Speaker 1: Welcome to today's podcast sponsored by Hillsdale College All Things
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Speaker 1: at q for Hillsdale dot com or just Google, Apple,
Speaker 1: iTunes and Hilldale. Welcome back, America. I'm you, Hewitt, so
Speaker 1: please to welcome back. Aviv Rettig Gore. Aviv is the
Speaker 1: Middle East correspondent for The Free Press. He's also the
Speaker 1: host of Ask Aviv Anything. I'm a member of his
Speaker 1: Patreon community. I recommend that you become that because it's
Speaker 1: really some of the smartest conversations in the world. Ask
Speaker 1: Aviv Anything podcast is completely for you. I don't miss
Speaker 1: an episode.
Speaker 2: Haveviv. How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm good.
Speaker 2: I'm good.
Speaker 3: How are you, Hugh?
Speaker 2: I'm good.
Speaker 1: I greatly enjoyed the interview with Jonah Platt, though I
Speaker 1: did not know who he was until you sat down
Speaker 1: with him. I was a little bit amused because Jonah's
Speaker 1: despairing that there isn't enough great Jewish content in Hollywood
Speaker 1: is like every conversation I've had with an evangelical Christian
Speaker 1: for the last thirty years I lived in Hollywood, saying
Speaker 1: we don't have enough evangelical You know, Hollywood makes what sells.
Speaker 1: I thought it was very interesting, but I also thought
Speaker 1: you rebuked him. You people are going to argue, this
Speaker 1: is the most privileged set of Jews in world history,
Speaker 1: and you're going to be upset.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, there isn't enough of the Jewish experience in Hollywood.
Speaker 3: The Jews kind of in America are too easy to
Speaker 3: I think, in my opinion, are too easy.
Speaker 2: They're too quick.
Speaker 3: To dismiss themselves, dismiss their experience, seed the ground to
Speaker 3: everybody else. And I don't think that's very different from
Speaker 3: Evangelicals and from Catholics and from other faith groups. By
Speaker 3: the way, religion is hugely popular when Hollywood actually goes
Speaker 3: around gets around to doing it. Look at Steven Spielberg's
Speaker 3: Prince of Egypt. These are things that kids remember all
Speaker 3: their lives. And so it's a shame that the stories
Speaker 3: of these groups, minorities not so minorities, aren't aren't told
Speaker 3: in Hollywood. Hollywood's not producing all that great stuff lately.
Speaker 4: I mean, no.
Speaker 3: Offense to the MCU, but what the heck is the
Speaker 3: MCU You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I'm with you because I used to be
Speaker 1: a two movie a week guy, and now I've turned seventy.
Speaker 1: I would be a three movie a week guy if
Speaker 1: I had the time. But there are any movies, so
Speaker 1: we're not aviv. I have two serious questions and then
Speaker 1: some big questions. First one, I just don't know. It's
Speaker 1: about Gaza. Prior to the nineteen sixty seven war, was
Speaker 1: Gaza considered the people who lived there? Were they considered
Speaker 1: to be part of the Egyptian tribe writ large.
Speaker 3: No, they're They're different from Egyptians. They don't share Egyptian
Speaker 3: national identity, which is very very cohesive. Egyptians have a
Speaker 3: whole story about themselves as being you know that that
Speaker 3: group of people who come from ancient Egypt through Hellenistic
Speaker 3: Egypt and Gozins are not part of that story. They
Speaker 3: very very much were either considered themselves local local tribes,
Speaker 3: local people living in conjunits or Gazza city or whatever,
Speaker 3: or Palestinian.
Speaker 1: Did the identity as Palestinians arise in recent decades because
Speaker 1: I remember Napoleon carrying out a massacre in Gaza which
Speaker 1: is horrific. So Gaza has been there a very long time.
Speaker 1: What was was there identity with the other native peoples
Speaker 1: of the land after the Jews had been forced out.
Speaker 3: So I mean identity is a funny story. Okay, Arabs
Speaker 3: living under Ottoman rule for four one hundred years thought
Speaker 3: of themselves as Ottomans, even if the term refers kind
Speaker 3: of to Turks. But the eats of Gaza, the elites
Speaker 3: of Jerusalem, the elites of Jaffa, the Arab Muslim elites
Speaker 3: were diplomats of the Ottoman Empire in France, you know,
Speaker 3: they they were part of the system. They saw themselves
Speaker 3: as Muslim before anything else. But Gazza as an ancient heritage,
Speaker 3: that's Christian, that's Jewish. There's some important Jewish mystics that
Speaker 3: lived and worked and published in Gaza. And so whether
Speaker 3: they consider themselves a different period's more Muslim or Arab
Speaker 3: or This word Palestinian really comes to be used around
Speaker 3: World War One to identify a specific group of people
Speaker 3: in the modern national sense that, by the way, is
Speaker 3: not in the rasure of their identity. Germans didn't call
Speaker 3: themselves Germans until there was a political union under Bismarck
Speaker 3: in eighteen seventy as part of a war with France.
Speaker 3: You know, these nations come into being in the modern
Speaker 3: sense a particular moment in history. So these identities are complicated,
Speaker 3: they're layered. But one thing Gozins have never been is Egyptian.
Speaker 3: And the reason you're asking that question, it's a good question,
Speaker 3: is that Gaza was ruled by Egypt and kind of
Speaker 3: claimed by and dominated by Egypt until sixty seven, and Jordan,
Speaker 3: of course ruled in that time the West Bank, Jordan
Speaker 3: called it, gave it that name, the West Bank.
Speaker 2: Live in Jordan.
Speaker 3: It's the other side of the river. It's the west
Speaker 3: bank of the river, and Jordan annexed it, claimed it's
Speaker 3: Jordan gave them citizenship in Jordan, and Palestinian elites gathered
Speaker 3: in the famous Jericho Conference to confirm their Jordainian ness.
Speaker 3: And so identity is in flux. It's complicated, but there's
Speaker 3: still Palestinians in the simple sense that they're their own people.
Speaker 3: They're an Arab people, a Muslim people. By and large,
Speaker 3: there are almost no Christians left among Palestinians. There are
Speaker 3: within Israel, among Palestinian Israelis Israeli Arabs, but they're declining
Speaker 3: in the West Bank and Gaza, and they're not us,
Speaker 3: they're someone else, and so they're two people.
Speaker 1: I hope at some point you devote and ask Aviv
Speaker 1: anything to the history of Gaza, because you know your
Speaker 1: history and you find good experts. And all I know
Speaker 1: are little episodes and even the I'm an empire I
Speaker 1: could use some education on. It's just not something I'm
Speaker 1: familiar with. Second big question that's specific the Heredom, the
Speaker 1: ultra Orthodox. Do they believe that their prayer work upholds
Speaker 1: the state of Israel's foundations?
Speaker 3: The Old Orthodox are a diverse group of people. The
Speaker 3: Hassidic and what they call them Ysnagge or the Lithuanian
Speaker 3: are non Hasidic.
Speaker 2: They're not sort of.
Speaker 3: Spiritualists in the same way. They're very different groups. Among
Speaker 3: the Hassidic groups, there are a lot of different sects
Speaker 3: and divides, and sometimes they work together and sometimes they
Speaker 3: hate each other. It's big and complicated and different, and
Speaker 3: all of that's just the Ashkenazi Horeadium. There's also the
Speaker 3: Safardi Colaradium, and all of them have different answers to
Speaker 3: these questions. What they do genuinely and authentically believe all
Speaker 3: of them. By definition, that's who they are, is that
Speaker 3: they are the survival of the Jews, because they are
Speaker 3: the most stringent bearers of the bookshelf, of the Jewish bookshelf,
Speaker 3: from the Torah itself, the revelation and everything that proceeded
Speaker 3: from it over the millennia. And so they do see
Speaker 3: themselves as the carriers of Jewishness and Judaism, and therefore
Speaker 3: anything that endangers their ability to study Torah as a
Speaker 3: profession full time majority of the men endangers Jews and
Speaker 3: Jewishness strategically over the long arc of Jewish history. And
Speaker 3: that's why they should sit and study all day and
Speaker 3: not serve in a military.
Speaker 2: I should say.
Speaker 3: That that's a new idea. That is a new idea.
Speaker 3: Until the seventies, the horeadium of Israel served in the military.
Speaker 3: They lost soldiers in the forties, and it's also grown
Speaker 3: to become these just astonishingly huge numbers. The founding of
Speaker 3: the State of Israel, four hundred young men got exemptions
Speaker 3: to go study Torah in the same way that a
Speaker 3: couple hundred athletes and very great artists. Because if you
Speaker 3: take somebody who's an extremely who was extraordinary at something,
Speaker 3: whether it's sports or arts or tourist study, and you
Speaker 3: take them three years into military service, they're going to
Speaker 3: lose a great deal of what it is that they
Speaker 3: contribute and what it is that they can give. And
Speaker 3: so there are these exemptions for extraordinary people to the military.
Speaker 3: It was four hundred students at the time. Today it's
Speaker 3: tens of thousands in every cohort.
Speaker 2: And so it's just.
Speaker 3: Become a ridiculous, you know, draft dodging by a population
Speaker 3: that relies on a special welfare state because half the
Speaker 3: men refuse to work as a cultural choice, never mind
Speaker 3: military service, they also don't work, and so it's it's
Speaker 3: it's gone way. It's no longer seriously a religious debate.
Speaker 3: This isn't actually about religion.
Speaker 2: It's the exactly inject there.
Speaker 1: I listened to you, I listened to Yoshi kleinel Avy
Speaker 1: and Donille Hartman. I listened to Michael Oran, I listened
Speaker 1: to Dan Senor with his guests. Nobody gives the Haridam
Speaker 1: the time of day to their argument. And what I'm
Speaker 1: asking is, do they have an argument based either on
Speaker 1: their preservation Jewish Jewishness or upon their appeal to Hashem
Speaker 1: to protect the state. Do they have an argument whether
Speaker 1: or not it's correct? But do they have an argument
Speaker 1: they claim?
Speaker 3: They claim. I don't think they themselves take it seriously.
Speaker 3: They claim that because they study, is there a win's wars?
Speaker 3: And the reason I don't think they take it seriously
Speaker 3: is that Jewish law says the opposite. If you sit
Speaker 3: and study when we need you at war, when it's
Speaker 3: a command a war of commandment, a defensive war, a
Speaker 3: war that's legal in Jewish law. You can't just have
Speaker 3: random aggressive wars, but you can have defensive wars. And
Speaker 3: when there is a defensive war, you are required to
Speaker 3: go fight that war. That's not something you're And there
Speaker 3: are all these laws in Jewish law about how if
Speaker 3: you can work but refuse to work and go study,
Speaker 3: only study and live off other people's money. My monot
Speaker 3: thees rules that that's a that's a kind of a crime.
Speaker 3: I think it calls it an abomination. They they make
Speaker 3: these claims, but they only make them politically. I don't
Speaker 3: take it seriously. What are they in their own view?
Speaker 3: How did this actually come about? Sort of in the
Speaker 3: sympathetic version of this the Holocaust is the basic story.
Speaker 3: This is still an aftershock of the Holocaust. Everybody when
Speaker 3: they think of the Holocaust in the West, thinks of
Speaker 3: Anne Frank, or thinks of, you know, people who look
Speaker 3: like Westerners. But in fact, eighty five percent of the
Speaker 3: Jews killed in the Holocaust were Yiddish speakers. They didn't
Speaker 3: look like Anne Frank. They looked like the Galician Jews
Speaker 3: of the Hungarian you know, rural provinces. They looked Haredi.
Speaker 3: And the Kardi religious world was wiped out, was destroyed,
Speaker 3: was erased in the Holocaust. And the primordial fundamental impulse
Speaker 3: of Horadi society at the beginning of the state of
Speaker 3: Israel literally in the late forties, was to rebuild what
Speaker 3: had been lost. And so they set about building these
Speaker 3: very tight knit communities and institutions and have this in
Speaker 3: culture that everything depends on them, having the kids teaching
Speaker 3: the Torah, rebuilding the institutions and the cultural you know.
Speaker 3: And and they were in that sense, rekindling the fire
Speaker 3: that was destroyed. I mean, you know, the Allies remember
Speaker 3: winning World War Two, the Jews remember losing World War Two.
Speaker 3: The Nazis won their war against the Jews, the Jewish
Speaker 3: European Jewish civilization was wiped out. It is no longer there.
Speaker 3: It doesn't exist anymore. That the thousand year Yiddish civilization
Speaker 3: is gone. And what the Harideem in Israel and also
Speaker 3: a little bit in the US, but not quite in
Speaker 3: the same sense of urgency, what the Haredim in Israel
Speaker 3: have basically tried to do for seventy seven years is
Speaker 3: rebuild what was lost. Here's the thing they've done that
Speaker 3: they've done that. Above and beyond that, one of the
Speaker 3: finest and greatest yeshivas of the Houridi world, the seminaries,
Speaker 3: religious seminaris of the Hoidi world, is the Mir Yeshiva,
Speaker 3: which is now in Jerusalem. It used to be in
Speaker 3: a town called Mir in what is today Belarus, Mir
Speaker 3: and Belarus. At it's this is one of the great
Speaker 3: yeshivas of tours study in history. At its height it
Speaker 3: had four hundred students a year. The Mere Yeshiva in
Speaker 3: Jerusalem today has five thousand, and it is in elite.
Speaker 3: It is the harvard of the Haredi world. And so
Speaker 3: they have rebuilt massively. And the questions that are now
Speaker 3: arising about the welfare state, about military service is because
Speaker 3: they're thirteen percent of the population. We can no longer
Speaker 3: afford to have half their men not work. It's the
Speaker 3: questions we face now are banal the big giant, traumatic,
Speaker 3: beautiful thing that they did, the restoration of what was
Speaker 3: last that's over successfully, they've done it, and now we
Speaker 3: have just sort of simple questions of how we live
Speaker 3: together to answer, and they're not really equipped for that debate.
Speaker 3: So they're still saying things like we're the only reason
Speaker 3: there will be Jews left, you know, and like okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: we get it, and you know you've built it out
Speaker 3: and thank God and hello, and you're part of us
Speaker 3: and you're our brothers. Now we have to talk about
Speaker 3: this welfare state that you built around yourself that's unaffordable.
Speaker 1: That is the most sympathetic and actually understandable explanation to
Speaker 1: a gentile in the West, and I thank you for it.
Speaker 1: Did they not have anyone out there making these arguments.
Speaker 3: Israelis generally barely have the cultural ability to explain themselves
Speaker 3: because they have a culture that says, you know, you
Speaker 3: don't stand in judgment before the world, you don't excuse
Speaker 3: your existence, and Haredine have an extreme version of that.
Speaker 3: They barely explain themselves to other Israeli Jews.
Speaker 1: Never mind, Okay, all right, now I have my hard questions.
Speaker 1: I have to give an address. I'm looking forward to
Speaker 1: giving an address at a Christian college in about a month,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to talk about the obligation of Christian
Speaker 1: colleges and Christian kids. These are the anti Semitism and
Speaker 1: anti Zionism. And I know from decades of talks with
Speaker 1: Dennis Praeger the difference between anti shpe and anti Semitism
Speaker 1: and anti Zionism is overstated, and that the latter is
Speaker 1: often a cover for the former. But when I want
Speaker 1: to ask you, because you're independent of the American experience
Speaker 1: except for your ears in Wisconsin, when do you understand
Speaker 1: in human history anti Semitism to have begotten?
Speaker 3: This is a debate. You know, there's anti Semitism in
Speaker 3: ancient Egypt because there were some Jews in ancient Egypt
Speaker 3: who came in from Judea and had a slightly different religion,
Speaker 3: and some of the Egyptian priests were very upset about it,
Speaker 3: and they wrote bad things about them. Anti Semitism, as
Speaker 3: we understand it, the Western phenomenon that we're talking about.
Speaker 3: Not just everyone in all of human history didn't like
Speaker 3: the religion next door. That's not what we're talking about.
Speaker 3: The specific idea that the Jews stands in the way
Speaker 3: of the redemption of the world. I think, as far
Speaker 3: as I can tell from the great professors I have read,
Speaker 3: this is not my obviously original scholarship. Anything begins in
Speaker 3: a subset of early Christianity, and it's a subset of
Speaker 3: early Christianity that's grappling with a real big problem. And
Speaker 3: the problem is Christ came to fulfill the redemptive arc
Speaker 3: of the Jews and to spread that you know, that flame,
Speaker 3: spread that light to the world, and the Jews, at
Speaker 3: the heart of that story won't accept it, won't believe it.
Speaker 3: And that was a gaping lacuna that was experienced by again,
Speaker 3: not everyone, probably not most, but some, and justin Martyr
Speaker 3: and Saint Augustine and not insignificant Christian thinkers and theologians
Speaker 3: and leaders over the centuries. That was experienced as a
Speaker 3: genuinely profound attack on Christianity, the Jews refusal to accept Christ.
Speaker 3: And Augustine writes explicitly the Jews he has this witness
Speaker 3: theory of what Jews are, where he says the Jews
Speaker 3: have to remain oppressed for all time. I'm paraphrasing, but
Speaker 3: people can look this up as a message to my people,
Speaker 3: to Christians, they fail to accept Christ, and therefore they
Speaker 3: will be oppressed for all time. When Crusaders murdered the
Speaker 3: Jews in the cities of the Rhine on their way
Speaker 3: to the Holy Land, they left, we have diaries of
Speaker 3: bishops who saved Jews in various cities who explained what
Speaker 3: the Crusaders who were murdering Jews were saying. And what
Speaker 3: they were saying was, we are the new Israel. We
Speaker 3: superseded you, and you refuse to accept Christ, and therefore
Speaker 3: you are preventing even this is not, you know, some
Speaker 3: kind of Catholic dogma, but this is something that has
Speaker 3: been said to Jews routinely throughout Christian Jewish relations. We
Speaker 3: superseded you, and you are preventing the coming of Christ,
Speaker 3: the return of Christ by refusing to accept Christ. And
Speaker 3: so that's the heart of it. That's the core of it.
Speaker 3: And this positioning of the Jew as the thing standing
Speaker 3: in the way of redemption is what marks secularizes the
Speaker 3: jew becomes you know, he has this whole vision of
Speaker 3: class war and of capital. Well, the Jew becomes the
Speaker 3: distillation the perfect capitalist and overclass and manipulative and not landed,
Speaker 3: and the Jew is the thing standing in the way
Speaker 3: of redemption. And Hitler, of course, the Jew is the
Speaker 3: great threat to the folk. And because they're internationalist or something,
Speaker 3: and so everyone, by the way, on today's university campus,
Speaker 3: for some reason, Israel is the distillation of all imperialism
Speaker 3: and all colonialism and all the sins of the West
Speaker 3: in all of the Western history. And if you can
Speaker 3: project all those sins onto Israel, you are now on
Speaker 3: the right side of history. And that self hatred of
Speaker 3: the West projected onto Israel allows you to suddenly be
Speaker 3: okay with yourself. And so Israel is the worst thing
Speaker 3: in the world. Even if literally five hundred miles away
Speaker 3: there's a worse war with four times the death toll
Speaker 3: of Gaza, that doesn't matter, because that's not telling me
Speaker 3: a story about myself. The Jews stand in the way
Speaker 3: of redemption for all these different people, and it begins
Speaker 3: in that problem of the Jews not accepting Christ among
Speaker 3: that subset of early Christians.
Speaker 1: Now I'm a post Vatican two Catholic, so John Paul
Speaker 1: the Second and Benedict did a lot of expiation for
Speaker 1: anti Semitism in the Catholic Church. That work went a
Speaker 1: little bit backwards with Francis, but I'm hoping Leo picks
Speaker 1: it up again. But that is to me, I'm just
Speaker 1: a secular supporter of Israel, not a Catholic supporter of Israel,
Speaker 1: but a secular American saying there are greatest ally in
Speaker 1: the world. I would like to know when does anti
Speaker 1: Semitism spring up? I mean, when does anti Zionism spring
Speaker 1: up as a very poor but nevertheless often turn to
Speaker 1: substitute for anti Semitism. I think Antizionism is just anti
Speaker 1: Semitism with a Z instead of an S.
Speaker 2: But when did that happen?
Speaker 3: Just to simplify, because you know it's pompl there are
Speaker 3: some Jewish anti Zionists whose complaint about Zionism is that
Speaker 3: there's a certain vision of how the Messianic age is
Speaker 3: to come about. The Jews all come to the land. Well,
Speaker 3: if they come to the land early, they delay that
Speaker 3: Messianic return. And that's for example, the sotmar Hacidim of
Speaker 3: New York believe that that is not bigotry. That is
Speaker 3: a literally internal to the Jewish bookshelf, a theological debate
Speaker 3: about the nature of history. That's that's something we can
Speaker 3: set aside. There's all kinds of anti Zionisms, but the
Speaker 3: anti Zionism we're talking about, the ideological anti Zionism, really
Speaker 3: is this projection that I was talking about. It begins
Speaker 3: in the sixties, especially after the sixty seven War, where
Speaker 3: the Soviets had built up these vast Arab armies, and
Speaker 3: these Arab armies were decimated by little Israel, and it
Speaker 3: wasn't even in Israel, supported by the United States. Yet
Speaker 3: it was in Israel fighting with you know, not very
Speaker 3: good French weapons, and it wins this spectacular, spectacular victory.
Speaker 3: And so the Soviets turn probably the most enormous, expensive
Speaker 3: and competent and successful propaganda machine ever developed in the
Speaker 3: history of the world. They spent billions upon billions on
Speaker 3: developing these vast propaganda networks through trade unions and student
Speaker 3: unions all over the non aligned world, all over the
Speaker 3: Third World, and they built out Zionology departments they called it,
Speaker 3: at these universities in Moscow that they invited the elites
Speaker 3: of all of the Third World to study at and
Speaker 3: the point of Zionology. The study of Zionism wasn't to
Speaker 3: study Zionism.
Speaker 2: In any way.
Speaker 3: It was to transform this image of this jew this
Speaker 3: thing that had defeated Soviet designs to push America out
Speaker 3: of the Middle East by defeating those Arab armies, or
Speaker 3: to push the West out of the Middle East by
Speaker 3: defeating those Arab armies. To turn it into the most
Speaker 3: evil thing that ever was, and so to frame these
Speaker 3: refugee people who survived only by you know, through solid
Speaker 3: darity and gunction, into the distillation of all the evils
Speaker 3: of imperialism and colonialism and every Western evil, capitalist sin.
Speaker 3: And that propaganda machine today is basically the vocabulary on
Speaker 3: campus in the entirety of the West about Zionism. And
Speaker 3: so it has its origins in that Soviet propaganda world,
Speaker 3: but it really it's psychologically important for the West's progressive elites.
Speaker 3: It's Zoron Mumdani, for example, Zoran Mumdani repeatedly said on
Speaker 3: panels over the last five years when he was talking
Speaker 3: about defunding the NYPD, he said the NYPD learned to
Speaker 3: abuse the minorities from the IDF. He was talking about
Speaker 3: some kind of exchange program of twenty cops a year.
Speaker 3: The NYPD has exchange programs with Singapore and Qatar and
Speaker 3: Amman Jordan. It has an actual permanent office in Jordan
Speaker 3: at Mexico, where there's thousands of extra judicial killings by police.
Speaker 3: But for some reason, Mamdani thought that the thirty four
Speaker 3: thousand officers of the NYPD, when they abuse a minority
Speaker 3: person in New York, which happens sometimes, he literally would
Speaker 3: have this favorite line of his. He would say on panels,
Speaker 3: I've seen these videos. He would say, the NYPD abuses
Speaker 3: minorities or whatever. And then he would say, and the
Speaker 3: IDEF laced its boots. And it's this idea that how
Speaker 3: could a twenty cop a year exchange program where they learn,
Speaker 3: among other things, how to police multi ethnic areas, which
Speaker 3: the Israel police has pretty a lot of experience in,
Speaker 3: among other things, tactics for hostage situations. How could those
Speaker 3: twenty cops come back to the thirty four thousand strong
Speaker 3: NYPD and.
Speaker 2: Teach them how to abuse.
Speaker 3: I mean, do American police really need the Israelis in
Speaker 3: principle to know that they can fail to serve minorities properly.
Speaker 3: Back in the whole idea of positioning Israel as the
Speaker 3: distillation of whatever the evil is that you perceive, that's
Speaker 3: anti Semitism perfectly, that's the structure, that's the purpose of antisemitism,
Speaker 3: and it's now applied to Israel in ways that are
Speaker 3: totally intellectually incoherent. He can't defend that with numbers and data,
Speaker 3: but he said it on pen I.
Speaker 1: Started when I preparing my remarks. I'm about halfway through
Speaker 1: just with the math. They're only fifteen million Jews on
Speaker 1: a globe full of eight point seven billion people. And
Speaker 1: it's astonishing what anti Semites fall for because it's so stupid,
Speaker 1: but it's nevertheless real. Now I want to I want
Speaker 1: to ask you to do some homework for me here
Speaker 1: and give me a start. I listened to Brett Stevens
Speaker 1: State of World World Jewry address where he said anti
Speaker 1: Semitism comes from resentment, simmered in envy, and I think
Speaker 1: he made a lot of sense. But his admonitions was
Speaker 1: to the Jewish community to stop worrying about anti Semitism
Speaker 1: and start building up Jewish day schools in the Jewish
Speaker 1: thick culture, and that made sense. What I want to
Speaker 1: ask you I forgot to thank you, by the way,
Speaker 1: for Dan Shifton, who turned out to be a brilliant
Speaker 1: gash and much beloved by my audience. Thank you for that.
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to ask you to do my work
Speaker 1: for me. What ought Christian colleges to do about this
Speaker 1: anti Semitism problem which is everywhere and getting bigger.
Speaker 3: Look, there is a real and serious and honest disagreement
Speaker 3: between Christians and Jews about the meaning of some of
Speaker 3: the most fundamental prophecies that produce both are religions. And
Speaker 3: that's an honest and legitimate religious and theological disagreement. And
Speaker 3: as you said, you know, there had been popes who
Speaker 3: hold you know, sometimes kicking and screaming, but not really
Speaker 3: kicking and screaming. By the time nostrae Tante came around,
Speaker 3: by the time the Catholic Church really wanted to distance
Speaker 3: itself from the sections of its history that talked about
Speaker 3: superseding the Jews and also the standing in the way
Speaker 3: of redemption and all of that, most Catholics really were there.
Speaker 3: I mean, Christianity isn't anti semitic anymore, and just fundamentally
Speaker 3: the vast, vast majority. But when somebody wants to be
Speaker 3: anti Semitic, they can still you know, a drop a
Speaker 3: bucket into that well and pull it out because it's
Speaker 3: still there in the in the you know background. What
Speaker 3: do they need to know about this issue?
Speaker 2: Just learn the people.
Speaker 3: That's my answer for everything. Jews are a lot less
Speaker 3: than the anti semi imagines. They're ordinary people, They're unbelievably ordinary.
Speaker 3: They are a millennia old conversation, and if you learn
Speaker 3: something about that conversation, you will immunize yourself to a
Speaker 3: lot of the insane stories about them and a lot
Speaker 3: of the insane conspiracy theories about them. We keep hearing
Speaker 3: that we control everything. And one of the running jokes
Speaker 3: among Jews, just constantly among Jewish people, Jewish comedians, Jewish press, is,
Speaker 3: you know, if we control the media, why is the
Speaker 3: media so set against us?
Speaker 2: And we control the world.
Speaker 3: Does that mean that if we just had eighty years
Speaker 3: of the most prosperous and happy and safe period in
Speaker 3: human history, the Jews get the credit for that, not most.
Speaker 2: Yes, that makes sense.
Speaker 3: The only other you know, and I had somebody, a
Speaker 3: pretty famous American asked me because they heard from Nick
Speaker 3: Flintes that Jews wanted to lead mass immigration into America.
Speaker 3: It was Jewish organizations, Jewish activists like Highest, which is
Speaker 3: a Jewish you know, refugee agency, a Jewish immigration advocacy agency.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to say a single word for or against.
Speaker 3: I don't actually understand this topic.
Speaker 4: In American politics.
Speaker 3: But there is this progressive Jewish organization that works on
Speaker 3: these issues. But all the mainline Christian churches supported basically
Speaker 3: the core of the Democratic Party's immigration policy. You have
Speaker 3: the biggest, vastest mainline churches of America pushing it, But
Speaker 3: this small Jewish organization is the reason it happened. It's
Speaker 3: a way of ducking responsibility. Societies that turn anti Semitic fail.
Speaker 3: Why do they fail because they can no longer perceive
Speaker 3: responsibility and accountability properly. The Arab world is in collapse,
Speaker 3: it's in free fall. It has incompetent governments. The most
Speaker 3: anti submitted of them are the go to Algeria and
Speaker 3: Hugh has these amazing polls and anti Semitism in places
Speaker 3: like Algeria, vast vast anti Sunday. They think about Jews
Speaker 3: all the time. There hasn't been a Jew in Algeria
Speaker 3: since the nineteen sixties. But they constantly obsess about Jews.
Speaker 2: Well guess what.
Speaker 3: They also don't run their country all that well. So
Speaker 3: this is not a good place for a country, a
Speaker 3: good you know, path for a country to take, and
Speaker 3: it's not a Christian path for a country to take.
Speaker 3: It's not what I understand Christianity to be as an outsider,
Speaker 3: and not what the popes have understood Christianity to be.
Speaker 1: No, you're right, and that's the point I want to make.
Speaker 1: I just think that your recommendation got to know some
Speaker 1: Jews is a good one because and also get to
Speaker 1: know the lunacy of anti Semitism, because it is lunatic
Speaker 1: and it doesn't hold up to even five seconds of
Speaker 1: serious thought. It belongs to dumb people and two people
Speaker 1: who are making a buck. They're two kinds of anti Semis,
Speaker 1: those are as stupid and those who are making a buck.
Speaker 1: And into those two camps they shall all fall heavy.
Speaker 1: That's all the time I have for it today. But
Speaker 1: you've been an immense help to me on a bunch
Speaker 1: of questions I lined up. I will talk to you,
Speaker 1: hopefully in a couple of months after Iran is at
Speaker 1: least closer to being free. I didn't ask you any
Speaker 1: about Iran because nobody knows anyth about I ran right now.
Speaker 1: But I appreciate the time today. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for it.
Speaker 3: Thanks you.
Speaker 1: With Ambassador Michael Waltz, our ambassador to the United Nations,
Speaker 1: fresh from Munich, where the United States has seemed to
Speaker 1: win every other round. We won when he spoke, Ambassador Waltz,
Speaker 1: when Ambassador Whittaker was on the round table with AOC
Speaker 1: and Governor Whitmer, and when, of course Marco Rubio gave
Speaker 1: his speech, and then we lost whenever AOC or Whittmer
Speaker 1: or Gavin talk. Mister ambassador, welcome home. That was a
Speaker 1: really schizophrenic experience.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, next year I'll get on the panel
Speaker 5: with AOC and Whitmer, because frankly, it was a pretty
Speaker 5: low bar.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not even fair, mister ambassador. I have three
Speaker 1: things to touch to you about. The first of it
Speaker 1: is the Gouse of Peace deal.
Speaker 2: You got that.
Speaker 1: Through the Security Council, the Trump Peace Plan. My hat
Speaker 1: is off to you for that. I didn't think it
Speaker 1: would get through. What happens if Amasu is not disarmed.
Speaker 5: Well, not only did we get it through to you,
Speaker 5: we got it through unanimously. And you know, President Trump
Speaker 5: loves to keep score. And the fact that his peace
Speaker 5: plan was endorsed by the international community thirteen to zero
Speaker 5: was truly significant on probably the most contentious issue there
Speaker 5: is for the UN, which is Israel Palestine. And I
Speaker 5: was reminding in Munich all of our European friends that
Speaker 5: this wasn't invented out of whole cloth by President Trump.
Speaker 5: The UN Security Council endorsed it, including the UK and
Speaker 5: France and Denmark and other countries that were on And
Speaker 5: what does it do? It Number one, creates an international
Speaker 5: security force, which the Indonesians have announced publicly eight thousand
Speaker 5: troops they pledged. It creates a Palestinian technocratic authority, and
Speaker 5: it creates a World Bank Fund. And I think you'll
Speaker 5: see next week the President's already previewed at for the
Speaker 5: first board of.
Speaker 6: Piece meeting five billion dollars.
Speaker 5: So what you saw was a lot of hand ringing
Speaker 5: from the Europeans.
Speaker 6: Are you replacing the UN?
Speaker 5: Are you doing creating an alternative?
Speaker 6: Well, you know what the President's doing.
Speaker 5: He's creating something that's working when nothing else has worked.
Speaker 6: It's not guaranteed to that it will get us the
Speaker 6: full distance.
Speaker 5: But the hostages are out, the ceasefires in place, the
Speaker 5: humanitarian aid is flowing, and we're about to go to
Speaker 5: round two.
Speaker 6: To what you're talking about is Hamas.
Speaker 5: We've made it clear they either are going to disarm
Speaker 5: the hard way or the easy way.
Speaker 6: Let's hope they choose the hard way.
Speaker 5: And what significant you from a diplomatic standpoint, is on
Speaker 5: the boarder piece or all of the countries that Hamas
Speaker 5: usually relies on to.
Speaker 6: Help it out of a jam.
Speaker 5: It relied on Cutter, It's relied on Turkey, it's relied
Speaker 5: on Egypt. Well you know what, all of those countries
Speaker 5: are on the boarder piece singing the same tune as
Speaker 5: the United States and Israel is on too. I mean,
Speaker 5: what a diplomatic feat that only President Trump could pull off.
Speaker 1: Now, if it works, it will be extraordinary. But I
Speaker 1: don't believe the Indonesians are going to deploy if Hamas
Speaker 1: is not disarmed. Is that your understanding, mister ambassador.
Speaker 6: Well, those conversations are still ongoing.
Speaker 5: There's still a lot to do besides walking down the
Speaker 5: street and taking a rifle out of Hamas's arms. There's
Speaker 5: demining unexploded ordnance, clearing debris, creating shelter for the Palestinians,
Speaker 5: defending humanitarian aid from getting stolen and diverted.
Speaker 6: So there's a lot that needs to be done.
Speaker 5: And our message over and over again is you've got
Speaker 5: three choices.
Speaker 6: You either have Hamas staying in.
Speaker 5: Charge, endless occupation by the idea, or a third way
Speaker 5: that may be unconventional, never tried before. Again, it's not guaranteed,
Speaker 5: but it is a hell of a lot better chance
Speaker 5: of working than those other two alternatives.
Speaker 1: It's an extraordinary achievement. My head is off to now.
Speaker 1: I want to turn to Iran. Snap back sanctions from
Speaker 1: the United Nations went into effect in September. They are
Speaker 1: helping cripple the Iranian.
Speaker 5: Me.
Speaker 1: Is there any effort underway to undermine those sanctions, as
Speaker 1: that would be a disaster.
Speaker 6: Uh, there is to a degree.
Speaker 5: The both the Russians and to a lesser extent, the
Speaker 5: Chinese are saying that they weren't snapped back properly in
Speaker 5: accordance with you in procedure. But look to the UN's
Speaker 5: credit for a change their legal office. You know the
Speaker 5: UN kind of infrastructure, saying no, it was done properly.
Speaker 6: The snapback sanctions.
Speaker 5: Are in place and you will be violating those sanctions
Speaker 5: if you do business with the Iranian regime. So look,
Speaker 5: this is one of those few when I get asked,
Speaker 5: as I'm sure you do all the time, what the
Speaker 5: heck do we need the UN for? What good is
Speaker 5: it done? Well, we just talked about Gaza. I don't
Speaker 5: want US troops there. We're going to have an international
Speaker 5: force there. Uh, you know, we're doing things like Haiti
Speaker 5: or Sudan that need to be dealt with.
Speaker 6: But again, burden sharing is a part of America.
Speaker 5: First, let's have UN member nations deal with those kinds
Speaker 5: of flicks. And then you just mentioned snapback when the
Speaker 5: United States decided it was a bad deal, that the
Speaker 5: Iran deal was a bad deal for the world, and
Speaker 5: we reimpose sanctions.
Speaker 6: Now we have a mechanism through the UN to bring
Speaker 6: the rest of the world with us.
Speaker 5: And that the regime is feeling it in their wallet.
Speaker 5: The thing they care about the most is their money.
Speaker 5: The IRGC controls forty to fifty percent of the Iranian
Speaker 5: economy and it is there in bad shape all.
Speaker 2: Around, mister Ambasser.
Speaker 1: In December, retired Admiral Bill McGavin was my guest talking
Speaker 1: about his book on being Prepared for Crisis and he
Speaker 1: helps seze Iraqi oil tanker in the Indian Ocean pursuing
Speaker 1: two UN resolution prior to Desert Storm.
Speaker 2: First I rock invasion.
Speaker 1: Does the United States and other allies have the authority
Speaker 1: under the UN sanctions to seize the Iranian ghost fleet?
Speaker 6: Look?
Speaker 5: I believe that we do under those sanctions. Of course
Speaker 5: that's disputed by others. I think the UN could be
Speaker 5: doing a lot more writ large about the ghost fleet issue,
Speaker 5: whether it's Venezuela, Iran, Russia or otherwise. And at the
Speaker 5: end of the day, when you're talking about over one
Speaker 5: thousand unregistered ships out there using different flags, oftentimes there's
Speaker 5: kind of horrific stories about the crews being used as
Speaker 5: forced laver.
Speaker 6: There's all kinds of pollution.
Speaker 5: Issues in addition to the fact that they're just blatantly
Speaker 5: violating sanctions. There's more we could do in the insurance
Speaker 5: industry from an ownership standpoint, from a sanction standpoint, and
Speaker 5: there's these organizations like the International Maritime Organization out of
Speaker 5: London under the UN umbrella that's supposed to be enforcing
Speaker 5: all of these issues. So my point to not only
Speaker 5: the UN, but to the Europeans and other action should
Speaker 5: have been taken a long time ago under the Biden administration. Thankfully,
Speaker 5: President Trump is taking action and not just sending strongly
Speaker 5: worded letters. And the Venezuelans felt it, the Iranians are
Speaker 5: feeling it.
Speaker 6: I think there's a lot more that canon should be done.
Speaker 1: So I want to end, mister ambassador by telling you
Speaker 1: about the presentation that the President and you arranged about
Speaker 1: Iran where you brought in Iranian dissonance to speak directly
Speaker 1: to Iran. It was powerful. Her testimony, his testimony was
Speaker 1: I thought, lacerating of the Iranian Islamic regime.
Speaker 2: Has the UN remained.
Speaker 1: Fixed on the thirty five to forty thousand people murdered
Speaker 1: by the regime in January?
Speaker 5: Yeah, the numbers that were briefed to that meeting from
Speaker 5: the UN, that was verified by a number of NGOs
Speaker 5: and infrastructure on the ground was eighteen regardless, it is horrific.
Speaker 5: It was a wholesale, at scale massacre from the regime
Speaker 5: of its own people. And to your point, again in
Speaker 5: the bucket of kind of where can the UN do good?
Speaker 5: It's a platform that reaches the entire world, and we
Speaker 5: received a volume of feedback that it was reaching every village,
Speaker 5: every city, and really kind of stiffened the spine of
Speaker 5: the resistance as they were being just wholesale massacred. When
Speaker 5: we hosted a forum at the UN Security Council with
Speaker 5: Masa Alina John who was almost assassinated three times on
Speaker 5: US soil and imprisoned herself, and a gentleman who was
Speaker 5: tortured in Iranian prison for nine years, and to hear
Speaker 5: their voices and to hear the international community saying we're
Speaker 5: not going to stand for this, we are going to
Speaker 5: stand for the freedom and the basic rights of the
Speaker 5: Iranian people was incredibly powerful.
Speaker 1: So, mister Ambassador at very hard. President Trump has once
Speaker 1: again achieved strategic confusion. It's better than strategic ambiguity. No
Speaker 1: one has any idea what's going to happen when when
Speaker 1: is there a window on Iran capitulating to all of
Speaker 1: our demands closed?
Speaker 2: What's your understanding of when that window closes?
Speaker 6: Well, I'm not going to.
Speaker 5: Get ahead of the President, Hugh and kind of boxing
Speaker 5: that or certainly advertising his decision space.
Speaker 6: But you know, it's the greatest military in the world.
Speaker 5: We can project around the world anytime, anywhere. Obviously there's
Speaker 5: been a convergence of forces, but if the President decides
Speaker 5: to keep that for the foreseeable future, we have the capability.
Speaker 6: That's you know, what the Defense Department does is present
Speaker 6: him options, and he's presented a very clear option to the.
Speaker 5: Iranians step forward and step up to finally walk away
Speaker 5: from enrichment, to walk away from long range ballistic missiles,
Speaker 5: from to walk away from its terraced proxies, and don't
Speaker 5: slaughter your own people. These shouldn't be anything near controversial
Speaker 5: for any type of reasonable government that seeks to get
Speaker 5: along with the with its neighbors and with the international community.
Speaker 6: And I think he's demonstrated the or else means something,
Speaker 6: So we'll see what they decide.
Speaker 2: I hope the or else is real. And thank you
Speaker 2: for joining the minister, Ambassador. Always a pleasure, Ambassador.
Speaker 1: Michael Wall of the United States representative the United Nations
Speaker 1: and doing a fabulous job there.
Speaker 2: Thank you, mister ambassador. I'll be right back walking back
Speaker 2: to America.
Speaker 1: I'm Hugh Hewett joined now by Ambassador Michael arn formerly
Speaker 1: is Reel's ambassador to the United States, also former Deputy minister.
Speaker 1: In an earlier netting out who government doctor or in
Speaker 1: good Monday to you, what do you hear about Iran
Speaker 1: right now?
Speaker 7: I think Israel's gearing up, you know, this is gearing
Speaker 7: up for what they see as a likelyghood.
Speaker 4: I can't stress it more than a likelihood.
Speaker 7: It's something less than a probability of American kinetic action
Speaker 7: against Iran. It seems at this point that there's not
Speaker 7: a lot to talk about these negotiations between the Iran
Speaker 7: and the United States.
Speaker 4: Iran wants to whittle the terms of reference to.
Speaker 7: The nuclear program. No, talk about ballistic missiles. No, certainly,
Speaker 7: don't talk about support for terrorist organizations. And then at
Speaker 7: least and beyond and even then whittling down the nuclear issue.
Speaker 4: They're not talking about giving up in any way.
Speaker 7: The so called right of return had a return that
Speaker 7: was recognized by the Bomb administration. They're talking about maybe
Speaker 7: freezing the enrichment process and perhaps exporting the enriched uranium
Speaker 7: they have already.
Speaker 4: That's about four hundred and fifty kilograms of enrich ranium.
Speaker 7: That's physsile material can be made into a bomb to
Speaker 7: a third country, perhaps Russia. I can't speak for the president,
Speaker 7: but that is so marginally, marginally better perhaps than what
Speaker 7: the JCPOA was. In twenty fifteen, remember when we started
Speaker 7: having high talk negotiations with the United States at that
Speaker 7: time very secretive about the Iround nuclear program. There was
Speaker 7: a notion of freeze the freeze, that the United States
Speaker 7: would freeze sanctions against Iran in return for freezing the
Speaker 7: enrichment process. Sound familiar, Yep. That was about twenty eleven.
Speaker 7: So we haven't moved beyond that. I don't know if
Speaker 7: that would be remotely susceptible to this administration. I ardently
Speaker 7: hope that it will not, And if that's the case,
Speaker 7: then the military option becomes almost unavoidable.
Speaker 1: So doctor Arnt, you study this a lot more closely
Speaker 1: than I do. The United States has got probably at
Speaker 1: least one of its Columbia class submarines that can fire
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty Tomahawk missills off. They've got hundreds
Speaker 1: of airplanes on the carrier and in the surrounding regions,
Speaker 1: and destroyers all have missile capability as well as well.
Speaker 1: It's defensive capability combined with Israel, can they deal a
Speaker 1: devastating blow to the missile delivery system before anything else begins.
Speaker 4: They can't, They can't. No, it's very hard to find launchers.
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 4: My frame of reference is now forty years old.
Speaker 7: It's from the First Gulf War when Saddam Hussein was
Speaker 7: fighting scud missiles at US from launchers in the western
Speaker 7: Iraqi desert. We couldn't find them. The United States couldn't
Speaker 7: find them. Now, certainly technology has advanced, you know, light
Speaker 7: years since then, but it still may be difficult to
Speaker 7: find launchers that are underground. Look how the difficulties we
Speaker 7: had finding launchers in.
Speaker 4: Gaza again and again. These people are finding rockets in
Speaker 4: downtown Tel Aviv.
Speaker 7: It's only an hour away by car, and we had
Speaker 7: trouble finding the launchers because they're underground and they sort
Speaker 7: of lift up, they fired the rocket and then you
Speaker 7: know they're underground again and they're camouflaged.
Speaker 4: So it's very difficult to find them.
Speaker 7: And yes, Iran may have an arsenal of upwards of
Speaker 7: two thousands of these very heavy ballistic missiles, each carrying
Speaker 7: many hundreds of pounds of TNT of explosives, but.
Speaker 4: They only have a limited number of launchers.
Speaker 7: And which you want to do is hit the launchers
Speaker 7: even before you hit the missiles. It's finding them. It's
Speaker 7: finding them that's going to be the big challenge. And
Speaker 7: to do that you may have to see where one
Speaker 7: gets fired and then see where that you know that
Speaker 7: flash goes off, and hit it again.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 7: I'm not up to date on the actual technology of
Speaker 7: loking locating me. I know the technology of locating tunnels,
Speaker 7: but not of launchers.
Speaker 1: And if there's a first right now, if there's a
Speaker 1: first strike, do you think the United States and Israel
Speaker 1: combined could do serious damage to the tentacles of repression
Speaker 1: that have slaughtered the Iranian people and keep them down.
Speaker 7: I think that's a bigger that's acts strangely enough, counterintuitively,
Speaker 7: that's a that's a higher bar.
Speaker 4: And I'll explain why you can get the missile launchers.
Speaker 7: Perhaps you know we have penetrated Iran's intelligence.
Speaker 4: We knew an awful lot about Iran.
Speaker 7: Where they're their scientists were sleeping, where their commanders were sleeping.
Speaker 7: My guesses we know at the location of a certain
Speaker 7: number of these launchers, But the means of oppression at
Speaker 7: the hands of the Iranic regime is not something can
Speaker 7: necessarily be bombed. We're talking about the IRGC, which has
Speaker 7: about half a million men under arms. You have the
Speaker 7: army itself, there's about a half million people under arms,
Speaker 7: and then you have the besiege. These are these thugs,
Speaker 7: and the numbers of the besiege arrange for about two million,
Speaker 7: upwards of five million people.
Speaker 4: You can't bomb them. And all they need, all they
Speaker 4: need is a machine gun.
Speaker 7: All they need is an AK four to seven to
Speaker 7: take down groups of protesters. They don't need ballistic missiles,
Speaker 7: they don't need a nuclear program. And the hope is,
Speaker 7: and again it's an art and hope here that once
Speaker 7: the United States and Israel begins to weaken this regime
Speaker 7: to an extent that it's almost emasculated, that the people
Speaker 7: will rise up again. And the people, whether the people
Speaker 7: of your own, will take on the besiege, they'll take
Speaker 7: on the thugs, they'll take on the IRGC, and that's
Speaker 7: what will bring the regime down.
Speaker 1: And a last comment, doctor, I think they're out of money.
Speaker 1: I mean literally out of money. They're not able to
Speaker 1: ship ghost fleet oil will seize their tankers, the UN
Speaker 1: snap back sanctions or in place. Ambassador Walsh has told
Speaker 1: me that they might have a pipeline or two through Azerberjean,
Speaker 1: but they're out of money. When does the regime collapse
Speaker 1: when it's out of money?
Speaker 7: Well, I think certainly that that imposing a naval blockade
Speaker 7: on Iran, which by the way, under his Assa law
Speaker 7: is an act of war.
Speaker 4: A naval blockade they're already in war.
Speaker 7: If that's the case, would be very I think, very
Speaker 7: prudent at this point and put tremendous, tremendous pressure, perhaps
Speaker 7: even more pressure than a massive first strike.
Speaker 4: It's possible that that's what would bring the regime down
Speaker 4: to his knees.
Speaker 1: And what do you expect would follow the capitulation or
Speaker 1: murder of the Iatola and his molocracy.
Speaker 7: Well, I think that we don't know what comes next.
Speaker 7: We don't know who would take over power. Could be
Speaker 7: probably something from the IRGC. The IRGC person could be
Speaker 7: less practical and could be more radical and may think, oh,
Speaker 7: this is not going to happen to us again. The
Speaker 7: first thing I'm gonna do breakout and create a nuclear weapons.
Speaker 7: So nobody dares, dude, nearly tries us again. We're going
Speaker 7: to become the North Korea of the Middle East. And
Speaker 7: that's always been a consideration of the Iranian regime. They
Speaker 7: wanted a nuclear weapon for many reasons. It was a
Speaker 7: matter of pride.
Speaker 4: They'll say that the Indians have one, the pack of
Speaker 4: Standis have one.
Speaker 7: They'll say that the Jews have one. How is it
Speaker 7: that sites don't have one? But the major reason is
Speaker 7: you know that Saddam Husein got invaded by the United
Speaker 7: States because he didn't.
Speaker 4: Have a nuclear weapon. Libya mar Maar Kadafi was overthrown
Speaker 4: because he didn't have a nuclear weapon.
Speaker 7: If we have a nuclear weapon, we won't be Libya,
Speaker 7: we won't be Iraq, we will be North Korea.
Speaker 1: I Sir, hope that we act before then. And doctor
Speaker 1: Gorn thirty second, is the mood in Israel tense?
Speaker 4: The Moon says was tense.
Speaker 7: But I've never seen attension like this before. I only
Speaker 7: can called that hearken back to the weeks before the
Speaker 7: nineteen sixty seven work, when Israeli mothers went out to
Speaker 7: protests against the government to tail the government wasn't going
Speaker 7: to war.
Speaker 4: I haven't seen it since then. Taring me about this
Speaker 4: using Focus against War and every Days Ready.
Speaker 7: I talk to him for everybody in my family, and
Speaker 7: it's kind of less the sensive to say, we.
Speaker 4: Know what the price is, we know what the dangers are,
Speaker 4: but we.
Speaker 1: Need this for what we really need this, want it
Speaker 1: now and bestor Mike Lawn thank you as always, I
Speaker 1: appreciate the time.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned in America. Hi, it's you, Hewett. You've heard me.
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Speaker 2: Welcome back to America.
Speaker 1: I'm Hugh Hewett. That, of course, a very familiar song
Speaker 1: to people my generation. Not sure Bethany Mandel has ever
Speaker 1: heard it before. I play it because it is pouring
Speaker 1: in California. Have you ever heard that? Bethany.
Speaker 8: As soon as he started playing it, I was like,
Speaker 8: what am I walking into?
Speaker 1: Because Harry the late Great Harry Chapin and his Cat's Cradle.
Speaker 1: I would recommend it strongly to you.
Speaker 2: I think, taxi? What's what's that? Taxi?
Speaker 1: He only had two songs Cat's Cradle and Taxi. But
Speaker 1: I recommend that wrong, Bethany, I've seen you at a
Speaker 1: John and Rasic conference concert. What is your music outside
Speaker 1: of John and Drawsic?
Speaker 8: So Seth has has named it alt country. I think
Speaker 8: that's that's what he calls it. I'm looking at him
Speaker 8: as he's sitting on the yes, he's nodding alt country.
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know what that is, but I'll find out.
Speaker 1: Do you know that Matt Continetti came up with a
Speaker 1: nickname for Prime Minister at Taka She who's very anti China,
Speaker 1: but he's very thatcher like. Matt calls her the Iron
Speaker 1: Maiden because she was a drummer in a punk rock
Speaker 1: group like Iron Maiden was.
Speaker 2: Isn't that nifty?
Speaker 8: That's amazing? I love it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope she's the Iron Maiden, Bethany. What do
Speaker 1: you think is gonna happen with Iron?
Speaker 8: What do I think is gonna happen with Ron? I?
Speaker 8: You know, I don't know. It's been a month since
Speaker 8: we were saying, you know, President Trump said help is
Speaker 8: on the way, and help has not come, and so
Speaker 8: I'm loath to make any sort of prognostications. I will
Speaker 8: say that the Trump Nettunahou meeting was very quiet. Netanyah
Speaker 8: who came here and we didn't really hear a peep.
Speaker 8: There was like one photo of him in Blair House
Speaker 8: with Marco Ruby, and that was kind of it. So
Speaker 8: my radar goes off a little bit on that. I
Speaker 8: think it's a little sus I haven't checked the pizza
Speaker 8: numbers around the Pentagon recently, but I think that help
Speaker 8: might still be on the way. Maybe that's just me
Speaker 8: being hopeful.
Speaker 1: I do too, because I think if it doesn't arrive,
Speaker 1: it will be a shadow over his presidency, but if
Speaker 1: it does, it will be a great triumph.
Speaker 2: When he posted.
Speaker 1: The posts, they talked to me, and he talked to
Speaker 1: Sean Hannity, talked to a bunch of people about the
Speaker 1: Iranian people marching. I think he was trying to protect
Speaker 1: them from the regime, but the regime didn't care.
Speaker 2: They murdered him anyway.
Speaker 1: So I just don't think Trump lets that go by.
Speaker 1: It's not very trumpy and to ignore that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, if I were to guess, I have heard from
Speaker 8: people inside Israel, and you have a lot of the
Speaker 8: same sources that I do. If I were to guess
Speaker 8: I would think that maybe the Israelis are going to
Speaker 8: do something in the Americans are going to provide back up.
Speaker 8: That's my best guess as to what might happen. And
Speaker 8: that was sort of maybe the purpose of the meeting
Speaker 8: that we just saw over the week the last weekend
Speaker 8: with a Finnishiyahu.
Speaker 1: It was a three hour meeting. I also point out
Speaker 1: a three hour tour like Gillian's Island. Now let me
Speaker 1: turn to my homework. I just had a vive ready Guron,
Speaker 1: and I asked him to come on because I had
Speaker 1: to prepare. I'm giving a speech at a Christian college
Speaker 1: next month, and I'm going to make the speech about
Speaker 1: the obligation of Christian colleges and their students specifically to
Speaker 1: combat anti Semitism, Why and how to do it?
Speaker 2: What do you think are the why and how to
Speaker 2: do it?
Speaker 8: So it's interesting. So I just was at the October
Speaker 8: seventh play at the Kennedy Center last month and there
Speaker 8: was a huge contingent behind me of Regent University School
Speaker 8: students along with former Representative Michelle Bachman. She brought them
Speaker 8: and she said it very plainly. You know, we are
Speaker 8: brothers and sisters and you know, it is our obligation
Speaker 8: as faithful Christians to defend the Jewish people. And I
Speaker 8: think that's that's a strong understanding of faith in a
Speaker 8: way that I'm not seeing from a lot of sort
Speaker 8: of newcomers to especially Catholicism, like Carrie Prejan, who was
Speaker 8: the former Miss California who turned the Religious Liberty Commission
Speaker 8: into a laughing stock. She just converted a couple of
Speaker 8: months ago, and all of a sudden, she's proclaiming that
Speaker 8: them to be a Zionist.
Speaker 1: I'm a practicing Catholic. That was deeply embarrassing. She has
Speaker 1: no idea what she's talking about. It was a slander
Speaker 1: on the Catholic Church. I just got done talking to
Speaker 1: Heavy John Paul, the second Benedict went to great lengths
Speaker 1: to repudiate anti Semitism in the church. Historically, there's a
Speaker 1: lot to repudiate there. But she pops up Bolaga Jack
Speaker 1: in the box out of nowhere. And I want to know,
Speaker 1: and no one's done the report who put her on
Speaker 1: the commission?
Speaker 8: Yeah, no, that is that is a good question. She
Speaker 8: doesn't seem to have a basic understanding of Catholicism, and
Speaker 8: and that's the case with a lot of these antisemitic
Speaker 8: and you know they call themselves anti Zionist, but these influencers,
Speaker 8: they don't have a really basic understanding of what their
Speaker 8: faith Truish teaches in a lot of areas. And so
Speaker 8: I think it's important to you know, when you're speaking
Speaker 8: to students, to just explain to them be well read
Speaker 8: on everything, not just as relates to to Jews and
Speaker 8: anti Semitism, but it all, it all is in the
Speaker 8: under the same umbrella of you have to be literate
Speaker 8: in your faith.
Speaker 2: Being a community follows you have to be literate. Unlike aoc.
Speaker 8: Yes who thought that cowboys didn't come from saying that
Speaker 8: was what she said.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm about a man.
Speaker 8: It's embarrassing.
Speaker 1: It what's very embarrassing now bethe back to the college kids.
Speaker 1: I don't make a theological argument, as as some evangelical
Speaker 1: Christians do, that that the end times are upon us
Speaker 1: in Israel.
Speaker 2: That's not for me.
Speaker 1: I defend Israel as a secular ally of the United States,
Speaker 1: and I defend Jews as a Catholic who thinks all
Speaker 1: human beings have human rights. But I'm curious, do you
Speaker 1: think they have a special obligation, given the history of
Speaker 1: anti Semitism in the church to do special things.
Speaker 8: Why are you asking the laps to Catholic turned you
Speaker 8: that question. There's no right way I could possibly answer
Speaker 8: that question. You might not walk into that trap.
Speaker 2: Now, Danny Silva was ahead of you.
Speaker 8: I am not walking into that. Everyone should do with
Speaker 8: their heart and their faith leader thinks they should do.
Speaker 2: You know what have ev answered?
Speaker 1: He answered, get to know some Jews. I mean, it
Speaker 1: was pretty quick to saying make a visit to Israel.
Speaker 1: But he didn't go all Israeli tourism board. But he
Speaker 1: might have done that. Don't you think that helps?
Speaker 8: I mean, I certainly think it helps. I mean people
Speaker 8: of all faiths should go to Israel. It's a really cool,
Speaker 8: interesting place with so much amazing history and biblical everything whatever.
Speaker 8: And you know, being a good person inevitably often follows.
Speaker 1: Did you listen to Brett Stevens State of World Jewelry
Speaker 1: speech at.
Speaker 8: The ninety second Street Why it was amazing And he
Speaker 8: was right.
Speaker 1: On he said, and I said, anti Semitism is birthed
Speaker 1: in resentment, stewed in envy.
Speaker 2: Perfect.
Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely perfect, and there's there's no fighting it so
Speaker 8: don't even try. The Jews should just live their lives
Speaker 8: and raise and educate as many Jews as possible, and
Speaker 8: stop apologizing for ourselves.
Speaker 2: I agree. Now.
Speaker 1: The other part of it is, though I don't believe
Speaker 1: in calling attention to that lady or any other anti
Speaker 1: semit online.
Speaker 2: I don't use their names.
Speaker 1: I don't want to reply to them in posts. Do
Speaker 1: you believe I think I've got the right way to
Speaker 1: deal with which is to marginalize.
Speaker 2: What do you think?
Speaker 8: I don't know if I agree. I mean, when you
Speaker 8: think about sort of the biggest names right now out
Speaker 8: there that are spewing this. Candace Owens has one of
Speaker 8: the biggest podcasts in America, she has an audience. It's
Speaker 8: not meat platforming Candace Owens. It's you know, I wish
Speaker 8: it were the case that we could sort of starve
Speaker 8: them of oxygen, but that's I don't think that that's
Speaker 8: a reliable action plan right now.
Speaker 2: I think it will fade that because it's so intellectually thin.
Speaker 1: In fact, there's nothing there. It's not even thin, it's invisible.
Speaker 1: There's nothing there.
Speaker 8: So I have taken a lot of stupid people, though, I.
Speaker 1: Know, speaking of which did you see the President Obama
Speaker 1: interview this weekend.
Speaker 8: Yes I did.
Speaker 1: I'm going to spend the next hour and a half
Speaker 1: on that interview. Bethany Mandel, thank you. Follow her on exit,
Speaker 1: Bethany Shondart, and I'll look up All Country or whatever
Speaker 1: that is that you listen to. You listen to Harry Chaffin,
Speaker 1: Stay tuned in the middle