WEBVTT - A Compelling Case for Hell 

0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.480
<v Speaker 1>On today's episode of Timeless Wisdom.

0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:11.960
<v Speaker 2>Can a sophisticated, modern, contemporary, intellectual, rational, moral person believe

0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:13.040
<v Speaker 2>in hell?

0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:17.840
<v Speaker 1>That's coming up on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Welcome

0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:22.160
<v Speaker 1>to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Here thousands of hours

0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:25.520
<v Speaker 1>of Dennis's lectures courses in classic radio programs had to

0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:41.879
<v Speaker 1>purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles. Go to Dennisprager dot com.

0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:46.920
<v Speaker 2>To be or not to be? That is the question?

0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Why was God?

0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.240
<v Speaker 3>Isn't God supposed to be good this us?

0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.320
<v Speaker 4>Does God want us to suffer ten years?

0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:56.520
<v Speaker 2>You're not Dennis yet?

0:00:57.400 --> 0:00:57.440
<v Speaker 5>What?

0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:02.720
<v Speaker 2>Who are you?

0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:04.960
<v Speaker 1>Bruce?

0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:12.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm God? Bingo yazi? Is that your final answer? Our services?

0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:15.119
<v Speaker 1>God? Binginginging dingding ding.

0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:17.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, it was nice to meet you God. Thank you

0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:25.959
<v Speaker 2>for the Grand Canyon and good luck with the apocalypse. Hi, everybody.

0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.560
<v Speaker 2>This is the Ultimate Issues Hour on the Dennis Prager Show.

0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Every week this hour is devoted to some great issue

0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:39.360
<v Speaker 2>of life, and the issue today is I wish I

0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:41.120
<v Speaker 2>had a drum roll? Here? Do you guys have a

0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:43.560
<v Speaker 2>drum roll? Give me a drum roll. The issue today

0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:57.200
<v Speaker 2>is very good, very very good. The issue today is hell.

0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:09.240
<v Speaker 2>H e double l and can a sophisticated, modern, contemporary, intellectual, rational,

0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:17.320
<v Speaker 2>moral person believe in hell? Well, I will give you

0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.560
<v Speaker 2>my response, and I will be happy to take your

0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.960
<v Speaker 2>calls in response to my response to hold on a moment.

0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:28.000
<v Speaker 2>Not only do I believe that there is a hell,

0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:32.720
<v Speaker 2>which I will explain in a moment, I pray there

0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:39.200
<v Speaker 2>is one, and that I know will offend some people.

0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:44.520
<v Speaker 2>And if you're offended by that, you let me know. See, folks,

0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.360
<v Speaker 2>this notion that a lot of people have, well, I

0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:50.320
<v Speaker 2>believe in a sort of heaven, but there is no

0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:55.000
<v Speaker 2>hell cracks me up. So what exactly is there? If

0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:59.079
<v Speaker 2>good people go to heaven, where do bad people go? Now?

0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:00.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to get into that issue of the

0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:05.240
<v Speaker 2>criteria that your religion or you or you personally have

0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:07.440
<v Speaker 2>or who gets to heaven and who gets to hell.

0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:11.440
<v Speaker 2>That's a separate issue. It's a theological difference. I never

0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:17.440
<v Speaker 2>debate theological differences their statements of faith, and it is pointless,

0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:20.120
<v Speaker 2>truly pointless, to debate faith, in my opinion. I never do.

0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.560
<v Speaker 2>I debate everything else in life, but I certainly debate reason.

0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:28.160
<v Speaker 2>Remember this, folks, Let me get to the bottom line,

0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:31.400
<v Speaker 2>and then work backwards. Those of you who say that

0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:33.960
<v Speaker 2>you hope there is no hell or there is no Hell,

0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:39.000
<v Speaker 2>are saying that you hope that the most vile human beings,

0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:44.440
<v Speaker 2>the cruelest, most sadistic human beings, do not in any

0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:49.200
<v Speaker 2>way get punished after they die. That's what you're saying.

0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why you would root for that. Those

0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:55.080
<v Speaker 2>of you who hope there is no such thing as

0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:58.800
<v Speaker 2>a hell, please call me and tell me why, And

0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.280
<v Speaker 2>now you can start one eight Praeger seven seven six.

0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:06.680
<v Speaker 2>But I'd like you to react to what I'm saying

0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:10.720
<v Speaker 2>and not offer a monologue of your own. Forgive me,

0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:13.920
<v Speaker 2>but that is I really want to narrow this to

0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:18.640
<v Speaker 2>the arguments that I am making. There is something a moral,

0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:22.760
<v Speaker 2>Isn't there about a universe wherein there is no punishment

0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:27.680
<v Speaker 2>for bad deeds? Do you really want the universe to

0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:29.760
<v Speaker 2>be like that? Those of you who hope there is

0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:34.880
<v Speaker 2>no hell, or who believe that belief in hell is primitive. Now, folks,

0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.880
<v Speaker 2>let me make something clear. I have no definition for hell.

0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:42.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't picture people burning. I don't even picture it

0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:46.200
<v Speaker 2>for eternity. I don't know how much time people spend there.

0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.880
<v Speaker 2>The word time makes no sense after death anyway, so

0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.520
<v Speaker 2>I have no desire to use it. So I'm not

0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:56.080
<v Speaker 2>talking about eternal punishment. I am not talking about burning.

0:04:56.520 --> 0:05:01.839
<v Speaker 2>I am talking about reward and punishm we have names

0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:06.360
<v Speaker 2>for them. They are symbolic names. Reward is called heaven,

0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:09.400
<v Speaker 2>Punishment is called hell. Those of you who hope that

0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.000
<v Speaker 2>there is no hell, or can't believe that a good,

0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:15.200
<v Speaker 2>loving God would have one, are saying that a good,

0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:21.839
<v Speaker 2>loving God doesn't punish those who torture children. Do you

0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:26.360
<v Speaker 2>really believe that that's a loving God? I don't. If

0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:30.839
<v Speaker 2>God is loving, there is punishment after death. I don't

0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.520
<v Speaker 2>even understand the concept of God loves humanity but doesn't

0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:40.640
<v Speaker 2>punish those who rape children. I don't get it. I don't.

0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:44.120
<v Speaker 2>That's why you'll have to explain that to me. Why

0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:50.480
<v Speaker 2>it is that you would even think that way. Likewise, heaven,

0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.000
<v Speaker 2>of course there is reward, and by the way, there

0:05:53.080 --> 0:06:01.039
<v Speaker 2>are These are certainly basic to all faiths. Every faith

0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:07.159
<v Speaker 2>I know, east or West believes that we earn some

0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:14.200
<v Speaker 2>type of hereafter consequence. I know that there are Christians

0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:16.840
<v Speaker 2>who say, well, we don't earn it. It's gone through

0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.760
<v Speaker 2>God's grace and it's done through faith. It's still earned.

0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:22.919
<v Speaker 2>It's earned by your faith. Okay, there's something that you've

0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:27.039
<v Speaker 2>done to go to a certain place afterwards. So everybody

0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.359
<v Speaker 2>has it in some way, some through act, some through faith,

0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:34.919
<v Speaker 2>some through through acts and faith. Eastern religion believes that

0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:38.880
<v Speaker 2>you'll come back here and karma you will be. You

0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.000
<v Speaker 2>will suffer for what you did in the past life

0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.200
<v Speaker 2>in this life, but there's still the after life to

0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:47.599
<v Speaker 2>this life that you'll suffer because the reason it's universal

0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:51.440
<v Speaker 2>and Judaism. There are thirteen principles of the Jewish faith,

0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.640
<v Speaker 2>according to the greatest Jewish philosopher whoever lived my monodies.

0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:57.400
<v Speaker 2>One of them is that there is reward and punishment.

0:06:57.440 --> 0:06:59.920
<v Speaker 2>God rewards the good and punishes the bad of all

0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:05.440
<v Speaker 2>all faiths after this life. Every religion that has ever

0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:09.840
<v Speaker 2>existed believes that that the good, that that however they

0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.560
<v Speaker 2>define the good, are rewarded, and however they define the bad,

0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:18.760
<v Speaker 2>are are punished after this life. Why modern sophisticates think

0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:22.600
<v Speaker 2>that that is primitive or bad is my question. That's

0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:26.240
<v Speaker 2>my challenge to you. Why would you hope there isn't

0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:31.800
<v Speaker 2>anything like a hell? Do you really want people who

0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.679
<v Speaker 2>the people who slipped that that you know, the innocent

0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:41.880
<v Speaker 2>throats uh in and and and and were burned alive

0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:45.920
<v Speaker 2>Americans on nine to eleven, or rand the Nazi, the

0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:51.000
<v Speaker 2>death camps, or the Japanese death marches. You want them

0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:54.000
<v Speaker 2>to have the same exact fate as Mother Teresa? Is

0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:58.640
<v Speaker 2>that is that what you consider sophisticated? Wow, then then

0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:03.320
<v Speaker 2>count me as a non sophistic one eight Prager seven

0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:07.560
<v Speaker 2>seven six one eighth p r G e R seven

0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:14.240
<v Speaker 2>seven six. That's the uh that's the phone number here

0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.920
<v Speaker 2>thirteen minutes past the hour on the Dennis Prager Show.

0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:24.120
<v Speaker 2>And I I would be I would be very curious

0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.840
<v Speaker 2>to hear from anybody who has difficulty with the notion

0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.320
<v Speaker 2>of a hell, in other words, the notion that a good, kind,

0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:36.280
<v Speaker 2>just God punishes people after this life. If I didn't

0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.680
<v Speaker 2>believe that God did that, I would not believe in him.

0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:44.400
<v Speaker 2>I would not consider him kind or just. I I

0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.360
<v Speaker 2>am as dependent upon the belief in a hell as

0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.720
<v Speaker 2>I am on a heaven. For my for my sanity,

0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:57.920
<v Speaker 2>for my for my love and regard for God. If

0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:02.959
<v Speaker 2>all he does is is give the same faith to everybody,

0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:09.199
<v Speaker 2>no matter how we acted on this planet. Wow, let

0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.520
<v Speaker 2>me take your calls, folks, Let's begin with Jeff in

0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:15.160
<v Speaker 2>Canoga Park, California. Thanks for calling, Jeff. This is Dennis Prager,

0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:16.200
<v Speaker 2>the Ultimate Issues Hour.

0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:18.120
<v Speaker 5>Yes, I want to bring up this idea.

0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.559
<v Speaker 6>There's been people that have that I've hated, or people

0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.440
<v Speaker 6>that have I've disliked or wanted to hurt because they

0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.440
<v Speaker 6>don't get revenge or whatever. But I've never come across

0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.040
<v Speaker 6>anybody that I'd want to see suffer somewhere forever. Now,

0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:35.200
<v Speaker 6>how can I be more compassionate than God? In other words,

0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.200
<v Speaker 6>I wouldn't want to see someone tortured forever. I understand

0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:39.199
<v Speaker 6>maybe free well.

0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:45.199
<v Speaker 2>I deliberately dropped the forever from consideration. I dropped it.

0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:47.760
<v Speaker 2>I said, I have no time frame here. I just

0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:51.199
<v Speaker 2>want to know. Do you believe that that a that

0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:56.960
<v Speaker 2>a a a Nazi torturer should be punished after death? Sure?

0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:58.760
<v Speaker 6>That would be you know, that would be fine. I

0:09:58.800 --> 0:09:59.439
<v Speaker 6>understand that.

0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.280
<v Speaker 2>But most so, the only objection you have as to

0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:03.640
<v Speaker 2>how long? Yeah?

0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:05.280
<v Speaker 6>Because all right, right, right, right, right.

0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:07.440
<v Speaker 2>Right, so that we have no argument. I'm with you.

0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm with you, Jeff. I have no position on the

0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:15.720
<v Speaker 2>eternity question. I have no idea where why one would

0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:19.200
<v Speaker 2>affirm that necessarily, I don't. I have no idea. God

0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.840
<v Speaker 2>is just. He'll figure out how long a person's punished.

0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:25.920
<v Speaker 2>But most people today, Jeff who, or at least most

0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:29.920
<v Speaker 2>secular people today, find the idea of hell, even for

0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:36.160
<v Speaker 2>twenty minutes repulsive. Okay, all right, okay, good, all right,

0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:39.040
<v Speaker 2>thank you. That's all I'm That's what I'm arguing. I'm

0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:42.599
<v Speaker 2>arguing that it is not only not sophisticated, it is unjust,

0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:50.560
<v Speaker 2>and more, it is moral chaos to wish that there

0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:53.080
<v Speaker 2>is no such thing as heaven and Hell. And I

0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.440
<v Speaker 2>include Hell just as much as heaven. I have no position.

0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:00.000
<v Speaker 2>I have no position on the eternity issue because it's

0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:03.720
<v Speaker 2>it's not what I'm talking about. The people who object

0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.199
<v Speaker 2>their being heaven and Hell do so on the grounds

0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:10.000
<v Speaker 2>of sophistication, reason, and morality. How could a good God

0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.120
<v Speaker 2>send anybody to Hell? I have the opposite, How could

0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:16.200
<v Speaker 2>a good God not back in a moment, I'm Dennis Prager.

0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:20.040
<v Speaker 1>This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:30.400
<v Speaker 1>Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.719
<v Speaker 2>Okay, my friends, is the Ultimate Issues hour twenty one

0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:36.880
<v Speaker 2>minutes past the hour on the Ultimate Issues hour, So

0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:42.360
<v Speaker 2>it means it's twenty one minutes after the Ultimate Okay,

0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:49.240
<v Speaker 2>it's pure silliness, pure undiluted Christine Silliness on this Ultimate

0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:54.240
<v Speaker 2>Issue's hour. I have raised the presumably somewhat provocative issue,

0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.400
<v Speaker 2>and it's provocative only in the sense that I want

0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:01.040
<v Speaker 2>to provoke you to think. If you have dismissed the

0:12:01.080 --> 0:12:04.160
<v Speaker 2>notion of heaven and hell as primitive and unworthy of

0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:07.560
<v Speaker 2>a sophisticated god or unworthy of a sophisticated mind, I

0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:10.839
<v Speaker 2>don't know why you would do that. The notion that

0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.080
<v Speaker 2>no matter how you act in this world, there is

0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:20.240
<v Speaker 2>no reward or punishment for you is hardly a desirable notion.

0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Why would anybody want to believe that? I mean, maybe

0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:25.680
<v Speaker 2>you have to believe that because you just don't believe

0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:27.800
<v Speaker 2>there's any God, and therefore there can't be any reward

0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:32.480
<v Speaker 2>and punishment after life. So I look, and you're unhappy

0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:37.040
<v Speaker 2>about it. I respect that tremendously. Look, your intellect tells

0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:39.160
<v Speaker 2>you you just can't believe in a god, and therefore

0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:43.319
<v Speaker 2>Hitler and Mother Teresa have the same fates and so

0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.640
<v Speaker 2>but it's unfair, it's tragic, and there's nothing you can

0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.520
<v Speaker 2>do about it. Okay, fine, But for those of you

0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:53.720
<v Speaker 2>who believe that there is a God and believe that

0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:56.679
<v Speaker 2>somehow it's unworthy of God to have a heaven and

0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:59.600
<v Speaker 2>a hell, I don't get that it's unworthy of a

0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:04.480
<v Speaker 2>god not to have one. I mean I I and

0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:06.679
<v Speaker 2>I want there to be. I want the good punished.

0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.200
<v Speaker 2>I want the good they're rewarded. I want the bad punished.

0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:17.320
<v Speaker 2>I do it keeps me sane when I see the

0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:23.280
<v Speaker 2>cruelty of this world. That bothers me tremendously. Doesn't bother you. Alrighty,

0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.559
<v Speaker 2>let's go to Long Beach, California. Bill, Hi, Bill, thanks

0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:29.880
<v Speaker 2>for calling. Dennis Prager here, Hey.

0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.040
<v Speaker 7>Dennis, thanks for taking my call.

0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.480
<v Speaker 2>I love your show great. Thank you me too.

0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.400
<v Speaker 7>I have had issues with the I like to termy

0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.640
<v Speaker 7>brob as it being a primitive notion because I don't

0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:42.160
<v Speaker 7>believe there would be a heaven or hell. And I

0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:46.600
<v Speaker 7>think the God that's portrayed has has kind of a

0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.240
<v Speaker 7>shady character, Like when you look at the First Book

0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.040
<v Speaker 7>of Samuel, God command Israelites to kill women and babies

0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:54.600
<v Speaker 7>for the sake of poli war. So I think this

0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:59.000
<v Speaker 7>is based in Christianity. And Judaism and Islam as far

0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:00.680
<v Speaker 7>as a god.

0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.280
<v Speaker 5>That is, you know, can justify killing innocent.

0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.040
<v Speaker 7>People and commanding a followers to do so. And so

0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.120
<v Speaker 7>I think it's based on how morality, you know, changes

0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:08.760
<v Speaker 7>and flexes.

0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:12.800
<v Speaker 2>Well. Well, even putting that aside, let's say there was

0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.520
<v Speaker 2>no Let's say God and Samuel said, please take all

0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.839
<v Speaker 2>the enemies babies and raise them as wonderful people. I

0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.200
<v Speaker 2>don't think it would affect any of your beliefs whatsoever.

0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.960
<v Speaker 2>So let's leave Samuel out. Do you believe that the

0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.200
<v Speaker 2>Hitler and mother Teresa have the same fates?

0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:29.200
<v Speaker 6>You know what?

0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:29.920
<v Speaker 5>I'm with you.

0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:32.880
<v Speaker 7>I believe that he shouldn't have the same fate. If

0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:34.760
<v Speaker 7>I had night brothers, I don't think they shouldn't have.

0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:37.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so you hope for wait wait, wait, all right,

0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:39.680
<v Speaker 2>so one minute. So you also hope that there was

0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.280
<v Speaker 2>a heaven and a hell like I do.

0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:43.880
<v Speaker 7>That's the thing I hope to But I guess I'm

0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:45.320
<v Speaker 7>kind of alone in it because I know a lot

0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.560
<v Speaker 7>of the hardline fundament Most Christians believe that Hitler was

0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.040
<v Speaker 7>a Christian, so he's saved, regardless of acts.

0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.440
<v Speaker 2>I have never met a Christian who thought that Hitler

0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.920
<v Speaker 2>was saved. I mean, I'm sure there are, but I

0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.600
<v Speaker 2>have never met one. But even putting I don't want

0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:03.720
<v Speaker 2>to get it all sidetracked here. You and I both

0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:07.160
<v Speaker 2>believe it would be an infinitely better universe if there

0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.520
<v Speaker 2>were some form of heaven in some form of health.

0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.120
<v Speaker 7>Correct, yes, but like the previous color, I believe hell

0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.320
<v Speaker 7>should be more of like, more like karmak, like like

0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:16.440
<v Speaker 7>the Hindus in the Buddhis where it's a learning process

0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.600
<v Speaker 7>and you go through your punishment and then you know,

0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:20.800
<v Speaker 7>like you said, time is a non issue in the afterlife,

0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:21.600
<v Speaker 7>so you go through.

0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.720
<v Speaker 2>All right, fine, but you want you want the bad

0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:29.040
<v Speaker 2>to to have consequences for their actions, right, all right?

0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.080
<v Speaker 2>So now, so what's the So where do we differ

0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:32.160
<v Speaker 2>if we differ at all?

0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:34.800
<v Speaker 7>Well, I listen to your program, and I know you

0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.200
<v Speaker 7>have a lot of respect and for your Jewish heritage.

0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 7>I'm just wondering how much of that is when you

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.200
<v Speaker 7>actually read the Old Testament and you see that, you know,

0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:42.920
<v Speaker 7>God justifying the killing of innocent hose.

0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's all right. Yes, I do deal with that,

0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.240
<v Speaker 2>and I admit that it it's problematic, but I do

0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:50.840
<v Speaker 2>deal with it and I and in the final analysis,

0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.520
<v Speaker 2>I would have to drop my faith. If God made

0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:59.760
<v Speaker 2>a commandment you will always kill babies and children of enemies.

0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:02.600
<v Speaker 2>But no, there was a one time order in a

0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:06.520
<v Speaker 2>one time situation, and only God knows why. And I

0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:08.800
<v Speaker 2>have to say in the final analysis that if God

0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.760
<v Speaker 2>said it, for whatever reason, God said it, and I

0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.840
<v Speaker 2>am not God. But since it has no ramification whatsoever

0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.720
<v Speaker 2>in my life or the life of any Jew proposed Samuel,

0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.520
<v Speaker 2>it's an academic question more than any other, so that's

0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:27.440
<v Speaker 2>how I deal with it. But in any event, we

0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.760
<v Speaker 2>agree on heaven and hell. We both hope that there

0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.480
<v Speaker 2>is one. And that is my argument here because if

0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:38.760
<v Speaker 2>you go to modern sophisticated language today at the university,

0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.800
<v Speaker 2>for example, and among the intellectual elite, to say that

0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:44.520
<v Speaker 2>you hope that there is a heaven and a hell

0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:49.320
<v Speaker 2>is really almost like flatulating at a cocktail party. You

0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:55.000
<v Speaker 2>just can't do that. It's just too disruptive of everybody's sensibilities.

0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:59.440
<v Speaker 2>And I don't I don't know exactly why, but that's

0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.200
<v Speaker 2>why I'm making this case to disrupt those sensibilities. One

0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.359
<v Speaker 2>eighth Prager seven seven six one eighth pr A G

0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:13.720
<v Speaker 2>er seven seven six, and let's go to Corona, California

0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:15.920
<v Speaker 2>and Ken, Hello, Ken, Dennis.

0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.479
<v Speaker 4>Prager, Hi, Hi Dennis. How are you doing today?

0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:20.160
<v Speaker 2>Good? I'm wealth today? Thank you.

0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:20.920
<v Speaker 8>Yeah.

0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.359
<v Speaker 4>I do believe that there's punishment for evil. If you

0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.280
<v Speaker 4>look at Adam and Eaves time for sinning against God

0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.760
<v Speaker 4>and mankind. They were given to death penalty, and Adam

0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:33.280
<v Speaker 4>was told from the dust, you were returned from the dust,

0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:33.920
<v Speaker 4>you were taken.

0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, well they they they were not given the death

0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.560
<v Speaker 2>penalty except that, well they were I guess yes, because

0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:44.600
<v Speaker 2>they were immortal presumably, and now they would eventually die,

0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.840
<v Speaker 2>but they didn't die at the moment, yes, go on,

0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:49.520
<v Speaker 2>so so what's the point.

0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:51.800
<v Speaker 4>No, but if they did, if they didn't sin, they

0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:53.720
<v Speaker 4>would have been with us today and all of us

0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.120
<v Speaker 4>would have been living in perfect Yeah.

0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:01.080
<v Speaker 2>I have never found that to be compelling, because inevitably

0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.880
<v Speaker 2>they if they didn't sin, then their children would have sinned.

0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:08.280
<v Speaker 2>They weren't They weren't made. They weren't made not to sin.

0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.840
<v Speaker 2>They were made God made. No, they weren't. They were God.

0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.399
<v Speaker 2>How could they wait a minute? How could you be

0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:18.639
<v Speaker 2>made not to They weren't perfect. If they were perfect,

0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:20.399
<v Speaker 2>they went wait, wait, wait, wait, if they were perfect,

0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:21.280
<v Speaker 2>they wouldn't have sinned.

0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:25.120
<v Speaker 4>Well, that's where we have free will. God didn't want robots.

0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.800
<v Speaker 2>You're right, you're right. Then they weren't perfect because free

0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.720
<v Speaker 2>will means that you will do make an imperfect choice.

0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:32.480
<v Speaker 2>It's inevitable.

0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:37.120
<v Speaker 4>Well I don't believe exactly that. But it also if

0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:40.240
<v Speaker 4>you think about what Adam did to mankind, nobody was

0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:44.760
<v Speaker 4>more reprehensible than him, because if if he he caused

0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:48.200
<v Speaker 4>the death of all humans today, because all are dying.

0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:52.160
<v Speaker 2>Right, all right, well he brought he brought death into

0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:54.879
<v Speaker 2>the world, as the story would go, Yes, that's right, okay,

0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:56.880
<v Speaker 2>so so but but but but his.

0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:01.879
<v Speaker 4>Sin, yes, was to never be able to live again.

0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:07.879
<v Speaker 2>And wait, what what does that have to do with

0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:08.520
<v Speaker 2>heaven and hell?

0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.560
<v Speaker 4>Well, you think about that's the only punishment he deserved

0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:14.600
<v Speaker 4>for what he had done. He would never have a

0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:16.359
<v Speaker 4>chance to have his life back again.

0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all right, but I don't know what that has

0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:20.119
<v Speaker 2>to do with heaven and hell. Anyway, I don't think

0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:25.840
<v Speaker 2>he went to hell. You in my book, and everybody

0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:27.480
<v Speaker 2>has a different book on this. You have to do

0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:32.360
<v Speaker 2>something rather evil. Eating from the prohibited tree of Knowledge

0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.120
<v Speaker 2>was not evil. It was a sin. We'll be back

0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:37.280
<v Speaker 2>in a moment. You're listening to the Denis Prager Show

0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.639
<v Speaker 2>thirty four minutes past the hour on the Ultimate Issues

0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.560
<v Speaker 2>hour on the Dennis Prager Show. Every week at this

0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.399
<v Speaker 2>time I devote an hour to some great issue of life.

0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.840
<v Speaker 2>There are two and only two issues on this one.

0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.159
<v Speaker 2>It's easy people get sidetracked. I totally understand it. But

0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:59.560
<v Speaker 2>I won't. I won't allow that to happen because then

0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:03.399
<v Speaker 2>we will lose the point of the hour. I'm talking

0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:09.160
<v Speaker 2>about heaven and hell, and I have two and only

0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:15.720
<v Speaker 2>two items for your consideration. One is it okay to

0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:17.919
<v Speaker 2>hope that there is a heaven and a hell? Or

0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:21.720
<v Speaker 2>is it only okay to hope that there is a heaven? Two?

0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:26.479
<v Speaker 2>Are there a heaven in hell? That's it. I'm not

0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:28.880
<v Speaker 2>talking about how long. I know for some Hell by

0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.320
<v Speaker 2>definition is eternal. That is not my agenda here. My

0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:37.800
<v Speaker 2>agenda is not theology. My agenda is morality and indeed justice.

0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:42.280
<v Speaker 2>What is it that one hopes for? Because why am

0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:46.320
<v Speaker 2>I raising this? Because it is in many circles, as

0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:50.479
<v Speaker 2>they say today, in intellectual circles, it is unshekh at

0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:52.400
<v Speaker 2>the very least to hope that there is a hell,

0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:57.120
<v Speaker 2>let alone to believe in it. What's wrong with you? Oh, oh,

0:20:57.160 --> 0:20:59.719
<v Speaker 2>what's wrong with you? Well? I want to know I

0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:03.680
<v Speaker 2>have absent. What's wrong with a person who doesn't want

0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:08.160
<v Speaker 2>the truly vicious and sadistic and cruel to be punished

0:21:09.320 --> 0:21:12.160
<v Speaker 2>and the truly good to be rewarded? I don't what's

0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:15.600
<v Speaker 2>wrong with them? That's to me, that's the question. All right,

0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:19.040
<v Speaker 2>let's go to some more of your calls, and in Champlin, Minnesota,

0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.080
<v Speaker 2>it's Steve. Steve, thank you for calling this a Dennis Praeger.

0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:24.400
<v Speaker 5>Hi, Hi Dennis, thanks for taking my call.

0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:25.680
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:30.600
<v Speaker 5>I am just wondering about your rationale so far as

0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:33.840
<v Speaker 5>I've heard it in the show, revolving a lot around

0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:38.560
<v Speaker 5>what you want or hope that hell exists, that heaven exists.

0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:42.760
<v Speaker 5>And I'm wondering how you would respond to, you know,

0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:46.200
<v Speaker 5>sometime in the future finding out that yes there is

0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:48.360
<v Speaker 5>a Hell, yes there's a heaven, but they don't function

0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:50.520
<v Speaker 5>quite like you want them to.

0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Ask for example, do you have an example in mine

0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:59.439
<v Speaker 2>or is it just a generic question? Well, perhaps you

0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:01.520
<v Speaker 2>mean they think and let's say the opposite. You mean

0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:04.200
<v Speaker 2>bad people go to heaven and good people go to hell.

0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:09.800
<v Speaker 5>No, certainly not the people in hell. We seem to

0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:13.040
<v Speaker 5>have a spectrum of how bad the thing is that

0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:17.000
<v Speaker 5>they've done. Maybe somebody just missed the line and they're

0:22:17.000 --> 0:22:18.760
<v Speaker 5>in hell, but the thing they did isn't that bad

0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:20.240
<v Speaker 5>versus some.

0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Of the Well, I believe that God, well all right,

0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:25.000
<v Speaker 2>I believe that God is perfectly just and that hour

0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:29.679
<v Speaker 2>and that our fate is determined by God's perfect justice.

0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:32.720
<v Speaker 2>That's all so that I don't believe that the man

0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:37.439
<v Speaker 2>who who tortures children and the man who takes a

0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:40.399
<v Speaker 2>stapler from his office have the same same punishment.

0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:45.040
<v Speaker 5>So you are trusting in a sense, then God's justice

0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:45.880
<v Speaker 5>to resolve.

0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:53.040
<v Speaker 2>You could drop the words in a sense. Okay, great,

0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:56.920
<v Speaker 2>all right, okay, good. I love that. I love clearing

0:22:56.960 --> 0:22:58.840
<v Speaker 2>things up. Let me try to do that for Ben

0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:02.240
<v Speaker 2>in Philadelphia, Ben Dennis Brager, all right.

0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:07.360
<v Speaker 3>Dennis, Yes, I think that if God is good, then

0:23:07.400 --> 0:23:11.520
<v Speaker 3>there would be no help because God was everyone to

0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:12.399
<v Speaker 3>just be happy.

0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:17.400
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you this. Well, well, Ben, that would.

0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:19.320
<v Speaker 3>Just be that would everyone everyone be good?

0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:22.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean? Okay, well, well, well, first of all, if

0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:25.719
<v Speaker 2>there if there is no hell, I won't be happy.

0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:29.600
<v Speaker 6>But I mean, but I'm saying.

0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:31.679
<v Speaker 3>In having like, whether if God could just make you.

0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:35.919
<v Speaker 2>Happy, why would you want Why would you think that

0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:39.560
<v Speaker 2>a good God would make would make a a mass

0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:43.040
<v Speaker 2>torture er happy? Why? Why is that? Why does that

0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:45.840
<v Speaker 2>mean God is good? Why God isn't good if he

0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:47.800
<v Speaker 2>doesn't treat the good and bad differently?

0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:51.639
<v Speaker 3>No, because because God will just want everybody to be happy.

0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:53.040
<v Speaker 3>That's what makes God so good.

0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:56.120
<v Speaker 2>No, that doesn't make him good. It makes him stupid,

0:23:57.400 --> 0:24:01.720
<v Speaker 2>It makes him vicious. A man, let me ask you something.

0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:04.880
<v Speaker 2>If somebody can't wait, wait, wait, wait, wait Ben, Ben,

0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:09.280
<v Speaker 2>hold on Ben, you're at You're eighteen? Are you at school?

0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:11.040
<v Speaker 8>Yes?

0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay. If there was a kid in your class who

0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:22.720
<v Speaker 2>went over and uh whenever he could beat up really severely,

0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:27.000
<v Speaker 2>or any kid he could find, and the school finally

0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:29.120
<v Speaker 2>caught him, would you want them to want to make

0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:31.400
<v Speaker 2>him happy? Or would you want them to have him

0:24:31.440 --> 0:24:35.160
<v Speaker 2>punished in some way? I'll wait to give you time

0:24:35.200 --> 0:24:38.600
<v Speaker 2>to give me that answer. One eight Praguer seven seven

0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:41.320
<v Speaker 2>six is the number on this ultimate issues on The

0:24:41.320 --> 0:24:42.320
<v Speaker 2>Dennis Prager Show.

0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:47.600
<v Speaker 1>This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this

0:24:53.119 --> 0:25:02.399
<v Speaker 1>now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.

0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:05.080
<v Speaker 2>All right, everybody, you're listening to the Dennis Prager Show,

0:25:08.920 --> 0:25:13.959
<v Speaker 2>and if you have been shaking, just think of the

0:25:13.960 --> 0:25:19.320
<v Speaker 2>topic here one eight Praguer seven seven six. This is

0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:28.600
<v Speaker 2>the Ultimate Issues Hour, and the subject is, appropriately in

0:25:28.640 --> 0:25:33.359
<v Speaker 2>some parts of this country right now, heaven and heaven

0:25:33.400 --> 0:25:38.280
<v Speaker 2>and Hell and the I'm making the argument that a

0:25:38.320 --> 0:25:42.600
<v Speaker 2>good person can certainly hope that there is such a

0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:47.000
<v Speaker 2>thing a good person can hope that there is such

0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:52.760
<v Speaker 2>a thing as heaven and Hell. And we welcome back

0:25:52.840 --> 0:25:55.280
<v Speaker 2>of the folks in the LA area where we just

0:25:55.400 --> 0:26:01.000
<v Speaker 2>had earthquake earthquake news, and we hope everybody as well.

0:26:01.840 --> 0:26:05.480
<v Speaker 2>I am in New York presently, so no shaking here.

0:26:05.520 --> 0:26:10.000
<v Speaker 2>But apparently there was one felt Sean was rocking and

0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:12.800
<v Speaker 2>socking back at the home studio. Seawan, are you are

0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:23.440
<v Speaker 2>you study right now? Okay? Fine? I have to say

0:26:23.920 --> 0:26:27.040
<v Speaker 2>there is no connection for those of you in the

0:26:27.040 --> 0:26:31.359
<v Speaker 2>Los Angeles area, there is no connection between my topic

0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:34.760
<v Speaker 2>and the fact that you just got shaken up quite

0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:43.960
<v Speaker 2>a bit. Apparently, Well here we're getting five point eight.

0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:47.160
<v Speaker 2>That's I can't believe it. That's exactly what I predicted

0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:52.480
<v Speaker 2>for three thousand miles away somehow listening to it like that. Yeah,

0:26:52.520 --> 0:26:55.399
<v Speaker 2>so I help everybody as well. And there was no

0:26:55.520 --> 0:26:59.240
<v Speaker 2>relationship between the topic I chose for this Ultimate Issues

0:26:59.320 --> 0:27:05.240
<v Speaker 2>Hour and this five point eight in na Chino Hills,

0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:09.719
<v Speaker 2>which was felt obviously at the headquarters of the show

0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:14.080
<v Speaker 2>in Glendale, California. I say, every section of the country

0:27:14.119 --> 0:27:16.600
<v Speaker 2>has its own perils, that's the way it works. The

0:27:16.640 --> 0:27:22.840
<v Speaker 2>tornadoes in the Midwest, the hurricanes in the East, the

0:27:22.960 --> 0:27:26.520
<v Speaker 2>earthquakes in the West. What do they get in what

0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:31.160
<v Speaker 2>do they get in Montana? You don't ever hear about

0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:35.199
<v Speaker 2>any natural calamity in Montana. Although it's so big and

0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:37.439
<v Speaker 2>so few people, it might happen and nobody would know.

0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:41.720
<v Speaker 2>So who knows anyway, I truly do. They'll hope everybody

0:27:41.760 --> 0:27:46.040
<v Speaker 2>as well, and we'll keep you abreast here locally in

0:27:46.080 --> 0:27:49.320
<v Speaker 2>any event, for those of you in the in the

0:27:49.440 --> 0:27:52.600
<v Speaker 2>LA in the LA area. And I'm getting a feedback

0:27:52.920 --> 0:27:58.119
<v Speaker 2>here as well when when there's any any new report.

0:27:58.640 --> 0:28:02.280
<v Speaker 2>But again I I plead guilt, I plead innocent, excuse me,

0:28:02.600 --> 0:28:05.479
<v Speaker 2>not guilty to any correlation between my topic and this

0:28:06.960 --> 0:28:09.639
<v Speaker 2>and this event. So the topic here on the ultimate

0:28:09.640 --> 0:28:13.919
<v Speaker 2>issues hour has been my belief that it's quite all

0:28:14.000 --> 0:28:15.600
<v Speaker 2>right to hope there's a heaven and a hell. And

0:28:15.680 --> 0:28:17.879
<v Speaker 2>you can't only hope there's a heaven. It makes no sense.

0:28:19.240 --> 0:28:21.800
<v Speaker 2>So what does it mean? Does everybody go to heaven?

0:28:21.840 --> 0:28:21.959
<v Speaker 5>Well?

0:28:21.960 --> 0:28:24.840
<v Speaker 2>If not, everybody goes to heaven, so then whatever it

0:28:24.880 --> 0:28:26.480
<v Speaker 2>is that they don't go to that would be a hell.

0:28:26.480 --> 0:28:28.439
<v Speaker 2>I'm not defining hell. I'm not telling you how long

0:28:28.520 --> 0:28:30.679
<v Speaker 2>it is. I don't care all I I'm happy to

0:28:30.760 --> 0:28:35.920
<v Speaker 2>use the words reward and punishment, but I don't outsophisticate

0:28:36.000 --> 0:28:38.880
<v Speaker 2>myself and drop the traditional term. It's fine with me

0:28:38.960 --> 0:28:45.320
<v Speaker 2>heaven and hell. Alrighty, let's go to Will in Frisco, Texas.

0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:46.600
<v Speaker 2>Will Dennis Praeger.

0:28:47.120 --> 0:28:51.040
<v Speaker 8>Hi, Hi, you know what, you're smart man. I'm sitting

0:28:51.080 --> 0:28:54.479
<v Speaker 8>here listening you talk, and instead of saying heaven in

0:28:54.520 --> 0:28:58.239
<v Speaker 8>hell trying to figure out the correct term for it,

0:28:58.320 --> 0:29:01.200
<v Speaker 8>you're fine with same punishment and I. At first, can

0:29:01.240 --> 0:29:02.280
<v Speaker 8>I just say I appreciate that.

0:29:03.080 --> 0:29:06.240
<v Speaker 2>Yes, you may say, yeah, thank you, sir.

0:29:07.640 --> 0:29:10.760
<v Speaker 8>Now, I don't believe that this should be the type

0:29:10.760 --> 0:29:15.800
<v Speaker 8>of hell that most people try to force down your throat, because, uh,

0:29:16.920 --> 0:29:20.280
<v Speaker 8>from from my research and and and and I've looked

0:29:20.280 --> 0:29:23.520
<v Speaker 8>at manuscripts and and other other things to come to

0:29:23.560 --> 0:29:26.880
<v Speaker 8>find out that the hell that most people try to

0:29:26.880 --> 0:29:29.640
<v Speaker 8>shove down your throat don't even exist. It's actually a

0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:32.440
<v Speaker 8>common grave. And I can't figure out, Well.

0:29:32.280 --> 0:29:34.680
<v Speaker 2>Why do you refer I'm sorry you're referring to what

0:29:34.680 --> 0:29:36.440
<v Speaker 2>what do you mean by the hell people are shoving

0:29:36.480 --> 0:29:37.160
<v Speaker 2>down your throat?

0:29:37.480 --> 0:29:39.440
<v Speaker 8>Like most people like like the way you.

0:29:39.440 --> 0:29:41.800
<v Speaker 2>Mean the one where people burn? You mean that one?

0:29:42.880 --> 0:29:45.160
<v Speaker 2>All right? What's all right? Let us say that some

0:29:45.360 --> 0:29:50.560
<v Speaker 2>terribly bad people do suffer burning. So so you find

0:29:50.600 --> 0:29:54.200
<v Speaker 2>do you find that morally objectionable? I'm trying to figure

0:29:54.240 --> 0:29:56.960
<v Speaker 2>out do you believe do you are you at peace

0:29:57.000 --> 0:29:57.720
<v Speaker 2>with punishment?

0:29:58.880 --> 0:30:03.600
<v Speaker 8>Well? I think I think one should be punished, including it. Okay,

0:30:03.840 --> 0:30:05.120
<v Speaker 8>as they mentioned.

0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:09.680
<v Speaker 2>Earlier, Well that's noel, You're well, we're getting into theology,

0:30:09.680 --> 0:30:11.880
<v Speaker 2>and I'm not getting into theology. I just want to

0:30:11.880 --> 0:30:16.480
<v Speaker 2>speak morality and justice. A lot of people today, especially

0:30:16.560 --> 0:30:20.240
<v Speaker 2>secularly educated people, find the notion of heaven and hell

0:30:20.440 --> 0:30:25.480
<v Speaker 2>morally objectionable and intellectually stupid. I don't think it's intellectually stupid,

0:30:25.520 --> 0:30:27.920
<v Speaker 2>and I don't think it's morally problematic I think it's

0:30:27.920 --> 0:30:30.960
<v Speaker 2>morally problematic if there's a God who doesn't punish bad people.

0:30:32.280 --> 0:30:35.160
<v Speaker 2>I tell you, Okay, that's all. That's it, and I

0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:37.960
<v Speaker 2>thank you for your call, I really do. Will you see,

0:30:38.000 --> 0:30:41.120
<v Speaker 2>here's the irony. I think that most people, actually, when

0:30:41.200 --> 0:30:47.320
<v Speaker 2>put this way in non theological terms, will agree that

0:30:47.320 --> 0:30:51.280
<v Speaker 2>that that our the moral equilibrium of the world, and

0:30:51.320 --> 0:30:56.600
<v Speaker 2>indeed the our own psychological equilibrium, are dependent in large

0:30:56.640 --> 0:30:59.400
<v Speaker 2>measure on the belief that there is reward and punishment

0:30:59.440 --> 0:31:02.120
<v Speaker 2>after this life. Folks, it doesn't happen in this life.

0:31:02.320 --> 0:31:06.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean, let's be honest. There are true people who

0:31:06.680 --> 0:31:09.440
<v Speaker 2>do awful, awful things who are not punished in this life,

0:31:09.440 --> 0:31:13.040
<v Speaker 2>and there are people who are utterly innocent who suffer

0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:16.720
<v Speaker 2>hell in this life. So there has to be some way.

0:31:17.440 --> 0:31:19.600
<v Speaker 2>If there is a good God, then he makes up

0:31:19.640 --> 0:31:23.160
<v Speaker 2>for this somehow, he compensates for that imbalance. To me,

0:31:23.280 --> 0:31:27.000
<v Speaker 2>this is just it's so basic and so elementary. I

0:31:27.000 --> 0:31:30.840
<v Speaker 2>don't know why it's contentious. That's the reason I'm raising

0:31:30.920 --> 0:31:35.160
<v Speaker 2>it though, because if you said this, you know you hope, oh,

0:31:35.200 --> 0:31:40.120
<v Speaker 2>your moral and emotional equilibrium depend upon there being some

0:31:40.360 --> 0:31:43.000
<v Speaker 2>form of heaven and hell. If you said this in

0:31:43.040 --> 0:31:47.800
<v Speaker 2>some graduate seminar in psychology, sociology, political science, and god

0:31:47.880 --> 0:31:50.680
<v Speaker 2>knows what you would be looked at as if you,

0:31:50.840 --> 0:31:54.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, advocated smoking cigarettes. Well, I don't know.

0:31:54.400 --> 0:31:57.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't know about that bad I We'll be back

0:31:57.560 --> 0:31:59.800
<v Speaker 2>in a moment. Final segment of this Ultimate Issues is

0:31:59.800 --> 0:32:01.760
<v Speaker 2>out are coming up on the Dennis Praguer Show.

0:32:02.120 --> 0:32:05.480
<v Speaker 1>This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.

0:32:11.960 --> 0:32:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.

0:32:18.240 --> 0:32:21.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, apparently I was a pretty tough one out

0:32:21.480 --> 0:32:27.280
<v Speaker 2>there in southern California. I'm in New York. Apparently the

0:32:27.280 --> 0:32:30.080
<v Speaker 2>only time server is down and either of being flooded

0:32:30.800 --> 0:32:34.920
<v Speaker 2>or damaged or who knows. There's the Ultimate Issues our

0:32:35.000 --> 0:32:39.000
<v Speaker 2>Dennis Prager interrupted by an earthquake. But you know, we

0:32:39.360 --> 0:32:43.680
<v Speaker 2>go on. We troop on, no matter where it is, thunderstorms, tornadoes,

0:32:44.280 --> 0:32:46.360
<v Speaker 2>That's what I said, the Happiness Hour, right, no matter what.

0:32:47.760 --> 0:32:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Talking about Hell and Helen Heaven here and let me

0:32:53.000 --> 0:32:56.520
<v Speaker 2>summarize some of your calls. I've been making the case

0:32:56.560 --> 0:32:59.520
<v Speaker 2>here for a moral person to hope that there is

0:32:59.680 --> 0:33:03.320
<v Speaker 2>some form of heaven and hell, because there's hell for

0:33:03.400 --> 0:33:06.560
<v Speaker 2>good people here in heaven or for bad people too often,

0:33:07.640 --> 0:33:11.160
<v Speaker 2>and doesn't that bother you? Don't you want there to

0:33:11.200 --> 0:33:15.400
<v Speaker 2>be some recompense somewhere, if not this world, then something

0:33:15.480 --> 0:33:19.280
<v Speaker 2>after this world. So why would people be offended at

0:33:19.280 --> 0:33:22.520
<v Speaker 2>the notion? Now you may not like any given religions

0:33:22.600 --> 0:33:26.120
<v Speaker 2>take on Hell. That's separate issue. That's why I said,

0:33:26.120 --> 0:33:30.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm not talking theology. I'm talking morality, justice and reason.

0:33:32.560 --> 0:33:35.520
<v Speaker 2>All right, let's see. So Ron says he doesn't believe

0:33:35.520 --> 0:33:38.320
<v Speaker 2>in hell and fort Worth because a good God wouldn't

0:33:38.360 --> 0:33:40.760
<v Speaker 2>torture people forever. I'm not here to deal with the

0:33:40.760 --> 0:33:44.479
<v Speaker 2>forever issue. I announced that at the very beginning, So

0:33:44.680 --> 0:33:47.400
<v Speaker 2>that means I assume from that that Ron believes that

0:33:47.440 --> 0:33:51.120
<v Speaker 2>there would be a time limited hell. That's fine. My

0:33:51.360 --> 0:33:55.200
<v Speaker 2>argument was, again, please please just react to what I'm

0:33:55.240 --> 0:34:00.640
<v Speaker 2>saying that the idea of a divine reward in punishment, heaven, Hell,

0:34:00.760 --> 0:34:04.040
<v Speaker 2>call it what you want, is axiomatic to belief in

0:34:04.080 --> 0:34:08.080
<v Speaker 2>the good God. I'll tell you that was a fascinating

0:34:08.160 --> 0:34:10.800
<v Speaker 2>call with the eighteen year old young man who said

0:34:10.840 --> 0:34:13.440
<v Speaker 2>that God wants us all happy, so he wouldn't send

0:34:13.480 --> 0:34:19.719
<v Speaker 2>anybody to Hell. Now, God is more interested that injustice

0:34:19.719 --> 0:34:22.880
<v Speaker 2>than he is, and that bad people are happy. Anyway,

0:34:22.880 --> 0:34:25.960
<v Speaker 2>we wouldn't all be happy. As I said, I wouldn't

0:34:26.000 --> 0:34:34.440
<v Speaker 2>be happy if I knew that that terrorists went to heaven.

0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:38.400
<v Speaker 2>Isn't that obvious? So they may be happy, I wouldn't.

0:34:39.760 --> 0:34:43.800
<v Speaker 2>How about the victims by that that's a real source

0:34:43.800 --> 0:34:48.800
<v Speaker 2>of happiness. Yes, your kid has the nails in his head. Indeed,

0:34:48.800 --> 0:34:51.799
<v Speaker 2>I met I met such a child in Israel with

0:34:51.880 --> 0:34:53.839
<v Speaker 2>a nail that went to his head. You know by

0:34:53.880 --> 0:34:56.400
<v Speaker 2>you know these latest by the way, these latest killings

0:34:56.400 --> 0:35:03.239
<v Speaker 2>by these women. Any they put nails in the bombs

0:35:03.840 --> 0:35:07.720
<v Speaker 2>so that those who are not murdered are brain damaged,

0:35:07.960 --> 0:35:11.359
<v Speaker 2>eyes blown out by a nail. Palestinians developed that one

0:35:11.680 --> 0:35:15.560
<v Speaker 2>for export. Yeah, that's why I want to have it

0:35:15.640 --> 0:35:18.000
<v Speaker 2>in a hell? Now? Is this Ultimate Issues hour? You're

0:35:18.000 --> 0:35:19.560
<v Speaker 2>listening to the Denis Prager.

0:35:19.400 --> 0:35:30.080
<v Speaker 1>Show Tomorrow un Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.

0:35:30.160 --> 0:35:33.719
<v Speaker 2>If you allow yourself, and this is super duper serious,

0:35:34.040 --> 0:35:37.400
<v Speaker 2>if you allow yourself to be better to the extent

0:35:37.480 --> 0:35:44.279
<v Speaker 2>that you allow your feelings to do two things. One

0:35:44.480 --> 0:35:49.680
<v Speaker 2>control your behavior. Two be the measure of your happiness,

0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:53.719
<v Speaker 2>you can never ever be happy, and you will inflict

0:35:54.120 --> 0:35:57.279
<v Speaker 2>misery on others. Other than that, it is a good

0:35:57.320 --> 0:35:59.040
<v Speaker 2>idea to be guided by your feelings.

0:35:59.440 --> 0:36:03.239
<v Speaker 1>Join us too to hear more on timeless wisdom with

0:36:03.400 --> 0:36:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Dennis Prager. This has been timeless wisdom with Dennis Prager.

0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:12.960
<v Speaker 1>Visit Dennisprager dot com for thousands of hours of Dennis's lectures, courses,

0:36:13.000 --> 0:36:17.640
<v Speaker 1>and classic radio programs, and to purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles.