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Speaker 1: Life Audio. Welcome to the t Musk podcast, where we

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Speaker 1: share how grace, commitment, and cooperation can help couples live

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Speaker 1: the everyday moments of marriage together. Hey everyone, we're Ted

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Speaker 1: and Dashley Slater.

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Speaker 2: Today we're talking about adaptability and flexibility and marriage. Those

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Speaker 2: everyday moments we're staying open and teachable really matters, not

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Speaker 2: just in big decisions, but in the small, ordinary interactions

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Speaker 2: that shape how we live life together. So Ted, Hello, Hello,

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Speaker 2: he Have.

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Speaker 3: You ever noticed this?

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Speaker 2: Sometimes it's not the big dramatic stuff that trips us

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Speaker 2: up in our interactions, but sometimes it's just the everyday stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, because there's more of the every day than

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Speaker 1: there are.

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Speaker 2: The big Oh that's a good point, Okay, Yeah, Like

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Speaker 2: plans changing at the last minute, or realizing we have

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Speaker 2: two very different prefers says about how something should be done.

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Speaker 1: Like the stereo in our living room we're.

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Speaker 3: Working on that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: If we have very different preferences, as long as it

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Speaker 2: esthetically looks good, then I think we're okay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, Or those.

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Speaker 2: Moments when we're both trying to solve the same problem

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Speaker 2: just in completely different ways. So I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: sometimes when that happens, we may both get that feeling

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Speaker 2: of why does this have to be harder than it.

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Speaker 3: Needs to be?

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Speaker 2: All that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, or why.

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Speaker 1: Can't you just see it the way I see it,

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Speaker 1: which is the correct way.

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Speaker 3: We'll get to that.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to that.

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Speaker 2: So those moments can be small, but they add up,

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Speaker 2: and like I've started realizing that what's underneath a lot

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Speaker 2: of that tension, like personally for me sometimes isn't the

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Speaker 2: situation itself. It's like my flexibility or my lack of

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Speaker 2: it at times.

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Speaker 1: Flexibility can you use another word for that, or a

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Speaker 1: few other words.

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Speaker 2: Can describe adaptability being able to to bend, yeah, that

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Speaker 2: kind of thing, like not being stuck and set in

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Speaker 2: your ways.

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Speaker 1: It's hard not to be stuck and set in your

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Speaker 1: ways when you're getting to the age I'm at.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 2: In a previous episode, like we briefly touched on something

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Speaker 2: that's called psychological flexibility, and that's really what we're talking about.

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Speaker 2: We're not talking about being able to like stretch our

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Speaker 2: leg really high like our daughters can do. So today

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Speaker 2: we want to slow that down and really sit and

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Speaker 2: talk about what that is, like, why it's challenging and

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Speaker 2: how learning to be more flexible, adaptable, and teachable. There's

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Speaker 2: some words for you can actually bring more peace and

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Speaker 2: connection into our marriages. And I have to say, for

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Speaker 2: those listening, just to be clear, we are not coming

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Speaker 2: at this conversation as a couple who's figured it all out.

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Speaker 3: We're still learning.

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Speaker 1: I figured it all out, cool, then.

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Speaker 2: You should have a lot of really good insight to

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Speaker 2: add to this conversation.

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Speaker 1: Figured out that I haven't figured it all out yet?

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Speaker 1: Figured all right?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean I feel like this concept of psychological

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Speaker 2: fe flexibility has really only been on my radar for

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Speaker 2: like a couple of years.

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Speaker 1: Like that term.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And like the more I learn, the more I

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Speaker 2: can see patterns in myself. You know, I can see

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Speaker 2: those moments where I might clamp down or dig in

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Speaker 2: or resist instead of being open because I think I

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Speaker 2: don't have some self awareness, right, I say awareness.

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Speaker 1: Have I said anything that helped you see that? Or

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Speaker 1: did you just sort of it came to you as

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Speaker 1: your I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I've been trying to really grow the

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Speaker 2: last couple of years. Probably, I mean, it's probably a

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Speaker 2: combination of lots of things. All right, Well, let's define

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Speaker 2: what we're talking about, Okay. So psychological flexibility is essentially

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Speaker 2: our ability to stay open and grounded when life or

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Speaker 2: our spouse doesn't do what we expect. So the University

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Speaker 2: of Rochester, because you know, I like to pull in quotes,

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Speaker 2: absolutely and research from experts experts describes it as a

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Speaker 2: set of skills we use when we're faced with difficult thoughts, emotions,

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Speaker 2: or experiences. And those skills include being open to both

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Speaker 2: pleasant and painful moments, staying aware of what's happening right now,

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Speaker 2: noticing our thoughts without clinging to them, staying connected to

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Speaker 2: our values, and continuing to move forward even when the

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Speaker 2: day goes sideways. So, in other words, it's the ability

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Speaker 2: to bend without breaking.

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Speaker 1: And what could breaking look like?

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Speaker 2: I just climbing in bed and pulling the cover over

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Speaker 2: your head, or just putting your foot down and being like, no,

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Speaker 2: I'm not even going to consider that.

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Speaker 3: That's it. That's just not okay.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's happened in the twenty something years we've

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Speaker 1: been married. But yeah, I can see how bending and

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Speaker 1: accommodating other perspectives.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think the point of our conversation too,

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Speaker 2: is bending without losing your core beliefs or your core

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Speaker 2: rolling over. You're not changing who you are in yeah,

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Speaker 2: in a way that.

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Speaker 3: Is not healthy.

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Speaker 2: I mean that might be a much deeper conversation, but okay.

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Speaker 2: So I also read an article from Focus on the

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Speaker 2: Family where therapist Wendy Brown explains that psychological flexibility in marriage.

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Speaker 2: She explains it as the ability to overlook what can

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Speaker 2: be overlooked and to accept our spouse for who God

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Speaker 2: created them to be, allowing space for their thoughts, feelings, behaviors,

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Speaker 2: and beliefs. And marriage dot Com ads that flexibility helps

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Speaker 2: couples respond out of their values, like you talked about,

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Speaker 2: instead of reacting out of emotion. So, for example, it

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Speaker 2: helps us regulate ourselves so we can actually hear each other,

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Speaker 2: not just wait for our turn to talk, right.

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Speaker 1: Because if you're acting out of emotion, you might do

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Speaker 1: or say something the wrong thing, something painful, something hurtful.

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Speaker 1: They're spinning out of values. I hadn't really thought about this.

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Speaker 1: This is kind I'm sort of thinking about it in.

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Speaker 2: Real time, right, But that's good. We get good reactions.

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Speaker 2: That's one reason you don't have a script.

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Speaker 1: I don't have a script.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so well, okay, let's to explore this, like what

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Speaker 2: happens when we don't have psychological flexibility?

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Speaker 1: Ooh so conflict, abrasiveness, discomfort, cognitive dissonance, yeah, flooding, Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Research shows it often looks like emotional avoidance, running on autopilot,

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Speaker 2: getting stuck in our negative feelings, taking things personally, losing

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Speaker 2: sight of what really matters, and feeling completely thrown when

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Speaker 2: plans change or conflict shows up. HM. Wendy Brown and

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Speaker 2: that Focus on the Family article describes it as living

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Speaker 2: in survival brain mode or you know, fight flight or freeze.

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Speaker 2: And that's not where intimacy grows.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's a bad place to be. Yeah, definitely, So

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Speaker 1: let's not go.

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Speaker 2: There right while we're continually learning and trying to do better.

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Speaker 2: They actually say that higher psychological inflexibility is linked to

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Speaker 2: lower relationship satisfaction or sexual satisfaction, less emotional support, and

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Speaker 2: more negative conflicts. I don't want that, No, So this

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Speaker 2: isn't just about like personality differences. It actually shapes the

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Speaker 2: health of our marriages. All right, So I have one

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Speaker 2: more important clarification. Okay, I have to laugh here and

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Speaker 2: interrupt because those of you listening, since we don't do

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Speaker 2: a video version of this. You cannot see what's going

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Speaker 2: on here. Ted is sitting here and flossing his teeth

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Speaker 2: while we are recording.

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Speaker 1: It's like one of these plastic tooth fluster things. They're

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Speaker 1: fun to play with.

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Speaker 3: Yes, okay, well back to the top.

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Speaker 2: So I'm trying very hard not to be distracted, but

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Speaker 2: had a moment there. It's like he's using it like

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Speaker 2: you would use like a toothpick in those old movies.

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Speaker 3: Oh my word.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, so I have one more important clarification

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Speaker 2: back to the topic.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm so sorry I put it down the toothpick.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: So psychological flexibility isn't about being easygoing or passive. So

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Speaker 2: it's not kind of like we were talking about not

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Speaker 2: losing yourself. It's not about stuffing your feelings or always

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Speaker 2: giving in. It's really about how tightly or loosely we

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Speaker 2: hold our inner reactions because our inner posture kind of

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Speaker 2: shapes everything because everything, I mean, the Bible says everything.

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Speaker 3: Flows out of the heart.

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Speaker 1: Right, So we're.

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Speaker 2: Gonna unpack what gets in the way of flexibility. The

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Speaker 2: first We're going to take a quick break, all right,

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Speaker 2: So why do we struggle with psychological flexibility. So marriage

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Speaker 2: dot Com suggests that the first step is simply noticing

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Speaker 2: patterns which we kind of touched on in the opening,

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Speaker 2: like black and white thinking or resistance to change or

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Speaker 2: avoiding discomfort like awareness or self awareness gives us options.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sorry chuckling, because, yeah, all of those things

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Speaker 1: is like where I naturally am heading toward. The older

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Speaker 1: I get, the longer I live, the more information I've had,

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Speaker 1: the more decisions I've made, the more considered what's right

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Speaker 1: and wrong, and I start getting a little more black

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Speaker 1: and white. I've done this already. I know what's right,

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Speaker 1: I know what's wrong. And then resistance to change, well yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then avoiding discomfort, well, I kind of like comfort

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Speaker 1: ain't gonna Yeah, this is this is where my heart

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Speaker 1: wants to go.

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Speaker 2: All these Yeah, and I think I see that growing

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Speaker 2: struggle in you. We usually encounter it on vacation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, particularly the resistance of change because it's change

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Speaker 1: in location, change and you know, routine and so on.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's discomfort, it's hard to sleep, it's not your

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Speaker 2: own bed. All right, Well, let's talk about a comment

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Speaker 2: a few common roadblocks okay, to being psychologically flexible. First,

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Speaker 2: we get stuck in our ways, like you just talked about, right,

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Speaker 2: some of that, And like for me, sometimes my initial

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Speaker 2: action to new ideas is hesitation, not because the idea

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Speaker 2: is necessarily bad, but because it's unfamiliar and uncomfortable and

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Speaker 2: I need time to kind of sit with it.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, yep, and I'd be the same way, but I

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Speaker 1: mean time to sit with it. That's a good way

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Speaker 1: to put it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes you want to response sooner from me than

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Speaker 2: I'm ready, or sometimes I am knee jerk?

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Speaker 1: Is no, I mean my computer responds to me immediately. Yes, well.

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Speaker 3: That's another conversation.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So, and I think over time, that kind of

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Speaker 2: response in marriage can unintentionally communicate your ideas don't really

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Speaker 2: belong here, you know. And I think, as we've talked

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Speaker 2: about in a previous episode, Jill Savage calls this being

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Speaker 2: a dream taker. Instead of nurturing our spouse's ideas, we

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Speaker 2: poke holes in them or jump straight to logistics, and

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Speaker 2: eventually our spouse can stop sharing.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean jump to logistics?

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Speaker 2: Like? Okay, well that's an idea, Like how would that work?

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Speaker 3: Like what would that cost?

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Speaker 2: Like could we realistically do that could you know before

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Speaker 2: like kind of exploring Oh okay, the fun aspect of it,

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Speaker 2: right to.

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Speaker 1: Get like my take on why this particular thing is being.

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Speaker 3: Brought up instead of that's not realistic.

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Speaker 1: Okay? Yeah, good?

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Speaker 2: And you know that can keep each other from not

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Speaker 2: sharing anymore, because it's not that we don't have dreams anymore,

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Speaker 2: but it feels safer to keep them to ourselves the point, right,

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Speaker 2: all right. Second roadblock is we assume our way is

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Speaker 2: the right way. I told you we'd get to this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a tricky one because well, I mean I

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Speaker 1: think every individual thinks their way is the right way.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of the way you live your life, because

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Speaker 1: I mean it depends.

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Speaker 2: Because I will tell the girls, like when they load

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Speaker 2: the dishwasher, I'll be like, hey, you can fit a

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Speaker 2: lot more in here if you do it like this,

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Speaker 2: But you're doing it so maybe you'll figure out an

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Speaker 2: even better way to do it.

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Speaker 3: Or this is how I'm.

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Speaker 2: Might do this when I'm cooking this item, but maybe

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Speaker 2: you'll figure out a better way of chip chopping the olives.

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Speaker 1: Got it? So you're you're modeling that your way is

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Speaker 1: not necessarily the best way. There may be other ways.

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Speaker 2: To do it right, but they might find value in

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Speaker 2: my way. So I mean this really shows up in

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Speaker 2: those tiny everyday moments like the dishwasher like I just mentioned,

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Speaker 2: or the driving route like you and I will sometimes

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Speaker 2: be like, hey, you know, when I'm taking this route,

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Speaker 2: I normally turn here because of YadA YadA, yep, but

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Speaker 2: you're driving so you can do.

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Speaker 1: What you want.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We had a conversation like that driving home church, I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or or somewhere just the other night, was it home

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Speaker 1: from uh stuff late? And I just mentioned you know

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Speaker 1: what I do, and I wasn't being manipulative or you

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Speaker 1: know whatever manipulative is. When light turns red, I turn

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Speaker 1: right just so I can keep making forward motion homeward.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And when I'm taking the longer drives up to like Phoenix,

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Speaker 2: I'll be like like, oh, this is what I do.

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Speaker 2: I always check the traffic and look at it to

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Speaker 2: see where the stuff's gonna be. And this is what

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Speaker 2: I normally do.

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Speaker 1: You have the free as much as possible.

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Speaker 2: Or make up there yeah, or make sure that it's

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Speaker 2: not backed up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And so we don't think we're being rigid like when

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Speaker 2: we say this is the way it should be. We

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Speaker 2: think we're being reasonable. I mean, I don't think our

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Speaker 2: descriptions we just gave right now are us saying this

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Speaker 2: is the right way. But flexibility requires humility and the

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Speaker 2: willingness to say my way is one way, not the way.

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Speaker 1: Right. I think that's a good summary. Yeah, that point. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right.

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Speaker 2: So third roadblock is we crave control, and I think

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Speaker 2: in marriage control can feel like safety, like if I

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Speaker 2: manage the plan, the tone, or the direction, things won't

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Speaker 2: fall apart. But I think a lot of us have

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Speaker 2: learned that control often comes from fear, and fear makes

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Speaker 2: us less open, less curious, and less flexible with each

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Speaker 2: other are in our relationship.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, fear is definitely like fear of what What's an example,

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Speaker 1: fear of consequence or reaction.

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Speaker 2: Or I think all those things are fear that things

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Speaker 2: will oh if we change.

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Speaker 3: The way they we do this.

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Speaker 2: I like the way we do this, if we change it,

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Speaker 2: What if I don't like the new way that we

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Speaker 2: do it. What if I don't like the new speakers

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Speaker 2: you got.

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Speaker 3: I'm just kidding.

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Speaker 1: They are the wrong color. I will admit that, so

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Speaker 1: we'll figure out a way to the wrong color.

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Speaker 2: And when you yeah, okay, a little story for those

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Speaker 2: of you listening. Ted bought some like us speakers that

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Speaker 2: are newer than the ones we had because we've had

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Speaker 2: our speakers for like twenty years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're only ten fifteen years old.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And he texts me and says, the center speakers a

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Speaker 2: lot bigger than I thought.

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Speaker 1: It's four times the size of our previous one.

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Speaker 3: And I text him back and I'm like, well, it's

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Speaker 3: a good thing. I'm working on an episode I'm being

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Speaker 3: flexible in marriage today for the podcast.

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Speaker 2: So all right, well, let's take another short break and

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Speaker 2: when we come back, we'll talk about how to practice

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Speaker 2: growing in flexibility without losing ourselves. So how do we

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Speaker 2: actually grow in psychological flexibility, especially in the middle of

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Speaker 2: real marriage moments?

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Speaker 1: Let's hear it?

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Speaker 2: Well, first we listen.

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Speaker 1: Listen, which is biblical absolutely.

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Speaker 2: I think it's James that says, you know, be slow

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Speaker 2: to speak, quick to listen.

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Speaker 1: Very practical. James is right, practical advice.

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Speaker 2: And if we're unsure where to start, we can ask

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Speaker 2: our spouse where they feel shut down and then listen

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Speaker 2: without fixing, defending, or explaining.

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Speaker 3: Which can be really really hard.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's right, especially if your spouse it

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Speaker 1: sounds like they're not really understanding some of the facts.

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Speaker 1: If they're talking and you're like, wait, wait, that's not

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Speaker 1: what my intention was, or that was not what's going

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Speaker 1: on behind the scenes, whatever, But you still want to listen.

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Speaker 2: Right well, and maybe you're here their feelings about it,

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Speaker 2: because sometimes even if they don't have everything right, I mean,

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Speaker 2: the fact that that's how it's impacting them emotionally does matter.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So listen and if your spouse says some things

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Speaker 1: that are that you would disagree with, continue listening because

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Speaker 1: you're not just listening for facts, but you're listening for

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Speaker 1: the whole story, including emotions.

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Speaker 2: And because I think sometimes it's about how whatever the

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Speaker 2: situation is makes us feel true, you know, and you've

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Speaker 2: got to repair and address the feelings too. You can't

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Speaker 2: just try to correct the facts because there's still hurt

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Speaker 2: feelings there, absolutely, and so you can get all your

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Speaker 2: facts figured out, and if there's no repair of the feelings,

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Speaker 2: I think there's still a wall or there's still stuff

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Speaker 2: that needs to be worked out. But yeah, I think

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Speaker 2: listening without fixing, defending, or explaining is really hard. It's hard,

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Speaker 2: but also incredibly helpful and healing if you really take

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Speaker 2: the time to do it.

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Speaker 1: So, how long she listened for? Like two minutes?

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Speaker 2: Sir?

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Speaker 1: A limit? Give you two minutes? I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 1: up to five minutes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not sure. That's a good question. It probably

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Speaker 3: varies by couple and personality.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you need okay, all right?

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Speaker 3: Second, start small?

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Speaker 1: I like small. I can start small, So thank.

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Speaker 2: Baby steps for those who are old as old as

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Speaker 2: we are.

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Speaker 1: What about Bob right the movie?

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Speaker 2: Right? You know, flexibility doesn't begin with major life decisions.

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Speaker 2: It starts with small moments of openness, like choosing curiosity

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Speaker 2: over correction or softness over certainty. You know. Small shifts

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Speaker 2: can build trust over time, or choosing to listen to

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Speaker 2: feelings before having two correct facts. You know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. Start small, listen, start small.

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Speaker 2: And third, get curious about what's underneath? Are being rigid? Yes,

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Speaker 2: but I wasn't sure I would say it correctly.

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Speaker 3: I changed in the middle of the time.

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Speaker 1: It's there, all right.

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Speaker 3: So when we notice ourselves.

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Speaker 2: Getting quiet, pulling back, or digging in, it's a reminder

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Speaker 2: to pause instead of pushing forward. Like we can learn

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Speaker 2: to ask ourselves two simple questions in those moments, like

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Speaker 2: what am I trying to protect right now and what

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Speaker 2: feels at risk for me, which I think are things

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Speaker 2: we don't naturally think about. But I think it's really

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Speaker 2: revealing to go, Okay, this is threatening my comfortable, predictable routine,

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Speaker 2: and so I feel like I'm going to lose that

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Speaker 2: and not like the new routine. And that's why I'm

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Speaker 2: pushing back that kind of thing. So I think sometimes

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Speaker 2: it's not the issue we're talking about at all. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: it's our sense of being understood or feeling respected, or

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Speaker 2: wanting to feel safe, seen or steady, And when we

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Speaker 2: can kind of slow down enough to notice that, it

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Speaker 2: changes how we come into the relationship. You know, I

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Speaker 2: don't think awareness fixes everything, but it does create enough

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Speaker 2: space for us to step back and maybe make it different.

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Speaker 1: Voice see that. I'll probably need to listen to that

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Speaker 1: a couple of times, because that's a thick' that's some

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Speaker 1: thick yeah thoughts there.

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Speaker 2: I think it's just I mean, I think it's being

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Speaker 2: aware of Wait, why did I just react like that

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Speaker 2: or why did I just say that? Because sometimes our

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Speaker 2: reactions are they make sense to us because it's the

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Speaker 2: way we've always reacted, but maybe there's something behind it

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Speaker 2: that needs to be addressed or healed or worked through

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Speaker 2: so that we can have better reactions and better interactions.

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Speaker 2: You know, all right, you're ready to recap.

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Speaker 1: Let's recap.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So, psychological flexibility is not the ability to stretch

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Speaker 2: like a ballerina. It is the ability to state we

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Speaker 2: have a lot of ballerinas in our house, to stay open,

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Speaker 2: grounded and values driven even when emotions run high. And

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Speaker 2: in marriage, flexibility creates safety, while infla flexibility creates distance.

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Speaker 2: And it's not about changing who we are. It's about

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Speaker 2: changing how we like show up for each other and

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Speaker 2: in the relationship.

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Speaker 1: So the how we poise our conversation or how we

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Speaker 1: poise our emotions or.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's our interreactions, I think, and coming to it

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Speaker 2: being willing and ready to listen and to consider and

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Speaker 2: to be.

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Speaker 1: Curious, curiouser and curious.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So the good news is flexibility is something we

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Speaker 2: can practice, which brings us to this week's US Time challenge.

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Speaker 2: We're going to take a short break, but when we

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Speaker 2: come back and share that all right, So this week,

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Speaker 2: those of you listening choose one small area where you'll

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Speaker 2: intentionally practice flexibility, not to win points, but to build connection,

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Speaker 2: and at the end of the week talk about what

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Speaker 2: you noticed, not.

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Speaker 3: What you accomplished.

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Speaker 1: Have you thought of anything to do to try.

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Speaker 2: And I'll get back to you. I think about that,

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Speaker 2: So all right, what about you? Do you think about anything.

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Speaker 1: That's good? What I could do is I could evaluate

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Speaker 1: myself for where I find myself kind of inflexible and

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Speaker 1: then ask myself if that might be something I could

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Speaker 1: work on being more flexible with. Yeah, because I've got

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's easy enough to do patterns or routines

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Speaker 1: that kind of I get miffed if I'm not able

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Speaker 1: to to do those like my morning routine, evening routine, whatever. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that'll be a good exercise.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you can become an exception to that stereotype of

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Speaker 2: as men get older.

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Speaker 1: They exactly.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, thanks for joining us on the Team

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Speaker 2: US podcast. We're looking forward to next time as we

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Speaker 2: keep talking about how grace, commitment, and cooperation can help

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Speaker 2: couples of the everyday moments of marriage together.

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Speaker 4: Team US with Ted and Ashley Slater is a production

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Speaker 4: you heard today. Please take a second to rate and

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