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Speaker 1: Life audio. We've made what people did to us or

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Speaker 1: said about us bigger than what Jesus did for us

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Speaker 1: at Calvary. The centrality of the Gospel is that I'm

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Speaker 1: not minimizing pain or suffering ever, but I am saying

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Speaker 1: what Jesus did for me at Calvary is bigger than

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Speaker 1: what anyone did to me here on earth.

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Speaker 2: You're about to join my conversation with my very special guest,

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Speaker 2: Christine King. Christine is an accomplished speaker. She speaks all

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Speaker 2: around the world. She's a prolific author. She's the founder

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Speaker 2: of an organization called eight twenty one that helps people

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Speaker 2: who have been traffic and she does so much more.

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Speaker 2: I think of her as a force of nature, and

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Speaker 2: the best use of that term. Christine is funny, She's biblical,

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Speaker 2: she's insightful, and she has so much to say. I

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Speaker 2: think you're going to really love this conversation, So let's

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Speaker 2: dive in. You know, you and I have something common.

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Speaker 2: I don't think either one of us was planned. We'll

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Speaker 2: use that word in quotes, because our lives were planned

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Speaker 2: by God. But my mother was buried in divorce seven times,

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Speaker 2: and she had a fling with some guy in Long

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Speaker 2: Beach and she got pregnant. So she married this other

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Speaker 2: guy and put his name on my birth certificate. And

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Speaker 2: for the first thirty years of my life, I thought

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Speaker 2: that he was my biological father. I could not understand

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Speaker 2: why he was so cold to me. After I went

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Speaker 2: and reconnected with him later and then I realized why

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Speaker 2: he wasn't my biological dad. So that's kind of a

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Speaker 2: weird discovery to realize that I'm the product of a

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Speaker 2: one night stand. But you know, the Bible says we're

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Speaker 2: fearfully we're wonderfully made. When we were in the womb,

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Speaker 2: the Lord knew us. And I think of your story

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Speaker 2: to tell us about how because you made a discovery.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know I'm Greek, and so if you've

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Speaker 1: seen my big fact Greek wedding, that is my big

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Speaker 1: fact Greek life. So you know in Australia they really

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Speaker 1: use Yeah, I've got windecks in everywhere.

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Speaker 2: Real.

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Speaker 1: It's so real that my daughter is here with us

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Speaker 1: in this interview, she would testify her mum's always squirting

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Speaker 1: on every aliment.

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Speaker 2: It's hilarious.

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Speaker 1: You know you came in earlier and you said, I

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Speaker 1: think I might have a mesquita, But I was going

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Speaker 1: to get my index out. But you know, so I

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Speaker 1: grew up in it. I mean, you've got to think

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Speaker 1: staunch Greek orthodox household. And in the nineteen sixties, nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 1: you know, I was the whole situation with women and

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Speaker 1: Greek women was very, very different in Australia then, and

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Speaker 1: so being the daughter of Greek immigrants, there were some

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Speaker 1: challenges anyway, growing.

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Speaker 2: Up now with these your adoptive parents.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but I didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: So you've got to but biologically Greek, yes.

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Speaker 1: As I found out down the track. When I had that,

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Speaker 1: I was a discussion. So I grew up what you

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Speaker 1: would think of the normal immigrants experience in Australia. Two brothers,

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Speaker 1: one older, one younger, but also not my own immediate family.

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Speaker 1: But there were people that my parents allowed into our

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Speaker 1: home that they should have been able to trust and

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Speaker 1: were very untrustworthy. So I was, for about a decade

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Speaker 1: the victim of childhood sexual abuse, and so that I

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Speaker 1: was already carrying a lot of shame and a lot

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Speaker 1: of pain, a lot of anger from that and also

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Speaker 1: from being marginalized.

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Speaker 2: We were very.

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Speaker 1: Ridiculed for being kind of the immigrant kids in a

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Speaker 1: very Australia at that time was very racist against Greeks

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Speaker 1: and Italians. That's wit we had and had mass migration

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Speaker 1: Greeks and Italians. So I was always on the margins.

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Speaker 1: You know, English is my second language, Greek is my

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Speaker 1: first language. So imagine all this is happening. And now

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Speaker 1: at thirty three, my brother, my older brother, George, calls

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Speaker 1: me and he said, Chris, I've got a letter from

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Speaker 1: the government and it says that I've been adopted. Now, Greg,

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Speaker 1: when do you tell me that? At first, I started laughing,

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Speaker 1: because you know, when you're growing up, you say to

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Speaker 1: your siblings, we're not related, like you know, you're a

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Speaker 1: I mean. But anyway, Then I went, Georgie, don't be ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: The Department of Community Services. They've obviously sent this letter

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Speaker 1: to the wrong person. And I go call them. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: About ten minutes later, he calls me back, sobbing, and

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Speaker 1: he goes, Chris, it's true. They told me the name

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Speaker 1: of my biological mother, my biological father. You know, when

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Speaker 1: I was born, when I was immunized. He goes, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to go home and confront mom. Now my dad

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Speaker 1: had died when I was nineteen. So here's my Greek

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Speaker 1: Orthodox mom, you know, home alone. She's obviously had this

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Speaker 1: family secret for thirty five years. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you know much about Greeks, but they're crazy. So

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking by my brother, no, they really am very volatile,

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Speaker 1: like you know, so my brother really could have I

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Speaker 1: just thought, I don't know where this is going to go.

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Speaker 1: I jump in my cart, go to my mom's house,

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Speaker 1: and I literally walked in the front door at the

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Speaker 1: minute that my brother is giving my mom this piece

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Speaker 1: of paper. My mom takes it. I watch the blood

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Speaker 1: drain out of her face and she starts. She goes, George,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm so sorry. The adoption laws in Australia

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties they were all closed adoptions, so

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Speaker 1: we never thought you'd find out. And before your dad died,

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Speaker 1: I promised him I'd never tell you. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it's everything you're imagining. You know, my brother's crying, my

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Speaker 1: mother's crying. I go to the kitchen to make food.

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Speaker 1: My mom walks in about ten minutes later and she

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Speaker 1: goes Chris dinner in Greek. Of course, Christina, since we're

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Speaker 1: telling the truth today, do you want to know the

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Speaker 1: whole truth? And in that moment I turned round. I

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Speaker 1: don't even know why I said this to a greg.

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Speaker 1: I go, I've been adopted too. And so here I am,

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Speaker 1: two weeks out from my thirty third birthday, and my

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Speaker 1: mom's weeping and she just goes, you know, yes. So

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Speaker 1: that day my thirty five year old brother found out

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Speaker 1: he was adopted from one set of parents. I found

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Speaker 1: out I was adopted from another set of parents. And

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Speaker 1: my younger brother was the only biological child. But the

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Speaker 1: three of us had grown up thinking that we were

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Speaker 1: biologically connected. And back then in Australia you could only

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Speaker 1: adopt same religion, same nationality. So my mother, which we've

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Speaker 1: since found out she was Greek, we know who she is.

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Speaker 1: It says her name, the father's name. It just as

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Speaker 1: the supposed father purported father, so we don't know it

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Speaker 1: was a fifty five year old married man.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And you know. So the fact is that I found

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Speaker 1: out that at thirty three. But I do want to

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Speaker 1: say this part. I had come to faith in Christ

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Speaker 1: about a decade before that, a church in a warehouse

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Speaker 1: in the back of Sydney, Australia, and You've got to understand.

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Speaker 1: Back then a big deal for a Greek Orthodox girl

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Speaker 1: to go to a Protestant church. I'd never been in one.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was a big deal. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I say I got safe, saved. So I was one

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Speaker 1: of those I was so broken, and because I was

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Speaker 1: so broken because of my past, thank God I had

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Speaker 1: someone that began to disciple me. And what she did sold.

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Speaker 1: A woman at the time said, Christine, You're going to

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Speaker 1: have to replace the lies you believe about yourself that

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Speaker 1: the abuses had said to me, that the kids at

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Speaker 1: school that had ridiculed me with the truth of the

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Speaker 1: Word of God. Now I didn't even realize the power

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Speaker 1: of that, greg But I'm going to get back into

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Speaker 1: my mother's kitchen because so for ten years, and I've

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Speaker 1: got to be honest, probably for the first year, I

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Speaker 1: didn't even believe. She would make me write out scriptures

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Speaker 1: like I am the Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.

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Speaker 1: Now I never believe that because I feel so dirty,

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Speaker 1: so broken because of my past. I am fearfully you

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Speaker 1: quoted that I am fearfully and wonderfully made, And she'd

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Speaker 1: make me. I mean, this is old school. There was

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Speaker 1: no Internet, no phones, you know, So it was you

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Speaker 1: put it on, stick it notes and stick it on

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Speaker 1: your mirror. And she would say, I want you to

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Speaker 1: quote the scripture and the verse every day. I want

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Speaker 1: you to look in the mirror. And yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: of course, it was like, you know, we are you

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Speaker 1: are fearfully and wonderfully mate. But she would say, I

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Speaker 1: want you to put Christine. You might like put my

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Speaker 1: name in that. So Christine, you are fearfully and wonderfully made. Christine,

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Speaker 1: you are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Therefore, Christine,

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Speaker 1: there is no condemnation. You know, she would make me

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Speaker 1: do that. I didn't even realize the power of that

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Speaker 1: until here we are now a decade later. I find

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Speaker 1: out shockingly, I mean my mother's kitchen. There's no harvest

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Speaker 1: worship team, there's no preacher standing there. I mean my

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Speaker 1: mom's kitchen. My brother is a mess having a breakdown

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Speaker 1: finding out, I mean, just finding this news out. My

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Speaker 1: mother has lost, you know, just everything. She was weeping

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Speaker 1: and I mean sobbing when I say sobbing, and Greg,

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Speaker 1: this is you know, the Lord's my witness. I reached

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Speaker 1: across the kitchen table because my Mum was such a mess,

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Speaker 1: and I went, I grabbed her hands and I went, Mum,

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Speaker 1: it's okay. And literally, he's a decade of renewing my

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Speaker 1: mind by the word of God. What came out of

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Speaker 1: my mother? Go Mum, it's okay? Because before I was

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Speaker 1: formed in my mother's womb, and I said to her,

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Speaker 1: who is ever a wound that was? Mum? It doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter who's ever wound that was. God knew me. God

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Speaker 1: needed together my innermost and this is what was coming

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Speaker 1: out of me and Greg that day. Every fact that

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Speaker 1: I thought to be true about my life changed, my background,

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Speaker 1: my name, my history, and to this day, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're recording this. I don't I really don't know. It

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Speaker 1: was either the result of a rape. I don't even

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Speaker 1: know if I was the result of a one night

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Speaker 1: stand or an ongoing adulterous affair. But I do know

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Speaker 1: that I'm God's workmanship and I'm recreated in Christ Jesus

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Speaker 1: for good works that God prepared beforehand. So you and

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Speaker 1: I are so similar. Like you, you know you were

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Speaker 1: the result of a one night stand. I don't quite

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Speaker 1: know what happened, but I do know that beyond all that,

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Speaker 1: a sovereign God intentionally wanted us to be on the

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Speaker 1: earth for such a time as this.

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Speaker 2: That's right. And all of these things, you know, made

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Speaker 2: you into the person you are. You know, God can

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Speaker 2: cause all things to work together for good to those

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Speaker 2: that love God. There are bad things that happened to us.

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Speaker 2: What happened to you was a child is a horrible thing.

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Speaker 2: But despite that horrible thing, it caused an iron to

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Speaker 2: enter your soul. It changed you, It affected you, and

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Speaker 2: now you use that instead of something that cripples you,

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Speaker 2: you use it as a tool to help others who

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Speaker 2: are experiencing something similar to it, you know, And I

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Speaker 2: think that's very important. You know, we have a choice

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Speaker 2: as to what we do with pain. It can make

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Speaker 2: us better or better. Yeah, and I just I interviewed

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Speaker 2: Chucks from Dall and you think he had the perfect life,

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Speaker 2: raise in the Christian home, and it was a Christian home.

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Speaker 2: But it's funny. He had an older brother named Orville,

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Speaker 2: who was very accomplished piano players, scientists. He had a

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Speaker 2: very outgoing sister named Lucy who was kind of the

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Speaker 2: light of every room. And the parents favored them and

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Speaker 2: they literally said to Chuck, you were a mistake. And

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Speaker 2: he is a little five year old boy, and he

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Speaker 2: didn't know what that meant. And so he went through

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Speaker 2: life kind of feeling unloved, unappreciated. They didn't get the attention.

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Speaker 2: And yes, but the Lord allowed it, he allowed it

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Speaker 2: to meet Chucks Wndallen to the man he became. And

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Speaker 2: I think of David. Remember Jesse, his father. When he

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Speaker 2: was summoned by the prophet Samuel to find the next

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Speaker 2: king of Isil, he trotted out his seven sons, the

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Speaker 2: magnificent seven Q theme song here right, so, and Samuel's

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Speaker 2: looking at the Lord saying, that's not the one. That's

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Speaker 2: not the one. He sees Elia, who was the most

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Speaker 2: impressive of the lot. Hey, that's got to be the one. No,

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Speaker 2: that's not the one. Then he realizes this isn't the one.

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Speaker 2: You have any other children, and Jesse reluctantly acknowledges David.

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Speaker 2: Incomes David bounding from the field, and of course that's

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Speaker 2: the Lord's chosen. David later writes in the Psalms, and

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Speaker 2: my father and mother for seek me. The Lord will

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Speaker 2: take me up. So I think of you, I think

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Speaker 2: of myself. I think of Chuck's o'dall people that were

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Speaker 2: neglected that God chose. Yeah, and then He's gifted you

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Speaker 2: with this incredible as I listen to you speak, and

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Speaker 2: I've listened to you speak quite a few times, Christine,

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Speaker 2: and I'm so blessed by your insights and and I

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Speaker 2: love the way I don't want to see you bring

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Speaker 2: the Word of God to life, because the Word of

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Speaker 2: God brings you to life. But there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: people that manage to make the Bible boring and you're

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Speaker 2: not one of those people, thank God. And I love

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Speaker 2: how you you know, you do your theological homework, your tech,

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Speaker 2: you get, you understand, you know the context and all

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Speaker 2: the things. But then you apply and you apply with warmth,

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Speaker 2: with vulnerability, and with a lot of humor. And I

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Speaker 2: want to ask you about that because I have a

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Speaker 2: theory about that, but I want to see if it's

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Speaker 2: true of you. Did you develop this humor going back

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Speaker 2: to your childhood. Were you always kind of a person

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Speaker 2: that found humor because sometimes people find humor in the

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Speaker 2: darkest places as a coping mechanism.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think so, because how else do you

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Speaker 1: You don't even have language when you're younger. So I

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Speaker 1: found I had to find the funny side. And I

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Speaker 1: think part of that too is culturally Greeks we tend

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Speaker 1: to be like loud and funny and Australians. Australians by

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Speaker 1: and large, we don't take ourselves too seriously. That's true,

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Speaker 1: and I think so growing up in Australia, obviously being

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Speaker 1: born in Australia. I really think that's a huge part

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Speaker 1: of it. Like sometimes you look at British humor or

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Speaker 1: you know, on TV, and it's very dry and you

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Speaker 1: just don't Yeah, I love you Americans, but you take

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Speaker 1: yourselves very seriously, whereas we we just kind of, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, it's sort of that we just like have

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Speaker 1: a go, we love the underdog. We're gonna find a

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Speaker 1: funny side. I think that's all part of it. And

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Speaker 1: as you were talking then, you know, I was thinking of,

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Speaker 1: you know, doctor Swindle, and I'm thinking of the story.

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Speaker 1: In my life, I always feel like Joseph, you know,

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Speaker 1: in Genesis, chapter fifty, verse twenty, and he said to

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Speaker 1: his brothers, you meant this for evil against me. And

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Speaker 1: I've got to say to you, Pastor, every time we

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Speaker 1: put a trafficker in jail or rescue a young child

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Speaker 1: or a woman. I do think to myself, devil, I

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Speaker 1: bet you wish you left me alone, because you know

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Speaker 1: you meant this for evil. But God meant it for

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Speaker 1: this very purpose to save many people alive. And I

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Speaker 1: feel there's a redemption in it. But of course I

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Speaker 1: would never wish that on anyone. I don't wish. You know,

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Speaker 1: some people say, well, are you glad that happened to you, Christine?

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Speaker 1: Of course I'm not glad, but I no longer spend

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Speaker 1: my whole life going I wish that didn't happen. If

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Speaker 1: that didn't happen, then I would be better. Like I think,

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Speaker 1: so much of the narrative in this culture is well,

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Speaker 1: my life would be flourishing if there was no pain

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Speaker 1: or suffering in my past, And I'm going no, no.

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Speaker 1: The story of redemption is despite the pain and suffering

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Speaker 1: in my past, God literally can redeem, and what the

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Speaker 1: enemy stole, I don't feel in my life I missed anything.

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Speaker 1: So when people go, do you wish, well, I no

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Speaker 1: longer I couldn't sit here with you and go I

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Speaker 1: wish that never happened. Well, I would never wish for

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Speaker 1: it to happen. I want everyone to be clear, I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying ever abuses. Okay, I'd never wish for it

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Speaker 1: to happen, but God made meaning out of it. And

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Speaker 1: I don't truly spend one moment thinking if only that

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Speaker 1: didn't happen. I'm like, oh, no, despite what happened, look

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Speaker 1: what the Lord has done. Right, And that's the testimony

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Speaker 1: to me, that's the gospel. I thought, that's what we're

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Speaker 1: talking about this side of me to people. You know

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Speaker 1: you are Christine Kane, You're an exception. I don't, no, No,

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Speaker 1: this is called the normal Christian life. I once was broken,

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Speaker 1: Jesus saved me, delivered me. I thought that was the

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Speaker 1: message of the gospel.

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Speaker 2: Greg, Yeah, well you're like a brand plucked out of

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Speaker 2: the fire. And you know, and I think that there's

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Speaker 2: a misunderstanding of Romans eight twenty eight. I'd like to

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Speaker 2: hear your thoughts on it. But you know, we know

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Speaker 2: what it says. We know that we know that all

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Speaker 2: things work together for good, that those love God another

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Speaker 2: call according to his purpose. Now, the way sometimes it's

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Speaker 2: interpreted is no matter what happens, God won't make it

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Speaker 2: into something good. But that's not actually what the verse says.

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Speaker 2: We know God causes all things to work together for good.

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Speaker 2: As scripture says, all things are your servants. So our

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Speaker 2: son died in an automobile accident eighteen years ago. It

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Speaker 2: was the worst moment of our life. If I could

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Speaker 2: change my own history, would I change it? Yes? If

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Speaker 2: I could have my son back with me today, would

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Speaker 2: I bring him back again? Yes? Now, having said that,

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Speaker 2: do I miss him every day? Of course? Could I

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Speaker 2: say that anything good has come despite that tragedy? I

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Speaker 2: have to say yes. Would I say that it changed

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Speaker 2: me and made me perhaps more compassionate or more willing

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Speaker 2: to take steps of faith and do things that would

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Speaker 2: not have done otherwise. I would have to say yes.

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Speaker 2: And I think we've got to bring in Romans eight

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Speaker 2: twenty nine, eight twenty eight. We know that all things

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Speaker 2: work together for good. Love God verse twenty nine, for

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Speaker 2: whom he did four No, he also did predestine to

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Speaker 2: be conformed into the image of his own dear son.

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Speaker 2: So God's ultimate goal is not to give us neat, tidy,

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Speaker 2: little lives like a Hallmark special, but rather to make

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Speaker 2: us more like Jesus. What are your thoughts on Roman

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Speaker 2: d twenty.

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Speaker 1: Oh Let's I can't add anything to what you just said,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and I wish that would be amplified to

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Speaker 1: a generation because the narrative, you know, we're recording this

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six, definitely anywhere I travel, and truly

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Speaker 1: particularly here, but in many nations around the world, what

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Speaker 1: I call a victim narrative that is destroying a generation

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Speaker 1: to me, and I think even in the church, the

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Speaker 1: gospel is exactly what you just preached. It's despite that,

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Speaker 1: because I'm not looking for a prosperity gospel that says

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Speaker 1: everything this side of eternity is going to be awesome,

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Speaker 1: and God's your sugar daddy and going to give you

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Speaker 1: whatever you want and whatever you lost, He's going to

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Speaker 1: give you ten times better and it's going to be

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Speaker 1: awesome things whenever the goal, because I'm not saying abundant

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Speaker 1: life is in things. Abundant life is in Christ. So

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, despite what maybe the enemy has stolen and

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Speaker 1: the pain and the suffering which this side of eternity,

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Speaker 1: this is we live in a fallham world, that you

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Speaker 1: can still flourish and fulfill purpose. And Jesus, the miracle

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Speaker 1: is that you as a father. You know, I think

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Speaker 1: you and Kathy, that there is no greater loss of

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Speaker 1: parent could ever have than to lose a child. Of

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Speaker 1: all the unnatural things this side of eternity, that to me,

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Speaker 1: no one is supposed to bury their children. It's always

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Speaker 1: should be the other way around. So the fact that

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Speaker 1: you are living breathing testimony and Kathy, who I love

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Speaker 1: with a passion, says more about a resurrected savior than

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Speaker 1: anything else that you guys could get out of bed

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Speaker 1: every day. We let alone do everything you've done to

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Speaker 1: the glory of God and see people saved. You cannot

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Speaker 1: be a lost person and not think there has to

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Speaker 1: be a God. How else does that happen. You either

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Speaker 1: do that or you cope with how most people cope with,

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Speaker 1: which is having more of that drink or popping that

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Speaker 1: extra pill or getting divorced or whatever, because that would

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Speaker 1: be the natural repercussions of such a tragedy. So there's

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Speaker 1: got to be something supernatural. To me that doesn't make

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Speaker 1: anything worth the It says we live in a fallen

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Speaker 1: world and one day Jesus is going to come back

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Speaker 1: and renew all things, and we're trying to be a

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Speaker 1: light in the midst of that darkness. We are declaring

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Speaker 1: his praises. We're not saying everything's perfect. That doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: God's bless me. The blessing of God is I'm still

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Speaker 1: here and bearing fruit in season and out, and declaring

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Speaker 1: the word in season and out. That shows that there's

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Speaker 1: a God, a resurrected King. To me, more than a

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Speaker 1: new house or a new car, you know, it's that

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Speaker 1: there's peace, and there's the fact that you're at peace,

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Speaker 1: You've got joy. And I try to say to people

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Speaker 1: at the moment, there is such an outrage that somehow

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Speaker 1: goes If the structures right, if the system's not right,

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Speaker 1: if every if your parents didn't do everything right, no

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Speaker 1: wonder you're dysfunctional. Or if you didn't have the right schooling,

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Speaker 1: or you didn't grow up in the right neighborhood, or

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Speaker 1: you didn't have the So I could say, well, on

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Speaker 1: all fronts, you could tick every box. I was born wrong.

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Speaker 1: I was I went literally I was raised in the

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Speaker 1: poorest zip code in my state, the third poorest like

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Speaker 1: socioeconomic demographic, lowest in all of Australia. So I didn't

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Speaker 1: grow up in the right neighborhood, I didn't go to

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Speaker 1: the right school, I wasn't born into the right family,

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Speaker 1: I didn't even know my name, and I was sexually abused.

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Speaker 1: I mean, t tick tick tick tick. If I bought

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Speaker 1: into the narrative that said, because of so much injustice

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Speaker 1: and abuse and pain, you can never flourish. And Christine,

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Speaker 1: if everything was different in your past, or if you

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Speaker 1: were raised in a different neighborhood or went to a

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Speaker 1: different school, or had different parents, then only then could

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Speaker 1: you fly. That to me is its own kind of

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Speaker 1: prosperity gospel. And I'm saying that the gospel is despite

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Speaker 1: Like You've got someone like a Daniel that was literally

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Speaker 1: trafficked as a fifteen year old. I mean he was

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Speaker 1: forced labor. He was taken out of Jerusalem, had to

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Speaker 1: walk whatever four or five hundred miles or nine hundred

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Speaker 1: miles to Babylon and probably in chains as a slave.

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Speaker 1: He was a slave, and then he was indoctrinated for

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Speaker 1: all of those years and forced labor in the king's court.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we make it all sound so romantic, but

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Speaker 1: he was taken as a fifteen year old, served under

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Speaker 1: all those administrations for seventy years in exile. But he

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Speaker 1: was actually a forced labor slave, if you're looking at

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Speaker 1: it and so and yet did he fulfill his purpose? Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: And Joseph who was taken and sold into slavery and

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Speaker 1: falsely accused in a prison and sometimes I'm my point

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Speaker 1: for that is, if you're waiting for the system to

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Speaker 1: get better, to think that only then God can bless

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Speaker 1: you and you can flourish, you're not reading the right gospel,

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Speaker 1: because the gospel is that desp everything God can and

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Speaker 1: can actually give you well obviously save you and deliver you,

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Speaker 1: and you could fulfill your purpose. God's so aware of

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Speaker 1: our circumstances. So if I need my circumstances to change

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Speaker 1: to flourishing, We're not called flourishing. I'm talking about the

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Speaker 1: peace of God, the joy of the Lord being our strength,

428
00:22:27,445 --> 00:22:30,084
Speaker 1: you know, the purpose of God being fulfilled. Are we

429
00:22:30,125 --> 00:22:32,484
Speaker 1: saying Paul didn't fulfill his purpose because he was in

430
00:22:32,524 --> 00:22:35,404
Speaker 1: a prison, or because he was beaten, or because he

431
00:22:35,484 --> 00:22:38,445
Speaker 1: was shipwrecked. I mean, we could use that whole argument

432
00:22:38,484 --> 00:22:41,324
Speaker 1: and go, well, you know, because of the trauma in

433
00:22:41,405 --> 00:22:44,364
Speaker 1: his life, he couldn't fulfill his purpose. And I'm saying

434
00:22:44,445 --> 00:22:48,484
Speaker 1: despite the trauma, the testimony is he did. That's the

435
00:22:48,484 --> 00:22:53,925
Speaker 1: testimony of a resurrected king. Somehow we have almost brought

436
00:22:54,004 --> 00:22:59,845
Speaker 1: into the narrative of the world, and unfortunately we've made

437
00:22:59,885 --> 00:23:02,645
Speaker 1: what people did to us or said about us bigger

438
00:23:02,685 --> 00:23:05,044
Speaker 1: than what Jesus did for us at calvil And I

439
00:23:05,044 --> 00:23:08,965
Speaker 1: think that church, even in our preaching and teaching the

440
00:23:09,004 --> 00:23:12,605
Speaker 1: centrality of the Gospel is that I'm not minimizing pain

441
00:23:12,725 --> 00:23:16,565
Speaker 1: or suffering ever, but I am saying what Jesus did

442
00:23:16,564 --> 00:23:18,965
Speaker 1: for me at Calvary is bigger than what anyone did

443
00:23:18,965 --> 00:23:19,725
Speaker 1: to me here on earth.

444
00:23:20,284 --> 00:23:24,364
Speaker 2: Well, you know, Christine, you have a gift of evangelism. Clearly,

445
00:23:24,844 --> 00:23:27,925
Speaker 2: I think you're an evangelist. You said that yourself. Yeah,

446
00:23:27,965 --> 00:23:30,445
Speaker 2: And I don't meet a lot of evangelists, but I

447
00:23:30,524 --> 00:23:33,324
Speaker 2: know and when I meet one, and you're one, right,

448
00:23:33,405 --> 00:23:36,125
Speaker 2: you know. And some of many evangelists I know are preachers,

449
00:23:36,365 --> 00:23:40,165
Speaker 2: but also some evangelists I bet are just regular folks

450
00:23:40,205 --> 00:23:42,924
Speaker 2: working whatever job they work, but they have a gift

451
00:23:43,604 --> 00:23:46,844
Speaker 2: and a boldness to proclaim the Gospel. Clearly you have that,

452
00:23:47,365 --> 00:23:50,804
Speaker 2: and it seems to me that that's something that's lacking

453
00:23:50,885 --> 00:23:56,044
Speaker 2: in the church today. You don't see just clear evangelism,

454
00:23:56,165 --> 00:23:59,444
Speaker 2: clear opportunities for people to come to Christ. You know,

455
00:23:59,645 --> 00:24:02,084
Speaker 2: we've had people come to our crusades, and I bet

456
00:24:02,165 --> 00:24:05,244
Speaker 2: people say what you do is like so simple, it's like, yeah,

457
00:24:05,685 --> 00:24:10,765
Speaker 2: some purpose, you know, that's we did that. That's intentional actually,

458
00:24:11,205 --> 00:24:13,404
Speaker 2: because you know, I think you know this as you

459
00:24:13,484 --> 00:24:17,004
Speaker 2: travel the world, that we are in a completely biblically

460
00:24:17,084 --> 00:24:20,524
Speaker 2: illiterate culture. When I started preaching over fifty years ago,

461
00:24:20,844 --> 00:24:23,404
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say people were biblically literate, but let's just

462
00:24:23,405 --> 00:24:26,965
Speaker 2: say they knew more than they probably know now, because

463
00:24:27,445 --> 00:24:29,884
Speaker 2: you know, we if I said Adam and Eve in

464
00:24:29,925 --> 00:24:33,524
Speaker 2: the garden or Noah's Ark, they would understand what I'm

465
00:24:33,524 --> 00:24:36,884
Speaker 2: speaking of. Today, I find I have to define everything

466
00:24:36,925 --> 00:24:41,444
Speaker 2: as I speak and not assume my listener understands my terminology,

467
00:24:41,844 --> 00:24:45,004
Speaker 2: even phrases like you need to accept Christ, you need

468
00:24:45,044 --> 00:24:48,884
Speaker 2: to repent. That's great, say those things, but I don't

469
00:24:48,925 --> 00:24:51,364
Speaker 2: assume they even know what that means. Absolutely, have you

470
00:24:51,685 --> 00:24:57,205
Speaker 2: found you have to as your preaching changed more recently

471
00:24:57,284 --> 00:24:59,725
Speaker 2: than maybe the way it was back when you started out.

472
00:24:59,804 --> 00:25:02,125
Speaker 1: I think I love it you said that, because I

473
00:25:02,165 --> 00:25:05,885
Speaker 1: agree that would be My predominant gift is that Angelus,

474
00:25:06,044 --> 00:25:08,364
Speaker 1: and it undergoes everything I do. I mean, you know,

475
00:25:08,405 --> 00:25:10,725
Speaker 1: wherever I am. I know I speak at lots of conferences,

476
00:25:11,324 --> 00:25:14,445
Speaker 1: but the whole purpose, you know, an evangelist jobber.

477
00:25:14,205 --> 00:25:16,685
Speaker 2: I just want to see when you come you are like,

478
00:25:16,885 --> 00:25:19,445
Speaker 2: I don't see this of many people. You're a force

479
00:25:19,484 --> 00:25:22,324
Speaker 2: of nature in the best sense of that phrase. You're

480
00:25:22,484 --> 00:25:26,324
Speaker 2: just like you bring energy and passion and excitement. I

481
00:25:26,324 --> 00:25:30,364
Speaker 2: find that most evangelists also have a gift of exhortation. Yes,

482
00:25:30,645 --> 00:25:33,564
Speaker 2: you know, like a teacher tells you how to do it.

483
00:25:34,564 --> 00:25:37,085
Speaker 2: A person with the gift of exhortation makes you want

484
00:25:37,125 --> 00:25:39,284
Speaker 2: to do it exactly. And I think there's something about

485
00:25:39,324 --> 00:25:43,045
Speaker 2: the way you speak that people listening. I can do that.

486
00:25:43,125 --> 00:25:46,805
Speaker 2: I want to do that. So you motivate believers, but

487
00:25:46,844 --> 00:25:50,365
Speaker 2: then you clarify the gospel to non believers.

488
00:25:49,965 --> 00:25:52,284
Speaker 1: Well totally. Well, I think that's obviously you've built this

489
00:25:52,405 --> 00:25:54,684
Speaker 1: church and have all the crusades, you know, So you

490
00:25:54,804 --> 00:25:58,284
Speaker 1: think an evangelist, primarily our job is to try and

491
00:25:58,244 --> 00:25:59,325
Speaker 1: equip the saints.

492
00:25:59,125 --> 00:26:00,364
Speaker 2: To do the work of the ministrys.

493
00:26:00,604 --> 00:26:02,444
Speaker 1: Well, so that's how I know I am one because

494
00:26:02,925 --> 00:26:05,324
Speaker 1: that I'm activating even more people than I'm reaching in

495
00:26:05,324 --> 00:26:08,044
Speaker 1: that and it needs to be both together. So some

496
00:26:08,084 --> 00:26:11,924
Speaker 1: people may have a be able to give an alticle

497
00:26:12,004 --> 00:26:14,844
Speaker 1: and have a preaching gift of an evangelist, but I

498
00:26:14,885 --> 00:26:18,085
Speaker 1: think a true evangelist, no matter what we say, we're

499
00:26:18,084 --> 00:26:19,844
Speaker 1: going to make everyone want to win their friends to Christ.

500
00:26:19,885 --> 00:26:22,445
Speaker 1: Because it's just you know, we could be teaching something

501
00:26:22,484 --> 00:26:24,325
Speaker 1: out of Leviticus, and I'm going to make you want

502
00:26:24,405 --> 00:26:26,285
Speaker 1: to win your friend. It's just who we are. It's

503
00:26:26,324 --> 00:26:28,124
Speaker 1: going to come round to us. But I say that

504
00:26:28,125 --> 00:26:29,604
Speaker 1: of you. I said to my daughter as we were

505
00:26:29,685 --> 00:26:31,724
Speaker 1: driving for the interview, I said, oh, you're about to

506
00:26:31,804 --> 00:26:34,725
Speaker 1: me who I think. And she's here in the room

507
00:26:34,885 --> 00:26:39,325
Speaker 1: is probably today's greatest living evangelists. And I go, Catherine,

508
00:26:39,925 --> 00:26:42,684
Speaker 1: there's so few, truly, which is very sad because, and

509
00:26:42,725 --> 00:26:46,004
Speaker 1: I said, the most unwonted job in the church in

510
00:26:46,044 --> 00:26:49,084
Speaker 1: the twenty fist century appears to be evangelism. Either the

511
00:26:49,165 --> 00:26:52,844
Speaker 1: church itself is rolling as eyes. We embarrass people, it's like,

512
00:26:54,084 --> 00:26:57,125
Speaker 1: and I go, it's always the case. And I said,

513
00:26:57,165 --> 00:26:59,524
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, where we're not

514
00:26:59,604 --> 00:27:02,924
Speaker 1: going to compromise, I said, we are so loving and

515
00:27:02,965 --> 00:27:06,124
Speaker 1: will reach everyone. But the centrality of the of Christ,

516
00:27:06,125 --> 00:27:08,725
Speaker 1: in the exclusivity of Jesus I said, I said, you

517
00:27:08,725 --> 00:27:10,524
Speaker 1: won't see us weigh in on a whole lot more

518
00:27:10,564 --> 00:27:13,765
Speaker 1: debates out there, because things come and go and cultural

519
00:27:13,764 --> 00:27:16,365
Speaker 1: issues come and go. And I said, we love people.

520
00:27:17,324 --> 00:27:21,644
Speaker 1: And I said, but the exclusivity of Christ as the

521
00:27:21,685 --> 00:27:23,764
Speaker 1: only way to God. I said, unfortunately, that makes even

522
00:27:23,804 --> 00:27:26,085
Speaker 1: a lot of Christians in twenty twenties 're very nervous.

523
00:27:26,484 --> 00:27:28,564
Speaker 1: And I said, so what they do is cringe and

524
00:27:28,645 --> 00:27:30,124
Speaker 1: I don't like us to do that. And I go,

525
00:27:30,284 --> 00:27:32,524
Speaker 1: so we will be unapologetic, and I go, that's how

526
00:27:32,564 --> 00:27:35,445
Speaker 1: you know a real evangelist is because we won't ever

527
00:27:35,484 --> 00:27:38,804
Speaker 1: compromise on that. People will misunderstand us on everything else

528
00:27:39,084 --> 00:27:41,604
Speaker 1: and think either we're too grace filled or we're not

529
00:27:41,685 --> 00:27:43,365
Speaker 1: speaking out enough about issues.

530
00:27:43,725 --> 00:27:44,924
Speaker 2: I said, very true.

531
00:27:45,044 --> 00:27:46,405
Speaker 1: We can't win. We can't win.

532
00:27:46,484 --> 00:27:48,884
Speaker 2: We're bridge builders, you know the thing I mean, we

533
00:27:49,084 --> 00:27:51,484
Speaker 2: will stand up. You know, it's funny. We'll want to

534
00:27:51,925 --> 00:27:54,804
Speaker 2: build a bridge to a non believer, but sometimes we

535
00:27:54,885 --> 00:27:57,804
Speaker 2: confuse a believer because they don't get what we're doing.

536
00:27:57,925 --> 00:27:59,965
Speaker 2: But it's like, how can I win a person to

537
00:28:00,084 --> 00:28:02,885
Speaker 2: Christ if I don't start a conversation with totally Who

538
00:28:02,965 --> 00:28:06,004
Speaker 2: was the first evangelist in the New testament woman at

539
00:28:06,044 --> 00:28:09,244
Speaker 2: the well, how is she reached? Jesus entered her world.

540
00:28:09,564 --> 00:28:12,004
Speaker 2: He didn't condemn her, He just talked to her. Hey,

541
00:28:12,044 --> 00:28:13,524
Speaker 2: you know, if you knew who you were talking to,

542
00:28:13,564 --> 00:28:16,405
Speaker 2: you'd ask him and he'd give you water that's alive. Well,

543
00:28:16,405 --> 00:28:18,604
Speaker 2: were you going to get this water? And back and

544
00:28:18,685 --> 00:28:23,125
Speaker 2: forth they go. But immediately after she realizes he's Messiah,

545
00:28:23,244 --> 00:28:25,364
Speaker 2: she goes and tells the people in the town. And

546
00:28:25,405 --> 00:28:29,524
Speaker 2: it's interesting because it says many believe because of her testimony,

547
00:28:29,645 --> 00:28:33,484
Speaker 2: because they knew her. She had a reputation, she was married,

548
00:28:33,524 --> 00:28:35,565
Speaker 2: a divorce five times, I was living with the dude,

549
00:28:36,004 --> 00:28:39,644
Speaker 2: the Mochian counter Christ. But I think, well, we know

550
00:28:39,765 --> 00:28:42,604
Speaker 2: that lady. We know they probably didn't call her a lady.

551
00:28:42,844 --> 00:28:46,125
Speaker 2: We know that girl, we know a reputation. If she believes,

552
00:28:46,125 --> 00:28:48,565
Speaker 2: there has to be something to this, so you know,

553
00:28:48,805 --> 00:28:51,565
Speaker 2: it's interesting she went with that passion. And I'm not

554
00:28:51,645 --> 00:28:53,645
Speaker 2: saying her like the woman at the well, but I'm saying,

555
00:28:53,885 --> 00:28:57,325
Speaker 2: you understand, as an evangelist, you have to build a bridge.

556
00:28:57,805 --> 00:29:01,445
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no other way. I think. I mean, dozens

557
00:29:01,485 --> 00:29:03,725
Speaker 1: of countries every year, so you know, and I've preached

558
00:29:03,725 --> 00:29:07,005
Speaker 1: in Pakistan, I could go on and and done evangelistic

559
00:29:07,084 --> 00:29:09,885
Speaker 1: big events like you know, you just had a couple

560
00:29:09,925 --> 00:29:13,125
Speaker 1: of weeks ago here int Anaheim. And so we were

561
00:29:13,205 --> 00:29:16,285
Speaker 1: eighty five thousand people in Pakistan. And so imagine I'm

562
00:29:16,325 --> 00:29:19,765
Speaker 1: a woman and I'm wearing the appropriate dress because I'm there,

563
00:29:20,205 --> 00:29:22,645
Speaker 1: and the same in Katatoo, and I'm wearing the appropriate

564
00:29:22,725 --> 00:29:27,445
Speaker 1: dress and publicly outdoor proclaiming the gospel. And I believe

565
00:29:27,445 --> 00:29:29,485
Speaker 1: that's why the Lord's allowed my story to go around

566
00:29:29,525 --> 00:29:29,844
Speaker 1: the world.

567
00:29:29,844 --> 00:29:32,565
Speaker 2: Because do you usually start with your story?

568
00:29:32,685 --> 00:29:34,525
Speaker 1: Yes, especially in an evangelist.

569
00:29:36,045 --> 00:29:38,805
Speaker 2: Is a great order to a great thinker, a great intellect.

570
00:29:39,005 --> 00:29:41,364
Speaker 2: But almost always, he said, let me tell you by

571
00:29:41,445 --> 00:29:43,045
Speaker 2: what happened to me at the Damasca stroke.

572
00:29:43,165 --> 00:29:45,605
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you've got a bridge here. You connect with where

573
00:29:45,645 --> 00:29:48,565
Speaker 1: they are. And I'm always greg And this is why

574
00:29:48,604 --> 00:29:50,965
Speaker 1: people like us will always be misunderstood. It doesn't matter

575
00:29:51,005 --> 00:29:54,205
Speaker 1: how theologically trained we may be, because we are always

576
00:29:54,245 --> 00:29:56,164
Speaker 1: going to try to minister to the back row. We

577
00:29:56,245 --> 00:29:58,045
Speaker 1: are not going to try to impress the front row.

578
00:29:58,205 --> 00:30:00,485
Speaker 1: Very true, and so I think when people like I

579
00:30:00,565 --> 00:30:02,444
Speaker 1: want to be a great preacher, I'm trying to impress

580
00:30:02,445 --> 00:30:04,685
Speaker 1: the front row. I'm like you already know the Gospel.

581
00:30:04,885 --> 00:30:08,445
Speaker 1: I'm trying to that person that's just come in and

582
00:30:08,645 --> 00:30:11,204
Speaker 1: has either you know, doesn't know who she woke up

583
00:30:11,205 --> 00:30:14,005
Speaker 1: next to the day before the night before. I'm going

584
00:30:14,325 --> 00:30:16,125
Speaker 1: I want her to know the love and the grace

585
00:30:16,165 --> 00:30:18,645
Speaker 1: of God, like the Samaritan woman who actually went back

586
00:30:18,645 --> 00:30:21,164
Speaker 1: and said to the guys in a village, let me

587
00:30:21,205 --> 00:30:23,445
Speaker 1: tell you about a man who told me everything I've

588
00:30:23,485 --> 00:30:26,684
Speaker 1: ever done. So the Gospel doesn't shame, but it shines

589
00:30:26,685 --> 00:30:30,404
Speaker 1: a light. He's telling me everything and there's forgiven me,

590
00:30:30,485 --> 00:30:32,924
Speaker 1: like there's not this shame that comes with it. And

591
00:30:32,965 --> 00:30:34,885
Speaker 1: I think a lot of our preaching it's so shame

592
00:30:34,965 --> 00:30:39,725
Speaker 1: driven because it's not true gospel evangelism, which isn't going

593
00:30:39,805 --> 00:30:43,165
Speaker 1: to shame someone into a decision. It's gonna awake a while,

594
00:30:43,165 --> 00:30:45,525
Speaker 1: and the Holy Spirit can do it this life. I

595
00:30:45,565 --> 00:30:49,325
Speaker 1: can number one, I need forgiveness, yes, and I can't

596
00:30:49,325 --> 00:30:51,525
Speaker 1: awaken that in someone. Only the Holy Spirit of God

597
00:30:51,565 --> 00:30:53,404
Speaker 1: can do that. But if you preach the Word faithfully,

598
00:30:53,565 --> 00:30:56,084
Speaker 1: God will do that. So I think a lot of

599
00:30:56,125 --> 00:30:58,605
Speaker 1: times is we've so forgotten the last or we think

600
00:30:58,765 --> 00:31:01,645
Speaker 1: accommodating the lost and becoming like the lost is how

601
00:31:01,645 --> 00:31:03,805
Speaker 1: you win the lost and you know people will offer

602
00:31:03,844 --> 00:31:05,965
Speaker 1: say to me, I can't believe how many people get

603
00:31:05,965 --> 00:31:10,644
Speaker 1: saved because Chris, you're like unapologetic. I know, I'm so

604
00:31:10,844 --> 00:31:14,485
Speaker 1: hardcoret in love, like, but I'm in it but not

605
00:31:14,645 --> 00:31:17,645
Speaker 1: of it. So what has happened to the other side

606
00:31:17,645 --> 00:31:19,404
Speaker 1: of the church? Is there of it but not in it?

607
00:31:19,965 --> 00:31:22,645
Speaker 1: And so it's like we're exactly the same values as

608
00:31:22,685 --> 00:31:26,445
Speaker 1: the world and performance indicators as the world, in fact,

609
00:31:26,604 --> 00:31:28,685
Speaker 1: doing a whole lot of things as the world, except

610
00:31:28,685 --> 00:31:32,365
Speaker 1: we're not in the world making a difference. But to truly,

611
00:31:33,365 --> 00:31:35,565
Speaker 1: you know, to truly see the light go on in

612
00:31:35,604 --> 00:31:37,844
Speaker 1: the dark places, Number one, you've got to be in

613
00:31:37,885 --> 00:31:39,885
Speaker 1: the dark places. So you've got to go where people

614
00:31:39,885 --> 00:31:44,045
Speaker 1: are unwilling to go. They don't know what job is,

615
00:31:44,165 --> 00:31:47,005
Speaker 1: or what job is, or what you know they would know.

616
00:31:47,965 --> 00:31:51,164
Speaker 1: So me giving, you know, an exegetical sermon on the

617
00:31:51,205 --> 00:31:55,445
Speaker 1: levitical priestthood is not really going to reach them.

618
00:31:55,765 --> 00:31:57,885
Speaker 2: I would like to hear it anyway, because I think.

619
00:31:57,725 --> 00:32:00,604
Speaker 1: You might be able to turn it around. I find

620
00:32:00,604 --> 00:32:03,005
Speaker 1: a way I had to do the other day church,

621
00:32:03,405 --> 00:32:06,164
Speaker 1: the Daughters of Zelophah had at numbers twenty six thirty

622
00:32:06,165 --> 00:32:09,884
Speaker 1: six turned that into the greatest evangelistic servant. I'm going

623
00:32:09,925 --> 00:32:11,925
Speaker 1: to take that on the road anyway. I'm just say, like, truly,

624
00:32:11,925 --> 00:32:15,525
Speaker 1: who would have thought those five daughters? But I say

625
00:32:15,565 --> 00:32:18,845
Speaker 1: all that to go. Of course, I'm looking at every

626
00:32:18,885 --> 00:32:23,005
Speaker 1: text through the lens of Christ and have risen ascended

627
00:32:23,084 --> 00:32:26,364
Speaker 1: Christ that's coming back again. I take very seriously. And

628
00:32:26,805 --> 00:32:30,165
Speaker 1: you know, people talk about how we look at the text.

629
00:32:30,645 --> 00:32:33,165
Speaker 1: I truly understand that we're living between the two advents

630
00:32:33,165 --> 00:32:38,045
Speaker 1: of Christ. So every church era, where do they where

631
00:32:38,084 --> 00:32:42,084
Speaker 1: are we located on the Kingdom calendar. Well, Jesus obviously

632
00:32:42,165 --> 00:32:44,964
Speaker 1: has you know, risen and ascended, seeing at the right

633
00:32:44,965 --> 00:32:48,125
Speaker 1: hand of the Father. He's coming back. So my job

634
00:32:48,965 --> 00:32:51,725
Speaker 1: is to point towards the fact that he's coming back,

635
00:32:51,844 --> 00:32:55,124
Speaker 1: not in a weird way that's going to cause people

636
00:32:55,125 --> 00:32:58,685
Speaker 1: to abdicate their responsibility here on earth. And I've proven

637
00:32:58,725 --> 00:33:01,485
Speaker 1: that I'm sixty years old. We've run a global anti

638
00:33:01,525 --> 00:33:05,844
Speaker 1: trafficking organization, extremely influential and effective by the Race of

639
00:33:05,844 --> 00:33:10,924
Speaker 1: God around the world, worked with major governments all across

640
00:33:10,965 --> 00:33:14,565
Speaker 1: the world. So I'm busy here on Earth. I'm trying

641
00:33:14,565 --> 00:33:16,604
Speaker 1: to bring a taste of Heaven to Earth. It hasn't

642
00:33:16,604 --> 00:33:17,245
Speaker 1: made me well that does.

643
00:33:17,285 --> 00:33:19,765
Speaker 2: I think the most of the next life, do the most,

644
00:33:19,445 --> 00:33:21,884
Speaker 2: And that's the thing. And so what you're saying is

645
00:33:22,165 --> 00:33:25,525
Speaker 2: I'm doing things to help people to get them, you know,

646
00:33:25,765 --> 00:33:29,805
Speaker 2: have transformation of their life. However, I believe Jesus is coming.

647
00:33:29,844 --> 00:33:32,685
Speaker 2: So I'm not, you know, out of touch with the reality.

648
00:33:33,125 --> 00:33:36,685
Speaker 2: But I think this is important because this is a teaching,

649
00:33:37,525 --> 00:33:41,765
Speaker 2: uh sometimes called eschatology that has kind of fallen out

650
00:33:41,765 --> 00:33:44,325
Speaker 2: of favor in the church today. And when I first

651
00:33:44,405 --> 00:33:47,404
Speaker 2: came to Christ during the Jesus Movement in the seventies,

652
00:33:48,005 --> 00:33:50,884
Speaker 2: you heard a lot of messages Jesus is coming. We

653
00:33:50,965 --> 00:33:54,404
Speaker 2: had bumper stickers on our car, Jesus is coming, or

654
00:33:54,565 --> 00:33:57,525
Speaker 2: in case of rapture, car will be unmanned. You know.

655
00:33:57,844 --> 00:33:59,885
Speaker 2: But you know, and so we looked with us fifty

656
00:33:59,965 --> 00:34:02,884
Speaker 2: years ago. You guys missed it. Well, okay, but you

657
00:34:02,885 --> 00:34:05,924
Speaker 2: know we're fifty years closer. What do we say supposed

658
00:34:05,965 --> 00:34:09,245
Speaker 2: to do? You know? Jesus keep parables about that, but

659
00:34:09,405 --> 00:34:13,125
Speaker 2: occupied till they come, be busy until they come, be

660
00:34:13,285 --> 00:34:15,805
Speaker 2: doing the work of the Lord until they come. That

661
00:34:15,845 --> 00:34:17,405
Speaker 2: seems to motivate you as well.

662
00:34:17,485 --> 00:34:20,445
Speaker 1: Well, totally, I'm in Paul right, be steadfast, immovable, always

663
00:34:20,485 --> 00:34:22,045
Speaker 1: abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in

664
00:34:22,045 --> 00:34:24,885
Speaker 1: the Lord your labor is never in vain. So I'm like,

665
00:34:25,885 --> 00:34:28,725
Speaker 1: of course that's what I'm going to do. But anyone

666
00:34:28,725 --> 00:34:33,285
Speaker 1: that is sort of cynical about eschatological teaching, I'm like, truly,

667
00:34:33,445 --> 00:34:35,525
Speaker 1: Jesus didn't seem to have a problem with you know,

668
00:34:35,565 --> 00:34:39,364
Speaker 1: he's got his discourses Paul in first and Second Thessalonians,

669
00:34:39,405 --> 00:34:42,364
Speaker 1: the whole Book of Revelation. I'm like, I'd say there's

670
00:34:42,365 --> 00:34:44,765
Speaker 1: a fair chunk of the New Testament that's very geared

671
00:34:44,885 --> 00:34:49,085
Speaker 1: towards that, and you can't deny it. And I'm not

672
00:34:49,245 --> 00:34:52,125
Speaker 1: saying people that say you're so heavenly minded you're no

673
00:34:52,205 --> 00:34:54,565
Speaker 1: earthly good, Well then you're not really heavenly minded.

674
00:34:54,765 --> 00:34:57,005
Speaker 2: Well, I know people are so earthing, then maybe they're

675
00:34:57,045 --> 00:34:58,325
Speaker 2: not heaven And that's the.

676
00:34:58,365 --> 00:35:00,765
Speaker 1: I think that's the flip side of this generation, is

677
00:35:00,805 --> 00:35:05,005
Speaker 1: that we somehow think and now you're really getting into

678
00:35:05,165 --> 00:35:08,045
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking. I think, you know, when the Reformation happened,

679
00:35:08,485 --> 00:35:12,045
Speaker 1: and Luther's like, hang on a minute, good works can't

680
00:35:12,085 --> 00:35:14,885
Speaker 1: save you, you know, and indulgences aren't going to save you.

681
00:35:16,445 --> 00:35:19,005
Speaker 1: I think now, especially in the last decade or so,

682
00:35:19,565 --> 00:35:22,205
Speaker 1: we're sort of replacing one good work. If I can

683
00:35:22,245 --> 00:35:26,365
Speaker 1: do enough good works, especially ones that are very socially acceptable.

684
00:35:26,685 --> 00:35:28,605
Speaker 1: If I can do that's what's going to save me

685
00:35:28,845 --> 00:35:32,845
Speaker 1: enough social you know, justice see good works. And I'm like,

686
00:35:33,485 --> 00:35:35,765
Speaker 1: y're if you think it's all going to get fixed

687
00:35:35,765 --> 00:35:37,685
Speaker 1: before Jesus got there'd be no reason for him to

688
00:35:37,685 --> 00:35:39,765
Speaker 1: come back. That guy he's going to split. He is

689
00:35:39,805 --> 00:35:42,125
Speaker 1: coming back, however you think that's going to happen, okay,

690
00:35:42,165 --> 00:35:44,765
Speaker 1: but he is coming back to renew all things, and

691
00:35:45,645 --> 00:35:48,325
Speaker 1: there is a judgment that is coming. Like, I don't

692
00:35:48,365 --> 00:35:50,005
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say to you. It's in

693
00:35:50,045 --> 00:35:54,165
Speaker 1: the books, So you thinking me not saying it because

694
00:35:54,205 --> 00:35:56,765
Speaker 1: you're all worried that well for fifty years ago, you'll

695
00:35:56,805 --> 00:35:59,485
Speaker 1: try to scare people into heaven. And you know the

696
00:35:59,605 --> 00:36:02,325
Speaker 1: if you the bus the youth camp story, you know

697
00:36:02,445 --> 00:36:05,605
Speaker 1: the bus hit a wall on the way home and

698
00:36:05,605 --> 00:36:07,845
Speaker 1: everyone died. Are you ready to meet Jesus? That's not

699
00:36:07,845 --> 00:36:10,525
Speaker 1: a bad question to us people. I go, so, I

700
00:36:10,565 --> 00:36:12,884
Speaker 1: don't know, why are you being cynical? So I think

701
00:36:12,885 --> 00:36:16,445
Speaker 1: what some people have taken is a few things that

702
00:36:16,525 --> 00:36:20,364
Speaker 1: perhaps in themselves maybe didn't resonate with them, or they

703
00:36:20,365 --> 00:36:23,565
Speaker 1: feel hurt them in evangelical culture and want to throw

704
00:36:23,605 --> 00:36:25,725
Speaker 1: the baby out with the bathwater. And I'm like, y'all,

705
00:36:26,405 --> 00:36:29,205
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean these things are not true. Will for

706
00:36:29,325 --> 00:36:31,365
Speaker 1: every man has it been destined to die once and

707
00:36:31,405 --> 00:36:33,565
Speaker 1: then the judgment. I didn't write that the writer to

708
00:36:33,605 --> 00:36:36,725
Speaker 1: the Hebrews. It's in the scripture that we will stand

709
00:36:36,765 --> 00:36:39,125
Speaker 1: before the judgment throne of Christ. It will happen, and

710
00:36:39,165 --> 00:36:42,645
Speaker 1: will we give an account, even us that are saved

711
00:36:42,765 --> 00:36:46,685
Speaker 1: for our life here on earth. Yes are their eternal rewards? Yes?

712
00:36:46,965 --> 00:36:50,965
Speaker 1: Do you want of you? Perhaps so me not talking

713
00:36:51,005 --> 00:36:56,205
Speaker 1: about it because some people, you know, were erran us

714
00:36:56,205 --> 00:36:58,005
Speaker 1: in their teaching. Well, you could go throughout all of

715
00:36:58,085 --> 00:37:00,605
Speaker 1: church history. I go at different times in church history

716
00:37:00,805 --> 00:37:03,445
Speaker 1: there was different emphasis that were right, wrong or indifferent.

717
00:37:03,925 --> 00:37:06,685
Speaker 1: But if we're preaching, are teaching the whole Council of

718
00:37:06,725 --> 00:37:10,125
Speaker 1: God for us that are living this side of the

719
00:37:10,165 --> 00:37:13,925
Speaker 1: cross and pointing people towards Jesus, I'd say we order

720
00:37:14,005 --> 00:37:19,405
Speaker 1: focus there. And churches and leaders that are scared to

721
00:37:19,445 --> 00:37:22,844
Speaker 1: do that either because of the backlash to what sort

722
00:37:22,885 --> 00:37:26,245
Speaker 1: of has happened in Evangelicalism are doing it. I'm not sure.

723
00:37:26,285 --> 00:37:29,844
Speaker 1: Then we can say we really love people. Here's the deal.

724
00:37:29,925 --> 00:37:32,645
Speaker 1: I've drunk the kool aid. I believe it. And so

725
00:37:33,565 --> 00:37:36,125
Speaker 1: I remember once in Australia before we moved to America,

726
00:37:36,285 --> 00:37:41,125
Speaker 1: there was a major convention of a particular denomination and

727
00:37:41,165 --> 00:37:45,245
Speaker 1: the convention center was full, and Australia's most famous atheist,

728
00:37:45,325 --> 00:37:48,445
Speaker 1: and he was a writer in the newspaper The Australian,

729
00:37:49,005 --> 00:37:52,805
Speaker 1: and everybody would know his name, most famous atheists in Australia.

730
00:37:53,445 --> 00:37:56,285
Speaker 1: Very intelligent, like on all the TV shows, you know

731
00:37:56,285 --> 00:37:59,805
Speaker 1: all that. Very smart. But he stood up, he came.

732
00:37:59,845 --> 00:38:01,965
Speaker 1: They invited him to the conference for a special sort

733
00:38:01,965 --> 00:38:04,245
Speaker 1: of Q and a thing. But he said to all

734
00:38:04,285 --> 00:38:07,245
Speaker 1: the pastors in that room in christ saying this, he

735
00:38:07,325 --> 00:38:12,005
Speaker 1: goes one of the main reasons that I've not yet.

736
00:38:13,365 --> 00:38:15,285
Speaker 1: He didn't say converted, but he said, why I don't

737
00:38:15,325 --> 00:38:19,045
Speaker 1: really believe what you're all talking about? He said, because

738
00:38:19,045 --> 00:38:21,005
Speaker 1: I don't think you really believe it. Because if you

739
00:38:21,165 --> 00:38:24,845
Speaker 1: believed what you tell me, you believe about this resurrected

740
00:38:24,925 --> 00:38:28,165
Speaker 1: Jesus that's supposed to be coming back again, I wouldn't

741
00:38:28,165 --> 00:38:30,005
Speaker 1: be living how you're living. There would be a whole

742
00:38:30,005 --> 00:38:32,205
Speaker 1: different urgency, but the fact. And he literally said that.

743
00:38:32,485 --> 00:38:35,245
Speaker 1: It was like a mic drop in this arena of

744
00:38:35,365 --> 00:38:38,805
Speaker 1: pastors because he said, no, I don't really believe it,

745
00:38:38,805 --> 00:38:41,645
Speaker 1: because I don't think you believe it, and so wow,

746
00:38:42,045 --> 00:38:44,404
Speaker 1: I could be wrong, but at least you go, well,

747
00:38:44,445 --> 00:38:48,525
Speaker 1: she was sincerely wrong. She sincerely drank the kool aid.

748
00:38:48,565 --> 00:38:51,005
Speaker 1: And believe that there is a heaven, there is a hell,

749
00:38:51,485 --> 00:38:53,885
Speaker 1: that Jesus did die for our sins on the cross,

750
00:38:53,925 --> 00:38:56,485
Speaker 1: and that Jesus was buried and he rose again, and

751
00:38:56,525 --> 00:38:58,844
Speaker 1: he ascended and he is seated at the right hand

752
00:38:58,885 --> 00:39:01,085
Speaker 1: the Father, and he is coming back. We will give

753
00:39:01,085 --> 00:39:03,885
Speaker 1: an account for our life. I actually really believe that stuff.

754
00:39:04,125 --> 00:39:07,565
Speaker 1: And it's not like I'm trying to scare anyone into it.

755
00:39:08,085 --> 00:39:10,645
Speaker 1: I love them so much. Yeah, I want them to

756
00:39:10,725 --> 00:39:11,205
Speaker 1: go to heaven.

757
00:39:11,365 --> 00:39:11,765
Speaker 2: That's right.

758
00:39:11,805 --> 00:39:14,605
Speaker 1: Well, and people say, Chris, that's old school. I used

759
00:39:14,605 --> 00:39:15,805
Speaker 1: to think that was the gospel grade.

760
00:39:15,885 --> 00:39:19,445
Speaker 2: Yea, yeah, old school. You know. In first Jime, he

761
00:39:19,565 --> 00:39:21,365
Speaker 2: that has this hope, that is the hope of the

762
00:39:21,405 --> 00:39:25,285
Speaker 2: Lord's return, purifies himself even as he is spirit. So

763
00:39:25,365 --> 00:39:27,805
Speaker 2: I think if we're walking with God sort of like

764
00:39:27,925 --> 00:39:30,325
Speaker 2: when we were kids. You know, maybe we get in

765
00:39:30,405 --> 00:39:32,845
Speaker 2: trouble and our mother would warn us, just wait to

766
00:39:32,925 --> 00:39:35,765
Speaker 2: your father get some so we lived in fear until

767
00:39:35,805 --> 00:39:38,485
Speaker 2: he got there. But if we're good little boys and

768
00:39:38,485 --> 00:39:40,645
Speaker 2: girls and didn't do anything wrong, we couldn't wait for

769
00:39:40,725 --> 00:39:42,525
Speaker 2: daddy to get home. Chris, I didn't have a daddy.

770
00:39:42,565 --> 00:39:45,645
Speaker 2: I'm just trying this analogy, you know. So I think

771
00:39:45,685 --> 00:39:48,325
Speaker 2: if we're walking with God, we look forward to us

772
00:39:48,325 --> 00:39:52,085
Speaker 2: return and like John, we say even so coming with Jesus.

773
00:39:52,405 --> 00:39:55,325
Speaker 2: But if we are like, oh, I don't know, you know,

774
00:39:55,165 --> 00:39:57,964
Speaker 2: you know, I don't you know because you're living wrong,

775
00:39:58,045 --> 00:40:00,445
Speaker 2: or maybe I didn't want to talk about that, that

776
00:40:00,565 --> 00:40:03,365
Speaker 2: give me almost a litmus test of where you're at spiritually.

777
00:40:03,525 --> 00:40:06,404
Speaker 2: I agree, you know, so we should focused on that again.

778
00:40:06,445 --> 00:40:09,285
Speaker 2: So let me shift gears. I don't even really need

779
00:40:09,325 --> 00:40:11,765
Speaker 2: to follow any questions. You're someone just seeing it easy

780
00:40:11,845 --> 00:40:14,565
Speaker 2: to talk to. But what is the hardest prayer you've

781
00:40:14,565 --> 00:40:15,205
Speaker 2: ever prayed?

782
00:40:18,045 --> 00:40:22,725
Speaker 1: You know? There came a point, I think somewhere around

783
00:40:22,725 --> 00:40:28,445
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, it was just obviously we're we're

784
00:40:28,445 --> 00:40:30,165
Speaker 1: on the front line when you think of sort of

785
00:40:30,765 --> 00:40:32,965
Speaker 1: you know, rescuing the victims, of human trafficking. You're you're

786
00:40:33,005 --> 00:40:35,525
Speaker 1: in darkness. For people that say they don't believe in

787
00:40:36,165 --> 00:40:36,725
Speaker 1: that there is a.

788
00:40:36,685 --> 00:40:41,645
Speaker 3: Devil, all this is your organization. We've referenced Yes twenty one. Yes,

789
00:40:41,645 --> 00:40:44,605
Speaker 3: and you have offices all around the world, around the world. Yeah,

790
00:40:44,885 --> 00:40:48,285
Speaker 3: and the mission of A twenty one is what.

791
00:40:48,285 --> 00:40:51,765
Speaker 1: Exactly well in a thing is to abolish slavery everywhere forever.

792
00:40:51,845 --> 00:40:56,685
Speaker 1: But it's we rescue the victims, we restore survivors, and

793
00:40:56,725 --> 00:40:59,085
Speaker 1: we do prevention and awareness. So now we just had

794
00:40:59,085 --> 00:41:01,205
Speaker 1: the World Cups, so a lot of the ads and

795
00:41:01,245 --> 00:41:04,525
Speaker 1: billboards that you've seen airports all around the world that

796
00:41:04,565 --> 00:41:07,125
Speaker 1: have been running with FIFA, we helped train a lot

797
00:41:07,165 --> 00:41:09,525
Speaker 1: of the stuff. We do a lot of prevention awareness,

798
00:41:09,725 --> 00:41:12,325
Speaker 1: We make films that help people realize stuff. And we

799
00:41:12,365 --> 00:41:16,885
Speaker 1: also have you know, after care facilities for the survivors

800
00:41:16,885 --> 00:41:19,005
Speaker 1: of traffickers, and we work with law enforcement around the

801
00:41:19,045 --> 00:41:23,285
Speaker 1: world to catch the perpetrators and then represent them legally.

802
00:41:23,325 --> 00:41:26,565
Speaker 1: So it's a holistic the whole thing. And so in

803
00:41:26,645 --> 00:41:30,405
Speaker 1: all of that, I always say, if you don't believe

804
00:41:30,485 --> 00:41:32,645
Speaker 1: that there is a devil and that there's evil, come

805
00:41:32,685 --> 00:41:34,565
Speaker 1: and work with me for one day and you'll very

806
00:41:34,645 --> 00:41:38,165
Speaker 1: quickly realize that there is evil on the earth. But

807
00:41:38,365 --> 00:41:41,325
Speaker 1: I remember that it was just this bombardment and I

808
00:41:41,325 --> 00:41:44,485
Speaker 1: couldn't catch a breath, and you know, just there was

809
00:41:44,525 --> 00:41:48,365
Speaker 1: a lot of disappointment and I felt, you know, just

810
00:41:48,965 --> 00:41:51,805
Speaker 1: a lot of attack. And I remember one night this

811
00:41:51,965 --> 00:41:55,485
Speaker 1: all gets to the hardest prayer. I came home and

812
00:41:55,645 --> 00:42:00,805
Speaker 1: nick my husband to relax. My husband watches shows like

813
00:42:01,765 --> 00:42:05,005
Speaker 1: movies on the Navy seals, and there was this with

814
00:42:05,045 --> 00:42:06,925
Speaker 1: each on. He just sits there and watches this stuff.

815
00:42:07,205 --> 00:42:10,765
Speaker 1: And I didn't know, of course, not being American, I

816
00:42:10,885 --> 00:42:13,845
Speaker 1: didn't know that there was this thing called Hell Week.

817
00:42:14,005 --> 00:42:16,965
Speaker 1: And okay, You're like, okay, So I come home, he's

818
00:42:17,005 --> 00:42:19,645
Speaker 1: watching this series called Hell Week. I'm thinking, like, what

819
00:42:19,725 --> 00:42:24,884
Speaker 1: is this? And then I was devastated. My female side

820
00:42:24,885 --> 00:42:26,884
Speaker 1: came on because I felt sorry for all these guys

821
00:42:26,925 --> 00:42:29,485
Speaker 1: because the whole purpose of hell Week is to break

822
00:42:29,525 --> 00:42:35,045
Speaker 1: them down emotionally, psychological. These guys don't sleep. The men

823
00:42:35,125 --> 00:42:38,005
Speaker 1: in charge are yelling at them like they're nothing. And

824
00:42:38,325 --> 00:42:41,725
Speaker 1: I didn't realize the whole goal was to ring the

825
00:42:41,725 --> 00:42:44,645
Speaker 1: bell in the middle of the so that if you're

826
00:42:44,645 --> 00:42:48,085
Speaker 1: going to break, break here, not out there. So okay.

827
00:42:48,365 --> 00:42:51,165
Speaker 1: So I'm like thinking they're very mean people. But anyway,

828
00:42:51,245 --> 00:42:53,964
Speaker 1: so my husband's like loving it. There was this one

829
00:42:54,525 --> 00:42:57,885
Speaker 1: scene where the guys jump out of the helicopter. I

830
00:42:57,925 --> 00:42:59,925
Speaker 1: think it was shot down here in San Diego. They

831
00:43:00,005 --> 00:43:01,805
Speaker 1: jump out of the helicopter. They have to swim like

832
00:43:01,845 --> 00:43:05,405
Speaker 1: a mile to shore and then they do their stuff.

833
00:43:05,605 --> 00:43:09,005
Speaker 1: But remember they haven't slept for a week, all the things.

834
00:43:09,045 --> 00:43:11,725
Speaker 1: And I remember this one thing that guy jumped out

835
00:43:11,965 --> 00:43:14,525
Speaker 1: and I started crying. And my husband goes Christine, like,

836
00:43:14,645 --> 00:43:16,765
Speaker 1: it's so rare that I would jump. I would cry

837
00:43:16,845 --> 00:43:18,965
Speaker 1: for a man jumping out of a helicopter. But I

838
00:43:18,965 --> 00:43:21,085
Speaker 1: said to me, you know, honey, I said, this is

839
00:43:21,125 --> 00:43:23,685
Speaker 1: how I think I feel. And by this stage, we've

840
00:43:23,725 --> 00:43:27,725
Speaker 1: been you know, I've been going since nineteen ninety full

841
00:43:27,765 --> 00:43:32,205
Speaker 1: time vocational ministry, and this was just a and it

842
00:43:32,245 --> 00:43:34,364
Speaker 1: was a crazy season anyway in the world at that time.

843
00:43:34,445 --> 00:43:37,325
Speaker 1: So you're running a global organization. There's so much going on.

844
00:43:38,165 --> 00:43:43,525
Speaker 1: And I said to him, I feel like that the

845
00:43:43,525 --> 00:43:46,965
Speaker 1: Lord's like, Okay, let's launch another mission, kind of another assignment,

846
00:43:47,005 --> 00:43:48,725
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. It could be with your kids,

847
00:43:48,725 --> 00:43:51,125
Speaker 1: it could be in any realm of life, and I said,

848
00:43:51,165 --> 00:43:53,805
Speaker 1: I know I can do it. I've got the muscle memory,

849
00:43:53,965 --> 00:43:56,965
Speaker 1: I've got the strength, I said, but for the first

850
00:43:56,965 --> 00:43:59,005
Speaker 1: time in my Christian life. And I think at that

851
00:43:59,005 --> 00:44:01,805
Speaker 1: point it was thirty plus years, you know, thirty eight years,

852
00:44:02,485 --> 00:44:05,165
Speaker 1: I said, I I don't know if I want to

853
00:44:05,965 --> 00:44:08,845
Speaker 1: because I know the cost, the difference. I go. You know,

854
00:44:08,925 --> 00:44:11,884
Speaker 1: when you're younger, you're like God, here I am, send me,

855
00:44:11,965 --> 00:44:15,165
Speaker 1: I'll go anywhere. I'll do anything, and then you increasingly

856
00:44:15,245 --> 00:44:19,965
Speaker 1: know the pain involved with each with each Yes, that's

857
00:44:20,005 --> 00:44:21,805
Speaker 1: the thing is I think when you're young and people say,

858
00:44:22,045 --> 00:44:23,565
Speaker 1: I just want to be a famous Christian, I want

859
00:44:23,565 --> 00:44:26,685
Speaker 1: to be a big you know, YouTube influencer. And I'm thinking,

860
00:44:26,805 --> 00:44:29,205
Speaker 1: you have no idea if you truly believe in spiritual

861
00:44:29,205 --> 00:44:32,245
Speaker 1: warfare and what's coming at you, if you're trying to

862
00:44:32,245 --> 00:44:34,685
Speaker 1: advance the Kingdom of God. And I said, I don't

863
00:44:34,685 --> 00:44:36,405
Speaker 1: know if I want to. And when you say the

864
00:44:36,445 --> 00:44:43,005
Speaker 1: hardest prayer it was that night with Nick deeply pavel

865
00:44:43,045 --> 00:44:46,165
Speaker 1: but the prayer of saying, help me to want to

866
00:44:46,725 --> 00:44:48,605
Speaker 1: get like to get my want back for want of

867
00:44:48,645 --> 00:44:52,325
Speaker 1: a better word, and you know we prayed, and you

868
00:44:52,365 --> 00:44:54,805
Speaker 1: know I'm loving you like here I am eight years later,

869
00:44:54,845 --> 00:44:57,045
Speaker 1: sitting here with you, still for a fire, still not

870
00:44:57,405 --> 00:44:59,364
Speaker 1: but I think that would be the closest day ever came.

871
00:44:59,725 --> 00:45:01,685
Speaker 1: And I said to him, you know, as long as

872
00:45:01,765 --> 00:45:04,444
Speaker 1: I don't do anything dramatic, you know, if I don't

873
00:45:05,165 --> 00:45:09,165
Speaker 1: have an sort of immoral immoral commit immorality or you know,

874
00:45:09,405 --> 00:45:11,325
Speaker 1: steal the money, or if I don't do anything big,

875
00:45:11,925 --> 00:45:16,565
Speaker 1: there's enough momentum with thirty odd years of ministry that

876
00:45:16,645 --> 00:45:20,085
Speaker 1: I could just cruise my way into heaven. Don't commit

877
00:45:20,165 --> 00:45:22,565
Speaker 1: any of the big sins and just cruise and I go,

878
00:45:23,045 --> 00:45:25,725
Speaker 1: and no one would ever know because they think, Chris,

879
00:45:25,765 --> 00:45:27,765
Speaker 1: you did so well all these years. You know, look

880
00:45:27,765 --> 00:45:30,405
Speaker 1: what you've done. And I've started crying. And this is

881
00:45:30,445 --> 00:45:33,965
Speaker 1: where I knew God was working. And it was just

882
00:45:34,045 --> 00:45:36,245
Speaker 1: Nick and I. Nobody on earth would have known. And

883
00:45:36,285 --> 00:45:38,085
Speaker 1: I said to him, I go, but Jesus would know.

884
00:45:38,725 --> 00:45:41,085
Speaker 1: Jesus would know that I wasn't all into the end.

885
00:45:41,765 --> 00:45:46,245
Speaker 1: And it was like something broke in that moment. And

886
00:45:46,245 --> 00:45:49,805
Speaker 1: then the Holy Spirit, as only he can do, did something.

887
00:45:49,805 --> 00:45:52,005
Speaker 1: But it was that okay, that to me was my

888
00:45:52,125 --> 00:45:52,685
Speaker 1: highest preyer.

889
00:45:52,845 --> 00:45:56,565
Speaker 2: Well, I think you like a challenge, and you because

890
00:45:56,605 --> 00:46:01,965
Speaker 2: of your upbringing, You've been uniquely prepared to enter those challenges.

891
00:46:02,005 --> 00:46:05,325
Speaker 2: God has been preparing you for that moment, and I

892
00:46:05,605 --> 00:46:08,285
Speaker 2: it's so clear what you're doing is so unique because

893
00:46:08,285 --> 00:46:11,325
Speaker 2: I've never heard, well, I've never heard a story like

894
00:46:11,365 --> 00:46:16,005
Speaker 2: yours before, all of these elements of your childhood, your conversion,

895
00:46:16,845 --> 00:46:21,005
Speaker 2: then you're an evangelist, then you're a exhorder, and then

896
00:46:21,085 --> 00:46:24,325
Speaker 2: you're doing this ministry for people who have been trafficked,

897
00:46:24,725 --> 00:46:27,924
Speaker 2: and it's going all around the world. It's just such

898
00:46:27,925 --> 00:46:31,364
Speaker 2: an unusual combination of things. But it's you know, it's

899
00:46:31,365 --> 00:46:34,885
Speaker 2: what God has prepared you for, and it's we're a

900
00:46:34,925 --> 00:46:37,924
Speaker 2: better place for it. So you've mentioned your husband many times.

901
00:46:38,245 --> 00:46:40,965
Speaker 2: Did you see you're married thirty years, so you know

902
00:46:41,925 --> 00:46:44,165
Speaker 2: a lot of marriages don't make it that long. That's

903
00:46:44,205 --> 00:46:49,885
Speaker 2: a great accomplishment. So do you have any secrets or

904
00:46:49,965 --> 00:46:53,365
Speaker 2: things that maybe someone who's just gotten married could learn

905
00:46:53,445 --> 00:46:57,685
Speaker 2: from Chris and Nick about having because you spend all

906
00:46:57,685 --> 00:47:01,925
Speaker 2: this time together on their planes, hotel rooms, you're together constantly.

907
00:47:02,645 --> 00:47:05,645
Speaker 2: Give us a few takeaway truths from how to have

908
00:47:05,725 --> 00:47:06,885
Speaker 2: a good, strong marriage.

909
00:47:07,485 --> 00:47:12,205
Speaker 1: There is no doubt Nick and I married. Obviously, we

910
00:47:12,285 --> 00:47:15,205
Speaker 1: love each other and loved each other, but even love

911
00:47:15,245 --> 00:47:18,365
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been enough in and of itself. We married

912
00:47:18,365 --> 00:47:21,725
Speaker 1: around purpose, the Kingdom of God. So purpose has kept

913
00:47:21,805 --> 00:47:25,725
Speaker 1: us for all these years. And there's you know, different

914
00:47:25,765 --> 00:47:29,925
Speaker 1: strokes for different folks, but for us, we were both

915
00:47:30,165 --> 00:47:33,285
Speaker 1: all in with Jesus before we ever met each other,

916
00:47:33,485 --> 00:47:37,125
Speaker 1: and so it was going to be all or nothing,

917
00:47:37,245 --> 00:47:39,925
Speaker 1: you know. And I think we realistically thought we were

918
00:47:39,965 --> 00:47:42,205
Speaker 1: going to be missionaries. We are, so we continue to

919
00:47:42,245 --> 00:47:45,165
Speaker 1: live on mission. But we probably thought in the more

920
00:47:45,165 --> 00:47:48,205
Speaker 1: traditional sense that we were going to go somewhere, probably

921
00:47:48,205 --> 00:47:52,285
Speaker 1: like you know, Bulgaria, Romania, Albania, and we're able to

922
00:47:52,285 --> 00:47:54,525
Speaker 1: serve that in a whole different way now. But so

923
00:47:54,685 --> 00:47:59,685
Speaker 1: for us, what has kept us it is Jesus. People

924
00:47:59,765 --> 00:48:05,445
Speaker 1: go yes, but and I'm like, no, yes, period of course,

925
00:48:06,125 --> 00:48:09,045
Speaker 1: because i think the more you're like Jesus, and I'm

926
00:48:09,045 --> 00:48:10,805
Speaker 1: not trying to be super spiritual, I'm just going so

927
00:48:12,285 --> 00:48:15,085
Speaker 1: the closer Nick and I are both with Jesus, surely

928
00:48:15,125 --> 00:48:17,245
Speaker 1: the fruit of the spirit would emanate more from our lives.

929
00:48:17,245 --> 00:48:19,045
Speaker 1: So we're nicer to each other. So there's more love,

930
00:48:19,085 --> 00:48:21,605
Speaker 1: there's more joy, there's more peace, there's more goodness, there's

931
00:48:21,605 --> 00:48:24,325
Speaker 1: more long suffering. What do you need for a good marriage?

932
00:48:24,365 --> 00:48:29,445
Speaker 1: Long suffering, self control, patience, goodness, kindness, I sound like

933
00:48:29,485 --> 00:48:31,364
Speaker 1: the fruit of the Spirit. So I figured the more

934
00:48:31,565 --> 00:48:34,125
Speaker 1: we're closer to I think we really complicate a lot

935
00:48:34,165 --> 00:48:36,285
Speaker 1: of this stuff. I say to people, I just be

936
00:48:36,365 --> 00:48:39,645
Speaker 1: a Christian. So it truly is help. That takes a

937
00:48:39,685 --> 00:48:42,884
Speaker 1: lot of the arguing and tension out. Are you still

938
00:48:42,885 --> 00:48:45,165
Speaker 1: going to have it? Yes, because we're humans and we're there.

939
00:48:45,245 --> 00:48:50,485
Speaker 1: But a lot of unnecessary conflict can actually be solved

940
00:48:50,525 --> 00:48:52,725
Speaker 1: if we're in the Word, if the joy of the

941
00:48:52,725 --> 00:48:56,085
Speaker 1: Lord truly is our strength, and we're in worship, because

942
00:48:56,085 --> 00:48:58,765
Speaker 1: then a lot of that business I'm not expecting from

943
00:48:58,845 --> 00:49:00,805
Speaker 1: Nick what I can only get from Jesus. That's a

944
00:49:00,805 --> 00:49:02,885
Speaker 1: good point, and I think that saves a lot of hassle.

945
00:49:02,925 --> 00:49:06,005
Speaker 1: And Nick's certainly not expecting from me he can only

946
00:49:06,005 --> 00:49:08,365
Speaker 1: get from Jesus. I mean, just because I might have

947
00:49:08,405 --> 00:49:12,805
Speaker 1: a platform or a visible ministry. Number one, he's the

948
00:49:12,845 --> 00:49:14,565
Speaker 1: head of our home and our family, so that that

949
00:49:14,765 --> 00:49:20,525
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with that. But there is no competition,

950
00:49:20,605 --> 00:49:23,005
Speaker 1: because what are we in competition with. We're both under

951
00:49:23,245 --> 00:49:25,765
Speaker 1: Jesus serving the Lord. You know what I'm saying and so,

952
00:49:26,245 --> 00:49:30,085
Speaker 1: and in our home I always say, and I say

953
00:49:30,125 --> 00:49:33,125
Speaker 1: this to the woman, I go, if a man truly

954
00:49:33,165 --> 00:49:36,285
Speaker 1: does love his wife as Christ loves the church, so

955
00:49:36,365 --> 00:49:39,924
Speaker 1: that's the cavet. If he really does, I think it's

956
00:49:40,085 --> 00:49:43,685
Speaker 1: natural for a woman to want to I do like,

957
00:49:43,725 --> 00:49:45,965
Speaker 1: come in. I'm like, awesome, I'll follow you as you

958
00:49:46,045 --> 00:49:48,844
Speaker 1: follow Christ. That's great. The caveet is, of course, as

959
00:49:48,885 --> 00:49:52,285
Speaker 1: Paul road in Ephesians, that a managed to love his

960
00:49:52,325 --> 00:49:54,485
Speaker 1: wife as Christ loves a church. I think there's no

961
00:49:54,525 --> 00:49:57,565
Speaker 1: better deal. I think, you know, we argue so much

962
00:49:57,565 --> 00:49:59,685
Speaker 1: about all the rest, like, oh honey, that's a no brainer.

963
00:49:59,925 --> 00:50:00,965
Speaker 1: If he loves you.

964
00:50:00,805 --> 00:50:04,285
Speaker 2: Like Christ loves the church, we just as we you know,

965
00:50:04,365 --> 00:50:07,245
Speaker 2: we love him because he does totally. Our love for

966
00:50:07,365 --> 00:50:10,245
Speaker 2: Jesus is a reaction to his love for us. So

967
00:50:10,325 --> 00:50:13,205
Speaker 2: if a husband is loving a wife as he should,

968
00:50:13,845 --> 00:50:15,325
Speaker 2: and that's a tall order, by the way.

969
00:50:15,245 --> 00:50:17,404
Speaker 1: Christian, it's a very tall order that I say to Nick,

970
00:50:17,485 --> 00:50:19,765
Speaker 1: you got the bad end of the day. I always

971
00:50:20,005 --> 00:50:22,765
Speaker 1: we laugh. I go, everything flows out of that.

972
00:50:23,045 --> 00:50:25,685
Speaker 2: Well, it is true. But you know, it's interesting. The

973
00:50:25,685 --> 00:50:29,325
Speaker 2: Bible specifically says husbands love your wife as Christ loves

974
00:50:29,325 --> 00:50:32,605
Speaker 2: the church. And then it specifically says, wives see that

975
00:50:32,645 --> 00:50:37,765
Speaker 2: you respect your husband. You know, wives need love, husbands

976
00:50:37,805 --> 00:50:40,565
Speaker 2: need respect. That's not to see. Husbands don't need love

977
00:50:40,805 --> 00:50:43,085
Speaker 2: and wives don't need respect, but it is to see.

978
00:50:43,125 --> 00:50:45,965
Speaker 2: The Bible is specific about that. And I think it's

979
00:50:46,005 --> 00:50:49,005
Speaker 2: important for a man to know that his wife respects.

980
00:50:50,125 --> 00:50:52,445
Speaker 2: And sometimes she may not telling him that as much

981
00:50:52,445 --> 00:50:56,285
Speaker 2: as she could. And of course he can be neglectful

982
00:50:56,325 --> 00:50:58,884
Speaker 2: and telling his wife how much he loves her as

983
00:50:58,925 --> 00:50:59,405
Speaker 2: he should.

984
00:50:59,605 --> 00:51:02,045
Speaker 1: It's crucial and that we show that. I mean, you

985
00:51:02,085 --> 00:51:05,765
Speaker 1: can say the words respect, but is it demonstrating you

986
00:51:05,925 --> 00:51:08,685
Speaker 1: and the way you operate. So I think I've been

987
00:51:09,965 --> 00:51:12,485
Speaker 1: very keen to do that. And again I think if

988
00:51:12,805 --> 00:51:14,725
Speaker 1: we're about you know, when Jesus said to his mom,

989
00:51:15,165 --> 00:51:15,805
Speaker 1: I always laugh.

990
00:51:15,845 --> 00:51:18,364
Speaker 2: He was twelve first Jesus said to his mom.

991
00:51:19,405 --> 00:51:21,405
Speaker 1: You know the first recorded words we have mom of

992
00:51:21,565 --> 00:51:24,485
Speaker 1: Jesus in Luke. They're very important because we don't almost

993
00:51:24,525 --> 00:51:28,285
Speaker 1: nothing of Jesus's you know, pre teenage or even age

994
00:51:28,445 --> 00:51:31,685
Speaker 1: is but he you know, he says to her, don't

995
00:51:31,685 --> 00:51:34,365
Speaker 1: you know after she lost him for three days? I

996
00:51:34,365 --> 00:51:36,405
Speaker 1: always laugh. I go, that's in the Bible for every

997
00:51:36,445 --> 00:51:38,485
Speaker 1: mother in the world that's ever forgotten their kid at

998
00:51:38,485 --> 00:51:41,405
Speaker 1: the mall. It's all right because Mary forgot God for

999
00:51:41,445 --> 00:51:46,005
Speaker 1: three days anyway. So like, so she goes, but she

1000
00:51:46,205 --> 00:51:48,205
Speaker 1: turns out and he goes, why were you looking for me?

1001
00:51:48,445 --> 00:51:51,645
Speaker 1: Do you not know? I must be about my father's business.

1002
00:51:52,085 --> 00:51:55,525
Speaker 1: So again I'm going to preempt everything with saying when

1003
00:51:55,525 --> 00:52:00,605
Speaker 1: we're about the father's business, my business sort of goes secondary.

1004
00:52:00,965 --> 00:52:03,885
Speaker 1: And again all of the that is never to say

1005
00:52:04,725 --> 00:52:09,405
Speaker 1: it's okay not to be feeling seen or known or loved.

1006
00:52:09,405 --> 00:52:11,205
Speaker 1: And I know we've got so many books about all that,

1007
00:52:11,285 --> 00:52:13,005
Speaker 1: and it is important because some people didn't grow up

1008
00:52:13,045 --> 00:52:16,525
Speaker 1: in great families, so they do need really good instructions

1009
00:52:16,605 --> 00:52:18,925
Speaker 1: on here is how you love someone, well, here is

1010
00:52:18,965 --> 00:52:21,884
Speaker 1: what you do. But I will always keep coming back

1011
00:52:21,925 --> 00:52:24,725
Speaker 1: to Greg. If we truly love the Lord, our God

1012
00:52:24,805 --> 00:52:26,445
Speaker 1: with all our heart, all our mind, all our strength,

1013
00:52:26,485 --> 00:52:29,325
Speaker 1: and our neighbors, we love ourselves that includes our spouse. Yeah,

1014
00:52:29,605 --> 00:52:34,005
Speaker 1: first and foremost actually, and so if that's been done right,

1015
00:52:34,405 --> 00:52:37,845
Speaker 1: the rest of the stuff, like, Okay, I'm gonna sacrifice

1016
00:52:37,845 --> 00:52:39,565
Speaker 1: doing this. I can have a movie night like you

1017
00:52:39,605 --> 00:52:41,844
Speaker 1: can have a date night every year for twenty years

1018
00:52:41,845 --> 00:52:43,965
Speaker 1: and still end up divorced because you're just doing it

1019
00:52:44,005 --> 00:52:46,805
Speaker 1: biggrudgingly true, or you're not your heart's not in it.

1020
00:52:47,005 --> 00:52:47,205
Speaker 2: You know.

1021
00:52:47,325 --> 00:52:49,725
Speaker 1: It's like you go to a football game and you

1022
00:52:49,725 --> 00:52:52,645
Speaker 1: can go that guy's playing, but his heart's not in it. Today.

1023
00:52:52,885 --> 00:52:54,884
Speaker 1: Well you can be in your marriage and going I'm

1024
00:52:54,885 --> 00:52:57,205
Speaker 1: doing all the stuff, but my heart's not in it.

1025
00:52:57,445 --> 00:53:00,325
Speaker 2: And your relationship with God too. That's why Ephesians to

1026
00:53:01,165 --> 00:53:05,445
Speaker 2: excuse me revelation to it says, you know, basically, you're discerning,

1027
00:53:05,805 --> 00:53:08,885
Speaker 2: you're hard working, you're you're checking all the boxes. But

1028
00:53:08,925 --> 00:53:12,125
Speaker 2: I have this against you. You have left your first love,

1029
00:53:12,325 --> 00:53:14,924
Speaker 2: you know. So it can happen in our walk with God,

1030
00:53:15,005 --> 00:53:17,245
Speaker 2: and it could happen in our marriage very much. Now

1031
00:53:17,285 --> 00:53:21,405
Speaker 2: you mentioned movies, let me ask you some mundane questions.

1032
00:53:21,445 --> 00:53:24,045
Speaker 2: So what are your top five favorite films?

1033
00:53:24,085 --> 00:53:26,525
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to say your movie on I as number.

1034
00:53:26,285 --> 00:53:31,045
Speaker 2: One, which is I'm Good A thank you.

1035
00:53:31,405 --> 00:53:34,765
Speaker 1: Yes, which I saw like a baby. I was on

1036
00:53:34,805 --> 00:53:37,485
Speaker 1: a plane. It was very embarrassing, but anyway said that

1037
00:53:37,645 --> 00:53:42,125
Speaker 1: was so well done, so well done. Well you don't

1038
00:53:42,125 --> 00:53:45,805
Speaker 1: what oh my top one? I I'm trying to make

1039
00:53:45,845 --> 00:53:49,325
Speaker 1: sure that I stay Yes.

1040
00:53:49,045 --> 00:53:53,005
Speaker 2: Exactly so you don't feel bad. So I define a

1041
00:53:53,045 --> 00:53:57,365
Speaker 2: favorite film as a movie that if I'm flipping channels

1042
00:53:57,365 --> 00:53:59,885
Speaker 2: on the television and it comes on, though I've seen

1043
00:53:59,925 --> 00:54:03,485
Speaker 2: it fifty times or more, I'll wait until the next

1044
00:54:03,485 --> 00:54:06,445
Speaker 2: commercial comes because I just love the movie right. So

1045
00:54:06,605 --> 00:54:10,805
Speaker 2: for me, you know, it would be like Braveheart, right,

1046
00:54:11,045 --> 00:54:15,565
Speaker 2: or it would be well, I love the original Ben

1047
00:54:15,645 --> 00:54:18,605
Speaker 2: Her with Charleston Heston. I just have always loved that

1048
00:54:18,685 --> 00:54:21,965
Speaker 2: film Tombstone. You know that maybe that's not the most

1049
00:54:21,965 --> 00:54:25,045
Speaker 2: spiritual chest, but I just love the dialogue that's written

1050
00:54:25,085 --> 00:54:27,605
Speaker 2: into Tombstone. Then this is the word one, and I

1051
00:54:27,645 --> 00:54:29,485
Speaker 2: feel like I should turn my man card in for

1052
00:54:29,605 --> 00:54:32,165
Speaker 2: saying this. I love the sound of music.

1053
00:54:32,125 --> 00:54:34,125
Speaker 1: So do I. That would have made it into my

1054
00:54:34,205 --> 00:54:37,445
Speaker 1: top five. Okay, now you know that just shows you've

1055
00:54:37,445 --> 00:54:40,125
Speaker 1: got great taste. That's not turn your man cut in.

1056
00:54:40,245 --> 00:54:43,685
Speaker 1: And I love that film with and probably because it

1057
00:54:43,845 --> 00:54:46,845
Speaker 1: reminds me of my mother. And I went hiking in Switzerland,

1058
00:54:46,845 --> 00:54:49,365
Speaker 1: even though shot in Austria, and I sound I sang

1059
00:54:49,405 --> 00:54:52,605
Speaker 1: the sound of music non stop. With all of that,

1060
00:54:53,485 --> 00:54:55,925
Speaker 1: I do love my big fact Greek wedding.

1061
00:54:56,405 --> 00:54:57,525
Speaker 2: Yeah, you relate to it.

1062
00:54:57,525 --> 00:55:00,245
Speaker 1: It rates there and I mean I laugh every day

1063
00:55:00,565 --> 00:55:03,045
Speaker 1: from here. I don't have anything. My kids will laugh

1064
00:55:03,085 --> 00:55:05,965
Speaker 1: because they go, Mom, you love any French or Italian

1065
00:55:06,005 --> 00:55:10,085
Speaker 1: movie with subtitles because I'm I'm an English major, and

1066
00:55:10,245 --> 00:55:14,285
Speaker 1: so I love anything like Jane Austen. You know, so

1067
00:55:14,365 --> 00:55:17,645
Speaker 1: those great. I'm sorry, I'm Kathy, so I know.

1068
00:55:17,645 --> 00:55:19,325
Speaker 2: All those movies to sleep by.

1069
00:55:19,765 --> 00:55:22,925
Speaker 1: My husband would say, one what you're saying exactly, any

1070
00:55:23,245 --> 00:55:23,565
Speaker 1: if it.

1071
00:55:23,525 --> 00:55:26,405
Speaker 2: Has a British accent, let's watch this and I watch

1072
00:55:26,445 --> 00:55:28,525
Speaker 2: it and I just fall asleep and I watch it

1073
00:55:28,565 --> 00:55:29,605
Speaker 2: kind of stuff neck Watch.

1074
00:55:29,845 --> 00:55:33,165
Speaker 1: That's it. So we've got two different apps and I

1075
00:55:33,285 --> 00:55:36,205
Speaker 1: made them download and pay the subscription because it's called

1076
00:55:36,205 --> 00:55:38,885
Speaker 1: brit Box. We have that. That's because that's all I

1077
00:55:38,885 --> 00:55:40,125
Speaker 1: want to watch, is this British.

1078
00:55:40,165 --> 00:55:42,805
Speaker 2: And we have two others that are similar to brett

1079
00:55:42,845 --> 00:55:43,445
Speaker 2: Box as well.

1080
00:55:43,445 --> 00:55:46,325
Speaker 1: I'm trying to for me tell Kathy to send them

1081
00:55:46,325 --> 00:55:46,525
Speaker 1: to me.

1082
00:55:46,645 --> 00:55:50,285
Speaker 2: I will. Yeah, there's another one that's very similar to

1083
00:55:50,365 --> 00:55:53,725
Speaker 2: brett Box. And then of course PBS well sometimes play

1084
00:55:54,245 --> 00:55:56,205
Speaker 2: the British shows.

1085
00:55:55,805 --> 00:56:00,765
Speaker 1: And stuff Britboxes. My husband never what he's bored, literally,

1086
00:56:00,805 --> 00:56:03,845
Speaker 1: and I'm not even exaggerating. I will hear him snoring

1087
00:56:03,885 --> 00:56:05,885
Speaker 1: within ten minutes if we're watching it Austin.

1088
00:56:06,405 --> 00:56:10,485
Speaker 2: Literally, I just how can we keep watching these seas?

1089
00:56:10,525 --> 00:56:12,765
Speaker 2: Why do they keep remaking this scene?

1090
00:56:13,045 --> 00:56:16,925
Speaker 1: It's awesome and at least they're not like crude and

1091
00:56:16,965 --> 00:56:19,645
Speaker 1: it's no And I mean, I've studied all the novels

1092
00:56:19,765 --> 00:56:22,965
Speaker 1: for like five years at university. So how's my husband

1093
00:56:23,005 --> 00:56:25,085
Speaker 1: He's got a banking and finance degree. He does not

1094
00:56:25,125 --> 00:56:25,965
Speaker 1: get me in those.

1095
00:56:26,205 --> 00:56:29,125
Speaker 2: Well, you know, opposite a track. Okay. So like food,

1096
00:56:29,205 --> 00:56:31,685
Speaker 2: like when you when you like, what do you go

1097
00:56:31,765 --> 00:56:34,485
Speaker 2: to for like a comfort food like us? Just like

1098
00:56:34,485 --> 00:56:36,965
Speaker 2: when you get back maybe to America, maybe on the road,

1099
00:56:36,965 --> 00:56:39,165
Speaker 2: do you find it? What's your favorite kind of food?

1100
00:56:39,285 --> 00:56:41,245
Speaker 1: As soon as we come back, I'll always order a

1101
00:56:41,285 --> 00:56:44,165
Speaker 1: good tie or a good Indian Okay. Yeah, and now

1102
00:56:44,205 --> 00:56:47,085
Speaker 1: southern California doesn't. We've got great tie here. You're not

1103
00:56:47,165 --> 00:56:49,805
Speaker 1: great Indian here. London's got great Indian. Don't forget. I

1104
00:56:49,845 --> 00:56:53,125
Speaker 1: spent you know, a good out of the country at least,

1105
00:56:53,645 --> 00:56:55,525
Speaker 1: you know, one hundred and eighty hundred and ninety nights,

1106
00:56:55,565 --> 00:56:58,605
Speaker 1: so I get amazing food around the world. So thank god,

1107
00:56:58,645 --> 00:57:02,685
Speaker 1: I've got a palette that is very international because I

1108
00:57:02,725 --> 00:57:06,885
Speaker 1: love it. But Thie Indian would be very high for me,

1109
00:57:06,925 --> 00:57:08,125
Speaker 1: and then of course Mediterranean.

1110
00:57:08,365 --> 00:57:11,485
Speaker 2: Kathy likes Thai in Indian. She was raised in the Philippines.

1111
00:57:11,565 --> 00:57:13,805
Speaker 2: Is a little girl, oh wow, so you know, and

1112
00:57:13,845 --> 00:57:16,525
Speaker 2: she lived in Thailand as well. So I'm a little

1113
00:57:16,565 --> 00:57:18,765
Speaker 2: mystified when I'm in a Thai restaurant. I don't know

1114
00:57:18,805 --> 00:57:21,765
Speaker 2: what to order. I'm more like I like Mexican food,

1115
00:57:21,805 --> 00:57:23,525
Speaker 2: Italian food, I like hamburgers.

1116
00:57:23,525 --> 00:57:25,765
Speaker 1: I'm more just Mexican.

1117
00:57:25,845 --> 00:57:29,085
Speaker 2: Of course, yes, yes, I craved that when I'm gone,

1118
00:57:29,085 --> 00:57:32,125
Speaker 2: because it seems like it's hard to find it done right,

1119
00:57:32,245 --> 00:57:35,045
Speaker 2: even the East Coast. Like when I went to this

1120
00:57:35,365 --> 00:57:39,045
Speaker 2: restaurant when we were filming Jesus Revolution and it was

1121
00:57:39,085 --> 00:57:41,325
Speaker 2: in Alabama. We shot a lot of it in Alabama,

1122
00:57:41,525 --> 00:57:45,325
Speaker 2: which substituted for California, believe it or not. Wow, And

1123
00:57:45,645 --> 00:57:48,405
Speaker 2: so there was a Mexican restaurant. Looked pretty good, So

1124
00:57:48,485 --> 00:57:50,685
Speaker 2: let's go in here, and I ordered not chos like

1125
00:57:50,845 --> 00:57:54,845
Speaker 2: I love nachos, and instead of like melted cheddar cheese,

1126
00:57:54,965 --> 00:57:58,725
Speaker 2: they literally put cheese whiz on chips like this sinful?

1127
00:57:59,685 --> 00:58:02,685
Speaker 1: That is that is? That is sinful? We do. And

1128
00:58:02,845 --> 00:58:05,165
Speaker 1: I will say that when I land and I even

1129
00:58:05,245 --> 00:58:08,845
Speaker 1: like our Mexican here in southern California more than Texas,

1130
00:58:08,885 --> 00:58:10,205
Speaker 1: Like you know, they love their textas.

1131
00:58:10,245 --> 00:58:13,085
Speaker 2: The next thing is a different vice. They make everything

1132
00:58:13,205 --> 00:58:14,125
Speaker 2: sweet in Texas.

1133
00:58:14,165 --> 00:58:16,725
Speaker 1: Now I prefer ours here, And that would be the

1134
00:58:16,725 --> 00:58:19,405
Speaker 1: first thing. My daughter's studying in Paris, France, she is studying.

1135
00:58:19,845 --> 00:58:22,605
Speaker 2: Have you ever been to Joe Teas though in Fort Worth?

1136
00:58:22,805 --> 00:58:24,685
Speaker 2: Pretty good Mexican. That's Texas.

1137
00:58:24,725 --> 00:58:26,925
Speaker 1: My daughter's taking notes as you're saying this, And so

1138
00:58:27,165 --> 00:58:29,805
Speaker 1: as soon as she lands from Paris, even if it's

1139
00:58:29,805 --> 00:58:32,845
Speaker 1: a late night and she doesn't get into lax, the

1140
00:58:32,885 --> 00:58:35,365
Speaker 1: first thing, it could be ten thirty at night, her

1141
00:58:35,405 --> 00:58:38,085
Speaker 1: sister will pick her up from the flight from Paris

1142
00:58:38,165 --> 00:58:40,685
Speaker 1: and they will go find a Mexican restaurant. She just

1143
00:58:41,205 --> 00:58:44,285
Speaker 1: that's her biggest Like, I miss California Mexican food.

1144
00:58:44,885 --> 00:58:48,165
Speaker 2: So if you can have dinner with like three people,

1145
00:58:48,365 --> 00:58:50,525
Speaker 2: and we won't include Jesus, he would be our number

1146
00:58:50,565 --> 00:58:55,565
Speaker 2: one choice. But people from Yesteroray living not living, who

1147
00:58:55,605 --> 00:58:57,525
Speaker 2: would you like to have a meal with and talk to?

1148
00:58:58,565 --> 00:59:00,765
Speaker 2: Bible character is historical figures?

1149
00:59:00,805 --> 00:59:02,245
Speaker 1: Oh I could do Bible characters.

1150
00:59:02,645 --> 00:59:05,925
Speaker 2: Yeah, which let's do historical figures and Bible characters.

1151
00:59:06,085 --> 00:59:08,765
Speaker 1: Well both, I think I'm always going to tend towards

1152
00:59:09,925 --> 00:59:12,405
Speaker 1: here's me and obviously because I've been speaking about her

1153
00:59:12,405 --> 00:59:14,645
Speaker 1: a lot, but I do want you to have dinner

1154
00:59:14,725 --> 00:59:19,565
Speaker 1: with Lot's wife and find out what was it like

1155
00:59:19,605 --> 00:59:22,765
Speaker 1: to be a pillar of salt for that period of time?

1156
00:59:23,525 --> 00:59:25,565
Speaker 2: Very conting, that's very constraining.

1157
00:59:26,365 --> 00:59:28,125
Speaker 1: There's so much I want to know about her. There

1158
00:59:28,205 --> 00:59:31,005
Speaker 1: is quite a lot actually about why why look back

1159
00:59:31,045 --> 00:59:33,885
Speaker 1: when you when you're being and it was deliberate.

1160
00:59:34,005 --> 00:59:35,085
Speaker 2: It was a deliberate look.

1161
00:59:35,165 --> 00:59:36,725
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you go to I mean.

1162
00:59:36,605 --> 00:59:38,805
Speaker 2: If something like that, well, what's going on? Wasn't that?

1163
00:59:38,845 --> 00:59:41,245
Speaker 1: It was like she wanted to go back.

1164
00:59:41,125 --> 00:59:43,925
Speaker 2: Where Jesus actually said, remember Lots, that's it.

1165
00:59:44,045 --> 00:59:46,125
Speaker 1: That's because I've been talking about her.

1166
00:59:46,445 --> 00:59:48,685
Speaker 2: Very interesting. Well, the good thing if you had a

1167
00:59:48,765 --> 00:59:51,165
Speaker 2: meal with Lot's why you wouldn't have to ask her

1168
00:59:51,205 --> 00:59:53,205
Speaker 2: to pass the soult. She would be the salt.

1169
00:59:53,325 --> 00:59:58,845
Speaker 1: I'm waiting for it, trust you. I want all the biblically,

1170
00:59:58,845 --> 01:00:02,685
Speaker 1: I want the obscure and because changing you're like laughing

1171
01:00:02,965 --> 01:00:06,445
Speaker 1: and I'm going I want to the daughters of Zalafa

1172
01:00:06,485 --> 01:00:11,685
Speaker 1: had do you know that? Because numbers twenty. This is it. Well,

1173
01:00:11,925 --> 01:00:15,045
Speaker 1: you know in America in nineteen hundred, the women suffragettes

1174
01:00:15,085 --> 01:00:17,565
Speaker 1: when they finally got the right to vote, they cited

1175
01:00:17,645 --> 01:00:19,965
Speaker 1: numbers twenty seven. Do you know that's in your congress?

1176
01:00:20,325 --> 01:00:22,485
Speaker 1: I put up to the church the whole speech.

1177
01:00:22,525 --> 01:00:23,245
Speaker 2: I knew that, yep.

1178
01:00:23,245 --> 01:00:26,765
Speaker 1: And it was because and the woman Edna that was

1179
01:00:27,445 --> 01:00:31,565
Speaker 1: quoting it. She said before the judiciary committee, she goes,

1180
01:00:31,685 --> 01:00:35,885
Speaker 1: I suggest you or do what Moses did. He inclined

1181
01:00:35,925 --> 01:00:38,045
Speaker 1: his ear to the Lord, because you know he went

1182
01:00:38,085 --> 01:00:39,565
Speaker 1: and asked God about when they said, can I have

1183
01:00:39,685 --> 01:00:44,565
Speaker 1: my inheritance? And she said on the first appeal that

1184
01:00:44,885 --> 01:00:47,245
Speaker 1: the inheritance laws were changed and the women received the

1185
01:00:47,285 --> 01:00:50,685
Speaker 1: inheritance in numbers twenty seven. And she goes, We've been

1186
01:00:50,725 --> 01:00:54,565
Speaker 1: coming before you for thirty years, so perhaps it's time

1187
01:00:54,565 --> 01:00:57,245
Speaker 1: for you to go before the Lord and to incline

1188
01:00:57,245 --> 01:01:00,485
Speaker 1: your ear. And here from God's it was so instrumental.

1189
01:01:00,885 --> 01:01:04,045
Speaker 1: So I want to know about their confidence. How do

1190
01:01:04,125 --> 01:01:07,925
Speaker 1: you in ancient Near East in times go before the

1191
01:01:07,965 --> 01:01:11,165
Speaker 1: tentive meeting Moses, Eliezer, the priest and all the leaders

1192
01:01:11,605 --> 01:01:15,725
Speaker 1: when there was no precedent for that kind of inheritance,

1193
01:01:15,765 --> 01:01:18,365
Speaker 1: you know, obviously for the allotment of land. And yet

1194
01:01:18,365 --> 01:01:20,445
Speaker 1: the Lord said to Moses what the daughters of Zalopa

1195
01:01:20,485 --> 01:01:23,565
Speaker 1: had said is right, they should get it. What was

1196
01:01:23,605 --> 01:01:26,965
Speaker 1: it that got you the confidence that you knew God's

1197
01:01:27,005 --> 01:01:28,925
Speaker 1: going to say yes and gave you the faith? So

1198
01:01:29,165 --> 01:01:30,485
Speaker 1: that fascinates me.

1199
01:01:30,565 --> 01:01:34,485
Speaker 3: Of course I am going to go I am going.

1200
01:01:34,405 --> 01:01:35,805
Speaker 1: To keep it on a girls like that. How often

1201
01:01:35,845 --> 01:01:37,605
Speaker 1: do you have a chick on your podcast? So this

1202
01:01:37,765 --> 01:01:41,245
Speaker 1: is for all the girls to be able to say, oh, okay,

1203
01:01:41,565 --> 01:01:44,485
Speaker 1: there are chicks there, and you know, we're going to

1204
01:01:44,565 --> 01:01:49,485
Speaker 1: talk about it. And I do want to talk to Priscilla,

1205
01:01:49,565 --> 01:01:52,565
Speaker 1: you know, Aquilla's wife, because I want to know, like

1206
01:01:52,645 --> 01:01:55,205
Speaker 1: even when she was there in Corinth with a quiller,

1207
01:01:55,325 --> 01:01:57,565
Speaker 1: you know, and they prepped it for Paul to come

1208
01:01:57,605 --> 01:02:02,245
Speaker 1: down from Thessalonica Athens and then Corinth obviously, but when

1209
01:02:02,285 --> 01:02:05,405
Speaker 1: she went to I'm pretty sure it was in Ephesus

1210
01:02:05,685 --> 01:02:10,365
Speaker 1: where she took the guy out of Alexandria that had

1211
01:02:10,445 --> 01:02:13,965
Speaker 1: been teaching and she took was it a Policyes, and

1212
01:02:14,045 --> 01:02:18,205
Speaker 1: she took him aside and you know, to ensure that

1213
01:02:18,245 --> 01:02:20,365
Speaker 1: he was teaching the right things. I want to know

1214
01:02:20,405 --> 01:02:22,725
Speaker 1: what it would have been like in Ephesus. Then she

1215
01:02:22,845 --> 01:02:26,045
Speaker 1: wasn't formally trained, and Apolos was brilliant. He was out

1216
01:02:26,085 --> 01:02:28,965
Speaker 1: of the Alexander school. So with all of his education,

1217
01:02:29,085 --> 01:02:32,565
Speaker 1: all of his training, all of his brilliants, what was

1218
01:02:32,605 --> 01:02:36,005
Speaker 1: it like to take him aside and to for him

1219
01:02:36,085 --> 01:02:40,565
Speaker 1: obviously he wanted to hear and understand. And where was

1220
01:02:40,605 --> 01:02:42,925
Speaker 1: she Where did she get her knowledge from to be

1221
01:02:42,965 --> 01:02:44,565
Speaker 1: able to train him? Like there are some questions like

1222
01:02:44,605 --> 01:02:46,485
Speaker 1: that that I want to know is like how did

1223
01:02:46,525 --> 01:02:49,205
Speaker 1: that happen? Because you were obviously very instrumental with Paul

1224
01:02:49,245 --> 01:02:52,565
Speaker 1: and your husband in obviously the church plants in Corinth

1225
01:02:52,565 --> 01:02:55,845
Speaker 1: and Ephesus. But even this guy that was mean in

1226
01:02:55,845 --> 01:02:57,885
Speaker 1: the scripture says he was a great arator and he

1227
01:02:57,965 --> 01:03:01,485
Speaker 1: was brilliant, obviously trained. My parents are from Alexandria, Egypt,

1228
01:03:01,485 --> 01:03:04,525
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you were trained at the best. And

1229
01:03:04,605 --> 01:03:06,925
Speaker 1: yet this woman that we don't know that much about

1230
01:03:07,045 --> 01:03:09,165
Speaker 1: except she goes turn up a couple of times in

1231
01:03:09,205 --> 01:03:11,685
Speaker 1: the New Testament and in strategic church plans, and of

1232
01:03:11,725 --> 01:03:14,565
Speaker 1: course I'm always interested in church planting, so they're my chicks.

1233
01:03:14,685 --> 01:03:18,285
Speaker 2: Well, it shows that also a couple working together, because

1234
01:03:18,365 --> 01:03:21,645
Speaker 2: you know, Aquila and Prissella. They both discipled him taught

1235
01:03:21,685 --> 01:03:24,765
Speaker 2: him the way of God more perfectly. And you know,

1236
01:03:24,805 --> 01:03:27,005
Speaker 2: and I want to ask you about a person we

1237
01:03:27,085 --> 01:03:29,885
Speaker 2: both know because when I was a brand new Christian,

1238
01:03:30,725 --> 01:03:33,285
Speaker 2: I accepted Christ in my high school campus. Some guy

1239
01:03:33,645 --> 01:03:36,245
Speaker 2: never met before, his name was Mark, comes up to me. Hey,

1240
01:03:36,285 --> 01:03:39,245
Speaker 2: I saw you accepted Christ. I was like, who's this guy?

1241
01:03:39,245 --> 01:03:42,045
Speaker 2: Why is he talking to me? And I'm like yeah,

1242
01:03:42,125 --> 01:03:44,205
Speaker 2: and he goes, well, you know, you need to go

1243
01:03:44,245 --> 01:03:46,605
Speaker 2: to church. And because I was just going to this

1244
01:03:46,645 --> 01:03:49,765
Speaker 2: little Bible study on my high school campus, they said, oh,

1245
01:03:49,845 --> 01:03:51,525
Speaker 2: that's okay. And he goes, no, you need to come

1246
01:03:51,525 --> 01:03:53,685
Speaker 2: to church with me. And said, now that's all right.

1247
01:03:53,725 --> 01:03:55,125
Speaker 2: And he goes, where do you live? I go, no,

1248
01:03:55,165 --> 01:03:57,285
Speaker 2: I don't. Next thing I know, I'm giving him my address.

1249
01:03:57,685 --> 01:04:00,365
Speaker 2: He was persistent and the best way. He started to

1250
01:04:00,445 --> 01:04:02,605
Speaker 2: disciple me. And he took me to his home and

1251
01:04:02,645 --> 01:04:04,885
Speaker 2: he had his mom and dad. They were a Christian family.

1252
01:04:05,525 --> 01:04:07,845
Speaker 2: Ever had meals with my family? You know, I went

1253
01:04:07,885 --> 01:04:10,845
Speaker 2: on and got my own food every night. Wow, Now

1254
01:04:10,845 --> 01:04:12,565
Speaker 2: it was kind of good because I did eat what

1255
01:04:12,605 --> 01:04:15,085
Speaker 2: I wanted every night. I had a Hamburger, French fise

1256
01:04:15,365 --> 01:04:18,845
Speaker 2: and a vanilla shake. But after the ten thousandth time,

1257
01:04:19,565 --> 01:04:22,885
Speaker 2: I would literally I just love being with a Christian family.

1258
01:04:22,885 --> 01:04:27,285
Speaker 2: I've never seen that before, Mom, Dad, siblings. We had

1259
01:04:27,285 --> 01:04:30,685
Speaker 2: a nice meal than a Bible study afterwards, so you know,

1260
01:04:30,765 --> 01:04:33,045
Speaker 2: you see the power. We think it's all preachers are

1261
01:04:33,085 --> 01:04:35,925
Speaker 2: going to do, but sometimes just a godly couple like

1262
01:04:35,965 --> 01:04:39,325
Speaker 2: an Equila and a Priscilla can help a mighty communicator

1263
01:04:39,445 --> 01:04:42,645
Speaker 2: like an Apollos that somewhere saying I'm a Paul, Well

1264
01:04:42,645 --> 01:04:44,885
Speaker 2: I'm of Apollo. So he had to be quite a

1265
01:04:44,925 --> 01:04:47,725
Speaker 2: mover in shake to be a competitor to Paul, for

1266
01:04:47,805 --> 01:04:50,725
Speaker 2: lack of a better expression, but you know, it's yeah,

1267
01:04:50,805 --> 01:04:54,045
Speaker 2: So what about historical figures like you know, like for me,

1268
01:04:54,125 --> 01:05:00,085
Speaker 2: I'd say Spurgeon, probably C. S. Lewis, you know, maybe Churchill.

1269
01:05:00,365 --> 01:05:04,165
Speaker 2: I've just always admired Churchill. It might be Abraham Lincoln,

1270
01:05:04,845 --> 01:05:07,165
Speaker 2: it might be George Washington.

1271
01:05:07,285 --> 01:05:10,045
Speaker 1: You know, well, of course, you know, I mean, I

1272
01:05:10,045 --> 01:05:14,605
Speaker 1: would love to meet Alexander the Great because back to

1273
01:05:14,685 --> 01:05:17,285
Speaker 1: the Greek It's all right, I got to go back

1274
01:05:17,325 --> 01:05:20,885
Speaker 1: to So there's no doubt about that. Nelson Mandela, well

1275
01:05:21,405 --> 01:05:24,445
Speaker 1: very much so, because you know, I mean, and we've

1276
01:05:24,445 --> 01:05:26,325
Speaker 1: got an office in South Africa, So for me, that

1277
01:05:26,365 --> 01:05:31,885
Speaker 1: whole kind of thing is is really really important.

1278
01:05:31,445 --> 01:05:34,485
Speaker 2: In March to your own beat, Christina, Oh, you're all

1279
01:05:34,525 --> 01:05:37,045
Speaker 2: the things you say, like, no, I wouldn't expect them,

1280
01:05:37,045 --> 01:05:40,325
Speaker 2: but it's so interesting. Really well, I guess just because

1281
01:05:40,365 --> 01:05:43,525
Speaker 2: I think it's different than me. But you know, the

1282
01:05:43,605 --> 01:05:46,205
Speaker 2: things you pivot to are interesting, like your girls. You

1283
01:05:46,205 --> 01:05:48,405
Speaker 2: would have a meal with Lot's wife. I'm going to

1284
01:05:48,485 --> 01:05:51,405
Speaker 2: remember that. That's gonna findance way into a sermon summer.

1285
01:05:51,565 --> 01:05:54,005
Speaker 2: I was once talking to Christine Can I asked her

1286
01:05:54,165 --> 01:05:56,845
Speaker 2: if she get in a meal with anybody. She said,

1287
01:05:56,925 --> 01:05:59,005
Speaker 2: lots of And I think that's cool.

1288
01:05:59,085 --> 01:06:00,885
Speaker 1: It's gonna yeah, the women's dinners, the love for Had's

1289
01:06:00,925 --> 01:06:06,645
Speaker 1: daughters and Priscilla that's my and then definitely Nelson, definitely.

1290
01:06:08,765 --> 01:06:12,285
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just thinking Billy Graham, probably because it

1291
01:06:12,325 --> 01:06:14,005
Speaker 1: were you knew him, but I never did.

1292
01:06:14,045 --> 01:06:16,565
Speaker 2: Well, and I you know, I had the great privilege

1293
01:06:16,805 --> 01:06:18,925
Speaker 2: of having meals with him, and I can tell you

1294
01:06:18,965 --> 01:06:23,165
Speaker 2: in person he was even more impressive, well privately than

1295
01:06:23,205 --> 01:06:25,925
Speaker 2: he was publicly and publicly. You know, he's this great preacher,

1296
01:06:26,205 --> 01:06:30,605
Speaker 2: I think, one of the greatest preachers ever. But privately.

1297
01:06:30,685 --> 01:06:33,325
Speaker 2: He was so kind and it was actually very hard

1298
01:06:33,325 --> 01:06:35,325
Speaker 2: to get him to talk about himself because he was

1299
01:06:35,445 --> 01:06:39,165
Speaker 2: mister history. He shook hands with everybody, you know, he

1300
01:06:39,285 --> 01:06:41,765
Speaker 2: knew Churchill, he knew gold in my ear, he knew

1301
01:06:41,805 --> 01:06:45,365
Speaker 2: every president. And going back to Truman, Muhammad Ali, he

1302
01:06:45,405 --> 01:06:47,645
Speaker 2: came to us home, you name it, he met him.

1303
01:06:47,805 --> 01:06:49,645
Speaker 2: So I would ask him, Billy, tell me about the

1304
01:06:49,685 --> 01:06:52,165
Speaker 2: time that you met this person. Then he would kind

1305
01:06:52,165 --> 01:06:54,565
Speaker 2: of say a few things, and then he'd say, tell

1306
01:06:54,565 --> 01:06:58,965
Speaker 2: me about yourself, And he really actually was interested. And

1307
01:06:59,005 --> 01:07:01,685
Speaker 2: I would think, why am I talking to him about myself?

1308
01:07:01,805 --> 01:07:04,085
Speaker 2: I don't really want to talk about myself to him,

1309
01:07:04,325 --> 01:07:07,405
Speaker 2: but he was interested. I think that's I think one

1310
01:07:07,405 --> 01:07:11,005
Speaker 2: of the secrets of his great success was a genuine

1311
01:07:11,085 --> 01:07:15,485
Speaker 2: and real humility, and he was a very approachable person.

1312
01:07:16,085 --> 01:07:19,325
Speaker 2: But I wanted to talk about one person. And then

1313
01:07:19,445 --> 01:07:23,245
Speaker 2: a closing question, J John. We both know j J.

1314
01:07:23,525 --> 01:07:25,045
Speaker 1: Yes legend and so.

1315
01:07:25,045 --> 01:07:27,925
Speaker 2: I've heard and you have to tell me that he

1316
01:07:27,965 --> 01:07:30,325
Speaker 2: played a role in leading you to Christ.

1317
01:07:30,525 --> 01:07:33,445
Speaker 1: Ye had a really significant role. I was at Sydney University.

1318
01:07:34,405 --> 01:07:37,645
Speaker 1: I had gone in nineteen eighty six. Then I deferred

1319
01:07:37,645 --> 01:07:40,005
Speaker 1: for two years kind of traveled the world, came back,

1320
01:07:40,685 --> 01:07:43,925
Speaker 1: and my dad had died in that time, and to

1321
01:07:44,045 --> 01:07:46,965
Speaker 1: say I was far away from God is an understatement,

1322
01:07:47,925 --> 01:07:53,725
Speaker 1: and probably extremely disappointed with God my father dying. I

1323
01:07:53,805 --> 01:07:56,925
Speaker 1: think everything, the abuse, it all had caught up with me.

1324
01:07:57,885 --> 01:08:02,165
Speaker 1: And a friend of mine at Sydney University said, you know,

1325
01:08:02,245 --> 01:08:06,925
Speaker 1: there's a Greek evangelist coming to do and of course

1326
01:08:06,925 --> 01:08:09,085
Speaker 1: we call them crusades then too, it was a week

1327
01:08:09,165 --> 01:08:12,445
Speaker 1: long crusade in So this is nineteen eighty eight, eighty nine,

1328
01:08:12,925 --> 01:08:17,764
Speaker 1: and I was utterly disinterested in anything to do with

1329
01:08:18,045 --> 01:08:20,525
Speaker 1: God church. I was so angry that my dad had died,

1330
01:08:20,644 --> 01:08:23,684
Speaker 1: so I had a lot of anger. But because he

1331
01:08:23,844 --> 01:08:26,884
Speaker 1: was my friend again, like you're saying, it's normal everyday people,

1332
01:08:27,005 --> 01:08:30,485
Speaker 1: my friend just continued to persevere and sort of played

1333
01:08:30,525 --> 01:08:35,285
Speaker 1: the Greek card, and eventually it intrigued me because I

1334
01:08:35,365 --> 01:08:39,724
Speaker 1: had never heard of a Greek like Protestant Christian, like,

1335
01:08:39,804 --> 01:08:41,964
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know. I mean, my mom would say, well,

1336
01:08:42,005 --> 01:08:44,245
Speaker 1: you grew up in the Orthodox Church where Christians, yes,

1337
01:08:44,325 --> 01:08:47,525
Speaker 1: but not really a born again believer. I'd never personally

1338
01:08:47,604 --> 01:08:51,644
Speaker 1: come across a Greek one. And so she goes, just

1339
01:08:51,724 --> 01:08:54,085
Speaker 1: come and listen to him and his Greek he's a

1340
01:08:54,125 --> 01:08:57,844
Speaker 1: Greek cypriot actually is so I remember I went, I was,

1341
01:08:58,005 --> 01:09:01,325
Speaker 1: I sat at the back and didn't even really want

1342
01:09:01,365 --> 01:09:04,684
Speaker 1: to be there. And I mean, of course J John

1343
01:09:04,724 --> 01:09:08,964
Speaker 1: is just so winsome and so there's none like him too,

1344
01:09:09,045 --> 01:09:12,844
Speaker 1: I mean unparalleled. It's like mister Bean on steroids and

1345
01:09:13,445 --> 01:09:18,044
Speaker 1: a theological theologian mister Bean. And so but I stood

1346
01:09:18,045 --> 01:09:20,684
Speaker 1: at the back, and then my friend at the end

1347
01:09:20,804 --> 01:09:23,564
Speaker 1: sort of made me go say hello, and let me

1348
01:09:23,604 --> 01:09:26,924
Speaker 1: just say I was very I was less than polite,

1349
01:09:27,045 --> 01:09:30,804
Speaker 1: like because he's just him and he was not shaken

1350
01:09:30,884 --> 01:09:33,844
Speaker 1: at all, like you know, he's like my because I

1351
01:09:33,924 --> 01:09:36,844
Speaker 1: was so angry with God and Christianity and everything. It

1352
01:09:37,005 --> 01:09:38,964
Speaker 1: just he didn't even care, just becau why don't we

1353
01:09:39,005 --> 01:09:42,525
Speaker 1: have coffee, you know, like just he was so winsome.

1354
01:09:42,804 --> 01:09:45,924
Speaker 1: And and then I went to coffee with my friend

1355
01:09:46,005 --> 01:09:50,165
Speaker 1: and I would just was still, you know, all my

1356
01:09:50,245 --> 01:09:53,604
Speaker 1: animosity towards God would come out that he was great,

1357
01:09:53,844 --> 01:09:56,284
Speaker 1: no problem, you know, so loving, just come back to our.

1358
01:09:56,245 --> 01:09:59,604
Speaker 2: A bridge builder that you never.

1359
01:09:59,445 --> 01:10:03,965
Speaker 1: Tried to close and never tried to dismiss my feelings.

1360
01:10:04,045 --> 01:10:06,844
Speaker 1: In fact, was very empathetic, you know, with my pain.

1361
01:10:07,724 --> 01:10:09,004
Speaker 2: You probably read that.

1362
01:10:09,005 --> 01:10:11,285
Speaker 1: Yeah, very much so of course, and then invited me

1363
01:10:11,325 --> 01:10:13,325
Speaker 1: for another coffee and then another and it was like

1364
01:10:13,365 --> 01:10:17,644
Speaker 1: that whole week I would go to the event, you know,

1365
01:10:17,764 --> 01:10:19,084
Speaker 1: like at the school.

1366
01:10:19,125 --> 01:10:20,564
Speaker 2: Did he do that with anybody else?

1367
01:10:20,804 --> 01:10:22,485
Speaker 1: No, it was really the Lord and I have my

1368
01:10:22,525 --> 01:10:24,405
Speaker 1: friend with him, he had his assistant with him, but

1369
01:10:24,445 --> 01:10:27,124
Speaker 1: it was just like he obviously felt to reach out

1370
01:10:27,644 --> 01:10:31,004
Speaker 1: and he was lasting. He tells a story about everywhere

1371
01:10:31,005 --> 01:10:33,325
Speaker 1: around the world, you know, just invite someone for another

1372
01:10:33,365 --> 01:10:35,044
Speaker 1: cup of coffee because you never know what the next

1373
01:10:35,045 --> 01:10:37,205
Speaker 1: cup of coffee. Because I was on the receiving it.

1374
01:10:37,245 --> 01:10:43,964
Speaker 1: And truly the Lord used him to massively bring me back,

1375
01:10:44,005 --> 01:10:46,325
Speaker 1: and then he was so gracious break to Christ. And

1376
01:10:46,804 --> 01:10:48,844
Speaker 1: then I got planted in a church, which then I

1377
01:10:48,844 --> 01:10:53,044
Speaker 1: began to be discipled. But that without that that week

1378
01:10:53,445 --> 01:10:56,445
Speaker 1: of crusade at Sydney University in eighty eight eighty nine,

1379
01:10:57,644 --> 01:10:59,325
Speaker 1: he entered my world and then came back the next

1380
01:10:59,445 --> 01:11:01,004
Speaker 1: year to do a series of things I think with

1381
01:11:01,045 --> 01:11:05,964
Speaker 1: the Sydney Anglicans around my stating New South Wales, and

1382
01:11:06,005 --> 01:11:08,844
Speaker 1: he was so grati him. Achille really took me under

1383
01:11:08,884 --> 01:11:11,764
Speaker 1: their wing. From then and to this day. You know,

1384
01:11:11,844 --> 01:11:13,844
Speaker 1: weird difference, but a great guy.

1385
01:11:13,964 --> 01:11:18,124
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I've been with him, He's spoken from

1386
01:11:18,125 --> 01:11:20,844
Speaker 2: me before, and he got me this really cool. He

1387
01:11:20,884 --> 01:11:23,004
Speaker 2: knows I'm a Beatles fan. I'm a huge Beetles fan.

1388
01:11:23,445 --> 01:11:26,324
Speaker 4: And he goes, Greg, I got you a little yellow

1389
01:11:26,405 --> 01:11:29,204
Speaker 4: submarine killing I saw it in this store.

1390
01:11:29,285 --> 01:11:32,044
Speaker 2: I'm trying to do this is I'm laughing.

1391
01:11:32,964 --> 01:11:36,644
Speaker 4: It's actually that from when the Beatles were together. Still,

1392
01:11:36,924 --> 01:11:39,164
Speaker 4: so I've got this little yellow submarine right in front

1393
01:11:39,165 --> 01:11:41,804
Speaker 4: of my computer monitor. And he pushed the little levers

1394
01:11:41,844 --> 01:11:45,365
Speaker 4: and John Paul, George Rico Poka. I think if my

1395
01:11:45,445 --> 01:11:48,004
Speaker 4: office was on fire, I go yell submarine and I

1396
01:11:48,165 --> 01:11:50,564
Speaker 4: d have a couple of other things. But because it's

1397
01:11:50,604 --> 01:11:53,044
Speaker 4: so cool and the fact that he took the time

1398
01:11:53,085 --> 01:11:55,164
Speaker 4: to give that to me is a wonderful man of God.

1399
01:11:55,485 --> 01:11:58,205
Speaker 4: So okay, let's think about this as we wrap up,

1400
01:11:58,245 --> 01:12:01,645
Speaker 4: and thank you for your time. If an older Christine

1401
01:12:01,684 --> 01:12:03,924
Speaker 4: could speak to a younger you like you know, with

1402
01:12:04,045 --> 01:12:08,444
Speaker 4: all you've experienced, what advice would you give yourself?

1403
01:12:10,045 --> 01:12:13,365
Speaker 1: You know this question when people ask me, I'm going

1404
01:12:13,445 --> 01:12:14,644
Speaker 1: to get on those questions.

1405
01:12:14,724 --> 01:12:16,644
Speaker 2: I'm going to I ask it. I don't like it.

1406
01:12:16,724 --> 01:12:24,084
Speaker 1: I don't like anything because Julan when I started, truly

1407
01:12:24,245 --> 01:12:27,604
Speaker 1: when I were after that week with Jay John and

1408
01:12:27,644 --> 01:12:30,804
Speaker 1: then coming to church. So I would say from the

1409
01:12:30,924 --> 01:12:34,205
Speaker 1: nineteenth of January nineteen eighty nine, sorry, twenty ninth of

1410
01:12:34,245 --> 01:12:37,525
Speaker 1: January nineteen eighty nine was when I walked into my

1411
01:12:37,644 --> 01:12:39,964
Speaker 1: church for the first time, and then I've never looked back.

1412
01:12:40,005 --> 01:12:42,525
Speaker 1: Like that was that I'm planted in church and I'm

1413
01:12:42,564 --> 01:12:46,844
Speaker 1: following Jesus. I began to be disciples, which is why

1414
01:12:46,844 --> 01:12:48,764
Speaker 1: you need an evangelist too, because if there had been

1415
01:12:48,764 --> 01:12:51,165
Speaker 1: no Sydney University crusade, I wouldn't have been you know

1416
01:12:51,165 --> 01:12:53,365
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. That's why. So all of it goes together.

1417
01:12:54,125 --> 01:12:56,405
Speaker 1: So the twenty ninth of January nineteen eighty nine, here

1418
01:12:56,485 --> 01:13:01,004
Speaker 1: I am. Very soon after that, I was reading Psalm ninety,

1419
01:13:01,085 --> 01:13:04,525
Speaker 1: verse twelve, which said, Moses, you wrote, you know, teach

1420
01:13:04,604 --> 01:13:06,844
Speaker 1: us to number our days that we may develop a

1421
01:13:06,844 --> 01:13:12,204
Speaker 1: heart of wisdom now because again my painful past and whatever.

1422
01:13:13,405 --> 01:13:16,844
Speaker 1: I took that so literally, So we're talking January nineteen

1423
01:13:16,844 --> 01:13:19,525
Speaker 1: eighty nine. So I went and of course he wrote

1424
01:13:19,884 --> 01:13:22,844
Speaker 1: seventy years eighty If you're like, I added ten more

1425
01:13:22,884 --> 01:13:25,684
Speaker 1: years and so I went, okay, assuming I lived ninety years,

1426
01:13:26,085 --> 01:13:28,924
Speaker 1: and then did the count, how many actual days on

1427
01:13:28,964 --> 01:13:30,405
Speaker 1: this earth I would have from that time I was

1428
01:13:30,405 --> 01:13:33,924
Speaker 1: twenty two, twenty two to ninety. And I said to

1429
01:13:33,964 --> 01:13:36,644
Speaker 1: the Lord, because I felt like I'd wasted so many,

1430
01:13:36,804 --> 01:13:40,365
Speaker 1: you know, and I hated that I wasted so many,

1431
01:13:40,604 --> 01:13:43,204
Speaker 1: And I went, Lord, if you give me this amount

1432
01:13:43,205 --> 01:13:45,285
Speaker 1: of days, I will give every single one of them

1433
01:13:45,325 --> 01:13:48,004
Speaker 1: to you and my staff and everyone will tell you,

1434
01:13:48,205 --> 01:13:51,365
Speaker 1: and I have and down to now. I'm just writing

1435
01:13:51,365 --> 01:13:53,485
Speaker 1: a book about wisdom, and I've written about this chapter.

1436
01:13:53,924 --> 01:13:56,604
Speaker 1: And I said, well, now I'm sixty, so I've only

1437
01:13:56,644 --> 01:13:59,285
Speaker 1: got this many days left, assuming of course God could

1438
01:13:59,285 --> 01:14:01,485
Speaker 1: take me home anytime. But I'm just going assuming i'm it.

1439
01:14:02,085 --> 01:14:04,804
Speaker 1: And I think the thing I would say that my

1440
01:14:04,844 --> 01:14:08,044
Speaker 1: younger self, right was I started counting my days because

1441
01:14:08,045 --> 01:14:10,445
Speaker 1: our days count. So I numbered my days because I knew.

1442
01:14:10,724 --> 01:14:13,405
Speaker 1: So I have lived every day knowing my days are numbered,

1443
01:14:13,604 --> 01:14:16,044
Speaker 1: and so that really affects what you do today. And

1444
01:14:16,085 --> 01:14:20,644
Speaker 1: so I could say that, and so you know, when

1445
01:14:20,644 --> 01:14:21,365
Speaker 1: I go having I have.

1446
01:14:21,365 --> 01:14:25,005
Speaker 2: Someone listening, now maybe they're younger or whatever age, Yeah,

1447
01:14:25,125 --> 01:14:28,884
Speaker 2: you know, you like, you can't change what has happened. No,

1448
01:14:29,085 --> 01:14:31,245
Speaker 2: but you have today and you have the days total

1449
01:14:31,325 --> 01:14:34,125
Speaker 2: for you, So they could make a similar commitment to

1450
01:14:34,205 --> 01:14:36,485
Speaker 2: Christ that a younger you need.

1451
01:14:36,764 --> 01:14:38,365
Speaker 1: That's what I think. No matter what age you are,

1452
01:14:38,405 --> 01:14:42,325
Speaker 1: you've only got today. But numbering our days, I mean,

1453
01:14:42,325 --> 01:14:44,405
Speaker 1: if you want a heart of wisdom and to really

1454
01:14:44,485 --> 01:14:48,724
Speaker 1: learn to live wisely, the sooner you number your days

1455
01:14:48,764 --> 01:14:52,205
Speaker 1: because you realize your days are numbered. I always say

1456
01:14:52,205 --> 01:14:55,084
Speaker 1: to people, this is why again we know we're circling

1457
01:14:55,125 --> 01:14:58,325
Speaker 1: back to the eschatology. But I say to people, if

1458
01:14:58,325 --> 01:15:00,804
Speaker 1: it freaks you out that I'm talking about Jesus coming

1459
01:15:00,804 --> 01:15:03,285
Speaker 1: back or the end of the world, whatever, And you go,

1460
01:15:03,604 --> 01:15:05,724
Speaker 1: if I knew Jesus was coming back to me sorrow,

1461
01:15:05,964 --> 01:15:09,044
Speaker 1: I would change. I'd stop doing this this or this,

1462
01:15:09,125 --> 01:15:12,804
Speaker 1: or I'd start doing this. I go, I actually don't understand.

1463
01:15:12,924 --> 01:15:15,004
Speaker 1: Why aren't you doing that or why haven't you stopped

1464
01:15:15,005 --> 01:15:18,684
Speaker 1: doing that? Every Christian ought to live as if it's

1465
01:15:18,684 --> 01:15:22,365
Speaker 1: going to happen tomorrow or today, and plan as if

1466
01:15:22,405 --> 01:15:26,405
Speaker 1: it's not going to happen for generations. So simultaneously, am

1467
01:15:26,445 --> 01:15:30,325
Speaker 1: I doing everything from our ministry, my children? Am I

1468
01:15:30,325 --> 01:15:35,804
Speaker 1: thinking generationally? Absolutely? Am I living as if Jesus could

1469
01:15:35,804 --> 01:15:39,004
Speaker 1: come back today totally. So am I ready as ready

1470
01:15:39,005 --> 01:15:42,365
Speaker 1: as I know how to, you know, and we ought

1471
01:15:42,365 --> 01:15:44,804
Speaker 1: to be. But that, to me is the Christian life.

1472
01:15:45,005 --> 01:15:48,844
Speaker 1: That's how you don't become a lukewarm Christian or just

1473
01:15:48,884 --> 01:15:53,084
Speaker 1: sort of a nominal Christian, because you're in this thing

1474
01:15:53,245 --> 01:15:56,884
Speaker 1: called this world and where you're thinking generationally and you're planning,

1475
01:15:57,205 --> 01:16:01,964
Speaker 1: but you're living urgently. Most Christians live in panic, they

1476
01:16:01,964 --> 01:16:04,564
Speaker 1: don't live urgent. I don't panic, but I'm urgent.

1477
01:16:05,564 --> 01:16:10,084
Speaker 2: Excellent. Yeah. Someone asked del Moody that question, like, you know,

1478
01:16:11,285 --> 01:16:12,924
Speaker 2: what would you do if you knew that this was

1479
01:16:12,964 --> 01:16:14,644
Speaker 2: your last day? He goes, I'd live it as they

1480
01:16:14,844 --> 01:16:17,844
Speaker 2: live every day. I always live in anticipation. And even

1481
01:16:17,884 --> 01:16:19,804
Speaker 2: if it's not the day the Lord would come back,

1482
01:16:19,844 --> 01:16:21,764
Speaker 2: it could be the day when your life ends, what

1483
01:16:21,924 --> 01:16:24,365
Speaker 2: till you go to the afterlife and then there's the

1484
01:16:24,445 --> 01:16:26,764
Speaker 2: rewards and the judgment seat of Christ and all the

1485
01:16:26,804 --> 01:16:29,485
Speaker 2: things you've alluded to. But we don't have to be afraid.

1486
01:16:29,564 --> 01:16:32,284
Speaker 2: It's like Paul said, to live as Christ in the dioscaus.

1487
01:16:32,844 --> 01:16:34,884
Speaker 1: I have a smile on my face because because I

1488
01:16:34,924 --> 01:16:38,405
Speaker 1: really mean it. He's like, even is there a lost

1489
01:16:38,405 --> 01:16:41,285
Speaker 1: suffering grieve. Yes, but I thought we are like those

1490
01:16:41,325 --> 01:16:44,684
Speaker 1: that grieve, we don't agrieve without hope. So there, if

1491
01:16:44,764 --> 01:16:47,044
Speaker 1: Jesus is this hope I have as an anchor for

1492
01:16:47,085 --> 01:16:51,124
Speaker 1: my soul, both firm and secure, that's it'll be. People

1493
01:16:51,405 --> 01:16:55,164
Speaker 1: go to be Chris. That's weird. That's being born again.

1494
01:16:56,165 --> 01:16:57,924
Speaker 1: That's what I would just think. That is the normal

1495
01:16:58,005 --> 01:16:58,644
Speaker 1: Christian life.

1496
01:16:58,924 --> 01:17:01,884
Speaker 2: Yeah, Christine, I'm just so you know, amazed by your

1497
01:17:01,924 --> 01:17:05,964
Speaker 2: life and you know you you could have gone a

1498
01:17:05,964 --> 01:17:09,924
Speaker 2: different direction. You could have been an angry woman and

1499
01:17:10,804 --> 01:17:14,084
Speaker 2: turned against God, and instead you turned to him. And

1500
01:17:14,125 --> 01:17:17,004
Speaker 2: you've taken this pinion use it as a tool to

1501
01:17:17,045 --> 01:17:21,684
Speaker 2: help other people, and they'll listen to you because you know,

1502
01:17:21,764 --> 01:17:26,204
Speaker 2: it's been said that success builds walls and failure builds bridges.

1503
01:17:26,924 --> 01:17:29,324
Speaker 2: So you know, if I'm up there and hey, everything's awesome,

1504
01:17:29,365 --> 01:17:31,124
Speaker 2: and you know I'm all that in a bag of chips,

1505
01:17:31,165 --> 01:17:33,564
Speaker 2: who can relate to that? Well, when you talk about

1506
01:17:33,604 --> 01:17:36,644
Speaker 2: your story and what you've come through and how you've

1507
01:17:36,684 --> 01:17:41,164
Speaker 2: turned to the Lord, you know it can inspire younger people.

1508
01:17:41,285 --> 01:17:45,124
Speaker 2: So let's just end with this question. You know, if

1509
01:17:45,125 --> 01:17:48,605
Speaker 2: there's a young person out there, you know they feel unwanted,

1510
01:17:48,684 --> 01:17:52,845
Speaker 2: they feel unloved. What would you say to them?

1511
01:17:53,165 --> 01:17:56,684
Speaker 1: I want them to know that that God loves them.

1512
01:17:56,684 --> 01:18:00,125
Speaker 1: God sees them, that they called, that they've chosen. You know,

1513
01:18:00,604 --> 01:18:05,084
Speaker 1: I think greg everything's changed and nothing's changed. You know,

1514
01:18:05,325 --> 01:18:09,724
Speaker 1: the very last verse before the four in Genesis two

1515
01:18:09,724 --> 01:18:11,644
Speaker 1: twenty five says Adam and Ebel naked and then knew

1516
01:18:11,684 --> 01:18:17,205
Speaker 1: no shame. There was this unhindered relationship between them and God,

1517
01:18:17,245 --> 01:18:22,004
Speaker 1: and then the enemy came straight in to put something

1518
01:18:22,045 --> 01:18:24,804
Speaker 1: on them they were never created to carry. So why

1519
01:18:24,804 --> 01:18:26,964
Speaker 1: would the Lord tell us you're not supposed to carry shame?

1520
01:18:27,005 --> 01:18:30,164
Speaker 1: Most people carry shame they feel so unseen by God

1521
01:18:30,205 --> 01:18:33,604
Speaker 1: because of guilt, shame, condemnation. I certainly was like that

1522
01:18:33,644 --> 01:18:36,924
Speaker 1: for years. And that's really the enemy because it's like,

1523
01:18:36,964 --> 01:18:39,084
Speaker 1: I'm going to put something on you that you were

1524
01:18:39,085 --> 01:18:41,445
Speaker 1: never created to bear the burden of, so that you

1525
01:18:42,125 --> 01:18:44,804
Speaker 1: run from God instead of two God. And so the

1526
01:18:44,924 --> 01:18:47,004
Speaker 1: three questions in Genesis three is what I want to

1527
01:18:47,045 --> 01:18:50,245
Speaker 1: say to someone, is that the enemy comes in. And

1528
01:18:50,365 --> 01:18:52,325
Speaker 1: you know the first question in the Bible is from

1529
01:18:52,325 --> 01:18:56,244
Speaker 1: the devil? Did God really say? So? I need someone

1530
01:18:56,285 --> 01:19:00,604
Speaker 1: to know the lie you believe is that something God said,

1531
01:19:00,884 --> 01:19:04,164
Speaker 1: or is it something culture says or social media says,

1532
01:19:04,285 --> 01:19:07,004
Speaker 1: or in my case, you know, the abuser said, or

1533
01:19:07,125 --> 01:19:10,365
Speaker 1: you know, whatever happened, Did God really say that? Or

1534
01:19:12,285 --> 01:19:14,644
Speaker 1: was it the enemy or culture or society? You know?

1535
01:19:14,724 --> 01:19:17,285
Speaker 1: And then the Lord says the same thing. He goes,

1536
01:19:17,325 --> 01:19:19,604
Speaker 1: you know, where are you? You're the first question God

1537
01:19:19,644 --> 01:19:21,485
Speaker 1: asks in the Bible, and I think the Lord would

1538
01:19:21,485 --> 01:19:24,445
Speaker 1: be asking that to us every day. And someone he said,

1539
01:19:24,564 --> 01:19:27,044
Speaker 1: where are you? Where is the you that I created?

1540
01:19:27,205 --> 01:19:29,564
Speaker 1: Where is the youth full of God given potential, the

1541
01:19:29,604 --> 01:19:33,365
Speaker 1: you that I love? And then, you know, Adam first

1542
01:19:33,564 --> 01:19:37,245
Speaker 1: record a conversation between Adam and God was fear, shame

1543
01:19:37,285 --> 01:19:39,525
Speaker 1: and hiding. It was, you know, I was naked and

1544
01:19:39,564 --> 01:19:41,804
Speaker 1: afraid and so I hid. And I think that's how

1545
01:19:41,844 --> 01:19:44,804
Speaker 1: we talk to God. I'm afraid or I'm naked, you know,

1546
01:19:44,884 --> 01:19:46,405
Speaker 1: and so I'm hiding. And I'm like, you don't have

1547
01:19:46,405 --> 01:19:48,285
Speaker 1: to talk to God like that. You could talk to

1548
01:19:48,365 --> 01:19:51,485
Speaker 1: him as a son, as a daughter, knowing that you

1549
01:19:51,485 --> 01:19:55,644
Speaker 1: are fully loved, fully known, fully seen, fully forgiven because

1550
01:19:55,684 --> 01:19:58,244
Speaker 1: of the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the grass,

1551
01:19:58,485 --> 01:20:01,924
Speaker 1: he sees you. And then you know, the Lord asked him,

1552
01:20:01,924 --> 01:20:04,085
Speaker 1: He goes, who told you? And I think that's the

1553
01:20:04,125 --> 01:20:07,365
Speaker 1: thing that you've got to understand, who told you the

1554
01:20:07,405 --> 01:20:11,445
Speaker 1: lie that you believe? And will you elevate the voice

1555
01:20:11,485 --> 01:20:13,485
Speaker 1: of God above every other voice in your life? Because

1556
01:20:13,485 --> 01:20:15,924
Speaker 1: the voice of God says, you're loved, you're chosen, you're forgiven,

1557
01:20:16,644 --> 01:20:19,684
Speaker 1: you're not condemned, you're valued. And I think we're living

1558
01:20:19,684 --> 01:20:22,044
Speaker 1: in a world where we're bombarded with so much noise,

1559
01:20:22,525 --> 01:20:25,164
Speaker 1: and you've got to choose what voices you. With social media,

1560
01:20:26,285 --> 01:20:29,284
Speaker 1: you've got to turn it off because it's the same

1561
01:20:29,525 --> 01:20:31,964
Speaker 1: conversation almost that was happening in the Garden of Eden.

1562
01:20:32,205 --> 01:20:34,604
Speaker 1: It still exists in twenty twenty six of planet Earth,

1563
01:20:34,844 --> 01:20:37,564
Speaker 1: but it's amplified with social media and everything. So it's

1564
01:20:37,604 --> 01:20:40,684
Speaker 1: you know, did God really say? Now? Again, anytime the

1565
01:20:40,964 --> 01:20:43,764
Speaker 1: enemy wants to undermine a generation, he's going to try

1566
01:20:43,764 --> 01:20:45,724
Speaker 1: to undermine the authority of the word of God. So

1567
01:20:45,764 --> 01:20:47,884
Speaker 1: we're living in another cycle of that. You and I've

1568
01:20:47,924 --> 01:20:50,245
Speaker 1: lived long enough where it's like this word's not really

1569
01:20:50,245 --> 01:20:52,924
Speaker 1: true to God. They say to God, really say you know?

1570
01:20:53,205 --> 01:20:56,604
Speaker 1: And it's like, yes, so, And I think knowing what

1571
01:20:56,644 --> 01:21:00,485
Speaker 1: God says, that knowing where you are. Are you in

1572
01:21:00,564 --> 01:21:02,684
Speaker 1: hiding or is it time to run to him and

1573
01:21:02,764 --> 01:21:07,004
Speaker 1: take your all, your brokenness, your pain, yourself to him,

1574
01:21:07,684 --> 01:21:12,004
Speaker 1: knowing that He forgives us pels is if you confess

1575
01:21:12,045 --> 01:21:14,245
Speaker 1: your sin. This was the most liberating thing I ever heard.

1576
01:21:14,525 --> 01:21:16,724
Speaker 1: That He is faithful and just to forgive me my

1577
01:21:16,964 --> 01:21:20,125
Speaker 1: sin and cleanse me from all on righteousness. And I

1578
01:21:20,165 --> 01:21:23,004
Speaker 1: want someone to know that God is light and in

1579
01:21:23,085 --> 01:21:24,764
Speaker 1: him there is no darkness. If you're like me and

1580
01:21:24,804 --> 01:21:28,405
Speaker 1: you come from a background of abuse or pain or suffering,

1581
01:21:28,764 --> 01:21:31,764
Speaker 1: it's hard to trust people. But when I realize that

1582
01:21:31,804 --> 01:21:34,725
Speaker 1: God is light and that he has no dark side,

1583
01:21:34,884 --> 01:21:36,884
Speaker 1: people have a dark side. God doesn't.

1584
01:21:36,884 --> 01:21:37,445
Speaker 2: That's true.

1585
01:21:37,525 --> 01:21:39,364
Speaker 1: God is light and in him there is no darkness.

1586
01:21:39,644 --> 01:21:42,724
Speaker 1: You can fully trust him. That's what I want to

1587
01:21:42,724 --> 01:21:43,124
Speaker 1: tell people.

1588
01:21:44,445 --> 01:21:44,724
Speaker 2: Thanks,