1 00:00:20,196 --> 00:00:23,236 Speaker 1: Hi friend, I'm so glad you're here today. Let's learn 2 00:00:23,276 --> 00:00:26,916 Speaker 1: how to raise our kids to love God, respect authority, 3 00:00:27,196 --> 00:00:31,036 Speaker 1: and do what's right. Let's scroll less and live more. 4 00:00:31,356 --> 00:00:38,116 Speaker 1: I'm Arlene Pelicane and this is a happy home. I'm 5 00:00:38,156 --> 00:00:41,275 Speaker 1: so happy to be here with Glenna Marshall. Glenna is 6 00:00:41,316 --> 00:00:44,716 Speaker 1: an author. She is a pastor's wife, a mom of two. 7 00:00:44,915 --> 00:00:47,516 Speaker 1: She and her husband William, have served at the same church, 8 00:00:47,596 --> 00:00:51,035 Speaker 1: Grace Bible Fellowship, in Missouri for over twenty years. And 9 00:00:51,075 --> 00:00:54,076 Speaker 1: she has a new book. It's called Praying in Pain 10 00:00:54,916 --> 00:00:57,916 Speaker 1: and check out this subhead, which I like so much. 11 00:00:58,036 --> 00:01:02,956 Speaker 1: How to know you're heard when you haven't been healed? Glenna, 12 00:01:02,956 --> 00:01:03,996 Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming on. 13 00:01:04,276 --> 00:01:05,556 Speaker 2: I wan's the joy to be with you. 14 00:01:06,036 --> 00:01:08,996 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a different thing, right. You think, well, I've heard, 15 00:01:09,036 --> 00:01:11,796 Speaker 1: so I should be healed, right, And we're going to 16 00:01:11,876 --> 00:01:14,315 Speaker 1: kind of unpack that, like, Okay, how can I be heard? 17 00:01:14,596 --> 00:01:17,756 Speaker 1: And what if the healing doesn't come right away or 18 00:01:17,796 --> 00:01:20,036 Speaker 1: in the way that I want or as soon as 19 00:01:20,075 --> 00:01:22,315 Speaker 1: I want? And you know, there's something in your book 20 00:01:22,356 --> 00:01:26,556 Speaker 1: that I saw, just a phrase suffering now, glory forever 21 00:01:27,435 --> 00:01:29,916 Speaker 1: right that it might be right now, might be hard, 22 00:01:29,956 --> 00:01:33,515 Speaker 1: but while there's something beautiful ahead. Let's let's get this. 23 00:01:33,715 --> 00:01:36,036 Speaker 1: Let's get the backdrop of your life and just what 24 00:01:36,396 --> 00:01:39,435 Speaker 1: caused you to write this book. Tell us a little 25 00:01:39,435 --> 00:01:40,996 Speaker 1: bit about your physical journey. 26 00:01:41,196 --> 00:01:43,996 Speaker 2: Sure, so this was a book I really needed for myself. 27 00:01:44,276 --> 00:01:47,356 Speaker 2: About sixteen years ago, when I was twenty nine years old, 28 00:01:47,476 --> 00:01:51,236 Speaker 2: I woke up one morning and noticed that my back 29 00:01:51,396 --> 00:01:54,876 Speaker 2: was really sore and stiff. I was an avid runner 30 00:01:54,916 --> 00:01:57,116 Speaker 2: at the time, probably in the best physical shape of 31 00:01:57,116 --> 00:01:59,996 Speaker 2: my life, and so I thought, oh, I've just tweaked 32 00:01:59,996 --> 00:02:02,236 Speaker 2: it on a run, or maybe I need some new 33 00:02:02,276 --> 00:02:04,996 Speaker 2: running shoes. And as days and weeks went by, I 34 00:02:05,156 --> 00:02:07,676 Speaker 2: tried different things. I did buy new running shoes, and 35 00:02:07,716 --> 00:02:10,516 Speaker 2: then I joined a pilates class and that didn't help. 36 00:02:10,596 --> 00:02:12,636 Speaker 2: And then we bought new mattresses for our bed, and 37 00:02:12,676 --> 00:02:15,156 Speaker 2: that didn't help. And as time passed, it just got 38 00:02:15,196 --> 00:02:17,796 Speaker 2: worse and worse. And it wasn't like an injury because 39 00:02:17,796 --> 00:02:20,076 Speaker 2: I would go to the doctor and try to figure 40 00:02:20,076 --> 00:02:22,276 Speaker 2: out what was causing this pain, because it was waking 41 00:02:22,316 --> 00:02:26,036 Speaker 2: me up earlier and earlier in the morning. And I'll 42 00:02:26,076 --> 00:02:29,796 Speaker 2: just condense the story. Wow, this went on for six 43 00:02:29,956 --> 00:02:33,156 Speaker 2: years and just got to the point where I was 44 00:02:33,196 --> 00:02:35,676 Speaker 2: sleeping about three hours a night, and I would be 45 00:02:36,036 --> 00:02:39,836 Speaker 2: sholted awake and just searing pain up and down. My 46 00:02:39,916 --> 00:02:42,956 Speaker 2: spine was hard to take a deep breath, and I 47 00:02:42,996 --> 00:02:47,876 Speaker 2: panicked frequently. I also had some other like seemingly disparate symptoms, 48 00:02:47,916 --> 00:02:51,156 Speaker 2: like I had skin rashes and headaches, and I had 49 00:02:51,156 --> 00:02:56,835 Speaker 2: trouble thinking clearly sometimes, and I would have just moments 50 00:02:56,835 --> 00:02:59,675 Speaker 2: where I was just so fatigued. I just didn't feel 51 00:02:59,716 --> 00:03:02,116 Speaker 2: I didn't feel comfortable driving sometimes, I felt like my 52 00:03:02,196 --> 00:03:06,516 Speaker 2: reactions were slow, and I ended up with During just 53 00:03:06,555 --> 00:03:08,636 Speaker 2: a really stressful time in my life, we were actually 54 00:03:08,675 --> 00:03:11,956 Speaker 2: adopting our youngest son, and his adoption was very complicated, 55 00:03:11,956 --> 00:03:14,956 Speaker 2: and I was very stressed, and I ended up. I 56 00:03:14,956 --> 00:03:17,676 Speaker 2: was on a trip to go to court for his 57 00:03:17,716 --> 00:03:21,396 Speaker 2: adoption out of state, and I couldn't see. It was 58 00:03:21,516 --> 00:03:26,275 Speaker 2: like my vision glazed over and everything looked foggy and smoky, 59 00:03:26,476 --> 00:03:30,556 Speaker 2: and my eyes hurt and they were so red, and 60 00:03:30,596 --> 00:03:33,436 Speaker 2: I was wearing sunglasses indoors. It was really strange. And 61 00:03:33,476 --> 00:03:34,956 Speaker 2: so when I got home from that trip, I went 62 00:03:34,996 --> 00:03:36,596 Speaker 2: to the eye doctor and he looked at my eyes 63 00:03:36,636 --> 00:03:39,796 Speaker 2: and he said, this condition I only see in people 64 00:03:39,796 --> 00:03:44,236 Speaker 2: with systemic diseases, and so I'm going to send you 65 00:03:44,276 --> 00:03:46,196 Speaker 2: to your GP for a genetic test because I think 66 00:03:46,236 --> 00:03:48,636 Speaker 2: I know what's wrong with you. And so this after 67 00:03:48,716 --> 00:03:51,595 Speaker 2: six years of tracing a diagnosis, seeing doctors all the time, 68 00:03:51,636 --> 00:03:54,556 Speaker 2: feeling honestly like a hypochondriac, to be honest, and so 69 00:03:55,516 --> 00:03:58,156 Speaker 2: I was diagnosed. My genetic test came back positive. And 70 00:03:58,236 --> 00:04:01,756 Speaker 2: at the time, they used to call this disease anklosing spondylitis, 71 00:04:02,156 --> 00:04:05,956 Speaker 2: but they now generalize it to be axial spondylitis. And 72 00:04:05,996 --> 00:04:09,796 Speaker 2: I also have soriatic arthritis. So these are inflammatory diseases. 73 00:04:09,836 --> 00:04:13,436 Speaker 2: They're autoimmune in nature, and they sort of live in 74 00:04:13,436 --> 00:04:16,476 Speaker 2: the family of diseases with like rheumatoid arthritis if you're 75 00:04:16,516 --> 00:04:19,716 Speaker 2: familiar with that. The ones that I have. It affect 76 00:04:19,836 --> 00:04:23,836 Speaker 2: my spine, my hips, my knees, my hands, very very 77 00:04:23,836 --> 00:04:27,796 Speaker 2: badly hands, and just all your peripheral joints, as well 78 00:04:27,796 --> 00:04:30,196 Speaker 2: as connective tissue behind your eyes and things like that. 79 00:04:30,356 --> 00:04:33,916 Speaker 2: And so I have now it's been sixteen years. I 80 00:04:34,276 --> 00:04:37,956 Speaker 2: spent many years after my diagnosis trying to get a 81 00:04:37,956 --> 00:04:41,316 Speaker 2: good treatment. I tried everything, and just in the last 82 00:04:41,356 --> 00:04:43,556 Speaker 2: three years have found a treatment that has given me 83 00:04:43,596 --> 00:04:46,276 Speaker 2: back some quality of life, so I'm really thankful for that. 84 00:04:46,315 --> 00:04:49,476 Speaker 2: It does fail sometimes, and so I kind of bounce 85 00:04:49,636 --> 00:04:52,476 Speaker 2: in between flare ups, but I'm much better than I 86 00:04:52,596 --> 00:04:54,556 Speaker 2: was in the early years of this disease, and I'm 87 00:04:54,556 --> 00:04:56,836 Speaker 2: so thankful. But I got to tell you, there were 88 00:04:56,876 --> 00:05:01,156 Speaker 2: just so many nights walking the floors in my house 89 00:05:01,436 --> 00:05:04,956 Speaker 2: while my family slept, and I'm just an excruciating pain 90 00:05:05,436 --> 00:05:08,356 Speaker 2: and no one can see but the Lord, and I 91 00:05:08,396 --> 00:05:10,996 Speaker 2: am just praying the same thing over and over, just 92 00:05:11,476 --> 00:05:14,836 Speaker 2: help me, help me, help me, just get through this night. 93 00:05:14,956 --> 00:05:17,356 Speaker 2: And I almost felt like I was stuck in that 94 00:05:17,476 --> 00:05:20,276 Speaker 2: part of praying because I really no I believed God 95 00:05:20,356 --> 00:05:22,356 Speaker 2: could heal me, and I did pray that he would, 96 00:05:22,876 --> 00:05:26,236 Speaker 2: but he didn't. In years went by and he still didn't. 97 00:05:26,276 --> 00:05:29,155 Speaker 2: So I struggled to know should I keep praying for healing? 98 00:05:29,276 --> 00:05:32,596 Speaker 2: Is this a second Corinthians twelve situation where I just 99 00:05:32,716 --> 00:05:34,476 Speaker 2: accept the thorn in the flesh? You know? 100 00:05:34,996 --> 00:05:35,116 Speaker 1: Yea? 101 00:05:35,276 --> 00:05:38,036 Speaker 2: And so back then, in those early years, I so 102 00:05:38,276 --> 00:05:41,796 Speaker 2: needed someone to just sit me down and walk me 103 00:05:41,836 --> 00:05:45,476 Speaker 2: through the lament psalms honestly and teach me how to 104 00:05:45,556 --> 00:05:49,716 Speaker 2: pray about really grievous situations and so the Lord has, 105 00:05:49,836 --> 00:05:51,916 Speaker 2: in his kindness, has led me down that path. As 106 00:05:51,916 --> 00:05:55,116 Speaker 2: I've studied scripture and I realized when we don't know 107 00:05:55,156 --> 00:05:57,635 Speaker 2: what to pray, we have God's word to pray back. 108 00:05:57,956 --> 00:06:00,116 Speaker 2: And so that is that's what led to writing this 109 00:06:00,156 --> 00:06:03,436 Speaker 2: book to just help others who've had similar chronic situations, 110 00:06:03,916 --> 00:06:07,315 Speaker 2: who get tired of praying about their disease, to know 111 00:06:07,396 --> 00:06:07,996 Speaker 2: how to pray. 112 00:06:08,276 --> 00:06:11,636 Speaker 1: My goodness, can you imagine and you're you're helping someone 113 00:06:11,676 --> 00:06:14,236 Speaker 1: who was where you were sixteen years ago, wondering like 114 00:06:14,436 --> 00:06:18,116 Speaker 1: where is the book that's here? And you use Psalm 115 00:06:18,116 --> 00:06:21,315 Speaker 1: thirteen and many other psalms, and you know psalms that 116 00:06:21,636 --> 00:06:28,276 Speaker 1: follow this four parts of lament, cry out, remember, resolve, 117 00:06:28,755 --> 00:06:32,436 Speaker 1: and we'll we'll unpack that. But but I really encourage 118 00:06:32,436 --> 00:06:34,276 Speaker 1: people to get this book because you will get you 119 00:06:34,315 --> 00:06:37,396 Speaker 1: will you will really get it then you write this. 120 00:06:37,596 --> 00:06:39,556 Speaker 1: I can think of no other place or time in 121 00:06:39,596 --> 00:06:42,916 Speaker 1: my life when God has most faithfully met me in 122 00:06:42,956 --> 00:06:46,835 Speaker 1: the dark in the night, in the crucible of my 123 00:06:46,916 --> 00:06:51,075 Speaker 1: deepest and darkest physical suffering. Give us that glimpse. So 124 00:06:51,195 --> 00:06:53,195 Speaker 1: for that person who's going to be staying up late 125 00:06:53,195 --> 00:06:56,476 Speaker 1: tonight and is wondering, wait, I don't get that, like 126 00:06:56,596 --> 00:06:58,636 Speaker 1: I do not sense that God is here at all. 127 00:06:59,356 --> 00:07:01,636 Speaker 1: How did you, How did that start to change for you? 128 00:07:02,276 --> 00:07:03,996 Speaker 2: There were a lot of nights where I would sit 129 00:07:04,116 --> 00:07:07,636 Speaker 2: and just kind of hiss out angry prayers to the Lord, 130 00:07:07,796 --> 00:07:10,436 Speaker 2: just to be honest, like why are you, why aren't 131 00:07:10,436 --> 00:07:14,876 Speaker 2: you changing my circumstances. But as the years went by, 132 00:07:15,116 --> 00:07:18,356 Speaker 2: I realized that God was using my pain to keep 133 00:07:18,396 --> 00:07:21,076 Speaker 2: me really good close to him, to really have to 134 00:07:21,156 --> 00:07:24,356 Speaker 2: come back to him in prayer over and over, and 135 00:07:24,676 --> 00:07:27,276 Speaker 2: the nights changed a little, not pain wise, because that 136 00:07:27,356 --> 00:07:30,796 Speaker 2: was still just an exercise of just trying to mitigate 137 00:07:30,796 --> 00:07:33,396 Speaker 2: my symptoms throughout the night for years and years. But 138 00:07:34,196 --> 00:07:36,676 Speaker 2: I in my living room where I would get up 139 00:07:36,676 --> 00:07:37,836 Speaker 2: in the middle of the night so I wouldn't wake 140 00:07:37,916 --> 00:07:39,476 Speaker 2: up my husband. I'd go to our living room and 141 00:07:39,516 --> 00:07:42,996 Speaker 2: we have these double French doors that face east, and 142 00:07:43,116 --> 00:07:46,196 Speaker 2: so I would sit on my couch in the dark, 143 00:07:46,636 --> 00:07:48,316 Speaker 2: and I would open the blinds and it would be 144 00:07:48,436 --> 00:07:52,596 Speaker 2: night outside, you know, and I would pray, and I 145 00:07:52,596 --> 00:07:57,236 Speaker 2: would watch the evening sky shift, you know, and slowly 146 00:07:57,356 --> 00:08:00,396 Speaker 2: lighten and slowly lighten until I could watch the sun 147 00:08:00,436 --> 00:08:02,476 Speaker 2: come up. And every time the sun came up. It 148 00:08:02,636 --> 00:08:06,996 Speaker 2: signaled to me I made it, and the Lord kept me. 149 00:08:07,756 --> 00:08:10,756 Speaker 2: And you know that phrase from I think lamentations about 150 00:08:10,796 --> 00:08:14,316 Speaker 2: the Lord's mercies being new every single morning. I felt 151 00:08:14,356 --> 00:08:16,796 Speaker 2: like every morning that I watched the sun come up, 152 00:08:17,476 --> 00:08:20,636 Speaker 2: I was getting to see those mercies each day. I 153 00:08:20,676 --> 00:08:23,156 Speaker 2: can't think about a week from now or a year 154 00:08:23,156 --> 00:08:25,276 Speaker 2: from now or ten years from now, because that makes 155 00:08:25,316 --> 00:08:28,076 Speaker 2: me feel claustrophobic when I think about dealing with such 156 00:08:28,076 --> 00:08:31,316 Speaker 2: intense pain for a long time. But today there's mercy 157 00:08:31,356 --> 00:08:33,716 Speaker 2: and grace for today, and the Lord keeps me. And 158 00:08:33,756 --> 00:08:38,436 Speaker 2: that became a really sweet practice of looking for joy 159 00:08:38,556 --> 00:08:41,276 Speaker 2: in the morning and realizing that the Lord had kept 160 00:08:41,316 --> 00:08:41,916 Speaker 2: me all night. 161 00:08:42,556 --> 00:08:45,076 Speaker 1: My goodness. I mean, we could stop right there and 162 00:08:45,116 --> 00:08:47,196 Speaker 1: be like, Lord, please help me to be more mature 163 00:08:47,236 --> 00:08:49,876 Speaker 1: like Lenna, because I think a lot of people would think, like, 164 00:08:49,876 --> 00:08:51,996 Speaker 1: oh my word, look it's morning and I still have 165 00:08:52,036 --> 00:08:54,956 Speaker 1: as left and I'm angry and this is awful, But 166 00:08:55,476 --> 00:08:58,236 Speaker 1: you switch this, Lord, thank you that it's morning, and 167 00:08:58,276 --> 00:09:00,636 Speaker 1: really joy comes in the morning, and the Lord feels 168 00:09:00,676 --> 00:09:03,796 Speaker 1: that walk us through those four like that lament just 169 00:09:04,116 --> 00:09:07,436 Speaker 1: a big picture of view. How that taught you to pray? 170 00:09:07,956 --> 00:09:09,996 Speaker 2: Yeah, So one of the things I really love about 171 00:09:10,076 --> 00:09:12,716 Speaker 2: the psalms themselves. I think it's the statistic is something 172 00:09:12,796 --> 00:09:15,676 Speaker 2: like maybe fifty percent or close to fifty percent of 173 00:09:15,676 --> 00:09:19,316 Speaker 2: the psalms are lament psalms, which tells us that the 174 00:09:19,356 --> 00:09:22,756 Speaker 2: Lord gives us space to come to Him with our sorrow, 175 00:09:22,836 --> 00:09:25,076 Speaker 2: our pain, and our grief, because so much of the 176 00:09:25,116 --> 00:09:27,996 Speaker 2: psalms is taken up with with that very thing. 177 00:09:28,436 --> 00:09:32,956 Speaker 1: Why Lord is this? Lord, do you not see? 178 00:09:35,316 --> 00:09:38,636 Speaker 2: And they're so a bold you know it's ps I'm thirteen? 179 00:09:38,756 --> 00:09:41,516 Speaker 2: Especially how long, O Lord? Will you forget me forever? 180 00:09:41,636 --> 00:09:44,596 Speaker 2: I mean, these are big, hard questions. But what I 181 00:09:44,596 --> 00:09:47,556 Speaker 2: love about the lament psalms is that most of them, 182 00:09:47,596 --> 00:09:50,156 Speaker 2: not all, there's a few that are kind of outliers, 183 00:09:50,236 --> 00:09:53,716 Speaker 2: but most of them sort of force you to take 184 00:09:53,916 --> 00:09:57,596 Speaker 2: turns in your path of prayer. So you start off 185 00:09:57,676 --> 00:10:00,596 Speaker 2: with this lament, which is really what we call biblical complaint, 186 00:10:00,676 --> 00:10:03,556 Speaker 2: not complaining about God, but complaining to God where you 187 00:10:03,636 --> 00:10:05,796 Speaker 2: are taking this grievous thing in your life and you're 188 00:10:05,836 --> 00:10:09,276 Speaker 2: just saying, this is too much, it's too hard, and 189 00:10:09,316 --> 00:10:10,836 Speaker 2: where else am I going to go but to the 190 00:10:10,836 --> 00:10:12,636 Speaker 2: one who is sovereign and good, So I'm going to 191 00:10:12,676 --> 00:10:15,596 Speaker 2: take it to you, Lord. And then the psalmist will 192 00:10:15,676 --> 00:10:18,556 Speaker 2: take a turn in their prayer and they'll sort of 193 00:10:18,996 --> 00:10:21,796 Speaker 2: cry out for help and ask the Lord to intervene. 194 00:10:22,236 --> 00:10:25,036 Speaker 2: If it's enemies, you know, Lord, please stop them or 195 00:10:25,076 --> 00:10:28,036 Speaker 2: protect me from them. If it's an illness, it's restore 196 00:10:28,156 --> 00:10:30,716 Speaker 2: life to me. There's all these different types of lament psalms, 197 00:10:31,156 --> 00:10:34,556 Speaker 2: and so they cry out for help again, because where 198 00:10:34,636 --> 00:10:38,276 Speaker 2: else can you go but to the Lord. With your suffering, 199 00:10:38,316 --> 00:10:40,396 Speaker 2: we should go to him. And I think those two 200 00:10:40,396 --> 00:10:42,996 Speaker 2: steps in the lament psalms teach us that it is 201 00:10:43,036 --> 00:10:45,636 Speaker 2: the right step to take your suffering and sorrows and 202 00:10:45,636 --> 00:10:49,156 Speaker 2: your plea for help to God. So then what they do, 203 00:10:49,996 --> 00:10:53,636 Speaker 2: almost always, they take another turn on this path of lament, 204 00:10:53,796 --> 00:10:58,076 Speaker 2: and they stop and remember God's past faithfulness. And for 205 00:10:58,116 --> 00:11:01,996 Speaker 2: a lot of these lament psalms, they're appealing to the 206 00:11:02,076 --> 00:11:05,756 Speaker 2: memory of the story of the Exodus, where the people 207 00:11:05,756 --> 00:11:08,396 Speaker 2: of Israel are rescued from four hundred years of slavery 208 00:11:08,476 --> 00:11:12,356 Speaker 2: in Egypt, and God sends Moses to take them from Pharaoh, 209 00:11:12,436 --> 00:11:14,996 Speaker 2: and he sends the ten plagues, and it's these miraculous things. 210 00:11:15,076 --> 00:11:18,276 Speaker 2: This is their big story right, like it's like their Christmas. 211 00:11:18,316 --> 00:11:20,396 Speaker 1: You know, we are being delivered. 212 00:11:20,556 --> 00:11:23,196 Speaker 2: That's right. They celebrated it every year with Passover so 213 00:11:23,196 --> 00:11:25,556 Speaker 2: that they would not forget. They were commanded to remember 214 00:11:25,596 --> 00:11:27,556 Speaker 2: it in the law, to teach it to their children, 215 00:11:27,636 --> 00:11:31,396 Speaker 2: to talk about it all the time. Because that stopping 216 00:11:31,516 --> 00:11:34,916 Speaker 2: to remember what the Lord had done for them sort 217 00:11:34,916 --> 00:11:37,996 Speaker 2: of helped them take the last turn in the Lament Salm, 218 00:11:38,076 --> 00:11:41,596 Speaker 2: which is to resolve to trust his future faithfulness. Not 219 00:11:41,676 --> 00:11:44,676 Speaker 2: because your life is any easier, but because you remember 220 00:11:44,716 --> 00:11:47,716 Speaker 2: God's been faithful in the past and he does not change. 221 00:11:47,836 --> 00:11:50,356 Speaker 2: Therefore you can trust him with your future. And so 222 00:11:50,436 --> 00:11:52,716 Speaker 2: the psalmist will take that final turn and say, I 223 00:11:52,836 --> 00:11:55,876 Speaker 2: remember what you have done. Therefore I'm going to trust you. 224 00:11:55,996 --> 00:11:58,716 Speaker 2: And there is no shame in waiting on the Lord. 225 00:11:58,836 --> 00:12:02,236 Speaker 2: And so I think that process for people who deal 226 00:12:02,316 --> 00:12:04,996 Speaker 2: with a chronic condition or some type of physical malady 227 00:12:05,516 --> 00:12:09,156 Speaker 2: is really helpful because we have a lot more to 228 00:12:09,236 --> 00:12:11,636 Speaker 2: look back on to see that the Lord has done 229 00:12:11,676 --> 00:12:13,756 Speaker 2: for us. I mean, that story of the Exodus was 230 00:12:13,836 --> 00:12:16,436 Speaker 2: really a big flashing arrow pointing to the deliverance that 231 00:12:16,516 --> 00:12:18,716 Speaker 2: Jesus provided for us at the cross. And so we've 232 00:12:18,716 --> 00:12:21,116 Speaker 2: got you know the Jesus story. 233 00:12:21,196 --> 00:12:24,996 Speaker 1: We all what the law could not do, Jesus did, 234 00:12:25,116 --> 00:12:26,316 Speaker 1: we have something even better. 235 00:12:26,436 --> 00:12:30,036 Speaker 2: Absolutely, We've got the whole redemptive narrative to see what 236 00:12:30,076 --> 00:12:32,636 Speaker 2: God has done in his word. And then you can 237 00:12:32,676 --> 00:12:35,116 Speaker 2: sort of take stock of your own life and make 238 00:12:35,156 --> 00:12:37,316 Speaker 2: a list of all the ways that God has carried you. 239 00:12:37,396 --> 00:12:40,236 Speaker 2: And because He does not change, and because He is 240 00:12:40,276 --> 00:12:43,556 Speaker 2: also committed to his glory and our good, we can 241 00:12:43,676 --> 00:12:46,276 Speaker 2: just keep trusting him with it. And I think that 242 00:12:47,036 --> 00:12:50,276 Speaker 2: God is so kind to give us that path in 243 00:12:50,356 --> 00:12:52,476 Speaker 2: the psalms to teach us how to pray when we 244 00:12:52,676 --> 00:12:53,956 Speaker 2: just don't know what to say. 245 00:12:54,916 --> 00:12:57,596 Speaker 1: I love this because you want to cry out to God, 246 00:12:57,676 --> 00:12:59,796 Speaker 1: but maybe you have run out of words, or you're 247 00:12:59,836 --> 00:13:02,436 Speaker 1: repeating the same things, or you feel stuck, as you 248 00:13:02,516 --> 00:13:05,596 Speaker 1: talked about, and this pathway through the psalms, you can 249 00:13:05,676 --> 00:13:10,236 Speaker 1: use all different psalms of lament, cry out, remember, resolve. 250 00:13:10,356 --> 00:13:13,716 Speaker 1: It just keeps you in this prayer and you can 251 00:13:13,716 --> 00:13:15,836 Speaker 1: do it in different ways, and it's so beautiful. I 252 00:13:15,876 --> 00:13:18,116 Speaker 1: want to go back to the idea of complaining because 253 00:13:18,156 --> 00:13:20,996 Speaker 1: I really like what you wrote in your book that 254 00:13:21,116 --> 00:13:25,196 Speaker 1: you don't have to stop complaining necessarily you just have 255 00:13:25,276 --> 00:13:29,196 Speaker 1: to complain differently. Yeah, how did you find this in 256 00:13:29,236 --> 00:13:31,156 Speaker 1: your own life and unpack that for us? 257 00:13:31,316 --> 00:13:33,596 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think a lot of times when we 258 00:13:33,836 --> 00:13:36,596 Speaker 2: bump up against any form of trial or suffering, the 259 00:13:36,636 --> 00:13:38,716 Speaker 2: first thing we do is get on the phone or 260 00:13:38,716 --> 00:13:41,116 Speaker 2: the internet and we start complaining to the whole world 261 00:13:41,276 --> 00:13:43,676 Speaker 2: or anybody who will listen. Can you believe that this 262 00:13:43,756 --> 00:13:47,636 Speaker 2: has happened? And so I think as Christians, the first 263 00:13:47,716 --> 00:13:51,236 Speaker 2: response should always be to take all of our needs, 264 00:13:51,676 --> 00:13:54,836 Speaker 2: all of our anxieties, to the Lord with supplication and 265 00:13:54,876 --> 00:13:58,876 Speaker 2: with gratitude. I mean, the command and the assumption really 266 00:13:58,876 --> 00:14:01,156 Speaker 2: in the New Testament for the Church is that you 267 00:14:01,276 --> 00:14:06,316 Speaker 2: will pray. It's just assumed, and there's all these exportations 268 00:14:06,356 --> 00:14:09,236 Speaker 2: to pray unceasingly, to take all your cares to the Lord. 269 00:14:09,276 --> 00:14:12,236 Speaker 2: And Jesus says, you know when you pray, pray like this, 270 00:14:12,316 --> 00:14:14,076 Speaker 2: I mean just an assumption there that this is part 271 00:14:14,116 --> 00:14:16,276 Speaker 2: of the Christian life. And so I think what we 272 00:14:16,356 --> 00:14:18,636 Speaker 2: need to think about when we bump up against things 273 00:14:18,636 --> 00:14:23,556 Speaker 2: that are very hard or chronic or ongoing, is instead 274 00:14:23,636 --> 00:14:27,396 Speaker 2: of voicing my complaints to anyone in my life who 275 00:14:27,436 --> 00:14:30,676 Speaker 2: will listen, who will probably commiserate with me and you know, 276 00:14:30,756 --> 00:14:32,916 Speaker 2: try to make me feel better by building me up. 277 00:14:32,916 --> 00:14:35,236 Speaker 2: What I need to do is turn to the Lord first, 278 00:14:35,556 --> 00:14:37,796 Speaker 2: because he's the only one who can do anything about it. 279 00:14:38,356 --> 00:14:41,196 Speaker 2: And he is also the one who has in his 280 00:14:41,836 --> 00:14:45,276 Speaker 2: you know, mysterious sovereignty allowed these things in my life, 281 00:14:45,356 --> 00:14:49,476 Speaker 2: and so my appeal needs to be to him first 282 00:14:49,516 --> 00:14:52,596 Speaker 2: and foremost. And what I always love to encourage people 283 00:14:52,636 --> 00:14:56,436 Speaker 2: with is sometimes we think of prayer as the last resort. 284 00:14:56,596 --> 00:14:58,716 Speaker 2: You know, I've voiced all my complaints, I've done all 285 00:14:58,756 --> 00:15:01,596 Speaker 2: my googling, I have researched this thing to death to 286 00:15:01,596 --> 00:15:03,956 Speaker 2: try to troubleshoot it. I guess I'll pray about it 287 00:15:03,956 --> 00:15:05,436 Speaker 2: now because I don't know what else to do. But 288 00:15:06,196 --> 00:15:09,116 Speaker 2: prayer should be our first response. Prayer is never nothing. 289 00:15:09,596 --> 00:15:12,996 Speaker 2: I mean, prayer is how we stand firm in the faith. 290 00:15:13,476 --> 00:15:17,396 Speaker 2: Prayer is how sometimes we learn to think rightly about 291 00:15:17,396 --> 00:15:21,676 Speaker 2: our situation. I need to start my prayer by remembering 292 00:15:22,276 --> 00:15:24,836 Speaker 2: who got it, who it is that I'm complaining to, 293 00:15:25,076 --> 00:15:29,196 Speaker 2: And sometimes that shifts the way that I complain. And 294 00:15:29,316 --> 00:15:32,076 Speaker 2: I don't mean complain like woe is me and I 295 00:15:32,116 --> 00:15:35,156 Speaker 2: don't deserve any of this, But Lord, this is really hard. 296 00:15:35,836 --> 00:15:36,676 Speaker 2: How do I do it? 297 00:15:37,036 --> 00:15:37,476 Speaker 1: Yeah? 298 00:15:37,676 --> 00:15:38,436 Speaker 2: Help me through it. 299 00:15:39,516 --> 00:15:42,956 Speaker 1: You have this time when a friend and all of 300 00:15:43,036 --> 00:15:45,476 Speaker 1: us I feel like have been here, whether it's chronic 301 00:15:45,476 --> 00:15:48,676 Speaker 1: illness or a hard child or a hard move, whatever 302 00:15:48,716 --> 00:15:51,716 Speaker 1: it is. But your friend was like, oh my back hurts, 303 00:15:51,836 --> 00:15:53,836 Speaker 1: and you were like, oh, please give me a break. 304 00:15:54,156 --> 00:15:56,516 Speaker 2: Oh I just absolutely I bit her head off. I 305 00:15:56,636 --> 00:16:01,316 Speaker 2: just oh, I remember this so well. It was years 306 00:16:01,356 --> 00:16:04,396 Speaker 2: ago and it was a dear friend and she was 307 00:16:04,436 --> 00:16:07,316 Speaker 2: complaining about pulling something in her back over the weekend. 308 00:16:07,356 --> 00:16:09,836 Speaker 2: And she was like, I just, you know, really struggled 309 00:16:09,836 --> 00:16:12,076 Speaker 2: all weekend. It was just horrible. You just have no idea. 310 00:16:12,516 --> 00:16:15,076 Speaker 2: And I was like, you don't think I live with 311 00:16:15,116 --> 00:16:18,076 Speaker 2: that on an absolutely daily basis and half for over 312 00:16:18,116 --> 00:16:21,996 Speaker 2: a decade. And I mean she was mortified, and I'm like, Lenna, 313 00:16:22,116 --> 00:16:25,596 Speaker 2: what did you accomplish in that? That was horrible? And 314 00:16:25,636 --> 00:16:27,436 Speaker 2: I apologize to you. I was like, I'm so sorry. 315 00:16:27,476 --> 00:16:29,516 Speaker 2: That's so ugly. That's just my bitterness about being in 316 00:16:29,596 --> 00:16:30,596 Speaker 2: pain talking. 317 00:16:31,116 --> 00:16:35,276 Speaker 1: Isn't it so funny? I love this, Uh like putting 318 00:16:35,276 --> 00:16:37,676 Speaker 1: a mirror to ourselves to realize, oh my gosh, we 319 00:16:37,796 --> 00:16:40,036 Speaker 1: do this. We totally wan up, like we do my 320 00:16:40,196 --> 00:16:42,196 Speaker 1: life is way worse than your life, and here so 321 00:16:42,596 --> 00:16:44,956 Speaker 1: and then you would share your story, we'd be like, okay, Glenna, 322 00:16:44,996 --> 00:16:46,996 Speaker 1: you win, I know, let me see. But then there'll 323 00:16:47,036 --> 00:16:49,556 Speaker 1: be someone else that will say, oh, Glenna, I win. 324 00:16:49,916 --> 00:16:52,396 Speaker 2: Like that life is worse than yours, absolutely, And so 325 00:16:52,436 --> 00:16:55,556 Speaker 2: where I like to land on that is, you know, 326 00:16:55,636 --> 00:16:58,196 Speaker 2: nobody knows what it's like to be in your body, 327 00:16:58,716 --> 00:17:02,356 Speaker 2: and so the pain you feel is the pain you feel, 328 00:17:02,476 --> 00:17:05,916 Speaker 2: and it's legitimate and valid. And so one upsmanship has 329 00:17:06,156 --> 00:17:09,156 Speaker 2: never helped any of us in the Christian life in 330 00:17:09,196 --> 00:17:12,156 Speaker 2: any way. And our command to one another is to 331 00:17:12,436 --> 00:17:16,036 Speaker 2: rejoice with those who rejoice, and to weep with those 332 00:17:16,036 --> 00:17:18,876 Speaker 2: who weep. And so rather than this one upmanship like 333 00:17:18,996 --> 00:17:21,075 Speaker 2: I've got it worse than you and I'm tougher than you. 334 00:17:21,196 --> 00:17:23,795 Speaker 2: I mean, that's just pride. You know, That's not the 335 00:17:23,836 --> 00:17:26,635 Speaker 2: purpose in our pain. The purpose in our pain and 336 00:17:26,636 --> 00:17:29,196 Speaker 2: suffering is that the Lord, can you use it to 337 00:17:29,316 --> 00:17:32,075 Speaker 2: make us like Jesus. And so we got to just 338 00:17:32,116 --> 00:17:34,075 Speaker 2: put that one upsmon ship to the side. And I 339 00:17:34,275 --> 00:17:37,475 Speaker 2: speak from true experience that it is an ugly thing 340 00:17:37,556 --> 00:17:38,995 Speaker 2: to put it up in your life. 341 00:17:39,995 --> 00:17:41,555 Speaker 1: That you could put it aside and then something that 342 00:17:41,596 --> 00:17:43,076 Speaker 1: you pick it back up and then you put it right, 343 00:17:43,275 --> 00:17:46,955 Speaker 1: but just keep putting it to the side, kind of 344 00:17:46,955 --> 00:17:49,315 Speaker 1: in the same vein. You know, you have the story 345 00:17:49,356 --> 00:17:53,795 Speaker 1: where in twenty twenty one, your autoimmune disease was peaking 346 00:17:54,396 --> 00:17:57,835 Speaker 1: in a bad place and your church was doing like 347 00:17:57,876 --> 00:18:01,315 Speaker 1: an outreach to widows and house bound of leaf flowing. 348 00:18:01,396 --> 00:18:04,116 Speaker 2: Tell us what happened. Oh, so I had a friend 349 00:18:04,116 --> 00:18:05,995 Speaker 2: from church call me up and we were going to 350 00:18:06,035 --> 00:18:09,196 Speaker 2: be assigned to be breaking leaves at widows and shut 351 00:18:09,196 --> 00:18:11,796 Speaker 2: in's homes. And I was in such a bad way, 352 00:18:11,836 --> 00:18:14,196 Speaker 2: and I had not told anyone that my disease had 353 00:18:14,235 --> 00:18:17,156 Speaker 2: flared up particularly bad, and I was really having trouble 354 00:18:17,235 --> 00:18:18,715 Speaker 2: just walking around my house. 355 00:18:18,916 --> 00:18:21,595 Speaker 1: And let's let's also reiterate, you're the pastor's wife. I 356 00:18:21,636 --> 00:18:25,556 Speaker 1: am the pastor ide like, well, she responsibilities, like. 357 00:18:25,556 --> 00:18:29,235 Speaker 2: She's at everything, and I am at everything and happy 358 00:18:29,275 --> 00:18:31,956 Speaker 2: to be. But I was I'm also, you know, one 359 00:18:31,955 --> 00:18:34,356 Speaker 2: of these people that really likes to do things myself. 360 00:18:34,475 --> 00:18:37,955 Speaker 2: I tried my self sufficient is not really a fruit 361 00:18:37,955 --> 00:18:40,396 Speaker 2: of the spirit, but I try to be try to 362 00:18:40,436 --> 00:18:41,795 Speaker 2: make self sufficiency. 363 00:18:41,275 --> 00:18:43,715 Speaker 1: If most of us are this way, yes, right, So. 364 00:18:43,955 --> 00:18:47,235 Speaker 2: I hadn't told really told anyone. I was struggling so much. 365 00:18:47,275 --> 00:18:49,036 Speaker 2: And this friend calls me up and she says, which 366 00:18:49,035 --> 00:18:50,835 Speaker 2: house are you going to be? Raking leaves on? And 367 00:18:50,876 --> 00:18:53,636 Speaker 2: I was like, I don't think I can hold a rake. 368 00:18:54,116 --> 00:18:56,276 Speaker 2: I mean I just honestly cannot. I can barely take 369 00:18:56,316 --> 00:18:59,515 Speaker 2: steps without excruciating pain. So I described what was going 370 00:18:59,515 --> 00:19:03,396 Speaker 2: on and and she very gently and lovingly scolded me 371 00:19:03,715 --> 00:19:07,076 Speaker 2: and said, how come I didn't know? How come nobody knows? 372 00:19:07,076 --> 00:19:08,515 Speaker 2: How long have you been dealing with this? And I 373 00:19:08,515 --> 00:19:11,395 Speaker 2: was like a few weeks and she's like weeks? Are 374 00:19:11,475 --> 00:19:14,436 Speaker 2: are you crazy? That's not fair. How can we bear 375 00:19:14,475 --> 00:19:16,595 Speaker 2: your burden if we don't know about it? And so 376 00:19:17,436 --> 00:19:19,876 Speaker 2: I was very chestised by this because this was just 377 00:19:19,955 --> 00:19:21,676 Speaker 2: pride me just saying I'll take care of it. I 378 00:19:21,676 --> 00:19:24,916 Speaker 2: don't need any help. And so she said I really 379 00:19:24,955 --> 00:19:27,275 Speaker 2: want you. We have like a corporate prayer time on 380 00:19:27,316 --> 00:19:29,116 Speaker 2: Sundays in our church, and she said, I really want 381 00:19:29,116 --> 00:19:31,196 Speaker 2: you on Sunday to bring this up so that the 382 00:19:31,275 --> 00:19:33,876 Speaker 2: church can pray for you. And I really didn't want 383 00:19:33,916 --> 00:19:36,836 Speaker 2: to because I felt like it was attention seeking and 384 00:19:36,995 --> 00:19:40,116 Speaker 2: everybody has paid issues and there's people who are way 385 00:19:40,116 --> 00:19:42,955 Speaker 2: worse off, et cetera, et cetera. But that Sunday I 386 00:19:43,035 --> 00:19:45,835 Speaker 2: did share during our corporate prayer time that I was 387 00:19:45,876 --> 00:19:48,035 Speaker 2: having such a hard time, and to my embarrassment, I 388 00:19:48,076 --> 00:19:51,755 Speaker 2: just burst into tears. So and I just in my 389 00:19:51,955 --> 00:19:54,955 Speaker 2: head were all these judgmental voices. You're such a drama queen, 390 00:19:55,796 --> 00:19:57,715 Speaker 2: so many people in this congregation who are worse off 391 00:19:57,755 --> 00:20:00,315 Speaker 2: than you. But that's not what I heard. What I 392 00:20:00,396 --> 00:20:03,156 Speaker 2: heard was the voice of my friend who had called me, 393 00:20:03,436 --> 00:20:05,835 Speaker 2: sitting a few pews behind me, and she was like, 394 00:20:05,916 --> 00:20:07,795 Speaker 2: can we just stop and lay hands and pray for 395 00:20:07,836 --> 00:20:10,596 Speaker 2: her right now? And so that is what the church did. 396 00:20:10,876 --> 00:20:14,836 Speaker 2: And afterwards, all these people came up to me and 397 00:20:14,916 --> 00:20:16,715 Speaker 2: were like, I wish I had known. Let me bring 398 00:20:16,755 --> 00:20:19,035 Speaker 2: you a meal, or let me take your kids for 399 00:20:19,076 --> 00:20:20,676 Speaker 2: a day so you can rest, or let me come 400 00:20:20,755 --> 00:20:27,396 Speaker 2: clean your house. And it just it really lovingly rebuked 401 00:20:27,436 --> 00:20:34,075 Speaker 2: me that you are weak sometimes, and it is like 402 00:20:34,356 --> 00:20:37,275 Speaker 2: you're giving your church a gift to let them obey 403 00:20:37,316 --> 00:20:39,995 Speaker 2: the commands to bear your burdens, but they can't bear 404 00:20:40,076 --> 00:20:42,235 Speaker 2: your burden if they don't know what it is. And 405 00:20:42,316 --> 00:20:45,596 Speaker 2: so since then I have tried to be more transparent 406 00:20:45,636 --> 00:20:47,916 Speaker 2: about when I'm having a hard time because I know 407 00:20:48,556 --> 00:20:51,876 Speaker 2: how loved I felt by my church family during that season. 408 00:20:52,235 --> 00:20:58,395 Speaker 1: That's so beautiful. It's beautiful. Help us navigate, like you know, 409 00:20:58,475 --> 00:21:01,635 Speaker 1: the church has prayed for you, You've prayed, you know, and 410 00:21:01,676 --> 00:21:05,516 Speaker 1: then the healing doesn't come. What helped that person who 411 00:21:05,596 --> 00:21:09,596 Speaker 1: is just like, oh, I'm just struggling in this Why why? Okay, God, 412 00:21:09,636 --> 00:21:12,436 Speaker 1: you hear me, but I'm not healed yet. What keeps 413 00:21:12,876 --> 00:21:13,356 Speaker 1: you going? 414 00:21:14,116 --> 00:21:16,715 Speaker 2: Yeah? So it's so tempting, you know. I'd love to 415 00:21:16,715 --> 00:21:19,275 Speaker 2: give everyone a promise, Hey, you're going to be in 416 00:21:19,275 --> 00:21:21,636 Speaker 2: this life, but that's not real and I can't tell 417 00:21:21,676 --> 00:21:24,436 Speaker 2: you that. And that's not what we see in scripture. 418 00:21:24,515 --> 00:21:28,075 Speaker 2: God doesn't always heal immediately in this life in the 419 00:21:28,076 --> 00:21:30,396 Speaker 2: way that we want. Now, I would say God does 420 00:21:30,475 --> 00:21:33,556 Speaker 2: always heal, and it's in one of three ways. Sometimes 421 00:21:33,556 --> 00:21:36,916 Speaker 2: he heals miraculously. My dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer 422 00:21:36,955 --> 00:21:40,035 Speaker 2: eighteen months ago, and twelve months ago he walked out 423 00:21:40,076 --> 00:21:44,156 Speaker 2: of his second chemo infusion without receiving it because he 424 00:21:44,275 --> 00:21:47,755 Speaker 2: was fully healed. I mean, I want to know my explanation. 425 00:21:47,916 --> 00:21:50,235 Speaker 2: And he's doing I don't know how long he's healed 426 00:21:50,235 --> 00:21:52,076 Speaker 2: for but he's been healed for a year and he's 427 00:21:52,076 --> 00:21:55,555 Speaker 2: doing great, and I praise that for that. But for myself, 428 00:21:55,995 --> 00:21:58,596 Speaker 2: I have prayed for healing for sixteen years and I'm 429 00:21:58,676 --> 00:22:02,636 Speaker 2: still dealing with ongoing pain issues. Just two weeks ago, 430 00:22:02,755 --> 00:22:07,116 Speaker 2: I was practically immobilized and back in the doctor's office 431 00:22:07,116 --> 00:22:11,516 Speaker 2: and trying new medications. And you know, I have experienced relief, 432 00:22:11,955 --> 00:22:15,796 Speaker 2: temporary healing from the common grace of medication, and sometimes 433 00:22:15,796 --> 00:22:19,235 Speaker 2: that intervention is a true gift of God, you know. 434 00:22:20,396 --> 00:22:23,515 Speaker 2: So sometimes we experienced temporary healing in that way. And 435 00:22:23,556 --> 00:22:27,076 Speaker 2: then one of my closest friends fought cancer for two years. 436 00:22:27,235 --> 00:22:30,076 Speaker 2: We prayed and fasted for her healing, and she died, 437 00:22:30,755 --> 00:22:34,115 Speaker 2: and I believe that she is healed now. And the 438 00:22:34,235 --> 00:22:37,115 Speaker 2: thing that keeps me holding on is that, like my 439 00:22:37,196 --> 00:22:41,196 Speaker 2: friend who passed away, we're all waiting for resurrection day. 440 00:22:41,876 --> 00:22:44,596 Speaker 2: You know, there's a passage in two Corinthians five where 441 00:22:44,596 --> 00:22:47,556 Speaker 2: Paul talks about our bodies. He refers to them as 442 00:22:47,796 --> 00:22:52,276 Speaker 2: dwellings or tents, and he basically to summarize, says that 443 00:22:52,396 --> 00:22:54,955 Speaker 2: these tents are not made to last forever. We can't 444 00:22:54,955 --> 00:22:58,196 Speaker 2: take them to heaven. But it's not like we're waiting 445 00:22:58,316 --> 00:23:02,036 Speaker 2: to just float through an eternal existence all see through 446 00:23:02,156 --> 00:23:06,676 Speaker 2: and bodyless and gauzy. You know, that's not the Christian's reality. 447 00:23:06,715 --> 00:23:08,995 Speaker 2: And really he's speaking to some of the philosophy of 448 00:23:09,076 --> 00:23:12,315 Speaker 2: his day that we would have a bodyless existence because 449 00:23:12,316 --> 00:23:14,396 Speaker 2: the body is a prison, so to speak. But what 450 00:23:14,515 --> 00:23:16,835 Speaker 2: he kind of doubles down in that passage, he says, no, no, no, 451 00:23:16,876 --> 00:23:19,636 Speaker 2: we're not looking for a bodyless existence. We're going to 452 00:23:19,676 --> 00:23:22,356 Speaker 2: put on a new tent and it will be indestructible 453 00:23:22,396 --> 00:23:25,315 Speaker 2: because it is made to last forever. And that is 454 00:23:25,356 --> 00:23:29,275 Speaker 2: what Jesus accomplished for us through his own resurrection. And 455 00:23:29,356 --> 00:23:31,876 Speaker 2: so I think for those of us who who are 456 00:23:31,916 --> 00:23:34,676 Speaker 2: not going to be healed in this life, we look 457 00:23:34,755 --> 00:23:38,076 Speaker 2: forward to the day when we will never know pain again. 458 00:23:38,275 --> 00:23:40,636 Speaker 2: And I'm so glad that this. I'm thankful for the 459 00:23:40,676 --> 00:23:43,315 Speaker 2: body God has given me. With all its troubles. He 460 00:23:43,436 --> 00:23:46,556 Speaker 2: makes us fearfully and wonderfully, and we suffer because of 461 00:23:46,676 --> 00:23:49,276 Speaker 2: the fall of Genesis three. You know, things just don't 462 00:23:49,316 --> 00:23:52,795 Speaker 2: work correctly. But I am so looking forward. I have 463 00:23:52,876 --> 00:23:55,396 Speaker 2: not taken this body to heaven, and I'm so glad 464 00:23:55,475 --> 00:23:57,356 Speaker 2: I get a new one and. 465 00:23:57,275 --> 00:23:58,995 Speaker 1: I get a new inglorious one. 466 00:23:59,316 --> 00:24:01,235 Speaker 2: You know, when you look at all the exhortations in 467 00:24:01,275 --> 00:24:04,235 Speaker 2: the New Testament for the church to persevere and endure. 468 00:24:04,755 --> 00:24:08,955 Speaker 2: The New Testament writers almost always hinge that encouragement to 469 00:24:09,076 --> 00:24:12,196 Speaker 2: endure to the promise of Christ's return. I think it 470 00:24:12,235 --> 00:24:14,676 Speaker 2: would do us well to do the same thing. We 471 00:24:14,755 --> 00:24:17,035 Speaker 2: get so anchored in the here and now, and pain 472 00:24:17,156 --> 00:24:20,676 Speaker 2: is very anchoring. It makes it, It gives you tunnel vision, honestly, 473 00:24:21,436 --> 00:24:24,436 Speaker 2: But when we keep casting our gaze to the promises 474 00:24:24,436 --> 00:24:27,235 Speaker 2: of the return of Jesus, I mean to me, that 475 00:24:27,396 --> 00:24:30,515 Speaker 2: helps me endure our suffering has an expiration date. 476 00:24:30,715 --> 00:24:34,276 Speaker 1: Yeah, one in twenty or maybe thirty. Think it's one 477 00:24:34,275 --> 00:24:36,916 Speaker 1: in thirty verses in the New Testament about the coming 478 00:24:36,995 --> 00:24:40,396 Speaker 1: of Christ. And so just that, keeping that in the foreground, 479 00:24:40,916 --> 00:24:44,315 Speaker 1: you have a very robust theology, a very robust like 480 00:24:44,475 --> 00:24:46,955 Speaker 1: understanding of the Bible and of God. 481 00:24:47,475 --> 00:24:48,076 Speaker 2: And what I. 482 00:24:47,995 --> 00:24:50,836 Speaker 1: Find really amazing and awesome for all of us. The 483 00:24:50,836 --> 00:24:53,876 Speaker 1: more we can understand God, the more we can cope 484 00:24:53,916 --> 00:24:56,356 Speaker 1: with these things, Like you have this lens to cope 485 00:24:56,396 --> 00:24:58,956 Speaker 1: with your pain and what you're going through because of 486 00:24:59,556 --> 00:25:01,955 Speaker 1: just this body of knowledge of not only what the 487 00:25:01,995 --> 00:25:04,315 Speaker 1: Bible says, but also what you've experienced, like both the 488 00:25:04,316 --> 00:25:06,556 Speaker 1: Holy Spirit of the beginning you and what you understand. 489 00:25:06,596 --> 00:25:08,715 Speaker 1: So just listening to you, it makes us think like, 490 00:25:08,796 --> 00:25:11,916 Speaker 1: let's press into our bibles, Let's press into what it says. 491 00:25:12,076 --> 00:25:14,636 Speaker 1: Let's press into these psalms so that we can have 492 00:25:14,715 --> 00:25:15,356 Speaker 1: the help. 493 00:25:15,196 --> 00:25:15,795 Speaker 2: To get through. 494 00:25:16,196 --> 00:25:18,715 Speaker 1: I want to talk about your husband because many times 495 00:25:18,955 --> 00:25:22,116 Speaker 1: one person is in pain and maybe the other person. 496 00:25:22,156 --> 00:25:24,115 Speaker 1: It could be a spouse, it could be a child 497 00:25:24,235 --> 00:25:26,595 Speaker 1: you know, is not in pain and you're having that 498 00:25:26,755 --> 00:25:30,636 Speaker 1: tension around understanding one another. Just kind of give us 499 00:25:30,676 --> 00:25:33,115 Speaker 1: a glimpse so that you know, we're just keeping it 500 00:25:33,156 --> 00:25:36,355 Speaker 1: real here that you know, there are things that that 501 00:25:36,356 --> 00:25:39,676 Speaker 1: that that in sickness and in health that hits the 502 00:25:39,715 --> 00:25:40,556 Speaker 1: marriage dynamic. 503 00:25:41,116 --> 00:25:44,196 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think my poor husband, I should give 504 00:25:44,235 --> 00:25:46,356 Speaker 2: a little background for him. He has been a Type 505 00:25:46,356 --> 00:25:48,755 Speaker 2: one diabetic since he was eleven years old, and so 506 00:25:48,995 --> 00:25:51,596 Speaker 2: as someone who has dealt with a lifelong illness, I mean, 507 00:25:51,596 --> 00:25:54,676 Speaker 2: if he doesn't take insulin, he dies, you know. So yeah, 508 00:25:54,796 --> 00:25:56,515 Speaker 2: very black and white. This is you have to just 509 00:25:56,556 --> 00:25:58,516 Speaker 2: deal with your disease. And he's been that way since 510 00:25:58,515 --> 00:26:01,515 Speaker 2: he was a young child, and so for him He 511 00:26:01,556 --> 00:26:04,996 Speaker 2: has never been someone who's really wanted to identify himself 512 00:26:05,035 --> 00:26:07,156 Speaker 2: by his disease. It's just part of his life. It's 513 00:26:07,196 --> 00:26:09,475 Speaker 2: not his whole life. And so I think for him too, 514 00:26:09,995 --> 00:26:12,715 Speaker 2: he would like for me to sort of be like 515 00:26:12,796 --> 00:26:15,475 Speaker 2: that as well. Now he will give you the caveat 516 00:26:15,515 --> 00:26:18,316 Speaker 2: that his disease does not cause pain for the most part, 517 00:26:18,356 --> 00:26:20,595 Speaker 2: and so is just a different kind of teacher in 518 00:26:20,636 --> 00:26:22,755 Speaker 2: a lot of ways, and he would admit that. But 519 00:26:22,955 --> 00:26:26,315 Speaker 2: he's also he's my husband. He wants to fix it. 520 00:26:26,475 --> 00:26:29,636 Speaker 2: He wants me to be happy. He feels responsible for 521 00:26:29,755 --> 00:26:32,876 Speaker 2: my happiness, you know, in some ways. And so there 522 00:26:32,876 --> 00:26:36,755 Speaker 2: were many times in our marriage where my struggle with pain, 523 00:26:37,196 --> 00:26:39,595 Speaker 2: I would get bogged down in that tunnel vision of 524 00:26:39,916 --> 00:26:42,196 Speaker 2: I just don't know, I can't think about anything else 525 00:26:42,436 --> 00:26:44,876 Speaker 2: at this moment because I'm just hurting so much. And 526 00:26:44,876 --> 00:26:46,515 Speaker 2: I think he would sort of want to move me 527 00:26:46,596 --> 00:26:48,996 Speaker 2: along to the Romans eight twenty eight of it all. 528 00:26:49,116 --> 00:26:51,515 Speaker 2: You know, God works all things together for good, and 529 00:26:51,556 --> 00:26:56,035 Speaker 2: he would say pushing me to a sanctifying point was 530 00:26:56,076 --> 00:26:58,315 Speaker 2: too harsh, and so he wrote it, actually wrote a 531 00:26:58,316 --> 00:27:00,556 Speaker 2: section in the back of this book to that end, 532 00:27:00,596 --> 00:27:04,876 Speaker 2: to encourage spouses and parents, caregivers, friends, don't rush your 533 00:27:04,916 --> 00:27:09,315 Speaker 2: loved one to the spiritual lesson of their suffering. Trust 534 00:27:09,356 --> 00:27:12,076 Speaker 2: that God will do that. You can encourage them when 535 00:27:12,076 --> 00:27:15,676 Speaker 2: they're doing well in that area, but do not treat 536 00:27:15,676 --> 00:27:19,836 Speaker 2: God's word like a hammer. And so he has learned that. 537 00:27:19,916 --> 00:27:22,036 Speaker 2: I have learned it. I've learned to say to him, Hey, 538 00:27:22,076 --> 00:27:26,075 Speaker 2: that's not encouraging. What would encourage me is if you 539 00:27:26,116 --> 00:27:28,555 Speaker 2: would just pray for me right now and so. And 540 00:27:29,235 --> 00:27:32,836 Speaker 2: because he loves me and is you know, wants what's 541 00:27:32,876 --> 00:27:35,036 Speaker 2: best for me, he will do he. I will say, 542 00:27:35,076 --> 00:27:38,716 Speaker 2: to his credit, any treatment, no matter how expensive, no 543 00:27:38,755 --> 00:27:41,796 Speaker 2: matter how weird, anything, because with auto immune disease there's 544 00:27:41,836 --> 00:27:44,196 Speaker 2: just no end to strange things you can try. He 545 00:27:44,235 --> 00:27:47,795 Speaker 2: has said yes to everything every time, and I just 546 00:27:47,916 --> 00:27:50,955 Speaker 2: am so grateful he was. His whole goal has been 547 00:27:51,876 --> 00:27:53,916 Speaker 2: to be my support. He's just had to learn how 548 00:27:53,916 --> 00:27:55,436 Speaker 2: to do it, and I've had to learn how to 549 00:27:55,475 --> 00:27:59,995 Speaker 2: tell him. And so it took me a long time 550 00:28:00,076 --> 00:28:02,795 Speaker 2: to sort of get to that joy you were talking 551 00:28:02,836 --> 00:28:06,796 Speaker 2: about with this disease. But I will say spending those 552 00:28:06,876 --> 00:28:10,196 Speaker 2: years in my Bible, in those early morning hours is 553 00:28:10,235 --> 00:28:12,596 Speaker 2: what has led to me being able to cope with 554 00:28:12,636 --> 00:28:15,755 Speaker 2: my disease. In my early days, I was bitter, and 555 00:28:15,796 --> 00:28:18,036 Speaker 2: it is God's worth that's really moved me past that. 556 00:28:18,116 --> 00:28:20,676 Speaker 2: But my husband would tell you it's been a long process. 557 00:28:20,755 --> 00:28:22,755 Speaker 1: It's been a long process, in fact, and people can 558 00:28:22,796 --> 00:28:24,995 Speaker 1: look at your books like Memorizing Scripture. You have a 559 00:28:25,035 --> 00:28:27,316 Speaker 1: book and I read that, like why did you write 560 00:28:27,316 --> 00:28:32,595 Speaker 1: this book? Because I was angry? Angry? I loved that. 561 00:28:32,715 --> 00:28:36,955 Speaker 1: I just thought that was awesome. Oh my gosh, we 562 00:28:36,955 --> 00:28:38,996 Speaker 1: could talk about this river. I have one last question, 563 00:28:39,076 --> 00:28:43,635 Speaker 1: and this has been so helpful your kids. How do 564 00:28:43,676 --> 00:28:46,956 Speaker 1: you communicate when a parent is suffering? How do you 565 00:28:46,996 --> 00:28:49,676 Speaker 1: communicate that to a child? And just what impact do 566 00:28:49,716 --> 00:28:51,396 Speaker 1: you think this has had on your kids. 567 00:28:52,076 --> 00:28:55,076 Speaker 2: I think it has helped my kids to learn empathy. 568 00:28:55,156 --> 00:28:57,756 Speaker 2: I've got two very different children, As most people, their 569 00:28:57,796 --> 00:29:00,315 Speaker 2: kids are all very different. One of my kids is 570 00:29:00,356 --> 00:29:03,436 Speaker 2: not necessarily what I would call a mercy person, and 571 00:29:03,676 --> 00:29:06,835 Speaker 2: I think growing up with a mom who struggles with 572 00:29:06,876 --> 00:29:10,876 Speaker 2: pain and a dad who is a diabetic, he has learned. 573 00:29:11,436 --> 00:29:14,236 Speaker 2: He's learned empathy and that's been really good for him 574 00:29:14,276 --> 00:29:18,196 Speaker 2: because it's not a natural part of his personality. And 575 00:29:18,276 --> 00:29:21,796 Speaker 2: so my other child is just a natural impath, and 576 00:29:21,836 --> 00:29:24,396 Speaker 2: so he's the one. When I am not feeling well, 577 00:29:24,436 --> 00:29:25,916 Speaker 2: He's like, Mom, do you need an ice back? You 578 00:29:25,916 --> 00:29:27,596 Speaker 2: want your heating bad? Do you want a glass of water? 579 00:29:27,636 --> 00:29:28,676 Speaker 2: Where's your water about? You know? 580 00:29:29,236 --> 00:29:29,476 Speaker 1: To me? 581 00:29:29,516 --> 00:29:31,396 Speaker 2: Bringing some time and all like he's the one. He's 582 00:29:31,476 --> 00:29:35,276 Speaker 2: my little doctor man, you know. And so I look 583 00:29:35,316 --> 00:29:38,916 Speaker 2: at those things and I think, Oh, if they marry 584 00:29:38,956 --> 00:29:43,436 Speaker 2: someday or whatever their jobs might be, I think they'll 585 00:29:43,476 --> 00:29:46,996 Speaker 2: be a blessing because they have had this experience growing up. 586 00:29:47,756 --> 00:29:52,156 Speaker 2: I think it's also taught them that life is not 587 00:29:52,356 --> 00:29:57,996 Speaker 2: perfect and that we do have these light and momentary troubles. 588 00:29:58,876 --> 00:30:02,876 Speaker 2: And I have had to talk about heaven a lot 589 00:30:02,916 --> 00:30:05,956 Speaker 2: with them, because that's what keeps me going, is knowing 590 00:30:05,996 --> 00:30:07,835 Speaker 2: that this is not all there is. And so I 591 00:30:07,876 --> 00:30:11,116 Speaker 2: hope as they as they age and get older, they'll 592 00:30:11,196 --> 00:30:15,276 Speaker 2: have maybe a quicker understanding of the hope of heaven 593 00:30:15,356 --> 00:30:16,876 Speaker 2: than I did. You know, it took me a long 594 00:30:16,916 --> 00:30:19,716 Speaker 2: time to get here, So you know, I pray that 595 00:30:19,796 --> 00:30:22,756 Speaker 2: the Lord will turn them into men of compassion who 596 00:30:22,876 --> 00:30:25,716 Speaker 2: will care for their spouses if they marry, and be 597 00:30:25,876 --> 00:30:28,395 Speaker 2: those people in the church who care for those who 598 00:30:28,436 --> 00:30:28,956 Speaker 2: are hurting. 599 00:30:29,956 --> 00:30:33,476 Speaker 1: This has been amazing, Glenna. Any last thoughts you want 600 00:30:33,516 --> 00:30:35,516 Speaker 1: to share and then tell us how we can find 601 00:30:35,516 --> 00:30:36,956 Speaker 1: out more about you and your book. 602 00:30:37,356 --> 00:30:39,835 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want you to know. If you're listening 603 00:30:39,916 --> 00:30:42,196 Speaker 2: to this and you have a chronic condition that causes 604 00:30:42,236 --> 00:30:46,115 Speaker 2: a lot of pain, I know how isolating that feels. 605 00:30:46,476 --> 00:30:49,276 Speaker 2: I have all these memories of being alone in the 606 00:30:49,356 --> 00:30:53,396 Speaker 2: dark in my house and no one can see my illness. 607 00:30:53,396 --> 00:30:55,355 Speaker 2: I look perfectly healthy if you were to look at me. 608 00:30:55,716 --> 00:30:58,236 Speaker 2: But the Lord knows, and the Lord sees, and the 609 00:30:58,276 --> 00:31:01,596 Speaker 2: Lord is with you in the dark night of your suffering. 610 00:31:01,636 --> 00:31:04,076 Speaker 2: It is not unseen by the Lord, and he cares 611 00:31:04,116 --> 00:31:07,596 Speaker 2: for you, and so turn to him. He's the only 612 00:31:07,636 --> 00:31:09,396 Speaker 2: one who can do anything about it. And if he 613 00:31:09,476 --> 00:31:13,996 Speaker 2: chooses to give you the thorn of suffering to steward, 614 00:31:14,636 --> 00:31:17,556 Speaker 2: then know he will not waste your pain. And so 615 00:31:17,756 --> 00:31:21,876 Speaker 2: I wrote this book for you specifically so that you 616 00:31:21,956 --> 00:31:26,556 Speaker 2: would find joy and endurance in your suffering. So you 617 00:31:26,596 --> 00:31:29,636 Speaker 2: can find me on my website. I keep an old 618 00:31:29,636 --> 00:31:33,396 Speaker 2: fashioned blog, so it's just Glennamarshall dot com and. 619 00:31:33,356 --> 00:31:36,316 Speaker 1: We will have that link in the show notes. Glenna Marshall, 620 00:31:36,476 --> 00:31:39,476 Speaker 1: the book is Praying in Pain, How to know you're 621 00:31:39,556 --> 00:31:44,116 Speaker 1: heard when you haven't been healed. Those four steps, lament, 622 00:31:44,836 --> 00:31:49,196 Speaker 1: cry out, remember, resolve, Glenna, Thank you so much. This 623 00:31:49,316 --> 00:31:50,956 Speaker 1: has been just such a rich time. 624 00:31:50,996 --> 00:31:52,636 Speaker 2: Thank you, oh thanks for having me. 625 00:31:53,996 --> 00:31:57,316 Speaker 1: I hope you've enjoyed today's conversation. I'd love to keep 626 00:31:57,356 --> 00:32:00,996 Speaker 1: in touch beyond this podcast. Click subscribe in the show 627 00:32:01,036 --> 00:32:03,636 Speaker 1: notes and I will give you my latest email to 628 00:32:03,716 --> 00:32:07,556 Speaker 1: keep up on what's happening with technology and kids. And 629 00:32:07,596 --> 00:32:10,476 Speaker 1: maybe you like reading or listening to books. I have 630 00:32:10,556 --> 00:32:13,236 Speaker 1: a lot of books. You could start with The Big Three, 631 00:32:13,676 --> 00:32:19,315 Speaker 1: Making Marriage Easier, Parents Rising, or Screen Kids. Thank you 632 00:32:19,356 --> 00:32:21,876 Speaker 1: to the team at Life Audio for their partnership with 633 00:32:21,916 --> 00:32:25,356 Speaker 1: the Happy Home podcast. Check out lifeaudio dot com for 634 00:32:25,516 --> 00:32:29,756 Speaker 1: dozens of other faith related podcasts about prayer, Bible study, 635 00:32:29,836 --> 00:32:33,075 Speaker 1: and more. Remember you don't have to come from a 636 00:32:33,156 --> 00:32:36,595 Speaker 1: happy home to create one. You two can have a 637 00:32:36,676 --> 00:32:37,355 Speaker 1: happy homes.