1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the Praying Christian Women podcast. I 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 2: am Alana here with Jamie. 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: How are you doing great? I'm feeling really good. 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 3: The voice is back and I'm not so hoarse and 6 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 3: feeling good. 7 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 2: Based on our topic, I'm picturing Glinda in the original 8 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 2: Wizard of Oz or like, are you a good witch 9 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: or are you a bad witch? Which are you feeling 10 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 2: like today? 11 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 3: I'm feeling like, okay, So if I feel like a 12 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 3: good witch, does that make me bad? I'm feeling like 13 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 3: a bad witch because I'm not into sorcery and witchcraft. 14 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 2: So it's a trick question. It's like you know, asking 15 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: somebody are you lying to me or something? 16 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, okay, hold on, well. 17 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: We are back to talk more about which is witchcraft, 18 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 2: what's to be spiritually discerning regarding and I have absolutely 19 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: seen an increase in what some people would call which 20 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: he practices. I think you when I would probably call 21 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 2: it more just sort of woo woo stuff in mainstream 22 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 2: self help and things like that, even in some alternative 23 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 2: healing circles. And so I think it's important for us 24 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: as Christians to recognize we're not talking about people five 25 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 2: hundred years ago who went on trial. We're talking about 26 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 2: things that impact our lives today. 27 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like when I was growing up, kind 28 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 3: of in my tween and teen years and then maybe 29 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 3: into the Frank Peretti years. I'm not sure when his 30 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 3: stuff came out, probably more my teenage young adult years, 31 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 3: but Frank Peretti, for those that don't know, we're like 32 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 3: this present darkness and like some of the very spiritual warfarey. 33 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: Kind of things. 34 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 3: And the big antagonist in those books was like the 35 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 3: New Age, you know, like New Age was kind of 36 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 3: seeping into the preschools and into the community. And the 37 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 3: New Age of that era, I feel like was different 38 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 3: from what we're seeing now. I don't know if I 39 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 3: could put my finger on it, but I just feel 40 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 3: like it's it used to be so compartmentalized and different 41 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 3: from Christianity, and I believe that today, I think it's 42 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 3: seeped in, and I think that Christianity has adopted some 43 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 3: kind of just I don't know, like absorbed some of 44 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 3: the New agey kind of language and beliefs. And at 45 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 3: the same time, as the more I learn about some 46 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 3: of the language that's used in some of the New 47 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 3: age circles that have nothing to do with Jesus, I 48 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 3: can actually glean biblical you know, we've talked about this, 49 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 3: We've had all kinds of conversations about manifesting and you know, 50 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 3: energy and frequencies and different things. 51 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: This language that's being used, and I. 52 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 3: Believe that there are just like there is with everything, 53 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 3: there are elements of truth in some of these things 54 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 3: that can be parallel to what we see in the Bible. 55 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 3: But it's getting muddied, and I think we need to 56 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 3: talk about it so we can tease out what is biblical, 57 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 3: what is evil, and what is just kind of somewhere 58 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 3: in between. 59 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: Yeah. 60 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely. There's a phrase that a Christian psychologist kind of 61 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: early pioneer coined. I think it's Larry to Krap who 62 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: coined it. He called it plundering the Egyptians. And so 63 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: when the Israelites are fleeing Egypt, the Egyptians are giving 64 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: them like they're jewels and they're giving them gifts, basically 65 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 2: being like, tell your God to stop destroying our nation. 66 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 2: And his use of the phrase plundering the Egyptians was 67 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 2: let's take what we can from secular science and secular 68 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 2: practice and use it if it works in the church, right, Like, 69 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: just because the person who created a tool that's you 70 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: to build the physical building that your church works and 71 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,839 Speaker 2: wasn't a Christian doesn't mean that you're wrong to use 72 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 2: that tool right to physically build your church. And sometimes we, 73 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 2: or at least in certain circles, are like, well, if 74 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 2: it's not right from the Bible, or if the person 75 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 2: who spearheaded this philosophy was not a Christian whose theology 76 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:30,280 Speaker 2: lines up with everything I believe, then the foundation's faulty, 77 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 2: and therefore we've got to throw it all out. And 78 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 2: I would wager that there are some times where, yes, 79 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: if the foundation is that faulty, maybe you do. 80 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: Throw it all out. Right. 81 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 2: That's why in our last episode, a lot of Christians 82 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 2: in our family, for a good chunk of when our 83 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 2: kids were very young, like we had as little to 84 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 2: do with Halloween as we possibly could. And for people 85 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 2: who didn't listen to the last week's episode, I'm also 86 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 2: not stating that that is how every Christian family should 87 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 2: react to the holiday. They were going to be talking 88 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 2: about all this kind of stuff and basically learning what 89 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 2: do you keep, what do you throw out? What is 90 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: so tainted that you've just got to get rid of it. 91 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 2: And what maybe has a little negative truth in it 92 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 2: that you can easily sift out from all the other junk. 93 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: But what is so corrupted by what it's enthrouded in 94 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: that we don't even want to touch it. 95 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 3: One of the spinoff topics that I think we're going 96 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 3: to focus on a lot today from Witchcraft is looking 97 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 3: for signs. We touched on Gideon asking laying out the fleece, 98 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 3: which is, well, we'll go into that a little bit 99 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:45,559 Speaker 3: if you haven't heard of that. That is basically him saying, God, 100 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 3: you told me something. I want to know if this 101 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 3: is really what's going to happen, And he laid out 102 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 3: this fleece and asked for kind of a miracle to 103 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 3: prove it. Tea leaves were mentioned, so, you know, looking 104 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 3: for signs. There's so much the language today, there's so 105 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 3: much of this the universe sent me a sign, or 106 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 3: I just love it when when the universe drops me signs. 107 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 3: But a parallel language could be, hey, I love it 108 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 3: when God sends me a godwink or a sign. You know, 109 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 3: So what is it? What is correct? How do we 110 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 3: think about these things? So I'm going to start off, 111 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 3: you know, we're going to be talking about like signs 112 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 3: and things like reading the tea leaves, and I'm just 113 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 3: going to give us a couple of verses that lay 114 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 3: the foundation for these practices and just kind of go 115 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 3: through and talk through them. So Deuteronomy eighteen ten ten 116 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 3: through twelve says, let no one be found among you 117 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 3: who practice practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft. 118 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 3: Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord. 119 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 3: And then Leviticus nineteen twenty six, do not practice divination 120 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 3: or seat omens. So, you know, we kind of talked 121 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 3: a little bit about this before, but like these practices 122 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 3: were kind of, I don't know, the people of Israel 123 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 3: were surrounded on all sides by paganism, like the Canaanites, 124 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 3: the Philistines, like they had not only pagan beliefs, but 125 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 3: some of them like overtly evil and you know, yeah, 126 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 3: like burning their kids to sacrifice to these gods. And 127 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 3: so the words that are used here's it's pretty much 128 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 3: looking for signs that help you make a decision, but 129 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 3: not just asking God, but looking to other means like 130 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 3: trying to take a shortcut. I'm convinced that the reasons 131 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 3: that he gave these commands not to do these things 132 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,679 Speaker 3: were because there were spiritual forces that were not God, 133 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 3: that there were dark forces that could their way into 134 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 3: any open door that people gave them. 135 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: And or, on the other hand, if. 136 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 3: They just left themselves open to whatever sign, like hey 137 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 3: let it be sunny tomorrow. If I'm supposed to marry 138 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 3: this person, that's not seeking God's guidance, that's just leaving 139 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 3: it to chance. So I think there are two different 140 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 3: things at work, either just superstition leading to chance or 141 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 3: actually opening yourself up to a dark force, whether it's 142 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 3: a spear guide, whether it's an influencer in determining an 143 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 3: outcome based on one of these things. 144 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think it's similar to the spectrum that 145 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 2: we talked about earlier about like fortune cookie to like 146 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: Chinsey horoscope to fortune telling to whatever goes even beyond that, 147 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: you know, seance or something. And I think in a 148 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: lot of these questions there is something that does begin 149 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 2: with something innocuous like flipping a coin. To me, I'm 150 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 2: not inviting the devil into my soul. If I'm like, 151 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: do I want an apple or an orange, and I 152 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 2: can't decide, so I flip a coin. 153 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: Right? 154 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 2: Is that one hundred and eighty degrees different than casting lots? 155 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 2: I see them as on a similar spectrum at the 156 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 2: very least. Right, So, if we have flipping a coin 157 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 2: to make a decision as being in almost every case, 158 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 2: can you think of a case for flipping a coin 159 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 2: would actually be spiritually dangerous? Like it might not be 160 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 2: the wisest right, I'm gonna flip a coin to determine 161 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 2: if I'm gonna, you know, marry this guy. Not a 162 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: wise choice. But do you think it's it's ever could 163 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 2: open you up to spiritually being manipulated? 164 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think if you go into it, 165 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 3: I mean I think your heart condition, your intention going 166 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 3: into something is definitely a good litmus test, Like am 167 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 3: I going into this? That's a bad example, because you 168 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 3: can have good intentions and still have a bad outcome. 169 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 3: For instance, let's say I was really tempted to literally 170 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 3: when we were making the decision whether or not to 171 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 3: allow our then sixth grader go back to public school 172 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 3: in middle school or keep him homeschooled. It was one 173 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 3: of the most like grueling decisions of our parenting, and 174 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 3: we kept coming back different and we were like, God 175 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 3: give us unity, and I was both of us were like, 176 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 3: should we just flip a coin? Honestly? 177 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: Should we just say God help us? 178 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 4: You know? 179 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 3: And I think I use the word casting lots. Should 180 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 3: we just cast lots and see if God does that? 181 00:10:55,559 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 3: And I do think that when you try to take 182 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 3: a shortcut from hearing from God in a genuine way, 183 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 3: that it could open you up to potential evil inserting itself. 184 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 2: I could absolutely agree with you on that, you know, 185 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 2: especially like I'm taking it to a comical extreme and 186 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 2: I'm picturing you and Matt like with a six sided 187 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 2: Monopoly game die and like taking five minutes to pray 188 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 2: over this die and you know, and then you know, 189 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 2: doing some kind of ritual before you roll it. Like 190 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 2: to me, yeah, that that's actually that doesn't pass my 191 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 2: spiritual debt check. 192 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 3: But this kind of brings us to Gideon's fleece because 193 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 3: Gideon did this, So why don't we just go ahead 194 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 3: and read about that? Because this is one of the 195 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 3: most like confusing things, you know in some ways, because 196 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 3: it is it seems to kind of go against this idea. 197 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 3: So Gideon in Judges chapter six, verses thirty six through 198 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 3: forty in the NIV, Gideon said to God, if you 199 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 3: will save Israel by my hand, as you have promised, 200 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 3: so this is the first thing. Apparently God had already 201 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 3: told Gideon in that and I didn't go back to 202 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 3: see the way that God told him. But Gideon is saying, 203 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 3: you've already said that you're going to save Israel by 204 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 3: my hand. I'm not sure. I really, really really want 205 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 3: to be sure that I heard you right. I will 206 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 3: place a wool fleece on the threshing floor. If there 207 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 3: is dew only on the fleece and all the ground 208 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 3: is dry, then I'll know that you will save Israel 209 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 3: by my hand as you said. And that is what happened. 210 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 3: Gideon rose early in the next day. He squeezed the fleece, 211 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 3: wrung out the dew a bowlful of water, so we're 212 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 3: not talking like a dusting. Then Gideon said to God, 213 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 3: don't be angry with me. Let me make just one 214 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 3: more request. Allow me one more test with the fleece, 215 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 3: but this time, make the fleece dry and the ground 216 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 3: be covered with dew. That night, God did so. Only 217 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 3: the fleece was dry, all the ground was covered with dew. 218 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 3: So this is Gideon heard from God. He's trying to 219 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 3: confirm it, and he asks this insane thing, and he says, 220 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 3: don't be angry with me the second time he does it, 221 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 3: which is implying that he knows that he's kind of 222 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 3: testing God. And so I mean, I have to come 223 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 3: away from this like if I were to do this 224 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 3: exact thing, if Matt and I had just said, all right, 225 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 3: we're going to do exactly what Gideon did. 226 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: We're literally going to lay this. 227 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 3: You know, I killed a sheep last hunting season and 228 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 3: we have this piece of wool. We're literally going to 229 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 3: reproduce this. 230 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 2: Could you just shear the sheep so a little baby 231 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 2: sheep doesn't have to die? 232 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Well, it wasn't. It wasn't a baby. It wasn't. 233 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 3: It was very It was an old sheep, but it 234 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 3: died of natural causes. We simply okay, no, But I 235 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 3: have to say, and maybe I don't believe that the 236 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 3: miracle would have happened. 237 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: I just don't. 238 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 3: And maybe I'm woman of little faith, but I really 239 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 3: think that if we had said we think, let's say 240 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 3: that we had some kind of because so he's not 241 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 3: trying to make a decision first of all, one way 242 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 3: or another, yes or no. He's saying, I think I 243 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 3: heard from you, confirm it this way. But even if 244 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 3: we had made a decision like, Okay, we think Joey's 245 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 3: gonna stay home and do homeschool for another year. If 246 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 3: we're right, if we think we heard from you, right, 247 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 3: do this exact thing. I have to tell you. I 248 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 3: don't think that the next day I would go outside 249 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 3: and be able to squeeze a bowlful of water out 250 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 3: of that skin and the rest of the grass beat 251 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 3: totally fine. 252 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: Or you know right? 253 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 3: So then what if you say, I think I know 254 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 3: what you're saying, and you test God and it doesn't 255 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 3: get confirmed, what do you do? 256 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 2: Then there's a hard one because I think in the 257 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 2: scenarrey you you're presenting, it kind of makes the fleece 258 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 2: the magic yeah, and less about God. Now. I think 259 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 2: that sometimes I've heard different interpretations of Gideon in his fleece. 260 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 2: I don't see anything that leads us to believe that 261 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 2: Gideon was wrong for doing what he did. Right now, 262 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 2: he was afraid that God would be mad, but it 263 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 2: never says that God was even close to getting mad 264 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 2: at him. 265 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 3: No, it reminds me of Thomas when he asked Jesus. 266 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 3: It reminds me exactly of that story where he could 267 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 3: have said, as he did many times, you of little faith, 268 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 3: and shook his head. 269 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: But he didn't. He was just like, hey, didn't, come on, 270 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna show you. 271 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: And it reminders are so hard on Thomas, and it 272 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 2: always irks me exactly like you said, Jesus does not 273 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 2: chide him. Jesus presents to him the proof that he 274 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 2: said he needed. And I think about the Brian church 275 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 2: in Acts and when they're presented with the Gospel, they 276 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: are applauded for going back and seeing if what they 277 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 2: heard is true. In scripture, Gideon did not have the 278 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 2: Bible to like the full Bible to read and to 279 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 2: say Gideon will go and defeat the Midianites. So we 280 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 2: have three options, and the Bible doesn't tell us which. 281 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 2: Either Gideon had very little faith and God was getting 282 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 2: angry with him but put up with his demands for 283 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 2: a sign, or Gideon was actually really wise to test 284 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 2: this crazy notion and make sure that it wasn't coming 285 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 2: from his own delusions of brand ear and God was 286 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 2: he was doing exactly what God wanted to have his 287 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 2: will confirmed, or maybe somewhere in the middle, maybe it 288 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 2: was just kind of a neutral thing. God was like, oh, yeah, sure, 289 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 2: if you need another sign, here you go, and like 290 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 2: there's no emotion attached to it whatsoever. You know. It's 291 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 2: like when your kid asks you for a cup of 292 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 2: water and you're like, okay, here you go, you know, 293 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 2: And that's literally all there is to it. Now, we 294 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 2: can't read all of that into it. We don't know 295 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 2: that God was getting tired of Gideon's lack of faith. 296 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 2: We don't know that Gideon was doing something wrong. We 297 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 2: don't know that maybe Gideon was doing exactly the right 298 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 2: thing to be wise and to test the verse that 299 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 2: you always love to go back to, don't treat prophecy 300 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 2: with contempt, test everything in a way. That's exactly what 301 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 2: Gideon's doing. He's not discarding the prophecy that God gave 302 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 2: him that he would defeat the mini Nites, but he's 303 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 2: also testing it. So literally, I don't think we have 304 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 2: enough information to know if Gideon was doing the right 305 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 2: thing or the wrong thing, or somewhere in the middle. 306 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 2: Now here's another really interesting thing, because if I'm in 307 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 2: your scenario about the homeschool question, and I truly do 308 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 2: want to sign, I wouldn't pick a police I would 309 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 2: pick something like I've done this before. If I'm supposed 310 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 2: to go to fred Meyer before I go home, let 311 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 2: this light be green, you know what I mean. And 312 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 2: here's the thing. I think that sometimes we attribute Holy Spirit, 313 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 2: Big D discernment to things that are just our subconscious 314 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 2: talking to us. So by that, what I mean is 315 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 2: I think it's wrong to attribute it to God, but 316 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 2: I don't think it's wrong to test what's in your subconscience. 317 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 2: Let's say I am trying to decide do I want 318 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 2: to fly down to Utah and see Jamie, And in 319 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 2: my brain, I'm like, here's all the pros, here's all 320 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 2: the cons I've prayed about it. God hasn't given me 321 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 2: a green light or a red light. So I decide 322 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 2: that I am going to put out a fleece, my 323 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 2: fleece just because I know me, and I'm going to 324 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 2: be very honest and transparent with you my fleece. 325 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: Even if I. 326 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 2: Went into it with a open mind and the best 327 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 2: of intentions as possible would be something that would be 328 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 2: more likely to happen than not if I was meant 329 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 2: to go visit you, because I know that I want 330 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 2: to go visit you. Yeah, to me, that's not bad, 331 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 2: that's not evil. The only danger is if I attribute 332 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 2: it to God. But really it's just my desire talking 333 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 2: to me. But like, for people who can't make a decision, 334 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 2: were you Are you even the one who told me 335 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 2: this trick? If you can't make a decision and you 336 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 2: just flip a coin, not to decide, but to see 337 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 2: how you feel. 338 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: No, you told me that I told you that you did? 339 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: You did? 340 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 3: You told me that we were talking about it in 341 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 3: an episode, And that is one of my favorite things 342 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 3: I've taught all my kids that I'm like, if you 343 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 3: can't make a decision and you're not feeling guided in 344 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 3: any way. 345 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: Flip a coin. 346 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 3: And I'm not about huge things necessarily, but maybe for 347 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 3: big things, but flip a coin. See how you feel 348 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 3: about that. Are you disappointed? And that might reveal what 349 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 3: really is the best thing to do? Are you excited? 350 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 3: Are you thankful? 351 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 1: And so? Our daughter's very indecisive. 352 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 3: She loves to you know, she loves to ask other 353 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 3: people what she should do, and I'm like, you have 354 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 3: to make that decision yourself. But I told her that 355 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 3: this is a really good way to help reveal what 356 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 3: you truly want. And I think the reason she has 357 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 3: a hard time is she's a people pleaser and she's 358 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 3: always anticipating, well, what if I do this, will this 359 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 3: person mind? If I do this, will this person mind? 360 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 3: I think it helps us get in tune with what's 361 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 3: inside of us and how we really feel about something. 362 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 3: And maybe again, that's good what the Holy Spirit is 363 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 3: saying to us. Maybe it's helping us get in tune 364 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 3: with that still small voice in a. 365 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 4: Way, maybe where I would differ because I think in 366 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 4: that case, there's still small voice is your will. 367 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 1: And I don't think it's wrong to talk. 368 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 2: I think all of us need to. 369 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: Tap into our will. 370 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, especially as women and especially as people. Please, we 371 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 2: are taughts to not listen. But I think that often 372 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 2: the still small voice that we are learning to listen 373 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 2: to is really just our own and that's okay too, right. 374 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 2: So again, if we're talking about little things, should I 375 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 2: go to the mall with this friend or should I 376 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 2: go to the movies with that friend? And she feels 377 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 2: like either way, someone's going to be let down. And 378 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 2: she says, Okay, I'm gonna flip a coin. 379 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: And here's the thing. 380 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 2: The coin is not going to tell her which to choose. 381 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: I think that's that's part. 382 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 3: The coin isn't telling you what to choose. It's revealing 383 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 3: what you already wanted. 384 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 2: So basically, the way you do it is just like, Okay, 385 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 2: if it's A, I go to the mall. 386 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: If it's B, I go to the movies. 387 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 2: You flip the coin. If it lands on A and 388 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 2: you feel happy, that means you wanted to go to 389 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 2: the movie right. If it lands on B and you 390 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 2: feel sad, that means you should go to the movie 391 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 2: right or whichever. I forget which one was, as I know, 392 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 2: but yeah, no, we get it. So we're not attributing 393 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 2: any magical power to the coin. I think that it's 394 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 2: important to not attribute divine power to that voice. I 395 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 2: don't think that's the voice of God. I think that's 396 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 2: just us, especially as women, who have a hard time 397 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 2: knowing what we want, learning how to ask ourselves what 398 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 2: do I want? You know, like it sounds really silly, 399 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 2: but sometimes like ask your stomach or ask your tongue, 400 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 2: what do you want to eat right now? Like, and 401 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 2: take a minute to listen. You're not praying to God 402 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 2: right like. I think it's actually dangerous to attribute like 403 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 2: holy spirit power to this. I think it's just a 404 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 2: good practice to learn how to voice what you want. 405 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that is kind of what it 406 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 3: boils down to, is if you're looking for signs, if 407 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 3: you're looking for who you're attributing it to. In terms 408 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 3: of the coin flipping, now, omens are kind of another thing. 409 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 3: I think so omens are more like things like you know, 410 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 3: the if the crow flies over your head, someone's gonna die, 411 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 3: or if you hear an al hooting three times, then. 412 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: Things that are meant to be bad lack or that 413 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 2: kind of. 414 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 3: Thing right or impending doom. So again, I feel like 415 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 3: I just have to go back. And you know, Israel 416 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 3: was not meant to seek guidance, well we go to 417 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 3: war or not. You know, well I saw a crow 418 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 3: fly by, and so yes, we should go to war 419 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 3: because that's a sign, or seeking advice from the dead, 420 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 3: trying to communicate with with with spirits of those who 421 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 3: have passed, or ancestors for wisdom and I go back 422 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 3: to Israel was surrounded by pagan nations, and I don't 423 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 3: doubt that some of those, you know, like Bail and 424 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 3: you know, these these different pagan gods, I don't doubt 425 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 3: that there were principalities behind them, evil spirits and all 426 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 3: of these things, the omens, the magic, the necromancy, the 427 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 3: medium ship, is all opening doors for evil to influence 428 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 3: the actions of God's people. 429 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 1: And and so. 430 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 3: I really think that a lot of this protective measure 431 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 3: was to protect evil from masquerading as truth and good 432 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 3: and leading people astray. And if we take that concept 433 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 3: and we PLoP it into today, it's a very similar thing. 434 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 3: It's like, where are you opening yourself up for evil 435 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 3: to masquerade as truth to guide you and help you 436 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 3: make decisions or help you gain knowledge or wisdom about 437 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 3: how the world works. And like you alluded to earlier, 438 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 3: it all boils down to God's word in our hands. 439 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 3: We have God's word in our hands, and we have 440 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 3: the Holy Spirit living in us, which Gideon didn't have. 441 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 3: He had the Holy Spirit would alight here and there 442 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 3: and help people and talk to people, but he didn't 443 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 3: have the Holy Spirit living in him. And so between 444 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 3: that and God's word in our hands. We have everything 445 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 3: we need, presumably to receive guidance from God. It doesn't 446 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 3: mean that it's straightforward. It doesn't mean that we can't 447 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 3: make mistakes even hearing from God or in interpreting his word, 448 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 3: because we could use the Bible like a Ouiji board if 449 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 3: we wanted. 450 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: Oh for sure. 451 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 2: And I think people do that fairly regularly. Yeah, so 452 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 2: there's that, Well you're ready for a can of worms. 453 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 454 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 2: So the Israelites didn't go to war because they saw 455 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 2: a crow fly, but they cast lots, right, And that's when, like, 456 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 2: if my kid came to me it was like, what's 457 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 2: that about, I'd be like that, that's where we need 458 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: our little soundboard button. 459 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right it is. 460 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 3: And the next question, please write and the Urim and 461 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 3: thummim like on the those were stones that alleged sounds 462 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 3: very superstitious. 463 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 1: It does. 464 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 2: So, you know, I think if if we went the 465 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 2: easy Sunday school answer, I think you already hit it, 466 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,479 Speaker 2: and that is we have the Bible now and so 467 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 2: there is not a need for extra biblical casting of 468 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,919 Speaker 2: lots or that kind of thing. I think the deepest 469 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 2: answer is probably way more complicated than I wouldn't even 470 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 2: know where to begin. Here's another way to look at it. 471 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 2: I don't really think that this is This is not 472 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 2: my opinion, but I could see some people explaining it 473 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 2: like this. There's a verse in Proverbs that says something 474 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 2: like the lot is cast into the lap, but it's 475 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 2: every decision is from the Lord. And there's this idea 476 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 2: of if you're casting lots superstitiously, God can still meet you, 477 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 2: just like if you're playing Bible roulette right where you're 478 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 2: trying to make an important decision. So you just open 479 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 2: up the Bible and throw your finger on a verse 480 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 2: and it's not what the Bible was meant for. But 481 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 2: that doesn't mean and it's not something that I would 482 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 2: advise somebody to do. It also doesn't mean that somebody 483 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 2: who does it superstitiously can't be met by God in 484 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 2: that way. So maybe it's almost a picture of God 485 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 2: meeting us where we are. 486 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that hits the nail on 487 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: the head. 488 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 3: I think the story of Gideon and the Fleece is 489 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 3: about God meeting us where we are. 490 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: I think I agree. 491 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,719 Speaker 3: I think when we are setting ourselves up with like 492 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 3: a mindset and just living our lives in submission to 493 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 3: God's will that we will find it. And I think 494 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 3: these conversations are important, Like you know, if casting lots 495 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 3: happened biblically, if the urim and thummin were used somehow 496 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 3: for yes or nos, I mean I know that those 497 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 3: in particular were handed down by God. 498 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: It was this is what you'll do exactly. 499 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 3: God did not hand me a set of marbles and 500 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 3: say shake them up, and whicheverone, like you know, falls 501 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 3: into the middle is the one that. 502 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: So I think we need to separate those things. 503 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 3: We also need to remember that not everything in the 504 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 3: Bible is supposed to be repeated. It's an illustration of 505 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 3: God meeting Gideon where he was. It's not an instruction 506 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 3: manual for Oh, he had that outcome, So I need 507 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 3: to do the same thing. And I just think we 508 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 3: do need to hold those two things a Let's live 509 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 3: our lives in submission to God in an earnest desire. 510 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 3: And I think that probably had something to do with 511 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 3: Gideon's situation, was he just desperately wanted to know what 512 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 3: God wanted from him, and he really wanted to make 513 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 3: sure he was hearing God right, and God honored that 514 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 3: and blessed it. It doesn't mean he's going to do 515 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 3: it for someone else in a separate circumstance. But on 516 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 3: the other hand, I think we do need to absolutely 517 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 3: guard against any doorway for evil influences, which are absolutely real. 518 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 3: There's a spiritual battle. There are evil forces out there 519 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 3: that can in this world, and they can manipulate physical things, presumably, 520 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 3: I don't know for sure, but we need to make 521 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 3: sure not to open ourselves up to anything that could, 522 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 3: you know, allow the enemy to get a foothold. So 523 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 3: beyond that, I think there's a lot of discernment individually 524 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 3: that has to happen. 525 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that that's a great closing point. So 526 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 2: I don't have a blessing in front of you, so 527 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 2: I am just going to come up with one off 528 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 2: the top of my head. And my hope and prayer 529 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 2: for everybody listening is that God will meet you exactly 530 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 2: where you are, that you will give you the guidance 531 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 2: and the words that you need in exactly the way 532 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 2: that makes sense to you, in the language that makes 533 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 2: sense to you, and that you will be very confident 534 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 2: knowing that it is His voice. And I also hope 535 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 2: and pray that we all learn to listen to our 536 00:30:55,120 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 2: own small voice and also have the wisdom to know 537 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 2: which is our voice and which is God's voice, and 538 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 2: that those wouldn't be at war with each other, but 539 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 2: it would work together beautifully in guiding us. 540 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: Amen. Amen. 541 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 3: We'd like to take just a quick second to thank 542 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 3: the team at Life Audio for their partnership with us 543 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 3: on the podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com, 544 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 3: you will find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in 545 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 3: their network. 546 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: They've got shows about. 547 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 3: Prayer, Bible study, parenting, and so much more. That's lifeaudio 548 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 3: dot com.