Speaker 1: Life Audio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the Praying Christian Women podcast. I
Speaker 2: am Alana here with Jamie.
Speaker 1: How are you doing great? I'm feeling really good.
Speaker 3: The voice is back and I'm not so hoarse and
Speaker 3: feeling good.
Speaker 2: Based on our topic, I'm picturing Glinda in the original
Speaker 2: Wizard of Oz or like, are you a good witch
Speaker 2: or are you a bad witch? Which are you feeling
Speaker 2: like today?
Speaker 3: I'm feeling like, okay, So if I feel like a
Speaker 3: good witch, does that make me bad? I'm feeling like
Speaker 3: a bad witch because I'm not into sorcery and witchcraft.
Speaker 2: So it's a trick question. It's like you know, asking
Speaker 2: somebody are you lying to me or something?
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, okay, hold on, well.
Speaker 2: We are back to talk more about which is witchcraft,
Speaker 2: what's to be spiritually discerning regarding and I have absolutely
Speaker 2: seen an increase in what some people would call which
Speaker 2: he practices. I think you when I would probably call
Speaker 2: it more just sort of woo woo stuff in mainstream
Speaker 2: self help and things like that, even in some alternative
Speaker 2: healing circles. And so I think it's important for us
Speaker 2: as Christians to recognize we're not talking about people five
Speaker 2: hundred years ago who went on trial. We're talking about
Speaker 2: things that impact our lives today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like when I was growing up, kind
Speaker 3: of in my tween and teen years and then maybe
Speaker 3: into the Frank Peretti years. I'm not sure when his
Speaker 3: stuff came out, probably more my teenage young adult years,
Speaker 3: but Frank Peretti, for those that don't know, we're like
Speaker 3: this present darkness and like some of the very spiritual warfarey.
Speaker 1: Kind of things.
Speaker 3: And the big antagonist in those books was like the
Speaker 3: New Age, you know, like New Age was kind of
Speaker 3: seeping into the preschools and into the community. And the
Speaker 3: New Age of that era, I feel like was different
Speaker 3: from what we're seeing now. I don't know if I
Speaker 3: could put my finger on it, but I just feel
Speaker 3: like it's it used to be so compartmentalized and different
Speaker 3: from Christianity, and I believe that today, I think it's
Speaker 3: seeped in, and I think that Christianity has adopted some
Speaker 3: kind of just I don't know, like absorbed some of
Speaker 3: the New agey kind of language and beliefs. And at
Speaker 3: the same time, as the more I learn about some
Speaker 3: of the language that's used in some of the New
Speaker 3: age circles that have nothing to do with Jesus, I
Speaker 3: can actually glean biblical you know, we've talked about this,
Speaker 3: We've had all kinds of conversations about manifesting and you know,
Speaker 3: energy and frequencies and different things.
Speaker 1: This language that's being used, and I.
Speaker 3: Believe that there are just like there is with everything,
Speaker 3: there are elements of truth in some of these things
Speaker 3: that can be parallel to what we see in the Bible.
Speaker 3: But it's getting muddied, and I think we need to
Speaker 3: talk about it so we can tease out what is biblical,
Speaker 3: what is evil, and what is just kind of somewhere
Speaker 3: in between.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. There's a phrase that a Christian psychologist kind of
Speaker 2: early pioneer coined. I think it's Larry to Krap who
Speaker 2: coined it. He called it plundering the Egyptians. And so
Speaker 2: when the Israelites are fleeing Egypt, the Egyptians are giving
Speaker 2: them like they're jewels and they're giving them gifts, basically
Speaker 2: being like, tell your God to stop destroying our nation.
Speaker 2: And his use of the phrase plundering the Egyptians was
Speaker 2: let's take what we can from secular science and secular
Speaker 2: practice and use it if it works in the church, right, Like,
Speaker 2: just because the person who created a tool that's you
Speaker 2: to build the physical building that your church works and
Speaker 2: wasn't a Christian doesn't mean that you're wrong to use
Speaker 2: that tool right to physically build your church. And sometimes we,
Speaker 2: or at least in certain circles, are like, well, if
Speaker 2: it's not right from the Bible, or if the person
Speaker 2: who spearheaded this philosophy was not a Christian whose theology
Speaker 2: lines up with everything I believe, then the foundation's faulty,
Speaker 2: and therefore we've got to throw it all out. And
Speaker 2: I would wager that there are some times where, yes,
Speaker 2: if the foundation is that faulty, maybe you do.
Speaker 1: Throw it all out. Right.
Speaker 2: That's why in our last episode, a lot of Christians
Speaker 2: in our family, for a good chunk of when our
Speaker 2: kids were very young, like we had as little to
Speaker 2: do with Halloween as we possibly could. And for people
Speaker 2: who didn't listen to the last week's episode, I'm also
Speaker 2: not stating that that is how every Christian family should
Speaker 2: react to the holiday. They were going to be talking
Speaker 2: about all this kind of stuff and basically learning what
Speaker 2: do you keep, what do you throw out? What is
Speaker 2: so tainted that you've just got to get rid of it.
Speaker 2: And what maybe has a little negative truth in it
Speaker 2: that you can easily sift out from all the other junk.
Speaker 2: But what is so corrupted by what it's enthrouded in
Speaker 2: that we don't even want to touch it.
Speaker 3: One of the spinoff topics that I think we're going
Speaker 3: to focus on a lot today from Witchcraft is looking
Speaker 3: for signs. We touched on Gideon asking laying out the fleece,
Speaker 3: which is, well, we'll go into that a little bit
Speaker 3: if you haven't heard of that. That is basically him saying, God,
Speaker 3: you told me something. I want to know if this
Speaker 3: is really what's going to happen, And he laid out
Speaker 3: this fleece and asked for kind of a miracle to
Speaker 3: prove it. Tea leaves were mentioned, so, you know, looking
Speaker 3: for signs. There's so much the language today, there's so
Speaker 3: much of this the universe sent me a sign, or
Speaker 3: I just love it when when the universe drops me signs.
Speaker 3: But a parallel language could be, hey, I love it
Speaker 3: when God sends me a godwink or a sign. You know,
Speaker 3: So what is it? What is correct? How do we
Speaker 3: think about these things? So I'm going to start off,
Speaker 3: you know, we're going to be talking about like signs
Speaker 3: and things like reading the tea leaves, and I'm just
Speaker 3: going to give us a couple of verses that lay
Speaker 3: the foundation for these practices and just kind of go
Speaker 3: through and talk through them. So Deuteronomy eighteen ten ten
Speaker 3: through twelve says, let no one be found among you
Speaker 3: who practice practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft.
Speaker 3: Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord.
Speaker 3: And then Leviticus nineteen twenty six, do not practice divination
Speaker 3: or seat omens. So, you know, we kind of talked
Speaker 3: a little bit about this before, but like these practices
Speaker 3: were kind of, I don't know, the people of Israel
Speaker 3: were surrounded on all sides by paganism, like the Canaanites,
Speaker 3: the Philistines, like they had not only pagan beliefs, but
Speaker 3: some of them like overtly evil and you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: like burning their kids to sacrifice to these gods. And
Speaker 3: so the words that are used here's it's pretty much
Speaker 3: looking for signs that help you make a decision, but
Speaker 3: not just asking God, but looking to other means like
Speaker 3: trying to take a shortcut. I'm convinced that the reasons
Speaker 3: that he gave these commands not to do these things
Speaker 3: were because there were spiritual forces that were not God,
Speaker 3: that there were dark forces that could their way into
Speaker 3: any open door that people gave them.
Speaker 1: And or, on the other hand, if.
Speaker 3: They just left themselves open to whatever sign, like hey
Speaker 3: let it be sunny tomorrow. If I'm supposed to marry
Speaker 3: this person, that's not seeking God's guidance, that's just leaving
Speaker 3: it to chance. So I think there are two different
Speaker 3: things at work, either just superstition leading to chance or
Speaker 3: actually opening yourself up to a dark force, whether it's
Speaker 3: a spear guide, whether it's an influencer in determining an
Speaker 3: outcome based on one of these things.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think it's similar to the spectrum that
Speaker 2: we talked about earlier about like fortune cookie to like
Speaker 2: Chinsey horoscope to fortune telling to whatever goes even beyond that,
Speaker 2: you know, seance or something. And I think in a
Speaker 2: lot of these questions there is something that does begin
Speaker 2: with something innocuous like flipping a coin. To me, I'm
Speaker 2: not inviting the devil into my soul. If I'm like,
Speaker 2: do I want an apple or an orange, and I
Speaker 2: can't decide, so I flip a coin.
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Is that one hundred and eighty degrees different than casting lots?
Speaker 2: I see them as on a similar spectrum at the
Speaker 2: very least. Right, So, if we have flipping a coin
Speaker 2: to make a decision as being in almost every case,
Speaker 2: can you think of a case for flipping a coin
Speaker 2: would actually be spiritually dangerous? Like it might not be
Speaker 2: the wisest right, I'm gonna flip a coin to determine
Speaker 2: if I'm gonna, you know, marry this guy. Not a
Speaker 2: wise choice. But do you think it's it's ever could
Speaker 2: open you up to spiritually being manipulated?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think if you go into it,
Speaker 3: I mean I think your heart condition, your intention going
Speaker 3: into something is definitely a good litmus test, Like am
Speaker 3: I going into this? That's a bad example, because you
Speaker 3: can have good intentions and still have a bad outcome.
Speaker 3: For instance, let's say I was really tempted to literally
Speaker 3: when we were making the decision whether or not to
Speaker 3: allow our then sixth grader go back to public school
Speaker 3: in middle school or keep him homeschooled. It was one
Speaker 3: of the most like grueling decisions of our parenting, and
Speaker 3: we kept coming back different and we were like, God
Speaker 3: give us unity, and I was both of us were like,
Speaker 3: should we just flip a coin? Honestly?
Speaker 1: Should we just say God help us?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: And I think I use the word casting lots. Should
Speaker 3: we just cast lots and see if God does that?
Speaker 3: And I do think that when you try to take
Speaker 3: a shortcut from hearing from God in a genuine way,
Speaker 3: that it could open you up to potential evil inserting itself.
Speaker 2: I could absolutely agree with you on that, you know,
Speaker 2: especially like I'm taking it to a comical extreme and
Speaker 2: I'm picturing you and Matt like with a six sided
Speaker 2: Monopoly game die and like taking five minutes to pray
Speaker 2: over this die and you know, and then you know,
Speaker 2: doing some kind of ritual before you roll it. Like
Speaker 2: to me, yeah, that that's actually that doesn't pass my
Speaker 2: spiritual debt check.
Speaker 3: But this kind of brings us to Gideon's fleece because
Speaker 3: Gideon did this, So why don't we just go ahead
Speaker 3: and read about that? Because this is one of the
Speaker 3: most like confusing things, you know in some ways, because
Speaker 3: it is it seems to kind of go against this idea.
Speaker 3: So Gideon in Judges chapter six, verses thirty six through
Speaker 3: forty in the NIV, Gideon said to God, if you
Speaker 3: will save Israel by my hand, as you have promised,
Speaker 3: so this is the first thing. Apparently God had already
Speaker 3: told Gideon in that and I didn't go back to
Speaker 3: see the way that God told him. But Gideon is saying,
Speaker 3: you've already said that you're going to save Israel by
Speaker 3: my hand. I'm not sure. I really, really really want
Speaker 3: to be sure that I heard you right. I will
Speaker 3: place a wool fleece on the threshing floor. If there
Speaker 3: is dew only on the fleece and all the ground
Speaker 3: is dry, then I'll know that you will save Israel
Speaker 3: by my hand as you said. And that is what happened.
Speaker 3: Gideon rose early in the next day. He squeezed the fleece,
Speaker 3: wrung out the dew a bowlful of water, so we're
Speaker 3: not talking like a dusting. Then Gideon said to God,
Speaker 3: don't be angry with me. Let me make just one
Speaker 3: more request. Allow me one more test with the fleece,
Speaker 3: but this time, make the fleece dry and the ground
Speaker 3: be covered with dew. That night, God did so. Only
Speaker 3: the fleece was dry, all the ground was covered with dew.
Speaker 3: So this is Gideon heard from God. He's trying to
Speaker 3: confirm it, and he asks this insane thing, and he says,
Speaker 3: don't be angry with me the second time he does it,
Speaker 3: which is implying that he knows that he's kind of
Speaker 3: testing God. And so I mean, I have to come
Speaker 3: away from this like if I were to do this
Speaker 3: exact thing, if Matt and I had just said, all right,
Speaker 3: we're going to do exactly what Gideon did.
Speaker 1: We're literally going to lay this.
Speaker 3: You know, I killed a sheep last hunting season and
Speaker 3: we have this piece of wool. We're literally going to
Speaker 3: reproduce this.
Speaker 2: Could you just shear the sheep so a little baby
Speaker 2: sheep doesn't have to die?
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Well, it wasn't. It wasn't a baby. It wasn't.
Speaker 3: It was very It was an old sheep, but it
Speaker 3: died of natural causes. We simply okay, no, But I
Speaker 3: have to say, and maybe I don't believe that the
Speaker 3: miracle would have happened.
Speaker 1: I just don't.
Speaker 3: And maybe I'm woman of little faith, but I really
Speaker 3: think that if we had said we think, let's say
Speaker 3: that we had some kind of because so he's not
Speaker 3: trying to make a decision first of all, one way
Speaker 3: or another, yes or no. He's saying, I think I
Speaker 3: heard from you, confirm it this way. But even if
Speaker 3: we had made a decision like, Okay, we think Joey's
Speaker 3: gonna stay home and do homeschool for another year. If
Speaker 3: we're right, if we think we heard from you, right,
Speaker 3: do this exact thing. I have to tell you. I
Speaker 3: don't think that the next day I would go outside
Speaker 3: and be able to squeeze a bowlful of water out
Speaker 3: of that skin and the rest of the grass beat
Speaker 3: totally fine.
Speaker 1: Or you know right?
Speaker 3: So then what if you say, I think I know
Speaker 3: what you're saying, and you test God and it doesn't
Speaker 3: get confirmed, what do you do?
Speaker 2: Then there's a hard one because I think in the
Speaker 2: scenarrey you you're presenting, it kind of makes the fleece
Speaker 2: the magic yeah, and less about God. Now. I think
Speaker 2: that sometimes I've heard different interpretations of Gideon in his fleece.
Speaker 2: I don't see anything that leads us to believe that
Speaker 2: Gideon was wrong for doing what he did. Right now,
Speaker 2: he was afraid that God would be mad, but it
Speaker 2: never says that God was even close to getting mad
Speaker 2: at him.
Speaker 3: No, it reminds me of Thomas when he asked Jesus.
Speaker 3: It reminds me exactly of that story where he could
Speaker 3: have said, as he did many times, you of little faith,
Speaker 3: and shook his head.
Speaker 1: But he didn't. He was just like, hey, didn't, come on,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna show you.
Speaker 2: And it reminders are so hard on Thomas, and it
Speaker 2: always irks me exactly like you said, Jesus does not
Speaker 2: chide him. Jesus presents to him the proof that he
Speaker 2: said he needed. And I think about the Brian church
Speaker 2: in Acts and when they're presented with the Gospel, they
Speaker 2: are applauded for going back and seeing if what they
Speaker 2: heard is true. In scripture, Gideon did not have the
Speaker 2: Bible to like the full Bible to read and to
Speaker 2: say Gideon will go and defeat the Midianites. So we
Speaker 2: have three options, and the Bible doesn't tell us which.
Speaker 2: Either Gideon had very little faith and God was getting
Speaker 2: angry with him but put up with his demands for
Speaker 2: a sign, or Gideon was actually really wise to test
Speaker 2: this crazy notion and make sure that it wasn't coming
Speaker 2: from his own delusions of brand ear and God was
Speaker 2: he was doing exactly what God wanted to have his
Speaker 2: will confirmed, or maybe somewhere in the middle, maybe it
Speaker 2: was just kind of a neutral thing. God was like, oh, yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: if you need another sign, here you go, and like
Speaker 2: there's no emotion attached to it whatsoever. You know. It's
Speaker 2: like when your kid asks you for a cup of
Speaker 2: water and you're like, okay, here you go, you know,
Speaker 2: And that's literally all there is to it. Now, we
Speaker 2: can't read all of that into it. We don't know
Speaker 2: that God was getting tired of Gideon's lack of faith.
Speaker 2: We don't know that Gideon was doing something wrong. We
Speaker 2: don't know that maybe Gideon was doing exactly the right
Speaker 2: thing to be wise and to test the verse that
Speaker 2: you always love to go back to, don't treat prophecy
Speaker 2: with contempt, test everything in a way. That's exactly what
Speaker 2: Gideon's doing. He's not discarding the prophecy that God gave
Speaker 2: him that he would defeat the mini Nites, but he's
Speaker 2: also testing it. So literally, I don't think we have
Speaker 2: enough information to know if Gideon was doing the right
Speaker 2: thing or the wrong thing, or somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 2: Now here's another really interesting thing, because if I'm in
Speaker 2: your scenario about the homeschool question, and I truly do
Speaker 2: want to sign, I wouldn't pick a police I would
Speaker 2: pick something like I've done this before. If I'm supposed
Speaker 2: to go to fred Meyer before I go home, let
Speaker 2: this light be green, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 2: here's the thing. I think that sometimes we attribute Holy Spirit,
Speaker 2: Big D discernment to things that are just our subconscious
Speaker 2: talking to us. So by that, what I mean is
Speaker 2: I think it's wrong to attribute it to God, but
Speaker 2: I don't think it's wrong to test what's in your subconscience.
Speaker 2: Let's say I am trying to decide do I want
Speaker 2: to fly down to Utah and see Jamie, And in
Speaker 2: my brain, I'm like, here's all the pros, here's all
Speaker 2: the cons I've prayed about it. God hasn't given me
Speaker 2: a green light or a red light. So I decide
Speaker 2: that I am going to put out a fleece, my
Speaker 2: fleece just because I know me, and I'm going to
Speaker 2: be very honest and transparent with you my fleece.
Speaker 1: Even if I.
Speaker 2: Went into it with a open mind and the best
Speaker 2: of intentions as possible would be something that would be
Speaker 2: more likely to happen than not if I was meant
Speaker 2: to go visit you, because I know that I want
Speaker 2: to go visit you. Yeah, to me, that's not bad,
Speaker 2: that's not evil. The only danger is if I attribute
Speaker 2: it to God. But really it's just my desire talking
Speaker 2: to me. But like, for people who can't make a decision,
Speaker 2: were you Are you even the one who told me
Speaker 2: this trick? If you can't make a decision and you
Speaker 2: just flip a coin, not to decide, but to see
Speaker 2: how you feel.
Speaker 1: No, you told me that I told you that you did?
Speaker 1: You did?
Speaker 3: You told me that we were talking about it in
Speaker 3: an episode, And that is one of my favorite things
Speaker 3: I've taught all my kids that I'm like, if you
Speaker 3: can't make a decision and you're not feeling guided in
Speaker 3: any way.
Speaker 1: Flip a coin.
Speaker 3: And I'm not about huge things necessarily, but maybe for
Speaker 3: big things, but flip a coin. See how you feel
Speaker 3: about that. Are you disappointed? And that might reveal what
Speaker 3: really is the best thing to do? Are you excited?
Speaker 3: Are you thankful?
Speaker 1: And so? Our daughter's very indecisive.
Speaker 3: She loves to you know, she loves to ask other
Speaker 3: people what she should do, and I'm like, you have
Speaker 3: to make that decision yourself. But I told her that
Speaker 3: this is a really good way to help reveal what
Speaker 3: you truly want. And I think the reason she has
Speaker 3: a hard time is she's a people pleaser and she's
Speaker 3: always anticipating, well, what if I do this, will this
Speaker 3: person mind? If I do this, will this person mind?
Speaker 3: I think it helps us get in tune with what's
Speaker 3: inside of us and how we really feel about something.
Speaker 3: And maybe again, that's good what the Holy Spirit is
Speaker 3: saying to us. Maybe it's helping us get in tune
Speaker 3: with that still small voice in a.
Speaker 4: Way, maybe where I would differ because I think in
Speaker 4: that case, there's still small voice is your will.
Speaker 1: And I don't think it's wrong to talk.
Speaker 2: I think all of us need to.
Speaker 1: Tap into our will.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially as women and especially as people. Please, we
Speaker 2: are taughts to not listen. But I think that often
Speaker 2: the still small voice that we are learning to listen
Speaker 2: to is really just our own and that's okay too, right.
Speaker 2: So again, if we're talking about little things, should I
Speaker 2: go to the mall with this friend or should I
Speaker 2: go to the movies with that friend? And she feels
Speaker 2: like either way, someone's going to be let down. And
Speaker 2: she says, Okay, I'm gonna flip a coin.
Speaker 1: And here's the thing.
Speaker 2: The coin is not going to tell her which to choose.
Speaker 1: I think that's that's part.
Speaker 3: The coin isn't telling you what to choose. It's revealing
Speaker 3: what you already wanted.
Speaker 2: So basically, the way you do it is just like, Okay,
Speaker 2: if it's A, I go to the mall.
Speaker 1: If it's B, I go to the movies.
Speaker 2: You flip the coin. If it lands on A and
Speaker 2: you feel happy, that means you wanted to go to
Speaker 2: the movie right. If it lands on B and you
Speaker 2: feel sad, that means you should go to the movie
Speaker 2: right or whichever. I forget which one was, as I know,
Speaker 2: but yeah, no, we get it. So we're not attributing
Speaker 2: any magical power to the coin. I think that it's
Speaker 2: important to not attribute divine power to that voice. I
Speaker 2: don't think that's the voice of God. I think that's
Speaker 2: just us, especially as women, who have a hard time
Speaker 2: knowing what we want, learning how to ask ourselves what
Speaker 2: do I want? You know, like it sounds really silly,
Speaker 2: but sometimes like ask your stomach or ask your tongue,
Speaker 2: what do you want to eat right now? Like, and
Speaker 2: take a minute to listen. You're not praying to God
Speaker 2: right like. I think it's actually dangerous to attribute like
Speaker 2: holy spirit power to this. I think it's just a
Speaker 2: good practice to learn how to voice what you want.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that is kind of what it
Speaker 3: boils down to, is if you're looking for signs, if
Speaker 3: you're looking for who you're attributing it to. In terms
Speaker 3: of the coin flipping, now, omens are kind of another thing.
Speaker 3: I think so omens are more like things like you know,
Speaker 3: the if the crow flies over your head, someone's gonna die,
Speaker 3: or if you hear an al hooting three times, then.
Speaker 2: Things that are meant to be bad lack or that
Speaker 2: kind of.
Speaker 3: Thing right or impending doom. So again, I feel like
Speaker 3: I just have to go back. And you know, Israel
Speaker 3: was not meant to seek guidance, well we go to
Speaker 3: war or not. You know, well I saw a crow
Speaker 3: fly by, and so yes, we should go to war
Speaker 3: because that's a sign, or seeking advice from the dead,
Speaker 3: trying to communicate with with with spirits of those who
Speaker 3: have passed, or ancestors for wisdom and I go back
Speaker 3: to Israel was surrounded by pagan nations, and I don't
Speaker 3: doubt that some of those, you know, like Bail and
Speaker 3: you know, these these different pagan gods, I don't doubt
Speaker 3: that there were principalities behind them, evil spirits and all
Speaker 3: of these things, the omens, the magic, the necromancy, the
Speaker 3: medium ship, is all opening doors for evil to influence
Speaker 3: the actions of God's people.
Speaker 1: And and so.
Speaker 3: I really think that a lot of this protective measure
Speaker 3: was to protect evil from masquerading as truth and good
Speaker 3: and leading people astray. And if we take that concept
Speaker 3: and we PLoP it into today, it's a very similar thing.
Speaker 3: It's like, where are you opening yourself up for evil
Speaker 3: to masquerade as truth to guide you and help you
Speaker 3: make decisions or help you gain knowledge or wisdom about
Speaker 3: how the world works. And like you alluded to earlier,
Speaker 3: it all boils down to God's word in our hands.
Speaker 3: We have God's word in our hands, and we have
Speaker 3: the Holy Spirit living in us, which Gideon didn't have.
Speaker 3: He had the Holy Spirit would alight here and there
Speaker 3: and help people and talk to people, but he didn't
Speaker 3: have the Holy Spirit living in him. And so between
Speaker 3: that and God's word in our hands. We have everything
Speaker 3: we need, presumably to receive guidance from God. It doesn't
Speaker 3: mean that it's straightforward. It doesn't mean that we can't
Speaker 3: make mistakes even hearing from God or in interpreting his word,
Speaker 3: because we could use the Bible like a Ouiji board if
Speaker 3: we wanted.
Speaker 1: Oh for sure.
Speaker 2: And I think people do that fairly regularly. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: there's that, Well you're ready for a can of worms.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the Israelites didn't go to war because they saw
Speaker 2: a crow fly, but they cast lots, right, And that's when, like,
Speaker 2: if my kid came to me it was like, what's
Speaker 2: that about, I'd be like that, that's where we need
Speaker 2: our little soundboard button.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right it is.
Speaker 3: And the next question, please write and the Urim and
Speaker 3: thummim like on the those were stones that alleged sounds
Speaker 3: very superstitious.
Speaker 1: It does.
Speaker 2: So, you know, I think if if we went the
Speaker 2: easy Sunday school answer, I think you already hit it,
Speaker 2: and that is we have the Bible now and so
Speaker 2: there is not a need for extra biblical casting of
Speaker 2: lots or that kind of thing. I think the deepest
Speaker 2: answer is probably way more complicated than I wouldn't even
Speaker 2: know where to begin. Here's another way to look at it.
Speaker 2: I don't really think that this is This is not
Speaker 2: my opinion, but I could see some people explaining it
Speaker 2: like this. There's a verse in Proverbs that says something
Speaker 2: like the lot is cast into the lap, but it's
Speaker 2: every decision is from the Lord. And there's this idea
Speaker 2: of if you're casting lots superstitiously, God can still meet you,
Speaker 2: just like if you're playing Bible roulette right where you're
Speaker 2: trying to make an important decision. So you just open
Speaker 2: up the Bible and throw your finger on a verse
Speaker 2: and it's not what the Bible was meant for. But
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean and it's not something that I would
Speaker 2: advise somebody to do. It also doesn't mean that somebody
Speaker 2: who does it superstitiously can't be met by God in
Speaker 2: that way. So maybe it's almost a picture of God
Speaker 2: meeting us where we are.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that hits the nail on
Speaker 1: the head.
Speaker 3: I think the story of Gideon and the Fleece is
Speaker 3: about God meeting us where we are.
Speaker 1: I think I agree.
Speaker 3: I think when we are setting ourselves up with like
Speaker 3: a mindset and just living our lives in submission to
Speaker 3: God's will that we will find it. And I think
Speaker 3: these conversations are important, Like you know, if casting lots
Speaker 3: happened biblically, if the urim and thummin were used somehow
Speaker 3: for yes or nos, I mean I know that those
Speaker 3: in particular were handed down by God.
Speaker 1: It was this is what you'll do exactly.
Speaker 3: God did not hand me a set of marbles and
Speaker 3: say shake them up, and whicheverone, like you know, falls
Speaker 3: into the middle is the one that.
Speaker 1: So I think we need to separate those things.
Speaker 3: We also need to remember that not everything in the
Speaker 3: Bible is supposed to be repeated. It's an illustration of
Speaker 3: God meeting Gideon where he was. It's not an instruction
Speaker 3: manual for Oh, he had that outcome, So I need
Speaker 3: to do the same thing. And I just think we
Speaker 3: do need to hold those two things a Let's live
Speaker 3: our lives in submission to God in an earnest desire.
Speaker 3: And I think that probably had something to do with
Speaker 3: Gideon's situation, was he just desperately wanted to know what
Speaker 3: God wanted from him, and he really wanted to make
Speaker 3: sure he was hearing God right, and God honored that
Speaker 3: and blessed it. It doesn't mean he's going to do
Speaker 3: it for someone else in a separate circumstance. But on
Speaker 3: the other hand, I think we do need to absolutely
Speaker 3: guard against any doorway for evil influences, which are absolutely real.
Speaker 3: There's a spiritual battle. There are evil forces out there
Speaker 3: that can in this world, and they can manipulate physical things, presumably,
Speaker 3: I don't know for sure, but we need to make
Speaker 3: sure not to open ourselves up to anything that could,
Speaker 3: you know, allow the enemy to get a foothold. So
Speaker 3: beyond that, I think there's a lot of discernment individually
Speaker 3: that has to happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that that's a great closing point. So
Speaker 2: I don't have a blessing in front of you, so
Speaker 2: I am just going to come up with one off
Speaker 2: the top of my head. And my hope and prayer
Speaker 2: for everybody listening is that God will meet you exactly
Speaker 2: where you are, that you will give you the guidance
Speaker 2: and the words that you need in exactly the way
Speaker 2: that makes sense to you, in the language that makes
Speaker 2: sense to you, and that you will be very confident
Speaker 2: knowing that it is His voice. And I also hope
Speaker 2: and pray that we all learn to listen to our
Speaker 2: own small voice and also have the wisdom to know
Speaker 2: which is our voice and which is God's voice, and
Speaker 2: that those wouldn't be at war with each other, but
Speaker 2: it would work together beautifully in guiding us.
Speaker 1: Amen. Amen.
Speaker 3: We'd like to take just a quick second to thank
Speaker 3: the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us
Speaker 3: on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com,
Speaker 3: you will find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in
Speaker 3: their network.
Speaker 1: They've got shows about.
Speaker 3: Prayer, Bible study, parenting, and so much more. That's lifeaudio
Speaker 3: dot com.