Speaker 1: On today's episode of Timeless Wisdom.
Speaker 2: Can a sophisticated, modern, contemporary, intellectual, rational, moral person believe
Speaker 2: in hell?
Speaker 1: That's coming up on Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Welcome
Speaker 1: to Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager. Here thousands of hours
Speaker 1: of Dennis's lectures courses in classic radio programs had to
Speaker 1: purchase Dennis Prager's Rational Bibles. Go to Dennisprager dot com.
Speaker 2: To be or not to be? That is the question?
Speaker 2: Why was God?
Speaker 3: Isn't God supposed to be good this us?
Speaker 4: Does God want us to suffer ten years?
Speaker 2: You're not Dennis yet?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 2: Who are you?
Speaker 1: Bruce?
Speaker 2: I'm God? Bingo yazi? Is that your final answer? Our services?
Speaker 1: God? Binginginging dingding ding.
Speaker 2: Well, it was nice to meet you God. Thank you
Speaker 2: for the Grand Canyon and good luck with the apocalypse. Hi, everybody.
Speaker 2: This is the Ultimate Issues Hour on the Dennis Prager Show.
Speaker 2: Every week this hour is devoted to some great issue
Speaker 2: of life, and the issue today is I wish I
Speaker 2: had a drum roll? Here? Do you guys have a
Speaker 2: drum roll? Give me a drum roll. The issue today
Speaker 2: is very good, very very good. The issue today is hell.
Speaker 2: H e double l and can a sophisticated, modern, contemporary, intellectual, rational,
Speaker 2: moral person believe in hell? Well, I will give you
Speaker 2: my response, and I will be happy to take your
Speaker 2: calls in response to my response to hold on a moment.
Speaker 2: Not only do I believe that there is a hell,
Speaker 2: which I will explain in a moment, I pray there
Speaker 2: is one, and that I know will offend some people.
Speaker 2: And if you're offended by that, you let me know. See, folks,
Speaker 2: this notion that a lot of people have, well, I
Speaker 2: believe in a sort of heaven, but there is no
Speaker 2: hell cracks me up. So what exactly is there? If
Speaker 2: good people go to heaven, where do bad people go? Now?
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get into that issue of the
Speaker 2: criteria that your religion or you or you personally have
Speaker 2: or who gets to heaven and who gets to hell.
Speaker 2: That's a separate issue. It's a theological difference. I never
Speaker 2: debate theological differences their statements of faith, and it is pointless,
Speaker 2: truly pointless, to debate faith, in my opinion. I never do.
Speaker 2: I debate everything else in life, but I certainly debate reason.
Speaker 2: Remember this, folks, Let me get to the bottom line,
Speaker 2: and then work backwards. Those of you who say that
Speaker 2: you hope there is no hell or there is no Hell,
Speaker 2: are saying that you hope that the most vile human beings,
Speaker 2: the cruelest, most sadistic human beings, do not in any
Speaker 2: way get punished after they die. That's what you're saying.
Speaker 2: I don't know why you would root for that. Those
Speaker 2: of you who hope there is no such thing as
Speaker 2: a hell, please call me and tell me why, And
Speaker 2: now you can start one eight Praeger seven seven six.
Speaker 2: But I'd like you to react to what I'm saying
Speaker 2: and not offer a monologue of your own. Forgive me,
Speaker 2: but that is I really want to narrow this to
Speaker 2: the arguments that I am making. There is something a moral,
Speaker 2: Isn't there about a universe wherein there is no punishment
Speaker 2: for bad deeds? Do you really want the universe to
Speaker 2: be like that? Those of you who hope there is
Speaker 2: no hell, or who believe that belief in hell is primitive. Now, folks,
Speaker 2: let me make something clear. I have no definition for hell.
Speaker 2: I don't picture people burning. I don't even picture it
Speaker 2: for eternity. I don't know how much time people spend there.
Speaker 2: The word time makes no sense after death anyway, so
Speaker 2: I have no desire to use it. So I'm not
Speaker 2: talking about eternal punishment. I am not talking about burning.
Speaker 2: I am talking about reward and punishm we have names
Speaker 2: for them. They are symbolic names. Reward is called heaven,
Speaker 2: Punishment is called hell. Those of you who hope that
Speaker 2: there is no hell, or can't believe that a good,
Speaker 2: loving God would have one, are saying that a good,
Speaker 2: loving God doesn't punish those who torture children. Do you
Speaker 2: really believe that that's a loving God? I don't. If
Speaker 2: God is loving, there is punishment after death. I don't
Speaker 2: even understand the concept of God loves humanity but doesn't
Speaker 2: punish those who rape children. I don't get it. I don't.
Speaker 2: That's why you'll have to explain that to me. Why
Speaker 2: it is that you would even think that way. Likewise, heaven,
Speaker 2: of course there is reward, and by the way, there
Speaker 2: are These are certainly basic to all faiths. Every faith
Speaker 2: I know, east or West believes that we earn some
Speaker 2: type of hereafter consequence. I know that there are Christians
Speaker 2: who say, well, we don't earn it. It's gone through
Speaker 2: God's grace and it's done through faith. It's still earned.
Speaker 2: It's earned by your faith. Okay, there's something that you've
Speaker 2: done to go to a certain place afterwards. So everybody
Speaker 2: has it in some way, some through act, some through faith,
Speaker 2: some through through acts and faith. Eastern religion believes that
Speaker 2: you'll come back here and karma you will be. You
Speaker 2: will suffer for what you did in the past life
Speaker 2: in this life, but there's still the after life to
Speaker 2: this life that you'll suffer because the reason it's universal
Speaker 2: and Judaism. There are thirteen principles of the Jewish faith,
Speaker 2: according to the greatest Jewish philosopher whoever lived my monodies.
Speaker 2: One of them is that there is reward and punishment.
Speaker 2: God rewards the good and punishes the bad of all
Speaker 2: all faiths after this life. Every religion that has ever
Speaker 2: existed believes that that the good, that that however they
Speaker 2: define the good, are rewarded, and however they define the bad,
Speaker 2: are are punished after this life. Why modern sophisticates think
Speaker 2: that that is primitive or bad is my question. That's
Speaker 2: my challenge to you. Why would you hope there isn't
Speaker 2: anything like a hell? Do you really want people who
Speaker 2: the people who slipped that that you know, the innocent
Speaker 2: throats uh in and and and and were burned alive
Speaker 2: Americans on nine to eleven, or rand the Nazi, the
Speaker 2: death camps, or the Japanese death marches. You want them
Speaker 2: to have the same exact fate as Mother Teresa? Is
Speaker 2: that is that what you consider sophisticated? Wow, then then
Speaker 2: count me as a non sophistic one eight Prager seven
Speaker 2: seven six one eighth p r G e R seven
Speaker 2: seven six. That's the uh that's the phone number here
Speaker 2: thirteen minutes past the hour on the Dennis Prager Show.
Speaker 2: And I I would be I would be very curious
Speaker 2: to hear from anybody who has difficulty with the notion
Speaker 2: of a hell, in other words, the notion that a good, kind,
Speaker 2: just God punishes people after this life. If I didn't
Speaker 2: believe that God did that, I would not believe in him.
Speaker 2: I would not consider him kind or just. I I
Speaker 2: am as dependent upon the belief in a hell as
Speaker 2: I am on a heaven. For my for my sanity,
Speaker 2: for my for my love and regard for God. If
Speaker 2: all he does is is give the same faith to everybody,
Speaker 2: no matter how we acted on this planet. Wow, let
Speaker 2: me take your calls, folks, Let's begin with Jeff in
Speaker 2: Canoga Park, California. Thanks for calling, Jeff. This is Dennis Prager,
Speaker 2: the Ultimate Issues Hour.
Speaker 5: Yes, I want to bring up this idea.
Speaker 6: There's been people that have that I've hated, or people
Speaker 6: that have I've disliked or wanted to hurt because they
Speaker 6: don't get revenge or whatever. But I've never come across
Speaker 6: anybody that I'd want to see suffer somewhere forever. Now,
Speaker 6: how can I be more compassionate than God? In other words,
Speaker 6: I wouldn't want to see someone tortured forever. I understand
Speaker 6: maybe free well.
Speaker 2: I deliberately dropped the forever from consideration. I dropped it.
Speaker 2: I said, I have no time frame here. I just
Speaker 2: want to know. Do you believe that that a that
Speaker 2: a a a Nazi torturer should be punished after death? Sure?
Speaker 6: That would be you know, that would be fine. I
Speaker 6: understand that.
Speaker 2: But most so, the only objection you have as to
Speaker 2: how long? Yeah?
Speaker 6: Because all right, right, right, right, right.
Speaker 2: Right, so that we have no argument. I'm with you.
Speaker 2: I'm with you, Jeff. I have no position on the
Speaker 2: eternity question. I have no idea where why one would
Speaker 2: affirm that necessarily, I don't. I have no idea. God
Speaker 2: is just. He'll figure out how long a person's punished.
Speaker 2: But most people today, Jeff who, or at least most
Speaker 2: secular people today, find the idea of hell, even for
Speaker 2: twenty minutes repulsive. Okay, all right, okay, good, all right,
Speaker 2: thank you. That's all I'm That's what I'm arguing. I'm
Speaker 2: arguing that it is not only not sophisticated, it is unjust,
Speaker 2: and more, it is moral chaos to wish that there
Speaker 2: is no such thing as heaven and Hell. And I
Speaker 2: include Hell just as much as heaven. I have no position.
Speaker 2: I have no position on the eternity issue because it's
Speaker 2: it's not what I'm talking about. The people who object
Speaker 2: their being heaven and Hell do so on the grounds
Speaker 2: of sophistication, reason, and morality. How could a good God
Speaker 2: send anybody to Hell? I have the opposite, How could
Speaker 2: a good God not back in a moment, I'm Dennis Prager.
Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
Speaker 2: Okay, my friends, is the Ultimate Issues hour twenty one
Speaker 2: minutes past the hour on the Ultimate Issues hour, So
Speaker 2: it means it's twenty one minutes after the Ultimate Okay,
Speaker 2: it's pure silliness, pure undiluted Christine Silliness on this Ultimate
Speaker 2: Issue's hour. I have raised the presumably somewhat provocative issue,
Speaker 2: and it's provocative only in the sense that I want
Speaker 2: to provoke you to think. If you have dismissed the
Speaker 2: notion of heaven and hell as primitive and unworthy of
Speaker 2: a sophisticated god or unworthy of a sophisticated mind, I
Speaker 2: don't know why you would do that. The notion that
Speaker 2: no matter how you act in this world, there is
Speaker 2: no reward or punishment for you is hardly a desirable notion.
Speaker 2: Why would anybody want to believe that? I mean, maybe
Speaker 2: you have to believe that because you just don't believe
Speaker 2: there's any God, and therefore there can't be any reward
Speaker 2: and punishment after life. So I look, and you're unhappy
Speaker 2: about it. I respect that tremendously. Look, your intellect tells
Speaker 2: you you just can't believe in a god, and therefore
Speaker 2: Hitler and Mother Teresa have the same fates and so
Speaker 2: but it's unfair, it's tragic, and there's nothing you can
Speaker 2: do about it. Okay, fine, But for those of you
Speaker 2: who believe that there is a God and believe that
Speaker 2: somehow it's unworthy of God to have a heaven and
Speaker 2: a hell, I don't get that it's unworthy of a
Speaker 2: god not to have one. I mean I I and
Speaker 2: I want there to be. I want the good punished.
Speaker 2: I want the good they're rewarded. I want the bad punished.
Speaker 2: I do it keeps me sane when I see the
Speaker 2: cruelty of this world. That bothers me tremendously. Doesn't bother you. Alrighty,
Speaker 2: let's go to Long Beach, California. Bill, Hi, Bill, thanks
Speaker 2: for calling. Dennis Prager here, Hey.
Speaker 7: Dennis, thanks for taking my call.
Speaker 2: I love your show great. Thank you me too.
Speaker 7: I have had issues with the I like to termy
Speaker 7: brob as it being a primitive notion because I don't
Speaker 7: believe there would be a heaven or hell. And I
Speaker 7: think the God that's portrayed has has kind of a
Speaker 7: shady character, Like when you look at the First Book
Speaker 7: of Samuel, God command Israelites to kill women and babies
Speaker 7: for the sake of poli war. So I think this
Speaker 7: is based in Christianity. And Judaism and Islam as far
Speaker 7: as a god.
Speaker 5: That is, you know, can justify killing innocent.
Speaker 7: People and commanding a followers to do so. And so
Speaker 7: I think it's based on how morality, you know, changes
Speaker 7: and flexes.
Speaker 2: Well. Well, even putting that aside, let's say there was
Speaker 2: no Let's say God and Samuel said, please take all
Speaker 2: the enemies babies and raise them as wonderful people. I
Speaker 2: don't think it would affect any of your beliefs whatsoever.
Speaker 2: So let's leave Samuel out. Do you believe that the
Speaker 2: Hitler and mother Teresa have the same fates?
Speaker 6: You know what?
Speaker 5: I'm with you.
Speaker 7: I believe that he shouldn't have the same fate. If
Speaker 7: I had night brothers, I don't think they shouldn't have.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you hope for wait wait, wait, all right,
Speaker 2: so one minute. So you also hope that there was
Speaker 2: a heaven and a hell like I do.
Speaker 7: That's the thing I hope to But I guess I'm
Speaker 7: kind of alone in it because I know a lot
Speaker 7: of the hardline fundament Most Christians believe that Hitler was
Speaker 7: a Christian, so he's saved, regardless of acts.
Speaker 2: I have never met a Christian who thought that Hitler
Speaker 2: was saved. I mean, I'm sure there are, but I
Speaker 2: have never met one. But even putting I don't want
Speaker 2: to get it all sidetracked here. You and I both
Speaker 2: believe it would be an infinitely better universe if there
Speaker 2: were some form of heaven in some form of health.
Speaker 7: Correct, yes, but like the previous color, I believe hell
Speaker 7: should be more of like, more like karmak, like like
Speaker 7: the Hindus in the Buddhis where it's a learning process
Speaker 7: and you go through your punishment and then you know,
Speaker 7: like you said, time is a non issue in the afterlife,
Speaker 7: so you go through.
Speaker 2: All right, fine, but you want you want the bad
Speaker 2: to to have consequences for their actions, right, all right?
Speaker 2: So now, so what's the So where do we differ
Speaker 2: if we differ at all?
Speaker 7: Well, I listen to your program, and I know you
Speaker 7: have a lot of respect and for your Jewish heritage.
Speaker 7: I'm just wondering how much of that is when you
Speaker 7: actually read the Old Testament and you see that, you know,
Speaker 7: God justifying the killing of innocent hose.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's all right. Yes, I do deal with that,
Speaker 2: and I admit that it it's problematic, but I do
Speaker 2: deal with it and I and in the final analysis,
Speaker 2: I would have to drop my faith. If God made
Speaker 2: a commandment you will always kill babies and children of enemies.
Speaker 2: But no, there was a one time order in a
Speaker 2: one time situation, and only God knows why. And I
Speaker 2: have to say in the final analysis that if God
Speaker 2: said it, for whatever reason, God said it, and I
Speaker 2: am not God. But since it has no ramification whatsoever
Speaker 2: in my life or the life of any Jew proposed Samuel,
Speaker 2: it's an academic question more than any other, so that's
Speaker 2: how I deal with it. But in any event, we
Speaker 2: agree on heaven and hell. We both hope that there
Speaker 2: is one. And that is my argument here because if
Speaker 2: you go to modern sophisticated language today at the university,
Speaker 2: for example, and among the intellectual elite, to say that
Speaker 2: you hope that there is a heaven and a hell
Speaker 2: is really almost like flatulating at a cocktail party. You
Speaker 2: just can't do that. It's just too disruptive of everybody's sensibilities.
Speaker 2: And I don't I don't know exactly why, but that's
Speaker 2: why I'm making this case to disrupt those sensibilities. One
Speaker 2: eighth Prager seven seven six one eighth pr A G
Speaker 2: er seven seven six, and let's go to Corona, California
Speaker 2: and Ken, Hello, Ken, Dennis.
Speaker 4: Prager, Hi, Hi Dennis. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2: Good? I'm wealth today? Thank you.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I do believe that there's punishment for evil. If you
Speaker 4: look at Adam and Eaves time for sinning against God
Speaker 4: and mankind. They were given to death penalty, and Adam
Speaker 4: was told from the dust, you were returned from the dust,
Speaker 4: you were taken.
Speaker 2: Well, well they they they were not given the death
Speaker 2: penalty except that, well they were I guess yes, because
Speaker 2: they were immortal presumably, and now they would eventually die,
Speaker 2: but they didn't die at the moment, yes, go on,
Speaker 2: so so what's the point.
Speaker 4: No, but if they did, if they didn't sin, they
Speaker 4: would have been with us today and all of us
Speaker 4: would have been living in perfect Yeah.
Speaker 2: I have never found that to be compelling, because inevitably
Speaker 2: they if they didn't sin, then their children would have sinned.
Speaker 2: They weren't They weren't made. They weren't made not to sin.
Speaker 2: They were made God made. No, they weren't. They were God.
Speaker 2: How could they wait a minute? How could you be
Speaker 2: made not to They weren't perfect. If they were perfect,
Speaker 2: they went wait, wait, wait, wait, if they were perfect,
Speaker 2: they wouldn't have sinned.
Speaker 4: Well, that's where we have free will. God didn't want robots.
Speaker 2: You're right, you're right. Then they weren't perfect because free
Speaker 2: will means that you will do make an imperfect choice.
Speaker 2: It's inevitable.
Speaker 4: Well I don't believe exactly that. But it also if
Speaker 4: you think about what Adam did to mankind, nobody was
Speaker 4: more reprehensible than him, because if if he he caused
Speaker 4: the death of all humans today, because all are dying.
Speaker 2: Right, all right, well he brought he brought death into
Speaker 2: the world, as the story would go, Yes, that's right, okay,
Speaker 2: so so but but but but his.
Speaker 4: Sin, yes, was to never be able to live again.
Speaker 2: And wait, what what does that have to do with
Speaker 2: heaven and hell?
Speaker 4: Well, you think about that's the only punishment he deserved
Speaker 4: for what he had done. He would never have a
Speaker 4: chance to have his life back again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, but I don't know what that has
Speaker 2: to do with heaven and hell. Anyway, I don't think
Speaker 2: he went to hell. You in my book, and everybody
Speaker 2: has a different book on this. You have to do
Speaker 2: something rather evil. Eating from the prohibited tree of Knowledge
Speaker 2: was not evil. It was a sin. We'll be back
Speaker 2: in a moment. You're listening to the Denis Prager Show
Speaker 2: thirty four minutes past the hour on the Ultimate Issues
Speaker 2: hour on the Dennis Prager Show. Every week at this
Speaker 2: time I devote an hour to some great issue of life.
Speaker 2: There are two and only two issues on this one.
Speaker 2: It's easy people get sidetracked. I totally understand it. But
Speaker 2: I won't. I won't allow that to happen because then
Speaker 2: we will lose the point of the hour. I'm talking
Speaker 2: about heaven and hell, and I have two and only
Speaker 2: two items for your consideration. One is it okay to
Speaker 2: hope that there is a heaven and a hell? Or
Speaker 2: is it only okay to hope that there is a heaven? Two?
Speaker 2: Are there a heaven in hell? That's it. I'm not
Speaker 2: talking about how long. I know for some Hell by
Speaker 2: definition is eternal. That is not my agenda here. My
Speaker 2: agenda is not theology. My agenda is morality and indeed justice.
Speaker 2: What is it that one hopes for? Because why am
Speaker 2: I raising this? Because it is in many circles, as
Speaker 2: they say today, in intellectual circles, it is unshekh at
Speaker 2: the very least to hope that there is a hell,
Speaker 2: let alone to believe in it. What's wrong with you? Oh, oh,
Speaker 2: what's wrong with you? Well? I want to know I
Speaker 2: have absent. What's wrong with a person who doesn't want
Speaker 2: the truly vicious and sadistic and cruel to be punished
Speaker 2: and the truly good to be rewarded? I don't what's
Speaker 2: wrong with them? That's to me, that's the question. All right,
Speaker 2: let's go to some more of your calls, and in Champlin, Minnesota,
Speaker 2: it's Steve. Steve, thank you for calling this a Dennis Praeger.
Speaker 5: Hi, Hi Dennis, thanks for taking my call.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 5: I am just wondering about your rationale so far as
Speaker 5: I've heard it in the show, revolving a lot around
Speaker 5: what you want or hope that hell exists, that heaven exists.
Speaker 5: And I'm wondering how you would respond to, you know,
Speaker 5: sometime in the future finding out that yes there is
Speaker 5: a Hell, yes there's a heaven, but they don't function
Speaker 5: quite like you want them to.
Speaker 2: Ask for example, do you have an example in mine
Speaker 2: or is it just a generic question? Well, perhaps you
Speaker 2: mean they think and let's say the opposite. You mean
Speaker 2: bad people go to heaven and good people go to hell.
Speaker 5: No, certainly not the people in hell. We seem to
Speaker 5: have a spectrum of how bad the thing is that
Speaker 5: they've done. Maybe somebody just missed the line and they're
Speaker 5: in hell, but the thing they did isn't that bad
Speaker 5: versus some.
Speaker 2: Of the Well, I believe that God, well all right,
Speaker 2: I believe that God is perfectly just and that hour
Speaker 2: and that our fate is determined by God's perfect justice.
Speaker 2: That's all so that I don't believe that the man
Speaker 2: who who tortures children and the man who takes a
Speaker 2: stapler from his office have the same same punishment.
Speaker 5: So you are trusting in a sense, then God's justice
Speaker 5: to resolve.
Speaker 2: You could drop the words in a sense. Okay, great,
Speaker 2: all right, okay, good. I love that. I love clearing
Speaker 2: things up. Let me try to do that for Ben
Speaker 2: in Philadelphia, Ben Dennis Brager, all right.
Speaker 3: Dennis, Yes, I think that if God is good, then
Speaker 3: there would be no help because God was everyone to
Speaker 3: just be happy.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you this. Well, well, Ben, that would.
Speaker 3: Just be that would everyone everyone be good?
Speaker 2: I mean? Okay, well, well, well, first of all, if
Speaker 2: there if there is no hell, I won't be happy.
Speaker 6: But I mean, but I'm saying.
Speaker 3: In having like, whether if God could just make you.
Speaker 2: Happy, why would you want Why would you think that
Speaker 2: a good God would make would make a a mass
Speaker 2: torture er happy? Why? Why is that? Why does that
Speaker 2: mean God is good? Why God isn't good if he
Speaker 2: doesn't treat the good and bad differently?
Speaker 3: No, because because God will just want everybody to be happy.
Speaker 3: That's what makes God so good.
Speaker 2: No, that doesn't make him good. It makes him stupid,
Speaker 2: It makes him vicious. A man, let me ask you something.
Speaker 2: If somebody can't wait, wait, wait, wait, wait Ben, Ben,
Speaker 2: hold on Ben, you're at You're eighteen? Are you at school?
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 2: Okay. If there was a kid in your class who
Speaker 2: went over and uh whenever he could beat up really severely,
Speaker 2: or any kid he could find, and the school finally
Speaker 2: caught him, would you want them to want to make
Speaker 2: him happy? Or would you want them to have him
Speaker 2: punished in some way? I'll wait to give you time
Speaker 2: to give me that answer. One eight Praguer seven seven
Speaker 2: six is the number on this ultimate issues on The
Speaker 2: Dennis Prager Show.
Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this
Speaker 1: now back to more of Dennis Prager's timeless wisdom.
Speaker 2: All right, everybody, you're listening to the Dennis Prager Show,
Speaker 2: and if you have been shaking, just think of the
Speaker 2: topic here one eight Praguer seven seven six. This is
Speaker 2: the Ultimate Issues Hour, and the subject is, appropriately in
Speaker 2: some parts of this country right now, heaven and heaven
Speaker 2: and Hell and the I'm making the argument that a
Speaker 2: good person can certainly hope that there is such a
Speaker 2: thing a good person can hope that there is such
Speaker 2: a thing as heaven and Hell. And we welcome back
Speaker 2: of the folks in the LA area where we just
Speaker 2: had earthquake earthquake news, and we hope everybody as well.
Speaker 2: I am in New York presently, so no shaking here.
Speaker 2: But apparently there was one felt Sean was rocking and
Speaker 2: socking back at the home studio. Seawan, are you are
Speaker 2: you study right now? Okay? Fine? I have to say
Speaker 2: there is no connection for those of you in the
Speaker 2: Los Angeles area, there is no connection between my topic
Speaker 2: and the fact that you just got shaken up quite
Speaker 2: a bit. Apparently, Well here we're getting five point eight.
Speaker 2: That's I can't believe it. That's exactly what I predicted
Speaker 2: for three thousand miles away somehow listening to it like that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I help everybody as well. And there was no
Speaker 2: relationship between the topic I chose for this Ultimate Issues
Speaker 2: Hour and this five point eight in na Chino Hills,
Speaker 2: which was felt obviously at the headquarters of the show
Speaker 2: in Glendale, California. I say, every section of the country
Speaker 2: has its own perils, that's the way it works. The
Speaker 2: tornadoes in the Midwest, the hurricanes in the East, the
Speaker 2: earthquakes in the West. What do they get in what
Speaker 2: do they get in Montana? You don't ever hear about
Speaker 2: any natural calamity in Montana. Although it's so big and
Speaker 2: so few people, it might happen and nobody would know.
Speaker 2: So who knows anyway, I truly do. They'll hope everybody
Speaker 2: as well, and we'll keep you abreast here locally in
Speaker 2: any event, for those of you in the in the
Speaker 2: LA in the LA area. And I'm getting a feedback
Speaker 2: here as well when when there's any any new report.
Speaker 2: But again I I plead guilt, I plead innocent, excuse me,
Speaker 2: not guilty to any correlation between my topic and this
Speaker 2: and this event. So the topic here on the ultimate
Speaker 2: issues hour has been my belief that it's quite all
Speaker 2: right to hope there's a heaven and a hell. And
Speaker 2: you can't only hope there's a heaven. It makes no sense.
Speaker 2: So what does it mean? Does everybody go to heaven?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 2: If not, everybody goes to heaven, so then whatever it
Speaker 2: is that they don't go to that would be a hell.
Speaker 2: I'm not defining hell. I'm not telling you how long
Speaker 2: it is. I don't care all I I'm happy to
Speaker 2: use the words reward and punishment, but I don't outsophisticate
Speaker 2: myself and drop the traditional term. It's fine with me
Speaker 2: heaven and hell. Alrighty, let's go to Will in Frisco, Texas.
Speaker 2: Will Dennis Praeger.
Speaker 8: Hi, Hi, you know what, you're smart man. I'm sitting
Speaker 8: here listening you talk, and instead of saying heaven in
Speaker 8: hell trying to figure out the correct term for it,
Speaker 8: you're fine with same punishment and I. At first, can
Speaker 8: I just say I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: Yes, you may say, yeah, thank you, sir.
Speaker 8: Now, I don't believe that this should be the type
Speaker 8: of hell that most people try to force down your throat, because, uh,
Speaker 8: from from my research and and and and I've looked
Speaker 8: at manuscripts and and other other things to come to
Speaker 8: find out that the hell that most people try to
Speaker 8: shove down your throat don't even exist. It's actually a
Speaker 8: common grave. And I can't figure out, Well.
Speaker 2: Why do you refer I'm sorry you're referring to what
Speaker 2: what do you mean by the hell people are shoving
Speaker 2: down your throat?
Speaker 8: Like most people like like the way you.
Speaker 2: Mean the one where people burn? You mean that one?
Speaker 2: All right? What's all right? Let us say that some
Speaker 2: terribly bad people do suffer burning. So so you find
Speaker 2: do you find that morally objectionable? I'm trying to figure
Speaker 2: out do you believe do you are you at peace
Speaker 2: with punishment?
Speaker 8: Well? I think I think one should be punished, including it. Okay,
Speaker 8: as they mentioned.
Speaker 2: Earlier, Well that's noel, You're well, we're getting into theology,
Speaker 2: and I'm not getting into theology. I just want to
Speaker 2: speak morality and justice. A lot of people today, especially
Speaker 2: secularly educated people, find the notion of heaven and hell
Speaker 2: morally objectionable and intellectually stupid. I don't think it's intellectually stupid,
Speaker 2: and I don't think it's morally problematic I think it's
Speaker 2: morally problematic if there's a God who doesn't punish bad people.
Speaker 2: I tell you, Okay, that's all. That's it, and I
Speaker 2: thank you for your call, I really do. Will you see,
Speaker 2: here's the irony. I think that most people, actually, when
Speaker 2: put this way in non theological terms, will agree that
Speaker 2: that that our the moral equilibrium of the world, and
Speaker 2: indeed the our own psychological equilibrium, are dependent in large
Speaker 2: measure on the belief that there is reward and punishment
Speaker 2: after this life. Folks, it doesn't happen in this life.
Speaker 2: I mean, let's be honest. There are true people who
Speaker 2: do awful, awful things who are not punished in this life,
Speaker 2: and there are people who are utterly innocent who suffer
Speaker 2: hell in this life. So there has to be some way.
Speaker 2: If there is a good God, then he makes up
Speaker 2: for this somehow, he compensates for that imbalance. To me,
Speaker 2: this is just it's so basic and so elementary. I
Speaker 2: don't know why it's contentious. That's the reason I'm raising
Speaker 2: it though, because if you said this, you know you hope, oh,
Speaker 2: your moral and emotional equilibrium depend upon there being some
Speaker 2: form of heaven and hell. If you said this in
Speaker 2: some graduate seminar in psychology, sociology, political science, and god
Speaker 2: knows what you would be looked at as if you,
Speaker 2: I don't know, advocated smoking cigarettes. Well, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know about that bad I We'll be back
Speaker 2: in a moment. Final segment of this Ultimate Issues is
Speaker 2: out are coming up on the Dennis Praguer Show.
Speaker 1: This episode of Timeless Wisdom will continue right after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to more of Dennis Prager's Timeless Wisdom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, apparently I was a pretty tough one out
Speaker 2: there in southern California. I'm in New York. Apparently the
Speaker 2: only time server is down and either of being flooded
Speaker 2: or damaged or who knows. There's the Ultimate Issues our
Speaker 2: Dennis Prager interrupted by an earthquake. But you know, we
Speaker 2: go on. We troop on, no matter where it is, thunderstorms, tornadoes,
Speaker 2: That's what I said, the Happiness Hour, right, no matter what.
Speaker 2: Talking about Hell and Helen Heaven here and let me
Speaker 2: summarize some of your calls. I've been making the case
Speaker 2: here for a moral person to hope that there is
Speaker 2: some form of heaven and hell, because there's hell for
Speaker 2: good people here in heaven or for bad people too often,
Speaker 2: and doesn't that bother you? Don't you want there to
Speaker 2: be some recompense somewhere, if not this world, then something
Speaker 2: after this world. So why would people be offended at
Speaker 2: the notion? Now you may not like any given religions
Speaker 2: take on Hell. That's separate issue. That's why I said,
Speaker 2: I'm not talking theology. I'm talking morality, justice and reason.
Speaker 2: All right, let's see. So Ron says he doesn't believe
Speaker 2: in hell and fort Worth because a good God wouldn't
Speaker 2: torture people forever. I'm not here to deal with the
Speaker 2: forever issue. I announced that at the very beginning, So
Speaker 2: that means I assume from that that Ron believes that
Speaker 2: there would be a time limited hell. That's fine. My
Speaker 2: argument was, again, please please just react to what I'm
Speaker 2: saying that the idea of a divine reward in punishment, heaven, Hell,
Speaker 2: call it what you want, is axiomatic to belief in
Speaker 2: the good God. I'll tell you that was a fascinating
Speaker 2: call with the eighteen year old young man who said
Speaker 2: that God wants us all happy, so he wouldn't send
Speaker 2: anybody to Hell. Now, God is more interested that injustice
Speaker 2: than he is, and that bad people are happy. Anyway,
Speaker 2: we wouldn't all be happy. As I said, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: be happy if I knew that that terrorists went to heaven.
Speaker 2: Isn't that obvious? So they may be happy, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: How about the victims by that that's a real source
Speaker 2: of happiness. Yes, your kid has the nails in his head. Indeed,
Speaker 2: I met I met such a child in Israel with
Speaker 2: a nail that went to his head. You know by
Speaker 2: you know these latest by the way, these latest killings
Speaker 2: by these women. Any they put nails in the bombs
Speaker 2: so that those who are not murdered are brain damaged,
Speaker 2: eyes blown out by a nail. Palestinians developed that one
Speaker 2: for export. Yeah, that's why I want to have it
Speaker 2: in a hell? Now? Is this Ultimate Issues hour? You're
Speaker 2: listening to the Denis Prager.
Speaker 1: Show Tomorrow un Timeless Wisdom with Dennis Prager.
Speaker 2: If you allow yourself, and this is super duper serious,
Speaker 2: if you allow yourself to be better to the extent
Speaker 2: that you allow your feelings to do two things. One
Speaker 2: control your behavior. Two be the measure of your happiness,
Speaker 2: you can never ever be happy, and you will inflict
Speaker 2: misery on others. Other than that, it is a good
Speaker 2: idea to be guided by your feelings.
Speaker 1: Join us too to hear more on timeless wisdom with
Speaker 1: Dennis Prager. This has been timeless wisdom with Dennis Prager.
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