravos was a contender, 158 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 2: he just took off and according to reports, again it 159 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 2: is supposed to be secret, right, But he got one 160 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 2: hundred and eight votes out of one hundred and thirty three, 161 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: so in the end it was a landslide, and he 162 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 2: became the kind of runaway consensus candidate that everybody figured 163 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 2: that they could rally around. 164 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: Interesting. Do you think that it was you were saying 165 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: there was kind of like people didn't want the same 166 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: They wanted a different temperament, maybe someone who was kind 167 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: of more maybe a little more calm, more non confrontational. Maybe. 168 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: Do you think they felt like they kind of were 169 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: drawn to that in him? 170 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 2: No question. And his very first word from the loggio 171 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 2: was quite literally peace okay, and he said, so he 172 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 2: comes out, he'd probably remember watching this, right. He walks down. 173 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 2: Everybody's like, whoa, look at this? Right? It was interesting, 174 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 2: kind of looked like a pope, right, And he puts 175 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: his hands pensively under his chin. He's trying to think 176 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 2: of what to say. By the way, when Francis came 177 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 2: out in the evening, he had a deer in the headlights, 178 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 2: look right, and he says, Fretalie Cirelli, right, Brothers and sisters, Bona, Sarah, 179 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 2: good evening. It doesn't really seem like he didn't really 180 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 2: even know what to say. In fact, he didn't have 181 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 2: written remarks or anything. This guy, and this is typical 182 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 2: of Robert Francis Prevost. He really thought careful about what 183 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 2: he wanted to say, and he even had a text 184 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 2: written out right, which takes you don't have a lot 185 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 2: of time to prepare a text. But he comes out 186 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 2: and he says in Italian, la pace sia contuti voi 187 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 2: peace be with all of you. And I remember hearing 188 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 2: the British woman do the translation, and she kind of 189 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,599 Speaker 2: laughed with a sigh of relief, just like peace be 190 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 2: with all of you, right, because everybody at that point thought, yeah, 191 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 2: what we need now is just peace. We don't need 192 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 2: everybody in the church at each other's throats. Francis spent 193 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 2: over ten years with a war on traditionalists, and Francis's 194 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: opening statement used the word piece zero. The opening statement 195 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: from Pravos Leo the fourteenth he used the word peace 196 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 2: ten times, and even right now in the Middle East. 197 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 2: So this guy talking about peace all the time. What 198 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 2: pope should do anyway, But that really is kind of 199 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 2: that's been the word of his papacy quite literally, from 200 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 2: the very first word out of his mouth pace. 201 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 1: Wow, do you think that And obviously, you know this 202 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: is not like saying that the people the cardinals made 203 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: it happen, because you know it's God ordained. But do 204 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: you think that the people felt like, Okay, we were 205 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: on this one track and there was a little bit 206 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to say that he was maybe more 207 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: similar to Obama, but maybe just a little bit more 208 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: of a figure that was I think, used a little 209 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: more language that might be more appealing to the liberal 210 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: side of the Catholic the Catholics. And then maybe not 211 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: that Lee as a conservative counterpart answer, but maybe someone 212 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: who's not even so much an opposite, but like you said, 213 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: maybe someone who's maybe more peace maybe more toning down 214 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: the partisan sides of the two sides. Maybe they felt like, 215 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: we need someone who's going to kind of bring everybody 216 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: together and focus more on unity, not as much dialing 217 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: up the the internal internal conflict. 218 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 2: No, it's well said. Really the other word is unity, 219 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 2: and he's used the word unity constantly, and Francis would 220 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 2: talk about unity by ways the typical like what an 221 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 2: American liberal does, right, you talk about diversity and inclusion, 222 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 2: and then of course you go after the people you 223 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 2: don't like and exclude them. Right, you talk about unity, 224 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 2: but you provide disunity. But with this guy, it really 225 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 2: does seem to be unity. And he is I mean 226 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 2: in terms of you'd have to call it. You have 227 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 2: to call Leo a conservative. I mean, anybody who's the 228 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 2: head of the Roman Catholic Church, which who faithfully follows 229 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 2: the magisterium of the Church, is going to be you know, 230 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 2: to use hot buttoned social moral issues in the United States. 231 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 2: Against gender ideology, which even Pope France is called demonic 232 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: by the way, against abortion, even France has said, you know, 233 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 2: having an abortion is like hiring a hitman. So Prevost 234 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 2: is against all of that. He's against same sex marriage, right. 235 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 2: He's a traditionalist. And by the way, he's a Republican 236 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 2: from what we can tell. So he voted in the 237 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 2: Illinois Republican primaries consistently every two years, and I lay 238 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 2: that out in the book. He's never voted in the 239 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 2: Democrat primaries. I can't tell you that I have a 240 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 2: Republican voter registration card, but he clearly seems to be 241 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 2: a Republican. His brother, by the way, is one of 242 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 2: his two brothers, is a big you know, Trump, Maga 243 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 2: Republican and came right out and said all of it. 244 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 2: So this is this is not a liberal. But on 245 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 2: the other hand, it's somebody that liberals in the church, 246 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 2: including liberal American cardinals, said I know this guy. I 247 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 2: like this guy. He's got a good temperament, and this 248 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 2: is somebody who's not going to cause chaos, right, And 249 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 2: at this point, everybody again was tired of the mess 250 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 2: and chaos and confusion, division and disunity that had prevailed 251 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 2: under Francis. 252 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe you've can tell us a little bit about 253 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: where you see things going with the Latin mass because 254 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: I think there was Francis who was kind of like, no, 255 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: can't really have this anymore, not wanting that as much, 256 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure where that stands now. 257 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's already called off the war against traditionalists, and 258 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 2: Francis used such incendiary, shocking language from a pope right, 259 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 2: referring to traditionalists as white, white and sepulchers, right, you know, 260 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 2: all clean on the inside, rotten, greedy, wicked on the outside. 261 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: He actually use language like that. His tradition on his 262 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 2: custodies and here too is typical of like what America 263 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 2: leftists would do the encyclical tradition traditionalist custodis, which means 264 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 2: guardians of tradition, right, instead goes after the Latin mass, right, 265 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 2: goes after traditionalists, right, all in the name of course 266 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 2: of guardian tradition. Right. So but with this guy Pravo's 267 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 2: and we saw this from the very first day one 268 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 2: of his papacy. He's doing all these traditional things, and 269 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 2: he's using Latin, and he speaks Latin. In his opening 270 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 2: statement he spoke Italian and Latin and a little bit 271 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 2: of Spanish, which was kind of like a shout out 272 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 2: to his home diocese at that point in Peru. So 273 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 2: he's definitely going to he's a traditionalist. It's clear he's 274 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: calling off the war against traditionalists, and he's doing it in 275 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 2: a way where he doesn't go out and make any 276 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 2: dramatic announcements or anything, just kind of quietly, steadily doing 277 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 2: this in a way that frankly a pope ought to operate. 278 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: Okay, do you think that like the mood right now 279 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: or maybe Catholics is okay, maybe less internal conflict, but 280 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: do you think they see that there's kind of external 281 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: conflict because or like external external forces, because we have, 282 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: of course, the rise of gender ideology, transgenderism, which I'm 283 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: sure hopefully most Catholics will be against, and then we 284 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: have radical Islam, And so do you think they kind 285 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: of view it as Okay, maybe we need to focus 286 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: on just like all being unified because we have these 287 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: outside dangers. 288 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they're already unified under this new pope. 289 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 2: We're now about a year in and at first there 290 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 2: was you know, a lot of trepidation, right, people were apprehensive, 291 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 2: but you know, is this guy going to be more 292 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 2: of Pope Francis? And in fact, of the one hundred 293 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: and thirty five cardinal electors that existed at the moment 294 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 2: of Francis's death, two couldn't make it to the conclave, 295 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 2: so one hundred and thirty three voted, but the vast 296 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 2: majority had been chosen by Francis. So everybody thought, oh, 297 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 2: we're going to get Francis too. But even a lot 298 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 2: of those guys were so tired of the mess that 299 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 2: they went for Prevosts instead. But American Catholics, then, I think, 300 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 2: at first thought, oh, well, Francis picked eighty percent of 301 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 2: the conclave, We're going to get another Francis. And so 302 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 2: there was that fear right away, but I think they're 303 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 2: pretty quickly dissipated, and now almost a year in, I 304 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 2: think they're pretty satisfied with this guy. He hasn't done 305 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 2: anything that has upset them. Whereas you know, Francis by 306 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 2: this point, or at least halfway through his papacy, had 307 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 2: thrown them into just this tail spin, right, they didn't 308 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 2: know what to believe. So I think they're already feeling 309 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 2: better about the direction of the church under this new vote. 310 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: Okay, you recently noted Pope Leo has addressed the use 311 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: of AI among Greece. I didn't really know much about this, 312 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: but how does that fit with technological challenge is being 313 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: faced by the church? Can priest do that? Is that 314 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: it's not a normal thing. I don't know what they 315 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: would even be using it for, right, Yeah. 316 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 2: Great question. In fact, our policy of the American Spectator 317 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 2: is you can use AI to help edit your piece, 318 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 2: smooth things over, but not to generate content, right. I mean, 319 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 2: your ideas have to be yours, right, your first draft 320 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 2: has to be yours. You can't use AI to help writing. 321 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 2: And I think that's probably the position of the Pope 322 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 2: with priests and homilies, right, he said, don't use AI 323 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 2: to generate a homily. I mean to generate a homily 324 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 2: a sermon. You're supposed to be praying to the Holy 325 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,239 Speaker 2: Spirit to lead you, not chat GBT, Right, That's not 326 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 2: the way you do That's not the way you do 327 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 2: these things. Of course. I mean it's as easy, though, 328 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 2: to look up a fact and type it in and 329 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 2: you'll get it chat GBT or whatever factual information. I 330 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 2: think that's okay, right, although you have to check it 331 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 2: and make sure that the information, but you can't use 332 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 2: it to have the creative content in your article, in 333 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 2: your homily whatever. Very very interesting. People wonder why he 334 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 2: picked the name Leo the fourteenth, he said the very 335 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 2: next day after he was chosen, he said, I'm thinking 336 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 2: of Leo the thirteenth. I'm thinking of his classic Wareham Novarum, 337 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 2: which meant of New Things, the Great and Cyclical from 338 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 2: eighteen ninety one, and that was issued at the time 339 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 2: because the Pope was worried about new technologies in the 340 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 2: Industrial Revolution displacing workers. Right, so you got all of 341 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 2: a sudden mechanized whatever, assembly lines replacing people, machines replacing people, 342 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 2: and Leo the fourteenth, who's a mathematician. He actually majored 343 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 2: in math at Villanova. He's very concerned about AI now 344 00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 2: replacing people. And if AI replaces people, then you know, 345 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 2: people are going to lose jobs, just like they lost 346 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 2: jobs at the end of the nineteenth century under Poplio 347 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,719 Speaker 2: the thirteenth. 348 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: Yes, totally makes sense. Paul Ai is something new that 349 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: we have to think about in that sense. Do you 350 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: think that as we look forward, what are some other 351 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: kind of challenges that you firsesee, perhaps Leo or the 352 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: Church just having to take on because of our modern age, 353 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: could be because of technology, or just things that we 354 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: have to kind of be aware of. Is there something 355 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: that you think maybe his kind of tenure as pope 356 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: will be seen as maybe a certain certain thing that 357 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: we need to focus on, or do you think it's 358 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,199 Speaker 1: any any issue in particular that jumps out to you? 359 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 2: Well, I think what's going to jump out in addition 360 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 2: to what I read talked about with with with unity 361 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 2: and healing the church and you know, ending the chaos 362 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 2: and confusion. 363 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: I'd have to. 364 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 2: Say that first word piece right because right now, with 365 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 2: what's going on in the Middle East and with you know, 366 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 2: with the Rand and Israel in the United States, and 367 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 2: even with what happened with Maduro and Venezuela, Russia and Ukraine. 368 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 2: I mean, China is always a constant issue. We're even 369 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 2: talking right now about Cuba, right, which no one more 370 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 2: than me would love to see communists taken out in Cuba, right. 371 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 2: But in all of these things, So this is this 372 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 2: is a kind of increasingly war ravage time. And so 373 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 2: for somebody who came out preaching peace quite literally ten 374 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: times in his first statement from the Loggia May eight, 375 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, I think he's the right man for 376 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 2: the job on that issue. I don't know. I mean, 377 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 2: right now, I'm talking to you, it's Lent, it's around 378 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 2: Easter time. You know, who knows where this is going 379 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 2: to go? And I know that I often see this, right, 380 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 2: some American conservatives and conservative Catholics will say, why does 381 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 2: the pope seem to be opposing you know, Donald Trump 382 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 2: or whatever. Look, it's the Pope's job to talk about peace, right. 383 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 2: I mean, as he said in his opening statement Leo 384 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 2: the fourteenth, the first words of Jesus to the apostles 385 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 2: after he had risen again was peace be with all 386 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 2: of you, and Peter at that moment is thinking to himself, well, 387 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 2: the last time that he saw me, I denied him 388 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 2: three times. Right here I am in the upper room 389 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 2: with all of these other apostles. I'm really gonna get 390 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 2: reamed out. Right, this ghost just walked in. But what 391 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 2: does he say to him? Instead? He says peace? Right, 392 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 2: peace be with all of you. And that's such a 393 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 2: calm word, right, and peace really is among other things, right, 394 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 2: it's a lack of disharmony. Right, it's not just about 395 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 2: the end of war, but about having peace in your 396 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 2: own life. It's common prayer for me all the time, 397 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 2: right with me and my family. So we just have peace, 398 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 2: we just have happiness. So I think that that's going 399 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 2: to continue to be the dominant theme word of his papacy. 400 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, well, thank you so much, Paul. I appreciate 401 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: your time. Make sure to check out Paul's book. Paul 402 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: is an amazing author, fascinating read to really dive into 403 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: just everything going on with Hope Leo. It's called American 404 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: Pontiff Pope Leo the fourteenth and his plan to heal 405 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: the Church. So thanks so much, Paul. 406 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 2: Thanks Danielle take care, good at talk to you again. 407 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: Well, that wraps up today's show. If you enjoyed the show, 408 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: make sure to find me on social media. I am 409 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: Danielle Desusa Gill on all the platforms. I'm on Facebook, Instagram, 410 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: ex True Social. Make sure to like and subscribe to 411 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 1: the podcast on Apple, Spotify, You to rumble all the places. 412 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: Thank you, See you next time.