1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 2: Welcome to I Wish You Could Hear This, where we 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 2: explore great stories and simple, proven steps to help you 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 2: thrive in life, faith, and relationships. 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 3: In our research, we've heard hundreds of hopefield strategies for marriage, parenting, leadership, 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 3: and life that are grounded in science and consistent with 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 3: biblical truth, and now you can hear them too. 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 4: I'm Shanti Feldhun. 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: And I'm Jeff Felton. 10 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 2: For decades, it has been clear that boys and men 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 2: are struggling in our culture. In earlier years, we understandably 12 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,239 Speaker 2: focused on creating opportunities for girls and women, but the 13 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 2: pendulum has swung so far that girls now have advantages 14 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 2: in almost every arena of life. 15 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:50,959 Speaker 4: Today. 16 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 2: It is the boys and men who often need encouragement. 17 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 2: But thankfully, there are things any of us can do 18 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: to care for men and boys in our personal lives 19 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 2: and make a difference in our culture. That is what 20 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 2: we will be talking about on this episode of I 21 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 2: Wish You Could Hear This. 22 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 3: I am so glad that we're tackling this subject. This 23 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 3: is an issue that's been building for so many years 24 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 3: across education, work, mental health, and relationships, and it's impacted 25 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 3: so many men, and I don't know. I mean, i've 26 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 3: you and I have spent a fair bit of time 27 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 3: with young people, yes, a lot of young men, young women, 28 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:37,559 Speaker 3: and I gotta tell you, the young women feel very 29 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 3: purpose driven, feel very you know, at least the ones 30 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 3: that we're engaging with. And some of the young men 31 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 3: are trying. But it feels like I just don't know 32 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 3: what to do, where to go. 33 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 2: It feels like there's more hopefulness and movement in general 34 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 2: among young women than young men. 35 00:01:58,320 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 4: As a whole. 36 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: That's said it perfectly. 37 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I you know, it's interesting going all the way back. 38 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 2: Well it's only sixteen years ago, but I still remember 39 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 2: when there was this essay that was really groundbreaking at 40 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,519 Speaker 2: the time that Hannah Rosen wrote in The Atlantic. 41 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 4: It was twenty ten. 42 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 2: We'll put a link to the original article in the 43 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 2: show notes, and she wrote this essay called the End 44 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: of Men and basically surfaced and said in this mainstream 45 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 2: publication what parents and teachers had been noticing for years. 46 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 2: But it really wasn't kind of politically correct to say 47 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: that boys and men were falling behind, and maybe, hey, 48 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 2: maybe we need to focus on helping them, not just 49 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 2: girls or women, and there was this uproar. There were 50 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 2: so many people in the sort of broader culture who 51 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: were upset with her. 52 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, she was. She had her finger on something 53 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: her early. 54 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 3: I mean, there's now been a number of I think 55 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 3: of the Richard Reeve's book on Boys and Men, which 56 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 3: you know, a hugely popular book. But she was right. 57 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 3: And could you give us some stats on this stuff 58 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 3: so that we're all kind of on the same page 59 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 3: on what we're talking about here. 60 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a lot of different stats that we 61 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 2: could get to, and we'll probably just get to some 62 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 2: of them. 63 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: And that makes your heart so. 64 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: Well, And I know that our listeners, our followers appreciate 65 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 2: that as well, that this isn't just a matter of opinion. 66 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: But here's a few statistics. Now, these aren't even the 67 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: most egregious statistics. These are all just mainstream things that 68 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: probably everybody does need to know. So we'll put links, 69 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 2: by the way in the show notes, so you can 70 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 2: look at these stats for yourself, so you're not just 71 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: taking our word for it. So most important I think 72 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 2: that we start with is education. Some stats on education 73 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 2: at all levels of education, all the way from small 74 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 2: you know, elementary school, kids all the way up through college. 75 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 2: The end of a college degree, girls consistently are outperforming 76 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 2: boys in some of the basic things. So, for example, 77 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 2: basic reading skills. The government has for years and years 78 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 2: done statistics on reading because it is one of the 79 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 2: leading indicators of how a student is going to do 80 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 2: for the rest of their life. Really, and so they 81 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 2: I looked at the numbers, and they the way they 82 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 2: do it is they say fourth grade, eighth grade, and 83 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 2: twelfth grade reading levels, and at all levels, girls are 84 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: outperforming boys in basic reading skills, and the gap gets 85 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 2: worse as a student gets older. By the time that 86 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 2: a student gets to senior year, the gap between girls 87 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 2: and boys is almost fifty percent worse than it was 88 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 2: in the fourth grade. Now, some of this just in general, 89 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 2: this is not just reading, it's all sorts of things. 90 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 4: Is because of how the education. 91 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 2: System over the last fifty sixty seventy years has really 92 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: become designed for the way girls learn rather than the 93 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: way boys learn, which is sit still and listen. 94 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 3: Yeah. Now, I I mean, honestly, I'm thinking back to 95 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 3: when I was in elementary school and junior high I. 96 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: Did well in school. 97 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is not saying that every boy. 98 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 3: As I think of it, I was actually able to 99 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,679 Speaker 3: sit still and listen. Yeah, and it just it didn't 100 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 3: feel challenging to me. But for a lot of guys, 101 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 3: I mean, that just wasn't the case. And I just 102 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 3: thought that they were just rowdy or you know, they 103 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 3: couldn't control themselves. 104 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 4: Well, some of them probably, that's probably. 105 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: I couldn't name a few, but I won't. 106 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 3: But nevertheless, I mean, the system was kind of designed 107 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 3: for that, for people like you. Yeah, And it's almost 108 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 3: understandable in one way in that if you've got a 109 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 3: teacher and back in the day we had thirty kids 110 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 3: in a class, you really can accommodate lots of different learning. 111 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 2: Right, exactly like you wish you could. Can we be 112 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 2: realistic here? Now here's the thing, interestingly, and this is 113 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 2: one of the things that we're going to talk about 114 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 2: in a few minutes, is you know, parents kind of 115 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 2: stepping in and advocating for boy learning styles as well 116 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: as girl learning styles. But there are ways, even in 117 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 2: today's classroom where you do have to be realistic about 118 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: kind of how do you educate kids at scale? Because 119 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 2: obviously the boy more boy friendly, boy brain friendly way 120 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 2: of educating would probably be hands on apprenticeship type stuff that's. 121 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 4: Not as scalable. 122 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 2: That's one to one to two or one to three, 123 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: that's not one to thirty. 124 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 3: Right. 125 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 2: But I heard this great example not that long ago. 126 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: I was talking with another woman about this, and she 127 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 2: she had daughters, but she was talking about how she loved, loved, loved, 128 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 2: loved in elementary school. One of her daughter's teachers was 129 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 2: so attuned to what boys needed, she said, she pretty 130 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 2: quickly diagnosed which boys were kind of the wiggly ones. 131 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 2: You know, this is elementary school. And so she said, okay, 132 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,559 Speaker 2: this is developmentally appropriate, right, these boys need a little 133 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: more activity, And so she put them in the back 134 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 2: of the room so they wouldn't disturb others, like their 135 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 2: desks were in the back, and she drew in tape 136 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 2: around their desk a giant circle and said, you know, 137 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 2: each boy, you can get up and you can walk 138 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: around the desk, you can stand, you can stretch, you 139 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 2: know whatever, just stay in the stay, stay in the circle, 140 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 2: and then sit back down when you're able. And here's 141 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: what she may may have known or may not have known. 142 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 2: But the brain, the way the brain is designed, and 143 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 2: this is I think the way God designed us. This 144 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 2: is especially an issue for guys, not as much for girls, 145 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 2: but it is for both. Is that when the brain 146 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 2: starts to check out, which it would do at at 147 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 2: a lower level than for boys and for girls in 148 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 2: today's educational environment, when the brain starts to check out, 149 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 2: attention starts to drift. The brain automatically starts to re 150 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: engage the like physical movement centers and say, hey, you 151 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 2: need to move and wiggle in order to make your 152 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 2: brain start listening again. 153 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 4: And so for a. 154 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 2: Boy who is sitting still and listening when his brain 155 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 2: and he's like, my brain is checking out at some point, 156 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 2: I I I'm not attending. I don't understand what the 157 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,959 Speaker 2: teacher is saying. So he subconsciously, biologically his brain tells 158 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 2: him to move and to wiggle to re engage his 159 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 2: learning style. 160 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 3: I think, you know, as I'm listening to this, you 161 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 3: know that's all super fascinating to me. And you know 162 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 3: it may not be entirely practical in some smaller settings 163 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 3: or whatever, where you can where. 164 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: You can do that. I love what that teacher did. 165 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 3: But I think for for me, thinking back as a 166 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 3: young boy, if I had someone who said Look, here's 167 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 3: kind of the difference between the boy brain and the 168 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 3: girl brain. 169 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: There are you're desire. You're just saying this way, and 170 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: here's what you're. 171 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 3: Going to do about it. 172 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: It Otherwise, if. 173 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 3: You're you're evaluating yourself as a young boy and going 174 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 3: the these other students can do this and I can't. 175 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 3: Therefore I must be defective, there must be something wrong 176 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 3: with me. And that thought gets lodged in a little 177 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 3: guy's brain about himself and thinks he's just different, he's 178 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 3: not up to speed with others. Whereas if that teacher 179 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 3: can say, look, you guys are just different and you 180 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 3: need a little bit of different activity than someone else does. 181 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: But they're both okay, and they're. 182 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 4: Both good and design this way. 183 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, if a boy can't wiggle, right, I mean, this 184 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: is the concern, right. What happens when a young let's 185 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 2: just say that you're a fourth grade boy, okay, yep, 186 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 2: and you feel yourself checking out and your teacher has 187 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 2: gotten on you several times about just your you're disruptive, 188 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 2: even if all he's doing is moving. 189 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 3: In his seat. 190 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 4: What happens and the boys and the. 191 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 2: Boy's heart and mind when he like says Okay, I 192 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 2: can't do that. 193 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 3: He's embarrassed and he feels stupid. Okay, And you know, 194 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 3: if you feel stupid, you're more likely to check out 195 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 3: and focus on what otherwise makes you feel competent in alive. 196 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 4: Wow. 197 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: And so what could be? You know, I don't know. 198 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: It could be sports, It could. 199 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 3: Be you know, learning, knowing all the things about the uh, 200 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 3: you know, batting averages of most of the starting outfielders, 201 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 3: you know in the National League. 202 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 4: Whatever it is, whatever it is, I feel good there. 203 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 3: You feel capable, And that's what we're all wanting to feel. 204 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: We want to feel like we matter, we're good enough, 205 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: we can do it. 206 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 3: And I'm saying this from a guy's perspective. I'm assuming 207 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 3: that it's similar for young young boys. 208 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 2: I mean, our statistics, our data found that, you know, 209 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 2: feeling competent and adequate is far more important emotionally to men, 210 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 2: even though of course it's important to girls and women, 211 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:16,479 Speaker 2: and it's far more damaging if they feel incompetent and inadequate. 212 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 3: And if you do, you have the tendency. I'm going 213 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 3: to say this from my own personal experience, to just 214 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 3: check out of what you feel, you know, incompetent. 215 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 4: So suddenly we have these boys who. 216 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 2: I'm feeling stupid, like I can't understand what the teacher 217 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 2: is saying, even though if maybe he had was able 218 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 2: to have a slightly different approach to learning, he would 219 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 2: be just as smart as the girl sitting. 220 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 4: In the next seat. 221 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,719 Speaker 2: And so he sort of says he thinks of himself 222 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 2: as not being a good learner, and it starts becoming 223 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 2: a self fulfilling prophecy. 224 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 4: And I'm sorry, no. 225 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 3: I was going to say, so, does this just end 226 00:12:58,400 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 3: it in great? 227 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 2: Well, it obviously it keeps going because we saw the 228 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 2: reading gap, for example, getting worse as boys and girls 229 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: transition into the end of high school, and not surprisingly 230 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 2: so more statistics that gap translates to college. Now, one 231 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 2: of the things that is to me really interesting is 232 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 2: that it's gotten so stark, starkly different, that forty four 233 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 2: percent of women go on to college. Forty percent of 234 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 2: girls go on to college, only thirty four percent of 235 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 2: boys go. 236 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 4: On to college. And so in college. 237 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 2: There are far more women than men who are enrolled. 238 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 2: I looked back at the numbers, and in nineteen seventy 239 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 2: it was about forty percent women sixty percent men. Okay, 240 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 2: we were still in the Hey, we have to really 241 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 2: encourage women. We've got to get women of few more advantages, right, 242 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 2: So it was working. The pendulum was swinging, and so 243 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy eight we hit fifty to fifty. It 244 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 2: was exactly fifty to fifty in nineteen seventy eight, but 245 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 2: it switched in nineteen seventy nine. 246 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 4: That was the first year where there were more women 247 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 4: than men in college. 248 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 2: That's a long time ago, okay, nineteen seventy nine, and 249 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: it just got worse and worse and worse. So in 250 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine, which is the year I graduated from college, 251 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: it was fifty four Starry, you're making me feel old. 252 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 3: Stopping the year I graduated too, well, you, yes, I 253 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 3: had a different track. 254 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 4: You had a different track. 255 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 2: You had the seven years in the restaurant business before 256 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 2: going to college track. Yes, But okay, So in nineteen 257 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 2: eighty nine when we both graduated, it was fifty four 258 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 2: percent women, wow, forty six percent men. And today it 259 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 2: is almost sixty percent women forty percent men, almost the 260 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 2: exact opposite of nineteen seventy And we're still arguing over 261 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 2: whether we should really be encouraging boys and men and 262 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 2: whether there's a need for intervention. 263 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: Wow, well, let's just stop there for a second. 264 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 3: Not everyone's called to go to college. Yeah, just full stop, 265 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 3: let's get that out. 266 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 2: Of course, there's plenty of people for whom that's just 267 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 2: not what they're called to do, is they're not interested whatever. 268 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 3: Yep, But the education gap has historically had huge implications. 269 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 4: Yep. 270 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 3: With a college degree, you tend to make more money 271 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 3: and have more opportunities. 272 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: At least that's how it's been historically. 273 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 3: In Yes, this new age of AI, we don't we 274 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 3: don't know what it is, because everything you read you 275 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 3: hear about it is that it's first coming for the 276 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 3: knowledge workers, right, which is the college the college educated. 277 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: So probably this is one thing that has been maybe 278 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 2: an encouragement, and this is something that would help I 279 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 2: think traditionally boys and men is let's maybe try to 280 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 2: put a little more emphasis on trades andational training. So 281 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 2: you know, AI is not going to replace an electrician 282 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 2: or a plumber right there. You know, those the skilled 283 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 2: trades are always going to be a thing. 284 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 3: I hesitate to say the word always inter this world, 285 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 3: but it certainly feels more likely that it'll be always until. 286 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 4: We get like crazy robots. 287 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: That's crazy. 288 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 2: Yes, Okay, So here's some actual numbers. So male labor 289 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 2: force participation amongst like, if you set aside teenagers and 290 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 2: you just look at men and women who are twenty 291 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 2: years old and older, men's labor force participation declined almost 292 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 2: nine percent in the last twenty years. And that's compared 293 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 2: to for women, it did decline a bit, but it 294 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 2: was only three percent. So in other words, men's participation 295 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 2: in the workforce declined three times more than women. 296 00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 4: And that, I mean, that's just one. 297 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 2: There's there's so many different statistics, so we could say about, 298 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: you know, whether men felt like they were going somewhere 299 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 2: versus women, et cetera. 300 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: Wow. 301 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 3: And you know, another related implication of all of this 302 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 3: is that researchers have also found that a man with 303 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 3: a college. 304 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: Degree and more and more. 305 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 3: Income opportunities is more marriageable. Yeah, so there's all these 306 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 3: men who might be seen or see themselves as not 307 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 3: quite at the highest tier as a potential marriage partner, 308 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 3: even though. 309 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: They may be great, great guys. 310 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 2: This is a big deal. There's so many women who 311 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 2: say I just can't find a guy. 312 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 4: You know, who has a. 313 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 2: Good income potential and whatever, and they might, but again, 314 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 2: especially when you have that college gap, Yeah, that really 315 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 2: guys can hold themselves back as well. 316 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's it's the whole self confidence thing. Yeah, 317 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 3: and it feels like I just don't measure up and guys, 318 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 3: at least the guys that I know and the guy 319 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 3: that's sitting next to you right now, that's an area 320 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 3: that is ever present almost in their mind. 321 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 2: So we need to talk about I mean, this impacts, 322 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 2: don't We don't have time to get into all of it, 323 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 2: but this impacts the gap between men and women, impacts 324 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 2: mental health, emotional health, like all the relational health, like 325 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 2: all the things. And what we want to talk about 326 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 2: is encouraging. 327 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 4: How do we move to encouraging. 328 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 2: Boys and men in our culture because I think there 329 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 2: are just and it's the data shows there's too many 330 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 2: people who have grown up kind of perceiving masculine traits 331 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 2: as negative rather than as something to celebrate. I think 332 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 2: men see themselves that way. 333 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: Well, when when you. 334 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 3: Get fed a pretty steady diet, in things you read, 335 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 3: things you see on television or in the movies that 336 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 3: you know, some of the big problems are caused by 337 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 3: men acting like men, and it really makes you think 338 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 3: that there's something. 339 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 2: That you're defective as opposed to you're created this way 340 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 2: by God for a good purpose. Just to go back 341 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 2: to one of the issues some of you will remember, 342 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen, the American Psychological Association did not exactly 343 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 2: cover itself with glory. They put out guidelines. It was 344 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 2: I'm sure it was intended for a good purpose, okay, 345 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 2: but they put out guidelines on how counselors should work 346 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 2: with boys and men, And unfortunately, the entire report, all 347 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 2: the guidelines, was basically raising concerns about men's way of 348 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 2: being and how things like achievement, orientation and competition and 349 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 2: risk taking could become tied to like being dominant and 350 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 2: being pulling yourself back emotionally, or being aggressive or being violent, 351 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 2: or domestic abuse or whatever. Like listen, all those things 352 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 2: are important to call out, but those those are that's 353 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 2: a small percentage of boys and men. And there was 354 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 2: nothing in that whole report really other than a couple 355 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 2: little comments here and they're, oh, this is not every man, 356 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 2: you know, But the whole report did almost nothing to say, hey, 357 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 2: the way that these sort of masculine traditionally masculine traits, 358 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 2: that these are actually good qualities. These yeah, they can 359 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 2: go in the wrong direction, but you know, competition can 360 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 2: drive excellence, right. Risk taking can lead to a lot 361 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 2: of innovation. It can lead to courage when courage is needed, 362 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 2: that kind of achievement orientation that can really benefit our 363 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 2: society and our culture or a marriage or your workplace. 364 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 4: You know. 365 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 2: Strength, Hey, it doesn't have to Aggressiveness doesn't have to 366 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 2: be bad if you're being protective of someone else. And 367 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 2: so that was a really big uproar for a reason 368 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 2: of saying, let's not pathologize men. And thankfully there there 369 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 2: have been some studies will put this stuff in the 370 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,479 Speaker 2: show notes, but it actually Pew found that, you know, 371 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 2: more people had positive views of masculinity than had negative views. 372 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 2: But certainly the perception among men is they're kind of 373 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 2: walking around with this kind of culture thing hanging over there. 374 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 3: Sure. I mean, one of the things is as researchers 375 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 3: and writers, we get lots of books sent our way, 376 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 3: you know, because you know someone wants us to read it, 377 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 3: comment on it, perhaps on social media, endorse all of 378 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 3: those sorts of things. We got one back a few 379 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 3: years ago, which was from Nancy Percy, very very I 380 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 3: loved her stuff when she used to write with Chuck 381 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 3: Colson interesting in the day. 382 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 1: Yeah. 383 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 3: So Nancy is one of those kind of intellectuals and 384 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 3: just really a real solid thinker. And so she had 385 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 3: a book that we received and it was called The 386 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 3: Toxic War on Masculinity. And I remember it was sitting 387 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 3: on our kitchen island and we had some neighbors over 388 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 3: and one of our neighbors. 389 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 4: Was just stopped in his I know, he like looked 390 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 4: at the book. He was like, what what. 391 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: Because he goes I was. 392 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 3: I thought when I first read it it was what 393 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 3: I expected it to say, being the War. 394 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: On Toxic Masculinity. 395 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 4: Well, no, that's what the that's what Yes, that's what 396 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 4: he thought. 397 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 2: He thought, because that's what you hear about masculinity. 398 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 3: He said, so this is the. 399 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 4: Toxic War Masculinity. 400 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: Interesting. 401 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 3: Now, I don't know if he went out and picked 402 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 3: up a copy. 403 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: Of the book. He did surprised. 404 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 3: But anyway, so that that is something that you know, 405 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 3: we have to be aware that that thought is out 406 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 3: there that you know. 407 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you are the parent and so for 408 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 2: for those of you who are listening to this, because 409 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 2: we we really want to move to like what. 410 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 1: Do you do about this? 411 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 2: And what's the way to encourage boys and men? And 412 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 2: so one of the things if you are a parent 413 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 2: of a son, especially if you're a mom, and you 414 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 2: may not necessarily see it from the inside, but keep 415 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 2: an eye out. One of the things that we found 416 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 2: in our research for or for parents only a number 417 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 2: of years ago is this whole thing statistically that boys 418 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,639 Speaker 2: who are feeling kind of stupid you have to catch 419 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 2: that fairly early and talk to them about it so 420 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 2: they don't internalize that when they're young, and so that 421 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 2: they constantly can like switch that thought out of like, look, 422 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 2: I may feel stupid, I'm not like I have a 423 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 2: different learning style. That's okay, I'm wired differently. Kind of 424 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 2: that affirmation from the young age of a boy. I 425 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 2: think that's just one example, but I think it's pretty important, you. 426 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 3: Know, Yeah, for sure, So talk about the idea that 427 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 3: the implication that guys. 428 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: Pull themselves or hold themselves back. 429 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 4: Yeah. 430 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 2: So we just watched this little short film that I 431 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 2: think is absolutely fascinating. 432 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 4: It's called If. 433 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: We Were Ants, and we're going to put the link. 434 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 2: The link in the s Yes, okay, so funny story 435 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 2: how we found out about this. So I'm literally with 436 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 2: a dermatologist appointment. So I'm at my dermatologist appointment. And 437 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 2: the dermatologist, you know, the PA. She's great. We've been 438 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 2: working with her for years, and so we catch up 439 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 2: on each other's kids or whatever. And her she was 440 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 2: telling me her daughter is up in New York and 441 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 2: she's pursuing a college degree and she's pursuing acting opportunities 442 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 2: in New York. And she was like, Oh, these these 443 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 2: guys cast her as the female lead in this short 444 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 2: film called If We Were Ants, and it went crazy viral, 445 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 2: like six million views or whatever like right away. And 446 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: so I'm like, oh, I've got to look at this. 447 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 2: And she said, well, it's interesting. You might find it fast. 448 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 2: You might find it interesting what you did. Yes, because 449 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 2: she knows what we do right with the research and 450 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 2: the books. And she said her daughter had known these 451 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 2: two guys who wrote the short film, who wrote the script. 452 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 2: They they these guys had met in a Bible study 453 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 2: and and had solicited their director of photography I guess 454 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 2: from the Bible study or a different one, and they 455 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 2: knew her daughter and so cast her as the female lead, 456 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 2: and you know, then the whole thing blew up and 457 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 2: it went really viral. But she said, you'll find this 458 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 2: interesting because the theme of the short film, and one 459 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 2: of the reasons that it went so viral, is that 460 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 2: it's showing play out in front of you the different 461 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 2: feelings of opportunity that the girl maybe has than the 462 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 2: boy has, and how he pulls back as a result 463 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 2: of feeling maybe less than. 464 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 465 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 3: Now, I hate when someone spoils a movie or a yes, 466 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 3: so I'm gonna not do that, but I think we 467 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 3: need to talk about this a little little bit. And uh, 468 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 3: it's it's a short film, it's twenty four minutes, it's it's. 469 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: Kind it is. 470 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 3: I was surprised by how emotional it made. 471 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 4: Me feel, really guy, especially as a guy. 472 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 3: So so let me let me kind of set the 473 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 3: scene because I love how this, uh, this short started. 474 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 3: There's a you focus in on a young man in 475 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 3: a suit and a tie, and he wakes up in 476 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 3: the middle of a wood and he's confused and disoriented 477 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 3: and lost. It's clear that he didn't know how he 478 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 3: got there or how to get somewhere else. 479 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, he just started to kind of wander. 480 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,679 Speaker 3: And so you see that scene for a little bit, 481 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,360 Speaker 3: and then the next time you see him, he's riding 482 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 3: the subway day after day. He's got his head phones 483 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 3: in and he's listening to some music. And day after day, 484 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 3: this same young woman comes and sits beside him, who's. 485 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 4: The daughter of our dermatologistsmatologists. 486 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 3: And she sits there and she's got a sketch book 487 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 3: and she sketches things, and you know, you see weeks 488 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 3: pass in the timeline, and finally. 489 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 2: And he never, he never says anything how he wants to. 490 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 4: He doesn't have the confidence. 491 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:30,719 Speaker 3: Doesn't So finally she's the one who engages classic the 492 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 3: first time. And you know, but he held himself back 493 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 3: and that you see that through the remainder of the 494 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 3: of the short, that uncertainty in what's he going to 495 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 3: do with his life? 496 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: She was very. 497 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 2: Purposeful, yes, plan and and she has a turn. There's 498 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 2: a point where there's an opportunity that comes up. 499 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 3: Correct and and it it just and it you know, 500 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 3: it wasn't a downer of a movie. I thought there 501 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 3: was some emotional distressing in some way struggle, but I 502 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 3: think it was pretty telling on what these young men 503 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 3: are encountering. 504 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: And one of the things. 505 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 2: That remembering that these two young men that met in 506 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 2: this Bible study were the ones who wrote correct and 507 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 2: one of them was the lead correct correct. 508 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 3: So one of the things that struck me all the 509 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 3: way through it was this young man who was the 510 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 3: lead just appeared to be on his own. You didn't 511 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 3: see any older men engaging in his life. He was 512 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 3: kind of just left to try and figure it out 513 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 3: on his own, on his own, and it just you 514 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 3: felt like he was overwhelmed, you know, often, and so 515 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 3: he would kind of just he was by himself, and 516 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 3: he would live in his dreams of hoping that in 517 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 3: five years things were going to change, but not really 518 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 3: having a plan or any guidance to work wah change. Yeah. 519 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 3: So it just it was it was amazing. I as 520 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 3: I was watching it, I just again, you've heard us 521 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 3: talk about this before. I think there is a huge 522 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 3: opportunity for us older generation, the older generation to impart 523 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 3: what we've learned hard fought lessons to young younger people. 524 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 3: I think, you know, they want. 525 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: To hear oh, you know, and if you show yourself. 526 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 3: Is willing to spend time with them, they'll engage and 527 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 3: you know what, maybe maybe you're not going to be 528 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 3: talking to hundreds or thousands in some stadium event, but 529 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 3: you can change the life of one young man or two, 530 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 3: or three or ten by just engaging with them, listening 531 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 3: to them, having coffee with them, and sharing what you've learned. 532 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 2: Invite a group of guys over to your house every 533 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 2: Thursday night or every other Thursday night for dinner. 534 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 4: Yep, you know. I mean, we have. 535 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 2: A few friends who do that, and it sounds like 536 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 2: it is one of the most rewarding things for all parties. 537 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 2: The young men get to meet other young men who 538 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 2: have the same desire for purpose and mentorship, and you 539 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 2: get the ability to speak into. 540 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 3: The right And I'm thinking of this one friend who 541 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 3: does this. He has frustration along the way too with 542 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 3: some of them, like can you believe this guy's twenty 543 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 3: seven and he's at the very basics. He just is 544 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 3: struggling with those but he's got to start somewhere. 545 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 2: But then we have dinner with this man and his 546 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 2: wife relatively regularly every few months, and sometimes we hear 547 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 2: a year later, Oh guess what happened with that twenty 548 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 2: seven year old? I was so frustrated by and now 549 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 2: he's got a girlfriend and he's moving forward, and you know, 550 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 2: he's moved out of his parents' basement, you know, and 551 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 2: it in it always because somebody took the time to 552 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 2: encourage him. 553 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. 554 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 2: And I think, I mean, I just think that that's 555 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 2: just anyway. One of the things we don't really have 556 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 2: time to get into the statistics, but one of the 557 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 2: things that different studies have found is that one of 558 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 2: the main mechanisms for encouraging boys or men is this 559 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 2: kind of mentoring, is this kind of and I think 560 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 2: it goes back to that apprenticeship thing. It's just apprenticeship 561 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 2: in life and emotions and relationships, not just hey, here's 562 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 2: how you become a bricklayer. 563 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 3: Well, I mean I think back on, you know, my 564 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 3: own personal story, and some have heard this. 565 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: I think we talked. 566 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 3: About it a little bit in our first Studies episode, 567 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 3: first episode. So I'll just briefly say, you know, after 568 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 3: high school, I didn't go to college. I was accepted 569 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 3: at college, but I chose to go to work with 570 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 3: my brothers in a restaurant that my parents had put 571 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 3: their life savings in. I thought I'd do it only 572 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 3: for you know, a few months, and then re engage 573 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 3: with college for the winter term, so I'd just be 574 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 3: a semester behind. 575 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: That's what I thought. 576 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 3: Restaurant didn't do so well, needed my free labor, and 577 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 3: that few months turned into seven years, and I thought, honestly, 578 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 3: at twenty four years old, my future was set in that. 579 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 4: And there was no way to get out of there. 580 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 3: There was no way to get out of it. And 581 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 3: you know, there's plenty of folks who do make a living, 582 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 3: and it's an honorable living, you know, working in retail, 583 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 3: working in a restaurant. It's hard, it's really hard, but 584 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 3: there's plenty of folks who do that. I just it 585 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 3: wasn't for me. And I also had the advantage of 586 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 3: having a great father, yeah, and other men, older men 587 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 3: in my life, through church, through you know, just different 588 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,839 Speaker 3: activities and peers that said it's it's it's not over 589 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 3: for you. It's it's just encouragement. It's just encouragement, and 590 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 3: that's all I really needed. That. So you're twenty five 591 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 3: and you're going to start college. 592 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 4: Okay, that's wrong with that, Yeah, nothing wrong. 593 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: With yeah, And that's what happened. 594 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 3: But you know, you need that encouragement, and we can 595 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 3: be that encouragement to that twenty one year old, to 596 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 3: that twenty five year old, to that thirty five year 597 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 3: old that's still trying to find his way. 598 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 4: Yep. 599 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 2: And and again for our children. If you are a parent, 600 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 2: if you are an educator, if you are a youth worker, 601 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 2: if you are a a youth pastor a coach like these, 602 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 2: you have all of you have these opportunities to speak 603 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 2: life into the boys who will then become the men 604 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,439 Speaker 2: and sort of instill the vision that the way God 605 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 2: has made them is good, You're not defective, and to 606 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 2: really push for, for example, a bit more of a 607 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 2: way to honor how boys learn in our school system 608 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 2: for example. 609 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,800 Speaker 4: All of that, there's all these. 610 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 2: Meta analyzes that have been done, tons and tons of 611 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 2: research that show that just that kind of encouragement and 612 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 2: involvement makes this massive change. 613 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 3: And it's not a soapbox for me, but perhaps it's 614 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 3: it's going in that direction. Okay, our son in law, 615 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 3: it's interesting to be able to say. 616 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 2: That that's the weirdest phrase. We're still getting used to this. 617 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 3: Our son in law is working to being an elementary 618 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 3: school teacher or middle school or middle school. 619 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 1: He loves working with kids. 620 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,320 Speaker 2: I think he's nuts to feel most called to middle school, 621 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 2: but he really. 622 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: Does is good with it. 623 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 3: And the thing is a lot of men just don't 624 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 3: see that necessarily as a viable career path, and I 625 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 3: think they should not for you know, the the income 626 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 3: or all of those sorts of things that you know 627 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 3: are necessary, but for the impact they could have. I 628 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 3: was just talking with a friend just last week and 629 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 3: we were talking about stories of growing up as a kid, 630 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 3: and I was talking about school and she said, I said, 631 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 3: who is your teacher in fourth grade? Just making conversation, 632 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 3: and she said, my very favorite person, My very favorite 633 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,320 Speaker 3: teacher was mister Robinson. 634 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: He was my fourth grade teacher. 635 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 3: He noticed me and said, you know, basically I could 636 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,720 Speaker 3: do whatever and gave me that sense of well being 637 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,359 Speaker 3: that I could I could thrive. I said, I was 638 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,399 Speaker 3: painfully shy, and he noticed me. He knew my name 639 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,839 Speaker 3: and I wasn't even in his class and he said 640 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 3: hi to me. 641 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:25,879 Speaker 1: One day. 642 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 2: Well, I'm thinking about our son and his friends in 643 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 2: high school where there was a male teacher that all 644 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 2: of these guys would end up like eating lunch in 645 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 2: his classroom. 646 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,320 Speaker 1: Because he had an him. 647 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 2: He had a free period his work period and he 648 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 2: would work at his desk and just kind of be there. 649 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 2: And he was also one of the coaches, and you 650 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 2: know whatever. But so if you're a guy who was like, 651 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 2: you know what, maybe I don't know what my career 652 00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 2: field is going to be, like, Okay, seriously considered serious 653 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 2: the possibility even if maybe you've had a career for 654 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,399 Speaker 2: a while, maybe you're in a different phase of life, 655 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 2: you can switch to being somebody who pours into the 656 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 2: life of young men. Just think about that, because the 657 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,359 Speaker 2: studies have found that it actually makes a pretty. 658 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: Big, huge difference difference. 659 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 2: So I know that we're like running out of time, 660 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,400 Speaker 2: but can I just say for the record how grateful 661 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 2: I am that this conversation that we're having is no 662 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 2: longer to do and that people see the need for this, 663 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 2: as opposed to in twenty ten when Hannah Rosen got 664 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 2: created for talking about it. And I'm excited because I 665 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,280 Speaker 2: honestly think these little actions really can make a big difference. 666 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 1: I think absolutely so. Here we are at the end. 667 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,879 Speaker 3: Our takeaway that we want folks to remember. 668 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 4: What's our one thing? What would you say we always 669 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 4: end with what's the one thing we want we will remember, guess. 670 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:07,919 Speaker 2: So I think here's one thing for me. I think 671 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 2: we need to get into the habit with boys, especially 672 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,439 Speaker 2: now this is for everybody, boys and girls. It matters 673 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 2: for everybody, but especially emotionally for a boy, that we 674 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,800 Speaker 2: have to get used to calling out what they're doing well, 675 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,399 Speaker 2: not just what they're doing wrong, like kind of the 676 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 2: stop wiggling, sit still and listen, you know, being a 677 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 2: silly example, but it's a real example, and instead call out, man, 678 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,360 Speaker 2: I was so proud of you for protecting that kid 679 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 2: on the playground when that one other kid was bullying them. Like, 680 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 2: I'm really proud of you for that. If a boy 681 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 2: hears you're good and you're needed and you are operating 682 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 2: in the way that God has designed you, I think 683 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,279 Speaker 2: that that vision can change a lot. 684 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 3: So that would be mine, that's yours, So that's good. 685 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 3: Mine is Come on, guys, men of a certain age 686 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 3: like myself, we have a role still to play and 687 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 3: let's do this. We can we can invest some of 688 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 3: our time. If we're empty nesters, we've got more time 689 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 3: than what we did before. And you know, golf, sure, 690 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 3: it's fun. But I think really spend more time thinking 691 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,839 Speaker 3: about how you can impart what you've learned through life. 692 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:30,839 Speaker 2: And I want to say thank you to the men 693 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:31,359 Speaker 2: out there that. 694 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 4: Are all because there are. 695 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 3: Absolutely are, but that that would be my takeaway. Just 696 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,360 Speaker 3: think and ask God, how can you use me? What 697 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 3: do you what do you want me? What role still 698 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:45,759 Speaker 3: do you want me to play? 699 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, so okay, we need to wrap it up, but 700 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 2: we hope you have found this conversation to be helpful. 701 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 4: You can see a lot. 702 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 2: We put a lot of details in the show notes 703 00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 2: and some of the resources we talked about. 704 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 4: We're going to encourage you. 705 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,240 Speaker 2: If you know somebody that is interested to this. Maybe 706 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:07,880 Speaker 2: this is a boy mom who needs the encouragement, Maybe 707 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 2: this is a dad that you know who you think 708 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,720 Speaker 2: would be great as a mentor. Whoever it is, please 709 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,839 Speaker 2: share today's episode with them and tag us on all 710 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:21,240 Speaker 2: your social media channels. Thanks for listening to I wish 711 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,320 Speaker 2: you could hear this. Remember to subscribe to our podcast, 712 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 2: and as always, forward today's audio or video link to 713 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:34,799 Speaker 2: a friend, counselor, or pastor who would be encouraged. I 714 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 2: just want to take a second to thank the team 715 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 2: at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the podcast. 716 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,880 Speaker 2: If you go to lifeaudio dot com, you will find 717 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 2: dozens of other faith centered podcasts in their network. They've 718 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,479 Speaker 2: got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.