1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:03,830 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 2: Build Different is a production of the American Association of 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 2: Christian Counselors. To support this podcast and learn how you 4 00:00:09,460 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 2: can help us to promote all our biblical content, spread 5 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 2: the gospel, and provide mental health resources and training to 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:26,330 Speaker 2: people everywhere, just go to aaccfoundation.org. Again, that's aaccfoundation.org. Hey everybody, 7 00:00:26,370 --> 00:00:28,670 Speaker 2: welcome back into the Build Different podcast. I'll be your 8 00:00:28,690 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: host today, Dr. Zach Clinton, and I just want to 9 00:00:30,710 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: begin by thanking you so much for taking the time 10 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 2: and making us a part of your day. 11 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: If you like what you hear today, make sure you 12 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:37,860 Speaker 1: hit that subscribe button. 13 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 2: It means a lot as we continue building a real 14 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,570 Speaker 2: community here at Build Different, and leave us a review. 15 00:00:42,850 --> 00:00:45,790 Speaker 2: I read them, I appreciate your feedback, and I always 16 00:00:45,830 --> 00:00:48,669 Speaker 2: love hearing how these conversations are impacting your life. 17 00:00:49,340 --> 00:00:51,140 Speaker 1: I also want you to know today before we begin. 18 00:00:51,180 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 2: that Built Different is proudly sponsored by Liberty University. Liberty 19 00:00:54,510 --> 00:00:57,410 Speaker 2: University has impacted my life greatly. My friend, I'm a 20 00:00:57,430 --> 00:01:00,750 Speaker 2: graduate and a big believer... in what Liberty University has 21 00:01:00,810 --> 00:01:02,030 Speaker 2: to offer you. 22 00:01:02,630 --> 00:01:03,330 Speaker 1: The vision of Dr. 23 00:01:03,370 --> 00:01:05,770 Speaker 2: Jerry Falwell Sr. is alive and well... and I believe 24 00:01:06,030 --> 00:01:08,930 Speaker 2: it's stronger than ever before. Did you know that LU 25 00:01:09,010 --> 00:01:12,910 Speaker 2: offers over 600 online programs... taught by experts who understand 26 00:01:12,930 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: your calling... and support you to help you reach it? 27 00:01:15,670 --> 00:01:17,890 Speaker 2: And while the path to higher education has changed over 28 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: the years... One thing has never changed. That's our mission 29 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,459 Speaker 2: to train champions for Christ, whether on campus, online, or 30 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,380 Speaker 2: around the world. All you have to do is go 31 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:36,250 Speaker 2: to liberty.edu. Again, that's www.liberty.edu forward slash built different to 32 00:01:36,330 --> 00:01:40,350 Speaker 2: start your journey to personal growth and professional fulfillment today. 33 00:01:40,850 --> 00:01:43,810 Speaker 2: All right, my friend, let's dive into today's conversation with 34 00:01:43,870 --> 00:01:51,230 Speaker 2: a very special guest. Hello, everybody, and welcome back in 35 00:01:51,310 --> 00:01:54,260 Speaker 2: to another episode of the Build Different Podcast. As always, 36 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,460 Speaker 2: I'll be your host today, Dr. Zach Clinton, alongside of 37 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:57,100 Speaker 2: my dad, Dr. 38 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: Tim Clinton. 39 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,900 Speaker 2: And today, we've got an incredibly special conversation coming your way, 40 00:02:01,980 --> 00:02:04,660 Speaker 2: as we had the privilege of sitting down with today's 41 00:02:04,740 --> 00:02:08,540 Speaker 2: guest at the Lowe's Arlington Hotel in Arlington, Texas, as 42 00:02:08,590 --> 00:02:11,910 Speaker 2: we wrapped up our 2026 AACC Mega National Christian Counseling 43 00:02:11,950 --> 00:02:14,770 Speaker 2: Conference a few weeks back. This year's theme was Faith 44 00:02:14,810 --> 00:02:17,710 Speaker 2: and Flourishing, reminding us that God didn't create us simply 45 00:02:17,770 --> 00:02:21,470 Speaker 2: to survive life's challenges. but with the capacity to grow, 46 00:02:21,610 --> 00:02:25,169 Speaker 2: to heal, to change, and ultimately to flourish, even in 47 00:02:25,210 --> 00:02:28,070 Speaker 2: the midst of suffering. I can't think of a better 48 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: guest to unpack the intersection of faith, neuroscience, suffering, and 49 00:02:31,220 --> 00:02:32,580 Speaker 2: hope than Dr. 50 00:02:32,620 --> 00:02:33,220 Speaker 1: Lee Warren. 51 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:33,940 Speaker 3: Dr. 52 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 2: Warren is a renowned neurosurgeon. He's an Iraq war veteran. 53 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,300 Speaker 2: He's a best-selling author, and he's a speaker who explores 54 00:02:40,340 --> 00:02:44,260 Speaker 2: the extraordinary relationship between our brains, our beliefs, and the 55 00:02:44,310 --> 00:02:47,869 Speaker 2: capacity for transformation. But what makes his story so powerful 56 00:02:47,930 --> 00:02:50,940 Speaker 2: isn't simply what he's learn in the operating room. It's 57 00:02:50,970 --> 00:02:55,030 Speaker 2: what he's learned through unimaginable personal pain. Having experienced the 58 00:02:55,090 --> 00:02:59,110 Speaker 2: trauma of war and the devastating loss of his son, Dr. 59 00:02:59,130 --> 00:03:03,690 Speaker 2: Warren found himself wrestling with life's hardest questions about suffering, grief, faith, 60 00:03:04,310 --> 00:03:07,170 Speaker 2: and whether hope is truly possible when everything seems to 61 00:03:07,190 --> 00:03:10,989 Speaker 2: be falling apart. Through that journey, he began applying what 62 00:03:11,030 --> 00:03:13,510 Speaker 2: he knew about the brain to his own healing. He's 63 00:03:13,530 --> 00:03:15,710 Speaker 2: the best-selling author of Hope is the First Dose and 64 00:03:16,180 --> 00:03:18,500 Speaker 2: I've Seen the End of You, and his most recent, 65 00:03:18,540 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 2: a New York Times bestseller, The Life-Changing Art of Self-Brain Surgery. 66 00:03:23,100 --> 00:03:23,590 Speaker 1: I love that. 67 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,669 Speaker 2: His work explores how neuroplasticity, intentional thinking, and biblical truth 68 00:03:28,070 --> 00:03:31,230 Speaker 2: can help us renew our minds, reshape destructive thought patterns, 69 00:03:31,690 --> 00:03:33,790 Speaker 2: and move toward healing. Because what I want you to 70 00:03:33,830 --> 00:03:36,090 Speaker 2: remember today is just because your brain has learned to 71 00:03:36,130 --> 00:03:38,450 Speaker 2: think a certain way doesn't mean you're destined to think 72 00:03:38,490 --> 00:03:41,790 Speaker 2: that way forever. Your past may help explain your patterns, 73 00:03:41,850 --> 00:03:44,420 Speaker 2: but it doesn't have to determine your future. Now, before 74 00:03:44,460 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 2: we jump in, I want to mention a special November 75 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: announcement real quick. Here at the American Association of Christian Counselors, 76 00:03:50,660 --> 00:03:53,940 Speaker 2: we have an educational branch called Light University, and we're 77 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 2: officially declaring November our month of neuroscience. Over the next 78 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,490 Speaker 2: three weeks, we're bringing you conversations with leading voices in 79 00:04:00,530 --> 00:04:01,850 Speaker 2: brain health and mental well-being. 80 00:04:02,250 --> 00:04:02,510 Speaker 3: Dr. 81 00:04:02,550 --> 00:04:05,470 Speaker 2: Lee Warren today, Dr. Caroline Leaf next week, and Dr. 82 00:04:05,530 --> 00:04:08,310 Speaker 2: Daniel Amen the following week. And here's why this matters, 83 00:04:08,750 --> 00:04:11,890 Speaker 2: because the brain is often the overlooked pathway to transformation. 84 00:04:12,350 --> 00:04:15,190 Speaker 2: We can encourage people to think, live, and respond differently, 85 00:04:15,230 --> 00:04:18,750 Speaker 2: but without understanding how the brain influences our emotions, our habits, 86 00:04:19,150 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 2: and our stress responses, we may be missing a critical 87 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: piece of the puzzle. That's why we've developed our 24-hour 88 00:04:26,060 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: Brain Health and Neuroscience Coaching Certification Program through Light University. 89 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:35,940 Speaker 2: Designed for Christian coaches, counselors, pastors, moms, dads, and ministry leaders, 90 00:04:36,380 --> 00:04:41,500 Speaker 2: this program provides practical neuroscience-informed tools to support healthier thinking, 91 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 2: emotional regulation, resilience, and meaningful behavioral change. And throughout the 92 00:04:46,610 --> 00:04:50,490 Speaker 2: month of November only, we're offering an exclusive scholarship. Normally $ 225, 93 00:04:50,390 --> 00:04:55,290 Speaker 2: we're providing a $ 126 scholarship, bringing your enrollment costs down 94 00:04:55,310 --> 00:04:59,070 Speaker 2: to just $ 99. All you have to do is visit 95 00:04:59,170 --> 00:05:03,630 Speaker 2: lightuniversity.com slash brain health, and you can enroll today again 96 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: for only $ 99. Again, that's lightuniversity.com slash brain health. Don't 97 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,370 Speaker 2: wait This exclusive offer expires November 30th. I'm telling you, 98 00:05:13,390 --> 00:05:16,370 Speaker 2: some of the leading experts in brain health and neuroscience 99 00:05:16,390 --> 00:05:21,289 Speaker 2: throughout this course, 24 hours, 365 days on demand. You 100 00:05:21,330 --> 00:05:23,630 Speaker 2: take it at your own pace, at your own time, 101 00:05:23,650 --> 00:05:26,500 Speaker 2: whatever's convenient and comfortable for you. But I'm telling you guys, 102 00:05:26,820 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 2: this is worth a whole lot more than $ 225, let 103 00:05:28,380 --> 00:05:30,260 Speaker 2: alone a $ 99 opportunity just this month alone. 104 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: Our mission is. 105 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,799 Speaker 2: Is to equip an army of Christian coaches, counselors, pastors, 106 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 2: and ministry leaders to bring greater hope and healing into 107 00:05:41,100 --> 00:05:43,860 Speaker 2: their communities. Because the more we understand how God designed 108 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,620 Speaker 2: the brain, the better equipped we become to help people 109 00:05:46,690 --> 00:05:50,130 Speaker 2: renew their minds, strengthen their resilience, and pursue lives of 110 00:05:50,210 --> 00:05:53,510 Speaker 2: greater faith and flourishing. Now without further ado, let's jump 111 00:05:53,550 --> 00:05:56,370 Speaker 2: into today's powerful conversation with my dad, Dr. Tim Clinton, 112 00:05:56,390 --> 00:05:59,450 Speaker 2: and our very special guest, Dr. Lee Warren, right here 113 00:05:59,940 --> 00:06:01,180 Speaker 2: on the Build Different podcast. 114 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 3: Dr. 115 00:06:01,460 --> 00:06:03,420 Speaker 2: Lee, my friend, welcome back to the show. We are 116 00:06:03,540 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 2: always grateful every opportunity we get to share a room 117 00:06:06,060 --> 00:06:08,580 Speaker 2: with you, let alone a conversation. Thank you so much 118 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 2: for joining us today, my friend. 119 00:06:10,620 --> 00:06:11,740 Speaker 1: What an honor to have you. 120 00:06:12,060 --> 00:06:12,659 Speaker 4: Thank you so much. 121 00:06:12,900 --> 00:06:14,950 Speaker 1: We are humbled that you would be here with us. 122 00:06:15,010 --> 00:06:17,030 Speaker 2: I'm so grateful to have another conversation with you because 123 00:06:17,110 --> 00:06:19,289 Speaker 2: after our first one on the podcast, I was telling 124 00:06:19,370 --> 00:06:22,430 Speaker 2: everybody about you. And it seems like everybody's been doing 125 00:06:22,450 --> 00:06:25,010 Speaker 2: the same thing because I've been watching what God has 126 00:06:25,050 --> 00:06:28,460 Speaker 2: been doing in and through your life. across social media platforms, 127 00:06:28,580 --> 00:06:30,300 Speaker 2: all of the different places you've been able to be 128 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:30,900 Speaker 2: interviewed on. 129 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,739 Speaker 1: I mean, it's been remarkable. It's blowing up. 130 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: Lee, I got to ask, what is the last couple 131 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:38,980 Speaker 2: of weeks and months been like for you and your family? 132 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 3: It's been crazy to see every day God's doing something 133 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,980 Speaker 3: and we're just kind of trembling at what's coming next 134 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,620 Speaker 3: because he just keeps opening doors we never saw. There's 135 00:06:48,660 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 3: a scripture that says, when God opens a door, nobody 136 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:52,539 Speaker 3: can shut it. And that's what it feels like. We're 137 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,110 Speaker 3: being just, the message is getting out and people are 138 00:06:56,260 --> 00:06:58,530 Speaker 3: seeing that they're not stuck with the brain they were 139 00:06:58,550 --> 00:07:01,089 Speaker 3: born with, and they're buying into it. And I just 140 00:07:01,450 --> 00:07:03,730 Speaker 3: tell people all the time, you can change your life 141 00:07:04,230 --> 00:07:05,790 Speaker 3: if you're ready to change your mind. And all of 142 00:07:05,810 --> 00:07:08,210 Speaker 3: a sudden, it seems like a million people are ready 143 00:07:08,250 --> 00:07:08,890 Speaker 3: to talk about it. 144 00:07:08,910 --> 00:07:09,870 Speaker 4: So it's been amazing. 145 00:07:10,250 --> 00:07:11,710 Speaker 2: At the heart of a lot of your work, when 146 00:07:11,750 --> 00:07:14,860 Speaker 2: it comes to this life-changing art of self-brain surgery, you 147 00:07:14,890 --> 00:07:17,980 Speaker 2: really help people distinguish the difference between the brain and 148 00:07:18,060 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 2: the mind and our. 149 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: Thought life and our beliefs. 150 00:07:20,980 --> 00:07:22,820 Speaker 2: Speak to that just up front as we dive into 151 00:07:22,860 --> 00:07:25,260 Speaker 2: this conversation, because that's really at the core of everything 152 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:26,330 Speaker 2: we'll be discussing. It is. 153 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:27,930 Speaker 3: I think it's the most important thing we need to 154 00:07:27,970 --> 00:07:31,770 Speaker 3: understand because our culture teaches us that we're the product 155 00:07:31,810 --> 00:07:34,410 Speaker 3: of our genetics, our parents, our upbringing, and the things 156 00:07:34,450 --> 00:07:36,930 Speaker 3: that happen to us, and that our brain becomes what 157 00:07:36,970 --> 00:07:39,330 Speaker 3: it is because of life and genes, and you can 158 00:07:39,370 --> 00:07:40,830 Speaker 3: break it, but you can't really fix it. You have 159 00:07:40,850 --> 00:07:42,910 Speaker 3: to manage it and deal with it. That's why we 160 00:07:42,930 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 3: see so many people adopting what they believe to be 161 00:07:44,950 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 3: an identity. This is how I am. This is what's 162 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:49,580 Speaker 3: happened to me. It becomes who I am and not 163 00:07:49,660 --> 00:07:52,980 Speaker 3: what happened. But neuroscience is finally catching up to what 164 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 3: Scripture said all along, that your brain changes constantly throughout 165 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,540 Speaker 3: your life. The reason that happens is that your mind 166 00:07:58,580 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 3: and your brain are not the same thing, which Christians 167 00:08:00,660 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 3: really intellectually at least should understand because we all know 168 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 3: when we die, there's some part of us that doesn't die. 169 00:08:07,180 --> 00:08:09,820 Speaker 3: Your brain does, but you don't. So obviously you're not 170 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 3: your brain, right? And so the part of us that's 171 00:08:12,220 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 3: made in God's image is not our body. He doesn't 172 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:15,140 Speaker 3: have a body like we do. 173 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 4: It's our mind. 174 00:08:15,940 --> 00:08:19,890 Speaker 3: We're the product of an immaterial God. that has given 175 00:08:19,930 --> 00:08:24,650 Speaker 3: us an immaterial soul, and the Bible conflates these terms, soul, mind, heart, brain, 176 00:08:24,690 --> 00:08:26,150 Speaker 3: not brain, soul, mind, and heart. 177 00:08:26,590 --> 00:08:27,030 Speaker 4: And spirit. 178 00:08:27,510 --> 00:08:30,620 Speaker 3: And so Christians understand that the part of us that 179 00:08:30,660 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 3: lives forever is not our brain, it's our mind. And 180 00:08:34,020 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 3: neuroscience is starting to show us now with functional imaging 181 00:08:36,460 --> 00:08:38,660 Speaker 3: that when you think about stuff, your brain reacts to 182 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 3: it and does something different in response to your thinking, 183 00:08:41,190 --> 00:08:43,850 Speaker 3: not the other way around. And so it's dramatic when 184 00:08:43,870 --> 00:08:46,110 Speaker 3: you understand that, that you're not stuck the way you've 185 00:08:46,130 --> 00:08:48,460 Speaker 3: been as soon as you're ready to think differently. And 186 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 3: that's why the Bible is always telling us, renew your mind, 187 00:08:50,460 --> 00:08:54,489 Speaker 3: take your thoughts captive, made in God's image in a 188 00:08:54,550 --> 00:08:57,689 Speaker 3: new way every day, renewed day by day. So we're 189 00:08:57,710 --> 00:09:00,390 Speaker 3: not stuck. We're not hopeless. As soon as you're ready 190 00:09:00,410 --> 00:09:03,010 Speaker 3: to believe that, because your brain really listens to what 191 00:09:03,030 --> 00:09:05,510 Speaker 3: you think and becomes what you think about. And so 192 00:09:06,130 --> 00:09:07,500 Speaker 3: that's why I think it's so powerful. 193 00:09:07,940 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: There's a real battle for the mind. 194 00:09:09,900 --> 00:09:10,420 Speaker 4: Absolutely. 195 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,059 Speaker 5: Constantly, we're pressed at every turn, if you will. And 196 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,090 Speaker 5: as a man thinketh again, In his heart, so he is. 197 00:09:18,210 --> 00:09:23,250 Speaker 5: In this battlefield for the mind, Lee, everybody has all 198 00:09:23,290 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 5: kinds of thoughts. You know, that life experiences, everything begins 199 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,579 Speaker 5: to just kind of process and you put things through 200 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,780 Speaker 5: that sort of filter, if you will. And so they 201 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 5: get lodged in there and we've got memories, all kinds 202 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,500 Speaker 5: of things just come together and events that trigger things. 203 00:09:41,660 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 5: But we also know that Some of life's most difficult 204 00:09:49,740 --> 00:09:53,740 Speaker 5: and meaningful lessons are learned in the valleys. You know, 205 00:09:53,780 --> 00:09:57,949 Speaker 5: that in those dark places where it's like everything gets 206 00:09:58,010 --> 00:10:02,070 Speaker 5: blown up and you're flabbergasted. to think your way through 207 00:10:02,110 --> 00:10:04,270 Speaker 5: this thing or try to make sense out of something. 208 00:10:04,570 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 5: The old Puritans would call it the valley of vision. 209 00:10:07,030 --> 00:10:07,290 Speaker 4: Yeah. 210 00:10:07,390 --> 00:10:09,010 Speaker 5: You know that when you're down in there and Lee, 211 00:10:09,050 --> 00:10:12,620 Speaker 5: I think a lot of where and what you are 212 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,939 Speaker 5: doing and, and, and processing and sharing is, is coming 213 00:10:19,100 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 5: out of some of that. Can you take us into 214 00:10:21,020 --> 00:10:23,150 Speaker 5: that for a moment and how God used that to 215 00:10:23,330 --> 00:10:26,390 Speaker 5: shape you, even though you've got this brilliant mind, you 216 00:10:26,410 --> 00:10:30,990 Speaker 5: understand all this dynamic, but there's that piece that began 217 00:10:31,010 --> 00:10:32,610 Speaker 5: to really just anchor you. 218 00:10:33,050 --> 00:10:35,949 Speaker 4: That's right. It started for me in the Iraq war. 219 00:10:35,970 --> 00:10:39,300 Speaker 3: So I was deployed in 2005 to a combat hospital, 220 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 3: a tent hospital in Iraq, and had 100 mortar and 221 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,860 Speaker 3: rocket attacks while I was there, did 200 brain surgeries 222 00:10:45,020 --> 00:10:47,300 Speaker 3: in that environment, and really saw it. 223 00:10:47,650 --> 00:10:49,189 Speaker 4: Day by day, the worst. 224 00:10:49,010 --> 00:10:50,950 Speaker 3: Things that humans can do to each other and in 225 00:10:50,970 --> 00:10:53,849 Speaker 3: the context of also being exposed to physical danger at 226 00:10:53,890 --> 00:10:55,870 Speaker 3: the same time. And so even though I was a 227 00:10:56,250 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 3: neuroscientist and practicing neurosurgeon, I came home from the war 228 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,059 Speaker 3: with my own brain telling me unreliable things. And I 229 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,220 Speaker 3: would recognize it. It kind of came out a few 230 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,460 Speaker 3: years after the war, actually. And I would be in 231 00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:11,780 Speaker 3: a safe place, a grocery store, someplace completely safe. 232 00:11:11,900 --> 00:11:13,429 Speaker 4: And I would hear a sound and all of a 233 00:11:13,450 --> 00:11:14,449 Speaker 4: sudden I was back in the war. 234 00:11:14,470 --> 00:11:14,730 Speaker 1: Triggered. 235 00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:15,089 Speaker 5: Boom. 236 00:11:15,350 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 3: And I had to tell myself that my brain was unreliable. 237 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,970 Speaker 3: My brain was telling me things that were objectively not true. 238 00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:23,010 Speaker 3: And so it took a long time to sort of 239 00:11:23,050 --> 00:11:26,010 Speaker 3: work through all that and get back in control of that. 240 00:11:26,050 --> 00:11:28,309 Speaker 3: But I figured out that you can, and you can 241 00:11:28,370 --> 00:11:31,190 Speaker 3: by reminding yourself of what's true. Again, the Bible tells 242 00:11:31,230 --> 00:11:33,089 Speaker 3: us to take our thoughts captive. Like don't let your 243 00:11:33,110 --> 00:11:35,910 Speaker 3: brain boss you around. Your mind can take charge of 244 00:11:35,950 --> 00:11:38,630 Speaker 3: that process. So just as we were coming out of 245 00:11:38,650 --> 00:11:41,290 Speaker 3: that and my wife, Lisa helped me begin to unpack 246 00:11:41,309 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 3: that really by journaling and writing and starting to, to, 247 00:11:44,470 --> 00:11:46,370 Speaker 3: put down on paper the things I was feeling and 248 00:11:46,410 --> 00:11:49,510 Speaker 3: processing them. And right as we were starting to finally 249 00:11:49,530 --> 00:11:52,069 Speaker 3: feel like that was all in the past, our 19-year-old son, Mitch, 250 00:11:52,110 --> 00:11:56,190 Speaker 3: was murdered and stabbed to death in 2013. And then 251 00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:58,550 Speaker 3: I was right back in it. Except the difference this 252 00:11:58,610 --> 00:12:02,209 Speaker 3: time was that before, when I'd gone to war, I 253 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 3: turned towards God when I was hurting. And this time 254 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:07,700 Speaker 3: I got really mad at him. And so I had 255 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,340 Speaker 3: this secondary experience of not only being traumatized and hearing 256 00:12:11,380 --> 00:12:14,340 Speaker 3: those thoughts and feelings again, but now I'm not not 257 00:12:14,380 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 3: really knowing what I could do with it in terms 258 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:17,089 Speaker 3: of turning back to God. 259 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:18,830 Speaker 4: I was mad. I was angry. 260 00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:23,390 Speaker 3: And so I had to recognize that nothing felt true 261 00:12:23,590 --> 00:12:25,890 Speaker 3: for a little while. My brain wasn't telling me the truth. 262 00:12:26,010 --> 00:12:28,250 Speaker 3: I didn't know if my faith was true. I was 263 00:12:28,290 --> 00:12:30,429 Speaker 3: filled with doubt, and I felt bad about that because 264 00:12:30,450 --> 00:12:33,370 Speaker 3: I was a lifelong student of the Scripture. And so 265 00:12:33,390 --> 00:12:35,350 Speaker 3: I had to figure out a way to find out 266 00:12:35,390 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 3: what was true again, and I recognized that the hope 267 00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:39,839 Speaker 3: that I had was based on the idea that I 268 00:12:39,860 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 3: would get to see Mitch again in the resurrection. And 269 00:12:42,260 --> 00:12:44,710 Speaker 3: so I needed that to be true. So I started 270 00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:48,110 Speaker 3: searching scripture for promises that I could test out before then. 271 00:12:48,610 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 3: And the first one was somebody sent us a scripture, 272 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,339 Speaker 3: Psalm 34, 18, the Lord is close to the brokenhearted 273 00:12:53,540 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 3: and binds. 274 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 4: Up their wounds. 275 00:12:54,740 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 3: And I found that every day when I was at 276 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,020 Speaker 3: my worst moment, Lisa would walk in the room or 277 00:13:00,059 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 3: somebody would send me a text or somebody would send 278 00:13:02,140 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 3: me a scripture or Jesus calling would speak right to 279 00:13:05,220 --> 00:13:06,870 Speaker 3: the event we were dealing with right then. And the 280 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,630 Speaker 3: Lord was close to me. I felt them in the 281 00:13:08,690 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 3: presence of other people and the word. And one by one, 282 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,459 Speaker 3: I started grabbing onto those promises that I could test. 283 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 3: The Bible says, test me, you know, test me. Taste 284 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,100 Speaker 3: and see that I'm good. And I kept testing him, 285 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,490 Speaker 3: and he turned out to be with me when I 286 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,130 Speaker 3: was brokenhearted. And so I just used those promises as 287 00:13:24,210 --> 00:13:26,410 Speaker 3: rungs on the ladder to start climbing towards the ultimate 288 00:13:26,450 --> 00:13:29,730 Speaker 3: one of resurrection and redemption. And I found that when 289 00:13:29,770 --> 00:13:32,970 Speaker 3: I did that, when I reconciled God's word up against 290 00:13:33,070 --> 00:13:35,209 Speaker 3: the feelings and thoughts that I was having, God's word 291 00:13:35,250 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 3: always turned out to be truth. And so that led 292 00:13:38,290 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 3: us back. I started looking at science and how my 293 00:13:41,179 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 3: practice was in different ways, testing out my faith too. 294 00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 3: And I just found my way back to hope using 295 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,180 Speaker 3: God's word up against my thoughts and feelings. Wow. 296 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,740 Speaker 2: So I'm thinking about, and I want to make sure 297 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 2: that you can clarify if I'm wrong on this, but 298 00:13:55,860 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 2: what I'm really hearing people say and what I've kind 299 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,579 Speaker 2: of dubbed in my own mind is that it's really 300 00:13:59,620 --> 00:14:02,660 Speaker 2: not about the suffering. That's why people stay stuck. It's 301 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 2: about the stories that they begin to believe about God. 302 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 2: about themselves, about other people in spite of the suffering. 303 00:14:10,540 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 2: And so I'm just beginning to think about the brain 304 00:14:12,580 --> 00:14:15,179 Speaker 2: and the mind and again, that connection and then how 305 00:14:15,220 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 2: it begins to actually happen on the behavior in the body. 306 00:14:18,620 --> 00:14:22,750 Speaker 2: You shared a story in our last conversation where you 307 00:14:22,770 --> 00:14:26,590 Speaker 2: talked about in the very lowest moments of your life, 308 00:14:26,650 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 2: somebody was saying like, Lee, you got to get back up. 309 00:14:28,750 --> 00:14:29,770 Speaker 1: You got to get back to work. 310 00:14:30,070 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 2: And there was a moment when you saw a woman 311 00:14:32,570 --> 00:14:34,990 Speaker 2: who was actually on the table and there was something 312 00:14:35,030 --> 00:14:37,310 Speaker 2: going on. You were able to see her brain when 313 00:14:37,330 --> 00:14:39,350 Speaker 2: they told her to think about something negative as compared 314 00:14:39,370 --> 00:14:41,290 Speaker 2: to thinking about something positive and the difference. 315 00:14:41,650 --> 00:14:42,430 Speaker 1: Share that if you would. 316 00:14:42,750 --> 00:14:44,590 Speaker 3: This is about a month after Mitch died. We had 317 00:14:44,670 --> 00:14:48,130 Speaker 3: just gone back to work. We had a private practice 318 00:14:48,290 --> 00:14:49,790 Speaker 3: and had to go back to work at some point. 319 00:14:50,250 --> 00:14:53,100 Speaker 3: We had 10 employees and just the business means you 320 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,180 Speaker 3: got to go back to work at some point. And 321 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,500 Speaker 3: our office at the time was in a research center 322 00:14:57,540 --> 00:15:00,690 Speaker 3: at Auburn University and where they were doing this functional MRI, 323 00:15:01,050 --> 00:15:04,290 Speaker 3: really world-class research on brain imaging. And we got invited, 324 00:15:04,310 --> 00:15:06,910 Speaker 3: Lisa and I, she ran our practice then. We got 325 00:15:06,950 --> 00:15:08,950 Speaker 3: invited to a meeting in the scanner and we watched 326 00:15:08,970 --> 00:15:10,810 Speaker 3: this research happening and they put a woman in and 327 00:15:10,830 --> 00:15:13,310 Speaker 3: they had earphones on her so they could communicate with her. 328 00:15:13,930 --> 00:15:14,510 Speaker 4: And they said, Mrs. 329 00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:16,940 Speaker 3: Johnson, think about the worst thing you've ever felt in 330 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 3: your life. And we had scanned her brain already so 331 00:15:19,140 --> 00:15:21,620 Speaker 3: we knew what her brain was doing before she changed 332 00:15:21,660 --> 00:15:24,130 Speaker 3: what she was thinking about. And she kind of furled 333 00:15:24,170 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 3: up her brow and thought about whatever it was that 334 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 3: was the worst moment of her life. And I was 335 00:15:28,340 --> 00:15:30,300 Speaker 3: thinking about mine. It was a month before with Mitch. 336 00:15:31,020 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 3: And we saw her brain's fear center, the amygdala, light 337 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,359 Speaker 3: up in response to what she was thinking about. It 338 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,790 Speaker 3: wasn't already lighting up. She thought about something, and then 339 00:15:39,850 --> 00:15:42,470 Speaker 3: it reacted. So her brain reacted to her mind. I 340 00:15:42,490 --> 00:15:45,730 Speaker 3: saw this with my eyes. And then her physiology changed. 341 00:15:45,770 --> 00:15:48,750 Speaker 3: Her blood pressure went up. Her heart rate went up. 342 00:15:48,830 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 3: All the vital signs reacted as if she was in danger. 343 00:15:51,340 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 3: Her brain was telling her that she was in danger. 344 00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 3: And then they said, Mrs. Johnson, stop thinking about that 345 00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:58,070 Speaker 3: and now start thinking about the best day of your life, 346 00:15:58,090 --> 00:16:01,930 Speaker 3: your happiest memory. Very quickly, Zach, her fear center turned off. 347 00:16:02,270 --> 00:16:04,270 Speaker 3: Frontal lobes came online. Other parts of her brain lit 348 00:16:04,330 --> 00:16:06,710 Speaker 3: up that are associated with better feelings. And then her 349 00:16:06,730 --> 00:16:08,729 Speaker 3: blood pressure and heart rate came down just like that. 350 00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:11,910 Speaker 3: Her brain responded to her mind. Her body responded to 351 00:16:11,950 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 3: her brain. And we saw in real time that mind 352 00:16:15,630 --> 00:16:18,340 Speaker 3: and brain are not the same thing. And Lisa said, 353 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,700 Speaker 3: that reminds me of Philippians 4. And I said, what 354 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 3: do you mean? And she said, well, it says think 355 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 3: about better stuff and you won't be as anxious. Think 356 00:16:24,540 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 3: about gratitude and you won't be afraid. And think about 357 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 3: what's noble and true and good. And that's exactly what 358 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,730 Speaker 3: we saw. Brain and mind are not the same thing. 359 00:16:32,290 --> 00:16:35,490 Speaker 3: And so right in that moment, I'm not a charismatic guy. 360 00:16:35,730 --> 00:16:38,990 Speaker 3: I was raised in a really kind of fundamentalist tradition. 361 00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:40,890 Speaker 3: We don't talk about the Holy Spirit very much back then. 362 00:16:41,650 --> 00:16:45,670 Speaker 3: And in that moment, though, the Lord said, Lee, what 363 00:16:45,690 --> 00:16:47,550 Speaker 3: do you do when you do brain surgery on somebody? 364 00:16:47,630 --> 00:16:51,540 Speaker 3: You intentionally... change the structure of their brain for the 365 00:16:51,580 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 3: purpose of making their life better. 366 00:16:53,420 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 4: And I said, yeah, that's right. And he said, that's 367 00:16:55,330 --> 00:16:57,330 Speaker 4: what she just did. She just changed the. 368 00:16:57,250 --> 00:16:59,590 Speaker 3: Structure of her brain in order to make her life better. 369 00:17:00,090 --> 00:17:01,990 Speaker 3: And if you're going to feel better about losing Mitch, 370 00:17:02,190 --> 00:17:03,950 Speaker 3: you've got to change how you're thinking about this event. 371 00:17:03,970 --> 00:17:05,629 Speaker 4: You've got to change. 372 00:17:05,550 --> 00:17:08,610 Speaker 3: From the story being it's all over to being there's 373 00:17:08,650 --> 00:17:12,149 Speaker 3: a coming renewal and a reunion. And you've got to 374 00:17:12,170 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 3: think about the things that you're grateful for about his life. 375 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 3: And when you're doing that, it's surgery on your own brain. 376 00:17:17,820 --> 00:17:20,389 Speaker 3: It's self-brain surgery. And that's where all this work for 377 00:17:20,410 --> 00:17:22,750 Speaker 3: the last 13 years, I've been pursuing how science and 378 00:17:22,810 --> 00:17:25,030 Speaker 3: faith can work together to reveal things that God said 379 00:17:25,070 --> 00:17:27,230 Speaker 3: that are true and try to give people that hope. 380 00:17:27,250 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 3: And that really became my purpose. And as Victor Frankel said, 381 00:17:30,100 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 3: I think you and I talked about this too, like 382 00:17:31,980 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 3: suffering stops being suffering when you give it purpose, when 383 00:17:34,420 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 3: you find out what the meaning behind it is. And 384 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 3: for me, it was the purpose of my suffering wasn't 385 00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:42,609 Speaker 3: to be a bereaved father, broken and alcoholic or lost 386 00:17:42,690 --> 00:17:44,630 Speaker 3: and divorced and all the things that happen to people 387 00:17:44,670 --> 00:17:47,730 Speaker 3: who lose kids. It was to be able to give 388 00:17:47,850 --> 00:17:51,410 Speaker 3: voice to things that I was feeling and explain them 389 00:17:51,470 --> 00:17:54,950 Speaker 3: scientifically and scripturally to other people that didn't have that 390 00:17:55,010 --> 00:17:57,830 Speaker 3: background so they could know that it was really true, 391 00:17:58,230 --> 00:18:00,350 Speaker 3: that you can get better after these things. The trauma 392 00:18:00,390 --> 00:18:02,869 Speaker 3: is not what happened to you. It's the story you 393 00:18:02,910 --> 00:18:04,910 Speaker 3: tell yourself in response to what happened to you because 394 00:18:04,950 --> 00:18:07,909 Speaker 3: your brain organizes itself around what you think about. And 395 00:18:07,930 --> 00:18:10,379 Speaker 3: so if your thoughts are, life's over for me, it's 396 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 3: never going to get better than this, I'll never be 397 00:18:12,060 --> 00:18:14,740 Speaker 3: okay again, that's what's going to come true for the 398 00:18:14,780 --> 00:18:16,689 Speaker 3: most part. Because your brain is going to believe that 399 00:18:16,750 --> 00:18:18,710 Speaker 3: story and it's going to start organizing your life and 400 00:18:18,750 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 3: filtering for that to be the case. And God says 401 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,780 Speaker 3: it doesn't have to be that way. If you're ready 402 00:18:23,820 --> 00:18:25,300 Speaker 3: to change your mind, you have to take command of 403 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 3: your thoughts. And that's what we did that day in 404 00:18:26,700 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 3: the scanner. And for me, I think God needed to 405 00:18:28,540 --> 00:18:30,970 Speaker 3: show it to me scientifically because that's how I think 406 00:18:31,010 --> 00:18:33,210 Speaker 3: about things. And so I think he comes to us 407 00:18:33,290 --> 00:18:35,649 Speaker 3: in the language that we speak in the background that 408 00:18:35,670 --> 00:18:37,770 Speaker 3: we have and shows us things. And that moment was 409 00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 3: the moment that it began to turn around for me. 410 00:18:41,700 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 2: Hey, my friend, before we jump back into today's conversation, 411 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,500 Speaker 2: I just want to remind you that Built Different is 412 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,260 Speaker 2: proudly sponsored by Liberty University. This partnership means a lot 413 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,340 Speaker 2: to me personally. You know, I was born and raised 414 00:18:52,380 --> 00:18:55,260 Speaker 2: in Lynchburg, Virginia, and I've watched Liberty grow tremendously over 415 00:18:55,300 --> 00:18:58,820 Speaker 2: the years, but I've also experienced firsthand the impact this 416 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 2: university can have on a life. I graduated from Liberty. 417 00:19:02,369 --> 00:19:04,429 Speaker 2: I played four years of Division I baseball here. I 418 00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:07,430 Speaker 2: met some of my closest friends and most influential mentors here. 419 00:19:07,450 --> 00:19:10,650 Speaker 2: I met my wife, Evelyn, here, and most importantly, Liberty 420 00:19:10,690 --> 00:19:13,190 Speaker 2: became part of the story God used to deepen my 421 00:19:13,230 --> 00:19:16,970 Speaker 2: relationship with Jesus Christ. Today, I have the privilege of 422 00:19:17,050 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 2: continuing that story by serving Liberty Athletics and investing in 423 00:19:20,170 --> 00:19:23,390 Speaker 2: the lives and mental health of our student athletes. That's 424 00:19:23,420 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 2: why I believe so deeply in Liberty's mission to train 425 00:19:26,820 --> 00:19:31,859 Speaker 2: champions for Christ. With more than 16,000 residential students and 426 00:19:31,859 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 2: 600 online programs, Liberty gives you the opportunity to pursue 427 00:19:35,260 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 2: your education alongside faculty who want to help equip you 428 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,530 Speaker 2: for your calling on campus, online, and around the world. 429 00:19:42,869 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 2: To learn more and to take that next step, all 430 00:19:45,060 --> 00:19:48,369 Speaker 2: you have to do is go to liberty.edu forward slash 431 00:19:48,470 --> 00:19:57,730 Speaker 2: built different today. A lot of people have often said 432 00:19:57,770 --> 00:20:02,090 Speaker 2: the mind can be a very dark and turbulent place, 433 00:20:02,950 --> 00:20:06,970 Speaker 2: or the mind can be pretty free and beautiful and creative. 434 00:20:07,010 --> 00:20:07,430 Speaker 5: You know that? 435 00:20:07,450 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. 436 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,950 Speaker 5: For a lot of people, because of life, whatever has 437 00:20:12,010 --> 00:20:15,870 Speaker 5: come their way, they say, if you know what goes 438 00:20:15,970 --> 00:20:19,550 Speaker 5: on up here, you would understand. 439 00:20:19,609 --> 00:20:23,870 Speaker 1: In other words, this isn't okay. 440 00:20:25,470 --> 00:20:29,550 Speaker 5: And I hear that I need to do thought stopping 441 00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:31,830 Speaker 5: and thought replacement and those kind of different things. 442 00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:35,669 Speaker 1: But for me, it's hard to do that because, again, 443 00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:36,820 Speaker 1: I fight it. 444 00:20:37,450 --> 00:20:38,010 Speaker 4: What do you do? 445 00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:41,770 Speaker 5: How do you begin to just help people kind of 446 00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:47,290 Speaker 5: calm down that rehearsing and that room rumination stuff that 447 00:20:47,530 --> 00:20:49,970 Speaker 5: often just gets ahold of them. You know that I 448 00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 5: think in, in neuroscience or interpersonal neuroscience, this, this, this 449 00:20:54,140 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 5: like the brain begins to develop writing and more patterns, 450 00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 5: things that quote wire. 451 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,020 Speaker 4: Together, fire together type thing. 452 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 5: You know, that speaks to some of that and how 453 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,929 Speaker 5: you approach people who they're, they're, they're in a battle, right? 454 00:21:08,660 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 3: Well, there's this thing called Hebb's Law we talk about 455 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,980 Speaker 3: all the time, neuroplasticity, this idea that Donald Hebb gave 456 00:21:14,020 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 3: us of neurons that fire together, wire together. And that 457 00:21:17,060 --> 00:21:21,770 Speaker 3: happens in response to the brain making things more automatic 458 00:21:22,290 --> 00:21:24,090 Speaker 3: over time the more we think about them. 459 00:21:24,130 --> 00:21:25,310 Speaker 4: And that's God's design for us. 460 00:21:25,310 --> 00:21:26,570 Speaker 5: It's almost like muscle memory in sports. 461 00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:29,210 Speaker 3: It's muscle memory, it's brain memory. But the reason God 462 00:21:29,230 --> 00:21:31,830 Speaker 3: gave us that is so we can use our thought processes, 463 00:21:31,890 --> 00:21:34,260 Speaker 3: our mind, our mental energy to do more important things 464 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,700 Speaker 3: than You don't remember what buttons on the calculator to 465 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,420 Speaker 3: push and that sort of thing. So your brain will 466 00:21:38,460 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 3: program and automate things. Unfortunately, though, it works whether we 467 00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:46,060 Speaker 3: direct it or not. And if you're sitting around ruminating 468 00:21:46,140 --> 00:21:48,619 Speaker 3: and thinking about toxic things, your brain begins to automate 469 00:21:48,660 --> 00:21:50,060 Speaker 3: that stuff where it comes out of you. 470 00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:51,780 Speaker 4: Yes, it does. When you're not doing it intentionally. 471 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,140 Speaker 3: So people begin to feel like this is just how 472 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,810 Speaker 3: I am because they've basically given their brain consent to 473 00:21:57,900 --> 00:22:00,409 Speaker 3: automate those things. and turn that into what kind of 474 00:22:00,450 --> 00:22:03,969 Speaker 3: brain they have. So the fix for it is, I think, starts, 475 00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 3: at least in my life, it starts with the morning 476 00:22:06,420 --> 00:22:10,179 Speaker 3: quiet time where I spend some time telling my brain 477 00:22:10,660 --> 00:22:12,780 Speaker 3: what I want it to do in response to various 478 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,100 Speaker 3: stresses that I might encounter that day. There's this thing 479 00:22:16,140 --> 00:22:18,740 Speaker 3: in aneurysm surgery we do in the brain called proximal control. 480 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:19,940 Speaker 3: We're going to talk about that in a little while, 481 00:22:20,540 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 3: where if you're going to deal with a brain aneurysm, 482 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,530 Speaker 3: you don't just wait for it to rupture and then 483 00:22:24,550 --> 00:22:27,010 Speaker 3: try to figure out where it's bleeding. You find the 484 00:22:27,090 --> 00:22:29,389 Speaker 3: artery that it comes from and you expose it so 485 00:22:29,410 --> 00:22:32,149 Speaker 3: that you can control the parent artery and then go 486 00:22:32,190 --> 00:22:34,610 Speaker 3: deal with the aneurysm in a safe way. What most 487 00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:36,389 Speaker 3: of us do with our thinking is we just stumble 488 00:22:36,450 --> 00:22:39,189 Speaker 3: into some situation that sets us off. And then all 489 00:22:39,230 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 3: those old automations come out because we've neurons that fire together, 490 00:22:42,420 --> 00:22:44,239 Speaker 3: wire together. We've done it before a million times. This 491 00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:45,900 Speaker 3: is what I do. This is what my family does 492 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 3: when we're mad. We yell, we punch walls, we drink alcohol, 493 00:22:48,540 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 3: we do whatever because that's how we are. Right. But 494 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 3: it actually is just the way you've automated your brain. 495 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 3: And so if you spend time in the morning and 496 00:22:55,940 --> 00:22:57,540 Speaker 3: you think about your day, and my kids are going 497 00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 3: to be, we're going to be running late for school, 498 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 3: and my boss is going to yell at me, and 499 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 3: this is going to happen, and that's going to happen, 500 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 3: and you think about those events, and you tell your brain, okay, 501 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,830 Speaker 3: when it does happen, instead of yelling like I normally do, 502 00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:11,550 Speaker 3: what if I did this instead? And then you use 503 00:23:11,970 --> 00:23:13,889 Speaker 3: the fact that your brain doesn't know the difference between 504 00:23:13,930 --> 00:23:16,410 Speaker 3: what's actually happening and what you're just imagining. Your brain 505 00:23:16,430 --> 00:23:19,150 Speaker 3: will automate, even if you're just imagining things or ruminating 506 00:23:19,170 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 3: about them. So you can use, instead of rumination, you 507 00:23:21,540 --> 00:23:24,189 Speaker 3: can use sort of a meditative practice to to go 508 00:23:24,250 --> 00:23:27,030 Speaker 3: ahead of that event and wire those new responses. And 509 00:23:27,070 --> 00:23:29,609 Speaker 3: this has been studied really well in athletes and concert 510 00:23:29,650 --> 00:23:33,490 Speaker 3: pianists and fighter pilots where visualizing a performance is coming 511 00:23:33,619 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 3: up when they actually perform it. They're something like 22% 512 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 3: better at it. Same thing happens in our thought processes 513 00:23:39,260 --> 00:23:41,859 Speaker 3: in our daily lives. So if you're frustrated with the 514 00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 3: way your brain behaves when you're under stress, go ahead 515 00:23:44,820 --> 00:23:47,459 Speaker 3: of it and think through the day and program some 516 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:48,940 Speaker 3: of those things ahead of time. And then when you're 517 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,550 Speaker 3: under pressure, you're going to behave, you're going to perform 518 00:23:51,570 --> 00:23:54,150 Speaker 3: better than if you hadn't run those reps ahead of time, 519 00:23:54,450 --> 00:23:55,149 Speaker 3: just like an athlete. 520 00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:58,909 Speaker 2: Well, we consistently rehearse, right? Cognitive rehearsal, visualization, all of 521 00:23:58,950 --> 00:24:01,270 Speaker 2: these things, putting these things into practice every single day. 522 00:24:01,290 --> 00:24:04,490 Speaker 2: We talk a lot about rumination is the pathological obsession 523 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 2: with our pain. In our last conversation, you said how grief, trauma, 524 00:24:08,500 --> 00:24:11,100 Speaker 2: pain has a way of narrowing our vision. And you 525 00:24:11,140 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 2: said that hope has a way of widening it again. 526 00:24:13,660 --> 00:24:16,300 Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about for somebody out there today, they 527 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,740 Speaker 2: have those memories, though, that keep on getting triggered. I 528 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 2: think about what you mentioned in our last conversation, too, 529 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,340 Speaker 2: about going down and sneaking into Mitch's room. And you 530 00:24:25,380 --> 00:24:28,370 Speaker 2: mentioned you remember the day that you couldn't smell him 531 00:24:28,460 --> 00:24:29,490 Speaker 2: on his clothes anymore. 532 00:24:30,490 --> 00:24:33,750 Speaker 1: That thought triggers something. Think about it. 533 00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:36,850 Speaker 2: You mentioned watching a show, Operation Kill, and it taking 534 00:24:36,890 --> 00:24:39,649 Speaker 2: you back onto the battlefield. Like, boom, it triggered something. 535 00:24:40,170 --> 00:24:42,250 Speaker 2: The first thought isn't always in our control, but the 536 00:24:42,290 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 2: second thought is. I'm just thinking about God's Word doesn't 537 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,619 Speaker 2: call us to ruminate. It calls us to renovate. It 538 00:24:48,660 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 2: calls us to take every thought captive. It calls us 539 00:24:50,820 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 2: to submit it under the authority of Christ. It calls 540 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,909 Speaker 2: us to think on these things. You have all of 541 00:24:55,940 --> 00:24:59,410 Speaker 2: these lessons and these laws within this book, The Life-Changing 542 00:24:59,450 --> 00:25:02,190 Speaker 2: Art of Self-Brain Surgery. I'd love for you, Lee, just 543 00:25:02,230 --> 00:25:04,889 Speaker 2: to share a couple of the most significant ones with 544 00:25:04,970 --> 00:25:06,910 Speaker 2: our audience so that way they know how they can 545 00:25:06,970 --> 00:25:09,210 Speaker 2: begin to renew their mind. 546 00:25:09,230 --> 00:25:12,810 Speaker 3: Well, I think the very first thing that people really 547 00:25:12,830 --> 00:25:15,540 Speaker 3: need to understand is that These are not just sort 548 00:25:15,580 --> 00:25:19,790 Speaker 3: of self-help ideas, nice ideas. These are structural, mechanical things 549 00:25:19,810 --> 00:25:23,530 Speaker 3: that change in your brain. Like you really structurally, surgically 550 00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:25,730 Speaker 3: change the brain. So when I talk about self-brain surgery, 551 00:25:25,750 --> 00:25:28,310 Speaker 3: it's not a metaphor. Like this is the mechanism of 552 00:25:28,369 --> 00:25:30,540 Speaker 3: how God allows us to do the thing he said. 553 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 3: When God says something, it's true all the way down 554 00:25:33,020 --> 00:25:35,060 Speaker 3: from sort of metaphor to medicine to mechanism. 555 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 4: All the way down. 556 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,139 Speaker 3: And so I gave you these, what we call the 557 00:25:38,140 --> 00:25:40,610 Speaker 3: 10 commandments of self-brain surgery. These are just lessons I've 558 00:25:40,619 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 3: learned from neuroscience and scripture that And the first one is, 559 00:25:43,820 --> 00:25:45,859 Speaker 3: if I'm going to ask you to stop being a 560 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 3: victim of your thoughts and start operating on them like 561 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,260 Speaker 3: a surgeon, then you have to do what surgeons do, 562 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 3: which is we take an oath not to commit malpractice 563 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 3: against our patient. So the first one is, don't commit 564 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,300 Speaker 3: malpractice against yourself. So we relentlessly refuse to participate in 565 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,540 Speaker 3: our own demise. Just stop doing stuff that you know 566 00:26:02,580 --> 00:26:04,500 Speaker 3: to be harmful to yourself. If we could eliminate that 567 00:26:04,540 --> 00:26:07,700 Speaker 3: in your clients, stop doing the things that you already 568 00:26:07,740 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 3: know is going to hurt you tomorrow. Don't drink too 569 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 3: much tonight. Don't yell at your wife. Don't get on 570 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,580 Speaker 3: your phone and not talk to your kids, that tomorrow 571 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 3: you're going to regret that. So stop doing that. Tomorrow 572 00:26:16,140 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 3: is going to be a lot better, right? So quit 573 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,619 Speaker 3: committing malpractice against yourself. That's number one. Number two and 574 00:26:20,660 --> 00:26:25,260 Speaker 3: three are really important. Based on research, feelings are not facts. 575 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,139 Speaker 3: They're chemical events in my brain. So most everybody in 576 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,870 Speaker 3: this culture today says you feel your feelings, you live. 577 00:26:30,790 --> 00:26:32,710 Speaker 4: Your truth, you do your thing, you follow your heart. 578 00:26:32,990 --> 00:26:35,169 Speaker 3: We believe that we're supposed to honor and protect our 579 00:26:35,210 --> 00:26:38,260 Speaker 3: feelings and get other people to not violate them. But 580 00:26:38,580 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 3: research is pretty clear. Something like two-thirds of the things 581 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,179 Speaker 3: we automatically feel and think turn out not to be 582 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,340 Speaker 3: really true or accurate. They're skewed towards negativity or they're 583 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,060 Speaker 3: looked at from the wrong perspective. So if you just 584 00:26:48,740 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 3: get ahead of that and understand that a lot of 585 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 3: the things that I automatically think and feel are not 586 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 3: true and you stop reacting to things that aren't true, again, 587 00:26:56,740 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 3: you're going to eliminate a whole bunch of the things 588 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,930 Speaker 3: that cause you trouble in your life. So Quit committing 589 00:27:00,950 --> 00:27:04,430 Speaker 3: malpractice and stop automatically reacting to things. You guys call 590 00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 3: it metacognition, where you get outside the thought and feeling. 591 00:27:07,220 --> 00:27:09,180 Speaker 3: You operate on it instead of letting it operate on you. 592 00:27:09,660 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 3: And so then the fourth one is this must believe 593 00:27:12,060 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 3: my mind and my brain are not the same thing. 594 00:27:14,460 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 3: If I can separate that and I can truly believe it, 595 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,740 Speaker 3: then that gives me an ability to operate my system 596 00:27:19,900 --> 00:27:25,070 Speaker 3: as somebody with some power, some operating skill instead of 597 00:27:25,090 --> 00:27:27,330 Speaker 3: being a victim of whatever my brain decides to do 598 00:27:27,369 --> 00:27:29,689 Speaker 3: that day. Because so many people I see this on 599 00:27:29,730 --> 00:27:32,169 Speaker 3: social media all the time. I can't change. This is 600 00:27:32,210 --> 00:27:34,430 Speaker 3: how I am. It's hopeless for me. It's been too long. 601 00:27:34,450 --> 00:27:35,010 Speaker 4: I'm too old. 602 00:27:35,410 --> 00:27:38,470 Speaker 3: Well, neuroplasticity works until the day you die. It works 603 00:27:38,510 --> 00:27:40,060 Speaker 3: the day you're born and it works the day you die. 604 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 3: God gave it to you for your whole life. You 605 00:27:41,660 --> 00:27:43,959 Speaker 3: can change your brain at any age. You may have 606 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 3: to work harder at it if you're ADHD or if 607 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 3: you've had some really traumatic experience. You may need a 608 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,260 Speaker 3: professional to do that. But it is happening inside your 609 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 3: brain whether you direct it or not. So direct it 610 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 3: instead of being a victim of it. So there's six 611 00:27:55,420 --> 00:27:57,990 Speaker 3: other ones. But those are the commandments that really, if 612 00:27:58,030 --> 00:28:00,010 Speaker 3: you can buy into them and start to practice them, 613 00:28:00,030 --> 00:28:02,550 Speaker 3: they give you something to do. And all of us 614 00:28:02,590 --> 00:28:05,850 Speaker 3: know that hope requires action and agency. It requires this 615 00:28:05,910 --> 00:28:07,790 Speaker 3: ability to believe that you can get there from here 616 00:28:08,150 --> 00:28:10,100 Speaker 3: and that there's something you can do to do that thing. 617 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 3: And so you have agency in the process. You're not 618 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 3: a victim of it anymore. 619 00:28:14,940 --> 00:28:18,060 Speaker 5: Connect then the thoughts and the feelings that then flow 620 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:18,350 Speaker 5: with it. 621 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying? 622 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,090 Speaker 5: Because there's a lot of heaviness or people carry a 623 00:28:22,109 --> 00:28:25,270 Speaker 5: lot of emotional weight with them. but it's so freeing 624 00:28:25,310 --> 00:28:29,090 Speaker 5: whenever you can get this response piece going in play. 625 00:28:29,670 --> 00:28:29,830 Speaker 4: Right. 626 00:28:30,450 --> 00:28:30,830 Speaker 5: That's right. 627 00:28:30,850 --> 00:28:34,450 Speaker 3: So thoughts and feelings, again, obey neuroplasticity. So the more 628 00:28:34,490 --> 00:28:37,750 Speaker 3: you train your brain to reject negative thinking and replace 629 00:28:37,770 --> 00:28:40,290 Speaker 3: it with God's truth or something, at least it is true. 630 00:28:40,830 --> 00:28:43,230 Speaker 3: Then the more your brain will automatically serve up more 631 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,700 Speaker 3: reliable things to you. Like your default mode network, the 632 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,380 Speaker 3: part of your brain that is active when you're not 633 00:28:47,460 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 3: actively thinking about anything, an untrained default mode network is 634 00:28:51,100 --> 00:28:53,420 Speaker 3: the me show. It's, all the bad stuff that happened 635 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 3: to me in the past, all the ways I got hosed, 636 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 3: all the ways people mistreat me and all the ways 637 00:28:56,980 --> 00:28:58,270 Speaker 3: in the future, it's going to be the same as 638 00:28:58,310 --> 00:29:00,210 Speaker 3: it always has been. That's what your default mode does. 639 00:29:00,830 --> 00:29:03,630 Speaker 3: But if you train your default mode and other networks 640 00:29:03,690 --> 00:29:06,210 Speaker 3: begin to sort of influence it, and all of a 641 00:29:06,250 --> 00:29:10,390 Speaker 3: sudden you're hearing more positive, more accurate baseline thinking and feeling. 642 00:29:10,450 --> 00:29:12,530 Speaker 3: It's more influenced by things that are true instead of 643 00:29:12,550 --> 00:29:14,850 Speaker 3: things you're just ruminating on or worrying about. And so 644 00:29:14,930 --> 00:29:17,790 Speaker 3: your brain can change even the way it serves up 645 00:29:17,850 --> 00:29:19,490 Speaker 3: those baseline thoughts and feelings. 646 00:29:20,270 --> 00:29:23,510 Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about the pain that you've gone through, 647 00:29:23,950 --> 00:29:26,650 Speaker 2: you and your wife Lisa, and just the challenge, the 648 00:29:26,670 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 2: loss of your son Mitch. And I just can imagine 649 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,620 Speaker 2: that there are still days when those thoughts come back, 650 00:29:33,380 --> 00:29:35,890 Speaker 2: when they begin to flood your mind, when you miss them, 651 00:29:36,670 --> 00:29:39,910 Speaker 2: when you see something, hear a song, you smell something, 652 00:29:40,370 --> 00:29:43,130 Speaker 2: you remember something. And we're just like, it's, it's a 653 00:29:43,470 --> 00:29:46,150 Speaker 2: tougher day. Nobody has a great day every day, but 654 00:29:46,170 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 2: it's that mindset of when those days come, I'm just 655 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,660 Speaker 2: interested personally, where do you take your thoughts and how 656 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 2: do you begin to take them captive to really begin 657 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,550 Speaker 2: to recognize, you know what, Yes, I can remember him. 658 00:29:59,590 --> 00:30:01,730 Speaker 2: And yes, I can honor him. And yes, I can 659 00:30:01,790 --> 00:30:04,390 Speaker 2: live for him. And yes, I can still love him. Yes, 660 00:30:04,490 --> 00:30:06,990 Speaker 2: I can grieve him. All of these things, but still 661 00:30:07,050 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 2: hold on to truth. 662 00:30:08,860 --> 00:30:09,430 Speaker 1: Take us into that. 663 00:30:09,780 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 3: So there's a two things can be true at once 664 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 3: thing that you learn after grief and after any kind 665 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,940 Speaker 3: of major trauma, I think. Because as we talked about before, 666 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 3: if the cameras that they're looking at us through, if 667 00:30:21,180 --> 00:30:23,020 Speaker 3: they zoom in really tight on your face, that's all 668 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,100 Speaker 3: you can see. But it's not all that's out there. 669 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 3: Like there's still a lot of stuff in this room 670 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,050 Speaker 3: besides what the camera might show us. And grief has 671 00:30:30,090 --> 00:30:33,450 Speaker 3: this way of taking you into that story. And even 672 00:30:33,450 --> 00:30:36,210 Speaker 3: 13 years after it happens, that'll happen to me sometimes. 673 00:30:36,250 --> 00:30:39,110 Speaker 3: I'll get really down a rabbit trail of thought. I 674 00:30:39,150 --> 00:30:41,690 Speaker 3: won't be paying attention. And before long, I'm really sad 675 00:30:41,710 --> 00:30:44,420 Speaker 3: and I'm weeping again. I'm really angry about it. And 676 00:30:44,460 --> 00:30:47,740 Speaker 3: then I'll remember like, okay, it is true. It'll always 677 00:30:47,780 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 3: be true that my son's gone. But my life is 678 00:30:50,780 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 3: showing day by day that God's promises are true. And 679 00:30:53,100 --> 00:30:55,340 Speaker 3: I can tell you 13 years later, Every single thing 680 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,220 Speaker 3: that God says he will do for you in response 681 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 3: to loss, he keeps his word. Even the hard ones, 682 00:30:59,940 --> 00:31:03,630 Speaker 3: like the first day after my son died, somebody came 683 00:31:03,670 --> 00:31:05,430 Speaker 3: over to my house and they said, you know, God's 684 00:31:05,450 --> 00:31:07,370 Speaker 3: going to work this for good. He quoted Romans 8, 685 00:31:07,340 --> 00:31:08,950 Speaker 3: 28 to me. I wanted to hit him. Like, that's 686 00:31:08,990 --> 00:31:10,350 Speaker 3: not a good thing to say to somebody the day 687 00:31:10,370 --> 00:31:13,150 Speaker 3: after their son dies. It's not. But 13 years later, 688 00:31:13,190 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 3: I can tell you that the scripture actually says not 689 00:31:16,380 --> 00:31:18,620 Speaker 3: that it will be good, but that God will work 690 00:31:18,820 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 3: things together for the good of those that love him 691 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,670 Speaker 3: and are called according to purpose to conform them Christ. 692 00:31:24,970 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 3: So what he does is he takes this hard thing, 693 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 3: and if you're willing, he makes you more like Christ 694 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 3: through it, which is always good for you and always 695 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 3: allows you to see things in a different perspective and 696 00:31:35,860 --> 00:31:37,980 Speaker 3: always reminds you that there's going to come a day 697 00:31:38,020 --> 00:31:41,810 Speaker 3: when that renewal and resurrection and reunion is going to occur. 698 00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:45,170 Speaker 3: And so now when the hard days hit, I take 699 00:31:45,210 --> 00:31:47,550 Speaker 3: a beat, I take a minute, and I sit with it, 700 00:31:47,610 --> 00:31:49,870 Speaker 3: and I remember the things that hurt, and then I 701 00:31:49,910 --> 00:31:52,490 Speaker 3: remember the ways that his life made my life better 702 00:31:52,530 --> 00:31:54,850 Speaker 3: and continues to do so. And then I'll get on 703 00:31:55,010 --> 00:31:58,530 Speaker 3: Instagram and somebody will say, I'm so grateful for your son, Mitch, 704 00:31:58,570 --> 00:32:02,150 Speaker 3: that because of what you processed, now you're sharing things 705 00:32:02,170 --> 00:32:03,590 Speaker 3: that are helping me in my life. And I'm so 706 00:32:03,610 --> 00:32:06,410 Speaker 3: thankful for him. And that keeps him alive. And so, again, 707 00:32:06,450 --> 00:32:08,850 Speaker 3: now there's legacy on top of that loss and not 708 00:32:08,890 --> 00:32:12,990 Speaker 3: just meaningless and purposelessness. And so I try to take 709 00:32:13,050 --> 00:32:15,210 Speaker 3: it and find a way to zoom that camera back 710 00:32:15,330 --> 00:32:18,010 Speaker 3: out away from the thing that's the only thing that 711 00:32:18,050 --> 00:32:20,450 Speaker 3: feels true in that moment. And I try to remember 712 00:32:20,490 --> 00:32:22,510 Speaker 3: that more than one thing are true. More than one 713 00:32:22,530 --> 00:32:26,310 Speaker 3: thing is always true. And so even after 13 years, yes, 714 00:32:26,350 --> 00:32:29,570 Speaker 3: I have bad moments. And it's not occasionally. It's sort 715 00:32:29,610 --> 00:32:33,190 Speaker 3: of always. It's something that's always there. But you can 716 00:32:33,490 --> 00:32:36,050 Speaker 3: always process it in the context of all the other 717 00:32:36,090 --> 00:32:37,969 Speaker 3: things that are still true. It's really hard to do 718 00:32:38,020 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 3: at first. It gets easier over time. If you let 719 00:32:40,340 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 3: God do it, he will. 720 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,900 Speaker 2: I think in James 1 that we can consider a 721 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,150 Speaker 2: pure joy not because of the trial. but because of 722 00:32:48,270 --> 00:32:50,290 Speaker 2: what the trial can produce in and through us if 723 00:32:50,350 --> 00:32:53,070 Speaker 2: we allow God to let it. Romans 5, 3-5, I 724 00:32:53,110 --> 00:32:54,930 Speaker 2: know it's one of your favorite passages of Scripture, that 725 00:32:54,950 --> 00:32:58,290 Speaker 2: we can glory in our suffering because suffering produces perseverance, 726 00:32:58,350 --> 00:33:03,310 Speaker 2: perseverance produces character, character produces hope. That definition you've already 727 00:33:03,330 --> 00:33:05,410 Speaker 2: given about hope, it's one of my favorites. You simplified 728 00:33:05,450 --> 00:33:07,550 Speaker 2: it so well that hope is the realization that I 729 00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:09,190 Speaker 2: can get there from here. 730 00:33:09,310 --> 00:33:09,730 Speaker 4: That's right. 731 00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:12,510 Speaker 2: Just to the person out there, Lee, who's struggling today, 732 00:33:13,370 --> 00:33:16,550 Speaker 2: what's one final word of hope that maybe you would 733 00:33:16,590 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 2: want them to hear in a moment of need, whether 734 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,510 Speaker 2: it's about God's peace, about His power, about His people, 735 00:33:22,850 --> 00:33:25,530 Speaker 2: what's just something that they need to hear in this 736 00:33:25,650 --> 00:33:29,070 Speaker 2: moment to access the abundant life that He came to 737 00:33:29,150 --> 00:33:29,570 Speaker 2: offer us? 738 00:33:30,490 --> 00:33:32,550 Speaker 3: I want you to know that the story that culture 739 00:33:32,590 --> 00:33:35,250 Speaker 3: is telling you right now, that you're easily broken, that 740 00:33:35,290 --> 00:33:38,610 Speaker 3: you can't really be repaired, and that certain things can 741 00:33:38,670 --> 00:33:41,010 Speaker 3: happen in your life that can redefine who you are 742 00:33:41,050 --> 00:33:44,050 Speaker 3: and what you're capable of, isn't true. That your God 743 00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 3: designed you and created you on purpose to with a 744 00:33:49,220 --> 00:33:51,900 Speaker 3: brain that is designed to heal. It's not designed to 745 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 3: stay broken. And that scripture, Romans 5, 3 through 5, 746 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,370 Speaker 3: is true neurobiologically and neuroanatomically too because the part of 747 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,330 Speaker 3: your brain that's involved in willpower and emotional shifting from 748 00:34:02,450 --> 00:34:05,290 Speaker 3: one network to another, one state to another, is the 749 00:34:05,330 --> 00:34:07,530 Speaker 3: same part of your brain. And we know now that 750 00:34:07,570 --> 00:34:09,669 Speaker 3: when you go through hard things and you navigate them, 751 00:34:10,170 --> 00:34:13,469 Speaker 3: that cingulate gyrus of your brain engages Hebb's Law and 752 00:34:13,489 --> 00:34:15,980 Speaker 3: gets more robust and you get better at doing hard things. 753 00:34:16,020 --> 00:34:19,380 Speaker 3: That's where that scripture comes true. that suffering produces endurance, 754 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,620 Speaker 3: that grit and willpower come from your anterior cingulate. And 755 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 3: your anterior cingulate can't get stronger unless you've gone through 756 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:26,260 Speaker 3: something hard. 757 00:34:27,060 --> 00:34:27,779 Speaker 4: And so it's true. 758 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,259 Speaker 3: God is keeping his promise in the wiring of your 759 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,399 Speaker 3: brain that when you go through something hard, he will 760 00:34:32,540 --> 00:34:35,420 Speaker 3: use that to make you stronger. Because unfortunately, all of 761 00:34:35,460 --> 00:34:37,390 Speaker 3: us are going to go through more than one hard thing. 762 00:34:38,140 --> 00:34:39,890 Speaker 3: And that's why the back half of that verse is 763 00:34:39,910 --> 00:34:42,690 Speaker 3: so important, because it gives you endurance. Your brain gets 764 00:34:42,750 --> 00:34:45,580 Speaker 3: more durable. And then that begins to change your character 765 00:34:45,620 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 3: because you begin to look into the future and say, okay, 766 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 3: hard stuff's going to happen, and I'm the kind of 767 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,489 Speaker 3: person that can actually navigate something hard. And then that 768 00:34:53,530 --> 00:34:55,730 Speaker 3: begins to give you hope because you'll look into the 769 00:34:55,770 --> 00:34:57,969 Speaker 3: future and know that no matter what comes along, my 770 00:34:58,010 --> 00:35:00,969 Speaker 3: brain's going to support me in navigating through this, and 771 00:35:00,989 --> 00:35:02,690 Speaker 3: I'm going to get stronger as a result of it. 772 00:35:02,690 --> 00:35:04,410 Speaker 3: And it's going to feel awful, and it's going to 773 00:35:04,430 --> 00:35:05,969 Speaker 3: narrow my vision for a while, but it won't be 774 00:35:05,989 --> 00:35:08,270 Speaker 3: the first time I've been through something hard. My brain's 775 00:35:08,310 --> 00:35:10,070 Speaker 3: designed for it. My God is with me in it, 776 00:35:10,510 --> 00:35:11,230 Speaker 3: and I'm going to get through it. 777 00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:16,069 Speaker 5: Nay, in all these things, we are more than conquerors 778 00:35:16,130 --> 00:35:17,230 Speaker 5: through him that loved us. 779 00:35:17,790 --> 00:35:18,050 Speaker 4: Amen. 780 00:35:18,070 --> 00:35:19,129 Speaker 5: It's hard to go there, though. 781 00:35:19,530 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: It is. Man, that's hard work, real hard work. 782 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 5: But when you taste it and that stream of hope 783 00:35:26,260 --> 00:35:29,580 Speaker 5: begins to flow, it brings new life. 784 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:30,580 Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. 785 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:31,280 Speaker 3: Amen. 786 00:35:31,860 --> 00:35:33,220 Speaker 1: Yeah, it helps set you free. 787 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:34,060 Speaker 2: Yeah. 788 00:35:34,620 --> 00:35:37,489 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's for freedom that Christ has come to set 789 00:35:37,550 --> 00:35:37,969 Speaker 5: us free. 790 00:35:38,690 --> 00:35:41,310 Speaker 2: Lee Warner, friend, I cannot. Thank you enough for what 791 00:35:41,350 --> 00:35:43,690 Speaker 2: God's continuing to do into your life. I know, like 792 00:35:43,710 --> 00:35:45,549 Speaker 2: we said, things are continuing to blow up, and I 793 00:35:45,610 --> 00:35:48,650 Speaker 2: pray that they would continue to. Amen. Because I believe 794 00:35:48,690 --> 00:35:53,029 Speaker 2: that God is using you as an anointed, appointed ambassador 795 00:35:53,070 --> 00:35:55,010 Speaker 2: for such a time as this, my friend. 796 00:35:55,030 --> 00:35:55,859 Speaker 1: Where can our audience go? 797 00:35:55,900 --> 00:35:57,219 Speaker 2: I know you're not hard to find, but where can 798 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,140 Speaker 2: they go to find out more about you, maybe to 799 00:35:59,180 --> 00:36:01,380 Speaker 2: pick up a copy of this new book, The Life-Changing 800 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:02,420 Speaker 2: Art of Self-Brain Surgery? 801 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 3: Just drleewarren.com, drleewarren.com, everything, the podcast, the newsletter, the socials, 802 00:36:07,700 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 3: it's all there. 803 00:36:08,690 --> 00:36:10,830 Speaker 2: Lee, thank you for joining us. I can't wait to 804 00:36:10,850 --> 00:36:12,150 Speaker 2: take the stage with you in a few moments. 805 00:36:12,250 --> 00:36:12,610 Speaker 1: Thank you. 806 00:36:12,650 --> 00:36:13,650 Speaker 4: Thank you so much. 807 00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 2: To our built-in audience, as always, thank you so much 808 00:36:16,110 --> 00:36:18,060 Speaker 2: for being a part of today's episode. What a gift 809 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,540 Speaker 2: it is to learn from such bright minds, to remind 810 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 2: us that we can access the peace, the power, and 811 00:36:23,300 --> 00:36:29,220 Speaker 2: the mind of Christ every single day. Put on these things. Love, hope, compassion, peace, joy, 812 00:36:29,620 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 2: and I promise good things. They might not feel like it, 813 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,820 Speaker 2: but they will be on the road ahead. 814 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,430 Speaker 1: As always, thanks for joining us. We love being a 815 00:36:37,450 --> 00:36:37,930 Speaker 1: part of your life.