1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 2: Game for Jesus and get sobriety thrown in aame for sobriety. 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 2: You may get it, and millions of people in the 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 2: world have. But what I've come to find is that 5 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 2: as a Christian, I am called to let you the 6 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 2: world know that I truly believe the most flourishing, fulfilled 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 2: life now and in eternity is a life with Jesus. 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 2: So why do we turn that off when it comes 9 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: to sobriety. 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 3: Welcome to Love Life Sober. I'm your host and your coach, 11 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 3: Christy Osborne. This podcast is for the woman who loves 12 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 3: Jesus or is longing to reconnect with him, and who 13 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,599 Speaker 3: knows deep down that alcohol is no longer serving her. 14 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 3: Here we talk honestly, with grace and truth about how 15 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 3: stepping away from alcohol opens the door to the love, joy, 16 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 3: peace and connection you've been searching for. Because, Babe, those 17 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 3: things were never meant to be found in a bottle 18 00:00:55,560 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 3: of wine. They're found in Jesus. Through scripture, coaching and neuroscience, 19 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 3: I'll help you make sense of your habits, your nervous system, 20 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 3: and what you're really craving so that freedom feels not 21 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 3: only possible, but sustainable. You don't have to do this alone, babe. 22 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 3: Let's dive in. Hello, friends, welcome to this week's episode 23 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 3: of Love Life Sober. 24 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 4: I am so glad that you are here. 25 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 3: Members of our Love Life Sober community are very familiar 26 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 3: already with our guest today, John Seidel, my friend who 27 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 3: gave an incredible masterclass a few months ago all on 28 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 3: the power of radical vulnerability. 29 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 4: It is in the. 30 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 3: Replay section of the community if you haven't had a 31 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 3: chance to listen to it yet, I definitely would bookmark 32 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 3: that masterclass and go back and listen to it because 33 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 3: it was so powerful and I had such great feedback 34 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 3: from it. If you don't know John, he is the 35 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 3: author of Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic. He also is 36 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 3: the founder of Veraitas Recovery and he writes an incredible substack, 37 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 3: which you can finally on my Substack. He is also 38 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 3: going to be one of our speakers at the Aligned 39 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:09,839 Speaker 3: conference coming up in September, which we are so excited for. 40 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 3: There's already so many of you gals that have book 41 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 3: tickets and it's just going to be a really, really 42 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 3: incredible time. So John is our token male guest for 43 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 3: the three day conference. So this conversation is going to 44 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 3: give you a chance to get to know John a 45 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 3: little bit more. He and I both agree that the 46 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 3: conversations around sobriety and recovery are actually not about alcohol 47 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 3: at all. 48 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 4: They are ultimately about Jesus. 49 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 3: We're going to talk about language like alcoholic, sober and 50 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 3: recovery and how that language can define a struggle for 51 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 3: us without becoming our identity. You also talk about why 52 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 3: the goal isn't about white knuckling your way into an 53 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 3: alcohol free life, but seeking Jesus. John is going to 54 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 3: tell his story, including his journey to sobriety. So if 55 00:02:59,919 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 3: you don't have his book, Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic, 56 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 3: go get it. I'll link it in the show notes 57 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 3: and come hang out with us at ALIGNED in September. 58 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 3: We are going to have so much fun at the 59 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 3: first ever Women's Christian Sobriety Conference. I can't wait. Okay, 60 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 3: here is this week's episode fun Welcome to the Love 61 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 3: Life Silver Podcast. It's a very full circle moment that 62 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 3: I get to say that to you. 63 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 2: By the way, It's funny because you and I have 64 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: become really good friends, and so I think we talked 65 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 2: for twenty minutes before we even hit record, and we're like, hey, 66 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: we should probably just like hit record and start doing 67 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: this because Christy, you have become someone who has supported me. 68 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 2: And what is I think so great is we have 69 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: found a common goal. And what you and I have 70 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: discovered is that in this line of work, which that 71 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: sounds weird, but like when we're talking about sobriety, when 72 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: we're talking about recovery, is that what you and I 73 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 2: are all about is actually not what a lot of 74 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: other people are about me. Yeah, and a lot of 75 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: people in this space are about sobriety, and you and 76 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: I are not about sobriety. And so it has been 77 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: so encouraging to get to know you in your work 78 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 2: and support your work. 79 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: And send women to you and uh, and so I'm 80 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: excited to be here. 81 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 4: Yeah. And I was thinking about that. 82 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 3: Too before we started talking about all the things, is 83 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 3: that I don't really know anybody else who talks about 84 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 3: this in the same way as you and I do 85 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 3: of that, and that's really what I want to drill 86 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 3: down on and call this episode is like, this is 87 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 3: actually not about sobriety, which is so upside down. 88 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Yeah, and we have and we have other 89 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 2: friends in this space and they're doing great work. 90 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 3: Oh yes, no shade, and they've all been on this 91 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 3: podcast already. 92 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, their value proposition is not just 93 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 2: for Christians, is not. And that's great, and we need people, 94 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 2: we need those people to be reached. But you and 95 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 2: I are taking a very distinctly what I will say, 96 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 2: Jesus first approach, and that's what the Lord has called 97 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: us to do. 98 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. 99 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 3: Can we stop for a second and just talk about 100 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 3: the words, like all these words, because I feel like 101 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 3: I get those questions a lot. I've had it about 102 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 3: your book and I've had it about my book, like 103 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 3: why do you use the word alcoholic? Why do I 104 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 3: use the word sober? Why do we sometimes use the 105 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 3: word recovery. So let's talk about all that for a second, 106 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 3: because that's actually something that someone asked me. You're going 107 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 3: to be doing a masterclass for us tomorrow, sorry to 108 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 3: those gals that are listening, because it's since past. However, 109 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 3: I record all of our master classes in the Love 110 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 3: Life Sober Community, and so you can rewatch John's incredible 111 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 3: master class which we're recording tomorrow. But that is one 112 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 3: of the questions that I got yesterday, I think on 113 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 3: a coaching call, was but like alcoholic, why does he 114 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 3: use that? Yeah, if you don't, and why are you 115 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 3: guys such good friends? Love that question? Okay, So I'll 116 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 3: break it down in two ways. The first way is this, 117 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 3: I use it as a descriptor not an identity statement. 118 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 3: And I'm not just trying to parse words there when 119 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 3: I say the word alcoholic, I the first way that 120 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 3: I'm using it is as a description of what and 121 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 3: how my body and the physiological idea, not as a disease. Right. 122 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 2: I don't subscribe to the idea of addiction as disease model, 123 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 2: which is a whole branch of debate. What I have 124 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 2: come to find out is that for me, the only 125 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 2: drink I can say no to is the first one. 126 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 2: And so like when I start drinking, something flips and 127 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 2: I can't stop. Now, it's not like an out of 128 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,559 Speaker 2: body experience. Right. My point is, and this is where 129 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: this is where the faith aspect comes in, the point 130 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 2: is that we are all born with certain sins, sin proclivities. Right, 131 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 2: this person has a desire for X. I have a 132 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 2: desire for why, and my sin proclivities make it such 133 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 2: that the brokenness that entered the world, that entered my 134 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 2: soul when I was born, makes it so that when 135 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 2: I start drinking alcohol, I just don't have a governor switch. 136 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 2: So it's a physiological descriptor to start with, again, not 137 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 2: an identity statement, right. And in fact, I write in 138 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 2: my book that one of the reasons I didn't do 139 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 2: AA is because the way that I have seen it 140 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 2: done is that in AA in twelve step programs, it 141 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: becomes an identity statement. Now, but John, you have alcoholic 142 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 2: in the title of your book. Yes, Again, the first 143 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 2: explanation is because I'm using it as a descriptor of 144 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: a physiological happening. Right. Two, When I say that, a 145 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 2: lot of people automatically understand at least I have a 146 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 2: box for that. 147 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: I know what you're saying. 148 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 2: So that's why it's like, well, right now, it's called 149 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 2: alcohol use disorder. Well, I'm not going to put Confessions 150 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 2: of a Christian with Alcohol Use Disorder, right, Like, not 151 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 2: many people like what's that? Or it's not catchy? You know, 152 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: it probably wouldn't fit on a book. Right, So as 153 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 2: soon as you say alcoholic people, at. 154 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: Least now and I talk about this in the book. 155 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: They a lot of times they go to an extreme 156 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: vision of what that is, but they at least understand 157 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 2: what that is. 158 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: So that's the second reason. 159 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 2: The third reason, and this to me is one of 160 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 2: the most important, is that when I look at people 161 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: like Paul and Matthew, they are constantly reminding us. 162 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: Of who they were. 163 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 2: I recently graduated seminary and so I did kind of 164 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 2: a study on all the times that Paul in his 165 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 2: letters mentions who he used to be and what he 166 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 2: used to do. And it is a lot. I mean 167 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 2: I filled up three slides on a presentation. So Paul 168 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 2: talks about like I was always I was persecuting the 169 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 2: way right, that's what they called Christian. I was persecuting 170 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 2: the way to the death. I was doing this. I 171 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 2: was doing that. Wait, don't forget, wretched man that I 172 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: am chief of sinners. And then you have Matthew, and 173 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 2: I love this. Brennan Manning points us out he was 174 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 2: a very famous Christian alcoholic. He says, you know, when 175 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 2: you look at Mark, Luke and John those gospels, whenever 176 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 2: whenever they mention Matthew, they talk about they mentioned Matthew 177 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 2: or Levi, right, that was his other name. But when 178 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: Matthew in his own gospel talks about himself, he's always saying, 179 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 2: Matthew the publican, it's just the tax collector. And Brennan says, 180 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: you know, Matthew is always in our face about who 181 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 2: he was and what he did, because he wants you 182 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: to know how low Jesus had to stoop to rescue him. 183 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 2: And so I look at Paul, I look at Matthew, 184 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 2: and they are not running from who they were. 185 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: They are constantly throwing it in your face. No, look, look, look. 186 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: And so for me, that third reason is alcoholic. 187 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 2: Right, that was where my sin issue, my bent towards sin, 188 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 2: if you will, is and I want you to remember 189 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 2: and know this is what Jesus had to do you 190 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 2: to rescue me. So that's why I use the term. 191 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 2: It's not an identity statement, it's a descriptor. And I 192 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 2: think people can you know, really kind of at least 193 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 2: get that quick idea of what I'm talking about. 194 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:14,479 Speaker 1: So that's the explanation. 195 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm so glad that you said that, and I'm 196 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 3: so glad that you went through all of that. I 197 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 3: never thought of it that way of the disciples constantly 198 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 3: going back to who they were. I love that so 199 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 3: so much, And I think the same is true for 200 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 3: the word sober, Like some gals don't like the word sober. 201 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 3: I mean, sober minded is obviously in the Bible, but 202 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 3: to me, it also never carried that weight. So that's 203 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 3: something that I think that we both and I know 204 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 3: the gals in the community talk about all the time. 205 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 3: It's like you get to choose right, like, yes, what 206 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 3: feels good to you, but daughter of the King, Son 207 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 3: of the King should be number one, and then you 208 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 3: get to go from there. So talk about the struggle, 209 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 3: like about being in that place of being a very 210 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 3: accomplished best selling off and being like, oh my gosh, 211 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 3: I can't talk about this. 212 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and what that was like. 213 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 2: I mean, in general, I think my relationship with alcohol 214 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 2: is always up and down, right, And so I talk 215 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: about in the book, even just the first time I 216 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 2: got drunk, which was you know, my preteen, early teenage years. 217 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 2: It's interesting I was talking to someone on my podcast 218 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 2: about this and made a very similar experience where you 219 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 2: get drunk for the first time, and even though that 220 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 2: did not start this like immediate, you know, downward spiral. 221 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 2: It was like what I got in that moment was 222 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 2: instant relief, and I always remembered that, and my body 223 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 2: remember that, and my mind remembered that that like, for 224 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 2: that moment, I didn't have to worry about anything and 225 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: I could be present, the racing mind was calm. So 226 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 2: I always had that in a sense in the back 227 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 2: of my head. And I didn't really drink until I 228 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 2: turned twenty one. Made up for some lost time in 229 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 2: my final year of college, even though I went to 230 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: like a Christian college and whatnot. But it was up 231 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 2: and down from there. You know, times of stress, I 232 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 2: would drink more and then I'd cut back, And you know, 233 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 2: I subscribed to I think the idea that you and 234 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 2: I see a lot, which is if I can cut back, 235 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 2: if I can stop for a little bit, then I 236 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 2: don't have a problem. Having a problem with alcohol in 237 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 2: my mind, was only defined by two things. 238 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: Frequency and quantity. Yeah, and sure those. 239 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 2: Are some indicators of whether you have a problem, but 240 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 2: they are not the only indicators, especially as a Christian, right, yes, 241 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 2: and so in my book, I say, like anything that 242 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 2: is misordered is disordered. Right as a Christian, anything that 243 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 2: you place on the throne of your heart, even if 244 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 2: you're not getting drunk is a problem. Right. So you 245 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,079 Speaker 2: fast forward twenty twenty one, I released this best selling 246 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 2: book on faith in mental health. I'm in a good spot. 247 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 2: I even write in that book, Hey, I know I 248 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 2: have to be careful about how much I drink because 249 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 2: I know it can be you know, something I turn 250 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 2: to in times of stress, right, so aware like all 251 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 2: the things. 252 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: But then I thought I'd gone through the hardest part 253 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: of my life already. 254 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 2: And then I really would I had more coming. And 255 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 2: so fall of twenty twenty one, I had my own 256 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 2: consulting business. I had a massive client, was making the 257 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 2: most money of my life. I lose that client two 258 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 2: weeks before Christmas. They reorganize, I'm a contractor. They're like, sorry, 259 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 2: you're done. I published the book in that same fall 260 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, and I just realized I had You know, Christy, 261 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 2: you've been through this. You have these expectations, you have 262 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 2: like I think it's going to do this, or I 263 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 2: want it to do this. 264 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: I want to make this list. 265 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 2: And even though I made you know, bestseller lists and 266 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: had great interviews, I was just always looking at, well, 267 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 2: what's the one that I didn't get. The devil just 268 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 2: started creeping in to whisper lies in my ear lies. 269 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: That went back to childhood traumas and just stuff of 270 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 2: like you're not worthy. You know, people don't really want 271 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 2: to hear what you have to say. They're going to 272 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 2: forget about you really quickly, just all just stuff, right, yeah. 273 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 2: I and then you start putting that stress on of 274 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 2: losing the job, and I just start listening slowly. It's 275 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 2: not all at once. I just start drinking more and 276 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 2: more and more. You fast forward to that that following spring, 277 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 2: my son is diagnosed with a tumor in his shin. 278 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 2: And even though that ends up being benign again, it 279 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: just it's easier to pile on the drinks. Yeah, and 280 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 2: so you know, a nightcap at eight became three, eight 281 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 2: became five, five became five o'clock somewhere, you know, and 282 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 2: it's just I mean, you know this, right, and so 283 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 2: you just I'm drinking more and more and that just 284 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 2: increases until it really hits ahead in May of twenty 285 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 2: twenty three, where I'm drinking to excess pretty much every night. 286 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 2: And that's like drinking this you know, buzz whatever, you know, 287 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 2: and my wife and I go on an anniversary tip 288 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: to Miami and we're staying on South Beach. There's one 289 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 2: night she's like, I'd like to stay. I just kind 290 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 2: of like to have a night in. And she's like, 291 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 2: you can do whatever you want. But here's the thing, 292 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 2: like I wasn't. I was never a party drinker. When 293 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 2: your wife says you can do whatever you want, my 294 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 2: inclination is not I want to go out to a club, 295 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 2: you know, it's like, oh, this is a this is 296 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 2: an opportunity to just be alone and drink, right, because 297 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 2: I was always I was just shut my mind off drinker, 298 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 2: A be alone drinker. I just don't want to think drinker. 299 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 2: And so I say, well, I'm just gonna go down 300 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 2: to the hotel bar. There's NBA playoffs, NHL playoffs. I'll 301 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 2: grab a couple appetizers, a drink or two, and I'll 302 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 2: come back up. And she looks at me because at 303 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 2: this point I think I'm hiding it really well. Yeah, 304 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 2: and I am hiding a chunk of it, but it's 305 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 2: starting to break through, the cracks starting to seep through. 306 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: And she looks at me and she says, okay, but 307 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: don't get drunk. 308 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 2: And I can tell you Christy that with everything within me, 309 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 2: you could have hooked me up to a lie detector 310 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 2: and I would have passed. I said, I would not 311 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 2: get drunk. Well, I go down to the hotel bar 312 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 2: and for a guy who wrote a book called Professions 313 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 2: of a Christian Alcoholic, you can probably imagine is that 314 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 2: I have my first drink. 315 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: I don't know how many I have after that. 316 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 2: By the end of the night, which is really the 317 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 2: beginning of the next morning, I have a triple digit 318 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 2: bar tab and I am wasted, and I'm like, I 319 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 2: cannot go back up to the hotel like this. 320 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 3: We'll be back right after a quick word from our sponsors. 321 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 2: So I said, well, the only thing can serve you 322 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 2: up is time, and so I crossed the ocean drive. 323 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 2: I end up on South Beach on the beach and 324 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm just gonna sit here until I sober up. 325 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: And pretty quickly I get. 326 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 2: Down there and I don't know if you've ever been 327 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 2: down to South Beach, Miami at one in the morning, 328 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 2: but it's it's a lot. 329 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 4: Lessie went to the championship game. Thank you very much. 330 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: There you go. 331 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 3: We're here of college. So I have lived your story. Yeah, 332 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 3: it's so like South in the club. 333 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, South Beach, Miami at one in the morning 334 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 2: is pretty happen. I get down there and I have 335 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: to go to the bathroom. Well, I shut the hotel 336 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 2: bar down right, so I can't go there. There's all 337 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 2: these people around. I can't just go, you know here. 338 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 2: And so I look and I'm like, well, I got 339 00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 2: the world's biggest toilet in. 340 00:16:59,000 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: Front of me. 341 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: Much And so I wade into the ocean with all 342 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 2: my clothes on, and I start going to the bathroom 343 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: and it starts coming out of both ends, and I 344 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 2: just have this realization of like, what has my life become? 345 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 2: Like I truly set out not to get drunk tonight, 346 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 2: and this is what happens, Like I have completely lost control. Yeah, 347 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 2: And the next day, like I lied. My wife asked 348 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 2: me about it. I lie to her. But then I 349 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 2: finally break down at the end of the night and 350 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: I say, hey, you know I did get drunk, And 351 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 2: you know she's she's devastated. And I am making all 352 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 2: the promises I'll never drink again. I have a problem. 353 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 2: I start I can't stop, you know, all that stuff, 354 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 2: and She looks at me, and she says, John, I 355 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 2: don't want you to promise me to never drink again. Like, 356 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: I don't care if you never drink again. That's not 357 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 2: what I want. I want you to get to the 358 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 2: root of why, yeah, you drink. And I'm thinking in 359 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 2: my head, can we go back to the not drinking part? 360 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 2: Like that would be easier, right, Like I don't want 361 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 2: to have to dig into the stuff because I think 362 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 2: what I found. 363 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 4: Why did she know to ask that? By the way, 364 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 4: that's so, I. 365 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 2: Mean, I know, right, And like every time I tell 366 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: this story, nine times out of ten everyone says that, 367 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 2: and I just like, it's the Holy Spirit. 368 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 4: I was gonna say that. 369 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, And she's a wise woman, right, And I think 370 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 2: because she had seen me, you know, I had battled 371 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 2: a porn addiction up until this, like earlier in our marriage, 372 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 2: and I just think she had seen and she had 373 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 2: known that I had gone through traumas as a kid 374 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 2: where I was molested by my sister. My stepdad, you know, 375 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 2: was abusive for a time, and so she had known 376 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 2: that I had these unhealed you know, things that I 377 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 2: had just never really dealt with. And I had talked 378 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 2: about in my first book, I talked about the benefit 379 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 2: of counseling, like I had gone to counseling for my 380 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 2: anxiety and OCD, but I'd never gone to like a 381 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 2: trauma therapist, and so she had known that, and so 382 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:56,959 Speaker 2: she's like, you just you have to go through that. 383 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't want to go through that, 384 00:18:58,760 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 1: Like I don't want to dig this up. 385 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 2: There are parts of ourselves that we will give over 386 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 2: to Jesus, and it's great and the health and those 387 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,479 Speaker 2: parts that he that we let him in, like they 388 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 2: write a best selling book on faith and mental health. 389 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 2: But then there are those other parts of ourselves that 390 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 2: we wall off. And it's like it's not necessarily just that, like, hey, 391 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 2: I don't want Jesus in there. It's like if I 392 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 2: have to let Jesus in there, that means I have 393 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 2: to go in there, right, and I don't want to 394 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 2: face that. And so that's what that's what was at 395 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 2: work in me. It's like I just I didn't want 396 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 2: to go there. Yeah, and so she said, it's just 397 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 2: going to be something else unless you get to the root, 398 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 2: you're just going to try to heal it or you know, 399 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 2: fix it. With something else, and so my commitment to 400 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 2: her that day was I literally sent an inquiry form 401 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 2: to a Christian trauma therapist on the beach that night, 402 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 2: and that's what I started doing when we got back. 403 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 2: And it was a slow process. It was a year 404 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 2: long of intense therapy E M. D R therapy, IFS therapy, 405 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 2: I mean just inviting Jesus in, you know, through a 406 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 2: Christian lens. And it was hard, but the light slowly 407 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 2: started to come back. And in that process I kind 408 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 2: of came to understand, well, what did I do differently 409 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 2: this time? Right, Like I got like nine months removed 410 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 2: from it, and I'm like, okay, this is stuck. And 411 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 2: I started to really kind of be convicted of like 412 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 2: I didn't shoot for sobriety this time, shoot for Jesus. 413 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 2: And that's where I started to develop kind of the 414 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 2: idea and the philosophy behind the book, which is going 415 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 2: back to C. S. Lewis, he has this line in 416 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 2: Mere Christianity that he says, aim for heaven and get 417 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 2: the and get the world thrown in. But if you 418 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 2: aim for the world, you're. 419 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: Likely miss it. 420 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 2: And so for me, I was like aim aim for 421 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 2: Jesus and get sobriety thrown in aim for sobriety. You 422 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 2: may get it, and millions of people in the world have. 423 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 2: But what I've come to find is that and this 424 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 2: is as a Christian. This is not this shouldn't be 425 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 2: a controversial thing, and yet it is. As a Christian, 426 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,479 Speaker 2: I am called to let you the world know that 427 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 2: I truly believe the most flourishing, fulfilled life now and 428 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 2: an eternity is a life with Jesus. So why do 429 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 2: we turn that off when it comes to sobriety? Why 430 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 2: did we turn that off when it comes to our drinking? Right? 431 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: Like that has to carry over into everything. 432 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 2: And so what I'm saying now is I want you 433 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 2: to have Jesus, if you if you truly have Jesus right, 434 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 2: if you truly give him over. And some people are like, well, 435 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 2: I'm a Christian, I've given myself over to Jesus and 436 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 2: I still can't find sobriety. And what I would say, 437 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 2: and this sometimes this is hard for people to hear, 438 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: is you have not given yourself over to Jesus in 439 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 2: the way that he has told you to give himself over. 440 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 2: Because if you have, if you do, I'm not saying 441 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 2: that you won't struggle still with wanting to drink. 442 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, or by the way, other things as well, when you've. 443 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 2: See amen, amen, but you have not fully turned your 444 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 2: life over to him in those ways. 445 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 1: And that's people, what are you talking about? 446 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 2: I read my Bible and I'm like, it's not just 447 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 2: about reading your Bible. It's about an abiding relationship with Jesus. 448 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 2: What does that look like? So that's the story. 449 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 3: There's a difference, right, And this is this is so 450 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 3: important between salvation and sanctification and being formed and discipleship 451 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 3: and all of that stuff. And I think that so 452 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 3: many gals that I talked to and gals and guys 453 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 3: that you talk to, it's like, well, I shouldn't struggle 454 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 3: with this, or God's not showing up for me. He 455 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 3: should just I hear that all the time. Why want 456 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 3: you just take the desire to drink away? And I'm like, sister, 457 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 3: listen to me. He wants to teach you a million 458 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 3: things before. Maybe I don't know, but like before he 459 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 3: does that, and losing the desire to drink shouldn't be 460 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 3: the end goal, right. And this is beth More focus 461 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 3: on the deliverer, not being delivered. It's just that when 462 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 3: you're constantly focusing on and I've heard it so many 463 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 3: times even in this last week, failed it dry January, 464 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 3: I failed it. You're fast. I failed. And I'm like, babe, 465 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 3: why did I tell you? Call number one? Like, we're 466 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 3: not We're not aiming for alcohol free, We're aiming for Jesus. 467 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think think Jesus wants your heart. He 468 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 2: doesn't want your sobriety. And people are like, wait, what 469 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 2: in the end, what does the scripture say? 470 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: You can gain the. 471 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 2: Whole world right and lose your soul if you take 472 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 2: out world and put in what you are most striving for. 473 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 2: You can gain the money of a thousand kings, but 474 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 2: lose your soul. You can gain perfect parenthood, but lose 475 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 2: your soul. You can gain sobriety, but lose your soul. Right, 476 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 2: Jesus wants your heart? 477 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: Now? 478 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 2: Is it true that if you are struggling with drinking 479 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 2: that sobriety is a good goal and a good thing. Absolutely, 480 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 2: But in the end, what Jesus wants most of all 481 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 2: of your heart? Now, some people I don't want you 482 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 2: to hear this and say, well, John said that it 483 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 2: doesn't sobriety doesn't matter. So as long as I'm loving Jesus, 484 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 2: then I can drink it however much I want. Well, James, 485 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 2: the Book of James is very clear that if the 486 00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 2: Holy Spirit. 487 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: Is convicting you have something and you don't do it, 488 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 1: it's sin. 489 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 2: So chances are, if you're listening to this podcast, if 490 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 2: you're in the Love Life Sober community, you are being 491 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 2: convicted about your drinking. It's just true. And so what 492 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 2: I'm saying is not an excuse for you to be like, well, 493 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 2: I can have both things. No, if the Holy Spirit 494 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 2: is convicting you of your drinking, then giving Jesus your 495 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 2: heart involves giving him your drinking, and so that, in 496 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 2: the end is what I am most concerned with. Giving 497 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 2: him your drinking is a way for you to show 498 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,719 Speaker 2: sacrifice and obedience. And on the other side of sacrifice 499 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 2: and obedience is a flourishing that you can't imagine. 500 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, you just literally walked right into the questions that 501 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 3: I've wanted to add. We'll be back right after a 502 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 3: quick word from our sponsors. Babe, Can I pause us 503 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 3: just for a moment If you're listening to this and 504 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,719 Speaker 3: thinking I don't want to do this alone anymore. I 505 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 3: want to tell you about the Love Life Sober Community. 506 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 3: This is the space where the podcast turns into real 507 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 3: connection and real support. Inside the community, we gather weekly 508 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 3: for live connection calls where you can listen, share, or 509 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 3: simply be present. There's a beautiful leadership team holding this 510 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 3: space with wisdom and care, a dedicated prayer request area 511 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 3: where you can be covered, regular masterclasses led by expert guests, 512 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 3: and even a worship music playlist to help you reconnect 513 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 3: when your nervous system needs it. Inside the community, there's 514 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 3: also a dedicated coaching space called True Vine for women 515 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 3: who want even deeper support. The Love Life Sober Community 516 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 3: is a place to connect with like minded women and 517 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 3: open up in a way you might not be able 518 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 3: to in your church or small group. This space was 519 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 3: created specifically for women who are questioning their relationship with 520 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 3: alcohol and who want the kind of freedom that can 521 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 3: only be found in Jesus. All the details to join 522 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 3: us are at the link in the show notes. I 523 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 3: can't wait to meet you all right, Let's jump back 524 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 3: into the ic think that so many times goals and 525 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 3: guys and everybody thinks this is something that like, oh, yes, 526 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 3: we have to lay this down because God doesn't want 527 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,479 Speaker 3: us to have any fun, and he wants us to 528 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 3: just walk around and be a whole and not have 529 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 3: any fun or relax or connect. 530 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 4: And that's just so not true. 531 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 3: Everything that he asks us to do, and I'm learning 532 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 3: this more and more as I get older and older, 533 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 3: is every single thing that He asks us to do 534 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 3: is actually for us. And sobriety is totally one of 535 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 3: those things. 536 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's you know the scripture and I can't remember. 537 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 2: I think it's in Psalms, but basically where he says 538 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 2: at his right hand are pleasures forevermore. 539 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 4: Mm hmm. 540 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 2: It's things that it's something we say we believe as Christians, 541 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,239 Speaker 2: but we don't really embody it is one of the 542 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 2: most basic beliefs is that what God tells us to 543 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,880 Speaker 2: do is for our good, and we just don't live 544 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 2: like that, and so we live like he's trying to 545 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 2: take stuff away from us. And really what he's saying 546 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 2: to us constantly is I'm trying to give you pleasures 547 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 2: forever more. 548 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: And so here's to your point. 549 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 2: On this other side is I have experienced joy, peace, 550 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 2: life to its fullest, greater than what I ever thought. 551 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 1: Now here's the distinction. 552 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 2: It has been harder to be like what, Yes, life 553 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 2: has been harder since getting sober. Think about that, Like 554 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: you took away my main coping mechanism for whenever things 555 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 2: got hard. Right. So, yeah, alcohol is a cheap, easy 556 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 2: form of escape. 557 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: And if it wasn't cheap. 558 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 2: Easy, quick, effective, we wouldn't fall for it, right, But 559 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,959 Speaker 2: it is so when stresses come now I have to 560 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,360 Speaker 2: force myself to Jesus and what is there is greater? Right, 561 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 2: But it's not easier. It's easier when i'm building something 562 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 2: you know that you and I have been talking about, 563 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 2: when I'm building a community for people and especially men 564 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 2: to talk about these things like there's a lot. 565 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: That has come my way. Oh my gosh. 566 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 2: The government shutdown in the US has made it so 567 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 2: that I can't get an EI in Well, I can't 568 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 2: open a bank account. 569 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 1: Lord, you've called me to do this. I can't even 570 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,199 Speaker 1: open a bank account. People want to donate money and 571 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: I can't receive it. What's you know? 572 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 2: Like, you know, in a previous you know life, three 573 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 2: years ago, I just would have been like, oh that's fine, 574 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 2: I'll just have some drinks. You know, and that'll call 575 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 2: my nerves and whatnot. And it did, right, But now 576 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 2: I'm forced to bring that to Jesus. 577 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: I'm forced to pray myself to sleep. 578 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 2: Literally, it's not easier, but it is better, right, And 579 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 2: that's the distinction that I'm learning harder if you will 580 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: can still be better. 581 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's where. 582 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 2: I've landed, and it has been you know, I have 583 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 2: found those pleasures forever more. 584 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 4: Yeah. 585 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 3: And I think that the refiner's fire is hot, and 586 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 3: being molded as the clay of the potter is probably 587 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 3: not always fun, yes, but it hurts and it is hard. 588 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 4: It totally is, but that's okay. And I think that 589 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 4: as long as you keep seeking Jesus and know him truly, 590 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 4: then you know it's for you, right, And so all 591 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 4: the hard it's like, okay, God, I don't know what 592 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 4: you're doing. This is not fun, but your plan is better. 593 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 3: And that is something that I always just constantly feel 594 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 3: like I'm saying on the loop to the gals in 595 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 3: my community, is just like his timing is perfect. I 596 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 3: don't know, I don't know why you're here for a 597 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 3: fourth fast, but I know that you've learned a million 598 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 3: things about who Jesus is in the meantime, So let's 599 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 3: keep going. Yeah, talk about talk about your community, talk 600 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 3: about what you're doing. I'm so excited. I've only been 601 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 3: asking you to do this for what two years? 602 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, so I think you know. 603 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 2: I released the book in October of twenty five. One 604 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 2: of the things, of the many things that came from 605 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 2: that is just being indicated with people from all across 606 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 2: the country the world really who want gospel centered recovery, 607 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 2: and especially men who want gospel centered recovery, but it's 608 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 2: just not available to them, or there's this is not 609 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 2: being taught right, And so I argue with God a 610 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 2: little bit. I almost took a job running another nonprofit, 611 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 2: and the Lord made it really clear, like no, John, 612 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 2: like work out the that I've given you. So I've 613 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 2: started a nonprofit called Veritas Recovery, and it is there's 614 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 2: kind of six pillars that undergird this ministry, and so 615 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 2: I'll quickly go through each one. The first one is 616 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 2: top level resources, and so what I mean by that is, 617 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 2: you know, whether that's miniseries, videos, stuff to give people 618 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,719 Speaker 2: an introduction to what is gospel centered recovery. And then 619 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 2: an introduction to the four steps in the second half 620 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 2: of my book, which are abiding in Christ, finding your 621 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 2: true identity, radical, vulnerability, and obedience. 622 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: So just hey, this is these are resources for you. 623 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 2: This is what it looks like to pursue Jesus, not 624 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 2: just sobriety. 625 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: Right. 626 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 2: The second is media, and so I have a background. 627 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 2: I was the editor in chief in of I Am Second. 628 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 2: It's a Christian nonprofit that told stories of radical life transformation. 629 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 2: And so we have a YouTube channel that we've created 630 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 2: that we are going to do testimonies just on addiction 631 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 2: and what it looks like to shoot for. And we 632 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 2: have this incredible concept that I'm so excited. We have 633 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 2: this award winning filmmaker that we've partner with, and the 634 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 2: idea is we want to create media that breaks through 635 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 2: algorithms because three important stats. One, the median church size 636 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 2: in America is sixty people. Right, So going back to 637 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 2: that top level resources, right, like churches can barely pay 638 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 2: their pastor let alone have a thriving you know, recovery ministry, right, 639 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 2: So we want to provide resources for people who don't 640 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 2: have access to it. 641 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: Right. 642 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 2: The second thing is Barna, which is a Christian research 643 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 2: company did a study that said most people are being 644 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 2: discipled by their algorithms, not their pastors. And the average churchgoer, 645 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 2: so self identified as someone who goes to church, goes 646 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 2: to church one point six times a month, so less 647 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 2: than two times a month. So the point is people 648 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 2: are not going to church. When they do go to church, 649 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 2: there's not a lot of resources for them. 650 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: So what are we going to do? Are we just 651 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: going to leave them behind? 652 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 3: No? 653 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: And so so then the third thing, which is what. 654 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 2: You've really held me kind of refined, is a community, right, 655 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 2: and so a community of people, especially men who want 656 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 2: to start talking and opening up and especially being radically vulnerable. 657 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 2: And that's what we need, right, Yeah, why do why 658 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 2: do pastors fall? 659 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: Why do you? Why does anyone fall? Right? 660 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 2: It's like you have not been radically vulnerable enough. So 661 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 2: it's an online community that is focused on fostering confessional community, right. 662 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: Love that. 663 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 2: The fourth thing is what I call education, And so 664 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 2: you know, I have my own podcast, I do my 665 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 2: speaking and travel the country talking about what is gospel 666 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 2: centered recovery? Why do we need it? How is that 667 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 2: different than secular recovery? Where does secular recovery fall short? 668 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 2: Why is aiming for Jesus and not sobriety better. So 669 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 2: that's the that's the fourth pillar. The fifth pillar is retreats, 670 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 2: and I'm really excited about this. This is something that 671 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 2: the Lord has put in my heart for years, is 672 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 2: creating retreats for people to really go in depth, especially 673 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 2: on the four steps and so bringing you know, whether 674 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 2: that's couples, whether that is pastors, whether that's one just 675 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 2: for men, one just for women, which then I would 676 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 2: need someone like christi Ov's orm to come along and 677 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 2: help me with and so you know, it's a for 678 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 2: subject focus, right, it's using the the abiding, radical, vulnerability, identity, 679 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 2: and obedience over the course of a weekend. And then 680 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 2: the sixth pillar is something that is we're calling equipping 681 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,479 Speaker 2: and empowering. And so the truth is that a lot 682 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 2: of people who fall into addiction, especially hard, they've squandered opportunities, right, 683 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 2: and so it's providing opportunities for them to have meaningful 684 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 2: work that gets them back on their feet. 685 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: And so we are partnering. 686 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 2: One of our board members has an incredible vision for 687 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 2: he's a he's a top rated chef, and so he 688 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 2: has a vision for creating a restaurant that is focused 689 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 2: solely on employing people with addiction stories that have really 690 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 2: you know, squarned stuff away and getting them back on 691 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 2: their feet. So those are the six Those are the 692 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 2: six pillars. And that's why you know, you and I 693 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 2: were talking. It's like it's like, I'm not saying it's 694 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 2: exclusively for men. I'm saying it's focused on men because 695 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 2: it's like you know that six pillar, right, It's like, well, 696 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 2: you know, we're not going to only employ men, and 697 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 2: the retreats are not necessarily only for men, but certain 698 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 2: aspects people like you, Christy and are serving the female 699 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 2: community well. And so I tell people like, I'm not 700 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 2: trying to reinvent the wheel. I'm not trying to take 701 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 2: people away from the local church. I'm trying to funnel 702 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 2: people into the local church. I'm trying to funnel people 703 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 2: into deeper discipleship and and so it's not a competition 704 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 2: with the local church, not a competition with other people 705 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,439 Speaker 2: that I know are doing things really well. It's trying 706 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 2: to get them into those things as well. 707 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 1: Yeah. 708 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 4: No, I'm so excited for you. 709 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 2: So you can go to Veritasrecovery dot org to see 710 00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 2: more and what we're doing and get involved, especially if 711 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 2: you if you're someone who knows a man who needs help. 712 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 3: There will be so many women that are listening to 713 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 3: this that do yeah. Yeah, thank you, my friend. 714 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: Thank you. 715 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 4: I'm so excited to see. 716 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 3: Just what happens in the next however many years with 717 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 3: all of this, it's going to be so exciting. 718 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 2: Trusting God, right, Like it's like, you know, I went 719 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 2: to seminary, put my job on hold, you know, my 720 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 2: wife has been supporting us, and then like we go 721 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 2: this and I'm like, well, I'm not bringing in a 722 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 2: salary yet from this nonprofit, so Lord, you're gonna have 723 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 2: to ride. 724 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 1: And he just keeps, yeah, keeps giving manna. 725 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 2: You know. 726 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that. Thank you, my friend. All Right, girls, 727 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 3: we will see you next week. Thank you for listening 728 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 3: to Love Life Sober. We love you, We're praying for you. 729 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 4: See you next week. 730 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,359 Speaker 3: Thank you for spending this time with me on Love 731 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 3: Life Sober. If today's conversation stirred something in your heart, 732 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 3: don't rush past it, take it to prayer. If you're 733 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 3: feeling ready for deeper connection and support, I'd love to 734 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 3: invite you into the Love Life Sober community. A grace filled, 735 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 3: shame free space where real connection grows and lasting change 736 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 3: takes root. You can find the link to join us 737 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 3: in the show notes. Love Life Sober is part of 738 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 3: the Life Audio podcast Network, where faith centered podcasts help 739 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 3: you grow deeper in your walk with Christ. You can 740 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 3: find more faith centered podcasts at lifeaudio dot com. Until 741 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 3: next time, be gentle with yourself, stay curious, and trust 742 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 3: God's promises. 743 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 4: He has freedom waiting for you