1 00:00:02,740 --> 00:00:03,700 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:04,660 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 2: Hey, Matt, thanks for joining me. 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Michael. I appreciate it. 4 00:00:09,260 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 2: Matt Seeger, author of The God Squad, The Born-Again San 5 00:00:12,660 --> 00:00:17,169 Speaker 2: Francisco Giants of 1978. It's the story of the giant 6 00:00:17,210 --> 00:00:19,709 Speaker 2: squad that was filled with Christians and was bold in 7 00:00:19,730 --> 00:00:25,180 Speaker 2: their faith decades before such boldness was popular. Eventually, local 8 00:00:25,210 --> 00:00:27,660 Speaker 2: media turned on them. We'll learn about that in a 9 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,990 Speaker 2: moment here. Matt, I believe you're a retired sports writer. 10 00:00:31,030 --> 00:00:33,730 Speaker 2: You are a person of faith as well. Tell us 11 00:00:33,790 --> 00:00:35,930 Speaker 2: about this Giants team. For those who don't know anything 12 00:00:35,970 --> 00:00:38,210 Speaker 2: about this Giants team, with just many people in our audience, 13 00:00:38,810 --> 00:00:41,339 Speaker 2: who were the God Squad and how unusual was it 14 00:00:41,460 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 2: at that time to have, you know, outspoken Christians on 15 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:47,100 Speaker 2: a pro team like that? 16 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,410 Speaker 1: Sure. Sure, Michael. A little background on the 1978 Giants team. 17 00:00:53,500 --> 00:00:55,900 Speaker 1: They did not win the pennant that year. So people 18 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,300 Speaker 1: are wondering, well, what's so great about the 1978 San 19 00:00:59,340 --> 00:01:04,390 Speaker 1: Francisco Giants? Well, for people out here, we suffered with 20 00:01:04,430 --> 00:01:08,330 Speaker 1: the Giants in the 70s because they weren't very good. 1971, 21 00:01:08,330 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: they won their division. They made the playoffs. They lost 22 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:15,820 Speaker 1: to the Pirates, and the Pirates went on to win 23 00:01:15,860 --> 00:01:19,380 Speaker 1: the World Series. So they were good in 71. After that, 24 00:01:19,420 --> 00:01:23,380 Speaker 1: they were pretty terrible. And their attendance kept dwindling in 25 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: Candlestick Park, which is freezing cold and not a nice 26 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:32,700 Speaker 1: place to watch a ball game. And in 1977, their 27 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,940 Speaker 1: attendance was around 700,000 for the year. It rated 25th 28 00:01:37,100 --> 00:01:42,690 Speaker 1: out of the 26 major league teams. 1978, they had 29 00:01:42,730 --> 00:01:46,710 Speaker 1: an infusion of some talent, which they didn't have before. 30 00:01:46,770 --> 00:01:50,380 Speaker 1: The main thing was they acquired Vita Blue. who had 31 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:56,050 Speaker 1: been a world champion with the Oakland A's for 72 32 00:01:56,050 --> 00:01:59,210 Speaker 1: through 74 and was still a great pitcher. So they 33 00:01:59,250 --> 00:02:02,590 Speaker 1: got Vida Blue at the beginning of the 78 season. 34 00:02:03,110 --> 00:02:06,970 Speaker 1: They also had gotten Willie McCovey back. McCovey, of course, 35 00:02:07,010 --> 00:02:10,329 Speaker 1: had been a mainstay with the Giants, had gone with 36 00:02:10,350 --> 00:02:14,290 Speaker 1: the Padres, but they got Willie McCovey back in 77. 37 00:02:14,290 --> 00:02:19,300 Speaker 1: And they had a great pitching staff. Guy named Bob Knepper, left-hander, 38 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:25,019 Speaker 1: They had John, known as the Count Montefiusco, Ed Helicki, 39 00:02:25,970 --> 00:02:29,910 Speaker 1: Jim Barr, and Vida Blue, and great relievers in Gary 40 00:02:29,950 --> 00:02:34,510 Speaker 1: Lavelle and Randy Moffitt, lefty and righty combo. And so 41 00:02:35,070 --> 00:02:39,589 Speaker 1: they began to win in 78. And San Francisco was 42 00:02:39,630 --> 00:02:42,510 Speaker 1: not used to this and started coming to the ballpark. 43 00:02:43,270 --> 00:02:49,340 Speaker 1: And game after game, they had miraculous come-from-behind wins. And 44 00:02:49,970 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: By the end of the season, they had increased their 45 00:02:52,900 --> 00:02:56,780 Speaker 1: attendance over the last year by 1 million. So they 46 00:02:56,820 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: had over 1,700,000 in attendance in 78, and they were 47 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: fifth out of the 26 major league teams in attendance. 48 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,660 Speaker 1: So there was all this excitement about the team, and 49 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,859 Speaker 1: they were in first place pretty much throughout the year 50 00:03:14,340 --> 00:03:17,660 Speaker 1: until mid-August when the Dodgers overtook them and then the 51 00:03:17,740 --> 00:03:22,180 Speaker 1: Reds overtook them to Powerful teams. And the Giants had 52 00:03:22,220 --> 00:03:25,180 Speaker 1: a September swoon. And they finished in third. But it 53 00:03:25,220 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: brought a lot of excitement back to the city. Well, 54 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: concurrent with this is we had what was called the 55 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: God Squad. And what had happened is reliever Gary Lavelle, 56 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,300 Speaker 1: he went to Winter Ball in 1976. And he met 57 00:03:42,340 --> 00:03:47,100 Speaker 1: a guy, Tom, I can't remember his last name. Anyway, 58 00:03:47,140 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: this fellow led him to the Lord. And Gary came 59 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: back in 77 and began to share his faith quietly 60 00:03:55,780 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: with teammates when they were interested. And by 78, he 61 00:04:01,220 --> 00:04:04,860 Speaker 1: had several who would come to Jesus, and then others 62 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: who'd come to Jesus independent of Gary's witness to them. 63 00:04:07,940 --> 00:04:12,770 Speaker 1: But by 78, I count 9 to 10 out of 64 00:04:12,830 --> 00:04:18,510 Speaker 1: the 25-man roster who were born-again Christians, and began in 65 00:04:18,970 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: post-game interviews to thank God, not for winning, but for 66 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: the ability he gave them. And they were just grateful 67 00:04:28,380 --> 00:04:31,099 Speaker 1: for this opportunity he had given them. But they began 68 00:04:31,140 --> 00:04:34,180 Speaker 1: to share quite openly, which hadn't been the case in 69 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:39,670 Speaker 1: Major League Baseball. Baseball Chapel had started earlier than that. 70 00:04:39,730 --> 00:04:44,370 Speaker 1: You had some professing Christians, but it wasn't quite the 71 00:04:44,410 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: same And you have to understand the culture at this 72 00:04:47,860 --> 00:04:50,339 Speaker 1: time also, Mike. Well, this was on the heels of 73 00:04:50,900 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: the Jesus Revolution, which had swept up from Southern California 74 00:04:55,820 --> 00:05:00,750 Speaker 1: and into Northern California and San Francisco. And so these 75 00:05:00,850 --> 00:05:06,170 Speaker 1: young believers were very enthusiastic about their faith. It was 76 00:05:06,290 --> 00:05:09,690 Speaker 1: like they had turned from darkness to light and were 77 00:05:09,830 --> 00:05:13,989 Speaker 1: eager to share. And the drama centered around the fact 78 00:05:14,029 --> 00:05:18,810 Speaker 1: that this explosion of faith was happening in San Francisco, 79 00:05:19,370 --> 00:05:25,010 Speaker 1: which was open to the gay community. And because San 80 00:05:25,029 --> 00:05:28,210 Speaker 1: Francisco was so open in that sense, many young people 81 00:05:28,270 --> 00:05:31,130 Speaker 1: had traveled to San Francisco and were part of that culture. 82 00:05:31,710 --> 00:05:36,150 Speaker 1: And they had quite different views than the born-agains in 83 00:05:36,210 --> 00:05:43,029 Speaker 1: terms of issues like drug use, sexual preference, abortion, all 84 00:05:43,089 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: those things. And so, I think there was a fear 85 00:05:45,700 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: in the community that these guys were judging them when 86 00:05:49,980 --> 00:05:53,060 Speaker 1: in actuality they were not being judgmental at all. They 87 00:05:53,100 --> 00:05:56,729 Speaker 1: were just happy about Jesus and declaring their faith. Well, 88 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,410 Speaker 1: this sat okay with the community and the media in 89 00:06:01,410 --> 00:06:03,990 Speaker 1: 78 because the team was winning. And so if a 90 00:06:04,029 --> 00:06:07,190 Speaker 1: guy wanted to talk about Jesus after the game, the 91 00:06:07,210 --> 00:06:10,349 Speaker 1: reporters are, that's fine. You know, you guys, it seems 92 00:06:10,390 --> 00:06:13,210 Speaker 1: to be helping you. You guys are doing great. And 93 00:06:13,250 --> 00:06:18,130 Speaker 1: there wasn't really a conflict. But in 79, they opened 94 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:24,740 Speaker 1: up the season losing. And they kept losing. And into May, 95 00:06:25,220 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: and they weren't doing well. And the press began to 96 00:06:28,900 --> 00:06:34,620 Speaker 1: blame the born-again Christians. And their thesis was that the 97 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: coming to God had made them passive because they accepted 98 00:06:38,060 --> 00:06:43,010 Speaker 1: a loss or a bad performance as God's will. And so, 99 00:06:43,529 --> 00:06:48,930 Speaker 1: that was the accusation. And the press began to play 100 00:06:49,010 --> 00:06:51,630 Speaker 1: off of that to a degree, and stop me if 101 00:06:51,670 --> 00:06:55,180 Speaker 1: you have questions, but I'll just go a little longer 102 00:06:55,220 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: here on what developed. And there were a couple of 103 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: prominent colonists for the San Francisco Chronicle, Glenn Dickey and 104 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:09,370 Speaker 1: Lowell Cohn. And Glenn Dickey really had a problem with 105 00:07:09,850 --> 00:07:14,470 Speaker 1: the God Squad. And he was telling management to break 106 00:07:14,550 --> 00:07:16,850 Speaker 1: up the clique, that this was not good for the team. 107 00:07:16,870 --> 00:07:19,670 Speaker 1: You should trade away some of these guys, or you 108 00:07:19,710 --> 00:07:22,930 Speaker 1: should separate them from each other in the clubhouse. Don't 109 00:07:22,950 --> 00:07:26,530 Speaker 1: have their lockers next to each other. He was really strident. 110 00:07:26,990 --> 00:07:29,570 Speaker 1: Lowell Cohen, on the other hand, who I've gotten to know, 111 00:07:29,590 --> 00:07:33,730 Speaker 1: he's a great guy. And I should say, we're also 112 00:07:33,810 --> 00:07:36,929 Speaker 1: both of Jewish backgrounds, Lowell and I. I'm a Jewish 113 00:07:36,990 --> 00:07:40,850 Speaker 1: believer in Jesus. He's Jewish, not a believer in Jesus. 114 00:07:40,930 --> 00:07:45,070 Speaker 1: But We've become good friends through this book. But Lowell 115 00:07:45,090 --> 00:07:49,410 Speaker 1: was a satirist, and he enjoyed doing that to anybody. 116 00:07:49,450 --> 00:07:53,230 Speaker 1: He was equal opportunity. So with the Giants, he wrote 117 00:07:53,270 --> 00:07:57,490 Speaker 1: a column called Can Satan Save the Giants? And in it, 118 00:07:57,550 --> 00:08:00,650 Speaker 1: he proposed that since God didn't seem to be helping 119 00:08:00,690 --> 00:08:04,340 Speaker 1: the team in 1979, 1980, when they were still losing, 120 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,180 Speaker 1: one of them should sell his soul to the devil. 121 00:08:07,940 --> 00:08:11,380 Speaker 1: And if you're familiar with the the old movie Damn Yankees, 122 00:08:11,500 --> 00:08:15,790 Speaker 1: when Joe Hardy of the Washington Senators, who were always 123 00:08:15,850 --> 00:08:18,230 Speaker 1: losing to the Yankees, sold his soul to the devil 124 00:08:18,770 --> 00:08:21,950 Speaker 1: and became a great baseball player for the Senators so 125 00:08:21,990 --> 00:08:25,030 Speaker 1: that they could beat the Yankees. So Lowell proposed that 126 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:30,460 Speaker 1: the Giants do this. Well, the Giants' Gordigan players didn't 127 00:08:30,540 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: find this very amusing. And so Lowell and them had 128 00:08:35,179 --> 00:08:38,380 Speaker 1: some discussions in the locker room about this. So the 129 00:08:38,420 --> 00:08:44,610 Speaker 1: thing is, this became a national issue because other columnists 130 00:08:44,670 --> 00:08:49,750 Speaker 1: who read Lowell or read Glenn Dickey, they just, without 131 00:08:49,890 --> 00:08:55,100 Speaker 1: investigating on their own, decided that all these accusations about 132 00:08:55,140 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: them being passive were true. And so you had major 133 00:08:59,700 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: columnists like Peter Gammons of the Boston Globe. You had 134 00:09:04,700 --> 00:09:08,570 Speaker 1: the Daily News, trying to remember the name of the columnist, 135 00:09:09,429 --> 00:09:15,210 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Dick Young. So these guys were just spewing 136 00:09:15,309 --> 00:09:20,349 Speaker 1: out these myths about them being passive to a national audience. 137 00:09:21,070 --> 00:09:25,550 Speaker 1: One of the chief myths, the pitcher Bob Knepper, one 138 00:09:25,590 --> 00:09:29,090 Speaker 1: of the board against, the story was that he gave 139 00:09:29,190 --> 00:09:33,620 Speaker 1: up a home run to a weak hitting player on 140 00:09:33,660 --> 00:09:37,820 Speaker 1: the Padres. And when the manager, Dave Bristol, came to 141 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 1: take Nepper out of the game, that the manager asked, 142 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,100 Speaker 1: what happened with that home run? And Nepper said, it 143 00:09:44,140 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: was God's will. Now, I interviewed Nepper for the book. 144 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,229 Speaker 1: He says he never said that. And when Dave Bristol 145 00:09:53,250 --> 00:09:56,170 Speaker 1: was asked, he said, no, he never said anything like that. 146 00:09:56,750 --> 00:10:01,510 Speaker 1: And so this story was just inventive. And Knepper to 147 00:10:01,550 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: this day says, I would never say that. I never 148 00:10:04,650 --> 00:10:08,500 Speaker 1: would think that it's God's will just if, you know, 149 00:10:08,860 --> 00:10:11,380 Speaker 1: I give up a home run or even if I 150 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: hit a home run. He said, I would never say 151 00:10:14,660 --> 00:10:19,780 Speaker 1: something like that. But that story got It followed Bob 152 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,380 Speaker 1: Knepper around when he was with the Houston Astros. And 153 00:10:23,420 --> 00:10:26,780 Speaker 1: so anyway, the point is these kind of stories spread, 154 00:10:27,410 --> 00:10:32,010 Speaker 1: and the God Squad was painted with that brush nationally, 155 00:10:32,670 --> 00:10:36,910 Speaker 1: and it became a big deal. And I don't think 156 00:10:37,030 --> 00:10:42,750 Speaker 1: that the press was used to dealing with Christians being 157 00:10:42,790 --> 00:10:46,500 Speaker 1: that open about their faith, especially in San Francisco. It 158 00:10:46,540 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: was new to them. and the press reacted badly. And 159 00:10:51,220 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: I feel that because the God Squad took the brunt, 160 00:10:55,740 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: the brunt of the criticism and the brunt of the blowback, 161 00:10:58,980 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: and they got a lot of it. In fact, just 162 00:11:01,860 --> 00:11:06,349 Speaker 1: to elaborate a little bit, Gary Lavelle was interviewed by 163 00:11:06,380 --> 00:11:09,490 Speaker 1: the New York Times by a guy named George Vexey, 164 00:11:10,070 --> 00:11:12,349 Speaker 1: who was a prominent columnist for the New York Times. 165 00:11:13,090 --> 00:11:16,590 Speaker 1: And he interviewed, he wanted to know more about the 166 00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:20,780 Speaker 1: God Squad and he interviewed Lavelle and asked his feelings 167 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:27,060 Speaker 1: about homosexuality. And Lavelle said, I have friends who are homosexual. 168 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,420 Speaker 1: I love them, but I tell them it's a sin. 169 00:11:30,950 --> 00:11:36,070 Speaker 1: I tell them what the Bible says. Well, Vexey reported 170 00:11:36,110 --> 00:11:40,570 Speaker 1: that in his column, but as Lavelle pointed out, the 171 00:11:40,610 --> 00:11:46,340 Speaker 1: column said Lavelle's statements. For example, Lavelle said that that 172 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: San Francisco is considered a, that he feels it's a 173 00:11:51,940 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: satanic region. And Vexey quoted him. But the reason Lavelle 174 00:11:56,620 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: said that is the Church of Satan was founded in 175 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,309 Speaker 1: San Francisco by a guy named Anton LaVey. So there 176 00:12:04,350 --> 00:12:07,090 Speaker 1: is a factual basis for Lavelle saying it. But the 177 00:12:07,130 --> 00:12:10,809 Speaker 1: way Vexey wrote the column, it made Lavelle sound like 178 00:12:10,850 --> 00:12:15,770 Speaker 1: he was against the homosexuals, that he was condemning them. 179 00:12:16,620 --> 00:12:20,620 Speaker 1: And so, when that came out, Lavelle began to get 180 00:12:20,740 --> 00:12:25,540 Speaker 1: death threats from some in the homosexual community and letters 181 00:12:25,580 --> 00:12:30,770 Speaker 1: that were written to him. So, like I say, Lavelle said, yeah, 182 00:12:30,910 --> 00:12:34,110 Speaker 1: I said those things, but the column didn't include the 183 00:12:34,170 --> 00:12:37,190 Speaker 1: questions that I was asked. So, there was no context 184 00:12:37,230 --> 00:12:41,730 Speaker 1: to my statements. So, anyway, I feel that because they 185 00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:46,510 Speaker 1: took the brunt of this, that other Christians were began 186 00:12:46,570 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 1: to feel like if they're going to talk about it, 187 00:12:49,260 --> 00:12:54,900 Speaker 1: we will too. And in other communities, that's much more accepting. 188 00:12:55,020 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: If you're down in Texas and you're talking about Jesus 189 00:12:59,380 --> 00:13:02,570 Speaker 1: and you're a ball player, you're kind of preaching to 190 00:13:02,610 --> 00:13:04,650 Speaker 1: the choir down there, you know? Yeah. 191 00:13:04,730 --> 00:13:06,710 Speaker 2: And so, and so that was kind of the controversial 192 00:13:06,890 --> 00:13:09,689 Speaker 2: part of it. I'm assuming perhaps if they'd been the 193 00:13:09,730 --> 00:13:14,190 Speaker 2: God squad in Houston or, or Atlanta, it might not 194 00:13:14,210 --> 00:13:16,420 Speaker 2: have been as controversial, but it was, This was the 195 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: God Squad in San Francisco. And by the way, this 196 00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 2: is not a phrase that was invented by you. They 197 00:13:23,100 --> 00:13:25,260 Speaker 2: were called the God Squad, I'm assuming, back then. 198 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, and so this. 199 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 2: Is not something that was just recently invented. 200 00:13:30,860 --> 00:13:31,060 Speaker 3: Yeah. 201 00:13:40,550 --> 00:13:44,590 Speaker 1: Yeah, I investigated, Michael, the origin of the term. The 202 00:13:44,650 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 1: first guy to use it was Art Rosenbaum in a 203 00:13:50,020 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: column he wrote. He also wrote for The Chronicle. And 204 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: he used it in a friendly sense. He thought it 205 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,090 Speaker 1: was funny. And for people who remember the TV show, 206 00:14:01,110 --> 00:14:05,310 Speaker 1: The Mod Squad, okay, that took place in San Francisco 207 00:14:05,330 --> 00:14:08,130 Speaker 1: in the 70s. So it was funny. We'll call him 208 00:14:08,170 --> 00:14:11,870 Speaker 1: The God Squad. And so he did not have any 209 00:14:11,990 --> 00:14:15,990 Speaker 1: ill will in phrasing that. But then In 79, when 210 00:14:16,010 --> 00:14:21,030 Speaker 1: they began losing, the other reporters used it derisively. It 211 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,700 Speaker 1: became a term of derision rather than one of endearment. 212 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:31,380 Speaker 2: It's really amazing, Matt, how they were criticized by just 213 00:14:31,460 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 2: members of the media. This wasn't atheists picking at the ballpark. 214 00:14:35,420 --> 00:14:38,540 Speaker 2: This is members of the media criticizing them just for 215 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 2: their faith. It's amazing to me how it does seem 216 00:14:41,660 --> 00:14:43,810 Speaker 2: like we've come a long ways in terms of at 217 00:14:43,850 --> 00:14:46,850 Speaker 2: least how faith is portrayed in the media. And people 218 00:14:46,910 --> 00:14:50,470 Speaker 2: just kind of, most of the time, let people of 219 00:14:50,530 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 2: faith just say what they want to say. So how 220 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 2: do you think, I think it's easy for us to 221 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 2: think that the current faith movement began with Tim Tebow, 222 00:14:59,580 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 2: but my goodness, this is 50 years ago, you know, 50, 50. Yeah, 223 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,820 Speaker 2: and so how did they kind of set the stage 224 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 2: for maybe what we're seeing today? 225 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,010 Speaker 1: Well, I think what happened, Michael, is There's been some 226 00:15:12,090 --> 00:15:16,750 Speaker 1: organizations that have been very active in allowing Christians to 227 00:15:16,870 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: share openly. I mentioned Baseball Chapel, which was founded in 228 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:26,460 Speaker 1: the early 70s, and then Commissioner Bowie Kuhn officially approved that, 229 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: and so you have Baseball Chapel services to this day 230 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,780 Speaker 1: in all the major leagues. The other group, the Fellowship 231 00:15:33,820 --> 00:15:38,950 Speaker 1: of Christian Athletes, has been very active and they really 232 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:44,090 Speaker 1: have had like a grassroots movement where they encourage athletes 233 00:15:44,570 --> 00:15:47,510 Speaker 1: beginning at the high school level and into the college 234 00:15:47,550 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: years to openly share their faith. And it's become commonplace. 235 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: I also think that because of movements like FCA, that 236 00:15:58,620 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: the young Christians have become better at expressing their faith 237 00:16:03,940 --> 00:16:09,630 Speaker 1: in maybe a less controversial manner I think some of 238 00:16:09,650 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: the God squatters would admit that they're pretty fervent, and 239 00:16:14,500 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: that's not a bad thing, but it's not always understood 240 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: by the media. And so I think the Christians now 241 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,740 Speaker 1: are a little more media savvy, but also, as you say, 242 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,850 Speaker 1: you look at Tim Tebow, by the time Tim Tebow 243 00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:34,610 Speaker 1: had come around, it had become more and more common 244 00:16:35,170 --> 00:16:39,450 Speaker 1: for young high school and college athletes to openly talk 245 00:16:39,490 --> 00:16:44,050 Speaker 1: about their faith. I don't think that the press has 246 00:16:44,110 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: a problem with it. They're more used to it. I 247 00:16:47,390 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: have one little story to tell. I interviewed Gary Carter, 248 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,740 Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame catcher, who's now gone to be 249 00:16:55,780 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: with the Lord. I interviewed Gary a couple of times. 250 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:04,460 Speaker 1: Great guy. I believe it was after the Mets had 251 00:17:05,140 --> 00:17:08,850 Speaker 1: won the World Series in 1986 against the Red Sox, 252 00:17:08,950 --> 00:17:13,550 Speaker 1: and they interviewed Carter. Bob Costas interviewed Carter after the game, 253 00:17:14,250 --> 00:17:16,669 Speaker 1: and he said, first thing I want to do, I 254 00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:20,510 Speaker 1: want to thank the Lord Jesus Christ for giving me 255 00:17:20,550 --> 00:17:24,330 Speaker 1: the ability. And Costas was kind of shocked, you know, 256 00:17:24,830 --> 00:17:28,889 Speaker 1: because this was nationally. And so that was 1986, not 257 00:17:29,050 --> 00:17:33,909 Speaker 1: too long after the God Squat. And so even a 258 00:17:33,990 --> 00:17:37,090 Speaker 1: reporter like Costas, he's a seasoned reporter, was a little 259 00:17:37,130 --> 00:17:40,890 Speaker 1: bit taken aback by that kind of openness. But now 260 00:17:40,930 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 1: you hear it all the time. You just, you know, 261 00:17:44,060 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: you watch a college game there, you know, Tebow used 262 00:17:46,940 --> 00:17:50,700 Speaker 1: to kneel, other college players pointing to the sky. I mean, 263 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: it's become accepted, pretty commonplace. But I do think a 264 00:17:56,180 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: group like the God Squad, who had to take some 265 00:17:59,290 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 1: abuse on it, kind of set the stage and and 266 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,020 Speaker 1: kind of educated the media that, hey, this is a thing. 267 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,500 Speaker 1: This is going to become a thing. Athletes are going 268 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: to start talking about this. How do we handle it? 269 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:15,340 Speaker 3: Yeah. 270 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:15,780 Speaker 1: Yeah. 271 00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 2: Amen to that. And I think some people wonder why 272 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,550 Speaker 2: faith is so prominent among sports. I think a lot 273 00:18:21,570 --> 00:18:24,970 Speaker 2: of these athletes just find that it brings them peace. 274 00:18:25,369 --> 00:18:27,010 Speaker 2: I mean, not only is it true, but there's this 275 00:18:27,090 --> 00:18:30,020 Speaker 2: side benefit of they have peace in the midst of 276 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,619 Speaker 2: a society that worships sports and thinks that everything that 277 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,260 Speaker 2: they do is the end all be all. And they, 278 00:18:36,420 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 2: and they realize that, you know, faith is a way to, 279 00:18:39,530 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 2: to kind of put everything in perspective. And I think that's, 280 00:18:41,869 --> 00:18:44,649 Speaker 2: that's what, what's really good right now about the players 281 00:18:44,670 --> 00:18:48,690 Speaker 2: who are professing Christ is that it's giving them peace 282 00:18:48,910 --> 00:18:51,729 Speaker 2: and they can retire knowing that if they lose, it's 283 00:18:51,770 --> 00:18:54,669 Speaker 2: not the end of the world. So it's really good. 284 00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:57,230 Speaker 2: I love that about it. I was going to ask you, 285 00:18:58,260 --> 00:19:00,300 Speaker 2: for people to get more information about the book. This 286 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,740 Speaker 2: is available, I'm assuming, where, as they say, all great 287 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 2: books are sold. 288 00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:08,740 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target, all the 289 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:15,340 Speaker 1: major retailers. You'll find it online. You just put Matt Seeger, S-I-E-G-E-R, 290 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: God Squad, Google that, it'll come up. 291 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,290 Speaker 3: If you liked today's episode, please subscribe and leave a 292 00:19:22,330 --> 00:19:25,610 Speaker 3: five-star review. That's how we help more people just like 293 00:19:25,670 --> 00:19:28,470 Speaker 3: you find the show. A big thanks to the team 294 00:19:28,530 --> 00:19:31,590 Speaker 3: at Life Audio for their partnership with us on the podcast. 295 00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 3: If you go to lifeaudio.com, you will find dozens of 296 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 3: other faith-centered podcasts in their network. 297 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:38,540 Speaker 1: See you next time.