1 00:00:02,690 --> 00:00:03,620 Speaker 1: Life Audio. 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,940 Speaker 2: I can promise you that our Lord Jesus walks the 3 00:00:07,060 --> 00:00:11,740 Speaker 2: stormy waves of our stormy stories with us and for us, 4 00:00:11,980 --> 00:00:13,220 Speaker 2: even if we can't see them. 5 00:00:13,500 --> 00:00:16,430 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Faith Over Fear podcast, where we discuss 6 00:00:16,500 --> 00:00:24,419 Speaker 1: powerful truths. to quiet anxiety and fear, big and small. 7 00:00:24,860 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: I am your host, Jennifer Slattery, and I found few 8 00:00:28,110 --> 00:00:31,150 Speaker 1: things feel more painful than reaching out to someone we 9 00:00:31,210 --> 00:00:34,970 Speaker 1: love and receiving no response. We might wonder if we've 10 00:00:34,990 --> 00:00:38,350 Speaker 1: done something wrong, if they're upset with us, or if 11 00:00:38,450 --> 00:00:42,169 Speaker 1: something has changed in our relationship. And when we desperately 12 00:00:42,290 --> 00:00:46,150 Speaker 1: need to hear from God, his perceived silence can trigger 13 00:00:46,190 --> 00:00:50,650 Speaker 1: those same fears. But what if we've misunderstood God what 14 00:00:50,690 --> 00:00:54,890 Speaker 1: his silence maybe means, and what if we are misunderstanding 15 00:00:54,930 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: his heart towards us when we're in those places. Today, 16 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: we're continuing our series on hearing God to discuss those 17 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,380 Speaker 1: times when it feels like God stopped speaking to us. 18 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,740 Speaker 1: And I've asked a woman I adore to join me, 19 00:01:05,900 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: Judy Dunnigan, author of The Loudest Roar, Living in the 20 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,809 Speaker 1: Unshakable Victory of Christ, to discuss how to remain confident 21 00:01:14,290 --> 00:01:19,890 Speaker 1: and restful, relaxed in God's love even when we can't 22 00:01:20,150 --> 00:01:22,540 Speaker 1: hear his voice. Judy, thank you so much for joining 23 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: us again. This is your second time back. And I 24 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: think you're going to have to come on a third 25 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:29,620 Speaker 1: because I heard you just turned in a book that 26 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,270 Speaker 1: I'm probably going to be interested in. Yeah. 27 00:01:32,490 --> 00:01:34,670 Speaker 2: Well, Jennifer, thank you. I'm so excited to be with 28 00:01:34,690 --> 00:01:36,130 Speaker 2: you today. Thanks for inviting me. 29 00:01:36,830 --> 00:01:40,370 Speaker 1: Judy Dunigan is an author, speaker, and former acquisitions editor 30 00:01:40,530 --> 00:01:44,149 Speaker 1: at Moody Publishers who served in women's ministry for 20 years. 31 00:01:44,450 --> 00:01:48,050 Speaker 1: She's passionate about helping people deepen their relationship with Jesus, 32 00:01:48,210 --> 00:01:52,090 Speaker 1: discover the power of scripture, and grow in their faith. 33 00:01:52,630 --> 00:01:57,590 Speaker 1: And hearing from God is an important aspect of that. 34 00:01:58,110 --> 00:02:03,169 Speaker 1: Can you share a time, Judy, when you desperately needed 35 00:02:03,210 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: to hear from God? And he seemed silent. 36 00:02:07,420 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: Yes, I'd love to share that. And this happened several times. 37 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:11,380 Speaker 2: You know, I'm in my 60s. 38 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:11,820 Speaker 1: Okay. 39 00:02:12,660 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 2: But there was one time back when our family was 40 00:02:15,470 --> 00:02:18,650 Speaker 2: moving a lot from my husband's job. And we moved 41 00:02:18,950 --> 00:02:22,330 Speaker 2: from Michigan to Colorado when our youngest daughter was just 42 00:02:22,389 --> 00:02:25,810 Speaker 2: going into seventh grade. And Jennifer, your mom, I think 43 00:02:25,850 --> 00:02:28,530 Speaker 2: there's no worse time to move a child than when 44 00:02:28,550 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: they're starting middle school. And it was so hard for 45 00:02:31,500 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: our daughter that we started to see it impact her health. 46 00:02:35,210 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 2: And I was full of so much fear and anxiety, 47 00:02:38,090 --> 00:02:40,580 Speaker 2: crying out to the Lord. She'd be at school and 48 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 2: I'd be just in the word. I'd be trying to 49 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 2: pray the Psalms, which usually calms my heart. But there 50 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 2: was a lot of other things going on in our 51 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,310 Speaker 2: family at that time, a lot of storms. And I 52 00:02:51,410 --> 00:02:54,609 Speaker 2: really felt like God was silent and he didn't see me, 53 00:02:54,710 --> 00:02:57,929 Speaker 2: didn't really know or care about what I was going through. 54 00:02:58,310 --> 00:03:00,829 Speaker 2: And I got to go to a getaway retreat that 55 00:03:00,870 --> 00:03:02,930 Speaker 2: a friend invited me to. And we had a lot 56 00:03:02,970 --> 00:03:05,410 Speaker 2: of time alone. And being in the mountains, it's easy 57 00:03:05,430 --> 00:03:07,610 Speaker 2: to feel closer to the Lord. But one day I 58 00:03:07,650 --> 00:03:10,900 Speaker 2: was outside by myself on a bench, just looking at 59 00:03:10,940 --> 00:03:14,540 Speaker 2: the mountains and just praying and crying out. And at 60 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 2: that time, the only way I could really calm my heart, 61 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,340 Speaker 2: especially when I went to sleep, but even while I 62 00:03:19,380 --> 00:03:21,859 Speaker 2: was out in the mountains that day, I had AirPods 63 00:03:21,940 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 2: on listening to worship music. And right before a certain 64 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 2: song came on, and I hadn't heard the CD before. 65 00:03:28,900 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: It was actually back in the CD days. 66 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. 67 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,980 Speaker 2: I heard God. It felt like he whispered over me, Judy, 68 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: be still. Just be still. My heart was just, oh, 69 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,020 Speaker 2: I was all over the place. And right after that, 70 00:03:41,300 --> 00:03:45,700 Speaker 2: the old hymn, Be Still and Know, song came on. 71 00:03:46,180 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 2: And I started listening to the lyrics. And to this day, Jennifer, 72 00:03:50,140 --> 00:03:51,940 Speaker 2: it was as if I really feel it was as 73 00:03:52,020 --> 00:03:54,820 Speaker 2: if God was singing that song over me. It's be 74 00:03:54,900 --> 00:03:57,740 Speaker 2: still my soul. And one of the lines of the 75 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:02,670 Speaker 2: lyrics says, the waves and winds still know his voice 76 00:04:02,750 --> 00:04:07,290 Speaker 2: who ruled them while he dwelt below. And for some reason, 77 00:04:07,530 --> 00:04:11,380 Speaker 2: just that phrase, that sentence shifted something in me. And 78 00:04:11,410 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: I knew it was from a story in God's word. 79 00:04:14,300 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: And so I was able to look it up and 80 00:04:16,420 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: I'm just going to read a few verses where those 81 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,180 Speaker 2: lyrics came from. And the story is Jesus was in 82 00:04:22,220 --> 00:04:25,219 Speaker 2: the boat with his disciples and they were just going 83 00:04:25,300 --> 00:04:28,179 Speaker 2: across the lake, probably going to the next place Jesus 84 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,020 Speaker 2: was going to teach or heal people. Well, Jesus fell 85 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,810 Speaker 2: asleep in the boat and suddenly a storm furious squall, 86 00:04:34,830 --> 00:04:38,620 Speaker 2: a storm came up and the disciples were terrified and 87 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,180 Speaker 2: they woke Jesus up and they're basically like, why are 88 00:04:41,220 --> 00:04:44,180 Speaker 2: you sleeping on this watch? They thought they were going 89 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,529 Speaker 2: to drown and they were going to be killed. And 90 00:04:46,570 --> 00:04:48,330 Speaker 2: so this is found in Mark 4. I'm going to 91 00:04:48,410 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 2: read a few verses starting in verse 35. That day 92 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,620 Speaker 2: when evening came, he said to his disciples, Let us 93 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: go over to the other side. Leaving the crowd behind, 94 00:04:57,500 --> 00:05:00,070 Speaker 2: they took him along just as he was in the boat. 95 00:05:00,350 --> 00:05:03,980 Speaker 2: There were also other boats with him. Furious squall came up, 96 00:05:04,170 --> 00:05:06,250 Speaker 2: and the waves broke over the boat so that it 97 00:05:06,290 --> 00:05:10,229 Speaker 2: was nearly swamped. Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on 98 00:05:10,270 --> 00:05:13,270 Speaker 2: a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, Teacher, 99 00:05:13,310 --> 00:05:16,099 Speaker 2: don't you care if we drown? He got up. That 100 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: phrase right there was in the lyrics of that old hymn. 101 00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: And for some reason, that day, it just calmed me. 102 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: It's like the God who can make a literal storm, 103 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 2: over a sea where waves are coming on a boat 104 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: and you think you're going to drown, he can calm 105 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: that with a word. Even the wind and waves obeyed 106 00:05:54,460 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 2: him when he walked this groaning earth. And that's the 107 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 2: same God who cares about the storms that we're going 108 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: through in our own lives, that we feel like maybe 109 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,700 Speaker 2: he's asleep or he doesn't care, but he's right there 110 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,750 Speaker 2: with us. And I'll never forget it, how God used 111 00:06:07,790 --> 00:06:10,690 Speaker 2: that to calm my heart and open up a way 112 00:06:10,750 --> 00:06:13,589 Speaker 2: that I could trust him more and knew that he 113 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,380 Speaker 2: was ever aware of what I was going through and 114 00:06:16,420 --> 00:06:18,119 Speaker 2: how worried I was for my daughter. 115 00:06:18,380 --> 00:06:21,380 Speaker 1: That's a beautiful story. Such a tender way that he 116 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: met you in that time. As you were talking, I 117 00:06:23,660 --> 00:06:26,110 Speaker 1: was thinking of two things. The first thing I'm curious about, 118 00:06:26,370 --> 00:06:31,409 Speaker 1: how long did that silent season continue before you got 119 00:06:31,470 --> 00:06:31,969 Speaker 1: that word? 120 00:06:32,550 --> 00:06:35,510 Speaker 2: Well, I think we had moved there. It was about 121 00:06:35,650 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 2: five or six months that I was really worried about her. 122 00:06:38,420 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: And it was getting very serious in terms of her 123 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,860 Speaker 2: health issues that she was dealing with because of all, 124 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,890 Speaker 2: just everything she was going through as a seventh grader 125 00:06:47,029 --> 00:06:49,789 Speaker 2: and the turmoil and being bullied and everything. 126 00:06:50,250 --> 00:06:51,010 Speaker 1: Oh, wow. 127 00:06:51,190 --> 00:06:53,570 Speaker 2: Lonely in the school. I mean, it's hard to break 128 00:06:53,650 --> 00:06:57,770 Speaker 2: into a school in seventh grade or any teenager. And 129 00:06:57,860 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 2: so I was in the word. I was praying, but 130 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 2: I felt like I couldn't really sense the Lord caring 131 00:07:03,740 --> 00:07:06,860 Speaker 2: or his presence or his nearness. And some of it 132 00:07:06,900 --> 00:07:10,110 Speaker 2: was because of me. I'm prone to anxiety. I joke 133 00:07:10,150 --> 00:07:12,350 Speaker 2: that I think it goes so far back that right 134 00:07:12,390 --> 00:07:14,410 Speaker 2: after I was born, I was worried if I even 135 00:07:14,430 --> 00:07:19,980 Speaker 2: did that right. I had so much fear as a 136 00:07:20,020 --> 00:07:22,650 Speaker 2: child and it kind of calmed down in my 20s. 137 00:07:22,660 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 2: But when I became a mom, it went through the 138 00:07:24,780 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 2: roof again because when my babies were sick, I just would. 139 00:07:28,670 --> 00:07:31,050 Speaker 2: He's so full of fear because you always think the 140 00:07:31,110 --> 00:07:34,830 Speaker 2: worse or fear they'll be snatched and all the things. 141 00:07:35,050 --> 00:07:37,790 Speaker 2: And so really a lot of that anxiety, I think 142 00:07:37,850 --> 00:07:41,090 Speaker 2: was clouding, even being able to hear from him. And 143 00:07:41,150 --> 00:07:44,310 Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's always your fault. Sometimes he is quiet. 144 00:07:44,730 --> 00:07:47,190 Speaker 2: And in the storms of this life or the storms 145 00:07:47,270 --> 00:07:50,070 Speaker 2: just keep raging and one thing after another, and you 146 00:07:50,090 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: think he doesn't care. He's distant. And that's where for me, 147 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,710 Speaker 2: That day he used an old hymn. I think that 148 00:07:57,750 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 2: was written in... I looked it up, 1752 by Katharina 149 00:08:02,260 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: von Schlegel. 150 00:08:03,740 --> 00:08:04,980 Speaker 1: And you said the name, wow. 151 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: I don't know if I said it right, but I mean, 152 00:08:08,300 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 2: I love that those old hymns can reach you. There's 153 00:08:10,700 --> 00:08:13,050 Speaker 2: other times I can share three stories at least where 154 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,210 Speaker 2: God used old hymns because I was a pastor's daughter 155 00:08:16,250 --> 00:08:18,190 Speaker 2: and those are kind of dear to my heart. But 156 00:08:18,390 --> 00:08:21,170 Speaker 2: we have incredible worship music now. And in many ways, 157 00:08:21,210 --> 00:08:23,350 Speaker 2: that can be a way that you communicate with God, 158 00:08:23,410 --> 00:08:25,850 Speaker 2: that you're worshiping him through the lyrics of the song. 159 00:08:26,580 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: I love that he spoke to you in a way 160 00:08:28,700 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: that you could understand. You had a history with the Lord, 161 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,150 Speaker 1: it sounds like, connected to those hymns. I do want 162 00:08:35,170 --> 00:08:38,670 Speaker 1: to say, I totally get like when we battle anxiety, 163 00:08:38,950 --> 00:08:42,809 Speaker 1: it's not our fault, but our thoughts can get so loud. 164 00:08:42,910 --> 00:08:45,770 Speaker 1: And so I wonder if giving ourselves grace to say 165 00:08:45,830 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: when we're in an anxious spiral saying, yeah, it's hard 166 00:08:48,900 --> 00:08:52,290 Speaker 1: for anything to break through my brain right now. But 167 00:08:52,390 --> 00:08:56,250 Speaker 1: God is still here. He still loves me. We'll put 168 00:08:56,330 --> 00:08:59,150 Speaker 1: a link in the show notes actually to that song 169 00:08:59,220 --> 00:09:03,500 Speaker 1: because music is a powerful way of really connecting us 170 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,340 Speaker 1: with the Lord. What else I liked about what you 171 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,870 Speaker 1: were saying, though. So you received several invitations you said 172 00:09:10,990 --> 00:09:15,569 Speaker 1: yes to. in order to get to where it fully landed. 173 00:09:15,670 --> 00:09:17,329 Speaker 1: And the reason I say this, like I'm thinking of 174 00:09:17,370 --> 00:09:21,270 Speaker 1: myself when I'm in a storm, when I am overwhelmed, 175 00:09:21,580 --> 00:09:25,220 Speaker 1: I tend to withdraw and isolate. And I love that 176 00:09:25,260 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: you went to a retreat someplace where you could surround 177 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,660 Speaker 1: yourself by other believers. You could surround yourself by truth 178 00:09:32,860 --> 00:09:36,500 Speaker 1: and worship, I'm assuming. But then also you said, so 179 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,550 Speaker 1: you heard the song, it made an impact. And here 180 00:09:39,590 --> 00:09:41,530 Speaker 1: I'm thinking like, I would just maybe be like, okay, well, 181 00:09:41,550 --> 00:09:44,030 Speaker 1: that's good. And moving on with my day and it 182 00:09:44,050 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: would hit, but it would maybe hit kind of small, 183 00:09:46,380 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: but it's almost like you sensed in that, how I'm 184 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,699 Speaker 1: interpreting this, that there was still more. And so you 185 00:09:53,820 --> 00:09:56,530 Speaker 1: took that song and then you went to scripture. And 186 00:09:56,570 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: so it's almost like God built the conversation and, And 187 00:10:00,140 --> 00:10:02,420 Speaker 1: the reason I wanted to point that out to listeners, 188 00:10:02,740 --> 00:10:06,410 Speaker 1: I wonder how many times God issues us an invitation 189 00:10:06,890 --> 00:10:10,290 Speaker 1: to go deeper. And maybe we're just not thinking that way, right? 190 00:10:10,330 --> 00:10:12,829 Speaker 1: Like it's not on our radar. We're new to faith. 191 00:10:13,090 --> 00:10:16,110 Speaker 1: Or maybe we just sometimes I think it takes things to... 192 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,460 Speaker 1: sink in. But I wonder for those who maybe are 193 00:10:20,500 --> 00:10:23,740 Speaker 1: receiving an invitation that is outside of their awareness, if 194 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,500 Speaker 1: there's a practice of just, huh, I wonder if there 195 00:10:26,540 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: was something that God was, a way he was reaching 196 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,170 Speaker 1: out to me and then expanding on that later. Oh yeah. 197 00:10:33,290 --> 00:10:36,010 Speaker 2: And that's exactly what happened to me. I'll tell you 198 00:10:36,050 --> 00:10:38,630 Speaker 2: more about that getaway because as a dear friend, I've 199 00:10:38,670 --> 00:10:40,750 Speaker 2: known many years and she knew what our daughter was 200 00:10:40,809 --> 00:10:43,290 Speaker 2: going through and just other things in our family. She 201 00:10:43,309 --> 00:10:45,969 Speaker 2: was praying for us and she had been invited to 202 00:10:46,010 --> 00:10:49,709 Speaker 2: this retreat of maybe six women. And the whole point 203 00:10:49,809 --> 00:10:51,630 Speaker 2: was to get in the mountains and hear from the 204 00:10:51,690 --> 00:10:54,020 Speaker 2: Lord or spend time with him. And so it wasn't 205 00:10:54,059 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 2: a big retreat and I'll never forget it. It's in 206 00:10:56,860 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 2: the mountains as a ministry started by a couple. It 207 00:10:59,980 --> 00:11:02,020 Speaker 2: was called Praise Mountain. I don't even know if it's 208 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,460 Speaker 2: still going on, but we had our own cabins if 209 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:07,290 Speaker 2: we wanted, which I needed to be alone too. We 210 00:11:07,330 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 2: were sent out, the six or seven of us as women, 211 00:11:10,130 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 2: be alone with the Lord and bring something back that's 212 00:11:12,580 --> 00:11:15,850 Speaker 2: significant of how he met you. So that was why 213 00:11:15,950 --> 00:11:18,030 Speaker 2: I went out there and I'm sitting on that bench 214 00:11:18,090 --> 00:11:21,940 Speaker 2: by those crosses. And I'll never forget it. I journaled something, 215 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,870 Speaker 2: like a surrender prayer to God about my Kelly, my daughter. 216 00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:28,850 Speaker 2: And this was before I heard the song. That happened 217 00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:31,530 Speaker 2: the next morning when I was in the cabin, actually. 218 00:11:31,809 --> 00:11:34,210 Speaker 2: It wasn't on the bench. It was, doesn't matter. But 219 00:11:34,250 --> 00:11:36,450 Speaker 2: that's when that song was played for me. But while 220 00:11:36,510 --> 00:11:38,890 Speaker 2: I'm at those two crosses, I prayed kind of a 221 00:11:38,950 --> 00:11:41,530 Speaker 2: prayer of surrender. And like, I don't hear from you, God. 222 00:11:41,550 --> 00:11:42,900 Speaker 2: I don't know if you're going to heal or I 223 00:11:42,940 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 2: don't know what your plan is. But I surrender this 224 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,910 Speaker 2: to you. And I took a little stick back to... 225 00:11:48,890 --> 00:11:51,150 Speaker 2: the women just to share, it had been by those 226 00:11:51,210 --> 00:11:53,809 Speaker 2: two crosses. And it changed my life. And God knew 227 00:11:53,870 --> 00:11:56,729 Speaker 2: that was waiting for me when my friend Linda invited me. 228 00:11:57,290 --> 00:12:00,380 Speaker 2: And just those getaways with God are so significant. The 229 00:12:00,410 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 2: Lord has opened the door for me to do that 230 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: several times when I know I need to get away 231 00:12:05,140 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: and center myself on him and listen and play the 232 00:12:08,820 --> 00:12:12,380 Speaker 2: praise music, take my journal. It's changed my walk with 233 00:12:12,420 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 2: him over and over. 234 00:12:13,420 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 1: That's beautiful. The other thing, you keep saying like... stay 235 00:12:18,300 --> 00:12:23,699 Speaker 1: on this event. But I'm also listening to you. I'm 236 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:28,250 Speaker 1: thinking of the importance of preparing ourselves to hear from him. 237 00:12:28,650 --> 00:12:32,709 Speaker 1: Sometimes I can get so busy, especially like on Sunday morning, 238 00:12:32,830 --> 00:12:35,150 Speaker 1: and I want to do one more thing before heading 239 00:12:35,210 --> 00:12:37,940 Speaker 1: to church. And so I'm arriving at worship late and 240 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,420 Speaker 1: I'm distracted and I'm frazzled, or maybe it's my morning 241 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:46,500 Speaker 1: Bible time and I'm Again, busy. And for me lately, 242 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,510 Speaker 1: I'm sensing, my spiritual mentor actually asked me, I told 243 00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:53,870 Speaker 1: her I've been trying to use, I have a fur baby, Bean, 244 00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:54,510 Speaker 1: my dog. 245 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,140 Speaker 2: So, and I walk. 246 00:12:58,870 --> 00:13:02,809 Speaker 1: Her a lot and I've been trying to train my mind. Okay. 247 00:13:02,890 --> 00:13:06,870 Speaker 1: Driving time is Jesus time. Walking being is Jesus time. 248 00:13:06,890 --> 00:13:10,069 Speaker 1: And I was telling my spiritual mentor about this and 249 00:13:10,090 --> 00:13:12,660 Speaker 1: she's like, well, what are you doing to orient your heart? 250 00:13:12,740 --> 00:13:16,770 Speaker 1: That's her phrase. Like basically, turn myself to position myself 251 00:13:16,809 --> 00:13:20,349 Speaker 1: to receive from God. And she suggested that I listened 252 00:13:20,390 --> 00:13:24,290 Speaker 1: to music actually, as I do. So I think sometimes 253 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: it can be helpful if we plan ahead, like where 254 00:13:26,059 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: can I go? That will be quiet. What tools do 255 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: I need? Whether it's music or maybe a snuggie blanket 256 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: or a cup of coffee. Is that part of your 257 00:13:36,340 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: practice too? As far as when you're really wanting to 258 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,809 Speaker 1: connect with the Lord, how much does preparation play into that? 259 00:13:42,370 --> 00:13:45,770 Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting you'd ask that because it's also in Mark. 260 00:13:45,820 --> 00:13:48,300 Speaker 2: I don't remember if it's Mark 4 or Mark 6, 261 00:13:48,300 --> 00:13:52,420 Speaker 2: but I had a mentor that I went to meet 262 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,570 Speaker 2: with when I was really struggling. I was a women's 263 00:13:56,610 --> 00:13:58,710 Speaker 2: leader at our church and I was getting burned out. 264 00:13:58,750 --> 00:14:02,190 Speaker 2: I was exhausted and I went to meet with her 265 00:14:02,210 --> 00:14:04,410 Speaker 2: and she's listening to me and she goes, Judy, you 266 00:14:04,429 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 2: need Kara time. And I go, what's Kara time? And 267 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,220 Speaker 2: she said, it's a getaway with the Lord. And then Mark, 268 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,460 Speaker 2: there's a time when the disciples had just been out, 269 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 2: like he had sent them out to share about him. 270 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,370 Speaker 2: And they came back all excited about ministry, but he 271 00:14:20,380 --> 00:14:22,850 Speaker 2: could tell they were tired. And he says these words, 272 00:14:23,450 --> 00:14:27,670 Speaker 2: come away to a quiet place and rest a while. 273 00:14:27,790 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 2: So Kara is an acronym. Come awake, Rest a while. C-A-R-A. 274 00:14:32,380 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 2: And my mentor said, I'm going to hold you accountable. 275 00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:37,140 Speaker 2: You got to have a little getaway with God. And 276 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,900 Speaker 2: for me, I could get away on a Saturday. The 277 00:14:39,940 --> 00:14:42,810 Speaker 2: way I got equipped or prepared was I knew I 278 00:14:42,810 --> 00:14:45,630 Speaker 2: had a music I love that I was going to 279 00:14:45,690 --> 00:14:47,790 Speaker 2: play in the car while I drove into the mountains. 280 00:14:47,870 --> 00:14:52,290 Speaker 2: I had my journal. I had my Bible. And it 281 00:14:52,350 --> 00:14:54,980 Speaker 2: was a precious time with the Lord. And she wanted 282 00:14:55,020 --> 00:14:56,780 Speaker 2: to know what day I was going to do that 283 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,350 Speaker 2: so she could bury it for me. And it was 284 00:14:59,450 --> 00:15:01,630 Speaker 2: so life changing that I brought it back to my 285 00:15:01,690 --> 00:15:04,550 Speaker 2: leadership team, the women who were partnering with me in 286 00:15:04,590 --> 00:15:07,290 Speaker 2: the ministry and asked them to do that and let 287 00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:09,390 Speaker 2: me know when they were going and I pray with them. 288 00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:12,550 Speaker 2: So pray for them. And so it's really like a 289 00:15:12,630 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 2: getaway with the Lord. Now, you can't do that all 290 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,780 Speaker 2: the time, but that's one example of the few times 291 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,700 Speaker 2: I've done that. I do it about once a year, 292 00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 2: I think, where it's intentional, like the whole day. Just 293 00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:33,780 Speaker 2: to try to hear from the Lord and worship him 294 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,780 Speaker 2: and spend time with him. But also, I'm an empty 295 00:15:36,820 --> 00:15:40,420 Speaker 2: nester and now retired from working full time. I love 296 00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:44,030 Speaker 2: to get up early and I play praise music and 297 00:15:44,370 --> 00:15:47,230 Speaker 2: do that first and then enter into either do a 298 00:15:47,270 --> 00:15:50,250 Speaker 2: Bible study or read a devotional. And I try to 299 00:15:50,330 --> 00:15:52,910 Speaker 2: journal a prayer to the Lord most days. So it 300 00:15:52,930 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 2: really depends what season of life you're. 301 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,370 Speaker 1: In, though. True. Absolutely. We need to take a break 302 00:15:58,390 --> 00:16:00,570 Speaker 1: to listen to our sponsors. When we come back, I 303 00:16:00,590 --> 00:16:04,580 Speaker 1: would love to hear, Judy, what are some things you 304 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: do when your anxiety becomes really loud to help you 305 00:16:10,020 --> 00:16:13,420 Speaker 1: recognize God's presence, maybe hear his voice above all the 306 00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:16,050 Speaker 1: mental chaos. So we'll talk about that when we get back. 307 00:16:16,370 --> 00:16:20,130 Speaker 1: And we are back. Judy, when we started this conversation, 308 00:16:20,350 --> 00:16:24,170 Speaker 1: you talked about how you have anxiety and most of 309 00:16:24,230 --> 00:16:27,790 Speaker 1: our listeners do as well. I do as well. What 310 00:16:27,830 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: do you do when your anxiety is so loud? It 311 00:16:31,860 --> 00:16:35,580 Speaker 1: makes it really difficult, if not impossible to sense God's 312 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: presence and to hear his voice. 313 00:16:37,540 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 2: Like we talked about before, sometimes our minds are just 314 00:16:40,420 --> 00:16:43,340 Speaker 2: all over the place when we're anxious or fearful. It's 315 00:16:43,380 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 2: hard to concentrate. So even reading a Psalm out loud, 316 00:16:47,750 --> 00:16:51,460 Speaker 2: is so helpful. I discovered just a few months ago, 317 00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 2: our little two-year-old granddaughter had to have a biopsy and 318 00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:58,780 Speaker 2: something off her face. And thankfully she's fine, but boy, 319 00:16:58,900 --> 00:17:02,830 Speaker 2: I couldn't, I couldn't sleep. I couldn't think straight. And 320 00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:06,270 Speaker 2: I went to Google and I found a prayer book. 321 00:17:06,810 --> 00:17:10,700 Speaker 2: that someone prays based on Psalm 91. And it was 322 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 2: a narrator with an English accent, which I find calming. 323 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 2: And it was just like, God just had it there 324 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,940 Speaker 2: waiting for me because the narrator first quoted all of 325 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 2: Psalm 91. And so I'm in bed just listening to that, 326 00:17:23,260 --> 00:17:25,810 Speaker 2: not reading, just trying to fall asleep. And then there 327 00:17:25,850 --> 00:17:29,989 Speaker 2: was this powerful prayer based at Psalm 91. It was remarkable. 328 00:17:30,090 --> 00:17:32,170 Speaker 2: I've shared that link with a lot of my friends 329 00:17:32,210 --> 00:17:34,980 Speaker 2: who struggle with anxiety as well. You know, Jennifer, there's 330 00:17:35,020 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 2: a lot of things to be afraid of right now. 331 00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:40,300 Speaker 2: There's so much anxiety. Anxiety has gone through the roof 332 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 2: for so many. And I think that's one thing that's 333 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,380 Speaker 2: really helped me. And I've already mentioned the music. That's 334 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,570 Speaker 2: very calming and make my mind concentrate on the lyrics 335 00:17:50,670 --> 00:17:53,429 Speaker 2: of the song, especially when trying to fall back asleep. 336 00:17:53,670 --> 00:17:55,330 Speaker 2: That is a phenomenal thing. So I'm going to pause 337 00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:56,070 Speaker 2: you on that. 338 00:17:56,090 --> 00:17:58,710 Speaker 1: So when you say make your mind, so what does 339 00:17:58,730 --> 00:18:01,409 Speaker 1: that look like practically to make your mind focus on 340 00:18:01,450 --> 00:18:01,869 Speaker 1: the lyrics? 341 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,379 Speaker 2: It's just listen to the lyrics. And it really, at 342 00:18:05,420 --> 00:18:07,710 Speaker 2: least for me, it crowds out all the what ifs 343 00:18:08,050 --> 00:18:12,310 Speaker 2: when our little toddler was going into surgery for the biopsy. 344 00:18:12,910 --> 00:18:15,410 Speaker 2: That was during the day. And I have a place 345 00:18:15,450 --> 00:18:17,290 Speaker 2: where I have my quiet time in the morning and 346 00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:20,330 Speaker 2: I was just in Psalm 91, just reading it out loud. 347 00:18:20,369 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 2: I wrote a prayer for her based on Psalm 91. 348 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,290 Speaker 2: I listened to it. That song, there's different songs that 349 00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:30,189 Speaker 2: are based in Psalm 91. And so it's being intentional 350 00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:32,630 Speaker 2: to do all of that. And God's word talks about 351 00:18:32,670 --> 00:18:36,010 Speaker 2: keeping your thoughts captive to truth. And that is one 352 00:18:36,050 --> 00:18:39,700 Speaker 2: way I do it, especially for someone dealing with anxiety is, okay, 353 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,139 Speaker 2: I'm going to read this Psalm out loud. I mean, 354 00:18:42,220 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 2: famous Psalm 23, read that out loud, calm you. And 355 00:18:46,020 --> 00:18:49,420 Speaker 2: even like how God used the Be Still song over me. 356 00:18:49,540 --> 00:18:52,629 Speaker 2: I play that more often than you know, so. And 357 00:18:52,650 --> 00:18:54,820 Speaker 2: I did just finish writing a book. It's just in 358 00:18:54,930 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 2: editing now. But I tell the story about Be Still 359 00:18:58,420 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 2: and the music. And it was fun to write about 360 00:19:01,180 --> 00:19:04,210 Speaker 2: that so many years later because that little seventh grader 361 00:19:04,250 --> 00:19:06,369 Speaker 2: I was praying for is now a mama of four 362 00:19:07,210 --> 00:19:09,590 Speaker 2: and just moved near us. She and her husband. So 363 00:19:09,630 --> 00:19:11,340 Speaker 2: we're pretty excited to have them close. 364 00:19:11,780 --> 00:19:14,369 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I like how you listen to things 365 00:19:14,470 --> 00:19:16,350 Speaker 1: at night too, because I think for a lot of people, 366 00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:19,630 Speaker 1: that's when the anxiety can get really loud. I think 367 00:19:19,670 --> 00:19:24,859 Speaker 1: sometimes we can become hyper vigilant when God seems silent, 368 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,500 Speaker 1: where we begin to like analyze every thought or circumstance 369 00:19:28,540 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: thinking that we're going to miss him, especially if we're 370 00:19:31,140 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: driven by anxiety. I think we're going to actually going 371 00:19:33,140 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: to have an anxious, our initial perspective is some kind 372 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,379 Speaker 1: of anxious response, right? Like what if scenario. So how 373 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,300 Speaker 1: can we shift that from I'm anxious, Pursuing him because 374 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,060 Speaker 1: I'm afraid he's mad at me and I need to 375 00:19:45,140 --> 00:19:49,260 Speaker 1: do this. to I'm pursuing him because he's my father 376 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,530 Speaker 1: and he welcomes me close. So like instead of from 377 00:19:51,570 --> 00:19:55,750 Speaker 1: a place of fear, more from a place of relationship 378 00:19:56,290 --> 00:19:57,450 Speaker 1: and I guess trust. 379 00:19:58,180 --> 00:19:59,980 Speaker 2: I think a lot of that can depend on how 380 00:20:00,619 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 2: your parents treated you growing up. I have a friend 381 00:20:02,980 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 2: whose father was so harsh and mean, verbally abusive. And 382 00:20:07,420 --> 00:20:10,570 Speaker 2: I was recently with her and she really struggles believing 383 00:20:10,790 --> 00:20:14,570 Speaker 2: that she's not disappointing God to the point she's just 384 00:20:15,210 --> 00:20:17,869 Speaker 2: overwhelmed with fear about that. And we were able to 385 00:20:17,950 --> 00:20:20,970 Speaker 2: talk about what a loving father he is, that he 386 00:20:21,030 --> 00:20:23,940 Speaker 2: loves us unconditionally, that he wants us to come to 387 00:20:23,980 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 2: him no matter what our story is, no matter what 388 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 2: we've done. We have full access to our God through 389 00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 2: prayer and being in his presence as we worship him 390 00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:36,650 Speaker 2: and we're in his word. And so rather than, you know, 391 00:20:36,690 --> 00:20:39,310 Speaker 2: if there's a fear in approaching God because you're not 392 00:20:39,369 --> 00:20:42,730 Speaker 2: sure you're worthy or. You think he's angry at you. 393 00:20:42,970 --> 00:20:44,869 Speaker 2: You can be honest with God. Tell him that's how 394 00:20:44,910 --> 00:20:47,290 Speaker 2: you feel. He knows how you feel and ask him 395 00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: to show you that he is safe and to be 396 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,820 Speaker 2: able to approach him. There's a verse in Hebrews that 397 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 2: says we can approach him in prayer, the throne room, 398 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,860 Speaker 2: and we'll find mercy and grace there. He's the most 399 00:20:58,980 --> 00:21:02,110 Speaker 2: loving God. And I love to remind people that he 400 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:03,870 Speaker 2: loves us unconditionally. 401 00:21:03,890 --> 00:21:08,580 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Instead of going down that anxious spiral, like, God, 402 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,060 Speaker 1: you must be mad. You must be displeased. What are 403 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,969 Speaker 1: some truths you shifted back onto? 404 00:21:14,430 --> 00:21:17,209 Speaker 2: Well, I think that's, again, where the Psalms are so helpful. 405 00:21:17,490 --> 00:21:21,429 Speaker 2: The Psalmist David was in a lot of fearful. situations. 406 00:21:21,490 --> 00:21:24,409 Speaker 2: He wrote several of his Psalms while he was in 407 00:21:24,450 --> 00:21:27,169 Speaker 2: a cave hiding from Saul, who was wanting to kill him. 408 00:21:27,290 --> 00:21:29,950 Speaker 2: And what I love about David is how honest he 409 00:21:30,210 --> 00:21:33,030 Speaker 2: was with God in some of those prayers in Psalm 13. 410 00:21:33,030 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 2: It says, how long, Lord, how long, how long must 411 00:21:37,060 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 2: I go through this? And it's almost like he's pretty 412 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,859 Speaker 2: testy with God and he's asking those wrestling questions. And 413 00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 2: I'm not sure we fully understand we could do that. 414 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,540 Speaker 2: He wants us to come to him. It's like if 415 00:21:48,580 --> 00:21:51,020 Speaker 2: you're a parent listening and you have a child who's 416 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,379 Speaker 2: got all this stuff built up and they're afraid to 417 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,460 Speaker 2: come to you. You want them to come to you 418 00:21:55,550 --> 00:21:58,590 Speaker 2: with their anger and their hard questions. And it's such 419 00:21:58,609 --> 00:22:01,310 Speaker 2: a beautiful psalm, Psalm 13. It gives you permission of 420 00:22:01,390 --> 00:22:03,530 Speaker 2: how to do that. But at the end of that psalm, 421 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,989 Speaker 2: David turns to praise. It's almost like he has to 422 00:22:07,050 --> 00:22:10,470 Speaker 2: reach back and remember where God was faithful. So I 423 00:22:10,530 --> 00:22:12,310 Speaker 2: think some of the attributes that mean the most to 424 00:22:12,369 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 2: me is that he's faithful, that our God is always true. 425 00:22:15,060 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 2: And I've mentioned that he's loving and compassionate and so 426 00:22:18,740 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 2: patient with us. And for those who deal with anxiety, 427 00:22:21,820 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 2: I think some of my favorite verses are Philippians 4, 428 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,990 Speaker 2: where we're told, don't worry about anything. Instead, pray about everything. 429 00:22:29,050 --> 00:22:31,230 Speaker 2: Tell God your needs and don't forget to thank him 430 00:22:31,330 --> 00:22:33,830 Speaker 2: for his answers. If you do this, the peace of 431 00:22:33,890 --> 00:22:36,330 Speaker 2: God will guard your heart and your soul. mind as 432 00:22:36,369 --> 00:22:39,369 Speaker 2: you rest or trust in Christ Jesus. So I had 433 00:22:39,410 --> 00:22:41,550 Speaker 2: to cling to those verses as a little girl. That's 434 00:22:41,609 --> 00:22:44,410 Speaker 2: when I first learned those verses. And it's easier said 435 00:22:44,450 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 2: than done, isn't it, Jennifer? Don't worry about anything. Instead, 436 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,100 Speaker 2: pray about everything. Sounds a little bit, you want to 437 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,300 Speaker 2: roll your eyes and say, but I keep praying about 438 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 2: everything and nothing's changing. And it's okay just to be 439 00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,380 Speaker 2: honest with God and to show your frustration. And he 440 00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:03,369 Speaker 2: died to give us, Jesus died to save our sins 441 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,450 Speaker 2: through his death and resurrection, but save us from our sins, 442 00:23:06,770 --> 00:23:09,689 Speaker 2: but also to give us full access to him in prayer. 443 00:23:10,330 --> 00:23:13,669 Speaker 2: Prayer is so much about relationship with rather than just, oh, 444 00:23:13,690 --> 00:23:15,770 Speaker 2: I've got to say the right words or I've got 445 00:23:15,790 --> 00:23:18,690 Speaker 2: to only ask him for things. We can enter into prayer. 446 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,750 Speaker 2: through worship and just loving him as well. One of 447 00:23:22,790 --> 00:23:26,110 Speaker 2: my best friends deals with anxiety as well. And so 448 00:23:26,150 --> 00:23:28,810 Speaker 2: I wanted to mention this. We text each other probably 449 00:23:28,910 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 2: once a week. She's a grandmother of 14 and I 450 00:23:31,740 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 2: have seven grandkids. So we're busy praying grandmas and she'll 451 00:23:35,660 --> 00:23:38,150 Speaker 2: be worried about one of them who just broke. his 452 00:23:38,530 --> 00:23:41,110 Speaker 2: ankle in soccer and she'll text me and say, pray 453 00:23:41,150 --> 00:23:44,470 Speaker 2: for him. She'll use his name. And just knowing my 454 00:23:44,510 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 2: point of bringing that up is to try to have 455 00:23:46,619 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 2: friends who will pray for you and who are similar 456 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 2: to you even because there's no judgment. I never go 457 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 2: to her like you worry a lot because we're so 458 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,550 Speaker 2: much alike. So it's really sweet to know someone's praying 459 00:23:57,609 --> 00:23:57,909 Speaker 2: for you. 460 00:23:58,330 --> 00:23:58,730 Speaker 1: Yeah. 461 00:23:58,830 --> 00:23:59,290 Speaker 2: Yeah. 462 00:23:59,350 --> 00:24:02,070 Speaker 1: We're going to take another break. When we get back, 463 00:24:02,570 --> 00:24:05,189 Speaker 1: I would love to, I'm hearing a lot of things 464 00:24:05,270 --> 00:24:07,990 Speaker 1: that you do in your soul, in your daily practice 465 00:24:08,030 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: of connecting with God. That sounds really foundational. And so 466 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: I'd love to talk about that more when we get back. 467 00:24:15,220 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 2: Okay. 468 00:24:16,580 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: And we're back. So. Let's talk about showing up even 469 00:24:31,090 --> 00:24:33,830 Speaker 1: when we don't think God is speaking or maybe we 470 00:24:33,869 --> 00:24:36,030 Speaker 1: think he's not going to speak. Talk to me about 471 00:24:36,090 --> 00:24:42,770 Speaker 1: the consistency, what practices you do to continually turning your 472 00:24:42,790 --> 00:24:43,490 Speaker 1: soul towards him. 473 00:24:43,890 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 2: Well, I've shared quite a few of those, but I 474 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 2: continually do it. For me, music is huge. I have 475 00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 2: it playing in the house. I know what songs I love. 476 00:24:52,980 --> 00:24:56,389 Speaker 2: I created a worship playlist, even for my book, The 477 00:24:56,430 --> 00:25:00,410 Speaker 2: Loudest Roar on Spotify. And I listened to those songs. 478 00:25:00,450 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 2: They correspond with all the, all the chapters that I'm doing, 479 00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:05,700 Speaker 2: going to do that for my new book. That has 480 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,540 Speaker 2: been huge for me because there's such great music out 481 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,290 Speaker 2: and the lyrics are so profound and it's the way 482 00:25:12,350 --> 00:25:15,290 Speaker 2: you're worshiping God. And so I do that and I 483 00:25:15,330 --> 00:25:18,169 Speaker 2: read scripture out loud. I try to pray out loud. 484 00:25:18,250 --> 00:25:21,150 Speaker 2: I have a, I'm so grateful for my husband. We 485 00:25:21,210 --> 00:25:25,149 Speaker 2: read five Psalms every morning together and pray together for 486 00:25:25,230 --> 00:25:27,939 Speaker 2: our family. And I know that's a gift, a rare gift, 487 00:25:28,020 --> 00:25:30,620 Speaker 2: but I'm so grateful for that. And then even just 488 00:25:30,660 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 2: getting out in nature, I think is incredible to get 489 00:25:34,140 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 2: some exercise and wherever you live that whatever it area 490 00:25:38,220 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 2: you find beautiful to get out and worship him and 491 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 2: just be with him. Just be quiet and listen. To me, 492 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 2: our aspen trees in Colorado are, I just, the sound 493 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,070 Speaker 2: of them and the beauty of them in the fall. 494 00:25:50,180 --> 00:25:53,530 Speaker 2: I'll often just have my journal. I discovered a pond 495 00:25:53,570 --> 00:25:55,550 Speaker 2: in one of my favorite parks that I hike in. 496 00:25:55,609 --> 00:25:57,810 Speaker 2: And so I go there now and just watch the 497 00:25:57,830 --> 00:26:02,310 Speaker 2: beautiful ducks swimming, sit and just spend time with them. 498 00:26:02,350 --> 00:26:05,450 Speaker 2: Just being quiet is, is wonderful. I think it's so 499 00:26:05,490 --> 00:26:09,070 Speaker 2: helpful in this very distracting world in which we live. 500 00:26:09,250 --> 00:26:11,820 Speaker 1: Yeah. So what I'm hearing too, is you just prioritize that. 501 00:26:12,150 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: I think sometimes for me, I have to constantly remind myself, 502 00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: like life can feel so busy that I think like, well, 503 00:26:18,900 --> 00:26:20,659 Speaker 1: I don't really have the time, but then when I 504 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,980 Speaker 1: remind myself, how do I not have the time? If 505 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,020 Speaker 1: he is going to take care of absolutely everything else. 506 00:26:27,660 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 1: And if he is the one who meets my deepest 507 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: needs and, then I'm going to make this time. I 508 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,460 Speaker 1: know you're on the board of a ministry actually, who's Dr. 509 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,649 Speaker 1: Marcus Warner has been on here numerous times. And so 510 00:26:38,660 --> 00:26:40,189 Speaker 1: I know just from talking to you that you're on 511 00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:43,750 Speaker 1: the board of deeper walk international. One of the things 512 00:26:43,910 --> 00:26:46,689 Speaker 1: I find helpful is they had, I don't know how 513 00:26:46,750 --> 00:26:49,070 Speaker 1: long ago they put this out and I'll see if 514 00:26:49,109 --> 00:26:51,270 Speaker 1: I can find it again to share in the show notes, 515 00:26:51,330 --> 00:26:55,740 Speaker 1: but Emmanuel journaling and where they guide you into this 516 00:26:56,380 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: interactive journaling with God. But I want to tell you, Judy, like, 517 00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:02,750 Speaker 1: Just this morning, I was having this conversation with God. 518 00:27:02,770 --> 00:27:05,570 Speaker 1: I'm sitting there doing my manual journaling and I'm telling 519 00:27:05,609 --> 00:27:08,370 Speaker 1: him I'm frustrated because he hasn't been talking to me 520 00:27:08,580 --> 00:27:11,780 Speaker 1: in the past. It's been a while in my journaling time. 521 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:17,050 Speaker 1: And it's tempting... when I'm frustrated to just not show up, 522 00:27:17,090 --> 00:27:18,629 Speaker 1: like you're not going to talk to me anyway, God. 523 00:27:18,869 --> 00:27:22,090 Speaker 1: So I'm just going to skip this journaling time and 524 00:27:22,850 --> 00:27:26,389 Speaker 1: move on to cleaning my shower. But I know just 525 00:27:26,410 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: like with my husband, right? Like I'm not always going 526 00:27:28,540 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: to have this deep romantic moment with him every time 527 00:27:32,260 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: we connect, but that doesn't mean I quit going on 528 00:27:35,340 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: date nights. Right. 529 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:37,220 Speaker 2: Right. 530 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: Right. 531 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,820 Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's where I think his word comes into 532 00:27:40,859 --> 00:27:43,930 Speaker 2: play because I, It's an inspired word of God. I 533 00:27:43,970 --> 00:27:47,890 Speaker 2: have a friend who lost her three-year-old to complications from strep. 534 00:27:48,070 --> 00:27:48,369 Speaker 1: Wow. 535 00:27:48,390 --> 00:27:51,230 Speaker 2: She didn't know Jesus yet. She hadn't even been going 536 00:27:51,260 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 2: to church really. She did when she was a child. 537 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,460 Speaker 2: And her story is so beautiful. But she had someone 538 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,340 Speaker 2: who came alongside her after his death. He was only three. 539 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,890 Speaker 2: And she said, how about you and I get together 540 00:28:05,030 --> 00:28:07,729 Speaker 2: and we look at the book of John. And for 541 00:28:07,780 --> 00:28:10,939 Speaker 2: those who don't yet know Jesus as their Savior or 542 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,790 Speaker 2: just kind of figuring out this walk with Christ, I 543 00:28:13,850 --> 00:28:16,750 Speaker 2: think that is an incredible place to start the Gospel 544 00:28:16,770 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 2: of John because it's. when Jesus walked this groaning earth 545 00:28:20,900 --> 00:28:23,100 Speaker 2: and just to see the miracles, but just to see 546 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:27,070 Speaker 2: his heart for his disciples who were like brothers to him. 547 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,530 Speaker 2: And my friend Kim came to know Jesus as her 548 00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:33,430 Speaker 2: own savior because of just dwelling in the word. And 549 00:28:33,450 --> 00:28:36,330 Speaker 2: that's often how our God speaks to us through his 550 00:28:36,410 --> 00:28:39,300 Speaker 2: Holy Spirit as we are in the word. He has used, 551 00:28:39,650 --> 00:28:42,590 Speaker 2: like I said, that one phrase from that old hymn 552 00:28:42,650 --> 00:28:45,290 Speaker 2: that was taken from the story of Jesus being asleep 553 00:28:45,330 --> 00:28:48,050 Speaker 2: in the boat. And I remember I journaled, it sure 554 00:28:48,110 --> 00:28:50,210 Speaker 2: seems like you're asleep in the boat or could care 555 00:28:50,260 --> 00:28:54,460 Speaker 2: less what's happening. Where are you? Yeah. And it's really 556 00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 2: a part of the walk with Christ to be that 557 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 2: honest with him and just seek him and search for him. 558 00:29:00,660 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 2: And because he never leaves us or forsakes us, even 559 00:29:03,340 --> 00:29:05,459 Speaker 2: if it feels like he has, it's a promise. He 560 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 2: will not leave or forsake us. 561 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,510 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I'm also wondering, as you were talking, and 562 00:29:10,730 --> 00:29:12,990 Speaker 1: just some of the creative ways we can connect with God, 563 00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:15,890 Speaker 1: for those who, especially are new to the faith, or 564 00:29:15,930 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: really are struggling to sense his heart, maybe they could 565 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,300 Speaker 1: watch The Chosen, which I've heard a lot of people 566 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:27,260 Speaker 1: have said that's really helped them picture Jesus in a personal, 567 00:29:27,580 --> 00:29:30,790 Speaker 1: relational way. As we close, is there one thing you 568 00:29:30,830 --> 00:29:34,620 Speaker 1: would say to the person who... They're in that storm 569 00:29:34,650 --> 00:29:38,750 Speaker 1: you were in back when your daughter was really suffering. 570 00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:42,100 Speaker 1: And they're on there. knees, they're begging God, I want 571 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,860 Speaker 1: to hear from you. And they feel like whether he 572 00:29:45,180 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: is speaking or whether their world just feels too chaotic 573 00:29:48,260 --> 00:29:50,980 Speaker 1: for them to hear him. What would you say to 574 00:29:51,020 --> 00:29:51,860 Speaker 1: them right now? 575 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,950 Speaker 2: Well, something that changed my heart. and drew me closer 576 00:29:56,010 --> 00:29:59,150 Speaker 2: to Jesus was to really look at when he walked 577 00:29:59,170 --> 00:30:03,170 Speaker 2: this earth and how he got up from sleeping in 578 00:30:03,210 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 2: the boat and calm the storm. There's another scene where 579 00:30:05,930 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 2: Jesus is walking on the water in a terrific storm 580 00:30:09,540 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 2: going towards his disciples. At first they were terrified. They 581 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,260 Speaker 2: thought he was a ghost and he walked on water 582 00:30:15,420 --> 00:30:17,220 Speaker 2: and got in the boat with them. And then it 583 00:30:17,340 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 2: grew calm and I can promise you that our Lord 584 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:25,550 Speaker 2: Jesus walks the stormy waves of our stormy stories with 585 00:30:25,670 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 2: us and for us, even if we can't see him. 586 00:30:28,110 --> 00:30:29,710 Speaker 2: You know, I know for a while they were in 587 00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 2: that storm and they couldn't see Jesus. you know, Jesus walking. 588 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:33,340 Speaker 1: On the water. 589 00:30:33,380 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 2: And then they did and they were afraid. And yet 590 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,980 Speaker 2: he calmed the storm. And my older sister's been through 591 00:30:39,020 --> 00:30:41,100 Speaker 2: a lot in her life. And I remember once when 592 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,530 Speaker 2: I was telling her, I just don't think Jesus cares. 593 00:30:43,610 --> 00:30:45,350 Speaker 2: I don't know where he is in the storm of 594 00:30:45,410 --> 00:30:47,750 Speaker 2: my life. And she said, Judy, we'll never suffer as 595 00:30:47,830 --> 00:30:49,910 Speaker 2: much as our Lord Jesus did when he died on 596 00:30:49,950 --> 00:30:52,490 Speaker 2: the cross for us. But the night before the night 597 00:30:52,530 --> 00:30:54,690 Speaker 2: of his arrest, before he got arrested, he was in 598 00:30:54,730 --> 00:30:58,010 Speaker 2: the garden of Gethsemane, groaning out to his father, God, 599 00:30:58,030 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 2: to take the from him. His anguish was so deep 600 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 2: that he was sweating drops of blood. We don't even 601 00:31:04,820 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 2: fully understand that. And the death of his sorrow of 602 00:31:08,340 --> 00:31:10,300 Speaker 2: knowing he was going to die on the cross for 603 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,570 Speaker 2: us and take all the penalty of all our sin 604 00:31:12,730 --> 00:31:16,170 Speaker 2: on him. We'll never experience that. And he did that 605 00:31:16,330 --> 00:31:18,890 Speaker 2: for us. And I also think it's so important to 606 00:31:18,930 --> 00:31:21,810 Speaker 2: know that we're told in Romans 8 that Jesus prays 607 00:31:21,850 --> 00:31:24,450 Speaker 2: for us. He intercedes for us to God the Father. 608 00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:27,550 Speaker 2: And in that same passage in Romans 8, we're told 609 00:31:27,570 --> 00:31:31,850 Speaker 2: the Holy Spirit groans in prayer when we don't have 610 00:31:31,890 --> 00:31:34,330 Speaker 2: the words to pray. And that just should take our 611 00:31:34,370 --> 00:31:36,780 Speaker 2: breath away, that the triune God is so aware of 612 00:31:36,820 --> 00:31:39,740 Speaker 2: what you're going through and the storms you're in that 613 00:31:40,620 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 2: Jesus is interceding. The Holy Spirit is groaning in prayer. 614 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 2: And it's a mystery. I mean, it's God. Like, why 615 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 2: is God praying for us? But this earth is a 616 00:31:49,670 --> 00:31:52,830 Speaker 2: mess in many ways. We've got an enemy who wants 617 00:31:52,890 --> 00:31:55,670 Speaker 2: to harm us. And thankfully, our God protects us. But 618 00:31:55,730 --> 00:31:57,870 Speaker 2: we are in a battle. And we've got a God 619 00:31:57,930 --> 00:32:01,370 Speaker 2: who covers us from all sides and has promised never 620 00:32:01,410 --> 00:32:03,410 Speaker 2: to leave us or forsake us. So those are the 621 00:32:03,470 --> 00:32:06,420 Speaker 2: things I cling to when it seems like I can't 622 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 2: find them in the darkness or the storms or the anxiety. 623 00:32:09,900 --> 00:32:14,070 Speaker 1: Yeah, that just hit me deep when you said that he... groans. 624 00:32:14,350 --> 00:32:18,190 Speaker 1: He prays groaning. And it just, the intensity of emotion 625 00:32:18,410 --> 00:32:22,220 Speaker 1: that conveys to me is, I think I'm going to 626 00:32:22,260 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: sit on that for a while after this conversation, just 627 00:32:24,900 --> 00:32:27,020 Speaker 1: to really process through. And I'm going to invite listeners 628 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: actually go to Romans eight and pray through that, pay 629 00:32:30,940 --> 00:32:35,630 Speaker 1: special attention to the Holy Spirit's response to us when 630 00:32:35,670 --> 00:32:37,390 Speaker 1: we don't have the words. The other thing I like 631 00:32:37,410 --> 00:32:40,170 Speaker 1: about that passage too, is where it says, we'll not, 632 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,180 Speaker 1: Not the one who gave us his son also freely 633 00:32:43,220 --> 00:32:45,540 Speaker 1: give us all things. And that to me is a 634 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,340 Speaker 1: comfort when God isn't responding in the way I want. 635 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,220 Speaker 1: I know from that passage and from his history, it's 636 00:32:53,420 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: not because he doesn't care. It's not because he's callous. 637 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,370 Speaker 1: I don't always understand why, but... The proof of his 638 00:33:00,410 --> 00:33:02,450 Speaker 1: son is that it's not because he's callous. Well, this 639 00:33:02,490 --> 00:33:05,010 Speaker 1: has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much 640 00:33:05,050 --> 00:33:05,810 Speaker 1: for joining us. 641 00:33:06,090 --> 00:33:07,470 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Jennifer. 642 00:33:07,790 --> 00:33:10,010 Speaker 1: I do want to let listeners know if they missed 643 00:33:10,030 --> 00:33:12,150 Speaker 1: your previous episode. Actually, I got a link to that 644 00:33:12,210 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: because they want to catch your previous episode, but I 645 00:33:14,190 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: do want them to know more about your book. It's 646 00:33:15,940 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: called The Loudest Roar, Living in the Unshakable Victory of Christ. 647 00:33:20,220 --> 00:33:22,380 Speaker 1: Let me read a little about it. Do you struggle 648 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: with recurring fears, temptations, doubts, or lies that leave you 649 00:33:26,300 --> 00:33:30,550 Speaker 1: feeling defeated in the loudest war author judy dunagan reveals 650 00:33:30,790 --> 00:33:35,810 Speaker 1: how to stand in the victory jesus has already won 651 00:33:35,910 --> 00:33:40,230 Speaker 1: for you through biblical truth and practical application you'll learn 652 00:33:40,270 --> 00:33:43,670 Speaker 1: this is so good judy you'll learn to recognize god's 653 00:33:43,710 --> 00:33:48,270 Speaker 1: voice above the enemy's lies overcome fear take your thoughts 654 00:33:48,330 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 1: captive break cycles of sin and find strength in god's 655 00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:56,940 Speaker 1: armor Discover How Christ's Powerful Roar Can Reduce the Enemy's 656 00:33:56,980 --> 00:34:00,220 Speaker 1: Lies to a Whisper. We will link to that book 657 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,100 Speaker 1: in the show notes, but we'll also link to that 658 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,180 Speaker 1: episode because you and I had a really rich conversation 659 00:34:05,350 --> 00:34:09,470 Speaker 1: as well about that. And that's everything we're talking about today. 660 00:34:09,590 --> 00:34:13,129 Speaker 1: The one who is with us when we are overwhelmed. 661 00:34:13,530 --> 00:34:16,250 Speaker 1: And so to our listeners, I hope this encouraged you 662 00:34:16,370 --> 00:34:21,069 Speaker 1: just to keep showing love And as you do, it's 663 00:34:21,150 --> 00:34:24,009 Speaker 1: okay to acknowledge the heart. It's okay to acknowledge the fear. 664 00:34:24,030 --> 00:34:27,320 Speaker 1: It's okay to acknowledge the frustration. But may you do 665 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:32,779 Speaker 1: so with the truth of God's word, his character, his promises. 666 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,219 Speaker 1: And if you haven't already done so, I encourage you 667 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,860 Speaker 1: to subscribe to this podcast. Then you won't miss a 668 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,649 Speaker 1: single episode. Share it with your family and your friends. 669 00:34:40,810 --> 00:34:43,390 Speaker 1: And until next time, may you live as one who 670 00:34:43,590 --> 00:34:45,390 Speaker 1: truly has been set free.